1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, A production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Frye. We talked about sayd Alhua this week. 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: We sure did. Yeah, So this was kind of a 5 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: long delayed Morocco episode. I think most of the trips 6 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: we've gone on for the podcast, I've come home with 7 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: a lot of ideas for things to talk about. And 8 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: the thing that I ran into when we went to 9 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: Morocco was I came home and had ideas for things 10 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: that it turned out we had already covered on the show, 11 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: not even in the long past, like episodes that you 12 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: and I had done together, Holly, there would be we 13 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,639 Speaker 1: would hear the tour guide mention a historical figure who 14 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: sounded really cool, and I would think, Okay, that rings 15 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: the bell a little bit, though, because I we both 16 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: jettison things from our memory. Because second, I closed my 17 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: computer at the end of the day. Sometimes there's not 18 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:08,919 Speaker 1: enough room for all of the things that were learning 19 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: for the show all the time. No, and so I 20 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: had noted several people and came home and was like, Tracy, 21 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: you researched and wrote a whole episode about that person, 22 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: like five years ago. Listen, you can only defrag so 23 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: many times, be where your brain just stops, it runs out, 24 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 1: it runs out. And I think when I had done 25 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: the episode that was about the Lisbon earthquake, that was 26 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: sort of the closest thing to a post Morocco episode, 27 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 1: and it wasn't really about Morocco. Somebody had emailed and 28 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: said maybe you could do one on site Alhura, and 29 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 1: at that moment I thought, I don't think there's enough information. 30 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: And it was only some months later that I looked 31 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: and realized there was newly published work within the last 32 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: couple of years that was not around back in twenty sixteen, 33 00:01:55,520 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: and also just some more background things that we have 34 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: not talked about that much on the show. I, however, 35 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: am really kicking myself for having not done this before 36 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: we went to Morocco, because I would have gone to 37 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: the Kasbo Museum in Chef showIn. Yeah, we did have 38 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: some time to walk around in Chef Schowen. Yeah, we 39 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: had some walking around time. So first, Chef Schowen is beautiful, 40 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: oh breathtaking. Everywhere we stayed in Morocco was beautiful. Chef 41 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: Chowen was particularly beautiful. Yeah, we had an amazing hotel 42 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: that was outside of the wall of the Medina, but 43 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: like way up at the top of the hill that 44 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: overlooked everything, so you could just see the view of 45 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: the city and all the beautiful blue coloring everywhere. You 46 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: could hear the call to prayer from multiple mosques at 47 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: the same time, which was very striking as somebody who 48 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: has never lived in a predominantly Muslim area. There are 49 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:05,519 Speaker 1: also so many stairs. We were unprepared for the number 50 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: of stairs. So we had gone on a walking tour 51 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: of the Medina, and on that walking tour, Patrick saw 52 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: a piece of art that captivated him, and when we 53 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: were done with the walking tour, his primary purpose was 54 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: to find that piece of art again so he could 55 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: buy it. Yeah. First though, a man told Patrick that 56 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: he had the best rugs in Morocco and he could 57 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: show us where the rugs were made, and Patrick wanted 58 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: to do that. I was not comfortable with this plan 59 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: because I had a feeling that we were about to 60 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: try to be sold some rugs and we did not 61 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: have a need for a rug and so that is 62 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: what happened. We did have a nice conversation with that 63 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: person and then left without buying any rugs, and then 64 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: walked all around trying to find this gallery where Patrick 65 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: had seen this art just walking past, and we did 66 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: find it. Patrick did purchase it, but by that point 67 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: we were very ready to return to the hotel and 68 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: just chill out, yeah, for a little bit, because we 69 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: had been walking and climbing up and downstairs a whole lot, 70 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: and so I never made it to the museum there 71 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 1: at the Kasbah. But it was beautiful. The whole trip 72 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: was beautiful. Yeah, had a really great time. Mentioned in 73 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: the episode that Seuta has been in international news. Basically 74 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: the news broke the moment that I finished this outline. 75 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: I feel like that's how it always works. In case 76 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 1: you have not heard about this, what happened is that 77 00:04:54,760 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: tens of thousands of migrants crossed from Morocco into the 78 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: number of people died trying to make this crossing, and 79 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: it is unclear what precisely caused that number of people 80 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: to try to do this all at the same time 81 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: as of this moment when we were recording. Yeah, there 82 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: have been a lot of claims about what it is, Yeah, 83 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,679 Speaker 1: what the impetus was, but we don't have certainty, yeah, 84 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: claims and speculation. Yeah. And then also video that I 85 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: feel like has been circulated in the United States to 86 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:37,919 Speaker 1: try to stoke fears of a migrant invasion. Uh huh, 87 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: because that's the time that we're living in. And so 88 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: it was a little startling to have the name of 89 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: a place that I found difficult to keep into my 90 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: mind because the syllables are not in the order that 91 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: my English speaking mouth wants them to go in. So 92 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: almost every time it appeared in the outline, I had 93 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: a little phonetic pretty nunciation there, so I would remember. 94 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden afterward it was on 95 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: the news and I was seeing all these clips in 96 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: which people were saying it all of the time. Yeah. 97 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: So all of that will be two weeks and some 98 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: in the past by the time this episode comes out, 99 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: and who knows what the situation will be or what 100 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: other conclusions might have been drawn about it by then. Yeah. Mysteries. Yeah, ice, 101 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: what did I say? Oh, weddings that are not normal? Oh? Yeah, 102 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: So I had an unconventional wedding, big sprice. I got 103 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: married in an art house movie theater in a red dress, 104 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:40,799 Speaker 1: and my dad dressed to Santa to give me away. 105 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: It was very silly. I'm a big fan of absurdity, 106 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: but we had. At the time, I was working in 107 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 1: a university library and one of our assistants was an 108 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: exchange student from France, and he very earnestly came up 109 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: to me at the reception and said, I cannot wait 110 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 1: to tell my parents what weddings are like in the US. 111 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: And I was like, funny, let me stop you there. Yeah, yeah, 112 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: my darling, I'm a weirdo. It was very, very funny. 113 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: Bless him. I was like, no, they're usually not quite 114 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: like this, but that made me laugh and laugh. The 115 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: other thing, did I ever tell you the pronunciation of 116 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: chef showIn breaks my brain? Yeah? Because I want to 117 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: French it up. Oh sure, I wanted to be Chef Schwen. 118 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: It's not that's all I just but man, what a 119 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: beautiful city. I also did have a funny chef showIn, 120 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: as you said, is a city of stairs. I am 121 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: a short person. Those stairs are not you know, standard rise. 122 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: No there getting from where we got. As we went 123 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: on our walking tour, we kept going lower and lower 124 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: into the Medina, and I was like, uh oh, yeah, 125 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: oh spaghetti. Ohs, this is going to be bad. And 126 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: going back up was so I felt like I was 127 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: climbing a mountain. It was hilarious at one point because 128 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: it is there are some conservative clutches within that community, right. 129 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: And my beloved was with me, and he was on 130 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: the stair above me and had reached a hand up 131 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: and was helping me get up, and a woman, a 132 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: very elderly, very sweet I'm presuming woman, came running out 133 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: of her house to say we should not be touching 134 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: each other. And I just wanted to be like my darling. 135 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: The other option is that I live with you now, 136 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: like there was such a language barrier we cannot and 137 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: she would not have found that funny. Yeah, but it 138 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: was hilarious. I'm a tall person and I also found 139 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: the stairs very challenging. And I think I told the 140 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: story of we were walking. This was after we had 141 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: gone back down to the bottom of the Medina to 142 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: have dinner. Yeah, and we were returning to the hotel afterward, 143 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: which some people did in taxis. I did it in 144 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: a tax The taxi has to go around the edge 145 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: of the Medina, cannot drive through those streets. Was the 146 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: farthest drive. I did not anticipate the length of that drive. Yeah. 147 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: So Patrick and I and a couple of other people 148 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 1: were walking back up and I was I was finding 149 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: it challenging. And I arrived at a little landing and 150 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: there was a person who was feeding a group of cats. 151 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: There are a lot of cats, free roaming cats in 152 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: chef Shalling, and so this person, who I could not 153 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: see they were. They were inside the open door to 154 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: what was presumably their home, was feeding these cats. And 155 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: I stopped, and the and Patrick and the folks ahead 156 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: of me were like, are you okay. I said, yes, 157 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: I just have to take a picture of these cats, 158 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: which I was using both to take a picture of 159 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 1: cats and to have a minute to catch my breath. 160 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: And this person, who I could not see from within 161 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: the house said to the cats, you have to smile, 162 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 1: which I really loved. Yeah. Yeah, when we say some 163 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: of those stairs are steep, listen, I'm five to three 164 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 1: on my very best day with perfect posture, I'm really 165 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: five to two, but I like to, you know, steal an inch. 166 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: There were steps where I had to bend my leg 167 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: and my to get to the next step. My knee 168 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: was above my waistline. Yeah. It was arduous, worth it, 169 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: worth every bit of it, Yeah, because it is such 170 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: a spectacular and unique place. But it was very funny. 171 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: I was just like, whoof Yeah, no wonder everybody here 172 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: is incredibly fit because they are literally doing the mountain 173 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: goat dance every day. Yeah. I the my house, the 174 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: floor that the bedroom and my office are on is 175 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 1: upstairs from where the kitchen is and the front door, 176 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:52,839 Speaker 1: and so I do a lot of up and down 177 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: the steps. Yeah. And then we also have an attic 178 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: that's that the a prior owner finished, and the stairs 179 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: into the attic are very steep. I do that sometimes. 180 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: That did not prepare me the all day long up 181 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,079 Speaker 1: and downstairs at home did not prepare me at all 182 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: for the Steps of Chef Chowan, which is again so beautiful, 183 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: glove love so yeah. Kicking myself for not having started 184 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: it would have been amazing to have started this episode 185 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: before leaving for Morocco and then finished it afterward, because 186 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: I would have gone on a little fact finding mission 187 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: while we were in chef show. Yeah. Yeah, I've had 188 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: a few that have been on my list since Morocco, 189 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: and one of the things that I have run into 190 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: because I was taking notes as we went, Like when 191 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:38,839 Speaker 1: I would talk to tour guides, I would take a 192 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: lot of notes as we went. But sometimes they the 193 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: history information they gave me doesn't always match up with 194 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: sources that I have found sure, and it's hard to 195 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: know because that's a local you know what I mean, 196 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: Like they know things that other people might not. So 197 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: it's hard to figure out which is the more I 198 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: don't want to say valid, because that's not right, but 199 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: which which source is the more accurate and which way 200 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: to lean in? And I just every time I try it, 201 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: I end up getting wanted up and I'm like, I'm 202 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: not gonna touch anymore. So we'll see, we'll see, we'll see, 203 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: we'll see. We talked about Adam Wisoup and the Illuminati 204 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: this week, which make me laugh, probably more than Adam 205 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 1: Wisoup would ever want to be laughed at. But yeah, 206 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 1: maybe you're a mess, is what I would like to say. 207 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: How do you get it together? Write a list? It's 208 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: gonna be okay, Yeah, I it's it's not what I 209 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: expected when you told me what you were working on. 210 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,199 Speaker 1: What did you expect? I don't know what I's I 211 00:12:55,240 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: didn't expect it to basically be an academically oriented at 212 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: least in theory at the beginning, we're going to encourage learning, like, 213 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: that's not You're expecting mysticism and ritual which I think 214 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: a lot of people would. I expected some Alistair Crowley stuff. Yeah, 215 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: and it was not that in any way. No. I mean, 216 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 1: in fact, like the more sort of Alistair Crowley esque 217 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: things that he read about in the Freemason Rituals, he 218 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: was like, ugh, I aah, which cracked me up a 219 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 1: little bit. I feel like the most Alister Crowley part 220 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:40,959 Speaker 1: of the episode is that, you know, photocopied, mimeographed, however 221 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: they did it, thing that was written in the sixties. 222 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: That's the most Alister Crowley of everything. Yeah, I mean 223 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: I do love the idea. I don't love the idea 224 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: because I think a lot of people have glommed onto 225 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 1: things that are fundamentally limiting them and learning actual stuff. 226 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: But I do love the idea that the real heart 227 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: of this whole conspiracy is a couple of like, you know, 228 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: fringe counterculture jokesters from the sixties, like a couple of hippies. 229 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: Let's shake up the word. Yeah, we'll introduce such cockamami 230 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: things that no one will believe them. Yeah, but they 231 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: will start to question things because this was published material. Yeah. 232 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: I used to find conspiracy theories a lot more fun 233 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: than I do now. Yeah. I mean I understand the 234 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: appeal of them for sure, And there there is a 235 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: way in which I do totally get when the world 236 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: is on fire, when things are unjust and unfair, it 237 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: is soothing in a way to be like, you know 238 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: why m hm. Because forces are working against us, and 239 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: there are forces working against us. I do believe there 240 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: are things we don't know about operations of government and military, 241 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: but I don't think it's as organized as peopleeople want 242 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: to believe. No, And it's there are so many things 243 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: that are fringe beliefs and conspiracy theories that have taken 244 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: over mainstream discourse about things in a way that is 245 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: really harmful and counterproductive. And that is that's really why 246 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: I like, I never found the ones that seriously affected 247 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: people's lives to be fun. No, but it's sort of 248 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: made all of them seem less fun. Yeah. I think 249 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons I kind of wanted to 250 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: do this one. Like, as I think about how many 251 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: instances I have encountered throughout my life, but there's been 252 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: a higher concentration in recent years people who kind of 253 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: want almost want to buy into these sorts of ideas. 254 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: I just want to be like, Yo, humans can't do that. 255 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: They just can't. They can They cannot tell me. I 256 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: mean every secret grew there has ever been has been 257 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: exposed because people go, I don't like you anymore. I'm 258 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: leaving and I'm telling your secrets. It just is the 259 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: way of you know, the human animal that that yeah, 260 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: it leaks. There's that great right if you for my 261 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: and or watchers in the crowd, which I hope means everyone. 262 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: You know Neme's manifesto about like the littleness of power 263 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: and how ideas like this, yeah can't galvanize, it get leaky. 264 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: It's it's inherent in the structure of anything that's trying 265 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: to like get one up on somebody else. There will 266 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: always be a gap. This is not about our podcast, 267 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: but does the full text of that manifesto exist or 268 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: just the portions of it that appear in the show. 269 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: I have only seen, and I've seen a lot of 270 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: people write out the text of what appears in the show. 271 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: Some of it pieced together, right, because we get different 272 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: pieces of it at different times. But I haven't ever 273 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: seen anybody put together like a full manifesto. I was 274 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 1: just curious. Yeah, to the best of my knowledge, there 275 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: isn't one for folks who have not watched and or 276 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: there's a manifesto that I find parts of it that 277 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: are read on the show very moving. I'm obsessed with 278 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: that show as everyone. It's very nice, it's very good. 279 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: It's transcendent for me. It's just like it feels like 280 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: a gift, like the universe went. Like Tony Gilroy was like, 281 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: you know, you know who needs a gift, Holly just 282 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: gonna make her one, but really no, Yeah, but what 283 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: a gem. Oh my goodness, what a spectacular, spectacular very 284 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: If you want escape but also to be able to 285 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: process things that we are living through, it's great. But 286 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: if you are not ready for your entertainment and escape 287 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: to include processing things that we are living through, right, 288 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: it's a lot. And that is why I didn't watch 289 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: the second season for a while, because I was like, 290 00:17:57,920 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: I don't think this is I don't think I'm in 291 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: the headspace for this at this moment. And then I 292 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: did watch it eventually and it was great. I was 293 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: correct and not watching it earlier than that. It's very 294 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: very heavy. Have I ever told you this. It is 295 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,959 Speaker 1: not meant to sound braggy. It is honestly to me hilarious. So, 296 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: because I also have a Star Wars podcast, I will 297 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 1: get promo materials for stuff, and sometimes I will get 298 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: to watch shows in advance, because, especially in the instance 299 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 1: of and Or season two heading into Celebration, which is 300 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: the big Star Wars convention in Japan last year, there 301 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: was going to be a lot of and Or promotion 302 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: and they gave you know, podcasters and journalists the entire 303 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: season before we got there. The show had not started yet. 304 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: And one of the hardest and proudest achievements of my 305 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: life is that while people were like talking about their 306 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 1: wild theories about where the show was going to go, 307 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: I just sat on my hands. Yeah, not blabbing. Yeah, 308 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: where I wanted to be like, that is not what's 309 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: going to happen to that character, But okay, cool, I 310 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: love this theory. I never once said that. I was 311 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: just like, oh, that's an interesting idea. Yeah. That was 312 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: very difficult to sit on, especially because some of the 313 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: emotional beats are so hard, and you can't talk to 314 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: very many other people about them. Be like I'm I'm 315 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: I'm on the struggle bus emotionally we need to no 316 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: so good, yes so good? Anyway, I don't I don't 317 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: think secret societies worked very well. No. Now, I will 318 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: tell you the funny coda, which is said, I was 319 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,919 Speaker 1: talking to my beloved about this, as I often do, 320 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: and he said, that's exactly what the illuminati would watch it. 321 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: And he was joking, but he's right, like that out 322 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: That's why the concepts like this of conspiracy theories work 323 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: so well. You cannot disprove them because you can't really 324 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: prove a negative, can't prove the non existence of a 325 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: thing because there can always be a seed of doubt, 326 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 1: which is they're powerful. Anyway, I hope that everybody is 327 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: engaging in critical thought at all times. I know that's exhausting. 328 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: I want to do it all the time. Mm hmm. 329 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: Wears me out, but katta gotta. I know, our noisy 330 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: world is a lot to process all the time. I 331 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: had a similar discussion about this with one of my 332 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: siblings recently, who was like, I just I don't want 333 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: to pay attention to any of that, and I was like, 334 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: you have to mm hmm, like that is the burden 335 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: is on you, like you have to. But that's just 336 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: you know, everybody approaches the world differently. I'm very bossy 337 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: with my siblings. In any case, if you have days 338 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: off coming up, I hope that you get to watch 339 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: whatever show feels great to you. I am not anti escapism. 340 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 1: We all need an hour or two here and there 341 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 1: to play a game, goof off. Listen, I watch Garbage, 342 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: I watch Bravo TV. Sometimes a lot of times do 343 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: whatever makes you feel good and makes you ready to 344 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: be able to, you know, think critics about the world 345 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 1: around you and the thing's happening in your world, and 346 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: gives you that little valve of release so that you 347 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 1: can go on with your day to day without feeling 348 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 1: the weight of it all to a point of collapse. 349 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: I also hope that you find time to just embrace joy. 350 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: That's the secret society. Go out there and find joy 351 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: even when everything is a mess. You can make some 352 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: even in small increments. You know. For me, right now, 353 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,479 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about a delicious mac and cheese that I'm 354 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: going to have when we're done that's going to be 355 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 1: some joy for me today. Whatever you can do to 356 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: take care of yourself and hopefully take care of others, 357 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to encourage that if you have responsibilities where 358 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 1: you have to take care of others maybe, or you 359 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: gotta take care of work responsibilities, or you got to 360 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: do you know, something that you don't want to. I 361 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,959 Speaker 1: hope that goes smoothly, it gets done more quickly than 362 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: you anticipate, and that you have a little time to 363 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: yourself or with people that you love so that you 364 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: can all embrace joy together. Heavens we need it. We 365 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: will be right back here on Monday with a brand 366 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: new episode. We will also of course be here tomorrow 367 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: this Saturday. Classic Stuff You Missed in History Class is 368 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 369 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 370 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.