WEBVTT - Oculus Rift: The Story So Far 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:07.560 Get in touch with technology with tech stuff from stuff 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:14.720 dot com. Hey, they're and welcome to text stuff. I'm 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:17.799 Jonathan Strickland and I'm Lauren And today we wanted to 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:21.439 talk about something that, uh technology that really made a 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:25.000 big splash in late two thousand twelves and really in 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:27.880 two thousand thirteen, something that got a lot of people excited. 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:31.520 I guess you could say it kicks started the virtual 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:35.320 reality craze again in the US. Oh my goodness, the 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:39.760 Oculus Rift. So yes, and as of June they announced 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:42.839 that they had just raised sixteen million in private funding 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:47.520 steen million dollars, which isn't shabby for a company run 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.639 by a twenty year old guy. Okay, let's not focus 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:53.840 on how young this guy is. Now, that's amazing, that's 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:56.760 that's This is a tinkerer, who is who is of 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:02.800 the people and uh eighteen years younger than I am. Oi. Yeah, no, 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:04.960 he really is. Though. He's one of those guys who 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:09.080 worked out of his garage messing with stuff that interested 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:11.840 him and was able to leverage that into something that 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:15.440 is really taking at least one section of the gaming 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:18.000 world by storm. So we were will be talking a 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:20.640 lot about video games but in this case, it's a 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:23.200 it's a peripheral for video games. So all of you 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:26.360 people out there who hate video game topics, this is 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:30.240 still cool. It's virtual reality. Now, before we get into 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:33.679 a discussion about Oculus Rift and particularly, I wanted to 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:38.279 mention just sort of a history of virtual reality. Uh, 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:42.080 kind of Jonathan's history of virtual reality. So this isn't 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:44.080 in our notes or anything. This is from my own 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:47.120 personal experimpletely unofficial. He is making it up as he 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:51.360 goes along. Dinosaurs will be involved. Okay, well actually yes, 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:54.840 well technically it's not a dinosaur. Pterodactyl is not a dinosaur, 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:58.920 but it's close. Um, so virtual reality. For those of 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:02.160 you who were alive in the nineties and remember this 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:05.160 kind of stuff that it started to really kind of 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:08.480 get buzz in the early to mid nineties. This was 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:12.360 one of those terms that was promising to turn computing 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:14.600 on its head. It was changing the way we thought 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:17.360 about computers. It was gonna be immersive. You were going 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:19.920 to be surrounded by the computer data. You would be 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:22.600 part of this experience. It would no longer be this 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:26.639 separation that was created by a screen and a keyboard 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:29.200 and a mouse and this was partially due to science fiction. 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:32.600 It was largely due to science fiction. Yeah, because because 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:36.080 the actual technology at the time was not not up 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:38.960 to part none note up to the expectations that were 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:43.280 generated as a result of both science fiction. Also, I mean, 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:46.640 obviously Hollywood had a big deal with how this was 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:51.200 portrayed and and it was never really realistic in the 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:53.840 Hollywood version. Also, if you watch any of those movies 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:56.400 that had a lot of virtual reality elements to them, 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.720 they look awful by today's standards when you talk about 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.480 the ethics quality, Well, there were showcases of that early 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:06.640 computer generated right, but it was still even though they 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.760 look horrible by today's standards, they still looked amazing compared 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:11.920 to what was what we were capable of doing with 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:15.440 virtual reality at that time. Also, it was really expensive 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:18.640 because this was all a technology that had to be 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:22.080 built from the ground up, specifically for the purpose of 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:27.400 virtual reality. Now here's a hard, cold fact about technology. 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:30.799 If you're designing something that is brand new, as in 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:34.320 no one has built this kind of stuff before, there's 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:37.000 a huge amount of money that goes into that to 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:42.480 to build development enormous amount of money, and virtual reality 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:44.760 did not you know, it generated a lot of buzz 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:46.760 which was good in the early days, but then the 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:50.520 reaction to what was actually possible was such that a 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:52.440 lot of that interest and a lot of the support 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:56.320 drained away very very quickly. So you're left with these 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:59.000 people who were doing valuable work in the field of 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:03.080 virtual reality, but because there was this bubble that burst 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:06.280 early on in the development of the technology itself and 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:09.400 the industry, they were left with very little to work 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:13.040 with once that bubble went away. So also, I feel 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:14.800 like at the time, people we were focused on the 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.479 entertainment issues of it and weren't really thinking forward to 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:24.240 um um, to the possible medical purposing and and therapy purposing. 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:28.920 At least anyone outside the actual industry was not seeing 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:30.960 those that. You know, there were people who are working 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:34.120 in the industry who's actually saw some really cool applications, 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:36.760 some of which we have actually seen happen over the 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.920 course of the several years that have in between when 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:44.719 virtual reality was a buzzword and today. But people who 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:47.480 were looking at it from the outside the general consumer, 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:51.760 they were looking at it as video games or sometimes 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.640 you know, I think it got pigeonholed, is all I'm saying, yeah, 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:57.920 there were there was a smaller, smaller segment who were 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:01.200 thinking virtual sex, and but I mean those were like 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:04.000 the those were like the two applications. It was either 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.320 you were playing a game or you were having some 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:10.719 sort of weird virtual romantic internal Yeah. Yeah, that that's 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:14.920 scene in Demolition Man happened. Yeah that was a thing. Yeah, yes, 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:17.960 it was a thing. Uh if you if you haven't 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:22.159 seen that, I don't necessarily recommend it for for a 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:27.600 snipe standard book picture. You know, it's it's it's fun, 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:33.080 it's a fun film. I'm not anyway. So anyway, getting 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:37.039 getting back into virtual reality so to speak. Uh, So, 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:41.159 as time went on, the virtual reality community began to 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:44.120 really like the people who are really working on trying 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:50.280 to develop things like sophisticated head tracking technology, sophisticated display technology, 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:54.000 and input various user interfaces. Uh. What they began to 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:57.839 do was they began to appropriate stuff from other industries, 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:03.200 mostly the video game industry, because video games were progressing 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.560 and they were starting to introduce new types of controllers. So, 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:09.560 for example, when the Nintendo WE launched and they had 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:14.640 the WE control with the multiple access gyroscopes in it 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:19.480 that allowed for very specific kinds of interaction with the console, 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:23.240 the video, or the virtual environment. By now it's called 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:26.080 virtual environment's not virtual reality. Because virtual reality had sort 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:28.840 of a stigma attached to it. The virtual environment, people 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:33.240 were thinking, why don't we take that, like literally, we'll 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.040 go out and buy a Nintendo We and take apart 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:39.000 the controller and use the technology in the controller to 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:43.080 help develop our stuff, because it's less expensive than developing 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:45.800 one on our own or buying one of these very 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:49.760 specific types of parts that are only made for virtual reality. 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:54.320 So that kind of sets the scene for what happens 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:59.480 with the Oculus Rift. So let's go and first we'll 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:01.479 just talk about what the Oculus Rift is. It is 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:05.120 a headset that has two screens in the headset, one 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:09.960 screen for each eye. The two screens both render a 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:13.520 very similar image from a from a game. Yeah, on 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:16.480 casual glance, you would think that it's the same picture, 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.440 but but they're from very very slightly different angles, just 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:21.880 like your eyes are to right right to to give 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.360 the illusion of depth when your brain puts the two 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:26.800 inches together. Yeah, and we'll talk more about what's actually 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:28.960 going on there a little bit later in the podcast. 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:32.560 So it's this headset and it has motion tracking. Uh, 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:37.720 so essentially your head's motions are interpreted by by hardware 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:42.800 in this headset, sent to a computer that is taking 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:46.480 that as input and then processing it within a game 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:50.320 engine of some sort and sending back the response, so 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:53.120 that the images you see are based upon the movements 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:58.240 you're making, right, I mean that's basic head tracking technology. 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:01.160 But it was and it's this is this is what's 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:03.960 interesting to me. This is not new, Like I said this, 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:06.240 this started way back in the nineties, but a lot 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:10.480 of the software side was very primitive, and so the 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:13.400 pictures you would get would be very very basic. Like 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:15.880 and when I said that whole pterodactyl thing, one of 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:19.920 the early games was your this blocky figure moving around 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:24.800 a blocky landscape being chased by a blocky pterodactyl and 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:26.560 you had to just kind of run around and try 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:29.760 and shoot other people using a blocky gun that fired 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:34.080 get ready for it blocks. Uh, it was not it 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.640 was not that immersive. I mean, it was interesting that 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:40.200 your head could move, you know, it did track your motions, 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:42.520 but it wasn't immersive in the sense that you felt 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.480 anything was realistic. And there was a latency issue and 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:48.480 we'll talk about latency later. To latency is like the 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:53.320 death sentence for virtual reality systems. So, uh, it wasn't 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:55.280 a new idea, but this was a new way of 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.800 of approaching it, and it was all made possible by 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:01.120 other industries. It wasn't the fact at the virtual reality 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:06.520 industry had advanced to a huge degree. It was because 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:11.079 of things like smartphones and tablets. So let's talk about um, 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:14.600 kind of one of the most famous failures in virtual 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:17.640 reality first, because because this is one that uh, the 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:22.400 founder of Oculus, Palmer Lucky has mentioned before, which is 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:26.040 also from Nintendo. Yeah, the Virtual Boy back in nine. 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:31.040 This was one that the little headset would display red 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:35.960 vector graphics. I think maybe not the first, but one 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:39.080 of the first games to feature Warrio was on the 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:42.240 Virtual Boy. Uh. So he was able to survive the 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:45.960 Virtual Boy, even if the product itself did not survive 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.840 very long. Time magazine gave it a review that was 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:54.200 not positive. They actually said that, uh, that it was 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:58.120 migrain inducing and uh. And so there was a lot 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:01.600 of bad press about the Virtual Boy and it didn't 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:05.000 sell terribly well. It was one of the tech's biggest flops. 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.080 I remember it being a blip on on on my 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:11.079 radar and then almost immediately disappearing right up there with 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.079 the Nintendo Power Glove. Oh yeah, if you had the 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.440 power Glove and a virtual boy, you are a huge 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:20.120 Nintendo fan. You look like a cyborg, but you're probably 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:22.439 throwing up a lot, and you maybe had two games 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:27.360 to play. Yeah, it's also true. So Palmer Lucky, he 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:31.200 looks back on this history of virtual reality and he 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:34.640 is absolutely fascinated by it and wants to get involved 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:36.480 in it. But let's learn a little bit more about 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:40.360 who he is. First, Like you said, Lauren, he's twenty 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.480 years old right as of right this very moment. Um. 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:46.880 He's uh, he's he's from Irvine, California. Um, he self 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:50.800 identifies as a hacker maker both both at the same time. Probably. Um, 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:54.160 he was homeschooled. His dad's a car salesman. I believe. Okay, 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:58.800 he went to as you know, he for school for 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:03.199 for college. He was actually studying journalism. He in fact 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:04.960 said that one of the things he wanted to do. 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.880 He was always interested in taking things apart and learning 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:09.800 how they worked and then trying to put them back together. 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.200 And you know, he had kind of typical smart kids 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.640 success rate at things still working when they were put 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:18.640 back together after he had taken him apart. But he um. 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.120 He said that he wanted to go to journalism school 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:23.800 to learn to become a writer, so that he could 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:27.400 tell people he could write articles, like really good articles 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:34.480 to explain how stuff works. He wanted my job, Palmer 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:37.559 Lucky wanted my job. Well, I'm really glad that he 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.840 took his own job instead of ours. Yeah, because we'd 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:42.280 be all of a job and neither of us would 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.000 have in been a the Oculus rift. Fact. Yeah, because 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:48.880 he his plan b ended up ended up being a 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:53.280 lot more successful. Being pretty okay, Um, but yeah, he was. 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.800 He was. He was into some some interesting pursuits as 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:59.280 a child. Originally it was all about blowing stuff up, 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.720 shocking stuff or setting it on fire, like like like 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:06.200 Tesla coil guns. I read about some where oil guns. 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:09.040 He built coil guns as a kid. He actually said 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:11.640 at one in one interviews, it's a miracle I am 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:15.480 still alive because he was building stuff like anything that 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:20.839 would involve destruction through electronics was really fascinating to him. 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.199 Typical kids can't can't blame him, you know, like probably 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:27.520 like some little I don't want to be an armchair psychologist, 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:31.120 but in general I notice that kids and I do not. 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:35.920 I don't separate myself from here, have occasionally power fantasies 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:40.040 because so much of their life is held determined by 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.800 other people exactly. So this is sort of a self determination, 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.920 self empowerment kind of things. Some of us focus on 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.280 dinosaurs because dinosaurs are bigger than our parents and therefore 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:53.280 are more powerful. Some of us focus on tesla coil 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.520 guns that can melt our parents faces off if we 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:57.560 ever had that desire, which, by the way, he did not. 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:01.480 Let's be clear, he was not. He was not planning 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:04.440 on on zapping people. He just wanted to build stuff 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:08.640 hold us anyway, well as far as we know, but 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:11.040 he did. He did wind up doing something constructive as well. 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.959 He uh, he started up an iPhone repair business, didn't he. Yeah, 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:17.400 he sure did. As a teenager. He began to when 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:19.920 the iPhone came out. He was fascinated with that. Immediately 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.120 he took one apart and learned really what made it work. 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:27.480 And so he because of his his practical knowledge of 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:31.280 electronics that was you know, largely self taught, he ended 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:36.520 up having a successful iPhone repair business. He also would 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:40.360 jailbreak people's iPhones so if they wanted to have an 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:42.920 iPhone that could run other types of stuff on it 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.160 that rather than just what Apple would allow you to 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.800 run with whatever. Yeah, he would actually do that for 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:54.080 a fee, and apparently it was pretty successful, so so 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:57.000 successful that he might have made a round thirty six 0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:00.840 thousand dollars in a single year like this, Wow, which 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.400 you know, as a teenager, it's a pretty good salary 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:07.160 consider many humans, that's a pretty good salary for for 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:09.040 for something like this is this is his version of 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:12.480 a lemonade stand. That's a pretty successful lemonade stand. Yes, 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:15.440 as of two thousand nine, when he was sixteen, I 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.800 believe that was when he began looking into purchasing virtual 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.440 reality equipment. That's when he kind of had had had 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:23.680 been online and had seen some stuff and was getting 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.360 interested in the subject, right, And and that was also 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:31.080 he's done interviews where he's talked about how the industry 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:35.040 changed dramatically, like back in the early days. Besides things 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:38.000 like Nintendo's Virtual Boy, which were really the exception, those 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:39.760 were the few. There were only a few things that 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:43.840 were ever consumer based technologies that the average person was 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.520 would be expected to purchase right right, even today a 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.800 few years later, the very low end virtual reality equipment 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.880 runs around a thousand bucks of pop I think um 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:55.520 and and a lot of it um. A lot of 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:58.360 the more professional gear was running up near a hundred 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.360 thousand bucks. In fact, one of the things he found, 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.000 he found a piece of virtual reality equipment that was 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:06.680 pretty rare and at the time it was first produced 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:10.920 cost ninety seven thousand dollars. He bought it for eighty 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.960 seven bucks because again, the VR industry just kind of 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:18.000 peter out. Yeah, so he was really interested to seeing, 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.560 you know, in seeing how these things worked, how did 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:24.120 they track head head motion, how did they feed video 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:28.040 in and a lot of these early early VR equipment 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:32.160 pieces are enormous, right, They require things like some kind 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:35.320 of rig Exactly, they require a rig so that their 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.320 support because if you were to just wear it yourself, 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:40.720 it would be so heavy as to be uncomfortable. Some 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:42.400 of them would be too heavy for you to even 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.400 effectively move your head. So a lot of them would 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.120 have these rigs that would allow you to have suspension 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:52.040 from from like uh uh, not the ceiling, but it 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.840 would the rig itself would extend beyond where you would stand, 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:58.160 and there'd be cords that would help support the weight 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:00.480 of the helmet, so you wouldn't have full three hundred 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:02.880 sixty degree motion either. If you were to try and 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.400 turn all the way around, eventually those those chords start 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:07.400 to wrap up. Yeah, and you'd have to turn back 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:11.280 the other way. So he was interested in purchasing as 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:14.240 many of these as possible to learn what made him tick. Yeah, 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:16.800 he was. He was thinking about creating more immersive game 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:20.280 interfaces and uh and inexperiences and but but none of 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:22.880 this stuff was really what he was looking for. He 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:25.520 was he was kind of hoping to salvage something together 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.800 for himself, honestly, and um, and none of it was 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:33.440 working right, So, but he learned a lot during this period, yeah, 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:36.120 and um. In As of twenty eleven, he was working 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.600 at the University of Southern California's Institute for Creative Technologies, 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:43.320 which I believe is in military associated facility at the 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:45.680 stuff they did was for the military. Specifically, he was 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:49.800 working in the Virtual Reality Exposure Therapy Program UM sometimes 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:54.720 called Virtual IRAQ, which helps veterans who have PTSD use 0:16:55.000 --> 0:17:00.240 VR therapy to to get over their post traumatic stress disorder. Yeah. 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.400 In fact, this is one of the most fascinating uses 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.080 for virtual reality. And I've I've actually talked to there 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:08.359 was Um, there are people over at Emery, and there 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.360 are people over at Duke who run labs that use 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:13.760 this kind of approach, and I've talked about it for 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:16.320 use with PTSD. Have also talked about it for use 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:20.200 with things like phobias, and the idea is it's this 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:25.160 immersion therapy where you immerse a person into certain situations 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:30.640 that might trigger anxiety or stress, but they are they 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.239 know that they are in a safe environment. They know 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:36.399 ultimately deep down that they are perfectly safe, that they 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.240 are not really in that. But it's immersive enough for 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:41.880 people who have a severe fear of flying. I've heard 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:45.000 that it's extremely successful. Something something along the lines of 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:48.240 you could do a virtual visit to an airport. And 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:52.560 the interesting thing here is that the scientists have discovered 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:55.320 that the graphics do not have to be photo realistic 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.040 at all. They don't have to be you know, to 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:00.000 the point where you would look at something and things 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:05.280 that's identifiable as Dullest International Airport, for example, you might 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:07.560 look at and just say there's a building and there's 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.120 the representation of a plane next to it. That's the airport. 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:14.400 And once you get into the immersive environment, which usually 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.000 takes around half a minute to a minute long for 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:19.639 you to really get acclimated, assuming that everything is working 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:23.280 properly on the technical end, then you start to have 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:26.000 the actual physical reactions you would if you were in 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:29.360 the real situation. So, for example, one about a fear 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:32.600 of heights. I remember specifically reading about this, actually talking 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:34.159 about this to some of the people at Duke and 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:37.439 Emory Um. You might have a simulation where you're on 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:39.639 the top of a tall building. The building does not 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.040 necessarily look like a real building. I mean, it might 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.600 look like almost a cartoonish example, but the person would 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.760 start to have that same physiological response as if they 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.240 were in the real situation. And it was part of 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.840 this this uh this therapy to expose oneself to these 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:58.119 situations in a safe environment to get acclimated. It's the 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.879 psychological principle of facing fears. Essentially, there's there's a lot 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:05.000 more technical terminology and there's a lot of a lot 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:09.040 of other elements to this therapy. Obviously that you don't 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:10.600 want it to just be cruel and be like, hey, 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:13.320 I heard you're scared of spiders. Here's a big Harry spider. 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.920 That's not that's not therapy, that's cruelty. It's it's extremely 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.639 guided therapy. And and there are many parts of it 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:24.160 and uh, but but it's excellent, really interesting work. Yeah, 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:27.199 and so Lucky was working on this. He was this 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:31.080 was part of the stuff that that he was involved in. 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:33.000 And he he will be the first to tell you, 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:35.399 by the way, he's a hardware guy. He's not a 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:38.800 software guy. And in fact, there's some great interviews that 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:43.600 he's done with other members of the software community, of 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:47.800 the video game community where he says the success of 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:51.040 the Oculus Rift, the early success that has had before, 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:53.480 it's not even a consumer product yet as of the 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:57.479 recording of this podcast. It there's developer kits that are 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:00.000 out and that's about it. Yeah, you cannot, you cannot 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.280 as a consumer by this and expect to use it. 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:04.840 With a ton of games there right now, there are 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:07.480 two games that are really I think I think three 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:10.280 as as of this podcast. Okay, so the third one 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:13.320 has has recently joined in the past week, but it's 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:16.240 not like, you can't plug it into your console either. 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:19.480 This is PC only right now, with the hope that 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:23.600 maybe one day it'll it'll be available for multiple platforms 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:26.639 at any rate. He he actually says, uh, you know, 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.359 point blank, he says, the success of this would not 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:33.000 exist without the software side. But that's not my world. 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:37.960 I can't program, I can build this hardware, so uh 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:41.280 he he really was using that expertise while working over 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:45.000 at the Southern California's Institute for Creative Technology, right, and 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:47.200 he threw I think and he was a member of 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:48.760 a couple of forums, the names of which I am 0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:52.480 completely forgetting. So somebody right in and tell me correct 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:56.040 my complete lack of a word to give you, Mr Lucky. 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:58.760 First of all, I object to have to call you Mr. 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:01.479 You're eighteen years younger than I am. But if you're listening, 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:05.000 just to just right in and tell us what they were. Um. 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:08.440 And he developed this plan um too. You know, he 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:12.840 really wanted to build a kind of kind of a 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:18.120 personal hobbyist kit of VR headsets and do it yourself. Yeah. Yeah, 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:21.679 So so he planned a Kickstarter to just create a 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:25.280 hundred enthusiast kits. Um. You know that that you know, 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:28.880 contributors would would get the pieces of a virtual reality 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:31.040 headset and put it together themselves and be able to 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:34.000 play around with it. And um but but this got 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:36.800 the attention of John Carmack. Yeah. And if you don't 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:38.840 know that name, then you haven't been playing a lot 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:41.639 of ID softwares games. Yes, he's the co founder of 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:44.760 ID Software. He was the lead programmer on like Wolfenstein 0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:50.040 three D and quick game games. Okay it was the 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:52.439 series was just the first one wasn't a very good 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:55.919 Quake player. So like, once multiplayer got into introduced and 0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:59.720 I realized that, hey, people react very differently than computer 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:04.680 controlled bad guys, my my kill death ratio was out 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:09.080 the window. I'm not. What I'm saying is I'm not 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:11.520 good at these games and what and what? And furthermore, 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:13.320 that you don't like games that you can't be better 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:16.800 than other people at Oh I hate that. That's just 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:18.439 in general. By the way, if you ever have the 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:20.800 opportunity to play a game with me, just turn it down. 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:26.119 Just and I'm including like board games, card games, maybe 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:29.680 a role playing game that I mean, if you're playing Clue, 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:31.520