WEBVTT - Tour de Cruelty 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.319 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to boka F Daily with 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:18.960 Meet your Girl Daniel Moody, recording from the home Bunker. Folks, 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:24.119 I'm really excited to bring to woke f Daily for 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:29.200 the very first time Corey Nathan. Corey Nathan is the 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:35.600 host of Talking Politics and Religion podcast and we first 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:38.640 got into a conversation on my other podcasts with my 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:43.879 friend wajahat Ali Democracy Ish And you know, often I 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:47.680 don't talk about religion. I don't talk about the mix 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:51.000 of religion and politics because I don't come from a 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:55.600 religious background. But I do understand how politics and our 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.320 policy and frankly the founding of this nation is wrapped 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.320 up in religiosity. I mean, for Fox's sake, we have 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:05.520 on our coins in God, we trust God, bless America. 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:10.200 We do all of these things reflexively and for people 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:15.679 who are like myself, who deem themselves more spiritual agnostic, 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:20.520 not subscribing to any organized religion. Getting into conversations with 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:24.840 folks who do subscribe to religion if it is not 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:30.839 a thoughtful, open minded conversation can end up in huge 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:35.000 squabbles and just everyone shutting down. That is not the 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:39.640 case with Corey Nathan and I have enjoyed joining his 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:43.559 podcast him joining now Woke f for the first time, 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:46.720 we get into an in depth conversation with regard to 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:51.040 how we engage, you know, rather than shut down with people, 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:55.040 we open up the conversation talking about the cruelty that 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:59.560 is being exhibited by Republicans who claim right Christian faith 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:04.240 and yet their actions say otherwise and what that means. 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:06.880 And so I really hope, folks, that you enjoy this 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:09.680 conversation with Corey Nathan. I hope that you will check 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:13.640 out his podcasts, Talk in Politics and Religion pod. You 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:17.120 can follow him at Corey Nathan on all social media 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:20.880 platforms as well as his podcast. So I do hope 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:23.079 that you enjoy this conversation. Do let me know in 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:27.040 the comment sections below how it lands with you. I 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:32.600 always appreciate your feedback. It's no secret that the news 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:36.399 is horsepill hard to swallow. Thankfully, there's The Bituation Room 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:41.000 podcast hosted by comedian and commentator Francesca free Erntini for 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:43.600 a lighter take on the heavy stuff. Each week, the 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:47.519 Bituation Room brings you progressive comedians, experts, and activists to 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:49.560 break down the issues in a way that won't just 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:52.720 leave you crying under a weighted blanket. Get the Bituation 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:56.720 Room on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and streaming on YouTube 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:04.440 and Twitch. Folks, I am very happy to welcome to 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:09.000 woke F Daily Corey Nathan, who is the host of 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:15.080 the podcast Talking Politics and Religion, who just has We've 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:19.880 had incredible conversations Corey on democracy Ish my other podcasts 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:22.840 on your own podcast, and I wanted to bring this 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:26.720 conversation to the woke a F audience. I love the 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.440 way that you are able to weave in religion politics 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:33.720 and just kind of give us a fifty thousand foot 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:37.520 view and then zero in on the contradictions, the many, 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:41.480 many contradictions that we see in our body politic today, 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:45.800 particularly at the hands of Republicans. The topic that I 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:49.680 kind of want to start off with today is one 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:54.880 that has really Corey been grading on me for the 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:59.840 last week or so since it's happened, which is Rondes 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:07.760 Santis and Greg Abbott in Texas playing political games with 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:14.520 human beings, most recently with Ronda Santis lying to a 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:20.280 group of migrants and then from Venezuela who were not 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:26.440 even in his state, putting them on chartered planes and 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:29.520 sending them to Martha's vineyard as a way to quote 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:36.120 unquote own the Libs. These are people, Corey, who profess 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:40.799 to be somehow children of God. I don't know what God, 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:45.080 but that's what they profess to be, These christo christo 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:49.040 fascist right, which is what I will refer to them as, 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:51.159 because I don't see what else you would refer to 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:57.320 their behavior as. When you see these images and these 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:01.600 examples of cruelty being normalized in our media and in 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:06.800 our politics. Cory, what comes up for you? Well, you 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:11.360 used a word at the beginning of your thoughts that 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:15.240 I think is key, and that word is human. I 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:19.720 think that this the actions that are taken on the 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:22.880 part of the Santis, in particular because i've I've watched 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:26.960 his stand up comedy routines. I don't know what else 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:29.159 you could call it. There he's like going on tour now, 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:34.560 he's going to other states, and he's brazenly proclaiming and 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:39.920 showing off his cruelty and and is celebrating it. And 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:43.120 I think the only way that you get there is 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:50.839 by numbing your sense of someone else's humanity, losing or 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:55.000 never having seen or never having acknowledged that this is 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:58.680 another human being. You know. I got to talk to 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:04.840 Wag and he had a really insightful way of describing 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:09.200 this whole Christian thing. This the way that someone liked 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:14.239 De Santis would use the name of God or Jesus 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:19.720 or his label of Christianity, and wash put it in 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:22.920 such way. He said, Jesus is his mascot. Jesus isn't 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:27.960 his lord? Wow, Jesus is his mascot, you know. And 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:32.719 and it's something very different. I mean, I you mentioned 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:34.480 that we were going to be talking about this, and 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:39.560 I've gotten into really heated conversations because to me, it's 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:42.080 very clear whether we're looking at Hebrew by and I 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:46.240 know not all of your audience are or of the 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:49.840 Judeo Christian background, but I do bring it up, not 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:52.960 to evangelize or anything like that, but because this is 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:57.120 this is supposed to be the word and the authority 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:01.719 that guides our morality, our ethic, you know. So I've 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.480 gotten too heated debates about Hey, listen, I know, I 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:09.279 know y'all prefer your socio political leaning is you know, 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:13.160 closed border, and you know they're only bringing the rapists 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:16.920 and the you know and seeing them seeing other humans 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.720 in another light, you know. But listen, this is the 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:22.720 word of God. When a foreigner resides among you in 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:25.960 your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.240 you must be treated as your native born, love them 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:32.800 as yourself. For you or foreigners, this is still true 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:35.120 even if you do book, don't buy the Bible. We 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:37.720 could take this statement and say, this is a virtue 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:41.520 to see our neighbors a certain way, to see our 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:45.960 neighbors as ourselves. Because I know you know your your 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:50.920 parents are originally from Jamaica, Jamaica, right, so I'm sure 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:53.640 you can identify. I identify with it. We talked about 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:57.600 my grandmother arriving here at Ellis Island on March third, 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:01.760 nineteen twenty one. I was a foreigner. This is my story, 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:05.840 you know. And if Desantists can't see that, if Desantists 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:08.360 doesn't know his own family's history, we're happy to look 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:09.840 it up for him, just like we looked it up 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:14.200 for Donald fucking Trump or drump I should say, you know, 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.840 we're happy to look it up for you. You know 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:21.040 what it is, It's that what I've come to understand 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:24.200 is that there is no shaming the devil, right, there 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:26.800 is there is no there is no shaming of the devil. 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:30.520 And I say that because I believe that these people 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:35.400 are at have come to a place where they are 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:39.000 celebrating they're evil, Like you said, Ron de Santist is 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:43.079 on a tour, a toward the evil, right, a toward 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:46.720 the cruelty. But this isn't how the media is depicting this. 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:50.400 They are depicting what is happening and what continues to 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:56.120 happen with these migrants as political posturing, as opposed to 0:08:56.240 --> 0:09:02.560 dehumanization and cruelty, as opposed to where is amnesty international? Right? 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:06.960 Where is the UN in terms of what laws against 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:10.600 humanity this country is breaking? These governors are breaking. And 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:15.240 so my question for you is, you know, one of 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:21.640 the major tenants of authoritarianism and fascism is to normalize violence, 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:26.080 is to normalize political violence and to normalize cruelty and 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:30.520 brutality in such a way that people begin to look 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:34.120 the other way. It's similarly that we've all when we 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:38.240 see headlines with regard to mass shootings, it's really only 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:41.120 the amount of people being gunned down at one time 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:44.760 that moves us. If it's for or less people we're like, oh, 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:47.040 isn't that sad? And we turn the page or we 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.880 turn the channel and we move about our day because 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:55.280 there's just been so many shootings. It's hard to shed 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:57.920 tears for all of them because you'd be crying all 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:02.920 day every day. So, but my question, Corey is when 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:09.000 we start to become desensitized to this level of cruelty, 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:14.040 what do you see as the long term impact on 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:17.840 our ability to have empathy and compassion and what that 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:22.680 does to our founding principles, whether or not we've ever 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:26.440 truly met them. At least each generation in some form 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:31.360 or fashion, has strived towards that. Yeah, I want to 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.720 hold out hope. I want to. I think one of 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:39.600 the ways that I've been able to continue in my 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:45.120 efforts is to hold out hope for individuals, to hold 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:49.800 out hope for other human beings, even for people who 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:54.079 are in that room where De Santis is giving his performances. 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:58.560 That there are other human beings that I think are 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:03.320 not beyond our reach. You know, I think that there 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:07.400 are folks. I've been thinking a lot about this Bible 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:09.439 study I went to. It was a Sunday school class 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:11.360 that we were going to for like ten fifteen years. 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:13.719 When I first became a Christian, first having kids was 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:17.959 called young marriages. And listen, I'm realistic. I think if 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:20.000 there were twenty twenty five of us in that room, 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:22.760 they're going to that class. I'm still friends with a 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:26.440 lot of them. I'm not gonna fool myself into thinking 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:30.200 that that entire room is persuadable. But you know what, 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:32.760 I do think that there's one or two or three 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:35.439 that are you know, and what does that look like? 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:38.760 So so what might be the question, But no, there 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:41.320 is a so what Because just as an example, and 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:43.920 I'm kind of taking a left turn here, I live 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:47.439 in a district, a US Congress House district, California, twenty 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:49.880 seven that was decided by three hundred and thirty three 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:53.880 votes out of over three hundred and forty thousand people 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:57.040 who cast a vote, and Christy Smith lost that one, 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.600 but she's running again. So why do I think of 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:01.600 my son day school class and how is that connected? 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:05.480 Because if I can persuade one person from my old 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:09.079 Sunday school class, that means Christy wins this time. And 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:13.560 that's exactly a suburban college educated women in particular, that 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:17.320 is exactly the content constituency that's that's in a swing. 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:21.840 So if I can convince you know, my friend Margaret, like, hey, 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:23.839 you know, I think we got it wrong on this 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:27.200 immigrant thing. I think we you know, I know that 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:29.520 we're rooting. We're always trained to root for the Red, 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.320 root for the Republicans. We're always training to vote. Don't think, 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:35.960 just vote and vote the way you know our people. 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:38.240 You know, no, no, no no, no, it's time to think. 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.439 It's time to think why. Because loving the Lord your 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:44.640 God involves loving the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:47.920 mind and strength. So let's think. So I'm talking to 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.920 Margaret right now, and I'm saying we got this. You know, 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:54.200 Trump separated children from their parents, and we're still having 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.880 to clean up the mess. You know. Uh, De Santis 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.600 and Abbott are are making it about own the lives. 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.680 So to them, it's not about any philosophy, it's not 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:07.000 about any theological premises that they're basing it on. It's 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.920 based on this worldview that everything is a contest that 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:12.960 they have to win. They've identified the enemy, and the 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:16.280 enemy is anybody outside of a particular cult, that cult 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:18.880 being anyone who's going to bow down to the golden 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:22.520 statue of Nebuchadnezzar, a modern day Nemicadnezzar. I eat Trump, 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.320 you know, or or that Trump is m if you will, 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:28.120 even if you want to take Trump out of the equation, 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:30.960 this Trump is M because that's what that's what DeSantis 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:32.360 is trying to do. He's trying to do his bad 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.679 imitation of Trump. But maybe he's a little bit more 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:39.040 polite about it. Bullshit, he's not polite. He's sending he's 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.839 he's forgetting about the humanity of human beings, and and 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:45.000 he's he's tricking them into going thousands of miles away 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:49.679 after they've already been on a thousand mile journey. You know. 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:54.560 So I think that it's one it's one area where 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.800 we might defer because, like I said, I want to 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:01.040 hold out hope, even for maybe not de Santis himself, 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:04.280 but for people in that room, because I think one 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:07.200 or two or three are persuadable not to get on, 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.959 you know, not not to start carry protest signs and 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:15.280 you know, be full on board with um with you know, 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:19.280 democratic activists, and you know, I don't think that's that's 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:20.840 the case. But I think if we can if we 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:25.640 can persuade even one degree, one percent, you know, one 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.800 person out of that room, just to just to cast 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:32.560 one vote for a person who believes in our democratic institutions, 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.280 who understands that this time. I know you've always voted 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.520 a Republican and you think that's the Christian thing to do. 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.800 I'm a Christian, I'm a conservative, and I'm voting proudly 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:44.600 for a Democrat because no matter how much I disagree 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:49.239 with Christy on certain fiscal issues, uh, we we agree 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:54.280 that democracy itself is at stake. So yeah, sorry to 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:56.960 go on so long, but again I think I would 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:59.000 just I just want to hold out hope for some 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:01.760 of those something, not just for the folks in that room, 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:04.200 but that that circle gets wider, because there are some 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:07.760 folks who are just sort of um, they don't want 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:09.160 to talk about it, they don't they don't want to 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:10.800 think about it, and they're just kind of getting carried 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.480 away with this wave. But but you know, loving the 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:15.000 Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:18.760 and strength requires us to really think through this stuff, 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:23.120 to really think through are we worshiping a god? Or 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:26.080 are we faithful to even taking God in Christianity had 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:28.360 the question out of the equation for a second. But 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.880 are we faithful to what we know to be true 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:34.480 and right to what we know to be good virtues? 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:37.080 Are we being faithful to that? Or are we sending 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.480 all that aside because we happen to be on a 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:42.360 team that wears these red hats. And part of being 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.520 wearing red hats means that it's okay to be cruel. 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:52.120 It's it's it's winning to be cruel, you know. So, yeah, yeah, no, 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:54.720 but that you know that. But that's the thing, is 0:15:54.760 --> 0:16:00.400 that the reason why I love our conversations is because 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:07.560 there has to be some other way to persuade people 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:13.880 to tap in to their shared humanity. There has to 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:20.000 be a way to open up people's eyes to the 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:23.760 fact that the zero sum game means that they lose 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:28.800 as well, right, that there is no way to put 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:32.320 on that red hat and to for instance, deny the 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.880 existence of climate change as you're standing in front of 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:40.160 trumbling infrastructure, your home and community being hit once again 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:44.440 by raging floods and fires, and to think that like 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.240 you're going to continue to vote against your best interests, 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:51.080 you don't have, you don't have to carry a protest 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:56.800 sign right to understand that taking care of the land, 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:00.600 the water, the environment, and the air should be a 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:04.239 principle of the very religion that you are touting as 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:07.760 a reason you are against so many other people, so 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:11.520 many other issues. And so I'm wondering, Corey, like, have 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:19.040 we just has the tribalism just consume so many minds 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.640 that we have, because this has always been a part 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:29.119 to me of republicanism, which is the demonization of education, 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.200 the demonization of what it means to have an open mind, 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:39.080 right to ask questions, to critically think. And so, you know, 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:41.920 is there a way do you see that there is 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:47.480 a way that we break through the tribalism, this red 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:52.760 web that has fallen across this country that we call 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:55.560 Trumpism now that we are all trapped in, whether or 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:57.920 not we are subscribing to it or not, we're all 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:02.400 trapped inside of this red web. Is there a way 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:06.040 to break out by appealing to people's humanity when they 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:13.000 are being indoctrinated to dehumanize and applaud the humiliation and 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:19.160 the cruelty being expressed onto other people. Yeah, yeah, and listen, 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:22.040 there is a place to fight. There's a place for 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:27.240 I prefer non violent resistance, but resistance nonetheless, and resistance 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:31.199 as a means of fighting a good fight, you know, 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:36.359 and getting in good trouble as as the late Representative 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:39.880 Lewis would say, you know, but I think so there's 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:41.879 a place for fighting, But I also think there's a 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:44.640 place for bridge building. Now what does that look like? 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:48.280 It doesn't It doesn't look like getting into a thread 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:52.840 on Twitter with somebody, does that? You know? I'll tell you, 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:55.520 you know, I'm going out for beers tomorrow night with 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.720 this guy. I've been friendly with him because I've played 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.840 poker with him a bunch and we stayed in touch. 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:05.600 I didn't realize how magnified he is until he invited 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:07.720 me to a game. And first thing I see in 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:11.199 his garage is this huge locker, a gunrack, you know, 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:14.320 like a huge gun locker. Um. I think I'd like 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:16.680 to think that he's a responsible gun owner. But he's 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:18.959 one of these guys from the mindset of we might 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:21.600 have talked about this last time, but of the come 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:25.160 and take them kind of mindset. Yep, yep, yep. You know. So, 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.560 I'm not going to convince my buddy Darren to become 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:31.920 you know, a social justice warrior. But I do think 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:34.919 that if we if we go out for beers and 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:38.760 there'll be some sort of connection that all of a sudden, 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.960 I'm not just some you know, some guy that he's 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.919 getting in a spat with and contesting with on Twitter 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:47.879 or Facebook or whatever. I'm a human being, you know, 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:51.239 and and but also he's a human being to me, 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:53.879 you know, And I can understand if I if I 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:58.960 seek to understand what what's behind the big gun rack, 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:03.159 what's behind his feeling about that, I might be able 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:08.480 to we might be able to get underneath to something 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:11.560 that does we do hold in common? For example, his 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:14.840 concern for his family, His concern for his family and 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.439 wanted to keep his family safe, and we share that, 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:22.560 you know, how how we what's derived from that, and 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:26.280 how we act and decisions that we make are obviously 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.760 very different, but there's an underlying value that we share. 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:33.320 So I think maybe making that connection and understanding that connection, 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:36.960 I'm gonna I'm not gonna turn him around one hundred 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:39.639 and eighty degrees, but I think there's one or two things, 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:41.280 one or two ingredients that I can throw in the 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:43.480 mix where I'll give you an example we were have 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:47.520 an extended conversation about January sixth, and he referred to 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:50.840 guys who storm the capitol as ass hats. I'm like, okay, good, 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:53.119 we're making some progress. Yeah, at the very least they 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:57.440 were ass hats. But then he quickly diverted the conversation to, yeah, 0:20:57.440 --> 0:20:59.680 but where was your outrage when you know people were 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:02.680 storm Seattle in Portland and you know all those people. 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:06.520 I'm like, wait, wait, wait, these two things are not related. 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:09.199 So if we're going to address one, we'll address it. 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:11.399 But these two things are not related. But if you 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:13.560 want to talk about it, let's talk about the fact 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:15.400 that we're a year and a half, almost two years 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:18.680 past January sixth, there hasn't even been a thousand arrests yet. 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.760 And by the way, there's been so much process. So 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:23.800 some people are just you know, got a got a 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:28.600 minimal fine. But some people who are beating, trying to 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:31.880 beat cops to death and stab them to death, Yes, 0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:34.440 they're in jail deservedly so. But you know, you know what, 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:36.080 we're a year and a half, two years out and 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:40.359 still not even a thousand arrests. Fourteen thousand arrests within 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:43.960 two weeks after George Floyd's Floyd's murder, So we talked 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:47.359 about that, you know, and I think, I think again, 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:49.879 he wasn't thoroughly convinced. He didn't want to join the 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:53.480 next protest march, you know, but I think he understood 0:21:53.880 --> 0:22:00.560 the depravity frankly, and trying to connect these two things, 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:03.439 the seditiousness. What's the word I'm looking for. It's like toxic, 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:06.320 It's like poison, and he bought the poison. He took 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:09.320 that bill, you know. So I can't convince him of everything, 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:11.840 but I can help him. I can understand him a 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:16.000 little bit better and and honor the values, honor him 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:18.359 as a human being, even if we've arrived at very 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:21.480 different conclusions, you know. And that gives me. It's like 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:23.840 the ticket that I have to buy in order to 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:26.560 persuade him just a little bit on one thing, you know, 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:28.840 and our relationship I think is going to bear fruit. 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:31.960 Not that I need him to agree with me on everything, 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:34.600 but just if nothing else, that he can see the 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:38.240 humanity in that what we were originally talking about, in 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:43.199 the human beings that that fled, violence that fled. You know. 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:45.400 It's not like they wanted to leave their homes. It's 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:47.360 not like they wanted to leave their business. But that's 0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:52.320 the That's the thing that I think is consistently lost, 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:59.360 right is, and particularly around our broken and purposefully broken 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:05.280 immigration system, where we are assuming that people have this 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:10.600 deep desire to flee everything that they have known, everyone 0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:15.200 that they have loved, with a frigging knapsack on their back, 0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:19.399 that being it, and going off into a land of 0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:23.439 people that you know half of at least hate you, 0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:27.920 right have been trained to literally hate you. You've seen 0:23:28.000 --> 0:23:32.200 images of people at the border, and yet you are 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:36.040 compelled by virtue of just the desire to have safety 0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:40.000 to do just that, to make that journey, and so 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:45.360 like is there and the thing to me again, go 0:23:45.480 --> 0:23:48.040 back last I don't even know, Yeah, I guess it 0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:52.520 was last year when we had fourteen thousand Haitians at 0:23:52.520 --> 0:23:56.880 the border that were being beaten on horseback by border patrol. 0:23:57.320 --> 0:24:00.479 The images were all over the place. Biden's cooped up 0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:03.800 fourteen thousand Haitians and sent them back to Haiti, to 0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:11.080 political violence, to unrelenting COVID, all of these things. Literally 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:14.840 in the same month, welcomed in one hundred thousand Ukrainians. 0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:19.720 No one bats an eyelash. Oh my god, we had 0:24:19.800 --> 0:24:24.639 changed our social media avatars to Ukrainian flags and do 0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:30.080 all these things. So my question, Corey is how how 0:24:30.080 --> 0:24:35.399 do you go about having conversations about the clear, the 0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:40.439 clear distinctions between who we see as human, who we 0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:43.960 can align ourselves with, and be like, oh my god, 0:24:44.119 --> 0:24:47.800 look at that mother with that abandoned stroller. Look at 0:24:47.840 --> 0:24:52.880 those people, you know with just their backpacks. There's the same. 0:24:53.160 --> 0:24:57.439 Their skin color is different, their language is different, the 0:24:57.560 --> 0:25:03.119 desire for safety and freedom is not. So how do 0:25:03.200 --> 0:25:08.080 we can how do we get to that? There? There? Yeah, 0:25:08.400 --> 0:25:10.920 that's a quadra to say the least. You know, I 0:25:11.160 --> 0:25:15.080 think when we see folks that look different than us, 0:25:15.119 --> 0:25:19.719 that maybe have a different religion than us, you know, 0:25:20.280 --> 0:25:22.960 I see the fault in myself, you know, I see. 0:25:23.920 --> 0:25:26.640 I was I was watching this old Bugs Bunny cartoon 0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:31.640 and the portrayal of an Asian character. Oh, I see 0:25:31.640 --> 0:25:34.680 it now, I'm like, oh, oh my god, Like these 0:25:34.680 --> 0:25:37.080