WEBVTT - The Printing Press: The Invention Built on Debt and Sin

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin too quick. No, it's perfect push kit stuff. You

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<v Speaker 1>got it.

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<v Speaker 2>Frank up the siege engine. Because we're going back to

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<v Speaker 2>the Middle Ages.

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<v Speaker 3>I will wear my leather corset.

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<v Speaker 2>We're doing a biggie today. We are maybe the biggest

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<v Speaker 2>one we've done yet. The printing press, the printing press.

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<v Speaker 2>Love the printing press. Yes, it is everything, including a business.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm Jacob Goldstein, I'm Robert Smith, and this is business

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<v Speaker 3>show about the history. So why don't we go way back.

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<v Speaker 2>Of business today on the show the invention of the

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<v Speaker 2>printing press, which is a surprisingly modern story. There is debt,

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<v Speaker 2>there is equity, there is a court case, competition, international

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<v Speaker 2>branch offices, and the Protestant Reformation. Our show today begins

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<v Speaker 2>with the man named Johannes gen Spleisch zuur Lauden.

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<v Speaker 3>Did not see that coming.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm probably saying it wrong because I don't speak German.

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<v Speaker 2>Johannes Goose Flesh of the House of Laden was born

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<v Speaker 2>around fourteen hundred to relatively rich parents in a town

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<v Speaker 2>called Mainz in what's Germany today. At the time it

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<v Speaker 2>was part of the Holy Roman Empire.

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<v Speaker 3>Which Fultaire said, of course, was neither holy nor Roman.

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<v Speaker 3>Nor An Empire.

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<v Speaker 2>When Johannes is around twenty years old, his father dies

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<v Speaker 2>and his mother comes into possession of a house called

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<v Speaker 2>the hoff Zuom Gutenberg House of the Good Mountain, and

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<v Speaker 2>Johannes becomes known as Johannes Zoom Gutenberg. I guess last

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<v Speaker 2>names work differently back then.

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<v Speaker 3>There are many Johannases and you're like, oh, the Good

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<v Speaker 3>Mountain one.

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<v Speaker 2>The one he's over at the Good Mountain House. So

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<v Speaker 2>what do we know about Gutenberg. There's a famous engraving

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<v Speaker 2>of him. If you've seen a picture of Gutenberg, it

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<v Speaker 2>is from this engraving. He's got this long white beard,

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<v Speaker 2>comes down to like two points on his chest like

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<v Speaker 2>zz top, Yeah, like zezytop style. He's wearing a fur

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<v Speaker 2>trimmed hat. Gutenberg didn't look like this. The picture was

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<v Speaker 2>made like one hundred years after he died. There's no

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<v Speaker 2>pictures of him as far as we know from his lifetime.

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<v Speaker 2>And I love this right And as we'll see, there's

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<v Speaker 2>all this myth, even as you get into the story

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<v Speaker 2>sort of embroidered about him. I mean, we don't know

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<v Speaker 2>what he thought or felt, you know, as far as

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<v Speaker 2>we know, there's no diary or trove of letters. But

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<v Speaker 2>of course he printed books, and a surprising number of

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<v Speaker 2>the books still exist.

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<v Speaker 3>And also conveniently for.

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<v Speaker 2>Our purposes, he wound up in court a few times

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<v Speaker 2>and the paperwork, the court records, actually still exist. And

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<v Speaker 2>so a lot of what we know about Goot and

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<v Speaker 2>the invention of the printing press and how it was

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<v Speaker 2>used comes from these basically lawsuits over money, which is

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<v Speaker 2>great for US business history. So here's this story we

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<v Speaker 2>can put together. At some point, we know Gutenberg became

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<v Speaker 2>an affiliate of the Master Goldsmith's.

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<v Speaker 3>Not an apprentice, but an affiliates.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly, so it's different. So the Master Goldsmiths are a guild,

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<v Speaker 2>which is, you know, the medieval version of a union.

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<v Speaker 2>Guilds were a big deal. Maybe we should do a

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<v Speaker 2>guild show. Actually he was not in the union. He

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<v Speaker 2>worked with gold is basically what that means in some way.

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<v Speaker 2>So we know that he's into metal, and we also

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<v Speaker 2>know that he was an entrepreneur. And now here, I

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<v Speaker 2>am this is like an anachronism, right, I'm sort of

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<v Speaker 2>projecting backwards. There there were not entrepreneurs in the modern sense.

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<v Speaker 2>The word didn't exist. But yet I think you'll see

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<v Speaker 2>as we go through the story. He was a hustler,

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<v Speaker 2>he was a guy who started businesses. His life is

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<v Speaker 2>much more that way than I would have thought for

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<v Speaker 2>someone who living in you know, the end of the

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<v Speaker 2>Middle Ages basically. But then again, like he is the

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<v Speaker 2>guy who is going to invent the thing that's gonna

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<v Speaker 2>create the modern world, so maybe it makes sense. So

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<v Speaker 2>the first kind of hustle, the first business that he

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<v Speaker 2>starts that we know of, is mirrors. Gutenberg gets into

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<v Speaker 2>the mirror game and he finds this great, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>fourteen hundreds kind of niche, which is he's going to

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<v Speaker 2>sell special mirrors to religious pilgrims.

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<v Speaker 3>What made the mirror special? They're special. They're like convex

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<v Speaker 3>mirrors that are specially made for the pilgrims.

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<v Speaker 2>To take on their pilgrimage. And I'll explain why. I'll

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<v Speaker 2>explain why. So what's going on is in fourteen thirty nine,

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<v Speaker 2>there's going to be a pilgrimage to this German town

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<v Speaker 2>to see these relics that are displayed just once every

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<v Speaker 2>seven years, like a piece of the gown that Mary

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<v Speaker 2>wore the night Jesus was born, the loincloth that Jesus wore,

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<v Speaker 2>on the cross and is stained with blood, that kind

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<v Speaker 2>of thing.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this is like woodstock for religious pilgrims.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, And so the idea with these mirrors is,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, when you get your moment before the holy

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<v Speaker 2>relics looking at them, you hold up the mirror, and

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<v Speaker 2>the mirror can somehow capture the holy power that the

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<v Speaker 2>relics have. And to be clear, he didn't invent this idea.

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<v Speaker 3>This was a thing that people were doing, spread by

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<v Speaker 3>mirror merchants perhaps perhaps, but he's he's going with it.

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<v Speaker 3>He's going with it, and he actually gets a couple

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<v Speaker 3>of investors who have equity in the project. Essentially what

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<v Speaker 3>we would call equity, starts making the mirrors, as far

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<v Speaker 3>as we can tell. And then when your classic pieces

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<v Speaker 3>of medieval bad news arrives, the plague on the back

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<v Speaker 3>of a rat, the back of a flea, on the

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<v Speaker 3>back of a rat. It's like panics in the stories

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<v Speaker 3>we tell the nineteennres. You know, everything's going fine, and

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<v Speaker 3>then the plague.

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<v Speaker 2>The plague is the financial panic of the thirteen and

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<v Speaker 2>fourteen hundred.

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<v Speaker 3>It's very good.

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<v Speaker 2>Pilgrimage is delayed until fourteen forty.

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<v Speaker 3>He must have been sad, looking out over one hundred

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<v Speaker 3>convex mirrors, all staring back at him. One of Gutenberg's

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<v Speaker 3>investors dies, oh man, could have been plague, could have

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<v Speaker 3>been anything.

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<v Speaker 2>Fourteen thirties, You could die of anything at any time.

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<v Speaker 2>And the investor's family, the investor's family, the guy who

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<v Speaker 2>has died, His family sues Gutenberg over whatever, over that

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<v Speaker 2>guy's stake.

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<v Speaker 4>In the business.

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<v Speaker 3>Come on act of God.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know what the details are. I think

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<v Speaker 2>Gutenberg wins. But there is this really interesting, just kind

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<v Speaker 2>of enticing detail mystery in the lawsuit, and it's just

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<v Speaker 2>a few words. And what we know from the lawsuit

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<v Speaker 2>paperwork is that Gutenberg is afraid that his trade secrets

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<v Speaker 2>are going to get out. Of course, there's you know,

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<v Speaker 2>no intellectual property as we know it in this era.

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<v Speaker 2>You try and keep your secret secret. In particular, he

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<v Speaker 2>says he is worried that visitors to the dead Man's

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<v Speaker 2>house are going to see And this part is a

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<v Speaker 2>direct quote, or at least a direct quote translated into English.

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<v Speaker 3>Four pieces lying in the press, the press, the press,

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<v Speaker 3>the printing press. We don't know, we don't know, we

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<v Speaker 3>don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>But he tells somebody to take these pieces apart so

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<v Speaker 2>nobody can tell what they are. Historians, of course, have

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<v Speaker 2>been speculating for hundreds of years about these six words.

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<v Speaker 2>Was he already working on the printing press?

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<v Speaker 3>Unclear?

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<v Speaker 2>We don't actually know what happened with the mirror business

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<v Speaker 2>for that matter. Next piece of evidence. Next time we

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<v Speaker 2>have a clear view of what's going on with Gutenberg's

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<v Speaker 2>actually ten years later, fourteen fifty. So Gutenberg, I will say,

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<v Speaker 2>as a fifty something man, is fifty ish at this point.

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<v Speaker 2>He's not a kid. Some might say is washed up,

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<v Speaker 2>some might say he's at his peak. So it's fourteen fifty.

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<v Speaker 2>Gutenberg is around fifty years old, and he makes another deal.

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<v Speaker 2>He enters into another business arrangement. This time it's with

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<v Speaker 2>a guy named Johann fuoh Ho, and Foust agreed to

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<v Speaker 2>lend Gutenberg eight hundred guilders at six percent interest, collateralized

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<v Speaker 2>by the apparatus sparatus. We're getting excited, Oh, apparatus, I

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<v Speaker 2>like this. Out of that, it's like he has a

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<v Speaker 2>code name das apparatus. Sorry to all our German speakers.

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<v Speaker 2>So eight hundred guilders is a lot of money. It's

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<v Speaker 2>enough to buy one hundred oxen or four houses at

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<v Speaker 2>These figures, by the way, come from a book called Gutenberg,

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<v Speaker 2>A Life in Books by Eric Marshall White, which is

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<v Speaker 2>a good book, a really helpful book. It's relatively recent

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<v Speaker 2>and it's really careful. It's a really careful biography of Gutenberg.

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<v Speaker 2>So it was really helpful in kind of untangling the

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<v Speaker 2>myth from what we know. So okay, so they make

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<v Speaker 2>this deal. In two years later, Foust makes another investment,

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<v Speaker 2>agrees to put in three hundred more guilders right away,

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<v Speaker 2>up to eight hundred more overall. And here we know

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<v Speaker 2>from the kind of documentary evidence that we'll get to

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<v Speaker 2>that this is explicitly for the work of the books.

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<v Speaker 3>This is the work of the books. It's happening, and

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<v Speaker 3>so there he is.

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<v Speaker 2>If we zoom out now, like we're right in the documents,

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<v Speaker 2>really in the in the micro, if we zoom out

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<v Speaker 2>to the macro for a sec it's interesting to think,

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<v Speaker 2>why why is why? Why are they bringing a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of money into this.

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<v Speaker 3>We don't have the aha moment, the big surprise story

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<v Speaker 3>where you know he was I don't know, you left

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<v Speaker 3>some type somewhere and his wife sat on it, and

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<v Speaker 3>she gets up and he sees the impression there, yes, right,

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<v Speaker 3>Or he falls in some inc and there happens to

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<v Speaker 3>be a little coin on top of the inca that

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<v Speaker 3>gets on his shirts and he thinks, ah.

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<v Speaker 2>We do know this, we do know this. Demand for

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<v Speaker 2>books was really high in Europe at this point for

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<v Speaker 2>some interesting reasons and kind of varied social and economic reasons.

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<v Speaker 2>So and political actually, so you have governments are becoming

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<v Speaker 2>more of a thing, right, It's not just kings occasionally

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<v Speaker 2>going to war. You're having kind of bureaucrats, sort of

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<v Speaker 2>modern governmental functions emerging. And for that you need people

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<v Speaker 2>who are literate, who have gone to school and read

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<v Speaker 2>books to learn how to read.

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<v Speaker 3>So there is demand for books.

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<v Speaker 2>You have the Renaissance getting going in Italy by this point,

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<v Speaker 2>and all the rich guys in Italy want to build

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<v Speaker 2>their libraries of books from classical antiquity. There's actually this

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<v Speaker 2>little story that I love of a businessman in Florence,

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<v Speaker 2>a guy named Vespasiano di Bistici.

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<v Speaker 3>One more time.

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<v Speaker 2>I love it, Vespasiano Dibistici, that's the name Babistici. I

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<v Speaker 2>believe he started out as a paper merchant, but he

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<v Speaker 2>winds up creating kind of like what to me seems

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<v Speaker 2>like a book factory in the fourteen forties, no doctor

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<v Speaker 2>without a printing press. So what happens is Cosimo di Medici,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, of the Florentine Medici, decides he needs his library,

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<v Speaker 2>his personal library, and he goes to the Bistichi and

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<v Speaker 2>Bistici has like fifty five scribes writing for him, like

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<v Speaker 2>you know, copying out manuscripts for Cosimo. And these fifty

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<v Speaker 2>five guys create something like two hundred books in two years.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's basically like if you round it to fifty,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it takes a guy six months to write

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<v Speaker 2>a manuscript, huh. And of course these are beautiful whatever,

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<v Speaker 2>but like that's a lot of labor.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And that's a lot of money for each book,

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<v Speaker 3>and a lot of money for each book.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, there is something making books cheaper, and that is paper.

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<v Speaker 3>Paper.

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<v Speaker 2>I presume Cosimo's books would have been on parchment, which

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<v Speaker 2>is what you know, they had been using in Europe

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<v Speaker 2>for a long time and it was still the high

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<v Speaker 2>class thing. And paper is profoundly cheaper than parchment. Parchment,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, made from animal skins, costs a lot to

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<v Speaker 2>grow an animal to make the parchment. And paper has

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<v Speaker 2>been around in Asia for quite a long time by

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<v Speaker 2>this point, but it has recently come to Europe and

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<v Speaker 2>has become sort of industrialized, right, And the availability of

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<v Speaker 2>paper is profound for the book business because when a

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<v Speaker 2>scribe is writing a book on parchment, the parchment is

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<v Speaker 2>a huge chunk of the cost, maybe most of the cost,

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<v Speaker 2>but once you have paper, almost all of the cost

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<v Speaker 2>of making the book is the cost of the labor,

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<v Speaker 2>the cost of the scribes time.

0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:45.400
<v Speaker 3>This is a classic business situation, right. You have a

0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:48.400
<v Speaker 3>high demand for a product, and the demand is going up.

0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:51.400
<v Speaker 3>The thing that you use to make the products, the input,

0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.520
<v Speaker 3>the expensive input, is getting cheaper with paper, and so

0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:59.120
<v Speaker 3>what you are left with is a bottleneck, a low

0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:02.720
<v Speaker 3>productivity part of the process, and that is the scribes.

0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.640
<v Speaker 3>And so we could talk about, oh, was it an insight?

0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:09.120
<v Speaker 3>Did Gutenberg see something that no one else saw? Really,

0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:11.920
<v Speaker 3>there were economic pressures. Somebody was going to do that,

0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:15.520
<v Speaker 3>because it's obvious when you have a bottleneck, a very

0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:19.880
<v Speaker 3>expensive bottleneck in the process, you should try to automate that.

0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:22.200
<v Speaker 3>And there was printing in the world.

0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:26.040
<v Speaker 2>Woodblock printing had been used for hundreds of years in Asia,

0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:29.240
<v Speaker 2>and it was it was in use in Europe somewhat.

0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:29.680
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:33.400
<v Speaker 2>Obviously, you carve sort of a single pages worth of

0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.880
<v Speaker 2>typically an image, sometimes some words into a woodblock. But

0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.240
<v Speaker 2>of course it's static, right, you got your block. You

0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:40.560
<v Speaker 2>can print one page, but that's it.

0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:42.480
<v Speaker 3>We've all done this with potatoes when we were a kid.

0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:45.360
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it's that movable type, which is you know, as

0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:47.440
<v Speaker 2>we know, what he's going to invent is way more dynamic,

0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.800
<v Speaker 2>way better. And by this time, by the mid fourteen hundreds,

0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:55.160
<v Speaker 2>movable type had been invented also in Asia. In Korea

0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:59.000
<v Speaker 2>they had even used metal types. But both in China

0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:03.240
<v Speaker 2>and Korea at the time they used pictograms. Each word

0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:04.560
<v Speaker 2>was its own character.

0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.880
<v Speaker 3>So you'd need thousands of these little things in order

0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:08.880
<v Speaker 3>to have a.

0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Book to have a book, right, much less practical than

0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:13.679
<v Speaker 2>when you have an alphabet, and you can do whatever

0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.160
<v Speaker 2>your upper case in your lower case and dozens. The

0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.760
<v Speaker 2>order of magnitude is dozens, and you can print anything.

0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:23.000
<v Speaker 2>And so there is this question. Was Gutenberg copying an

0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.720
<v Speaker 2>Asian press? It doesn't seem like it. There's no evidence

0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:29.520
<v Speaker 2>that he knew that people in Europe knew, you know,

0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:31.840
<v Speaker 2>in any kind of a real way about these presses

0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:35.280
<v Speaker 2>in Asia. It seems like when Gutenberg is doing this

0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:40.280
<v Speaker 2>work around fourteen fifty, he's working from first principles.

0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:41.680
<v Speaker 3>And we know, you know, he.

0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:45.880
<v Speaker 2>Had done some kind of work related to goldsmithing. His

0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.560
<v Speaker 2>dad was affiliated with the Mint, so maybe he knew

0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:52.200
<v Speaker 2>something about the way coins were made. We know he's

0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:56.000
<v Speaker 2>like a hustler, you know, he's entrepreneurial. And it seems

0:14:56.080 --> 0:15:00.240
<v Speaker 2>like Gutenberg on his own invented or invented for Europe

0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:06.000
<v Speaker 2>the movable type printing press, arguably the most important invention

0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.720
<v Speaker 2>ever to come out of Europe. Up there, mean want

0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:11.479
<v Speaker 2>the croissant, The steam engine.

0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.840
<v Speaker 3>Oh, the steam engine. Of course, internal combustion huge.

0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:16.600
<v Speaker 2>So there were a few other biggies, but one of

0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.800
<v Speaker 2>the biggies Fondue, but certainly one of the biggies. The

0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.640
<v Speaker 2>earliest image we have of press is not of Gutenberg's

0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:25.680
<v Speaker 2>press in particular, but it's not that long after. It's

0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:30.320
<v Speaker 2>from about fifty years later. It's this form of picture

0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:34.040
<v Speaker 2>that was popular at the time called the dance macabre.

0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:37.720
<v Speaker 2>You have pictures of people in everyday life and then

0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:41.720
<v Speaker 2>you have death kind of dancing through I guess to

0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.360
<v Speaker 2>remind you that everybody's going to die. Maybe they're taking

0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:48.800
<v Speaker 2>away these people, yeah, Memento Moury. And so in this

0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.880
<v Speaker 2>image you can see like a Gutenberg ish press.

0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:53.320
<v Speaker 3>Are you looking at it?

0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:53.640
<v Speaker 5>Yeah?

0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:56.800
<v Speaker 3>There are these kind of skeleton looking dudes. Yeah, and

0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:59.560
<v Speaker 3>what's death? Those are death? Yeah, I got that. And

0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.160
<v Speaker 3>one of them has his hand on the person who's

0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:04.240
<v Speaker 3>picking out the type, who's putting the type too, right.

0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.240
<v Speaker 2>They call that guy the compositor, right, So for each

0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:08.840
<v Speaker 2>page he arranges the letters, and the letters are backwards, right,

0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:10.080
<v Speaker 2>you arrange it all backwards.

0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:12.360
<v Speaker 3>And there's a guy who's doing the actual press, which

0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:14.360
<v Speaker 3>looks like one of those things where you pull the

0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:16.560
<v Speaker 3>lever and it goes down like maybe you'd use to

0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:18.960
<v Speaker 3>squeeze olive oil or something. Yes, they had used presses

0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:20.280
<v Speaker 3>like this, and you're up for a long time.

0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:20.600
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:24.200
<v Speaker 3>And there's another skeleton dude like touching that man. That's amazing.

0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:25.440
<v Speaker 3>And that's basically it.

0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:25.720
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:29.880
<v Speaker 2>The press is actually simple in its way, right, he's

0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:35.080
<v Speaker 2>putting together these different things, but it's not that complicated.

0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:39.080
<v Speaker 2>And that raises this question in my mind, right, which

0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:45.600
<v Speaker 2>is we've talked before about simultaneous invention. It seems like

0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.440
<v Speaker 2>all the big inventions that we've talked about, it is

0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:53.520
<v Speaker 2>really not ultimately like one guy figuring it out. You know, well, Edison,

0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:55.240
<v Speaker 2>we talked about it early on in the Edison and

0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:57.560
<v Speaker 2>the Movies story. Lots of people were trying to figure

0:16:57.600 --> 0:16:59.800
<v Speaker 2>out movies. Photography was out there. It was clear somebody

0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:02.239
<v Speaker 2>who was going to figure out movies or telephone. Famously,

0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:05.320
<v Speaker 2>like literally people racing to the patent office to get

0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:11.040
<v Speaker 2>the first patent. I mean even calculus, calculus right, Leibnitz

0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:11.520
<v Speaker 2>and Newton.

0:17:12.159 --> 0:17:15.320
<v Speaker 3>And the reason of course for simultaneous invention is what

0:17:15.360 --> 0:17:17.640
<v Speaker 3>we talked about a little bit earlier. There is the need.

0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:20.320
<v Speaker 3>You know, technology has come up to a certain point

0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:22.560
<v Speaker 3>and people are using that as a launching pad for

0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:24.639
<v Speaker 3>something else. And so it is natural when people are

0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:27.000
<v Speaker 3>trying to solve the same problem, they know about the

0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.439
<v Speaker 3>same information out there in the world, they're going to

0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:30.639
<v Speaker 3>come up with a new solution.

0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:32.960
<v Speaker 2>And yet that doesn't happen in this case. Right like

0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:37.040
<v Speaker 2>there is demand for books, there is paper, and nobody

0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:39.640
<v Speaker 2>else in Europe does this. Like that seems pretty clear,

0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:41.960
<v Speaker 2>and so I was singing, why is this too much

0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:46.280
<v Speaker 2>plague always a good answer for this era. I have

0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.280
<v Speaker 2>an idea, and my idea is, you know, if you

0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.960
<v Speaker 2>think about these other periods we've talked about the eighteen hundreds,

0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:58.879
<v Speaker 2>certainly the nineteen hundreds, the even the seventeen hundreds, everybody's

0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:02.280
<v Speaker 2>reading what everybody else is doing. There are journals and books,

0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:04.600
<v Speaker 2>and you know, in the eighteen hundreds there's a magazine

0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.480
<v Speaker 2>printing all the new patents that Thomas Edison is reading.

0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.120
<v Speaker 2>To keep up on things, what you need for these things.

0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:11.040
<v Speaker 3>Is a printing press.

0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:14.560
<v Speaker 2>Uh, you need a printing press to know what everybody

0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:18.120
<v Speaker 2>else is working on. And so the reason maybe I'm

0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:20.240
<v Speaker 2>making this up that Gutenberg is the only one to

0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:23.119
<v Speaker 2>invent it is it hasn't been invented yet, so not

0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:25.680
<v Speaker 2>everybody knows everything all the time the way we do.

0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:27.879
<v Speaker 3>Once you have a printing press, I think, I think

0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:30.399
<v Speaker 3>that's a great idea because what would it take to

0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:33.480
<v Speaker 3>spread this. You'd have to write letters to people. But

0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:35.159
<v Speaker 3>even then not everybody who how to.

0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.680
<v Speaker 2>Write letters do become a thing, right and science letters

0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.119
<v Speaker 2>are a big deal. But the journal, you know, the

0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:43.760
<v Speaker 2>printed journal is a much more powerful tool than letters.

0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:48.080
<v Speaker 2>It's a thought in any case. In any case, Gutenberg

0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:51.119
<v Speaker 2>now has his press. What does he print first?

0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:54.919
<v Speaker 3>The Bible? Not the Bible? Okay, too expensive maybe, right,

0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.600
<v Speaker 3>it's long. The Bible is long, and it has to

0:18:57.640 --> 0:18:59.680
<v Speaker 3>start there, right, start. You don't start with the Word

0:18:59.680 --> 0:18:59.960
<v Speaker 3>of God.

0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:02.600
<v Speaker 2>You love nightmare also you know, yes and yes and

0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:03.479
<v Speaker 2>also high stakes.

0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:04.239
<v Speaker 3>You want to get it right.

0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:08.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So he starts with things that are simpler, cheaper, shorter,

0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:13.200
<v Speaker 2>a German poem, a grammar textbook for last, and then

0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:18.080
<v Speaker 2>this is my favorite sort of pre Bible printing work

0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:22.239
<v Speaker 2>that Gutenberg does, comes around fourteen fifty three, so not

0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:25.680
<v Speaker 2>that long into this project, when there is actually this

0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:28.840
<v Speaker 2>world historical event that's going to be good news for

0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:34.879
<v Speaker 2>Gutenberg's printing business, and that is the Sultan Mehmed the

0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:40.240
<v Speaker 2>Second captures Constantinople. Big news, big news in the religion.

0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:45.440
<v Speaker 2>Teen emperor is decapitated, and now the Catholic Church needs

0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.880
<v Speaker 2>money to fight the Sultan. How does the church raise

0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:49.520
<v Speaker 2>money in.

0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:51.639
<v Speaker 3>Fourteen fifty three indulgences?

0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:55.679
<v Speaker 2>Indulgences, They sell indulgences and you know you know this

0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:59.760
<v Speaker 2>from whatever from school. Yeah, if you give money to

0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:03.880
<v Speaker 2>the church, they will remove the punishment that you owe.

0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:06.160
<v Speaker 3>For your sins. They would also allow you to get

0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:09.120
<v Speaker 3>your relatives out of purgatory if they had died. Uh huh,

0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.280
<v Speaker 3>that makes sense. That's the little extra, guess cost extra,

0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:12.720
<v Speaker 3>but sure.

0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:15.240
<v Speaker 2>What I didn't realize until I was working on this

0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:19.960
<v Speaker 2>show is indulgences were physical things. There was an indulgence

0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:23.439
<v Speaker 2>which was basically like a nice receipt, a nice receipt

0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.960
<v Speaker 2>often written out on vellum of fancy, like a very

0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:31.719
<v Speaker 2>high grade parchment made from calfskin. And this fact that

0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:36.680
<v Speaker 2>the receipt part of the indulgence thing becomes important when

0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:41.119
<v Speaker 2>the Sultan captures Constantinople, because the Church suddenly needs to

0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:46.640
<v Speaker 2>sell lots of indulgences. But they have a labor problem.

0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:49.240
<v Speaker 3>It's the problem we were talking about before, right, There's

0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:53.880
<v Speaker 3>just not enough scribes to write out all the indulgences

0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:56.920
<v Speaker 3>that you need to sell right now, plus so much sin.

0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:01.439
<v Speaker 3>The demand was huge, The demand is huge. Who among us?

0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:07.639
<v Speaker 2>And now here comes Johannes Gutenberg with a solution to

0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:10.800
<v Speaker 2>your problem. You know, your grace, how many do you need?

0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:12.800
<v Speaker 2>I'll just crank come out for you.

0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:16.040
<v Speaker 3>This was also a solution to Gutenberg's problem because he

0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:21.240
<v Speaker 3>had just enlisted the richest customer on planet Earth, or

0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:24.080
<v Speaker 3>one of them at least. Yes, Catholic, definitely a good

0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:26.880
<v Speaker 3>customer to have. And you know, on indulgence, I believe

0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:29.160
<v Speaker 3>it's a single page, right, so you said it once,

0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:31.920
<v Speaker 3>and you know, the printing business, you want to make

0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:34.720
<v Speaker 3>as many copies and sell as many copies of each

0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:37.399
<v Speaker 3>thing as you can, so it's generic. They don't have

0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:38.960
<v Speaker 3>the different ones for the different sins.

0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:42.000
<v Speaker 2>I guess over time they're different ones. But the basic

0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:44.479
<v Speaker 2>thing is that there's a blank for the name of

0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:46.800
<v Speaker 2>the buyer. There's a blank for the name of the buyer,

0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:51.960
<v Speaker 2>and so he cranks out all these indulgences white that

0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:56.080
<v Speaker 2>the guy who wrote that book that I mentioned says, they.

0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:57.320
<v Speaker 3>Go out by the wagon load.

0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:00.480
<v Speaker 2>The money, I guess was supposed to go to defend

0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:05.600
<v Speaker 2>Cypress Cypress, but apparently none of it, or almost none

0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:09.120
<v Speaker 2>of it ever got to Cyprus got siphoned off along

0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:12.119
<v Speaker 2>the way. But whatever, that's not Gutenberg's problem, truly, he

0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:12.600
<v Speaker 2>got paid.

0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:14.520
<v Speaker 3>Let's do the Biggie, Let's do the Bible.

0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:39.320
<v Speaker 4>We'll do it after the break, Robert.

0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:41.600
<v Speaker 2>We're back from the break, and it is October of

0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:47.000
<v Speaker 2>fourteen fifty four. We're in Frankfurt at a diet.

0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:49.119
<v Speaker 3>A religious meeting of some sort of meeting of the cat.

0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:50.800
<v Speaker 3>Not a conclave, but a diet.

0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:53.040
<v Speaker 2>It's not as big as a conclave, I guess. And

0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:59.919
<v Speaker 2>we're with an Italian bishop named Aeneas Silvius Piccolomini. Piccolomini

0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:05.800
<v Speaker 2>sees something that blows his mind. He sees some preliminary

0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:12.359
<v Speaker 2>pages from a printed Bible, from what's going to be

0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:15.280
<v Speaker 2>the Gutenberg Bible. And we know this because he wrote

0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:19.119
<v Speaker 2>a letter to a cardinal about it. He describes a

0:23:19.640 --> 0:23:23.280
<v Speaker 2>miraculous man who he encountered, who I hope was Gutenberg,

0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:24.960
<v Speaker 2>but it could been somebody who worked with Gutenberg, we

0:23:25.000 --> 0:23:28.960
<v Speaker 2>don't know. And he describes for the cardinal what the

0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:31.720
<v Speaker 2>pages of this Bible were like, give it to us.

0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:35.280
<v Speaker 3>He said. They were exceedingly clean and correct in their

0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:39.080
<v Speaker 3>script and without error, which your Grace could read effortlessly

0:23:39.240 --> 0:23:42.400
<v Speaker 3>even without glasses. I mean something. I know. I appreciate

0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:45.800
<v Speaker 3>that large print. I learned from numerous witnesses that one

0:23:45.840 --> 0:23:48.919
<v Speaker 3>hundred and fifty eight copies had been completed, although some

0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:51.320
<v Speaker 3>others say the number is one hundred and eighty. I

0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:53.360
<v Speaker 3>shall try if possible to buy a copy on your

0:23:53.400 --> 0:23:55.720
<v Speaker 3>behalf and have it brought here. But I fear it

0:23:55.720 --> 0:23:58.399
<v Speaker 3>will not be possible, both because of the distance and

0:23:58.440 --> 0:24:01.200
<v Speaker 3>because they say that ready buyers had all been found

0:24:01.400 --> 0:24:05.160
<v Speaker 3>even before the volumes had been finished. It's a hit.

0:24:05.359 --> 0:24:08.760
<v Speaker 2>It's a hit that seems promising, right. It is wild

0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:10.679
<v Speaker 2>to think of a guy seeing what's going to be

0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:13.760
<v Speaker 2>the Gutenberg Bible. Do I remember that you went to

0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:15.480
<v Speaker 2>see to see one at the New York Public Library?

0:24:15.560 --> 0:24:17.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, for Planet Money. I went to It was on

0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:21.240
<v Speaker 3>display in they have a special display case for these

0:24:21.280 --> 0:24:23.720
<v Speaker 3>kind of things. There's also one at the Morgan Library,

0:24:23.760 --> 0:24:26.440
<v Speaker 3>I should say JP. Morgan bought one, no big surprise,

0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:31.720
<v Speaker 3>and I recall it was much larger than I thought

0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:33.480
<v Speaker 3>it was going to be. It was probably the largest

0:24:33.480 --> 0:24:35.080
<v Speaker 3>Bible I'd ever seen. It looked like one of those

0:24:35.119 --> 0:24:37.679
<v Speaker 3>giant dictionaries that you have to put on a stand.

0:24:38.200 --> 0:24:40.200
<v Speaker 3>And the other thing I remember about it is that

0:24:40.240 --> 0:24:45.359
<v Speaker 3>the margins were very Why it was just it was

0:24:45.400 --> 0:24:49.320
<v Speaker 3>these these columns, these two columns, and the print was

0:24:49.359 --> 0:24:53.679
<v Speaker 3>that old fashioned sort of Gothic Germany, very German looking.

0:24:54.080 --> 0:24:58.360
<v Speaker 3>It was very orderly. I will say, these large margins

0:24:58.400 --> 0:25:04.240
<v Speaker 3>these very straight columns and this very dense writing. Did

0:25:04.320 --> 0:25:06.560
<v Speaker 3>was there color in the part that you looked at, Yeah,

0:25:06.600 --> 0:25:09.720
<v Speaker 3>there's there were some color that clearly someone had filled

0:25:09.720 --> 0:25:12.479
<v Speaker 3>in or painted right right. Yeah, they actually left blank

0:25:12.600 --> 0:25:14.880
<v Speaker 3>like the where there would be a big colored first

0:25:15.000 --> 0:25:17.360
<v Speaker 3>letter at the start of a chapter or a paragraph

0:25:17.440 --> 0:25:20.040
<v Speaker 3>or something. They actually didn't print that on the press.

0:25:20.040 --> 0:25:22.960
<v Speaker 3>They left it to be hand inscribed.

0:25:23.280 --> 0:25:23.560
<v Speaker 4>One off.

0:25:23.560 --> 0:25:27.960
<v Speaker 3>The scribes were afraid of the printing press, and then

0:25:28.040 --> 0:25:30.640
<v Speaker 3>saw that in fact they could do their favorite part.

0:25:30.680 --> 0:25:32.920
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's no fun to print every little letter,

0:25:33.119 --> 0:25:35.840
<v Speaker 3>but to make the giant g with the flowers and

0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:37.959
<v Speaker 3>the colors. They must have loved that, and now they

0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:39.240
<v Speaker 3>could do one hundred and eighty.

0:25:39.119 --> 0:25:41.200
<v Speaker 2>Maybe Gutenberg was like, no, no, I'm not going to

0:25:41.520 --> 0:25:43.520
<v Speaker 2>automate your work out of existence. I'm just going to

0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:45.399
<v Speaker 2>take away the drudgery. I'll leave you to do the

0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:46.480
<v Speaker 2>creative fun part.

0:25:46.520 --> 0:25:47.760
<v Speaker 3>It's a compliment familiar.

0:25:48.119 --> 0:25:50.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so you've described the book very well. It's remarkable

0:25:50.600 --> 0:25:54.919
<v Speaker 2>how many still exist there. I believe twenty one complete

0:25:54.920 --> 0:25:58.720
<v Speaker 2>copies still in existence, which is a very large percentage

0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:01.000
<v Speaker 2>given how long ago it was and how it just

0:26:01.000 --> 0:26:02.280
<v Speaker 2>happened In Europe since then.

0:26:02.520 --> 0:26:04.000
<v Speaker 3>It shows you how valuable, how.

0:26:03.960 --> 0:26:06.159
<v Speaker 2>Valuable they were, and how special they must have seemed

0:26:06.160 --> 0:26:10.800
<v Speaker 2>even then. Right, One fun business detail about the printing

0:26:10.800 --> 0:26:14.479
<v Speaker 2>of the book itself. It's referred to typically as the

0:26:14.520 --> 0:26:17.480
<v Speaker 2>forty two line Gutenberg Bible because they are forty two

0:26:17.520 --> 0:26:20.480
<v Speaker 2>lines per page, and as you say, it seems quite

0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:23.800
<v Speaker 2>spacious and like not crammed. In the first few pages.

0:26:23.920 --> 0:26:26.840
<v Speaker 2>They were actually doing forty lines of page, and so

0:26:27.800 --> 0:26:31.080
<v Speaker 2>presumably they must have figured out like, oh, we could

0:26:31.080 --> 0:26:34.800
<v Speaker 2>do two more lines per page, and that means less paper,

0:26:35.080 --> 0:26:35.760
<v Speaker 2>less parchment.

0:26:35.960 --> 0:26:37.760
<v Speaker 3>That's just profit right there. By the time you get

0:26:37.760 --> 0:26:42.120
<v Speaker 3>to Revelations, it's tiny, tiny, tiny writing. No it isn't.

0:26:42.359 --> 0:26:45.600
<v Speaker 2>So he's cranking them out. He's Gutenberg is making the

0:26:45.640 --> 0:26:49.119
<v Speaker 2>Gutenberg Bible. And there's this great detail. So some of

0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:51.719
<v Speaker 2>the Bibles were printed on parchment, some on paper. And

0:26:51.800 --> 0:26:54.600
<v Speaker 2>there's a belief, a kind of a theory based I

0:26:54.640 --> 0:26:57.879
<v Speaker 2>believe on the different watermarks on the different pieces of paper,

0:26:57.880 --> 0:27:00.800
<v Speaker 2>which I love, like scholarly work like this, a belief

0:27:00.840 --> 0:27:03.320
<v Speaker 2>that at some point Gutenberg might have had six different

0:27:03.359 --> 0:27:06.719
<v Speaker 2>presses going just kind of a factory. Right, he's becoming

0:27:06.920 --> 0:27:12.000
<v Speaker 2>a publisher a printer and then it feels sudden looking back,

0:27:12.040 --> 0:27:14.720
<v Speaker 2>but we don't know. Something goes wrong.

0:27:15.080 --> 0:27:15.879
<v Speaker 3>There's a big problem.

0:27:15.880 --> 0:27:17.440
<v Speaker 2>It's going to happen right now, and that is this

0:27:18.400 --> 0:27:21.280
<v Speaker 2>Johann Fust, the guy who put up the money to

0:27:21.280 --> 0:27:24.440
<v Speaker 2>get the project going investor decides he wants.

0:27:24.240 --> 0:27:24.840
<v Speaker 4>His money back.

0:27:25.680 --> 0:27:27.200
<v Speaker 3>We don't know why there was fight.

0:27:27.320 --> 0:27:30.159
<v Speaker 2>Maybe maybe Fust needs the money for something else, but

0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:35.879
<v Speaker 2>we know that they wound up in court on Thursday,

0:27:36.000 --> 0:27:40.960
<v Speaker 2>November sixth, fourteen fifty five. I love court documents as

0:27:40.960 --> 0:27:43.399
<v Speaker 2>a reporter. I've always loved them. I covered cops and

0:27:43.480 --> 0:27:48.119
<v Speaker 2>courts and Bozeman, Montana twenty many years ago when I

0:27:48.160 --> 0:27:48.760
<v Speaker 2>started out.

0:27:48.880 --> 0:27:52.320
<v Speaker 3>It's amazing because we wouldn't know anything about this really.

0:27:52.480 --> 0:27:55.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and there is this one document that describes this

0:27:55.359 --> 0:28:00.120
<v Speaker 2>whole thing in detail, written by one Ulrich Helmus Perger,

0:28:00.240 --> 0:28:03.560
<v Speaker 2>cleric of the Diocese of Bamberg, notary public and laid

0:28:03.680 --> 0:28:07.200
<v Speaker 2>judge of the Holy Seed at Mainz by Imperial authority,

0:28:07.720 --> 0:28:11.879
<v Speaker 2>who wrote out this beautiful, detailed document that explains a

0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:16.200
<v Speaker 2>lot about the first printing press in Europe. The document

0:28:16.240 --> 0:28:21.200
<v Speaker 2>is called the Helmusperger Notarial Instrument. No tarial instrument is

0:28:21.240 --> 0:28:25.360
<v Speaker 2>one beautiful logword in German. And it lays this out

0:28:25.440 --> 0:28:29.400
<v Speaker 2>kind of as a story, and it starts with Feust's version.

0:28:30.200 --> 0:28:32.800
<v Speaker 2>It's like he said, he said, So Foust tells a

0:28:32.840 --> 0:28:36.439
<v Speaker 2>story like this. He says, I loaned Gutenberg eight hundred

0:28:36.480 --> 0:28:39.520
<v Speaker 2>guilders at six percent interest. And by the way, I

0:28:39.640 --> 0:28:42.560
<v Speaker 2>borrowed that money from somebody else at interest.

0:28:42.840 --> 0:28:44.440
<v Speaker 3>Oh, good job, Foust, FoST.

0:28:45.200 --> 0:28:47.400
<v Speaker 2>He's like a private credit, right. He's like, I don't know,

0:28:47.440 --> 0:28:51.160
<v Speaker 2>Apollo or something in the market today. And then Fuss says,

0:28:51.760 --> 0:28:55.120
<v Speaker 2>Gutenberg came back to me later and said, actually I

0:28:55.200 --> 0:28:57.720
<v Speaker 2>need another eight hundred guilders, so I loaned him eight

0:28:57.800 --> 0:28:58.920
<v Speaker 2>hundred more.

0:28:58.760 --> 0:29:00.880
<v Speaker 3>Which remember is a lot of money at the time.

0:29:01.120 --> 0:29:06.120
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, And now Foost is saying, I want repayment

0:29:06.240 --> 0:29:09.400
<v Speaker 2>of that sixteen hundred plus interest, which comes to over

0:29:09.760 --> 0:29:12.840
<v Speaker 2>two thousand guilders. And as you it out, like eight

0:29:12.880 --> 0:29:17.000
<v Speaker 2>hundred guilders was four houses, so two thousand there's a

0:29:17.040 --> 0:29:19.920
<v Speaker 2>lot of houses. We don't know why he's demanding the repayment,

0:29:19.960 --> 0:29:24.960
<v Speaker 2>but it's happening. Gutenberg doesn't show up at the hearing weirdly,

0:29:25.120 --> 0:29:27.680
<v Speaker 2>don't know why, but he wasn't there, but he sends

0:29:27.720 --> 0:29:33.560
<v Speaker 2>a statement which somebody reads on his behalf, and Gutenberg disputes.

0:29:33.400 --> 0:29:34.520
<v Speaker 3>A lot of what Fus says.

0:29:34.640 --> 0:29:38.880
<v Speaker 2>Unsurprisingly so at court, I guess he says, Okay, yes,

0:29:38.920 --> 0:29:44.000
<v Speaker 2>that first eight hundred guilders that was alone. But even

0:29:44.040 --> 0:29:46.680
<v Speaker 2>though the contract might say and the fine print that

0:29:46.720 --> 0:29:50.200
<v Speaker 2>at six percent interest, we actually agreed that I wasn't.

0:29:50.000 --> 0:29:51.440
<v Speaker 3>Going to pay interest on that.

0:29:52.280 --> 0:29:55.080
<v Speaker 2>Not his strongest argument, not his strongest argument. Get it

0:29:55.080 --> 0:29:58.120
<v Speaker 2>in writing, Gutenberg, come on. The second part is more interesting.

0:29:58.160 --> 0:30:00.360
<v Speaker 2>He says, the part of the money Foots put up

0:30:00.360 --> 0:30:03.600
<v Speaker 2>after that, the other eight hundred that wasn't alone. That

0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:07.120
<v Speaker 2>was investment as a partner, to share in the profit

0:30:07.240 --> 0:30:11.080
<v Speaker 2>or loss of the business. In other words, Gutenberg is saying,

0:30:11.080 --> 0:30:13.000
<v Speaker 2>in our language today, he wouldn't have said it this way,

0:30:13.040 --> 0:30:15.080
<v Speaker 2>that first eight hundred was debt, but the second eight

0:30:15.160 --> 0:30:16.000
<v Speaker 2>hundred was equity.

0:30:16.440 --> 0:30:17.400
<v Speaker 3>That's the he said.

0:30:17.440 --> 0:30:17.800
<v Speaker 4>He said.

0:30:17.840 --> 0:30:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Then kind of third beat of the document, there is

0:30:19.920 --> 0:30:22.000
<v Speaker 2>a sworn affidavit from Fust.

0:30:22.120 --> 0:30:23.720
<v Speaker 3>Remember who was there in the room.

0:30:24.280 --> 0:30:26.600
<v Speaker 2>In this part, Fust actually seems to back off his

0:30:26.680 --> 0:30:28.440
<v Speaker 2>original claim a little. You know, we don't know what

0:30:28.520 --> 0:30:30.840
<v Speaker 2>was said in the room, but it seems like in

0:30:30.880 --> 0:30:33.640
<v Speaker 2>the course of the hearing, maybe he reduced his claim

0:30:34.080 --> 0:30:37.600
<v Speaker 2>because in this affidavit he basically says, Okay, Gutenberg should

0:30:37.600 --> 0:30:40.080
<v Speaker 2>go back through his accounts, figure out how much of

0:30:40.120 --> 0:30:43.280
<v Speaker 2>the money that I gave him actually went into this

0:30:43.400 --> 0:30:46.840
<v Speaker 2>printing business, and he should pay me back with interest

0:30:47.360 --> 0:30:50.280
<v Speaker 2>for whatever part of the money did not go into

0:30:50.320 --> 0:30:52.120
<v Speaker 2>the printing business. If he took my money and spent

0:30:52.240 --> 0:30:54.000
<v Speaker 2>on something else, come on, he's got to pay me

0:30:54.040 --> 0:30:55.840
<v Speaker 2>back with interest for that. So Robert, actually we have

0:30:55.880 --> 0:30:58.160
<v Speaker 2>it in Fousse words translated into English.

0:30:57.840 --> 0:31:00.760
<v Speaker 3>Give it to a nice on the borrowed money which

0:31:00.800 --> 0:31:04.680
<v Speaker 3>he Gutenberg received and did not use for our common undertaking.

0:31:04.840 --> 0:31:07.760
<v Speaker 3>I demand from him the interest due under the terms

0:31:07.760 --> 0:31:08.400
<v Speaker 3>of the verdict.

0:31:08.600 --> 0:31:11.280
<v Speaker 2>And the court basically seems to agree with this, which

0:31:11.320 --> 0:31:13.200
<v Speaker 2>I have to say, seems reasonable, right. It does seem

0:31:13.240 --> 0:31:15.600
<v Speaker 2>like a very common sense thing. And the court sends

0:31:15.640 --> 0:31:20.040
<v Speaker 2>Gutenberg back to produce evidence on what he actually spent

0:31:20.200 --> 0:31:21.760
<v Speaker 2>on the project. I guess they're saying, like, show.

0:31:21.640 --> 0:31:24.320
<v Speaker 3>Us your books and if in fact you took his

0:31:24.480 --> 0:31:26.560
<v Speaker 3>mond existed, Ye, the.

0:31:26.560 --> 0:31:29.800
<v Speaker 2>Ledgers, Yes, books existed. The Codex is the book, and

0:31:29.840 --> 0:31:31.560
<v Speaker 2>it is a useful technology. But it's been around for

0:31:31.560 --> 0:31:33.120
<v Speaker 2>a long time at this point. Otherwise you got to

0:31:33.200 --> 0:31:35.920
<v Speaker 2>use a scroll much less convenient. Let me tell you

0:31:35.960 --> 0:31:38.160
<v Speaker 2>from experience, So a little burnt'szod joke.

0:31:39.000 --> 0:31:39.360
<v Speaker 4>I see.

0:31:39.520 --> 0:31:43.120
<v Speaker 2>So the court says, Gutenberg, go back, look at your records,

0:31:43.280 --> 0:31:45.080
<v Speaker 2>pay him with interest for whatever you didn't put into

0:31:45.080 --> 0:31:48.800
<v Speaker 2>the project. And that's the end of what we know

0:31:49.040 --> 0:31:53.920
<v Speaker 2>from this document. It ends there, which is interesting given

0:31:54.200 --> 0:31:57.920
<v Speaker 2>the myth that has arisen around this part of the story.

0:31:57.960 --> 0:32:02.400
<v Speaker 2>The myth is basically, the evil financier Foost drove the

0:32:02.440 --> 0:32:06.840
<v Speaker 2>noble and brilliant inventor Gutenberg into bankruptcy. Everybody will say

0:32:06.840 --> 0:32:09.080
<v Speaker 2>they made him go bankrupt. Ye, just like people talk

0:32:09.120 --> 0:32:13.120
<v Speaker 2>about private equity and private credit today. Yeah, fair, fair,

0:32:13.400 --> 0:32:16.160
<v Speaker 2>and yeah maybe for similar reasons, right, Like it's a

0:32:16.160 --> 0:32:20.719
<v Speaker 2>classic villain. Financiers are classic villains. Now, there is no

0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:24.640
<v Speaker 2>evidence that Gutenberg went bankrupt, and in fact, he kept

0:32:24.680 --> 0:32:28.920
<v Speaker 2>printing things after this. My favorite is he printed a

0:32:29.040 --> 0:32:33.440
<v Speaker 2>wall calendar for doctors. Why do doctors need a wall calendar?

0:32:33.680 --> 0:32:36.120
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you. In the fourteen whatever I think it

0:32:36.160 --> 0:32:39.560
<v Speaker 2>was sixties or so, mid fourteen hundreds, it tells you,

0:32:39.600 --> 0:32:42.280
<v Speaker 2>based on astrology, when is the best time to do

0:32:42.360 --> 0:32:45.560
<v Speaker 2>your bloodletting for the year. There were bad days and

0:32:45.640 --> 0:32:48.080
<v Speaker 2>good days. There's a goodness to drain the blood of

0:32:48.120 --> 0:32:49.600
<v Speaker 2>your patients to help them.

0:32:49.720 --> 0:32:50.720
<v Speaker 3>I'm doing it to them.

0:32:51.520 --> 0:32:55.040
<v Speaker 2>Of course, he prints some more indulgences, always a good business.

0:32:55.120 --> 0:32:58.320
<v Speaker 2>He may have printed this giant Latin dictionary. He definitely

0:32:58.360 --> 0:33:02.120
<v Speaker 2>didn't print anything as far as we know, as beautiful

0:33:02.320 --> 0:33:05.600
<v Speaker 2>as the Bible. Maybe because he didn't have access to

0:33:05.680 --> 0:33:06.520
<v Speaker 2>capital anymore.

0:33:06.560 --> 0:33:08.440
<v Speaker 3>But he was he was, you know, he was so negad.

0:33:08.480 --> 0:33:12.400
<v Speaker 3>But it is a little sad, right, I mean away,

0:33:12.440 --> 0:33:16.880
<v Speaker 3>the man who invents the most amazing invention in Europe

0:33:16.920 --> 0:33:20.760
<v Speaker 3>at the time is reduced to, you know, basically running

0:33:20.760 --> 0:33:24.760
<v Speaker 3>a Kinko's in Harrisburg. Right. He's doing calendars, he's doing flyers,

0:33:25.400 --> 0:33:28.080
<v Speaker 3>this sort of thing, buy one, get one free. It

0:33:28.520 --> 0:33:32.480
<v Speaker 3>doesn't seem as miraculous. It just seems like a little

0:33:32.520 --> 0:33:33.160
<v Speaker 3>business he has.

0:33:33.240 --> 0:33:36.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, in a way, as a story, you want him

0:33:36.600 --> 0:33:42.320
<v Speaker 2>to either have wild success or crushing failure. Not personally,

0:33:42.360 --> 0:33:45.680
<v Speaker 2>not as human being, but just for narrative purposes. The

0:33:45.720 --> 0:33:50.880
<v Speaker 2>middle is unsatisfying. One thing that is true is Foost

0:33:51.200 --> 0:33:54.120
<v Speaker 2>the lender. I'm not gonna call him a banker, but

0:33:54.200 --> 0:33:58.160
<v Speaker 2>the lender, the financier seems to have surpassed Gutenberg in

0:33:58.200 --> 0:33:59.240
<v Speaker 2>the printing business.

0:33:59.440 --> 0:34:01.360
<v Speaker 3>Well, he's gotten some of the money back and he's

0:34:01.400 --> 0:34:02.880
<v Speaker 3>gonna invest it in something else.

0:34:02.920 --> 0:34:05.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, and furthermore, and we know this again from like

0:34:05.480 --> 0:34:07.760
<v Speaker 2>really careful scholarship, I guess we know that he got

0:34:07.800 --> 0:34:10.439
<v Speaker 2>some of the types, some of the metal letters that

0:34:10.520 --> 0:34:13.000
<v Speaker 2>had been in Gutenberg's shop, because I guess, you know,

0:34:13.040 --> 0:34:15.439
<v Speaker 2>you can match the books that he printed with what

0:34:15.480 --> 0:34:17.480
<v Speaker 2>Gutenberg had printed before, and some.

0:34:17.359 --> 0:34:20.480
<v Speaker 3>Of the letters are Gutenberg's letters. They were sort of

0:34:20.600 --> 0:34:21.359
<v Speaker 3>unique at the time.

0:34:21.480 --> 0:34:23.200
<v Speaker 2>Yes, because they were sort of unique at the time,

0:34:23.280 --> 0:34:26.880
<v Speaker 2>that's right. And you know, maybe remember that loan was

0:34:27.360 --> 0:34:30.400
<v Speaker 2>the original loan was collateralized by the apparatus, right, So

0:34:30.520 --> 0:34:33.520
<v Speaker 2>maybe these letters are him collecting on the debt. We

0:34:33.560 --> 0:34:36.359
<v Speaker 2>don't know, but that seems totally plausible to me. He

0:34:36.440 --> 0:34:40.200
<v Speaker 2>also hires a guy from a Gutenberg shop, this really

0:34:40.280 --> 0:34:41.239
<v Speaker 2>talented guy.

0:34:41.320 --> 0:34:42.960
<v Speaker 3>I guess no non competes then.

0:34:42.840 --> 0:34:43.439
<v Speaker 4>Which is good.

0:34:43.520 --> 0:34:46.680
<v Speaker 3>It's good for the proliferation of technology. I suspect the

0:34:46.680 --> 0:34:50.399
<v Speaker 3>employee walked out with a few letters in his pocket.

0:34:50.160 --> 0:34:52.920
<v Speaker 2>Right, right, Is that an exclamation mark in your pocket?

0:34:52.960 --> 0:34:54.440
<v Speaker 2>Or are you a tiny bit happy to see me.

0:34:55.760 --> 0:34:57.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if they had the exclamation mark then,

0:34:57.680 --> 0:34:59.080
<v Speaker 2>actually with.

0:34:59.000 --> 0:34:59.960
<v Speaker 3>The joke, it's a good joke.

0:35:01.120 --> 0:35:05.000
<v Speaker 2>So this this worker's name was Peter Schaeffer, I believe

0:35:05.080 --> 0:35:08.040
<v Speaker 2>is pronounced and Fust, and Schaeffer did great and maybe

0:35:08.040 --> 0:35:10.399
<v Speaker 2>Feust was a better businessman than Gutenberg, no idea.

0:35:10.480 --> 0:35:10.799
<v Speaker 3>Don't know.

0:35:11.560 --> 0:35:15.440
<v Speaker 2>They start out with this beautiful psalter a book of Psalms,

0:35:15.480 --> 0:35:18.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, and they actually printed it in multiple colors,

0:35:18.520 --> 0:35:20.080
<v Speaker 2>which must have required, you know, you got to put

0:35:20.080 --> 0:35:22.640
<v Speaker 2>the same page through multiple times and get the alignment right,

0:35:22.719 --> 0:35:26.520
<v Speaker 2>like elegant technical work. And as a business move they

0:35:26.560 --> 0:35:31.040
<v Speaker 2>do a really clever thing that Gutenberg didn't do. They

0:35:31.040 --> 0:35:34.520
<v Speaker 2>put their names in the book, just like publishers do today,

0:35:34.520 --> 0:35:37.319
<v Speaker 2>although although at greater length, Robert read to us what

0:35:37.360 --> 0:35:38.480
<v Speaker 2>they put in that book.

0:35:38.600 --> 0:35:41.040
<v Speaker 3>The present Book of the Psalms has been fashioned by

0:35:41.040 --> 0:35:43.960
<v Speaker 3>the artful invention of printing, by means of letter forms

0:35:44.000 --> 0:35:46.680
<v Speaker 3>made without the driving of the pen, and in praise

0:35:46.719 --> 0:35:49.319
<v Speaker 3>of God, it has been brought faithfully and industriously to

0:35:49.400 --> 0:35:54.480
<v Speaker 3>completion by Johann Fust, citizen of Mainz, and Peter Schaeffer

0:35:54.560 --> 0:35:59.080
<v Speaker 3>of Gernsheim, in the year of the Lord fourteen fifty seven.

0:35:59.360 --> 0:36:01.600
<v Speaker 3>It's early branding. They put their name on it. They

0:36:01.600 --> 0:36:02.920
<v Speaker 3>put their name on it. People are like, you know

0:36:02.960 --> 0:36:04.719
<v Speaker 3>what I need. I need a feust. We got to

0:36:04.760 --> 0:36:08.040
<v Speaker 3>get fous to do our next book. These guys do great.

0:36:08.080 --> 0:36:09.960
<v Speaker 3>This book does great. Their business does great.

0:36:09.960 --> 0:36:13.400
<v Speaker 2>They expand to Paris, which is home of a big university,

0:36:13.400 --> 0:36:17.880
<v Speaker 2>big book town. They're printing broadsheets. Of course, they're printing indulgences,

0:36:18.400 --> 0:36:21.840
<v Speaker 2>and they print Bibles. And their Bibles are clearly modeled

0:36:21.880 --> 0:36:25.439
<v Speaker 2>on the Gutenberg Bible because the words are the same.

0:36:25.480 --> 0:36:27.359
<v Speaker 2>And you might say, of course the words are the same.

0:36:27.560 --> 0:36:30.359
<v Speaker 2>But in the era of the manuscript, right, something as

0:36:30.400 --> 0:36:33.960
<v Speaker 2>long as a Bible manuscript, meaning people are literally writing

0:36:33.960 --> 0:36:36.600
<v Speaker 2>out every book by hand. Something as long as a Bible,

0:36:36.840 --> 0:36:39.880
<v Speaker 2>there's always going to be a few little errors, omissions,

0:36:39.920 --> 0:36:42.239
<v Speaker 2>you leave out one word, whatever, change an end to

0:36:42.320 --> 0:36:46.000
<v Speaker 2>a butt, and print changes that right print. Once you

0:36:46.160 --> 0:36:49.520
<v Speaker 2>set the press, every book that comes out of that

0:36:49.719 --> 0:36:51.040
<v Speaker 2>edition is the same.

0:36:51.080 --> 0:36:51.640
<v Speaker 3>And that is.

0:36:51.640 --> 0:36:53.560
<v Speaker 2>Actually a new thing in the world.

0:36:54.080 --> 0:36:58.280
<v Speaker 3>I mean, it becomes more like the unerring word of God.

0:36:58.520 --> 0:37:00.879
<v Speaker 3>Even though I know Gutenberg put it together, it has

0:37:00.960 --> 0:37:04.520
<v Speaker 3>that feel that this is more than the work of man.

0:37:04.719 --> 0:37:05.840
<v Speaker 3>This is something eternal.

0:37:06.320 --> 0:37:06.879
<v Speaker 4>I like that.

0:37:07.080 --> 0:37:10.440
<v Speaker 2>I believe that so fust and Schaeffer are growing, and

0:37:10.560 --> 0:37:14.200
<v Speaker 2>printing itself is grown. People who worked with Gutenberg and

0:37:14.239 --> 0:37:17.160
<v Speaker 2>with Fusen Schaeffer go to other towns, set up their shops,

0:37:17.200 --> 0:37:20.600
<v Speaker 2>and you just see this rapid spread across Europe of

0:37:20.680 --> 0:37:24.200
<v Speaker 2>printing presses in other German cities, but also in Rome

0:37:24.400 --> 0:37:28.520
<v Speaker 2>and Venice and Paris and Basel and small towns. It's

0:37:28.680 --> 0:37:32.680
<v Speaker 2>just happening fast. So there is the end of the

0:37:32.719 --> 0:37:36.040
<v Speaker 2>Gutenberg story. Of Gutenberg the man. We know that in

0:37:36.200 --> 0:37:39.719
<v Speaker 2>fourteen sixty five, when he's around sixty five years old,

0:37:40.000 --> 0:37:44.760
<v Speaker 2>the Archbishop of Mainz gives him this basically this high

0:37:44.760 --> 0:37:48.840
<v Speaker 2>status lifetime pension, and we have the formal announcement that

0:37:49.200 --> 0:37:49.799
<v Speaker 2>proclaimed it.

0:37:49.880 --> 0:37:51.040
<v Speaker 4>It read us a little of that.

0:37:50.960 --> 0:37:54.520
<v Speaker 3>From the Archbishop. We will clothe him every year always

0:37:54.560 --> 0:37:56.960
<v Speaker 3>like our noble men, and give him our court dress.

0:37:57.280 --> 0:38:00.000
<v Speaker 3>Also we grant him twenty bushels of grain and two

0:38:00.080 --> 0:38:02.520
<v Speaker 3>large barrels of wine for the use of his house,

0:38:02.920 --> 0:38:06.000
<v Speaker 3>free of duty, upon its arrival in Mainz every year

0:38:06.040 --> 0:38:08.479
<v Speaker 3>as long as he lives, on condition that he will

0:38:08.480 --> 0:38:10.719
<v Speaker 3>not sell it or give it away as has been

0:38:10.760 --> 0:38:13.680
<v Speaker 3>promised in good faith by Johann Gutenberg himself.

0:38:14.760 --> 0:38:20.040
<v Speaker 2>Tax free wine has free wine. That is the happy ending,

0:38:20.200 --> 0:38:21.560
<v Speaker 2>I guess that we were looking for in.

0:38:21.520 --> 0:38:24.320
<v Speaker 3>A way right. Well, that and you know, school children

0:38:24.360 --> 0:38:28.960
<v Speaker 3>don't learn about the Foost printing press. Gutenberg's name, even

0:38:28.960 --> 0:38:33.440
<v Speaker 3>if he didn't put it on the book itself, is famous.

0:38:33.480 --> 0:38:35.359
<v Speaker 3>He is one of the greatest inventors of all time.

0:38:35.480 --> 0:38:38.439
<v Speaker 2>We've got one last idea I want to talk about

0:38:38.520 --> 0:38:41.480
<v Speaker 2>before the end of the show, which is really I

0:38:41.480 --> 0:38:45.080
<v Speaker 2>think the first moment when you see the printing press

0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:46.759
<v Speaker 2>transform society.

0:38:47.280 --> 0:38:48.000
<v Speaker 3>We'll talk about that.

0:38:47.960 --> 0:39:10.040
<v Speaker 5>In just a minute, Robert.

0:39:10.080 --> 0:39:13.320
<v Speaker 2>This last idea, we're doing this kind of epilogue to

0:39:13.360 --> 0:39:17.840
<v Speaker 2>the show. It's about indulgences. Indulgences, of course, were one

0:39:17.880 --> 0:39:20.000
<v Speaker 2>of the first things Gutenberg printed, one of the first

0:39:20.000 --> 0:39:24.680
<v Speaker 2>things Fustin Schaeffer printed. And it's really remarkable when you

0:39:24.760 --> 0:39:29.480
<v Speaker 2>look at the spread of printing across Europe, you see

0:39:29.480 --> 0:39:34.200
<v Speaker 2>this boom in the indulgence business because like remember, the

0:39:34.280 --> 0:39:37.360
<v Speaker 2>church was constrained before by the actual labor of the

0:39:37.400 --> 0:39:41.400
<v Speaker 2>scribes to write out each receipt for each indulgence. But

0:39:41.560 --> 0:39:46.479
<v Speaker 2>by fifteen hundred you see a bishop in Sicily paying

0:39:46.520 --> 0:39:51.320
<v Speaker 2>a publisher to print one hundred and thirty thousand indulgences.

0:39:51.800 --> 0:39:54.040
<v Speaker 3>Do we know if sin went up to people like

0:39:54.440 --> 0:39:56.920
<v Speaker 3>set on their spouses more because there were just like

0:39:57.000 --> 0:39:58.320
<v Speaker 3>piles of indigence.

0:39:58.000 --> 0:39:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Like that, or if the price went down, right, I

0:39:59.960 --> 0:40:02.560
<v Speaker 2>don't know, in a competitive market. The price went down,

0:40:02.600 --> 0:40:05.400
<v Speaker 2>but there was a monopoly around the same time. You

0:40:05.440 --> 0:40:09.200
<v Speaker 2>see near Barcelona a monastery commissions more than two hundred

0:40:09.239 --> 0:40:10.600
<v Speaker 2>thousand indulgences.

0:40:10.840 --> 0:40:11.919
<v Speaker 3>The line is around the plank.

0:40:12.000 --> 0:40:14.520
<v Speaker 2>Actually, don't know if there was a monopoly maybe different

0:40:14.640 --> 0:40:17.680
<v Speaker 2>like local you know, archbishops were competing, good question, don't know.

0:40:17.840 --> 0:40:21.520
<v Speaker 2>So the printing press itself is enabling this explosion in indulgences,

0:40:22.080 --> 0:40:25.600
<v Speaker 2>but a backlash is building.

0:40:25.560 --> 0:40:29.280
<v Speaker 3>A backlash of people who want reform, who.

0:40:29.200 --> 0:40:30.160
<v Speaker 4>Want to protest.

0:40:31.680 --> 0:40:37.640
<v Speaker 2>In fifteen seventeen, Martin Luther, yes, Martin Luther, that Martin Luther,

0:40:37.760 --> 0:40:41.120
<v Speaker 2>professor priest in the German town of Wittenberg, because it's

0:40:41.120 --> 0:40:46.120
<v Speaker 2>Wittenberg in German. He decides that the indulgence thing has

0:40:46.160 --> 0:40:46.799
<v Speaker 2>gone too far.

0:40:46.960 --> 0:40:49.200
<v Speaker 3>Like it is, he sees it everywhere, It's all over

0:40:49.200 --> 0:40:49.560
<v Speaker 3>the place.

0:40:49.640 --> 0:40:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's too much, And he writes this kind of

0:40:54.120 --> 0:41:00.440
<v Speaker 2>academic argument in Latin, basically against indulgences, you know, famously

0:41:00.480 --> 0:41:04.160
<v Speaker 2>his ninety five theces which get posted on the church

0:41:04.239 --> 0:41:07.239
<v Speaker 2>door and just posted he hammered them. Well that's the

0:41:07.320 --> 0:41:09.520
<v Speaker 2>myth again, that's the yes, I was, I was actually

0:41:09.520 --> 0:41:11.680
<v Speaker 2>reading about that. I guess like the church store was

0:41:11.719 --> 0:41:13.520
<v Speaker 2>like the bulletin board, and everybody.

0:41:13.200 --> 0:41:15.200
<v Speaker 3>Pust it everything down. But whatever, it just sounds better,

0:41:15.280 --> 0:41:15.600
<v Speaker 3>it does.

0:41:15.760 --> 0:41:19.560
<v Speaker 2>So his ninety five theses ninety five propositions are largely

0:41:19.600 --> 0:41:23.160
<v Speaker 2>an argument against indulgences, and so I've grabbed a few

0:41:23.160 --> 0:41:23.480
<v Speaker 2>here for.

0:41:23.440 --> 0:41:23.839
<v Speaker 1>You to read.

0:41:23.840 --> 0:41:25.680
<v Speaker 3>Give me a couple, all right, Well we'll skip over

0:41:25.719 --> 0:41:29.480
<v Speaker 3>some and go to number thirty two. Those who believe

0:41:29.520 --> 0:41:31.880
<v Speaker 3>that they can be certain of their salvation because they

0:41:31.920 --> 0:41:37.360
<v Speaker 3>have indulgence letters will be eternally damned together with their teachers. Serious. Okay,

0:41:37.480 --> 0:41:41.120
<v Speaker 3>let's go to thirty six. Any truly repentant Christian has

0:41:41.160 --> 0:41:44.600
<v Speaker 3>a right to full remission of penalty and guilt even

0:41:44.840 --> 0:41:49.919
<v Speaker 3>without indulgence letters. Save your money, Bro's coming right at them.

0:41:50.040 --> 0:41:53.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah so yeah, So this, of course, famously right is

0:41:53.080 --> 0:41:56.920
<v Speaker 2>the beginning of the Protestant Reformation, and it's happening like

0:41:57.280 --> 0:41:59.640
<v Speaker 2>you could argue, it has been argued it is happening

0:41:59.680 --> 0:42:02.239
<v Speaker 2>partly because the invention of the printing press led to

0:42:02.280 --> 0:42:06.680
<v Speaker 2>this proliferation of indulgences. And if you didn't know what

0:42:06.719 --> 0:42:08.439
<v Speaker 2>was going to happen next, you might think this would

0:42:08.480 --> 0:42:13.280
<v Speaker 2>be bad for business for the printers. But no, because

0:42:13.320 --> 0:42:17.320
<v Speaker 2>first of all, the ninety five theses are suddenly reprinted everywhere.

0:42:17.560 --> 0:42:22.120
<v Speaker 2>Everybody loves list. It's a very interesting idea. It's very

0:42:22.200 --> 0:42:23.080
<v Speaker 2>much of the moment.

0:42:23.280 --> 0:42:24.640
<v Speaker 3>Number thirty six will shock you.

0:42:25.840 --> 0:42:30.080
<v Speaker 2>And really interestingly, in the next few years after this,

0:42:30.320 --> 0:42:32.839
<v Speaker 2>Luther starts writing a lot, not just in Latin for

0:42:32.920 --> 0:42:37.240
<v Speaker 2>this kind of academic and religious audience or priestly audience,

0:42:37.560 --> 0:42:40.960
<v Speaker 2>but he's writing also in German for a much more

0:42:41.040 --> 0:42:44.879
<v Speaker 2>popular audience. And in fact, the public goes wild for

0:42:44.920 --> 0:42:48.480
<v Speaker 2>his work and it becomes almost like news. Like he

0:42:48.560 --> 0:42:51.480
<v Speaker 2>writes these short sermons that are just a few pages long,

0:42:51.520 --> 0:42:53.279
<v Speaker 2>and he'll take them to the printer and they'll be

0:42:53.320 --> 0:42:55.120
<v Speaker 2>out on the streets in a few days. Like it's

0:42:55.280 --> 0:43:00.040
<v Speaker 2>very dynamic, and it's enabled by the printing press. When

0:43:00.040 --> 0:43:03.839
<v Speaker 2>he's getting going, there's just one printer in Wittenberg. It's

0:43:03.840 --> 0:43:06.479
<v Speaker 2>a small town and It's amazing the way Luther keeps

0:43:06.480 --> 0:43:08.520
<v Speaker 2>complaining about the printer to his friends.

0:43:08.560 --> 0:43:09.879
<v Speaker 3>At one point he writes.

0:43:10.120 --> 0:43:12.600
<v Speaker 2>You would not believe how I regret and how I

0:43:12.640 --> 0:43:17.440
<v Speaker 2>am disgusted by his work. Writers love complaining about their publishers.

0:43:17.440 --> 0:43:19.200
<v Speaker 2>To Sloppy, He's not promoting.

0:43:20.480 --> 0:43:21.000
<v Speaker 3>He wasn't complaining.

0:43:21.040 --> 0:43:23.760
<v Speaker 2>Nobody's complained about the marketing department yet. So he actually

0:43:23.840 --> 0:43:26.400
<v Speaker 2>invites another printer to come and set up shop in

0:43:26.480 --> 0:43:30.880
<v Speaker 2>town and soon, because Luther is this kind of proto

0:43:30.960 --> 0:43:36.400
<v Speaker 2>best selling author, there is this little industry of print

0:43:36.400 --> 0:43:38.919
<v Speaker 2>shops in this small town, so they can just get

0:43:39.000 --> 0:43:40.760
<v Speaker 2>Luther's stuff out fast.

0:43:41.120 --> 0:43:43.680
<v Speaker 3>This is like the invention of the media. There's a

0:43:43.719 --> 0:43:48.799
<v Speaker 3>whole ecosystem developing. People want the newest stuff now, you know,

0:43:48.880 --> 0:43:51.160
<v Speaker 3>it's a clear line from here all the way to TikTok.

0:43:51.200 --> 0:43:54.040
<v Speaker 2>So there is now this print industry, this media industry,

0:43:54.080 --> 0:43:56.120
<v Speaker 2>you could say, if you want to be a little anachronistic.

0:43:56.239 --> 0:44:01.759
<v Speaker 2>In Wittenberg, and over the course of Luther's lifetime, it

0:44:01.960 --> 0:44:05.319
<v Speaker 2>just proliferates. Like he translates the Bible into German, so

0:44:05.360 --> 0:44:09.120
<v Speaker 2>of course a big deal. Historically in his lifetime, these

0:44:09.160 --> 0:44:13.759
<v Speaker 2>local printers print over one hundred thousand copies of this

0:44:14.080 --> 0:44:15.360
<v Speaker 2>German translation.

0:44:14.960 --> 0:44:18.040
<v Speaker 3>Of the Bible. And in his lifetime, you know, more broadly,

0:44:18.120 --> 0:44:21.800
<v Speaker 3>in the German speaking world, printing is proliferating, and something

0:44:21.920 --> 0:44:27.080
<v Speaker 3>like six or seven million evangelical pamphlets are printed in

0:44:27.160 --> 0:44:30.480
<v Speaker 3>German throughout the region. It's amazing because it's not just

0:44:31.360 --> 0:44:35.640
<v Speaker 3>a product. Gutenberg didn't invent something that just fulfilled one need.

0:44:35.760 --> 0:44:40.080
<v Speaker 3>It created a million needs. The moment the printing press

0:44:40.160 --> 0:44:42.960
<v Speaker 3>is there, you don't just want to print one thing

0:44:43.000 --> 0:44:45.080
<v Speaker 3>the Bible. You want to print arguments about the Bible

0:44:45.120 --> 0:44:48.279
<v Speaker 3>and arguments back and competing views.

0:44:48.000 --> 0:44:51.640
<v Speaker 2>Of this well, and it changes the dynamics of like, well,

0:44:51.680 --> 0:44:54.720
<v Speaker 2>now you can have more intelligences. Now one random priest

0:44:55.160 --> 0:44:57.799
<v Speaker 2>can have an audience of millions in a way that

0:44:58.320 --> 0:45:00.880
<v Speaker 2>is almost unimaginable without the printing press.

0:45:00.920 --> 0:45:02.919
<v Speaker 3>And if you didn't know how to read, you would

0:45:02.960 --> 0:45:05.560
<v Speaker 3>have incentive to learn how to read in order to

0:45:05.600 --> 0:45:07.520
<v Speaker 3>read these things, which creates more demand.

0:45:07.680 --> 0:45:10.279
<v Speaker 2>Yes, so maybe one idea to land on is like

0:45:10.560 --> 0:45:13.640
<v Speaker 2>new technology is a new tool, and what nobody ever

0:45:13.760 --> 0:45:17.600
<v Speaker 2>knows is how are people going to use that tool.

0:45:18.040 --> 0:45:21.240
<v Speaker 3>These guys Gutenberg thought they were just making a cheaper,

0:45:21.320 --> 0:45:24.400
<v Speaker 3>more efficient way to make bibles. They didn't know what

0:45:24.520 --> 0:45:27.040
<v Speaker 3>else you could print beyond this, And then it goes

0:45:27.040 --> 0:45:33.239
<v Speaker 3>beyond religion. It changes politics, war, philosophy, science, everything I

0:45:33.280 --> 0:45:33.600
<v Speaker 3>want to.

0:45:33.600 --> 0:45:37.000
<v Speaker 2>Say as we roll into the credits today, I want

0:45:37.000 --> 0:45:38.880
<v Speaker 2>to say thank you to the listener who wrote to

0:45:38.960 --> 0:45:42.040
<v Speaker 2>us to say that whenever he tells his friends about

0:45:42.040 --> 0:45:46.239
<v Speaker 2>our show, they say that doesn't sound like you, but

0:45:46.320 --> 0:45:48.439
<v Speaker 2>it is a nice thought to tell your friends about

0:45:48.440 --> 0:45:51.040
<v Speaker 2>the show, and we encourage all of our listeners to

0:45:51.080 --> 0:45:54.440
<v Speaker 2>at least bring someone along. Truly, I am very grateful

0:45:54.440 --> 0:45:58.480
<v Speaker 2>to anyone who recommends the show to a friend. If

0:45:58.520 --> 0:46:00.160
<v Speaker 2>you write to us and tell us that you told

0:46:00.160 --> 0:46:02.160
<v Speaker 2>a friend, I will personally write back to you and

0:46:02.200 --> 0:46:04.200
<v Speaker 2>thank you for whatever that's worth. We're at Business History

0:46:04.200 --> 0:46:09.200
<v Speaker 2>at Pushkin FM. Our show today was produced by Gabriel

0:46:09.239 --> 0:46:13.800
<v Speaker 2>Hunter Chang was engineered by Sarah Bruguier. Our video editor

0:46:13.960 --> 0:46:17.800
<v Speaker 2>is Matt Nielsen. Our showrunner and editor is Ryan Dilly.

0:46:17.800 --> 0:46:19.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm Jacob Goldstein, and.

0:46:18.960 --> 0:46:22.400
<v Speaker 3>I'm Robert Smith. This is Business History. Thanks for listening.