1 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: Hey, Kelly, are you a lottery ticket purchaser? 2 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:12,039 Speaker 2: Uh? 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 3: No, as a person who thinks a lot about statistics 4 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 3: and probability, I am not a lottery ticket purchaser. 5 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: Well, you just got to bet on the high variants events. 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 1: But let's say that you win a billion dollars someday. 7 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: What are you going to do with your windfall? Have 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 1: you thought about that? 9 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 2: Oh? 10 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 3: My gosh, Well, I'd like to think that I'd like 11 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 3: work on the world hunger problem, so maybe i'd do 12 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 3: something like that. But also I would make a really 13 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 3: awesome lab for myself, probably probably put it into science. 14 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 3: What would you do? 15 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:46,279 Speaker 1: I might start my own university where students can go 16 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: for free and faculty don't have to apply for grants. 17 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 3: Whoa, And then I encourage them to hire me because 18 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 3: this university you're talking about sounds fantastic and I would 19 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 3: like to work there. 20 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: What I definitely wouldn't do is spend any of that 21 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: money sending myself to space. 22 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 3: Really, you don't want to go to space. 23 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: I have zero interest in going to space. How much 24 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: money would you spend on a ticket to space coming? 25 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 3: I wouldn't know. We're on the same page, but I 26 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 3: still seems way too dangerous right now for my taste. 27 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: Let's just stay here on Earth and spend our billion 28 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: dollars on science. 29 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds great. 30 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 2: Hi. 31 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor at 32 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: UC Irvine, and I am terrified of fast moving vehicles. 33 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 3: I'm Kelly Wiener Smith, and I'm a parasitologist with Rice University, 34 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 3: and I am also sort of petrified of fast moving vehicles, 35 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 3: but also maybe in particular, fast moving vehicles that have 36 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 3: a high probability of. 37 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: Explodingly tested my faith in science and engineering because A 38 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: took a helicopter flight for the first time last week. 39 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 3: WHOA, how did you get that opportunity? 40 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: My daughter and I were on a road trip around 41 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: the West Coast and we took a chopper ride through 42 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: the Grand Canyon, which was pretty spectacular. 43 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 3: That does sound awesome, But are you saying you were 44 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 3: scared or was it moving slow enough that it wasn't scary. 45 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: I was terrified. There's so much angular momentum in that thing, 46 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: you know, some little thing goes wrong, it just pulls 47 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: itself apart. And my daughter was scared. She thought, is 48 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: this thing really safe? And I know the numbers, I 49 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: know the statistics. It's much safer to get in the 50 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: helicopter than it was to drive to the helicopter. But 51 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 1: still it was terrifying, and so I had to reassure her, 52 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 1: even though inside I was also terrified. 53 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 3: Well, it's also you know, the unknown things that could 54 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 3: happen that maybe you're not expecting, which is sort of 55 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 3: what makes the book that we are going to talk 56 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 3: about today, you know, makes Base Treble sound even more petrifying. 57 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: And so welcome to the podcast. Daniel Le Jorge explained 58 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: The Universe, a production of iHeartRadio, in which we explore 59 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,399 Speaker 1: everything that can and does happen in our universe, how 60 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: things come apart, how things come together, how everything works. 61 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: We talk about black holes, we talk about white holes, 62 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: we talk about galaxies, we talk about particles. We talk 63 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: about everything that happens in the universe, and sometimes we 64 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: talk about things that happen in fictional universes. My friend 65 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: and co host Jorge can't be with us today, but 66 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: I'm very happy to have Kelly, our hosts on these 67 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: science fiction episodes, joining us today. Kelly, thanks very much, 68 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: Thank you. 69 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 3: So much for having me. I love every time you 70 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 3: email me and you're like, hey, how about we read 71 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 3: a science fiction book for work? And I'm like, this 72 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 3: is this My life is the best. 73 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: Science fiction is so much fun to read. You know, 74 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: as a scientist, you spend all of your days struggling 75 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: against the boundaries of the laws of physics. It's so 76 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: much fun to have creative people also contributing, you know, 77 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: thinking about other ways universes could be, what the laws 78 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: of physics might be, or setting stories in our universe 79 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: and figuring out like how to solve problems. I just 80 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: love the connection between the creativity of writing science fiction 81 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: and the creativity of actually exploring our universe. 82 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, and this book was particularly exciting because it's set 83 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 3: almost essentially in our time exactly, and the world is 84 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 3: very similar to our world, and so it's interesting to 85 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 3: think about, well, it's just a few things were different, 86 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 3: what might our world be like? And so yeah, it's 87 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 3: a really fun book to think about. 88 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 2: Yeah. 89 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: I love when science fiction tells us about how we 90 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 1: could live, how we might live, and also explores like, 91 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: you know, the consequences of technology and how it can 92 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,119 Speaker 1: affect and change people's lives. You know, we can lift 93 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: up one nation to make it more powerful. It can 94 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: give access to people who were excluded from the mainstream. 95 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: Technology really can completely revolutionize our society, and I love 96 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: seeing science fiction writers try to anticipate that and to 97 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: explore that. 98 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 3: And that's absolutely what this book does. And what book 99 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 3: did we read for today's episode, Daniel. 100 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: And so On today's episode, we're going to be talking 101 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: about the science fiction universe of Orbital Cloud by Tayo Fuji. 102 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: This is a really fun book that takes place in 103 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 1: the near future. Kelly and I both read this book 104 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: and encourage you to pick it up. It's a lot 105 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: of fun and it's a really impressive display of like 106 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: the technical mastery of the author. It's like very detailed, 107 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: very specific. A lot of the plot points really rely 108 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: on like understanding the science and how things actually work. 109 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 3: But I feel like often when you get a book 110 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 3: that's really good about the science, sometimes you don't get 111 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 3: characters that are good. Also. There's like, you know, you 112 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 3: can be good at the engineering, but maybe you're not 113 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 3: also good at describing people. And this book, I think 114 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 3: does a really nice job of having like an interesting plot, 115 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 3: interesting characters, and solid science. I was personally very impressed 116 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 3: with his breath. 117 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: I was curious what your thoughts were about it, especially 118 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,919 Speaker 1: like the space international law and all the treaties and 119 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: the intrigue and all that stuff. But first let's tell 120 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: our listeners a little bit about what this book is about. 121 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 1: It was published originally in Japanese and then translated a 122 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: few years later, and in my mind, it's something like 123 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: a space spy techno thriller. You know, you have countries 124 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: battling against each other in space, but you know, it's 125 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: not like a shooting war. It's more like, you know, 126 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: information and maneuvering. I got some sort of like Hunt 127 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: for Red October vibes. You know, it's like political and 128 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: it's espionage and all sorts of stuff. How did you 129 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: see the book? 130 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 3: Well, so, first of all, I should admit that I've 131 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 3: never seen Hunt for Red October, and I regret that 132 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 3: like every couple months because I feel like it gets 133 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 3: referenced all the time and I'm like, oh, yeah, I 134 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 3: got to watch that. But yeah, no, I got those 135 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 3: vibes too, although although I'll say that it like, yes, 136 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 3: there was the espionage web aspect of it, but you know, 137 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 3: there were also these very real weapons that were up 138 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 3: in space too, and so yeah, I had some of 139 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 3: that also, But I'll watch Hunt for Red October, so 140 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 3: the next time it gets brought up, I'm on the ball. 141 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: I don't know how you can exist in the nerd 142 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 1: done without having seen that movie. 143 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 3: When I've spent two years studying Russian and I'm interested 144 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 3: in Soviet history, and so it comes up a lot 145 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 3: because it's US versus the Soviets in that right, Yeah, 146 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 3: like every movie back then. 147 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: So what is this book about. It takes place over 148 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: a few days in twenty twenty, and it involves a 149 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: lot of sort of amateur characters people watching the sky. 150 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: There's a guy who runs a meteor predicting website who's 151 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: following something in space and notices something strange happening in 152 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: the trajectory of an object that was launched by North Korea. 153 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: So if a lot of different characters all around the 154 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,679 Speaker 1: world sort of seeing things happening in space and trying 155 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: to put together what's going on. 156 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, and they all actually for the most part, work together, 157 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 3: which I hope is what would happen, but I'm not 158 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 3: always so optimistic. There's also a rich dude who is 159 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 3: doing a stunt trip to his orbital hotel and he's 160 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 3: bringing his daughter with him, and like, you know, you 161 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 3: read it for the first time, or you start reading 162 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 3: the book and you think to yourself, oh, is this 163 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 3: supposed to be Elon Musk, And then it turns out 164 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 3: he made his millions from a company that is very 165 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 3: clearly meant to be PayPal in fiction or in this 166 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 3: fictional universe, and you're like, Okay, I get this is 167 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 3: definitely supposed to be Elon Musk. So there's an Elon 168 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 3: Musk character who is going to space in his orbital 169 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 3: hotel for the first time, and as a big stunt, 170 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 3: like I guess, show how safe it is, he takes 171 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 3: his daughter with him. 172 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: Mm hmm exactly. But then it turns out maybe space 173 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: isn't so safe because these amateurs watching the sky notice 174 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: that this object that North Korea launched has a sort 175 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: of strange trajectory. It's not really following like your typical 176 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: gravitational trajectory. It's sort of maneuvering in space in a 177 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: way that surprises everybody. And suddenly people panic, like, hold on, 178 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: is this some sort of new weapon? Have the North 179 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: Koreans developed this thing called the rod from God that 180 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: can you know, drop payloads from space, or maybe they're 181 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: like targeting this orbital hotel that the Elon Musk character 182 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: has built. So all of a sudden there's this sort 183 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: of change in the power balance in space. People think, oh, 184 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 1: this is new technology. Maybe now we are no longer safe, 185 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 1: whereas a moment ago we thought of ourselves as safe. 186 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: I think that's really interesting seeing how the explores the 187 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 1: sort of power dynamics and how very quickly things can 188 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: change with new technology. 189 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 3: And absolutely if some country not only got the power 190 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 3: to knock out you know, the International Space Station, the 191 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 3: Chinese Space station that's up there any touris stuff, but 192 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 3: also all of our satellites that we use for GPS 193 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 3: or communication or something, that would be an incredible power 194 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 3: if they were willing to wield it for evil purposes, 195 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 3: and it would of course break all sorts of international law. 196 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 3: But yes, you could certainly cripple a country like the 197 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 3: US if you suddenly took out all of our satellites, 198 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 3: we'd be in trouble. And so now that we've got 199 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 3: you all petrified of the idea that your cell phone's 200 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 3: not going to work anymore, or your credit card, how 201 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,439 Speaker 3: plausible is the science here? Daniel could something like this happen. 202 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 1: So this is a really fun book because Wow, did 203 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: the author do their homework? Oh my gosh. It's so 204 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: clear that it was really important to him that every 205 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: element of this book be plausible. I think he wanted 206 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 1: the characters to be really living within the confines of science. 207 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: And you know his background is he he is an engineer, 208 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: and so I think he's trying to share sort of 209 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 1: that joy of solving puzzles within these rules. You know, 210 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: you can't just break the rules and say I'm going 211 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: to magic away this problem, and so in the book, 212 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: the characters can't magic away stuff. So there's a lot 213 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 1: of really interesting science in this book, includes like computer 214 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: science and space technology and physics. One of the espionage 215 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: bits in this story involves changing how automatic translation engines 216 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: will translate like Korean into English, so that it changes 217 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: what people hear when they're watching a speech. So you're 218 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: watching a speech by the dictator of North Korea, for example, 219 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: and you're relying on this automatic translation. You can manipulate 220 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: what people here if you manipulate also these translation engines. 221 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: And I thought that was really fascinating, a very clever 222 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,559 Speaker 1: and sort of troubling idea. 223 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 3: I agree it was both petrifying and clever and troubling. 224 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 3: And has anything like this ever happened before or did 225 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 3: he come up with this? 226 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: It's a totally plausible idea because the way a lot 227 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: of these translation engines work is they just sort of 228 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: like scrape the webrin from you want to know how 229 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: to translate between English and Korean. You don't like sit 230 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,959 Speaker 1: down with a bunch of experts who teach your computer 231 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: how to do it. You just get a bunch of 232 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: examples and you just learn the mapping. So you need 233 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: pages that are written in one language and in the 234 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: other language, and the computer learns between them. And so 235 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: just as chat GPT is learning from the web, they 236 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,959 Speaker 1: just like s great text from the Internet. So they 237 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: rely on the fact that it's written by humans and 238 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: it's correct, and then they learn that mapping. And so 239 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: if you pollute that sample, if you insert a bunch 240 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: of new stuff into the web that has incorrect translations 241 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 1: that you want to insert into like English Korean translators, 242 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: then that's totally possible. You would absolutely do that because 243 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: the assumption they're making when they're doing this training, is 244 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: that all the human text out there is basically correct. 245 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: None of it's like maliciously incorrectly written. And there actually 246 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: is a sort of hilarious and tragic example of incorrect 247 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: text being pumped into you know, the sort of textosphere, 248 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: which is a few years ago they discover that there 249 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: was one guy writing a bunch of articles in the 250 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: Scots language. Right, you know, Scottish people part of the UK, 251 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,199 Speaker 1: you know, speak English obviously, but they also have their 252 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: local dialect Scots, which is related to English but not identical. 253 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: And there was some American teenager, probably this kid watched 254 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: too many Austin Powers movies in which there's you know, 255 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: some Scottish characters, et cetera, and he just thought, oh, 256 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to write a bunch of articles in Wikipedia 257 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: in the Scots language. But he didn't know Scots, and 258 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: so he just wrote them sort of as like English 259 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: written in a Scottish accent, but he wrote like gibberish 260 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: and nonsense and just like made up a bunch of stuff. 261 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, But and so like how many how 262 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 3: many articles did he write? Like how committed was he 263 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 3: to this endeavor? 264 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: For being something that was not malicious, It was really 265 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: impressively deep. He wrote twenty three thousand articles. About a 266 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: third of the entire Scots Wikipedia at the time was 267 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: created by this one guy who didn't speak Scotts. You 268 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 1: just like writing in a joking accent. 269 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 3: This is why teenagers should not be allowed to have 270 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 3: free time. They don't do good things with it. 271 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,839 Speaker 1: There was an interview with a professor who's like an 272 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: expert in the Scots language, and he said, quote, this 273 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: is gonna sound incredibly hyperbolic and hysterical, but I think 274 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 1: this person has possibly done more damage to the Scot's 275 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: language than anyone else in history. 276 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, worse than mel what was it, Mel Gibson. 277 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 3: And didn't he do a. 278 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: Worse than all those English kings that's killed all those 279 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: Scottish people and suppressed Scottish culture. Anyway, the point is 280 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: that you can actually pollute what's out there. If you 281 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: now go and write a translator that goes from English 282 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: to Scotts, you're probably picking up a lot of this 283 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 1: bologna that this American teenager created. And so now it's 284 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: a lot harder to learn that translation. So this is 285 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: totally plausible. It's really happened in our world that you 286 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: can pollute the sort of ocean of information from which 287 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: AI is learning to connect languages. 288 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 3: So what you're saying is that North Korea is going 289 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 3: to hire this teenager and we're all going to be 290 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 3: in a lot of trouble. And I think after the break, 291 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 3: we should talk about the weapon that the North Koreans 292 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 3: were wielding in this book. So let's take a quick break, 293 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 3: all right, So that there's a corruption of information, and 294 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 3: there's also actually these weapons that are going into space. 295 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 3: So Daniel tell us about these weapons. 296 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: So in the book, they have this weapon. They call 297 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: it the Rod from God, which is a really fun 298 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: name for a weapon, but it's terrifying, right. The idea 299 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: is to take a big, heavy object, launch it into space, 300 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: and then drop it on someone. And this is essentially 301 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: just taking advantage of the kinetic energy. You have something 302 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: really high up in the gravitation a well, and it 303 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: falls to Earth and as it falls down, it speeds up, 304 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: it gains a lot of kinetic energy, and when it 305 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: impacts it's like a meteor. The reason why the dinosaurs 306 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: were wiped out there wasn't a nuclear weapon nobody blew 307 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: up a fusion bomb. It's just a massive amount of 308 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: energy delivered to the Earth's surface, which doesn't take high 309 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: technology as long as you can get something heavy up 310 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: really far above the Earth and then drop it into 311 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: the gravitational Well, but as time it hits the planet, 312 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: it can be devastating. 313 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I did a little bit of research on 314 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 3: these rod from God proposals when we were working on 315 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 3: our spacebook, and there are some pretty good arguments against 316 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 3: not using them. Like one, you know, the fact that 317 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 3: it's heavy is super important, which is also going to 318 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 3: make it super expensive, because every pound you send into 319 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 3: space is still pretty pricey these days. Also, it's sort 320 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 3: of hard to direct this kind of weapon relative to like, 321 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 3: you know, a missile that you can in some cases 322 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 3: maybe turn or point, and so it needs to be 323 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 3: almost always over a potential target at all times. And 324 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 3: then finally, this weapon so as you mentioned, like asteroids 325 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 3: were pretty bad for the dinosaurs, you know, they were 326 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 3: also bad for everyone because they created this like cloud 327 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 3: that impacted the climate. And so this is a kind 328 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 3: of weapon that can cause problems for people who aren't 329 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 3: necessarily the target, but still a very scary weapon. And 330 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 3: I guess the final argument that usually goes against these 331 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 3: things is that you can do all of these things 332 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 3: with weapons we already have from Earth. So I spend 333 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 3: the money to send it up into space, and then 334 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 3: you have to worry about maintaining this weapon. But still, yes, 335 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 3: Rod from God comes up in sci fi. I actually 336 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 3: I think the idea came from a sci fi novel 337 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 3: first and then got explored by the US Air Force. 338 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 3: And to be honest, I didn't know that the Air 339 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 3: Force's Project Thor had gotten as much attention as it did. 340 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 3: I ended up doing a little research after reading your outline. 341 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is something the Air Force has actually thought about. 342 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: They like read about an end science fiction of the 343 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: is that possible? And so they explored the idea of 344 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: dropping basically a tungsten telephone pole from space. And you know, 345 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: this thing would reach like mock ten and it would 346 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: have the yield of a nuclear weapon without any fallout. 347 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: So from that perspective, it's like less dangerous. You know, 348 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: you worry about like nuking other countries and then the 349 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: fallau trip across the ocean or whatever. In this case, 350 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 1: there is no radioactive fallout, but as you say it's 351 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: super expensive. They calculated it costs like two hundred and 352 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 1: thirty million dollars per shot. Oh my gosh, Because you know, 353 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: tungsten is expensive. The thing that makes it powerful is 354 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: also the thing that makes it heavy, and so that's 355 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: pretty tricky. I think you'd have to like mine the 356 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: tungsten in space to make this thing more effective. But hey, 357 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: I'm not here giving the air Force, you know, good 358 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: ideas for futuristic weapons. 359 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 3: Why, I'm not too worried. That's pretty far off in 360 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 3: the future, I think, being able to mine that much 361 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 3: tungsten and use it for weapons. 362 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: But then they also have this other interesting technology in 363 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: the book, which are anti satellite weapons. So if you 364 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: have now things in space that can attack you, you 365 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: want to have ways to defend yourselves. And so in 366 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: the book, there's a long thread at Norad where they're 367 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: talking about, like what could we do to attack a 368 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: satellite to help defend ourselves, and it refers to this 369 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 1: technology this as M one forty is anti satellite missile, 370 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: essentially shooting a missile from Earth into space to attack 371 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: a satellite. So what do you know about anti satellite 372 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: technology in our universe? In reality chilly. 373 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 3: Well, so I guess this is one of the the 374 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,119 Speaker 3: ways that the rod from God actually is a good weapon. 375 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 3: Like if you it's pretty hard to mess up a 376 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 3: giant's slug of tungsten, and so like, if you are 377 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 3: sending it towards Earth and someone shoots it, probably that 378 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 3: giant's lug of tungsten is still coming towards you. But 379 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 3: in terms of actually shooting at like you know, like 380 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 3: a GPS satellite or something, this is something that a 381 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 3: number of countries have done already from the ground. China, 382 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 3: the US, Russia, and India have all shot their own 383 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 3: satellites out of the sky just to show that they can, 384 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 3: so that other people know that they have that power. 385 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 3: I think that in all of those cases it was 386 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 3: from the ground shooting to space, as opposed to the 387 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 3: method that's used in this book, where you climb on 388 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 3: an airplane and then the airplane shoots at the weapon. 389 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 3: I could be wrong about that, but anyway, so anti 390 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 3: satellite weapons are a thing that exists right now. In 391 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 3: the time between when his book was published and when 392 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,360 Speaker 3: it came out out, Russia shot down one of their 393 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 3: satellites and it got some news because the ISS folks 394 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 3: had to jump to their return vehicle because there was 395 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 3: some concern that the debris caused by the satellite getting 396 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 3: blown up was going to hit the ISS and puncture 397 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 3: it and expose everyone to the vacuum of space. Russia, 398 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 3: of course, claimed that everybody was making a big deal 399 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 3: over nothing and it was nowhere near the ISS. But anyway, 400 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 3: so these sorts of weapons are real. 401 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's really the downside of it is that 402 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: if we have like a war, we're shooting each other's satellites, 403 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 1: we could fill the near space environment with garbage and 404 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: we could make it impossible for anybody to get off planet. 405 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,360 Speaker 1: We have an episode about space junk and this concern 406 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: that as soon as you have enough space junk, it 407 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: becomes exponential of banging into itself and destroying all the satellites, 408 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: and then space is just filled with junk and you 409 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: can't launch anything safely, which would be terrible in lots 410 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: of ways. 411 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, Kessler syndrome. We want to avoid that for sure, exactly. 412 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: I think there was actually a program in the Air Force, 413 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: it's called ASM one thirty Fivehere they were going to 414 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 1: launch a missile from an F fifteen doing this crazy 415 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: supersonic climb. I was reading about how they did test 416 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: it in nineteen eighty five and destroyed a solar observation 417 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: satellite and the junk still was floating around for twenty years. 418 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,959 Speaker 1: They track each piece of junk after this explosion, and 419 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,919 Speaker 1: the last piece deorbited in two thousand and four. So 420 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: it's not like space cleans itself up very quickly either, 421 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: like you make a mistake, It's could be decades before 422 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: we could launch something into space again. 423 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 3: So that I was wrong. There has been They have 424 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 3: tested this from a plane shooting the satellite thing before, 425 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 3: so that's super interesting. And I think the country that 426 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 3: got the most flat for this test was China because 427 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 3: they shot a satellite that was still at a sort 428 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 3: of higher orbit and so all the junk it created 429 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 3: stayed up there for much longer most people when they 430 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 3: shoot down their satellites, it's much lower, so the junk 431 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 3: is going to deorbit sooner. And I think the international 432 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 3: community went after China, whereas they usually don't make a 433 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 3: huge fuss about this stuff because they had sort of 434 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 3: polluted the space environment so much. But anyway, okay, so 435 00:20:58,960 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 3: that's been tested. 436 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: COO cool scary. I'm lazeria. One of the key technologies 437 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: in this book. The thing that allows the North Koreans 438 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: to sort of like steer this ode, to manipulate this 439 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: rocket in orbit without having propulsion on it, is this 440 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: idea of a space tether. The sort of central plot 441 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: device in the book is that they're watching this North 442 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: Korean satellite and they're expecting it to just to be tumbling, 443 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: but then it's maneuvering and they're wondering like how did 444 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: they do that? And so this space teather technology is 445 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: what allows the North Koreans in the book, having stolen 446 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 1: it from the Iranians, to sort of maneuver this object 447 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: in orbit and you know, maybe target areas with their 448 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 1: rod from God. 449 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 3: So how do these tethers work? 450 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: So these space teathers are super fascinating. Again, the author 451 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 1: has been like very diligent because there is real physics here, 452 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: like you can't actually use these things to manipulate the 453 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: path of things in orbit. Especially space teather is just 454 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 1: a long wire. You have an object in space and 455 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: you have a very very long wire attached to it. 456 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: If you're moving through a magnetic field, then you can 457 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: take advantage of the Lorentz force, and you can either 458 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: turn your motion into electrical energy. You can like become 459 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: a generator by turning the motion of your wire through 460 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: a magnetic field into current in the wire, so you 461 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: can generate power, or if you can dump power into 462 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: the wire. If you can create current on the wire, 463 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: then you get a force between the wire and the 464 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 1: magnetic field, and you can use that essentially to steer. 465 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: So you get something like an electronic rudder where you 466 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: can control your motion through the magnetic field and basically 467 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: position your satellite anywhere you want it at least steer 468 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 1: it somewhat. 469 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 3: So could we actually have this and why don't we 470 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 3: or should we? Let the author explain that later in 471 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 3: the interview. 472 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: This is totally plausible. The physics is solid. You know, 473 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: it's all just the Lorentz force. You're either turning kinetic 474 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: energy into electrical energy or electrical energy into kinetic energy. 475 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 1: Both of those actually work, and people have explored this. 476 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: NASA had a mission in two thousand and two called 477 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,199 Speaker 1: the pro Seds mission, which was going to have a 478 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: fifteen kilometer tether attached to an object that was going 479 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: to explore like electrodynamic propulsion The advantage again here is 480 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: that you don't need propellant. You know, most of the 481 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: time when you're maneuvering in space, you have to throw 482 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 1: some mass off your ship. You want to change direction, 483 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: you got to push away by throwing something in the 484 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: other direction to conserve momentum. And so this would allow 485 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: you essentially to swim through the magnetic field indefinitely because 486 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: you will never run out of propellant. So this is 487 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 1: a very cool idea, totally plausible. My one question when 488 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 1: I was reading about this was whether the magnetic field 489 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: of the Earth really was strong enough to give the 490 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: effects in the book. But we asked the author about it, 491 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: and he gave us a very fun answer about it 492 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 1: when we talked to him. All right, and so enough 493 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: of me and Kelly talking about this book that we 494 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: didn't write. We were very excited to talk to the 495 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: author about how he wrote such a fun book with 496 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 1: so many interesting characters and so much cool space technology 497 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: and space dynamics and space law and space politics. And 498 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 1: we're very happy that the author was willing to join us. 499 00:23:53,200 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: So here's our interview with Taio Fuji. So it's my 500 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: great pleasure to welcome to the podcast. Mister Taio Fuji, 501 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 1: author of Orbital Cloud Tyo, thank you very much for 502 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: joining us on the podcast. 503 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 2: Thank you very much for inviting me to their podcast. 504 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 2: I'm grat to the talking about the op the cloud. 505 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 3: We're glad to have you here. We loved it and. 506 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,719 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear about how you got into writing 507 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: science fiction. What was your path to becoming a successful 508 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: science fiction author. 509 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 2: I was a computer software engineer and especially the developing 510 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 2: their computer graphics software for the commercial usage. Then in 511 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 2: the nineteen eleven May nineteen eleven March elevens we called 512 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 2: the huge eest quack in Japan. On that time, then 513 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 2: ten thousand people has gone away at batsnami. We know that. 514 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 2: But the two days after the Kushima nuclear pakpround got 515 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 2: the boomed exploded. All the news source and the media 516 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 2: it changes to their mentioning about the tsunami disaster, but 517 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 2: also they turned to the reporting the radioactive dangerousness honest, 518 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 2: timing safely, safely, but the news media kept framing that's 519 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 2: dangerous and other radioactive is dangerous and then we cannot 520 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 2: live there. I go anger and I was thinking about 521 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 2: how to show that we can stand in front of 522 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 2: their technology or disaster or the natural natural disaster or 523 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 2: the climate change or another many things. Then, but I 524 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 2: was only once engineer. I'm not scientists. I was not 525 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 2: famous for talking about their disaster nuclear dister. Then I 526 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:04,200 Speaker 2: started to write science fiction. Fiction is the most low 527 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 2: cost way to their sending the message to somebody. Then 528 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 2: I wrote the first science fiction story about demagogue killing people. 529 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 2: I sold ten thousand copies of a book on the 530 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 2: two months was sold. I became the every many writer 531 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 2: editor and my publisher editor know my work. Then I 532 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 2: and then the higher clup of the published a higher colup, 533 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 2: the Japanese science fiction dedicated publisher, that offered me to 534 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 2: the publishing the gym, but to becommercial publisher. Then I 535 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 2: agreed and rewriting it and changing my job to the 536 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 2: engineer employee to their independent writer. 537 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 3: That is such an interesting path. And so I'm wondering 538 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 3: you were inspired by an event that happened in modern times? 539 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 3: Is that what motivated you to write a book that 540 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 3: could be happening in the very near future as opposed 541 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,439 Speaker 3: to like thousands of years in the future. Were you 542 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 3: a science fiction fan before that? 543 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 2: Yes, I was science fiction big science fiction fan. I 544 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 2: already have eight hundred books on my books on my shelf, 545 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 2: andunder I kept the games p Hogan and the Asimo Founder, 546 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 2: and I was like, right, especially I love the woke Up, 547 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 2: the power patiology, the wind up goal. 548 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 1: Well, tell us about how you came up with this story. 549 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: There's so many fascinating interconnected pieces to it. Did you 550 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: come up with sort of the story first and then 551 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: figure out how the technology worked? Or were you more 552 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 1: fascinated by the technological elements and then figured out a 553 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: story you could tell with them. 554 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 2: I start the story from there. I start to write 555 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 2: a science fiction from the story who do? What is there? 556 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 2: My either my story is starting point and about the 557 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 2: cloud and speaking about golf. Then the Weber Engineer saves 558 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 2: the world is a story storiist call corp. Then how 559 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 2: I think and when I think? The uh then when 560 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 2: the food. 561 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 3: I was impressed by how much different knowledge you had 562 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 3: of things, so like international law, different space agencies in 563 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 3: different countries and how they work. And the knowledge was 564 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 3: expansive and beyond just what you would expect from your 565 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 3: experience as an engineer. So how long did it take 566 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 3: you to get all of that additional information, and how 567 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,719 Speaker 3: did you go about learning all of those those additional pieces. 568 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 2: I researched to the sleieve or four months about that's 569 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 2: the internet. The mess up is joining onto thek there 570 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 2: Marazon NASA study. It's the hockzon of the space up 571 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 2: datas discloaded all the data by the Obama governance. Then 572 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 2: NASA started to let the engineers to the make something 573 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 2: developed something from with using the NASA data space data. 574 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 2: Then I joining it. Then there I spent two days 575 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 2: at the Tokyo University and making a friend and I 576 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 2: UH under my I joined uh and with my friend, 577 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 2: then my friend is more the protagonist model of their crowd. 578 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 2: I met many people, some people is appearing in this book. 579 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 3: Do you have a friend like Kazumi who could like 580 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 3: i'm'm sorry to re pronounce the name, but who could 581 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 3: like imagine orbital trajectories in his head? 582 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 2: There during the Hockazon, I tried to to make it 583 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 2: the positioning of their is s. Then we we we 584 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 2: agree that if we track the two weeks, there is 585 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 2: s s orpital elements a weekend, the prejudice of their 586 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 2: positioning in the one hour, the accuracy with in their 587 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 2: brain calculations. That's the real research under the story about 588 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 2: Isana is very interesting. He is my friend from friends 589 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 2: from the university and the very long friend and he 590 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 2: is he made a unique program and he displayed the 591 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 2: ISS position of the ISS on the Google map. Then 592 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 2: everybody can see there where is the I, S S 593 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 2: on the on the square. Then I love that program, 594 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 2: very small program and on that years Google Maps API 595 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 2: was really into very important thing. Then we love that. 596 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 2: So we love that program. Then many the amateuria uses 597 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,239 Speaker 2: program and the Yeah. And one day there is an 598 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 2: phone that NASA use it on the Space Sattle mission. 599 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 2: That he watched the NASA TV and the Space Attle 600 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 2: mission there on the bigger largest console. The NASA displayed 601 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 2: his app on the biggest screen and sharing the position. Wow, 602 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 2: and the iPhone, I know that the under After that 603 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 2: thing there he was invited to the Space Shuttle launching 604 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 2: mission to NASA. Then he was he watched the launching 605 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 2: from the fast price. Then this story is the basis 606 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 2: of the one with the big base of the object. 607 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: All right, we have lots more questions for Tayo, but 608 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: first we have to take a quick break. Okay, we're 609 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: back and we're talking to Tayo Fuji, the author of 610 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: Orbital Cloud, about how he wrote such a fascinating and 611 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: complicated but compelling novel. I really liked how in your 612 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 1: story a lot of the contributions to solving the puzzle 613 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: come from people who are amateurs, and I don't work 614 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: for NASA or the Space Agency. You know, maybe they're 615 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: amateurs but wealthy, or they're professionals but they're underfunded. Is 616 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: it important to you in our real world that everybody 617 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,719 Speaker 1: can contribute to cutting edge science and space exploration with 618 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: whatever skills they have. 619 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 2: Writing the year about twelve thirteen, that tools a year 620 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 2: the SpaceX had not succeeded yet, then I think the 621 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 2: amateur can helped or work better. 622 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 3: So you mentioned that you were researching and writing in 623 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 3: twenty twelve. So in the decades since you wrote the book, 624 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 3: what about the trajectory of the space industry has surprised 625 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 3: you or disappointed you? Are we about where you expected 626 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 3: we would be by now? Or are we falling short. 627 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 2: There with limiting on the space development their commercial under 628 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 2: non government or the space development it gett succeed rather 629 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 2: than I imagine writing of the optail Cloud. Of course, 630 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 2: the Ronnie Smack the space developound. The story models evil 631 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 2: masks under the mask that followed very closely to image 632 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 2: mention his specifics and the starting system is a very 633 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 2: similar for my story. My imagination was touted by the 634 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 2: el Mask and another challenge is keeping. Then their space 635 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 2: development is better than my expect And but thing was 636 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 2: the world tension of the geopolitical situation. It's hard as 637 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 2: I thought that I pree real. 638 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 1: And if given the opportunity, would you like to travel 639 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,839 Speaker 1: to space personally? If Elon Musk after your SI on 640 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: one of these points. 641 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the masks showed that it is possible. 642 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:43,439 Speaker 2: Then there are many forwer works and better I think. 643 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm excited by companies like rocket Lab too. I 644 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 3: know they're not bringing people to space, but they're doing 645 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,240 Speaker 3: a good job of lower and the costs and stuff. 646 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 3: So your book was translated into English. Did you work 647 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 3: with the translator or have you read the translated version? 648 00:34:58,640 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 3: What was that process like? 649 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 2: The translation was a very standard process. The publisher, the 650 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 2: publisher High Castle Route, the San Francis publisher, the selected 651 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,839 Speaker 2: the translator, the translator is the payer translation and then 652 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 2: this is a Chemo Silver is the group name of 653 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 2: the two transferrectors, then they are living in Japan. Then, 654 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 2: after the translation was almost refinished, the two and then 655 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 2: asked me to the accuracy question about accuracy with the 656 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 2: but it the connect communication was were the publisher high 657 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 2: Castle not direction to me? Then there I only review 658 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 2: the translation in English there, but I was so excited 659 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 2: when right and during the writing the opital cloud in 660 00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 2: Japanese edition, there I imagine that of course the many 661 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:06,879 Speaker 2: characters speaks English in Japanese edition, or of course then 662 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,319 Speaker 2: but I write in Japanese. But I imagine that how 663 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 2: they say it in real in English. Then I was 664 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 2: so excited to read in their English edition and with 665 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 2: the real English ones, I was so excited. Under that 666 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 2: translation is very accurate, very similar to the Japanese one. 667 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:37,439 Speaker 4: Every paragraph is not removed that no one is add 668 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,399 Speaker 4: it wonderful. Well, I'm glad that it's so accurate. Kelly 669 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 4: and I have both written books that have been translated 670 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 4: into languages we can't read. And I wonder sometimes if 671 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 4: my bad jokes work in Turkish, you. 672 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: Know, or in Hungarian. But I'll never know. Speaking of accuracy, 673 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 1: something about the book really impressed me to say, you 674 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,280 Speaker 1: have all these characters sort of fighting against the rules 675 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: of science, sort of string against nature. You know, how 676 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: do we solve this problem? And every time they find 677 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,439 Speaker 1: a solution, it falls within science. You're never inventing new 678 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: kinds of science. Is it important to you that the 679 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: science in your book be plausible, essentially that your story 680 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 1: take place in our universe? You never like make up 681 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:17,800 Speaker 1: new laws of physics? 682 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:23,360 Speaker 2: Yeah? Only why on one thing that I had told 683 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 2: a lie about this book physics, And one thing is 684 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 2: the strongness of the magnetic field of the US. Then 685 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 2: I calculated it is a thousand times the stronger than 686 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 2: the actually one in order to the moving the things 687 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 2: quickly because their electrodynamics power is very small. The one 688 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:55,320 Speaker 2: thing of the physics lie is a magnetic strength strongness 689 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 2: of the magnetic fields, and the second one is the 690 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 2: clock computer clock. I set the atomic clock on the 691 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 2: cellphone based circuit, but the atomic clock is not there. 692 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 2: One of my friends science fiction writer say that you 693 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 2: should set the solar cell on the tser. Then then 694 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 2: they're even if the abling it cannot be there, the 695 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 2: making the enough power, but also that the fictional accuracy 696 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:35,879 Speaker 2: was held. Everybody cannot stand there claim you that you're 697 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 2: making you you're talking and you you're writing there an almosty. 698 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 3: This you can correct in the second edition. There you go. 699 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 2: Sure And when the when the movie. 700 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 3: That's right, that's right, they'll have solar sales in the movie. 701 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, when somebody said the movie. 702 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. So one of the themes in the book is how 703 00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 3: space technology and you know, the satellites that we have 704 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 3: in orbit are really helpful for the developed countries that 705 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 3: have them, and that this contributes to power imbalances. What 706 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 3: do you see as the current state of things and 707 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 3: do you see any hope that the developing countries will 708 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 3: be able to catch up and benefit from space technologies 709 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 3: as much as we do in develop countries without like 710 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 3: something catastrophic happening. 711 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, the catastrophic might not be happened because they're too 712 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 2: much prayers. Is there launching them things to the orbit, 713 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,320 Speaker 2: then there are many the thousand eyes is watching their 714 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 2: spaces every time, every second under already the whole thousand 715 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 2: satirized by one company, studying system is covering us and 716 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 2: they studying system guys are watching their orbit every second. 717 00:39:55,440 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 2: Of course under the China, already the launched the two 718 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 2: space the two space stations and under and they are 719 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 2: often to launching the projects to their their can go 720 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 2: second and the North Korea already the launching the menacing 721 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:19,720 Speaker 2: to the there and another country is starting to launching 722 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 2: the manzing. Then the increasing of the player makes to 723 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:29,440 Speaker 2: the watching by each watching each other us then and 724 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 2: that makes the club thing or the big projects for 725 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 2: the big tyrant country may not be appear because there 726 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:46,719 Speaker 2: are too many players is working on the space basically 727 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 2: and the challenge of the space six that will let 728 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 2: our past see to the sky at least, then that 729 00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:03,399 Speaker 2: makes the interesting is kept on the orbit. Then I 730 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 2: think the the club things think may not occur from 731 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 2: the space, but also from the ground. 732 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 1: I think wonderful. Thank you again very much for doing 733 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: us on the podcast today and talking to us about 734 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,359 Speaker 1: your book and congratulations on it. 735 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 2: So I forgot to tell you that the when there 736 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 2: about o the clouds, then the cloud said the date 737 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 2: of the twenty twenty. Then why I said to this 738 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:37,359 Speaker 2: year is because the moon is not shown in Christmas. 739 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:42,399 Speaker 2: It's a new moon date. Then I was very love 740 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,919 Speaker 2: about the wind the people looking about the sky. If 741 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,319 Speaker 2: there was a moon, I should describe the position of 742 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 2: the moon every time. Then I've suched when the new 743 00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 2: moon I searched, I should set there the date of 744 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,480 Speaker 2: the story. This is a seven days story. They're during 745 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:13,440 Speaker 2: the new moon. Terms. Then I found that twenty twenty. 746 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:19,440 Speaker 2: It's the best just after the president was changed. It great. 747 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,360 Speaker 2: Then I said a year to the optocra. 748 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,000 Speaker 3: I love that you use the moon phase to figure 749 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,880 Speaker 3: out when the book was going to be set. That's awesome. 750 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:33,919 Speaker 2: So the many scientifics the science fiction found phone that's 751 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 2: were is the moon or other on the time the 752 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 2: moon is under the in front of you? You then 753 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:46,920 Speaker 2: everybody cannot see the meteo or other another things. Then 754 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 2: then I once remove the moon. Then I found the 755 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:57,440 Speaker 2: new moon terms. Many retailer gelators can remove the moon easily, 756 00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:58,719 Speaker 2: but science fiction. 757 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,200 Speaker 3: Cannot do it. 758 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 1: When you read science fiction, do you check the science yourself? 759 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: Do you think is that accurate? Would the moon be 760 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,680 Speaker 1: in the sky? Are you that detailed in your reading 761 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:11,040 Speaker 1: as well? 762 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:15,400 Speaker 2: Yes? Exactly read we cannot escape from the science. 763 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,239 Speaker 1: Awesome. Awesome, all right, well again, thank you very much 764 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,279 Speaker 1: for joining us on the podcast. All right, so that 765 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,759 Speaker 1: was super fun interview. Thanks everybody for joining us, and 766 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,959 Speaker 1: thank you Kelly for reading this book with me and 767 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:30,240 Speaker 1: chatting with us about it today. 768 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,640 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, and thanks again for doing another 769 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:34,759 Speaker 3: one of these sci fi episodes where I have an 770 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:36,319 Speaker 3: excuse to read a super fun book. 771 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,319 Speaker 1: I had a blast, all right, Thanks very much, and 772 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,520 Speaker 1: we encourage everybody to check out this book. It's a 773 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 1: lot of fun. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening, and 774 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,759 Speaker 1: remember that Daniel and Jorge explain the Universe is a 775 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:59,360 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the 776 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:03,360 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 777 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:04,440 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.