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Speaker 1: Pushkin.

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Speaker 2: All right, here, we are welcome to the third and

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Speaker 2: final part of our season. In this last part, we'll

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Speaker 2: be giving you secret tips so you can make a killing.

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Speaker 3: I was able to completely change my life around, from

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Speaker 3: making zero dollars to now making one hundreds of thousands

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Speaker 3: of dollars from sports betting. During this entire journey, I

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Speaker 3: found seven key habits I wish I knew earlier.

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Speaker 2: Just seven key habits. How hard can it be? I

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Speaker 2: mean even Eric Andre is doing it.

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Speaker 1: No, it's broncos times.

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Speaker 2: I'd take the over, take the over over to YouTube.

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Speaker 4: Everybody's gonna hate me for this.

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Speaker 5: But day three oh seven of betting one hundred dollars

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Speaker 5: every single day of the year, I won five hundred

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Speaker 5: dollars yesterday.

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Speaker 2: Every day is a new day, but it only counts

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Speaker 2: as a day if you put some money down on it.

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Speaker 2: You need to be more like me or Kevin Hart.

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Speaker 2: All run, lady, like it's the birth of your child.

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Speaker 6: Michael. Yeah, yeah, you're in the wrong script.

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Speaker 2: Oh oh, go.

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Speaker 5: To V two.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I never never realized how important

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Speaker 2: was to have an editor. Thank you, Julia. Yeah, so

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Speaker 2: that was the old script. I guess I wrote that

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Speaker 2: somehow before we decided to be the only podcast that

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Speaker 2: refuses ads from sports gambling companies. Ah, here's the new one.

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Speaker 2: Here it is. Welcome to the third and final part

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Speaker 2: of our season. It's it's not about how to make

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Speaker 2: a killing gambling on sports, No, it's about how to

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Speaker 2: prevent sports gambling from killing you. There we go. That's better.

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Speaker 7: Okay, let's roll the theme.

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Speaker 2: I'm Michael Lewis, and this is against the rules. In

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Speaker 2: the first part of this season, we told the story

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Speaker 2: of how sports gambling came to be legalized and normalized

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Speaker 2: in the United States. In part two, we laid out

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Speaker 2: how the new sports gambling industrial complex works, how it

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Speaker 2: came to be dominated by two companies, Fan Duel and

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Speaker 2: Draft Kings, and exquisitely designed to maximize both the number

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Speaker 2: of and the stupidity of sports bets that Americans make.

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Speaker 2: I don't think anybody consciously set out to create as

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Speaker 2: many gambling related tragedies in the United States as possible,

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Speaker 2: but in effect, that's what this new industry is doing.

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Speaker 2: Now we're going to turn to the future like where

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Speaker 2: all this might be headed. And the best way to

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Speaker 2: see the future is always just to look a bit

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Speaker 2: more closely at the present. We're going to start our

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Speaker 2: tour of the present on a basketball.

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Speaker 4: Court gambling signs and gambling advertisements. We can't even watch

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Speaker 4: playbacks of our game without seeing you know, FANDUL DraftKings

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Speaker 4: or whoever advertising you know, the player props or futures

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Speaker 4: going on.

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Speaker 2: That's Larry Nance, junior first round pick of the Los

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Speaker 2: Angeles Lakers back in twenty fifteen. Now he's a power

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Speaker 2: forward for the Atlanta Hawks. The NBA forbids its players

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Speaker 2: from gambling on basketball, but they still have to live

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Speaker 2: in the same world as the rest of us.

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Speaker 4: I know, obviously no betting, no tipping, no fixing, but

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Speaker 4: it's like, come on, guys, you just at least try

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Speaker 4: to hide it from us, like you know, this is

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Speaker 4: still a passion of ours? Is the job of ours

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Speaker 4: that you know you're making just to share almost like

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Speaker 4: a mockery of it.

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Speaker 2: Feels like are you ever made aware of like the

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Speaker 2: specific bets people might have made on you, like the

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Speaker 2: prop bets social media?

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Speaker 4: Will you if you log into social media before or

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Speaker 4: after any game, Before the game you have people begging

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Speaker 4: you to hit a certain amount of rebounds or points

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Speaker 4: or whatever it is. And after the game you either

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Speaker 4: have somebody praising you or absolutely cursing you out for

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Speaker 4: it being your fault that they lost money.

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Speaker 2: Is it different than it was when they were just

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Speaker 2: upset or happy that the team won?

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Speaker 4: Oh significantly significantly. Yeah, it's the kind of language used

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Speaker 4: is drastically different than just like losing a basketball game

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Speaker 4: or having a poor performance. But now like when when

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Speaker 4: somebody thinks you lost the money because you know, it's

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Speaker 4: my job to get your seven rebounds tonight, you know,

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Speaker 4: then then they they get very animated if you don't

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Speaker 4: hit that number.

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Speaker 2: So it's it's kind of it gets personal, oh very much.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, at tax on, family, at tax on just

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Speaker 4: anything they can lash out on, they will use and

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Speaker 4: lash out.

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Speaker 2: So what do you do to defend yourself? I mean,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't mean physically. I'm just like just

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Speaker 2: like to make sure this isn't making your life miserable?

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Speaker 4: Oh, I I mean I didn't. I didn't ask you

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Speaker 4: to put money on me for me, Like I honestly,

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Speaker 4: I have no desire to hit anybody's number. I hope,

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Speaker 4: I hope nobody ever bets on me ever, Like I

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Speaker 4: genuinely hope nobody ever bets on me because I just

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Speaker 4: don't care about your specific agenda. So you can tweet

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Speaker 4: at me anything you want, and my honest reaction is like,

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Speaker 4: shouldn't have bet.

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Speaker 2: Now. Larry Nance isn't even close to the focus of

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Speaker 2: gambling interest in basketball. I love watching him play, but

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Speaker 2: he usually comes off the bench and hardly anyone accepts

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Speaker 2: sports gamblers pay attention to how many points scores. But

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Speaker 2: even he senses the new danger in the air.

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Speaker 4: We played in Memphis, I think, and when we were

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Speaker 4: staying there that night and I didn't hit my player prop,

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Speaker 4: which I don't know why you're betting on me, but

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Speaker 4: I got a message while we were in Memphis that

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Speaker 4: was like, hey, better not leave your hotel room to night.

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Speaker 4: And it was just like, you know what. I don't

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Speaker 4: know if that's credible or not, but regardless, I'm probably

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Speaker 4: gonna stay in my hotel room tonight.

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Speaker 2: This moment in Larry's story, it reminded me of someone

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Speaker 2: we heard from a few episodes ago, Jeff Gordon, the

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Speaker 2: recovering gambling addict. As a kid, Jeff had been a

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Speaker 2: huge basketball fan, but after he started gambling on the sport,

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Speaker 2: his love curdled into something else.

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Speaker 6: What triggered my mind that I think I have a

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Speaker 6: problem is I was pissed at the player because I

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Speaker 6: was a quarter of a point away from being in

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Speaker 6: first place and winning more money. And I was pissed

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Speaker 6: that I that that player didn't score one more basket

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Speaker 6: or you won't give more more as this, And I

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Speaker 6: just remember hating Andrea Iguidala for so long, and it's

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Speaker 6: like why.

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Speaker 2: Of course, fans have always wanted things from players, there's

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Speaker 2: nothing new about that. What's new is the tone of

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Speaker 2: their desire. Less a want, more a need.

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Speaker 4: Like you know, when you go sign autographs or something

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Speaker 4: pregame or go sign autographs for people getting on the

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Speaker 4: bus and be like, hey, how's how's Zion feeling the

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Speaker 4: night or as a nasty fall? How is he? And

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Speaker 4: you got to look at him and go like, fine,

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Speaker 4: you know, just one work fun, fine, good.

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Speaker 2: I don't know more and more what fans want is

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Speaker 2: information an edge.

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Speaker 4: There's been multiple occasions where like you can tell someone's

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Speaker 4: come up look digging for information. When you don't give

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Speaker 4: it to them, they're like come on, man, like come on,

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Speaker 4: just you know, help me out this one time, like

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Speaker 4: I don't know, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, the players always know stuff that would be useful

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Speaker 2: to gamblers. The players are also seeing gambling happening all

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Speaker 2: around them, on them to larry. It seems pretty clear

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Speaker 2: what's coming next.

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Speaker 4: I think there's gonna be a lot of players getting

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Speaker 4: in trouble. A lot, I mean a lot of players

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Speaker 4: getting in trouble.

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Speaker 2: Trouble, that's what's coming. We've already seen a trickle of it.

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Speaker 2: But the waters are rising, and you can feel the

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Speaker 2: flood on its way, and so can everyone involved in

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Speaker 2: any sport that's being gambled upon. The entire sports industrial

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Speaker 2: complex is a bit like those poor people in western

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Speaker 2: North Carolina who were told they lived in a flood

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Speaker 2: zone but had never seen a flood, and then came

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Speaker 2: the rain. One of the amazing things about the new

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Speaker 2: sports gambling industry is just how totally unconstrained it is.

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Speaker 2: Zero restrictions on advertising, for example, zero punishment for pushing

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Speaker 2: gambling on people already prone to gambling addiction, zero consequences

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Speaker 2: for designing diabolical apps that nudge gamblers into making dumber

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Speaker 2: and dumber bets. We're still at a stage where the

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Speaker 2: industry is promising to police itself, and apart from limiting

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Speaker 2: the bets of sharp sports gamblers, there is really only

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Speaker 2: one thing the industry is doing to prevent maximum havoc.

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Speaker 2: It's trying really hard to catch and punish anyone who

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Speaker 2: trades on inside information. Each and every one of the

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Speaker 2: states that have legalized sports betting also now employs a

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Speaker 2: sports betting insider trading detective. This person is called an

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Speaker 2: integrity monitor.

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Speaker 7: So all you're doing is monitoring the market for abnormalities.

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Speaker 7: When abnormalities are identified, you send those abnormalities out for

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Speaker 7: requests for information from every licensed operator in the country. Hey,

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Speaker 7: did you also see any abnormal aging here?

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Speaker 2: That's Matthew Holt who created the first so called independent

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Speaker 2: licensed integrity monitor. Because Matthew got there first, Matthew's company

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Speaker 2: took the best name, US Integrity. And so tell me

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Speaker 2: what you're monitoring in the marketplace.

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Speaker 7: For number one, and the easiest would be, Hey, Michael

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Speaker 7: bets one hundred dollars a game on average on football,

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Speaker 7: So we have a you know, we have a betting

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Speaker 7: pattern for Michael. We know he likes the bet football

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Speaker 7: usually bets one hundred to two hundred dollars, but now

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Speaker 7: he wants to bet twenty thousand dollars on the first

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Speaker 7: set of a tennis match. Hmmm, very abnormal. Or you know,

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Speaker 7: Michael bets one hundred to three hundred dollars on baseball

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Speaker 7: every day, but now he wants to bet fifteen thousand

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Speaker 7: on first round KO in an MMA match. Well, he

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Speaker 7: never bets MMA, and he never bets more than a

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Speaker 7: few hundred dollars.

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Speaker 6: Boom.

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Speaker 7: That's going to trigger someone to look into that match.

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Speaker 2: These new sports gambling companies have more data on their

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Speaker 2: customers than all the casinos in history combined. The integrity

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Speaker 2: monitor sitsts through most of it hunting for betters who

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Speaker 2: clearly know something they shouldn't.

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Speaker 7: Why are we getting all these new accounts signing up

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Speaker 7: just to bet one wager? Severe odds movement is something

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Speaker 7: that definitely triggers the system and would have an analyst

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Speaker 7: further investigate.

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Speaker 2: These integrity monitors are behind the recent uptick in sports

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Speaker 2: gambling scandals. One week, Johntae Porter of the Toronto Raptors

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Speaker 2: NBA team fakes an injury and pulls himself out of

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Speaker 2: a game so as creditors can make money betting that

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Speaker 2: he won't score as many points as he could have.

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Speaker 2: Next thing, you know, a wide receiver from the New

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Speaker 2: England Patriots named kay Jan Boudet is arrested for placing

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Speaker 2: eight nine hundred bets while he was a student at LSU.

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Speaker 2: Some of those bets were on his own games. Back

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Speaker 2: in the old days, people who argued for legalizing sports

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Speaker 2: gambling said they could prevent these kinds of scandals. Once

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Speaker 2: insider trading was easier to detect, no one would dare

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Speaker 2: do it. Well, not really. Instead, it seems that the

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Speaker 2: easier it is to trade on inside sports information, the

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Speaker 2: more insider trading there will be.

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Speaker 7: Brad Bohannon was a college baseball coach at the University

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Speaker 7: of Alabama who with a group of his friends had

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Speaker 7: got into some gambling debt and they came up with

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Speaker 7: an idea to make some money. They were playing LSU

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Speaker 7: on a Friday night when LSU was the number one

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Speaker 7: team in the country, and the coach came up with

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Speaker 7: an idea that he wouldn't tell anyone. He was going

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Speaker 7: to make a pitching change to a basically an outfielder

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Speaker 7: relief pitcher who had not started any games and didn't

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Speaker 7: have any experience.

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Speaker 2: Corrupt sports bets are a bit like weird sex acts.

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Speaker 2: You hear about them and think, nah, no way anyone

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Speaker 2: would do that. But a good rule of thumb in

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Speaker 2: life is that anything some human being has imagined, some

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Speaker 2: human being has done. And apparently some human being imagined

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Speaker 2: the college baseball coach hired to teach and improve a

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Speaker 2: bunch of young men rigging a game against his own players.

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Speaker 7: When one of the better is attempted to place a

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Speaker 7: six figures wager at a sports book, you know, the

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Speaker 7: people behind the counter started asking him questions. You know,

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Speaker 7: they realized that he was actually communicating with the coach

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Speaker 7: on the phone at the time. We were able to

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Speaker 7: collect that evidence, video, surveillant evidence and end up showing

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Speaker 7: that they were putting together a pretty big scheme and

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Speaker 7: they had four people betting in four different places.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't sound like they were that smart about it.

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Speaker 1: They weren't.

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Speaker 7: No, and at the end of the day, you know,

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Speaker 7: sometimes we joke that we certainly catch America's dumb as criminals.

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Speaker 2: That's one point about integrity monitors. They're pretty good at

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Speaker 2: catching the dumb insider traders. People who work for pro

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Speaker 2: sports teams placing bets from inside their training facilities, for example,

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Speaker 2: and they were instantly caught by the sports apps geolocation

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Speaker 2: feature and reported to the league office. I'm told that's

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Speaker 2: happened a lot, But there's just no way that everyone

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Speaker 2: trading on inside sports information is that dumb. If you

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Speaker 2: were the the Alabama coach and you were advising the

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Speaker 2: people how to place the bets so that they didn't

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Speaker 2: get detected, what would you tell them?

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Speaker 7: Number One, you want to try to place the bets

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Speaker 7: in person if possible, because you know, again, once you

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Speaker 7: sign up for an account, there's this huge digital footprint

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Speaker 7: with all of your information. Make sure that it's across

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Speaker 7: state lines.

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Speaker 2: Why do you want to make sure it's across state lines.

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Speaker 7: Because at the end of the day, and if it's

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Speaker 7: different operators across state lines. What we are seeing right

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Speaker 7: now is more competition in the integrity landscape.

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Speaker 2: The integrity landscape, I love that phrase. The integrity landscape

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Speaker 2: in sports gambling is complicated, less like a wheatfield in

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Speaker 2: Kansas than a rainforest in Borneo. There are a bunch

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Speaker 2: of companies like US and Integrity. Each state with legal

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Speaker 2: sports books hires its own integrity monitor with its own

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Speaker 2: set of data on wagers.

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Speaker 7: And let's say that I knew that there's five big

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Speaker 7: sports books, and I can use a different sports book

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Speaker 7: in each state, and of those five big sports books,

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Speaker 7: three of them use different integrity monitoring providers. Well, suddenly,

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Speaker 7: one bet at one sports book might not trigger the alert.

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Speaker 7: But if each integrity monitor only saw one or two

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Speaker 7: of the bets, and each operator also only saw one

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Speaker 7: of the bets, they're not likely to report and you're

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Speaker 7: more likely to get away with it.

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Speaker 2: Still, it's true that they're catching a lot more people

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Speaker 2: trading on inside information than ever have been caught in

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Speaker 2: the history of sports. Matthew says that they're now like

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Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty bus a year. So these integrity

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Speaker 2: monitors are kind of doing for illicit sports gambling with

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Speaker 2: the Kinsey report once did for sex, showing us all

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Speaker 2: what everybody else is doing and is there a pattern

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Speaker 2: to why they do it?

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Speaker 7: You know, it's crazy some of it. You know, it

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Speaker 7: just goes to the competitive nature of athletes in general.

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Speaker 7: When you think of like Calvin Ridley and Jamison Williams

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Speaker 7: and some of the NFL suspensions, just as examples. Those

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Speaker 7: guys were betting such inconsequential amounts of money. Calvin Ridley

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Speaker 7: was hurt. He wasn't even playing. He certainly wasn't trying

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Speaker 7: to manipulate any matches.

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Speaker 2: The insider trading is often totally irrational. I mean, you

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Speaker 2: think that a guy making millions of dollars as a

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Speaker 2: player wouldn't risk them by making sports bets. But they do.

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Speaker 2: And you would think that if they're going to take

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Speaker 2: that risk, they at least make very big bets. But

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Speaker 2: they don't.

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Speaker 7: Hunter Deckers, the starting quarterback at Iowa State who lost

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Speaker 7: his eligibility. His average bet size was seven dollars and

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Speaker 7: twenty two cents. Seven dollars and twenty two cents, and

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Speaker 7: he lost his entire collegiate career.

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Speaker 1: Why and why? I don't know. Just use boredom, I guess. Yeah.

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Speaker 7: You know, some of those guys, especially in college, lives

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00:17:16,796 --> 00:17:19,916
Speaker 7: such regimented life. You get up, you have team practice

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Speaker 7: and breakfast, and you're basically told what to do all day.

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Speaker 7: Every day is scheduled out for you. But the one

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Speaker 7: thing they can't control is those little gaps you have

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Speaker 7: in this device that's in your hands. Oh, I got

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Speaker 7: fifteen three minutes. I can't actually go anywhere and do

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Speaker 7: anything in that fifteen to eighteen minutes, but I could

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Speaker 7: take out my phone and mess around.

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Speaker 2: One way to think of sports gambling is as a

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00:17:45,036 --> 00:17:49,356
Speaker 2: massive new market for information. All sorts of information that

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Speaker 2: no one thought twice about can now be used immediately

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Speaker 2: to make money, and not just information that most people

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Speaker 2: used to pay zero attention to, like I don't know

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Speaker 2: whether the quarterback for some obscure college football team just

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Speaker 2: came down with pneumonia. I'm talking about information that would

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Speaker 2: never have occurred to anyone ever in the history of

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Speaker 2: man to have financial value.

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Speaker 7: We saw some significant betting on this basketball game. The

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Speaker 7: line move like four points.

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Speaker 2: This was a college basketball game before which the odds

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Speaker 2: shifted in a big way even though there was no

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Speaker 2: new public information.

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Speaker 7: And then one of these syndicate betters called us and said, hey,

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Speaker 7: I heard that this team is stuck on the tarmac

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Speaker 7: with mechanical issues. They're going to make it to the arena,

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Speaker 7: but not in time for warm ups. And we know

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Speaker 7: in football and basketball, if you miss your stretching slash

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Speaker 7: warm ups, those teams lose every time.

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Speaker 2: Is that true? Every time?

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Speaker 1: You know that it is.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, they lose over ninety percent of the time and

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Speaker 7: usually can't blowout fashion.

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Speaker 2: Moments after the pilot announced the delay of the team's flight,

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Speaker 2: the sports book started seeing bets from people who had

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00:18:56,196 --> 00:18:59,556
Speaker 2: obviously heard about it because it took the integrity monitor

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00:18:59,676 --> 00:19:02,876
Speaker 2: only seven minutes to get the news, and in.

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Speaker 7: That timeframe, you know, it somehow got in the hands

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Speaker 7: of syndicate betters who bet all this money, and one

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Speaker 7: of them even had time after making all those bets

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Speaker 7: to call us and give us a heads up to like, hey,

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Speaker 7: if this keeps happening, you know, here's what's going on.

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Speaker 7: Information moves so fast.

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Speaker 2: So fast that the modern world really hasn't gotten its

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00:19:24,916 --> 00:19:28,476
Speaker 2: mind around it, so fast that there's no way it

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00:19:28,556 --> 00:19:33,596
Speaker 2: won't run wild over any integrity landscape. The various sports

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Speaker 2: leagues are really trying hard to prevent this from happening.

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Speaker 2: They want to turn the American fan into a habitual gambler,

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Speaker 2: to keep everything else about American sports as it was

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Speaker 2: before gambling invaded, and well, good luck with that. First,

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Speaker 2: let's just talk about how you chose where you were

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Speaker 2: going to go, Like you could have gone to any

354
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Speaker 2: college in America. You go to Kansas, right Why.

355
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Speaker 8: I just Kansas because we had two possible weekends where

356
00:20:04,236 --> 00:20:07,156
Speaker 8: we could do this reporting trip because of our production schedule,

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Speaker 8: and I was looking for were places that had games

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Speaker 8: that were a big deal for students, like on those

359
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Speaker 8: weekends that had direct flights from like New York and California.

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Speaker 2: That's of course, lydia Jan caught my producer. I usually

361
00:20:28,476 --> 00:20:32,236
Speaker 2: hate the sort of journalism we're about to do, you know,

362
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Speaker 2: where some reporter or pundit talks to some supposedly representative

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00:20:35,956 --> 00:20:39,916
Speaker 2: person or visit some supposedly typical place to take the

364
00:20:39,956 --> 00:20:43,276
Speaker 2: pulse of the nation. But we made an exception here

365
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Speaker 2: because going to the University of Kansas felt more like

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Speaker 2: testing a scientific theory. The theory was that you could

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Speaker 2: pick any random college and so long as it had

368
00:20:53,556 --> 00:20:57,356
Speaker 2: fraternities and a football team, you'd find some huge potholes

369
00:20:57,396 --> 00:21:01,516
Speaker 2: in the integrity landscape. Right now, five hundred and twenty

370
00:21:01,636 --> 00:21:05,756
Speaker 2: thousand athletes compete in twenty four different sports at hundreds

371
00:21:05,796 --> 00:21:09,276
Speaker 2: of colleges, and you can place bets on lots of them,

372
00:21:09,876 --> 00:21:12,516
Speaker 2: not just on the teams or on the games, but

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Speaker 2: on the kids, Like whether the freshman guard on the

374
00:21:16,076 --> 00:21:18,756
Speaker 2: Temple University hoops team will score more than ten points

375
00:21:18,756 --> 00:21:22,076
Speaker 2: in tomorrow morning's game. And if you saw him passed

376
00:21:22,076 --> 00:21:24,476
Speaker 2: out at a frat party the night before, a prop

377
00:21:24,516 --> 00:21:29,636
Speaker 2: bet might seem like the opportunity of a lifetime. So

378
00:21:29,676 --> 00:21:32,956
Speaker 2: we dropped LJ at random into a college, the University

379
00:21:32,956 --> 00:21:36,316
Speaker 2: of Kansas. She'd just been basically kicked out of all

380
00:21:36,316 --> 00:21:39,196
Speaker 2: the sports books for committing the sin of placing smart

381
00:21:39,236 --> 00:21:42,356
Speaker 2: sports bets, so she now had time on her hands

382
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Speaker 2: to talk to the people the sports gambling companies just love.

383
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Speaker 8: So yeah, So the first thing I did is I

384
00:21:49,116 --> 00:21:52,156
Speaker 8: went to this kind of student coffee shop in Lawrence,

385
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Speaker 8: and I met with two student reporters, and one of

386
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Speaker 8: them was Chad Cushing. He's a multimedia editor at the

387
00:22:00,276 --> 00:22:01,236
Speaker 8: University Daily.

388
00:22:01,356 --> 00:22:04,636
Speaker 1: Cansen. It's everywhere. It's absolutely everywhere.

389
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Speaker 5: I mean any morning of the game day in class,

390
00:22:08,436 --> 00:22:11,796
Speaker 5: especially for bad basketball. I mean, the most guaranteed thing

391
00:22:11,836 --> 00:22:13,876
Speaker 5: you could say to break the ice on most if

392
00:22:13,876 --> 00:22:15,756
Speaker 5: you find another boy that you said next to is like, Hey,

393
00:22:15,956 --> 00:22:16,676
Speaker 5: what's what's the place?

394
00:22:16,956 --> 00:22:17,076
Speaker 2: You know?

395
00:22:17,076 --> 00:22:18,636
Speaker 1: What what's money line?

396
00:22:18,916 --> 00:22:19,556
Speaker 6: Money hawks?

397
00:22:19,556 --> 00:22:22,316
Speaker 5: Money line hawks? Money line people get That's Ben Hook.

398
00:22:22,356 --> 00:22:27,236
Speaker 8: He's a sophomore and the sports editor like tattoos.

399
00:22:27,476 --> 00:22:29,156
Speaker 6: So money line is they win out right.

400
00:22:29,276 --> 00:22:30,756
Speaker 1: It's just you ticking the winner.

401
00:22:31,156 --> 00:22:33,636
Speaker 5: And if if the Hawks are going to win, the

402
00:22:33,716 --> 00:22:35,596
Speaker 5: Jayhawks are going to win Hawks money line.

403
00:22:35,636 --> 00:22:37,796
Speaker 1: People get Hawks money line like tattoos.

404
00:22:37,876 --> 00:22:39,756
Speaker 8: Many people get Hawks money line tattoos.

405
00:22:39,796 --> 00:22:43,236
Speaker 5: I've seen crazy. Yeah, I means Hawks money line. Yeah

406
00:22:43,316 --> 00:22:44,796
Speaker 5: on the yeah, on the inside.

407
00:22:45,436 --> 00:22:47,556
Speaker 9: Yeah, Hawks, I'm made.

408
00:22:47,556 --> 00:22:49,596
Speaker 1: I'm made good money on Hawks money long last year.

409
00:22:51,316 --> 00:22:54,236
Speaker 2: So so you you talk to the journalists, and the

410
00:22:54,316 --> 00:22:55,796
Speaker 2: journalists lead you to the real people.

411
00:22:56,516 --> 00:22:58,316
Speaker 8: Yes, they tell me that where I need to be

412
00:22:58,796 --> 00:23:01,556
Speaker 8: is in the in this place called.

413
00:23:01,476 --> 00:23:05,196
Speaker 2: The Triangle like that like the Bermuda Triangle.

414
00:23:05,716 --> 00:23:08,156
Speaker 8: Exactly, and it's three bars kind of in the middle

415
00:23:08,196 --> 00:23:12,396
Speaker 8: of nowhere, like not near anything else that don't really card.

416
00:23:12,596 --> 00:23:14,836
Speaker 8: So like I heard that freshmen work as the bouncers

417
00:23:14,876 --> 00:23:16,876
Speaker 8: of these bars, and they'll accept anything as an id,

418
00:23:17,116 --> 00:23:18,236
Speaker 8: even like a Pokemon card.

419
00:23:20,916 --> 00:23:23,356
Speaker 2: Taking me back, You're taking me way back. You're taking

420
00:23:23,356 --> 00:23:24,956
Speaker 2: you back to it as like twelve years old in

421
00:23:24,996 --> 00:23:25,636
Speaker 2: New Orleans.

422
00:23:25,756 --> 00:23:28,396
Speaker 8: And I'm supposed to be there at like in the

423
00:23:28,436 --> 00:23:31,916
Speaker 8: Friday afternoon because they have something called free beer Fridays.

424
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Speaker 2: And So Friday afternoon, before the big game against arch

425
00:23:35,916 --> 00:23:39,836
Speaker 2: rival Kansas State, Lydia Jean enters the Bermuda Triangle.

426
00:23:40,356 --> 00:23:41,436
Speaker 10: Hod Buck come back.

427
00:23:41,516 --> 00:23:43,756
Speaker 2: Why but it's a good clot.

428
00:23:44,796 --> 00:23:46,996
Speaker 8: The fraternities have set up these tables in front of

429
00:23:47,036 --> 00:23:51,796
Speaker 8: the bars where they have plates of shaving cream, and

430
00:23:51,876 --> 00:23:54,556
Speaker 8: if you pay five dollars, you can throw the plate

431
00:23:54,596 --> 00:23:57,276
Speaker 8: onto their faces. Uh huh, I guess to raise money

432
00:23:57,276 --> 00:23:57,916
Speaker 8: for cancer.

433
00:23:58,756 --> 00:24:01,436
Speaker 2: One day someone will study all the things Americans have

434
00:24:01,516 --> 00:24:04,756
Speaker 2: done to raise money for cancer research and notice that

435
00:24:04,876 --> 00:24:06,756
Speaker 2: some of them almost certainly cause cancer.

436
00:24:07,636 --> 00:24:10,676
Speaker 8: So there's like long line outside of these bars, and

437
00:24:10,716 --> 00:24:14,276
Speaker 8: then there's people congregating around these tables of shaving cream plates.

438
00:24:14,436 --> 00:24:16,636
Speaker 2: Okay, how are you feeling in this crowd?

439
00:24:16,956 --> 00:24:17,116
Speaker 4: Oh?

440
00:24:17,196 --> 00:24:17,676
Speaker 10: Terrified?

441
00:24:17,796 --> 00:24:18,916
Speaker 2: Absolutely terrified.

442
00:24:21,996 --> 00:24:25,236
Speaker 8: Yeah, Like every single cell in my body was like,

443
00:24:25,316 --> 00:24:26,156
Speaker 8: do not be here.

444
00:24:26,436 --> 00:24:31,356
Speaker 2: But I did my best to stay. I knew she'd stay.

445
00:24:31,596 --> 00:24:33,996
Speaker 2: I've said this before and I'll say it again. My

446
00:24:34,116 --> 00:24:38,516
Speaker 2: producer has the gift forgetting the story. People forget just

447
00:24:38,596 --> 00:24:39,756
Speaker 2: how dangerous she is.

448
00:24:40,476 --> 00:24:42,316
Speaker 8: Are you guys winning overall?

449
00:24:42,596 --> 00:24:43,036
Speaker 4: Probably not?

450
00:24:43,156 --> 00:24:47,516
Speaker 5: Probably, I've got a lot of cats.

451
00:24:47,596 --> 00:24:50,996
Speaker 2: Up in fun though, Like, how do cut down?

452
00:24:51,036 --> 00:24:52,916
Speaker 1: Are we talking overall?

453
00:24:53,636 --> 00:25:02,116
Speaker 6: Yeah? I'm talking hundreds, probably in the lower hundreds, I

454
00:25:02,116 --> 00:25:03,276
Speaker 6: would say, lower hundreds.

455
00:25:03,596 --> 00:25:04,876
Speaker 3: Know what's your guys' strategy.

456
00:25:05,076 --> 00:25:06,396
Speaker 10: It's wedding strategy.

457
00:25:06,756 --> 00:25:09,396
Speaker 11: I am just wait for someone who's due, and then

458
00:25:09,396 --> 00:25:11,076
Speaker 11: you just hammer it.

459
00:25:13,516 --> 00:25:16,516
Speaker 2: Two related points here, most of these people are under

460
00:25:16,516 --> 00:25:19,396
Speaker 2: twenty one years old, so whoever's accepting their bets is

461
00:25:19,396 --> 00:25:22,956
Speaker 2: breaking Kansas state law. Also, none of them have any

462
00:25:22,996 --> 00:25:26,516
Speaker 2: idea what they're doing. Still, it's obviously a total blast.

463
00:25:26,836 --> 00:25:30,036
Speaker 2: Everyone's just hammering everything while getting hammered. You ought to

464
00:25:30,036 --> 00:25:33,676
Speaker 2: make the Kansas mascot a hammer. Are they at all

465
00:25:33,796 --> 00:25:35,436
Speaker 2: nervous about talking about what they're doing?

466
00:25:35,876 --> 00:25:38,436
Speaker 8: So I will say that I eventually started being like,

467
00:25:39,036 --> 00:25:40,996
Speaker 8: don't tell me your names, because when I asked them,

468
00:25:41,156 --> 00:25:43,356
Speaker 8: I originally I would say, can you introduce yourself? And

469
00:25:43,396 --> 00:25:45,276
Speaker 8: then that I kind of felt like I was getting

470
00:25:45,276 --> 00:25:49,276
Speaker 8: like marketing material, like it's so bad what they're doing

471
00:25:49,276 --> 00:25:51,076
Speaker 8: to the youth or whatever. So eventually I was like,

472
00:25:51,196 --> 00:25:54,276
Speaker 8: don't tell me your name and tell me about sports

473
00:25:54,276 --> 00:25:57,316
Speaker 8: setting and then the interviews got a lot better. But

474
00:25:57,436 --> 00:25:59,556
Speaker 8: before I went to the Triangle, I actually spoke to

475
00:25:59,596 --> 00:26:01,676
Speaker 8: this guy who used to be on the football team.

476
00:26:02,196 --> 00:26:03,196
Speaker 2: His name is Jack.

477
00:26:03,116 --> 00:26:07,116
Speaker 10: Jackson being friends with people who weren't athletes. To'd be like, oh, like,

478
00:26:07,196 --> 00:26:09,476
Speaker 10: what do you think about Do you think we're gonna

479
00:26:09,476 --> 00:26:11,396
Speaker 10: blah blah blah blah blah, Like are we gonna cover it?

480
00:26:11,636 --> 00:26:13,556
Speaker 2: You feel like people were like trying to, like in

481
00:26:13,556 --> 00:26:14,436
Speaker 2: this squirrely.

482
00:26:14,156 --> 00:26:17,316
Speaker 10: Way, get yes, yes, yes, and k you did a

483
00:26:17,396 --> 00:26:20,076
Speaker 10: very good job of media training every single one of us,

484
00:26:20,356 --> 00:26:22,396
Speaker 10: even like my closest friends. They'd be like, oh, what's

485
00:26:22,436 --> 00:26:24,276
Speaker 10: like the game plan? I'd be like, I don't know.

486
00:26:24,396 --> 00:26:26,636
Speaker 10: I can't tell you, Like, I'm not gonna get in

487
00:26:26,676 --> 00:26:28,156
Speaker 10: trouble over something silly.

488
00:26:29,996 --> 00:26:32,916
Speaker 2: There are a few laws that ban insider trading in sports.

489
00:26:33,756 --> 00:26:36,116
Speaker 2: You can't get put in jail for it or even fine.

490
00:26:36,756 --> 00:26:38,716
Speaker 2: You can only get in trouble with your team, or

491
00:26:38,756 --> 00:26:42,876
Speaker 2: your school, or your league, or of course your sports bookie.

492
00:26:43,076 --> 00:26:45,916
Speaker 2: He'll toss you out if you win too much. And

493
00:26:45,996 --> 00:26:48,196
Speaker 2: so the players might feel a bit frightened to share

494
00:26:48,236 --> 00:26:52,156
Speaker 2: inside dope, but the fans, they have no reason not

495
00:26:52,236 --> 00:26:53,756
Speaker 2: to dig for whatever they can find.

496
00:26:54,716 --> 00:26:57,436
Speaker 8: I found this one guy, for example, who told me

497
00:26:57,516 --> 00:27:00,596
Speaker 8: that his roommate was on the football team and that

498
00:27:00,676 --> 00:27:03,116
Speaker 8: he was planning to bet on the game. Are gonna

499
00:27:03,116 --> 00:27:05,356
Speaker 8: ask your former roommate for anie like intel on the player.

500
00:27:05,676 --> 00:27:09,596
Speaker 11: Yeh yeah, yeah, Well he's in uh drive there right now,

501
00:27:09,636 --> 00:27:11,516
Speaker 11: he's on the bus, So I'm gonna text him layer

502
00:27:11,516 --> 00:27:12,796
Speaker 11: and I'd be like, what sha I put money on?

503
00:27:12,956 --> 00:27:14,596
Speaker 8: He think he'll tell you? He'll tell you anything.

504
00:27:14,596 --> 00:27:15,556
Speaker 11: Oh yeah, he definitely will.

505
00:27:15,556 --> 00:27:16,796
Speaker 10: Oh oh yeah, he definitely.

506
00:27:18,316 --> 00:27:19,356
Speaker 9: He always does.

507
00:27:19,676 --> 00:27:21,556
Speaker 8: Because what he tell you helped me make money.

508
00:27:21,716 --> 00:27:23,676
Speaker 11: A couple of them were in college than lad because

509
00:27:23,676 --> 00:27:25,396
Speaker 11: he's college athletes, so he knows a lot more things

510
00:27:25,396 --> 00:27:25,836
Speaker 11: than I do.

511
00:27:26,436 --> 00:27:28,716
Speaker 2: But like NFL, he doesn't know shit right, you're right.

512
00:27:28,676 --> 00:27:30,236
Speaker 8: But he's a player, so if he tells you stuff

513
00:27:30,236 --> 00:27:32,396
Speaker 8: about the team, he'll know that's correct, and that has

514
00:27:32,436 --> 00:27:33,156
Speaker 8: helped you make money.

515
00:27:33,156 --> 00:27:35,156
Speaker 11: Before fifty bucks.

516
00:27:36,636 --> 00:27:39,356
Speaker 8: I went up to a lot of people and I

517
00:27:39,396 --> 00:27:41,756
Speaker 8: heard so often that they had some way of getting

518
00:27:41,756 --> 00:27:43,676
Speaker 8: inside information. A lot of times they like had me

519
00:27:43,676 --> 00:27:46,276
Speaker 8: turn off the mic that I was actually googling how

520
00:27:46,316 --> 00:27:48,076
Speaker 8: many people are on the football team because I was like,

521
00:27:48,116 --> 00:27:50,436
Speaker 8: how is it possible that they're talking to so many

522
00:27:50,476 --> 00:27:52,676
Speaker 8: people that everyone feels like they have some sort of

523
00:27:52,676 --> 00:27:54,876
Speaker 8: in on the football team. So, like I have tape

524
00:27:54,876 --> 00:27:56,916
Speaker 8: of me saying like have you ever gotten inside information?

525
00:27:57,316 --> 00:27:59,436
Speaker 8: And the guy is like three times and then he

526
00:27:59,516 --> 00:28:05,276
Speaker 8: runs away. Do you think would you say, like, mind

527
00:28:05,316 --> 00:28:06,876
Speaker 8: that information about people on the team.

528
00:28:06,956 --> 00:28:08,396
Speaker 10: Is that anything that I've been saris.

529
00:28:08,676 --> 00:28:18,156
Speaker 2: To play their No, here's one bet I'd like to

530
00:28:18,196 --> 00:28:21,516
Speaker 2: make DraftKings. Make me a market on the number of

531
00:28:21,556 --> 00:28:24,436
Speaker 2: sports bets that get placed each week on college football

532
00:28:24,476 --> 00:28:27,716
Speaker 2: games by college students who think they have inside information.

533
00:28:28,556 --> 00:28:30,796
Speaker 2: I don't mean winning bets. It's actually not as easy

534
00:28:30,836 --> 00:28:33,196
Speaker 2: as it looks to make money trading on inside information.

535
00:28:34,116 --> 00:28:36,276
Speaker 2: I just want the over on bets that threaten the

536
00:28:36,276 --> 00:28:42,476
Speaker 2: integrity landscape. It's it's so preposterous, right We think, oh,

537
00:28:42,516 --> 00:28:45,636
Speaker 2: the bad guys, they got them, and then every roommate

538
00:28:45,676 --> 00:28:48,796
Speaker 2: of every football player in the United States is getting

539
00:28:48,796 --> 00:28:49,596
Speaker 2: inside information.

540
00:28:50,116 --> 00:28:51,636
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, I just felt I went up to a

541
00:28:51,636 --> 00:28:52,676
Speaker 8: guy with a mic and I was like, do you

542
00:28:52,676 --> 00:28:54,756
Speaker 8: have inside information? And he was like, I'm texting for

543
00:28:54,796 --> 00:28:55,356
Speaker 8: it right now.

544
00:29:04,076 --> 00:29:06,716
Speaker 2: How do we refer to you in the podcast? Governor Baker,

545
00:29:07,156 --> 00:29:09,116
Speaker 2: President Baker, Charlielie?

546
00:29:09,196 --> 00:29:09,756
Speaker 1: Is that all right?

547
00:29:11,356 --> 00:29:15,276
Speaker 2: This is Charlie Baker, former governor of Massachusetts who recently

548
00:29:15,316 --> 00:29:18,876
Speaker 2: became president of the NCAA, which has got to be

549
00:29:18,916 --> 00:29:21,956
Speaker 2: at least in the running for the world's worst job.

550
00:29:22,756 --> 00:29:25,276
Speaker 2: But Charlie took it and did the same thing he

551
00:29:25,316 --> 00:29:28,756
Speaker 2: did when he became governor of Massachusetts. He hit the

552
00:29:28,796 --> 00:29:31,916
Speaker 2: road and talked to people to hear their problems.

553
00:29:32,396 --> 00:29:35,236
Speaker 12: We have colleges all over New England and just started

554
00:29:35,236 --> 00:29:37,476
Speaker 12: talking to him about what was on their minds, and

555
00:29:37,796 --> 00:29:41,036
Speaker 12: a lot of them brought up not so much sports betting,

556
00:29:41,076 --> 00:29:42,716
Speaker 12: but the harassment around it.

557
00:29:43,596 --> 00:29:46,836
Speaker 2: Charlie heard so many complaints and so soon after he

558
00:29:46,876 --> 00:29:48,796
Speaker 2: took the job that he commissioned to study.

559
00:29:49,316 --> 00:29:51,036
Speaker 1: The numbers came back and they were huge.

560
00:29:51,036 --> 00:29:54,316
Speaker 12: You know, sixty percent of eighteen to twenty two year

561
00:29:54,316 --> 00:29:56,276
Speaker 12: olds about on sports, and the numbers were higher for

562
00:29:56,316 --> 00:29:59,276
Speaker 12: those that were on college campuses. That just puts college

563
00:29:59,316 --> 00:30:03,396
Speaker 12: athletes basically in the midst of a whole community that

564
00:30:03,636 --> 00:30:06,276
Speaker 12: is betting on sports. Whether they're betting on their games

565
00:30:06,396 --> 00:30:08,796
Speaker 12: or betting on other people's games, they're betting on sports.

566
00:30:09,116 --> 00:30:11,516
Speaker 12: A lot of the kids on campus better on their

567
00:30:11,556 --> 00:30:15,276
Speaker 12: own teams, why because they're more familiar with them. They

568
00:30:15,316 --> 00:30:17,116
Speaker 12: think they know them better, and they think it's a

569
00:30:17,116 --> 00:30:18,556
Speaker 12: better opportunity for them to win.

570
00:30:18,636 --> 00:30:20,396
Speaker 2: And the athletes you were talking to when you first

571
00:30:20,476 --> 00:30:23,196
Speaker 2: took the job. Some of them brought up the pressures

572
00:30:23,276 --> 00:30:24,836
Speaker 2: caused by the gambling interests.

573
00:30:24,916 --> 00:30:30,356
Speaker 12: Oh absolutely, it was just all kinds of trash being

574
00:30:30,436 --> 00:30:33,476
Speaker 12: talked at them based on their performance and how much

575
00:30:33,516 --> 00:30:36,516
Speaker 12: somebody lost or how much it costs somebody, or I'll

576
00:30:36,556 --> 00:30:40,036
Speaker 12: meet you outside your dorm the next time I see you,

577
00:30:40,116 --> 00:30:43,836
Speaker 12: And I mean really just awful stuff.

578
00:30:45,796 --> 00:30:49,516
Speaker 2: The NCAA now has filing cabinets filled with horrible things

579
00:30:49,556 --> 00:30:52,716
Speaker 2: that sports gamblers have said and done to college athletes.

580
00:30:53,636 --> 00:30:55,676
Speaker 2: I was hoping Charlie would let me rifle through them,

581
00:30:56,116 --> 00:30:58,756
Speaker 2: but he wouldn't. But still I got a glimpse of

582
00:30:58,756 --> 00:31:02,476
Speaker 2: what's inside from the guy who guards them. His name

583
00:31:02,556 --> 00:31:06,916
Speaker 2: is Clint hunker Brow. He's Charlie's head of risk management,

584
00:31:07,676 --> 00:31:08,596
Speaker 2: which is another job.

585
00:31:08,596 --> 00:31:11,676
Speaker 1: You really what we see messages.

586
00:31:12,076 --> 00:31:15,556
Speaker 13: One that we flagged this last year during our workaround

587
00:31:15,556 --> 00:31:19,556
Speaker 13: March Madness is if you don't get twenty two points

588
00:31:19,596 --> 00:31:23,716
Speaker 13: and twelve rebounds, everyone you know and love will be dead.

589
00:31:24,316 --> 00:31:27,636
Speaker 13: So it's a far cry from normal fandom. You know,

590
00:31:27,956 --> 00:31:31,356
Speaker 13: you suck, I hope you lose the game, and you

591
00:31:31,396 --> 00:31:35,116
Speaker 13: know others that we've seen, and I apologize for the language,

592
00:31:35,236 --> 00:31:38,316
Speaker 13: but you know, we heard about one over March Madness

593
00:31:38,396 --> 00:31:41,716
Speaker 13: that was kill yourself for taking that three, you fucking

594
00:31:41,796 --> 00:31:45,556
Speaker 13: worthless loser, Slit your fucking throat, and it goes on

595
00:31:45,676 --> 00:31:46,036
Speaker 13: from then.

596
00:31:46,116 --> 00:31:46,996
Speaker 1: Jesus.

597
00:31:48,036 --> 00:31:52,156
Speaker 13: So again, it's not just oh, gosh, you cost me

598
00:31:52,396 --> 00:31:55,356
Speaker 13: fifty bucks or things that are pretty innocuous like that.

599
00:31:55,916 --> 00:31:59,876
Speaker 13: They're very specific, they're very threatening. You know, we've heard

600
00:32:00,036 --> 00:32:03,596
Speaker 13: about a lot of student athletes receiving Benmo requests after

601
00:32:03,676 --> 00:32:06,956
Speaker 13: games where it's like, you know, you f and this

602
00:32:07,116 --> 00:32:09,996
Speaker 13: you f and that you cost me five thousand, pay

603
00:32:10,076 --> 00:32:12,956
Speaker 13: up or I'll be waiting for you outside the facilities.

604
00:32:12,956 --> 00:32:18,716
Speaker 13: So just really really specific, abusive, threatening messages with clearly

605
00:32:18,716 --> 00:32:20,556
Speaker 13: a gambling neccess to them.

606
00:32:21,156 --> 00:32:23,836
Speaker 2: The NCAA has pushed for all the states that allow

607
00:32:23,916 --> 00:32:28,796
Speaker 2: prop bets on college athletes to eliminate those bets. Very

608
00:32:28,796 --> 00:32:32,436
Speaker 2: few have done so, and Charlie Baker keeps hearing these

609
00:32:32,476 --> 00:32:33,276
Speaker 2: horror stories.

610
00:32:34,276 --> 00:32:36,476
Speaker 12: A kid will talk to me about, you know, having

611
00:32:37,276 --> 00:32:40,516
Speaker 12: a dorm mate, a fraternity brother, a friend of a

612
00:32:40,556 --> 00:32:42,556
Speaker 12: friend who comes up to him and says, look, you

613
00:32:42,556 --> 00:32:45,036
Speaker 12: know I need the money and I don't want you

614
00:32:45,076 --> 00:32:45,796
Speaker 12: to lose the game.

615
00:32:45,836 --> 00:32:46,716
Speaker 1: All you really need to.

616
00:32:46,716 --> 00:32:48,956
Speaker 12: Do is just don't take the first shot, you know,

617
00:32:49,076 --> 00:32:50,236
Speaker 12: miss your first free throw.

618
00:32:50,476 --> 00:32:54,116
Speaker 1: Just you know, small stuff. That's all I need to you.

619
00:32:54,276 --> 00:32:57,276
Speaker 2: It may seem trivial if some college basketball player misses

620
00:32:57,276 --> 00:33:00,516
Speaker 2: his first free throw in a game, and until roughly

621
00:33:00,556 --> 00:33:03,156
Speaker 2: five years ago, no one would have thought twice about it.

622
00:33:03,756 --> 00:33:06,356
Speaker 2: But now you could bet tens of thousands of dollars

623
00:33:06,396 --> 00:33:08,516
Speaker 2: on whether or not that free throw is good.

624
00:33:09,156 --> 00:33:12,316
Speaker 1: And the problem with that is there's no end to that.

625
00:33:12,676 --> 00:33:17,236
Speaker 12: And you never want, especially an eighteen year old or

626
00:33:17,276 --> 00:33:19,276
Speaker 12: a seventeen or nineteen year old, to be put in

627
00:33:19,316 --> 00:33:23,316
Speaker 12: a position where they're being socially pressured by people they're

628
00:33:23,356 --> 00:33:26,276
Speaker 12: going to see every single day who are claiming that

629
00:33:26,356 --> 00:33:29,996
Speaker 12: this is a moment of desperation for them.

630
00:33:30,196 --> 00:33:33,076
Speaker 2: Back in the nineteen seventies, Charlie Baker played hoops at Harvard.

631
00:33:33,836 --> 00:33:36,076
Speaker 2: He wasn't on the team at the time, but in

632
00:33:36,156 --> 00:33:39,756
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy eight, Harvard lost a shockingly close game to

633
00:33:39,836 --> 00:33:43,716
Speaker 2: a much stronger Boston College team. It turned out that

634
00:33:43,796 --> 00:33:46,636
Speaker 2: several of the Boston College players had taken money from

635
00:33:46,676 --> 00:33:50,716
Speaker 2: the Lukes crime family to shave points to make the

636
00:33:50,756 --> 00:33:54,716
Speaker 2: final score much closer than it should have been. Fixing

637
00:33:54,796 --> 00:33:57,636
Speaker 2: games is, of course, the ultimate act of insider trading.

638
00:33:58,636 --> 00:34:02,476
Speaker 2: The gambler knows for sure what will happen. But the

639
00:34:02,476 --> 00:34:06,116
Speaker 2: Boston College players still screwed up. They won a game

640
00:34:06,196 --> 00:34:08,716
Speaker 2: or two by too much, and the mafia allegedly sent

641
00:34:08,756 --> 00:34:13,716
Speaker 2: them amat message you can't play basketball with broken hands. Still,

642
00:34:13,756 --> 00:34:17,356
Speaker 2: the Boston College players successfully rigged the Harvard game, and

643
00:34:17,436 --> 00:34:20,396
Speaker 2: after it they got caught. One was sentenced to prison

644
00:34:20,396 --> 00:34:23,276
Speaker 2: for a decade. But that was just a weird, one

645
00:34:23,316 --> 00:34:26,956
Speaker 2: off example. Now, the same kind of force is everywhere

646
00:34:27,036 --> 00:34:30,076
Speaker 2: in sports. It's just the mob that's different.

647
00:34:30,796 --> 00:34:33,756
Speaker 12: It could be people who are you know, who live

648
00:34:33,796 --> 00:34:36,196
Speaker 12: in the dorm next to you. It could be people

649
00:34:36,196 --> 00:34:39,796
Speaker 12: who live right off campus and walk through campus when

650
00:34:39,836 --> 00:34:42,676
Speaker 12: you walk past every single day when I talked to them.

651
00:34:42,716 --> 00:34:43,716
Speaker 1: The biggest thing.

652
00:34:43,596 --> 00:34:48,916
Speaker 12: About it is the challenge associated with not looking over

653
00:34:48,956 --> 00:34:52,276
Speaker 12: your shoulder or not assuming that anybody you don't know

654
00:34:52,516 --> 00:34:54,956
Speaker 12: could be one of these people, or the people you

655
00:34:55,036 --> 00:34:56,756
Speaker 12: do know could be some of these people.

656
00:34:59,076 --> 00:35:01,756
Speaker 2: So here we are in a new world where college

657
00:35:01,796 --> 00:35:04,436
Speaker 2: athletes walk around their campuses with just a little bit

658
00:35:04,476 --> 00:35:07,516
Speaker 2: of the same uneasy feeling as the Boston College players

659
00:35:07,596 --> 00:35:10,236
Speaker 2: must have had when they pissed off the look crime family.

660
00:35:11,196 --> 00:35:13,316
Speaker 2: And the only question really is just how much that

661
00:35:13,396 --> 00:35:14,636
Speaker 2: feeling will be amplified.

662
00:35:15,516 --> 00:35:18,836
Speaker 1: So we're just getting into this space.

663
00:35:19,076 --> 00:35:20,716
Speaker 12: And that's the other thing I'd say when people say

664
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Speaker 12: to me, well, social media has always been obnoxious and nasty,

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00:35:23,396 --> 00:35:26,996
Speaker 12: that's true, but boy, in this world it has gotten

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00:35:27,036 --> 00:35:29,676
Speaker 12: a lot nastier in the course of the past couple

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Speaker 12: of years.

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Speaker 2: My heart is palputating Clint Hunkerbrow again, Charlie's risk officer.

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Speaker 13: You know, I think that the biggest worry that keeps

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00:35:39,716 --> 00:35:43,556
Speaker 13: me up at night is really looking, you know, ten

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00:35:43,636 --> 00:35:46,996
Speaker 13: years down the road, twenty years down the road back

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00:35:47,156 --> 00:35:52,876
Speaker 13: and there's a whole generation of young people that you know,

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00:35:52,956 --> 00:35:57,956
Speaker 13: went to college and ultimately found themselves gambling and had

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00:35:58,196 --> 00:36:02,636
Speaker 13: just extremely negative consequences on their lives, from their finances

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00:36:02,676 --> 00:36:05,076
Speaker 13: to their aspirations to their relationships.

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00:36:05,956 --> 00:36:07,676
Speaker 1: Like we're failing a generation.

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Speaker 13: If that's what we look back at ten to twenty years,

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00:36:11,116 --> 00:36:16,036
Speaker 13: and that's the picture that we see.

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00:36:14,356 --> 00:36:18,716
Speaker 2: The integrity landscape in sports gambling. Here's maybe its most

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00:36:18,756 --> 00:36:23,196
Speaker 2: important feature. How hard it is to see all this

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00:36:23,236 --> 00:36:25,716
Speaker 2: new stuff is going on around us. But it's not

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00:36:25,796 --> 00:36:29,476
Speaker 2: like drinking or smoking or even drug use, even as

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00:36:29,476 --> 00:36:34,636
Speaker 2: sports gambling poisons the relationship between fans and athletes, even

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00:36:34,636 --> 00:36:38,596
Speaker 2: as it seeps like a fog into American college life,

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00:36:38,876 --> 00:36:43,556
Speaker 2: the drug itself is invisible. But in this strange new landscape,

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00:36:43,676 --> 00:36:54,116
Speaker 2: one thing is clear what it lacks. Integrity Against the

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00:36:54,236 --> 00:36:56,516
Speaker 2: Rules is written and hosted by me Michael Lewis and

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00:36:56,556 --> 00:37:00,876
Speaker 2: produced by Lydia Genet, Catherine Gerardeau, and Ariela Markowitz. Our

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00:37:01,036 --> 00:37:04,636
Speaker 2: editor is Julia Barton. Our engineer is Jake Gorski. Our

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00:37:04,716 --> 00:37:07,876
Speaker 2: music was composed by Matthias Bossi and John Evans of

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00:37:07,916 --> 00:37:11,916
Speaker 2: stell Wagon Cinfinet. Our fact checker is Lauren vest Polling.

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00:37:13,116 --> 00:37:16,676
Speaker 2: Against the Rules is a production of Pushkin Industries. To

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Speaker 2: find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

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00:37:21,196 --> 00:37:25,196
Speaker 2: Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you'd

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00:37:25,236 --> 00:37:27,556
Speaker 2: like to listen to ad free and learn about other

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00:37:27,636 --> 00:37:31,036
Speaker 2: exclusive offerings, don't forget to sign up for a Pushkin

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00:37:31,116 --> 00:37:35,796
Speaker 2: Plus subscription at pushkin, dot fm, slash Plus or on

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00:37:35,876 --> 00:37:38,396
Speaker 2: our Apple show page.

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00:37:45,476 --> 00:37:47,876
Speaker 8: How do you like decide what.

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Speaker 1: To put money on?

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00:37:48,636 --> 00:37:49,156
Speaker 12: What was your.

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00:37:50,796 --> 00:37:52,716
Speaker 9: I think you kind of gotta like do some research.

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00:37:52,796 --> 00:37:59,316
Speaker 9: I a lot of Twitter research, got yeah, emotions, emotions.

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00:37:59,356 --> 00:38:04,156
Speaker 9: Yet it's a lot Twitter people like on Twitter that do,

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00:38:04,316 --> 00:38:05,676
Speaker 9: like do act actual.

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00:38:05,436 --> 00:38:06,076
Speaker 1: Research on it.

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Speaker 8: And are you and you said you're doing You've done

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Speaker 8: pretty well.

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Speaker 1: No, I've done terrible.

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Speaker 9: M