1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey you, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: guest producer Josh over there again and this is stuff 5 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: you should know. The led Zeppelin Edition, the Wet Edition, 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: the led Zeppelin Edition. Is that what you thought of? Yeah? 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: Anytime I see like that, Um, I guess it was. 8 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: It's not the Zoso album cover, but I think it 9 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: was like a poster that you'd see in Spencer's that 10 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 1: was like, I think from led Zeppelin four. It was 11 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: like a guy with a long beard. He looked like, 12 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: um oh, sure, he looked like what was his name, 13 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: the guy from Lord of the Rings. Yeah, yeah, he 14 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: looks like Gandalf. Basically. Yeah, Zeppelin was very You know, 15 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: if anyone who's ever seen song remains the same, they 16 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: it all sort of like mystical druid esque, right they were. 17 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: They were well known for their druid escu leaning. But 18 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: so that's what I think of with druids, and it 19 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 1: turns out that that is in one sense very much accurate. 20 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: That is what a druid looks like. But if you're 21 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: talking strictly about druids that came from the seventeenth century onward, 22 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: so like just a few hundred years ago, you would 23 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 1: be correct if you're talking about the ancient druids. The druids. 24 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: Druids the once that everybody thinks of is like like 25 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: the O G Druids, they we have no idea what 26 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: they were like. Really we or we have very very 27 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: little idea what they were like. And it's based on 28 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: such um potentially slanted evidence that some archaeologists refused to 29 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: agree with certainty that druids ever even exists the way 30 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: that we think they did. Yeah, and it's funny this. Uh, 31 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: the Grabster helped us out with this one, with the 32 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: research and he I don't know if Ed's been listening 33 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 1: to us for too long or what, because he fell 34 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: into the Josh and Chuck trap of not even saying 35 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 1: what the druid was until page four. So we should 36 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: just go ahead and say, when we're talking about the 37 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: ancient druids, Uh, it wasn't like a race of people 38 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: or anything like that. They were celts and as defined 39 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: by some history website. I went to UM, there were 40 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: members of the learned class of ancient Celts and ancient 41 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: Britain and France, and they acted as um, it was 42 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: really more like job based. They were teachers and judges 43 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: and priests and philosophers. So that's I mean, I never 44 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: knew that it was really just sort of um uh 45 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: che's I don't even know how to define it. Not 46 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: a class of people, well, sort of a class, yeah, 47 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: but it was kind of uh, job based. I didn't 48 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: know that an occupation yeah, occupational. Yeah, they had had 49 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 1: a union, They had pretty decent health insurance was ironic 50 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: because they didn't know what they were doing with medicine 51 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: at the time. Or if you you know, if you 52 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: had really good insurance, you could wind up in the 53 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: wicker Man getting burned alive, right, your family would would 54 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: benefit from that, you wouldn't potentially write. But that's I mean, 55 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: what you just said is basically the the most you 56 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: can say about druids with any level of of accuracy. 57 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: Are we done? Yep? That was It's true. It's everybody 58 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: short stuff. Um. Everything beyond that is is different varying 59 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: degrees of conjecture, And I don't want to like beat 60 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: this horse over and over again. So I think it's 61 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: really just good to kind of like just put it 62 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,839 Speaker 1: out at the beginning, like everything we're talking about from 63 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: this point on is relatively UNPROVENUM archaeology is being very 64 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: stubborn and to their credit about what they will agree 65 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: about druids and what they won't agree about druids. UM. 66 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: And I think that's great, But everybody else is like, hey, 67 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: that's good. You guys sit there and doggedly and methodically 68 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: figure it out. We're going to just let our imaginations 69 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: run wild and and come up with this conception of druids. Yeah. 70 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: And you know, one of the big reasons why we 71 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: don't have a lot of firsthand accounting is because the 72 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: druids did not uh and they had a very good reason, 73 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: but they didn't write things down. They didn't keep a 74 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: historical record about themselves. And the reason makes a lot 75 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: of sense. It was there was a lot of power 76 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: in the fact that they remained sort of mystical and 77 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: that a conquering enemy or foe can't just get a 78 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: bunch of druid I is that a word, Yes, druid 79 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: I writings to figure out what they're all about. So 80 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: there was a lot of mystery and mystique and because 81 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: of that a lot of power in just passing along 82 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 1: traditions orally within their own group. Uh, it really ended 83 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: up kind of being given them a stranglehold on their mystique, right, Yeah, 84 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: for sure. Um. The thing is, though, that's a super 85 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: important point. They didn't write things down, But almost as 86 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: important is to to say that they weren't illiterate. Now, 87 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: like the Celts wrote stuff down. And surprisingly when they 88 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: wrote stuff down, they wrote it in Greek. So the 89 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: later Romans who came along, as we'll see and had 90 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: a huge influence on Celtic culture when they encountered the Celts, 91 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 1: these heathens, these savage tribes, they are what the Romans 92 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 1: considered them to be. They they found that they already 93 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: wrote in Greek. But the Celts themselves, Chuck and I 94 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: didn't know this. Um they were. They were basically a 95 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: multi ethnic group. They were not just like you know, um, Germanic, 96 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: or they weren't just like Aryan or um, you know, 97 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: North African like. They weren't like an ethnic group. They 98 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: were apparently connected by language, but they were very tribal 99 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: and they warred with each other pretty much constantly. So 100 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: each little each little tribe would have its own kingdom, 101 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: but they all were united under this culture, this Celtic 102 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: culture and Celtic language. Yeah, and um. Even though the 103 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: Druids didn't write about themselves, UM, early Greeks did UM 104 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: specifically Posidonius. And here's where, like you said earlier, it's 105 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: like someone writes about the Druids, maybe based on uh 106 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: lore or legend um, sometimes maybe first hand accounts, but 107 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 1: then other people write about those accounts, and then people 108 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: write about the accounts of the accounts, and pretty soon 109 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: all of the sort of quote unquote knowledge we have 110 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: about the Druids is based on It's like a game 111 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 1: of telephone essentially. UM. And one of the biggest contributors 112 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: to UM I guess druid I writing was Julius Caesar. 113 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: He wrote a lot about the Druids, but from the 114 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: perspective of a conquering army, you know, so that's a 115 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: it's definitely gonna have a slant. And he also based 116 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: a lot of his writings on Posidonius to begin with, right, Yeah, 117 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: Posidonius's writings were lost, like all of them were lost, 118 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,679 Speaker 1: so we know he wrote a lot about the Druids because, 119 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: like you said, all those people came later and referenced 120 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: his writings before his writings have been lost, but we've 121 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: never seen his writings, which is a shame because we 122 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: probably could have learned a lot about the Celts and 123 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: the Druids firsthand. Um. But by the time so Posidonius 124 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: was was working in the first century b c. E. Um, 125 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: by the time Julius Caesar comes along, I think about 126 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: fifty sixty years later, um, he he has a different 127 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: slant than Posidonius probably would have like, because, like you said, 128 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: he was showing up and saying, here are all these 129 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: people who we are subjugating, and then here's the reason 130 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: why we're subjugating them. He wasn't writing about the Celts, 131 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: and he wasn't writing about the Druids to document their culture. 132 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: He was writing propaganda to support the campaign of Roman 133 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: imperialism back home, so that everybody saw, oh, it is 134 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: good that we're going and conquering these people and bringing 135 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: civilization to these heathen tribes, because they're just running around 136 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: cutting each other's heads off and um, sacrificing one another 137 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: to their oak trees and possibly even eating one another. Um. 138 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: And and now it's up to historians and archaeologists to say, Okay, 139 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: how much of that is accurate, how much of that 140 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: comes from a kernel of truth, and how much of 141 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: it is outright just you know, fraudulent propaganda, which is 142 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: a huge job to undertake. Yeah, and we'll we'll touch 143 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: more on the human sacrifice stuff because that's certainly juicy. Yeah, 144 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: but um so, I guess Caesar writes a lot about this. 145 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: And it's like you said, from that perspective, when things 146 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: really get wacky is when our old buddy Plenty the 147 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: elder starts writing. And this is about what about a 148 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: hundred years later, and this is when things when this 149 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: is when the writing really amped them up as like 150 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: very odd wizard like people. Yeah. And Pliny, Pliny, so 151 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 1: he was a Roman citizen. He was a great traveler 152 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: though in a great um a great uhman. He was 153 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: a great wing man. He would just support you eat 154 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: whether you struck out or not. Um struck out? He 155 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: uh three's company. What's going on? Yeah, if you went 156 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: to the Regal Beagle with Pliny, you're gonna come away 157 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: happy one way or another. Um so. He but he 158 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: was like he was a documentary of all the other 159 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: cultures that's why he was going to do. But the 160 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: problem is that he was still a Roman citizen, so 161 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: he saw things through Roman I So that means that 162 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: he saw Heathens as heathens, like, yeah, their culture was 163 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: interesting and it was worth writing down, But it doesn't 164 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: mean that he had a respect for it or got 165 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: everything right or understood everything correctly. But you you, the 166 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: point is you could take Plenties writings potentially with a 167 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: little more of a grain of sand than Caesar's. But 168 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 1: but yeah, that's right, whatever you want to chew on. 169 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: But the but Caesar's writings have an advantage over Plenties 170 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 1: and that his were more contemporaneous to Celtic culture. By 171 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: the time Plenty came along, the Romans had already spread 172 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: their culture throughout the Celtic lands. They stamped out every 173 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: other culture basically. And what I found interesting from research, Chuck, 174 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: is that there were varying degrees of grudging nous at 175 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: accepting that culture among the Celtic tribes. In some respects 176 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: they were like, oh, yes, I love civilization. It's way 177 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: better than the life we were living before. There's so 178 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: many great trappings to it, and it's so much less 179 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: like you know, um hard and difficult and muddy. But 180 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: at the same time, I also don't like how the 181 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: Romans like just kind of like rape everybody they feel 182 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: like raping and tax us even though we're considered basically 183 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: slaves to them. So there was a real like um 184 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: weird period where the Romans started to permeate with their culture, 185 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: the Celtic culture of um I guess ambivalence towards that 186 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: that permeation, yeah, um so, I mean these are the 187 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: historical writings that we have as far as actual, real 188 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: archaeological evidence. It's not much better as far as conjecture 189 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: goes a couple of examples, because there's always you know, 190 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: this longing to connect the Druids and their paganism, their 191 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: brand of pagan him to this ritual sacrifice again because 192 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: it's juicy. So the lynd the very famous Lindau Man 193 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: who was Lindao to Lindau one was a woman. But 194 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: this was a body that they found in nineteen four 195 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: preserved in Pete and a Pete bog h. He was 196 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 1: a dude in his mid twenties and had a very 197 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: violent death. As it appears um they found food in 198 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 1: his belly, so they there's so much conjecture. The conjecture 199 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: there is essentially that he was ritually sacrificed, that was 200 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,719 Speaker 1: his last meal, and then he had what's known as 201 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: three deaths. He was strangled. Uh, their ligature marks on 202 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: his neck very well preserved. You should look him up 203 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: the garrett. The leather strap is still around his neck um. 204 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: He was hit on the head after that, like blunt 205 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: forced trauma style, and then his throat was cut. So 206 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: the speculation is they gave him a last meal and 207 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: then gave him possibly three deaths, to satisfy three different 208 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: pagan gods. But it also he was found naked, so 209 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: there's speculation that he could have just been robbed of 210 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: his clothes and robbed of his money and uh maybe 211 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 1: by someone who it was a sick oh maybe or 212 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: somebody who is like, get that thing out of my 213 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: face and put some clothes on. I'm telling you for 214 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: the last time. And then it went it went south 215 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: from there. Yeah, and you can go see he travels 216 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: a little bit, but he's on permanent display in the 217 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: British Museum. If you want to go, uh, say hi. Yeah, 218 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: if you ever want to be reminded that you're really 219 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: not a lot more than a bag of skin. Go 220 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: check out pictures of a lindau Man because that's basically 221 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: what he is. Yeah. They've also found mass graves um 222 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: from the Iron Age in in these areas where where 223 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: the druids were around, and again conjecture that this was 224 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: an example of like mass ritual sacrifice, but that's largely 225 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: been pretty much poopooed over the years as well. Yeah, 226 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: it's definitely up for debate whether they were just executed 227 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: or whether they were um killed in battle or whether 228 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: the yeah, they were sacrificed. Um. There's some other there's 229 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: some other archaeology that has has really tantalized archaeologist. There's 230 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: one called the Deal Warrior. Yeah, that's name. Yeah, it 231 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: really is, especially if you check out like how he 232 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: was found. He was found with a shield, a spear, 233 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: and a sword and wearing a crown. And as far 234 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: as they can tell, there's no other Celtic um burial 235 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: that that has been found thus far that had all 236 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: of these accoutrema. So this is an extraordinarily important person. 237 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: But they have no idea who it was, but they 238 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: want to say druids so bad they can taste it 239 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: and then one of the other burials that was found, 240 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: they found him in a graveyard somewhere in I believe Britain, um, 241 00:14:54,880 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: and he was found with a lot of weird stuff like, uh, 242 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: what appears to be a board game but that they 243 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: think possibly was was used for divining you know, the future, 244 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: like rolling dice or something like that. Um. He was 245 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: found with divining rods, you know, like they used to 246 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: find water and that kind of thing, so that indicates 247 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: some sort of ritual magic. He was also found with 248 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: a set of surgical tools. So they're calling this guy 249 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: the doctor. Because the archaeologists are being level headed. Everybody 250 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: else is saying, this is the grave of a druid. 251 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: It's the grave of a druid. Just say it, you 252 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: stupid archaeologist. And he's like, no, I won't say it. 253 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: He won't say it, but it's a it's it could 254 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: prove to be a really um important Fine. It probably 255 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: it probably already has proven itself that we just aren't 256 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: openly interpreting it yet. Yeah, and um, I should mention 257 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: if Deal Warrior is not the name of a death 258 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: metal band, then someone's doing it wrong. Yeah. All you 259 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: need is a picture of this guy on your album cover. 260 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: It is your first one. Should we take a break, Yeah, 261 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: let's all right, let's take a little break and we'll 262 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: come back and talk. Uh, we'll post some more conjecture 263 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: right after this. All right, Chuck, we're back. It's time 264 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: for more conjecture again. Some archaeologists refused to to say 265 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: that druids definitely existed, that a priestly class of Druids 266 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: and Celtic culture existed. Just chew on that one for 267 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: a while, alright, totally undermined your led Zeppelin poster. Yeah. Well, 268 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: here's the thing too about the Celts is we don't 269 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: know a lot about where their culture began or when 270 00:16:55,720 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: it began exactly. Because Druids are Celts, we obviously don't 271 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: know much about where they began either. Um. We do 272 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: know that how how it kind of all ended. Um, 273 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: And when we say ended, I mean there, I mean 274 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 1: you can go to modern druid in Druidism websites today 275 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: and and go wear a flowery dress and frolic barefoot 276 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 1: in a field with people in any given country. Probably, 277 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: But that's not exactly the same thing the actual druids. Uh, 278 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: we know because of writing from the first and second centuries. Basically, Uh, 279 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: there are laws all over the place that banned druidism. 280 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: Part of this Roman uh conquering way, which is like, Hi, 281 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: we're here, so forget everything, forget your way of life. 282 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: You are now Roman enjoy using toilets, right exactly, And 283 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 1: I like, I do like the toilets a lot, right. 284 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: So so with Claudia, I'd like a couple of um 285 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 1: Caesar's Augustus and Tiberius said Okay, Romans citizen and aren't 286 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,360 Speaker 1: allowed to participate in druidism. And then by the time 287 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 1: Claudius came around, uh, and by the time his rule 288 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: ended in fifty four CE UM, the Druids have had 289 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: been at least officially stamped out. Like not only could 290 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: you as a Roman citizen not participate in druidism, Druidism 291 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: in in totality was banned in the Roman empire um 292 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 1: under punishment of death. And uh, it had uh the 293 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: effect of driving Druidism underground, for sure. Yeah, but it's 294 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: not like it just went away. They still, like, you know, 295 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: they would go off and and and do their own 296 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: thing quietly as much as possible, right, and and so 297 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: I And I mean, when Claudius is banning this, it's 298 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: not just like no, we we don't like this. It's 299 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: a threat to to the Roman control over the Gallic 300 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: lands and these celts Um. That's not the reason that 301 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: he gave, although that was almost certainly the reason why 302 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 1: they outlaw druids. But the reason they gave were things like, 303 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: these people practice an inhuman religion where they sacrifice people 304 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: to their gods. Apparently they would go through criminals and prisoners, 305 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:15,640 Speaker 1: and then once they ran out of criminals and prisoners, 306 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: they would start sacrificing their own innocent people. They just 307 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 1: had this blood lust, so that religion had to be 308 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: stamped out and repressed. And of course the Roman citizen 309 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,239 Speaker 1: around the world said, oh, yeah, that's great, get rid 310 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: of druidism. But like you said, it just kind of 311 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: went underground, it seems like. And then as rebellion started 312 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: to kind of crop up around them the British Isles 313 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:43,360 Speaker 1: and in France um against Roman rule. It's pretty much 314 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 1: a sure bet that if there were such a thing 315 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 1: as druids, they were helping to foment that that rebellion 316 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 1: and that uprising. Yeah, and I think I get the 317 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: idea that the Romans were a little spooked by the Druids. Um, 318 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: while they were like vastly superior with their military in 319 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: their might, um, they paid a lot of attention to them, 320 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: and like, they're not gonna make a bunch of hay 321 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: about something that they don't think is a threat. And 322 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: I think they were spooked out a little bit, like, uh, 323 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 1: when they were resisting, you know, after these laws were passed, 324 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: the Druids invoked a prophecy saying the end of the 325 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,479 Speaker 1: world is coming near and the Roman Empire is going 326 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: to be destroyed by fire. And I don't think it 327 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: was just like the Romans just brushed that off. I 328 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: think they're like, oh jeez, those those guys are crazy. Um. 329 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: And also, how are we going to deal with a 330 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:36,479 Speaker 1: big fire? Right exactly? So that's so that I mean, 331 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: I could see being spooked by that, couldn't you. Yeah, So, um, 332 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: they they definitely if they weren't spook chucking, at least, 333 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 1: they took them quite seriously and like again like outright 334 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: banned them. But not only did they did they prophecy 335 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: that they were going to um be burned by fire 336 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 1: like the some of these early writings of drewids, especially Pliny, 337 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 1: may did it seem kind of like creepy and magical 338 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: and wizardy, you know, like like Pliny described druids as 339 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: holding um blood offerings, like like slaughters of animals and 340 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: humans and their sacred oak groves. And we should say, 341 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 1: I don't think we said this, but the word druid 342 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 1: one of the suggestions for the etymology of it is 343 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: drew and wind, and drew means to know, and wind 344 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: means oak, So drew wid may mean nowhere of the 345 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: oaks or the people who who have the knowledge of 346 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: these sacred oak trees. Um and Plenty described these guys 347 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: and like white beards and long white robes, climbing up 348 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,959 Speaker 1: oak trees to cut down mistletoe with golden sickles, you know, 349 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: around saw wayne or um you know, the spring solstice 350 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: or summer solstice or spring equinox um, and and worshiping 351 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: this whole pantheon of gods that unfortunately the Romans didn't 352 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: bother to write down the names of. Yeah and once, uh, 353 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: isn't there speculation that Merlin from the Arthurian legend was 354 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:09,199 Speaker 1: a druid, like he survived, you know, the not just 355 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: the Roman Romanization of Celtic culture and also the Christianization 356 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: of Celtic culture, but into the Middle Ages, um, when 357 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: he was supposedly running around. Yeah, and again because they 358 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: weren't writing anything down. You know, when you're when you're 359 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: a conquering person, you can go in and like raid 360 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: the archives and get a lot of knowledge. I imagine 361 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: it was kind of creepy in and of itself to 362 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: just find that they had no writings at all, Right, 363 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: and then you're all of a sudden, I mean, I'm 364 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: sure there was like questioning and stuff, but then you're 365 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: just going on whatever they wanted to tell you, and 366 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: any Druid worth assault was probably like, you know, probably 367 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 1: tease them a bit about how creepy they might be. Sure, 368 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: you know. So that whole not writing things down thing, 369 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: that's that's an important point. So one thing, it means 370 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: that we don't have any direct understanding of the druids 371 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: from the druids. But um, the reason why they didn't 372 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: write things down was two fold. One, if they were 373 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: this priestly elite class that stood between the average celt 374 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: and the gods, Um, they were the ones who knew 375 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 1: the secrets of the oak and the wisdom of the 376 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: oak and all that um. One way they maintained that monopoly, 377 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: or that that have the market cornered on that knowledge 378 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: was to make it so that the only way you 379 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: could learn to be a druid was from another druid, 380 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: and to pass along this ancient tradition of knowledge, which 381 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 1: makes the whole thing way more mystical. Then even if 382 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: there was some main religious book or something like that, 383 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: it's oral ancient knowledge passed on from druid to druid. 384 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: That's how they passed it on. And that's why they 385 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: didn't write anything down. And then elsewhere I saw I 386 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: think it was maybe stray Bow or someone else said 387 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: that the reason they didn't write things down was because 388 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 1: they felt like by reading you didn't learn as much 389 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: as from being immersed in it and in having had 390 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: explained to you over the period of something like twenty 391 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: years by another druid, Because that's about how long it 392 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: took to be initiated into being a full druid, a 393 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: full rank druid, a full rank a black belt druid. Uh, 394 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: shall we take another break? Why not? Man? All right, 395 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: let's do it, and then we'll talk a little bit 396 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: more about whether or not they practice human sacrifice and 397 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: stonehenge in all sorts of other good things right after this. 398 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: All right, So we talked a lot so far about 399 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: or a little bit rather about whether or not they 400 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: did practice human sacrifice, the sort of the sixty thousand 401 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: dollar question. And like we said, because the Romans really 402 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: wanted to propagandas and paint a picture of listen, we 403 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 1: gotta do this. These people are barbarians. Uh, they're sacrificing 404 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: and like you said, maybe even eating each other. That 405 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: that cooks up a good case basically, especially when it's 406 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 1: coming from Caesar's pin um or whatever he wrote with 407 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: what it's right with hero with the blood of his enemies, Okay, which, 408 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: by the way, by the way, Chuck, we are one 409 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: day out from the IDEs of March, that's right, which 410 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 1: marked the death of Caesar, one day before your birthday, 411 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: So happy early birthday from everybody and stuff. You should know, Like, um, 412 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: so did they or did they not? That is a 413 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: big question and the answer is maybe. Right. So you know, 414 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: there's a lot of writings about it, but again you 415 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: gotta take all that with a grain of salt. Is propaganda. 416 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: But you know, some of it was super detailed. Um 417 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: could just be good writing and good imagination, but there 418 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 1: was enough of it um to where there is a 419 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: lot of speculation that you know, they may have done 420 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: so maybe not on some huge mascale, but that doesn't 421 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,439 Speaker 1: mean that if you people weren't thrown in a wicker 422 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: man every now and then in set ablaze. Yeah, and 423 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's worth really just saying overly one 424 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: of the things that whole wicker Man. If you haven't 425 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: seen Wickerman, go watch it. Not the knick Cage version both, Okay, Gussie, 426 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: both their moments in the Nick Cage when they are 427 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: so bad, it's pretty wonderful to watch. Okay, alright, alright, 428 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: granted the original one is pretty awesome. I think, like 429 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: Peter Peter Cushing in it, well, Christopher Lee was the 430 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,400 Speaker 1: the main creep, wasn't he. Well obviously that was the 431 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: main creep in his own life. Um, he was great. 432 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: But so in Wickerman, I think it was from this investigator. 433 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: I think goes into like this kind of isolated, insular, 434 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: kind of Celtic tradition community and ends up finding himself 435 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: inside a giant wicker man being burned alive. They that's 436 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: based on legend about the the Druids that they used 437 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: to sacrifice people by making giant wicker figures, putting somebody 438 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: in there and setting it on fire. And that was 439 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 1: just one of the ways they supposedly sacrificed people. Another 440 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: one I read about was that they would slash people 441 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: in the back with a mortal wound, and then one 442 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: of the druids or one of their assistants would watch 443 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: the person's death throws and death agony to divine the future, 444 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: like you could tell by the way somebody arrived or wriggled, 445 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: or maybe how they bled what the future would be. 446 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 1: And then with Lindale man, you were saying, remember he 447 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: was he was had his neck broken, he was choked, 448 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: hit over the head, and he was slashed in the throat. 449 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: They think that possibly the choking thing, the strangulation, and 450 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,439 Speaker 1: the slash in the throat were related to where he 451 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: would produce like a fountain of blood when when he 452 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,959 Speaker 1: was when his throat was slashed while he was being strangled, 453 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,360 Speaker 1: that would tell them something. Possibly, That's that's the legend, 454 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: the whole cannibalism thing. I saw zero evidence for at all. Yeah, 455 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 1: there is no evidence for cannibalism human sacrifice. There are 456 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 1: a lot of good cases out there that that really 457 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: possibly did happen among the Celts. Yeah. And part of 458 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 1: the reason this is so uh so tantalizing all these 459 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,199 Speaker 1: years later is when they link them to things like 460 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: Stonehenge and you go to Stonehenge and you're told some 461 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: story by some snot nose kid you know that's visiting 462 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: from Indiana that like, you know, the Druids used to 463 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: you know, sacrifice people here and that's why they built it, 464 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: which is not true at all. It's gotten all mixed up. Um. 465 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: Stonehenge was around long before the Celts and the Druids 466 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: were doing their thing there. But they may have gone there, 467 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: I mean ed makes a good point like a lot 468 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: of times when they were religious temples and things that 469 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: had been evacuated another pagan religion might move in just 470 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: because it's there and it's ready to go. So they 471 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: may have gone to Stonehenge and to perform some ceremonies, 472 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: but that was not the purpose for Stonehenge. Yeah, we 473 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: have no idea why they built Stonehenge or even who 474 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: built Stonehenge. But the first the first unambiguous appearance of 475 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: the Celts comes hundreds of hundreds and hundreds of years 476 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: after Stonehenge was first built. But yeah, they may have 477 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: used it. If you were a Druid, wouldn't you like say, yeah, 478 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: Stonehenge is probably pretty important. It lines up I think 479 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: with the summer solstice, the the rising sun and the 480 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: summer solstice. That was a very important um time to 481 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: the Druids as far as we understand, so of course 482 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: they would pay attention to it and use it. And 483 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: maybe another way to look at it is that the 484 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: Druid tradition and maybe even the Celts themselves directly grew 485 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: out of the people in the culture that built Stonehenge originally, 486 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: because I think see I think it was Caesar who 487 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,479 Speaker 1: wrote that the Celts culture and Druids grew out of 488 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: the British isles first and then spread westward or eastward 489 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: into Europe, primarily France, right yeah, yeah, although there's I've 490 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: seen references that it made it as far as Turkey. 491 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: The Celtic culture did um and had extensive trading routes, 492 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: So they weren't like this this you know, isolated group 493 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: of bumpkins. They were spread out all over the place. 494 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: They knew how to trade. Then they had their own civilization. 495 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: It just wasn't nearly as advanced as as Roman civilization, 496 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: but they had like an established culture by the time 497 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: Rome showed up. We just don't know quite that much 498 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: about it as it was right before Rome came. Yeah, 499 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: and as you said, I thinking like the very beginning, 500 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: like you know, years and years later, like in the 501 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds and sixteen hundreds, there were people in groups 502 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: of people that referred to themselves as druids and claimed 503 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: that they were practicing these true traditions. Um, but there's 504 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: really no like there's really no proof that any of 505 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: that is true at all. And and it's likely that 506 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: it was just these people many many years later that 507 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: just sort of, um, kind of dug up this ancient 508 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: thing and made it their own. No, it's it's a 509 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: hundred percent that way. And even like the the neo 510 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: Druidic groups that you see today, don't try to to 511 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: make it any make it out any other way. Um. 512 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: A lot of the a lot of them will say, 513 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,719 Speaker 1: you know, we we are. This druidism we practice has 514 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: been around a few hundred years and it's based on 515 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: ancient you know, folklore and tradition that you will find 516 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: in Ireland. And that's that's a really good point too. 517 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: Like like Neo Druids, m traces its roots back to 518 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: the seventeenth century when some historians and antiquarians got interested 519 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: in some of the ancient Irish stuff. Um. And they 520 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: think possibly that some of the ancient Irish myths and 521 00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: legends are a form, a kind of a preserved form 522 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: of ancient Celtic and Druidic culture. Because the Romans never 523 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: set foot in Ireland, they never managed to conquer Scotland. 524 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: The picks up there, who you will remember from the 525 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: Locknest episode, drove them back. And so these two, these 526 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: two areas where Celtic culture lived, was able to kind 527 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: of live and preserve and and continue on until about 528 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: the five hundreds when the Christians showed up and finally 529 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: managed to convert everybody um, and then Celtic culture thank you, 530 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: and then um. But but Celtic culture had an extra 531 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: five hundred years to continue on and then make it 532 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: into you know, the written word and written language. And 533 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: so you can go back and look at Irish mythology 534 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: and a lot of people say this is this here, 535 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: here's your example of Druidism right here. Um, which it 536 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: could be a variation of it because these were isolated cultures, 537 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: but still it probably is some form of Druidism. And 538 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: then that is what the seventeenth century onward in Dano 539 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: Druids based their stuff on. But they don't claim to 540 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: say we have unmolested ancient knowledge from the original or 541 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: tradition of druids. They just are kind of basically doing 542 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: their own thing, you know. Yeah, and it's so rich 543 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: for um literature and movies. It's just it's been definitely 544 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: just sort of malleable and bastardized just to fit like 545 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 1: a screenplay of um Celtic folklore and like these kind 546 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: of creepy, blissed out flower children who uh throw people 547 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: in a wicker man. Or there was a movie with 548 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: Christopher Lambert of you know, the Highlander called Druids, which 549 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: I'm sure is I haven't seen it, but I imagine 550 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: is just cooked up for movies. You know. There's a 551 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: really good movie from around the time Wickerman came out 552 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: called Blood the I think Blood on Satan's Claw. Dude, 553 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: this terrible title. It is amazing that it's part of 554 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 1: like wicker Band and Blood on Satan's Claws, they're part 555 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,760 Speaker 1: of something called folk horror. Yeah. Yeah, and we would 556 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: not have folk horror if it wasn't for those antiquarians 557 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: in the seventeen hundreds of being the sixteen hundreds being 558 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 1: becoming interested in Druidism. We we might not even have 559 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: led Zeppelin, my friend, if it wasn't for some of 560 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,840 Speaker 1: those guys. Well, the guy who did uh Hereditary, his 561 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 1: the trailer for his new movie just came out and 562 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: it is straight up like druid centric. I can't wait. 563 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 1: Like these these you know, teenage campers in like Sweden 564 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 1: or something. I think it's Sweden, I'm not sure. You know, 565 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: they find this, you know, group of people in a 566 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: field who are doing creepy things, and it just it 567 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: looks really creepy and awesome. I'm assuming is producing it. 568 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 1: Probably like four could show a movie of somebody's spit 569 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 1: into a pale for two hours and I'd be like, 570 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,800 Speaker 1: I want to watch that. Yeah, they're a good outfit. 571 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: They were a great outfit. Uh Oh. One other thing 572 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: I also saw that um Druids, the ancient Druids, if 573 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 1: they did exist as like an elite priestly class would 574 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: not have gotten their hands dirty with sacrifice. They would 575 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: have just overseen it. And then possibly a sub order 576 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:30,439 Speaker 1: of druids called vates would have divined, you know, what 577 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: was going on from the way the blood was spilled 578 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: or whatever. So not, uh what are they vates? Vates? 579 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,800 Speaker 1: And then there was also bards. They were not druids, 580 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 1: not full fledged druids. I I don't I don't know, 581 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: I don't understand it. I've just seen it. I've seen 582 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: it delineated like vate, vates, Bards and druids. And then 583 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: I've also seen I think in this article Ed places 584 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: druids is kind of like the whole elite class. It 585 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: was definitely a higher class, right. And then I also 586 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:05,400 Speaker 1: saw in UM some archaeology UM article that that there's 587 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 1: really no evidence that druids, if they did exist as 588 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: a separate class, existed as separate class until very late, 589 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: right before the Romans came, and they would have just 590 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,359 Speaker 1: been integrated into everyday life and it would have been, 591 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 1: like you said, an occupation, like you know, Todd over there, 592 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: Todd Merwin, Um, he's really good with the divining rod. 593 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,800 Speaker 1: So that's what that's what we rely on Todd for. 594 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: But he wasn't like an elite class, and then maybe 595 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 1: it developed out of that kind of specialization over time. 596 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 1: I love that Todd is your kind of go to 597 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: over the years. I do too, love Todd. Uh. That's 598 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,399 Speaker 1: it for druids. Although there is a lot more out there, 599 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,800 Speaker 1: and a lot of it's confusing, but a hundred percent 600 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: of it is awesome, especially if you're um flow. If 601 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: your boat is floated by dungeons and dragons type stuff. Uh. 602 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: And since I said dungeons and dragons, it's time for 603 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 1: listener mail. I thought you were about to say, since 604 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:08,359 Speaker 1: I said dungeons and dragons, that's Friday night and I'm 605 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 1: in a basement. I love it. Hi, guys, I worked 606 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: this is on bed bugs. By the way, we got 607 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: a lot of replies about short stuff on bed bugs, um, 608 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: including quite a few from the people in the hospitality industry. Yes, 609 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 1: which is very gross. Um. Hey, guys, worked as a 610 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: guest service agent for a three star hotel in Charlotte, 611 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: North Carolina for over three years. It was called bed 612 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 1: Bugs City. Bed Bugs was basically a curse word, and 613 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 1: it couldn't be used in front of guests, and we 614 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: heard from a couple of other people in the service 615 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 1: industry that you never say that word out loud. They 616 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 1: called them BB's at this place, but another guy called 617 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 1: them the visitors. Oh my god. So I'm not really 618 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,880 Speaker 1: sure if it was true or not, but um, a 619 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: general manager told me that this picular hotel chain did 620 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 1: not believe in putting mattress covers on their mattresses. The 621 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:08,759 Speaker 1: logic being housekeepers are required to inspect mattresses every time 622 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: a guest checks out of a room and every time 623 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: they change the bed. If they were to put mattress 624 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: covers on the beds and guests would notice them, it 625 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 1: would give the guests the idea that bed bugs were 626 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: in that mattress already interesting. In addition this, the manager 627 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: explained to me that guests are the ones who bring 628 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,320 Speaker 1: bed bugs into hotels. I don't know about that. Sounds 629 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 1: like blaming the victim, agreed, So if a guest calls 630 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 1: after they've checked out of a room to report bed bugs, 631 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: this complaint basically fell on deaf ears. If the guest 632 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,800 Speaker 1: called to report bed bugs during this stay, the company 633 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,840 Speaker 1: is not obligated to refund the nightly rate. Um, but 634 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 1: sometimes they might adjust your rate. It's a sign of goodwill. 635 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,239 Speaker 1: They don't reimburse people for finding bed bugs in the 636 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 1: rooms because to them, that is an admission of guilt. 637 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,319 Speaker 1: So instead they will offer I can't believe this part. 638 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: Instead the hotel will offered to wash your clothes, movie 639 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,920 Speaker 1: to a different room, place the room with bed bugs 640 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,839 Speaker 1: out of service, and then tell you to throw your 641 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 1: stuff in the trunk of your car in plastic bags 642 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 1: and leave the car in the sun. Very rare occasions, 643 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,600 Speaker 1: they might even issue a future night's day that can 644 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,760 Speaker 1: be used at any Bedbug City right across the country. 645 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: You get what you pay for with the three star hotel. Yeah, 646 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. Man. Three star used to be different. 647 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,800 Speaker 1: It used to be sure, and then the corporate takeover 648 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 1: of America undid that difference. So that is from J. 649 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: The letter J. The letter J. This this listener mail 650 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 1: is brought to you by the letter Jan Colling down 651 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,720 Speaker 1: to bed Bug City. Thanks Jay from bed Bug City. 652 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,319 Speaker 1: We appreciate that peak behind the curtain. UM, if you 653 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:56,759 Speaker 1: work in some industry we've talked about and want to 654 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:58,960 Speaker 1: tell us all the gross and horrific things that the 655 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 1: general public doesn't know about. We love that stuff. You 656 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 1: can go onto stuff you Should Know dot com and 657 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: look for all of our social links there. You can 658 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: also go to my website, The Josh Clarkway dot com. 659 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 1: You can send us all an email to stuff Podcasts 660 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:21,440 Speaker 1: at I heart podcast Network dot com for more on 661 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff 662 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:35,120 Speaker 1: Works dot com.