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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the

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Speaker 1: modern white tail hunter, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon, and this week on the show, I am

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Speaker 1: joined by Jeff Sturgis to discuss this perspective on patterning

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Speaker 1: bucks during the rut and his process for dialing in

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Speaker 1: a plan at all other times of year. All right,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you

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Speaker 1: by First Light, and we are wrapping up the month

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Speaker 1: of patterning bucks. You heard about how I pattered a

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Speaker 1: buck in early October. We talked to Mark Drewy about

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Speaker 1: his art form of patterning deer. We talked to Jake

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Speaker 1: Bush about patterning deer on public land. And now we've

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Speaker 1: got an other mastermind, Mr Jeff Sturgis. And if you're

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Speaker 1: not familiar with Jeff, he's been on the podcast a

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Speaker 1: number of times. He's one of the best out there.

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Speaker 1: He's written a number of terrific books on hunting mature

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Speaker 1: deer and habitat management. He runs the Whitetail Habitat Solutions

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Speaker 1: YouTube channel and website. He does consulting, he has online classes.

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Speaker 1: He has so much incredible content helping folks fine dear

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Speaker 1: pattern deer, hunt deer, managed for deer, improved dear habitat

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Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff. Jeff is is truly um

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Speaker 1: I said, all right, he's a mastermind. He's one of

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Speaker 1: the people I respect most in this uh sphere. He's

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Speaker 1: one of the folks I've learned the most from and

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Speaker 1: just really really excited that he's here today to discuss

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Speaker 1: this topic and to talk about patterning bucks during the rut.

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Speaker 1: How we can do that here in the pre rut

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Speaker 1: at the end of October, how that plan needs to

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Speaker 1: adjust as we move into November or wherever it is

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Speaker 1: that you have, you know, running activity, if that's January

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Speaker 1: and Alabama or just member in Texas, whatever. We'll talk

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Speaker 1: about what a pattern during the rut might look like,

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Speaker 1: how to do that, and then we actually just dive

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Speaker 1: into the details of Jeff's entire process to patterning deer,

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Speaker 1: whether that's in September or October, December, all points in between.

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Speaker 1: We get into the nitty gritty, which I love doing

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Speaker 1: with Jeff. We talked through how to use historical data

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Speaker 1: and trends, history of what you've learned these deer do

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Speaker 1: in the past. We talked about how he uses sign

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Speaker 1: to put together the puzzle pieces, and of course you

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Speaker 1: can't talk about patterning deer without trail cameras, so we

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Speaker 1: dive into that. He's got a really great mock scrape

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Speaker 1: strategy that helps him get pictures and really get clear

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Speaker 1: data inputs to make these plans. So that is, Uh,

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Speaker 1: that's what's in store for today. I'm excited when this

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Speaker 1: podcast drops. It is the end of October. The rut

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Speaker 1: is staring us right in the face. Man, I mean,

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Speaker 1: is there any better time of year to be a

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Speaker 1: deer hunter? This is what we dreamed of. We're about

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Speaker 1: to step foot into the super Bowl. Friends. This is

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Speaker 1: what we've worked for. This is what we've dreamed of.

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Speaker 1: This is what we've planned for all these days out

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Speaker 1: in the spring and summer. It's all let up to now.

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Speaker 1: So let's do this. How about you bear with me

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Speaker 1: here for a couple simple kind of leading into the rut.

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Speaker 1: Words of wisdom from your old friend Mark Kenyan. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Number one, you heard me say this before. If you

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Speaker 1: listen to the podcast, You've heard me say all of

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Speaker 1: these things before. If you listen to the podcast, but

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Speaker 1: I want to you know touch on some of the

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Speaker 1: greatest hits. If you are hunting over these next two,

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Speaker 1: three or four weeks and you're in the rut, and

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Speaker 1: you personally get into a rut if you find yourself

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Speaker 1: like torn, kind of confused, paralysis by analysis, stuck, not

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Speaker 1: sure what's going on, not sure why you can't get

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Speaker 1: on the deer, not sure why you can't find that buck.

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Speaker 1: Things aren't going the way you expected them to, and

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Speaker 1: you're kind of stuck trafficker out. What should I do?

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Speaker 1: Remember at that point in your trip, in your week,

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Speaker 1: in your weekend, whatever it is, step back to the

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Speaker 1: basics and remember the pillars of rut hunting success. Always

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Speaker 1: go back to this whenever you're stuck. Always go back

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Speaker 1: to the pillars and think to yourself, well does my

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Speaker 1: plan fit into the pillars of rout hunting success? Number

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Speaker 1: one one of these pillars hunt the does either dough

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Speaker 1: betting areas or dope food sources in the evenings, if

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Speaker 1: you're near one of those, if you're in it, if

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Speaker 1: you're just downwind of it, that is always a great

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Speaker 1: place to be during the rut. These are those locations

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Speaker 1: where bucks are gonna be traveling to, so are you

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Speaker 1: in or near a dough hotspot? Number two? If you're

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Speaker 1: not one of those places, are you in or near

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Speaker 1: a funnel something that concentrates deer movement. Maybe that's a

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Speaker 1: thin piece of timber. Maybe that is a piece of

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Speaker 1: high ground between two ponds and you've got a bridge

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Speaker 1: in between the two. Maybe this is a little, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, ditch with brushy cover that goes between two

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Speaker 1: big fields. Anywhere we're that buck traffic, which is increased

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Speaker 1: this time of the year. Anywhere that can be narrowed

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Speaker 1: down into a narrow sliver a smaller section is going

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Speaker 1: to help you find a buck as they are traveling

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Speaker 1: throughout the day trying to find those doughs ready to breed.

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Speaker 1: So that's number two. Funnels, and then finally number three.

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Speaker 1: During the rut, get your button one of those kinds

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Speaker 1: of places, and then give it time. Get out there

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Speaker 1: for as many hours as you can during the morning

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Speaker 1: through the middle of the day, if you can through

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Speaker 1: the evening. You gotta be there for the magic to happen.

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Speaker 1: That's it. There's so many of the things we can

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Speaker 1: talk about during the rut, but if you can always

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Speaker 1: remember those three pillars, you're gonna give yourself a good chance.

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Speaker 1: And I want to give you one other thing, one

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Speaker 1: other thing here. When it comes to the mental side

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Speaker 1: of the rut, stuff's gonna go wrong. Remember that, except

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Speaker 1: that be ready for it. You're gonna be thrown for loop.

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Speaker 1: Your plans are gonna fall apart. Something bad's gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna miss you're gonna get lost in the woods.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna have trail cameras don't work, you're gonna have trespassers.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna have something. Be ready for that. And when

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Speaker 1: it arrives, if you have already thought through these things,

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Speaker 1: if you've already come to terms that there's gonna be

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Speaker 1: tough stuff ahead of you, you'll be better prepared to

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Speaker 1: push through that stuff, because now is when mental toughness

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Speaker 1: kills deer. So be ready and just push on through,

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Speaker 1: grind on through the crap, because good things always lay

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Speaker 1: on the other side of those speed bumps, and finally,

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Speaker 1: have fun, enjoy this stuff. We've waited all year. We

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Speaker 1: talk ourselves up, we we dream about these moments. Like

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Speaker 1: I said, already, it's a shame if you let the

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Speaker 1: rud arrive and then just stress out about the whole

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Speaker 1: time because you're out there all day and then you

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Speaker 1: were miserable because you haven't taken a break where you're

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Speaker 1: miserable because you haven't shot a deer yet, or you're

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Speaker 1: miserable because everybody else seems to be shooting a deer

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Speaker 1: and you can't find a single buck. Whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: Trying not to let that stuff ruin this thing for you.

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Speaker 1: Keep it fun. This is about fun. Enjoy the process.

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Speaker 1: And if you ever find yourself kind of leaning towards

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Speaker 1: that over stress, I'm not enjoying this kind of feeling

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Speaker 1: and vibe, that's a clear warning. Son, Maybe you gotta

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Speaker 1: take a step back. Maybe I've taken night off, take

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Speaker 1: the family out to dinner. Maybe you need to go

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Speaker 1: meet up with your hunting buddies and just get back

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Speaker 1: to the commune and camaraderie of this. Maybe you need

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Speaker 1: to sleep in for one hour in the morning, get

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Speaker 1: your head right, have a good breakfast, take your kids

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Speaker 1: to school, remember why you do this thing, and then

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Speaker 1: get back out there. Have fun, be a human being,

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Speaker 1: push through the tough stuff, stick to the principles. Did

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Speaker 1: you do those things? My friends, is going to be

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Speaker 1: a great Rutt, and I think Jeff has got some

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Speaker 1: other great advice for you as well. Today. I'm excited

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Speaker 1: for you tune in. I'm excited to hear from you

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Speaker 1: all in the coming weeks. I hope we all have

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Speaker 1: a lot of success stories to share. Uh. Speaking of that,

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Speaker 1: make sure you're following me on Instagram at wired to

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Speaker 1: Hunt if you want to see how my trips are going.

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Speaker 1: I'm about take off for the big one week in

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Speaker 1: November trip. I'm gonna be heading to uh the ne Bbraska,

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Speaker 1: and Ohio. So I can't wait to share those experiences

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Speaker 1: along the way. Check them on out over on I

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Speaker 1: G and UH. I will have the stories here in

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Speaker 1: the podcast as soon as I can as well. So

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Speaker 1: without any further ado, let's get in today's show with

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Speaker 1: Jeff Sturgis. All right with me now back on the

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Speaker 1: show is one of our all time favorite guests, Mr

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Speaker 1: Jeff Sturgis. Jeff, thank you for being here. Yeah, thank you, Mark.

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Speaker 1: It's always great chatting with you and Uh. It has

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Speaker 1: been a long time. I don't remember how many times

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Speaker 1: have been on your podcast, but uh, I know the

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Speaker 1: years have flown by, but it's been a few years.

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Speaker 1: It has been. I mean, you're one of the O

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Speaker 1: G s. Jeff. I think that I think you were

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Speaker 1: within our first five episodes, if I'm if I'm thinking right,

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Speaker 1: I think you were within those first couple ever recorded.

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Speaker 1: And I know you and I were talking and you know,

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Speaker 1: doing stuff even well before the podcast even started. So

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Speaker 1: um oh yeah, yeah, I think well that my food

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Speaker 1: plot book was two thousand and fourteen and you wrote

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Speaker 1: the forward for that. Yeah, I forgot about that. That

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Speaker 1: that was a little that was eight years ago, just

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Speaker 1: right there, and we had been talking, you know, for

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Speaker 1: years before then too. Yeah. Man, well I've learned a

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Speaker 1: ton from you, and uh, I've always appreciated you coming

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Speaker 1: on here, and I always know this is going to

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Speaker 1: be like one of our best of the year, maybe

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Speaker 1: selfishly because I just love the way you think like

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Speaker 1: you you think about things, you process things, you approach

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Speaker 1: things in a way that very much jives with with

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Speaker 1: me and how I like to go about it. You're

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Speaker 1: you're super analytical with it, which which just fascinates me

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Speaker 1: the way you go about it. And that is why

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Speaker 1: I thought this series we're doing this month, that you

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Speaker 1: would be one of the perfect people for it. So

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Speaker 1: the series is you know, we're we're focusing all on

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Speaker 1: patterning bocks. Like the month of October. Everyone we've talked

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Speaker 1: to has been all about patterning deer and and this one, Jeff,

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Speaker 1: that we're gonna do is going to drop at the

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Speaker 1: end of October. So when people send into this, yeah

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Speaker 1: it is, they'll they'll be hearing this, you know, hopefully

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Speaker 1: end of October or beginning of November. And I think

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Speaker 1: there will be some people who might say patterning bucks, Well,

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Speaker 1: it's November. Nobody can pattern or buck in November, and

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Speaker 1: they might be thinking that this isn't for them at

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Speaker 1: this point. So my question for you is this to

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Speaker 1: kick it off, Jeff, can you pattern a buck during

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Speaker 1: the run, because a lot of people say you can't. Um,

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Speaker 1: I sure do think you can. Now you know that

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Speaker 1: being said to me to really lock into a core

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Speaker 1: home home range, um, from whether it's mid October and

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Speaker 1: of October and then all the way through a lot

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Speaker 1: of times in early December, and and they'll spend the

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Speaker 1: majority of their time what I see in that location.

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Speaker 1: And so in that respect, yes, you can pattern them. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's a little bit different than I think

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Speaker 1: every one thinks about patterning is these these bucks are

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Speaker 1: going to an evening food source in September and October,

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Speaker 1: and you can pattern them that way. They might even

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Speaker 1: have them locked into their going to this betting area,

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Speaker 1: which is a little bit more risky hunt. But you

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Speaker 1: know they're going there and they're betting there, they're feeding there,

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Speaker 1: and they get locked into that pattern. But um, that

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that they don't have rutting patterns and that

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Speaker 1: you can capitalize on and that they repeat every single year. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So how would you define a rutt pattern? Then? I

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Speaker 1: mean you used to give great examples of what a

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Speaker 1: September October pattern might look like. What can we realistically

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Speaker 1: call a rutt pattern or what's an example of something

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Speaker 1: like that. I still think they hit, They hit their

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Speaker 1: afternoon evening food source. That's a priority to them. And

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people look at the rut

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Speaker 1: as a little bit more random just because you know,

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Speaker 1: Preussures applied hunting pressure in September and October and then

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Speaker 1: Box seemed to find a way to gravitate towards those

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Speaker 1: food sources and habitats that they want to hang out

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Speaker 1: during that specific time and really hunting pressure, changing food sources,

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Speaker 1: changing the quality of bedding, or the security of the betting.

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Speaker 1: They'll move a long ways and I always look at

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Speaker 1: I call it the five percent club, but it's really

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Speaker 1: those properties five of all properties that really attract mature bucks.

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Speaker 1: And so a lot of bucks are leaving their September

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Speaker 1: early October areas and going to these locations. There are

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Speaker 1: those locations that are capturing them. And then they're still

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Speaker 1: hitting their afternoon food sources on a somewhat regular basis.

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Speaker 1: If there's water holes that they want to hit, often

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Speaker 1: they're hitting those water holes, uh, foods or water hole sources.

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Speaker 1: And then at the same time, you really see the

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Speaker 1: same box being in the same smaller location between dough

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Speaker 1: betting areas and buck betting areas, so you really see

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Speaker 1: I'm hunting more and and really during this time some

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Speaker 1: of those patterns almost referred to it as vertical um

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Speaker 1: perpendicular for where you're looking at bucks are going straight

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Speaker 1: from not straight, but they're going from a betting area

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Speaker 1: to a food source. And then that can rely flips

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Speaker 1: around this year, this time of year where they're more

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Speaker 1: paralleling those food sources, paralleling those betting areas and and

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Speaker 1: so trails that you didn't hunt in September October now

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Speaker 1: become a very pattern of mole because they're they're flipping

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Speaker 1: around and they're going between those betting areas, between those

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Speaker 1: food sources. It's it's completely different game, you know, stands

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Speaker 1: that we don't even use the rest of the year. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a great point. I really like that that vertical

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Speaker 1: versus parallel or horizontal type movement is so true. Um,

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Speaker 1: I kind of want to do I'm gonna do a

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Speaker 1: weird kind of chronological thing. I want to focus kind

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Speaker 1: of first on, you know, these rut ideas and the

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Speaker 1: I'm probably going to bring us back and ask about

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Speaker 1: some of the things that you're doing outside of the rut.

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Speaker 1: But but real quick, if you had to pick like

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Speaker 1: the best time of year to have a buck pattern

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Speaker 1: and kill a buck on a pattern, what would that

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Speaker 1: window be where it's like the primo time to have

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Speaker 1: this kind of success. Is it like late October? Is

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Speaker 1: it right now or is it that early season time period?

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Speaker 1: What do you think or something else entirely? Oh boy,

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Speaker 1: that's a tough one. Well, we're talking about the rut,

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Speaker 1: so do we need to talk about the early season.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of like the early season. You

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Speaker 1: have a short window, meaning that um, it seems like

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Speaker 1: those early season patterns are fleeting, especially in your home

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Speaker 1: state of Michigan where the openers October one. Well, those

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Speaker 1: box change your pattern. It might not any have anything

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Speaker 1: to do with hunting pressure, but think about all the

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Speaker 1: hunting pressure that's applied. Well, when they get locked into

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Speaker 1: their fall range where they're really going to hang out

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Speaker 1: for late October, November, December. Then to me, that late

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Speaker 1: October pre rut time where those aren't necessarily ready but

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Speaker 1: the bucks are is just such an outstanding time because

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Speaker 1: they'll move a lot more. To me, they move a

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Speaker 1: lot more during daylight. They finally moved during the morning

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Speaker 1: hours sometimes to me, uh, several times more than they

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Speaker 1: do in the afternoon evening where they're more relating to

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Speaker 1: that food source movement. In the morning, it's still cool.

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Speaker 1: They're still making rob scrapes moving around you the betting areas,

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Speaker 1: and they still might not leave a ten acre area,

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Speaker 1: but they're really active within that area. So to me,

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Speaker 1: for a longer window of time, you have more of

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Speaker 1: a predictable amount of time that you can actually pattern

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Speaker 1: a box during that pre rod time, and then when

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Speaker 1: he gets into the rot he still could hold some

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Speaker 1: of those same patterns. But you know, let's stacey, he

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Speaker 1: could be on a dough mile oy that he's just

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Speaker 1: some ringandom chance that he's over there. Um, you still hunt,

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Speaker 1: you know, you still can hunt those same patterns. You

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Speaker 1: can still kill that target buck um. But to me,

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Speaker 1: he's in that window a little bit less time. He's

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Speaker 1: really consistent at the end of October, which might be

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Speaker 1: more like early November for someone in Kansas, Tennessee, Arkansas,

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Speaker 1: West Virginia. UM, a little bit further song. Yeah, I've

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Speaker 1: definitely seen that myself in some places where you even

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Speaker 1: though there is the crazy rut stuff going on, there's

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Speaker 1: still a general kind of cycle that's that's happened that

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Speaker 1: you can kind of pattern, like like you mentioned that

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Speaker 1: doe betting area, checking doe betting to doe betting. You know,

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Speaker 1: I've seen bucks repeat like Okay, they're gonna hit this

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Speaker 1: betting area and then they're gonna hit this next one,

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Speaker 1: and then they hit that next one, and they're gonna

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Speaker 1: come through and hit it again sometime in the next

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Speaker 1: day or two or whatever it is. Of course there's

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Speaker 1: the chance to get on a dough and disappear for

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Speaker 1: two days. But you know, you can kind of develop

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Speaker 1: that predictive capability based on some of those observations. So

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Speaker 1: I guess that that is relevant because I'm I'm curious

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Speaker 1: what specific things are you doing that are unique to

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Speaker 1: this time period when you're trying to pattern and buck

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Speaker 1: during the rut, that that's different than what you would

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Speaker 1: do in September or October. Like, what's what is unique

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Speaker 1: to your rut pattern in development or execution for this

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Speaker 1: time of year. Boy, there's a few things, mark Um

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Speaker 1: I wish I had to lift, But there's one one

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Speaker 1: of the things that I think is really critical. And

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Speaker 1: we'll just start off in the early season. I'll notice

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Speaker 1: when it's really hot, when it's really windy, it just

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem like those boxes are moving during daylight. They

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Speaker 1: don't have to. Their big bodies, they have a lot

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Speaker 1: of fat on them. They're just putting on fat, and

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Speaker 1: they seem to be a lot more doscile. They're just

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Speaker 1: they're just kind of you know, you can catch them

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Speaker 1: in that pattern. But to me, when that weather really

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Speaker 1: plays an important role on how far they're going to

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Speaker 1: move during daylight and and and it's not that they're

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Speaker 1: you know, they're they're moving that much more. It seems

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Speaker 1: like it's just they might move ten minutes a half

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Speaker 1: hour before dark instead of ten minutes a half hour after,

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Speaker 1: same movement, same amount of time, and it's just just

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Speaker 1: a little bit different timing where when it gets into

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Speaker 1: closer to the pre rod an evening hunt. For example,

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Speaker 1: last night was about forty nine degrees when we came

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Speaker 1: in from hunting, and that's a really cool temperature. Um

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Speaker 1: it was it was after three days of warm up.

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Speaker 1: We had some really cool temperatures earlier in the week. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think a low of twenty seven in the morning.

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Speaker 1: But deer are really active in the evening. And it's

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Speaker 1: almost like I don't really need to have that giant

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Speaker 1: cold front to go sit on a nice cool evening.

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Speaker 1: I'll place more of an uh of a priority on

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Speaker 1: hunts in the evening that I wouldn't, you know, say,

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Speaker 1: an average temperature day to the average highest fifty two,

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Speaker 1: and so we have a day that's fifty four. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's not that far off. And when you get into

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Speaker 1: the pre roun th box are active and unless it's

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Speaker 1: really hot, really windy, there something extreme going on. I

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Speaker 1: find that they're moving more during daylight, and so I'll

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Speaker 1: focus on more average days during the pre rod where

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't have sat those average weather days um during

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Speaker 1: September October. If that makes it so, that's one big thing.

358
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Speaker 1: I'll start hunting a little bit more frequent. Those mornings

359
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,960
Speaker 1: are really key on those cold mornings, and so I'll

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Speaker 1: start to flip the morning stands during this time of year.

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Speaker 1: I've sat one morning now unless I have a box

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Speaker 1: pegged in the early season where I I really believe

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Speaker 1: that he's betting in this location. And I'll give you

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Speaker 1: an example. Let's say, uh would it's surrounded by agg

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Speaker 1: fields and one side is planted maybe in corn. Let's

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Speaker 1: say they're hitting the bean side. That's where they're at

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Speaker 1: every night. Do you think you can sneak in that

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Speaker 1: corn side? There's a ditch bank pack there, there's a

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Speaker 1: little mound or something where you think those bucks bad

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Speaker 1: and you can sneak in. Law you're sitting back in

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Speaker 1: the corn because they're not eating that corn. And on

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Speaker 1: October five and you're waiting for those bucks to come

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Speaker 1: back to you. That's an example of a really good

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Speaker 1: morning set up. Maybe you're walking through brush, non deer area,

375
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Speaker 1: swamp water, you cross the creek, river, you get into

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Speaker 1: the back of the wood lot, and you wait for

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Speaker 1: those bucks to come back in the morning. That's that's

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00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,320
Speaker 1: just a really defined use for a lot of people

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Speaker 1: don't have that opportunity. And I normally don't even around

380
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Speaker 1: here on the properties that hunt, So I don't hunt

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Speaker 1: a lot of mornings because evening can be so predictable.

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Speaker 1: Like we talked earlier, that's just they're doing this, they're

383
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Speaker 1: moving from here to here. But when it comes to

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Speaker 1: this time of year in the pre rod, we even

385
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,240
Speaker 1: see on our trail cameras that that the box are

386
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Speaker 1: very active in the mornings. I saw one of the

387
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,200
Speaker 1: five year olds this morning and moving across a small

388
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,320
Speaker 1: food plot about an hour and a half after daylight.

389
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Speaker 1: He hasn't done that all year. We haven't seen that,

390
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,760
Speaker 1: And so right now is when it really starts picking

391
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 1: up where morning opportunities are great. I'm placing a little

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00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,960
Speaker 1: bit more priority on those average sets in the evening,

393
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,119
Speaker 1: but I'm still looking at it that this is a

394
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Speaker 1: morning stand here, and this is an evening stand here.

395
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Speaker 1: I think it's very important as people getting into November

396
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,119
Speaker 1: in the rout that they talk about, you know, really defined,

397
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,479
Speaker 1: this is a morning stand, this is an evening stand,

398
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,600
Speaker 1: because if you spend all day in the morning stand

399
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 1: back in betting areas, those bucks are going to focus

400
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,000
Speaker 1: on food in the afternoon, even if they're moving for

401
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,679
Speaker 1: dos that's where the dolls are going. Then you're going

402
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 1: to spend half of your day in an unproductive stand.

403
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 1: So I like to really focus on morning and then

404
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,960
Speaker 1: flip around to hunt that evening hunt, even if I'm

405
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 1: sitting all day. Yeah, that makes sense. One thing that

406
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaker 1: I often think about is is, you know, when it

407
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,240
Speaker 1: comes to the rut, is the speed maybe that's beat,

408
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 1: it's the the duration of a pattern during the rut. So,

409
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 1: for example, the opposite of this might be a September

410
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:13,000
Speaker 1: pattern where or in October, let's say like late September

411
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 1: in early October. Here in Michigan, I had some bucks

412
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 1: that were, you know, very frequently mature bucks moving in

413
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,639
Speaker 1: the evening in daylight out of a swamp into a

414
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 1: green bean field. And they would do it almost nightly

415
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,199
Speaker 1: or every other night or something like that. And that

416
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: was going on for for weeks on end. I was

417
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:36,200
Speaker 1: getting relatively consistent daylight pictures of mature buck doing this thing,

418
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 1: and I knew, you know, until those beans changed or

419
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,240
Speaker 1: someone went there and blew it out, he was going

420
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 1: to keep doing that. And so that was a pattern

421
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 1: I knew had some time on him. But on the

422
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 1: opposite side of things, when I see something pop up

423
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Speaker 1: during November, Let's say a buck shows up on my

424
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,679
Speaker 1: cell camera and he's in a bean field tonight, or

425
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,159
Speaker 1: a buck shows up on a scrape back in some

426
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,199
Speaker 1: transition cover or something like that. My question to you

427
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 1: is how fast do you need to jump on a

428
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 1: pattern if you see something happened twice in a row

429
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 1: or two times in a week or something. How fast

430
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:09,920
Speaker 1: you need to jump on something like that during the

431
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 1: rut or how long will it last? Because my my

432
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,880
Speaker 1: assumption has always been like these things are very fleeting

433
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 1: during the rut um. Has that been your experience or

434
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 1: how do you look at the speed of taking advantage

435
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,360
Speaker 1: of something you're observing during that time period. I think

436
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 1: it depends on the box. So now you you're talking November.

437
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 1: Let's say it's November five and you have a box

438
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 1: that you haven't seen all year. You maybe even knew

439
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 1: he was alive. You made it through the season at

440
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,120
Speaker 1: trail camp Pitchers in February or whatever it might be,

441
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 1: you're waiting for him to show up. All of a sudden,

442
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,920
Speaker 1: he's there. Well, it's almost like he's told you at

443
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,400
Speaker 1: that point of the season that hey, you're not you're

444
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 1: not right in the middle of my wheelhouse house, but

445
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 1: you're part of my wheelhouse. And I look at it

446
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 1: like you need to jump on that immediately. So if

447
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 1: you see him, he's there, he's cutting through this funnel um.

448
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 1: Maybe you see him from a distance. You need to

449
00:22:58,040 --> 00:22:59,719
Speaker 1: jump on him right then, because he's going to go

450
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 1: back home eventually. He's going to spend the majority of

451
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 1: his time at home. And he's already told you're only

452
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 1: a part of my wheelhouse. You're not my wheelhouse, you're

453
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: not in the center of it. So you're you're on

454
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 1: the fringe area of his On the flip side. You

455
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,200
Speaker 1: have this buck that you've been watching, and he's consistently

456
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,920
Speaker 1: started to go hone in on your property more. October tenth,

457
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: October fifteenth, he starts seeing him more often. There's more

458
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 1: sign popping up that he believes him pictures, whatever it

459
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: might be. That's that box that he's going to be

460
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: in your area half the time. So I'm not saying

461
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 1: you don't jump on that sign. I'm always looking at like,

462
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: if he just was there this morning, I better get

463
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 1: there this evening if I think he's coming back. I've

464
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 1: watched five six year old buck go up with a

465
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 1: dough assumingly breeder in a certain betting area that he

466
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: went in one way because of the wind. I just

467
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: sit on the other side of that betting area, but

468
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: I waited for him to come back, and you know,

469
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 1: come out, and he comes out that evening, so you know,

470
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: you just have to jump on that right away. And

471
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: he might have been in back in that betting area

472
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: three days later or four days later. But that's a

473
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: case where a day, you know, the same day matters.

474
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 1: So really, some of those bucks are there consistently. But

475
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: then you have some of those giants. There's one in

476
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 1: uh in Wisconsin I'm waiting for I've had one picture

477
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 1: of them so far. I know he's alive. I knew

478
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: we made it, he made it through the season, but boy,

479
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 1: i'd love to see him and so when he all

480
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,360
Speaker 1: of a sudden starts to be more consistent on the land,

481
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to miss out on that opportunity. Yeah,

482
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 1: so that's that's not an uncommon thing to have, like

483
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: a a rut buck, like a buck who you never

484
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: see except for a handful of times during the rut um. Yeah,

485
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 1: how do you how do you handle that kind of situation,

486
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,880
Speaker 1: Like how do you plan or put together a plan

487
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 1: to hunt that buck or develop some kind of pattern

488
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: or idea for how to kill that buck when you

489
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: know that's the situation, Like let's say, like last year,

490
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 1: this buck did that thing. You now see, Okay, he's

491
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: a rut buck. He list somewhere else, but he's gonna

492
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 1: come through, you know sometime in this window. Now it's

493
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: two you're expecting that to happen again. What was the plan?

494
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 1: Maybe you can tell me about the specific buck, or

495
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,239
Speaker 1: if not, just give me a generic example of what

496
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,360
Speaker 1: you're specifically doing to a watch for him for when

497
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 1: he shows up, and then be how do you approach

498
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: it like in those following days, are you just gonna

499
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 1: hunt what he did last year? Or are you gonna

500
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 1: put out more cameras in the area? To try to

501
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: pick up on what he's specifically doing, or how would

502
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 1: you go after one special deer like that in that scenario?

503
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: What's I love that um type of scenario because a

504
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 1: lot of people look at it like um. They could

505
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: look at it like, well, I'm gonna sit every day

506
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna shoot him or I'm gonna have an

507
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: opportunity yet and then and then wonder why they never

508
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: see him, and then other folks who might look at

509
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: like it's just a shot in the dark, you know,

510
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: needle in the haystack. You know, how how are you

511
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 1: going to get a chance in a box that's just

512
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: a ghost and you're never on your lane? And I

513
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: would say about half of my amateur box the oldest

514
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: ones are have been those kind of box where they

515
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,679
Speaker 1: live somewhere else. And the thing about those boxes for

516
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: two or three years, you might have two years of

517
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 1: pictures maybe even three that they you might have fifteen

518
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: pictures total, but they've told you that I'm gonna be

519
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,959
Speaker 1: there in this window, be seen November three. He might

520
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: have had one picture. You might add another picture in

521
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 1: November tenth or twelve, and you know they're going to

522
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: be there during that window, they're going to move a

523
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: lot because they're already they're already moving wherever they're coming from.

524
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: If those bucks are shown up in the middle of

525
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: the night once or twice in October, they're telling you,

526
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: I live a mile away or a mile and a

527
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: half away. So when he gets to you, he's already

528
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 1: moving a lot, so you can count on him not

529
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 1: to just sit around. He's there for a purpose. He's

530
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 1: looking for dose. And so that makes me think that

531
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: I can sit on funnels in that area, whether it's

532
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: joining wood lots or a swamp edge in that area,

533
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: areas that I can blow my scent safely somewhere else,

534
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 1: and I can pick around and have a reasonable chance

535
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: of of shooting that buck because he's told me for

536
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: two or three years he'll be there, even if it's

537
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: just twelve fifteen pictures. And then when I look at

538
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: that window, he's there. During the peak rod, he's already

539
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: bred a dough or two back home, and so in

540
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: the pre rod he finds it. You know, all the

541
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: bucks get invited to the party. He gets to find

542
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: a dough. Every other buck gets to find a dough,

543
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: and then that second or third one comes a little

544
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: bit harder. They only breed two to four I think

545
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: in that first primary run, and that's any buck. So

546
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: that second or third buck he starts ranging out a

547
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: little bit more, and that's when you start to see

548
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: those trail camp photos. And in our area that would

549
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: be November two, third through the tenth, twelveth somewhere home there,

550
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: maybe even the fourteen fifteen be towards on the on

551
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: the back back side of that window. Well, then if

552
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: he's coming a long ways and he's coming a long

553
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: ways from home to be there during that time, and

554
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: he's told you that for two or three years because

555
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: you just had a handful of pictures, maybe a couple

556
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: of sightings, well then he's not going to move over.

557
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: When it's let's say northern Ohio, I don't know what

558
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: the average high is in early November, but I would

559
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: guess that it's low fifties to mid fifties, just just

560
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: a guess, maybe high forties, but somewhere around in there,

561
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: let's say it's seventy five and thirty five hour winds.

562
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 1: I just don't think he's gonna make that long track.

563
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 1: It's too windy, it's too stressfully, can't hear can't see

564
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: as well. I just don't think he makes that that

565
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: long trek over to the land. If it's really really windy,

566
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: thunder lightning, extreme temperatures, extreme wind, extreme snow hail, sleep,

567
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 1: whatever was, I just don't think he makes that track.

568
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: So you look at that ten day forecast around there,

569
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 1: from the second in November to the fourteen in November,

570
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: and you say, you know, these are three or four

571
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 1: really solid cold front days, or these cold fronts passed.

572
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: This cold fronts passed through, nice morning lows. The winds

573
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: are subsided, not necessarily, kind of like when there's a

574
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: little bit of wind, but instead of being thirty five

575
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: November winds, they're now twelve or fifteen hour winds or

576
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: eight miles and and so that that front has gone by.

577
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:43,479
Speaker 1: So I'm looking at like you could take that ten

578
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: day window and say, you know what, I bet if

579
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: he's here, it's going to be on one of those

580
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: three days. So then I put a priority on hunting

581
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: those funnels where I know that he's been around in

582
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: the past, making that assumption he's going to be through

583
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: that funnel, And it's amazing how you show up the hunt.

584
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: One rolls on a good cold front evening or morning,

585
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: and he falls right into your lap. Here a bucket

586
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: only after twelve pictures of over a two to three

587
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: year period, and you haven't even seen that year um

588
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: yet on the land. And then you check. You might

589
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: check the trail Cameron here. There's three or four pictures

590
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: on there that he's been around. But to me, it's

591
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: not that much of an needle in a haystack when

592
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: he's told you for two or three years you're a

593
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: part of my wheelhouse. When you can narrow down to

594
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: those good cruising days for him with the assumption he's

595
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: traveling a little ways to get there, and then you

596
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: can sit on some known rut funnels in that area

597
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,479
Speaker 1: that are a little bit thick might be inviting to him.

598
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: You know, he's actually probably be out through an open

599
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: hardwood wood lot or open field. He's going along a

600
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: thick edge somewhere, and then you're going in and popping

601
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: in for him and you shoot him, and it's it

602
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: makes it sound easy, but it's almost like you you

603
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: plan on that happening. He's told you he's going to

604
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: be there. You watch the weather, if you look for

605
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: the good days of set you go sit on a funnel,

606
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: and you've done everything to prepare for that moment, and

607
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: it's really he hasn't told you he's going to be

608
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: there the seventeenth of December, or mid December, or even

609
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: mid January, or August or September, early October, even the

610
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: end of October. He's told you he's gonna be back

611
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: during that window in early November. He's gonna be there

612
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: during daylight. And you just narrow it down and pick

613
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,239
Speaker 1: the right stands and you hunt. You can hunt three

614
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: or four steps for that box if you're just picking

615
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: around on those funnels, and you might find that you

616
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: moved by two of your other stand locations that day too,

617
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: because he's moving around so much. So to me, you

618
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: hunt a buck like that and it becomes a lot

619
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: easier than you might think. Yeah, so you touched on

620
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: one of the topics I was curious about, and I'm

621
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: wondering if your perspective on it is different outside of

622
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: the rut. So one of the things I was curious

623
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: about is what happens in your mind when a historical trend,

624
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: like an annual pattern, those dates arrive, but the conditions

625
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: don't match. So his window of of showing up for

626
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: you is usually like the seventh of the twelfth, let's say,

627
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: And this year, though, the seventh of the twelfth comes

628
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: up and you've got high creddy weather. Um, so what

629
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: you just told me during the rut would be, well,

630
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: you're gonna try to find the best cold weather days

631
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: within that window or close to it, because he won't

632
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: make that move on the hot weather day. Um. What

633
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: about if this situation, if this was a historical trend

634
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: we were trying to take advantage of not during the rut.

635
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: So if this was like man for whatever reason, he

636
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: always shows up mid October and he hangs out for

637
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: a week or something like that, or maybe same thing

638
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: but December. Um, does the match between dates and conditions

639
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,719
Speaker 1: matter more or less outside of the rut? Yeah, that's

640
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: a good question that to get depend on. You always

641
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: have to ask yourself why is he's showing up at

642
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: that time? Um. For example, we had a spot in

643
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,239
Speaker 1: Wisconsin that we would have some odd box show up

644
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: in mid October. Well, then we found out the neighbors

645
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: from Chicago were coming over and that's when they would

646
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: go into their cabin and they had a big hunting

647
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: weekend and they were in the middle of a hunter

648
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: and sixty acres mostly open hardwoods or cabins in the middle,

649
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: and they gross uh, side by side ATVs to their stands,

650
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: and it was just a big moment to push deer

651
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: off their land. And so if you knew that they

652
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: were there, we got to where we would actually drive

653
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: over and see if their date was open or not

654
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: to know what stands to sit in, because we would

655
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: make the assumption they're gonna push deer off their land

656
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: as soon as they came, as soon as they showed up,

657
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: as soon as they went hunting. And then in December,

658
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: I see a lot of cool boxers. A buck last year,

659
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: I was really hoping to hunt him, you know, shoot,

660
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: even though I only had two or three pitchers of

661
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: them throughout the entire season. I shot him during the

662
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: middle of muzzleloader season in early December in Wisconsin, and uh,

663
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: it was the first time I saw him in person,

664
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: and I was just hunting late season food sources and

665
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: I was making sure that it was with muzzleloader. I

666
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: shot him at like a hundred nine yards. It was

667
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: a little ways away, but it was a spot where

668
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: I could let those food sources sit not disturb them,

669
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: and uh, and just wait for that buck to show up.

670
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 1: And there's one other one I would have liked of

671
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: shot too, But between the two of them, you're just

672
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: waiting for one of them show up. And so I

673
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: guess you'd have to ask for the conditions. And in

674
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: those conditions right there where they're on feeding conditions, Yeah,

675
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: it's really windy and stormy, they're probably not out there.

676
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: And um, and then in that early season, um, whether

677
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: you know, maybe they're making a transition from their their

678
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: summer range to their fall. Um, maybe they only stick

679
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: around because you know, there's a lot of people to

680
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: overpressure their lands. So this box shows up, they come

681
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: in and get a couple of sits in there and

682
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: spook them off. Um. You know, so there's a lot

683
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: of When I go to clients, it's always interesting because

684
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: it's kind of an interview of yeah, we have this

685
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: big buck that shows up now, And so you start asking, well,

686
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: when do you hunt? When do your neighbors hunt? When

687
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: your food sources peak? Are your food sources dwindling at

688
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: that time? Do your food sources run out the end

689
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: of October? Um? You know, there's there's a lot of

690
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: conditions that you could you could really discuss and explore

691
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: with that, and that's part of the you know, like

692
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: you like to geek out that stuff too. It's kind

693
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: of like not just accepting that he's doing that, but

694
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: why he's doing that. And when it comes to that

695
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: that early November time, you know, I look at it

696
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: like you have about a ten day window, and and

697
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: you're gonna have about three really good days during that

698
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: ten day window. You're probably gonna have three or four

699
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: average days. I'd still hunt those average days, of course,

700
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: and then you're gonna have probably two or three dud

701
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: days and not say you don't hunt. A lot of

702
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: people have a rudcation and they need to get out

703
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: in the woods. So but I would slant my best

704
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 1: efforts are best fans towards those best weather days, and

705
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 1: us you're just constantly picking around and and kind of

706
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: going in making like jabs, kind of looking at like,

707
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: well this is uh, even though it's ten days, it's

708
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,919
Speaker 1: still a marathon, not a sprint, and you're still making

709
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 1: smart decisions. So yeah, I guess we touched on a

710
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,439
Speaker 1: few few things there. But I always ask yourself why

711
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: there's That's the fun part about it, is why why

712
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: is he showing up and leaving? Why is he not?

713
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,800
Speaker 1: So speaking of one of those wise and a condition

714
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 1: of sorts that I'm always wondering about when I'm looking

715
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: at pictures or observations and I'm trying to ask why

716
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: was he here? And do I think he'll come back again,

717
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: you know, tomorrow or whatever day I'm trying to plan out.

718
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: One of the factors that I always wonder how important

719
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,879
Speaker 1: is is is the wind direction? So like, was he

720
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: here because it was a south day? A south wind day?

721
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: And do all my pictures of him in this spot

722
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 1: end up being south wind days? Or is there some

723
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: kind of correlation between direction and him showing up in

724
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,919
Speaker 1: these places or not? Um? Do you look at wind

725
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: direction as being one of those big things that dictates,

726
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: you know, if a buck will show up in a

727
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: certain place or bed in a certain place, or travel

728
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: in a certain way? Um? And how important is that

729
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: to you? And looking at a historical trend if the

730
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: wind direction you have coming up doesn't match even though

731
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: the dates match in history or something like that. Yeah,

732
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: I love that question. One of the things I really

733
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: look at it. I look at it very methodically, meaning that, um,

734
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,879
Speaker 1: there's a buck moving in a certain area, whether it's

735
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: historical patterns that you've seen or you see current patterns.

736
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: And I have two stands in that location, I feel

737
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: like I can get in and out to one a

738
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: little bit better from morning, want a little bit better

739
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: for evening. Maybe I get into them both from morning

740
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: and evening, and I'm going to pick out. Okay, I

741
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: want to hunt Thursday. It's a decent day, and I'm

742
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: going to go hunt to stand that's best for the

743
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 1: wind and hope to see him. And I'm not gonna

744
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: look at it like he's only moving in that area

745
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: on a south wind day or north one day. I'm

746
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: gonna look at more of the absolute or lowest hole

747
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 1: in the bucket, meaning that I only have those two

748
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: stand locations. I'm only going to hunt him when the

749
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: wind is good for each stand. I want to try

750
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: to shoot that box, So I'm gonna go in and

751
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 1: try to shoot him regardless of what that wind direction

752
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: is that I think he's moving on. I want to

753
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: just go hunt the stands based on those winds. So

754
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: then I just I never even consider that, um, that

755
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: he's only moving in the spot in the north wind,

756
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: because I'll see the same buck moving the same spot

757
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: with even betting area locations. You'll move in or out

758
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: of that with different winds. And so I think you

759
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 1: get kind of into a trap where almost overthinking or

760
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: over analyzing that he's only gonna move on this wind.

761
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: He's moving somewhere during the other wind. And so I

762
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 1: want to make sure that I have a south wind stand,

763
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: and that means i'd hump this side of the betting area,

764
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: and if I have a north wind stand, I'm gonna

765
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: hump the other side. You know, they're they're different conflicting winds,

766
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: and that's what I got. You know, it's kind of

767
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: like these If I mean he's in the betting area,

768
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: I'm not going to miss the stop spot to hit

769
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: him because I only think he's moving on north winds.

770
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 1: And uh, I'm gonna try to have stands for alternate

771
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 1: winds and just just chip away at him. And that's

772
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: what I've found. Just you chip away at him two

773
00:37:52,520 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 1: or three times and you get lucky. I feel like

774
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: I need to bring us back to the beginning a

775
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 1: little bit too, even better understand how you're getting some

776
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: of this information because I got ahead of myself a

777
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: little bit because of the rut. But but probably to

778
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: get the information that you're talking about, this historical information,

779
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 1: these real time pictures, these observations, we got to talk

780
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: about how you get that data, um, because that then

781
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 1: gives you the tools you need to make a decision

782
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: on November one or October, November twelve, whatever it is. UM,

783
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: So can you walk me through what your process looks

784
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: like when you are trying to pattern a deer. Let's

785
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: just say the previous season had ended, it's the last

786
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 1: it's the first day of a new season, UM, and

787
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: in your mind, you know, hey, there's there's a buck

788
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: I know made it and I really want to kill

789
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: him in whatever so you want to be in. Can

790
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 1: you talk me through what you're doing throughout the year

791
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,320
Speaker 1: to build or to determine what that pattern is. Everything

792
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: from what scouting matters in this patterning process to what

793
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 1: camera work you're doing matters for this process. Two, if

794
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: you do any observation stuff that might build this out. UM.

795
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 1: You know, I know you're doing lots to have a

796
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: test that there's tons of other things you're doing, but

797
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: just specifically to the trying to develop a data set

798
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: to help you pattern on this deer. What does that

799
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: part of your process look like leading up to this season. Yeah,

800
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,879
Speaker 1: that's a good question. There's um I again, I love

801
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 1: talking about this stuff with you, Mark, It's fun. But

802
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: the uh, there's you could fast forward that all the

803
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 1: way to write current in the season and all the

804
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 1: way to the last day. You know, the day after

805
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: this season ends. You know, for one thing, you're knowing

806
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: that he's there, and you know, knowing it easy or

807
00:39:55,520 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: whether whether it's by personal observation, troll camera or signed

808
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: and so you know a lot of times when we'rend

809
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 1: privately and around here, we know what bucks made it

810
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: through the season. You know, neighbors might share a picture,

811
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:10,879
Speaker 1: you might see them, you might get your own picture.

812
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: You might find a shed you always around. Then you

813
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: start thinking about all the places that you saw and

814
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: you really start to narrow down. Now, some people will

815
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 1: go to a go to a map, you know, I

816
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: use hunt Wise, I use Onyx, and you know whatever

817
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 1: someone uses. But you can start placing pins for those box.

818
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: Some people take a paper map and they'll actually put

819
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: it on a whiteboard. Almost they're marking where they think

820
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: that Buck is I I just remember my head, you know,

821
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,240
Speaker 1: where where we've had pictures where we've seen them before,

822
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,879
Speaker 1: and then I'm making a reasonable estimation when I'm out

823
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 1: shed hunting, walking the property in the off season, you know,

824
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,919
Speaker 1: especially right after season ends, is what kind of sign

825
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: am I seeing to back that up? And you're looking

826
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: at like me and that you know, I've gotten pictures

827
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: of buck this certain buck here, and here, I found

828
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: a shed here, I got pictures here, and then I'm

829
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: finding this really good sign in between, and you start

830
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,879
Speaker 1: to like put the pictures together. When he comes through

831
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: this area, he's moving in this location. And then you're

832
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: going into the season with how can I have a

833
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 1: plan of attack where I can hunt here, here, and

834
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: here with different winds. Maybe a morning stand here that's

835
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: closer betting, an afternoon stand here that's closer to food.

836
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: You have that stand assemblance for that box, and then

837
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: you're actually going in and just chipping away at him

838
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 1: at that time where your pictures, your personal observations, the

839
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 1: signs popped up that you think is his, and then

840
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,399
Speaker 1: you're just going and for me, I picked those better

841
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: weather days. So if I was going in for a

842
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: buck like that, then I want to make sure that

843
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 1: the wind is perfect, that the weather is decent, and

844
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: then I'm going in with all that leading up to it.

845
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 1: I think he's moving through this funnel. I think I

846
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: can hunt this stand, and I'm not so much worrying about,

847
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: you know, what the wind direction is or anything like that,

848
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: other than I have these these three stands I have

849
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: set for this book. He moves through this area and

850
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: it's that time of year where he's around the signs

851
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 1: popping up. I'm getting pictures on whatever or historical and

852
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 1: so then I'm just making that methodical decision. While it's

853
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: a southwest wind, it's the evening stand I have. I

854
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: can hunt this one stand, So I go in on

855
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 1: it and I don't put much thought into it. I

856
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 1: kind of go at it a little bit more black

857
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 1: and white so that it doesn't cloud my my thoughts,

858
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: you know, you just just what I have. I'm gonna

859
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,240
Speaker 1: go on them, and and that can even apply to uh,

860
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 1: Like there's a real nice buck to the shot. I

861
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: think it's going back to a little boy two thousand

862
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: eleven on public Land in the up of Michigan. I

863
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 1: went to scout for opening day of gun season, and

864
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 1: I'm way out in the swamps, raised to hunt on

865
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 1: public land, going about forty five minutes. My son Jake

866
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: and I were actually their last chant opening day in Michigan, UM,

867
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: which was a different story, but uh that. Uh. I

868
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: went in there and there are some giant rubs. And

869
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 1: when you find rubs out in the public lane in Michigan,

870
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: you start looking for bait piles. And if there's no

871
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 1: bait piles, then in these rubs are a few and

872
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 1: far between. You start to think, man, this is a

873
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: daytime pattern. You know, it's way out away from bait piles,

874
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: other people, other access points. You start to think, man,

875
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 1: this I could be onto something. So here I'm hunting

876
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 1: sign I'm hunting big robs, a couple of big scrapes.

877
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, okay, I can go through this marsh, I

878
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: blow my scent out. I can sit in here in

879
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: a little cluster of conifer. I actually took the boys

880
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 1: out on opening day with me, drug them back there.

881
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 1: They were like eight and ten chairs and pop up

882
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: and everything. Sit there all day. Dante, my stepson, thought

883
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: he saw a giant bucket one o'clock in the afternoon.

884
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 1: I didn't see it other than a body. He said

885
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: it was really big, and he's not one to make

886
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: things up. We said we had a four point walk

887
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: right bias. And so that was a Tuesday opener, I believe.

888
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 1: And then two days later on Thursday, I went out

889
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: there and went out for a morning hunt, and he

890
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 1: ended up walking right into my lap. And I'm sure

891
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: that was the buck that was making that sign, ended

892
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: up being close to hunter point. He's beautiful. If that

893
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: was an example where I'm hunting sign, I'm hunting funnels,

894
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: I'm hunting. This is what I have. I can hunt

895
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: with west winds. I don't care what you know. It

896
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 1: doesn't I don't know what windy's moving on, but I

897
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: can only hunt with westerly winds on the edge of

898
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,919
Speaker 1: that swamp. I'm not gonna walk through this funnel where

899
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 1: I think he's moving through. So it worked out on

900
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 1: Thursday that happened to be a pretty good co front

901
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,959
Speaker 1: that moved through Tuesday night Wednesday, so I went out.

902
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: It was chili frosty and and uh, he ended up

903
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 1: coming right through to me, and that was I didn't

904
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 1: I didn't know what do you look like? Until literally

905
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: I walked up to him, and he was dead, you know,

906
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 1: other than partial mature antler big buck, you know, at

907
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: forty yards or whatever it was and shot and and

908
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 1: I got lucky and fun so kind of the same scenario.

909
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: This is what I have for stands in that area.

910
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: That's where I think he's moving. This is the time

911
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: of year. I have evidence these there, whether it's i'm pictures,

912
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: personal observation. And then you're going in with your planet

913
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: of attack, being careful. You're not going in too soon,

914
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: You're not going in too often. Meaning I have some

915
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: people someone asked you that are day on YouTube. They said,

916
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 1: what what happens you want to hunt this box certain

917
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 1: stand location? What happens if the wind's wrong. I just

918
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 1: don't understand. I don't even consider it. It's it's just

919
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: something that I have. These three stands are good for

920
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: these winds. This one, these two are evening. This one's

921
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: morning wind, you know morning stands. And UM, and I

922
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: look at like, okay, when I get that wind and

923
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 1: that's a decent day, I'm going in for him. I

924
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 1: can't remember if we've talked about this, Jeff. If we did,

925
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:41,399
Speaker 1: it's been a while. Um, what's your take? I mean,

926
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: you sort of answered this when I asked you about

927
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 1: that wind direction correlation or not correlation to whether they

928
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 1: moved there or not. But but a lot of folks,

929
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: you know, talk about hunting spots where the wind is

930
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: right for the buck, where the buck can quarter in

931
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 1: or have the wind in his face, and then the

932
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 1: hunter tries to set up with a just off win

933
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 1: like a wind that's just gonna cut off the corner

934
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: of where they think this buck's coming. Do you do

935
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 1: you what do you think about that? Is that something

936
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: you I think we've talked about that. Now. If if

937
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: I had my preference, it would be a little bit

938
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: um in the buck faver where they have that assumption

939
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: of you know, it's kind of like when we're hunting

940
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: in the hills around here and we're hunting high in

941
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 1: the morning. He's got those thermals rising from below, and

942
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: I think he's walking because he has that advantage of

943
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,399
Speaker 1: scent checking down down below him. Um. You know, he's

944
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: walking to a purpose like that, um and uh. And

945
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: so for the rock this ideal, he's walking between embedding

946
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:39,439
Speaker 1: areas you can send check down below for a hundred

947
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:44,280
Speaker 1: hundred fifty yards. But again I'm looking at that um.

948
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 1: You know, a buck I shout out here two years ago,

949
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: Kermit um there was. I went out to that stand

950
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: a day or two days earlier, and it's a stand

951
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 1: we called the Kermit Stand now. But I went out

952
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 1: to the Kermit stand. Had a reasonable expectation that he

953
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 1: would in this area based on trail cameras. I hadn't

954
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: seen him personally, and uh, we had trail cameras starting

955
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: the end of June, but I he wasn't. We didn't

956
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 1: have a lot of pictures of him, but enough to

957
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: know he was in this area. I was in his

958
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,280
Speaker 1: wheelhouse and went out to that stand. And the wind

959
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 1: so imagine I'm looking into the woods, not even thinking

960
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: about direction or anything. I'm looking into the woods, and

961
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 1: the wind was kind of light, and it was going

962
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 1: like from left to right, a little bit of an

963
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,320
Speaker 1: angle out behind me, if that makes sense. I'm looking

964
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 1: straight downhill into the woods. The problem is is because

965
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,760
Speaker 1: it was forecasted to let's say, three or four miles

966
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 1: an hour at dark and then getting calm two to

967
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 1: three hours after dark, the wind always basically foreshadows what's

968
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: going to happen, and so I'm sitting there three hours

969
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 1: before dark, and I'm looking at like, Okay, this wind

970
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 1: is really good for favorable for him if he comes

971
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,359
Speaker 1: from the right side. Where he comes from the left side,

972
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: I'm on a bench point. There's a deep steep drawings

973
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:00,839
Speaker 1: in front of me about thirty yards, so he comes

974
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 1: through this pinch. The problem is the closer it got

975
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:06,280
Speaker 1: too dark. I knew as I sat there. I'm sitting

976
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 1: there three hours before and when the wind let up,

977
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: my sons starting to go right back downhill because the

978
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: carminals were gonna eventually pull it right downhill. So I

979
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 1: actually left that stand and went to another stand where

980
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 1: I could count on the wind in a better location.

981
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 1: Went back two days later, and now the winds right

982
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: in my face, blowing right out to the field behind me.

983
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 1: So in that case, it's a ninety degree wind. Um

984
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: it's he would have had to move through ninety grees.

985
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 1: He has zero, um zero benefit of that wind. But

986
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 1: I went in there and I ended up shooting him

987
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 1: that night. So it's kind of one of those where

988
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 1: if I got too hung up, but I needed to

989
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 1: hunt that quarter wind where it's kind of a grangle

990
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 1: and it's coming into his face a little bit. What

991
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: happened is after I shot him went down there, we

992
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: pulled that camera card on that scrape mock scrape that

993
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,359
Speaker 1: I have right there. He came in that night where

994
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: I first sat. He came in from that direction of

995
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 1: the wind, and I think more than fifty chance he

996
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:01,959
Speaker 1: would have winded me and I would have never shot

997
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,359
Speaker 1: that buck. That would have been my opportunity. So if

998
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: I would have held on too much to that quarter

999
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 1: wind instead of just making sure that it's a safe

1000
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 1: wind mostly and just hunt with what the stands I

1001
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: had available, that I think, uh, I think I would

1002
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: have ruined that hunt if I would have placed too

1003
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 1: much for a priority on that. So um, again it

1004
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 1: goes back to these are my stands. And you know,

1005
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: of course, if I could move in and set up

1006
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 1: you know, hanging hunt really quick and get that done.

1007
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,800
Speaker 1: I've done that in the past, um and and had success.

1008
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: You know, it's crazy they did that in the past.

1009
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 1: And it was two thousand three, shot a real nice buck,

1010
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: and and it was I did a hanging hunt and

1011
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 1: he came from the exact opposite direction. I thought it

1012
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: all worked out. But you know, it sounds so smart

1013
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: that I saw him go in here. I saw him

1014
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 1: fight in the morning. I tried sneaking up on him

1015
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 1: with my socks on, and frosty Grass got close and

1016
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: didn't realize how close he was. He ran off on

1017
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,360
Speaker 1: another buck and the dough. They weren't a certain to reaction.

1018
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: I thought he'd come out a one betting area. It

1019
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 1: came out the exact opposite. I happened to be on

1020
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 1: the downwind side of both, you know, kind of that

1021
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 1: barbell in between, and uh, and it worked out. But um,

1022
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: you know again, it was more this is the wind

1023
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 1: I had for the conditions, and you just go go set.

1024
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: So you mentioned with that public land buck that you

1025
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: had really used that sign to key in on him,

1026
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,879
Speaker 1: because you know, rubs are not a super common thing

1027
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 1: in that big woods public land kind of stuff, So

1028
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:31,839
Speaker 1: when you see a concentration of him, it's it's it's

1029
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: a particularly good sign. That brought to mind the question

1030
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 1: for me of how helpful physical sign is to patterning

1031
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: specific bucks, Like I know, like general sign will tell you, oh,

1032
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: I'm in an area with with good deer, maybe like

1033
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 1: if you're just trying to shoot a deer, but if

1034
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 1: you're trying to shoot like the deer you mentioned. You

1035
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: mentioned that sometimes you'll try to you signed to clearly

1036
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 1: tell you something. But I guess what I'm trying to

1037
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 1: get here is is what kind of sign or how

1038
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: what level of detail have you ever been able to

1039
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: get with sign tying it to a specific Bucks pattern?

1040
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: Like have you ever found a unique thing on a

1041
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: Bucks track and use that? Or have you ever looked

1042
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: at rubs and said, okay, anytime I find a rub,

1043
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: this got this super huge guage right down the middle.

1044
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 1: That's got to be this one buck with a sticker

1045
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 1: point or is there anything like that that you look for? Yeah,

1046
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 1: I guess you know. With um just sign in general.

1047
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: I love historical sign and so when I'm looking for

1048
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 1: where he might go through a funnel, UM, I want

1049
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,359
Speaker 1: to find old robs, new robs, and just something about

1050
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 1: sign in general. When you're hunting public land, like I

1051
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 1: I'm hunting big public land in southeast Ohio, um Shawnee

1052
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 1: State Forest, Wayne National Forest, or uh, you know something

1053
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 1: big like that, the rubs can be few and far

1054
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 1: between unless you're near private land and they have food plots,

1055
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: and so you you might be out there looking for

1056
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: sign and you need to realize a big rob on

1057
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: a funnel might be every two yards, like it wasn't

1058
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 1: the Up of Michigan, where it's big, big open wilderness area.

1059
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 1: It might not be concentrated, meaning concentrated for that area,

1060
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 1: where on private land that might be really clustered. In short,

1061
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 1: I had a buck in the up of Michigan, um

1062
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: going back early two thousand's maybe, and he had a

1063
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,879
Speaker 1: broken track, so on one of his tracks you could

1064
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: tell his toe had had broke off, So it was

1065
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: kind of blunt and uh and short, you know, half

1066
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 1: instry corn. It was very distinguishable. And so I actually

1067
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 1: kept scrapes opener patches on the land we owned and

1068
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 1: out on the public land, so that I could when

1069
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 1: he came through that area. It was very easy to

1070
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 1: tell whether it was on our sand trails, on a scrape,

1071
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:52,800
Speaker 1: or on an open patch on a trail that was

1072
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 1: in front of a tree stand that I had made

1073
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 1: a patch. It wasn't even necessarily a scrape. Then I

1074
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 1: could tell when he came through, and it was interested

1075
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:01,840
Speaker 1: him because when he came through, he'd come from the east.

1076
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:04,800
Speaker 1: He'd go into the property, and then he'd go north

1077
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 1: and and then i'd lose them. So it's almost like

1078
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 1: an l of movement. And that l was half mile

1079
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: that way in three quarters a mile to a mile

1080
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:14,520
Speaker 1: to the north, and so the pretty long area. It

1081
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 1: was interesting when he came through, he kind of make

1082
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,359
Speaker 1: that whole loop. So I'd find this track here here here,

1083
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: and so again it was okay, I can hunt him

1084
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 1: with this wind and this stand, this wind, with this

1085
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: stand maybe more morning here. I thought he was coming

1086
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 1: from the north, moving south and then cutting east, so

1087
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 1: I consider that, and it was in the evening. I

1088
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 1: shot him on the northernmost most trail right made a

1089
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 1: clearing and I just found his track and I shot

1090
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: him right on that same spot. Um with a bow.

1091
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 1: I was a December time, and he ended up having

1092
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 1: that broken track. And that's the first time I actually

1093
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 1: knew what buck he was. You know, that was him

1094
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 1: with the track, and it was a medium sized track.

1095
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 1: I would say that he was a two and a

1096
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,359
Speaker 1: half to three and a half year old buck. Um.

1097
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:00,800
Speaker 1: In fact, I would I would lean or towards two.

1098
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: Um at that time was about twenty years ago. So

1099
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 1: but um, he was a you know, that was a

1100
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 1: fun one. Gouges. What I really like is is looking

1101
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 1: behind the rub and above, so you have the face

1102
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 1: of the robb, i'd call it, and then you can

1103
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:20,359
Speaker 1: his antlers are angled, and so that upper beam that's

1104
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:22,839
Speaker 1: on the back side. That can tell you a lot too,

1105
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 1: because you can start to guestimate about how wide that

1106
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 1: buck was that made that rub. You can see if

1107
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 1: there's any stickers or kickers. And when you're in an

1108
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 1: area like some of the big wilderness, serious public land

1109
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 1: that might not have as good a habitat or food sources,

1110
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: then it's it's uncharacteristic to have non typical genes expressed.

1111
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,240
Speaker 1: When they're younger, they don't have a lot of stickers, kickers,

1112
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 1: little forks. And so when you start seeing that in

1113
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 1: some of those areas that are kind of remote, you think, man,

1114
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:50,320
Speaker 1: this could be a this could be an older box

1115
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,760
Speaker 1: just because it's got some stickers and kickers that aren't

1116
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 1: that common and on those cleaner racks when they're younger,

1117
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 1: and so something like that too, or I'm really I like, like,

1118
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 1: I don't take a lot of I don't put a

1119
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,479
Speaker 1: lot of credibility and that that same box is gonna

1120
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 1: go right back by that same rob. But it lets

1121
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: me noise in the area, and then I'm back down

1122
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: to hunting funnels and how can I get in and out?

1123
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 1: I think people can get wrapped up and Okay, he's

1124
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 1: got to be moving through here. But then you forced

1125
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 1: to stand location because um, there's really not a good

1126
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: spot to sat or you have to walk through that

1127
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: area and leave your scent when you could shoot him

1128
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 1: just as easy on a funnel nearby. Yeah, this is

1129
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:29,720
Speaker 1: this is kind of an interesting thing. I just realized

1130
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: we've been talking about patterning deer for like forty seven

1131
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: minutes give a take, and and we have almost not

1132
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 1: talked about trail cameras at all, Like it's been kind

1133
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:45,959
Speaker 1: of referenced a little bit lately, but we haven't really

1134
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 1: hammered it yet. That's kind of incredible that we've talked

1135
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,240
Speaker 1: for forty seven minutes and not gotten into cameras because

1136
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:56,800
Speaker 1: so many people rely on cameras almost for their scouting

1137
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 1: and patterning. Um, so I'm glad that's actually been the

1138
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 1: case because I think it's important to point out to

1139
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 1: folks that patterning deer is not just a trail camera game. Right.

1140
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 1: There's there's all these other things. There's the observations. There's

1141
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 1: the history, there's what are gonna say, Well, yeah, you

1142
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 1: know what's interesting. You might have trail camp pictures from

1143
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 1: two or three years ago, but if you know that

1144
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:23,320
Speaker 1: box around you, for whatever reason, you've had the historical

1145
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: movement and patterning, you just neem to always there to

1146
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:28,279
Speaker 1: go and kill him. I was gonna mention though, is

1147
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: it's interesting you'll see uh, you know public land hunters

1148
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 1: that do something a certain way privately and hunters that

1149
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 1: do something and and I know, Mark, you've flunted a

1150
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 1: lot I'm privately and on public land, and I know

1151
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 1: you it's I know you know, it's darned hard on

1152
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 1: both for different reasons. It's interesting. I saw a mean

1153
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 1: going around where, you know, someone had eight camera locations

1154
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: on a forty acre property or a d acre property,

1155
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: and someone that public land hunts was saying, you know,

1156
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 1: you know something making fun of that kind of like, yeah,

1157
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 1: let's let's pattern this spot. This is gonna be difficult.

1158
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 1: And you know, eight cameras on forty acres, you know

1159
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 1: how many cameras ruin it for people? Meaning that they

1160
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:11,879
Speaker 1: go back, they can't leave them alone. They're they're going

1161
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 1: in and checking them all the time, they're changing batteries,

1162
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 1: they have too many a box TM, it can spook

1163
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 1: them away. And it's really hard on forty acres because

1164
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 1: if you mess up on forty acres for a particular

1165
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 1: buck and you're using trail cameras and you're really pushing

1166
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: things too hard, you have nowhere else to go. You

1167
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 1: might not be back. You might not be back that

1168
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 1: season where I'm publicly and you can at least go

1169
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: a half mile away over here, quarter mile away over here.

1170
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 1: I mean how you can drive fifty miles away and

1171
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 1: hunt some other spot. And so I'm not saying it's

1172
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 1: easier on one day or the other. But I think

1173
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 1: it's funny that you know, traill cameras can be picked

1174
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 1: on a little bit um as it makes it easier.

1175
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: When the way a lot of people use them, I

1176
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: think it makes it harder for them. They know the

1177
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 1: bucks there um and but there's a certain percentage out

1178
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 1: there or it can really hurt their hunt. Yeah, you

1179
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 1: make a great point, and I guess that's you're doing

1180
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: a wonderful job of helping me as a host here,

1181
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 1: because that's a perfect segue to the next thing. I

1182
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 1: think we had to cover. How do we how do

1183
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 1: you recommend we use cameras two pattern deer and not

1184
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 1: do what you just said, which is educate the deer.

1185
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 1: Mess this up, make it harder than it has to be. UM,

1186
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 1: I know you've I've watched lots of videos. I've heard

1187
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 1: you talk about your your thought process behind placing cameras

1188
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: where you hunt, like right at your stand locations, which

1189
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 1: is another thing most people don't do. UM, could you

1190
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 1: talk a little about your location choices and then how

1191
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 1: you're doing that so that you get the data you

1192
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: need to pattern a deer without educating him. Sure, I've

1193
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 1: you know, and it's I really like, UM, And I

1194
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 1: do this out on public land where identify a natural

1195
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: scrape and a funnel that I want to hunt or

1196
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 1: want to know about. You know, it seems like it

1197
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 1: might be that X of movement between clear cuts away

1198
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 1: from people, lay the land, uh pinch point of something,

1199
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 1: and so you're you're putting a camera on a scrape.

1200
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 1: But I'm I'm using those cameras. I would say, my

1201
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: cameras are are within bow shot of my stand locations,

1202
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 1: and I'm doing that because I want to know effective

1203
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 1: that stand location is for one. UM, I like getting

1204
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 1: pictures at my stand locations. We use mock scrapes. But

1205
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 1: I what I'm doing with those cameras, and I'm making

1206
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 1: sure that they're not part of the picture, meaning that

1207
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 1: they're most of the time there are six ft high,

1208
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 1: or they're hidden back in a v meaning that um,

1209
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: there's covering on both sides, the profiles hidden. UM, it's

1210
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 1: just kind of like they're shining out in a cove

1211
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 1: and there's really not much of a reason for you

1212
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 1: to walk by. M C M. Notice some I'm using

1213
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 1: blackout cameras so that um or low glow, so you

1214
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 1: don't have this red glow UM. So that time you

1215
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 1: play them high, you place them on something typically that's wider,

1216
00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 1: typically their profiles hidden. Then it becomes a non fact

1217
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 1: to the deer. And then I'm only changing that card

1218
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 1: when I actually hunt that stand, And it might be

1219
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 1: that I hunt a stand, and then on the way

1220
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: out in the evening, I know those deer feeding somewhere

1221
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 1: all night away from where I'm hunting, so I might

1222
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 1: change to other cards on the way back because it's

1223
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: a similar access route. So I'm not taking this eleven

1224
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 1: o'clock drive on the a t V to go out

1225
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 1: and change trail camera cards. I'm keeping the cameras hidden.

1226
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 1: And then what I really like about that is when

1227
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:29,560
Speaker 1: we use a mox scrape and it's right at that location,

1228
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 1: a lot of times you have that buck come in,

1229
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 1: they're focusing on that mock scrape. They're they're literally staring

1230
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 1: at the scrape. They don't notice the camera, they don't

1231
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 1: know this us in the stand. And whether that's a

1232
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:42,960
Speaker 1: natural scrape that you're hunting on public land or a

1233
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 1: mox scrape on private land, it's a really good tool.

1234
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 1: I mean even for younger hunters or inexperienced hunters where

1235
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 1: you can actually have take the focus away from them

1236
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 1: potentially moving in the tree and a deer looking up

1237
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 1: at them when they're really focusing on We see those

1238
01:00:58,040 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 1: and pons focus on those scrapes just as much as

1239
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 1: those those bucks that come through too. Yeah, kind where

1240
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 1: uses cameras? You know, I I use him at I

1241
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 1: like having him at the stand locations. And at the

1242
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 1: same time, you know, of course cellular cameras um are

1243
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 1: our big advantage, but it can can aggravate you because

1244
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 1: you're hunting one spot and last night Dylan and I

1245
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 1: were at one stand hunting and the buck were afters

1246
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 1: at another stand, and when he left that camera, I

1247
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 1: didn't even tell Dylan til later. We're both hoping each

1248
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 1: show up, obviously, but if he would have come our way,

1249
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:36,440
Speaker 1: we've got another one or two pictures of them, and

1250
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 1: by him only giving us one picture, that means he

1251
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 1: turned left and went away from us. So it can

1252
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:46,080
Speaker 1: be frustrating because you know, unless you make some giant

1253
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 1: loop or something active, god happens, he's not He's not

1254
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 1: coming our way, so or he's there and it's close

1255
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:56,720
Speaker 1: to dark and he's not where you're at. I want

1256
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 1: to come back to the cell camera thing, but before that,

1257
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 1: I want to touch on the mock scrape thing a bit,

1258
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 1: because you you have a unique approach. You've done some

1259
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 1: great videos on it. So I definitely recommend folks that

1260
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 1: if if they hear about this and they're intrigued, they

1261
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:13,680
Speaker 1: should go to your YouTube channel watch the videos. But

1262
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 1: could you give us the quick cliff notes on that again,

1263
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 1: just in case someone hasn't heard you talk about this

1264
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 1: in the past. How do you make these mock scrapes?

1265
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 1: It just seemed so they seem particularly effective for getting

1266
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 1: these deer to stop in front of that camera and

1267
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 1: give you that information you need, you know, for patterning

1268
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 1: or a shot. Well there, Yeah, there are a lot

1269
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 1: of fun and um you know, I kind of stumbled

1270
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 1: upon it because in the past there's people like Tonio

1271
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 1: la Pratt in southern Michigan, I would say late nineties,

1272
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 1: early two thousands. Um, there are other other individuals to um.

1273
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 1: I want to say bow hunting told the Wenzel brothers

1274
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 1: might have used this in the past two maybe that's

1275
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 1: where Tony got it from. But anyways, they're using a

1276
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: rope um and hanging up for um a branch And

1277
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 1: so I'd see these ropes in the early two thousands,

1278
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 1: and I'd go to start going to properties and I'd

1279
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 1: see I went to one property, they literally had five

1280
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:13,160
Speaker 1: scrapes on two acres and they're all robe and a

1281
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 1: few of them are getting hit here and there, but

1282
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 1: nothing really that jumped out of here. And then I

1283
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 1: start seeing these. Some of my favorite natural scrapes I

1284
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: see on client properties are scouting in general for myself

1285
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 1: are our vines that are hanging down and it's just crazy.

1286
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 1: And some of the first scrapes I ever saw back

1287
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 1: in the eighties, back in Clarkston in Michigan, in that area.

1288
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 1: Now it's all deerwoods estates and subdivisions, but you had

1289
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:39,200
Speaker 1: these noles back in the hardwoods. I didn't even know

1290
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 1: those scrapes where I had to show a guy out

1291
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 1: bigger from church, So what are these like these deer

1292
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 1: around here, like those are scrapes or making them under

1293
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:48,960
Speaker 1: those vines and so anyways, I got the idea of

1294
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 1: just hanging those and who broke jackpine branches in the

1295
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 1: up and Michigan and then hanging those vines. And what

1296
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 1: I found was is that when you put a camera

1297
01:03:57,200 --> 01:03:59,680
Speaker 1: on them, we'd hang these vines and more of a

1298
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:01,480
Speaker 1: deer trail area, not off to the side of the

1299
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 1: traditional scrape at the edge of the like at the

1300
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:06,040
Speaker 1: edge of the field. We put it where they're coming

1301
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 1: in and out in the trail or on a funnel.

1302
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:11,200
Speaker 1: And every year that walks by, because it's right in

1303
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:13,000
Speaker 1: the trail, we hang him at waste time. Instead of

1304
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 1: a traditional looking branch, it's chest tie where a buck

1305
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 1: would mostly hit. So then when they come by and

1306
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 1: it's about waste tie, it's right in the middle of

1307
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 1: the trail, we have dose fawns and box leaving their

1308
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:25,160
Speaker 1: scent on it, the preor oble to gland scent every

1309
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 1: time they come through. And so then to me, the

1310
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 1: more scent that included on that, the more deer hit it.

1311
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 1: It just becomes a part of their travel pattern. And

1312
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:36,120
Speaker 1: I really strongly feel that. You know what, when you

1313
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 1: have a scrape like that and it's a vertical scrape

1314
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 1: paint over a branch where all deer can participate, then

1315
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:45,320
Speaker 1: including phones, we have some really cool lots of footage

1316
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 1: of fawns coming in and dancing around the scrape, playing

1317
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 1: with it, going back. You can imagine this fall. It's

1318
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:51,680
Speaker 1: not even two months old. They don't even know what

1319
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 1: all those smells are. Their tails are flickering, they're curious,

1320
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:57,439
Speaker 1: they run around, they come back to it. But when

1321
01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 1: every deer's leaving their scent there, you can take four

1322
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 1: or five trails Nario and narrow it down to one

1323
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 1: where that's where they're going to go. And so then

1324
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 1: we put a camera on it. What I find is

1325
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 1: during the summertime, well I'll have cameras on my cruising

1326
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:16,479
Speaker 1: scrapes just to know when a buck comes through. They'll

1327
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:19,480
Speaker 1: always tell you they're alive, you know, meaning that maybe

1328
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:21,480
Speaker 1: they only come through once in July, a couple of

1329
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:24,000
Speaker 1: times in August, couple of times in September, but they'll

1330
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,560
Speaker 1: come through that that funnel where you expect to shoot

1331
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 1: him in the fall. And so all of a sudden

1332
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 1: he comes through. Anything. Man, that's that buck. I want,

1333
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 1: that's him, that's that target buck. And he's he's coming,

1334
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 1: he's licking at and then I think he likes all

1335
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 1: that smell. I' it's you know, we we can't comprehend

1336
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 1: their noses. You know, we go buy and smell bread.

1337
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:44,919
Speaker 1: They go buy and smell the ingredients and approximately which

1338
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 1: one stronger than the other. So they're they're they're completely

1339
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:49,440
Speaker 1: I mean, think about a beagle where they hit a

1340
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:53,080
Speaker 1: track of a rabbit, no snow, no rain, no mud,

1341
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 1: and they know exactly in the moment which way to

1342
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 1: turn and follow that rabbit based purely on set. So

1343
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 1: their noses are so unique. So they go by and

1344
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 1: they small these liking branches and those that peri over

1345
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 1: the gland scent. To me, it's that accumulation of all

1346
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:11,280
Speaker 1: those gear together, and so they're about waist high I

1347
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 1: hang roast those branches like jack pine up north vines

1348
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:19,040
Speaker 1: down here. Um oak branches work really well. It's anything

1349
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:21,840
Speaker 1: that traditionally gets rubbed quite a bit or scraped under

1350
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,680
Speaker 1: hemlock in some areas well. Then I'm hanging that. Usually

1351
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 1: there are five to seven ft long. I'm hanging them

1352
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 1: from a rope a branch. Typically, if it's really open,

1353
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 1: say you're hanging it like in a two track area

1354
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 1: where there's a big hardwin on both sides, not a

1355
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 1: lot of branches. I might make that vine or branch

1356
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 1: more like eight feet long seven or nine ft, and

1357
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 1: then I'll put a rope um twelve feet up in

1358
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 1: the air or thirteen feet up, stand on the back

1359
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 1: of the tailgate of the truck, or use the steps

1360
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:53,040
Speaker 1: on a from a ladder to get up a little

1361
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 1: bit on either side. And uh and so it looks

1362
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 1: more natural. You don't want to have this one ft

1363
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 1: piece of vine just there. I think that's unnatural to them.

1364
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:04,959
Speaker 1: So a little bit longer when it's more open like that,

1365
01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 1: but we're usually using three quarters of an inch to

1366
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:11,439
Speaker 1: an inch. It seems like smaller will still attract them,

1367
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 1: but it's not as visible. But it'll break and then larger.

1368
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 1: At some point it's just too big, you know. Uh,

1369
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:20,600
Speaker 1: it was a baseball bat hanging there. They might rub it,

1370
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 1: they might not, but it seems to be that sweet

1371
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:25,400
Speaker 1: spot that we found about three quarters of an inch

1372
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 1: to an inch. We've had those scrapes last for five,

1373
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 1: six seven years before we've had to change them, and

1374
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 1: so it it's crazy. We have footage of box mature box,

1375
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:38,080
Speaker 1: five six year old box that go up to those

1376
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:40,640
Speaker 1: and after they leave their scent on it, they literally

1377
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:43,280
Speaker 1: moved their antlers away from the scrape the licking branch

1378
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 1: and keep walking as if it's sacred or something. They

1379
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:49,320
Speaker 1: just left their scent. It's a former communication and so

1380
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:52,680
Speaker 1: it's really cool to watch the behavior of the box

1381
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:55,000
Speaker 1: around there. You can you know, they can regressive for

1382
01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:58,120
Speaker 1: about ten days out of the year, maybe another week

1383
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 1: during the second roun, but other than that and might

1384
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 1: have some snap but for the most part, um they're

1385
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 1: leaving them alone, they leave their scent. They might play

1386
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 1: with them hard here and there during the peak of

1387
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:10,520
Speaker 1: the rut or right at the pre rod or something,

1388
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:13,080
Speaker 1: but for the most part, it's crazy to see the

1389
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 1: number of bucks we have that literally move their head

1390
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:18,599
Speaker 1: away from it to walk around, and they know exactly,

1391
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 1: of course how wide their antlers are, just to not

1392
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 1: touch it with their antlers after they left their sun so. Um,

1393
01:08:24,280 --> 01:08:26,839
Speaker 1: we usually put them in definitely on a flat surface

1394
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:31,679
Speaker 1: within shooting distance of the stand location. And I'll start

1395
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:34,639
Speaker 1: those a lot of times in May, June, July, and

1396
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:36,880
Speaker 1: cleared out three or four feet, kick it down door.

1397
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:39,559
Speaker 1: I'm kicking out ruts and everything with my feet. Um.

1398
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:41,840
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'll actually pee on the scrape when I leave.

1399
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:44,880
Speaker 1: Sometimes they don't, and and then we put a camera

1400
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 1: on it and see what happens. Yeah, it's interesting you.

1401
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:50,120
Speaker 1: I think a key thing to point out is that

1402
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:53,479
Speaker 1: you're saying that not only do these mock scrapes help

1403
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 1: you get the pictures to confirm you know there's deer here,

1404
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 1: but it's been at your experience. This is actually tightening

1405
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:05,360
Speaker 1: the funnel of deer movements. So not only are you

1406
01:09:05,400 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 1: identifying when they're coming through more often because this camera

1407
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 1: location is so great, but it actually is a draw

1408
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:14,040
Speaker 1: that takes what might have been four trails that buck

1409
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:16,120
Speaker 1: might have possibly taken in an area, and now instead

1410
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:19,559
Speaker 1: he's almost always taking this one. So it's it's giving

1411
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 1: me giving you grant great data, and then it's tightening

1412
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 1: and making the data coming through even more consistent because

1413
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 1: it's an attractive location. Um, So that's and two two

1414
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 1: things with that too, markets what's cools. We've had some

1415
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:35,120
Speaker 1: mature box we've never had on a scrape, a scrape

1416
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 1: that's only two months old, and they'll literally will see

1417
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 1: them walking from it away with their head pointed right

1418
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 1: at their nose pointing at the scrape like they can

1419
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 1: smell it or see it at night they can smell it.

1420
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:48,720
Speaker 1: They walk right to it and work it like they've

1421
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:51,639
Speaker 1: been doing it all the time, and it's it's really cool.

1422
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:53,880
Speaker 1: And I was just gonna mention now. The second cool

1423
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:56,280
Speaker 1: thing is that's free except where we figured out I

1424
01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:58,960
Speaker 1: think it was likety cents for a parachute cord for

1425
01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 1: ope usually on average, so it's next to nothing. We

1426
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 1: don't use any scent. But it really is cool how

1427
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 1: they'll see that from a long ways away and just

1428
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 1: come right into it like they've been, you know, first time.

1429
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:13,599
Speaker 1: It seems like the first time anyway, So here's here's

1430
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:16,000
Speaker 1: the next question. Then, though, what if someone's listening today

1431
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:21,639
Speaker 1: on October or November one or something, and he hears

1432
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 1: this and he's like, oh wow, this sounds like a

1433
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 1: great way to get better trail cam data or or whatever.

1434
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:29,760
Speaker 1: We've talked about the various benefits. Um, is there any

1435
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:33,519
Speaker 1: way to use some portion of your mock scrape strategy

1436
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 1: still at this point or is it too late? I mean,

1437
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:39,760
Speaker 1: what's your what's how would you approach this if you

1438
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 1: were starting now, like you're on a weeklong rut caastion

1439
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:44,800
Speaker 1: and you don't have these places all set up, but

1440
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:47,320
Speaker 1: you've got four cameras in your truck, and you showed

1441
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:50,760
Speaker 1: up at your lease with a seven day period ahead

1442
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:53,240
Speaker 1: of you, and you're thinking, man, I gotta get some intel,

1443
01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:55,840
Speaker 1: and maybe for whatever reason you don't have stuff out already.

1444
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:58,400
Speaker 1: Is there some way to put up new mock scrapes

1445
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:00,920
Speaker 1: right now, put your cameras on and still get some

1446
01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:03,360
Speaker 1: available intel for the next few days or is it

1447
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:07,559
Speaker 1: too late for all that? Yeah? Definitely, and especially if

1448
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:10,920
Speaker 1: you're putting cameras out already. To me, the disturbance of

1449
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:12,360
Speaker 1: putting a camera out, you might as well hang a

1450
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:15,160
Speaker 1: mox scrape if you can, you know, especially if it's

1451
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:18,840
Speaker 1: off the branch um. We're cutting a fresh vine or

1452
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:21,720
Speaker 1: a fresh stick, trying not to put your handprint down there.

1453
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:23,479
Speaker 1: That can stay there for a while, but we've had

1454
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:25,880
Speaker 1: deer hit it within a day even with doing that.

1455
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:28,200
Speaker 1: And then we're putting it right over a trail fare

1456
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 1: we expect to shoot a deer hou we're putting it

1457
01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:32,840
Speaker 1: in shooting distance from that stand. So if you're going

1458
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:35,760
Speaker 1: in to either do a hanging hunt or put a

1459
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:37,560
Speaker 1: trail camera out, then you might as well throw a

1460
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:41,320
Speaker 1: mock scrape out there, especially if it's before a lot

1461
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:44,200
Speaker 1: of rain, you know, true, if it's if it's moist

1462
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,679
Speaker 1: or damp out, then that's I used to warn beetles

1463
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:49,799
Speaker 1: a lot well that was that was a great scenting

1464
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:52,719
Speaker 1: condition for the dogs. It was damp, wet, snow wet ground.

1465
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:55,439
Speaker 1: But when it becomes saturated, there's a lot of rain

1466
01:11:55,479 --> 01:11:58,360
Speaker 1: that washes sent away. So there's that tipping point. So

1467
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:00,640
Speaker 1: if you see that there's really good in coming, what

1468
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:03,280
Speaker 1: a great time to go out right before that rain

1469
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:06,920
Speaker 1: and put your mock scrapes out and make them look natural.

1470
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:09,959
Speaker 1: Of course, that's why we're using longer vines, longer branches.

1471
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 1: We always recommend at least five to six feet, but

1472
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 1: when it's an open you know, seven eight feet and

1473
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 1: uh about waist high right in the center of the trail.

1474
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:19,640
Speaker 1: Just scratch up a big area. If I scratch up

1475
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:21,360
Speaker 1: a big area of the stick, I throw the stick

1476
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:23,559
Speaker 1: in the brusher. I take it out with me. If

1477
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 1: I clear any branches for that camera, I take those

1478
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:28,840
Speaker 1: out with me. Try to use the saw grab with

1479
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:32,360
Speaker 1: one hand, cut with the other. But UM definitely can

1480
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:34,240
Speaker 1: get those out now. If you're going back into your

1481
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:37,720
Speaker 1: favorite run stand in the morning and you haven't been

1482
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:40,599
Speaker 1: there all year, and you have high hopes and you're

1483
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:42,920
Speaker 1: getting into that stand, I wouldn't take the time to

1484
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:46,080
Speaker 1: go put a mock scrape in that situation. But there's

1485
01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:48,559
Speaker 1: definitely whether it's on the edge of a food source,

1486
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:51,400
Speaker 1: or you have rain coming, or it's in an area

1487
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:53,479
Speaker 1: that's well away from betting your feet and you can

1488
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:56,439
Speaker 1: get into on the side of that movement. Add that

1489
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:58,479
Speaker 1: make an addition real quick, not leave a lot of

1490
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:02,760
Speaker 1: scent behind. UM. I would say that in most locations,

1491
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:06,360
Speaker 1: you'd say about those areas you could you could add

1492
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:09,080
Speaker 1: a mock straight right now and get us out of that.

1493
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 1: If you're careful. That raises another question when you bring

1494
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:28,599
Speaker 1: up this idea of you know, going into a spot

1495
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:30,920
Speaker 1: to hang a camera, and in my mind, I'm thinking

1496
01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:34,320
Speaker 1: about the impact you're making to hang that camera. And

1497
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:37,400
Speaker 1: one of the you know, one of the things you

1498
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:39,919
Speaker 1: talk a lot about is in a trail camera strategy,

1499
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:41,920
Speaker 1: you know, not letting those cameras hurt you by going

1500
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:44,640
Speaker 1: in to change batteries or SD cards or whatever too

1501
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:46,800
Speaker 1: often or at the wrong times. And that's why you

1502
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 1: put these at your hunt locations and only check them

1503
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:52,599
Speaker 1: when you're gonna hunt. But you mentioned this earlier. Cell

1504
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:57,479
Speaker 1: cameras have changed the game. How do you utilize cell

1505
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:02,599
Speaker 1: cameras two pattern deer differently than with traditional cameras, if

1506
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:05,080
Speaker 1: at all? Do you play them in different kinds of places?

1507
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:08,599
Speaker 1: Do you value that data differently? Is there anything different

1508
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:16,639
Speaker 1: with your cell cam tactics versus traditional Um, I'd say, boy, there,

1509
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:18,599
Speaker 1: I think with the cell cameras the only way it'd

1510
01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:20,839
Speaker 1: be a little bit different as I have a tendency

1511
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:24,400
Speaker 1: to place still cell cameras in locations where I can't

1512
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:28,040
Speaker 1: where I'm I'm not going to walk by, I'm only

1513
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:30,920
Speaker 1: going to go in there and hunt that location. It's

1514
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:34,640
Speaker 1: a pretty remote. We have one cell camera here in

1515
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:37,479
Speaker 1: Minnesota that's in a spot where we just can't hunt,

1516
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:40,800
Speaker 1: and so we pack it with fresh batteries before the

1517
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:43,920
Speaker 1: season begins and let it ride and it's on a

1518
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:47,479
Speaker 1: natural vine scrape that's hanging down and uh so I

1519
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 1: just I have that there just because it's good for inventory.

1520
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:52,720
Speaker 1: It's a cool spot. In fact, Mark you were there

1521
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:54,639
Speaker 1: because I threw a track on the side by side

1522
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:59,360
Speaker 1: right down there. It was down there, that exact location.

1523
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:02,240
Speaker 1: I we threw a track. I threw a track, Mark

1524
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:06,519
Speaker 1: and Dylan just just watched me, uh being idiot. But anyways,

1525
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:11,760
Speaker 1: but it was we had fun. But uh but regardless

1526
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:14,880
Speaker 1: of it was, Um, that's the one spot down there.

1527
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:18,360
Speaker 1: But for the most part, I'm putting my cell cameras

1528
01:15:18,360 --> 01:15:20,640
Speaker 1: in a little bit more invasive areas where it be

1529
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:25,560
Speaker 1: harder for me to change batteries and cards. But overall, um,

1530
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 1: it might be that you know, you have six cameras

1531
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:31,400
Speaker 1: three or cell camera three or not, you have nine

1532
01:15:31,439 --> 01:15:34,679
Speaker 1: cameras three or cell cameras six or not or four

1533
01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:37,040
Speaker 1: or five, whatever it is, I put every other one then,

1534
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:39,639
Speaker 1: so I'm using them purely for inventory. I just want

1535
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:43,160
Speaker 1: to know more immediate. Obviously, you can make hunting decisions

1536
01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:46,240
Speaker 1: more immediately. UM like that, So are a little bit

1537
01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:50,320
Speaker 1: different than a regular cam. UM. But the regular cam

1538
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:52,720
Speaker 1: two is we get to see that buck behavior. We

1539
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:55,599
Speaker 1: get to see a little bit clearer picture of exactly

1540
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:57,880
Speaker 1: where they're coming from and going to. We get to

1541
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 1: see that behavior around the mock scrape it else if

1542
01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:02,760
Speaker 1: they're being really aggressive or not, I can tell you

1543
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:06,360
Speaker 1: about the personality of a book a little bit differently. UM.

1544
01:16:06,400 --> 01:16:08,479
Speaker 1: You might have one that comes in super aggressive. Can

1545
01:16:08,479 --> 01:16:10,439
Speaker 1: you imagine going out and sitting that evening and using

1546
01:16:10,439 --> 01:16:12,920
Speaker 1: a grun call or something. He might come right into

1547
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:15,360
Speaker 1: it because he's aggressive. Or you may have one that

1548
01:16:15,400 --> 01:16:18,439
Speaker 1: seems super shy and comes in and just barely touches it,

1549
01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:20,920
Speaker 1: kind of as you can tell he's timid. You can

1550
01:16:20,920 --> 01:16:25,840
Speaker 1: see those things with video on our regular trail cameras, UM,

1551
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:28,639
Speaker 1: where we get a fifteen second, ten second or twenty

1552
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:30,880
Speaker 1: second clip, or a cell camera, you can't see some

1553
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:34,240
Speaker 1: of those behaviors. So that's why I still like both. Um.

1554
01:16:34,280 --> 01:16:37,600
Speaker 1: They're both both fun, and I think the differences. You know,

1555
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:39,320
Speaker 1: a cell camera might use it a little bit more

1556
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:42,640
Speaker 1: of an invasive spot. Yeah, so here's a scenario that

1557
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:45,720
Speaker 1: I think has popped up more often now. Well, absolutely,

1558
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:47,960
Speaker 1: it's popping up more often now that people have cell cameras.

1559
01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:50,680
Speaker 1: There's you know, let's say we're in the season and

1560
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:53,640
Speaker 1: we have this plan. Um, we have a pattern that

1561
01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:55,360
Speaker 1: we've been kind of working on based on all these

1562
01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:57,040
Speaker 1: things that you and I have been talking about. Maybe

1563
01:16:57,040 --> 01:16:59,960
Speaker 1: there's a window when we know he traditionally starts to daylight,

1564
01:17:00,520 --> 01:17:02,760
Speaker 1: and we've got some stuff set up to hunt there,

1565
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:04,600
Speaker 1: and so we're kind of waiting for that window to

1566
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:07,840
Speaker 1: show up, or or the right conditions to appear, whatever

1567
01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:10,280
Speaker 1: might be. But what happens if he daylights all of

1568
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:12,000
Speaker 1: a sudden you get a daylight photo of him and

1569
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 1: you weren't expecting it. Some would you How do you

1570
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:20,280
Speaker 1: value a single daylight photo? Do you say, oh, he

1571
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:23,120
Speaker 1: daylight last night, so immediately the next day you gotta

1572
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:24,880
Speaker 1: go in there and try to hunt him the next morning,

1573
01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:29,040
Speaker 1: the next evening. Or if not that, what how do

1574
01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:31,400
Speaker 1: you use that or what do you need to see

1575
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:36,200
Speaker 1: an addition to the simple daylight activity to move Yeah.

1576
01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:40,080
Speaker 1: I really like that strategy because again it goes back

1577
01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:44,559
Speaker 1: to the y question. Um. For example, sometimes we'll get

1578
01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:47,800
Speaker 1: a daylight picture of a buck and he's hurrying through

1579
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:52,040
Speaker 1: and it's on Saturday at nine o'clock and we're next

1580
01:17:52,120 --> 01:17:54,800
Speaker 1: to public land or next to our property. There it

1581
01:17:54,880 --> 01:17:57,639
Speaker 1: might be someone honey invasively. And I'm not saying he's

1582
01:17:57,640 --> 01:18:00,320
Speaker 1: not coming back, but why is it they are at

1583
01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:02,400
Speaker 1: that time? Or maybe this is a traditional time. You're

1584
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:05,400
Speaker 1: waiting every day from the move in, and then when

1585
01:18:05,400 --> 01:18:07,960
Speaker 1: he moves in and you get that daylight picture. Well,

1586
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 1: if it's daylight, let's say he's going to a spot

1587
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:16,960
Speaker 1: and it's um six forty in the morning, it gets

1588
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:19,760
Speaker 1: shooting light at five to seven, so fifteen minutes later

1589
01:18:20,120 --> 01:18:21,960
Speaker 1: may mean he didn't have enough time to cross a

1590
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:25,479
Speaker 1: big field or open hardwoods to get back home. So

1591
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:29,320
Speaker 1: then you ask what betting areas in? And isn't it

1592
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:31,559
Speaker 1: you know I have a stand here, I have stand there.

1593
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:33,120
Speaker 1: It's again, it's kind of like you went into this

1594
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:36,200
Speaker 1: betting area you're about because you don't think he could

1595
01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:39,000
Speaker 1: go anywhere else in that time frame. He's probably pretty

1596
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:42,519
Speaker 1: close because he's going to bed soon and uh, and

1597
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:43,960
Speaker 1: then you're going in and saying, well, I have this

1598
01:18:44,040 --> 01:18:45,920
Speaker 1: camera for the or this stand for this win? Did

1599
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:48,360
Speaker 1: this stand for this win? You're making that game time

1600
01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:52,559
Speaker 1: decision no different than UM. You know, he comes out

1601
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:55,920
Speaker 1: of a certain area in the evening, it's daylight, and

1602
01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:58,479
Speaker 1: you think, dang it, that buck was in that betting are.

1603
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:01,160
Speaker 1: He had to be because he and move where where

1604
01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:03,200
Speaker 1: he came out of. There's no way he could have

1605
01:19:03,240 --> 01:19:05,920
Speaker 1: moved that far to get to that location from any

1606
01:19:05,920 --> 01:19:08,479
Speaker 1: other direction. He had to be betting there. Well, then

1607
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:10,320
Speaker 1: as he dived in bed there the next morning, there's

1608
01:19:10,360 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 1: a good chance it's not, but it's you know, maybe

1609
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:18,479
Speaker 1: chance for twenty it's good chance whatever it is. So

1610
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:20,680
Speaker 1: then if you have a stand that you can take appropriate,

1611
01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:24,200
Speaker 1: you know. And that goes back to I don't it

1612
01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:26,280
Speaker 1: doesn't matter to me what way the winds blowing, other

1613
01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:28,040
Speaker 1: than I have a stand for this wind. It's on

1614
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:29,560
Speaker 1: the edge of that betting here, I'm gonna go on it,

1615
01:19:30,200 --> 01:19:32,679
Speaker 1: you know, and make that decision. That and so that's

1616
01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:35,760
Speaker 1: how I use that, UM like a cell camera to

1617
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:42,000
Speaker 1: that effect. UM that that But you know, I'm trying

1618
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:47,639
Speaker 1: to think of, trying to think of I've had stands

1619
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:51,599
Speaker 1: where or sits or locations I've funted specifically for that.

1620
01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:54,680
Speaker 1: It always it always seems like when I go in

1621
01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:56,680
Speaker 1: there that time, that I don't shoot him, I end

1622
01:19:56,720 --> 01:19:58,320
Speaker 1: up shooting the next day or the next day on

1623
01:19:58,400 --> 01:20:01,400
Speaker 1: a different stand nearby, a on a funnel, just kind

1624
01:20:01,400 --> 01:20:04,680
Speaker 1: of looking at it like well, I'll hunt here and

1625
01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:07,479
Speaker 1: then i'll hunt over there with the wind, and and

1626
01:20:07,479 --> 01:20:08,840
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden you shoot him. And it

1627
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:10,600
Speaker 1: was on a on a spot. You didn't even have

1628
01:20:10,600 --> 01:20:12,040
Speaker 1: a picture of him. You just knew he was home,

1629
01:20:12,520 --> 01:20:15,240
Speaker 1: or he knew he's back on your your property. You

1630
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:17,919
Speaker 1: said kind of along these lines. You said something earlier

1631
01:20:18,080 --> 01:20:20,320
Speaker 1: about how you know when you know a bus in

1632
01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:23,200
Speaker 1: the area, either with the cell camera picture that tells

1633
01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:26,160
Speaker 1: you he's here, or a historical trend that tells you what,

1634
01:20:26,280 --> 01:20:28,760
Speaker 1: I know he's in this zone during a five day

1635
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:31,599
Speaker 1: window or something. You've you've said this twice, I think

1636
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:33,640
Speaker 1: where you say you'll take two or three stabs at

1637
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:36,639
Speaker 1: him and kind of like you know, poke around, take

1638
01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:40,400
Speaker 1: two or three stabbs, poke around. Do you typically do

1639
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:42,640
Speaker 1: like a cluster of sits like that? Is that a

1640
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:44,960
Speaker 1: thing like you're doing on purpose and you're not doing

1641
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 1: an isolated hunt? If you if you think he's in

1642
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:50,040
Speaker 1: the area right now, you're gonna actually say, well, I'm

1643
01:20:50,040 --> 01:20:52,559
Speaker 1: gonna hunt him three days or two days, so you

1644
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:56,320
Speaker 1: you you poke around several options so that eventually one

1645
01:20:56,360 --> 01:21:00,760
Speaker 1: of those three times you intercept him. Is that Is that?

1646
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:04,400
Speaker 1: Am I reading that right? Is that on purpose? Or yes? Yeah,

1647
01:21:04,479 --> 01:21:08,960
Speaker 1: there's not necessarily on purpose, just more opportunity. Where typically

1648
01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:11,479
Speaker 1: I'm clustering stands. So if it's good enough for one stand,

1649
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:13,280
Speaker 1: it's good enough for two or three in this area

1650
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:15,599
Speaker 1: this five or ten acres, and so I can come

1651
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:19,360
Speaker 1: into this stand from this angle, and then I can

1652
01:21:19,400 --> 01:21:21,880
Speaker 1: come into the east two from another angle. Out of

1653
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:24,240
Speaker 1: those two ones of morning stand, one's an evening stand.

1654
01:21:24,280 --> 01:21:28,040
Speaker 1: For these reasons, um or or the winds, for example,

1655
01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:31,559
Speaker 1: especially around here with the thermals, I can use this

1656
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:35,839
Speaker 1: with a um let's say a south wind, and then

1657
01:21:36,240 --> 01:21:38,280
Speaker 1: because I'm on the side of this ridge, it'll trend

1658
01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:40,400
Speaker 1: downwards at night, so I can use that. But if

1659
01:21:40,439 --> 01:21:42,920
Speaker 1: I use that that stand in the morning with the

1660
01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:45,040
Speaker 1: south wind, it's gonna stay up top on the ridge

1661
01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:46,920
Speaker 1: where the deer are and all. If that makes sense.

1662
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:50,000
Speaker 1: But we'll we'll have stands like that that. Yeah, this

1663
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:53,360
Speaker 1: one's better towards morning. This one's better than evening towards evening,

1664
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:55,600
Speaker 1: and so I might have two or three stands in

1665
01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:58,320
Speaker 1: that spot. And so then I'll look at Yeah, I'm

1666
01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:02,719
Speaker 1: I'm getting northwest wind, cold front winds. They're turning westerly

1667
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:05,160
Speaker 1: to southwest, and then it's going back to a stable

1668
01:22:05,200 --> 01:22:07,840
Speaker 1: wind for three days of the south southeast. And so

1669
01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:10,560
Speaker 1: they're right there. I know this bucks in the area,

1670
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:12,919
Speaker 1: and I can go in and hunt them on northwest

1671
01:22:12,960 --> 01:22:15,160
Speaker 1: wind here in the morning, hunting on a southeast wind here,

1672
01:22:15,160 --> 01:22:17,639
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna southwest morning stand coming in from this one.

1673
01:22:18,120 --> 01:22:19,960
Speaker 1: And so you're kind of chipping away at them, and

1674
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:23,960
Speaker 1: each one to me because you might find the you know,

1675
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:26,679
Speaker 1: if let's say you have cameras and you pulled cards later,

1676
01:22:27,120 --> 01:22:28,920
Speaker 1: he walked by two out of three of those stands.

1677
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:31,920
Speaker 1: Almost every day you're in daylight, it's just a matter off.

1678
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:34,240
Speaker 1: You're making the smart decision of which I wanted to

1679
01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:37,479
Speaker 1: hunt by wind, not wrapping yourself up too much that

1680
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:39,599
Speaker 1: I gotta hunt this standard that stand, just looking at

1681
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:44,320
Speaker 1: more methodically that you're you're hunting those clusters stands by opportunity.

1682
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:47,360
Speaker 1: You can get in and out pretty low impact. You're

1683
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:49,799
Speaker 1: not putting one stand in the center of that spot

1684
01:22:50,240 --> 01:22:53,439
Speaker 1: and going all in for broke, because then you have

1685
01:22:53,479 --> 01:22:55,560
Speaker 1: a lot of you have more probably more chance you

1686
01:22:55,600 --> 01:22:57,800
Speaker 1: spook them than not. And now you're now you're done

1687
01:22:57,800 --> 01:23:00,639
Speaker 1: for that buck. So I'd rather lightly take a jobs here,

1688
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:04,320
Speaker 1: take a job there, and uh, overall your your your

1689
01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:06,600
Speaker 1: odds are really good. Um, you know you're taking a

1690
01:23:07,320 --> 01:23:10,599
Speaker 1: job every time job instead of going off for broke

1691
01:23:10,640 --> 01:23:14,360
Speaker 1: at losing them. If if the wind is the same,

1692
01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:16,760
Speaker 1: let's say over a three day period and you've you've

1693
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:20,160
Speaker 1: determined you want to start taking some shots, you you

1694
01:23:20,240 --> 01:23:22,479
Speaker 1: just describe a situation there where you bounce from this

1695
01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:25,360
Speaker 1: stand to one little over to one that's a little over.

1696
01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:28,719
Speaker 1: Is there ever scenario where you'll have that same wind

1697
01:23:28,840 --> 01:23:31,600
Speaker 1: and you've got three days with decent conditions, you know

1698
01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:34,519
Speaker 1: he's in the zone. Where is there a scenario where

1699
01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:36,880
Speaker 1: you say, actually, just staying in the one spot and

1700
01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:39,640
Speaker 1: hunting all three days in that same spot is the

1701
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:42,639
Speaker 1: right approach because you know that he might not show today,

1702
01:23:42,720 --> 01:23:45,839
Speaker 1: but I know within the next three days he's eventually

1703
01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:47,839
Speaker 1: going to come through here because I have this pattern.

1704
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:52,839
Speaker 1: Is that ever I think it depends on the stand location.

1705
01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:57,439
Speaker 1: So some stands are more invasive than others. Um where

1706
01:23:57,439 --> 01:24:00,000
Speaker 1: you know, getting down here, it's a little risky getting

1707
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:04,840
Speaker 1: in or out, and so in that case you might

1708
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:08,640
Speaker 1: you might take a different approach where, yeah, you have

1709
01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:12,080
Speaker 1: this cluster stands here, you go in there and hunt it.

1710
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:14,240
Speaker 1: But it was pretty invasive. Maybe even spooked the dough

1711
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:16,599
Speaker 1: or fallen or something else. You know something that ran

1712
01:24:17,400 --> 01:24:19,320
Speaker 1: um a couple of dolls that come in a young buck.

1713
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:22,320
Speaker 1: Do you think, man, I might have buggered this area up.

1714
01:24:22,360 --> 01:24:25,280
Speaker 1: So instead of just going back and sitting in there,

1715
01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:28,640
Speaker 1: I'd rather go on a an adjacent stand that might

1716
01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:31,080
Speaker 1: be two hundred yards away. Three hundred yards. Well, if

1717
01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:34,400
Speaker 1: I spooked him here maybe and it was light, meaning

1718
01:24:34,439 --> 01:24:37,280
Speaker 1: like I didn't spook camp, I spooked another deer, kind

1719
01:24:37,280 --> 01:24:39,360
Speaker 1: of buggered up that area, Maybe I'll go two hundred

1720
01:24:39,400 --> 01:24:42,320
Speaker 1: yards over there to that betting area, the back side

1721
01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:43,880
Speaker 1: of that betting area, because I can hunt with that

1722
01:24:43,960 --> 01:24:47,400
Speaker 1: same wind, different approach, and he'll be none the wiser.

1723
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:51,080
Speaker 1: So if I spooked him in this location, he'll probably

1724
01:24:51,120 --> 01:24:53,320
Speaker 1: be over there. I had a spot I went in

1725
01:24:53,360 --> 01:24:55,800
Speaker 1: this year, and I've hunted to stand five times. It's

1726
01:24:55,800 --> 01:24:58,160
Speaker 1: actually a blind down the bottom where we get away

1727
01:24:58,160 --> 01:25:00,880
Speaker 1: with Once we're there, we get away of northerly winds.

1728
01:25:01,000 --> 01:25:03,960
Speaker 1: It's pretty cool spot. Usually go down there and I

1729
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:06,559
Speaker 1: haven't spooked any deer, and so I went down there

1730
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:09,280
Speaker 1: this time, and sure enough there's a doop high spooked him.

1731
01:25:09,320 --> 01:25:12,040
Speaker 1: There was um, a really nice the tur buck down

1732
01:25:12,040 --> 01:25:15,400
Speaker 1: in the draw to my right, about sixty yards away.

1733
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:17,240
Speaker 1: I spooked to me, went right up the other side,

1734
01:25:17,840 --> 01:25:20,000
Speaker 1: watched them. I think I know what buck it was.

1735
01:25:20,120 --> 01:25:22,439
Speaker 1: And then I got down to the blind and there's

1736
01:25:22,479 --> 01:25:25,759
Speaker 1: a deer blowing at me on the other side. Well,

1737
01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:30,120
Speaker 1: the very next night, that main buck I was after,

1738
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:32,479
Speaker 1: and this is that was a bad one. That was

1739
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:36,040
Speaker 1: really bad for for six for me. I don't normally

1740
01:25:36,080 --> 01:25:38,160
Speaker 1: spook a lot like that, so it was really bothered me.

1741
01:25:38,200 --> 01:25:39,880
Speaker 1: I just looked at like, I'm just gonna relax here

1742
01:25:39,880 --> 01:25:41,920
Speaker 1: in the blind and have a nice night. And I

1743
01:25:41,960 --> 01:25:45,040
Speaker 1: didn't see any deer and um, but the very next night,

1744
01:25:46,040 --> 01:25:48,960
Speaker 1: UM on a spot about two hundred fifty yards away,

1745
01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:51,880
Speaker 1: on a water hole that box names bowl. He showed

1746
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:53,960
Speaker 1: up on that water hole, which happened to be I

1747
01:25:54,040 --> 01:25:57,640
Speaker 1: think the fifteenth of her sixteenth of October, So it

1748
01:25:57,680 --> 01:26:00,000
Speaker 1: wasn't that long ago sixteenth. He was on the sixteenth

1749
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:02,320
Speaker 1: there where I buggered him up on the fifteen and

1750
01:26:02,360 --> 01:26:05,160
Speaker 1: so baby buggered him up, but it kind of and

1751
01:26:05,200 --> 01:26:06,920
Speaker 1: then that was the last time we saw him there, Dylan,

1752
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:08,479
Speaker 1: I said, there last night, we didn't see him. We

1753
01:26:08,479 --> 01:26:10,320
Speaker 1: haven't had any other trill Camp pictures of him there.

1754
01:26:10,360 --> 01:26:13,439
Speaker 1: We haven't seen him around any any other location. So

1755
01:26:13,479 --> 01:26:15,800
Speaker 1: it makes you wonder that bump him there. And and

1756
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:19,439
Speaker 1: then I've had opportunities like that where you know, if

1757
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:21,200
Speaker 1: I would have been thinking and it was the right wind,

1758
01:26:21,240 --> 01:26:23,599
Speaker 1: maybe I could have gone over and hunted that adjacent standing.

1759
01:26:23,640 --> 01:26:25,720
Speaker 1: That would have been a good play. So you're not

1760
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:28,360
Speaker 1: forcing it in the same spot, especially being spook, But

1761
01:26:28,360 --> 01:26:30,080
Speaker 1: then you have those other stands red going, you know,

1762
01:26:30,120 --> 01:26:33,040
Speaker 1: spook anything you feel really good about your act, and

1763
01:26:33,080 --> 01:26:34,720
Speaker 1: that's what he kind of goes back. You get back.

1764
01:26:34,760 --> 01:26:37,880
Speaker 1: If you're hunting with some somebody's you get back, and

1765
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:39,760
Speaker 1: you know, it's cool to talk about what you saw,

1766
01:26:39,880 --> 01:26:41,960
Speaker 1: But what did you spook? You know, that's a really

1767
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:44,559
Speaker 1: good question, is what did you spook? Where did they go?

1768
01:26:44,640 --> 01:26:48,040
Speaker 1: Where'd they run? And Uh, And that's often it is

1769
01:26:48,120 --> 01:26:50,800
Speaker 1: just as important as as what what you saw in

1770
01:26:50,800 --> 01:26:53,000
Speaker 1: an area. But if you get in and out really

1771
01:26:53,040 --> 01:26:55,439
Speaker 1: clean and you feel good about it, I definitely humped

1772
01:26:55,439 --> 01:26:56,760
Speaker 1: that stand three days in a row if it's the

1773
01:26:56,760 --> 01:26:59,400
Speaker 1: same wind. So it really really depends on the stand,

1774
01:26:59,479 --> 01:27:03,400
Speaker 1: location of sets, what happened on the set. Uh. This

1775
01:27:03,439 --> 01:27:06,880
Speaker 1: whole idea of what did you spook? Brings to mind

1776
01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:10,439
Speaker 1: another kind of situation I'm often and where I'm thinking about,

1777
01:27:10,960 --> 01:27:14,480
Speaker 1: you know, usually not always, but usually you have to

1778
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:17,400
Speaker 1: give up something, you have to sacrifice something like every

1779
01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:19,920
Speaker 1: time you take a hunt, you're always there's always the

1780
01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:22,800
Speaker 1: risk of educating deer. There's always the risk of your win,

1781
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:27,160
Speaker 1: your winds gonna blow somewhere, right, there's always something. Um,

1782
01:27:27,240 --> 01:27:30,640
Speaker 1: what is the scenario when you are building out a

1783
01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:33,200
Speaker 1: pattern and figuring out where you want to take a

1784
01:27:33,240 --> 01:27:34,600
Speaker 1: stab at and when you want to take it a

1785
01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:38,679
Speaker 1: stab at a deer? What's the scenario the data point

1786
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:42,799
Speaker 1: or set of data points that you would be willing

1787
01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:45,640
Speaker 1: to like swing for the fences knowing that you're going

1788
01:27:45,680 --> 01:27:47,519
Speaker 1: to have a high impact, Like it's a spot that

1789
01:27:48,439 --> 01:27:50,680
Speaker 1: it's gonna some deer will know you're there. You have

1790
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:52,920
Speaker 1: to push into the interior. You have to go into

1791
01:27:52,920 --> 01:27:55,400
Speaker 1: a spot that's tough and in some reason or way,

1792
01:27:55,960 --> 01:27:58,320
Speaker 1: what do you need to see to make you confident

1793
01:27:58,360 --> 01:28:01,000
Speaker 1: in that. What are the pieces of data or circumstances

1794
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:06,479
Speaker 1: where you're willing to do that. It's more timing, So

1795
01:28:06,640 --> 01:28:12,160
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do that, UM for a general set or strategy,

1796
01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:15,960
Speaker 1: meaning that I think a box in there, summon to go.

1797
01:28:16,040 --> 01:28:17,719
Speaker 1: Do you know I'm gonna go sit in a standard

1798
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:20,760
Speaker 1: I know that's there or whatever and take a chance. Um.

1799
01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:23,320
Speaker 1: I would look at like, um, it's I have nine

1800
01:28:23,400 --> 01:28:26,720
Speaker 1: days of rutcation since the last two or three days. Um,

1801
01:28:26,760 --> 01:28:28,960
Speaker 1: I know the spot is in this betting room in

1802
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:31,200
Speaker 1: our bedroom. I can go do a hanging hunt. It's

1803
01:28:31,240 --> 01:28:34,000
Speaker 1: going to be a little bit invasive or risky, um,

1804
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:36,120
Speaker 1: and I'll go kind of off for broken go in.

1805
01:28:37,160 --> 01:28:40,240
Speaker 1: So it'd be more of a timing where, um, I'm

1806
01:28:40,280 --> 01:28:46,040
Speaker 1: there for it's October and I'm not coming back until

1807
01:28:46,080 --> 01:28:49,720
Speaker 1: the sixth of November. I can afford to be a

1808
01:28:49,760 --> 01:28:52,960
Speaker 1: little risky because I have three weeks of forgiveness for

1809
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:55,240
Speaker 1: the local deer heard. Um, So I'm looking at it

1810
01:28:55,320 --> 01:28:58,080
Speaker 1: more like that, not that this is an actual option

1811
01:28:58,080 --> 01:29:01,160
Speaker 1: on the table. For me, it's I don't want to

1812
01:29:01,160 --> 01:29:02,840
Speaker 1: be risky like that. I want to live to hunt

1813
01:29:02,840 --> 01:29:04,760
Speaker 1: another day. Kind of going back to the private land thing,

1814
01:29:05,360 --> 01:29:07,559
Speaker 1: where on private land it doesn't matter if you have

1815
01:29:07,560 --> 01:29:11,040
Speaker 1: five hundred acres two acres a D forty five. If

1816
01:29:11,080 --> 01:29:14,360
Speaker 1: you make mistakes, you can really mess up that property.

1817
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:16,880
Speaker 1: Where public land I can just go somewhere else. So

1818
01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:20,280
Speaker 1: public lands a different story. There were I'm gonna I'm

1819
01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:24,000
Speaker 1: gonna be more invasive when I know my time is

1820
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:28,280
Speaker 1: limited and running out um on a on a private land.

1821
01:29:28,320 --> 01:29:31,439
Speaker 1: Personal public land, on the other hand, that's a little

1822
01:29:31,479 --> 01:29:33,800
Speaker 1: bit different because if you're scouting public land a lot

1823
01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:36,000
Speaker 1: and you know you know several good spots, and you

1824
01:29:36,040 --> 01:29:38,360
Speaker 1: know you might have several good bucks that you're familiar with,

1825
01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:41,679
Speaker 1: or or maybe good spots that have a good box.

1826
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:43,360
Speaker 1: Maybe you don't even know what bucks are in there.

1827
01:29:43,920 --> 01:29:45,960
Speaker 1: Then I can go in the morning and you're looking

1828
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:49,360
Speaker 1: at like man in those public land hunts, you might

1829
01:29:49,400 --> 01:29:51,120
Speaker 1: have be able to afford to let a spot just

1830
01:29:51,280 --> 01:29:53,640
Speaker 1: mature all season, and you go in there at the

1831
01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:55,559
Speaker 1: perfect time in early November. You might want to hit

1832
01:29:55,600 --> 01:29:58,200
Speaker 1: that hard in early October, you might want to hit

1833
01:29:58,240 --> 01:30:00,200
Speaker 1: it again. You might have more pressure, so do are

1834
01:30:00,240 --> 01:30:02,880
Speaker 1: being moved around a little bit more, and so public

1835
01:30:02,920 --> 01:30:04,840
Speaker 1: plan is different. I would be a little bit more aggressive.

1836
01:30:05,160 --> 01:30:07,000
Speaker 1: And then and then you know, of course you have

1837
01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:10,679
Speaker 1: some of the areas where you might have a small

1838
01:30:10,720 --> 01:30:13,400
Speaker 1: parcels surrounded by agg and some of the big buck

1839
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:17,600
Speaker 1: rich areas Kansas, Kentucky, I will western Illinois and you

1840
01:30:17,720 --> 01:30:21,240
Speaker 1: look at like, I know this area always holds mature box.

1841
01:30:21,800 --> 01:30:24,240
Speaker 1: You go in there and you spoke a buck out, Well,

1842
01:30:24,240 --> 01:30:26,200
Speaker 1: another one just takes this place in the next two

1843
01:30:26,280 --> 01:30:28,439
Speaker 1: or four days. I don't have those areas to hunt,

1844
01:30:28,479 --> 01:30:30,800
Speaker 1: but there are areas like that. Then you can be

1845
01:30:30,800 --> 01:30:33,519
Speaker 1: aggressive too. You can go in there and so so

1846
01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:36,719
Speaker 1: again kind of back to the y when. Um, there's

1847
01:30:36,720 --> 01:30:40,160
Speaker 1: a lot of different conditions. But and for me personally

1848
01:30:40,280 --> 01:30:43,680
Speaker 1: my general hunting, I don't push I don't push it

1849
01:30:43,760 --> 01:30:48,320
Speaker 1: or take chances, because, um, they'll have a devastating effect

1850
01:30:48,360 --> 01:30:51,479
Speaker 1: on the property so much so that even when we

1851
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:54,320
Speaker 1: go get deer, we go get them after dark, if

1852
01:30:54,320 --> 01:30:56,760
Speaker 1: if it's cold enough, and I shoot a buck and

1853
01:30:56,800 --> 01:30:58,960
Speaker 1: I had them on the ground during gun season, Um,

1854
01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:02,960
Speaker 1: even both season and you went into a certain betting area. Um,

1855
01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:05,800
Speaker 1: and it's nine o'clock in the morning. If I can

1856
01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:08,599
Speaker 1: sneak out, I will, If not, I'll stay there until dark.

1857
01:31:08,640 --> 01:31:11,800
Speaker 1: We'll go in there with leave the machine running voices low.

1858
01:31:12,280 --> 01:31:13,840
Speaker 1: You're just trying to do anything you can on that

1859
01:31:13,880 --> 01:31:17,280
Speaker 1: privately and not to spook here and and so lope,

1860
01:31:17,320 --> 01:31:19,000
Speaker 1: that makes sense, you know. I think there's a case

1861
01:31:19,040 --> 01:31:22,719
Speaker 1: to be aggressive, but not as a general strategy unless

1862
01:31:22,720 --> 01:31:25,160
Speaker 1: you're on public land. But it's completely different. But then

1863
01:31:25,200 --> 01:31:27,160
Speaker 1: you might ask some of those areas that you know

1864
01:31:27,200 --> 01:31:29,360
Speaker 1: it's your back back to our public land or this

1865
01:31:29,400 --> 01:31:31,559
Speaker 1: is where you go hunt public land in Michigan, Well

1866
01:31:31,560 --> 01:31:33,160
Speaker 1: you might want to look at it like, you know,

1867
01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:35,080
Speaker 1: you're going in a wage you're not seeing a lot

1868
01:31:35,080 --> 01:31:37,240
Speaker 1: of other hunters that you can almost look at it

1869
01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:39,120
Speaker 1: like you're managing that area as if it was a

1870
01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:42,360
Speaker 1: big private land chunk. Yeah, yeah, that that does make

1871
01:31:42,439 --> 01:31:47,080
Speaker 1: sense for sure. I want to I want to start

1872
01:31:47,240 --> 01:31:48,680
Speaker 1: tying the ball in this and wrapping it up so

1873
01:31:48,800 --> 01:31:51,680
Speaker 1: you can get out and get your packing ready for

1874
01:31:51,760 --> 01:31:53,960
Speaker 1: your big trip. Um. So just a couple of quick

1875
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:57,280
Speaker 1: last questions. One thing that's that's more of a general

1876
01:31:57,320 --> 01:32:01,040
Speaker 1: question but I have forgotten to ask you about it.

1877
01:32:01,680 --> 01:32:04,759
Speaker 1: You know, we've talked through the sign that you're seeing.

1878
01:32:04,760 --> 01:32:07,439
Speaker 1: We've talked through the historical trends that you're observing and

1879
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:10,679
Speaker 1: keeping tabs of. We've talked through how you're getting pictures

1880
01:32:10,680 --> 01:32:13,200
Speaker 1: of these deer and how that helps you pattern them.

1881
01:32:13,360 --> 01:32:15,439
Speaker 1: But what we haven't touched on is is how do

1882
01:32:15,479 --> 01:32:20,240
Speaker 1: you actually actually keep track of all this data and

1883
01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:22,760
Speaker 1: organize it? Do you do you write any of this

1884
01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:25,360
Speaker 1: stuff down in the journal? Do you have a spreadsheet

1885
01:32:25,479 --> 01:32:28,680
Speaker 1: or anything where you track deer sightings and observations or

1886
01:32:28,760 --> 01:32:31,519
Speaker 1: daylight photos or anything. Do you have a way you

1887
01:32:31,720 --> 01:32:34,559
Speaker 1: organize your photos on your computer? Is there anything like

1888
01:32:34,600 --> 01:32:37,599
Speaker 1: that that helps you keep track and analyze all this stuff?

1889
01:32:39,479 --> 01:32:44,400
Speaker 1: Mark this is gonna be, um, not helpful to your listeners.

1890
01:32:44,479 --> 01:32:49,439
Speaker 1: And I'll and I'll say this, um uh, my memory

1891
01:32:49,640 --> 01:32:54,200
Speaker 1: is really good. Um where I remember certain box, certain

1892
01:32:54,200 --> 01:32:57,599
Speaker 1: times of the year, leaves or no leaves, early season,

1893
01:32:57,680 --> 01:33:02,040
Speaker 1: late season, morning evening there in the day. Those those

1894
01:33:02,080 --> 01:33:04,439
Speaker 1: things really stick out, stick out the sign that goes

1895
01:33:04,439 --> 01:33:05,920
Speaker 1: with it. I see it like a big puzzle in

1896
01:33:05,960 --> 01:33:07,760
Speaker 1: my head. And it's kind of like when I go

1897
01:33:07,800 --> 01:33:09,880
Speaker 1: to a client property there's client party. I could just

1898
01:33:09,960 --> 01:33:12,880
Speaker 1: about redraw my first property. I went to drew it

1899
01:33:12,920 --> 01:33:14,920
Speaker 1: on graph paper with a pencil and ruler back at

1900
01:33:14,920 --> 01:33:17,000
Speaker 1: oh five in the eastern side of the up. And

1901
01:33:18,160 --> 01:33:20,120
Speaker 1: there's things like that that stick in my head. I

1902
01:33:20,120 --> 01:33:22,840
Speaker 1: would read a history book in high school and get

1903
01:33:22,880 --> 01:33:24,320
Speaker 1: to the end of the page and after re read it,

1904
01:33:24,320 --> 01:33:27,080
Speaker 1: I don't even know what I just read. And Hunting

1905
01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:29,240
Speaker 1: magazine I can tell you, and I bet you this

1906
01:33:29,360 --> 01:33:31,680
Speaker 1: same way. I can tell you just about to the

1907
01:33:31,680 --> 01:33:33,719
Speaker 1: page number where a certain ad was on a Field

1908
01:33:33,720 --> 01:33:36,960
Speaker 1: and Stream magazine when I was ten, and so like

1909
01:33:37,200 --> 01:33:41,400
Speaker 1: it doesn't help because I don't keep journals. I don't um,

1910
01:33:41,439 --> 01:33:44,080
Speaker 1: you know, use any fancy software. We had some software

1911
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:46,040
Speaker 1: back in the day for keeping track of boxing where

1912
01:33:46,080 --> 01:33:49,320
Speaker 1: they were and it wasn't that it was a bad software.

1913
01:33:49,400 --> 01:33:52,439
Speaker 1: Is this that for me? Well, you know me, with

1914
01:33:52,520 --> 01:33:55,960
Speaker 1: like sponsors, partners, products, I don't use them unless I

1915
01:33:56,000 --> 01:33:58,400
Speaker 1: don't I don't partner with somebody unless I'm gonna use

1916
01:33:58,439 --> 01:34:01,800
Speaker 1: the product. And and we don't have like product days

1917
01:34:01,800 --> 01:34:03,360
Speaker 1: where we just go out and take videos of a

1918
01:34:03,360 --> 01:34:06,479
Speaker 1: bunch of sponsored stuff. We we actually use it. And

1919
01:34:06,520 --> 01:34:08,479
Speaker 1: so if I'm not going to use it like that

1920
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:12,880
Speaker 1: data collection for Carol Camera. Then it wasn't a good

1921
01:34:12,880 --> 01:34:15,120
Speaker 1: partner to have. And so it doesn't matter how much

1922
01:34:15,120 --> 01:34:17,240
Speaker 1: money they give me, I'm not gonna do it. Um.

1923
01:34:17,320 --> 01:34:24,320
Speaker 1: So that was kind of it's it is bad for me. Um.

1924
01:34:24,360 --> 01:34:27,080
Speaker 1: If I had to organize it in my head, it

1925
01:34:27,120 --> 01:34:31,479
Speaker 1: would be certain colors or letters for certain bocks, and

1926
01:34:31,600 --> 01:34:34,920
Speaker 1: where I've had pictures of them in the past, I'd

1927
01:34:34,960 --> 01:34:38,000
Speaker 1: probably change the color is something I thought about in

1928
01:34:38,040 --> 01:34:39,800
Speaker 1: the past to be cool to do. But I'd probably

1929
01:34:39,880 --> 01:34:42,360
Speaker 1: changed the color to the frequency. So it was red,

1930
01:34:42,400 --> 01:34:44,760
Speaker 1: he's there all the time. If it's yellow, he's not

1931
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:47,439
Speaker 1: there that much. If it's green. You know, I'd have

1932
01:34:47,479 --> 01:34:49,639
Speaker 1: different colors so that I could look at a map

1933
01:34:49,680 --> 01:34:51,920
Speaker 1: and see those hot spots of where that buck would

1934
01:34:51,920 --> 01:34:54,559
Speaker 1: be the most. But it's kind of like I already

1935
01:34:54,560 --> 01:34:57,360
Speaker 1: had those in my head where he's at. And then

1936
01:34:57,360 --> 01:35:00,080
Speaker 1: it comes back down to that cluster stands in this

1937
01:35:00,280 --> 01:35:03,639
Speaker 1: thirty acres or this edge, And if I know he's

1938
01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:05,720
Speaker 1: in that thirty acres, I'm gonna chip away at him

1939
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:07,839
Speaker 1: on the outside with the right wind, and they'll stands.

1940
01:35:08,600 --> 01:35:13,120
Speaker 1: And it's it's amazing how if you it's the little things.

1941
01:35:13,200 --> 01:35:15,720
Speaker 1: If you're if you're being smart how you hunt, you're

1942
01:35:15,760 --> 01:35:19,200
Speaker 1: not making a lot of noise, you're blending into the woods. Um,

1943
01:35:19,400 --> 01:35:21,880
Speaker 1: you can even get away with a little bit less

1944
01:35:21,880 --> 01:35:25,000
Speaker 1: strategy and still be very consistent on shooting those target

1945
01:35:25,040 --> 01:35:27,720
Speaker 1: box just because you're not buggering them out and you're

1946
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:30,240
Speaker 1: hunting safe and you're making smart decisions on when to

1947
01:35:30,280 --> 01:35:35,040
Speaker 1: go in. Yeah. Yeah, well so yeah, Like I said,

1948
01:35:35,040 --> 01:35:37,160
Speaker 1: it's kind of gonna help your listeners. So, but it's

1949
01:35:37,200 --> 01:35:40,120
Speaker 1: just it's kind of um. I think we can get

1950
01:35:40,160 --> 01:35:45,240
Speaker 1: so bogged down in those details. It's information overload. I'm

1951
01:35:45,280 --> 01:35:48,679
Speaker 1: the type of personality that I keep those in my head.

1952
01:35:49,240 --> 01:35:52,559
Speaker 1: If I wrote them down and made charts or graphs,

1953
01:35:52,680 --> 01:35:54,360
Speaker 1: to me, it would almost take the fun out of it.

1954
01:35:54,400 --> 01:35:57,719
Speaker 1: But that's me. That's just my personality. I'd rather spend

1955
01:35:57,760 --> 01:36:00,840
Speaker 1: more time scouting or having friends is over setting around

1956
01:36:00,880 --> 01:36:04,160
Speaker 1: the fire. I don't know, you know, it's more um.

1957
01:36:04,200 --> 01:36:06,920
Speaker 1: To some people, that's really cool, you know, like they

1958
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:09,400
Speaker 1: love doing that. I don't blame I have a friend Tim.

1959
01:36:09,479 --> 01:36:11,800
Speaker 1: He records and he's a really close friend of mine

1960
01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:14,479
Speaker 1: up in the up and Michigan, up in Market Michigan.

1961
01:36:14,479 --> 01:36:17,799
Speaker 1: But Tim keeps a journal and he records literally the weather,

1962
01:36:17,960 --> 01:36:20,280
Speaker 1: the movement, how many hunters around the land, what deer

1963
01:36:20,320 --> 01:36:23,680
Speaker 1: he saw, where they came from, and and imagine the

1964
01:36:23,760 --> 01:36:25,960
Speaker 1: history that he could look back on twenty years from now,

1965
01:36:26,040 --> 01:36:28,920
Speaker 1: thirty years his grandkids. So you know, I'm missing out

1966
01:36:28,920 --> 01:36:31,800
Speaker 1: on some of that stuff. I know, well, I can

1967
01:36:31,840 --> 01:36:34,400
Speaker 1: tell you as one of those people, as one of

1968
01:36:34,439 --> 01:36:37,400
Speaker 1: those crazy people, sometimes it ken lead to some stress

1969
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:41,679
Speaker 1: and over analysis. So there's pros and towns. Yeah, yeah,

1970
01:36:41,760 --> 01:36:45,000
Speaker 1: and that's where yeah, there's already. I mean, you know,

1971
01:36:45,160 --> 01:36:47,599
Speaker 1: it's we're both really busy with what we do. It's

1972
01:36:47,640 --> 01:36:51,840
Speaker 1: kind of like you gotta you getta balance what uh

1973
01:36:51,960 --> 01:36:53,880
Speaker 1: you make a priority and what you don't. It's not

1974
01:36:53,920 --> 01:36:56,120
Speaker 1: that you don't have time, it's as you spend your

1975
01:36:56,160 --> 01:37:00,680
Speaker 1: time on almost a list of priorities, which you podcast.

1976
01:37:00,760 --> 01:37:03,040
Speaker 1: You know, like you said, we're getting ready to going.

1977
01:37:03,120 --> 01:37:05,120
Speaker 1: But I always, I always love talking to you. So

1978
01:37:05,160 --> 01:37:08,840
Speaker 1: it's kind of like when Mark Kenyon calls, I'm gonna

1979
01:37:09,120 --> 01:37:11,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do a podcast today. You know, we get

1980
01:37:11,280 --> 01:37:14,479
Speaker 1: request for podcasts all the time, but I've always enjoyed

1981
01:37:14,520 --> 01:37:17,439
Speaker 1: the history with you and and talking about this stuff,

1982
01:37:17,479 --> 01:37:20,400
Speaker 1: because um, it always leads this down a rabbit hole

1983
01:37:20,439 --> 01:37:23,439
Speaker 1: of good rabbit hole of um a lot of detail

1984
01:37:23,520 --> 01:37:27,080
Speaker 1: and strategy that some people either gloss over or they

1985
01:37:27,120 --> 01:37:31,000
Speaker 1: just don't care to talk about or really relate to. Yeah, yeah, well,

1986
01:37:31,040 --> 01:37:35,120
Speaker 1: I I really really really appreciate you taking the time

1987
01:37:35,120 --> 01:37:38,599
Speaker 1: to do this, and uh and I too really enjoy

1988
01:37:38,840 --> 01:37:41,240
Speaker 1: how we can geek out and get into this level stuff.

1989
01:37:41,280 --> 01:37:43,479
Speaker 1: So let's just do one last question and then get

1990
01:37:43,520 --> 01:37:48,559
Speaker 1: you out the door. If if you had to right down,

1991
01:37:48,680 --> 01:37:50,800
Speaker 1: like if I had a stone tablet in front of you,

1992
01:37:50,840 --> 01:37:53,360
Speaker 1: like a big chunk of granite, and I gave you

1993
01:37:54,280 --> 01:37:56,519
Speaker 1: big old piece of metal you could scrape, you could

1994
01:37:56,560 --> 01:38:00,320
Speaker 1: engrave some words into this stone tablet, and I was

1995
01:38:00,320 --> 01:38:05,080
Speaker 1: gonna say, Jeff, right for me, your top three rules

1996
01:38:05,120 --> 01:38:09,080
Speaker 1: for patterning Bucks. You can write these things in stone

1997
01:38:09,120 --> 01:38:11,759
Speaker 1: and everyone will see for the rest of time. Jeff

1998
01:38:11,840 --> 01:38:14,960
Speaker 1: sturgises Keys to patterning Bucks. You've got three things you're

1999
01:38:14,960 --> 01:38:17,280
Speaker 1: gonna write on this stone tablet. We're gonna stick it

2000
01:38:17,320 --> 01:38:19,320
Speaker 1: on top of a mountain, and every deer hunter in

2001
01:38:19,360 --> 01:38:21,880
Speaker 1: Wisconsin and Minnesota has got to make a pilgrimage to

2002
01:38:21,960 --> 01:38:24,840
Speaker 1: it and see this to help them kill deer in

2003
01:38:24,880 --> 01:38:27,639
Speaker 1: the future and many other states as well. What would

2004
01:38:27,680 --> 01:38:32,320
Speaker 1: you engrave on that stone tablet Jeff Three? Three main rules.

2005
01:38:33,520 --> 01:38:35,880
Speaker 1: I put an asterisk down the bottom. Mark Kennion only

2006
01:38:35,920 --> 01:38:44,040
Speaker 1: allowed me three. But anyways, I'll think of things tomorrow

2007
01:38:44,040 --> 01:38:46,120
Speaker 1: when I'm driving to where we're on. It's gonna be

2008
01:38:46,360 --> 01:38:49,960
Speaker 1: But um, I know the one of the first things

2009
01:38:50,160 --> 01:38:54,200
Speaker 1: is look in the past almost more than you look

2010
01:38:54,200 --> 01:38:56,760
Speaker 1: in the future. What I mean by that is look

2011
01:38:56,800 --> 01:39:01,280
Speaker 1: for historical sign look for historical presence. Um you're looking

2012
01:39:01,320 --> 01:39:05,320
Speaker 1: for this historical patterns. Those historical patterns might be a

2013
01:39:05,400 --> 01:39:07,439
Speaker 1: Bux you knew, or it might be in a new area,

2014
01:39:07,479 --> 01:39:10,240
Speaker 1: and you're finding different ages of robs and the presence

2015
01:39:10,280 --> 01:39:12,920
Speaker 1: of scrapes, and knowing that multiple bucks have used this

2016
01:39:13,040 --> 01:39:15,799
Speaker 1: over a number of years. And so I think sometimes

2017
01:39:15,800 --> 01:39:18,799
Speaker 1: we look forward so much and we think we're planning

2018
01:39:19,000 --> 01:39:22,160
Speaker 1: all these great making these great strategies, and we forget

2019
01:39:22,160 --> 01:39:24,600
Speaker 1: about all this stuff that's been there for two or

2020
01:39:24,600 --> 01:39:27,559
Speaker 1: three years behind us. The second one of the things,

2021
01:39:27,600 --> 01:39:29,559
Speaker 1: just these are three things that popped into my head

2022
01:39:29,720 --> 01:39:34,479
Speaker 1: is the second thing is really, um, learn to hunt

2023
01:39:34,520 --> 01:39:36,960
Speaker 1: like a predator. And one of the ways to do that,

2024
01:39:37,040 --> 01:39:39,840
Speaker 1: And I know this sounds corny, is to really imagine

2025
01:39:39,840 --> 01:39:43,559
Speaker 1: the deer head guns? You know, would you would you

2026
01:39:43,720 --> 01:39:46,439
Speaker 1: use that stand whether its noise or or stick out?

2027
01:39:46,479 --> 01:39:49,080
Speaker 1: Would you use that stand if the deer had a

2028
01:39:49,120 --> 01:39:53,000
Speaker 1: gun and doesn't allow you to hide? Are you really hiding? Um?

2029
01:39:53,120 --> 01:39:56,200
Speaker 1: Would you sit in that area and take that chance

2030
01:39:56,720 --> 01:39:59,559
Speaker 1: around that deer? If that deer could shoot you if

2031
01:39:59,560 --> 01:40:02,479
Speaker 1: a knew you were there? Um? Your approach in and out?

2032
01:40:03,200 --> 01:40:05,720
Speaker 1: How how would you hunt? Different? If you had to

2033
01:40:05,720 --> 01:40:07,559
Speaker 1: be more like a sniper on a hill? How would

2034
01:40:07,600 --> 01:40:10,320
Speaker 1: you how would you ambush? I think about a mountline

2035
01:40:10,360 --> 01:40:12,600
Speaker 1: or a cat sitting on a ledge and the unsuspecting

2036
01:40:12,640 --> 01:40:15,120
Speaker 1: prey that goes by. I think that's kind of cool.

2037
01:40:15,240 --> 01:40:16,840
Speaker 1: That's the way I like to hunt. The other guys

2038
01:40:16,840 --> 01:40:19,479
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania they made fun of us from Michigan for

2039
01:40:19,600 --> 01:40:22,120
Speaker 1: coming out and sitting they call the sitters and where

2040
01:40:22,120 --> 01:40:24,360
Speaker 1: they like to walk and still hunt and and they

2041
01:40:24,400 --> 01:40:27,519
Speaker 1: shot bucks too. So it was just that's how I like.

2042
01:40:27,680 --> 01:40:30,040
Speaker 1: I like to be blend into the woods, be a

2043
01:40:30,080 --> 01:40:32,120
Speaker 1: part of the woods, and then you get to kind

2044
01:40:32,120 --> 01:40:35,320
Speaker 1: of soak in everything to you're not an obtrusive, unwanted guest.

2045
01:40:35,439 --> 01:40:37,760
Speaker 1: You're you're part of the woods, and then you can

2046
01:40:37,800 --> 01:40:39,720
Speaker 1: to me, you can enjoy it more. So you know,

2047
01:40:39,840 --> 01:40:43,559
Speaker 1: first of all, look look in the past. Second, really blend,

2048
01:40:43,640 --> 01:40:46,679
Speaker 1: and then third when you do choose to hunt, really

2049
01:40:46,800 --> 01:40:51,840
Speaker 1: choose to hunt by um picking the conditions. There's something

2050
01:40:51,880 --> 01:40:53,840
Speaker 1: that I had to do in the early nineties because

2051
01:40:53,880 --> 01:40:55,599
Speaker 1: I had two weeks vacation, I could take a half

2052
01:40:55,640 --> 01:40:58,599
Speaker 1: day off of the time, and and I didn't have

2053
01:40:59,280 --> 01:41:00,640
Speaker 1: And then when it got a two kids in the

2054
01:41:00,640 --> 01:41:03,040
Speaker 1: early two thousand's, I had to hunt for two or

2055
01:41:03,040 --> 01:41:04,599
Speaker 1: three days at a time, So I had to pick

2056
01:41:04,680 --> 01:41:07,080
Speaker 1: my days. I was. I was lucky as it got later,

2057
01:41:07,160 --> 01:41:09,000
Speaker 1: I was a real estate appraiser for eleven years on

2058
01:41:09,040 --> 01:41:11,719
Speaker 1: my own business. So I kind of slant my hunts

2059
01:41:11,760 --> 01:41:13,720
Speaker 1: towards the good weather and the good days where I

2060
01:41:13,760 --> 01:41:16,759
Speaker 1: thought dear would move. And so that's been a gift

2061
01:41:16,800 --> 01:41:19,120
Speaker 1: to me to be able to do that, because it

2062
01:41:19,120 --> 01:41:21,200
Speaker 1: doesn't matter like it's a weekend, you have wh I

2063
01:41:21,200 --> 01:41:23,880
Speaker 1: could take a Friday or a Monday. We'll just slant

2064
01:41:23,880 --> 01:41:25,720
Speaker 1: it towards the best weather days. At the best weather

2065
01:41:25,800 --> 01:41:27,720
Speaker 1: day is Monday. Kind of look at it black and white.

2066
01:41:27,760 --> 01:41:29,920
Speaker 1: That's what I'm gonna go and maybe Saturday stinks for

2067
01:41:29,960 --> 01:41:32,160
Speaker 1: the weather, so spend some time with the family. Yeah,

2068
01:41:32,240 --> 01:41:34,760
Speaker 1: you get less hunting time, but you're able to spend

2069
01:41:34,800 --> 01:41:36,760
Speaker 1: time with your family and friends a little bit more too.

2070
01:41:36,760 --> 01:41:39,000
Speaker 1: Maybe at work, maybe you're able to impress your boss

2071
01:41:39,040 --> 01:41:40,479
Speaker 1: a little bit more because you said, you know what,

2072
01:41:40,800 --> 01:41:43,559
Speaker 1: I'll come in on Saturday, and do you mind if

2073
01:41:43,600 --> 01:41:45,880
Speaker 1: I take Monday off instead of Friday or so whatever,

2074
01:41:45,960 --> 01:41:48,479
Speaker 1: But you can slant it a little bit and so

2075
01:41:48,800 --> 01:41:51,720
Speaker 1: not you know, not holding. I talked about this all

2076
01:41:51,720 --> 01:41:54,479
Speaker 1: the time that it. You know, people say you can't

2077
01:41:54,520 --> 01:41:56,519
Speaker 1: kill him from the couch. I think that saved more

2078
01:41:56,600 --> 01:42:00,280
Speaker 1: dear more bucks than any other phrase and in the

2079
01:42:00,439 --> 01:42:03,000
Speaker 1: history of hunting, because people look at it like, well,

2080
01:42:03,000 --> 01:42:04,840
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go sitting that stand ten days in

2081
01:42:04,840 --> 01:42:07,759
Speaker 1: a row. And what you find is there's a diminishing

2082
01:42:07,800 --> 01:42:10,840
Speaker 1: return every time you sit there. And uh. And so

2083
01:42:10,920 --> 01:42:14,120
Speaker 1: if you if you really look at the past, if

2084
01:42:14,120 --> 01:42:17,479
Speaker 1: you learn to blend, and then you learned to really

2085
01:42:17,520 --> 01:42:20,800
Speaker 1: pick your approach on those high percentage days, then to me,

2086
01:42:20,960 --> 01:42:23,080
Speaker 1: you combine those right there. And even if you're hunting

2087
01:42:23,080 --> 01:42:27,479
Speaker 1: out a poor property or habitat property, smaller property a

2088
01:42:27,560 --> 01:42:30,480
Speaker 1: little bit more pressured land, and you're gonna be successful

2089
01:42:30,520 --> 01:42:33,560
Speaker 1: a lot more than than you're not. I love it.

2090
01:42:33,560 --> 01:42:36,800
Speaker 1: Those three things. Those are good. Those are good things.

2091
01:42:37,040 --> 01:42:40,120
Speaker 1: And uh and I know that if if folks visit

2092
01:42:40,240 --> 01:42:43,080
Speaker 1: those granite tablets and read through your top three rules,

2093
01:42:43,080 --> 01:42:47,160
Speaker 1: they're gonna say to themselves, Man, I want more from this, Jeff, guy, Jeff,

2094
01:42:47,160 --> 01:42:51,040
Speaker 1: where can folks go to get more from me? Because, um,

2095
01:42:51,200 --> 01:42:53,200
Speaker 1: well your stuff is great. That's really some of the

2096
01:42:53,240 --> 01:42:56,560
Speaker 1: best out there. Well, I appreciate that, market really do.

2097
01:42:56,680 --> 01:42:59,439
Speaker 1: And you can tell. I mean, I lived this stuff.

2098
01:42:59,439 --> 01:43:01,639
Speaker 1: So this is what I do. You know, whether it's

2099
01:43:01,680 --> 01:43:05,000
Speaker 1: with clients, um around a hundred a year being in

2100
01:43:05,040 --> 01:43:06,880
Speaker 1: the woods hunting, and I like to do a lot.

2101
01:43:06,920 --> 01:43:08,519
Speaker 1: I think we're going as a family down to hunt

2102
01:43:08,520 --> 01:43:10,960
Speaker 1: Public Land in Ohio this year for their gun season.

2103
01:43:11,000 --> 01:43:13,400
Speaker 1: Opener Um. I like to do a lot of do

2104
01:43:13,439 --> 01:43:16,840
Speaker 1: it yourself and so that comes through. And for that,

2105
01:43:17,479 --> 01:43:19,400
Speaker 1: I feel like even on client properties, we get to

2106
01:43:19,439 --> 01:43:21,200
Speaker 1: learn every time we go on another client and so

2107
01:43:21,240 --> 01:43:24,080
Speaker 1: then when I think I learned something, I love to

2108
01:43:24,120 --> 01:43:27,839
Speaker 1: teach that. So the YouTube channel white till abitat Solutions

2109
01:43:27,880 --> 01:43:31,599
Speaker 1: dot com. Um we have over a thousand videos now

2110
01:43:31,680 --> 01:43:34,000
Speaker 1: on there for people to cruise to. I try to

2111
01:43:34,000 --> 01:43:36,679
Speaker 1: categorize them so like you mentioned mock scrapes, I think

2112
01:43:36,720 --> 01:43:39,240
Speaker 1: we have almost sixty mock scrape videos in that playlist.

2113
01:43:39,280 --> 01:43:42,400
Speaker 1: I try to put them in playlists. Advanced hunting strategy

2114
01:43:42,479 --> 01:43:43,880
Speaker 1: is probably the largest and right and be a couple

2115
01:43:43,920 --> 01:43:46,240
Speaker 1: of hundred, and there of course food plots, habitat provement.

2116
01:43:46,800 --> 01:43:48,920
Speaker 1: I also try to spend quite a bit of time

2117
01:43:49,439 --> 01:43:51,519
Speaker 1: and I go through streaks on this depending on how

2118
01:43:51,560 --> 01:43:55,000
Speaker 1: much time I have. But Instagram, White Till, Habitat solutions

2119
01:43:55,040 --> 01:43:58,840
Speaker 1: there too. And then Dylan and I who Dylan he's

2120
01:43:58,960 --> 01:44:01,599
Speaker 1: goes to clients to who he's worked with me since

2121
01:44:01,600 --> 01:44:05,479
Speaker 1: two thousand sixteen Independent works for a A is a

2122
01:44:05,479 --> 01:44:07,960
Speaker 1: great dude. And you you know Dylan Dylan has worked

2123
01:44:07,960 --> 01:44:10,840
Speaker 1: with U Meat Eater. Um, you know, he's worked with

2124
01:44:10,840 --> 01:44:13,880
Speaker 1: a lot of different hunting industry personalities and people and

2125
01:44:14,040 --> 01:44:18,120
Speaker 1: entities and companies and so. But um, Dylan and I

2126
01:44:18,120 --> 01:44:20,799
Speaker 1: I worked with them about once a week shooting videos

2127
01:44:21,400 --> 01:44:23,120
Speaker 1: and he sits in a tree with me too. We

2128
01:44:23,320 --> 01:44:26,519
Speaker 1: playing a strategize a lot together and we started a

2129
01:44:26,560 --> 01:44:29,719
Speaker 1: podcast and um, you know we've talked to you about

2130
01:44:29,880 --> 01:44:32,240
Speaker 1: being our first guest. We're hoping that will work out

2131
01:44:32,280 --> 01:44:35,800
Speaker 1: here in the next couple of weeks. Um, but yeah,

2132
01:44:35,880 --> 01:44:37,800
Speaker 1: we're we're looking forward that we've already talked about the

2133
01:44:37,840 --> 01:44:41,680
Speaker 1: topic with you to talk about so but kind of

2134
01:44:41,680 --> 01:44:45,600
Speaker 1: a blend of Western do it yourself whitetail hunting and

2135
01:44:45,720 --> 01:44:49,280
Speaker 1: hunting industry questions and stuff. So, um, you know, get

2136
01:44:49,280 --> 01:44:51,680
Speaker 1: into a talk about that. But bottom line is, um,

2137
01:44:52,040 --> 01:44:56,280
Speaker 1: we've shot three uh not shot, we actually have recorded them,

2138
01:44:56,280 --> 01:45:00,439
Speaker 1: but we've filmed them and recorded them and those those

2139
01:45:00,439 --> 01:45:02,680
Speaker 1: should be on my website. We have white tab tat

2140
01:45:02,720 --> 01:45:06,000
Speaker 1: solutions dot Com. There I have over six d white

2141
01:45:06,000 --> 01:45:08,960
Speaker 1: Till articles. I've written strategy articles and we'll be hosting

2142
01:45:09,000 --> 01:45:11,920
Speaker 1: the podcasts supposed to be done by about October thirty one,

2143
01:45:12,000 --> 01:45:15,400
Speaker 1: the first of November, and we'll try to consistently put

2144
01:45:15,400 --> 01:45:18,120
Speaker 1: out about one a week on those. So that's that's

2145
01:45:18,160 --> 01:45:21,439
Speaker 1: another way. You know. Of course you have books, web classes,

2146
01:45:21,520 --> 01:45:24,559
Speaker 1: we go visit people site, visit we even sell seed now,

2147
01:45:24,840 --> 01:45:29,360
Speaker 1: whs wildlife flens. But again, you know, I have over

2148
01:45:29,400 --> 01:45:31,800
Speaker 1: a thousand videos on YouTube, bring out the podcast, over

2149
01:45:31,800 --> 01:45:35,439
Speaker 1: six articles and um that's all for free and so

2150
01:45:35,520 --> 01:45:39,120
Speaker 1: I don't hold anything back. Um, it's you. You try to.

2151
01:45:39,240 --> 01:45:41,400
Speaker 1: When I've learned something, I keep a running tab of

2152
01:45:41,439 --> 01:45:43,760
Speaker 1: notes I might have shown you, Mark, but it's a

2153
01:45:43,760 --> 01:45:46,439
Speaker 1: couple of thousand long in my in my phone, and

2154
01:45:47,120 --> 01:45:49,760
Speaker 1: it's um. You know, when I think of something i'm

2155
01:45:49,800 --> 01:45:51,720
Speaker 1: on a client property, I get excited and geeked out

2156
01:45:51,760 --> 01:45:53,559
Speaker 1: about it. I can't wait to tell people, and so

2157
01:45:53,600 --> 01:45:59,400
Speaker 1: I do that through Instagram, YouTube, now, the podcast, books, writings, whatever. Man,

2158
01:45:59,560 --> 01:46:02,679
Speaker 1: it's awesome. We've all we've all benefited from it. So

2159
01:46:02,840 --> 01:46:07,040
Speaker 1: uh on the on behalf of everybody listening here, and

2160
01:46:07,080 --> 01:46:10,160
Speaker 1: all the folks have watched your videos, read your books,

2161
01:46:10,280 --> 01:46:13,200
Speaker 1: read your articles. Let me just for I'm sure you've

2162
01:46:13,240 --> 01:46:14,519
Speaker 1: heard a million of these, but let me just do

2163
01:46:14,520 --> 01:46:20,200
Speaker 1: it all more time. Thank you well, Mark, thank you.

2164
01:46:20,200 --> 01:46:23,559
Speaker 1: You know, I really appreciate it. It's uh, it's been uh,

2165
01:46:23,680 --> 01:46:27,920
Speaker 1: it's been fun rewarding, you know, this entire process. But

2166
01:46:28,280 --> 01:46:30,639
Speaker 1: most of all, I hope you know. I always say,

2167
01:46:30,640 --> 01:46:33,360
Speaker 1: if the information is not helping anybody, then it's why

2168
01:46:33,360 --> 01:46:36,800
Speaker 1: I put it out until UM. I love hearing that feedback.

2169
01:46:37,000 --> 01:46:39,320
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. I love hearing the feedback and the

2170
01:46:39,360 --> 01:46:43,880
Speaker 1: comments on YouTube, and uh in Instagram to um YouTube

2171
01:46:43,920 --> 01:46:46,000
Speaker 1: tells me I answer about ten tho comments a year

2172
01:46:46,040 --> 01:46:49,400
Speaker 1: on YouTube, So I try, I try. I try to

2173
01:46:49,439 --> 01:46:52,880
Speaker 1: answer as many as possible. Um. But you know, the

2174
01:46:52,880 --> 01:46:55,200
Speaker 1: whole the whole mission is to try to help. So

2175
01:46:55,760 --> 01:46:58,240
Speaker 1: I hope it comes true. And I really appreciate that feedback.

2176
01:46:58,280 --> 01:47:00,960
Speaker 1: Thank you. Mark. Yeah, well, hey, you're you're doing an

2177
01:47:00,960 --> 01:47:04,320
Speaker 1: awesome job. But now I've got one last thing for it, Jeff,

2178
01:47:04,600 --> 01:47:07,240
Speaker 1: you need to hang up this phone, finished packing and

2179
01:47:07,360 --> 01:47:09,639
Speaker 1: go kill a buck in Saskatchewan. All right, my friend,

2180
01:47:10,800 --> 01:47:14,320
Speaker 1: that's that sounds really good. Mark, We're that's Uh. I

2181
01:47:14,400 --> 01:47:16,040
Speaker 1: thought that was a dream hunt. I'd go on and

2182
01:47:16,520 --> 01:47:18,519
Speaker 1: when I'm in you know, ten years now or something,

2183
01:47:18,560 --> 01:47:21,920
Speaker 1: but um hunt wise made it happen this year. It

2184
01:47:22,000 --> 01:47:24,120
Speaker 1: was a random call in January. They let me know

2185
01:47:24,560 --> 01:47:28,559
Speaker 1: Jen's going to and um Dante's actually coming to film.

2186
01:47:28,600 --> 01:47:30,519
Speaker 1: We found out that in the last couple of days

2187
01:47:30,520 --> 01:47:33,120
Speaker 1: he worked at Matthews, my stepson, and he uh, they

2188
01:47:33,120 --> 01:47:35,559
Speaker 1: gave him time off unpaid. So we're helping him out

2189
01:47:35,600 --> 01:47:37,960
Speaker 1: with that and getting him he's gonna film us, and

2190
01:47:38,000 --> 01:47:40,360
Speaker 1: so we're even at six am. It's kind of a

2191
01:47:40,439 --> 01:47:42,719
Speaker 1: dream hunt I've always wanted to hunt those chocolate horn

2192
01:47:42,800 --> 01:47:45,760
Speaker 1: monsters up north. Yeah, and we're gonna be able to

2193
01:47:45,840 --> 01:47:49,800
Speaker 1: do so here pretty soon. So very very fortunate. Alright, Well,

2194
01:47:49,800 --> 01:47:51,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be crossing every one of my fingers and

2195
01:47:51,960 --> 01:47:55,920
Speaker 1: toes for you. Thank you, Mark. I'm open to just

2196
01:47:55,960 --> 01:47:58,920
Speaker 1: see a giant that'll be. That'll be nice, it'd be,

2197
01:47:59,000 --> 01:48:01,280
Speaker 1: it'd be awesome. So just to be up there, that

2198
01:48:01,360 --> 01:48:05,479
Speaker 1: sounds awesome. All right. That's it, my friends. I hope

2199
01:48:05,479 --> 01:48:08,720
Speaker 1: you enjoyed it. Thanks for joining me. Follow along my

2200
01:48:08,840 --> 01:48:12,160
Speaker 1: story over at wired to Hunt on Instagram. Be sure

2201
01:48:12,200 --> 01:48:14,600
Speaker 1: to check out the Wired to Hunt page over on

2202
01:48:14,640 --> 01:48:17,799
Speaker 1: the mediator website. That's the meat eater dot com slash wired.

2203
01:48:18,640 --> 01:48:22,439
Speaker 1: You can follow along on Facebook our YouTube channel. We've

2204
01:48:22,479 --> 01:48:24,479
Speaker 1: got the Dear Country Show over on the meat Eater

2205
01:48:24,560 --> 01:48:27,600
Speaker 1: YouTube channel. Be sure you're subsided or subscribed to the

2206
01:48:27,680 --> 01:48:30,000
Speaker 1: Meat Eater newsletter, which you can do over on that

2207
01:48:30,080 --> 01:48:33,080
Speaker 1: meet of your website. You'll get a weekly email with

2208
01:48:33,120 --> 01:48:35,080
Speaker 1: an update on all the content we've got. What I'm

2209
01:48:35,080 --> 01:48:36,519
Speaker 1: trying to say is we're putting out a lot of

2210
01:48:36,520 --> 01:48:39,200
Speaker 1: deer hunting stuff for you folks who love deer hunting,

2211
01:48:39,560 --> 01:48:42,880
Speaker 1: just like me. But it's time to hunt, so let's

2212
01:48:42,880 --> 01:48:46,200
Speaker 1: stop talking, let's get in the woods. Best of luck,

2213
01:48:46,560 --> 01:48:51,040
Speaker 1: have fun, and until next time, stay wired to Hunt.