WEBVTT - Short Stuff: The Death of Billy the Kid

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh and there's

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<v Speaker 1>Chuck and we're Chucked and this is short stuff, so

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<v Speaker 1>let's go. So we're talking today about the death of

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<v Speaker 1>Billy the Kid, which I thought I learned from a

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<v Speaker 1>Billy Joel song called the Ballad of Billy the Kid.

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<v Speaker 1>It seems like an appropriate place to learn it. Great song.

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<v Speaker 1>But it turns out that Billy Joel stopped at the

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<v Speaker 1>what was to be the hanging of Billy the Kid,

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<v Speaker 1>and growing up, I thought that's how his story ended. Boy,

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<v Speaker 1>you are misinformed, buddy. Yeah, I mean the song literally

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<v Speaker 1>stops with the townfolk in their kin like the c

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<v Speaker 1>came rolling in to watch the hanging of Billy the

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<v Speaker 1>Kid and there's one more course and that's it. You

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<v Speaker 1>know Now that makes me question if whether we really

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<v Speaker 1>did start the fire. Hey, did you see that video

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<v Speaker 1>of him playing the piano on the street the other day?

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<v Speaker 1>And uh wherever he's from Island. I did see a

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<v Speaker 1>tweet that mentioned it in um link that I surmised

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<v Speaker 1>from the headline what had happened. So yeah, basically it

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<v Speaker 1>was pretty neat. Someone was throwing out of piano and

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<v Speaker 1>Billy Joel goes over there and he's playing it, and

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<v Speaker 1>he's like, hey, it's a good piano. It's out of tune,

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<v Speaker 1>but he's got good actions. The petals work. You said,

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<v Speaker 1>somebody should donate this thing. It sounds like he's like

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<v Speaker 1>Rodney Dangerfield. Now, well at least not too far off.

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<v Speaker 1>So um No, it turns out that Billy the Kid.

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<v Speaker 1>Everything I know about Billy the Kid I learned from

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<v Speaker 1>Young Guns and Billy the Kid didn't die at all.

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<v Speaker 1>He went on to live to about a hundreds something

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<v Speaker 1>years old in New Mexico. Um, because he escaped and

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<v Speaker 1>his death was faked. That's right. It was was that

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<v Speaker 1>Emilia was he Billy? Yes? Yes? Yeah? And uh man,

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<v Speaker 1>that was a great movie to me. Billy the Kid

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<v Speaker 1>is Chris Christofferson from the Great Great Sam Pecumpalm movie

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<v Speaker 1>Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid. I never saw that one. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>there's two versions, and see if you can watch the

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<v Speaker 1>director's cut, because the other ones a mess. Oh is

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<v Speaker 1>that right? It's like a Hurricanes episode. Yeah, And funny

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<v Speaker 1>enough you mentioned Hurricane. Bob Dylan is in that movie

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<v Speaker 1>and does the soundtrack and score. Who does he play

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<v Speaker 1>in the movie? Let me guess the Undertaker. No, something

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<v Speaker 1>like that. I think he's just like a stranger in

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<v Speaker 1>town that does a couple of things. It's not a

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<v Speaker 1>big part Sam Peck. And Paul was a Bob Dylan fan. Sure,

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<v Speaker 1>he did tons of drugs and was an alcoholic, sure,

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<v Speaker 1>but Bob Dylan fan. Yeah. Man, huh. Alright, So can

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<v Speaker 1>we get going on this? This is a short stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>We wasted three and a half minutes. Well, we'll just

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<v Speaker 1>say this, Billy the Kid died. That's that. That's right.

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<v Speaker 1>I think we should kind of reverse this a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit and talk a little bit about Billy the Kid first. Yeah, agreed.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you know he was a born New Yorker? I

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<v Speaker 1>did because I'm kind of into these old West dudes,

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<v Speaker 1>and I've researched some of them to certain degrees. And

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<v Speaker 1>he was born William Henry McCarty Jr. Uh. And if

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<v Speaker 1>you've heard the name William Bonnie, that was a name

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<v Speaker 1>he went by a lot. I think you've heard William

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<v Speaker 1>Bonnie a lot more, probably than McCarty. Yeah, for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>I actually had never heard Henry McCarty until today. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And he was orphaned at fourteen and became one of

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<v Speaker 1>the Lincoln County regulators. Yeah, and so regulators will sound

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<v Speaker 1>familiar if one you are a Young Guns fan or

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<v Speaker 1>if you're a Nate Dog and Warren g fan. Either way,

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<v Speaker 1>the regulators were kind of a group of hired hands

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<v Speaker 1>for a guy and hired guns, I believe too young ones,

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<v Speaker 1>um for a guy named Tunstall, I believe down in

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<v Speaker 1>Lincoln County, New Mexico. And Um, toun Stall was killed

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<v Speaker 1>from what I understand, fairly unfairly um, and that kind

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<v Speaker 1>of set Billy the Kid and his his posse of

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<v Speaker 1>regulators off on a bit of a killing spree. Started

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<v Speaker 1>what's known as the Lincoln County War. That's right. And uh,

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<v Speaker 1>during one of those skirmishes there was some murders that happened.

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<v Speaker 1>And Pat Garrett, who was a sheriff in New Mexico

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<v Speaker 1>played by James Coburn in the Bob Dylan movie played

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<v Speaker 1>by Bob Dylan and Young Guns, Uh he was. I

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<v Speaker 1>haven't seen Young Guns a long time. That was a

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<v Speaker 1>big college movie for us. I need to see that again.

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<v Speaker 1>It was like it didn't come out when you were

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<v Speaker 1>in college. Sure, No, yeah, I don't think so. Look

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<v Speaker 1>it up and I'll keep going all right live corrections.

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<v Speaker 1>So Pat Garrett formed a posse. UH captured Billy and

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<v Speaker 1>that part of the Billy Joel song checks out, and

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<v Speaker 1>he was sentenced to hang. They captured him at Stinking Springs,

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<v Speaker 1>New Mexico, and while he was awaiting his execution, he

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<v Speaker 1>was kept in a it wasn't even a prison, it

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<v Speaker 1>was a room, a locked room at the Lincoln County Courthouse. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>I found this article says too, I heard, I saw

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<v Speaker 1>there were five other prisoners. Um. Regardless, there were other

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<v Speaker 1>prisoners being guarded by some armed men. Uh. One of

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<v Speaker 1>them was an enemy of Billy's named Bob Ollinger. And

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<v Speaker 1>at one point he took all the rest of the

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<v Speaker 1>guys over to a hotel across the street to eat,

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<v Speaker 1>left Billy there under the charge of Deputy James bell Man.

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<v Speaker 1>These are some great old timey Old West names, aren't they. Oh? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>when was Young Guns out? So if you if you

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<v Speaker 1>were in college at age seventeen, then I'm impressed. I

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<v Speaker 1>said it was a big movie in college. I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>say it came out in college. I asked you, than

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<v Speaker 1>came out in college? And you said, oh yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>thought you mean, was it out in college? As if

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<v Speaker 1>it came out after that thought that that's what I meant. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>it came out in high school, but we watched the

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<v Speaker 1>heck out of it in college. I should have that,

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<v Speaker 1>should have said. So James Bell is watching Billy. Billy says, uh, hey, gout,

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<v Speaker 1>he's a bathroom. Can you take me out to the outhouse?

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<v Speaker 1>He said, I really gotta go. He shackled, his arms

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<v Speaker 1>and legs are shackled. Take him out use the bathroom.

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<v Speaker 1>On the way back end, they're going up the steps.

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<v Speaker 1>Billy's in front, and the account I read was that

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<v Speaker 1>he ducked around a blind corner, got his hands out,

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<v Speaker 1>and then smashed this guy in the head with his

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<v Speaker 1>arm irons. The guy went, what Billy pulled his gun

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<v Speaker 1>from his holster. The other guys holter, Yeah, of course

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<v Speaker 1>Billy didn't have a gun on him. Why would they

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<v Speaker 1>do that. He's like, why didn't I think they're using

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<v Speaker 1>that first? They're like, well, he's in handcuffs, just go

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<v Speaker 1>ahead and keep his gun on him. And so he

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<v Speaker 1>pulls the guy's gun on him, and the guy tries

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<v Speaker 1>to run and Billy shoots him dead in the back.

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<v Speaker 1>And so now roughly we reached the end of the

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<v Speaker 1>Billy Joel song, which I think is a good time

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<v Speaker 1>for an ad break. What do you think, Sure, we'll

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<v Speaker 1>be right back. M alright, Chuck, We're back. And um,

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<v Speaker 1>Billy the kid has just shot the deputy that's in

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<v Speaker 1>charge of watching him. Another deputy runs back, uh or

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<v Speaker 1>runs back from the hotel and okay, Olinger, um apparently

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<v Speaker 1>is he's running and he hears his name and looks up,

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<v Speaker 1>and Billy the kids got Olinger's own rifle on him

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<v Speaker 1>and shoots him dead like a dog in the street.

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<v Speaker 1>So Billy the kids killed two people. Now he's out

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<v Speaker 1>of his shackles and he grabs a horse and high

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<v Speaker 1>tails it out of town for a life on the

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<v Speaker 1>run that would last about four more months. Yeah, that's

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<v Speaker 1>um the only dispute I have with that accoun on us.

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<v Speaker 1>It supposedly took him about an hour to get out

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<v Speaker 1>of his leg shackles with an axe, and I guess

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<v Speaker 1>no one just came up there. When Olinger came to

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<v Speaker 1>find him, Billy actually yelled down, look up, old boy,

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<v Speaker 1>and see what you get. Wow, And that's the last

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<v Speaker 1>words that he heard. So Billy's on the run at

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<v Speaker 1>this point uh, And obviously Pat Garrett has be in

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<v Speaker 1>his bonnet to go get him again. Well, sure, he's

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<v Speaker 1>the Sheriff of Lincoln County and Billy the kid, who's

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<v Speaker 1>become one of the most notorious bandits in the country

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<v Speaker 1>has just escaped out from under his watch. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a reward. Well, sure there's a reward too. So

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<v Speaker 1>Pat Garrett had this um history of lying in wait,

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<v Speaker 1>in ambushing people and shooting them, whether they were ready

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<v Speaker 1>to shoot back or not, killing them very frequently. He'd

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<v Speaker 1>done it before, and um, he wanted to do it again.

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<v Speaker 1>He went to go look for Billy a kid. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>Like we said, he he made his way as an outlaw,

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<v Speaker 1>like a double outlaw by this point, um on the

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<v Speaker 1>lamb for good four months before he was caught up

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<v Speaker 1>with I think still in New Mexico in um July

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<v Speaker 1>of eight one, and he apparently was staying at the

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<v Speaker 1>house or nearby the house of a friend named Peter Maxwell.

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<v Speaker 1>And Peter Maxwell had a younger sister that Billy the

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<v Speaker 1>Kid was sweet on, and Peter Maxwell didn't like that

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<v Speaker 1>Billy the Kid was sweet on her. And by sweet

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<v Speaker 1>on her, I mean that they were having extramarital sexual relations,

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<v Speaker 1>and Peter didn't like that because he was planning on

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<v Speaker 1>marrying off his his sister to a rich Land baron nearby,

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<v Speaker 1>and Billy the Kid was kind of toying with that possibility.

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<v Speaker 1>Um so Peter Maxwell is in this kind of mindset

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<v Speaker 1>allegedly when Pat Garrett shows up. That's right, Garrett shows up.

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<v Speaker 1>This isn't well, he doesn't show up at night, but

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<v Speaker 1>eventually night falls, and uh, well, actually maybe he did

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<v Speaker 1>show up because supposedly he he found him asleep. Uh

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<v Speaker 1>Pete Maxwell, that is, And Garrett very presumptuously goes into

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<v Speaker 1>his room and sits down next to him and says, Pete,

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<v Speaker 1>wake up, wake up. And then he wakes up, and

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<v Speaker 1>he says, where's that Billy the Kid? And as the

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<v Speaker 1>story goes, and we're gonna poke holes at it in

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<v Speaker 1>a second, right, then Billy the Kid actually walks into

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<v Speaker 1>that room, that dog gone room, and has a gun

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<v Speaker 1>and a knife because he had just went to cut

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<v Speaker 1>some meat off. He was hungry, I guess after some

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<v Speaker 1>he had post coital hunger pains and carves some meat

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<v Speaker 1>off and was from a yearling supposedly and had just

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<v Speaker 1>eaten a little bit, and so he has a knife

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<v Speaker 1>and a gun and can't really see him the dark

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<v Speaker 1>and starts going Keyennis Keiennis Spanish for who is it?

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<v Speaker 1>Who's there? And Maxwell or I'm sorry. Pat Garrett supposedly

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<v Speaker 1>recognizes the voice as Billy in the dark and shoots

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<v Speaker 1>him dead. Yeah, and I just want to make sure

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<v Speaker 1>we're all on the same page. Heart Yearling is a

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<v Speaker 1>young horse. He was after some horse meat to eat.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. So this was the death as far as

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<v Speaker 1>Pat Garrett said of Billy the Kid. But like we

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<v Speaker 1>said before, Pat Garrett already kind of had developed a

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<v Speaker 1>reputation of ambushing people, of lying in wait, catching him

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<v Speaker 1>off guard when they least expected it, And even in

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<v Speaker 1>this story that he told this this is the official

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<v Speaker 1>line that Pat Garrett told in the biography he wrote

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<v Speaker 1>about Billy the Kid, Um, that that was how he died.

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<v Speaker 1>But even that, which is kind of on the edges

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<v Speaker 1>of fair um is disputed, is probably untrue, and that

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<v Speaker 1>the truth is probably involves even more of an ambush

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<v Speaker 1>and more surprise, and even less of Billy the Kid

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<v Speaker 1>being able to defend himself than that. Yeah, I think

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<v Speaker 1>the other version is that he was actually ambushed and

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<v Speaker 1>set up by Maxwell because he didn't like him being

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<v Speaker 1>with Paulita, his little sister, and basically said, hey man,

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<v Speaker 1>it's uh, it's all going down here, and here's your

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<v Speaker 1>here's your chance to come over to Fort Sumner and

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<v Speaker 1>take care of this kid once and for all. And

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<v Speaker 1>so he did so, and a lot of people say

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<v Speaker 1>that's how it really went down. And then and then

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<v Speaker 1>he tipped off pat Garrett, right, yeah, and that he

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<v Speaker 1>in fact even changed his age. Who was he was

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<v Speaker 1>supposedly like eighteen or nineteen when he was shot dead

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<v Speaker 1>and said no, no, no no, he was really twenty one.

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<v Speaker 1>So I didn't have this extra judicial killing him some kid.

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<v Speaker 1>He was a full grown man and it was just

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<v Speaker 1>happenstance that he happened to walk in the room where

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<v Speaker 1>I was sitting there with a loaded gun. Yeah, And

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<v Speaker 1>the other people historians think, like, probably Billy the kid

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<v Speaker 1>didn't walk in with a gun and a knife looking

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<v Speaker 1>for some yearling meat. He probably walked in fully unarmed,

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<v Speaker 1>expecting Pete Maxwell's sister to be waiting for him there,

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<v Speaker 1>and instead pet Garrett and his gun was waiting for

0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:11.880
<v Speaker 1>him there. So he probably was fully ambushed and killed murdered.

0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:13.400
<v Speaker 1>I guess it's the other way to put it in

0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.640
<v Speaker 1>that that's probably how Billy the Kid died. Either way,

0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.560
<v Speaker 1>he died at the other end of Pat Garrett's gun.

0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.720
<v Speaker 1>That much we know about, right, even though there are

0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:26.360
<v Speaker 1>were and have been rumors over the years that uh,

0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:29.280
<v Speaker 1>he was in cahoots with Pat Garrett and he let

0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:31.680
<v Speaker 1>him escape, and that he lived to be a ripe

0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:35.680
<v Speaker 1>old age. There have been exhumations, they've been DNA tists

0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.520
<v Speaker 1>over the years. Obviously, nothing has ever come back with

0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:42.800
<v Speaker 1>any sort of conclusion. Uh, Young guns seem to be

0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:46.400
<v Speaker 1>pretty concluding. I got a little cherry on top two

0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:49.040
<v Speaker 1>if you're interested, let's hear it. You know that very

0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:52.320
<v Speaker 1>famous picture of Billy the Kid, sort of one of two,

0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:54.760
<v Speaker 1>although the second one they aren't quite sure at him.

0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:58.319
<v Speaker 1>But there's that one, very very famous perotype, which is

0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:02.200
<v Speaker 1>a picture on like a metal plate. Um that photo,

0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:06.640
<v Speaker 1>that farotype, the original plate was bought for uh two

0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.959
<v Speaker 1>point three million dollars by none other than William Coke,

0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.640
<v Speaker 1>who's that the Koke brothers. Oh, yeah, I forgot. He's

0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:19.160
<v Speaker 1>super into like Old West stuff apparently, Yeah, I forgot

0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:23.160
<v Speaker 1>about that. Well, that's pretty interesting, quite a quite a

0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.600
<v Speaker 1>quite quite a cherry on top. I'm glad a millionaire

0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:30.400
<v Speaker 1>gets what he wants in the end. As for Garrett Uh,

0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:34.400
<v Speaker 1>he was originally denied the five hundred dollar reward. A

0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:37.520
<v Speaker 1>bunch of the city's felt bad for him and raised

0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:41.720
<v Speaker 1>seven thousand dollars, and then a year later there was

0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:45.240
<v Speaker 1>I think an injunction or a vote or something where

0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.920
<v Speaker 1>he actually finally got the reward. So in today's dollars, supposedly,

0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.600
<v Speaker 1>if that all checks out, he got about two hundred

0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:56.200
<v Speaker 1>and something thousand dollars for killing Billy the kids. He's

0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:59.560
<v Speaker 1>like that barista from Starbucks who refused service to that

0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:03.280
<v Speaker 1>woman You wouldn't wear a mask. Now they're rich, right Dan,

0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:07.280
<v Speaker 1>I don't serve anyone coffee without a mask. There you gifts,

0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:11.080
<v Speaker 1>We'll start to go fund me for Chuck everybody. Um, well,

0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.760
<v Speaker 1>that's it for short stuff, right, Chuck. That's right? Get

0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:19.040
<v Speaker 1>up Stuff You should know is a production of iHeart

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