WEBVTT - Snowball - Episode 4: Charmed 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:15.836 Pushkin. 0:00:20.276 --> 0:00:23.876 In this episode, we've used voice actors for Leslie and 0:00:23.996 --> 0:00:27.196 her parents, as well as her mysterious lawyer, Eric t 0:00:27.356 --> 0:00:28.716 Weiss and his staff. 0:00:31.356 --> 0:00:34.396 I'm sorry that now you'll never really know what was 0:00:34.436 --> 0:00:34.876 real or not. 0:00:36.916 --> 0:00:40.396 Leslie wrote that in her divorce letter to my brother Greg. 0:00:41.236 --> 0:00:43.196 It's like she was toying with him. 0:00:44.036 --> 0:00:46.156 You'll never really know what was real or not. 0:00:47.356 --> 0:00:52.556 Leslie does draw blurry lines between fantasy and reality. She 0:00:52.756 --> 0:00:56.076 just probably wouldn't have expected anyone to start reading between 0:00:56.076 --> 0:01:01.196 those lines. But that's what I'm doing now, And I've 0:01:01.236 --> 0:01:04.036 uncovered what I reckon is the strangest part of this 0:01:04.156 --> 0:01:11.596 whole story. I've found something completely bizarre. And all those 0:01:11.676 --> 0:01:14.996 emails in the box of Leslie Docks that my dad kept, 0:01:15.676 --> 0:01:20.316 they reveal Leslie had a book deal with a big 0:01:20.356 --> 0:01:21.716 time publisher. 0:01:23.356 --> 0:01:26.236 To tell the story of her life. 0:01:26.796 --> 0:01:30.276 Well, I am going to start on a book next week. 0:01:31.316 --> 0:01:34.156 He believes you would be Greek at scriptwriting. 0:01:35.276 --> 0:01:37.076 Oh my head is spinning. 0:01:39.476 --> 0:01:43.716 Welcome to Unravel Season four. I'm Ollie Ward's and this 0:01:44.396 --> 0:02:04.236 is Snowball. So Leslie was writing an autobiography, like some 0:02:04.356 --> 0:02:07.716 kind of memoir of her crazy life. There's heaps of 0:02:07.756 --> 0:02:12.516 details about it in her email and who's handling the 0:02:12.556 --> 0:02:16.356 ins and outs of Leslie's book deal? Once again, enter 0:02:16.676 --> 0:02:20.876 Leslie's lawyer, her old mate, Eric t Weiss. 0:02:20.676 --> 0:02:21.476 As your lawyer. 0:02:21.916 --> 0:02:24.276 I am starting to this is the Eric who wrote 0:02:24.316 --> 0:02:26.956 a letter to Kiwibank confirming that Leslie had a big 0:02:26.956 --> 0:02:30.756 trust fund, and he happens to be the namesake of 0:02:30.796 --> 0:02:37.436 the great Harry Houdini. Eric sends emails to Leslie as 0:02:37.476 --> 0:02:39.116 he negotiates her book deal. 0:02:39.476 --> 0:02:41.516 If you are willing to sign a contract that they 0:02:41.596 --> 0:02:44.396 will be your publisher for ten years, this will allot 0:02:44.476 --> 0:02:46.516 you to begin on the other three books we have 0:02:46.596 --> 0:02:49.796 talked about, and you will only be on yours and 0:02:49.916 --> 0:02:51.596 Simon and Schuster's schedule. 0:02:51.956 --> 0:02:55.436 And this is where the extra glitz really starts getting sprinkled. 0:02:56.076 --> 0:02:59.196 Eric t Weiss isn't just a financial kind of dude 0:02:59.196 --> 0:03:03.236 who deals with trust fund admin. He's apparently a big 0:03:03.236 --> 0:03:05.836 shot entertainment lawyer. That's his main job. 0:03:07.716 --> 0:03:09.876 I am an entertainment attorney that has been in the 0:03:09.916 --> 0:03:13.036 business for over twenty years and have worked with many 0:03:13.156 --> 0:03:16.196 production companies, celebrities and musicians. 0:03:16.916 --> 0:03:19.516 I guess that explains why Eric runs into so many 0:03:19.556 --> 0:03:22.436 famous names like in that note, Leslie maid in her 0:03:22.436 --> 0:03:24.356 travel diary that she left a n N ZED. 0:03:26.236 --> 0:03:31.076 May three, New York. Eric met George Clooney, Julia Roberts 0:03:31.196 --> 0:03:32.116 private jet. 0:03:32.116 --> 0:03:41.716 From Dallas, movie stars and private jets. I'd like to 0:03:41.756 --> 0:03:44.836 imagine Eric t Weiss is like a Smami La Shobas 0:03:44.876 --> 0:03:48.396 type guy, kind of arrogant like Ari Gold from Entourage, 0:03:48.676 --> 0:03:52.636 but shonky like Saul Goodman from Breaking Bad. I imagine 0:03:52.676 --> 0:03:55.196 him in a suit with a loud, colorful tie, and 0:03:55.236 --> 0:03:56.356 I reckon he's got a combover. 0:03:57.156 --> 0:03:59.316 I have not been in my office during the days 0:03:59.436 --> 0:04:01.396 due to the fact that I have been defending a 0:04:01.556 --> 0:04:06.556 celebrity case. Right now, it is confidential, so I cannot 0:04:06.596 --> 0:04:07.036 say who. 0:04:08.076 --> 0:04:10.796 So why is the liberty lawyer working with Leslie? 0:04:10.796 --> 0:04:10.956 Then? 0:04:11.676 --> 0:04:14.596 Well, from what I can see in these emails, Eric 0:04:14.676 --> 0:04:17.276 claims to be lining Leslie up to be as rich 0:04:17.316 --> 0:04:19.236 and famous as the rest of his crowd. 0:04:19.796 --> 0:04:23.316 Until you become famous. You are a nobody in this industry, 0:04:24.036 --> 0:04:27.116 but you already know that it will be worth it 0:04:27.156 --> 0:04:30.716 one day, Leslie, So do not get depressed, continue to 0:04:30.756 --> 0:04:33.716 be strong and remember what the end result will bring. 0:04:34.156 --> 0:04:37.836 You will be financially secure for life and you'll be 0:04:37.876 --> 0:04:40.236 able to buy your dad that hummer. 0:04:39.876 --> 0:04:40.916 You keep talking about. 0:04:44.036 --> 0:04:47.396 Eric is really encouraging to Leslie, like he's beyond what 0:04:47.396 --> 0:04:50.436 you would expect the lawyer to be, which is good because, 0:04:50.476 --> 0:04:53.796 as Leslie explains to her parents, writing a book is hard. 0:04:54.916 --> 0:04:57.836 The whole last ten chapters of the book that was 0:04:57.876 --> 0:05:00.796 redone has been denied due to the fact that it 0:05:00.876 --> 0:05:04.156 is too similar to a story that was written by 0:05:04.156 --> 0:05:08.996 an author about ten years ago. On my head is spinning. 0:05:09.596 --> 0:05:13.196 But Eric said that lawyers are constantly finding books that 0:05:13.276 --> 0:05:16.436 are too similar and must have avoid a lawsuit. That 0:05:16.596 --> 0:05:19.716 is why they are hired as in house attorneys. He said, 0:05:19.716 --> 0:05:22.636 it happens all the time, and we must rewrite it 0:05:22.676 --> 0:05:23.756 in a different wording. 0:05:25.956 --> 0:05:29.036 So when I read these emails about Leslie getting a 0:05:29.116 --> 0:05:32.956 memoir published, I thought, well, that takes things up a notch. 0:05:33.916 --> 0:05:35.476 But that's not even the big picture. 0:05:36.116 --> 0:05:39.956 Because that book about the story of Leslie's life was 0:05:39.996 --> 0:05:43.436 supposedly going to be made into a movie. 0:05:44.996 --> 0:05:47.436 Sony cannot go forward with the movie until the book 0:05:47.476 --> 0:05:50.876 has been released. I have recommended that the film in 0:05:50.916 --> 0:05:57.876 Sun Valley, Idaho, which shows the same picturesque setting, is Toho. 0:05:58.756 --> 0:06:01.836 I just can't believe how deep this world goes. So 0:06:01.916 --> 0:06:06.556 we've got Eric t Weiss Esquire talking through the details 0:06:06.596 --> 0:06:12.396 of a movie about Leslie based on a book by Leslie. 0:06:12.636 --> 0:06:16.036 And that's not all. Leslie told her parents that for 0:06:16.076 --> 0:06:18.876 the big screen version, a big name was lined up 0:06:18.916 --> 0:06:19.396 to play her. 0:06:19.796 --> 0:06:24.236 The movie script has been accepted. In Flying Colors, Alissa 0:06:24.316 --> 0:06:26.436 Milano has signed on. 0:06:29.756 --> 0:06:36.196 Pretty good casting. Remember Alyssa Milano from Charmed or as 0:06:36.236 --> 0:06:39.996 the daughter Nie goes on a rampage FOURG commando. She 0:06:40.116 --> 0:06:42.996 is long dark here like Leslie's good choice. 0:06:43.716 --> 0:06:48.356 Alissa Milano will be an Enza in November. She's going 0:06:48.356 --> 0:06:50.036 to hang out with me for a week or two 0:06:50.196 --> 0:06:55.596 to know my personality. Study it, so I'll have to 0:06:55.636 --> 0:06:59.076 be on vacation from Greg and his family at that time. 0:06:59.796 --> 0:07:01.516 I hope we have a house by then so I 0:07:01.556 --> 0:07:06.316 do not have to sneak around his family. Eric said 0:07:06.316 --> 0:07:08.316 that I will be getting paid starting July. 0:07:09.156 --> 0:07:11.996 Sounds like some real method acting from Melissa Milano taking 0:07:11.996 --> 0:07:15.596 on the role of Leslie. Ever since I read these emails, 0:07:16.196 --> 0:07:19.356 I can't stop wondering what a movie about Leslie would 0:07:19.396 --> 0:07:19.796 be like. 0:07:21.236 --> 0:07:25.756 In a world where one woman's fantasies come to life. 0:07:26.236 --> 0:07:29.756 With cravat Zapp Franzality. 0:07:29.756 --> 0:07:36.156 This Summer and Missa Milano is Leslie Minuchian and the 0:07:36.276 --> 0:07:41.876 Girl with the Dragonfly tattoo. 0:07:44.916 --> 0:07:50.036 So obviously that movie never came out because it's fictional, 0:07:50.796 --> 0:07:54.236 fictional in the sense that it didn't exist. That goes 0:07:54.276 --> 0:07:56.796 for the book too. I got in touch with Simon 0:07:56.836 --> 0:08:00.556 and Schuster, the book publisher. I was curious, even though 0:08:00.596 --> 0:08:03.516 I knew what they would say, and yeah, they've never 0:08:03.556 --> 0:08:07.916 heard of Leslie Minuchian or Eric t weiss Esquire. 0:08:09.436 --> 0:08:12.436 I also hit up Alissa Milano's manager. Ditto. 0:08:13.356 --> 0:08:16.876 Alissa's manager actually told me after I called and explained 0:08:16.876 --> 0:08:20.596 all this to her. Both she and Alyssa gogoled Leslie. 0:08:20.956 --> 0:08:25.076 They found something about a restaurant and Alissa Milano was like, 0:08:25.716 --> 0:08:29.316 I was supposed to play a chef. So it's all 0:08:29.356 --> 0:08:33.236 a fantasy. But the amazing thing about this bizarro world 0:08:33.476 --> 0:08:36.596 is just how detailed it is. There's this whole cast 0:08:36.676 --> 0:08:42.236 of characters. It's not just Eric, there's ghost writers, agents, publishers. 0:08:42.756 --> 0:08:44.876 There's even drama between these people. 0:08:44.996 --> 0:08:48.596 We are having legal problems with James. He is not 0:08:48.716 --> 0:08:51.036 satisfied with any of the book and is threatening to 0:08:51.076 --> 0:08:53.916 sue Simon and Schuster if they do not present better writing. 0:08:54.436 --> 0:08:56.076 Can you believe this jerk? 0:08:56.636 --> 0:08:58.916 He has nothing to do with it besides his name, 0:08:59.236 --> 0:09:02.596 and he is the one making threats as your lawyer, 0:09:03.156 --> 0:09:06.276 I am starting to make threats also. 0:09:07.396 --> 0:09:09.796 Eric has so much going on making things happened for 0:09:09.876 --> 0:09:13.356 Leslie that he has his own team around him. 0:09:14.076 --> 0:09:17.836 Hi, Leslie, hope this email finds you well. At the moment, 0:09:17.996 --> 0:09:21.236 I am back in Bangkok, still dealing with legal issues. 0:09:21.836 --> 0:09:24.756 Charlie rang me last night and things are changing again. 0:09:25.276 --> 0:09:27.836 I realized that you were being tossed around and I 0:09:27.916 --> 0:09:30.956 wish I could make this process easier on you. As 0:09:30.996 --> 0:09:33.916 of now, you are to remain in the UK, and 0:09:33.996 --> 0:09:36.436 Alyssa is going to meet you in London for the 0:09:36.596 --> 0:09:39.396 entire month of June to get to know you personally. 0:09:41.036 --> 0:09:44.516 I think Charlie is one of his assistants, and sometimes 0:09:44.756 --> 0:09:49.316 Eric gets so busy that another assistant, Jackie, takes control 0:09:49.356 --> 0:09:50.916 of his Gmail account. 0:09:51.316 --> 0:09:55.116 Good afternoon, missus Minukian, and mister Minukian. I'm writing on 0:09:55.196 --> 0:09:57.916 behalf of Eric. He has had to fly out for 0:09:57.956 --> 0:10:00.556 an important meeting and had hoped to be back by 0:10:00.556 --> 0:10:04.676 this afternoon, but is delayed until tomorrow morning. Thank you 0:10:04.716 --> 0:10:08.676 for your patience. Jackie EA for Eric Weiss. 0:10:09.876 --> 0:10:12.596 Then Eric even has to come back in and explain 0:10:12.636 --> 0:10:13.756 where Jackie is gone. 0:10:13.876 --> 0:10:17.276 Dear Betty and Andy, I am very sorry for not 0:10:17.316 --> 0:10:20.396 being in touch sooner. Everything here has been very hectic. 0:10:20.876 --> 0:10:23.916 I have been handling legal problems and Jackie is going 0:10:23.956 --> 0:10:26.796 to be out for at least three months. She has 0:10:26.876 --> 0:10:28.996 had to have a hysterectomy. 0:10:31.076 --> 0:10:34.996 So many specific details a hysteric to me. It's like 0:10:35.036 --> 0:10:38.396 a soap opera in Leslie's inbox. This isn't where I 0:10:38.396 --> 0:10:40.916 thought this trail would take me, but I'm kind of 0:10:40.956 --> 0:10:45.156 into learning about these characters. Leslie even has a ghostwriter 0:10:45.476 --> 0:10:46.396 called Scooter. 0:10:50.076 --> 0:10:53.076 Scooter came in to see me last night. It was 0:10:53.156 --> 0:10:56.356 like old times seeing it at the bar. He really 0:10:56.516 --> 0:10:59.596 has a great personality once you get to know him. 0:11:00.436 --> 0:11:03.236 After a couple of glass support, he was talking to 0:11:03.316 --> 0:11:05.556 all the other people around him. 0:11:05.996 --> 0:11:09.076 Scooter was helping to write Leslie's book and movie screen. 0:11:09.796 --> 0:11:13.236 He was apparently even in New Zealand with Leslie, but 0:11:13.356 --> 0:11:17.236 of course Grig never met him. That's a shame because 0:11:17.276 --> 0:11:19.796 Scooter sounded like he was having a good time. 0:11:20.796 --> 0:11:25.356 I spoke to Scooter. He is loving and sad. He said, 0:11:25.396 --> 0:11:29.556 it is starting to get cold, winter is approaching, but 0:11:29.796 --> 0:11:34.636 everyone is so friendly and helpful. He's already made a 0:11:34.676 --> 0:11:37.476 couple of friends, and he is shocked that no one 0:11:37.596 --> 0:11:41.156 is pretentious or snobby. All classes of people hang out 0:11:41.196 --> 0:11:44.116 with each other. He said, there is no elite crowd. 0:11:45.556 --> 0:11:48.556 He also said that he has never slept so peaceful, 0:11:48.916 --> 0:11:52.156 and it is very quiet around his home. He has 0:11:52.276 --> 0:11:55.476 never been so at ease with himself. He sounded so 0:11:55.716 --> 0:11:59.036 calm and clear hated. He asked about you and Dad 0:11:59.076 --> 0:12:01.036 and says hello. 0:12:01.756 --> 0:12:05.636 I keep asking myself are these characters too detailed to 0:12:05.676 --> 0:12:08.756 be fake? And I guess that's the purpose of all 0:12:08.796 --> 0:12:12.916 these subplots and characters. There's just so much banal detail. 0:12:13.276 --> 0:12:17.316 It's hard to imagine someone making it up. If Leslie 0:12:17.436 --> 0:12:20.756 was creating all these characters, then in a weird way, 0:12:20.956 --> 0:12:24.236 it's almost like she was writing a book. But it's 0:12:24.396 --> 0:12:29.716 just a fictional world created in emails. 0:12:31.276 --> 0:12:32.196 We'll be right back. 0:12:33.956 --> 0:12:36.116 So the big question about all of this book and 0:12:36.196 --> 0:12:40.236 movie stuff is why as detailed and complex as this 0:12:40.276 --> 0:12:43.476 fake world is. I reckon Leslie probably invented it to 0:12:43.516 --> 0:12:47.796 serve a few purposes. Firstly, most of these emails, in 0:12:47.876 --> 0:12:52.276 some way or another are about money, like here, Eric 0:12:52.356 --> 0:12:54.196 is hustling royalty payments for Leslie. 0:12:54.516 --> 0:12:56.996 I have notified Sony that you are to receive income 0:12:57.076 --> 0:12:59.956 starting June fifteenth at the amount of thirty five hundred 0:12:59.996 --> 0:13:02.596 dollars per month. And I have sent a written threat 0:13:02.596 --> 0:13:04.876 to Simon and Schuster that you are to receive two 0:13:04.916 --> 0:13:07.956 thousand dollars a month until the book is finished. 0:13:08.556 --> 0:13:11.156 It looks like Eric's emails are a useful way for 0:13:11.236 --> 0:13:13.596 Leslie to show people that she's either going to have 0:13:13.636 --> 0:13:17.116 some big cash money payments coming in any day now, 0:13:17.356 --> 0:13:20.996 or to explain why some money hasn't arrived. And then 0:13:21.036 --> 0:13:24.436 these emails afforded on to whoever Leslie owes money to, 0:13:24.996 --> 0:13:27.836 and sort of sadly, the main target of a lot 0:13:27.836 --> 0:13:31.516 of the smoke and mirrors seems to be Leslie's own parents. 0:13:32.276 --> 0:13:36.076 Eric even writes directly to them. 0:13:35.076 --> 0:13:37.076 Hi, Andrew and Bettie. 0:13:37.476 --> 0:13:40.036 It has been over two months since our last emails 0:13:40.036 --> 0:13:42.516 to one another. I hope that everything is all right. 0:13:44.396 --> 0:13:47.076 It has been a long journey for me in Bangkok, 0:13:47.436 --> 0:13:51.276 an experience I hope to forget. My stomach is still 0:13:51.316 --> 0:13:55.996 groaning from the food, and I have actually lost quite 0:13:56.036 --> 0:13:56.876 a bit of wheat. 0:13:58.356 --> 0:14:02.836 That's the big shot lawyer telling his client's parents about 0:14:02.876 --> 0:14:07.556 his travel stomach. Aside from the small talk, one of 0:14:07.596 --> 0:14:11.116 the main things Eric emails Betty and Andrew about is 0:14:11.236 --> 0:14:14.796 royalty money. Royalty money they're expecting from these book and 0:14:14.876 --> 0:14:18.916 movie deals. And that's convenient because we know that around 0:14:18.916 --> 0:14:21.116 this time they said that they were in deep shit 0:14:21.236 --> 0:14:25.236 debt and Leslie owed them money. But when these royalties 0:14:25.276 --> 0:14:27.796 don't come in, Eric has to explain. 0:14:28.156 --> 0:14:30.676 Leslie has been on my tail about the pre royalty 0:14:30.716 --> 0:14:33.716 payments from Simon and Schuster and Sony. I have your 0:14:33.756 --> 0:14:36.316 scan of bank details and I am working on this 0:14:36.436 --> 0:14:37.596 as fast as possible. 0:14:38.916 --> 0:14:41.996 Eric is like a buffer between Leslie and her parents. 0:14:42.636 --> 0:14:45.956 If money owed to Leslie's parents is delayed, Eric has 0:14:45.996 --> 0:14:49.076 a good reason or he steps in when she's not 0:14:49.196 --> 0:14:52.356 covering a bill. Like while Leslie was in New Zealand, 0:14:52.596 --> 0:14:57.316 she had a speedboat in storage. Back in America, fees 0:14:57.356 --> 0:15:00.356 were racking up and her parents started getting calls about 0:15:00.356 --> 0:15:00.996 all the bills. 0:15:01.716 --> 0:15:03.996 So Eric comes to the rescue. 0:15:04.236 --> 0:15:07.636 Thank you for following up with the boat. In Leslie's defense, 0:15:08.116 --> 0:15:10.276 I know that they were not and kept up to 0:15:10.356 --> 0:15:14.796 date on the situation. We are just not sure who 0:15:14.796 --> 0:15:16.996 it was that fetes the info on the storage fees. 0:15:17.276 --> 0:15:20.436 But who I beat a dead horse. Let's just get 0:15:20.476 --> 0:15:22.636 to the root of the problem and move on. 0:15:29.116 --> 0:15:31.476 As well as explaining money stuff to Biddy and Andrew, 0:15:31.956 --> 0:15:35.036 Eric serves a purpose of weirdly vouching for Leslie. 0:15:35.876 --> 0:15:38.276 Have a nice night, and I look forward to settling 0:15:38.316 --> 0:15:41.396 this matter for you and Andrew. And let's leave Leslie 0:15:41.436 --> 0:15:43.876 in New Zealand where no one can hurt her or 0:15:43.916 --> 0:15:46.516 her character. She is a great girl who is just 0:15:46.556 --> 0:15:49.516 too nice and too trusting. But these are the qualities 0:15:49.556 --> 0:15:50.996 that people love most about her. 0:15:51.636 --> 0:15:54.076 I guess if you have a character covering for you 0:15:54.196 --> 0:15:56.876 for not paying bills and stuff, why not have them 0:15:56.996 --> 0:15:59.156 pump up your rebox and talk you up as a 0:15:59.196 --> 0:16:02.956 person too. Wherever in the world there is trouble with Leslie, 0:16:03.396 --> 0:16:04.916 Eric swings in with an explanation. 0:16:05.756 --> 0:16:09.236 Lake Tahoe, next to Hawaii is one of the the 0:16:09.236 --> 0:16:11.716 most corrupt communities I have done research on. 0:16:12.636 --> 0:16:15.036 Maybe that takes the heat off Leslie when her parents 0:16:15.036 --> 0:16:18.956 hear bits and pieces contradicting her stories and throughout it 0:16:18.996 --> 0:16:22.316 all it does look like at least Betty thinks Eric 0:16:22.676 --> 0:16:26.636 and his assistants and all the book chat and even 0:16:26.916 --> 0:16:31.196 Eric's Bangkok travel gut are real. Here's what Betty wrote 0:16:31.236 --> 0:16:31.956 back to Jackie. 0:16:33.516 --> 0:16:36.556 So glad that Eric is okay. If you can say 0:16:36.596 --> 0:16:40.556 what he is experiencing is okay, maybe he's the one 0:16:40.556 --> 0:16:44.476 who should write a book. Well, hope he gets back soon, 0:16:44.756 --> 0:16:48.796 safe and sound. Again. Thanks for all your help and 0:16:48.996 --> 0:16:50.196 keeping us up to date. 0:16:50.836 --> 0:16:51.196 Betty. 0:16:54.356 --> 0:16:56.676 I feel like every time I read through these emails, 0:16:56.716 --> 0:16:59.236 Dad cut and paste it into word docs, I figure 0:16:59.276 --> 0:17:02.276 out another piece of the puzzle. The other day, as 0:17:02.316 --> 0:17:05.476 I read them again, I started to realize something. A 0:17:05.476 --> 0:17:08.876 lot of these emails are directly between Eric and Leslie's 0:17:08.916 --> 0:17:11.596 pair parents for ages. I just figured that they had 0:17:11.716 --> 0:17:13.876 ended up in this box because Betty must have forwarded 0:17:13.876 --> 0:17:17.156 them to Leslie or she was c seed. Dad usually 0:17:17.156 --> 0:17:21.156 didn't take screenshots. He just copypasted the text, so there's 0:17:21.156 --> 0:17:25.316 often only from and two names and a date. But 0:17:25.436 --> 0:17:28.236 now I'm thinking, hang on, it's weird. How many of 0:17:28.276 --> 0:17:31.916 these direct emails between Eric and Betty and Andrew we have. 0:17:32.916 --> 0:17:35.876 How did my dad see these ones in Leslie's account? 0:17:36.436 --> 0:17:39.876 Were they really all forwarded on to Leslie. Sometimes they're 0:17:39.876 --> 0:17:43.876 even talking about Leslie and these emails, like here Eric 0:17:43.956 --> 0:17:45.756 tells Betty and Andrew he's not going to make it 0:17:45.796 --> 0:17:47.916 to the event in New Zealand. 0:17:48.836 --> 0:17:49.476 I am not. 0:17:49.556 --> 0:17:52.036 Sure I will make it for Leslie's wedding. I have 0:17:52.116 --> 0:17:54.796 not told her yet since I do not want to 0:17:54.796 --> 0:17:55.516 disappoint her. 0:17:56.356 --> 0:17:57.436 Am I missing something? 0:17:59.236 --> 0:18:03.836 So I asked Dad, there's emails that are directly from 0:18:05.196 --> 0:18:10.036 Eric to Leslie's parents, and it's like he's not on CC. 0:18:10.276 --> 0:18:12.636 So I don't understand how you have those emails. 0:18:14.676 --> 0:18:19.756 I was also getting emails. I was spying, if you like, 0:18:19.916 --> 0:18:25.796 on Eric's emails as well as Leslie's. How did that happen? 0:18:27.916 --> 0:18:31.996 Because it's at one stage this is when I started 0:18:31.996 --> 0:18:38.836 thinking that Leslie seemed to be using Eric as her 0:18:39.636 --> 0:18:42.316 kind of alter ego or something. And I started to 0:18:42.356 --> 0:18:46.236 think about that, and then I was thinking, well, if 0:18:46.316 --> 0:18:53.436 she is Eric, then maybe I can look at Eric's 0:18:53.996 --> 0:18:55.836 emails with her password. 0:18:57.916 --> 0:19:01.636 And I did and it worked. Why didn't you tell 0:19:01.676 --> 0:19:03.836 me this when we were talking about the hair? Sure 0:19:03.916 --> 0:19:04.596 I told you this. 0:19:07.156 --> 0:19:11.356 He definitely didn't. I think I would remember that when 0:19:11.396 --> 0:19:13.676 I went back to New Zealand to start this investigation. 0:19:14.116 --> 0:19:17.436 I asked Dad to step me through everything chronologically. We 0:19:17.516 --> 0:19:19.996 mustn't have got to that bit. I'm sure, Tod, like 0:19:20.076 --> 0:19:22.236 I've been through this whole thing trying to find the 0:19:22.276 --> 0:19:26.756 real Eric t Weiss and the dude in Michigan and 0:19:27.356 --> 0:19:33.316 all that stuff. How long after you you contacted him 0:19:33.916 --> 0:19:36.236 and how long after you started accessing. 0:19:37.036 --> 0:19:38.836 Before I twigged. 0:19:39.356 --> 0:19:42.076 I can remember where I was in their basement there 0:19:43.076 --> 0:19:46.716 and it was a bit of a breakthrough moment, as 0:19:46.756 --> 0:19:50.236 you can imagine. And I still find it odd that 0:19:50.396 --> 0:19:54.196 she went to the great lengths as she did if 0:19:54.236 --> 0:19:58.596 in fact Eric is her that his emails to her. 0:20:00.156 --> 0:20:02.996 He emailed her as well, of course, giving her advice, 0:20:04.276 --> 0:20:07.956 and she emailed him telling him how terrible things were 0:20:07.996 --> 0:20:12.116 and blah blah blah. And I thought Eric did exist, 0:20:12.756 --> 0:20:17.156 and it wasn't. And I still wouldn't write that off. 0:20:18.036 --> 0:20:22.236 Even though the password seems to hang about us being 0:20:22.236 --> 0:20:22.636 the same. 0:20:22.876 --> 0:20:26.076 So you're saying that the password that you were using 0:20:26.116 --> 0:20:32.116 for Leslie's emails is exactly the same password that logs 0:20:32.116 --> 0:20:36.596 into the account for Eric t Weiss, which is a 0:20:36.636 --> 0:20:40.476 Gmail account. So it's the same password, two different accounts. 0:20:41.076 --> 0:20:46.116 Yes, And the fact is, oh my god, I. 0:20:46.116 --> 0:20:50.556 Just I can't believe that I've been I've that I 0:20:50.596 --> 0:20:54.116 haven't nailed this yet. You know, I've been working on 0:20:54.116 --> 0:20:59.236 this thing for eight months and it turns out that 0:21:00.036 --> 0:21:04.796 you had access to Eric t Weiss's in box as 0:21:04.796 --> 0:21:05.836 well as Leslie's. 0:21:06.636 --> 0:21:10.516 Like, don't you think that's crucial? Like, I'm sure, I 0:21:10.636 --> 0:21:11.756 told you, I'm sure. 0:21:11.916 --> 0:21:17.836 I am just absolutely like obviously you didn't get it. 0:21:16.796 --> 0:21:24.156 Leslie is Eric. I am just like, I don't even 0:21:24.196 --> 0:21:26.356 know what to make of this whole thing. 0:21:26.476 --> 0:21:26.716 Now. 0:21:27.716 --> 0:21:33.316 It's crazier than I thought it was, so there it is. 0:21:34.156 --> 0:21:38.436 Eric and Leslie had the same email password and. 0:21:41.916 --> 0:21:42.916 The Great Houdini. 0:21:45.476 --> 0:21:49.316 After reading all these emails over and over, wondering about 0:21:49.356 --> 0:21:52.036 whether the people in them are real or not, I 0:21:52.116 --> 0:21:56.316 kind of feel like I know the gang, Eric Jackie 0:21:56.676 --> 0:22:00.556 Scooter Dad says. The emails from Eric's account slowed down. 0:22:00.596 --> 0:22:03.956 After a while, Eric and the Gang's story started to 0:22:03.956 --> 0:22:04.596 come to an end. 0:22:05.076 --> 0:22:07.516 I am working a long hours trying to get these 0:22:07.556 --> 0:22:10.636 contracts back in place. Not to mention, I am getting 0:22:10.716 --> 0:22:15.076 tired of the music scene. It is grueling hours. Most 0:22:15.076 --> 0:22:18.636 of the bands that I represent are immature punks whose 0:22:18.716 --> 0:22:22.916 heads are up their weirs. I found out today that 0:22:23.036 --> 0:22:26.996 Jackie has been put on permanent disability and will definitely 0:22:27.036 --> 0:22:30.436 not be coming back to work, So Scooter is going 0:22:30.436 --> 0:22:32.076 to help me out three days a week. 0:22:35.396 --> 0:22:42.876 Jackie the EA's hysterectomy mustn't have gone well. Okay, So 0:22:42.996 --> 0:22:45.596 now we know pretty much for certain that this whole 0:22:45.636 --> 0:22:50.596 world really is in Leslie's imagination. So if Leslie created 0:22:50.636 --> 0:22:54.076 and played the role of Eric and Jackie and Scooter 0:22:54.236 --> 0:22:57.076 and probably more I don't even know about, it just 0:22:57.236 --> 0:23:00.756 seems so weird the lengths she went to to deceive 0:23:01.236 --> 0:23:06.676 her own parents. At the very least, Betty seems totally 0:23:06.716 --> 0:23:10.356 convinced that Eric is real and to be. Other people 0:23:10.356 --> 0:23:13.836 were convinced by Leslie's world along the way, even Kiwi back. 0:23:14.836 --> 0:23:17.716 It feels like Leslie herself might be so far into 0:23:17.796 --> 0:23:21.236 this fantasy that she sort of believes in it, or 0:23:21.276 --> 0:23:24.636 at least she uses the characters to create an ideal 0:23:24.756 --> 0:23:27.476 version of herself and a world that she had liked 0:23:27.476 --> 0:23:27.876 to live in. 0:23:29.236 --> 0:23:31.996 Scooter feels that you have what it takes to be 0:23:32.156 --> 0:23:37.556 a wonderful writer. He believes you would be great. That's scriptwriting. 0:23:40.796 --> 0:23:43.876 It makes me think, am I trying to understand something 0:23:43.956 --> 0:23:48.316 more complicated with Leslie than where I first started. Leslie 0:23:48.396 --> 0:23:51.876 doesn't just use fake documents. It looks like Leslie is 0:23:51.916 --> 0:23:56.236 prepared to use fake personas. So tracking her down and 0:23:56.396 --> 0:23:58.996 working out what's real and what's not could be more 0:23:58.996 --> 0:24:01.796 difficult than I thought. But I have to give it 0:24:01.836 --> 0:24:04.916 a go. I need to get onto Leslie's home turf. 0:24:05.596 --> 0:24:08.476 I need to go to the US. I can only 0:24:08.476 --> 0:24:11.956 find out more about what's real by playing an away game. 0:24:12.956 --> 0:24:15.756 This is a trip my family has always wondered about. 0:24:16.076 --> 0:24:19.676 Every time there was an earfair to Los Angeles that 0:24:19.836 --> 0:24:22.836 was a good price, we'd think, let's get on that 0:24:24.156 --> 0:24:25.396 and go and find her. 0:24:26.196 --> 0:24:28.556 Before I get on a plane. I want to understand 0:24:28.556 --> 0:24:32.036 what they would want as closure. Years ago, I remember 0:24:32.116 --> 0:24:35.996 Mum saying she was tempted to want some sort of revenge. 0:24:36.676 --> 0:24:37.676 I asked her about that. 0:24:38.556 --> 0:24:41.956 Oh no, I wouldn't say revenge was the word. What 0:24:42.236 --> 0:24:47.196