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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, we are back on. Normally the show with

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Speaker 1: normalish takes, but when the nuts gets weird. I am

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Speaker 1: Mary Catherine, him and I am Carol Markowitz.

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Speaker 2: Show us your Dolly partner. Sure, Mary Cath's right here.

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Speaker 2: She like it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's under a blazers.

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Speaker 2: Look. That's exactly what Dolly would have liked.

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Speaker 1: Right, This is business casual. I think that's what they

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Speaker 1: call it.

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Speaker 2: I said, would have like, she's not with us, she

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Speaker 2: is with us. I'm just saying if she had seen it, she.

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Speaker 1: Would have liked it. Should I ever have the privilege

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Speaker 1: of running into her, which my daughters always say that

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Speaker 1: the only time I would faint is if I ran

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Speaker 1: into Dolly Parton, which is probably true.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, she's it. She's like one of the

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Speaker 2: few that I'd be really excited to meet.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's a genuine star sighting. She shows

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Speaker 1: up at Dollywood sometimes, so she'll just be around at

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Speaker 1: the park or at the hotels. So someday I think,

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Speaker 1: some day.

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Speaker 2: You know, double family trip to Dollywood.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it. There we go, let's do it. That's

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Speaker 1: on the agenda, But also on the agenda today, a

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Speaker 1: very large news story in the Atlantic this week broke

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Speaker 1: the story about how editor in chief of The Atlantic,

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Goldberg, who you will remember probably as the guy

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Speaker 1: who wrote the Suckers and Losers story about what Trump

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Speaker 1: allegedly said about troops. I have never bought that story

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Speaker 1: because it had no named sources. Yep, we can get

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Speaker 1: to the credibility of him in the near future. But

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Speaker 1: that guy wrote a story revealing that on March eleventh,

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Speaker 1: he was added to a signal group chat signals an

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Speaker 1: encrypted message service, a group chat with all the heavy

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Speaker 1: hitters of the Trump administration national security world, including Vice

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Speaker 1: President J. D Vance, Innesa, Mike Waltz, Marco Rubio, Secretary

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Speaker 1: of State Telsea Gabbard, d and I. The list goes on.

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Speaker 1: I believe Ratcliffe was on there too, had a CIA,

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Speaker 1: and to various extents, these people in this chat started chatting,

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Speaker 1: and he started paying attention, wondering why am I on

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Speaker 1: this group chat? And he pays attention enough that he thinks, Hmm,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure this is a hoax, Like this may

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Speaker 1: be real. So they do some investigating about this, and

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Speaker 1: it turns out that the way he verifies that it

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Speaker 1: is real is that there are details about the most

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Speaker 1: recent military conditions against the Houties in Yemen. And he decides, Hey, well,

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Speaker 1: I guess if this timing that I'm getting in this

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Speaker 1: group chat is correct, then I can run with this

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Speaker 1: scoop and I'm not being tricked. And it turns out

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Speaker 1: then indeed the attacks happened as the chat said they would. Oh,

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Speaker 1: Pete Hegseth, Secretary of Defense is there as well, and

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Speaker 1: so he writes this story, and I think, okay, So

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Speaker 1: he writes the story. We'll get into the how he

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Speaker 1: handled that as we go forward. The timeline from there

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Speaker 1: goes that Trump is asked about it, says he hasn't

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Speaker 1: heard about this, doesn't know about it. On the first day,

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Speaker 1: the various deputies are called into a already scheduled house

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Speaker 1: hearing on intel issues.

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Speaker 2: Well, they might must have been so mad about that.

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Speaker 1: So mad. The next day they are all grilled about it.

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Speaker 1: And now they've been talking on TV and such, and

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Speaker 1: we will deal with who's taking responsibility, who's not, how

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Speaker 1: this is playing out. But that's the timeline of this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, by the way, the strikes went extremely well. Nothing

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Speaker 1: was disrupted, partly because of the way Goldberg reported this story,

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Speaker 1: So that's great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So also I should note that that story broke

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Speaker 2: shortly after we recorded Tuesday's episode, because I knew immediately

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Speaker 2: people would be like on Tuesday, like, how could you

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Speaker 2: guys not mention the SignAll story? Yeah, you just don't

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Speaker 2: want to talk about it. Although I was quiet a

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Speaker 2: little bit on the X platform because I like a

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Speaker 2: lot of these stories.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to see where it went.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to see how it played out. And Pete

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Speaker 2: Deucy already made the joke that I immediately thought was

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Speaker 2: you know, immediately about it was well, they did promise

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Speaker 2: to be the most transparent White House ever. Yeah, So

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Speaker 2: there are several issues at hand, So starting with should

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Speaker 2: the administration officials be communicating via signal at all? And

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of talk about whether signal is secure.

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Speaker 2: I can tell you definitively that it's secure. When you

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Speaker 2: don't add someone who shouldn't be in the group chat,

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Speaker 2: that makes it more secure. Whether they're allowed to do

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Speaker 2: that or not is a question. I believe we have

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Speaker 2: a clip to that effect.

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Speaker 4: Yes.

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Speaker 1: John Rotcliffe, head of the CIA, talked about this in

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Speaker 1: front of the House yesterday.

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Speaker 3: So that we're clear. One of the first things that

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Speaker 3: happened when I was confirmed as CIA director was signal

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Speaker 3: was loaded onto my computer at the CIA, as it

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Speaker 3: is for most CIA officers. One of the things that

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Speaker 3: I was briefed on very early, Senator was by the

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Speaker 3: CIA records management folks about the use of signal as

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Speaker 3: a permissible work use. It is that is a practice

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Speaker 3: that preceded the current administration to the Biden ministry, so that.

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Speaker 1: Is an important mitigating factor that One thing I do

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Speaker 1: not like about any Trump news cycle is that everyone

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Speaker 1: acts as if everything is unprecedented, right, when in fact

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Speaker 1: you find out shortly after that it's not. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: does not mean I think the use of signal is

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Speaker 1: wise just because the Biden administration did it, and that

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Speaker 1: should be part of the discussion. And also it doesn't

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Speaker 1: mitigate the fact that a giant mistake was made, right.

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Speaker 2: I think that, Yeah, that is where a lot of

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Speaker 2: these stories should start, even on the right. I think

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Speaker 2: that the people who are saying or trying to say

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Speaker 2: this is not a big deal, it is absolutely a

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Speaker 2: big deal. I don't have a problem with them communicating

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Speaker 2: on signal, although I don't know the ins and outs

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Speaker 2: of signal deletes the conversations. I don't think that they're

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Speaker 2: allowed to do that. I don't know you know the

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Speaker 2: rules around that. But the actual communicating with each other

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Speaker 2: on signal is not my problem with it. It's that

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Speaker 2: I would not say anything in a group chat where

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Speaker 2: I did not know every single phone number in that

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Speaker 2: group chat, and let me tell you, I would check.

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Speaker 2: So that is a huge issue to me.

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Speaker 1: Well, and some allege, okay, there's dirty tricks at hand here.

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Speaker 1: Somehow he got into the chat, but Mike Waltz added

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Speaker 1: him to the chat, so he had the number. He

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Speaker 1: is a very important guy, a very smart, a guy

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Speaker 1: I like, by the way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the others. We'll get to this in a bit.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, the liking people is a side.

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Speaker 1: Issue, you know. So I think he's a smart guy

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Speaker 1: who's been an intel in military circles for a long time.

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Speaker 1: He should have known better than to do this. He

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Speaker 1: should have known better than creating the group and not

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Speaker 1: triple checking.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like it was a staffer.

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Speaker 1: But although he did say when Laura Ingram asked him

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Speaker 1: on TV, you know, was it a staffer? And he's

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Speaker 1: he said I'm not blaming this on a staffer. I

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Speaker 1: am taking responsibility for this, but it does.

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Speaker 2: Sound like it was a staffer. I'm just saying it

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Speaker 2: wasn't actually Mike Waltz who warmed.

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Speaker 1: The group regardless, like somehow someone had this contact the

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Speaker 1: row will gun in their big mistake and something that

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Speaker 1: any more adversarial person or country would have made much

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Speaker 1: more hay with, could have done much more damage with,

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Speaker 1: and that the head of the CIA and all these

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Speaker 1: other important people should be on the lookout for. There

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Speaker 1: are tons of people who want to take you, guys,

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Speaker 1: and Jeffrey Goldberg was actually the least of your worries

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Speaker 1: on this occasion.

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Speaker 2: Turns out he handled it actually quite maturely. So you know, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they don't have much room here to say. I get

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Speaker 2: that they're attacking the press and that's going to be

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Speaker 2: the defensive posture of the Trump administration. I don't blame

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Speaker 2: them for a lot of that, but in this particular case,

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Speaker 2: I don't see that Jeffrey Goldberg misplayed this other than

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Speaker 2: is he allowed to release this information. That's also going

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Speaker 2: to be another story. Well, it's happening as we're recording

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Speaker 2: this episode. The conversation has become whether these were war plans,

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Speaker 2: and he released the chats so people can see whether

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Speaker 2: or not they are war plans.

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Speaker 1: And the thing is, I agree with Hegseth on the

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Speaker 1: point that Goldberg has dealt in all sorts of hoaxes before.

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Speaker 1: As I said, I have never bought the suckers and

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Speaker 1: loser story because it's never been substantiated by anyone named.

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Speaker 1: And I thought he was really playing fast and loose

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Speaker 1: with that one. But here's the thing, this one is verifiable,

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Speaker 1: and an NSA spokesperson said as much before they started

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Speaker 1: attacking Goldberg as their defense of this, And so what

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Speaker 1: you've done actually is, in this case, he gets this

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Speaker 1: golden goose scoop that he was handed on a silver platter,

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Speaker 1: and his credibility has gone up skyward as a result.

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Speaker 1: The Trump administration then basically dared him to really he's

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Speaker 1: the rest of the text because he had withheld some

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Speaker 1: saying like this was so detailed that I don't feel

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Speaker 1: comfortable having it out there. They allege, hey, Goldberg could

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Speaker 1: be mischaracterizing this, and then the Atlantic is like, well,

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Speaker 1: if you guys say it's not classified and everything's fine,

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Speaker 1: then here it is. So now we have the more

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Speaker 1: detailed texts, and they're quite detailed.

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Speaker 2: Right, So I'm going to read two tweets saying that

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Speaker 2: these texts are not a big deal. The first one

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Speaker 2: is from white Mike Waltz. He posts no locations, no

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Speaker 2: sources and methods, no war plans. Foreign partners had already

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Speaker 2: been notified that strikes for imminent. Bottom line, President Trump

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Speaker 2: is protecting America.

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Speaker 1: And our interests.

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Speaker 2: And then my friend David Reeboy, who works in the

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Speaker 2: foreign policy space, tweets, Okay, so the Atlantic released what

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Speaker 2: they call the war plans. They're depending on people not

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Speaker 2: knowing or caring what this is, but to refer to

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Speaker 2: it that way as a stretch. There's nothing specific here

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Speaker 2: other than times at which events will occur. This kind

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Speaker 2: could alert the enemy, but doesn't tell them anything about

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Speaker 2: what's coming where, or how to prepare for it. Nothing burger.

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Speaker 2: I have to say, from a normy perspective, this still

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Speaker 2: seems like a something burger.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And the thing is it was the details came

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Speaker 1: right before the strike, so it wasn't as if disrupting

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Speaker 1: the stress would have been very difficult. Yes, what I'm

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Speaker 1: concerned about is that if you think this is a

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Speaker 1: nothing burger and you're working with eminent war plans on

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Speaker 1: a regular basis, I think I can't remember who said it,

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Speaker 1: but this is like the one termite you see, and

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Speaker 1: like behind the scenes, they may there may be a

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Speaker 1: bunch more issues here with how people are communicating. So look,

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Speaker 1: it's clear that no head is going to roll. Although

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Speaker 1: I think it could be a thing that you could

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Speaker 1: tender a resignation over again, even though I like the

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Speaker 1: people involved, where you could go, I really messed this up.

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Speaker 1: This is embarrassing to the administration. It could have been dangerous,

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Speaker 1: Thank goodness it wasn't. And then the president can say, no,

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Speaker 1: I trust you, I want to keep you on.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There's another level of that, though, where you can say, hey,

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Speaker 1: we need to actually brush up on our digital security protocols.

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Speaker 1: You can even throw a dig in at the A.

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Speaker 1: Biden administration and be like, we shouldn't use what we inherited.

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Speaker 1: Clearly this is not a good way of doing things.

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Speaker 1: So here are the ways that we are going to

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Speaker 1: fix this moving forward, And here are the ways that

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Speaker 1: I'm taking responsibility for it and maybe even taking a

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Speaker 1: little ding on my record in my file that a

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Speaker 1: normally lower level intel person would get right, because I

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Speaker 1: don't think that they should be held accountable. But higher

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Speaker 1: ups are not right.

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Speaker 2: They should be the grown ups in the room and

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Speaker 2: say this happened. It's clearly a giant, giant mistake. We're

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Speaker 2: going to get to the bottom of how this happened.

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Speaker 2: We learn, we move on. You know, the story would

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Speaker 2: probably be over by now had they done that, and

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Speaker 2: they didn't, So then there's the next thing about this

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Speaker 2: is how everyone came off in the actual conversation. Steve

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Speaker 2: Hexeth came off as very decisive and strong. You know,

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Speaker 2: this is what we have to do.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it.

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Speaker 2: I like JD Vince quite a bit. I didn't love

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Speaker 2: his comments in this chat, like when he said that

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Speaker 2: only three percent of American trade runs through the Suez Canal.

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Speaker 2: I looked it up. In twenty twenty four, the United

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Speaker 2: States had a total trade value of goods and services

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Speaker 2: estimated around five point four trillion in total. Three percent

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Speaker 2: of that. I'm not going to do the math, guys,

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Speaker 2: but it's still pretty high. And so I don't think

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Speaker 2: we should just let you know the hutis attack our ships. Yes,

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Speaker 2: Europe he's complete JD's completely right that Europe, who has

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Speaker 2: forty percent of their trade through the Suez, should obviously

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Speaker 2: be doing more. And we've over the last you know,

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Speaker 2: sixty years or so, have just let Europe skate on

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Speaker 2: handling all of their problems for them. And yes, I

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Speaker 2: get the frustration with Europe, absolutely, but I just generally

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Speaker 2: didn't like his posture in those texts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the thing is when I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: somebody getting punished, I'm arguing against interests because it would

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Speaker 1: be someone I agree with, exactly as opposed to Datie Vance,

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Speaker 1: who I don't agree with. I think, to me, what

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Speaker 1: the conversation illustrated. Obviously there are different forces in this

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Speaker 1: administration that are going to be arguing with each other.

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Speaker 1: They seem to be mature about the way they're arguing

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Speaker 1: with each other. Vance to me, is very much Podcast

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Speaker 1: Vance in the chat Right Podcast Vance is probably just

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Speaker 1: Vance right, and he's he feels very free to say

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Speaker 1: these are the ways that I don't think this is

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Speaker 1: a good idea. I am a little surprised not that

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Speaker 1: he's committed to his form of certainly more isolationist theory.

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Speaker 1: I'm a fan of I'm not surprised he's committed. I

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Speaker 1: am a little surprised that something like trade lit lanes

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Speaker 1: being open and free would not fall in American interest

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Speaker 1: for it.

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Speaker 2: Completely agree with because that's it.

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Speaker 1: We've been hit, We've been targeted. I think Rubio said

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Speaker 1: the other day one hundred plus times during the Biden administration,

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Speaker 1: Tim now.

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Speaker 2: We can't keep taking that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So that that surprised me. I agree.

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Speaker 2: I also was surprised that he took kind of a

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Speaker 2: shot at President Trump. He said that Trump was sending

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Speaker 2: mixed messages to Europe and he didn't, you know, he

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Speaker 2: didn't want to continue that in case with this strike.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know, it's funny that actually that's not

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Speaker 2: a story at all, because I know it's like people

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Speaker 2: are trying to get a scalp and they know they're

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Speaker 2: not going to get Vance's, so they just are letting

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Speaker 2: him kind of skate on those comments.

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Speaker 1: Well, and to that point, do you think Vance is

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Speaker 1: speaking out of hubris in that chat or is he

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Speaker 1: speaking out of utter confidence that Trump just likes him

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Speaker 1: and that, by the way, that's the bottom line, and

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Speaker 1: all these guys Trump likes all of them.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I also didn't like in the chat how they focused

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Speaker 2: on how things look and how they to message this.

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Speaker 2: And I get that. Look, my background's in pr I

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Speaker 2: understand that messaging has to be tight. I understand how

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Speaker 2: important it is for the American people to understand the missions.

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Speaker 2: But you do the right thing for the country that

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Speaker 2: you think is the right thing for the country, and

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Speaker 2: you'd be ready to take the shots if you're wrong.

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Speaker 2: The focus on how this is going to look, I

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Speaker 2: didn't love that either.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The other thing is I think often Vance might

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Speaker 1: be more on the side of the American public than

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Speaker 1: I am when it comes to how much we're going

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Speaker 1: to do intervention in other places. I'm not as hawkish

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Speaker 1: as I used to be, for sure, but I am

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Speaker 1: more hawkish than he is. I think in this case,

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Speaker 1: the American people don't really have an issue with occasional

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Speaker 1: bombing runs that very specifically take out very specific targets

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Speaker 1: and don't cost us a lot of blood and treasure.

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Speaker 2: Right, We're not doing boots on the ground here. We're

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Speaker 2: trying to reopen a ceiling. So yeah, And of course,

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Speaker 2: obviously people are using this to take shots at people

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Speaker 2: that they dislike. Personally that's been right away. There was

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Speaker 2: some internal strife about Waltz, who you know, again with

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Speaker 2: the isolationists, he maybe's on the opposite side, although I

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Speaker 2: think these terms don't really make sense for this conflict,

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Speaker 2: because you can be an isolationist but still want to

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Speaker 2: have trade with places around the world and need to

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Speaker 2: have those trade lanes open. So Waltz was immediately a

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Speaker 2: target of that isolationist right. Of course, the left is

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Speaker 2: having a field day. They might even be possibly overshooting

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Speaker 2: all of this, people like Congressman Eric Swalwell saying that

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Speaker 2: Hegsath should resign. Swalwell had a full on relationship with

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Speaker 2: a Chinese spy and remains in Congress, so maybe he

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Speaker 2: does not have room to lecture anyone on accountability.

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Speaker 1: Well, and I think people have definitely have a point

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Speaker 1: when they say, oh, nobody was mad about Oh, I

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Speaker 1: don't know the hoodie's actually hitting us all of these times, right,

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Speaker 1: And I was like that, yes, people should have been

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Speaker 1: more mad about that. Or they'll say Mark Milly was

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Speaker 1: you know, giving back channel to the CCP saying like

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Speaker 1: if the president gets out of hand, I'll I'll deal

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Speaker 1: with it, right and saying nobody got mad about that,

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Speaker 1: both fair criticisms about what people were not mad about.

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Speaker 1: I reserve the right to be mad that this giant,

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Speaker 1: boneheaded mistake was made about national security.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so, And it's good and normal to criticize

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Speaker 2: your own side, and normal is the name of the

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Speaker 2: game here.

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Speaker 1: He also ran on holding people accountable, and like he

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Speaker 1: has a Trump has a strange relationship with that because

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Speaker 1: he is the you're fired guy, and then he's also

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Speaker 1: very loyal. Yeah, he doesn't want to fire them. So

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Speaker 1: the last administration, you had a bunch of dust ups

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Speaker 1: and a bunch of people who got rid of for

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Speaker 1: their that's kind of really redneck for the reason that

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Speaker 1: he didn't really trust or know any of the those

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Speaker 1: people to begin with. This time, the people he chose

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Speaker 1: he mostly likes and knows and trust.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, I but I think it's a bad contrast with Biden,

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Speaker 1: or it's bad not to contrast with yourself with Biden

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Speaker 1: in this case, by going like someone has to be

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Speaker 1: punished for this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and still I hope that they don't, that none

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Speaker 2: of these people get fired.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: It's this whole, this real balance thing where it's only

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Speaker 2: March they've only been in office three months. I like

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Speaker 2: this team. I want to see what they.

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Speaker 1: Do, so and tell me. But tell me how you're

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Speaker 1: going to clean it up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, tell tell me how you're going to fix it

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Speaker 2: and never let this happen again. Yeah, I mean, check

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Speaker 2: the numbers and the text.

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Speaker 1: Guys.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of an easy.

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Speaker 1: One also, just to just to put it out there

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Speaker 1: because all the conspiracy theories have become true in the

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Speaker 1: last five years. Waltz is like, I don't know Goldberg,

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Speaker 1: I don't know why I had his number. We're looking

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Speaker 1: into that right now. I always picking competence over malice

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Speaker 1: in these situations.

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Speaker 2: We're same sure.

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Speaker 1: However, in the past five years often the malice has

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Speaker 1: been the thing that's competence. So just I'm just putting

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Speaker 1: it out there that that's what he said. Now, if

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Speaker 1: there's no basis in that, then that's irresponsible for him

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Speaker 1: to be putting it out there. Goldberg at one point

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Speaker 1: said they had met in passing, but he was surprised

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Speaker 1: that he would be on his contact.

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Speaker 2: List, right, I mean, I have a lot of contact

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Speaker 2: of people I don't like. Like, it's not that's not

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Speaker 2: a crazy thing to do in our world, like, actually,

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Speaker 2: you have their numbers so that you specifically don't text

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Speaker 2: with them, Like, but it just red flag next to me,

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Speaker 2: you know, not to answer their calls.

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Speaker 3: Come on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The theory, by the way, the working theory, which

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Speaker 1: I think is correct, is that the person that was

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Speaker 1: meant to be on the chat was Jamison Greer, us

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Speaker 1: trade representative, who would naturally have been on a chat

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Speaker 1: about trade lanes and the need to go to military

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Speaker 1: operations to protect me. Jamison must have been like, why

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Speaker 1: is nobody calling me? One thing I do think is

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Speaker 1: problematic about this that sort of takes it another step

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Speaker 1: for the administration. Everything disappears in three days anyway. But

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Speaker 1: people understand being on the wrong thread or yeah, texting

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Speaker 1: the wrong thread. And yesterday on nationwide country music syndicated

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Speaker 1: morning show, they were doing a segment about when have

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Speaker 1: you texted the wrong person in the past? For sure?

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Speaker 2: Look who among us? And you know there's been stories

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Speaker 2: in the past where people tried to DM somebody and

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Speaker 2: they ended up posting it on X like again, who

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Speaker 2: among us? We've all done it. I would say that

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Speaker 2: my two normy world reactions that I've heard are from

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Speaker 2: two different kinds of people. One who are saying, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, absolutely this has happened to me. I totally

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Speaker 2: get it. And then from the people who are like,

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Speaker 2: I check, you know, when it's a bridesmaid's trip, I

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Speaker 2: check every single number to make sure we have the

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Speaker 2: right people on it. And I don't want to send

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Speaker 2: it to a stranger.

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Speaker 1: And you know, yeah, I am. I have done this.

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Speaker 1: And also if I were a high level intel person

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Speaker 1: with imminent war plans, I would be better at it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you take a class from the bachelorette party girl. That's right,

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Speaker 1: that's right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll be right back on. Normally, there was a

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Speaker 2: Wall Street Journal piece about how women are not getting married,

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Speaker 2: and of course these pieces run so often. I cover

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Speaker 2: them a lot on my other show, Carol Markowitz Show,

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Speaker 2: And actually I had it in my monologue yesterday about

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Speaker 2: this Wall Street Journal piece. But basically, the numbers are

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Speaker 2: just collapsing. People are neither partnered nor married. Share of

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Speaker 2: women age eighteen to forty who are single that is

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Speaker 2: neither married nor cohabitating was fifty one percent in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty three. That number was forty one percent in two thousand,

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Speaker 2: So that number is just getting higher and higher, and

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Speaker 2: it's obviously a giant problem.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think we have a civilizational problem

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Speaker 1: if people don't know how to pair off and create families.

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Speaker 1: The data simply says over and over and over again

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Speaker 1: that two parent families raising children are the best for

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Speaker 1: people's their stability, for economics, for the economic well being

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Speaker 1: of the household, for future earnings, for happiness, like all

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Speaker 1: these things, everything again arguing against interest. I was a

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Speaker 1: single mom for several years. I think I did a

439
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,399
Speaker 1: very good job at it. But I cannot be a

440
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 1: mother and a father at the same time, and so

441
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:28,199
Speaker 1: creating these families should be a priority, not just for

442
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,680
Speaker 1: the future of the civilization, which is like imperative people

443
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 1: used to get that, but also for people's happiness. We're

444
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,719
Speaker 1: having a connection crisis and people are unable to figure

445
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,640
Speaker 1: out how not to be lonely, and that's very concerning

446
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:43,919
Speaker 1: to me.

447
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 2: So I completely agree, and the fact that people can't

448
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,639
Speaker 2: figure out how not to be lonely is top of

449
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 2: my priority list of what the kind of stuff that

450
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 2: I like to talk about and write about. Recently had

451
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 2: a column in The New York Post about how friendship

452
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 2: is just you know, those numbers have also plummeted. People

453
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 2: just don't have friends anymore. The number of people who

454
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:10,120
Speaker 2: say they have zero friends has skyrocketed. So it's not marriage,

455
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 2: and it's not just you know, having kids, it's the

456
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 2: whole thing. They don't date, they don't get married, I mean,

457
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 2: they don't have friends. All of this is an ongoing problem.

458
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 2: I think a lot of these articles and a lot

459
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 2: of the studies focused on the financial side of it.

460
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 2: I just don't think that tells the whole story. I've

461
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 2: never met a woman and I'm talking ever who's like

462
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 2: I am so career orientated that I don't want to

463
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 2: meet a man. Every career orientated woman I know wants

464
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 2: to meet someone. And what I end up arguing in

465
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,199
Speaker 2: you know, in Carol Marko would show is that I

466
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 2: think that when women don't meet a partner, then yes,

467
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 2: they lean more into their career. So it wasn't the

468
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 2: career that stopped them in the first place. It's that

469
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 2: they didn't find anyone and their career was what they

470
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 2: turned to. Yeah.

471
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,640
Speaker 1: I noticed a couple of things in this story. One, uh,

472
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: the only woman quoted who is pursuing a promising relationship

473
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: got into that relationship or says she's in a promising

474
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 1: relationship got into that relationship via a setup from friends.

475
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: I think. I don't think that the apps don't work

476
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: for anyone. I have plenty of friends who got married

477
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 1: from the apps. However, it is an argument for a

478
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: return and encouraging the traditional ways of meeting in uh,

479
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: you know, affinity groups of friends where you're going to

480
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 1: an actual bar or bowling alley for a party and

481
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 1: you meet somebody there, the gym, your friends, a church.

482
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: These things are really very good.

483
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love if you go up. I love setting

484
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 2: people up. I you know, if anybody wants to be

485
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 2: set up, you let me know.

486
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

487
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm any good at it, but

488
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: I need to make sure I'm there for my friends

489
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: in this way, because I do think that's I was

490
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 1: set up with my husband by a wonderful neighbor who

491
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 1: quote assessed both of us, and I think rightly said

492
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: I think you can handle him, and I think you

493
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: can handle her. Yeah, that was her big pitch. The

494
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: other thing I noticed here is that you know, there's

495
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,719
Speaker 1: one woman in this story in particular, who's just letting

496
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 1: politics take over your life. Yeah, and be everything and

497
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: therefore prevent you or cause you to catastrophize and prevent

498
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 1: you from living life is really unhealthy. And I'm just

499
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: going to read a little bit of this. Rachel, a

500
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: thirty three year old real estate agent and Savannah Georgia,

501
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: said she broke up with her boyfriend with whom she

502
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 1: shares a five year old son, over a year ago

503
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 1: because she was tired of doing most of the childcare,

504
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,479
Speaker 1: cooking scheduling while are also earning almost double of her

505
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: boyfriend's cellary. That's a whole other issue, right. She has

506
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: yet to date anyone else, in part because she worries

507
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: about living in a red state with a six week

508
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 1: abortion band. I have a child that I can't leave

509
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 1: behind to drive to Virginia if I had a privatecy scare,

510
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 1: and I definitely can't afford another child as a single mom.

511
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: She said, this is I'm going to borrow a phrase

512
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 1: from bethany single for a reason, Like does it that

513
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: story made me very sad?

514
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is depressing, and it's like there are ways

515
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 2: to not get pregnant, I've heard.

516
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: And she's an independent, smart lady.

517
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 2: Right, We're going to take a short break and come

518
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 2: right back with Normally, March madness is going on, and

519
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 2: that's apparently a college basketball tournament and I'm joking. I

520
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 2: actually it's on in the background of my life all

521
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 2: the time.

522
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: And by the way, a good place to meet men. Yes,

523
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 1: March madness.

524
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, Ladies, get out there well. Saint John's in

525
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 2: New York lost a close game to Arkansas in the

526
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 2: second round, and actually I was rooting for Saint John's

527
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,199
Speaker 2: because my other's forty girlfriend, Kirsten Fleming told me to

528
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 2: you and you and Kirston are my my main, my

529
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 2: main sports girls. So Saint john lose sadly, and their

530
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 2: star player R J. Lewis Junior, he was Big East

531
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 2: Player of the Year, did not have a good game

532
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 2: and was benched toward the end. The abuse that he

533
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 2: got after the game was so bad that he deactivated

534
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 2: his Instagram account. And it seems like the NCAA knew

535
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 2: this kind of thing goes on because they ran this ad.

536
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: A few days before the game.

537
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 2: Let's roll the clip.

538
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 4: There's losing, but then there's being the loser. Game time

539
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 4: comes with enough pressure. Way too often people are betting

540
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 4: on sports losing and taking it out of the athletes.

541
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 4: Only a loser would harass college athletes after losing a bet,

542
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 4: but it happens almost every day. Root for your team,

543
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 4: get crazy when the buzzer sounds, but don't harass anyone

544
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 4: because you lost the bet. It's time we draw the

545
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 4: line and put an end to the abuse brought to

546
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 4: you by the NCAA.

547
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 2: The fact that they need to say that.

548
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this is a combo of more frequent

549
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: and common ubiquitous really sports betting plus social media, because

550
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: what happens with social media is like, look, if people

551
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: have been complaining about the quarterback for years, by the way,

552
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 1: I know that's football, not basketball, the point guard for years, Yes,

553
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: but you couldn't always funnel that complaining straight to the guy.

554
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: You could him. You had to call a sports radio

555
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: talk show and like maybe he'd hear it in passing

556
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: right right, And so now you can just go to

557
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 1: the source. And that is not a healthy outcome or impulse.

558
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: It just don't do it.

559
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, people have lost their minds in general. Our friend

560
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 2: Kat Timp she had this great line that like I've

561
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 2: never been watching TV and said, I have to go

562
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 2: find this actor or personal TV and tell them that

563
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 2: they're ugly.

564
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: It has never happened to me. I have never had

565
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: that sensation.

566
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 2: I've I need to find this person and tell them

567
00:28:58,720 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 2: they suck.

568
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: A sports fan and also a real softy. So like

569
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: when even when the opposing kicker I need him to

570
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: miss a kick, I'm saying football because I'm a big

571
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: football fan. Yeah, I was a big basketball fan, but

572
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: now that I have four children, there's too many basketball

573
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: games to watch. Yeah, So even when I need the

574
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,719
Speaker 1: kicker to miss, I'm sad for him. Yeah he missed.

575
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: And I go the opposite direction when it comes to

576
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: sports and famous people is if I think you were good,

577
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: that's when I'll reach out and say, hey, I really

578
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: enjoyed your work. Like, let's just turn it around, guys,

579
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: let's turn it around a nice Southern lady Mary, I

580
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: will say, I think now that the nil stuff is happening,

581
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: the name, image and likeness, and a lot of these

582
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: guys are getting paid like pro sports stars and people

583
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: are a lot more money is at stake here. Yeah,

584
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: that's where some of the stakes are higher, and so

585
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: people are going to get madder. That's part of what's

586
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: coming along with this.

587
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 2: Right, and I get that, but I still just think,

588
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 2: like a culture, this is so insane to me, and

589
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 2: the whole thing of like just because someone's famous or

590
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 2: just because someone's rich, you get to like say the

591
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 2: worst possible things to them.

592
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: I hate it.

593
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 2: I think there should be pressure to stop people from

594
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 2: doing it. I look, if somebody comments on my post

595
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 2: and I don't, like, you know, really something vicious, like,

596
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 2: I will go find them, like, I will find them,

597
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 2: I will tweet their name, like, I think we need

598
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 2: to stop this kind of thing.

599
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure we've both gotten it before, and I

600
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: will amplify when something's particularly bad to just say like,

601
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: this is the kind of stuff we get. And I'm

602
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: just like very low wrung famous, like it's not even

603
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: though it's the nerdiest level of famous niche, right, people

604
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: still will be like, oh, I'm super mad at her.

605
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, my middle.

606
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 2: Son calls it mildly famous. You are mildly famous.

607
00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: My children only think it's cool that I have a

608
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: Wikipedia entry for some reason. That really gets them.

609
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 2: Yeah I don't have one, and I love.

610
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: That mine is a really outdated picture. That's how you

611
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: know I'm not in charge of it.

612
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 2: So thanks for joining us on normally. Normally airs Tuesdays

613
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 2: and Thursdays, and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts.

614
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 2: Get in touch with us at normallythepod at gmail dot com.

615
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and when things get weird, act normally