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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to season to fifty three,

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Speaker 1: episode one of dir das Guys Stay production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. This is a podcast where we take a

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Speaker 1: deep dive into America's shared consciousness. And it is, of course, Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: September six, Holy ship, Oh my gosh, we made it.

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Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, and you know what that means. It's national

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Speaker 1: Read a book day. Okay, read a damn book. Please

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Speaker 1: don't just you know, just don't just say don't just

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Speaker 1: read the spine of the book and be like, I

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Speaker 1: read that the book. Please actually had that book recommended

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Speaker 1: to me in an Instagram photo, and so I therefore

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Speaker 1: read the title, which is half the battle, if not more.

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Speaker 1: It's also reversed sixty nine day, right, it's nine. Hey,

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Speaker 1: WHOA didn't think about that yet? Let him know? Why? Why?

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Speaker 1: Why did ninety six not get any of the love?

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Speaker 1: You know? Is it just because it makes us picture

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Speaker 1: even older people? No? Nineties six? And I think it's

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Speaker 1: like more Batman and Robbert. You're back to back, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, I guess that's like

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Speaker 1: spokes to me the back of your back to back. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: now that's a good point. Now, yeah, getting yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: be like when I'm picturing it. I've been sixty nine,

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Speaker 1: all wrong all this time. Oh boy, all right, I've

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Speaker 1: been ninety six. Well, anyways, my name's Jack O'Brien. A

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Speaker 1: k on a dark desert highway, cool ranch in my hair.

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Speaker 1: One smell of Gordita's rising up through the air. Up

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Speaker 1: ahead in the distance, I saw a purple neon lights.

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Speaker 1: My stomach hungry and my choices slim. I exited on

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Speaker 1: the right. As I got to the doorway of the

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Speaker 1: taco bell, I was thinking to myself, I could get

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Speaker 1: seven tacos with hard shells. Then she asked me my

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Speaker 1: order and how I would like to pay. All my

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Speaker 1: choices found me worried for my Collin's mental state. Long one,

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Speaker 1: Here comes the sorry, Here comes the choloup? Does that

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Speaker 1: I ordered? Got chicken and steak? Got you here in

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Speaker 1: steak all over my face, all over my face. I'm

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Speaker 1: living it must look at all the food that I ordered,

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Speaker 1: notcho cheesy fries and black beans and rice that is

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Speaker 1: courtesy of Wopple House bringing the longy, but a goody. Damn.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm about to go on a road trip,

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Speaker 1: and this felt extremely appropriate to me. Also, you know,

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Speaker 1: when it's a first time guest, I like to just

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Speaker 1: let him know how bizarre the show is, how weird. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and and that I have serious pipes and karaoke night here.

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Speaker 1: And I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my

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Speaker 1: co host, Mr Miles Is Mr Miles Gray. You know what,

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Speaker 1: Chris see, I'm a Gucci man. When you wrote that

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Speaker 1: a k A, I read the last line like it

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Speaker 1: was bon Jovi's dead or alive. So I'm gonna switch

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Speaker 1: it up that same ak where it's I'm living. It

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Speaker 1: must look at all the food I by nacho cheesey fries,

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Speaker 1: jeesey fries and black beans and rap. Okay, so shout

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Speaker 1: out to you again. I just took a new version

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Speaker 1: on it. Invert its beautiful. Well, and then this is

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Speaker 1: fun because now we get to introduce our incredibly impressive guest.

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Speaker 1: Fantastic guests. Yes that a perfect intro is the position

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Speaker 1: like none other on the Internet. A public defender with

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Speaker 1: Legal Aid New York, a writer who you've read on

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Speaker 1: Team Vogue, a commentator for the Long Prime Network, and

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Speaker 1: a contributor to the Hill. Please welcome the brilliant and

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Speaker 1: talented alia me all around welcome. First of all, I'm

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Speaker 1: super impressed that you'll pronounced my name right and that

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Speaker 1: y'all had them songs. Look, we try, we try, we try.

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Speaker 1: How are you being how are you doing good? Good?

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Speaker 1: I'm having a good day. Got paid today, beautiful, mean

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Speaker 1: that the papers yesterday, and I feel rich. Tummor early.

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Speaker 1: How's the weather? You're in New York? I'm guessing right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: I am in New York. I'm in New York. It's

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Speaker 1: it's sunny, but I am I'm a firm believer that

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Speaker 1: sunniness is overrated. So listen, y'all didn't grow up in

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Speaker 1: the Bahamas in the summer and the heat time with

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Speaker 1: no a c on And you're trying me, refusing to

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Speaker 1: turn it on, talking about catch the breeze. I have

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Speaker 1: something right. How are you looking forward to? Like fall

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Speaker 1: and winter? Yea, yeah, I love the fall. I love

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Speaker 1: the fall. I think the fall is the best season

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Speaker 1: and summer just has better. Pr right exactly, because look,

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Speaker 1: nothing I'm wearing a coat is undefeated. That's how I

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Speaker 1: feel like and I like Look, I grew up in

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Speaker 1: the San Fernando Vallet, Hottest ship desert I grew up

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Speaker 1: all people being like I love it here. I'm like, man,

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Speaker 1: I would, I will, I will move to where snows.

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Speaker 1: I don't give a funk. I like variation, and I

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Speaker 1: like cold. It's not what it's always cut up to be.

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Speaker 1: Heat is Heat is really the first time I really

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Speaker 1: realized how much I truly hated heat was I was

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Speaker 1: visiting a family island and the mohammads and listen. It

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Speaker 1: was only then that I really realized, oh, we're really

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Speaker 1: from my island. Like I was running for a tree,

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Speaker 1: I felt like that ultate, I'm like, leave, shay. It

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Speaker 1: helped me. We are not we are not meant. And

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Speaker 1: then the sun the way is giving it up. Now,

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Speaker 1: I'm telling you there's no what. I'm convinced nobody. You

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Speaker 1: don't need to talk to the scientists anymore. I am

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Speaker 1: telling you that used to be a whole that is none.

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Speaker 1: I could feel the sun directly, no filter, beating down

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Speaker 1: on me directly. It's responsible to be outside in the sun. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the summer is so brutal, only getting more brutal. We

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Speaker 1: talked on a recent episode about the beach is you know,

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Speaker 1: the beach is great, but only as relief from the

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Speaker 1: extremely uncomfortable summer. You know, it's like, it's not like

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Speaker 1: I don't know, the fall is so great. I'm so excited.

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Speaker 1: And this might just be the fact that it's the

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Speaker 1: very end of summer speaking and I'm sweating through my

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Speaker 1: shirt as we speak. But yeah, and I'm about to

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Speaker 1: drive through Death Valley and it's gonna be bad. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but on the north face, let me see a bubble

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Speaker 1: boost just out there, like, let me the last thing

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Speaker 1: you ever do. Yeah, alright, align me. We're gonna get

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Speaker 1: to know you a little bit better in a moment. First,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna tell our listeners a couple of the things

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Speaker 1: we're talking about. We're gonna talk about the Safer American

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Speaker 1: Plan and just the way the media regurgitates talking points

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Speaker 1: that more cops equals safety. And we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about copaganda and all it's not in all its forms,

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Speaker 1: but in some of its more popular forms, which alliw

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Speaker 1: ME you have written about at length and brilliantly. So

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Speaker 1: all of that plenty more. But first we do like

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Speaker 1: to ask our guests, what is something from your search

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Speaker 1: history that is revealing that who you are or what

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Speaker 1: you're up to well, in my search history right now,

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Speaker 1: I think it's it's foolishness. I've been arguing my friends

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Speaker 1: that you or is black from way to Pool, and

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Speaker 1: so that is That's what I'm on right now. The

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Speaker 1: cartoon characters are actually black. Wait I liked it. Wait, okay,

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Speaker 1: now that I'm thinking about this, does he live in

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Speaker 1: the forest with them? No? No, he does not live

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Speaker 1: in a hundred acre woods. I'm glad. I'm glad you asked.

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Speaker 1: He lives on the outskirts by himself. Yes, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you have noticed. And you just look at

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Speaker 1: the ship infrastructure of ears, a little snoopy house versus

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Speaker 1: everybody's full home and they got a lad right, everybody

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Speaker 1: else lives in a hundred acre woods. They don't even

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Speaker 1: see or till the end of the episode. They spend

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Speaker 1: all day fraulicking amongst the hundred acre woods. And after

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Speaker 1: they've done doing everything they do with eating potty and

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Speaker 1: going by rabbit, and they're like, who you's got off

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Speaker 1: my shift on the sanitation department talking about listening them

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Speaker 1: all day? They're like, he's depressed, but no one ask why.

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Speaker 1: Nobody asked, like or you get really angry really easy. People. Listen.

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Speaker 1: I knew it was up as a child, me and

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Speaker 1: my ground me Pep immediately was black. I remember they

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Speaker 1: came to him at the end of the episode be like,

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Speaker 1: hold on, you know it's the it's this the Adventures

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Speaker 1: of Winnie the Pool when everybody else do adventures but

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Speaker 1: not the yard. Yeah. Immediately, wife like, wife like, that's

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Speaker 1: why everybody lives in a hundred acre was and he

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Speaker 1: lives there? Where does Christopher Robin live? Ah, right in

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Speaker 1: the bur with them? You know, it's not right, And

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Speaker 1: he's just kind of he's like, Yo, this is my backyard. Yeah, yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: white Christopher Robin and all the rest of them living

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Speaker 1: in the same community. M there's the new horror movie

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Speaker 1: Winnie the Pool Blood First, yeah, you were dead already,

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Speaker 1: my own song, my side. And then apparently they like

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Speaker 1: the implied backstories that Winnie the Pool and piglet ate him.

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Speaker 1: Is that is that? Did I make that up? They

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Speaker 1: marked him in some way? All I know is sorry,

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Speaker 1: horror movie black person's guys, First, we need to put

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Speaker 1: horror movie starts up with you're already gone saying or

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Speaker 1: it's or it's like the magical donkey man, you're to like,

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Speaker 1: tell us of your ways. They got my man's out

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Speaker 1: of there because he's a brother. All right, shout out

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Speaker 1: your what's up? What's up? Do you think is overrated?

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Speaker 1: The Notebook? Okay? The movie? Then you really no one

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Speaker 1: has dragged you in your life. Seeing every person that

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Speaker 1: was shaming me for watching it was a white woman

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Speaker 1: and listen and they loved them some notebook. And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: what what about this trauma filmed movie is doing it

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Speaker 1: for you? Like I don't. It's a it's a sad film.

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Speaker 1: It's honestly, the whole movie is a cry for help

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Speaker 1: for Ryan Gosson's character and why no one ever in

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Speaker 1: his whole life, no one ever saw to teach him

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Speaker 1: that he was valuable, Like your life don't have to

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Speaker 1: all about this lady like yo, you spend summertime with

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Speaker 1: this lady one time and not your whole like it's

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Speaker 1: about dying the whole like you never heard but no

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Speaker 1: interest in hands, just trying to make her dreams come through,

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Speaker 1: sitting around waiting fun to come like and then what

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Speaker 1: happens The woman spends he spend to someone with this

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Speaker 1: woman falls in love with this woman. He gotta go

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Speaker 1: to war because he's poor. First of all, he spends

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Speaker 1: the whole first and half a movie. You'll either Jack,

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Speaker 1: what's happening? I don't know. Okay, dating, they gotta they

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Speaker 1: gotta pull it together. Yea, listen, this is this is

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Speaker 1: what happens, right, not the not the love versus. Let

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Speaker 1: me tell you what happens. So Ryan Gosling is dating

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Speaker 1: this woman. They're just summer. They're young teenagers. She is

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Speaker 1: a rich white lady. He is a poor white man.

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Speaker 1: Her rich family and having that. So then he goes

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Speaker 1: off to war and he's said in all these letters,

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Speaker 1: rich families like brules in the trash, like he died,

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Speaker 1: really died. He is dead. He died in the war.

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Speaker 1: And she's like, oh, feel like that sometimes, and she

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Speaker 1: fully goes and gets her a rich man and she's

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Speaker 1: kicking it chilling. But then he comes back from the

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Speaker 1: war to you with a man, and he's like, uh huh,

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Speaker 1: I should go and build her dream house. That'll do it.

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Speaker 1: So he goes, yes, yes, he does, Yeah, he builds.

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Speaker 1: He builds the dream home this lady talked about that summer, right,

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Speaker 1: goes builds it. Eventually she finds out she sees a

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Speaker 1: picture of him in the newspaper and she's like, oh, ship,

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Speaker 1: he ain't dead. Like she's not, like, oe, he's not dead.

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Speaker 1: Love my life. Let me get my man's nah. Then

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Speaker 1: he comes to like, oh, you know, I love you

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Speaker 1: and whatnot, and she's like yeah, she's still not with it.

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Speaker 1: Then they have sex and she's like that was cool,

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Speaker 1: but I do got to me a man. So she

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Speaker 1: goes back to a rich Then after a little bit

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Speaker 1: she's like, okay, okay, I'll be with you, brokey, I'll

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Speaker 1: be with you. I'll be with you. So then they

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Speaker 1: got married and then later in the old age, she

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Speaker 1: gets Alzheimer's. Remember, yeah, she does, no shot she does.

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Speaker 1: Now she don't even remember him. So now they go

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Speaker 1: to the Ohld Folks Home and he dies with her.

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Speaker 1: He like has like times that I would somehow his

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Speaker 1: love gave him a heart attack at the right time

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Speaker 1: with her saying to die with her because he can't

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Speaker 1: live life without Shorty. That's a film that is a

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Speaker 1: story about trauma therapy. That is actually that is an

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Speaker 1: indictment on poverty, because if he had health insurance. From

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the movie, he would have started through

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Speaker 1: that break up in the appropriate way. He would have

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Speaker 1: talked to the therapist and he would have wrapped that up.

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Speaker 1: But instead I'm watching I'm like, oh my god, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, and all the white ladies are like that's

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Speaker 1: my feel much ever scene, and I'm like, is it,

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Speaker 1: Like yeah, no, that's terrible. I look at it. That

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Speaker 1: film he came out in June or two thousand four,

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Speaker 1: so that's the summer of my freshman year of college.

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Speaker 1: And this is me in the process of rejecting everything

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Speaker 1: I thought. I like that was mainstream because like high school,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, man, funk all this ship. I'll be

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Speaker 1: consuming Like that was kind of my mindset. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I never listened to the fucking pop top four fucking notebook,

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Speaker 1: fuck out of here. So I had a very like contrarian,

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Speaker 1: angry guy mindset back then, which is why I like,

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Speaker 1: to this day, I think part of me was like, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not that person. Then I do not

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Speaker 1: engage with the notebook. I don't even know what my

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Speaker 1: excuse was, because I was a young girl and I

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Speaker 1: loved all things. But I watched this and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not feeling the love. I'm like, not your second

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Speaker 1: pick your whole life. And then she forgets you. Now

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Speaker 1: you dad, that's it, that's the whole life. No roll

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Speaker 1: of a minute, We're not gonna start this life thing over. Terrible. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and again, just good to indoctrinate people with that idea.

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Speaker 1: It's like, look, motherfucker, are you gonna be treated like

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Speaker 1: they don't want you. You're going to be second best,

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Speaker 1: You're gonna die and they're gonna forget about you. And

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Speaker 1: that's beautiful, and that's beautiful, and they they loved it.

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Speaker 1: Listen ruin the generation. Yeah, that's yeah. That I I

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Speaker 1: believe that's called codependency. That's not not Yeah. Wow, I

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Speaker 1: did not know that was the plot of that. I

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Speaker 1: just new the last part because I'm like, well, what

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Speaker 1: the fund is? I remember always asking me, like what

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Speaker 1: the fund is? The notebook? Though, like why is it

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Speaker 1: called the notebook? They're like, because he's they don't remember

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Speaker 1: ship and he has to read the notebook to her,

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Speaker 1: And I was like, which is terrible. That's also why

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Speaker 1: fifty First Dates isn't terrible? Is that I don't know

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Speaker 1: why people love that either. Yes, I saw First Dates

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Speaker 1: and that is weird at the end, like she feels

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Speaker 1: it seems like she's like a captive, Like it's so strange. No,

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Speaker 1: you can't go like you have to every day. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna read you're gonna do this whole thing. I have

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Speaker 1: you in a boat. I'm pretty sure they're like on

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Speaker 1: a boat doing this. It is terrible. I couldn't believe it,

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Speaker 1: Like why is this just dramatic film? Just horror movies?

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Speaker 1: That was like she gets into an accident, she forgets everything,

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Speaker 1: and now he's gonna make her do groundhogs day every day,

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Speaker 1: Like you don't even have enough time in the day

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Speaker 1: to convince her she loves him. It takes twenty four

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Speaker 1: hours just to remind her, all right, like with me,

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Speaker 1: and then she's pregnant at one point. So now you

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Speaker 1: in presill. I feel like every morning is chichi chi chill,

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Speaker 1: Like she's like, what's on and watch this motherfucking tape.

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Speaker 1: You gotta send alarm for like an hour before her

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Speaker 1: so it could be up and ready to get it

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Speaker 1: to Like yeah, right, exactly, Okay, you're strapped in. I

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Speaker 1: know you are restrained right now, but this is for

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Speaker 1: your own safety and that of the child. She's like, what,

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Speaker 1: well you allow some we allowed some sick movies and

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Speaker 1: shows to like really get away and we're just like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: people like this is real cute. I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: they love each other in general. It's say how much

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Speaker 1: we have amnesia as a trope in media in general,

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Speaker 1: like memory loss because the ain't cute. I don't get it,

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Speaker 1: but we keep doing it. But it's not cute at all. No.

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, I remember, you're dealing with my own family,

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Speaker 1: you know, like dementia, Alzheimer's, and that ship is the

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Speaker 1: last thing is like it's so fun to look at

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Speaker 1: my grandmother who's like, who are you? Yeah, trying to

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Speaker 1: show her pictures. She's like that ain't me And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: that is not that's not a version. Where then I

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Speaker 1: go to like a quirky like island cafe later and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, man, I had a rough one today, right

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Speaker 1: my Mazda leaving the convalescent home, like mortality weeping, just

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Speaker 1: the most tragic thing. Yeah, what if something you think

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Speaker 1: is underrated? Courage the Cowardly Dog. Okay, yeah, so like

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Speaker 1: please tell me I'll watch Courage too. No, I know

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Speaker 1: about Courage the cowardly dog. But I was not watching Uh,

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Speaker 1: I was not watching it in It's Heyday, and I

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Speaker 1: hate I hate how your childhood went for you, and

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Speaker 1: I want more from me. Oh, thank you, thank you,

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Speaker 1: Like there's there's just no reason why I was he

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Speaker 1: well's my point, courage. Courage is the most underrated. Like

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Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, the way SpongeBob is. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I mean, nothing nothing touching SpongeBob obvious, but courage should

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Speaker 1: be talked about more. We should be getting more couragebub

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Speaker 1: culture references and my man don't get no love. So

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Speaker 1: it's courage for me. It came out of so okay,

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Speaker 1: So when this show came out, like in It's hey Day,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, eighth junior high high school. So

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Speaker 1: I because I'm constantly putting myself in that year, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I know why I wasn't watching this

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Speaker 1: because at this point I was like trying to be like, yo,

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Speaker 1: I'm watching fucking Tarantino. I'm that's what you were watching. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's why I'm so maladjusted as a judging my GRADEO

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Speaker 1: was watching dragon Ball is the inappropriate things for cool people.

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Speaker 1: I went up you growing up have Japanese. I was

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Speaker 1: watching Dragon and ball Z when I was like a kid.

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Speaker 1: So when that ship came to the U S, I

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Speaker 1: was like, I've been off this ship and you're talking

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Speaker 1: about them on now. Okay, you got me there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it's a little I have a I'm in a

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Speaker 1: weird spot as like a black and Japanese American were

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Speaker 1: like part of me is like, what's this white, black

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Speaker 1: and Japanese American pop. I'm like, just I'm in my

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Speaker 1: media mind. I had like I was contested. I had

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Speaker 1: many different forces at work with what I thought I

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Speaker 1: should or should not be watching at that. Eh. But

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Speaker 1: then you watch Boondogs. Boondogs is also yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm throwing bon knocks and cardage and cowardly Dog. That's

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Speaker 1: my final answer. Wait, so what's so good? Okay tell me.

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Speaker 1: I know, like when I look at the art of Courage,

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Speaker 1: I know that's courage, but I've never been like seen

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Speaker 1: a whole episode and like, oh this is why people,

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00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,080
Speaker 1: I mean encourage, it was just a realist mollfu alive.

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00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:54,280
Speaker 1: I mean that's okay, that's just the realty right as well?

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Speaker 1: They call him courage The cowardly dog, but was a

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00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,800
Speaker 1: ship cowardly about him. Okay, Courage was out here, living

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00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,120
Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere, fighting of real fucking monsters

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00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,240
Speaker 1: every day to save Muriel's ask and Murray. So he

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00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:08,000
Speaker 1: lived with these two old people, his owners, Muriel and Eustace.

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00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,400
Speaker 1: Eustace as a hater like I hated Deepen and soul

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Speaker 1: like god like when he was thinking, I hate that

347
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,680
Speaker 1: you put Ustss on earth because that's what Ustance is

348
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:17,480
Speaker 1: there to do, is they hate on Courage and cause

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Speaker 1: the monster to kill them all. And Muriel is very stupid,

350
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,320
Speaker 1: like fully just a dodal burn, but Courage loves us,

351
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,399
Speaker 1: but they can understand him. The monsters be coming right

352
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,720
Speaker 1: to the door saying, happy monsters, we had to do

353
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,840
Speaker 1: monster ship today, and they'd be like, oh, Courage, get

354
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 1: him some coffee like Courrage shop and now full monster

355
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,760
Speaker 1: ship whole episode for the Courage got to save them

356
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,399
Speaker 1: and the animation is amazing. But yeah, Current just just

357
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Speaker 1: that guy. So the thing I was doing because I'm

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00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 1: old as fuck, the like I didn't, I didn't watch.

359
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,040
Speaker 1: I was, you know, I think nineteen twenty two when

360
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,679
Speaker 1: when this came out. But I did, like edit an

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Speaker 1: article about like a fan theory about Courage the Cowardly Dog,

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00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,399
Speaker 1: and the fan is that, like the monsters are just

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00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 1: people from a dog's point of view, and like the

364
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 1: whole thing is just like a really accurate depiction of

365
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 1: what reality looks like from a dog's point of view,

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00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,760
Speaker 1: and like like one of the things is like a

367
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,879
Speaker 1: is courage like have a like terrifying interaction with a

368
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,720
Speaker 1: vacuum at one point. Maybe maybe, but that me and

369
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,399
Speaker 1: that person there who made that fan three, we might

370
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,320
Speaker 1: have to talk because I mean, I believe like adding

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00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 1: Addie fan theories right that Darren Purgatory, Like that's what

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00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 1: happened with the kids, seeing the kids are dead, that's

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Speaker 1: why the parents will show up. Yeah, yeah, I'm all

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Speaker 1: for I believe it. But Courage, boy, if you'll see

375
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 1: some of these demons and people coming from space and whatnot,

376
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 1: and people don't get Mrked, there is like a demon

377
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 1: cat that if you ever see the episode where Muriel's Miles.

378
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, I'm gonna sending you all a link

379
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,560
Speaker 1: to to Courage after this, and we're gonna revisit it

380
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 1: because I'm I don't think so. I mean, i want

381
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 1: to hear it, like, I'm open to the theory, but

382
00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,280
Speaker 1: I definitely think those are real monsters fucking life up

383
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 1: a courage every every every day. I wanted to kill

384
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,920
Speaker 1: murray in them, especially because they live in like the

385
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,880
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere, Like that's that's and I need song

386
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: top tore. It says that the theory of them being

387
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:15,920
Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere is that the dog a

388
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 1: dog's awareness of like have you ever heard that story

389
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 1: Like someone opens the fence and they're like, oh, the

390
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,920
Speaker 1: there's another yard behind there, and it's like, no, there's

391
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,159
Speaker 1: like yards because the dog is like only aware of

392
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: like what's happening inside their yard essentially, and so they

393
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 1: think it's in the middle of nowhere. But it's actually

394
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,359
Speaker 1: just like you see how establishment gas like encourage. You

395
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,960
Speaker 1: see that, You see that, you see courage finally gets

396
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,280
Speaker 1: a story out and now look what they want to do.

397
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 1: He's unwell, they are courage. That That's what I'm not

398
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,680
Speaker 1: talked up about. It is that it's like it makes

399
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,120
Speaker 1: it makes you realize like, oh, and being a dog

400
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 1: in a humans household would be fucking terrifying. You think dogs,

401
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: you know, dogs see him so so that's the thing. Though,

402
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:10,920
Speaker 1: dogs do be seems so happy is opposed to like

403
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 1: my cat, like like he's happy. But I know he's

404
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 1: like a person. He makes his own choices, like if

405
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 1: my cat kicks sit with me, I know it because

406
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 1: he wants to, because he'll definitely say no. But dogs

407
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: be here they do. Maybe maybe dogs are oppressed. Maybe

408
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 1: they feel like this is what I gotta do in

409
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 1: order to get my meals and go, like, you know,

410
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,159
Speaker 1: they might just be oppressed. You you're correct, I am

411
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 1: prepared to think about that. Courage definitely is m Okay,

412
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:42,399
Speaker 1: we're gonna yeah, send those links now, you gotta become

413
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,399
Speaker 1: a fan, Miles. That that money you about courage to

414
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: keep reading first, Yeah for sure. All right, let's take

415
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 1: a quick break. We'll come back. We'll talk about the

416
00:22:49,960 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 1: Safer American plan, and we're back and uh, you know,

417
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 1: in between Dark Biden Dark Brandon appearances last week that

418
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 1: everybody was meming up, Biden addressed it seemed like he

419
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 1: was addressing like a police union or something, because he

420
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: was like addressing them as like you guys, we expect

421
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: you guys do everything. So he announced his plan to

422
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 1: deal with crime, and he said the answer is not

423
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: to defund the police. It's fund the police. Jack. We

424
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: expect him to do everything to protect us, to be psychologist,

425
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: to be sociologists. He's really making the case for the fund. Yeah, exactly,

426
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 1: that's what's so great. He went from it's fun to

427
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 1: the like, this is why we should fund the police,

428
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 1: and then gave the examples of why we should defund

429
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 1: the police, why everything else is funded because we're giving

430
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 1: all the money to the police. Yeah, exactly, the we

431
00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: fund the police instead of mental health and like any

432
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: resource that doesn't involve like armed people, right, And it's

433
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: a major problem, right, And in part to them, the

434
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 1: police aren't adequately trained to do the things that you're

435
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 1: already paying them billions of dollars to do. So I

436
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: don't know why we would leave it to them to

437
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: do all these other areas that we have actual experts

438
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,199
Speaker 1: and trained professionals to do it logical, I like how

439
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: to even evokes psychologists and sociologists. And those are the

440
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:28,120
Speaker 1: motherfucker's that are ignoring, right exactly, those are they're actually

441
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: defunding while they continue to raise the money they're giving

442
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: to the police. They're like, godly, what's going on with that, Huh,

443
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 1: we should be funding you guys, expect you to the

444
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: problems that we ignore because they go against our conventional

445
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: conventional And it's not like people aren't those are literally

446
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 1: the arguments people are making, right, put money, gave money

447
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: to these social services and all these different other things

448
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: that the police aren't. The people responding to mental health checks,

449
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: people aren't. Police aren't responding, aren't police don't have to

450
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: respond to traffic violations and these different things, and theed

451
00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: to these results in the police and there's are like

452
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: absolutely not absolutely absolutely not. Don't you there, I wouldn't

453
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 1: think of it. Yeah, And it's anomalous, Like what we do.

454
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: The amount of funding that we give to the police

455
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 1: in the United States is historically anomalous. Is the most

456
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: any civilization has ever like used policing and like funded policing.

457
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,479
Speaker 1: And so any problem that people are like, well, our

458
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: problem is we're not funding the police enough is no,

459
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: Like this is if if policing was the answer, then

460
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: the US would be the safest place and exactly and

461
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: that's the quite frankly, that's the simple truth. They don't

462
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: want to acknowledge, right, If policing in public safety is synonymous,

463
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: and why why are these not the safest places? And

464
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: constantly the places that are giving more and more more

465
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 1: money to police are also the same people whose media

466
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 1: is constantly committed to this whole crime wave. Crime is up.

467
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: All of this is the next thing that's New York

468
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: is a is a prime example of a place that

469
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: presents it like it sounds like it's it's progressive utopia,

470
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 1: and we give literally not nuh ten point four it

471
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: was ten point four billion dollars to them, might be

472
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: d be raised it They just got two hundred and

473
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 1: sixty more a billion dollars even though they cut from education,

474
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: they cut from the parks, they cut from housing, they

475
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: cut everywhere else, But and yp D more money. Meanwhile,

476
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: what's happened? They continue to say the Post, you let

477
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: the Post sell it. Prime is crime is constantly raising.

478
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 1: Oh my god. But and YPD has never defunded. They've

479
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: gotten more money. Everything else is defunded. We see evictions up, education,

480
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: all kind of housing issues, homelessness is spiked, and it's like,

481
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: why is that just complete? That's what I love is this.

482
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: There's this feigned ignorance that politicians and media do with stuff.

483
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: It's like, Oh, conveniently, you see all these eviction moratoriums

484
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: and lifted, You're a victim. People seven in the same breafter,

485
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: like the problem that is homelessness, Where is this coming from? Right? Oh,

486
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: it couldn't have anything to do with the pandemic. Just

487
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: we just had where businesses were closed, y'all, Like y'all

488
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: lifted eviction moratoriums, y'all have the jails from them, Like

489
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: it's not a coincidence. I it's interesting, interesting, especially with

490
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: homelessness and all the big cities. It's like it's like

491
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: New York City, New York City, l A. I think

492
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: those are two prime places that talk about homelessness like

493
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: it's their job to do so. They're two of the

494
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: most expensive cities in the world, not even just the

495
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: country in the world. People aren't homeless because they want

496
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: to be homeless home because so they can't afford they

497
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: cannot afford to live. That that's just the reality of it.

498
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: And instead I were talking about, you know, livable wages

499
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: or what rent is actually increased to. You know, New

500
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: York City is constantly talking about how our homelessness is increased,

501
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: but our rent is also increased. The average costs and

502
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: right right now New York City is over four thousand

503
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: dollars a month. Man, it's absurd. And I think the

504
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: problem too is so many people are out of touch

505
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: and don't have honest conversations about it. And I think

506
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: it's because they also don't really know, Like I am

507
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: a public defender, so I yeah, yeah, not only do

508
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: I represent poor people, but I'm also not well paid myself,

509
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 1: and my apartment my apartment, and I just got this

510
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: through New York City's affordable housing right, affordable housing in

511
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 1: the one, the housing lottery. My apartment is right, like

512
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: if you get a worm of that is what average person,

513
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: the people who really really need, and that's as a lawyer,

514
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: that's someone who was how's the average person gonna afford that?

515
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: And also the average person can't even qualified for it

516
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: because the amount of hoops they make you jump through

517
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: to secure the apartments. And how it works is so

518
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: they like in New York City, the affordable housing lottery

519
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: works like this, they let you know, so gentrification. They

520
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: buy these buildings up in these neighbors like I live

521
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: in Flatbush in Brooklyn, and then they charged the whole

522
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: building is priced that like six times more than what

523
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 1: the rest of the neighborhood is. So then you price

524
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: out the people already live in the neighborhood and they

525
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: can't get there. And then what they'll do is they'll

526
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: take like a couple of units in the building like

527
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: mine and say this is affordable, but it's actually just

528
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: four times lass than the rest of the neighborhood as

529
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: opposed to six exactly. And so you get people who

530
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: are still the people who are most in need. They're

531
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: only like, like I mean, the smallest handful of places

532
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: that they can actually afford in the affordable lottery. So

533
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: it's just a mythic. The reality of these homelessness, poverty,

534
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: all these things are a direct response to the ways

535
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: that our government is already failing these people in their communities.

536
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: And that's just the conversations they don't want to have.

537
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: And they pretend there's no people who say to address

538
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: it that way. Don't care about crying or you you

539
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: you know, you want lawlessness, so you want anarchy and

540
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: that's not the case. Yeah. So in response to that

541
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: Biden speech, CBS News just this is this is how

542
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: they tweeted it. The Safer American plan aimed at reducing

543
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: gun crime is based on a quote simple notion, says

544
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,479
Speaker 1: President Biden. The answer is not to defund the police.

545
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: It's fund to the police. He adds, we expect them

546
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: to do everything to protect us, to be psychologists, to

547
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: be sociologists. But like that, nothing else that. So they're

548
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: just pasting his talking points into a tweet and putting

549
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,959
Speaker 1: it out there. And that's how our media does, I mean,

550
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: that's how our literally does. It regurgitates like politicians and

551
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: especially police and narratives as pure fact. There is no

552
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: questioning of it. Just this is what the said. So

553
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: this is this is the factual matter of it. And

554
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: the problem is the average person is a consumer, not

555
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: and not even as a negative to them, right, the

556
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: average the average person is busy dealing with their own

557
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: own life in the trials and tribulations, and they're not

558
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: being you know, health to it. So they read information

559
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: and they say, all right, I don't have time to

560
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: research this or assume there's more to it. So if

561
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: I'm constantly fed that, like, you know, police are a necessity.

562
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: You know, police are the necessity. You know, they're the

563
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: people who find themselves in the criminal system, there in

564
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: some way to blame for their own circumstances. And you know,

565
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: the system is about producing this outcomes, even when they

566
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: hear about police brutality or for what for them, it

567
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: seems like an outline or a mistake or the system

568
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: you know, going wrong as opposed to this is what

569
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: it produces every day. Yeah, I mean the media portrays

570
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: the asserted motivation. So this is from Alec Karrikin Santis

571
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: who's an abolitionist also, Yeah, so he he was saying that,

572
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: like the media portrays the asserted motivations of powerful people

573
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: as their actual motivations. Like this is how capaganda. Like

574
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: they will just say whatever the police say they were

575
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: trying to do was what theyre they like, without any criticism.

576
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: It's like if it's like if they reported that BP

577
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: is actually an organization that is designed for taking care

578
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: of the climate, addressing climate change, because there's an ad

579
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: that BP puts out that says that ship and they

580
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: it's just like that that's a good trick. And like

581
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: everybody listening should always like watch how the media will

582
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: just take at face value anything a powerful person says

583
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: about their motives. But then somebody who is you know,

584
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: killed by the police, arrested by the police, you know

585
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: that their motives will immediately be called into questions. Anybody

586
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: who's not powerful will immediately like it'll be thrown up

587
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: as like we don't know what they were doing there,

588
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: We don't know. However, people and police their opinions, their

589
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: their story, their narrative is treated as fact at any

590
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: level of push back to that is a conspiracy or

591
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 1: something that needs to be investigated, because like the one

592
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: step further, even in media, when you try like when

593
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: I try to, when you write off ads and things

594
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: like this, even if you make the entire argument right,

595
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: you have everything sort like cited for why you believe this, right,

596
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: this is the actual motivated motivation behind whatever the police

597
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: are doing, other politicians are doing. You decided to a

598
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: million facts. They'll say, well, the police didn't. They didn't

599
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: say that, you know what I mean, like, oh, into

600
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: your opinion, they'll take that out, Oh, we don't. We

601
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: can't say, we can't speak to their motivations. You know,

602
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: if it's always this desire to give them the benefit

603
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: of the doubt that does not exist in our society

604
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: legally any other way, Like when you think about it,

605
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: even if we look at how police investigations are conducted

606
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: in America. If I if I call if Miles, if

607
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: I call the police and I say, Miles sent me

608
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: thirty and text messages cussing my ass out you in

609
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: New York City, you best believe you could be arrested

610
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: and charged with activated arresting me in the third degree.

611
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: I represented many people. All you need is the accusation.

612
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: But when it comes to police, when it comes to politicians,

613
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: you could watch the whole incident on video investing investigation

614
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: and the police get to d a's officers, and the

615
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: police officers get to invest gate themselves, you know, investigate

616
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: themselves and say, ah, know, our intentions were pure. It

617
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: was this all these different things. But usually if you

618
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: say it in court any other time, obviously anybody affused

619
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: the crime and tell the court you know, no, we

620
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: deny this. Our story is this, and you know what

621
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: they say, that's an issue for trial, that's an issue

622
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: for the jury. That's that is your argument. Everybody is

623
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: the right to make an argument, but not when it

624
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: comes to the police. The police get to make their

625
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: argument and decide, oh, no charges should come. That's a

626
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: cap that's what I heard. Ye, yes, there must be

627
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: There must always be something you are not seeing, some

628
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: other way to spin it. You know how many times,

629
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: how many different cases have you seen? You've watched police

630
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: brutality on video and then they tell you to an

631
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: investigation and you don't hear anything for a year or

632
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: two when you when you finally look back, quietly, no

633
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: charges were brought up. The Prosper's office declined to bring charges, right,

634
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: And they're always and they're always on the leave with pay, yes,

635
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,239
Speaker 1: always always on some paid administrative leave. The one thing, too,

636
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: is like you know, I think because we've allowed like

637
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: just this consistent definition of crime to just be like

638
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: the dominant narrative of like crime is when bad people

639
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: do bad ship. That's what crime is. There's not we

640
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: have such a crumbling society that people are merely trying

641
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: to survive and do things to survive and doing things

642
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: that just that you would think, oh, I would never

643
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: do that, but that's maybe you from your perspective where

644
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: you have a safety net, some kind of support system,

645
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: where others purely are trying to survive. And I think

646
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: that allows constantly for cops to be like, yeah, you

647
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: know these people are bad or whatever. It's like, I

648
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: don't know somebody who's stealing like food, I don't know what,

649
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: like I'm not, I don't I don't see TikTok videos

650
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: of people being like yo, this is how I got

651
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: a lambo because I'm stealing food and then like flipping it.

652
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: That's not what we're talking about. And I think it

653
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: allows for this constant like dehumanization of people, which easily

654
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,800
Speaker 1: allows them, like for people to have like this, you know,

655
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: easy thought pattern to occur, which is cops said they're bad.

656
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: That's bad. I don't know why they're bad. But if

657
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: they're bad, and their criminals, and that's crime, and that's

658
00:34:58,280 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: I don't need to have. I don't need to have

659
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: empathy for right. And what I think also is important

660
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,280
Speaker 1: is that they don't know one No one uh stops

661
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: to discuss the fact that the quote unquote victims of

662
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: crime and perpetrators are crime and the same people the

663
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 1: same community. Right, Like how in the same breath, if

664
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 1: if web designate all these specific areas and communities as

665
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: high crime areas, right, all the poor communities, all the

666
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: black communities, all the people of color communities, right, those

667
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,919
Speaker 1: are these are high crime areas. So that being said,

668
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 1: these are also the people that are the victims of crimes.

669
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: So the same communities that you're heavily policing and you're incarcerating,

670
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 1: you feel like they are so bad they need to

671
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: be punished, and you do all these punitive things that

672
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: prevent them from every getting out hole You're punishing the

673
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: exact same community you claim you want to be helping.

674
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: So it's just so obviously logically inconsistent. And I think

675
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: that's a problem with something I I would think about

676
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: as a public defender is when you meet your clients,

677
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: you are they've already been failed in some way. This

678
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: is not the first time, you know, the system has

679
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 1: harmed them. Anybody that I represent in which is the

680
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: vast majority of people that are in the criminal system,

681
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: are destitute poor, like can't afford an attorney because I

682
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: wouldn't follow five from my own services and I could

683
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 1: not afford my own services or an attorney. Services is astronomical.

684
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,359
Speaker 1: So the average person is in in the criminal system

685
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: are people who are not seeing any money at all completely.

686
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: And if you see that and you say, okay, these

687
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: are people already don't have any money they don't have

688
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 1: any resources, and now all right, I'm gonna put you

689
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: in the criminal system. You gotta rap sheet together this

690
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: Not only are they suffering their children, suffering the whole community,

691
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: their family, and it just is constantly regurgitating cycles and

692
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: cycles of poverty. And also in addition to that, when

693
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: we tend to end the analysis of crimes of poverty

694
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 1: and like what it's direct, like in a sense, oh,

695
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 1: I'm poor, so I can't buy food, so I school food.

696
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: And they were like, all right, those we can understand that,

697
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: you know, those of us, and there left to be

698
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: people they can reconcile themselves with that person you know,

699
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: doesn't deserve to be prosecuted. But it also comes to

700
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: people that are committing assault, or they're you know, they're fighting,

701
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: or they're cursing people out, or they're doing why do

702
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:51,839
Speaker 1: you think that happens? Always tell people I am far

703
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:53,359
Speaker 1: more likely to slap the shut out of you if

704
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: my rent can't get paid. You know what I mean?

705
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: If I when the times in my life, when my

706
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: life is good, when my things are paid for adequately,

707
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: I am so much nicer. I will deal with things

708
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: so much better. I am so much willing to be

709
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: a reasonable But but if life is on you, if

710
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: life is on you, you got you got a father

711
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: in jail, you can't you know, you've got a mother

712
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,439
Speaker 1: with medical bills you try to pay for. You don't

713
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: have health and journs, you can't get to school, you're

714
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 1: losing your apartment, all these different things. You're more likely

715
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 1: to fight somebody, you know what I mean. You're more

716
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: likely to respond to life issues in the worst way.

717
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: You're more likely to feel like, oh, I have to

718
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: go sell drums, I have to do these different things.

719
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: And so it's a it's a much larger, larger phenomenon

720
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: and problem in the way that poverty relates to these outcomes. Yeah,

721
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 1: because cops are just like the room buh that that

722
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: suck up the failure of our capitalist system. Yeah, it's

723
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, we're just here to clean that up.

724
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,720
Speaker 1: No real, not about it. They're they're one They're one branch.

725
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: They're one bad branch on the whole battery. That's what

726
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: I like to see it. You know, we tend to focus,

727
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: we focus on police, and then we end the narrative there,

728
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: and I think that's what what can become problematic right.

729
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,399
Speaker 1: It's like when I'm in the criminal and when I'm

730
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,760
Speaker 1: in court, I'm not. It's not like it's just the police,

731
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: the police, the judge, the court officer as the prosecutor,

732
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: all on the same team. You by yourself. It's only

733
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: you and your client on this agenda, right, you. The

734
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: entire system is set up this way. Police might arrest people,

735
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: but as the prosecutors who got to decide to bring

736
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: in charges. It's judges, you know, um convicting people sentence

737
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 1: and people listens because they're all, you know, in tandem.

738
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 1: And also the laws of the prosecutors and the police

739
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: officers are and the judges are enforcing and using. The

740
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: legislators are the ones who wrote them all this determinate sentencing.

741
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: They're all they're all make you know, and part of

742
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 1: a concerted and a concerted effort. So let me we

743
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: end the analysis and condemned the police as one officer

744
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 1: should be we should be charged, or this should happen

745
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: this way, and then we're confused as to how the

746
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: system keeps reproducing the exact same results. Yeah. Like, so

747
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: Biden reference the defund the police movement by being like,

748
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: we don't need to defund we need to fund. But

749
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: MPR is also like MPR just published an article that

750
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: claimed and I actually heard this on MPR. We we

751
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 1: make fun of MPR alaw about the show for just

752
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 1: like being a s MR for neo libs, but they

753
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: also like are they report some damaging ships sometimes when

754
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 1: this report was just basically being like crimes gone way

755
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: up and people aren't getting caught anymore because of the

756
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: defund the police. And the thing they based it on

757
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:21,839
Speaker 1: was something that like a random person who they interviewed said.

758
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 1: It wasn't like an expert, it wasn't based on statistics.

759
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 1: This is the this is the key once sourcing. Anthony

760
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 1: branch six got into trouble for carrying a gun when

761
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: he was a team watching the gun culture in his neighborhood.

762
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: He thinks more miners and felons are carrying guns illegally

763
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: now for one simple reason quote defund the police. As

764
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: he put it, that is connect anything ishness. They know

765
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: it right, like think about it. Courtrooms. Courtrooms are technically

766
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: public right of court. The courts are open to the public.

767
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 1: Anybody can can come in there and sit there. But

768
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: yet we're not allowed to record or take picture of

769
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: anything that's happened in courtant No one's allowed to court,

770
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,479
Speaker 1: you know, lawyers were not allowed to because the appage person.

771
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 1: People cannot go sit in courtrooms and go watch entire

772
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: corporate that's not gonna happen, right, But if people did,

773
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: and people saw what actually happens in corps, what's the

774
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: average thing that is a crime or what people are

775
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,399
Speaker 1: being prosecuted for, and how it's being treated, they would

776
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: feel differently about it. So what they do is they

777
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: take these sensationalized story They produce shows like Law and

778
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: Order and everything else that's on our TV, and it

779
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 1: treats crime people think of cry Like people so often

780
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: say to me, I have represented over a thousand people

781
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: in very few cases or anything that's like salacious or

782
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 1: wild or anybody who done so Like it's just just

783
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: regular everyday life things that you wouldn't even realize or criminalized.

784
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 1: When I first became a public defender, it was jarring

785
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: to be realizing how much ship I could have been

786
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: arrested for if I just happened to be criminalized, you

787
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Or if if they lived in

788
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: a certain society like the entire Bahamas, which is where

789
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,760
Speaker 1: I'm from. The entire every Behaman person would be behind

790
00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: bars in American's criminal system absolutely immediately, just whole way

791
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 1: to be engaged. I want to represented a lady who

792
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: got arrested like shortly after giving birth to her child

793
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 1: because like a woman was saxon and like arguing with

794
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: her like during like during laboring, and she was like,

795
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: fuck you whatever, don't play you know what I mean

796
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: something like that, and they arrested them with pro agrivated arrassment.

797
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: In the third they do stuff like that. I I

798
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: represented so many people where they arrest them because they

799
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 1: were banging on their own door because they locked the door.

800
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: They locked themselves out. Now they charge you with criminal

801
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: mischief and say, well you don't actually this is a

802
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 1: nightsha building. You will own that door. So yeah, yeah,

803
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: that's the nonsense. Amount of people in who have been

804
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: saddened wrikers because of traffic violations things that they literally yes,

805
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: it's absurd, it's absurd. So you know, they intentionally keep

806
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 1: that stuff away from you, and then they choose these

807
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: choose these outlier cases and sensationalized the system and so

808
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 1: people think of everybody that's in jail as other they

809
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: don't think of them as you know, you are more

810
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: disturbing exactly. But if you actually, you know, put a

811
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: magnifying First of all, you put a magnifying glass on anybody,

812
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 1: and it probably don't know, have to be a good

813
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: magnifying glass. They're committing in form of crime. They're doing

814
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: something that's technically illegally illegal because America's overbroad. Yeah, they

815
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: can find a way, yea, yeah, absolutely, it'd all be

816
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 1: in jail. Show. All right, let's take a quick break.

817
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: We'll be right back to kind of continue talking about

818
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: this and law and Order the TV show, not the

819
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 1: broad concept. And we're back, and you know, as we

820
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: were talking about before the break, like this kind of

821
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: brings up the question of you know that now we

822
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: we had I think I've heard you talk about the

823
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,919
Speaker 1: fact that like the alignm me that like the Black

824
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 1: Lives Matter movement in was could be considered like one

825
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 1: of the largest like social civil rights movements. And now

826
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 1: the main way we hear about it in the mainstream

827
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: media is like these things being like we don't got

828
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 1: to defund the police, got a fund the police, and

829
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: like NPR like blaming it for a straight up murder.

830
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 1: So this like kind of raised the question, why is

831
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 1: this particular lie so just deeply like so hard to

832
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 1: shake that like violent armed police and human caging are

833
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 1: the only way to deal with things, And you know,

834
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 1: there's it's structurally integral to our society. It's like a

835
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: lie that is undergirds all of the white supremacy everything.

836
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: And that's your answer, it's definitely under That's why something

837
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: doesn't become the status quo because the majority isn't invested

838
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 1: in like defending and maintaining That's the why. But one

839
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: of the like how I guess questions of like how

840
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: they got everybody to like kind of go along with

841
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: it is you pointed out. And our super producer Tricia

842
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 1: mccargee is joining us to talk about your your argument

843
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,919
Speaker 1: in a piece for Team Vogue about like Law and Order,

844
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: the TV show and just you know, copaganda in general,

845
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 1: being like creating this standard narrative where the cops are

846
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: the protagonist. Yeah, I mean, it's it's an everage. So

847
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 1: I guess I tried to look at it common sensically

848
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 1: and I think I have the benefit of my My

849
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: family is Behyman. They live in the Bahamas, so this

850
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: isn't their society at all, but we watched the same

851
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: things we're watching. My mother so often responds to me,

852
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 1: who is in the Bahamas. You don't vote here, you

853
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: don't live here. She don't have no reason to be

854
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 1: invested here. But she is child and my mummy and

855
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: them is a heavy a heavy copagan in the house.

856
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: My mom and them go on order, snapped all of it.

857
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 1: My mommy is watching it all and she loves it. Okay,

858
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 1: her boy uh stayed learn them. She'll she'd be ready

859
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 1: to fight me in the house over this stuff. And

860
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: I recognized, you know, and I thought about it early

861
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: on from jump is one of the first things we

862
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 1: teach people. You know, it's like, oh this, you know,

863
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 1: nine on one we teach little children. You know, this

864
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,879
Speaker 1: is not your here's your parents number, Here's nine one one.

865
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: You know, you play cops and robbers, Cops and the

866
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: good guys. Rubbers are bad. Everything you watch has, you know,

867
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: protict protagonist antagonists. Antagonist is automatically treated as the villain.

868
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: And then so many things beyond just the amount to

869
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: share volume of shows that we have. It's just the

870
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,919
Speaker 1: rat capaganda, like going on a see aside, and even

871
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 1: like Lucifer TV shows, like so many of them have this.

872
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 1: But I thought about this eave another day with like

873
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 1: cartoons you watch and you don't even realize it, Like

874
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 1: I was a big papa for girls like big Big

875
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,280
Speaker 1: and tababa girls like love me some Papa girls, Okay,

876
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: And I realized the other day, and I'm like, why

877
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 1: didn't they notice that these three logals was agent to

878
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 1: the stakes, beating people down to the white meat. The

879
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: minute the mayor call them up, like you ain't never

880
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 1: noticed that, like the whole that's literally what it is.

881
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: The Popera girls, the mayor calls them up, red button, heyy,

882
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: we just heard some funk them up. Meeting is the

883
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 1: man they see him then the whole this episode, they

884
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: see Mojo doing the food, so Moo is trying to

885
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,320
Speaker 1: buy some groceries. They beat him and they beat his

886
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 1: ass down and everybody right, like if you even think

887
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: about Mojo Jojo, the whole town's people, all the towns

888
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: people look like the powerpup girls Apricot called white people

889
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 1: just like Professor X right, all all of the all

890
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: the villains, Mojo, Jojo, Green, Fuzzy Lumpkin, pig, the gang Green,

891
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,919
Speaker 1: Gang is green, The boogey Man is blue, him is red.

892
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: All the people of color are villain criminals. Again they

893
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: asked seven, and you realize like eventually everything you watch

894
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 1: is kind of treated like this, like this is what

895
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 1: we've designated is good and this is what we've designated

896
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: as bad, and nothing in between really matters. It don't matter.

897
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: You don't see, don't do process and the you know,

898
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 1: and you watch, like, but it really is like that,

899
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: how much of things are you watching? It shows you

900
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: you want. It shows you that the police are breaking

901
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: the law, like they're right to be in violent it's

902
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: showing you how the police has to because this bad

903
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: guy or they're constrained. I watched the Chippen Chane, the

904
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: Chippendale rescue movie the other day, and it was the

905
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: same ship like, oh, the police, the police were working

906
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 1: with Chippendale to try to get Peter pad in them

907
00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: and the police are like, oh, we want to do something,

908
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 1: but we can't Chippendale because you know these constitutional rights

909
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: and stuff. So Chippendale were like ships always Yeah, due

910
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: process is treated as like it's never been in a

911
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:16,399
Speaker 1: single movie. It's like, yeahs the only the only person

912
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 1: who brings in up due processes, like about to get

913
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 1: their heads smashed into their desk by Russell Crowe before

914
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: out and catches the bag. Yes, yes, and like all

915
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: jokes aside like that. That is something like we don't

916
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 1: realize how much we're like how we're taught to perceive

917
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: the world isn't green and stuff, like even Lucifer, Lucifer

918
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: is the literal fucking devil, Like he's Satan. He's literally Satan,

919
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 1: and for for Satan to be redeemed in the eyes

920
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 1: of God in the world he works with the l

921
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: A p. D Like a dead ass. That's the plot

922
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: of the show. Like that's the plot of the show,

923
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 1: and you know it's the only person they matter of fact,

924
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 1: he is saying it's gonna go to hell. The defense

925
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: attorney and in order to go to heaven, she had

926
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 1: to quit the defense and the angle become a d

927
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: A and then they goes to heaven because the defense

928
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 1: attorneys just trying to get bad guys off the hook,

929
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,320
Speaker 1: and like it's all the world. Yeah, And you realize

930
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 1: when you watch TV and you think about it more,

931
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: you see it in everything that person they're always the

932
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: bag out with the poor character whoever it is, they're

933
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 1: bad there this it's like that, it's like that. It's

934
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 1: funny that you bring up the l a p D. Right,

935
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 1: because Tricia, you point out, like the kind of l

936
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: a p D kind of has it. Yeah, right, exactly.

937
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 1: So I read your article. First of all, your work

938
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 1: is amazing, it's so cool. But yeah, so I just

939
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 1: started going a little bit deeper into this copaganda in

940
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 1: TV shows around your kind, and I'm one interesting thing

941
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: I found out was, of course, like the media has

942
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 1: always supported the police through the US the history of

943
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: the country, but in the nineteen fifties it was actually

944
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 1: formalized because this actor, director Web, he made this deal

945
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: with the l a p D. Where if the l

946
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: a p D would allow him to access police equipment

947
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 1: and quickly approved permits and get off duty officers as

948
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 1: extras in his movies, he allowed the l a p

949
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,879
Speaker 1: D to read over his scripts and basically just veto

950
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: anything that they didn't like. So of course they're not

951
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: going to approve anything where the cops are portrayed as bad.

952
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 1: And then this has just been the standards set in

953
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:29,919
Speaker 1: Hollywood and just set in TV and movie industry where

954
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 1: the police is literally controlling what we see on the

955
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: screen in a lot of ways. Yes, absolutely absolutely realized

956
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: it so much more. I have a friend who who

957
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: was writing the script the other day like entertainment, and

958
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 1: he had like just not even thinking about it because

959
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: it's so like into shows that when you think about

960
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 1: public defenders are depicted in all media and we're depicted

961
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: as bombs, right like bums. Anytime you see a public

962
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: defender and anything like they're dropping the files and it's

963
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: a way, it's how and it's how this this them

964
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 1: like goals and blames and it's so funny because that

965
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 1: has so much you know a lot of how your

966
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 1: relationship plays out, which your clients has everything to do

967
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 1: it with their initial even perception of you is and

968
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 1: if a public of a public defender gets blamed, like

969
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: when you think the money is attributed is in these

970
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 1: day ways deliberately a public defender is underfunded, but the

971
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: prosecutor's office is are not but we're funded by the

972
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: exact same ant teams we're offosed across out we're doing

973
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 1: the same level of worklow but it's deliberately set up

974
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: where the public defenders are ill equipped right, and even

975
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: when in that system, like public defenders yet blamed for

976
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: plea deals or or present you with the police, which

977
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 1: is you you are obligated. You have to present whatever

978
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: it is the police offer. But the police offers made

979
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 1: better prosecutors. The reason why you even have to tell them, oh,

980
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 1: you should probably take a plea because this is what's

981
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: likely to happen at trial, because the determinate sentencing that

982
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 1: my legislators and what the judge is going to punish you.

983
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 1: It's so many different ways the system is actively doing

984
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: all these different things. But how does our media spin

985
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: into people, oh, if you could afford to have is

986
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: these is these broadcasts by mass public defenders that are

987
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: causing you to go to jail and again. And it all,

988
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: you know, relates back to poverty in general, because even

989
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 1: in a world where we pretended the problem was the

990
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,440
Speaker 1: public defender, the problem is this this public defender that's

991
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 1: still a reflection to the fact the majority of the

992
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 1: people in the criminal system are poor, you know, and

993
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 1: they're being represented by public defenders as opposed they can't

994
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:14,280
Speaker 1: afford pay representation. Not that it's true that public defenders

995
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 1: are all equipped, but even if that was the case,

996
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 1: and it's not like the court doesn't know. I think

997
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 1: something people forget to people and I and I and

998
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: I appreciate that people are optimistic or they have I

999
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 1: don't know, more faith in their in their actors. But

1000
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,359
Speaker 1: the court knows everything else that you tell the rest

1001
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 1: of the society that shocks their conscience and gets them

1002
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 1: to see like, oh, the system is messed up, and

1003
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 1: they think, oh, we need to get that inform. Like

1004
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 1: the people in power, the people doing it don't know.

1005
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: I was signed by the court. The person who sets

1006
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 1: the bail is the same person that just said this

1007
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 1: person has no money, they can't afford a lawyer. And

1008
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 1: I'm also gonna set my bad money on them for

1009
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 1: bill because you're gonna now you're gonna go to jail

1010
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 1: for something you haven't make. They know it's deliberately done

1011
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 1: that way, and I want I actually in law school,

1012
00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: I went to a prosecutor mill for a law school.

1013
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 1: I was like the only public defender of my class.

1014
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,879
Speaker 1: Everybody else's prosecutor. But in going to that prosc oh yeah,

1015
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: trust me, scress and go into that prosecutor mill. You know,

1016
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 1: they pressured me to do an internship at the d

1017
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 1: a's office one summer, and it it went the way

1018
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 1: you would think a person like me in the d A. Listen.

1019
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 1: It was terrible, but I remember the one thing I

1020
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,839
Speaker 1: appreciate is I confirmed that all of the horrible things

1021
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 1: that I think academically, you think like, oh, you have

1022
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 1: to parse out racism, and you more so think it's like, oh,

1023
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 1: if my statistically look at the numbers, you'll realize it's racist. Nah,

1024
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,720
Speaker 1: that's upfront, Like up front there they're actively like trying

1025
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 1: to force and muscle people asigned supportingt that positions. And

1026
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: because people don't know how it actually works in the

1027
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: maneuvers and what you know, what happens from on the

1028
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 1: legal end. So they'll be like, you're bringing people and

1029
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, I don't want to I don't want

1030
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 1: to press charges. I don't want a criminal case. So

1031
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: I want them to have you know, therapy. I want

1032
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:51,839
Speaker 1: them to get this. And they'll be like, oh, well,

1033
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 1: you're just supporting. If you signed the supporting that position,

1034
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 1: I could get them counseling or whatever. They really mean.

1035
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 1: It's signed this and now I have the document I

1036
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: need to proceed on this criminal case for this person.

1037
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:02,800
Speaker 1: And in the case of there's a certain amount of

1038
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 1: days where if that's not signed or they don't have

1039
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: that paperwork, if you have somebody in on bail they

1040
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 1: have to come out, you'll feel like you have to

1041
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:10,280
Speaker 1: get them out. So what they do is they force

1042
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:13,279
Speaker 1: muscle these people sign it. Sign it now, you know.

1043
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 1: And then now this person is stuck in jail. So

1044
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 1: now they're forced to take a plea or want to,

1045
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: you know, negotiate with you a police because they're literally

1046
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 1: gonna sit in prison until on a case there and

1047
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: you were never gonna be able to prosecute, they were

1048
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 1: never gonna be able to get convicted of or whatever.

1049
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 1: But now they're in this position and so and that's

1050
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: that's the unfortunate reality. Like people and rikers. People they

1051
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 1: hear about places like Wrikers, but they don't realize, right,

1052
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 1: because it's a pretty trial attention center. If you hear

1053
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: about something that is this infamously awful place, you think

1054
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 1: it's great, infamously awful people. You don't realize it's anybody

1055
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:46,320
Speaker 1: that gets arrested in New York City for anything, trafficking, fashion, jumping,

1056
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 1: the turnstyle, whatever you don't have money. That's where you're at.

1057
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 1: And and Rikers isn't even the worst of its kind.

1058
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 1: You have Cook County in Chicago, where the average person

1059
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 1: is waiting, waiting for their trial in prison for the

1060
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 1: six years, eight years, some people in their eleven years

1061
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 1: doing full bates on things they have not even had

1062
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: a trial on. It's absurd, but that's how the that's

1063
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 1: how to stack it, right, And we and I think

1064
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: because of that like sort of gap between what the

1065
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: lived experiences of the people who are actually grappling with

1066
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: the system and then like the writer's rooms that are

1067
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 1: then like I don't know, like I'm rich, and like

1068
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: we got off because we got a like a good lawyer.

1069
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 1: I think that probably feeds into this problem as well. Right,

1070
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 1: my dad got me a good lawyer when I was

1071
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: arrested in college for pissing in the street. Right, And

1072
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 1: that's and that's another trope you see a lot, because

1073
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 1: I think you're seeing these writers reflect back what even

1074
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 1: their own experience was, Like I fucking ran over a

1075
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 1: homeless guy, but I got how many how many times

1076
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:42,839
Speaker 1: you watch The White Show and a character like gets

1077
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 1: arrested and they're they're out like the next scene, and

1078
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 1: you never hear about it for the arrest of the show,

1079
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, No case, no doubt that

1080
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 1: that that's how it's treated, because that is often very

1081
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 1: much in reality. Even on the rare occasion, like I said,

1082
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 1: I represented over a thousand people, I probably have not

1083
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: represented thirty people like they were that many. When even

1084
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: I remember all my white clients by name because they're

1085
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:08,840
Speaker 1: few and farm between, and they're always sucking outraged, outraged

1086
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 1: that they're and then I can I'll listen, no one

1087
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 1: more outraged for you than a white person that's been arrested.

1088
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 1: They would call you every I use of a white

1089
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 1: client called me every day and go so people can

1090
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,520
Speaker 1: just lie on me and I can go every day.

1091
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 1: He couldn't believe. He could not wrap her head around there.

1092
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 1: And that's so that's often with the experiences, because even

1093
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: when I have them, they get they dismissed it. At Raymonds,

1094
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 1: They're dismissed it right then they would offer them. I

1095
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: once had a white guy was on a motorcycle, did

1096
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: a high speed chase from he high speed chase on

1097
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 1: his motorcycle. The plase, I mean, he was really he

1098
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 1: was really on ten get like gets into an accident,

1099
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: jumps off the bike, keeps fucking running, dumps defense. They

1100
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 1: eventually get to him. They dismissed it at Raymonds. They

1101
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 1: would never have done that ship like I I even

1102
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 1: one time I represented like back to back, so same

1103
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 1: Arraymond Shift, Literally I have their files. Did this one

1104
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:04,399
Speaker 1: immediately did the same judge, same prosecutor represented a black

1105
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:06,399
Speaker 1: eye who was accused of having one blunt. They asked

1106
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 1: for like thirty five dollars bail on him right right

1107
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 1: immediately right after graphly when a white guy who was

1108
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 1: found with a bunch of drugs like dealer dealer, white

1109
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 1: dealer consent to release like they' and what's the ground?

1110
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 1: Or one time I represented a white girl who was

1111
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 1: accused of some wild ship, like some wild ship, and

1112
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:31,880
Speaker 1: I remember looking, I could see the prosecutor next to me.

1113
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:33,839
Speaker 1: You could see their files right like across I could

1114
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 1: so I could see the pictures of the victim in

1115
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 1: the in the case and who was an Arab guy.

1116
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: I could see the pictures of the victim in the hospital.

1117
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 1: So when I see you the bus is at bail,

1118
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh fuck, she's going on to Janiel, like

1119
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 1: they're about to show those pictures like they bought you

1120
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 1: know what I mean. There was a white prosecutor. She

1121
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 1: just closed the file and consented to release. She just

1122
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:53,359
Speaker 1: didn't say ship about the vision. And I'm not gonna

1123
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 1: sit like that's my client. But I'm like I remember

1124
00:56:56,120 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 1: that day being like an application, like, oh, Sin's a

1125
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 1: different fucking system. This is not something I have to

1126
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 1: academically pars out. This is happening real life. Like I'm

1127
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:08,840
Speaker 1: looking at them like, hey, yo, y'all know that I

1128
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,359
Speaker 1: saw y'all just not do this for the black people,

1129
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 1: Like I'm here, I'm witnessing it, and it's like or

1130
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 1: I'll call you. Yeah, they literally call you when it's

1131
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 1: your white clones. The way they talk about it. The

1132
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 1: prosecutor is entirely different. Mill They're like that same case

1133
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 1: with the white girl with the with the Arab victim.

1134
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 1: The prosecutor was like this a beanerful and they called

1135
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 1: me because they wanted to prosecute the Arab guy who

1136
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 1: was in the hospital based on what she's saying. They

1137
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: they know to some degree that she sucked him up.

1138
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 1: He's in the hospital. She's just saying that he did

1139
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: something too, and now they called me like, oh, they

1140
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: want to charge him for a felony because they can't

1141
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 1: talk to my client, you know, without my permission. And

1142
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 1: the prosecutor said to me, were like, oh, well, you know,

1143
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 1: you know she's accused of whatever to him, but you know,

1144
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 1: apparently you know, he lied, he lied. I've never had

1145
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 1: that's my story. My story is always to my client,

1146
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 1: didn't do it. I've never had the prosecutor credit my

1147
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 1: story to the clients. Only when I have a white

1148
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 1: client and they're like, yeah, must be some misunderstandings. Yeah, ye,

1149
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: Like with the copaganda, like I know we see like

1150
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:16,920
Speaker 1: we're talking about there's like all these terrible tropes like

1151
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:20,439
Speaker 1: cop equals good uh you know, get your good lawyer

1152
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 1: and things like that, Tia, What are like other because

1153
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 1: I think those are like that, and I think those

1154
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 1: are the most broad versions of things we see. But

1155
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 1: so many other ways that I think this quote unquote

1156
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 1: criminal justice system is represented, which I think is a

1157
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:35,919
Speaker 1: total misnomber. But what what do you what? What what else?

1158
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 1: What are the other ways that like those things are right?

1159
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 1: So of course there's there's that overarching idea that like

1160
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 1: when you have this protagonist who's a cop you're like

1161
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 1: really emotionally attached to and kind of manipulated into supporting

1162
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 1: in these movies and TV shows. If they do bad things,

1163
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 1: like you still don't consider them that. So that really

1164
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:02,240
Speaker 1: affects just the public perception of police violence. But then

1165
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 1: looking a bit deeper into it, so there's a study

1166
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 1: called Normalizing Injustice that was conducted by a nonprofit called

1167
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: Color of Change, and so they just dive deeper. They

1168
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 1: do this great numerical study and look at several different shows,

1169
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 1: and so one thing that I read about was just

1170
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 1: like disciplining cops who are violent or who do really

1171
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:26,720
Speaker 1: step out of flyne and harm the people that they're

1172
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: interacting with. So in the study they found that only

1173
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 1: three point seven percent of on screen wrong FLA actions

1174
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 1: based any investigation. So that childreally normalizes cops stepping out

1175
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 1: of flyne, hurting people and then never being punished for

1176
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: it and actually usually being supported for it. And um,

1177
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 1: I think this speeds a lot into cases like Brianna

1178
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 1: Taylor's where the cops it's like should they be like

1179
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:54,919
Speaker 1: are they going to be punished? I mean, it takes

1180
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 1: the system so long to like condemn someone for me

1181
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 1: during and and and it usually doesn't. And also we

1182
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 1: need to remember that even when there is right, like

1183
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 1: when people get their civil settlements, the comps aren't punished.

1184
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 1: Me pay for that, the cops scary, we're paying for that. Yeah,

1185
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 1: so we're paying that nothing nothing is happening at all. Yeah,

1186
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 1: and the average yes, all the phone yeah they don't.

1187
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: And a lot of cops just get away scott free,

1188
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 1: like there's just nothing done to them. Another thing that

1189
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 1: I looked into a sexual violence um so shows like

1190
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 1: SPU they portray these really great detectives working on behalf

1191
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 1: of survivors of sexual violence, but in reality, like cops

1192
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 1: perpetrate a lot of sexual violence. Exactly, cops perpetrate the

1193
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 1: sexual violence. And then when people who experience it come

1194
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 1: to the cops because that's what we're constantly told to do. Again,

1195
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 1: like since we're little, we see all these things that oh,

1196
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 1: we'll call nine one one and the cops will save

1197
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,439
Speaker 1: us from that's just so far from the truth. When

1198
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 1: we do report sexual violence, well, first of all, people

1199
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 1: are just scared because they know how fucked up the

1200
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 1: system is. But then when you do filer report the

1201
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 1: police rarely, rarely do anything, and most people who have

1202
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 1: already survived it's very traumatic experience are just dissatisfied with

1203
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 1: the response. And then finally so in terms of just

1204
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 1: reforming the criminal justice system, there is basically no discussion

1205
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 1: of that in TV and yeah no, and it's like

1206
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: a hip And that's the thing. The right they fight

1207
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 1: against any like, they completely dismiss any discussion. If you

1208
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:35,520
Speaker 1: want to talk about abolition right of the criminal system,

1209
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 1: they completely dismiss that. And though that that's a radical

1210
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,960
Speaker 1: we should be talking reform and anything, the slightest thing

1211
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 1: you suggest reform, the media then commits it's all of

1212
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 1: its energy to attacking that. Twenty four seven. You try

1213
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 1: to do bail reform, you try to do things, and

1214
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 1: then suddenly they create entire you know, propaganda and waves

1215
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 1: and discussions and stuff around around fighting that. So what

1216
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 1: it really is is they don't want any change at all.

1217
01:01:58,240 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 1: They liked the system as it is. And I think

1218
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 1: that's an important partners that whenever they're trying to say,

1219
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 1: you know, the bad Apple discussion, I'm like, well, the

1220
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 1: police disagree with you. Right in a different world, if

1221
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 1: if I have if I have no organization, and one

1222
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 1: person in my organization was was a funk up right,

1223
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 1: and I really I believe that person. What they're doing

1224
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 1: does not represent this organization. I'm not gonna fight you

1225
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 1: and must get rid of that person or you know,

1226
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 1: these people are bad. But it's the police department, it's

1227
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:23,440
Speaker 1: the police unions that say no, it was okay. Did

1228
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 1: they kill them? When did they ever? When did the

1229
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 1: police unions? When did the police departments? When did the

1230
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 1: politicians get out and tell you, yeah, that's a bad apple,

1231
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 1: Yeah that's bad. They never They stand with that officer

1232
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 1: to the very end, to the very end, and then

1233
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 1: they do everything that they can, everything that they can

1234
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 1: around beating the rest of the community into shibition. Right again,

1235
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:43,600
Speaker 1: let's say it was a bad apple. So every time

1236
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:45,280
Speaker 1: you have a bad apples, and let's think about the

1237
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:49,000
Speaker 1: numbers and that every year in America over this is

1238
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 1: just shot and killed. This is just who police are

1239
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 1: recording as they shot and killed. So that's not all

1240
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 1: your George Floyd's, that's not your Elijah mcclains, is not

1241
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 1: your Eric Garner's, that's not your Alton Sterlings. That's none

1242
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 1: of the people that are being killed in another way,

1243
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 1: and that's none of the police brutality that does not

1244
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 1: rise to down. So exclude all of that, all your

1245
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 1: Jacob Blake's the average police kill, shoot and kill over

1246
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 1: one thousand and forty five people every year in America.

1247
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 1: So let's say we got right. So we got all

1248
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 1: of those bad apples, and what maybe five of them,

1249
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 1: twelves of them for the year, maybe best case, get

1250
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 1: some kind of like large media attention. And that's the response.

1251
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 1: They immediately send out militarized police to go beat the protesters,

1252
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: go arrest the protesters, curfews, and you get a bunch

1253
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 1: of charges, to get a bunch of video show on

1254
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 1: police brutality on video. Even remember when they knocked that

1255
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 1: old white man down, that old man split his hand open.

1256
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 1: No no charges there, none of them. We just saw

1257
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 1: what yesterday. Yesterday a day before m YPD punch and

1258
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 1: beat up a nineteen year old girl and Eric Adams

1259
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 1: came up and said, oh, the officers show great restraints.

1260
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:55,200
Speaker 1: Or a few months ago, n YPD shot an eighteen

1261
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 1: year old in the head because he ran through a

1262
01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 1: red light and Eric Adams defended that too. So you

1263
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 1: see what I'm saying even if you were if you

1264
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:05,439
Speaker 1: wanted to go with the bad apple narrative, let's preturn. Okay,

1265
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 1: so we got thousands, we got thousands of bad Apples,

1266
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 1: and our police departments, the police unions, are media, are politicians,

1267
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 1: and everybody in power says no, they're not bad. So

1268
01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:24,400
Speaker 1: then what the right? Yeah, if you lost the messaging war, yeah, right,

1269
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 1: and then to to think about like how can we

1270
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 1: use media to change that? Like how can we change

1271
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:34,400
Speaker 1: that in movies and TV? And um, well yeah, as

1272
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 1: we talked about, it's just like so racialized. Um. Currently,

1273
01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 1: out of the twenty seven shows that the study covered,

1274
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 1: the show runners were white men. Out of writers, more

1275
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 1: than seventy percent were white, and only nine percent were black.

1276
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 1: So the people who are creating these shows largely don't

1277
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 1: have any experience with the with the system that we're

1278
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 1: dealing with in this country. And so in terms of

1279
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 1: just what we can do to change it, I mean,

1280
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 1: one option is just the personal option to not watch

1281
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:10,480
Speaker 1: shows that depict cops as heroes, as good people, as

1282
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 1: people who are not violent and coercive. And this could

1283
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 1: also be you know, a signal to networks that we

1284
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:18,760
Speaker 1: don't want to watch cops who are portrayed like this.

1285
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 1: Another idea is to cancel TV shows with cops in general,

1286
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:25,560
Speaker 1: and this has actually been happening, like the series Cops,

1287
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 1: which ran for around thirty years, was was canceled. I

1288
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 1: believe in um and some other networks have also cut

1289
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:38,080
Speaker 1: police reality series. But a lot of people are also saying,

1290
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 1: is that actually came back in September of last year

1291
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:47,120
Speaker 1: when people aren't paying and they announced it. Yeah, they slowly,

1292
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 1: like on Fox Nation, like their Live Pet and they

1293
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 1: just they changed the name to Live Poet too, like

1294
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:56,960
Speaker 1: on Patrol or some other dumb euphemistic or not even

1295
01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, let's say they fold us another sectly

1296
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 1: they do with propaganda two and enough. People don't call

1297
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 1: it out, but what they love to do when they

1298
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 1: portray jails and prisons in any of these shows, they

1299
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 1: had a lot of white people. There were a lot

1300
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:11,920
Speaker 1: of white people in the prisons, in the jail, so

1301
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:16,360
Speaker 1: it looks people think the system was no fucking way.

1302
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 1: Rikers is New York City. Think about how big New

1303
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 1: York City is. Rikers is over ninety five percent black

1304
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 1: and brown. Jesus like, it's not it's not this, like

1305
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 1: I saw this actually and that I was watching. I

1306
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:31,840
Speaker 1: was not watching the Flash anymore because the Flash is terrible. Man,

1307
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:33,600
Speaker 1: I was watching a video about why the Flash isn't

1308
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 1: good anymore. And like and the season they got they got,

1309
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:40,200
Speaker 1: they got the Flash in jail now, which is in

1310
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:42,480
Speaker 1: bullshit and the river Dale did this nonsense too, but

1311
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:44,960
Speaker 1: the flashes in jail and he all around the jail

1312
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 1: with none but white people. Whole jail just full of

1313
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:53,200
Speaker 1: a white people and correct right slip ship or when

1314
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:55,480
Speaker 1: inventing did y'all watch inventing Annal when that came out

1315
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:57,640
Speaker 1: on Netflix? Last was the last year and this year

1316
01:06:57,840 --> 01:06:59,520
Speaker 1: all the time, it's all you know, with the with

1317
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:04,880
Speaker 1: the that's what we writers, whole nice white, clean environment

1318
01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:07,920
Speaker 1: just like some white girls chilling out what that's what

1319
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 1: look like you didn't even get into things. A bunch

1320
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:13,920
Speaker 1: of white woods, a bunch of adasaurkins at wrikers know

1321
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 1: and like that is not that is not the case,

1322
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 1: but they make it look like that because the people

1323
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:21,960
Speaker 1: become people become so so comfortable would have been. It

1324
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 1: also becomes ingrained, you don't question question, and there's so

1325
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:28,440
Speaker 1: much too. It's even to me the scariest parts are

1326
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 1: the scariest things when it comes to developing our consciousness,

1327
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:35,040
Speaker 1: our racial shared consciousness as as a society isn't what

1328
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:37,200
Speaker 1: they explicitly tell us. That's what they don't and we

1329
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 1: don't pay attention to it. It's like when you think

1330
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:41,120
Speaker 1: about the fact that the criminal system, it's a legal system,

1331
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 1: is called the criminal justice system. That's intentional, that's inherently intentional,

1332
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:48,240
Speaker 1: because if you're the first thing you learn, you associate

1333
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 1: justice your whole concept of justice, it's criminal prosecution. That's

1334
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 1: where you know what I mean, that's what it is.

1335
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 1: You talked that from the very beginning. Yes, for you,

1336
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 1: justice is like people don't even think of any other

1337
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:01,520
Speaker 1: way to respond or that there are other ways to

1338
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 1: respond to anything or crime or problems. Right, justice is

1339
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:07,479
Speaker 1: police arrest you and Pitt the bad guy in jail.

1340
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:09,440
Speaker 1: That's what justice is the people. And then never even

1341
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 1: occurred to you to question. And I realized that in

1342
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:14,880
Speaker 1: college when my professor I was you know, running on

1343
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:16,720
Speaker 1: like I usually do about the system being racist, and

1344
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 1: you had to yeah, yeah, And my basist advisor, who's

1345
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:21,560
Speaker 1: a white lady, who was just like, um, you know,

1346
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:23,200
Speaker 1: you sound like you'd be a person who would be

1347
01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:26,200
Speaker 1: into abolition, and I was mean abolition, getting rid of

1348
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:29,479
Speaker 1: the prison altogether, no jail. Like even as even as

1349
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 1: a person who thought the criminal system, I knew the

1350
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:34,679
Speaker 1: criminal system is racist, is and just I was taught

1351
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:36,640
Speaker 1: like to think of the criminal system like how you

1352
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 1: think of water and air and oxygen, you know what

1353
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:40,600
Speaker 1: I mean? Even civil society, like you think you have

1354
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:43,080
Speaker 1: to like that as a as a foundation that must

1355
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 1: exist and you have to work from there on. How

1356
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:47,320
Speaker 1: do I correct this thing rather than the thing being

1357
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:50,040
Speaker 1: bad because you're taught that this like man made institution,

1358
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:52,720
Speaker 1: this is just you know, vital, and that to me

1359
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:55,599
Speaker 1: is a great issue. But I think as far as

1360
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:58,360
Speaker 1: how do we how do we stop seeing it that

1361
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 1: end of the day they do would be like right,

1362
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:02,519
Speaker 1: like media, if you think about it, media, just what

1363
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:05,080
Speaker 1: we're watching, our shows, how things are cast has changed

1364
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:09,240
Speaker 1: drastically present day to what it was ship just ten

1365
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:11,760
Speaker 1: years ago. Let alone even as a kid. There's so

1366
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:14,400
Speaker 1: much things that's change just because we've changed as the society.

1367
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 1: How we respond to what you think? All these things

1368
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:18,559
Speaker 1: verse ensemble casts they keep getting and stuff is because

1369
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:21,400
Speaker 1: they want to you think they diversifying the gossip gossip

1370
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:23,759
Speaker 1: girl in all these shows because they think it's cutest,

1371
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 1: because people respond in a particular way. So if you start,

1372
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:28,560
Speaker 1: you know, calling this out bit shit and data that

1373
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:31,560
Speaker 1: yeah the right bul bitch and moan on Twitter and

1374
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:34,479
Speaker 1: and true social whatever, they be making a noise. But

1375
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:36,559
Speaker 1: the reality is people who want to align their pockets

1376
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 1: will they will start making the corrections in the change

1377
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 1: because you don't want to watch it like that. So

1378
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 1: I think we gotta call out propaganda, but not just

1379
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:45,479
Speaker 1: even in the shows that explicitly have cops. It's the

1380
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:48,559
Speaker 1: way even just the idea of these kinds of systems

1381
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 1: are our hierarchies are putting everything else like. And that's

1382
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:53,640
Speaker 1: what really, to me is the more dangerous all the

1383
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:55,880
Speaker 1: things that you're watching and you don't realize that it's

1384
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:58,959
Speaker 1: like this. It's enforcing the exact same kind of dynamic

1385
01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:05,240
Speaker 1: and like power relatetions looking without the explicit police right exactly, Well,

1386
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 1: align me. It's been such a pleasure having you. We

1387
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 1: gotta have you back. This is yeah, truly an amazing guest,

1388
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 1: and I feel like I could talk to you for

1389
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:18,680
Speaker 1: a whole day. But what where can people find you,

1390
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:22,720
Speaker 1: follow you experience. You find me on Twitter at miss

1391
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 1: A Laren m s O l U R I N.

1392
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:27,800
Speaker 1: I'm back on a social media I have a sub

1393
01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:31,240
Speaker 1: stack named lar Natty. I love it. Where right my

1394
01:10:31,400 --> 01:10:35,240
Speaker 1: essays every month and I'll be on the hill on Tuesday. Right,

1395
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:38,679
Speaker 1: Thank you y'all amazing? Uh? And is there a tweet

1396
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 1: or some other work of social media you've been enjoying. Honestly,

1397
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:45,920
Speaker 1: it's foolishness, Jack, There's there was a tweet. There's a

1398
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 1: Twitter thread right now like what's your favorite moment? And

1399
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:51,840
Speaker 1: reality TV and the quote tweets they are gold. I

1400
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:54,240
Speaker 1: am just going through flavor of love. I love New

1401
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:58,280
Speaker 1: York Heaven. Okay, listen, Yeah, I have a theory that

1402
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:01,400
Speaker 1: January six happened because you didn't check that white girl

1403
01:11:01,479 --> 01:11:05,240
Speaker 1: who was talking about her neck all black um buck

1404
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 1: Wild you know what. You know what though, we let

1405
01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:11,160
Speaker 1: buck Wild cook to our own detrimenty, you know listen.

1406
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:13,400
Speaker 1: So I watched it the other day and I was like, yo,

1407
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:15,280
Speaker 1: New York was I had of her time, you know,

1408
01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 1: with just like not being with the ship like New

1409
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:19,719
Speaker 1: York was like, don't talk like she was really ahead

1410
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:21,880
Speaker 1: at a time, and I think back and I was like, why,

1411
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 1: I feel like you me might not even realize, like,

1412
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:26,240
Speaker 1: why are you you hating up? While watching that, I

1413
01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 1: was like, I was like, yeah, it's so weird. How

1414
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:35,880
Speaker 1: differently I responded like see right now, I was like, oh,

1415
01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:41,439
Speaker 1: you know when you work with that was a gab gab. Yes,

1416
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:46,559
Speaker 1: and Tricia pleasure having you as always? Where can people

1417
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:50,160
Speaker 1: find you? Follow you? And is their tweet you've been enjoying? Okay,

1418
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 1: so I don't have social media, so I always act

1419
01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:56,880
Speaker 1: like I'm surprised by this. I've still been enjoying the

1420
01:11:56,920 --> 01:12:00,800
Speaker 1: few at my window though, And you can listen to

1421
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:03,600
Speaker 1: more of my work at People Place Power. It's a

1422
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:07,240
Speaker 1: podcast I made about activists around the world. It's on Spotify,

1423
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:11,400
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts and everywhere else. Amazing Miles, We can people

1424
01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:14,639
Speaker 1: find you what tweet you've been enjoying? Twitter, Instagram at

1425
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:17,600
Speaker 1: Miles of Gray. You like basketball, check out Miles and

1426
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:20,000
Speaker 1: Jack got Bad Mad Boost He is not Bad Boost

1427
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 1: These Mad Bad Basketball podcast in the league is we're

1428
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:27,360
Speaker 1: so so close, so close to the league starting up again.

1429
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:31,040
Speaker 1: And also if you like terrible reality reality shows, and

1430
01:12:31,200 --> 01:12:34,519
Speaker 1: we'd check me and Sophia Alexander out on four twenty

1431
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:37,479
Speaker 1: Day Fiance, where we just you know, talk about our

1432
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:40,560
Speaker 1: favorite mess of a show, ninety day Fiance. Okay, some

1433
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 1: tweets that I like. First, up is actually it's really

1434
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:48,880
Speaker 1: just the first one worm adderall at Underscore Underscore, Mary

1435
01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:52,040
Speaker 1: Boy tweeted our monster truck rallies a competition or is

1436
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 1: it just like a monster truck recital? How do we

1437
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:59,200
Speaker 1: look at that? Is there a competition? Uh? And then

1438
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:02,679
Speaker 1: at Pop a Piece Shoe tweeted Biden and the Dam's

1439
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:05,320
Speaker 1: got exactly five percent salty er and the Republicans started

1440
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:13,240
Speaker 1: acting like an Italian football player faking the injury, rolling

1441
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 1: around on the ground holding their ankles. Oh my god.

1442
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:19,559
Speaker 1: They called this fashions we are told, but come on now,

1443
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:24,440
Speaker 1: you can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien

1444
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:28,880
Speaker 1: and I don't know, somebody depths of Internet Archive is

1445
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:33,560
Speaker 1: retweeting some interesting stuff from like Paul. I'm scared of

1446
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:37,120
Speaker 1: hackers because this is from November two thousand three. They

1447
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:41,360
Speaker 1: hack into ns into NASA five percent, they steal things

1448
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:44,800
Speaker 1: four percent, they are violent sociopaths four percent they use

1449
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:48,760
Speaker 1: amphetamines and speed seven percent. They help Osama bin lad

1450
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:55,760
Speaker 1: In fourteen percent, they're un American five percent they smell bad. Yeah,

1451
01:13:56,360 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 1: so it's just fun to take a little snapshot of

1452
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:04,680
Speaker 1: how stupid we were extremely recently. You can find us

1453
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:07,439
Speaker 1: on Twitter at daily Zekeeist. We're at d Daily Zeitgeist

1454
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:09,439
Speaker 1: on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page on a

1455
01:14:09,479 --> 01:14:12,640
Speaker 1: website daily zeitgeys dot com where we post our episodes

1456
01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:15,280
Speaker 1: on our footnoes, so where we link off to the

1457
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:17,599
Speaker 1: information that we talked about in today's episode, as well

1458
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:19,799
Speaker 1: as a song that we think you might enjoy Myleso

1459
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:21,920
Speaker 1: song to be Kime Couple, my Da this one. So

1460
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:24,880
Speaker 1: we're gonna go out on a nice little instrumental track

1461
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:27,960
Speaker 1: from Ivy Lab. It's called All Days Swimming. Look, it's

1462
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:31,000
Speaker 1: hot out there. Everybody just dream of just swimming all day,

1463
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:33,600
Speaker 1: cooling your body off in the water. The beat is

1464
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:36,479
Speaker 1: very you know, it's it's it's it's stripty. I don't know.

1465
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:39,800
Speaker 1: It sounds like you're you're at a pool party, but

1466
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:45,280
Speaker 1: maybe on an alien planet. This is all Days with swimming.

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01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:47,439
Speaker 1: They should have called a d alien pool party, but

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01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 1: their loss. The Daily Zekee is the production of iHeart

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01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:52,600
Speaker 1: Radio for more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen

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01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:56,880
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. Us gonna do it for us

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01:14:56,960 --> 01:14:58,800
Speaker 1: this morning, but we're back this afternoon to tell you

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Speaker 1: what is trending, and we will tell yelled then by

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Speaker 1: Im