Speaker 1: Call It what it Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Lettington,
Speaker 1: an iHeartRadio podcast. Well, hello, call it crew.
Speaker 2: I call it crew. We decided today's episode we're just
Speaker 2: gonna We're just gonna jump right in.
Speaker 1: We're gonna go into it. We got excited about this topic.
Speaker 2: I don't even care about your week.
Speaker 1: Just nope, don't care about your week. I mean, I
Speaker 1: hope it was good, but I don't care about what
Speaker 1: happened in it.
Speaker 2: Don't care, don't need to know. Yep, help the family goes.
Speaker 1: Just when this topic, I have to say, I've been
Speaker 1: sometimes I I just you know, with some with a
Speaker 1: close group of friends or family, I just sort of
Speaker 1: throw out some topics that we've been talking about talking about.
Speaker 1: And this one lit up a dinner table the other night.
Speaker 1: The idea of talking about are you ready for it?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Of course?
Speaker 1: Competition within friendships.
Speaker 2: Well, this one can get spicy, It can get real spicy.
Speaker 1: People have feelings. People also have feelings about competition in general,
Speaker 1: like where competition exists, and where is it healthy for
Speaker 1: competition to exist? And where is it not healthy, not helpful, unwanted?
Speaker 1: And friendship would be one of them.
Speaker 2: You know what's funny is my very first friendship memory
Speaker 2: is from elementary school and understanding that the dynamics between
Speaker 2: and I was young, like eight, understanding the dynamics of
Speaker 2: that friendship, and even though I would have had a
Speaker 2: word for it was so toxic at the time that
Speaker 2: I remember thinking, this is not a real friendship. This
Speaker 2: was my best friend in elementary school. And I remember
Speaker 2: every time that I got something good, I would be
Speaker 2: punished for it. She would silent treatment me and exclude me,
Speaker 2: and I was very, very confusing. And then the truth
Speaker 2: is that there are versions of this that still happen
Speaker 2: in adulthood. Yeah, have you had friends in your life
Speaker 2: that have been competitive with you that have actually ruined
Speaker 2: the friendship from being competitive soured?
Speaker 1: No? No. And during this during the talking about this subject,
Speaker 1: it was very interesting how differently people feel about it
Speaker 1: who have had real life experience with it. So, No,
Speaker 1: I have not. I have not had. I have not
Speaker 1: had friendships where competition was an aspect or part of
Speaker 1: the personality of our friendship. And it's funny because I
Speaker 1: am a competitive person. I like to do well. It's
Speaker 1: important to me. It's important to me to perform well.
Speaker 1: It's important for me to do well, to have studied,
Speaker 1: to have done the thing, to have done the research,
Speaker 1: to do the work. It's very important to me. And
Speaker 1: yet I have never in my life wanted to compare
Speaker 1: how I do on something or how well I do
Speaker 1: something or don't do something. I've never wanted to compare
Speaker 1: it to a friend. And I've not had friends compete
Speaker 1: with me in close friendship. Do I have friends and
Speaker 1: maybe we're you know, on the periphery or you know,
Speaker 1: silly about this that or the other, probably, but not
Speaker 1: in not not friendships that meant something to me.
Speaker 2: Now your well, I want to ask you one more
Speaker 2: question because you're very but I don't like to talk
Speaker 2: about it. But Jess is very, very very very best friend.
Speaker 2: Whatever is Sasha Alexander, who is a wonderful actress. You
Speaker 2: guys are similar ages you've even like talked about when
Speaker 2: you were younger, and I believe you met because you
Speaker 2: were auditioning against each other. Right, yeah, okay, So have
Speaker 2: you two been up against each other for the same
Speaker 2: role and has one of you ever gotten it over
Speaker 2: the other?
Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, because for those who don't know, I think
Speaker 1: that we have been. There are so many things about
Speaker 1: us that are similar, even like we absolutely look at
Speaker 1: we'd be sisters. No, no, we were, we sort of
Speaker 1: were not sort of we were not up for the
Speaker 1: same things, and so we were not. No, we were
Speaker 1: not in competition with each other for jobs.
Speaker 2: Also, I feel like at this point, you guys love
Speaker 2: each other so much. Yeah that if someone you would
Speaker 2: anybody else getting a job over you, That's when I
Speaker 2: feel like, you know you love someone because you're like,
Speaker 2: if I don't get it, I want you to get it. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely,
Speaker 2: Like if I don't, you better get it.
Speaker 1: Exactly. Oh, but definitely. I mean I also think that
Speaker 1: there's different you know, there's different points in your career
Speaker 1: where you're up or down. That's just having a career,
Speaker 1: you know, or having a long career. Is that sometimes
Speaker 1: you're doing well, sometimes you're not. And we've had different
Speaker 1: moments where she's been crushing it and I might not
Speaker 1: have been or you know, and I there's still just
Speaker 1: total complete allegiance to h friendship and connection and support
Speaker 1: and all that. No, never, you know, one time I
Speaker 1: was and now now I'm remembering, Okay, so one time
Speaker 1: I was against Oh, looks. See you look at the
Speaker 1: word I just chose interesting. This is how competition is born.
Speaker 1: I was up for the same role as Carrie Russell,
Speaker 1: and Carrie and I had just done a movie together
Speaker 1: in Calgary where we were in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 1: It was a western very I mean, no makeup, no fuss,
Speaker 1: no frills, early wake ups underneath like whirlybird rain machines.
Speaker 1: We were like frontier women. We were in it and
Speaker 1: I didn't know her before, and we became very fast
Speaker 1: friends and very close friends, and I just adore her.
Speaker 1: She's just one of the best. I love, love, love
Speaker 1: me some Carrie Russell, and so we do the show
Speaker 1: and we finish, and then we go back to She
Speaker 1: was living in New York, I was living in Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: and both of us went back to not having jobs,
Speaker 1: and she and I both were interested in doing theater,
Speaker 1: and not even having talked to each other, we both
Speaker 1: end up being up for this Neil Lebute play that's
Speaker 1: going to be at the lu Sale Lortel Theater in
Speaker 1: New York City, and we make it to you know,
Speaker 1: it's between she and I. We make it to the end,
Speaker 1: and so I call her. She calls me, however it is,
Speaker 1: and we know that we have to go to this
Speaker 1: casting office. We're just right after each other. She went first,
Speaker 1: I went second. But we decided that we were going
Speaker 1: to dinner that night no matter what. And it's my
Speaker 1: memory that we decided that whoever got the part had
Speaker 1: to pay for dinner.
Speaker 2: So that's cute. Did you find out that day?
Speaker 1: We actually did? We did, and I think we knew
Speaker 1: that we were going to find out, or manam, maybe
Speaker 1: we had a contingency plan. I don't know. But anyways,
Speaker 1: I get there thankfully she'd already gone in, but I
Speaker 1: heard it was one of those audition rooms where the
Speaker 1: walls were super thin and I could hear her whole audition,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh man, like pacing out in
Speaker 1: the hallway, trying not to you know, listen.
Speaker 2: Did you change if you heard it? And because she's
Speaker 2: a fantastic act if you heard it and you were like,
Speaker 2: this is amazing, is there anything that made you suddenly
Speaker 2: go well, I should have I should play it like
Speaker 2: that a little bit, just do exactly what she's doing.
Speaker 2: It's so similar. I need to change mine up. Yeah,
Speaker 2: did it throw you in any way?
Speaker 1: You remember this. It's at that point again you're not
Speaker 1: really in your body, your nerves of taking it, you're
Speaker 1: not processing. I just remember her being done and the
Speaker 1: character was really hot headed, so there's a lot of screaming,
Speaker 1: so I really did hear every single word. But I
Speaker 1: went in after her, and I was just proud of myself.
Speaker 1: I did I did what I came to do, and
Speaker 1: we got a phone call a couple I don't know,
Speaker 1: a little bit of time later and she got the part.
Speaker 1: And it's not to say I wasn't disappointed, because this
Speaker 1: is a big distinction, right, not feeling your feelings would
Speaker 1: not be honest. I was very disappointed. I really wanted
Speaker 1: that part, and she got the part. But I wasn't
Speaker 1: upset with her. I wasn't upset. Yeah, she got it.
Speaker 1: I was just disappointed that I didn't. And they felt very,
Speaker 1: very separate to me. So we absolutely then went out
Speaker 1: to dinner in downtown New York City and had a
Speaker 1: fantastic meal, and she went on to absolutely crush that show,
Speaker 1: and interestingly enough, just to file in the column of
Speaker 1: things actually really do work out since I say it
Speaker 1: so often, she opened up that show. It was a
Speaker 1: huge success. They extended the show and she couldn't do
Speaker 1: the extension, and the director called me and said, well,
Speaker 1: you do the second part of the show, and so
Speaker 1: we both got to do the show. It was one
Speaker 1: of my favorite jobs I've ever had in my whole life.
Speaker 1: It was so formative in so many ways. And I
Speaker 1: love that show, love that show. So yeah, but we
Speaker 1: were for each other. We were absolutely for each other.
Speaker 2: I think that what I hear a lot that. I mean,
Speaker 2: obviously I asked you about that because I feel like
Speaker 2: in our particular world, we are forced to go and
Speaker 2: the verbiage is up against each other. That is what
Speaker 2: you say, right, Yeah, But I hear a lot. Actually
Speaker 2: there's a lot of competitiveness between people within relationships, So
Speaker 2: your relationship versus mine. Am I getting engaged? Are you
Speaker 2: getting engaged now? Getting married around the same time? What
Speaker 2: are you doing with your babies? What's your wedding? Like?
Speaker 2: I hear that a lot. I have a couple friends
Speaker 2: that kind of got married around the same time as
Speaker 2: each other, and I don't even know if they were
Speaker 2: aware of it, but it felt like there was a
Speaker 2: little bit of one of thing, you know, bachelorette party,
Speaker 2: like what are they doing. I'm gonna do something different,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do something similar, but like kind of And
Speaker 2: so I don't know if it's like the time and
Speaker 2: you're you know that you're getting married. But I think
Speaker 2: that I've experienced that between friends. It's very tricky there,
Speaker 2: and you're happy that the friends are happy for each other,
Speaker 2: but I feel like you can get a little competitive
Speaker 2: and and in so many ways when you have a
Speaker 2: friend that is competitive with you, I think that it
Speaker 2: can really sour a friendship. Yeah, for sure, because then
Speaker 2: you start to hold when you're very aware of this.
Speaker 2: And again, this is what happened to me even back
Speaker 2: in elementary school. I started to be very aware of
Speaker 2: not sharing my wins or trying to sort of dull
Speaker 2: them in order to save that friendship. Yeah, and that
Speaker 2: will never work. It'll kill us breast. It might kill
Speaker 2: it slowly, but it'll kill a friendship.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, So Okay, I know what I think
Speaker 1: my answer is. But this is something that came up,
Speaker 1: and I think that it's a really deciding factor in
Speaker 1: whether people feel competitive or not. Exactly what you were
Speaker 1: just saying, which is like relationships, because I mean, let's
Speaker 1: be honest, you can't control when someone gets engaged or
Speaker 1: when they don't, or when they get pregnant or when
Speaker 1: they don't, or if they make money or they don't.
Speaker 1: These are things that are completely outside of you know,
Speaker 1: your power in any way, shape or form. But what
Speaker 1: I think is interesting is that when you have someone,
Speaker 1: I think mindset matters. I think that people who experience
Speaker 1: the scarcity mindset like they often feel they don't have enough,
Speaker 1: or they wish they had more, or the world doesn't
Speaker 1: treat them favorably, or it's just another day in which
Speaker 1: they don't get what they want. If they don't feel confident,
Speaker 1: if they don't feel enough, if they don't feel worthy,
Speaker 1: if they don't feel like they have that sense of belonging,
Speaker 1: they in my observation, become competitive. The people who feel
Speaker 1: like they do have enough, that they do feel confident,
Speaker 1: that they're exactly where they're supposed to be, that they're
Speaker 1: in the relationship that they want, that they work for.
Speaker 1: I don't find to be as competitive.
Speaker 2: No, But I will say that what we're dealing with
Speaker 2: now that me and you did not deal with growing up,
Speaker 2: and I think it's so hard, is that social media
Speaker 2: feels like it's set up to be competitive. It almost
Speaker 2: feels like the algorithm is I have this, what do
Speaker 2: you have?
Speaker 1: Yeah? This?
Speaker 2: What do I have?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: So even though you love your friend, now they're post
Speaker 2: now it's like they're posting the picture of the giant
Speaker 2: diamond on the hand or the new job. And now
Speaker 2: I get to travel and and even I find myself
Speaker 2: people I don't know. I'm like, oh man, I want
Speaker 2: to yes, where are you? I don't even know them.
Speaker 2: I don't care.
Speaker 1: I'm fine.
Speaker 2: You were like, wait would they have that? I need
Speaker 2: that necklace?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I need that.
Speaker 1: Wait until I.
Speaker 2: Get that, you're so and it's it's we're being fed competition.
Speaker 2: You're so right. So when you're following your friends, it's
Speaker 2: like the algorithms like compete, compete, compete, can be post compete,
Speaker 2: who's winning, who's losing, Who's who has this? Who is that?
Speaker 2: And just it sucks and we didn't we didn't grow
Speaker 2: up with that.
Speaker 1: But again, I mean, okay, okay, I see that completely.
Speaker 1: I experienced that more with total strangers. So I remember, no,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to fact check here because I don't
Speaker 1: you know me, I don't have the names that comes
Speaker 1: straight to the tip of the tongue. So it's golden
Speaker 1: globes time I'm watching it. Taylor Swift is there.
Speaker 2: Obviously she has my attention, and obviously.
Speaker 1: Kelly Tellor, Miles Teller's wife is I don't know, and
Speaker 1: maybe in the pictures with her they came together somehow.
Speaker 1: There's there's Kelly Teller, and I had not known who
Speaker 1: she was until that moment. I go to Instagram because
Speaker 1: I'm like, Wow.
Speaker 2: She's beautiful.
Speaker 1: So who is she?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Competitive where why?
Speaker 4: I was like, I'm part of the circle and I'm
Speaker 4: wondering who she's getting close to exactly I need to know.
Speaker 4: So cut to and by the way, it's funny because
Speaker 4: I was explaining this to my daughters because they were
Speaker 4: saying to me, you know, another case for Instagram that
Speaker 4: we want to have Instagram blah blah blah blah. I said, no, no,
Speaker 4: this is why you cannot, this is why it's so dangerous.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I go looking up Kelly Teller and I spend
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes on Instagram, a deep dive into Kelly tell
Speaker 1: her life, and by the end of this fifteen minute dive,
Speaker 1: I have convinced myself that everything I have is nothing
Speaker 1: compared to what Kelly tell her has. I am no amazing,
Speaker 1: I'm not even I'm not even kind of cute. I
Speaker 1: don't go on any vacations. I don't know I was
Speaker 1: on vacation. By the way, Kelly brings beautiful clothes on vacation.
Speaker 1: I just want to shout out, Kelly, you're crushing it.
Speaker 1: You're doing vacation very well. Yeah, she's worthy of a
Speaker 1: deep dive all of it. I was just convinced of it,
Speaker 1: and only because I don't know because other people have
Speaker 1: told me this or I've learned this lesson once I
Speaker 1: unplugged from the Instagram machine, once I've unplugged from the matrix. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I woke myself up and slapped myself around a
Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah, did I come back to No, no, no, no, No,
Speaker 1: Kelly can have all that Kelly has and be awesome,
Speaker 1: and so can I. Yeah, when Kelly has has nothing
Speaker 1: to do with what.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, one hundred percent. But this is what I'm
Speaker 2: saying with the competition can competitive algorithm feed He's not
Speaker 2: helping these friendships.
Speaker 1: When you're talking about competition in friendships where someone might
Speaker 1: be feeling like they're doing better or might be perceived
Speaker 1: of as doing better, and someone else might be struggling.
Speaker 1: I think it's important to remember the whole two things
Speaker 1: can be true thing, yes, which is that your friend
Speaker 1: can be doing really well and you can be really
Speaker 1: happy for them, and your life can be challenging and
Speaker 1: you can be disappointed with where you're at. They don't
Speaker 1: cancel each other out. And when you're in a strong friendship,
Speaker 1: you can say that to a friend like, I'm so
Speaker 1: excited for you. I'm so excited you just got engaged.
Speaker 1: I am so excited. I love your person. Your person
Speaker 1: is great for you. I see a very happy life ahead.
Speaker 1: There's me so many exciting things that you start planning,
Speaker 1: and I'm not there yet. So my feelings about where
Speaker 1: I am will sometimes creep into things. And I want
Speaker 1: you to just know that that's where I'm at and
Speaker 1: it doesn't have anything to do with you. So it
Speaker 1: might come up and I and I don't want it to.
Speaker 1: I want you to. I want to be in conversation
Speaker 1: with you about it because I don't want you to
Speaker 1: ever perceive my feelings about where I'm at as how
Speaker 1: I feel about where you're at. It doesn't take away
Speaker 1: from my happiness for you. It doesn't know take away
Speaker 1: from how awesome it is that what's happening for you
Speaker 1: is happening. It just is where I'm at, and I
Speaker 1: need to be able to have the two things be true,
Speaker 1: which is that I'm super happy for you and I'm
Speaker 1: having a hard time.
Speaker 2: I think that's so amazing, by the way, I would
Speaker 2: appreciate that in a friendship so much more than someone
Speaker 2: not even having that conversation with me, even if it's
Speaker 2: a hard conversation and just swallowing those feelings, because if
Speaker 2: I love you, I want to know that too. I
Speaker 2: want to know, like, she's feeling not great right now,
Speaker 2: she's feeling insecure about shit.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that communication is what makes friendships really
Speaker 2: solid and beautiful, and because, by the way, at some
Speaker 2: point it'll flip. It always does, it always does. And
Speaker 2: then you've had that, You've opened up the door to
Speaker 2: have that kind of correspondence with your buddy and you
Speaker 2: can be like, you know what, I feel kind of
Speaker 2: shitty right now too. I'm feeling this way now, and
Speaker 2: you have a baby and I'm trying and I love it,
Speaker 2: but I'm you know it's hard for me. I love you.
Speaker 2: I just want you to know that that's where those
Speaker 2: feelings are coming from.
Speaker 1: Yes, especially especially within I do think female to female
Speaker 1: friendships because there's this really old and gross idea that
Speaker 1: women should be in competition with women more than anything,
Speaker 1: or that there is this idea that because I'm a woman,
Speaker 1: I'm going to be competitive with another woman for the
Speaker 1: things that she has or doesn't have. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I think it happens a lot
Speaker 1: in It can happen in friendship. I think it happens
Speaker 1: a lot in business and in work. Right, Like when
Speaker 1: you hear a lot of people say, like when a
Speaker 1: woman's really successful, that you know she might have a
Speaker 1: harder time in friendships because of her success, Like that,
Speaker 1: how awesome is it to have a friend who's successful?
Speaker 1: How awesome is it to be able to be with
Speaker 1: someone who's excited about what they do? How hopefully that
Speaker 1: would be contagious. Hopefully whatever she's doing right that's getting
Speaker 1: her in that position is going to row off on me,
Speaker 1: is going to be inspiring to me, is going to
Speaker 1: motivate me, is going to make me understand that absolutely
Speaker 1: there's only twenty four hours in a day, but somehow
Speaker 1: she's figuring out a twenty fifth. I want your secrets,
Speaker 1: you know, like, like I think that that is, you know,
Speaker 1: ultimately exactly the best thing that can come from friendship
Speaker 1: is that kind of is that kind of motivation and
Speaker 1: that inspiration. And I get really really irritated and tired
Speaker 1: of hearing people try to say things about women that
Speaker 1: are like that we're in competition with each other or
Speaker 1: that we want to take each other down. I just
Speaker 1: think that that's just fucking nuts.
Speaker 2: It is crazy, But I think it comes from that place.
Speaker 2: And I know people talk about the seat of the table,
Speaker 2: a seat at the table, but I think that we
Speaker 2: have been told that there's like one or two seats
Speaker 2: at the table for women in scarcity, and so it's like, well,
Speaker 2: she got the seat, is our seat left? And that's bullshit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna build out that table.
Speaker 2: You can have all the injured, I mean exactly.
Speaker 1: And it's it's that zero sum game mindset. It's that
Speaker 1: there's a winner and a loser, that someone wants the
Speaker 1: place at the table, so there's no room for anyone else. Well,
Speaker 1: guess what news alert getting that seat at the table
Speaker 1: might mean that that person can make room for another
Speaker 1: chair to come up to the table. Maybe there's gonna
Speaker 1: need to be company there, there's gonna need to be
Speaker 1: perspective there, there's gonna need to be understanding and again community,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not I find it so upsetting when
Speaker 1: people get into that one up, one down mindset where
Speaker 1: it's like I I like one person's above and one
Speaker 1: person's below. It's like, no, we are all in relationship
Speaker 1: with each other. And it may certainly be you know,
Speaker 1: a journey, but you're all going to go up and
Speaker 1: you're all going to go down, and the way that
Speaker 1: you weather that is super super important. Yeah, by the way,
Speaker 1: I was a big fan. Also, just just again in competition,
Speaker 1: it just reminded me of something I do remember making.
Speaker 1: I actually made a couple of friends in audition waiting rooms.
Speaker 1: But I remember one time there was a part that
Speaker 1: I didn't get and I did not know the girl
Speaker 1: who got it, but I actually made a point. We
Speaker 1: had a friend in common. I made a point of
Speaker 1: reaching out and congratulating her and we ended up becoming friends.
Speaker 1: And I think, again, like that's it's sometimes And it
Speaker 1: actually took away my bad feeling. I didn't feel as
Speaker 1: bad about not getting it when I am becoming friends
Speaker 1: with her. I was actually happy for her. So I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's worth anything.
Speaker 2: Okay, is there such thing as a healthy competition between friends?
Speaker 2: I'm going to be honest, and I think no.
Speaker 1: I said no too. I said no too. I don't
Speaker 1: think so either. I think there's there's a there's a
Speaker 1: time and place for competition. It's not in friendship. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna actually be as bold as to
Speaker 1: say just that there is there is a place for competition,
Speaker 1: but it's not in friendship. And if you feel that
Speaker 1: there is, simply I think it's pretty simple.
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 1: I think it's actually I don't always think that it is.
Speaker 1: You know me, she's gray, but I think that this
Speaker 1: one's pretty simple. Okay. So Heather has written in and
Speaker 1: she says, my best friend of fifteen years and I
Speaker 1: both had babies around the same time. She has her
Speaker 1: baby in competition with mine. Every time I tell her
Speaker 1: my baby did something, she one ups my baby. I
Speaker 1: don't want to throw away this friendship, but it's making
Speaker 1: me mental, and I don't want our kids to grow
Speaker 1: up competing. Help. Oh, it's serious talking.
Speaker 2: Oh, this is hard, and the tract is my My
Speaker 2: immediate instinct is that her friend is insecure. You know again,
Speaker 2: scarcity completely comes from insecurity. But that's difficult.
Speaker 1: Well, that's why I'm saying, serious talk time. You gotta
Speaker 1: have a serious talk. You gotta do you get it?
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's a we gotta sit down.
Speaker 1: I love you to the ends of the earth. Fifteen
Speaker 1: years of friendship. I could not love you more. We
Speaker 1: are so lucky that we get to have children at
Speaker 1: the same time, and we get to experience this and
Speaker 1: be together in this, and I think that things have
Speaker 1: gone a little sideways, and I want to kind of
Speaker 1: hit the reset button. I love the reset button, you
Speaker 1: know I do. I want to hit the resetton. And
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about what my baby does
Speaker 1: in comparison to your baby, or vice versa. I want
Speaker 1: for us to bring our experiences to each other, and
Speaker 1: I want to talk about them. But I don't want
Speaker 1: to feel like it's a competition. I want to feel
Speaker 1: like we're just in it together. I think you can
Speaker 1: name it. I think you name it.
Speaker 2: I think you do. Here's the response, though, to that,
Speaker 2: the response, this is how I would play this conversation
Speaker 2: in my head. The response, though, is you're saying what
Speaker 2: your baby did, and I'm just saying what my baby did,
Speaker 2: and you're taking it that way, and so it gets complicated.
Speaker 1: Well, but that's when you just have to say, this
Speaker 1: is how it feels to me, because no one can
Speaker 1: ask with how it feels. It feels to me like competition.
Speaker 2: And I think that you can even say to soften
Speaker 2: it a little bit. I don't think you're meaning to
Speaker 2: do this. Yeah, And because I know you love me,
Speaker 2: I know you love my baby. When I'm talking about
Speaker 2: my baby, sometimes I just want to talk about the
Speaker 2: baby and it not necessarily feel a little bit competitive.
Speaker 2: And sometimes I don't think you're realizing it, or it
Speaker 2: feels to me like it gets a little competitive. I
Speaker 2: just wanted to be so careful of that because I
Speaker 2: think it can, you know, not help friendships. I mean, listen,
Speaker 2: she's worried about the babies growing up together, and you know,
Speaker 2: now they're on sports teams or now they're in school together,
Speaker 2: and it's like, well, great, did your baby git get
Speaker 2: And I understand that that's really hard. I have to
Speaker 2: say that when I first had my Hayden, I do
Speaker 2: not feel this way about Lucas. But you're you're given
Speaker 2: all the milestones when it's your first baby, right and
Speaker 2: you I was paranoid about the milestones, and so it
Speaker 2: wasn't even coming from a place of competition. I just
Speaker 2: needed to hear that my baby was like doing okay.
Speaker 2: So it's like when did your baby talk? When did
Speaker 2: your baby walk when? And so it may not even
Speaker 2: be coming from a place of competition. It may just
Speaker 2: be her talking out loud, reaffirming that her baby's also
Speaker 2: on the right track.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: It's hard. I mean by the way your hormones are crashing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's a lot. But I think if you guys
Speaker 2: have been best friends with this song, you're able to
Speaker 2: have this conversation and you bring it up because the
Speaker 2: worst thing you can do in a friendship is letifester
Speaker 2: because then explodes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, I don't think you can misstep when
Speaker 1: you have that much history, And I think that there's
Speaker 1: sometimes we just have to go headlong into it again
Speaker 1: the only way that goes through and you just name
Speaker 1: it and say like this is how I feel and
Speaker 1: that might be wild to hear, and I'm sure it
Speaker 1: might also, you know, help you understand how I'm feeling.
Speaker 2: So on the subject of competing, because it really does happen.
Speaker 2: And by the way, I don't know I really are friends.
Speaker 2: I don't know. They listed the ten signs Jessica that
Speaker 2: your friend is secretly competing with you, and I'm going
Speaker 2: to read some of them. They seem to delight in
Speaker 2: your misfortune. No, well that's that's not a sign. That's
Speaker 2: a bye. That's a goodbye. They copy your every move,
Speaker 2: I mean we like they've skinned you, they're wearing you.
Speaker 2: Like how extreme is this single white female? Because by
Speaker 2: the way, anytime I see Jessica, I want to steal
Speaker 2: all of her everything and all copy it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I won your hey, I mean again, Kelly Teller,
Speaker 1: you're you're my real life Kelly Teller.
Speaker 2: I'll send it to you in the meg. Yes, they
Speaker 2: don't celebrate your victories. Not a friendship. Get rid of it.
Speaker 1: Go through this list again, because I have to say,
Speaker 1: this list is really just like the list, Okay not
Speaker 1: this is how you know that they suck.
Speaker 2: Just how you know they suck? Ready, they downplay your accomplishments.
Speaker 2: They try to one up you, they brag in your presence,
Speaker 2: they try to keep tabs on you. This is actually
Speaker 2: a stalking situation. They attempt to sabotage your success, They
Speaker 2: dwell on the negative aspects of your life. And the
Speaker 2: last thing is they kill you. I'm kidding. The last
Speaker 2: thing is they try to discredit you in front of
Speaker 2: other people. Well, I think the problem with this article
Speaker 2: is that they said ten signs your friend. This is
Speaker 2: not a friend, this is a psychopath. This is a psychopath,
Speaker 2: and you need a restraining order. Yeah, anyway, Sorry, moving on.
Speaker 2: That was not helpful.
Speaker 1: No, that was not helpful. Moving on. Okay, So do
Speaker 1: you want to go into anonymous.
Speaker 2: Let's do anonymous. My parents got divorced two months ago.
Speaker 2: We found out my dad has had a girlfriend on
Speaker 2: the side for a while. My mom is devastated and
Speaker 2: they are both competing from mine and my brother's good side.
Speaker 2: It's very awkward. I feel betrayed and it's making me
Speaker 2: scared of a romantic relationship in the future. Any advice
Speaker 2: on how to handle it.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, this is terrible.
Speaker 2: This is hard. You know what, though, I think we
Speaker 2: have the same advice as we did for Heather, which
Speaker 2: is you got to sit down and say, have a
Speaker 2: really frank conversation and just say, like, I don't know
Speaker 2: if you know that you're doing this, This is very
Speaker 2: painful for us, and there's competitiveness and it's not helping,
Speaker 2: and you pull them aside individually, I think, is what
Speaker 2: you do.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, absolutely, I agree with that. And also I
Speaker 1: would say, you know, in terms of feeling in terms
Speaker 1: of feeling scared for your own romantic relationship in the future,
Speaker 1: I would be I would be very careful to make
Speaker 1: sure that you understand.
Speaker 2: That that's them.
Speaker 1: Yes, you're in charge of you. And sometimes having a
Speaker 1: front row seat to the devastation that can roll out
Speaker 1: after betrayal is a pretty good cautionary tale. It's pretty
Speaker 1: much a really good indication and a really good real
Speaker 1: life experience that that's not something that you want to
Speaker 1: be a part of. So I actually think that sometimes
Speaker 1: these really horrible and very tough things to bear witness
Speaker 1: to can help make us better and help us understand,
Speaker 1: you know, what the real consequences to that kind of
Speaker 1: behavior are.
Speaker 2: I like to think, and this is something I'm working
Speaker 2: through in one of my many therapy sessions that you
Speaker 2: don't inherit your parents' history. And that is something I'm
Speaker 2: learning because if you took two people that absolutely should
Speaker 2: not have been together, probably not even have shared a
Speaker 2: bus seat, it's my mom and dad. They did they
Speaker 2: should they really should not have been together. It was
Speaker 2: it should have I don't even know, I mean maybe
Speaker 2: even friends. And they were, and they were together for
Speaker 2: a long time. And I have learned that you don't inherit.
Speaker 2: You don't inherit like the mistakes of your parents. You don't.
Speaker 2: It didn't make me more afraid of getting divorced. It
Speaker 2: actually made me a lot pickier when it came to
Speaker 2: picking a partner because I thought, I don't want to
Speaker 2: end up like my parents' relationship and these are things
Speaker 2: that are really important to me before I have kids
Speaker 2: with somebody, and so I would not worry about that.
Speaker 1: Very exciting. We have our first ever voicemail. Very excited
Speaker 1: to introduce this. I cannot wait and I love it,
Speaker 1: love it, love it. We get to hear you in
Speaker 1: your own voice. Hit it than.
Speaker 3: Noah, Hi Jessica.
Speaker 1: My name is Cush I'm twenty seven.
Speaker 3: I am an Indian American gay man who's also a
Speaker 3: huge fan of both of you. So I just moved,
Speaker 3: actually for work, to the suburbs of Philadelphia from New
Speaker 3: York City. I was living in Manhattan, and I'm having
Speaker 3: a really hard time making friends, Like I don't think
Speaker 3: enough people talk about how hard it is to make
Speaker 3: friends as an adult, and I'm really kind of just
Speaker 3: struggling to meet people and just connect with people. So
Speaker 3: any advice that you two have on how to make
Speaker 3: friends is, like a young professional, be very appreciated. Thank
Speaker 3: you very much, and love you both.
Speaker 1: Hope you're doing well. Okay, number one, I want to
Speaker 1: be his friend. I just heard his voice and I
Speaker 1: would like to be his friend.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you're well, you're part of this community, so
Speaker 2: you have everybody here listening.
Speaker 1: So we're count us as your friends. You know what
Speaker 1: it made me think of that? I actually I correct
Speaker 1: me if I'm mistaken. I feel like it might have
Speaker 1: started last year. So Bumble has a friendship component, so
Speaker 1: you can go on and hook up with some friends.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that that would be a great
Speaker 1: place to start, especially in a new locale.
Speaker 2: It's called Bumble BFF or Bumble Friendship Mode. And you
Speaker 2: can seek out friendships in the city because, by the way,
Speaker 2: I agree, it's really hard to make friends as an adult.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I think, I mean, I think that
Speaker 1: that's obviously a very practical way to go about it,
Speaker 1: which I think is right there at your fingertips and
Speaker 1: could be something you just do right away. In the
Speaker 1: longer game aspect of it. I'm a big fan of
Speaker 1: if you're I mean, listen, as long as you're not
Speaker 1: just sitting in your apartment, if you're going out and
Speaker 1: doing the things that you love doing, if you look
Speaker 1: up and don't look at your phone, so don't bumble
Speaker 1: bff or bumble friendship mode in this moment. If you
Speaker 1: are engaging with your environment and you're looking around and
Speaker 1: everything else you're you're likely going to find people who
Speaker 1: like to do the same things as you. So I
Speaker 1: don't know what that is for you, right It might be,
Speaker 1: might be going to the movies. It might be I
Speaker 1: want to sound like the oldest lady in the world
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 2: Just go to the ladies.
Speaker 1: If you could go to your local needle movies and
Speaker 1: talk to the person next to you.
Speaker 2: Strike up a conversation in the middle of you know,
Speaker 2: sailing private rhyme? How are you doing? Do you have
Speaker 2: any friends? Just I'm not you know, I don't like
Speaker 2: to disagree with you, Jess, but I feel like I'm not.
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to figure out the whole movie theater
Speaker 2: friendship part.
Speaker 1: Also, you shouldn't talk.
Speaker 2: Actually, I'm gonna I'm gonna call what it is. I
Speaker 2: think that's the worst place.
Speaker 5: It's the worst advice, the worst Maybe banging on about
Speaker 5: a movie theater you're lying at getting some popcorn, go
Speaker 5: to the library where you're supposed to be really quiet.
Speaker 2: And just start shouting on everybody.
Speaker 1: Oh well, I don't know. Maybe we don't have the
Speaker 1: answer for this.
Speaker 2: Cush is like, what the heck is this advice?
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the app.
Speaker 2: Okay, no, I know, but listen I on the app
Speaker 2: there I do agree with you in that you can
Speaker 2: you can find like a sip and paint or something
Speaker 2: like that that's in your area. Go have a glass
Speaker 2: of wine paint. It feels a little bit more community based.
Speaker 2: There's also cooking classes in every city where you go,
Speaker 2: you learn to cook together. I feel like it's you're
Speaker 2: you're doing an activity that also at the same time
Speaker 2: as being with other people. And I feel like sometimes
Speaker 2: doing an activity makes it feel less pressure of like you.
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, yeah, like a parallel friend.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly right, That's that's what I would do.
Speaker 1: I also think that if you got into uh, like,
Speaker 1: obviously gyms are great places to meet people, or classes,
Speaker 1: yoga classes, well.
Speaker 2: Hang on, hang on though, the gym is gonna this
Speaker 2: is gonna that's gonna be a controversial. Take my online.
Speaker 2: I see people that are very unhappy.
Speaker 1: When people talk to you at the gym, at the gym.
Speaker 2: At the gym, they're filming other people trying to talk
Speaker 2: to them. What yeah, because you could you could end
Speaker 2: up going viral because of Capshaw's all of capshaw suggestions,
Speaker 2: because I guy talking the movie there and that he's
Speaker 2: getting filmed at the gym. No, I want you to
Speaker 2: keep going because this is really entertaining.
Speaker 1: Let me just give her more fuel for the fire. Listen.
Speaker 2: Awesome, So you have to be tricky. But just when
Speaker 2: I met in the workplace, and sometimes your workplace buddies
Speaker 2: are great, and yeah, it's like let's just say, hey,
Speaker 2: this is a really rough day. Is anyone available to
Speaker 2: go grab a drink like or just go let's go
Speaker 2: to lunch right now. Anyone want to get lunch and
Speaker 2: strike up conversations in the workplace because those are definitely
Speaker 2: people in your world every single day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think that you might just
Speaker 1: have to get it, definitely. I think bottom line, and
Speaker 1: you're already there. You have to want it, and you
Speaker 1: have to know that getting it means leaving your apartment
Speaker 1: or leaving your comfort zone and asking someone to go
Speaker 1: do something or whatever. And also, by the way, you're
Speaker 1: not going to always you know, get the right person
Speaker 1: right away. So that doesn't mean to stop trying. Just
Speaker 1: keep going. Remember I didn't even like Camela when I
Speaker 1: met her. Keep trying, keep trying. Just if you work
Speaker 1: a little bit harder, you'll start to like her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, might take months for someone to even like you.
Speaker 2: Just keep going, keep going.
Speaker 1: See I pushed through with Camilla and it's all paid off.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. They might find you absolutely intolerable. To
Speaker 2: keep at it.
Speaker 1: You'll get to some kind of gold at some point.
Speaker 2: I also think that don't forget that there's other people
Speaker 2: feeling it's not because it feels very lonely. I had
Speaker 2: this one I moved to Los Angeles. I felt very lonely,
Speaker 2: and it feels really vulnerable to have that feeling. And
Speaker 2: I would by the way I would go to lunch
Speaker 2: sometimes that I would see groups of girlfriends and I
Speaker 2: would just stare at them, like WHOA, what's that like?
Speaker 2: And I'd be by myself and it was hard. But
Speaker 2: there are so many people feeling that way. There are
Speaker 2: people moving all the time as adults, and so you
Speaker 2: kind of have to shake off the vulnerability of it
Speaker 2: in order to get out there. Yeah, on the subject,
Speaker 2: someone asked, with both of us being on a TV
Speaker 2: show together, did we ever feel competition with each other?
Speaker 2: And this can happen in shows, and this can definitely
Speaker 2: happen in big ensemble shows, and that people feel like, well,
Speaker 2: maybe I want more storyline. I'm you know how many
Speaker 2: I'm saying one line this episode or this person's more
Speaker 2: with the focus. I think that first of all, I
Speaker 2: have to say that I never felt competition with Jessica Capshaw.
Speaker 2: But I think it's also because like when I got
Speaker 2: on the show she played Arizona Robbins, I had there
Speaker 2: was no part of I couldn't even compete. What was
Speaker 2: the point there was no like she was one of
Speaker 2: the most beloved characters ever. They were so different and
Speaker 2: I just did not feel that way at all ever
Speaker 2: with No. I really, I really honestly haven't felt that
Speaker 2: way on the show No.
Speaker 1: And I also I think I do have to say
Speaker 1: I think that I think that, you know, I think
Speaker 1: that that can I have had. I have had that
Speaker 1: at work, not on that on not on gras, on
Speaker 1: a different show I had. I worked with a woman
Speaker 1: who was incredibly competitive with me, like nasty competitive, but
Speaker 1: just do nasty things like you get out of makeup
Speaker 1: and she'd look at you and be like, are you done?
Speaker 3: Did you?
Speaker 1: Did you? Are you going back in? Or you're done?
Speaker 1: You know, my makeup's done? E fal No. It was
Speaker 1: just like things she can do to make you feel insecure.
Speaker 1: That's I mean, that's on her and I actually I
Speaker 1: did kind of know it then, so that was grateful
Speaker 1: to not take it personally. Again, don't ever take it personally.
Speaker 1: I never felt competitive with you. I do think when
Speaker 1: you're on a show or when you're in a regular job,
Speaker 1: you know, when someone is you know, got more to do,
Speaker 1: more responsibility, more chances to shine if you will if
Speaker 1: that's what you're if that's how you're oriented, Yeah, for
Speaker 1: sure that can be you know, you can be aware
Speaker 1: of it. I think that that's that's what I think
Speaker 1: that I feel the most in friendships. Again, two things
Speaker 1: can be true. You can be getting more storylines, and
Speaker 1: I can be disappointed about that and be happy for you,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, like one has nothing to do
Speaker 1: with the other.
Speaker 2: Yes, the only other time I've the only time I
Speaker 2: felt jealous on our show is when someone's been given
Speaker 2: just the best storyline and you're like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I would love to play that. Like it comes from
Speaker 2: an artistic thing. You're so happy for them because you're
Speaker 2: like this is gonna be great TV and they're gonna
Speaker 2: have a blast. But like you can't help artistically being like,
Speaker 2: oh I would love to you know, I'd love to
Speaker 2: like get in on this storyline. But that's you know,
Speaker 2: that's life when it happens. I actually think being on
Speaker 2: a big ensemble show is fantastic because it ends up
Speaker 2: being very humbling.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna leave you. I'm gonna leave, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna leave you with this when I
Speaker 1: you ready tell me bard my memory. Okay, God, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna take you back. I'm going to take you back
Speaker 1: to Yeah, skid check my facts. I think it's about
Speaker 1: twenty ten. Okay, we get word that there's a musical episode.
Speaker 1: I'm crazy.
Speaker 2: It was not part of this I was not part
Speaker 2: of this episode.
Speaker 1: We are going, Yeah, we're gonna have a musical episode.
Speaker 2: Let me guess you wanted all the solos, Jessica Capshaw.
Speaker 2: This was your this was your episode, just my time
Speaker 2: to shine.
Speaker 1: In my mind, all of my musical stylings in the shower. Yeah,
Speaker 1: did you bring your own mind in all the ways
Speaker 1: I was going to be discovered. I was going to
Speaker 1: be discovered. So we go to this coach who's going
Speaker 1: to sing with us a little bit and like see
Speaker 1: what we're capable of. Before they get into song selections,
Speaker 1: you're already laughing. I don't know why. I'm already laughing
Speaker 1: because I'm realizing you've never told me this story.
Speaker 2: So I'm so in. Okay, go we.
Speaker 1: Get sent to the coach. She's definitely looking back. Now.
Speaker 1: She's there to judge. She's there to judge what our
Speaker 1: abstitute is, what we can do, what we cannot do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm feeling confident. Yeah, I'm feeling like, yeah, sure
Speaker 1: I can do the scales. We get la la la
Speaker 1: la la. We're gonna have tre la la la. We're
Speaker 1: gonna do all the things. It's gonna be great, and
Speaker 1: we go and then I remember waiting a while because
Speaker 1: then there were the song selections, and then everybody gets
Speaker 1: you know, we get the script and in like bold
Speaker 1: it was when we would sing, and so you could
Speaker 1: skim through the script to see your name and what
Speaker 1: was in bold, because that meant you were singing.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Real fans of the show know how much I saw
Speaker 1: song and how much did you sing? Very little? I
Speaker 1: sang very little.
Speaker 2: Were you in a coma? Did they put you in
Speaker 2: on an?
Speaker 1: I was on the coma. I was not CALLI was
Speaker 1: in the coma. And Kyler Lee say like a bird
Speaker 1: and yeah, I mean had so many beautiful songs. I
Speaker 1: mean the two am that she and she had such
Speaker 1: she has such a beautiful voice and she crushed it.
Speaker 1: And again the two things can be true. I can
Speaker 1: have wanted to have the kind of voice that was
Speaker 1: gonna get those songs. Yeah, And I was happy for her,
Speaker 1: but I do remember being like, like, that's cool. I'm
Speaker 1: only singing that one those two sentences and that one song.
Speaker 1: That's cool.
Speaker 2: Did you have a song in mind where you're like,
Speaker 2: if I could get this solo?
Speaker 1: No, because I didn't know what songs we were doing.
Speaker 2: Chasing Cars, Well.
Speaker 1: We all sang on that. That was like a whole
Speaker 1: you know, we all, we all that didn't count. I
Speaker 1: mean the real solos is what I was talking about. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm really happy to love about everyone who sang for
Speaker 1: a lot of time on the show.
Speaker 2: There's still time, Jess. I feel like there's a musical
Speaker 2: in your future. Yees full time. Don't give up on
Speaker 2: that dream.
Speaker 1: Nope, nope, nope, nope. I'm gonna come from abundance. There's
Speaker 1: more in the universe. For me, that was the song
Speaker 1: I was sang too, The universe and.
Speaker 2: You Universe and you can you give us a little
Speaker 2: no one of your lines.
Speaker 1: No. No. It could be someone.
Speaker 2: Listening that's looking for the next big Vegas residency star
Speaker 2: and they're like, god, if she just sung a line,
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: Well, they won't be able to tell from my one
Speaker 1: line in universe and you I did a lot of
Speaker 1: takes the bets you did.
Speaker 2: Oh oh my god, cringees and hurts all at the
Speaker 2: same time, a real cringe hurt feeling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: I love that we tackled jealousy.
Speaker 1: We have yes see. And by the way, that's why
Speaker 1: you need a crew, because you got to talk it out.
Speaker 1: You got to talk it out to get to where
Speaker 1: you need to be. So I'm very grateful for this
Speaker 1: Call It crew.
Speaker 2: I want to say before we go, it was so
Speaker 2: fun getting a voicemail today being able to listen to it,
Speaker 2: hearing your voices. Ah, we want to hear all your voices.
Speaker 2: So should you feel like you want to, you can
Speaker 2: contact us at one eight three three seven call It
Speaker 2: which is one eight seven seven seven two two five
Speaker 2: five four eight, and leave us a voicemail and we
Speaker 2: may play it on the show.
Speaker 1: I loved hearing from him, and you know what, you
Speaker 1: get so much emotion from his voice, and like I said,
Speaker 1: I could tell in a second that I wanted to
Speaker 1: be his friend.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Cush is.
Speaker 1: Capable of making friends and he is going to And
Speaker 1: if you see a Cush in the suburbs of Philadelphia,
Speaker 1: go talk to him.
Speaker 2: Don't go see a movie with him.
Speaker 1: Don't go see a movie with him or try to
Speaker 1: talk to him during the movie. Go talk to him.
Speaker 2: No, no, yes, absolutely all right, so let's call it Jess.
Speaker 1: The end of the episode is taping a feat