1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised. 2 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: I'm in the famous French Quarter in New Orleans, standing 3 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: on the shore of the Mississippi River with Tim Wakowski. 4 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: He's an elementary school teacher during the day, but at 5 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 1: night he's a tour guide with the New Orleans Ghost 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: Adventure Tours. He also plays saxophone. Tim loves telling stories 7 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: about the city's most famous criminals and its most notorious murderers. 8 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: So talk about a little bit about what you know 9 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: about crime in this city. 10 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 2: So crime is like very much in the bones of 11 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 2: New Orleans. That's a big part of it back early 12 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 2: eighteen hundred. So like this a whole area here, we 13 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 2: didn't used to have the levy, like the wall that 14 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 2: separates the river, and the ships are coming right up 15 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 2: to doc right here. So everybody on that next street 16 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 2: on Decatur Street is catering towards the sailors who are 17 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 2: coming in. So first thing that guys want after they 18 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 2: get back out from Cee is they want a woman 19 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 2: and they want a drink. So they're all dance halls. 20 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 2: And these are known for being like terribly seedy places, 21 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: Like there's so much robbery, so much chlamydia, so much 22 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 2: murder running up and down the streets that the police 23 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 2: just like wouldn't even come. 24 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 1: What's like a kind of a favorite story in history 25 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: for you. 26 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 2: So the one I was thinking about for tonight was 27 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 2: specifically the story of Mary Jane Bricktop Jackson. So I 28 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 2: thought that she originally got the name Bricktop because she 29 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 2: like to smacked people on top of the head with 30 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 2: a brick. Turns out she's just a red hat, pretty normal. 31 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 2: She did like to stab people, though, though we know 32 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 2: that she stabbed at least four and those are just 33 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 2: the times that she went to jail. She also carried 34 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 2: with her at all times this custom made knife, so 35 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 2: she would hold it in the palm of her hand 36 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 2: and would go out six inches one way things such 37 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 2: as the other way. And the legend is she could 38 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 2: just stand in one spot and then move her wrist 39 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 2: and just slash people's throats. 40 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, So in these stories does this river ever 41 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: play a part? I mean, are people dumped in the. 42 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's actually exactly what I thought about the river 43 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: for the spot. So great top Jackson. Right, She ends 44 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 2: up going with this guy named John Miller who she 45 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 2: had met he was her bailiff in jail, and so 46 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 2: after she gets out of jail four I think this 47 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 2: is the third time they hook up, and they start 48 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 2: running a little ring together, so he's the enforcer, she's 49 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 2: doing the work. And then one night they get into 50 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 2: a bit of a love or spat. I'm not one 51 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 2: hundred percent sure, but I would guess that there was 52 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 2: a good amount of drinking in there. So one thing 53 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 2: you should probably know about John Miller is that he 54 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 2: used to be a boxer until he lost his right 55 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 2: forearm in an accident. And so then rather than get 56 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 2: like a hook or a prosthetic, he decided to make 57 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 2: a really diesel life choice and got a ball and 58 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 2: chain implanted onto his arm. Yeah, no, this is true. 59 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 2: And so they get into a lover spat. They start 60 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 2: arguing and he goes to swing the ball at her, 61 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 2: so she snatches the ball out of midair, used the 62 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 2: momentum to throw him down to the ground, and that's 63 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,119 Speaker 2: when she pulls out that custom made knife, slashes his throat, 64 00:02:52,160 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 2: and then rolls his body right into the river. 65 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 1: New Orleans is a city that boasts outstanding food, fabulous music, 66 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: and wonderful universities. But it also has a difficult history, 67 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: one with more than three hundred years worth of murders. 68 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,239 Speaker 1: It's a town full of ghosts and specters that haunt 69 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: every inch of the French Quarter. And not all those 70 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: ghosts come from crimes that happened hundreds of years ago. 71 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: A recent article in The New York Times says that 72 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: for more than thirty years, Louisiana has had the nation's 73 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: highest murder rate. With that many deaths, it's no surprise 74 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: that the region has its own approach to honoring the dead. 75 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: Rather than holding somber private events, the city's famous jazz 76 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: funerals celebrate the dead with loud public burial services. They 77 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: are lively, they are fun, and they conflict with just 78 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: about any funeral service you've ever seen. Tim says that 79 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: jazz funerals are just perfect for New Orleans, a city 80 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: where people defy every force that tries to get them 81 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: to leave. 82 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 2: Living in New Orleans is almost like an act of 83 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 2: defiance in itself. It's like an act against God and 84 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 2: of nature to like live here, because like it floods. 85 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 2: There are hurricanes that come and wake out the city. 86 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 2: Even last week we had a tornado and devastated people's homes, 87 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 2: and yet still we're here, Still New Orleans is here. 88 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 2: And so I think that like kind of like the 89 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 2: celebration of the dead is like is honoring kind of 90 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 2: like that defiance. 91 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: The story of the Crawford family and their mysterious deaths 92 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: isn't featured in these New Orleans ghost tours, but maybe 93 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: they should be. And back in nineteen ten, it was 94 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: only a matter of time before the public would hear 95 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: their story how one family lost four members to an 96 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: enduring mystery that I've been trying to sort out. That 97 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: July of nineteen ten, the Crawfords were gathered inside their 98 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: large home on Chestnut Street. They were worrying about the 99 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: patriarch of the family, Walter Crawford, because he was in 100 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: so much pain and they were still mourning the death 101 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: of his daughter, Mary Agnes, who had died just three 102 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: weeks earlier. The fifty eight year old gripped his hips 103 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: as he moaned. Walter's four remaining daughters and his wife 104 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: tried to tend to him, but it was useless. Walter 105 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: was helpless for days. He had complained of having fatigue 106 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: and nausea and a loss of appetite. He had a 107 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,679 Speaker 1: metallic taste in his mouth. He seemed confused at times, 108 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: and always exhausted, as if he were outmatched in a 109 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: prize fight. Walter's twenty eight year old daughter, Annie brought 110 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: him something to drink. His condition wasn't improving, and it 111 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: seemed clear that it wouldn't improve without medical help. Finally, 112 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: the women became so concerned that Annie Crawford phoned a 113 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: doctor at the neighbor's house, just as she had from 114 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 1: Mary Agnes a few weeks earlier. Doctor Edward Bacon rushed over, 115 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: unzipped his medical bag, and examined mister Crawford, but his 116 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: body was already cold. Just as suddenly as his symptoms 117 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: had begun, they had ended. Walter Crawford died on July fifteenth, 118 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: nineteen ten, inside their home on Chestnut Street. This was 119 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: devastating for the Crawfords. Now two family members had died 120 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,559 Speaker 1: within three weeks of each other. Doctor Bacon surveyed Walter 121 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: Crawford's body. There were no external marks or bruises, no 122 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: signs of drama. This didn't appear to be a crime. 123 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 1: It was something else, But he needed to settle on 124 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: a cause of death. Doctor Bacon pulled the sheet over 125 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: mister Crawford and then he talked with the family. Doctor 126 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: Bacon considered Walter's symptoms. He had complained of feeling weak 127 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: and nauseous, he had refused food, he was vomiting, and 128 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: he was confused. Walter eventually went into a stupor, slipped 129 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: into a coma and died. Doctor Bacon concluded that Walter 130 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: Crawford died from natural causes, something called euremia poisoning. This 131 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: medical condition is a buildup of toxins in the patient's 132 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: blood because his kidneys have stopped filtering the toxins. Many times, 133 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: euremia poisoning is a sign of kidney disease. Modern medicine 134 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: would offer treatments like drugs or dialysis or a kidney transplant, 135 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: but in nineteen ten, they had not yet connected euremia 136 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: as a measurement of kidney functioning. If the coroner had 137 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: been alerted by doctor Bacon, he might have taken a 138 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,239 Speaker 1: closer look at Walter Crawford's body. He might have even 139 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: tested it for poison in the bloodstream, and if the 140 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: results were positive, the medical examiner might have called the police. 141 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: But any doctor searching for evidence of uremia poisoning would 142 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: have been at a disadvantage in nineteen ten. Modern physicians 143 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: can administer a simple test to look for the presence 144 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: of a molecule called creatine to confirm the kidney issue. 145 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: Even though a chemical test for creatine had been developed 146 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: in the late eighteen hundreds, it was cumbersome and complicated 147 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: and not standardized. So it's certainly possible that Walter Crawford 148 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 1: died from a common early nineteen hundreds disease, but it 149 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: was also likely that he was poisoned. That was also 150 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: the case with his daughter Mary Agnes. She might have 151 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: died from spinal meningitis, but murder was also probable, and 152 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: if Annie Crawford had poisoned them both, she had gotten 153 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 1: away with it. Throughout all of this, Annie held a 154 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,199 Speaker 1: cold reserve. She didn't cry, she didn't even seem bothered 155 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: by her father's death. Yet she was still close with 156 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: her sister Emma Crawford, so again she was capable of 157 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: having close relationships. Historian Terence Fitzmorris says that Walter Crawford 158 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: was certainly missed by the Crawford women, but neither he 159 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: nor his brother Robert were ever a dominant voice in 160 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: either of their households. Annie tried to control everyone. She 161 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: argued with her sisters and her aunt, and the men 162 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: stood by and said little. Later in this story, Annie's 163 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: uncle Robert said he mostly just paid attention to his 164 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: wife and no one else, and his brother seemed to 165 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: do the same. 166 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 3: So it was a very dysfunctional family, There's no question 167 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 3: of that. And I found that the men were without 168 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 3: really any say so in the matter. They took a 169 00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 3: back seat to everything. 170 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: Despite that, wouldn't you expect for Annie Crawford to mourn 171 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: the deaths of her older sister and her father, And 172 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: if she didn't, doesn't that suggest that she could have 173 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: killed them both? Was she exhibiting the callousness that I've 174 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,359 Speaker 1: talked about so much in stories about psychopaths or sociopaths? 175 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: You remember Edward Ruloff, the killer from our first season 176 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: of tenfold More Wicked and of my book All That 177 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,559 Speaker 1: Is Wicked. Edward showed no genuine remorse for the five 178 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: murders that he committed, including the murder of his own 179 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: infant daughter and his infant niece. Edward Ruloff feigned emotions 180 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: to manipulate others. But Annie literally showed no emotions except 181 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: with her sister Emma. There are fewer women with antisocial 182 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: personality disorder than men, about three to one, and women 183 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: with ASPD tend to be less violent than men. They're 184 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: just more manipulative. But remember Clara Phillips from season four 185 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: never discount a woman's ability to kill with coldness. But 186 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: back to the observation that Annie seemed detached from her family, 187 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: that doesn't always mean that something's wrong. What if she 188 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 1: were on the spectrum and didn't know how to identify 189 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: and then express those emotions. That's a possibility, but she 190 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: was close to Emma and she didn't seem to exhibit 191 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: other signs of autism. I know that everyone mourns differently. 192 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: It's difficult to be judgmental of how someone reacts to 193 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: the death or the murder of a family member, and 194 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: a good example of that is the wrongful conviction of 195 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: Michael Morton in Texas. In nineteen eighty six, Morton's wife 196 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: Christine was murdered by a stranger, and within a short time, 197 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: Michael was convicted of killing her, solely on circumstantial evidence. 198 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: When Michael Morton testified in nineteen eighty seven. He was 199 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: calm and emotionless on the stand. The jury noticed, and 200 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 1: it made the jurors uncomfortable, assumed that he was a 201 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,719 Speaker 1: sociopath because of his apathetic reaction. How could he not 202 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: weep over the death of his wife on the stand. 203 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: The jury convicted him, and Michael Morton spent almost twenty 204 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: five years in prison before DNA evidence exonerated him. So 205 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: keeping that in mind, I'm not quite ready to judge 206 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: Annie Crawford based solely on her lack of reaction during 207 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: these two deaths. She might not have had a personality disorder, 208 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: or she might not have been on the spectrum, or 209 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: she might not have simply been mad at her father 210 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: and her sister. It might not have been any of 211 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: those things. But if she did kill them, it seemed 212 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 1: likely to be for the money, the life insurance money 213 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: that she split with her sisters. They would now need 214 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: to pay for another funeral, and I think that finding 215 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 1: the family gravesite will be key. If it seems ornate 216 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: and expensive, then perhaps Annie did spend a lot of 217 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: money on the grave site, most of that insurance money. 218 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: Maybe money wouldn't turn out to be the motive. Now. 219 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: For the second time in one month, the Crawford family 220 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: held a funeral at Saint Stephen Catholic Church. This was 221 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: a standard event that all Catholic families were expected to 222 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: have when a loved one died if you. 223 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 3: Are a Catholic. Even in nineteen ten, eleven, and twelve, 224 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 3: the church is still pretty much a Trinitine church, where 225 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 3: the parish and the infrastructure of the church requires a mass, 226 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 3: it requires a sacred burial ground, it requires priests and 227 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 3: deacons and sexton's and the like. 228 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: Thank you, come with me. 229 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 4: I think I know where where. 230 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: My daughter and I are walking around Saint Patrick's Cemetery 231 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: number three in New Orleans. We're searching for the Crawford 232 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: grave site, and it's difficult because there's no real map 233 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: of the graves and the tombs, and some of the 234 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: tombs are tall enough that it's easy to lose each other. 235 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: Mere baby, Where are you? Where are you Saint Patrick's three? Yep, 236 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: I know, but I don't have a location. He's here 237 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: where he died. 238 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, So based on that, she said, there's kind 239 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 4: of no rhyme or reason for where they buried people. 240 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: My daughter and I talk a little bit about the 241 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: history of these older cemeteries. They call these city of 242 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: the dead, these types of cemeteries. 243 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 4: Above ground, these look. 244 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: Pretty old over here. 245 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 4: Do you want to look real quick see these real 246 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 4: big ones. I'm gonna take a picture, these really big ones. 247 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 4: I don't think the Crawfords could have afforded it. 248 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: For the second time in a month, a Crawford family 249 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: member was buried here in Saint Patrick Number three. In 250 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: nineteen ten, Walter's eldest daughter, Emma Leo, and her husband 251 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: Edward once again traveled from Texas to attend the services. 252 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: Once again, cemetery workers prepared the family plot for another 253 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: Crawford body. Walter would be buried there at Saint Patrick's 254 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: Cemetery with his daughter Mary Agnes. That's the grave site 255 00:15:54,720 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: my daughter and I are looking for. Has that been 256 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: Walter Crawford. I don't think it's gonna be big, So let's. 257 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 4: Look down here. 258 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: No burials in New Orleans are different than they are 259 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: in Texas, or Wisconsin or Washington State. Author Alan Gotrow 260 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: explains how they're different. In historic Saint Patrick's Cemetery. 261 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 5: The cemeteries, it's a square city block, but there's over 262 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 5: one hundred and fifty thousand people buried in there because 263 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 5: of the burial traditions that we go through, and one 264 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 5: of those things that we go through is they're above 265 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 5: the ground because you know, we're below sea level the 266 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 5: water table. You know, back in the old days, you know, 267 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 5: people would after a big, heavy rainstorm, people would go 268 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 5: by the cemetery and they'd see Grandma popping out the 269 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 5: ground waving to them. 270 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: As the water rose, so would the bodies. You could 271 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: see why people in the eighteen hundreds may have believed 272 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: that their loved ones were rising from the dead. There 273 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: are stories of family members tying string to a dead 274 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: person's hand and leaving the other end above ground to 275 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: determine if their relative had escaped in the night. 276 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 5: So they basically built these tombs above the ground. But 277 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 5: beneath the tombs are pits, and a year and a 278 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 5: day passes after a burial, and these shelves are pulled 279 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 5: out and the coffins drop into the pits and they disintegrate. 280 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: In the case of the Crawfords, the cemetery would wait 281 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: at least a year then gather the bones of the 282 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: last person who died and placed them in a bag. 283 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 1: They would then bury them again inside the same grave. 284 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: This would make room for another casket containing the most 285 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: recently deceased person, so each family member was pushed to 286 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: the side when a new relative would arrive. They all 287 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: remained in the same grave. After Walter Crawford's funeral, the 288 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 1: family tried to heal, but it was so difficult. The 289 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: compound grief was too much for Emma Mary. Agnes's death 290 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,360 Speaker 1: had been tragic she was so young, but Walter Crawford 291 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: was Emma's husband, and without him she seemed lost. As 292 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: historian Terence Fitzmorris mentioned earlier, Walter and Emma were both 293 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:23,439 Speaker 1: first generation Americans. Walter's parents were from Ireland, and Emma's 294 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: father was also Irish. Her maiden name was Styre, but 295 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: her mother was from France. Neither Emma or Walter went 296 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: to school, but according to the nineteen ten census, they 297 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: both knew how to read and write. They were raised 298 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: in Louisiana, and after they married in eighteen seventy seven, 299 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: they lived in several different cities in the state, but 300 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: they eventually settled in New Orleans and moved into a 301 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: large Victorian home on Chestnut Street in eighteen ninety two. 302 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: It was there that they raised their five daughters in 303 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: the same house where Walter Crawford and Mary Agnes had 304 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: both died. So suddenly Emma and Walter had been married 305 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: for thirty three years, and now Emma was fifty two 306 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: and a widow. The matriarch of the family grieved. Terrence 307 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 1: Fitzmorris says that Emma Crawford seemed inconsolable. Two tragedies in 308 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 1: less than three weeks were too much. 309 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 3: I think the mother really cracked up. She had lost 310 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 3: her daughter and a husband, and so the mother was 311 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 3: really in dire straits. 312 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,199 Speaker 1: Emma Crawford was clearly depressed by her husband's death. But 313 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 1: what were the options to treat mental health in the 314 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds that didn't involve institutions. There weren't many 315 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: talk therapy would have been unusual for people who weren't 316 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: patients in state run asylums or privately run sanitariums. Instead, 317 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: women presenting symptoms of depression or PTSD or bipolar disorder 318 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: were labeled as hysterical, like we talked about earlier. They 319 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: might have been institutional if they continued to act erratically 320 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 1: it was in Emma Crawford's best interest to suffer in silence. 321 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 1: If she couldn't, perhaps her brother in law, Robert Crawford 322 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 1: might decide to have her institutionalized. 323 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 6: So. 324 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: While Annie Crawford's father and sister had both died in 325 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: a short period of time, they were diagnosed with different 326 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: diseases by two different doctors. Mary Agnes had been afflicted 327 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 1: with meningitis, while Walter had euremia poisoning. There was little 328 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: reason to connect the two deaths, and even less reason 329 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,959 Speaker 1: to suspect murder. There were no autopsies, and both victims 330 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: were buried quickly in the family plot. Unexpected deaths and 331 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 1: rapidly moving diseases were not unusual in the early nineteen hundreds. 332 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 1: In nineteen ten, a man could expect to live to 333 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,640 Speaker 1: about age forty eight and a woman to age fifty two. 334 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: The top three causes of death were pneumonia, heart disease, 335 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: and tuberculosis, but new treatments for all three were emerging. 336 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: Fatal accidents, like with farm machinery were another leading cause 337 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: of death, even more common than cancer. Knowing all of that, 338 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: it made sense that Annie Crawford or another family member 339 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: had not been suspected of murder, and if a coroner 340 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: didn't examine either body, then a general practitioner might not 341 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 1: recognize the signs of an overdose. Poison expert doctor Neil 342 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: Bradbury tells me how coroners in the late eighteen hundreds 343 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: and early nineteen hundreds would have determined that a victim 344 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: died from morphine. 345 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 7: One of the key telltale signs of a person who 346 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 7: has died from a morphine overdose is that their pupils 347 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 7: in their eyes become very small pinpoint pupils. It's called 348 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,360 Speaker 7: and it's very indicative of morphine overdose. 349 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: Doctor Bradbury and author Deborah Blum tell me about an 350 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: eighteen ninety eight case that illustrates this. It's the story 351 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: of doctor Robert Buchanan and Anna Sutherland in New York City. 352 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 7: There was a case in New York in the late 353 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 7: eighteen hundreds of a doctor who had abandoned his wife 354 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 7: and taken up with a brothel owner and even had 355 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 7: her as the receptionist for his doctor's office at one point, 356 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 7: and naturally this didn't go down too well in the 357 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 7: upper society of New York at the time. 358 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: He started feeling shunned by his friends. 359 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 7: And so he decided it was time to get rid 360 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 7: of her, and indeed poison her with the morphine overdose. 361 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 7: But because he was a doctor, he knew that the 362 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 7: pinpoint pupils would be a dead giveaway, and he had 363 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 7: a way of getting round that. 364 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 6: When you take morphine, it causes your pupils to pinpoint, 365 00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 6: so you get that pinprit tiny shrunken pupil effect giveaway 366 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,360 Speaker 6: that you've been poisoned with morphine. 367 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: Doctor Buchanan was smart and a physician, so he used 368 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: that medical knowledge to try to get away with murder. 369 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,120 Speaker 7: And one of the ways that he got around it 370 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 7: was by putting drops of another poison, atropine, onto the eyes. 371 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 7: An atropine will cause the eyes to dilate, so there's 372 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 7: no telltale pinpoint signs. 373 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 6: Atropine enlarges your pupils out the doctor, and they put 374 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 6: the drops in your eyes to in large pupils. Right, 375 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 6: So she died of morphine, but then he dropped the 376 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 6: atropine in her. 377 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: Eyes, and clearly he didn't get away with it because 378 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: we now know the story, So how was he caught? 379 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 7: Unfortunately, he had bragged about this in several bars around 380 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 7: New York. And what's interesting is that when the case 381 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 7: came to trial, the prosecution brought a cat into the courtroom. 382 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. 383 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 7: They proceeded to kill the cat with a morphine overdose 384 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 7: and then put drops of atropine into the cat size, 385 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 7: pulled the cat size back and showed the jury that 386 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 7: the cat siyes were no longer pinpoint and as tragic 387 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 7: as it was for the cat, this is probably one 388 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 7: of the earliest examples of where forensic science was brought 389 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 7: into a criminal trial case in America, and eventually he 390 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 7: was found guilty, convicted, and sentenced to death in the 391 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 7: electric chair. 392 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 1: Morphine has always been a mystery to me. I didn't 393 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: know a lot about it before the story. Most of 394 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 1: the poisoners from the eighteen hundreds that I've studied used 395 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: arsenic or strychnine, not morphine. More modern cases that I've 396 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,959 Speaker 1: read about have involved antifreeze, which is sweet and odorless 397 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: because its main ingredient is ethylene glycol. It makes antifreeze 398 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: taste like sugar mixed with salt and vinegar, and before 399 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: you know, oh, your kidneys have shut down and then 400 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 1: their cyanide, which was used to contaminate tailanol capsules in 401 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties. I also read about a murder weapon 402 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: that I thought was unusual, benadryl. Now, very few people 403 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: die from an overdose of an antihistamine, especially if they 404 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 1: don't have a pre existing medical condition, but a medicine 405 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 1: like benadryl can be used as an accomplice to murder. 406 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,120 Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, Lourie Eisenberg went on a boat trip 407 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: with her husband Larry, on Lake Cordelaine in Idaho. She 408 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: had embezzled a half a million dollars from her job 409 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: at the North Idaho Housing Coalition, and Larry was about 410 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: to find out by reading it in a newspaper article 411 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: that would be printed the next day. His children say 412 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: that had he known about the embezzlement, he would have 413 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 1: certainly divorced her immediately, but he didn't know, and once 414 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: they were on the water alone, Laurie encouraged him to 415 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: drink a bottle of fruit juice that contained a large 416 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: amount of benadryl. Prosecutors say that once he became drowsy, 417 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: Laurie shoved her husband into the lake. At her sentencing, 418 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: hearing in twenty twenty one, Laurie Eisenberg refused to admit 419 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 1: that she killed Larry on purpose. She said that she 420 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: intended to take her own life because of the embezzlement accusations. 421 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: She claimed that Larry drank the juice mixed with benadryl 422 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: instead and then somehow ended up in the lake. Still, 423 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,479 Speaker 1: she addressed the court for forty five minutes, trying to 424 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: absolve herself from any wrongdoing. 425 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 8: Larry used to hate it when people said I'm sorry. 426 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 8: Is it instead of saying I'm sorry, you live your 427 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 8: life in a way where you don't have to say 428 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 8: I'm sorry. But that's all I can say, even though 429 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 8: it's only inadequate. All I can say is I'm so sorry. 430 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 8: I'm so sorry for everything I did, starting with the 431 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 8: investment that resulted in the lies, deceit, and ultimate betrayal 432 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 8: of the love and the trust of the people I love, 433 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 8: especially Larry. I want to state emphatically that I am 434 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 8: responsible for Larry's death. Absolutely. 435 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 1: Of course, she didn't explain why she waited two hours 436 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: to call nine one one. Laurie Eisenberg was sentenced to 437 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 1: life in prison for killing her husband. Another killer and 438 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: a long line of killers throughout history who have murdered 439 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 1: their spouses with the help of medicine or poison. We 440 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: just heard about Bendreau being used to help a murderer 441 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen, but it's definitely not the first time 442 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 1: a milder medicine has helped a murderer drown their victim. 443 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,719 Speaker 1: Doctor Neil Bradbury tells me about another interesting case, this 444 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: one in nineteen fifty seven involving an English murderer who 445 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: no longer wanted his pregnant wife, is. 446 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 7: Very analogous to this of ken Barlow. He was not 447 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 7: actually convicted of using insulin to kill his wife. He 448 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 7: was convicted of drowning her. But in the case with Benedrill, 449 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,919 Speaker 7: as you mentioned, her brain was so severely compromised she 450 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 7: was unconscious Bendrill, as we know, if you take too 451 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 7: much of it will cause you to sleep and become unconscious. 452 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: His wife, Elizabeth, was two months pregnant and feeling unwell. 453 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 1: She was taking a bath when she drowned. 454 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 7: And the question, certainly for ken Barala was did he 455 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 7: push his wife under the water in the bath when 456 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 7: she was suffering from a coma induced by insulin, which 457 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 7: would be very analogous to the story you just mentioned 458 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 7: of Benaedril. Benedril strictly was not the method of murder, 459 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 7: but the rendering of the individual unconscious before pushing them 460 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 7: overboard would be essentially the same thing, would just be 461 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 7: a tool to get them unconscious and then commit the murder. 462 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: Lorie Eisenberg's husband and Kim Barlow's wife were both obstacles, 463 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: so the killers removed those obstacles. That might seem like 464 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: an unsympathetic way of looking at it, but perhaps there's 465 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: insight from those cases that can help with the Crawford case. 466 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: Had Annie Crawford's father and sister presented her with obstacles 467 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: in nineteen ten. She didn't have a job, but her 468 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: family seemed to be supporting her financially. She wasn't paying 469 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: rent for living in the family home. Her mother, Emma Crawford, 470 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: used her husband's life insurance to pay for the house 471 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: and for living expenses. Annie didn't have any male suitors, 472 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: but she didn't seem concerned about that. Annie was an 473 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: odd woman for sure, and controlling her niece in law, 474 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: cecil Leo remembers how strangely Annie would act when she 475 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: eventually moved to Port Arthur to live with and Annie's 476 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: nephew Patrick. Remember that Annie's older sister, Emma had lived 477 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: in Port Arthur before she got married to Patrick Leo. 478 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: They would go on to have Cecil's husband, Patrick and 479 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: his two sisters. 480 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 9: They were real active in Saint Mary's Church. As a 481 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 9: matter of fact, mister Leo if Pat's father helped build 482 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 9: a church. He was a brick layer. And Emma missus 483 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 9: Leo was an Altar Society member, and they'd have meetings 484 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 9: and everything like that. Emma would get so aggravated because 485 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 9: she'd be having her little friends over for their meeting 486 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 9: and Annie would come in with a bucket of water 487 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 9: and a mop and go right between all of them, 488 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 9: you know, right in the middle of their meeting. And 489 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 9: then she'd go mop the hallway. Anyhow. It was like, well, 490 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 9: you don't have anything to do, but I'm cleaning house, so. 491 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: You are engaging in recreation when I'm doing. 492 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 9: Well, I'm doing all this work, you know. And I 493 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 9: remember Mary telling me that, and she said a mother 494 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 9: would get so aggravated. 495 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,959 Speaker 1: Yes, Annie was peculiar, but that didn't necessarily make her 496 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: a killer though, if there were just one more suspicious death, 497 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: she could be considered a serial killer. Now, as I 498 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: said earlier, our society's idea of a serial killer is 499 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: usually someone who picks victims and murders them for some 500 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: sort of abnormal psychological pleasure or thrill. But the FBI 501 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: says that a serial killer is someone who has killed 502 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: at least three victims with a cooling off period in between, 503 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: which would distinguish them from a mass murderer. If Annie 504 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: Crawford did kill her father and sister, and if she 505 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: killed any other family member, then she would technically be 506 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: considered a serial killer, just like a gang member might 507 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: technically be a serial killer if he or she killed 508 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: several people over a period of time. Throughout history, there 509 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: have been female killers who did fit that definition of 510 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: a serial killer perfectly. This particular category of killers has 511 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: fascinated society for centuries, including true crime writer Harold Scheckter. 512 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: He wrote a book about serial killer Bell Gunnis, a 513 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: notorious and brutal murderer. 514 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 10: You know, I've become very interested years ago in the 515 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 10: whole phenomenon of female serial murder time when you know, 516 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 10: the received wisdom was there was no such thing as 517 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 10: female serial murder. You know, I realize that there have 518 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 10: been many, many female serial killers. They just tend to 519 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 10: commit their crimes in different ways from male serial killers. 520 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 10: One of the things that attracted me to the Bell 521 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 10: Gunnist case to begin with. Generally speaking, most of the 522 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,959 Speaker 10: notorious female serial killers and are in the nineteenth century, 523 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 10: we're poisoners, right. 524 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: I know that this is an odd question, but is 525 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 1: death by poison more painful than death through other methods? 526 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 10: You know, their victims suffered more agony than Jack the Rippers. 527 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 10: Did you know? Jack the Ripper just asked his victim 528 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 10: was very, very swectly. All his atrocities were committed post mortem. 529 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 10: You know where some of these serial killers, like Jane Toppin, 530 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 10: you know, took this incredible perverse pleasure in prolonging the 531 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 10: suffering of the victims. 532 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: If Annie Crawford were a killer, it seemed unlikely that 533 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: she did it for pleasure. No one reported any real 534 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: animosity between Annie and her sister or her father. Let's 535 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: go back to money as a motive. Remember Mary Agnes 536 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: had life insurance, and Annie's father, Walter, had even more 537 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: life insurance as well as more money in his estate. 538 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: Annie could draw on her share from both policies if 539 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: she wanted to. Alan Gotrow offers some details about Walter's policy. 540 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:01,479 Speaker 5: Now, her father, Walter had a life insurance and his 541 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 5: total succession. Now remember this was a few years before. 542 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 5: That was one thousand dollars was the total succession. I'm 543 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 5: not not really sure how much it would be today. 544 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,240 Speaker 1: I figured that out. It's about thirty thousand dollars today. 545 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 1: Almost half of it was from life insurance from the 546 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 1: Metropolitan Life Insurance Company. The other half came from the 547 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,839 Speaker 1: ancient Order of the Druids, a fraternal organization similar to 548 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 1: the Freemasons, as a way to help with funeral expenses. 549 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: Walter Crawford was a member and his wife was the 550 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: sole beneficiary. Annie had to split the money between her 551 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 1: three remaining sisters and her mother Emma. So there was 552 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: one thousand dollars plus three hundred dollars from Mary Agnes's 553 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: life insurance. Annie had a stake in almost forty thousand 554 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 1: dollars in modern day money. Split five ways, less than 555 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars doesn't seem like enough of a motive, 556 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: except for one thing. Annie Crawford still hadn't secured a job, 557 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: but even then, her other sisters worked, so there was 558 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 1: still money coming into the Crawford house. At this point, 559 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: we still don't have enough evidence to say that Annie 560 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 1: Crawford definitely murdered her older sister and her father, but 561 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: Alan is fairly sure that she was guilty. When we 562 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 1: discussed potential motives, Alan kept returning to the antisocial personality 563 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 1: disorder theory, which is valid. 564 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 5: What is the motive? Is the motive? That is it 565 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 5: the money, because you know, if she wasn't getting that 566 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 5: much money from the deaths, So what does that leave 567 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 5: us with? Well, let's eliminate the impossible and see what's possible. 568 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 5: Could it be that she just truly enjoyed killing. 569 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 1: Yep, could be Yeah. 570 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 5: So I think you know, the motive is not secondary. 571 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 5: I just think that there's a couple of them there. 572 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 1: So you think this could be some kind of personality disorder, 573 00:35:58,560 --> 00:35:59,720 Speaker 1: not just greed right. 574 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 5: Well, dealing with true crime or historical crime, as I'm 575 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,799 Speaker 5: sure you are, you know, because you're experience data, I 576 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 5: would have to describe her as sociopathic, psychopathic, addictive personality. 577 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,799 Speaker 1: Addictive that's a key word in this story. But not 578 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: yet here's a clue. Addiction did affect the Crawford family 579 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 1: more than one member, and it might have been Annie. 580 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 1: She seemed distant a lot. Maybe addiction was why she 581 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,720 Speaker 1: seemed to collect a lot of drugs. Would she really 582 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: need that many pills to murder people in her family. 583 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: It's not hard to imagine that she might have had 584 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: an addiction, but that she was a functioning addict. In 585 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 1: July of nineteen ten, Emma Crawford grieved the loss of 586 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,799 Speaker 1: her husband. Her daughters wore black once again. Actually, they 587 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: never stopped wearing it from Mary Agnes's death the previous month. 588 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: Walter's brother Robert and Robert's wife Mary visited the family. 589 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: Annie continued to cook for everyone, and the Crawfords seemed 590 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 1: to be ready to begin healing. The sisters returned to 591 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: work well, just Elise, who had her sonography job at 592 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: the railway. Annie didn't have a job, and Gertrude was 593 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: still in school. At this point, Elise was the only breadwinner, 594 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 1: and she was so grief stricken over the two deaths 595 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: that she might not be able to continue her work. 596 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,800 Speaker 1: Her relationship with the grocer was unstable, and she secretly 597 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,840 Speaker 1: coped with all of that in a very bad way. 598 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: Over the next week or two, the Crawfords returned to 599 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 1: a normal routine. Gertrude went to school while Annie kept house, 600 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: but not for long, because about two weeks after Emma's husband, 601 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: Walter died, she started to feel awful. Her stomach ached, 602 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: she felt weak and nauseous. She had a metallic taste 603 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,440 Speaker 1: in her mouth. She was laying on her bed. Despite 604 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: Annie's attempts to offer her mother food and water, she 605 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: wasn't hungry or thirsty. The family felt frightened once again. 606 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: What was happening? It felt like an epidemic was sweeping 607 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: through their family. They thought the worst. If Emma Crawford 608 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 1: had the same illness that Walter had suffered from, then 609 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: she could slip into a coma and die very quickly. 610 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,760 Speaker 1: Annie rang a doctor, doctor P. W. Falls. He rushed 611 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,840 Speaker 1: to Emma's bedside. The fifty four year old was babbling, 612 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,760 Speaker 1: she made no sense, and then she went unconscious. Everyone 613 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 1: around Emma seemed concerned. Was there any medicine they could 614 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,760 Speaker 1: give her? They asked doctor Falls. No was the reply. 615 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: They needed to wait it out, just like they did 616 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,280 Speaker 1: with Mary Agnes, and just like they did with Walter. 617 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:59,720 Speaker 1: It was tortuous for everyone, especially Emma. No one seemed 618 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: to remember one small detail that would later become very important. 619 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 1: Emma Crawford had a life insurance policy, just like Mary 620 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,760 Speaker 1: Agnes and just like Walter. But I'm sure Annie Crawford 621 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:23,080 Speaker 1: remembered that. On the next episode of tenfold War wicked 622 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: on exactly right. 623 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 3: The lice had a child out of wedlock, and she 624 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 3: was just broken about the loss of her child given 625 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 3: up in childbirth and the loss of her sister in folly. 626 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 5: The people in the house were concerned for the young lady, 627 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 5: having lost the father and the younger sister due to 628 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 5: what was termed quote mysterious illnesses. 629 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 7: The thing that's hard to understand we try to think 630 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,839 Speaker 7: about the rationale for poisoners. I think a lot of 631 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,800 Speaker 7: the time we're just unable to do that because that 632 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,320 Speaker 7: isn't a rationale. We're trying to think about a rational 633 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 7: explanation for something that just isn't working. These people are 634 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 7: not thinking right. They do have mental health issues that 635 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 7: prevent them from thinking in in a rational way. 636 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,319 Speaker 1: If you love a good real ghost story, my new 637 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 1: audiobook original The Ghost Club is available for pre order 638 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,839 Speaker 1: now wherever audiobooks are sold. I can't wait to tell 639 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: you the real story about the world's most famous ghost hunter, 640 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 1: who was the head of the world's most famous ghost club, 641 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 1: and how he investigated England's most famous haunted house. Please 642 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 1: also check out my new book All That Is Wicked, 643 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,240 Speaker 1: which is based on the first season of Tenfold War Wicked. 644 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 1: This has been an exactly right tenfold war. Media production 645 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: producers Jason Whaling, Alexis Emirosi and Natalie Wrinn, sound designer 646 00:40:55,120 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: Eric Friend, composer Curtis Heath, artwork by Nick Togaeketive producers 647 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,640 Speaker 1: Georgia Hartstark, Karen Kilgariff and Daniel Kramer. Follow us on 648 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,240 Speaker 1: Instagram and Facebook at tenfold War Wicked and on Twitter 649 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,480 Speaker 1: at tenfold war And If you know of a historical 650 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 1: crime that could use some attention, especially if it happened 651 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 1: in your family, email us at info at Tenfoldwarwicked dot com.