Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
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Speaker 1: From how stuff Works dot com? Everybody loves altoy. It's
Speaker 1: little mints that come intense. Well, once the ments are gone,
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Speaker 1: Check out how stuff works dot com slash tent evators
Speaker 1: to find out more. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. With me is always Charles W. Chuck Bryant.
Speaker 1: You sound like you're smiling big as you are. This
Speaker 1: is stuff you should know. Of course I'm smiling. Yeah,
Speaker 1: why not. We're in the We're happy chairs, Chuck. Is
Speaker 1: it like August mid late August? August right mid August.
Speaker 1: So you know what that means, don't you. It means
Speaker 1: as hot as hades, and it is. It's gross, man.
Speaker 1: It keeps, it keeps raining just long enough to soak
Speaker 1: the ground and then boom the sun comes out and
Speaker 1: it's muggy. Yeah, awful. Yeah, it's I actually spoken to
Speaker 1: people who have lived in New Orleans and they say
Speaker 1: that it is as bad as New Orleans. He's really yeah,
Speaker 1: I believe it, Thank you, Al Gore. Stupid global warming,
Speaker 1: but that's not what you were going to talk about anyway.
Speaker 1: I just totally sidetracked. You didn't, I yeah, but I
Speaker 1: went with it. This is my way. So what does
Speaker 1: August mean? August means that we are to know one
Speaker 1: month and change away from the ignoble Awards. Right, not
Speaker 1: to be confused with the Darwin Awards. No, which, Chuck.
Speaker 1: How many people sent us when we did that spontaneous
Speaker 1: human combustion? Sent us that Darwin Award clip of that
Speaker 1: that Indian man on top of the train, Yeah, getting electrocuted. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was very distressing, it is. And only about half
Speaker 1: of those said be warned what you're about to watch.
Speaker 1: The others were like, check this out, Kentucky Fried dude. Yeah,
Speaker 1: normally like I don't like watching people die, but that one,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I thought it was kind of interesting, distressing. Sure,
Speaker 1: So was he a dar Win Award winner? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: can't remember what four, but he was definitely an award winner.
Speaker 1: The Darwin Awards are a different deal. Those those people
Speaker 1: are generally chided for stupidity and the IG Nobel Prize
Speaker 1: winners are not made fun of. Plus, the Ignoble Awards
Speaker 1: actually recognize honest to goodness, genuine scientific research, left of
Speaker 1: center scientific research a little bit, but scientific research nonetheless.
Speaker 1: So the Ignoble Awards are coming up. As I said
Speaker 1: October one, they're actually going to have a live webcast
Speaker 1: this year, really, yeah, beginning at seven fifteen Eastern Standard time,
Speaker 1: and I imagine you'll be able to find the webcast
Speaker 1: or at least a link to it on Improbable research
Speaker 1: dot com. Right. Well, NPR every year broadcasts at um
Speaker 1: the Friday after Thanksgiving. This year it's the day before Thanksgiving,
Speaker 1: I believe, so we'll look at you. Yeah, but if
Speaker 1: you don't want to wait and you want to see
Speaker 1: it live as it happens, yeah, Friday November, the day
Speaker 1: after Thanksgiving. So what are these, dude? We should go
Speaker 1: ahead and tell people it's a riff on two things
Speaker 1: on the Nobel Prize and the word ignoble, which means
Speaker 1: of low character or inferior quality. Right, And I have
Speaker 1: to say that Mark Abrams, the guy who is the
Speaker 1: editor of Improbable Research, which is a scientific humor magazine.
Speaker 1: Now it's a website. Um, he kind of does a
Speaker 1: little fancy footwork here there. What do you mean, well,
Speaker 1: he says that they're they're not. Yeah, He's like, we're
Speaker 1: not making fun of people, but we're making fun of people.
Speaker 1: But because of the Ignoble Prize, Right, he's saying, like,
Speaker 1: this is actually the too spark curiosity and science, but
Speaker 1: we're celebrating research that shouldn't be replicated or reproduced. He's
Speaker 1: kind of all over the place. He wants to have
Speaker 1: his cake and eat it too. A little bit he does,
Speaker 1: and boy, how he does he? Ever, since I think
Speaker 1: they've done, They've handed out Ignoble prizes for all sorts
Speaker 1: of stuff, and uh, it's I like it. I think
Speaker 1: it's fun, sure, and most people do take it lightheartedly.
Speaker 1: I have a very famous case that I can go
Speaker 1: into later on that someone who did not take it
Speaker 1: very lightheartedly. But it's meant to be very humorous. And
Speaker 1: if you look at some of the the award winners
Speaker 1: every year, you can see why. So each year they
Speaker 1: give a prize out for in ten different categories, right, yes,
Speaker 1: you let me go through those might as well. Those categories,
Speaker 1: Josh are nutrition, peace, archaeology, biology, medicine, cognitive science, economics, physics, chemistry,
Speaker 1: and literature. And this, like I said, this is uh,
Speaker 1: this is actually legitimate research. Sometimes they're given out to
Speaker 1: patent holders, but a lot of times also if you've
Speaker 1: had a study published in a legitimate journal, you can
Speaker 1: you're you're you're a candidate. You can be a candidate.
Speaker 1: I think they get like five thousand nominations every year
Speaker 1: and they sort through all of them. Right, you can
Speaker 1: nominate yourself, right, and the study what the study doesn't
Speaker 1: have to have been done in the year that the
Speaker 1: prizes are given out. Yeah. Actually, chuck um back in
Speaker 1: some researchers UM at right Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio.
Speaker 1: We're working on a project that UM they entitled Harassing, Annoying,
Speaker 1: and bad guy identifying chemicals, right, and they saw seven
Speaker 1: point five million dollars for research grants. Is a real deal,
Speaker 1: it is. I've actually seen that the documents from the
Speaker 1: Air Force UM and basically what they were coming up
Speaker 1: with was a non lethal project of UM, you know
Speaker 1: chemicals that one of them was her basically a chemical
Speaker 1: that would they would launch behind enemy lines and it
Speaker 1: would arouse the ire of uh stinging insects in the area,
Speaker 1: so they go and attack the the enemy. Another one
Speaker 1: was to uh create I think chronic or prolonged halitosis
Speaker 1: among enemy soldiers so they couldn't stand to be around
Speaker 1: one another. And then there was the one that got
Speaker 1: the Ignobell, the infamous gay bomb. Yes, it says that, um,
Speaker 1: this is under the category I'm sorry category three chemicals
Speaker 1: chemicals that affect human behavior, so that discipline and morale
Speaker 1: in enemy units is adversely affected. One distasteful but completely
Speaker 1: non lethal example would be strong effrodgiacs, especially if the
Speaker 1: chemical also caused homosexual behavior. So yeah, the the the
Speaker 1: Air Force was working on a gay bomb. How much
Speaker 1: money did they put towards this? Well, hold on it
Speaker 1: one the two thousand and seven Ignobell Peace Prize, the
Speaker 1: prize how much money seven point five million, and that
Speaker 1: don't know, you know what exactly what exactly came of it?
Speaker 1: And the Air Force didn't take kindly to this, correct,
Speaker 1: they kind of they did not show up to receive
Speaker 1: the award, right, I don't think they ever had a
Speaker 1: statement to the contrary that they were upset, But yeah,
Speaker 1: they didn't show up and say hey, thanks. This whole
Speaker 1: gabon thing didn't work out, but thanks thanks for the props.
Speaker 1: Who judges these things? Actually, what's crazy is that some
Speaker 1: Nobel Award winners, like real Nobel Award winners, serve on
Speaker 1: the Board of Governors to decide who is going to
Speaker 1: get an ignoble prize? Right Ena, who also has the
Speaker 1: professor from Gilkins Island? No, yeah, holy Castle Johnson served
Speaker 1: one year. Apparently they do that. They get celebrities and
Speaker 1: certain actors and athletes to be on the panel. And
Speaker 1: they said regular street Joe's your average Joe off the street.
Speaker 1: They'll put them on the panel to Yeah. And it's
Speaker 1: held at Harvard. Yeah, what used to be an m
Speaker 1: I t announced at Harvard. They have a big ceremony
Speaker 1: every year. And I think the prize laureates are able
Speaker 1: to give a one minute acceptance speeches. All yeah. They
Speaker 1: have little miss Hutie Poo who has to who basically
Speaker 1: shouts them off stage when they start exceeding their minute. Uh.
Speaker 1: And the criteria for little miss cutie Pooh is that
Speaker 1: she must be an adorable eight year old with ice
Speaker 1: water in her veins and from the Boston area. And
Speaker 1: they're actually looking for applicants right now. So yeah, if
Speaker 1: you're listening in Boston and you're an eight year old terror, yeah,
Speaker 1: you might want to apply with a shrill voice. Bring it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The the award itself, Josh, is different every year, which
Speaker 1: is kind of cool. They have different designs each year,
Speaker 1: and one of them was the was a cereal box
Speaker 1: labeled Ignoble ohs. And that actually, uh kind of leads
Speaker 1: as a nice segue into the discussion about this one
Speaker 1: guy who very famously uh derided the Ignoble Awards as
Speaker 1: stifling science or at the very least, you know, um,
Speaker 1: making fun of it, serious scientific, you're not happy about it. No,
Speaker 1: Bob May, it was. Bob May was the head of
Speaker 1: the Science Ministry uh in for the UK. So he
Speaker 1: was pretty big cheese. I imagine you could put him
Speaker 1: on par with maybe the Surgeon General or the head
Speaker 1: of the um uh National Science Foundation here um. And
Speaker 1: he came out and he wrote a letter to Improbable Research,
Speaker 1: and he also had one published in Nature where he
Speaker 1: just railed on the Ignoble organizers and improbable research. He
Speaker 1: said not to ever award another one to anyone from England. No,
Speaker 1: and that was kind of like, hey, thanks the people
Speaker 1: who were getting the award that year had been doing research.
Speaker 1: They were from the University of East Anglia, who I
Speaker 1: have to say is a university that produces some really
Speaker 1: entertaining studies. Um, but this one was the research into
Speaker 1: the effects or what makes soggy serial or serial saggy.
Speaker 1: That's good research, right, Well, he don't give it to
Speaker 1: these people, don't ever give it to another British scientist again.
Speaker 1: And actually he thought, you know he was. He had
Speaker 1: just put the final stamp of disapproval on it. Actually
Speaker 1: created this huge outcry in the scientific community about how
Speaker 1: stuffy the British scientific and certainly not doing very much
Speaker 1: to quelle. No, he wasn't. And in two thousand his
Speaker 1: successor actually went no. Two thousand two actually went to
Speaker 1: the ig Nobel Awards to basically show that hey, great
Speaker 1: Britain's you know back on board, baby, Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: science the more you can um laugh at certain things
Speaker 1: and have fun with it the better, because you know,
Speaker 1: you want to turn other people onto science. You don't
Speaker 1: want to turn them off by thinking that you know,
Speaker 1: we're also stuffying uptight that we can't laugh at ourselves.
Speaker 1: You just gave me yet another segwe speaking of turning
Speaker 1: people on um. The two thousand Nobel ig Nobel Prize
Speaker 1: winner for Medicine was a guy named Dr Peck van Andel.
Speaker 1: Is that a real name, Yes it is, he's Uh.
Speaker 1: I think he's Dutch. Sounds like a pseudonym. He won
Speaker 1: the two thousand You you would think it might be.
Speaker 1: He won the two thousand ig Nobel Prize for Medicine.
Speaker 1: Uh for making the first m ri I video of
Speaker 1: human reproductive organs while they're engaged in the act of coitus.
Speaker 1: And dude, yeah, if you came, I did, and it
Speaker 1: is an mri I porner. It's crazy. So basically he
Speaker 1: had he had two people performing intercourse inside an MRI
Speaker 1: machine for this, and uh, yeah, he has a video
Speaker 1: of it and it's up on YouTube. Actually it's an
Speaker 1: improbable research number one nineteen, I believe. And I should
Speaker 1: probably say if you are listening, you're watching, you're you're
Speaker 1: listening to this at work and you're about to open
Speaker 1: another tab, you might want to take it easy, wait
Speaker 1: till you get home. And if you're twelve, don't watch
Speaker 1: this yet, at least don't tell your parents that it
Speaker 1: was Josh and Chuck who told you about this? Right?
Speaker 1: Should we talk about some more of these prizes? Yeah, dude,
Speaker 1: it's time. I think Robert Lamb, who wrote this awesome
Speaker 1: piece of work, probably had a lot of fun with
Speaker 1: this one. He wrote that. Um. In two thousand three,
Speaker 1: Keys W. Mulliker did a study on the existence of
Speaker 1: homosexual necrophiliac ducks. And this is all real. Yeah it
Speaker 1: actually the study led to dead duck Day in the Netherlands.
Speaker 1: Now really, well, it's funny you should say the Netherlands,
Speaker 1: because there was one in New Zealand about exploding pants
Speaker 1: among New Zealand farmers in the nine thirties. Someone studied
Speaker 1: that too. Yeah, what was up with that? I have
Speaker 1: no idea. I didn't I didn't see the final outcome.
Speaker 1: I I went on the improbable research and found some
Speaker 1: other winner's chuck. Um. There's some pretty wacky stuff out there.
Speaker 1: At the very least, I mean, you have to think
Speaker 1: about it. When somebody undertakes this this a study, they're
Speaker 1: very serious about it. They want to get to the
Speaker 1: bottom of it. And obviously if you look at it
Speaker 1: like the gay bomb, they didn't say the gay bomb. Plus,
Speaker 1: you know, arousing steam bees and there's legitimate research associated
Speaker 1: with it's the gay bomb. They're picking out the funniest
Speaker 1: angle of looking at this, but there is some legitimate
Speaker 1: There is very much legitimate research put into this, and
Speaker 1: you have to imagine it's funding for this research. Somebody
Speaker 1: said Okay, yeah, go check out necrophiliac homosexual ducks and
Speaker 1: then it's published. Yeah, usually in a medical journal. I
Speaker 1: have one from last year that was pretty funny in
Speaker 1: the field of chemistry. Um Sherry and Pierre Joseph Hill
Speaker 1: and Deborah Anderson discovered that coca cola is an effective
Speaker 1: spermicide and see why Hong c c she pe Wu
Speaker 1: and b and Chiang accidentally proved that it is not
Speaker 1: an effective spermacide in the same year. So they were
Speaker 1: both award the award for chemistry, which I thought was
Speaker 1: pretty funny, and they all showed up to receive it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: both sides of the studies. Um. I think it was
Speaker 1: last year, Chuck that uh Ivan are Schwab and Philip
Speaker 1: are A may Um won the prize for ornithology. What
Speaker 1: was that they researched Why woodpeckers don't get headaches really
Speaker 1: or why they give people headaches is what I would
Speaker 1: follow up with No, uh, last year and nutrition. This
Speaker 1: one I thought was pretty funny. Brian Wantsink investigated people's
Speaker 1: appetite for mindless eating, and his trick was he had
Speaker 1: a self refilling bowl of soup in front of them
Speaker 1: that they didn't realize was constantly refilling itself. He would
Speaker 1: study if they would just keep on eating and eating
Speaker 1: without thinking about it. Awesome. I could go for a
Speaker 1: self refilling bowl of soup. Really yeah, depending on the
Speaker 1: soup loaded baked potato definitely. Um, I've got one. You're ready. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The Ignoble Prize for Mathematics in a two thousand in
Speaker 1: seven UM went to nick's Vence Venson and Piers Barnes
Speaker 1: of the Australian Commonwealth Scientific and Research Organization. They calculated
Speaker 1: the number of photographs you have to take to ensure
Speaker 1: that nobody in a group photo will have their eyes closed.
Speaker 1: Do you have the stat No? I don't, But if
Speaker 1: you want the stat you can read the June two
Speaker 1: thousand and six issue of Velocity and the articles called
Speaker 1: blink free Photos Guaranteed. I've got one for you too.
Speaker 1: We could do this all day, we could, but this
Speaker 1: one is actually could be real have real applications in aviation.
Speaker 1: They discovered that hamsters recover from jet lag more quickly
Speaker 1: when given viagra, So there might be something to that
Speaker 1: jet lags, you know, a problem for some people, and
Speaker 1: maybe something in the viagra could actually help humans because
Speaker 1: rats and hamsters and humans all kind of are wired
Speaker 1: the same. Well. I don't know if it's groundbaracking research
Speaker 1: as much as it is, you know, just proving conventional wisdom.
Speaker 1: You know, Well, do you think so with viagra? Everybody
Speaker 1: knows viagra? Here's jet lagging rodents? Okay, sorry, you got
Speaker 1: another one? I do? Can you tell by the look
Speaker 1: on my face? Yeah, you were gasping. Two thousand and seven,
Speaker 1: the Medicine Prize went to some researchers from the University
Speaker 1: of Tennessee College of Medicine. They did some research into
Speaker 1: terminating hiccups by digital rectal massage and digital in this case. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was out. You know, that's funny. I read that earlier.
Speaker 1: I was like, how can you get a digital rectal massage?
Speaker 1: I was thinking digitizing, all right, I wasn't thinking fingers.
Speaker 1: That makes sense. Do you got any more you want
Speaker 1: to do another couple. Actually there was one what the
Speaker 1: guy who studied strippers and found that strippers get more
Speaker 1: tips when they're ovulating. Yeah, they won the Economics Prize
Speaker 1: last year. I thought that was pretty pretty interesting. So
Speaker 1: in essence, it's a lot of fun. You know, they're
Speaker 1: they're kind of poking fun, but it is some legitimate
Speaker 1: research going on, and I just think it's a good time.
Speaker 1: I agree. And if you're interested in checking it out out,
Speaker 1: as I said, the ig Noo Bell Prizes are gonna
Speaker 1: be on there's gonna be a live webcast at seven
Speaker 1: fifteen Eastern on October one if you want to find
Speaker 1: out who ends up being miss Cutie Poo for two
Speaker 1: thousand nine in a wig, eight year old, steely cold. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I could hear it. Yeah, so Chuck. I guess that's
Speaker 1: it right. If you want to read this, I have
Speaker 1: to say, you said, Robert Lamb wrote a great article.
Speaker 1: I agreed. I think this article has one of the
Speaker 1: best introductions on the site. It's a good one. You
Speaker 1: can find that by typing in EIGG and then space
Speaker 1: and Nobel on the handy search bar on how stuff
Speaker 1: works dot com. And since I said that, that means
Speaker 1: my friends that it is time for listener may all. Yes, indeed, Josh,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna call this answer to our query about
Speaker 1: the biggest badass of World War two. Yes, Chuck, I'm
Speaker 1: very excited about this one. We got a lot of
Speaker 1: respond section. We called it, if you remember correctly, just
Speaker 1: to recap, we did a thing on jaff any stragglers. Wait,
Speaker 1: let's go to the way back machine and listen to
Speaker 1: what we said in contrast to u COI was the
Speaker 1: baddest dude in World War two. Probably as a matter
Speaker 1: of fact, I invite our listeners to email us by
Speaker 1: anybody who can who want, any single individual who can
Speaker 1: top the man we're about to talk about as in badness. Okay,
Speaker 1: I agree, and Josh will personally email you back and
Speaker 1: debate you. And there it is. So. We we posited
Speaker 1: the Onada was one of the biggest uh rambos of
Speaker 1: the war, and we challenge people sendance went bad and
Speaker 1: people did. Yeah, we got a lot of responses. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but there was one that had overwhelming uh support. There
Speaker 1: was there are actually a couple we want to give
Speaker 1: a special uh uh. I guess you would call it
Speaker 1: a runner up to Audie Murphy. Yeah, famous American actor
Speaker 1: and soldier. Yeah, baby face like a buck. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I started shooting at him. He went crazy and he
Speaker 1: was awesome and he was super bad. But I think
Speaker 1: he gets a little attention because he was a real
Speaker 1: small guy and he was American, and he was American.
Speaker 1: He had like such a chairb base like people think, wow, man,
Speaker 1: he's extra bad because he was tough and he's a
Speaker 1: little We got some boats. There was some British guy
Speaker 1: that was pretty bad. Another couple of Japanese dudes. But
Speaker 1: wait what you got another one? But we have a winner, Yes,
Speaker 1: clear winner. This guy is so bad. This is uh
Speaker 1: semo hia Hija. The nickname for him was white Death. Yes.
Speaker 1: Can I tell this guy's story please? All right? So
Speaker 1: he was a Finnish farmer and he um was just
Speaker 1: basically doing his own thing when the Russians invaded Finland
Speaker 1: the Winter War. Yes, he didn't like this one bit.
Speaker 1: So basically he took a standard bolt action rifle without
Speaker 1: a sight. Yeah, no no head site, no scope, no
Speaker 1: scope sorry yeah uh and went out into the woods,
Speaker 1: the sub arctic woods of Finland, where it gets to
Speaker 1: about forty degrees below fahrenheight and just basically sat up
Speaker 1: in trees or in blinds and waited. And he didn't
Speaker 1: have to wait very long. Over the course of one year,
Speaker 1: just using this old rifle, he killed five hundred Russians,
Speaker 1: five hundred and five as a sniper. As a sniper,
Speaker 1: a lot of these people. When the Russians were finally
Speaker 1: alerted that there was one sniper out there there was
Speaker 1: causing them all these problems, they sent detachments with the
Speaker 1: specific mission of going to kill him. Find the White Death. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's when he got the name the White Death. So
Speaker 1: they send, they send detachment after detachment out and he
Speaker 1: just murders every single one of them too. He killed
Speaker 1: two hundred people with a submachine gun, so that would,
Speaker 1: I guess would be like the close up fight. So
Speaker 1: seven hundred and five seven five confirmed kills in a year.
Speaker 1: Finally somebody gets close enough to him to shoot him
Speaker 1: in the face with an explode name pullet, and it
Speaker 1: still didn't kill him. Yep, he was shot in the jaw.
Speaker 1: Rumor has it that he shot the other sniper before
Speaker 1: losing consciousness, So the guy that just shot him before
Speaker 1: he passed out, he killed him immediate retribution. And the
Speaker 1: guy who wrote in with the best email says, unofficially
Speaker 1: he had over eight hundred kills and this was an
Speaker 1: under one hundred days. It was less than a year. Wow.
Speaker 1: So he said it was just a killing machine. Think
Speaker 1: about it. That is at least five kills per day
Speaker 1: plus two hundred kills with the World War two submachine gun.
Speaker 1: And he still didn't die. You know, he lost consciousness
Speaker 1: and woke up apparently the day World War two ended. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he lived until So I think the White Death
Speaker 1: I'm gonna vote for him. Oh, hands down. He is
Speaker 1: the biggest badass of World War Two. Yeah, although some
Speaker 1: people are going to write in and say, yeah, but
Speaker 1: this was sniper stuff and Autie Murphy fought people with
Speaker 1: like a knife. And I gotta tell you, Autie Murphy
Speaker 1: is to me a very close second. But the White Death,
Speaker 1: first of all, alone forty degree, he's below fahrenheight just
Speaker 1: sitting out there sniping Russians. I mean, I think he's
Speaker 1: I think he wins the award in my opinion. He does.
Speaker 1: So I want to give credit where credit is due here.
Speaker 1: We want to thank carson Um from Toronto. Actually it's
Speaker 1: a joke. I'm making a joke. He's actually from Edmonton
Speaker 1: and he said please don't say him from Toronto. And
Speaker 1: he also said something about eating heaven euros and mentioning
Speaker 1: that so his friends would know it's really him. Okay,
Speaker 1: so Carson, we've done so. So Carson from Edmonton, Timman
Speaker 1: in New York City, Devon from Georgia, and Adrian all
Speaker 1: wrote in with White Death and I think they're actually
Speaker 1: more stuff I left you off. Yeah, I know they're definitely,
Speaker 1: don't snipe me. And also there's a really cool uh
Speaker 1: article craft dot com about Rambo or basically actual life
Speaker 1: soldiers who Rambo looked like something or other. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: that was worth reading. And if you want to send
Speaker 1: us an email about anything at all, White Death or otherwise,
Speaker 1: you can send that to stuff pod cats at how
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. For more on this and thousands
Speaker 1: of other topics, visit how stuff works dot com. Want
Speaker 1: more how stuff works, check out our blogs on the
Speaker 1: house stuff works dot com home page. Hey, if you're
Speaker 1: a fan of altoids the curiously strong Mints, you probably
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