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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, you're welcome to Stuff to Blow

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Speaker 1: your mind. My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm truly

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Speaker 1: Douglas Julie. Are you ready for life in space in

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Speaker 1: the witless Void? Yeah? Pretty much. Yeah, I've been in

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Speaker 1: training for it. Okay, yeah because zero Yeah, of course

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Speaker 1: you have to stay in training, that's the thing, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah you can't. I mean that that is the problem

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Speaker 1: of our bodies, right, We're not really built for for

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Speaker 1: the void. Yeah, the void. It's quite a quite a

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Speaker 1: hurdle to overcome when we're trying to envision this long

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Speaker 1: term future in which humans really get serious about waiting

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Speaker 1: out into the cosmic ocean. Right to steal Sagan's term there. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The thing is, though, I mean, it is on the horizon.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is one of those moments you can

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Speaker 1: probably pause and think, Okay, all of this has seemed

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Speaker 1: like some sort of crazy agenda that will never get

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Speaker 1: to But the fact of the matter is that space

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Speaker 1: colonization is sort of around the corner if you take

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Speaker 1: the wide view angle, right, Um, I mean think of

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Speaker 1: someone like Elon Musk, the PayPal guy, I mean, he's

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Speaker 1: publicly stated that his long term goal is to privately

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Speaker 1: fund the colonization of Mars, and he doesn't wanted money

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Speaker 1: to do that. Right. Um, you have the Polar Explorers

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Speaker 1: Tom and Tina Shorgen, and they're designing a private flight

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Speaker 1: to Mars, and recently the europe based Mars one project

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Speaker 1: announced the school of establishing a human colony on Mars

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Speaker 1: by three. All these things are being funded privately, which

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Speaker 1: gives them a little bit more in terms of their realization. True, okay,

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Speaker 1: these are all great plans, but but I can't help

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Speaker 1: but be reminded. I think a lot of us in

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Speaker 1: our state early twenties, we may have gotten in our

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Speaker 1: mind at one point, I'm going to move to New York.

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Speaker 1: I'm totally gonna move to New York and I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: be I'm gonna get a job there, and the Department's

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Speaker 1: just going to movie and all. And granted, some of

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Speaker 1: us actually do that, but for the rest of us,

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Speaker 1: there comes a point when you realize that there's a

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Speaker 1: there are a series of steps between the idea and

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Speaker 1: the reality that have to be carried out. And um,

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Speaker 1: and it's easy to skim over those when you're dreaming. Um.

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Speaker 1: We in our recent episode about the movie Prometheus, we

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Speaker 1: discussed magic anti gravity and or magical gravity boards spaceships.

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Speaker 1: In these dreams where we try and envision what the

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Speaker 1: future of a man's space flight will be like, we

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Speaker 1: often will just throw out a cheap uh. Not all

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Speaker 1: that will explained is explained at all our artificial gravity scenario,

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Speaker 1: so that we don't have to deal with the realities

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Speaker 1: of weightlessness, zero g and micro g um during the flight.

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Speaker 1: Because as we know that, and as we're going to

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Speaker 1: discuss in this podcast, uh, gravity is really essential to life.

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Speaker 1: It's essential to life as we know it, to the

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Speaker 1: evolution of life as we know it, and life as

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Speaker 1: it exists all around this lives in a state that

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Speaker 1: depends on gravity. Okay, So, getting back to your New

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Speaker 1: York analogy to moving in your twenties, are you talking

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Speaker 1: about something like if you don't go in your twenties

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Speaker 1: and get used to living in two hundred square feet

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Speaker 1: of space and instead you stay in your comfy place

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Speaker 1: of a thousand square feet by the time you're thirty,

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Speaker 1: you'll never be able to adapt back to that two

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Speaker 1: hundred square foot foot of space. Well, I think that's true,

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Speaker 1: because you do get the impression that once people moved

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Speaker 1: to New York, they cannot move out, and then they

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Speaker 1: make you know, they'll say, oh, well, you know, I

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Speaker 1: love the art here, I love the culture here, and

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Speaker 1: I'm living my dream and and all this. But but

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Speaker 1: perhaps it's simply that if they actually moved to another location,

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Speaker 1: their bodies would just fall apart on them. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: there's yeah, that New York has its own gravity, that's

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Speaker 1: what you're saying, much like outer space has, you know,

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Speaker 1: micro gravity. So that's the problem here, right, this adaptability,

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Speaker 1: and yet we know that we are pretty adaptable as

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Speaker 1: a species. That's right, at least over the long term.

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Speaker 1: And they've been a number of science fiction and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, ponderings about life in a weightless environment. But

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Speaker 1: one that comes to mind most readily because I'm reading

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Speaker 1: it right now, are the Alsters in Hyperion, Dan Simon's

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Speaker 1: novels uh kind of a you know, an epic philosophical

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Speaker 1: space opera type of deal. And there are these uh,

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Speaker 1: these humans that have uh in the past, traveled out

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Speaker 1: into the void and have grown used to a microgravity situation.

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Speaker 1: So now they're like long slender humans that have to

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Speaker 1: wear powered exosuits. If they're gonna go into a world

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Speaker 1: with gravitation, they have their their suits will often have

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Speaker 1: a robotic tail on the end that helps them, uh

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Speaker 1: navigate like weightless corridors, and we and like kind of

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Speaker 1: propelled them a little bit forward. Yeah. Yeah, which is

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Speaker 1: an interesting idea, you know, because you're you're bringing in

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Speaker 1: ideas of not only physical changes in a weightless environment,

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Speaker 1: but also uh cybernetic augmentation, uh to cope with this

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Speaker 1: new environment of space, which is something and we've gone

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Speaker 1: into in the past when we discussed cyboards and when

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Speaker 1: we discussed the future of man space travel in the

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Speaker 1: werewolf principle. So you know, if you guys have already

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Speaker 1: cleared into it, this is what we're talking about today.

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Speaker 1: This idea of, um, you know, when we colonized space. Uh,

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Speaker 1: what will that be like, you know, a hundred years out,

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Speaker 1: two hundred years out, a hundred thousand years out. Not

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Speaker 1: that we can necessarily answer answer that, but we can

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Speaker 1: talk about some of the challenges we have in the

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Speaker 1: way that we have been uh genetically modified for life

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Speaker 1: here on Earth as opposed to space. Yeah, and not

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Speaker 1: just our journey into space, but life itself, because we're

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Speaker 1: ultimately talking about not just taking humanity and granted we're

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Speaker 1: pretty vain, so pretty vain species, So we're largely talking

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Speaker 1: about thinking humanity, but we're we're essentially talking about taking

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Speaker 1: that seed of life elsewhere. What happens when the seed

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Speaker 1: of life, Earth, life, life as we know it is

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Speaker 1: taken to a weightless environment or another world with a

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Speaker 1: different gravitational situation going on. It's so the most logical

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Speaker 1: starting point here is really to discuss some of what

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Speaker 1: we know about micro gravity and humans. Um. Ultimately, we

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Speaker 1: really didn't have a firm idea about the micro gravity's

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Speaker 1: effect on the human body until we actually got human

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Speaker 1: bodies up there. And uh, and research still continues into

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Speaker 1: how these how the effects of microgravity ravage us, how

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Speaker 1: we adapt to those of this environment, what effects it

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Speaker 1: has on the the life cycles of humans and the

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Speaker 1: bodies and life cycles of countless other organisms. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: let's talk about what happens in microgravity when you throw

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Speaker 1: up a human in space. Um, yeah, and they just

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Speaker 1: stick up there. Um. What they have observed, among many

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Speaker 1: many things, is something called puffy face and skinny legs,

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Speaker 1: also known as Charlie Brown head. Okay, I like that

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Speaker 1: because he essentially up looking like Charlie Brown. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because spaceflight causes a fluid shift from the legs toward

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Speaker 1: the head, and so you get the puffy face and

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Speaker 1: then your your legs begin and your muscles obviously to

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Speaker 1: begin to atrophy and become a bit thinner. And this

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Speaker 1: is what they call the bird like legs syndrome. Well,

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Speaker 1: our bodies are I mean, our veins are like rivers, right,

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Speaker 1: they have to flow and gravitation, gravitation, gravity, the pull

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Speaker 1: of gravity is factored into that quote unquote design. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's right, that makes perfect sense on Earth because you know,

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Speaker 1: you've got this heavy intercore of the Earth that is

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Speaker 1: pulling us toward it. Right that the gravity down is

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Speaker 1: so the fluid would flow down. But then you there,

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Speaker 1: you are in space, and what does it do? It

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Speaker 1: just flows up. So that is a huge problem actually,

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Speaker 1: and that's one of the reasons why, um, you do

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Speaker 1: have this muscle atrophy. And as you had noted earlier,

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Speaker 1: astronauts have to and crew members have to constantly work

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Speaker 1: out in order to try to keep the stasis in

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Speaker 1: their body. Yeah, there's not Basically, our skeleton is a

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Speaker 1: load bearing um structure, and if we if there's no gravity,

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Speaker 1: then there's not really any load to bear. So we

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Speaker 1: end up just constantly said constant atrophy of our muscle

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Speaker 1: uh and our skeleton system. Yeah, your muscles become dormant,

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Speaker 1: and your spine even begins to straighten because it doesn't

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Speaker 1: again have that gravity, um, that weight that it's fighting against.

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Speaker 1: So people tend to get taller. Innocence, Yeah, and then

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Speaker 1: of course you're rather disoriented. I mean, you get more

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Speaker 1: or less used to the environment. But here on Earth,

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Speaker 1: our brain receives information about the environment through visual cues,

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Speaker 1: the eyes, muscles and tendons. Um. You have a set

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Speaker 1: of sensors to detect liquid movement located in the inner ear,

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Speaker 1: and when you're in a weightless environment, it throws all

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Speaker 1: of this out of whack. So again, just the way

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Speaker 1: we've perceived the environment around us, we've evolved to proceed

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Speaker 1: a an environment with gravity that is an updown gravity,

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Speaker 1: right right, Um, So what I think is interesting about

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Speaker 1: that is you you talked about the vestibular system, which

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Speaker 1: is in the inner ear. It's organ way deep in

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Speaker 1: there and it's covered in thousands of tiny hair cells,

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Speaker 1: and then on top of these hair cells are tiny

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Speaker 1: little crystals that move and bend the hair cells, sending

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Speaker 1: information to the central nervous system to guide eye movements

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Speaker 1: and posture and balance. So if you don't have this

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Speaker 1: updown orientation, then all of a sudden, you don't have, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, a stable platform for this organ to work on.

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Speaker 1: And you began to get two different sets of data,

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Speaker 1: which caused something called space adaption syndrome, where you know,

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Speaker 1: there's nausea and vomiting. And of course I believe and

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Speaker 1: tell me if I'm right on this, this is something

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Speaker 1: that's just just happened in the first couple of days

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Speaker 1: of space flight, that your body does kind of even

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Speaker 1: itself out. But that's certainly a problem if you're gonna,

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Speaker 1: you know, puking for seventy two hours. Yeah, there's like

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Speaker 1: a whole series of phases one goes through on prolonged space,

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Speaker 1: well not really space journeys, but prolonged space in microgravity.

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Speaker 1: I have a blog post under somewhere I'll I'll be

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Speaker 1: linked to it in the in the blog post of

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Speaker 1: companies this podcast. But you end up basically going from

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Speaker 1: early on starting off with that, those feelings of nausea,

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Speaker 1: you're vomiting, um, you just feel all out of sorts,

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Speaker 1: and eventually you're reaching states where you're feeling rather euphoric,

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Speaker 1: and then there's some crankiness and just some and flash

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Speaker 1: once unless you're one of the few people that that

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Speaker 1: doesn't do that, the perfect astronaut. Uh. So we we

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Speaker 1: have all these things that can happen to the body

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Speaker 1: that will happen to the body in a in a

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Speaker 1: micro g environment, but we also have ways that we

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Speaker 1: try and combat it. Right. Uh. The big own of

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Speaker 1: course is exercise. Uh we're not we're not standing, we're

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Speaker 1: not walking, we're not we're not running around. So we

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Speaker 1: need to use those muscles. We have to use it

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Speaker 1: or lose it. So that's when you have things like

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Speaker 1: that like the cold Bear treadmill on I S S.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's it's let's get people on treadmill, let's

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Speaker 1: strap into a treadmill, and let's keep them moving. Let's

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Speaker 1: let's just keep the body active, uh, because it's I mean,

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Speaker 1: you can think of it in terms of say, say

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Speaker 1: someone's a powerlifter, they they can't take a year off

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Speaker 1: from training for powerlifting and then go back and expect

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Speaker 1: to lift gigantic weights. Right, you need to keep that

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Speaker 1: muscle tone up to do this abnormal activity. Well, your

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Speaker 1: body goes into the zero G and it's adapting, right,

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Speaker 1: it's saying, oh, well, we don't have to do that

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Speaker 1: work anymore. Uh, So you have to train for the

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Speaker 1: abnormal activity of daily life on earth. Yeah, there you go.

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Speaker 1: So that's a good way to try to combat it. Um.

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Speaker 1: And this is something I just wanted to say to

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Speaker 1: you that you know, for twenty three years we've had

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Speaker 1: human beings that have lived off Earth for periods of time.

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Speaker 1: So this is a lot of information that we have

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Speaker 1: about what's going on inside our bodies and also with

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Speaker 1: plants and other animals. Yeah. Yeah, we've we've put a

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Speaker 1: lot of thought into what happens when when people go

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Speaker 1: out there and they come back. We've studied them. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the Soviets did. They did a lot of interesting work too,

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Speaker 1: where they were answering some of like the early questions

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Speaker 1: like what happens if a man goes into space and

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Speaker 1: then a woman goes into space, and what if you know,

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Speaker 1: could could they could they even have have children? At

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Speaker 1: that point you know what I mean, so many questions. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we're raised early on and we're still answer during a

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Speaker 1: lot of the finer questions. Well, it's also leading us

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Speaker 1: to to look at their species like bears for instance,

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Speaker 1: to get those guys in space, you gotta get those

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Speaker 1: dudes in space. But more more to the point of

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Speaker 1: when they're hibernating, the fact that they don't have any

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Speaker 1: calcium loss, that their bones really strong. So you know,

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Speaker 1: we're studying their systems to try to figure out what

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Speaker 1: the magic is UM that we might be able to

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Speaker 1: that you're just getting out that we needed to get

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Speaker 1: grizzly bears in space, Well, we just do. We do. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Another thing that has been toyed around with UM it's

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Speaker 1: the use of exoskeletons UM. For instance, there was the

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Speaker 1: Russian Penguin suit back in the seventies which featured elastic

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Speaker 1: bands and pulleys UM to create the artificial force of

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Speaker 1: muscles and bones UM. And then there have been a

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Speaker 1: number of other suits have been that have been rolled

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Speaker 1: out and experimented with as well. And it's a really

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Speaker 1: interesting concept. You know, it's instead of an exoskeleton that

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Speaker 1: gives you superhuman strength, it gives you you have to

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Speaker 1: it gives you strength you have to struggle against. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's not trying to help you, it's workout. So

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Speaker 1: as I reach across this waitless environment, uh, and just

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Speaker 1: to grab my iPod or whatever that's floating in front

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Speaker 1: of me, the suit would actually make that more of

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Speaker 1: a chore than than micro gravity actually makes it. Um

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Speaker 1: So then that that is an interesting concept as well.

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Speaker 1: And both of these ideas show up in a little something.

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Speaker 1: I sent you a clip off earlier, and I'll i'll

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Speaker 1: clue this clip on the blog post that goes along

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Speaker 1: with this podcast. But there's a movie called The American

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Speaker 1: Astronaut by Corey mcabee. Came out several years ago. Really weird,

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Speaker 1: really fun flick, kind of US based musical, Western great

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Speaker 1: depression kind of a thing, very hard to descress, dustful

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Speaker 1: feeling to it, for sure. Yeah. Well there's there's a

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Speaker 1: scene where they encounter the silver Miners who are flying

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Speaker 1: around and under space in this barn shapes. It's like

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Speaker 1: it's a spaceship. It looks like a barn and they've

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Speaker 1: they have this weird thing where they're looking for this

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Speaker 1: source and this there's a star map and uh, they're

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Speaker 1: they're just as crazy as I'll get out because they've

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Speaker 1: been cooped up in these barns flying around in space.

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Speaker 1: Um totally waitless. So their bodies have become these distorted

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Speaker 1: things with giant swollen heads and long slender limbs and

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Speaker 1: uh and that they call it space punis in the

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Speaker 1: movie Get the Space PUNI. Yeah, And they're training one

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Speaker 1: of they have this one child is like the chosen

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Speaker 1: one to return to Earth to find this chart for them,

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Speaker 1: And so they've outfitted him in this body suit that

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Speaker 1: that has this kind of this kind of exoskeleton technology

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Speaker 1: that I'm talking about here, this penguin suit technology. The

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Speaker 1: idea being that this will train him up, and this

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Speaker 1: will make the child strong enough to sustain uh, the

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Speaker 1: Earth's gravitational pull. And yet and yet he's stupid, so

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Speaker 1: it doesn't work out. He's a good kid, But you

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Speaker 1: have to see the movie to find out how that goes.

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Speaker 1: But but I always found that that whole scenario interesting

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Speaker 1: because as silly as the film is, that actually ends

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Speaker 1: up tying into a number of interesting scientific questions. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's it's pretty great. It's very entertaining. Um,

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Speaker 1: all right, so let's talk about the space punis and animals. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so experiments on animals, that's uh and goes hand in

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Speaker 1: hand with space exploration and uh. And you know it

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Speaker 1: also allows us to do things like we're not gonna

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Speaker 1: be able to test when we certainly don't want to test, say,

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Speaker 1: human birth in space. We don't want to test. We

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Speaker 1: we can't test like longer life cycles of humans. So

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Speaker 1: we're we're very interested in seeing how various animals behave

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Speaker 1: And we've done this from the beginning, before we even

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Speaker 1: to put people in in um a spacecraft we launched

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Speaker 1: I think it was for seresis monkey, right, and then

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Speaker 1: a dog, and then various other animals insects, bears, no bears, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I mean it's it's really kind of surprising though,

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Speaker 1: because you look at some of these animals and some

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Speaker 1: adapt surprisingly well, and others that you think would would

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Speaker 1: just get along swimmingly um no fun intended don't don't

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Speaker 1: do quite as well as you would think. For instance,

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Speaker 1: they say that within five minutes, mice are floating around

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Speaker 1: in their living spaces, grooming themselves, eating, just carrying them

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Speaker 1: along like normal, whereas I can't help but imagine that

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Speaker 1: if I took my cat up there, Okay, would just

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Speaker 1: freak out the whole time. Oh yeah yeah. Um, fish

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Speaker 1: and tadpoles swimming loops rather than straight lines. There's just

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Speaker 1: no updown orientation here, which is interesting because you're they're

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Speaker 1: in a buoyant environment when we train, uh, we partially

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Speaker 1: train the astronauts in submerged environments to help them get

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Speaker 1: a handle on what's a weightless environment, what we like.

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Speaker 1: So so you would think things you think they wouldn't

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Speaker 1: they would adapt byther well, but it's not really the case.

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Speaker 1: Baby mammals have a hard time and space because they

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Speaker 1: normally huddle for warmth and space. Uh. And they are

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Speaker 1: usually going towards the nipple to to get milk. So

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Speaker 1: if you're floating away from the nipple, that makes it

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Speaker 1: difficulty traumatizing. That's a really horrifying image to imagine the

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Speaker 1: kitten floating away in the nipple. To see how many

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Speaker 1: times we can stay clotting away from the nipple. And um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: both birds and fish who can move three dimensionally in

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Speaker 1: their normal environments, um, they end up just going in

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Speaker 1: these loops. Um when they're when they're actually in a

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Speaker 1: micro g environment, so it just throws them off, even

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Speaker 1: though you would think a bird in a UH and

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Speaker 1: and a fish would do really well. Yeah. Orb spiders, Oh,

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Speaker 1: the orb spiders are pretty amazing. Now. They on you know,

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Speaker 1: on Earth, we've exquisite web designs, beautiful um you know,

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Speaker 1: very symmetrical, but as you would imagine in space, they

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Speaker 1: weave very wacky configurations. Again, they don't have some you know,

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Speaker 1: this access to to work off of UM and they

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Speaker 1: they're not anchored, so you do see some of the

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Speaker 1: similar actually reminded me of some of the studies of

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Speaker 1: hallucinogens and spiders and some of the strange configurations that

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Speaker 1: come out of that. What's interesting though, I was reading

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Speaker 1: about the one of the first spider investigations. This is

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Speaker 1: back in the nineteen three Skylab. They took two garden

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Speaker 1: cross spiders, which is a type of war weaver, up

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Speaker 1: and they let him do the thing and then uh.

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Speaker 1: And then more recently they did another experiment on the

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Speaker 1: I S s UH this speck in two does eight.

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Speaker 1: But in both experiments, the spiders initially built really distorted

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Speaker 1: crazy webs. But when within a few days the spiders,

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Speaker 1: they say, seem to adapt to microgravity and begin to

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Speaker 1: spend more symmetrical webs, so you still see a certain level,

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Speaker 1: you know, the spiders up there, the animals up there.

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Speaker 1: It gets its bearings and then it's been is able

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Speaker 1: to to behave with this new environment. It works. There's

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Speaker 1: also this idea to you that size matters. The larger

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Speaker 1: the thing that that's there, the human or the spider

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Speaker 1: or the bacteria, the better the chances of survival and adaptation. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then the spider, it does seem like it would

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Speaker 1: it would do particularly well because here's a creature with

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Speaker 1: multiple limbs, um, very dexterior spinning webs to move around.

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Speaker 1: Like if if you had to pick an animal that

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Speaker 1: would behave well in a in a weightless environment, you

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Speaker 1: think the spider would would be great, especially web building spiders. Indeed,

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Speaker 1: all right, let's talk plants, because I thought this was

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Speaker 1: really interesting. Um that it's not just that they want

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Speaker 1: to study um, you know the way that plants behave

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Speaker 1: in space. But there is this idea to you, there's

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Speaker 1: a psychological level for astronauts, for crew members that if

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Speaker 1: they can see a seedling, if they can see a

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Speaker 1: bit of green, um, that this is really helpful in

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Speaker 1: terms of grounding them and making feel a little bit

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Speaker 1: more like, Okay, here I am, you know, living in

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Speaker 1: you know, very sterile environment. And yes, and yet I

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Speaker 1: feel connected to the earth in some way. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: can't help me be reminded of Did you ever see

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Speaker 1: silent running sci fi film with Bruce Dearn in it

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Speaker 1: where he was he was in space and he had

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Speaker 1: these three little robots with him and he's he's caring

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Speaker 1: for these gardens, these massive biospheres in space. It's a

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Speaker 1: classic film, but better anyway, the idea that you're in space,

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Speaker 1: but then here are these natural green environments. There was

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Speaker 1: a film with a strong ecological message, but in watching

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Speaker 1: it you saw high tech space travel and green environments

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Speaker 1: together and it was very comforting. Um uh. The Danny

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Speaker 1: Boil movie Sunshine also had scenes where you see people

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Speaker 1: growing things and uh, and yeah, you can imagine going

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Speaker 1: a little seer crazy if you didn't have that around you.

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Speaker 1: But these movies also had artificial gravity. And when you

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Speaker 1: do not have a form of artificial gravity going along,

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Speaker 1: things get rather complicated because I mean, think of your plants,

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Speaker 1: I mean they're growing in soil. How does how does

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Speaker 1: this the soil nourish the plant? How does the plant

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Speaker 1: get water? Well? And you've got your window plant right,

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Speaker 1: so it's getting some you know, dright sunlight right there. Um,

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Speaker 1: you've got the soil and the water water droplets in

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Speaker 1: space floating away. Um. So yeah, I mean it's it's

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Speaker 1: a bit of a conundrum. Yeah, I mean you end

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Speaker 1: up with to depend more and more on hydroponic type

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Speaker 1: systems or um. Interesting, I saw you've seen these plants

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Speaker 1: that grow upside down, right, It's like an upside down planner.

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Speaker 1: You can maybe see something like that working working well

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Speaker 1: adapted because that too depends on gravity because you're putting

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Speaker 1: the water in the top of it. But yeah, but

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Speaker 1: I can imagine specialty planters might become popular. Well. University

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Speaker 1: of Arizona has a mock up of a giant pod

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Speaker 1: like greenhouse for space and US plants some pods and

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Speaker 1: basically they would supply half of the daily calories for

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Speaker 1: astronauts as well as all of their daily drinking water

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Speaker 1: and their oxygen. What kind of plants are we talking?

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Speaker 1: They didn't go into specifically what kind of plants because

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Speaker 1: you know, this is just a prototype phase right now.

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Speaker 1: Handfuls of algae. Right, Um, possible because actually the vegetation

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Speaker 1: we're looking at is is actually not land vegetation. Vegetation.

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Speaker 1: We're just looking at let's grow carrots in space. But

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Speaker 1: let's see what what we can grow that's nutritious that

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Speaker 1: actually might work well. And you it's something that was

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Speaker 1: really hardy, that didn't need a ton of sunlight, um, etcetera, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: But the idea here is, um, it's pretty cool because

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Speaker 1: you can recycle the nutrients in the water and uh.

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Speaker 1: But you know, as it always comes down to, it's

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Speaker 1: it's a matter of practicality because something like this has

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Speaker 1: a larger payload, it's harder for you to get it

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Speaker 1: up into space. Right. But it is the first step

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Speaker 1: to possibly creating this sort of crop like system. UM.

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Speaker 1: I also read that if we were to grow algile

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Speaker 1: mats in space, they would end up actually growing in

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Speaker 1: these three dimensional communities like almost like big cubes of

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Speaker 1: of of matter. It's interesting to think about that like

425
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: a scaffolding situation, or just that the structure themselves would

426
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 1: begin to scaffolding. But but it becomes becomes interesting to

427
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 1: imagine how we might tinker genetically with our vegetation to

428
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 1: maybe engineer the type of plant that would sort of

429
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: grow in floating clumps. Yeah yeah, I mean, lord, no

430
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: stuff grows on space on space stations, because I've read

431
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,199
Speaker 1: some of the accounts of how how grungy uh like,

432
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:11,120
Speaker 1: uh like the Soviet stations particularly, but would sometimes get

433
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: you're talking bathrooms here. Yeah, yeah, So so that that's

434
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,479
Speaker 1: the thing that a lot of microbial life, I mean,

435
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 1: it's particularly hardy, and and we'll be able to grow

436
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 1: both inside and outside potentially the spaceships. So all right, Well,

437
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break, and when we come back,

438
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 1: we'll talk about not only our own evolution here on life,

439
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: but the possibility of evolution humans evolving in space. All right,

440
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: we're back. Um experts seem to agree that life as

441
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 1: we know it is again very very much tied to

442
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 1: gravity if there was no I mean in a very

443
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 1: large in a very large sense. Gravitation is one of

444
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: the primary um uh stitches in the fabric of reality.

445
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: And if you take that out of the equation, things

446
00:23:58,320 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: tend to sort of fall apart. It becomes hard to

447
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: imagine the structure of the universe itself, much less this

448
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: little thing that happens to be growing on some of

449
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: some of the the orbs in this grand design. So

450
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: naturally gravity is important to life. Um. That being said,

451
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: life is pretty hardy. So uh, it seems that once

452
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: life has evolved on a world with gravity, it had

453
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,199
Speaker 1: had a chance to travel into a witless environment, it

454
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 1: would be able to thrive as long as the resources

455
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 1: were there. It would probably have to have some help.

456
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 1: It would probably have to have an intelligent work worker

457
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: architect there to make sure everything is getting water, that

458
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 1: thing manipulating the environment in a way that that would

459
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 1: nourish it. So creating an environment within an environment in space,

460
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 1: is that what you're talking about? Yeah? Um, And I

461
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: think that some of the clues that we have about

462
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 1: this this um ptation or this ability for us to

463
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: really um kind of more ourselves to environments is best

464
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 1: looked at in the context of when we kind of

465
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: crawled out of the sea, right, because that's where you

466
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 1: really see gravity come into play and how species were

467
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: formed or or became more and more complex and adapted. Yeah.

468
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 1: I mean it's you have this buoyant environment in in

469
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: the water and then if you're you're climbing out of

470
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: that suddenly you're gonna we're talking a lengthy process here,

471
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: and not just not just yesterday it was a dolphenomenal wolf.

472
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: You know, life moves at a small smaller pace than that,

473
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: but but still that's a huge change, and you could

474
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,919
Speaker 1: you could definitely um compare that change to the the

475
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: Earth to micro g or the micro g back to

476
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: Earth scenario, right, because if you're just crawling out and

477
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: you're you know that's you're some sort of creature who's

478
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: on all fours then and you're quite small, then you're

479
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 1: gonna have a different gravitational load than another creature that

480
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 1: can can actually get up on its hind legs and

481
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: become vertical and even larger. So you get this idea

482
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: that as as a result of all these different changes,

483
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 1: these directional changes, right horizontal versus vertical, you have moving

484
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: fluids within the organism and structures that help support this

485
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: load and and uh musculature that supports this load real quick.

486
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: In case study that the kind of that ties into

487
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 1: that snakes um snakes lood in various environments, and it's

488
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,719
Speaker 1: really interesting when you compare tree snakes to sea snakes.

489
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: Tree snakes spend most of their time either going up

490
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: or down trees. So they're they're in a they're in

491
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: a vertical alignment in a in a world full of gravity.

492
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 1: Sea snakes, on the other hand, they're swimming around in

493
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: this buoyant environment. Um. As a result, tree snakes have

494
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: their hearts located closer to their brain, and in experiments

495
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 1: are the most gravity resistant. Sea snakes, of all snakes,

496
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,719
Speaker 1: the least gravity resistant because their hearts further away from

497
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 1: their brain. And we have that same problem with our

498
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 1: astronauts in which the fluids are flowing upward. Right. So

499
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 1: for your tree snakes, it's perfectly fine because it's you know,

500
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: all the machinery is pretty close together. It's pretty interesting. Yeah,

501
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: Like I said, it's a little a little more light

502
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: on what we're talking about here, um in terms of

503
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: the effects of gravity and their lack of gravity on

504
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: an organism. Okay, so we've seen what has happened over

505
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 1: you know, from four billion years ago when it was

506
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: just you know, a bit of bacteria to us, you know,

507
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 1: emerging out of the sea and becoming a more and

508
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: more complex species and a larger species and therefore more

509
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: prone to the effects of gravity. Let's talk about this

510
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: really very cool idea of how we might evolve in space. Yeah,

511
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: I mean it's I mean cool, but also potentially horrific

512
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: because we're talking about people get a little uncomfortable when

513
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: you talk about fundamentally changing the human form and and

514
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 1: shifts and what it is to be human. And we

515
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: talked about that with with cyborgs. The idea that as

516
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: we continually augment ourselves to deal with new environments, to

517
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: what extent does that the humanize us? And then to

518
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: what extent do do we let environments change us? And

519
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: how does that alter the human argument? And yet you know,

520
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: we're we're kind of a migratory animal, right, Like this

521
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: is going to happen um and and I think according

522
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: to too many, it's vital to the long term survival

523
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: for human rights, right uh. And whether or not you

524
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: agree with that, still, you know you have this idea

525
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: of the human body adapting. I mean just think about

526
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: like the Neanderthal, right, a very different person I guess

527
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: you could say than than Homo sapien in terms of

528
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: this really heavy muscle liture. And we were you know,

529
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: much more successful because we didn't have to have all

530
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: of that that body weight in that mass, and we

531
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: didn't need quite as much energy. So when you start

532
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: to look out a hundred years, five hundred years, a

533
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: hundred thousand years from now, you know, what will the

534
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: human body look like if we be um space dwelling beings. Well,

535
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: it was interesting. I was reading this article The Impact

536
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: of Gravity and Life by Emily are More, a Holton's

537
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: NASA Research Center researcher, and she made the argument that

538
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: ET is basically a good or reasonable model of what

539
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: humans who continue to evolve in in a micro g

540
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: zero G environment might look like. Well, and you take

541
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: the leg situation right, I don't necessarily need legs of space. Yea,

542
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: So they're they're stumpy and barely usable. However, long skinny arms,

543
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: not a lot of muscles going on there. Um, you

544
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: know ET doesn't really have guns, but but video has

545
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: very long arms and and dexterious fingers for manipulating buttons.

546
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: Um kind of a swollen manatee like body and uh

547
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: in a giant head and fluids. Giant. Yeah, because you

548
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: get into issues of looking at at how bodies behave

549
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: in a buoyant and ironment. Look at look at mammals

550
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 1: that live in the ocean. Uh so some scientists, so

551
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: that you can you can see that as a potential

552
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: model of what what prolonged exposure to zero G might

553
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: might do to the human body. We've sort of become humanities,

554
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,479
Speaker 1: if you will, well in your posture, which change. Um,

555
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: they're there are all these different elements that you wonder

556
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: how your body might adapt. But still, of course life

557
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: is more than just this form. It is also the

558
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: the the the the continuing cycle of life and the

559
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: propagation of new species and new generations. So um, at

560
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: some point these e t s are going to have

561
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: to uh, well, they're gonna have to do it. Uh. Actually,

562
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: which there there has been a at least a wee

563
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: bit of research into that. There have been there there

564
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: have been you know, studies and papers where they argue

565
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: that you would need certain docking harness situations to really

566
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: make um, human intercourse possible in outer space. So I

567
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: don't know how et s do it, but they would,

568
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: they would, they would find a way of to talk

569
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: each other basically, probably be some sort of special space

570
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: furniture involved. But then what happens when the animal is

571
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: going to give birth? Right? Well, here's here's though. The

572
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: idea that before we can even get to et um

573
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: the et versions of ourselves, um, if we are to um,

574
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: you know, propagate out in space. That if we were

575
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: to do that, and we're to do colonize Mars, for instance,

576
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: then we would really have to make sure that there

577
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: would be a fairly large mix of genes expressed. What

578
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: am I? What am I saying here? Like, we don't

579
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: want a small population of that ends up? Um, you know,

580
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: basically you don't want an inbred colony of of people

581
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: with space penis. Right, that's gonna say. Then then you

582
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: just have the space penis. Um. So you know, you'd

583
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: want to make sure that there was enough genetic material

584
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: that essentially that people were returning to Earth and propagating

585
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: there and then again, um, maybe you'd have more and

586
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: more generations, more people colonizing that. You need diversity for

587
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,959
Speaker 1: any population to survive not only the ravages of some

588
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: sort of off world potentially hostile situation, but things as

589
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: simple as UH diseases, the emergence of a disease. If

590
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: you don't have enough gene genetic diversity, one illness could

591
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: wipe out everyone because everyone has the same weaknesses. Um,

592
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: just expressed over and over again. Well, and there's also

593
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: this idea too that if the body is now trying

594
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: to naturally select for living for long periods of time

595
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: in space, that this is going to play out in

596
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: increased infant mortality. So you're probably gonna see this because

597
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: the body is trying to figure itself out. UM. And

598
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: you know this, it may be sort of difficult to

599
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: to have UM children, at least at first in space. Again,

600
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: because we're trying to adapt and we we've conducted experiments

601
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: with animals UM giving birth in space or while I

602
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: see giving birth, for instance, frogs. We've looked at the

603
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: development of tadpoles in micro g and UH and there

604
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: are often complications. We don't see lungs developing like they should, etcetera. Well,

605
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: and this is from the article that you spoke of. UM.

606
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: She's actually talking about Native Indians and people of Tibet

607
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: who have independently evolved more efficient oxygen transport systems in

608
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: the blood. And she does say that they do sustain

609
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: higher death rates for infants born at altitudes and actually

610
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: mothers this is very interesting, mothers who although they evolved

611
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: to have an UH, there's really efficient oxygen transport, they

612
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: actually will descend to the more oxygen richer altitudes to

613
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: have children. So her idea is that you might have

614
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: to do the same thing. You might have to have

615
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: these sub orbital pods birthing pods essentially that you have

616
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: to drop down to in order to have a healthy,

617
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: successful birth, like like special nurse stations it existed lower orbits,

618
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, yeah, you could have like the I S.

619
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: S Nurtury Station at least starting out with right, um,

620
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: so there's it's possible, right, There's there's things that we

621
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: know about how we work here on Earth that we

622
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 1: can extrapolate in space. Yeah, and then of course there

623
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: are there are proposals on the table for how we

624
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:27,439
Speaker 1: could achieve we can achieve a an artificial gravity situation, right,

625
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: which we could do. We could and probably should do

626
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: a whole podcast just on those. But you could have

627
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: a situation where most of the space stations or ships

628
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: that this human population um are using our zero or

629
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: micro g. I think you would have a few that

630
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: are that are augmented to to spend and create a

631
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: centrifical uh artificial gravity, and and those would be the

632
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: places you would go to to actually have your child. Well,

633
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: and then there's this really interesting idea of let's say

634
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 1: there's been enough generations which intends gneration at some point

635
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: that have lived in space and it's still possible to

636
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: go back to Earth. At what point can you not

637
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:10,439
Speaker 1: return because you have adopted um like the the person

638
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: who's lived in New York for a decade, But right, right, right,

639
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: you just can't go back to it because we already

640
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: know that when astronauts reinter space they have tons of

641
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,399
Speaker 1: problems at the beginning of at least trying to recalibrate

642
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: their systems. You know, they all of a sudden, they

643
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: forget how gravity works. They're dropping things all the time

644
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: because everything has weight to it, they're feeling sick, and

645
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: then they've lost the bone mass, you know. Yeah, that's

646
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: an interesting question. Yeah, and so do you end up

647
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: with a scenario where you and where you have humans

648
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 1: that have become sort of their own subspecies out of

649
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: the void, you know, these these alsters and uh or

650
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: or or it becomes sort of it's it's easy to

651
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: imagine like a cast system where the the the humans

652
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: the subspecies that has you all to thrive and the

653
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: boy becomes sort of the like the the pilot class

654
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,439
Speaker 1: that that, you know, sort of like like the gold

655
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: navigators in in the Dune books. Okay, so I'm gonna

656
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: take it down to a bread level. Just sour dough.

657
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: Sour dough bread, you know, is created from a mother

658
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: dough and in fact, in San Francisco, Yeah kid, you not,

659
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,919
Speaker 1: the mother dough exists. So I've heard about various things

660
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: in fermentation where you have a mother and you use

661
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: that to create more. But I didn't know sour dough

662
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: was like that. Yeah, the mother does in San Francisco,

663
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: and there's one there's one mother like that. Well, I

664
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: don't know if if it's the mother do like the

665
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: alien queen, Let's say all the Sara dough in the

666
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: universe comes from this mother dough just for fun, No,

667
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: but um, but there's this idea of, you know, maybe

668
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: the other species or humans that have evolved more begin

669
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: to look at Earth and humans as this mother dough like, well,

670
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 1: if we need to get back to the genetic material,

671
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: we can. But they're just a bunch of doughs sitting

672
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: around in San Francisco. So this, but this brings to

673
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: mind an even more potentially a horrific scenario where original

674
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: humans are something that you keep stored away, frozen, but

675
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: when you have to return to it's it's something precious

676
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: to be to be to be kept locked away and

677
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: then uh some sort of cryostasis um and the and

678
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: while all these other new forms of human life continue

679
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: to thrive. Wow, so we become like a like a

680
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: museum of humans or tomb of humans. Yeah, we're just

681
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: a source code that is occasionally pulled out and augmented.

682
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: That's that's cheery enough. I'll go with that. Well, but

683
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: I mean that if the driving force is that you

684
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: want life to continue, and you want some form of

685
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 1: human life to continue in other worlds, then isn't worth

686
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 1: the bargain? I guess. I just you know, you don't

687
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 1: want to be relegated, not that we'll ever see that day,

688
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: but relegated to being like part of the museum stick, right,

689
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: you know, like they're there visiting us just to visit

690
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: the museum. Hey, kids, Look, well, on one hand, maybe

691
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: maybe we're in a museum. Maybe we're relegated to the

692
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 1: you know, we're like the mummy that a child looks

693
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: at and picks their nose doesn't realize saw awesome it is.

694
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: Or maybe we're worshiped like God's We're like we're the

695
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 1: the original, We're the were the source code, were the

696
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 1: seed and uh and and we're revered. M hm, I

697
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: feel doubtful about that. Well, someone will find out one day.

698
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 1: Al Right, Well, there's there's just a taste of some

699
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: of the science involved in in micro G zero g living, uh,

700
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,240
Speaker 1: the evolution of life beyond the planet. Uh. So hopefully

701
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: we just sort of uh got everyone's feet a little

702
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: more wet on that topic. And uh, I'll link out

703
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: with some of these sources too that we used in

704
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: the blog post to come to this episode. Well, let's

705
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: call over the robot here and look at some listeners.

706
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: All right, Well, we received a few different Um it's

707
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: a feedback from the episode the horror Um where we

708
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: talked about our fascination with horror fiction, horror movies and

709
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 1: what that means, how our brains work when we're watching

710
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: a scary movie, that kind of thing. So I'm going

711
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: to read a few of those here. Kyle writes in

712
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: and says, Robert, you had mentioned a VHS cover of

713
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: a poorly done puppet coming out of the Toilet on

714
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: your Horror podcast. I just wanted to write in and

715
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: second your childhood reaction to the Googley's VHS cover. I

716
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: distinctly remember seeing this VHS in many rental locations over

717
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 1: the course of my eighties nineties childhood. I have even

718
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: mentioned it in my I've even mentioned it to my

719
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: wife on a couple of occasions. Even as an adult,

720
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: I find myself every once in a while getting a

721
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: little creeped out when I'm alone in the house late

722
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: at night and i need to use the restaurant. I've

723
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 1: never seen the movie and probably never will, but I

724
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: thought it was funny to hear you mentioned it on

725
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:48,879
Speaker 1: the podcast. I wonder how many other people out there

726
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 1: carried this vaguely creepy image around in their head. Uh,

727
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: it's okay, I'm going to listen to the rest of

728
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: the podcast. Keep out the great work, Kyle Um. I

729
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: had to actually had to look up this this VHS

730
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: cover again, and I was reminded that the Googley on

731
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: the cover this horrible little green puppet with Faron. He's

732
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: also wearing suspenders for some unimaginable reason, which makes it

733
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: even more awful. Yeah, but still I mean, I'm glad

734
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: to hear that other uh, other people have had the

735
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: same experience with that that cover. Um, I just uh,

736
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 1: I'm about halfway through creating a blog post that I'm

737
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,439
Speaker 1: gonna it's gonna go live sometime today probably where I'm

738
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 1: just gonna go through ten different VHS horror covers from

739
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: the nineties video store that kind of warped me or

740
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: traumatized me as a child, because I really started to

741
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: think about it, and I'll often, you know, I'll look

742
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: up old these old VHS coveris and look at them

743
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: and kind of become a bit nostalgic. But it's really

744
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: interesting to look at them and think about, like, what

745
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: did that do to me? What kind of effect it

746
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: seeing bad as a child, um, you know have on me.

747
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: There's there's something magic able, magical about a about the

748
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: video stores of the eighties and ninety that we just

749
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: we don't have anymore. Well, it made you into the

750
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: wonderful note that you are today. Yeah, yeah, it did

751
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: in the whole generation. I mean, it's it's a I'll

752
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 1: get into this in the foot in the blog post, inmate,

753
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: But it was it was like this this chamber of

754
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: ideas you know, the video store, all these little boxes

755
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:23,359
Speaker 1: with these often amazing illustrations on the cover or provocative illustrations.

756
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 1: But but it wasn't like a library. The library you

757
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:26,839
Speaker 1: can pick up the book and you can instantly get

758
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: a taste of it. And uh. And if you go

759
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: on the internet anywhere, you can generally drinking about as

760
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: much of any given idea or film or whatever as

761
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,439
Speaker 1: you want, even if it's not out yet. You can

762
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: you can quench your thirst on anticipation and speculation and

763
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: and what and and source uh inspiration for that particular piece.

764
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: But back in that those those video stories, you didn't

765
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: you didn't have IMDb, you didn't have any of this

766
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,959
Speaker 1: you so if you saw this provocative bit of art there,

767
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: you you didn't have anything else to go on. And

768
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: to find out more, you would you would have to

769
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: see it. You would have to rent that. And if

770
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 1: you're a child, you you either didn't have the power

771
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: in many cases to rent it, or or even the

772
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: inclination or the desire because it looked frightening. Anyway, I'm

773
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:13,439
Speaker 1: going on and on, but um uh, thank you Kyle

774
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: for writing in. I'm glad, Like I said, I'm glad

775
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: to know that other people were horrified by goolies as well.

776
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: We also listened. I heard from a listener by name

777
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 1: of Lauren Lauren Rights, and it says, I just listen

778
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: to your Heart episode, and I quite enjoyed it. I've

779
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,879
Speaker 1: always had a fascination with other with others fascination with heart.

780
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,720
Speaker 1: I don't like horror movies myself, but I'm always interested

781
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 1: to hear why other people do. I wrote in to

782
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:35,720
Speaker 1: mention that I read Dune when I was about thirteen

783
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 1: or fourteen years old, and ever since I've recited his

784
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,919
Speaker 1: fear Mattra throughout my life. It began as a fan

785
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: girl ish, deliberate habit and turned into one I didn't

786
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,720
Speaker 1: notice that much when I did it. I especially respond

787
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: to the line fear as the mind killer, which really

788
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: rings true to me about how crippling fear can be

789
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: if you don't deal with it. I still recite it

790
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 1: to myself in times of stress and fear. It was

791
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: nice surprise to hear you guys mention it as it's

792
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: unintentionally becoming a deep part of my life. I love

793
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: the podcast. Keep it up, Lauren, there you go, um

794
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 1: and uh yeah, I have some more feedback from the

795
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: horror episode, but I'll wait to do that on another episode, Okay, Yeah,

796
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: And I do want to mention too that we got

797
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,280
Speaker 1: a second listener email from someone who is a clown

798
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 1: who uh took issue with talking about um clowns as

799
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: figures of figureheads of horror, and so I did want

800
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 1: to say that I hope that no clowns out there

801
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: are feeling bad about that. We certainly don't want to

802
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 1: disparage any wants profession if you are a clown um.

803
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: And the listener Mandy also said that she felt like

804
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: it was discounting actual, real phobias. That you know, if

805
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,320
Speaker 1: someone were to say that they had a fear of clowns,

806
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: that you know, that's not necessarily a real phobia that

807
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: that do exist, right, Um, So I did want to

808
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 1: say that we're not trying to discount that. And I

809
00:43:58,200 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 1: think she had also said that it was sort of

810
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: a and in for humor, the like hipster ish humor,

811
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 1: that if you bring up a clown is a standing

812
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,320
Speaker 1: for real humor. The reason why we brought up the clowner.

813
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 1: I brought up the clown um issue is because I

814
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,720
Speaker 1: really do think that Stephen King did such an amazing

815
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 1: job by using the clown as an example of um

816
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: our fear of this idea of of the unknown, of

817
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: how we're unknowable to ourselves, and that clowns essentially are

818
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: wearing these masks that are really confusing is about what

819
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,839
Speaker 1: their intents are. So it's not to to make fun

820
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: of clowns. I just want to mention that well. And

821
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, the thing about clowns too, scary clowns,

822
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,240
Speaker 1: it's like creepy dolls. You know. It's like the reverse

823
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 1: of benign violation, and it's gonna and it's gonna of course,

824
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 1: it's going to have a powerful effect on our imagination.

825
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: The idea that something seems innocent but it's actually evil

826
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: is u is a powerful idea and one that we

827
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: will always come back to, right And that's why I

828
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: think Stephen King just did such a great job with us.

829
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 1: You can really kind of see that in a lot

830
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 1: of people's imaginations. So while I can say that I

831
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,839
Speaker 1: am unsettled by clown imagery, um, I will say that

832
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that we don't understand how much joy

833
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: that some clowns bring to some people in the population,

834
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: and that's a great thing. The whole world loves a clown.

835
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: So hey, if you have something you would like to

836
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: share with us, be it related to the horrors or

837
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: joys of clown them, be it related to horror movies

838
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 1: and VHS covers. Be it related to gravity and the

839
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: lack of gravity, and the effects of these situations on

840
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: life as we understand it, let us know about it.

841
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: One quick way to get in touch with us, you

842
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 1: can find us on Facebook, where we are stuff to

843
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: Blow your Mind. You can like us there, you can

844
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: follow us uh, and you can interact with us in

845
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: a number of ways. And then you can also go

846
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: to Twitter where our handle is blow the Mind, and

847
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: you can always email us at blow the Mind at

848
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: Discovery dot com. Be sure to check out our new

849
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join How Staff Work

850
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 1: Staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities

851
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Speaker 1: of tomorrow. M