WEBVTT - United States of Injustice 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:14.680 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WIKA F Daily with 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:20.760 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording live from my Brooklyn silarium. 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:24.400 Look at the plant babies, folks. I got to tell 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:28.200 you that each and every day I kind of I 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:33.720 wake up and I peruse the news as one does. 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:36.800 I go to Twitter, I go to the New York Times, 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:39.400 I go to Wall Street Journal, I go to Slade, 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:41.559 I go to Medium. I go to a range of 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:45.640 places in order to process what is going on today 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:49.360 and every day. I got to tell you, since Trump 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:53.680 left office, I have gone to these places waiting waiting 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:57.880 for the fucking headline that says that Donald Trump and 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:02.440 all of his criminal assists are being indicted, that they're 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:05.440 actually going to be criminally charged. Do you know that 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:11.000 Donald Trump has been sued a major multiple times, investigated 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:15.160 multiple times, he had if you remember, Trump University was 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:21.399 shut down by Attorney general State Attorney General Letitia James 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:23.600 here in New York, who is now running for governor. 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:31.200 And yet every day that I wait for this breaking news, 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:36.320 I wait for these headlines, they never come. So last 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:40.479 week we had an announcement from the Manhattan District Attorney's 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:42.800 office that they were going to be in paneling a 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:48.280 second grand jury right to investigate Trump. Now, what you 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:51.720 will learn from my conversation with our friend Glenn Kirshner 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:55.760 is at sivance. The prior Manhattan District attorney had him 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:58.320 paneled a jury for six months. We've talked about that 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:03.120 on woke AF and I believed, or at least I hoped, 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:06.400 during that six months that we were going to see 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:11.560 a barrage of fucking indictments. Now, while I guess we 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:15.680 can feel encouraged ish that there is a second grand 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:19.000 jury that is going to be in operation because there's 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:24.320 just so much information to go through, I just wonder, 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:31.360 this is my real question, folks, how much information, how 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:38.120 much evidence is required to indict a wealthy white man 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:42.840 in America? Because let's just be fucking honest. As we 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:46.720 are watching these insurrectionist cases, as we are watching the 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:50.840 Kyle Rittenhouse case, as we are seeing all of this transpire, 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:57.080 what it proves right in this country is that black 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:02.120 lives really do not matter at the only people BIPOC lives, 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:07.160 Black Indigenous people of color BIPOC lives don't fucking matter. 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:13.519 Low income lives right do not matter that the only 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:18.320 thing that matters in America is the one currency that 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:22.679 none of us, right who were not born white can use, 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:29.040 which is your whiteness. And then you add your maleness 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:33.440 your wealth on top of that, and you're in a 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.560 league all of your own. You're in a league that 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:40.960 the system was built to protect. Right, we have to 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.880 understand sometimes and really get back to the there there 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:52.160 that these systems that we have just understood as our norms, right, 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:54.760 as understood as the ways to keep us safe. Like 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:58.120 the lie that we tell ourselves about police officers right 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:00.840 in their presence and the fact that you know the 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:03.160 police are there to keep us safe, and that the 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:06.680 only reason why crime goes up or crime goes down 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:10.560 is because of police presence, which is a lie. Right 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:14.840 we say this. There are reports and documentation to the 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:19.440 contrary that say that more police does not equal more safety. 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:24.000 But you see Democrats get caught up in their desire 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:26.080 to seem tough on crime. That's how we got the 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:29.880 fucking crime bill that put generations of black people and 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:33.960 brown people in prison. Right, That's where we got maximum 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:39.039 minimum sentences from is because Democrats, after being told by 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:42.960 the Republicans that they were soft on crime that they 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:45.240 came out with this robust people. Hey, we're going to 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:47.479 lock up more black and brown people than you could 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:51.200 ever do. Right, will show you realizing that they're all 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:56.560 functioning on the same foundation of white supremacy. Right, So 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:01.520 here we have a po I love evidence, I mean 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:07.240 the evidence against Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, Mark Meadows in 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:11.320 their own fucking words. Right, let's just look at the 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:15.080 pandemic first, right, which, by the way, nobody is on 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:18.720 trial for in this country. We talked about the Brazilian 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:24.479 president Bulcinato, right, and the fact that his Senate wants 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:28.800 to investigate him and bring criminal charges because of the 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:32.520 neglect that led to the hundreds of thousands of deaths 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:35.760 in Brazil due to COVID. But there's no one in 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:40.720 these United States that are looking into bringing charges right 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:45.560 of criminal negligence right against Donald Trump and the Trump 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:51.240 administration for what he told Bob Woodward and in fact, 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:54.719 the world after we listened to the audio transcript that 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:59.560 he fucking knew about the coronavirus, knew how deadly it was, right, 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.039 knew that it was more deadly than the flu, knew 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:07.919 how it could be contracted and then even after expressly 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:12.240 saying that in his own fucking words, that motherfucker isn't 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:16.159 on trial, right, no one has even brought it up, 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:23.960 because I honestly believe that Democrats and Republicans want to 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:29.039 just turn the fucking page whatever that means. You know, 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:32.839 they want to turn the page on Trump, and oh, well, 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:36.400 you know it's because Terry mcculliffe talked about Trump, which 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:40.159 is why he lost in Virginia. No, Terry mcculliffe lost 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:42.919 in Virginia because Democrats don't have any fucking policy to 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:46.120 stand on. Terry mcculliffe lost in Virginia because he ran 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:52.520 a lackluster, uninspiring campaign, because he was a lackluster, uninspiring candidate. 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.279 So they make up these excuses in their head, like, oh, no, 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:01.520 we can't talk about these very important issues that have 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:04.279 to do with the security of our democracy or the 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:07.840 security of our people, right because that would be seen 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:11.400 as political. Well, in my conversation with Glenn, Glenn makes 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:14.360 a really good point, do you know what is also political? 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.040 Having a stack of fucking evidence in front of you 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:22.120 that you refuse to actually look at, that you refuse 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:27.840 to do your part in upholding the law right and 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:32.520 really securing faith in our criminal justice system knowing that 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:36.800 it is an unjust system by going after people regardless 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:40.400 of what the fallout would be, because you see, what 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:44.080 Glenn Will tell us is that there is really no 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:51.760 difference right now between how this current Department of Justice 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:57.200 is acting right or their inaction, and then the actions 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:00.800 that were taken in the Bar Department of Justice. You see, 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:05.720 they were both being political. Barr was playing the wolf 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.960 and the clean up guy for Donald Trump's criminality and 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:12.440 using the Department of Justice as an extension of the 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:19.440 Trump campaign of the Trump administration. Well, Merrick Garland's refusal 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:22.560 to act right now given all of the shit in 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:25.360 front of him because of whatever we want to call it, 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:33.280 prosecutor prosecutorial timidity, or just playing bullshit and fear is 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:38.640 also political. Being inactive in the pursuit of justice because 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:41.720 you're worried about what other people, what the other party 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:44.680 is going to say about you, doesn't make you any 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:48.360 less political than a Bill Barr, who used the full 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:53.400 power of the same agency in order to protect a 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:57.360 mob fucking boss that was elected president of the United States. 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:04.839 So my feeling here is that once again we see 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:08.280 over and over and over and over and over again 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:11.640 that so long as you're white, so long as you 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:17.800 are male and wealthy and powerful and connected, you're safe. 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:25.560 You're good. Right, Because let me tell you how little 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:31.319 evidence would have been needed to throw a black Stephen 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:34.840 Bannon in jail. Let me tell you how little evidence 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:41.920 Republicans would have needed if Obama right had done a 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.320 quarter of the things that Donald Trump had done. Like, 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:50.040 let us all take the mind trip right back to 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:55.640 the end of Bill Clinton's presidency, where he was impeached 0:09:56.840 --> 0:10:01.960 for a blowjob. Right, that blowjob didn't in danger the 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:05.640 American people, It didn't kill four hundred thousand people, It 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:12.760 didn't put us in precarious situations. It didn't endear our 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:18.040 long sworn enemies. Right, it didn't do anything except make 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.960 us think like, oh, well, I guess the President of 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:26.000 the United States really is a human being and is fallible. Right, 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:31.760 That's what it made me think. Because you had a 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:34.360 political party at one time that always wanted to claim 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:37.560 the fucking moral high ground. But they can't do that 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:41.640 anymore because of who they associate themselves with. But because 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:46.120 Democrats don't provide any messaging to the contrary, they're still 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:53.280 able to pretend to perform morality. But here's the thing. 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:56.760 We know that Donald Trump is a criminal, But what 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:59.120 I recognize is that the only time that we ever 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.360 in this country throw the book at somebody, want to 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:04.120 stomp them into the ground and want to put them 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:07.360 under the jail, is if they are black and brown 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:13.000 and poor, then we're going to do everything in our power. Right. 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:17.640 Then we can kick indoors, we can pull you out, right, 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:21.240 we can parade you in front of the press, right, 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:24.120 we can throw red meat, we can make all of 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:29.200 the headlines, but we never do that. You know, one 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:32.400 of the insurrectionists, and I can't even be troubled to 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:35.160 remember the woman's name at the time, but she had 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:39.840 posted on social media that after the insurrection, she's like, 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:41.679 I'm not going to jail. None of us are going 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:45.720 to jail, right, because she knew that her whiteness, right 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:51.120 and apparently her white woman's tears, We're going to protect 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:55.160 her because why should she ever think otherwise. Now she 0:11:55.360 --> 0:12:00.439 is in fact going to jail, right. But the way 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:07.920 that we are handling this insurrection with kid gloves, the 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.480 way that we are and everybody wants to say, oh, well, 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:12.839 we just want to get things right. But it's so 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:18.120 funny to me how it's we can move with the 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:21.440 speed of light to lock black and brown people up, 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:23.800 because that's where this country believes that black and brown 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:28.680 people belong. Right. But we got to be super duper sure. 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:31.360 We gotta dot our eyes and cross all of our teas, 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:35.520 and underline our words and use highlighters and make absolutely 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:40.000 sure that we would never unjustly send a white woman, 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:44.800 a white person to prison, even though they tell us 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.840 via social media, they tell us via their own conversations 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.640 with reporters on podcasts just how fucking criminal they are. 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:58.280 But oh, we don't know what's in their heart. We 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:05.240 need more evidence. If the past year hasn't shown you 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:10.559 how unjust our criminal justice system is, how unbalanced it is, 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.319 how it is fixed and rigged. You want to talk 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.240 about a system that is rigged, It's not elections, No, 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:22.680 it's our criminal justice system. Right. There are stories left 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:25.400 and right about innocent black people being in jail, not 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:29.920 being able to afford a lawyer. The Caliph Browder story 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:34.600 of being in Rikers for three years, beaten, abused, right 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:38.480 for thought that he stole a backpack. There was no 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:42.960 fucking evidence, but he sat in Rikers for three years. 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:47.040 We have all the evidence in the world against Steve Bannon, 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:53.160 Mark Meadows, Donald Trump, Don McGann, all of them, Loui 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:59.559 de Joy, but we're waiting for what some fucking magic unicorn. 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:08.080 What I want people to see if nothing else, is 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:13.359 that the reason why folks march, the reason why they protest, 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:15.800 the reason why they get to a place in a 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:19.200 state where they just want to burn shit down literally 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:23.400 is because of this. Because as a person of color, 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.680 you feel like you were screaming into a fucking void 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.280 every single day, waiting for a white person to pay attention, 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:33.120 waiting for somebody to be like, oh you know what 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:37.320 racism does exist? Do you know what it is? Actually 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:42.440 in every part of every system, every agency, every aspect 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:49.160 of your every day. It is so fucking exhausting to 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:53.120 do this, to have these conversations all the goddamn time, 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.760 and people like on Twitter, they will still say, oh, 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.080 well that's not the case, that's not true, And I'm like, 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:04.680 fuck you, go follow somebody else, go spread your bullshit 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:08.200 somewhere else, because I'm not buying it. Because we can 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:12.920 all see those of us with real, like thought, real 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.360 brains in our heads that haven't had a lobotomy by 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:21.000 this cultish white supremacist party know exactly what is happening 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:26.040 here or what is not happening. And it's infuriating because 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:30.120 if you are not mad, right, if your blood does 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:34.120 not boil right now, then you are not paying attention. 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.160 But I know that you guys are the wokes of 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:40.240 the woke, and what I ask is that you share 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:46.160 these sentiments everywhere and anywhere, because it is going to 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:49.120 be the power of the people that is going to 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.560 get things done, if at all, because we shore as 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:57.360 fuck cannot rely on agencies on our government to do 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:02.360 what is necessary because they're too busy pandering, right, They're 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:08.280 too busy performing outrage instead of actually being outraged. Coming 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:12.320 up next, dear friends, is my conversation with our favorite 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:18.000 former federal prosecutor and yours, Glenn Kershner, will be up next. 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:24.800 I am so excited because there's been some news, some 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:28.680 actual movement, right. I don't know if it's good news. 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:30.440 I don't know if it's bad news. And to help 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:32.600 us break it down all the legal news, as we 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:38.440 do every single week, is our friend MSNBC legal analyst 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:44.800 and contributor and host of Justice Matters, Glenn Kirshner Glenn, Okay, 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:48.000 So we've had an election, we have a new Manhattan 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.520 DA here, and my hope was that they were going 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:54.760 to pick off, pick up where side Vance has left off. 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:59.320 Announcement came out this week saying that the Manhattan District 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:06.080 Attorney's off is seeking a second grand jury looking into 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:10.960 Donald Trump, the Trump organization. Is this a good thing 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:17.080 or a bad thing, because, as our friend Ellie Mstall 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:22.000 has said recently, he goes, you know, Ken Star called 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:25.800 a called the grand jury for one thing and ended 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.280 up with a dress. So how is it that we 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:32.040 are having to call in a second grand jury here? 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:35.480 And what does that mean? So I think the most 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:39.240 accurate answer is we don't know, right, because there are 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:42.040 a number of reasons to call in a second grand jury. 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:44.560 So let me just kind of break down the grand 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:50.720 jury practice. Generally, in some jurisdictions, jurisdictions, grand juries only 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:52.880 sit for about four to six weeks, and I think 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:55.640 that's the ordinary practice in New York. So we all 0:17:56.400 --> 0:18:00.040 sat up and took note when sie Vance requested a 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.159 special grand jury to sit for six months. What that 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:06.760 tells me is he wanted consistency with the same grand 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:10.240 jurs over a six month period so he could present 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.960 the Trump organization case to them, the Weisselburg case to them, 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:16.720 perhaps the Donald Trump case to them. Well, we got 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.240 two out of the three, right, We got the organization indicted, 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.760 we got Weisselberg indicted. And now there are a couple 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.679 of things going on. One, that six month grand jury 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:30.159 is coming to the end of its term. The logical 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.160 thing to do, if you were engaged in the exact 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:36.960 same investigation with the same scope and the same targets, 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.439 would be to request and extension of that same grand jury. 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:44.280 That's not what they're doing. They're requesting a separate new 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:47.119 grand jury. Now they could be doing that for a 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:50.600 couple of reasons. It could simply be procedural. The six 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:52.800 month grand jury, let me tell you, it's an imposition. 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:55.800 When we bring citizens in to spend six months of 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:59.360 their lives sitting as grand juris. It may be that 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.960 they're they're worn out, and they now need to impanel 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.600 a new batch of grand jurors. The other possibility is 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:10.280 that sometimes when you investigate in a grand jury, you 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.760 end up presenting them a lot of information that ultimately 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:17.080 you're not going to use to ask them to vote 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:21.080 out indictments, and you don't want to taint the indictment, 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:25.400 so you impanel a second grand jury. You only present 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:29.240 to them the information you want them to have available 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:33.320 to vote on indictments. That way, you can't be accused 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:37.280 of sort of poisoning the well when that ultimate indictment 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:40.440 is returned. Let me maybe a parallel in trial practice. 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:44.440 All the time, we have people blurt stuff out that's 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:48.080 inadmissible in front of the jury. What does the judge do? 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:52.320 Ladies and gentlemen, I'm instructing you to strike that from 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:55.960 your mind. It may play no role in your deliberations. 0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:01.600 It was inadmissible information, and we assume the jurors follow 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:05.720 the judge's instructions. Well, there really is no comparable protection 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:08.480 in the grand jury when a whole bunch of information 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:12.880 and evidence comes out that we as prosecutors ultimately don't 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:16.840 want the grand jury to consider when they're voting out indictments. 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:21.520 So it could be procedural, it could be substitutive, it 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:24.080 could be a combination of the two. We don't know 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:26.600 what we don't know, so we're just trying to read 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.320 t leaves at this point. So let me ask you 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:33.000 some rudimentary questions, right for those of us who are 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:36.760 not lawyers but like to play them on TV. So 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:40.359 let me ask you this. When you have when Civans 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:43.600 had this first grand jury that was sitting for six months, 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:48.040 are we starting from scratch with the second grand jury? 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:51.680 Because you have all of this information, all of this 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.720 investigation that has happened over this time with this group 0:20:55.760 --> 0:21:00.600 of what twelve people I'm assuming right, and the jurors 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:04.520 usually have about twenty three, okay people, and they and 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:07.199 they twelve of them have to vote in favor of 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:11.399 an indictment. Okay, So we have these twenty three people 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.679 that now have this six month wealth of knowledge. What 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:20.120 happens with that versus this new batch of twenty three, 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.479 you know, randomly selected people that are now going to 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:27.239 sit like this is the I'm interested in understanding the 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:31.080 continuity of how one puts together a case of this 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:36.120 scope with this many people. Great question, Danielle. That's one 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:38.920 of the reasons federal grand juries sit for about eighteen 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:41.400 months at a time, maybe a couple of days a week, 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:44.480 and then we can extend that grand jury until our 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:47.960 investigation is complete and we can ask for final indictments 0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:50.360 to be returned. But in the state system, when you've 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:52.520 got grand juries for you know, six weeks in a climate, 0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:54.879 it's always a new batch of people coming in. How 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:58.639 do we achieve continuity? Here's how. Let's assume that this 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:01.120 six month grand jury is just worn out and they 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:05.400 need to impanel a new group of people. What prosecutors 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:09.280 will do is they will take the transcripts from the 0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:13.240 prior grand jury that's at for six months and heard 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:17.480 maybe two hundred witnesses. They will present them to the 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:21.720 second grand jury, often in summarized fashion, or they won't 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:24.159 present them at all. Maybe a hundred of those witnesses 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:28.080 really didn't add much of substance to the indictment mix, 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:31.880 so there's no need to represent that information. So there 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:36.919 are ways to represent information, even in summarized form, to 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:39.840 the incoming grand jury, to bring them up to speed quickly, 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:43.199 so you don't have to end up starting over from scraps. 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:46.560 Oh okay, okay, So this makes more sense to me 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:50.240 and is more clarifying. Now talk to us just for 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:53.679 folks again, because I find this all very interesting. You know, 0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:56.600 many of us have gone through what it would be 0:22:56.720 --> 0:22:59.040 like to be on a regular jury. Right, we go 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:02.640 in for every duty, you're selected, you're not selected. In 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:07.440 part of the Washington Post um coverage of this of 0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:10.800 this m second grand jury coming on, they're telling us 0:23:10.800 --> 0:23:13.240 that these folks will be coming in three days a week, 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:18.320 um over the next you know, several several weeks. What 0:23:18.520 --> 0:23:21.280 is it? What are some of the differences that we 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:25.680 understand between what many of us have been called into 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:27.760 to under you know, a regular I'll just call it 0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:33.360 a regular jury selection versus a grand jury of this scope. 0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:38.320 And are these people because they're not being sequestered right 0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:41.800 like there, it's not like the movie Runaway Jury, which 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:44.320 is one of my favorites. It's not like you're being 0:23:44.359 --> 0:23:47.840 sequestered away from family and friends for months. You're going 0:23:47.880 --> 0:23:49.960 home and you're kind of going into this part time 0:23:50.040 --> 0:23:52.960 job three days a week. So how does that play 0:23:53.000 --> 0:23:56.960 out for the for these people? So? Um, yeah, we 0:23:57.080 --> 0:24:00.919 have much more control over trial juries because the judge 0:24:01.000 --> 0:24:05.520 instructs them that, you know, listen, under the penalties of contempt, 0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:09.960 you are required to follow the court's instructions like you 0:24:10.000 --> 0:24:14.560 may not discuss this case while it is ongoing. Until 0:24:15.080 --> 0:24:18.040 it's concluded. You can't discuss it with anybody, not your friends, 0:24:18.080 --> 0:24:20.679 not your family. Why because if you go home and 0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:23.520 you exchange ideas and information about the evidence, you're going 0:24:23.560 --> 0:24:27.399 to bring their ideas and their perspectives into the case. 0:24:27.480 --> 0:24:30.439 And that's improper because they're not sitting there listening to 0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:33.119 the evidence. So we try to replicate that in the 0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:35.680 grand jury because remember, the grand jury is an arm 0:24:35.720 --> 0:24:37.960 of the court, it's not the arm of the prosecutor. 0:24:38.040 --> 0:24:41.600 So when grand jurors are in processed after the court 0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:44.400 you know, brings them in for grand jury service, they 0:24:44.440 --> 0:24:48.320 do get all of the standard instructions, many that are 0:24:48.320 --> 0:24:50.679 that are the same as the instructions we give to 0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:53.600 trial jury. So you know, they understand that they are 0:24:53.720 --> 0:24:58.480 not to speak about the investigation outside the four walls 0:24:58.520 --> 0:25:01.639 of the grand jury room because it's a secret proceeding 0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:05.560 by law for lots of good reasons, but it is 0:25:05.600 --> 0:25:09.240 a little bit less controlled, so we often have to 0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:12.560 rely on the you know, the good sense and the 0:25:12.600 --> 0:25:15.399 ethics of the grand jurors. I will tell you, after 0:25:15.480 --> 0:25:17.800 thirty years of going in and out of grand jury rooms. 0:25:18.359 --> 0:25:23.439 My take is that grand jurors take their responsibilities very seriously. 0:25:23.920 --> 0:25:26.840 Every once in a while there is a breach. Information 0:25:27.280 --> 0:25:29.359 leaks out, and then we have to investigate did it 0:25:29.480 --> 0:25:32.560 come from a grand jur because that could be a 0:25:32.600 --> 0:25:35.800 prosecutable offense if a grand jury, If a grand jury 0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:40.680 leaked information, so it's a pretty serious affair, but it's 0:25:40.760 --> 0:25:45.639 far less controlled or controllable then a trial jury is. 0:25:45.720 --> 0:25:49.240 So because there's no judge in the grand jury. It's 0:25:49.280 --> 0:25:53.439 just the grand jurors, the prosecutor, the witness, and a 0:25:53.480 --> 0:25:58.400 court reporter taking everything down. It really is our responsibility 0:25:58.520 --> 0:26:01.639 as the prosecutors to not only present the case fully 0:26:01.720 --> 0:26:05.280 and fairly and honestly to the grand jury, but and 0:26:05.359 --> 0:26:09.080 this is going to sound perhaps incongruous to use a 0:26:09.080 --> 0:26:13.240 big word, but we are also the legal advisors to 0:26:13.280 --> 0:26:16.919 the grand jurors. So, for example, if I'm asking a 0:26:16.920 --> 0:26:20.760 grand jury to return a first degree premeditated murder indictment, 0:26:21.280 --> 0:26:25.400 I am also responsible for explaining the elements of the offense, 0:26:25.560 --> 0:26:30.440 explaining the law, explaining any self defense angle that may 0:26:30.520 --> 0:26:34.120 have arisen during the course of the grand jury presentation. 0:26:34.520 --> 0:26:38.400 I have to do that honestly, and you know, we're 0:26:38.480 --> 0:26:40.960 kind of left to the goodwill and the good ethics 0:26:41.000 --> 0:26:44.080 of the prosecutors to make sure they fulfill all of 0:26:44.119 --> 0:26:48.080 those responsibilities. So let me let's switch gears for a moment, 0:26:48.119 --> 0:26:52.359 because you know I am one of ye of little patience. Right, 0:26:52.600 --> 0:26:56.520 Let's let me be clear that since you know, the election, 0:26:56.840 --> 0:26:59.639 I have just been waiting with bated breath, as we 0:26:59.720 --> 0:27:03.320 have for the past two almost two years that we 0:27:03.359 --> 0:27:07.720 have been talking for the parade, you know what I'm 0:27:07.760 --> 0:27:11.479 talking about, the indictment parade. So Donald Trump has been 0:27:11.560 --> 0:27:16.600