1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class A production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio, Hello and Happy Friday. Am Holly 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. We talked about Charles 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: McIntosh on the first mass produced rainware. Yeah yeah, Um, 5 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: so the reason we did this episode, can you guess? 6 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: I'll ask you if you want to guess? I don't 7 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: think I can't guess. You probably could if you really thought. 8 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: I put effort into guessing. It's Bob's Burgers. It's always 9 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: Bubbs Burgers. So there's an episode of Bob's Burgers where 10 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 1: Linda is trying to explain to Bob and the kids 11 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: this long running family feud that's been going on on 12 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: her side of the family, and one of the very 13 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: minor details in it is that she thinks that one 14 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: of the people from the wrong side of the family 15 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: married into the family that invented raincoats, and Bob is like, 16 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: I don't think that's right, and I'm like, what is right? 17 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: Who did event raincoats? And that's how that happened. Um. 18 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,639 Speaker 1: I almost want to do a future episode on Thomas 19 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: Hancock because he's perse nickty in a way that I 20 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: find entertaining. For one thing, he called his masticator in 21 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: his like casual writing about it a pickle. He called 22 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: it the pickles it because it was like a long 23 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: tube and it had little bumps on it. It did 24 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 1: kind of look like a pickle. And so any of 25 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: his writing like two friends about it, or like, oh, 26 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: I was working on the pickle today, and it just 27 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: cracks me up. But he was also I mean, we 28 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: mentioned that he was involved in that legal battle about 29 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: protecting their patents and he was relentless. So you mentioned 30 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: when we were recording that you had seen advertisements that 31 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: are like the good Year raincoat, and when good Year 32 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: started producing rain wear, Hancock took out ads in a 33 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: law of places in Europe and North America that was 34 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: basically like you may be seeing advertisements for a new 35 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: raincoat offered by the Goodyear company. Please know that because 36 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: of my collaboration with Charles McIntosh, ours is the only 37 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: real raincoat. Like, he was very adamant about it, um 38 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: and kind of you know, took an attack approach, yeah, 39 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 1: which cracked me up. I also really enjoyed the problem 40 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: with Taylor's not trusting Charles McIntosh and some of the 41 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: write ups about that also by Thomas Hancock. Are quite funny. 42 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,679 Speaker 1: But I can understand right as someone who stitches a 43 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: whole lot. I mean, this happens to anybody who kind 44 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: of knows what they're doing, and then a random person 45 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: is like, you know what you should do? Which can 46 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: I tell you? That's my most one of my most 47 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: hated phrases, you know you should do? Yeah it. My 48 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: response is always, when you make yours, that's how you 49 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: should do it. But I'm gonna do what I do. Overwhelmingly, 50 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: the person telling me you know what you should do, 51 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: like doesn't actually have the context to know what That's 52 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: why I would say, oh, you should make yours that way. Um, 53 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: and I try to do it with a really peppy, 54 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,679 Speaker 1: up beat boy because it sounds like I'm being supportive, 55 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: but really I'm being kind of a witch. Um. Yeah. 56 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: So I can understand where garment manufacturers were like, that's nice, dude, 57 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: we know how to make clothes, but in that case, 58 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 1: they really didn't know how to work with that specific material. 59 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: That that whole part of it kind of blew my 60 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: mind a little bit because to me, it's just so 61 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: obvious that if you're running a needle through this thing. 62 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: It's gonna make a bunch of tiny halls that are 63 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: gonna leak, which is why I mean technology has evolved 64 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: in more recent years. But like I remember when I 65 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: was a kid, like, there's just so many steps you 66 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: would have to take to like wax the seams in 67 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: these horrible tents at the at the hold, you know, 68 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: girl scout campground, that kind of stuff. Yeah, And I 69 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: mean here's the thing. I can imagine knowing that you're 70 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: making those those stitch holes, but oh they're so tiny, 71 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: it's probably not gonna matter. The rubber is going to 72 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: close up around them a little bit. I could see 73 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: you thinking that, not you specifically, but I could see 74 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: a person thinking that. Uh, and but it just didn't 75 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: work in practice obviously. So like at the McIntosh company now, 76 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: I think one of the things they do, and I 77 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: think what's been done for a long time is after 78 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 1: they stitch a seem like some seams are weld are welded. 79 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 1: 'm air quoting, but you know, uh, it's not welding 80 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 1: like what you might be thinking of with heat, but 81 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: like you can weld glue things together. Um, they will 82 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: go over a seem like an apply a layer of 83 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: rubber to it, just like you were talking about with 84 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: the waxing of of tent seams and stuff. So, um, 85 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: there are different ways that you can manage that. But 86 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: I can completely understand both sides of that particular equation 87 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: where it's like, yes, he does know this will set up. Yes, 88 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: they also absolutely know how to make a garment. It 89 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: just it worked out. I'm curious if you have had 90 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: the same experience I have in that the garment that 91 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: I was told was a macintosh for a million years. 92 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: And I don't know where I got this, but like 93 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: a lot of people I knew called it this. We're 94 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: like those um flannel shirts that are then like quilted 95 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: on the inside like a jacket. And I had always 96 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: heard those called macintosh is, but they're not rainwear and 97 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: they're they're cozy as heck, but they're not appropriate. And 98 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: I don't know where those picked up that that name, 99 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: So I don't I don't think that it is a 100 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: term that has just really been in my vocabulary. Um. 101 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: I feel like I saw like the garment you just 102 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: described described as a macintosh like in a video game 103 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: or something like. Maybe that's where I got it. Yeah, 104 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: I don't know like I just uh, I don't. I 105 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: don't feel like I grew up calling any garment colloquially 106 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: a macintosh. I do, however, remember growing up with totally 107 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: not breathable in any way raincoats. Oh. I have so 108 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: many feelings about raincoat and like growing up in the 109 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: South where often when it was raining, it was also 110 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: warm and just becoming like like a little sauna inside 111 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: the raincoat. Yes, still I would say, Um, it's not 112 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: as common a term here in the UK. I don't 113 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: think you can exist without having heard the term McIntosh 114 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,559 Speaker 1: referred to ejacket all the time. Um. I have strong 115 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: feelings about raincoats, which is that I would rather just 116 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 1: get wet for the same reasons you just mentioned. I 117 00:06:55,360 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: have one raincoat that I have had since college. I 118 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: bought it at here is a blast from the Past 119 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 1: Lowman's department store, and I bought it because it's adorable 120 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: and it's plastic, but it is Leopard Primp and it 121 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: has cute little corduroy cuff and collar like a black 122 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: Cordoy couman collar. And I love it, but like it 123 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: has to be a desperate moment when I will pull 124 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,119 Speaker 1: that one out of the closet because it's I hate 125 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: that feeling of not being able to like have air 126 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: passed through. Yeah, and I'm just like, great, I'll just 127 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: get wet, that's fine. I also don't carry an umbrella 128 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: very often for the very same reasons to cumbersome. I 129 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: remember the first time I bought a a waterproof yet 130 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: breathable jacket. Uh, and it was an an advance of 131 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: a trip to the Pacific Northwest. Um and because often 132 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: those that kind of outerwear is expensive. Like I found 133 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: like the most discounted super Super on sale that I 134 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: actually really liked, and I wore it forever and like now, 135 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: just because I am a little bigger than I was 136 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: when I bought it, i could no longer I can 137 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: no longer sip it up, and I only just recently 138 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: replaced it. Similarly, shopping around a whole lot for something 139 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: that was going to be waterproof but also breathable and 140 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: also not hundreds of dollars. Yeah, yeah, I don't. I 141 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: struggle with rainwear. Yeah, this is why I hate cold weather. Also, 142 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: like I don't like wearing that many layers unless they 143 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: are fancy and cool. What you gotta do is move 144 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: to a place that's a lot colder and be amazed 145 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: as your body recalibrates itself. Well, it's not, it's not 146 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: a temperature thing. I feel like my movement is restricted 147 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: too much, and I get real panicky. Okay, I I'm like, 148 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: I don't have the same range of motion. What if 149 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: ninjas come? Like, it's not gonna happen. It's the same 150 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: reason I don't like massage because it relaxes me too 151 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 1: much and I feel not on alert in case danger 152 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: takes place. And it's the same reason I don't like 153 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: prescription pain medications. Like when I've had like oral surgery 154 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: or something, I'm like, no, I'm too relaxed. I can't 155 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: handle the world if an emergency takes place, and I 156 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: will look very placid on the outside and inside I'm 157 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: a full blown panic attack. Um, I don't. I don't 158 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: want to be restricted in any way mentally or physically. Right. 159 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm perpetually like ready for danger, 160 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: But there you go. We talked about Art Letcher on 161 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: the show this week. We sure did. I do have 162 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: a question for you before you get into your actual 163 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: show stuff, because you have referenced on the show a 164 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: couple times Times, the movie The Road to Wellville. Have 165 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: you read that book? I have not read the book, 166 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: but I do know that it is also a book. 167 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: So I love TC Boyle. I love his writing. Like 168 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: a million years ago, I think when I was maybe 169 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: in high school, he was on NPR talking about his 170 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: short story book If the River Was Whiskey, and I 171 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: have been a fan ever since. So just for anyone 172 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: that hasn't read it and knows about the movie and 173 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: maybe not the book, highly recommend lots of his work. 174 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 1: Very interesting writer, Yeah, yeah, just in general, having worked 175 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: as a massage therapist before, Like, I never worked out 176 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: as a massage therapist at a place that was as 177 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: health devoted as the sand reportedly was. UM, But I 178 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: did work for a time at a spa where people 179 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: would come and stay and all of their meals were 180 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: provided and they were supposed to be like very nutritionally 181 00:10:55,840 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: selected by the chef. And I remember, UM there was 182 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,599 Speaker 1: a guy that did a lot of like the maintenance 183 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: and grounds kind of work who was also people's like 184 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: covert hook up for getting hamburgers from town. I love it, Um. 185 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: And there was a secret soft drink machine sort of 186 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: hidden away. Yeah yeah, so that movie reminds me sometimes 187 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: of some of the things that I experienced as a 188 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: massage therapist, which is a time that I loved a 189 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: lot of aspects of. But also occasionally I would hear 190 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: people say things that made me go, that is not 191 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: how it works, though, um, like Horace Fletcher, there's no, 192 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: there's not a physiological gait in your mouth that is 193 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: forcing you to keep chewing your food until it's out 194 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: of nutrients, Like that's this is not It's not how 195 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 1: it works. Um. I did not read every word of 196 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: of his books, because there are sure, sure a lot 197 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:07,719 Speaker 1: of them, but there were things in them that just 198 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: struck me as so delightful. And I really as soon 199 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: as I read the sentence let us work together for 200 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: a season in the now field, I was like, I've 201 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 1: never heard anybody say that before, but it's so sounds 202 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: like something I would have heard someone say at like 203 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: a self help workshop kind of thing, or like some 204 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 1: kind of relaxation seminar. Uh. And I think I went 205 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: what out loud and then read it again. It was like, 206 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: I love this sentence. Don't be a sewer, don't be 207 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: a sewer. I also liked a lot and that the 208 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: book that that came from was just this weird mix 209 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: of sometimes very long discursive like could you get to 210 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: the point of what you're talking about? And then these 211 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: tiny little gems like don't be a sewer And it 212 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: was like, I would like this all a lot better 213 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: if it was more like don't be a sewer were 214 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 1: and less like here is this incredibly long, wandering paragraph 215 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: about something that doesn't really fully make sense to me. Also, 216 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: one of our past episodes is on Edward Gory uh, 217 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: and I went to the Edward Gory House on Cape 218 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: Cod when I was doing the research for that, and 219 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: there was a little sign hung up by on one 220 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: of the doors that I am pretty sure said no 221 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: Henry James at the Edward Gory House. And so as 222 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: I read this part that was about Henry James being 223 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: just so into Fletcherism, for a while, I was like, 224 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 1: I wonder if that's why, you know, it's so weird 225 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: Fletcherism became so big, And I understand why, right obviously, 226 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: like this person was touting the many benefits and I 227 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: when you read like his rules in that that later book, 228 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: I get it because it has seeds in like a 229 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: very similar thing to what's going on now with like 230 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: intuitive eating and like getting of the diet roller coaster 231 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: that many people find themselves on and actually like listening 232 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: to your body and what it wants and needs. And 233 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: I see why people are like, yes, of course, this 234 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: is how we should do it, and then they go, wait, 235 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:17,719 Speaker 1: I would like, just like a cupcake once in a 236 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: while would be great. Yeah, well, and he was fine 237 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: with cupcakes. Like the there's also a movement now to 238 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: like not assign labels like junk food and write for 239 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: you and things like that to food, and he was 240 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: pretty in line with that, Like he really thought, you 241 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: can eat whatever your appetite is calling for. You just 242 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: gotta chew it. Sometimes he would eat chocolate candy for breakfast, 243 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: but it was like three little pieces of it because 244 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: it took him an hour. See that's the other thing, 245 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: to chew all of it. We didn't really touch on 246 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: it in the episode, but like one of the things 247 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: that really people who were not into this, one of 248 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: the things that they found really upsetting about it is 249 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: that for a lot of us, meals are a social 250 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: active it and we go to dinner together to have 251 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: a connection with other people. And if you were having 252 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: dinner with somebody who was a Fletcher, right, there was 253 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: not going to be any conversation because they were just 254 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: going to be slowly chewing the whole time. Well, that's 255 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: kind of right, that little bit that we did include 256 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: about the four hundred of New York just being not 257 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: a very fun crew anymore, right, Yeah, Yeah. Something that 258 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: I said in the kind of off Mike moment was 259 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: that like, as the food fattiests go, he does seem 260 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: to have been like one of the less dangerous. Like 261 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: he wasn't he wasn't advocating things that could really really 262 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: hurt anybody in most circumstances right there. I feel like 263 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: there are zero nutritional things that are universally applicable to everybody. 264 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: But like, if you were going to try to chew 265 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: your food that much and it was not going to 266 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: work out for you, I think that was going to 267 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: be pretty clear pretty quickly. Uh. And if you were 268 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: going to chew your food that much, it might have 269 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: la like contributed to some like maybe some jaw issues 270 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: or some dental issues, but um, probably not going to 271 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: harm your health long term in the way that some 272 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: of the people that were like, no, you literally just 273 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: need to starve yourself, which was a well and the 274 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: thing was he never really, to the best of my knowledge, 275 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: advocated like you have to eat x number of food 276 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: or x amount less than you were before. His was like, 277 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: you will naturally eat less if you do this, and 278 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: you'll find you want less. Rather than it being a 279 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: limiting thing, it was again one of those like that 280 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: will just happen, don't worry about it. A lot of 281 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: people that write about him today have a big focus 282 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: on on the eight loss aspect of it, because he 283 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: did describe himself as losing a bunch of weight, but 284 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: most of his own writing like that's that's a tiny 285 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: bit of what He was talking a lot more about 286 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: having more energy and not getting sick as often and 287 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: having all this stamina that he reportedly had. Like some 288 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: of the things he was doing as publicity stunts about 289 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: how healthy he kind of was sound almost like kind 290 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,959 Speaker 1: of the stunts that we've talked about with various strong 291 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: woman type characters, not actual people that we've talked about 292 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: on the show before. Um, he's like, I'm gonna ride 293 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 1: a bike two hundred miles and then apparently did claiming 294 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 1: that he had no sortis the next day. And I 295 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: don't know if that was actually the case, if he 296 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: really did, having no real training as a cyclist, ride 297 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: a bike two hundred miles with no sortis the next day. 298 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: I don't have a great explanation for the See, I 299 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: think he was so good at mind over matter, or 300 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: that he probably blocked out the discomfort and pain that 301 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: even a pretty seasoned cyclist would experience. Yeah, yeah, that's 302 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: just my guest. Though. I'm glad that I finally got 303 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: around to him on the on the list because he's 304 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: really been on on my list for a super long time. 305 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: And uh, I don't know I as as um frustrating 306 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: as some of his writing was in terms of how 307 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: it was written. I always love reading the people who 308 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 1: very confidently say something that's wrong. And I'm sure in 309 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: a hundred years somebody's going to listen to our podcast 310 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 1: and listen to me very confidently say something wrong. Oh yeah, 311 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: and be like, I love doing this. I love it 312 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: when people from the past say such doofy things. It happens. 313 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: It happened. We all do because we're operating with the 314 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: knowledge that we have at hands sure, and that knowledge 315 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: is going to change, and sometimes not be accurate any 316 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,120 Speaker 1: longer once we discover new things. Yeah, it's just that's 317 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: what being human is. Yeah. I do wish that we 318 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 1: knew more detail about earlier life. And I actually think, 319 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: UM dedicated researcher could probably trace a lot more stuff. 320 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: Um because when I was trying to just verify stuff 321 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: like his middle name, I just my search results list 322 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: had so many um immigration records from times that he 323 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: applied for a passport or re entered the United States 324 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: or whatever. Um. And so I think uh, as is 325 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: often the case, Like a very dedicated researcher, I think 326 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: could write a very fascinating biography of him. Um. That 327 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: would involve a whole lot of crawling through old records. 328 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: And maybe maybe somebody has that autobiography he was working 329 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: on in their attic somewhere. Um. The only reference to 330 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: a paper's election I found for him was actually at 331 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: Harvard and it was just like a box of some 332 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: correspondents and so uh who knows, But anyway, I would 333 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 1: read that though if somebody did write that biography, the 334 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: universe has heard your call. We'll see what I'm manifesting. 335 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: A biography of Horace Letcher. There you go, if you 336 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: would like to send us a newhere history podcast that 337 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 1: I heart radio dot com. Since it's Friday, Happy Happy Friday. 338 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: Whatever is coming over the weekend for you, whether it's 339 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: work or play, or some combination of the two, I 340 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: hope it goes as well as possible. We'll be back 341 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: with a classic episode tomorrow and something brand new on Monday. 342 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of 343 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, 344 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 345 00:20:58,320 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.