Speaker 1: But We Loved is a production of iHeart Podcasts and
Speaker 1: The Outspoken podcast Network.
Speaker 2: Pulse was one of the first places I think I
Speaker 2: ever held hands with someone that I had a crush
Speaker 2: on without looking over my shoulder first, and I think
Speaker 2: Pulse was that for so many people. I remember one
Speaker 2: of the first times I walked into Pulse, and it
Speaker 2: was like an oasis. I saw people being themselves in
Speaker 2: a way that I never would have dared in my hometown.
Speaker 2: I saw people experiencing unbridled joy. I saw people experiencing
Speaker 2: maybe love for the first time. It captured this beautiful
Speaker 2: sense of normal that I thought, as queer people, and
Speaker 2: certainly queer people of color, we would never be afforded
Speaker 2: in the world.
Speaker 1: As a gay kid, growing up religious and in the South,
Speaker 1: I thought being gay was the worst thing I could
Speaker 1: ever be. Now, as a journalist, I'm trying to unlearn
Speaker 1: that by seeking out our history, and what I've found
Speaker 1: are people and stories full of courage, perseverance, and love.
Speaker 1: In this episode, I talked to Brandon Wolfe, a survivor
Speaker 1: of the Pulse nightclub shooting, about his safe space before
Speaker 1: and after Pulse for My Heart Podcasts. I'm Jordan and
Speaker 1: solve this and this is what we loved. Queer safe
Speaker 1: spaces are maybe as old as time. Some of the
Speaker 1: first one to be documented actually date back to the
Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds. In London, queer people would gather in secret
Speaker 1: homes and taverns. Because homosexuality was a criminal offense back then,
Speaker 1: they called these spaces molly houses. Molly was a slur
Speaker 1: used to describe gay men. These places were important for
Speaker 1: queer people who otherwise felt lonely and isolated. It gave
Speaker 1: them space to be with other people like them. I
Speaker 1: first felt that when I was twenty one years old.
Speaker 1: I'd been out for less than a year. I had
Speaker 1: just moved to San Francisco for work, and I met
Speaker 1: the most amazing group of queer friends. They were confident
Speaker 1: and secure and proud to be gay. It was honestly
Speaker 1: the opposite of who I was. I remember my friends
Speaker 1: took me to this club called bad Lands. It was
Speaker 1: in the gay district of San Francisco called the Castro.
Speaker 1: Always packed and smelt like beer and cheap fog from
Speaker 1: this fog machine that they had, and my first night
Speaker 1: there was magical. Rihanna was blasting and vodka Sota was flowing.
Speaker 1: The feeling of hearing the music pulsating through my body
Speaker 1: and looking over at my best friends who were dancing
Speaker 1: like maniacs was indescribable. It wasn't just the club that
Speaker 1: made me feel safe, though, it was my friends. I
Speaker 1: felt so accepted by them. My next guest, Brandon Wolf,
Speaker 1: also found this gift of a safe space when he
Speaker 1: was a young gay man in Orlando. He wrote about
Speaker 1: it in his book A Place for Us, which also
Speaker 1: details his experience surviving the Pulse nightclub shooting. But we
Speaker 1: didn't focus on the shooting in this interview. Instead, I
Speaker 1: wanted to know how he thinks of safe spaces, especially
Speaker 1: now that Pulse is gone. And grew up black and
Speaker 1: gay in a rural part of Oregon, often describing his
Speaker 1: childhood as deeply lonely. Like me, he felt isolated as
Speaker 1: a queer child in a conservative environment. It left him
Speaker 1: desperate to find a place where he could feel free
Speaker 1: and safe to be himself. Okay, so why don't we
Speaker 1: start off with something a little broad. What was it
Speaker 1: like growing up in rural organ as a gay person?
Speaker 2: What's funny about my journey is I went to this
Speaker 2: high school in a very small town in the middle
Speaker 2: of the woods. The probably the biggest day of the
Speaker 2: year was bring your tractor to School Day. Everybody looked
Speaker 2: forward to roll in the John Deere up in the
Speaker 2: school parking lot. Like that gives you a sense of
Speaker 2: the community that I grew up in. When I was
Speaker 2: in high school, our student body had just shy of
Speaker 2: two thousand students, and of those two thousand students when
Speaker 2: I graduated, eleven black, and there was an even smaller
Speaker 2: number of students that were openly LGBTQ. As you can imagine,
Speaker 2: it was difficult to live in that community. It was
Speaker 2: difficult to be in a place where people don't love
Speaker 2: a lot like you, and then for me to be
Speaker 2: a queer person of color where people didn't really look
Speaker 2: a lot like me either. It was really isolating. It
Speaker 2: was so lonely at times when I would look around
Speaker 2: and would wonder whether or not there were other people
Speaker 2: out there like me, whether or not there were spaces
Speaker 2: where we could be authentically ourselves, whether or not there
Speaker 2: were places where we could feel safe to hold hands
Speaker 2: with the people we had a crush on, or to
Speaker 2: wear our shortest short sort of skinniest pair of jeans,
Speaker 2: and in large part that search for safety and belonging
Speaker 2: has marked much of my journey.
Speaker 1: I also just kind of wonder just for the listeners
Speaker 1: to kind of get a picture of what you were like.
Speaker 1: Were there some queer quirks about you as a kid.
Speaker 1: I know, for me, I was gay as hell in theater.
Speaker 1: Oh I was.
Speaker 2: So gay, very gay. I mean, so, you know, I'm
Speaker 2: thinking about a moment when we were working on the
Speaker 2: senior yearbook and it was like a badge of honor
Speaker 2: to win as many superlatives as possible, right, And I
Speaker 2: remember I won three different superlatives and one of them
Speaker 2: was most School Spirit. And I remember showing up to
Speaker 2: my Most School Spirit day in like this was then,
Speaker 2: you know, early two thousands, and so I'm wearing like
Speaker 2: four multi colored polos over the top of each other,
Speaker 2: all popped collars, and they're all like different colors of
Speaker 2: the rainbow. I mean, it was like the gayest thing
Speaker 2: you've ever seen. I think that pretty much encapsulates it.
Speaker 2: I was definitely very queer, even if I wasn't comfortable
Speaker 2: saying that out loud, and I was like trying to
Speaker 2: mask it. The truth is like there was no hiding it.
Speaker 2: I was just very gay.
Speaker 1: When did you know you were gay? Was it when
Speaker 1: you were in high school? Or did Was it sort
Speaker 1: of after that?
Speaker 2: Oh, it was actually before that. I first began to
Speaker 2: reckon with my sexual orientation. In middle school. One day
Speaker 2: I was in a history class and this boy named
Speaker 2: Andy got up, and I don't remember, he was having
Speaker 2: some conversation with his friends, and for the first time ever,
Speaker 2: I looked at Andy and realized that I also had
Speaker 2: a crush on him. I remember being just horrified by
Speaker 2: that experience. I was confused, I was upset. I knew
Speaker 2: that my parents would be disappointed in me. I had
Speaker 2: a sense that the church that I went to would
Speaker 2: be disappointed in me. I think that probably happened in
Speaker 2: seventh or eighth grade, when I really first had a
Speaker 2: moment of I think I might be a little bit
Speaker 2: different from other kids, and I might have a word
Speaker 2: to describe what that different is.
Speaker 1: That is so interesting. I think for me, I grew
Speaker 1: up super conservative as well, and it took me a
Speaker 1: while to actually admit it to myself. When did you
Speaker 1: admit it to yourself? Was it at that moment?
Speaker 2: You know? I grappled with it. At first, I knew
Speaker 2: what the word was, I knew what the experience was.
Speaker 2: And it's worth noting that, you know, I gave away
Speaker 2: my age, probably just a little bit. But the time
Speaker 2: that I was coming of age, middle late middle high
Speaker 2: school was the kind of the birth of social media
Speaker 2: and engagement in that way on the Internet, and so
Speaker 2: a lot of my initial experiences with being a queer
Speaker 2: young person were on like AOL chat rooms, and then
Speaker 2: that morphed into my space. I don't know that I
Speaker 2: really admitted to myself who I was or what I
Speaker 2: was going through, but I wanted to explore my sexuality,
Speaker 2: and so it was really the end of middle school
Speaker 2: beginning of high school that I started playing with the
Speaker 2: idea of, you know, being a gay, queer person in
Speaker 2: this country. But I don't know that I used those
Speaker 2: words to describe myself until later. It was probably sophomore
Speaker 2: junior year of high school when I really said I
Speaker 2: think something might be different about me, and I want
Speaker 2: to use a word to describe that.
Speaker 1: When you say that it was isolating growing up, tell
Speaker 1: me more about that.
Speaker 2: What was that like When I was ten or eleven
Speaker 2: years old, it was sixth grade. The very beginning of
Speaker 2: sixth grade, my mom passed away of cancer. She was
Speaker 2: probably my first out. I didn't have a word for that,
Speaker 2: but I came to understand later in life that the
Speaker 2: way that she loved me unconditionally, the way that she
Speaker 2: showed compassion and respect for me, no matter how fruity
Speaker 2: I was, was the signal that she was going to
Speaker 2: be an ally. And losing her at such a young
Speaker 2: age I think began that sense of isolation for me.
Speaker 2: There were moments where I was sitting around my own
Speaker 2: kitchen table listening to my family have conversations, and it
Speaker 2: was like I was watching a television show, like I
Speaker 2: wasn't even present spiritually in the room that I was
Speaker 2: watching a different family have a conversation. And those are
Speaker 2: the moments that I think felt the most isolating. Even
Speaker 2: at my kitchen table, even at family reunions, even at
Speaker 2: Christmas time around the Christmas tree, I never really felt
Speaker 2: like I was part of the group. I often felt
Speaker 2: like a stranger who had overstayed his welcome. And then
Speaker 2: you get to the other places that a lot of
Speaker 2: young people find safety and belonging. You think about church,
Speaker 2: you think about school, and I didn't belong in those
Speaker 2: places either. I struggled a lot with feeling alone because
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure that there was a place in the
Speaker 2: world for me to be authentically myself.
Speaker 1: In the book, you actually say that at one point,
Speaker 1: after one of these dinner table conversations, you came to
Speaker 1: realize that I'm on my own. What drove you to
Speaker 1: that realization?
Speaker 2: For folks who haven't read the book yet, I talk
Speaker 2: about the rules that were in place in our house,
Speaker 2: and one of the most strict rules was everybody has
Speaker 2: to be at the dinner table spending time with the family.
Speaker 2: And I got to be, you know, junior, senior in
Speaker 2: high school, and I'm sitting at the dinner table. We're
Speaker 2: having these conversations about our days, about our lives, what
Speaker 2: we're going through, and I started to realize that as
Speaker 2: the only queer person at the table, that there was
Speaker 2: no way they could understand what I was going through,
Speaker 2: That there was no way they could understand all the
Speaker 2: things I was carrying, all the ways that I felt
Speaker 2: like they were failing me. And so, yeah, I write
Speaker 2: about this sort of realization that I had that I
Speaker 2: was going to have to go it alone. I was
Speaker 2: going to have to figure out where I could belong.
Speaker 2: I was going to have to carve out safe space
Speaker 2: for myself. I was going to have to, you know,
Speaker 2: discover on my own the kind of life I wanted
Speaker 2: to live. I wasn't going to find it sitting around
Speaker 2: that table because they would simply never understand me or
Speaker 2: my lived experiences.
Speaker 1: How old were you, Oh?
Speaker 2: I was I guess fifteen, sixteen years old.
Speaker 1: So a child, still a kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what I really craved was human connection, A meaningful
Speaker 2: human connection that allowed me the space to be myself
Speaker 2: where someone would love me unconditionally. That's what I really
Speaker 2: really wanted. That's what I was missing at that time.
Speaker 2: That's what I could not find around that dinner table.
Speaker 1: It's what I.
Speaker 2: Couldn't find at school, It's what I couldn't find at church.
Speaker 2: And ultimately that's the thing that drove me to leave
Speaker 2: home and go in search of it somewhere else.
Speaker 1: When you went to college. In the book, you write
Speaker 1: about that kind of being like a hopeful escape, but
Speaker 1: then you end up dropping out of college to go
Speaker 1: to Orlando. Why did you want to go to Orlando?
Speaker 1: Why didn't school work out? Yeah?
Speaker 2: School didn't work out because you know, I think, like
Speaker 2: a lot of young people, I imagined this college utopia.
Speaker 2: You go to the big city and you get your
Speaker 2: own dorm room, and all of a sudden, life makes sense.
Speaker 2: And so, you know, I get to the University of Oregon,
Speaker 2: I move into my dorm and it's basically the same
Speaker 2: people that I went to high school with, doing the
Speaker 2: very same things. It's the same kind of toxic culture.
Speaker 2: There still aren't a lot of people that look like me.
Speaker 2: There still aren't a lot of people that love like me.
Speaker 2: And at the same time, I lost the structure that
Speaker 2: home and high school provided, and so I'm just sort
Speaker 2: of drifting alone in this environment that that feels as
Speaker 2: isolating as before, without any life raft. And so, you know,
Speaker 2: I make it through my first couple of years of school,
Speaker 2: and I was working at Starbucks part time at the time,
Speaker 2: and I remember I was at work one day and
Speaker 2: I was really struggling. My mental health was struggling. My
Speaker 2: parents had told me I wasn't welcome to come back
Speaker 2: home for the holidays just before this, and so that
Speaker 2: kind of, you know, crush my spirit. I'm truly on
Speaker 2: my own, and so I'm sitting in the back room
Speaker 2: of my Starbucks store, and I distinctly remember I was
Speaker 2: wearing an apron that smelled like rotting milk because I
Speaker 2: did not have enough money to put quarters in the
Speaker 2: washing machine in my building. I had found this bagel
Speaker 2: at the bottom of the fridge and I was eating
Speaker 2: it because I didn't have enough money to buy lunch
Speaker 2: at work. And I was thinking, is this really the
Speaker 2: best that it gets? Is this life? Like? We just
Speaker 2: go through life exactly like this. We never really get
Speaker 2: to be happy, we never get to experience joy and love.
Speaker 2: So it was weighing on me this idea of, you know,
Speaker 2: a short lived existence on Earth that was devoid of joy.
Speaker 2: And at that very same moment, whether you believe in
Speaker 2: fate or coincidence, I had a ship supervisor who came
Speaker 2: running into the back room and she's holding a copy
Speaker 2: of the school newspaper and she said, I saw this,
Speaker 2: and I thought of you. And on the page it
Speaker 2: said help wanted Walt Disney World, And I thought like,
Speaker 2: oh my, this is it. There were lights shining off
Speaker 2: of the page of this newspaper. If there's anywhere you
Speaker 2: can be really gay, it's probably Walt Disney World, so
Speaker 2: you should go do that. So I auditioned for a contract,
Speaker 2: ended up getting accepted, getting a job, and packing two
Speaker 2: suitcases and moving three thousand miles away from home.
Speaker 1: It's two thousand and eight. Fed up with college and
Speaker 1: desperately craving a place where he could express himself, Brandon
Speaker 1: Wolf got the idea to move cross country from Oregon
Speaker 1: to Orlando to work at disney World. He didn't know
Speaker 1: anyone there, and he was scared of starting over, but
Speaker 1: the excitement of potentially meeting others like him outweighed the fear.
Speaker 1: He was lonely and ready for a change. It was
Speaker 1: in Orlando where he would find refuge at a club
Speaker 1: called Pulse. When you get there, tell me what it
Speaker 1: was like, because in the book it sort of seems
Speaker 1: like Orlando becomes this amazing place for you, But what
Speaker 1: was it like when you actually got there and started
Speaker 1: discovering that.
Speaker 2: First of all, I was right, there is no place
Speaker 2: gay or on Earth than Walt Disney World. So I
Speaker 2: was right about that good instinct on my part, and
Speaker 2: part of what makes it so beautiful, I think is
Speaker 2: that a lot of other queer people had the same experience.
Speaker 1: I did.
Speaker 2: Where they sought refuge at Disney, they sought refuge in Orlando.
Speaker 2: And so I built this incredible community with other people
Speaker 2: who had never imagined the world would have space for them.
Speaker 2: And there are many times in the book where I
Speaker 2: mentioned that community has saved my life. That was one
Speaker 2: of them. I was really being hard on myself when
Speaker 2: I was thinking, I don't know that the world ever
Speaker 2: gets better than this moment, sitting in the back room
Speaker 2: of a Starbucks. I took a chance. I moved to Orlando,
Speaker 2: and that community truly saved my life.
Speaker 1: Well, tell me about that, so I know Pulse was
Speaker 1: a part of that.
Speaker 2: Pulse was one of the first places I think I
Speaker 2: ever held hands with someone that I had a crush
Speaker 2: on without looking over my shoulder first. And I think
Speaker 2: Pulse was that for so many people. I remember one
Speaker 2: of the first times I walked into Pulse, and it
Speaker 2: was like an oasis. I saw people being themselves in
Speaker 2: a way that I never would have dared in my hometown.
Speaker 2: I saw people experiencing unbridled joy. I saw people experiencing
Speaker 2: maybe love for the first time. It captured this beautiful
Speaker 2: sense of normal that I thought as queer people and
Speaker 2: certainly queer people of color. We would never be afforded
Speaker 2: in the world.
Speaker 1: Well, paint the scene for me a little bit the
Speaker 1: first time you went in, Like, are we talking strobe lights,
Speaker 1: booty shorts? What was the vibe the first time you
Speaker 1: walked in? And how did it feel?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, listen, it's a nightclub in Florida, so all
Speaker 2: of the above. It's always hot, so people are always
Speaker 2: wearing booty shorts and their little tank tops. I guess
Speaker 2: the feeling would be liberated. That's the way I would
Speaker 2: describe it. People felt so liberated in that space. You know,
Speaker 2: you walk in. There was like this little lobby area
Speaker 2: with an atm off to the side and a drag
Speaker 2: queen sitting behind an old cash register that was like
Speaker 2: angrily grab your five dollars out of your hand. And
Speaker 2: then they had these two doorways, one to the left,
Speaker 2: one to the right, and there were beaded curtains that
Speaker 2: would hang in front of them, and so you'd like
Speaker 2: part the beaded doorway to go back into the club.
Speaker 2: There was always this relentless energy. The base was always
Speaker 2: so strong that you could feel it vibrating through your
Speaker 2: whole body and It's as if it was pulling you
Speaker 2: into the building to enjoy, to dance, to find love,
Speaker 2: to find friendship, whatever it was. I believe that building
Speaker 2: had a pulse to it, and it was the collective
Speaker 2: energy of all the people. There was something different about
Speaker 2: being an adult far from home, walking into a space
Speaker 2: like Pulse nightclub and just getting to be me without
Speaker 2: any restrictions, without any hindrances, without any worries. It was
Speaker 2: just I could be me.
Speaker 1: A few years after moving to Orlando, Brandon would meet
Speaker 1: his best friend, Drew. Drew was confident about being gay,
Speaker 1: which felt radical to Brandon. He had never met anyone
Speaker 1: like that before. Drew was everything that Brandon had always
Speaker 1: dreamed of having a friend. They spent countless nights dancing
Speaker 1: at Pulse and were present the night of the mass shooting. Tragically,
Speaker 1: Drew was one of its many victims. In the years
Speaker 1: after Drew's death, one of his legacies would be his
Speaker 1: impact on Brandon. Their friendship that helped Brandon really understand
Speaker 1: what a safe space could be. You and Drew both
Speaker 1: were Pulse regulars, but you didn't meet at Pulse. So
Speaker 1: tell me a little bit about Drew. How did you
Speaker 1: guys meet who was he?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Pulse Regulars is generous of you, because I think
Speaker 2: if Drew could have lived at Pulse Nightclub, he probably
Speaker 2: would have. So, you know, I'm a millennial gay man,
Speaker 2: which means it's inevitable that I'll probably find my husband
Speaker 2: online somehow, right, And so I'm one day scrolling in
Speaker 2: my apartment. I stumbled across this person named Drew, and
Speaker 2: we had mutual friends, and so I'm, you know, going
Speaker 2: through his feed. Of course I immediately know this is
Speaker 2: my future husband, and so I start picking out names
Speaker 2: for our children, who's going to take whose last name?
Speaker 2: All the priorities when you see your future husband on Instagram.
Speaker 2: And eventually worked up the courage to ask a mutual
Speaker 2: friend if they would set us up on a date.
Speaker 2: So we plan our It's date day. I drive to PF.
Speaker 2: Chang's at the Millennium Hall. I walk in the door
Speaker 2: and he's sitting there on a bench. He looks exactly
Speaker 2: like his Instagram profile. So of course I'm more nervous
Speaker 2: than I was when I walked in. But it's a
Speaker 2: funny story. Meeting Drew for the first time. What struck
Speaker 2: me was that, you know, us sitting in the middle
Speaker 2: of this busy restaurant. Maybe it was a Friday or
Speaker 2: Saturday night. We talked about a lot of things, including
Speaker 2: old flings. And when Drew was talking about his old boyfriends,
Speaker 2: he never once lowered his voice to make sure that
Speaker 2: the booth behind us didn't hear us talking about boys
Speaker 2: instead of girls. He never once stiffened his wrist deep
Speaker 2: into the gravel in his throat. He didn't try to
Speaker 2: walk any differently. He had this funny, little like lilt
Speaker 2: in his walk. He didn't try to walk any differently
Speaker 2: to the bathroom to avoid detection. He was so unapologetic
Speaker 2: in his existence. Right, all these people had told me
Speaker 2: the world is never going to be ready for someone
Speaker 2: like you. You're always going to have to be just
Speaker 2: a little bit different in order to assimilate. And yet
Speaker 2: there was this person sitting in front of me, queer,
Speaker 2: proudly mixed race, whose very existence seemed to say the
Speaker 2: world had better get ready because we were already there.
Speaker 2: I had never experienced anything like it before. And while
Speaker 2: I regret to inform you, we did not get married
Speaker 2: or have children, we did become best friends. Because that
Speaker 2: was the kind of energy that I wanted to surround
Speaker 2: myself with and I felt like every moment I spent
Speaker 2: in Drew's presence, I got to be a better version
Speaker 2: of myself.
Speaker 1: So, in other words, he really taught you confidence. Is
Speaker 1: that what you're saying?
Speaker 2: Drew taught me a lot of things. Drew taught me confidence,
Speaker 2: Drew taught me to question the things I believe. He
Speaker 2: taught me to think for myself. But I think the
Speaker 2: most important thing that Drew taught me was unconditional love.
Speaker 2: There were several moments where I tried to get rid
Speaker 2: of Drew. I tried to sabotage our relationship because I
Speaker 2: was jealous. I really wanted him to like me in
Speaker 2: a romantic way for a very long time, and that
Speaker 2: wasn't in the cards for us. No matter how many
Speaker 2: times I tried to destroy that friendship, he kept coming
Speaker 2: back because he genuinely loved me unconditionally. That is the
Speaker 2: greatest gift that Drew could have given me. It's the
Speaker 2: greatest gift he did give me, and it's part of
Speaker 2: what has driven me to keep the best parts of
Speaker 2: him alive.
Speaker 1: Before you met Drew, were you lacking a little bit
Speaker 1: in self confidence or in self esteem or that self love.
Speaker 2: Oh sure, yeah, I think it was lacking in a
Speaker 2: lot of things. But the truth was I was so
Speaker 2: deeply insecure. I was so nervous in every social setting.
Speaker 2: I was afraid of rejection and always trying to prove
Speaker 2: something to people around me. And I think part of
Speaker 2: why I found Drew to be such a safe space
Speaker 2: was that I didn't have to do those things around him,
Speaker 2: and as a result, I just became more confident in
Speaker 2: and proud of who I am. So I think a
Speaker 2: lot about how he unlocked that potential for me just
Speaker 2: by being a space where I could be my goofiest,
Speaker 2: most authentic, most awkward self.
Speaker 1: What you're saying is when you were around him, you
Speaker 1: let go of the feeling of having to explain yourself totally.
Speaker 2: I let go of the feeling of having to explain myself.
Speaker 2: I let go of the feeling of having to prove myself.
Speaker 2: I let go of the desperation to be enough of
Speaker 2: something for someone else, because I was enough of me
Speaker 2: for him and that was good enough.
Speaker 1: So, Brandon, it sounds like you're finding your community, especially
Speaker 1: with Drew at this time. What is your safe space?
Speaker 1: Was it Pulse?
Speaker 2: My safe space wasn't a physical place on Earth. It
Speaker 2: wasn't Pulse Nightclub. My safe space was Drue. It was
Speaker 2: the space we created with each other. My place to
Speaker 2: belong was with my best friend. That was the safe
Speaker 2: space that I discovered. And being able to articulate that,
Speaker 2: being able to define that for myself has fundamentally changed
Speaker 2: the way that I've approached the world.
Speaker 1: So, in other words, what you're saying is we sometimes
Speaker 1: look at a safe space as like a physical place,
Speaker 1: but for you, you're saying, it's it's actually in community.
Speaker 2: Well think about it. You know, Pulse Nightclub is not
Speaker 2: the only nightclub in Orlando, Florida. It's not even the
Speaker 2: only LGBTQ nightclub in Orlando, Florida. It's not the only
Speaker 2: club that tries to cater to that community. It's not
Speaker 2: the only club that says that it's friendly to that community.
Speaker 2: But what made Pulse feel so safe and welcoming for me,
Speaker 2: it was the people that I went with. It was
Speaker 2: the people that I saw there. It was the bartender
Speaker 2: who I saw every time at the same bar, who
Speaker 2: always gave me that look when it was you know,
Speaker 2: round five, like you really should be done for the night.
Speaker 2: It was the people that helped me to create that
Speaker 2: sense of safety and belonging. And that has been true
Speaker 2: at every point in my life when I've desperately needed it,
Speaker 2: when I've needed somewhere to call home, somewhere to belong,
Speaker 2: it has been the people that surround me that have
Speaker 2: ultimately helped me find that place. So I firmly believe
Speaker 2: that we create safe spaces through the communities that we foster.
Speaker 2: And they can be a club, they can be someone's apartment,
Speaker 2: they can be huddled around a kitchen island drinking a
Speaker 2: glass of wine, or they could be out on a
Speaker 2: beach somewhere watching the waves roll in. But the thing
Speaker 2: that really makes those places safe places of belonging is
Speaker 2: the company we keep.
Speaker 1: On June twelfth, twenty sixteen, Brandon Wolf was at Pulse
Speaker 1: with his best friends, but he didn't know that night
Speaker 1: would change his life forever. At approximately two am, a
Speaker 1: shooter began opening fire, killing forty nine patrons in the bar.
Speaker 1: At the time, Pulse became the site of the most
Speaker 1: deadly shooting in American history. You and Drew were at
Speaker 1: Pulse the night of the shooting. Unfortunately, he was one
Speaker 1: of the forty nine victims. What was the last thing
Speaker 1: that he said to you?
Speaker 2: So we had a spot on the patio at Pulse,
Speaker 2: and so we were out on that spot that night,
Speaker 2: just before two o'clock in the morning. I'd been through
Speaker 2: a really rough breakup just a few days before, and
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, had decided to invite my ex at
Speaker 2: the time to come out with us. So there's this
Speaker 2: awkward tension in the group because I've invited, like the
Speaker 2: person I've just been complaining about over champagne to enjoy
Speaker 2: a night of dancing with us. And Drew hated tension.
Speaker 2: There's one thing he hated the most. It was people
Speaker 2: not getting along, and he was going to find a
Speaker 2: way to fix that. And so in his way, he
Speaker 2: was a master's degree in clinical psychology, and that means
Speaker 2: that you would be therapized whether you wanted it or not.
Speaker 2: In his way, he launched into a therapy session about love,
Speaker 2: about humanity, about compassion. He expressed his frustration that we
Speaker 2: so often let the little things get in the way
Speaker 2: of how much we care about each other, that we're
Speaker 2: willing to see each other's flaws before we see the
Speaker 2: beautiful things about each other he said, you know, I
Speaker 2: guess what I'm saying is I just wish we said
Speaker 2: I love you more often. That was Drew to a
Speaker 2: tea and I feel really grateful that that's one of
Speaker 2: the last memories I got to have with him.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about that looking back, that that
Speaker 1: is actually the last thing that he said to you.
Speaker 2: I've thought about that point in time a lot over
Speaker 2: the last few years. Almost feels as if he knew
Speaker 2: what was coming, although there's no way he could have
Speaker 2: known what was coming. I don't think I'm the protagonist
Speaker 2: in my own life story. I think Drew is, and
Speaker 2: I'm just the storyteller left behind to make sure that
Speaker 2: the best parts of him get told. And so I
Speaker 2: think that moment is a beautiful moment of him displaying protagonism.
Speaker 2: He just knew exactly what to say in that moment,
Speaker 2: despite not knowing what was coming next.
Speaker 1: A few days after this tragic night is Drew's funeral.
Speaker 1: What was that like for you?
Speaker 2: I tell people that Drew's funeral was the hardest day
Speaker 2: of my life. The hardest day of my life was
Speaker 2: not Paul, so though that's probably a close second. The
Speaker 2: hardest day was saying goodbye to my best friend. His
Speaker 2: mom asked me to be a pallbearer that day, and
Speaker 2: so you know, I took my place at the back
Speaker 2: of the church and helped to push the casket down
Speaker 2: the aisle, and I found myself holding on to the
Speaker 2: side of it so tightly. There's actually a picture of
Speaker 2: me from overhead that was taken and I'm gripping the
Speaker 2: paul really tightly, and it's it's because I didn't want
Speaker 2: to let go of him until I really found the
Speaker 2: right words to say goodbye. We got to the front
Speaker 2: of the church, I looked down at his casket and
Speaker 2: I made him the promise that has shaped every moment
Speaker 2: of every month and year that has come since. I
Speaker 2: promised him that I would never stop fighting for a
Speaker 2: world that he would be proud of because he taught
Speaker 2: me to be so proud of myself. He taught me
Speaker 2: to love myself unconditionally. He taught me to be kind
Speaker 2: to others, and I did not want that to be lost.
Speaker 2: I did not want him to be some name on
Speaker 2: a wall somewhere. I wanted his legacy to mean something.
Speaker 2: I wanted his life to mean something. And so that
Speaker 2: promise while it seemed small at the time, has really
Speaker 2: become the thing that has defined everything I've done since.
Speaker 1: How did you live out that mission?
Speaker 2: A month after the shooting, we were gathered in Drew's apartment,
Speaker 2: like we would be sitting around his kitchen island drinking
Speaker 2: some old, half empty bottle of wine that he liked,
Speaker 2: and we were talking about what it would look like
Speaker 2: to keep his legacy alive. He was proud of the
Speaker 2: fact that, as a junior in high school in rural Florida,
Speaker 2: not the most LGBTQ friendly part of the state, but
Speaker 2: as a junior in high school, he launched his school's
Speaker 2: first gay Straight Alliance student club. Probably not a very
Speaker 2: safe time to do that, but he did it because
Speaker 2: he knew that people needed and that kind of space.
Speaker 2: He knew that other young people needed space to be themselves,
Speaker 2: and so he proudly launched the Gay st Right Alliance
Speaker 2: at his school and then went on to have a
Speaker 2: career of helping people find themselves of you know, helping
Speaker 2: people find their confidence, helping people find self love, and
Speaker 2: so we knew that that would be the work we
Speaker 2: had to do. We knew that's what he would be
Speaker 2: doing if he was still here. So that summer July
Speaker 2: we launched the Drew Project, which first it helps to
Speaker 2: create and sponsor and maintain gayst Rate Alliance student clubs
Speaker 2: across the country. We've authored the country's most comprehensive GSA
Speaker 2: curriculum guide that's still used been downloaded in forty five
Speaker 2: states now and a number of different countries around the world.
Speaker 2: And then I would say the crown jewel of the
Speaker 2: Drew Project's work is Spirit of Drew Awards, which are
Speaker 2: college scholarships that we give way once a year. I
Speaker 2: think we're approaching, if not having eclipsed, two hundred thousand
Speaker 2: dollars already granted from that scholarship fund. So I would say,
Speaker 2: as a whole, it's been about empowering young people to
Speaker 2: find themselves, to be confident, to be empowered to achieve
Speaker 2: their wildest career ambitions, and then to turn around and
Speaker 2: help other people along the way.
Speaker 1: So Drew was your safe space, and part of living
Speaker 1: out his legacy is helping other people find their safe
Speaker 1: spaces in his name.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have to the very best part of Drew
Speaker 2: was his ability to create belonging and safety for those
Speaker 2: around him. That was His favorite thing to do was
Speaker 2: to create community, and it is fitting for us to
Speaker 2: continue to do the work of creating community in his honor.
Speaker 2: It's exactly what he would be doing if he was
Speaker 2: still here. And so, like I said, because we're not
Speaker 2: the protagonists he is, it's our job to carry on
Speaker 2: that work.
Speaker 1: What is your safe space now? It's been seven and
Speaker 1: a half years since he passed away, and since the
Speaker 1: whole night club shooting. What is your safe space now?
Speaker 2: Truthfully, I don't know that I've found one yet. I
Speaker 2: know that I've found bits of safety along the way.
Speaker 2: I know that I've found bits of community. I have
Speaker 2: an incredible group of friends that have been with me
Speaker 2: through thick and thin. Many of them were introduced to
Speaker 2: me through Drew, and so that feels really special to me.
Speaker 2: The work I do gives me a sense of purpose
Speaker 2: and passion and also has created safe space and community
Speaker 2: for me. But I think part of the last seven
Speaker 2: and a half years, part of the thing that I've
Speaker 2: grappled with is that there will never be another safe
Speaker 2: space like Drew. And that's okay. There doesn't have to
Speaker 2: be All safe spaces don't have to look the same.
Speaker 2: But there's a void where that one used to be,
Speaker 2: and I think I'm still, in some ways in search
Speaker 2: of You know what safe space means to me these days?
Speaker 1: Well, the title of the show is called but We Loved?
Speaker 1: What does that title? What does that phrase mean to you?
Speaker 1: Given what you've been through?
Speaker 2: I think about it in a few ways. I think
Speaker 2: about discovering unconditional love Withdrew and my group of friends,
Speaker 2: and I think about how defiant that love really is
Speaker 2: in a world that has told us from the beginning
Speaker 2: that our love is shameful, that it's something to be hidden,
Speaker 2: that it's something we have to change if we want
Speaker 2: to be accepted by others. Our willingness and desire to
Speaker 2: love one another unapologetically and audaciously feels like an act
Speaker 2: of defiance to me, and my decision to love unapologetically
Speaker 2: and audaciously every single day continues to be an act
Speaker 2: of defiance. So that's in part what I take away
Speaker 2: from the title, but we Loved, You know, despite the
Speaker 2: world telling us that we shouldn't, despite the world telling
Speaker 2: us that our love is shameful, we still loved unapologetically
Speaker 2: and unashamedly. And I also think about Drew in particular,
Speaker 2: and I think about all of the baggage that I
Speaker 2: carried to that relationship, all of the things I was
Speaker 2: going through, all of the years of trying to be
Speaker 2: enough for some people, of not feeling at home in
Speaker 2: my childhood house, of growing up in a community that
Speaker 2: didn't understand me and probably could never accept me. All
Speaker 2: of the times I had my heart broken stepped on
Speaker 2: and made myself more jaded day by day. I brought
Speaker 2: all of that to my friendship with Drew. I brought
Speaker 2: all of that to every fight we had, to every
Speaker 2: makeup conversation over Chinese food we had. I brought all
Speaker 2: of it every single day, and still he loved me unconditionally.
Speaker 2: And So when I think about what the title but
Speaker 2: We Loved really means, I think about Drew and his
Speaker 2: ability to look past all of that baggage and love anyway.
Speaker 2: I think the gift that Drew has given me of
Speaker 2: unconditional love is one that I'll carry with me for
Speaker 2: the rest of my life.
Speaker 1: But We Loved is hosted by me Jordan Gonsolves. New
Speaker 1: episodes drop every Wednesday. If you want to write in
Speaker 1: to tell your story, email us at butt We Loved
Speaker 1: at gmail. Dot com or send us a message on
Speaker 1: Instagram or TikTok at butt We Loved. We are a
Speaker 1: production of The Outspoken Podcast Network and iHeart Podcasts, but
Speaker 1: We Loved was originally developed with Pushkin Industries. Our producers
Speaker 1: Areshino Zaki, Michael June, Emily Meronoff, and Joey patt Our.
Speaker 1: Executive producers are Me, Maya Howard and Katrina Normal. Fact
Speaker 1: checking by Marisa Brown. Original music by Steve Bone. Special
Speaker 1: thanks to Jay Bronson and Roquel Willis. If you loved
Speaker 1: this episode, leave us a rating and follow us on
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and thank you for listening. I'll
Speaker 1: see you next week.