Speaker 1: And those people bring back double collar polos. Nowhere to God,
Speaker 1: She's sheen. I'm me no ma, no my name Yo?
Speaker 2: What is your childng Da?
Speaker 1: I am a cook, choky?
Speaker 2: What's going down the floor?
Speaker 3: Like round?
Speaker 4: Welcome to like a vision the show where we give
Speaker 4: yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm Rose DomU and I'm
Speaker 4: Fran Toronto. And Fran, you are serving Carlina lagerfeldt and
Speaker 4: I'm serving the fat person in sweatpants she wants dead.
Speaker 4: And you know what, I love that about us.
Speaker 3: We the virgins have to know that that is a
Speaker 3: joke at the expense of Carl Lagerfeld. And we will
Speaker 3: continue to make those because.
Speaker 4: I hope he's rotting and.
Speaker 2: I hope he's rotting in now. That's the thing.
Speaker 3: That's the thing about this met gala and and what
Speaker 3: we're gonna, you know, chit chat quickly about is that,
Speaker 3: Like I feel like, overwhelmingly, at least on our timelines,
Speaker 3: maybe not everyone else's timelines, the discourse was around like
Speaker 3: Carl Lagerfeld being like a fat, phobic, racist, like mean person,
Speaker 3: and I was like, Diva, that's everybody at the top
Speaker 3: of every industry, running every industry, Like that's what this
Speaker 3: all runs on.
Speaker 4: Like, Wow, I am loving this from you because you
Speaker 4: are usually I'm giving you will you are you are?
Speaker 4: You are me today you're cosplaying. Not only is Karlina
Speaker 4: lagerfel roseam you. I love that you are anti discourse
Speaker 4: today because yeah, I agree. It's like saying someone in
Speaker 4: the fashion industry bucks is like maybe the most boring
Speaker 4: thing you can say.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it kind of is.
Speaker 3: I think throughout that while we were watching last night,
Speaker 3: I think I I was at times frustrated about how
Speaker 3: the people that I was seeing talk about Carl are
Speaker 3: people that like aren't in fashion. Sorry, Like and if
Speaker 3: you don't know anything about fashion and you don't know
Speaker 3: Carl's influence on fashion, like you don't really know how
Speaker 3: to talk about it, Like you might as well like
Speaker 3: be complaining about how like Michael Jackson ruined pop music
Speaker 3: or what it's like. It doesn't matter if like you
Speaker 3: don't like Michael Jackson, Like yes, like Michael Jackson is
Speaker 3: a pedophile, but he also invented pop music.
Speaker 2: Allegedly, Yeah is that alleged?
Speaker 4: Still it's still alleged.
Speaker 2: Oh that's news to me.
Speaker 4: Anyway, we're talking about how stupid it is to do
Speaker 4: discourse about carlography here we are kind of engaging in it,
Speaker 4: but I'm really I'm really struck by. I got my
Speaker 4: eyebrows wax yesterday and they're slaying a little bit. They
Speaker 4: look really good.
Speaker 3: And you know what else looks really good today, Rose,
Speaker 3: Something that you know the virgins at home can't see,
Speaker 3: but maybe they'll see on our social or something. Is
Speaker 3: this gor Jean and Boilin inspired necklace A la ugly
Speaker 3: Betty that a one rosedami.
Speaker 2: You did buy me for my birthday.
Speaker 3: And it's not a competition buying presents for birthdays, but
Speaker 3: if it was, Rose Domio did win.
Speaker 4: Let's just say that it is the first Tuesday in May,
Speaker 4: and as you were listening to this episode, it is
Speaker 4: the first Thursday in May. So I'm sure you were
Speaker 4: all very sick and tired of Met Gala coverage and opinions,
Speaker 4: but you're going to hear a little bit of ours,
Speaker 4: and we will try to keep it light and fun
Speaker 4: and fancy free. We did gather to watch the Red
Speaker 4: Carpet last night. It was a lot longer than I.
Speaker 3: Expected it to be, also way more fun than I thought,
Speaker 3: Like you know, like I think you and I had
Speaker 3: really expectations, Like, you know, we were just like, oh,
Speaker 3: you know, we'll like order something like I had fun.
Speaker 4: I had a good time. I mean it was exactly
Speaker 4: what I expected, which was you Laurel and I sitting
Speaker 4: on my couch just on Twitter, in my same space. Yeah.
Speaker 4: But as far as the actual carpet and fashion, look, listen, listen,
Speaker 4: I want to give a disclaimer. I'm not a fashion girlie.
Speaker 4: I consider myself somewhat fashion adjacent. I like to consume,
Speaker 4: I like, you know, like shoes whatever. I'm like literally
Speaker 4: sitting here wearing a gross hoodie that hasn't been washed
Speaker 4: in maybe a full calendar year. But you know, I
Speaker 4: still have my opinions, and I think generally this was
Speaker 4: an underwhelming Megala fashion wise, but I think a lot
Speaker 4: of that is due to the theme. And just like
Speaker 4: as I was saying to Phoebe before you got on here,
Speaker 4: like I'm not even really that excited about seeing this
Speaker 4: met exhibit because I just think out of the whole world,
Speaker 4: car Lagerfeld, from my uneducated point of view, is just
Speaker 4: very boring and like not the type of design that
Speaker 4: I am drawn to, and that was very much reflected
Speaker 4: on the Red Carpet last night, with a few exceptions.
Speaker 3: M yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm I'm also I don't
Speaker 3: consider myself a fashion girly. I like to think myself
Speaker 3: as a style girly. And I think that styling good distinction. Yes,
Speaker 3: And I think that styling is usually what wins the Metgala.
Speaker 3: I think that how you pull an outfit together, how
Speaker 3: you accessorize, how you create the fantasy is is really
Speaker 3: how you win instead of like recreating a runway look
Speaker 3: or just wearing something that's lowed for the sake of it.
Speaker 2: I think that I don't know, so I've also I've
Speaker 2: been seeing a lot.
Speaker 3: Of people be like this is like such a you know,
Speaker 3: this like Met Gala theme like sucks or whatever, and
Speaker 3: like every year someone's gonna say, like the Megala theme sucks.
Speaker 3: I actually think unfortunately, and I've been thinking about this,
Speaker 3: I think that this was a really good mechala and
Speaker 3: I and I know I'm thinking about years. I thought
Speaker 3: that Camp Mechcala was amazing. I know, every there were
Speaker 3: so many people that were like rotted, horrible whatever, but
Speaker 3: like I have so much fun watching people have fun
Speaker 3: and go all the way out. And the thing about
Speaker 3: a mechala theme like camp is that it's open to interpretation.
Speaker 3: You can wear any designer you want and like cater
Speaker 3: it to your style. And I think that that was
Speaker 3: something that lent itself to a lot of fun on
Speaker 3: the red carpet. And I think that's also something that's
Speaker 3: true about Carl is that, yes, like Carl in Channel
Speaker 3: and in his other work, like created uniforms, created things
Speaker 3: that you know, we're black and white, created things that
Speaker 3: were like classic, and so there's a really boring way
Speaker 3: to do that. But I did love that because it's
Speaker 3: such a there's such a wide way to interpret Carl
Speaker 3: that everyone did get to kind of showcase their personality.
Speaker 3: Like we saw like kind of the best of how
Speaker 3: people could dress in a black and white ensemble or
Speaker 3: in like a classic feminine silhouette that I.
Speaker 2: Thought, you know, it was kind of fun.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I think I dur in the in the
Speaker 3: moment last night, I was like I was like, like,
Speaker 3: what's like, what's cool here? What's not cool here? And
Speaker 3: like and at the end of the day, I was like,
Speaker 3: this is fun. Like this this I think everyone kind
Speaker 3: of like did a really good job and to me,
Speaker 3: not a ton of like worse dressed, but did you
Speaker 3: have something dressed?
Speaker 2: Should we start there?
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's start with the bad ones. I I mean
Speaker 4: this not like horrible, huge mega flap doo doo cock guy.
Speaker 4: But considering how I don't always love what she wears,
Speaker 4: but she usually does, especially for the past couple of
Speaker 4: bat galas she has turned it out, I thought Lizzo
Speaker 4: was disappointing. Yes, extremely boring and like also a good
Speaker 4: instance of like. The only things that saved her were
Speaker 4: the styling, like her hair was great. There were not
Speaker 4: enough updues on the carpet last night, and also not
Speaker 4: enough hats, and Carl Lagerfeldt was very much a hat person.
Speaker 4: And the fact that like Dua Lipa wore that fucking
Speaker 4: Chanelle bride dress and didn't wear the little balo and
Speaker 4: hat that was worn with it on the runway, We're pointing, like,
Speaker 4: you know, it's giving like a lane stretching company, does
Speaker 4: nobody wear a hat or whatever the line is.
Speaker 3: With the Dua look, Like if Dua had worn not
Speaker 3: just the tiny hat that comes with that look, but
Speaker 3: like six more hats stacked on top of that hat,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like that's actually I think
Speaker 3: Janelle Mona did a version of that for the Mecca
Speaker 3: if here. But like my point is, like, you know,
Speaker 3: take it to the next level, Like I totally agree
Speaker 3: with that. And also like Coco, Chanelle famously wore that
Speaker 3: like boater hat like that, like that Audrey Heppern also
Speaker 3: wore like there were no boater hats. I also, honestly,
Speaker 3: I mean so esoteric, but like it would have been
Speaker 3: really cool even though this isn't Carl but it is Chanelle.
Speaker 3: If someone had done like an interpretation on like the
Speaker 3: Little Black Dress, you know what I mean, which like
Speaker 3: if there's like an avant garde way to do the
Speaker 3: little Little Black dress, Like I think that would have
Speaker 3: been like something kind of fun and interesting. But yeah, Lizzo, Lizzo,
Speaker 3: I think like it was like the pearls should have
Speaker 3: been smaller, and like the way the pearls draped on
Speaker 3: her just it didn't look well as well tailored as
Speaker 3: it could have.
Speaker 4: It was very it was very matronly. Yeah, matronly.
Speaker 2: There was a lot of tailoring issues on the runway up.
Speaker 3: Margot Robbie, one of the most beautiful women in the
Speaker 3: like in Hollywood.
Speaker 4: I'm like so tired with talking about it at this point,
Speaker 4: as I as I tweeted, it's like she's allergic to surveying. Yes,
Speaker 4: And I'm so worried about the Barbie scenario we have
Speaker 4: coming this summer. She just like everyone is like, oh,
Speaker 4: it's her style, so it's her, Like Chanelle Contract, I
Speaker 4: think she just has bad taste.
Speaker 3: I think she definitely has bad taste. You can't you can't,
Speaker 3: you're you allow these things to put on your body
Speaker 3: that is still a taste level. And with Margot Robbie,
Speaker 3: like that dress was a recreation of something from like
Speaker 3: the sixties, which is even.
Speaker 2: More of an issue.
Speaker 3: And and and also Emma Chamberlain in that like, I
Speaker 3: still don't know who.
Speaker 4: Emma Chamberlain is. I don't know who. It doesn't right,
Speaker 4: you don't need to, you know. I mean I thought Emma.
Speaker 4: I thought Emma Chamberlain was fine. It was she was
Speaker 4: wearing Mumeu and it was a very mu Meu look it.
Speaker 4: I don't think she needed to do an outfit change.
Speaker 4: But whatever I thought, Lolana's ex was a let down.
Speaker 4: It was just not a good execution of trying to
Speaker 4: do a shoe pette look. It just like it didn't
Speaker 4: read for me, and it just was like confusing and
Speaker 4: it was actually it was kind of an annoying look. Honestly, Yeah, okay,
Speaker 4: it was obnoxious. So if you saw the other photos
Speaker 4: of lil Na's wearing like this fit, he had like
Speaker 4: a huge white fur coat on top of it. And
Speaker 4: I think on the styling level, that actually would have
Speaker 4: like brought the look closer to like where it needed
Speaker 4: to be, like on the level that it needed to be.
Speaker 4: But I think that he took the coat off after
Speaker 4: like Doja Cat beat him to the red carpet because
Speaker 4: they didn't want to have like these kind of like
Speaker 4: same same like cat looks or whatever. And or maybe
Speaker 4: he wasn't wearing fur well, maybe did Jared leto get
Speaker 4: there first, like something happened. Maybe he was just hot.
Speaker 4: I don't know. Maybe I think he just wanted to
Speaker 4: like walk around feeling his like silver pussy fantasy and that.
Speaker 4: And if that's true, that's the problem because Divadal was
Speaker 4: dressed for battle him, like she was not dressed for
Speaker 4: the met gala, and I.
Speaker 3: Was like, if you if you look like you know
Speaker 3: a fagat Pride. That's not fashion. And if the only
Speaker 3: garments you're wearing our like heels and underwear, like they
Speaker 3: better be the best fucking heels and the best fucking
Speaker 3: underwear I've ever seen, and like zero, the cereals were
Speaker 3: really cute and I loved how they looked, but like,
Speaker 3: I don't know if that was the shoe for the look,
Speaker 3: and then the underwear didn't like contours, ass it wasn't
Speaker 3: really special.
Speaker 4: It's actually kind of the opposite problem is what we
Speaker 4: were talking about before. It's like too much styling and
Speaker 4: yeah enough look, yes, too much Like this is a
Speaker 4: fashion event, you should be I think, wearing a garment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you should be wearing a garment.
Speaker 3: Or to honor a designer or designed things. Yeah, yeah whatever.
Speaker 3: I don't need to like dwell on the little nose
Speaker 3: of it all.
Speaker 4: But let's talk about what we liked.
Speaker 2: Let's yeah, vibes, posy vibes.
Speaker 4: Okay, my number one, well, actually I think tied for
Speaker 4: number one of the night, and on very different ends
Speaker 4: of the spectrum were MICHAELA. Cole and Sciparelli like that
Speaker 4: like insane gold beaded dress to the foot, the like
Speaker 4: perfectly molded foot shoes incredible. And then on the other
Speaker 4: side of things and halfway mother mother Sleigh in in
Speaker 4: custom Versace like tweed Versace, like really like Versace doing
Speaker 4: Chanel in such an incredible way, and like Anne on
Speaker 4: the like on the total flip side from Margot Robie,
Speaker 4: like Anne has Eileen coming out of the end of
Speaker 4: this year and she has been slowly ramping up her
Speaker 4: fashion SNAr fantasy and like it can only get better
Speaker 4: from here.
Speaker 2: I Mikhaela Cole.
Speaker 3: Her fit was like a perfect example of like how
Speaker 3: you can interpret Carl anyway you want, and like the
Speaker 3: ornate like kind of details of her dress with like
Speaker 3: the little lipsticks and the little homages to Carl. It's
Speaker 3: like the look looks nothing like Carl, but like if
Speaker 3: you zoom in, it's Carl, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: Like that's.
Speaker 2: How you do it.
Speaker 3: It was so smart and I just Skiparelli's like one
Speaker 3: of my favorite you know designers to like behold and
Speaker 3: look at you know, so how could it be bad?
Speaker 3: But like Anne, does she have like a new stylist
Speaker 3: or something everything in the last she doesn't.
Speaker 4: She doesn't have a new stylist, but she did do.
Speaker 4: I think a Hollywood Reporter story with her stylist somewhat
Speaker 4: recently in which they said that they basically just decided
Speaker 4: to do this new era and just like ramp everything
Speaker 4: up to another level, and that she's like having the
Speaker 4: most fun she's ever had dressing and it really shows
Speaker 4: and all of the work she's been doing, specifically with Versace,
Speaker 4: which she is a face of. She's servant cunt and
Speaker 4: that's just it is what it is. Who were your
Speaker 4: favorites of the night?
Speaker 3: Yeah, and definitely was at the top of my list
Speaker 3: in terms of like, oh like unexpected, perfectly executed, stunning,
Speaker 3: gorg my favorites of the night. I think we're just
Speaker 3: everybody's favorites. I uh, you know, best dressed is always Rihanna.
Speaker 4: Even this year, you thought.
Speaker 3: One hundred and ten percent. I thought she was gonna
Speaker 3: skip the carpet, which she kind of did. She skipped
Speaker 3: the broadcast. She did the same thing last year, right exactly.
Speaker 3: I thought that because she wasn't gonna do it, I
Speaker 3: was like, oh, maybe she's like not pulling a stunt
Speaker 3: as much, and like last year, I felt like her
Speaker 3: carpet was fine. This year, I when her look was revealed, Rose,
Speaker 3: I was in my apartment like laugh like I had
Speaker 3: this like grin on my face. I was like laughing
Speaker 3: like crazy, like I thought it was fashion genius, like
Speaker 3: at its finest. And I know it's such an uninteresting
Speaker 3: and like uh shallow take to be like Rihanna won
Speaker 3: the mat Gala, but like I do think that this
Speaker 3: looks specifically is emblematic of like what is her genius
Speaker 3: in this fashion world? At a pay homage with Karl
Speaker 3: with these white flowers in a way that was like
Speaker 3: better than how Bunny did it, even though like bad
Speaker 3: Bunny was so good like and also.
Speaker 4: Oh his slutty sluttyosed back. It was for me.
Speaker 3: Rihanna with the sunglasses that with the Chanelle eyelashes on
Speaker 3: the sunglasses, like that was it for me. I was like,
Speaker 3: it was so great to stop styled like so perfectly executed.
Speaker 2: I loved.
Speaker 3: Obviously, Cardi's always best dressed, like that's obvious for me.
Speaker 3: I have some sleeper hits, which I guess I'll get into,
Speaker 3: But like, what were some of your other favorites? Nicole,
Speaker 3: of course, wearing her two thousand and four Chanelle perfume
Speaker 3: ad dress. I also really liked Jenna Ortega in Tom Brown.
Speaker 4: I thought she looked beautiful. I love a saddle shoe
Speaker 4: and she was wearing like a heeled Oxford saddle shoe.
Speaker 4: Thought she looked great. Gigi Hadid, who I have like recently,
Speaker 4: like started to after watching her host Next in Fashion,
Speaker 4: and then Doja cat Her and Michaela would be my
Speaker 4: top three of the night because Doja, it like is
Speaker 4: in a way a very simple look and it it
Speaker 4: is on theme and it's like gaggy without being overwhelmingly
Speaker 4: cost to me, like the cat prosthetics are still fashion,
Speaker 4: which I think.
Speaker 2: Is exactly and I felt like it.
Speaker 3: I thought Rihanna and Doja did something of the same
Speaker 3: thing where they took a kind of over the topness
Speaker 3: and then also elevated it with like an understatement, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. Like I felt like it was
Speaker 3: perfectly balanced, perfectly accessorized. Yeah, I mean, bad Bunny, I thought,
Speaker 3: was I know, so you said something very astute yesterday,
Speaker 3: which is that you know, men don't enter the list
Speaker 3: because men are just in a different category that don't
Speaker 3: need to be evaluated or should be evaluated.
Speaker 2: It's a different scale.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't include scale that Bunny really was like
Speaker 3: one of the best stressed for me, at least in
Speaker 3: the mentory department, if not like kind of in like
Speaker 3: my top list of like things that I remember just
Speaker 3: because the exposed back was so smart.
Speaker 4: Jakamu was so smart.
Speaker 3: Pedro Pascal looked amazing, I thought, like with the other
Speaker 3: guys that did well, I thought Brian Tyree Henry, And
Speaker 3: I also thought Diddy was like so classically Diddy. I
Speaker 3: feel so grateful for like things that he brings to fashion.
Speaker 4: Okay, let's move.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're like, okay, so none to men's ware.
Speaker 4: Kristen Stewart, I thought, oh, actually, sometimes she's kind of
Speaker 4: like hey mama's, Hey mama's love being representations as friend
Speaker 4: of the podcast Blyth the Marks said.
Speaker 3: I literally just learned what a hey Mama's what a
Speaker 3: hey mama's lesbian is And oh damn, I love Yeah,
Speaker 3: Kristen isn't always like, you know, amazing on the red
Speaker 3: carpet and she looked perfect well.
Speaker 4: No, I mean that's that's the thing is people have
Speaker 4: talked about how for the last couple of years she
Speaker 4: was another one of those girls who was seemingly locked
Speaker 4: into this sort of fausty bargain with Chanelle and was
Speaker 4: always wearing these weirdly feminine, ugly ass Chanel looks on
Speaker 4: red carpets and I love that for this, you know,
Speaker 4: Cara Lagerfeld carpet, she came out in a men's wear
Speaker 4: look like, looking like her strap weighed twenty pounds.
Speaker 2: It was so good. Okay sorry.
Speaker 3: Also asap, Rocky's men's wear look was really cool with
Speaker 3: the belts and the scar. I just what I liked
Speaker 3: about Aceop was just him standing on the side looking
Speaker 3: at Rihanna like like you are God. He is such
Speaker 3: a fucking wife guy. I love oh one hundred percent
Speaker 3: sleeper Hits, Sleeper Hits. I thought, like Glenn Clotes so beautiful.
Speaker 3: Tianna Taylor, like Tianna Taylor edible, that's how you show ass,
Speaker 3: Like sorry little nas.
Speaker 2: Like if you're gonna show ass, that's how you show ass.
Speaker 4: Like the hip cutout. Yeah, really giving body like wearing
Speaker 4: tweet another Tom Brown. I mean, the Tom Brown girlies
Speaker 4: really do slay kind of the most every year.
Speaker 3: I have yet to see the write up that that
Speaker 3: was like it was Tom Brown's night because it was
Speaker 3: his Antilia dressed so many fucking people, and you know
Speaker 3: that's probably because he's married to the director of the
Speaker 3: costume exhibit and also like famously does black and white.
Speaker 3: But like he should do Chanelle, Like there should be
Speaker 3: a Tom Brown Chanel collab, moment collections something like, I mean,
Speaker 3: maybe Tom Brown is actually too distinct for that, but like,
Speaker 3: I yeah, I thought that his looks were like winning
Speaker 3: all night long. I gener Ortega honestly in the Tom
Speaker 3: Brown Like that's again, it's like perfect, a perfect marriage
Speaker 3: of who Karl is and then who the celebrity is,
Speaker 3: right Lea Michelle Sleeper.
Speaker 4: Hit Barber Strides end.
Speaker 3: Realness a hundred percent of Barber reference Erica but two
Speaker 3: kind of a serve. I thought she looked so cool
Speaker 3: with a little like white curtainy thing.
Speaker 4: I know, it was kind of when she was doing
Speaker 4: her interview, it made it look like she had a mustache.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was like her mustache was like flopping, yeah,
Speaker 3: flopping around. If Florence Pew is going to debut a
Speaker 3: buzz cut, which is hot behavior, why would you wear
Speaker 3: like an ugly like headdress on top of the buzz
Speaker 3: cut to cover up the bus.
Speaker 4: She's another one who has really bad taste.
Speaker 3: Really, oh, I don't follow, I'm not at whatter Pew
Speaker 3: Florence Pew stands called I don't know.
Speaker 4: Pew, p puglinators, pullinators. When you told me seaking past deals,
Speaker 4: it should also be said that when you said Florence
Speaker 4: is debuting her buscuit, I was like, Florence Welch is
Speaker 4: debuting her bus. Yeah, she's cutting. She's removing the thing
Speaker 4: that she is most known, which is being an iconic
Speaker 4: redhead and debuting a buzz cut. Yeah, Florence Pugh has
Speaker 4: a really bad style.
Speaker 3: I feel like again, like, if you're going to talk
Speaker 3: about the Mecala, don't be so un fun about it.
Speaker 3: Like this is a grotesque display of capitalism and celebrity,
Speaker 3: and that's why we are all here for it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's the it's the super Bowl of fashion.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's the super Bowl of Fashion, which Rose and
Speaker 3: I will one day be at.
Speaker 4: Yeah sure, why not? I have the very least like
Speaker 4: on the sidelines. Yeah yeah, yeah, maybe not not walking
Speaker 4: you never know. I don't know that I would want
Speaker 4: to do that because I don't know if I can
Speaker 4: subject myself to that. I mean, I mean I don't
Speaker 4: want to be famous. Yeah, I don't ever want to
Speaker 4: subject myself to that level of public scrutiny.
Speaker 3: I do want to be famous, I know, I'm well aware. No,
Speaker 3: I don't know if I want to be famous. I'm
Speaker 3: like thinking about I'm like kombucha girl right now, Well,
Speaker 3: I yeah, do I want to be famous? I don't
Speaker 3: know if I want to be famous, But like, I
Speaker 3: love fashion. I want to participate in fashion. I love
Speaker 3: what MICHAELA. Cole said yesterday on the very terrible Vogue
Speaker 3: live stream.
Speaker 2: Girl, girl, girl, I love what MICHAELA Cole.
Speaker 3: She was like, I'm but a tourist in this industry,
Speaker 3: Like I'm not here to claim fashion, Like I'm just
Speaker 3: a tourist.
Speaker 4: And I was like, that's that's cheap. Like that's how
Speaker 4: I feel a lot of the time. That is cheap.
Speaker 3: But yeah, no, girl, that Vogue run that Vogue live stream,
Speaker 3: Like we don't need to get into details, but likeab.
Speaker 4: I need you know, it's giving super nanny. If you
Speaker 4: all are in a crisis, I'm on my way, Like
Speaker 4: the uh, the people hosting red carpets are not doing
Speaker 4: it the way they should and I need to get
Speaker 4: back out there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but you know, you know who should have
Speaker 3: been on the red carpet aside from us? Obviously you
Speaker 3: did tweet that the the resident Evil mom should have
Speaker 3: should have been walking.
Speaker 4: No, the Evil Dead mom.
Speaker 3: Oh right, Evil Dead, Resident Evil? Are those different entities
Speaker 3: or are they they are different?
Speaker 4: Yes? Okay, well you know I was close. You were close.
Speaker 2: Okay, what's the difference between the two?
Speaker 4: For the virgins? And then you can Resident Evil is,
Speaker 4: I believe, a video game series that has been adapted
Speaker 4: into a movie series, and then Evil Dead is a
Speaker 4: movie franchise about not like zombies, but possession movies. And
Speaker 4: I did, in fact, I did, in fact see the
Speaker 4: new Evil Dead film, Evil Dead Rise, on Friday, and
Speaker 4: I did love it. It was so fun. I was
Speaker 4: kind of having a bad day on Friday and needed
Speaker 4: to get out of my head and just like be
Speaker 4: scared and be no thoughts, had empty, just vibes, just
Speaker 4: spooky vibes, and the movie delivered exactly that. It's I mean,
Speaker 4: if anyone doesn't know about what Evil Dead is, it's
Speaker 4: this film franchise where there's this book called the Book
Speaker 4: of the Dead and people read it and then they
Speaker 4: get possessed by these like demonic entities who just want
Speaker 4: to create absolute chaos and like rip their bodies apart
Speaker 4: and the bodies of the people around them. And in
Speaker 4: this new film, the person that that happens to is
Speaker 4: a single mother living with her three children in an
Speaker 4: apartment building Los Angeles, and her sister comes to stay
Speaker 4: with them and her son, who's played by a transactor.
Speaker 4: Love to see that there's like a lot of trans
Speaker 4: representation in horror these days, which is great, and that
Speaker 4: mean horror is usually the place where we get representation first.
Speaker 4: That's like long been like a staple of the genre.
Speaker 4: And he like finds this book after an earthquake and
Speaker 4: then the mom becomes possessed and then starts like terrorizing
Speaker 4: her family, and it was so fun. The actress Alyssa
Speaker 4: Sutherland I believe, who plays the mom, is incredible and
Speaker 4: I truly believe she will win an Oscar someday. She
Speaker 4: just has this like gummy face that like it just
Speaker 4: was so perfect for being transformed into like absolute evil.
Speaker 4: Like the way that she smiles at her children is
Speaker 4: so menacing, and her physicality was great. I've been seeing
Speaker 4: a lot of her videos on TikTok. She did a
Speaker 4: lot of her own stunts, which is very cool, and
Speaker 4: the gore is insane. There's this one scene where someone
Speaker 4: gets their flesh scraped off with a cheese grater. And
Speaker 4: the opening scene of the film, so every Evil Dead
Speaker 4: movie has like a title card scene that's about something
Speaker 4: slightly different than the main action of the movie, And
Speaker 4: in this one, it's these people who are on vacation
Speaker 4: by a lake and this girl gets her scalp ripped off,
Speaker 4: and it's so good. Make it snatched, well literally snatched. Night,
Speaker 4: I had to do something I never do, which was
Speaker 4: fall asleep with the TV on.
Speaker 1: I couldn't.
Speaker 4: I was just so scared that like something was gonna
Speaker 4: crawl out of the darkness of my apartment. Yeah, like
Speaker 4: the soothing, comforting noise of a TV.
Speaker 3: Someone I went on a date with said that Evil
Speaker 3: Dead was kind of giving camp Is that.
Speaker 4: Yes, saying the original films are much campier, And then
Speaker 4: the series was kind of like soft rebooted in twenty
Speaker 4: thirteen with Evil Dead twenty thirteen, and that's much more.
Speaker 4: I haven't seen it, but I really want to. From
Speaker 4: what I understand, it's much more like Grim and like excellent,
Speaker 4: but not as cant be funny. I think this movie
Speaker 4: was probably like a sweet spot in between the two.
Speaker 4: Like one of the things that I really liked was
Speaker 4: the actress who played the mom. I saw an interview
Speaker 4: with her where someone was asking what she used for
Speaker 4: inspiration for her role, and one of the things she
Speaker 4: referenced was the Mask with Jim Carrey. That's because because
Speaker 4: she was thinking that this demonic entity, like once it
Speaker 4: was in a vessel, would be having so much fun
Speaker 4: inflicting terror on people, and that really came through in
Speaker 4: her performance, and it was even though it was like
Speaker 4: menacing and terrifying, it was really fun to watch. So
Speaker 4: I yeah, it is a little not not as much,
Speaker 4: but there's a couple like silly, goofy, campy moments throughout
Speaker 4: the film.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, honestly that that in and of itself makes
Speaker 3: me want to watch it. I never would have considered
Speaker 3: this movie had had you not thrown in my way.
Speaker 3: So I think I think I may, I may get
Speaker 3: my get my butt to an AMC if I can
Speaker 3: find a body to watch it with.
Speaker 4: You should you should find a fellow Stubb anista.
Speaker 3: Yeah, fellow Stubb anista, but you are no longer sad faced.
Speaker 4: I did. I told my my friend who I went
Speaker 4: to the movie with, I said, I'm making dinner reservations
Speaker 4: for us after because we saw it Alamo and I said,
Speaker 4: There's no way I can eat dinner while watching something
Speaker 4: that gory and like we couldn't.
Speaker 3: Even eat the popcorn. That's how stomach journey it was.
Speaker 3: Here's the thing, Rose, you know, we chatted a little
Speaker 3: bit about the Mechala. If there is someone who is
Speaker 3: like the girl that's gonna respond to every every single
Speaker 3: component of Megala coverage, it is a one. Mikel Street,
Speaker 3: our dear friend and former co worker, Mikel Street, is
Speaker 3: actually like the person to get into my DM saying well, actually,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, like actually loves she loves
Speaker 3: a well actually and like I did actually post something
Speaker 3: on my story last night about the Mecala and Mikel
Speaker 3: was like, well actually, and I'm like, come on, do
Speaker 3: you have to be right about like everything?
Speaker 4: And he does, and she is here today to give
Speaker 4: us a well actually about Anna Wintour HBI C of
Speaker 4: the met Gala and the magazine and basically the entire
Speaker 4: fashion world. So that's going to be very exciting, and
Speaker 4: I think we're gonna learn a lot.
Speaker 3: Yes, and we recorded this a while ago, so you know,
Speaker 3: no Megala coverage from my caw. But we well we
Speaker 3: talked about all things Anna and sempergreen.
Speaker 4: Fashion context exactly. I'm so cold, I'm so grown, I'm
Speaker 4: so real life, I'm so show off my diamonds designed
Speaker 4: to twinkle with light as the valley fills with darkness.
Speaker 4: Shadows chase and run around in the morning. I cheer
Speaker 4: for sunshine and I feel, but I don't feel enough
Speaker 4: in the midnight hours.
Speaker 1: I try to This is winter. That was Oh my god.
Speaker 3: I knew exactly what because I was listening, but I
Speaker 3: was just like, sounds like Edgar Allan Poe and she's
Speaker 3: giving lyrics. She's giving, she's giving darkness.
Speaker 4: Do any of those lyrics resonate you as a as
Speaker 4: a fan of person. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I didn't really listen. Clocked out, was like, where's you
Speaker 1: listen to? My women are talking? Well, what hath was?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: I just like I I don't remember any of them.
Speaker 4: Well, it's about being cold, being you know, like a
Speaker 4: fashion bitch.
Speaker 3: No I I I will say best song or maybe
Speaker 3: top three for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I try not to have best Azalea songs.
Speaker 3: You don't really do top threes, top fives in general,
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you would need a top fifty.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're you're like a you're a fat girl.
Speaker 1: I try to be so nuanced, and I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: it depends on how we're funny.
Speaker 5: Thing, The thing is, you don't.
Speaker 3: You don't try to be nuanced. You have a nuancing compulsion.
Speaker 3: You are compulsorily. Yeah, I want and therefore cannot say
Speaker 3: any You will not You cannot say or accept any platitudes, Yeah,
Speaker 3: any any sort of like flat statements. You will be
Speaker 3: like now wait a second. Yeah, And that is how
Speaker 3: we're going into this conversation, dear virsions. So every time
Speaker 3: Rose and I say literally anything, Michael will probably be like, well, actually.
Speaker 1: Well actually, but what happened was but no, I mean
Speaker 1: I think that like, yeah, that kind of idea of
Speaker 1: like being cold or even being perceived as really cold
Speaker 1: and like you don't care about people's feelings, I think
Speaker 1: is absolutely something that like people associate with Anna, and
Speaker 1: also that like I with and mostly because like I
Speaker 1: think that Anna, well like that growing up, I looked
Speaker 1: up to specifically women like Anna Winter, Kelly Coutron, and
Speaker 1: oh my god, there's another that I am not thinking of.
Speaker 1: Kelly Cotrone is a mother to many. Who's Kelly Catron?
Speaker 1: Oh my god. She's like a PR fashion icon. She
Speaker 1: had a show called kell on Earth. Oh if you
Speaker 1: did you watch The Hills or the OC. She was
Speaker 1: Lauren Conrad's bossy.
Speaker 4: She also did an iconic interview magazine issue recently talking
Speaker 4: about all these TikTok fashion girlies who show up at
Speaker 4: fashion week, like thinking there's somebody and she's like, no,
Speaker 4: you're nobody, Like.
Speaker 1: We don't care about you.
Speaker 4: So is she?
Speaker 5: So she is in PR. She's not like a socialite,
Speaker 5: she's not.
Speaker 1: She produces fashion show she used to produce like she
Speaker 1: used to her PR firm used to be the PR
Speaker 1: firm for London Fashion Week, like not just individual shows,
Speaker 1: and so she's done a lot of I think she
Speaker 1: used to have rough Rucci. She introduced a bunch of
Speaker 1: like Spanish and like other sort of international designers to
Speaker 1: New York Fashion Week and to the New York Qushian scene. Anyways,
Speaker 1: she has a book called If You Have to Cry don't.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you have to cry, go outside, Like
Speaker 1: that was one of her mantras and wodows, and she
Speaker 1: would always give her interns this speech that like like
Speaker 1: I don't care about your feelings. We're here to do work.
Speaker 1: Like I'm here to do a job, and like, if
Speaker 1: you have to cry, go outside, I don't want to
Speaker 1: hear it. If I tow you like. She also can't
Speaker 1: deal with this generation because she's like, if I toe
Speaker 1: to do something, do it, Like I just do It's
Speaker 1: I'm not going back and forth. Yeah, and so she
Speaker 1: was very like cut through anyways. So like the two
Speaker 1: of them and there's somebody else that like I'm for
Speaker 1: some reason, I can't think of who they are right now.
Speaker 1: Kind of really taught me the three of them and
Speaker 1: Grace Connington a little bit, but kind of shove so
Speaker 1: good and also very different like not but I want
Speaker 1: to read this quote from Kelly Catrone. We keep a
Speaker 1: lot of list.
Speaker 4: This is from I'm an interview magazine interview that she
Speaker 4: did recently. We keep a lot of lists. But this year,
Speaker 4: my team is really small, and she's talking about New
Speaker 4: York Fashion Week. I'm doing everything with four or five people.
Speaker 4: That doesn't include the people, but all of the interview requests,
Speaker 4: pre interview requests, post interview requests, celebrities, fake celebrities, fake
Speaker 4: ass fucking people who think their major who aren't. And
Speaker 4: I feel now that it's my job to tighten up
Speaker 4: the reins a little bit and say, sorry, I know
Speaker 4: you think you're in the fashion business because you have
Speaker 4: two million followers on TikTok, but you're not. You're a
Speaker 4: little kid from Laguna Beach or Orlando, Florida who has
Speaker 4: some kind of great skill with getting attention on the internet.
Speaker 4: But that doesn't make you a fashion influencer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's I don't even want to go into that,
Speaker 1: but ye honestly, that's all you can talk about that
Speaker 1: for like another hour. And so I'm wondering, is.
Speaker 4: This like this idea of the cutthroat leave your feelings
Speaker 4: of the door fashion diva, is that an archetype that
Speaker 4: predates Anna.
Speaker 1: Or with Diana or yeah? No, absolutely, I mean Diana
Speaker 1: was no that Diana was like very eccentric.
Speaker 5: And Diana Freeland for the versions.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure that like there has always existed this
Speaker 1: idea of this like woman who's like extremely ambitious and
Speaker 1: like cutthroat and like I'm sure that pre dated and
Speaker 1: was in fashion before Anna, but I it was. I
Speaker 1: respected Anna growing up. I like got into like voge
Speaker 1: at a very very young age. I mean I also
Speaker 1: got into fashion at a very young age. You remember
Speaker 1: how old you were. I can tell you the way
Speaker 1: that I try to explain to people how early I
Speaker 1: got into fashion was in the second or third grade.
Speaker 1: I believe it was the third grade. We had to
Speaker 1: write our first research paper, and I wrote a research
Speaker 1: paper on Charles Frederick Worth, who was widely considered to
Speaker 1: be like the father of couture. And like I remember obviously,
Speaker 1: like I was in the second or I think I
Speaker 1: was in third grade, and so I don't know anything
Speaker 1: about like photo rights and stuff like that. But I
Speaker 1: remember going to Google dot com and typing in his
Speaker 1: name and then just going to Google images and like
Speaker 1: pulling in onto like my cover letter, so I could
Speaker 1: have these like images of dresses. Now you would be
Speaker 1: sued over exactly Obviously I didn't know anything about it.
Speaker 1: You did not have account but like that's how early
Speaker 1: I became cognizant. Well that I can show that I
Speaker 1: knew that I was interested in and that and was.
Speaker 4: It was it like the clothes themselves or the culture
Speaker 4: of fashion.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that like the I think this is
Speaker 1: for everyone with fashion. I think like you first come
Speaker 1: to the clothes and like that's the thing, and then
Speaker 1: like you realize like everything else. And I think so
Speaker 1: many people from the youngest age you were interested in
Speaker 1: the clothes, and so you might draw the closer like
Speaker 1: where you know, try to style things which obviously are
Speaker 1: you wear them. You try a blanket around your exactly,
Speaker 1: and a ball all of those kinds of things. And
Speaker 1: then I think that once you become exposed to like
Speaker 1: learning like oh there's magazines. Oh there's this other thing.
Speaker 1: Oh there's this, and then you start being like, oh,
Speaker 1: actually I mentioned in the clothes, but like I don't
Speaker 1: want to design them, like I want to do this
Speaker 1: other thing. And I like very quickly became aware of
Speaker 1: magazines and so like when I was in high school.
Speaker 1: When I was in middle school, I started a blog.
Speaker 1: But when I was in high school, I like started
Speaker 1: like stealing magazines from the library same because we couldn't
Speaker 1: afford them. And then like when I was able to
Speaker 1: like some kind of way started making money. I started
Speaker 1: getting these subscriptions, and I remember that my mother was like,
Speaker 1: you cannot have more than eight magazine subscriptions because there's
Speaker 1: no way for you to read. I'm tapping eight magazines
Speaker 1: a month, and you did. But you did though, But
Speaker 1: I mean I would read them all everything I went,
Speaker 1: and I when I moved out to go to college,
Speaker 1: we I had these like bookshelves that were just all
Speaker 1: of my magazines. Like I can't justide there was so many.
Speaker 4: Very carry Bradshaw with all the vogues that she used
Speaker 4: to buy instead of food because she felt they fed
Speaker 4: more very bad. I love that your fashion origin story
Speaker 4: is also an origin story about you know, how you became,
Speaker 4: how you fell in love with the complex world of
Speaker 4: photo licensing. And I love that that is just you know,
Speaker 4: because that is you know, part of your person. We
Speaker 4: are meant to be a journal No, I don't think
Speaker 4: you guys quite understand.
Speaker 1: Like I ran this blog and I was like, do
Speaker 1: you want this blog? I had I don't know, multiple.
Speaker 4: Time.
Speaker 1: Yes, I had multiple blogs when I was younger, and
Speaker 1: then like I knew that I wanted to be a
Speaker 1: fashion writer a journalist so much, and I wanted to
Speaker 1: like review fashion shows, and so I would I was
Speaker 1: so like directional that, like I was like, I know
Speaker 1: this is what I want to do, so how can
Speaker 1: I do a version of that now? So back then
Speaker 1: I was like, I want to be like Tim Blinks.
Speaker 1: I want to be like Kathy Horn. I want to
Speaker 1: be I want to go to these shows and review them.
Speaker 1: And I know that like so much of that as speed,
Speaker 1: and so like I would tell myself like I had
Speaker 1: like a specific amount of time after photos came out
Speaker 1: back then style dot Com from the time Photos came
Speaker 1: out to write a review on my blog and like
Speaker 1: I was like, and so that is actually way you
Speaker 1: savage in your reviews.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you were like setting trash down the runway
Speaker 3: middle school.
Speaker 1: And I was like so dead serious about like this
Speaker 1: is what I want to do with my life and
Speaker 1: like this is how I get there, and so like
Speaker 1: then it was nothing. When I like moved to New
Speaker 1: York and I like met this person who worked at
Speaker 1: the site at the time called now Fashion and they
Speaker 1: do a lot of the fashion photography runway photography at
Speaker 1: fashion shows. But at the time they were building essentially
Speaker 1: what now so many publications do, which was they would
Speaker 1: shoot the the the shows, but then they would I
Speaker 1: don't know how they did this, but stream essentially stream
Speaker 1: the shots so like you could watch photos come pop
Speaker 1: up on your screen as they were going down the runway.
Speaker 1: And they started to build a team of writers to
Speaker 1: write reviews for them, and our deadline, I believe was
Speaker 1: three hours after a show ends.
Speaker 4: We had to have a review, and well, tund especially
Speaker 4: for your first.
Speaker 1: Job, and well that was It wasn't most writers, it
Speaker 1: was not, but it was mine, and it was easy
Speaker 1: because like I was like, oh, I haven't known this
Speaker 1: for years. Yeah, like I wasn't at the shows, but
Speaker 1: like I have been doing this kind of stuff. And
Speaker 1: then this is also what made me like so like
Speaker 1: big on like taking opinion and like sticking with it,
Speaker 1: which is also something I learned for Ann that I learned,
Speaker 1: you know, watching things with Anna Winter was my editor
Speaker 1: at the time. She was like, every you were writing critiques,
Speaker 1: you were writing criticism. So every piece you write has
Speaker 1: to have a piece of Every review you write has
Speaker 1: to have a piece of criticism in it. It does
Speaker 1: not necessarily have to criticize the designer or the designs.
Speaker 1: It can be criticism of the industry. It can be
Speaker 1: a criticism of whatever. You don't have to say something
Speaker 1: as bad, but there needs to be some part of
Speaker 1: criticism in every review you write, and you need to
Speaker 1: be able to like stand behind that and like you know,
Speaker 1: write through it. And so that's what I did for
Speaker 1: my first, like really my first job in New York City.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, that's what I remember going to like that,
Speaker 1: I got to go to crazy shows with that. I
Speaker 1: went to a Valentino Valentino Couture show when they came
Speaker 1: to New York City. I went to the Door show.
Speaker 1: But my first big deal show the first time that
Speaker 1: I was ever intimidated. Mind you, I had been writing
Speaker 1: for her for maybe a year of shows, I think,
Speaker 1: but the first show that was ever intimidated, I went
Speaker 1: to a Mark Jacobs show, and I was intimidated because
Speaker 1: I knew that, like my review was going to be
Speaker 1: coming out with like everyone who's anyone in fashion who
Speaker 1: was writing reviews at the time, we're going to be
Speaker 1: We're at this show and we're going to be writing
Speaker 1: and like my review was going to come out at
Speaker 1: the same time or before there, and so like I
Speaker 1: was paranoid about it was for the first time. I
Speaker 1: was paranoid about being wrong that I would like have
Speaker 1: about his show and like critique it and then like
Speaker 1: everyone else's piece would be like talking about something completely different.
Speaker 1: And so I wrote my review and I sent it
Speaker 1: in and it was the first time this has ever happened.
Speaker 1: I sent it in and she sent it back and
Speaker 1: she was like, you were grouped. She was like, this
Speaker 1: is not a review, this is a description because you
Speaker 1: didn't you were too soft. I didn't know because I
Speaker 1: did exactly which I just described what happened, and she
Speaker 1: was like, we have pictures we can see. So I
Speaker 1: had to like sit down and like she was like
Speaker 1: and she was like, I don't know what's going on
Speaker 1: with you, like because she had an opinion. So she
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know what's going on, but you
Speaker 1: have a few hours.
Speaker 3: If Rose and I were talking to you and someone
Speaker 3: brought up something, you know, if someone brought us something
Speaker 3: about fashion and you didn't say something, I would be holding.
Speaker 1: My hand to your four half be like are you okay?
Speaker 1: Go towards the light. But yeah, so like anyways, I
Speaker 1: say all this to say, but all of that also
Speaker 1: was kind of instilled in me. Even like my management
Speaker 1: style for better for worse, I feel like I got
Speaker 1: from like watching like the September issue and watching Boss Women,
Speaker 1: which was like this, which Anna is. Yeah, they had
Speaker 1: an episode on her, and it was about like, don't
Speaker 1: like mess around, don't be unsure about what you want.
Speaker 1: You need to be extremely direct with people and tell
Speaker 1: them exactly what you want. And they might be upset
Speaker 1: with you, but as long as they understand what you're
Speaker 1: going for, then like it's going to be for the
Speaker 1: better in the end. And like if you're direct with
Speaker 1: them and you communicate well enough, you can let them
Speaker 1: go do what they do, Like you need to tell
Speaker 1: them what you need. And like I think that, like
Speaker 1: obviously I have had to learn like how to finesse that,
Speaker 1: but I think that that has always been at the
Speaker 1: core of like how I try to manage people, is
Speaker 1: like I try to identify the best people in the room,
Speaker 1: which I think Anna, you know, to her credit that
Speaker 1: I don't think that people give her credit for being
Speaker 1: able to like identify Grace and Andrea and hey man
Speaker 1: and like all of those people and people like Anna's
Speaker 1: not creative, like she has no sense of style. Blah blah, blah.
Speaker 1: She doesn't have to because she she identified all of
Speaker 1: those people and like brought them together. And then the
Speaker 1: reality is that American Vogue is what it is not
Speaker 1: because of the creativity. It's because of the fact that
Speaker 1: it's a commercial It realizes that fashion is a commercial business,
Speaker 1: like it's a retail business, and like, how do we
Speaker 1: channel all this creativity and like artsy, fartsy whatever, which
Speaker 1: I love, But how do we channel that into selling garments?
Speaker 1: And I think that like that's why she she you know,
Speaker 1: she doesn't have to do that. She can have grace
Speaker 1: and you can have them fight and grace skin. Oh
Speaker 1: I want this, I want this, And like Anne's like,
Speaker 1: oh that's great, but like we're selling coachs this season,
Speaker 1: so like these three photos have to go. Where where
Speaker 1: do you think that comes from?
Speaker 4: With her?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I don't know. I mean like I
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know, Like I know little bit
Speaker 1: about her origin story, but like it's interesting because her
Speaker 1: family was all like her. They all look down on her.
Speaker 1: Oh like her family is all like now that sounds right,
Speaker 1: well because they're all like serious, like intellectual or like whatever.
Speaker 1: So like her, I think her little brother was like
Speaker 1: at one point was like the politics editor of like
Speaker 1: the Telegraph, and her father was like this great editor
Speaker 1: and like, so they were like serious people and so
Speaker 1: like for the long time, there's this rumor, and I
Speaker 1: believe it that like she was trying to like become
Speaker 1: an ambassador. Uh, And I always thought that it was
Speaker 1: because she really wanted validation from like her family, her family.
Speaker 1: But she came up in this family that at the
Speaker 1: very you know, we don't know what happened in that family,
Speaker 1: but we know that like all of those kids were
Speaker 1: like high achieving, like mostly serious. And she says in
Speaker 1: the September issue, she's like when they ask her about
Speaker 1: her family and what they think of her work, they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: they think it's what did she say? They think it's
Speaker 1: what I do is silly? I think is it like
Speaker 1: the word? And like also you get this deeply un
Speaker 1: serious basically and like but basically she was like, they
Speaker 1: think I play games. It's like, well, she well, these
Speaker 1: belts are exactly the same.
Speaker 4: Then it kind of makes sense that she has turned
Speaker 4: her place in this industry that could be seen as
Speaker 4: very silly or frivolous into one that is extremely.
Speaker 5: Serious, the most serious, and.
Speaker 1: That's why I've always that's also why I think that
Speaker 1: I gravitated towards her over everyone else. And like, obviously
Speaker 1: I don't know maybe there were other editors who were
Speaker 1: doing this, but like when I was like watching the
Speaker 1: September issue in particular, the things that were like so
Speaker 1: impressive to me was like I was like, I want
Speaker 1: to be in a position where like I am able
Speaker 1: to like a mango comes to me and ask me
Speaker 1: who they should work with next, right, like and I
Speaker 1: can be able to say, oh, to Kuon is the designer,
Speaker 1: or like I want to be able to like have
Speaker 1: lunches with like these retailers and like have conversations about like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is these designers are doing really great things, like
Speaker 1: what is the disconnect? You know, how can we make
Speaker 1: this industry like work in a way that's like better
Speaker 1: for the entire industry? And like I've always been interested
Speaker 1: in that kind of state craft, which is what I
Speaker 1: think was she was into and.
Speaker 5: Diploma diplomacy, Yeah, that's really what it was.
Speaker 1: And and and I think I have always been cognizant
Speaker 1: and interested in like that. And I think that like people,
Speaker 1: you know, sort of reduce it to just like Vogue
Speaker 1: as the magazine or whatever, but like she really sees
Speaker 1: it as the global industry that it is, and like,
Speaker 1: what is it the rising tide raises all shifts and
Speaker 1: like how do I like do things that help the
Speaker 1: entire industry, which Vogue will obviously profit from, right, And
Speaker 1: so I think that's why I always I've always been interested. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I don't think that she's been extremely like personally creative
Speaker 1: or whatever, but I'm like, you don't need to be,
Speaker 1: because this is also just as much a business and
Speaker 1: like about numbers and about diplomacy and like all these
Speaker 1: things and anything else.
Speaker 3: I think that diplomacy like makes her someone who is
Speaker 3: able to like straddle a lot of worlds at the
Speaker 3: same time, please a lot of people at the same time,
Speaker 3: manage a ton of relationships.
Speaker 4: And I think part.
Speaker 3: Of like what you you're like outlining with her relationship
Speaker 3: to the fashion industry, I think shows that she came
Speaker 3: into it and she really like templatized a way of
Speaker 3: working and being in fashion that is now how a
Speaker 3: lot of mainstream magazines work. Like she institutionalized I think
Speaker 3: publishing and also just like a way of being an
Speaker 3: editor that just permeates every job, every publishing job will
Speaker 3: ever be at. So even if I've not, I personally
Speaker 3: have never like been on Conde's payroll, but.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of the places I've worked at.
Speaker 3: You know, have a cone de kind of sensibility of
Speaker 3: working because of how Anna gets it done.
Speaker 4: And I feel like.
Speaker 3: That this like archetype or this kind of card tune
Speaker 3: that people paint her as sometimes, which I think is
Speaker 3: like an accurate cartoon, comes from her, like her institutionalization
Speaker 3: of like fashion, like it comes from her leading with
Speaker 3: the character before trying to be like really personable, I guess,
Speaker 3: and not even just.
Speaker 4: In fashion, like she is she is this hold over
Speaker 4: of a of a bygone era of the magazine industry,
Speaker 4: Like she is the last of a dying breed of
Speaker 4: high powered magazine editors who like now kind of only
Speaker 4: exist in fiction.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I on one hand, I'm like Anna
Speaker 1: is very much the last and also in waghs the first.
Speaker 5: But because she has so many children, because she is.
Speaker 1: I think that like in many ways she is the
Speaker 1: last of like a generation of editors. But yeah, like
Speaker 1: I think that like everyone is trying to wrap the Kate,
Speaker 1: the kind of influence and power that Vogue has in
Speaker 1: like their own ways and like in influencing their industries
Speaker 1: or you know whatever, like in their own ways, And
Speaker 1: I don't you know obviously, I like, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to try to say that, like I have like a
Speaker 1: comprehensive idea of like how all editors are and were
Speaker 1: prior to her, But I think you've got a pretty
Speaker 1: good idea.
Speaker 6: Girl, Like, well, yeah, Rose, do you remember like your
Speaker 6: first like or some of your like what your earliest
Speaker 6: like impressions of Anna might have been or Vogue.
Speaker 4: I think for me, growing up as a little pre
Speaker 4: woman gay kid in Florida, I think I understood that
Speaker 4: fashion was something that, as a queer person, I was
Speaker 4: supposed to be interested in, and because of that, I
Speaker 4: would buy Vogue and try to like manufacture an interest
Speaker 4: in it. And like, don't get me wrong, like I'm
Speaker 4: interested in fashion.
Speaker 1: I think I'm more.
Speaker 4: Interested in the cultural aspect of fashion than like even
Speaker 4: the I mean I like clothes, sure, but I don't
Speaker 4: care about fashion in the way that that you do.
Speaker 4: But I it felt like, you know, we were talking
Speaker 4: when we did our Missus Doubtfire episode, we talked about
Speaker 4: how like I talked about how one of the things
Speaker 4: I loved about that was the scene where they're giving
Speaker 4: Roma Williams the makeover and they're like referencing all these
Speaker 4: things that like there's this like shared queer language, and
Speaker 4: I guess that's what I kind of felt like Vogue
Speaker 4: was and what being interested in fashion was, it was
Speaker 4: being part of that shared queer cultural language. And so
Speaker 4: I think that's probably when I started understanding who Anna
Speaker 4: Wintour was. But it was definitely the Devil's Product that
Speaker 4: was That was the thing, Oh that made me know
Speaker 4: who she was because I read the book when it
Speaker 4: first came out, and it was like this huge, like
Speaker 4: publishing sensation. And I think the first time I really
Speaker 4: knew who she was was when I read the book
Speaker 4: and someone said, oh, that's about Anna Wintour.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 5: I think this was pre Devil War's product Slash.
Speaker 3: I didn't watch Doubles product until years after it came out.
Speaker 1: But I think one of my.
Speaker 3: First one of my earlier fashion memories, I was trying
Speaker 3: to think of the first Vogue that I ever bought,
Speaker 3: and I'm I want to say it was the one
Speaker 3: with Gaga on it, the huge McQueen gown.
Speaker 5: It was a very gray cover. She had gray hair
Speaker 5: at the time.
Speaker 3: And I remember either in this issue or around this issue,
Speaker 3: Annie Leebowitz was doing all those Disney recreations.
Speaker 1: Of photos with celebrities so good. Was that for Vogue
Speaker 1: or was it? Yeah, that's pretty sure.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure was for Vogue. Okay, So that's like
Speaker 3: one of my earliest memories. And I because of that
Speaker 3: series started to like idolize any Libuwitz back when she
Speaker 3: was relevant and like it captured my imagination at an
Speaker 3: access point that made sense to me as like however
Speaker 3: old I was. And I think that that is probably
Speaker 3: something that they were thinking about when they were doing
Speaker 3: the shoot. They were like, this is something that kids
Speaker 3: understand and that adults also think is cool.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I think that, like I, I mean,
Speaker 1: I have actually never like said this out loud, So
Speaker 1: we're going to see how it goes. But yeah, it's
Speaker 1: interesting to me because years ago, like obviously, fashion was
Speaker 1: like so fantastical and like this the things that Annie
Speaker 1: was doing and Grace was doing, and like all these
Speaker 1: people were doing, Like I I was going back to
Speaker 1: watch the September issue and like thinking about like the
Speaker 1: twenties shoot that they did and like, and I think
Speaker 1: it was interesting because it was at a time where
Speaker 1: people were not necessarily interested in fashion for clothes, and
Speaker 1: so they had to do all of this other stuff,
Speaker 1: would like make sure that it told this great, big
Speaker 1: story on this extremely large scale to get people interested.
Speaker 1: But I think that because more people are interested simply
Speaker 1: in fashion and like the clothes themselves, I think that
Speaker 1: that has allowed Vogue to be a little less like
Speaker 1: they don't have to go that far because people are
Speaker 1: also simply just coming to look at the clothes as
Speaker 1: well as the celebrities that are involved. And so I've
Speaker 1: never said that like out loud before. And obviously this
Speaker 1: also has to do with like budgets being slashes, so
Speaker 1: there's simply not budgets to like do all of that.
Speaker 1: And it has to do with the fact that it
Speaker 1: takes so much more to convince the celebrity to like
Speaker 1: give in to a creative brief because of social media
Speaker 1: and the fact that like they don't need to do
Speaker 1: that in order to be like and be in front
Speaker 1: of and speak to their consumers. But I do think
Speaker 1: that that the general publics, like increase in fashion knowledge
Speaker 1: largely due to Vogue, has allowed Vogue to like scale
Speaker 1: back and because people will just look at the images
Speaker 1: for the pieces as opposed to like needing to necessarily
Speaker 1: be transported in everything.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it does make me wonder, like what in twenty
Speaker 4: and twenty three is the function of Vogue and is
Speaker 4: the function of anointur.
Speaker 3: Because like, I don't know, I'd be curious to know,
Speaker 3: like your trajectory, like how you would analyze the trajectory,
Speaker 3: because I feel like a lot of people would say
Speaker 3: that like Vogue's like golden age is like over for
Speaker 3: to put it flatly, which you'll probably nuance for me,
Speaker 3: But like, I feel like a lot of people are
Speaker 3: feeling like, especially in a social media era where everyone's
Speaker 3: you know, holding people accountable and like problematizing images online
Speaker 3: immediately that because Vogue is now under so much content
Speaker 3: constant scrutiny along with like every other media brand.
Speaker 5: It's like lost its luster.
Speaker 3: It feels like it's not a lot of times, it
Speaker 3: feels like it's not on trend. I'm thinking about that, Harry,
Speaker 3: was it the Hairy Styles cover that was like these
Speaker 3: gender fluid icons or whatever, or like things like that's
Speaker 3: like a kind of that's a superficial example.
Speaker 1: But things like that, I think that was That's what
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 4: Gig insane.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think it's really interesting. I think that, like,
Speaker 1: I think two things are true. I think that, like
Speaker 1: people have these expectations of Vogue, particularly people who live
Speaker 1: in New York in or hyper online, these expectations of
Speaker 1: Vogue that Vogue is going to be forward thinking because
Speaker 1: when they were younger, Vogue was forward thinking. But the
Speaker 1: thing is, when they were younger, they weren't hyper online,
Speaker 1: and they weren't in New York. They were in South
Speaker 1: Carolina and Oklahoma.
Speaker 3: And with no iPhones, no social media, no nothing, and
Speaker 3: so Vogue.
Speaker 1: Was ahead for them. And I think that the reality
Speaker 1: is that like for people who are not hyper online
Speaker 1: and who are not in these big cities, Vogue is
Speaker 1: still ahead.
Speaker 5: It's still ahead.
Speaker 1: And so I think that like people just have a
Speaker 1: different because the Internet, people have a different unders like
Speaker 1: people who are in these cities who are hyper online
Speaker 1: or like much further than they were, and so they're
Speaker 1: now in the same place that someone in New York
Speaker 1: is and so they're like, oh, this is so behind. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's like, well, Vogue isn't actually for you specifically,
Speaker 1: Like it's actually like a mass magazine, and so like
Speaker 1: when people say things like, oh, like I look at
Speaker 1: American Vogue, and I look at Vogue Talia and British Vogue,
Speaker 1: and like all the other vogues are so further ahead
Speaker 1: than American Vogue, And it's like, I don't really know
Speaker 1: that the average American consumer is thinks that, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: it thinks that or is like as like editorially and
Speaker 1: visually ahead as some of these other places, Like I
Speaker 1: think I just don't. It's I was talking about this
Speaker 1: with someone online the other day, but not about vote
Speaker 1: but about another topic. I just think that, Like I
Speaker 1: think it's important to really like understand like who the
Speaker 1: customer of the product is that you're judging. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that like the line chair of the customer for
Speaker 1: Vogue is not where most of the critics are. That's
Speaker 1: a way of putting it.
Speaker 4: It does feel very in a way kind of like
Speaker 4: Middle America, like it is because that market is so
Speaker 4: much bigger. Like I actually, for Christmas this year got
Speaker 4: a gift of a coffee table book of Vogue images
Speaker 4: and it was like.
Speaker 1: It was such a mom gift, you know, it was not.
Speaker 1: It was crazy.
Speaker 4: It was like And I also gave a coffee table
Speaker 4: gift as a as a gift to someone, and I
Speaker 4: gave them a Jill Sander coffee table book, and I
Speaker 4: was like, Okay, this is like the difference.
Speaker 1: You know, these are the two genders.
Speaker 4: I'm also realizing that maybe even pre dating the Double
Speaker 4: Wars product is the episode of Sex and the City
Speaker 4: where Carrie goes to Vogue and she drunk. I'm drunk
Speaker 4: at Vogue and she gets paid two dollars and fifty
Speaker 4: cents a word.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, never watched Sex and the City. But
Speaker 1: I do know that you never watched Sex and this stuff.
Speaker 1: You ever worked somewhere where you got paid per word.
Speaker 3: We need like a Sex and the City induction program,
Speaker 3: like we need actually it's just come over to my apartment,
Speaker 3: yehide pay and like there are a lot of people
Speaker 3: who have never seen in the City.
Speaker 5: We look versions we at we at Loretta LLC.
Speaker 3: The name of our business, are here to tell you
Speaker 3: that if you know someone in need who has never
Speaker 3: seen the sex, I'll give you.
Speaker 4: We will give you friends h because there are too
Speaker 4: many people, you see.
Speaker 1: Yes, we will, we will. We we're here to we
Speaker 1: call it mutual aid. Yes, we love a support group.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I do want to talk about because I think
Speaker 4: you can't have a conversation about Anna and about Vogue
Speaker 4: without talking about the Met galat.
Speaker 1: You know, the Met Gala.
Speaker 4: In recent years has really become something different than I
Speaker 4: think a lot of us remember it as being a
Speaker 4: It is the Halloween Adventure, you know, the musical. What
Speaker 4: is What would your dream Met Gala theme be?
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I have no clue. I mean I think,
Speaker 1: think about it, think about it, think about it. We
Speaker 1: can come back. What do you think of the What
Speaker 1: do you think of this year's theme? The Carl Lagerfeld? Yeah, oh,
Speaker 1: I mean it's whatever. It's like when we have these conversations,
Speaker 1: it's like so important like also acknowledge that like these
Speaker 1: events and like the progression of them do not happen
Speaker 1: in a vacuum. And so like just like we're saying,
Speaker 1: like these are different than we are used to you
Speaker 1: also have to like remember that, like celebrities are very
Speaker 1: different than they used to be, and so like I
Speaker 1: think like some of them like are not going to
Speaker 1: go out there and like try these things, and some
Speaker 1: of them are and like some of like I just
Speaker 1: they that they have a sense of independence in ways
Speaker 1: that like they may not have in the in the past.
Speaker 1: I think because like social media, because of social media,
Speaker 1: and I just I don't know, I mean, I it's
Speaker 1: it's always really interesting to me to see the Magala looks.
Speaker 5: Do you have a favorite of the past or like
Speaker 5: a fave Metcala look.
Speaker 1: Or at least favorite or a met Gala No not
Speaker 1: to have Mecala. I don't, I mean, I don't. I mean,
Speaker 1: like I love the exhibits. They're like always really great.
Speaker 1: And then China if it was so good. I still
Speaker 1: think about the McQueen exhibit. Oh my god, that was.
Speaker 4: I actually went the last day it was open, was
Speaker 4: on my birthday, and I went and the line was
Speaker 4: five hours long. And thankfully someone I knew was a
Speaker 4: docent in the museum and saw me in line and
Speaker 4: like plucked me out wow and took me and I
Speaker 4: got to cut the line.
Speaker 3: That was so jealous. That was I never got to
Speaker 3: go because the lines were so crazy.
Speaker 1: For that speaking of like sort of like the homonormativity
Speaker 1: of it, all Like I did think it was so
Speaker 1: hilarious when I moved to New York that like if
Speaker 1: gays thought themselves to be fashionable or edgy, they all
Speaker 1: had the Alazon McQueen book.
Speaker 4: Yeah, or the Scar or the scar they have either
Speaker 4: Alzon Queen, Like there's two books for like fashion art gays.
Speaker 1: I was in McQueen. Tom Ford they have one of
Speaker 1: them and then they're there. They're two different types of gays. Okay,
Speaker 1: what are you? What are your coffee table books? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have a lot of them. Actually I do have.
Speaker 1: I have the China one. Okay, that's I have a
Speaker 1: tom Ford book. But also actually on the coffee table
Speaker 1: is none of those books. On the coffee table is
Speaker 1: a door book, which is a fashion book. But then
Speaker 1: I also have a tom Finlin book, which is I
Speaker 1: need two of them? Are me?
Speaker 4: That is you I need some more porn for my
Speaker 4: coffee table. I do have two DVDs that I picked
Speaker 4: up in the desert. Twink Light is on my coffee
Speaker 4: and whatever the I think, like the some bisexual porn one.
Speaker 1: Good to know that you're.
Speaker 5: Looking for some more of porn.
Speaker 1: That is my you know category.
Speaker 4: Yes, I also have a Vivian Westwood coffee table book.
Speaker 4: I have.
Speaker 1: What else is there?
Speaker 4: There's like, oh, I have the Sex and the City
Speaker 4: books that's bound in pink faux crocodile skin.
Speaker 1: Antoine's book that is actually on my coffee table. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: sorry for the listeners. It's The Black Black Guard. It's
Speaker 1: a great photography book. But you were talking about DVD's.
Speaker 4: I have.
Speaker 1: I own like four.
Speaker 5: DVDs and like vintage porn DVDs.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, just DVD's period. And three of
Speaker 1: them are born. No, just kidding, I mean they're not far.
Speaker 1: They're Andy Warhol films. They are the Joe dallas Andro trilogy. Wait,
Speaker 1: is that the pornographic one? The one they're they're the
Speaker 1: ones that were there. That's why I was like, they're
Speaker 1: not born, but.
Speaker 4: But they were.
Speaker 5: They were banned because they were pornographic, right, Oh, I
Speaker 5: have no clue.
Speaker 1: And I took a fucking Warhol in film class when
Speaker 1: I was in college and fell in love with those
Speaker 1: in my hustler too, And so then I was dating
Speaker 1: someone and he knew that I was such a fan,
Speaker 1: and so then he because I watched one of them,
Speaker 1: and then he bought me all three of them. And
Speaker 1: then my other film was Oh, j Edgar, j Edgar.
Speaker 1: It's about j Edgar Hoover, but it's like the gay storyline.
Speaker 1: What's his name? Armie Hammer I think plays his lover
Speaker 1: the gag there's a gay our favorite. I love Armie Hammer.
Speaker 4: I need to get a DVD player so I can
Speaker 4: watch twink Light. I've also been considering getting the double
Speaker 4: vhs of Titanic to have on my coffee table.
Speaker 1: Oh that's the way. I have Endless Frank Oceans DVD.
Speaker 1: I bought that. I don't have a DVD player, so
Speaker 1: I just have all these DVDs, like for Clout, they're
Speaker 1: art that what they call par exactly.
Speaker 3: I have not actually read a lot of these coffee
Speaker 3: table books.
Speaker 1: Yeah for me, coffee table No.
Speaker 4: The Vivian Westwood book I have is when my friend
Speaker 4: got me for my birthday and when he came over
Speaker 4: to my apartments, heute, He's like, oh, have you read this? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I was like, it's a coffee table book, it's just
Speaker 1: on the table. I haven't cracked my Tom of Finland.
Speaker 1: I have that, like so my friend Ron Takman love
Speaker 1: you bought it for me and it's like the double
Speaker 1: lexcel book.
Speaker 3: It's not this one. It's the double cell one. Okay,
Speaker 3: we're yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: And so I think the double XL because a lot
Speaker 1: of the small books are actually like sections of this book,
Speaker 1: which is like the full big book. And I refuse
Speaker 1: to open it because I'm like, I know the second
Speaker 1: that I open it, I'm not gonna I'm just going
Speaker 1: to keep opening and those pages are going to get sticky.
Speaker 1: I don't know about, but like I can just like
Speaker 1: see like smudges and like the spine, and like I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm going to have to buy.
Speaker 3: Coffee table books are not meant to be read right there.
Speaker 3: Just sit there and put coasters on your coffee.
Speaker 1: You coasters on. Someone put up coaster on my Tom
Speaker 1: with the then book and I told them to get out.
Speaker 1: I was like, get oh, I.
Speaker 4: Do it all the time with my Vimy and Western
Speaker 4: one and that's bound in tweed.
Speaker 1: That's how they got to wear badly. I just I
Speaker 1: just decided I'm going to buy another Tom of Fine
Speaker 1: and I'll open that one.
Speaker 3: The anti Leibowitz coffee table book that was I think
Speaker 3: given to me because I asked for it on like
Speaker 3: a middle probably at middle school. High school birthday was
Speaker 3: also bound in tweed. And let me tell you it
Speaker 3: was nice and I did read through it even though
Speaker 3: I didn't really understand a lot of was that's actually
Speaker 3: something that I think is interesting about, like the Vogue
Speaker 3: industrial complex and its relationship to people that are not
Speaker 3: in New York or like not regular consumers, like fashion culture,
Speaker 3: like in fashion capitals. Is that like I was fully
Speaker 3: subscribing to something that I actually did not know anything
Speaker 3: about because of yes, and the brand is an allure
Speaker 3: of that thrives and makes money off of, for lack
Speaker 3: of a better word, exclusivity. Like I don't want to
Speaker 3: make vogues like as insidious is like, because that's just
Speaker 3: too easy.
Speaker 1: But like it is.
Speaker 3: Like there is a kind of like you don't understand this,
Speaker 3: you can't have this. This is a world beyond yours,
Speaker 3: and that's why everyone wants to Yeah, you don't understand
Speaker 3: why these two belts look different. You don't understand why,
Speaker 3: you don't understand who these designers are, and yet I
Speaker 3: want to be a part of this.
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't really know who any Leewits was.
Speaker 1: Did you cannot fashionable in high school.
Speaker 5: No, not really, but I probably was voted most fashionable and.
Speaker 4: I was in the in the yearbook.
Speaker 1: No, it literally is just like that class bagage. Yeah,
Speaker 1: class Yeah. And I wore a Juicy Gutur sweatsuit. Harry, Yeah.
Speaker 3: I used to have a Juicy Gutur sweatsuit and now
Speaker 3: grew in and gave it away.
Speaker 5: I'm so sad.
Speaker 1: I mean, two thousand and six, what else was to
Speaker 1: wear that.
Speaker 3: Is the pinnacle of fashion in two thousand and six.
Speaker 3: Juicy Tour. Absolutely, But just remember.
Speaker 1: I think that Vogue, like I think that like vogue
Speaker 1: selling point was that there is this like world that
Speaker 1: like you can't excess, that you can't understand that you
Speaker 1: can't all these things, and we are your window into that,
Speaker 1: the gateway, your gay way. And so I think that
Speaker 1: like that is what they have kind of like leverage
Speaker 1: is like the whole brand. And back to a point
Speaker 1: that I don't think I actually addressed that Rose is
Speaker 1: making like or maybe it was your friends, that like
Speaker 1: Vogue has kind of like fallen out of favor or
Speaker 1: like try or whatever. And I think part of the
Speaker 1: reason that has been happening is because there are so
Speaker 1: many other windows now and so you don't need Vogue
Speaker 1: to be that window. And so like like Vogue obviously
Speaker 1: like did not do their transition to digital. Well, like
Speaker 1: the girls are catching up, they are their paywall scenario
Speaker 1: is not right. Well, they have a lot of issues,
Speaker 1: like because like back in the day, like Vogue was
Speaker 1: like the spot where like people would go but like
Speaker 1: particularly for like exclusive and all that stuff, like even
Speaker 1: pr but like now it feels like people go to
Speaker 1: Vogue to say they were in Vogue because that has
Speaker 1: a cultural cachet, but they don't go there to reach
Speaker 1: the consumer.
Speaker 4: And so you go to vote and so like no,
Speaker 4: you can go directly, you can do all these other things.
Speaker 1: And so like when people get a cover of Vogue,
Speaker 1: it's more so about like I'm on Vogue again, Like
Speaker 1: if Rihanna gets another cover of Vogue, it's about Rihanna's
Speaker 1: on Vogue. When Cardi b had her I mean, like
Speaker 1: it's rarely, I think you rarely hear people talking about
Speaker 1: the story. It's more about the cultural cachet of like
Speaker 1: simply being on or in Vogue. Like even I don't
Speaker 1: even listen to him, but I know this lyric because
Speaker 1: I wrote about someone in teen Vogue and then they
Speaker 1: use the lyric for a caption, but like Drake has
Speaker 1: that song and he says like, are you a model
Speaker 1: if you haven't been in Vogue?
Speaker 4: Yea?
Speaker 1: And you know, I mean like it's that that is
Speaker 1: the cultural cachet of it all, and I think that
Speaker 1: Vogue also unders stand that today that like it's literally
Speaker 1: like and that's what they have at this moment, is
Speaker 1: like it is the cultural cachet of just simply being
Speaker 1: like related to the brand as opposed to like people
Speaker 1: you know, actually reading.
Speaker 4: Well, it's like the whole thing that happened with that
Speaker 4: new HBO show The Idol where Rolling Stone wrote this
Speaker 4: story about how it's like this really embattled production and
Speaker 4: like a lot of shit is going wrong with it
Speaker 4: because of San Levinson in the weekend, and then the
Speaker 4: Weekend like as an Own posted a clip from the
Speaker 4: show of them basically talking about how irrelevant Rolling Stone
Speaker 4: is in the show, and it's like not really quite
Speaker 4: the own that he thinks it is, because in the
Speaker 4: scene he who in the show, he's like this cult
Speaker 4: leader and he is saying to this pop Stars publicist, like,
Speaker 4: what's the point of her being in Rolling Stone she
Speaker 4: has like ten times the Instagram followers that Rolling Stone has.
Speaker 4: But like, the point he's missing is there is still
Speaker 4: that cultural cachet to for a rock star or a
Speaker 4: pop star to being on the cover of Rolling Stone
Speaker 4: that you can't just having a lot of followers is
Speaker 4: not the same thing as validation. It is exactly a
Speaker 4: validated So it's a it's also that's what it is, right,
Speaker 4: it's a validation of those ten million followers. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: it's putting you in conversation with all these people with
Speaker 4: the legacy of the people who have been on the cover, which.
Speaker 1: Is why I was gonna let this sit, but I'm
Speaker 1: going back to it. Yeah, you mentioned Annie Leibovitz, and
Speaker 1: like all the discourses, that's why. That's what all the
Speaker 1: discourse around Annie Leibovitz like doesn't understand, is that a
Speaker 1: part of the thing with the images that Annie creates,
Speaker 1: the reason why she keeps getting booked, is it's partially
Speaker 1: because people want to be associated with having an Ani photo.
Speaker 1: They want to be in conversation with the canon of
Speaker 1: images that she has taken.
Speaker 5: Honestly, sorry, no, that's honest.
Speaker 3: On a conversation of like covers in general, which I
Speaker 3: think that the three of us like might have a
Speaker 3: lot of opinions.
Speaker 5: On people also don't understand why people are on the cover.
Speaker 3: Like most of the time, it's like there's so many
Speaker 3: different like political and financial like mechanations that go into
Speaker 3: why someone is on the cover, And a lot of
Speaker 3: times there are like six or seven people that were
Speaker 3: reached out to first.
Speaker 1: Before that cover, are booked before that cover. I've heard
Speaker 1: those conversations.
Speaker 3: We've heard those conversations, and it's like that when when
Speaker 3: covers come out and people were like, well, why this person,
Speaker 3: It's like, actually, there's seven hundred reasons why this person
Speaker 3: isn't usually.
Speaker 1: Because there were like five people who weren't available or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of the time, or also it's just
Speaker 3: because of something political or something deeply internal to Vogue
Speaker 3: or whatever magazine that where it's just like the editor
Speaker 3: had a relationship with this person or this person you
Speaker 3: know has been on doc for a really long time,
Speaker 3: or like I'm thinking about like when Rue had her
Speaker 3: cover or whatever and was like everyone was like finally,
Speaker 3: It's like most people don't know that, sorry alloydedly that
Speaker 3: Ru had been asked to do a.
Speaker 1: Cover of Vogue for like been on the cover of Vogue.
Speaker 1: Oh I thought he was on the cover. No, no, no, no, yeah,
Speaker 1: he had a spread and that was this is what
Speaker 1: I'm talking about, the Nuance, but that was the Kim
Speaker 1: Kardashian cover. The camp also was scrutinized. It was scrutinized
Speaker 1: because people were like, Roue should have been on this cover. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's why, that's why, that's why it was a camp.
Speaker 1: And the shoot looked like it could have been a
Speaker 1: cover and it was. It was. It was the camp
Speaker 1: like it was for that exhibit, and it was like
Speaker 1: the photo of Kim was like this, like she what
Speaker 1: I think she's like wet hair or something like is
Speaker 1: this camp or whatever? The fuck?
Speaker 5: It's like it's not.
Speaker 1: But so then like that story with Rue is I
Speaker 1: think it's so hilarious, which also was shot by Annie,
Speaker 1: But did you like read the story which she.
Speaker 5: Like about how she tried to get her and he was.
Speaker 1: Like, take off the crown and Ru was like no,
Speaker 1: She was like, it's a whole different thing. If I
Speaker 1: take off the crown, I'm not taking off.
Speaker 3: The But apparently Ru had been asked to be on
Speaker 3: Vogue many many times and declined. Same thing with SNL
Speaker 3: and Rue had been asked to be on SNL MA anytime.
Speaker 1: I probably I mean with Ru. Rue is also like
Speaker 1: even before social media and like people were like and
Speaker 1: more celebrities became more independent and like would say no
Speaker 1: and decline. Rue would. Rue was very specific about, like
Speaker 1: the ways in which she wanted to be portrayed and
Speaker 1: on what platforms. So for example, I could see Ru
Speaker 1: being like, I'm not doing Vogue in this track or
Speaker 1: like I want to do it like you know, this way,
Speaker 1: and like them being like, well no, we want control,
Speaker 1: and Ru being like that's great, We're just not gonna
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? Yeah, she's always from
Speaker 1: my understanding is it for a very long time she
Speaker 1: has been very specific about like what she will and
Speaker 1: will not do, and if she doesn't think it makes sense,
Speaker 1: she just won't do it. As much like Anna.
Speaker 5: Yeah, honestly, Ruin and Anna are very similar.
Speaker 3: Also, like you think they've explored each other's body. Honestly,
Speaker 3: I am fascinating. I would be fascinated to hear the
Speaker 3: conversations that have probably had that have been had between
Speaker 3: them at least at some point in time. But like, yeah, no,
Speaker 3: it's they're like, if us, if it's about control with Rue,
Speaker 3: about not wanting to do it, if it's not about that,
Speaker 3: it's it's like Ru's like, oh, I'm sorry, Vogue, I'm
Speaker 3: very busy being the host of a game show, a
Speaker 3: live Tic tac toe game show, and that is actually
Speaker 3: more worth my time higher episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah we should.
Speaker 3: At some point we will wait, have you ever met
Speaker 3: have you ever met Anna?
Speaker 1: Yes? I interviewed.
Speaker 3: Okay, wait, what can you so without disclosing you know,
Speaker 3: is h without disclosing any details.
Speaker 1: You don't want to?
Speaker 5: What was the experience?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: What did you wear?
Speaker 3: First of all, I don't remember, no, no, no no,
Speaker 3: I literally do not remember.
Speaker 1: No no, no, no, I don't. I don't. I really don't.
Speaker 1: But I think I wore my like blazer, and then
Speaker 1: I know I wore a wide trouser. Did I wear
Speaker 1: the black version of this? I think I wore like
Speaker 1: I'm wearing jack Miss trousers now, and I probably wore
Speaker 1: like the black version of these. They're like these wide
Speaker 1: leg trouser. I'm pretty sure I wore that and like
Speaker 1: a blazer, but I mean it was fine. The thing
Speaker 1: is that like I've always been told she's extremely straightforward,
Speaker 1: straight to the point, and she is. I walk in.
Speaker 1: I think she's with her seven assistants, No, just one.
Speaker 1: Like they reach out to me like and we're like, hi,
Speaker 1: we're like looking for someone for this role. We were.
Speaker 1: Anna was told that like you would be good for it,
Speaker 1: she would like to meet with you. And I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: and you've been summoned. No, that's how I feel.
Speaker 3: It feels like a summoning. It's meant to feel like
Speaker 3: a summoning. They do that on purpose.
Speaker 1: And I emailed because they understand it and yeah, and
Speaker 1: so like I I think I emailed something. I think
Speaker 1: I guess it's okay or something. And they were like
Speaker 1: this day this time.
Speaker 5: I was like yes, yes, yes, doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: So then you're like canceling, like you like nephews like
Speaker 3: bar Mits or whatever.
Speaker 1: You're like, I'm sorry my birthday. So I go into
Speaker 1: the meeting. She she wasn't in there, like someone that
Speaker 1: came brought me and sat me down, this like very
Speaker 1: nondescript from not her office. And she comes in. I
Speaker 1: shook her hen she has her sunglasses on, she has
Speaker 1: her resume.
Speaker 4: My resume she has.
Speaker 1: Printed out scary and I had brought it just in
Speaker 1: case because I was like, she's an older no offense,
Speaker 1: she's an older lay fast, no fash. Yeah, I just
Speaker 1: just like she probably would like to see. And I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm not gonna assume that she looked at
Speaker 1: it already. And so she sits down and the first
Speaker 1: question she asks me is literally I'm not gonna say
Speaker 1: the exactly, but she's like, oh, I see that this
Speaker 1: is not on your resume. Like the background check.
Speaker 3: That I did on you doesn't quite light her up
Speaker 3: with the things that are on this is that kind
Speaker 3: of No.
Speaker 1: She was basically saying, like, this skill that is needed
Speaker 1: for this job resented on your resume. She was like,
Speaker 1: but I do have your sniffiest profile there, and so
Speaker 1: like like that was the first It wasn't like was
Speaker 1: the meeting fifteen minutes? No, no, no, we I think
Speaker 1: we were in there for like forty. They did tell
Speaker 1: me that it was going to be like everybody was like, oh,
Speaker 1: it'll be very abbreviated, but it was.
Speaker 3: But Anna decides how long it is, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: And you go in assuming that it's going to be
Speaker 3: fifteen minutes. Yeah, she believes that most meeting should be
Speaker 3: fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1: And I assume that it was gonna be a fifteen
Speaker 1: to twenty minute meeting. We got in there, it was
Speaker 1: I think it was like thirty or forty, which was
Speaker 1: like I was like, oh, maybe I did like fine,
Speaker 1: And then I thought that I completely bombed it because
Speaker 1: she like at the end she was like, oh, can
Speaker 1: you do this thing for me? And I thought she
Speaker 1: just like did that out of habit and like whatever.
Speaker 1: But then I had to talk to like the head
Speaker 1: of people or hr there and they were like, no,
Speaker 1: if Anna didn't like you, she would have asked you
Speaker 1: to do nothing. Yeah, she would have said, they would
Speaker 1: have gotten back to you.
Speaker 3: So you're asked for a material, Yeah, she was. He
Speaker 3: was like, Sarah asked you to do a thing for her.
Speaker 3: Then like you're still thing. She was like, you're still
Speaker 3: very much in She's like she's not going to waste
Speaker 3: her time looking at a thing.
Speaker 1: You did you were you nervous?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 1: I was extremely nervous. So what did you what was
Speaker 1: like your body?
Speaker 3: Well, how did do you remember anything about like how
Speaker 3: you felt or like when you walked out and you're
Speaker 3: like I bombed that, Like what else from the experience
Speaker 3: can you glean from her mannerisms or like.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean she just wears the same thing.
Speaker 1: She's like this little dress, like.
Speaker 4: She wears the same like kind of Flora's like.
Speaker 1: Yeah most of the yeah. And so she looked great,
Speaker 1: she looked she looked very much like the That's the
Speaker 1: thing is like it's not like she gets in this
Speaker 1: caricature when she like goes she every day with the
Speaker 1: shades and so like thinking about that, I was dagging
Speaker 1: about was I was like, she's really in this interview
Speaker 1: with these shades. I was gagging.
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about that clip of her when that that
Speaker 3: woman asked her for her.
Speaker 1: I d outside of the car or whatever she was.
Speaker 3: She was like like you no wait, Michel came to
Speaker 3: the studio with no idea, which like everybody, I you
Speaker 3: were any character girl, you were you were doing.
Speaker 1: And I'm saying, I never go anywhere with an I
Speaker 1: D like you are winter unless I'm going to a club.
Speaker 1: I'm like, why do I I need papers?
Speaker 3: The virgin and the virgins can't see you right now,
Speaker 3: but you are wearing like wrap around chanelle shades and.
Speaker 4: You know, a bob like this is a way to
Speaker 4: sort of like wrap up, like, what is your your
Speaker 4: Anna Wintour look like I was when you solidify the
Speaker 4: fran look that you want to be burned into people's memories?
Speaker 4: What is it?
Speaker 1: Did I ever have a uniform?
Speaker 3: Yes, you all know, like when we work together, I
Speaker 3: you know, wore all black. It was a very easy
Speaker 3: way to make Zara look expensive. It was a very
Speaker 3: easy way to you know, not let people see my outfit,
Speaker 3: not to judge me based on what I was wearing.
Speaker 3: And you're also colorblind, yes, and I'm colorblind. So it's
Speaker 3: just like, you know, a layer of things that I
Speaker 3: don't have to worry about in the more. And like
Speaker 3: also like with editors, like our day starts at like
Speaker 3: six or seven, and so it's just like I don't,
Speaker 3: like my brain didn't have the capacity to like put
Speaker 3: an outfit together. Since then, I am now have ENUF
Speaker 3: for raid into color, And I don't know what my
Speaker 3: uniform is. I am like a kind of big, big pants,
Speaker 3: tiny top kind of girl, which is like basic, basic
Speaker 3: and tiktoki.
Speaker 1: But I don't know if I necessarily.
Speaker 3: Have a uniform now, But I would like to you
Speaker 3: have a uniform, I tell.
Speaker 1: I kind of do, and I kind of don't. I
Speaker 1: mean I think that if I was like a like
Speaker 1: I mean, I yeah, I love a very I like
Speaker 1: a wide leg trouser. I like a smaller top, and
Speaker 1: then I like a huge coat over it all because
Speaker 1: like I kind of love the idea and like I
Speaker 1: love like something that's a little bit a line when
Speaker 1: like you have the coat on, because I kind of
Speaker 1: love the idea of being like completely ensconced in this
Speaker 1: thing and like people can't really like tell what's going
Speaker 1: on with the figure. And then my the reveal of
Speaker 1: like no, this is bigger, you just see this waste.
Speaker 1: And then also like everything below the waist is like
Speaker 1: quite imorphously because it's this huge trouser, but like it's
Speaker 1: like this small torso like waste. And then like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is a great silhouette, which is hilarious because it's
Speaker 1: just like the silhouette of like having a long skirt
Speaker 1: like a woman. But that's what I've always like really
Speaker 1: been obsessed with.
Speaker 3: But you, I mean, you look great in an oversized
Speaker 3: fit and also like wearing all black witch you frequently
Speaker 3: do like forces you to just think about silhouettes, Yeah,
Speaker 3: which I think is like texture. I think that that's
Speaker 3: on the like fashion and styling front. The thing that
Speaker 3: like most people don't understand when they're like putting an
Speaker 3: outfit together or styling themselves.
Speaker 5: It's like it's like the silhouette matters a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, particularly yeah, if you take especially if you take
Speaker 1: color out of this situation, it doesn't matter a lot.
Speaker 1: And like even this, like I love like little things
Speaker 1: that are like because if you generally were all black,
Speaker 1: you get a few like colored pieces in it. Like
Speaker 1: obviously they do a lot of work. So like today
Speaker 1: I have one like black shoes like this black polo,
Speaker 1: this black huge overcoat from Acne, and these like green
Speaker 1: jacquesess like wide leg trousers, and the effect when I'm
Speaker 1: walking down the street and i have my coat on
Speaker 1: because the code so long, it's like you really don't
Speaker 1: see the whole trouser. You see like five inches of
Speaker 1: the trouser. But it's like a little skirts little people.
Speaker 1: But then it's also like when I'm walking, like if
Speaker 1: the co opens, you see these flashes of green of
Speaker 1: and like I think about that, I'm like I'm like
Speaker 1: that's so shiite, Like I'm literally walking down thinking about
Speaker 1: the effect that it's having up like, oh yeah, you're
Speaker 1: having your ant.
Speaker 4: Q slide into our dm so and let us know
Speaker 4: what you think about Anna Wintour, who's your fashion early
Speaker 4: of choice? What was your favorite mett Gala look. Next
Speaker 4: week we will be back with an episode dedicated to
Speaker 4: Spring Awakening, featuring MS Tommy Dorfman. In the meantime, you
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Speaker 4: Like a Virgin is an iHeartRadio production. Our producer is
Speaker 4: Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman and Niki Detur.
Speaker 4: Until next week, shall for now virgin me