1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:25,596 Speaker 1: Pushkin back. In eighteen sixty three, the Russian novelist Dostoevsky 2 00:00:25,836 --> 00:00:29,116 Speaker 1: gave his readers a challenge, one which I'm going to 3 00:00:29,196 --> 00:00:33,116 Speaker 1: argue has a huge impact on happiness. Try to pose 4 00:00:33,156 --> 00:00:35,716 Speaker 1: for yourself this task. He wrote, not to think of 5 00:00:35,756 --> 00:00:38,956 Speaker 1: a polar bear. So for the next few seconds, let's 6 00:00:38,956 --> 00:00:43,116 Speaker 1: do it. Let's not think of a white bear. Ready, go, 7 00:00:49,796 --> 00:00:52,796 Speaker 1: how'd you do? My guess is that even though you 8 00:00:52,796 --> 00:00:54,956 Speaker 1: were trying not to think of a white bear, your 9 00:00:54,996 --> 00:00:58,396 Speaker 1: mind immediately went to thoughts of a white bear. That's 10 00:00:58,396 --> 00:01:01,956 Speaker 1: what Dostoevsky realized. He warned that when you try not 11 00:01:02,076 --> 00:01:04,556 Speaker 1: to think of something, you will see that cursed thing 12 00:01:04,636 --> 00:01:09,116 Speaker 1: come to mind every minute. The Harvard psychologist Dan Wegner 13 00:01:09,516 --> 00:01:12,116 Speaker 1: was interested in these effects, which he referred to as 14 00:01:12,156 --> 00:01:16,596 Speaker 1: ironic processes. Cases, were our minds, ironically enough go to 15 00:01:16,636 --> 00:01:18,836 Speaker 1: the exact place where we don't want them to go. 16 00:01:19,676 --> 00:01:22,916 Speaker 1: Wedner created a version of Dostoevsky's polar bear challenge as 17 00:01:22,916 --> 00:01:25,836 Speaker 1: an experiment with college students. He asked them to speak 18 00:01:25,836 --> 00:01:27,916 Speaker 1: their stream of consciousness for five minutes. 19 00:01:28,796 --> 00:01:31,836 Speaker 2: Living with my boyfriend right now so I didn't have to. 20 00:01:31,996 --> 00:01:35,116 Speaker 1: At sunburn and I didn't want to be out in 21 00:01:35,156 --> 00:01:35,636 Speaker 1: the sun. 22 00:01:35,876 --> 00:01:38,956 Speaker 3: Really quiet squeaks me out a little bit. 23 00:01:40,356 --> 00:01:43,476 Speaker 1: Next, he asked them to repeat the task, but explicitly 24 00:01:43,516 --> 00:01:46,676 Speaker 1: tells them not to think of a white bear. If 25 00:01:46,676 --> 00:01:48,996 Speaker 1: the bear does pop into their minds while babbling, you 26 00:01:49,036 --> 00:01:53,556 Speaker 1: have to I asked my students to repeat the experiment. 27 00:01:54,436 --> 00:01:55,156 Speaker 1: Here's how they did. 28 00:01:57,436 --> 00:02:01,076 Speaker 3: Of course, all right, and now, because I was told. 29 00:02:00,956 --> 00:02:04,356 Speaker 2: Not to, I'm not thinking about. 30 00:02:04,116 --> 00:02:06,076 Speaker 4: That, I'm thinking about. 31 00:02:09,396 --> 00:02:14,156 Speaker 1: Think about it, thinking about it. Oh man, it's trickier 32 00:02:14,196 --> 00:02:16,836 Speaker 1: than I thought. It's funny to hear so many bells ringing, 33 00:02:17,076 --> 00:02:20,556 Speaker 1: but everyone does this. On average. People in Wagner's original 34 00:02:20,596 --> 00:02:24,396 Speaker 1: study ended up ringing the bell about once per minute. 35 00:02:25,116 --> 00:02:27,036 Speaker 1: Things that we don't want in our heads seem to 36 00:02:27,036 --> 00:02:29,436 Speaker 1: come up all the time. Just think of that song 37 00:02:29,556 --> 00:02:38,236 Speaker 1: you can't stop pumming. But sometimes the thoughts we don't 38 00:02:38,236 --> 00:02:40,836 Speaker 1: want to think about are a lot more serious than 39 00:02:40,876 --> 00:02:44,396 Speaker 1: a catchy song or a polar bear image. Our dumb 40 00:02:44,436 --> 00:02:48,116 Speaker 1: minds also spontaneously go to lots of yucky thoughts. That 41 00:02:48,156 --> 00:02:50,876 Speaker 1: fight with our spouse a few weeks back, or that 42 00:02:50,916 --> 00:02:54,196 Speaker 1: mean comment from a coworker you can't shake. Even really 43 00:02:54,236 --> 00:02:57,196 Speaker 1: traumatic memories have a knack for popping into our heads 44 00:02:57,356 --> 00:03:00,836 Speaker 1: when we least want them there, which raises an important question. 45 00:03:01,316 --> 00:03:03,956 Speaker 1: Why can't we simply get rid of all these unwanted thoughts? 46 00:03:04,356 --> 00:03:06,876 Speaker 1: What strategies should we be using not to think of 47 00:03:06,876 --> 00:03:10,716 Speaker 1: white bears, earworm tunes, and those awful memories that hinder 48 00:03:10,716 --> 00:03:17,436 Speaker 1: our happiness. Our minds are constantly telling us what to 49 00:03:17,436 --> 00:03:20,036 Speaker 1: do to be happy. But what if our minds are wrong? 50 00:03:20,596 --> 00:03:22,916 Speaker 1: What if our minds are lying to us, leading us 51 00:03:22,996 --> 00:03:26,356 Speaker 1: away from what will really make us happy. The good 52 00:03:26,396 --> 00:03:29,196 Speaker 1: news is that understanding the science of the mind can 53 00:03:29,196 --> 00:03:32,876 Speaker 1: point us all back in the right direction. You're listening 54 00:03:32,996 --> 00:03:35,636 Speaker 1: to the Happiness Lab with doctor Laurie Santinis. 55 00:03:39,716 --> 00:03:43,316 Speaker 5: So golfers would never use the word, wouldn't even wouldn't 56 00:03:43,316 --> 00:03:47,636 Speaker 5: acknowledge it, But there's no question it's well known. 57 00:03:47,916 --> 00:03:49,276 Speaker 2: You know, some of the greatest players in the history 58 00:03:49,276 --> 00:03:49,956 Speaker 2: of the game. Get it. 59 00:03:50,116 --> 00:03:52,716 Speaker 1: Colin Sheen played for the golf team back in the nineties. 60 00:03:53,236 --> 00:03:56,356 Speaker 1: He's now the head coach. Colin's a friend of mine, 61 00:03:56,556 --> 00:03:58,596 Speaker 1: which is the only reason he's willing to talk to 62 00:03:58,636 --> 00:04:01,716 Speaker 1: me about a topic that's usually for Bowen for golfers 63 00:04:01,716 --> 00:04:04,396 Speaker 1: to speak of, the yips, the. 64 00:04:04,396 --> 00:04:07,596 Speaker 5: Yips is like where you're putting and then your hands 65 00:04:07,676 --> 00:04:11,436 Speaker 5: just twitch and you're in a position where you no 66 00:04:11,516 --> 00:04:15,196 Speaker 5: longer in control of the club. It flicks, it twists, 67 00:04:15,436 --> 00:04:17,676 Speaker 5: you are in control of your of your hands, and 68 00:04:17,716 --> 00:04:20,356 Speaker 5: then there you are left broken. 69 00:04:21,716 --> 00:04:24,836 Speaker 1: The yips happen when golfers totally psyche themselves out, when 70 00:04:24,876 --> 00:04:27,316 Speaker 1: they think so much about not making a certain type 71 00:04:27,316 --> 00:04:30,276 Speaker 1: of mistake that they end up making exactly that mistake 72 00:04:30,636 --> 00:04:33,516 Speaker 1: all the time. And it's not just a one time thing. 73 00:04:34,276 --> 00:04:37,156 Speaker 1: The yips can return at any moment, and that fear 74 00:04:37,436 --> 00:04:38,396 Speaker 1: plagues golfers. 75 00:04:38,796 --> 00:04:41,716 Speaker 5: The idea of it sort of happening, or that it 76 00:04:41,836 --> 00:04:44,356 Speaker 5: might happen, has always been a thing for professional golfers, 77 00:04:44,516 --> 00:04:46,316 Speaker 5: and so you kind of lived in a constant dread 78 00:04:47,036 --> 00:04:48,996 Speaker 5: of this idea, like is today going to be one 79 00:04:49,036 --> 00:04:50,916 Speaker 5: of those days? Are we gonna have a bad yips day? 80 00:04:51,036 --> 00:04:54,156 Speaker 5: Or is it gonna are we going to be fairly easy? 81 00:04:54,276 --> 00:04:56,036 Speaker 5: Or and then you get on the course and it 82 00:04:56,076 --> 00:04:58,596 Speaker 5: may not even be on the first hole, and then 83 00:04:58,876 --> 00:05:02,596 Speaker 5: it can come at any moment, and it's it's an 84 00:05:02,676 --> 00:05:05,756 Speaker 5: unnerving aspect, it's a it's an embarrassing aspect. 85 00:05:05,796 --> 00:05:09,516 Speaker 2: It's it's humiliating. It's uh, it's dreadful. 86 00:05:10,516 --> 00:05:12,516 Speaker 1: Think about what happens when you hit a golf ball. 87 00:05:13,156 --> 00:05:15,756 Speaker 1: Making a putt involves not only thinking about where you 88 00:05:15,836 --> 00:05:18,236 Speaker 1: want the ball to go, but also where you want 89 00:05:18,236 --> 00:05:21,396 Speaker 1: the ball not to go. This act of thinking of 90 00:05:21,436 --> 00:05:24,356 Speaker 1: the unwanted action, whatever you do, don't hit it to 91 00:05:24,396 --> 00:05:28,196 Speaker 1: the left, seems to make that unwanted action more likely, 92 00:05:28,516 --> 00:05:31,396 Speaker 1: not less. It's like if you're carrying a glass of 93 00:05:31,396 --> 00:05:34,596 Speaker 1: wine over someone's new white carpet and you think, whatever 94 00:05:34,636 --> 00:05:37,636 Speaker 1: I do, I shouldn't spill this, And then, of course, 95 00:05:39,396 --> 00:05:43,476 Speaker 1: recent research shows how common this phenomenon is. College students 96 00:05:43,516 --> 00:05:46,036 Speaker 1: told not to think about a particular person before bed 97 00:05:46,436 --> 00:05:49,876 Speaker 1: end up dreaming about that person more often, and soccer 98 00:05:49,916 --> 00:05:52,076 Speaker 1: players told not to shoot a penalty kick to a 99 00:05:52,076 --> 00:05:55,956 Speaker 1: specific location tend to look at that exact forbidden spot, 100 00:05:56,116 --> 00:05:58,676 Speaker 1: which is a problem since players tend to aim where 101 00:05:58,716 --> 00:06:03,196 Speaker 1: they look. Dan Wegner, who devised the white Bear experiment, 102 00:06:03,596 --> 00:06:06,996 Speaker 1: also study these ironic effects on the golf course. He 103 00:06:07,036 --> 00:06:09,996 Speaker 1: had his student's put a ball towards a target. Some 104 00:06:10,036 --> 00:06:13,676 Speaker 1: subjects took the put normally, but others were told, whatever 105 00:06:13,756 --> 00:06:18,596 Speaker 1: you do, don't overshoot. What happens. People then do exactly 106 00:06:18,596 --> 00:06:21,396 Speaker 1: what they're told not to. They overshoot the ball by 107 00:06:21,436 --> 00:06:25,356 Speaker 1: about twenty centimeters. Wegner's experiment had found a way to 108 00:06:25,396 --> 00:06:28,596 Speaker 1: induce the yips, and it wasn't that hard. Just have 109 00:06:28,716 --> 00:06:31,316 Speaker 1: golfers tell themselves what not to do, and you have 110 00:06:31,356 --> 00:06:32,796 Speaker 1: a recipe for disaster. 111 00:06:33,196 --> 00:06:35,916 Speaker 5: Golf is a lovely game, and it's a cruel game. 112 00:06:35,996 --> 00:06:39,276 Speaker 5: When it's going poorly, it can be devastating. 113 00:06:39,676 --> 00:06:42,196 Speaker 1: But the most devastating thing about the yips is that 114 00:06:42,236 --> 00:06:45,676 Speaker 1: they tend to stick around. One bad shot follows another, 115 00:06:46,316 --> 00:06:49,556 Speaker 1: A whole ruined becomes a round ruined, A bad week 116 00:06:49,916 --> 00:06:53,596 Speaker 1: stretches out into a bad year. Colin explained that this 117 00:06:53,676 --> 00:06:56,876 Speaker 1: decline without end was famously summed up in a classic 118 00:06:56,996 --> 00:07:00,516 Speaker 1: article by Henry Longhurst, the great British golf essayist. 119 00:07:00,956 --> 00:07:04,196 Speaker 5: It's called once you've had him, you've got him, because 120 00:07:04,236 --> 00:07:06,596 Speaker 5: there's almost like the ideas there's not a cure, or 121 00:07:06,836 --> 00:07:10,676 Speaker 5: maybe some day there will be great to take a pill. 122 00:07:10,796 --> 00:07:12,836 Speaker 1: It was at this point in the interview that Colin 123 00:07:12,876 --> 00:07:15,836 Speaker 1: suddenly turned a bit quiet. He was wrestling with something. 124 00:07:16,316 --> 00:07:18,716 Speaker 1: He stammered for a while and began talking about his 125 00:07:18,756 --> 00:07:19,436 Speaker 1: glory days. 126 00:07:19,716 --> 00:07:21,596 Speaker 5: I played probably my best golf in my life, from 127 00:07:21,636 --> 00:07:24,836 Speaker 5: the time I was about twenty five to forty. I 128 00:07:24,836 --> 00:07:26,636 Speaker 5: had about a decade of my life where I was 129 00:07:26,676 --> 00:07:30,596 Speaker 5: a plus one handicap as and I loved playing well 130 00:07:30,636 --> 00:07:33,356 Speaker 5: and I did it without practicing much. And then in 131 00:07:33,396 --> 00:07:36,916 Speaker 5: the last five years or so, my game started to struggle, 132 00:07:37,076 --> 00:07:39,796 Speaker 5: and it went from being just a little bit of 133 00:07:39,796 --> 00:07:43,996 Speaker 5: a tailoff to almost a precipitous decline. I recently told someone, 134 00:07:43,996 --> 00:07:45,716 Speaker 5: if you wanted to read about my golf game, it's 135 00:07:45,716 --> 00:07:47,116 Speaker 5: over in the obituary section. 136 00:07:48,116 --> 00:07:50,476 Speaker 1: One of my Yale students had told me that Colin 137 00:07:50,556 --> 00:07:53,596 Speaker 1: was an expert on the yips. I assumed his expertise 138 00:07:53,676 --> 00:07:56,676 Speaker 1: came from coaching so many amazing young golfers. But as 139 00:07:56,676 --> 00:08:01,036 Speaker 1: Colin continued, I realized the truth. Colin knew about the 140 00:08:01,116 --> 00:08:05,396 Speaker 1: yips because he had him and once you've had him, well, 141 00:08:06,476 --> 00:08:09,116 Speaker 1: the crazy thing was that Colin was now confessing all 142 00:08:09,196 --> 00:08:11,476 Speaker 1: all this to me in front of a live mic. 143 00:08:11,876 --> 00:08:14,116 Speaker 5: You get to a point where you wonder, like, why me, 144 00:08:14,476 --> 00:08:16,676 Speaker 5: What did I do? I thought I was a good person. 145 00:08:17,676 --> 00:08:21,276 Speaker 5: What did the golfing gods? Why did they pick me? 146 00:08:21,316 --> 00:08:22,676 Speaker 5: And I didn't grow up Catholic. 147 00:08:26,396 --> 00:08:27,196 Speaker 2: Everybody out there. 148 00:08:27,236 --> 00:08:30,236 Speaker 1: It's true Colin hadn't really spoken about his struggle with 149 00:08:30,276 --> 00:08:33,436 Speaker 1: the yips to anyone by his wife, and that's common 150 00:08:33,476 --> 00:08:36,716 Speaker 1: for golfers because when you've got them, you also want 151 00:08:36,716 --> 00:08:39,236 Speaker 1: to hide them, which makes the yips a form of 152 00:08:39,276 --> 00:08:43,196 Speaker 1: thought suppression overload. Not only are you trying to suppress 153 00:08:43,196 --> 00:08:45,596 Speaker 1: your thoughts about what not to do on the golf course, 154 00:08:46,076 --> 00:08:49,356 Speaker 1: which is bad cognitively, but you're also trying to hide 155 00:08:49,356 --> 00:08:53,196 Speaker 1: that you have this shameful condition from everyone around you. 156 00:08:53,196 --> 00:08:56,236 Speaker 1: You don't want people to learn your dirty secret. Colin 157 00:08:56,356 --> 00:08:58,836 Speaker 1: even admitted that his wife had pulled him aside before 158 00:08:58,836 --> 00:09:00,996 Speaker 1: he came to the interview. She asked him if he 159 00:09:01,076 --> 00:09:03,036 Speaker 1: was sure that he wanted to talk about the awful 160 00:09:03,156 --> 00:09:05,996 Speaker 1: y word on my podcast, whether he wanted to admit 161 00:09:06,036 --> 00:09:09,356 Speaker 1: it so publicly. Would his career suffer if ever everyone 162 00:09:09,396 --> 00:09:13,396 Speaker 1: knew about it. In the end, Colin decided it was 163 00:09:13,516 --> 00:09:15,436 Speaker 1: finally time to confess, and. 164 00:09:15,356 --> 00:09:17,836 Speaker 5: Maybe there needs to be an opportunity for golfers to 165 00:09:17,836 --> 00:09:20,996 Speaker 5: come out about it. I guess I'm doing it right now. 166 00:09:21,156 --> 00:09:23,076 Speaker 2: Well, so it's been sort of a part of the. 167 00:09:23,076 --> 00:09:26,396 Speaker 5: Stress that I've had is that if we're being honest. 168 00:09:26,516 --> 00:09:28,516 Speaker 5: I feel like this is a great place to do it. 169 00:09:28,956 --> 00:09:30,356 Speaker 5: In some ways, it should just be like on the 170 00:09:30,356 --> 00:09:32,476 Speaker 5: first t I should just introduce myself and be like, 171 00:09:32,476 --> 00:09:34,076 Speaker 5: all right, just let me preface this by saying you 172 00:09:34,116 --> 00:09:36,476 Speaker 5: might see some horrendously bad shots out of me, and 173 00:09:36,516 --> 00:09:40,196 Speaker 5: maybe that would that would that might help. 174 00:09:40,676 --> 00:09:43,196 Speaker 1: I can't stress enough how big a sporting taboo Colin 175 00:09:43,276 --> 00:09:46,436 Speaker 1: has broken by talking so openly about suffering from the yips. 176 00:09:47,116 --> 00:09:49,836 Speaker 1: In the golfing world, bring up the subject, it just 177 00:09:49,956 --> 00:09:50,596 Speaker 1: isn't done. 178 00:09:50,836 --> 00:09:53,156 Speaker 5: One way that the yips are perceived is that it's 179 00:09:53,276 --> 00:09:54,596 Speaker 5: it's because you're mentally weak. 180 00:09:55,076 --> 00:09:57,636 Speaker 1: Players often think the yips can be overcome by just 181 00:09:57,676 --> 00:10:01,356 Speaker 1: working harder to suppress them. Just tell yourself more sternly 182 00:10:01,556 --> 00:10:04,716 Speaker 1: not to lose control of your grip on the club. Mentally, 183 00:10:04,796 --> 00:10:08,236 Speaker 1: keep telling yourself not to make a bad shot. Golfers 184 00:10:08,236 --> 00:10:11,036 Speaker 1: don't take kindly to the suggestion that all this mental 185 00:10:11,036 --> 00:10:14,276 Speaker 1: pressure won't help them beat the yips, so everyone ends 186 00:10:14,316 --> 00:10:17,836 Speaker 1: up suffering and keeping it a huge secret, which makes 187 00:10:17,876 --> 00:10:20,676 Speaker 1: the next story Colin told me all the more unexpected. 188 00:10:21,276 --> 00:10:24,196 Speaker 1: You see, back when he was a young golfer, Colin 189 00:10:24,236 --> 00:10:25,476 Speaker 1: had a chance to meet his hero. 190 00:10:25,876 --> 00:10:28,996 Speaker 5: I was working for the Golfer magazine just six months 191 00:10:28,996 --> 00:10:31,436 Speaker 5: in my very first assignment to interview a pro was 192 00:10:31,436 --> 00:10:34,596 Speaker 5: Bernard Langer, the Rye Hilton, and I'm twenty two years 193 00:10:34,636 --> 00:10:38,316 Speaker 5: old and there's Bernard Langer, like two time Masters champion, 194 00:10:38,396 --> 00:10:40,796 Speaker 5: waiting for me in the lobby. And I left an 195 00:10:40,796 --> 00:10:43,156 Speaker 5: hour early and I was still late, and of course 196 00:10:43,196 --> 00:10:45,676 Speaker 5: he's on time, and he was gracious to me, and 197 00:10:45,716 --> 00:10:49,076 Speaker 5: we sat down. We start the interview and it's going wonderfully, 198 00:10:49,116 --> 00:10:53,156 Speaker 5: and he's cranking out answers and I'm sliding follow ups 199 00:10:53,156 --> 00:10:54,276 Speaker 5: and it's going wonderful. 200 00:10:54,476 --> 00:10:56,956 Speaker 1: That was when Colin made a huge faux pas in 201 00:10:56,996 --> 00:10:59,316 Speaker 1: front of the greatest player on the planet. 202 00:10:59,476 --> 00:11:02,196 Speaker 5: I felt like I sort of had a moment where 203 00:11:02,196 --> 00:11:03,596 Speaker 5: I could ask him about his yips. 204 00:11:03,836 --> 00:11:06,676 Speaker 1: A typical golfer might have walked out of the interview 205 00:11:06,756 --> 00:11:11,076 Speaker 1: right there, but Colin's hero wasn't the usual golfer, and he. 206 00:11:11,036 --> 00:11:13,396 Speaker 5: Just goes into this answer. In nineteen seventy nine, I 207 00:11:13,436 --> 00:11:14,836 Speaker 5: had my first bout to the yips, and then in 208 00:11:14,916 --> 00:11:15,796 Speaker 5: nineteen eighty two. 209 00:11:16,356 --> 00:11:16,996 Speaker 2: And he did it. 210 00:11:17,036 --> 00:11:19,916 Speaker 5: He did it perfectly, and so I realized, now in hindsight, 211 00:11:20,556 --> 00:11:24,476 Speaker 5: there he was doing the opposite of trying to obscure 212 00:11:24,516 --> 00:11:26,316 Speaker 5: the fact that he had it, and it only paid 213 00:11:26,316 --> 00:11:29,476 Speaker 5: dividends for him throughout his life. He was forty three 214 00:11:29,516 --> 00:11:32,316 Speaker 5: at the time, and he just continued a meteoric. 215 00:11:31,996 --> 00:11:34,516 Speaker 1: Cries just by disclosing, just some twenty two. 216 00:11:34,396 --> 00:11:36,716 Speaker 2: Year old kid, it can't hurt, it can't hurt. He wasn't. 217 00:11:36,756 --> 00:11:41,436 Speaker 5: He clearly didn't have a problem acknowledging it admitting it. 218 00:11:42,036 --> 00:11:44,276 Speaker 5: And I think perhaps there's a lesson there. 219 00:11:45,516 --> 00:11:48,436 Speaker 1: Collin's right, there is a lesson here, one that's really 220 00:11:48,516 --> 00:11:52,436 Speaker 1: important scientifically. Langer was one of the few golfers who 221 00:11:52,476 --> 00:11:55,676 Speaker 1: was willing to speak openly about his yips, and that 222 00:11:55,756 --> 00:11:58,516 Speaker 1: meant that his mind didn't have to harbor a shameful secret. 223 00:11:58,996 --> 00:12:01,476 Speaker 1: It didn't have to work really hard to keep the 224 00:12:01,556 --> 00:12:04,636 Speaker 1: dreaded y word hush hush, And that meant that Langer's 225 00:12:04,636 --> 00:12:07,316 Speaker 1: mind could relax a bit. His brain didn't have to 226 00:12:07,316 --> 00:12:10,156 Speaker 1: put so much effort and to keep all those unwonted 227 00:12:10,196 --> 00:12:13,436 Speaker 1: thoughts concealed. Because his yipscat was finally out of the 228 00:12:13,476 --> 00:12:16,636 Speaker 1: golf bag, so to speak. And what was the result, 229 00:12:17,356 --> 00:12:20,236 Speaker 1: Langer had a lot more mental energy left for doing 230 00:12:20,276 --> 00:12:24,836 Speaker 1: what professional golfers need to do, namely, play golf. Langer 231 00:12:24,956 --> 00:12:27,596 Speaker 1: was able to develop new techniques to improve his game 232 00:12:27,916 --> 00:12:31,036 Speaker 1: because he had finally freed his mind. He had let 233 00:12:31,076 --> 00:12:34,996 Speaker 1: go of all those ironic processes, and his golf game 234 00:12:35,196 --> 00:12:40,716 Speaker 1: skyrocketed yet again. Coming up, we'll hear just how powerful 235 00:12:40,716 --> 00:12:43,836 Speaker 1: that release can be, not just for bad golf games, 236 00:12:44,116 --> 00:12:45,556 Speaker 1: but for life changing events. 237 00:12:45,876 --> 00:12:49,236 Speaker 6: Here was this big secret they've been keeping their whole lives, 238 00:12:49,756 --> 00:12:52,916 Speaker 6: and here was this opportunity for them to organize the 239 00:12:52,996 --> 00:12:56,116 Speaker 6: experience and to put it into words in a way 240 00:12:56,156 --> 00:12:57,436 Speaker 6: that they'd never done before. 241 00:12:57,796 --> 00:12:59,876 Speaker 1: The Happiness Lab will be right back. 242 00:13:06,916 --> 00:13:13,476 Speaker 7: Criminal pace for deep sixty one tourney General against Adolf, 243 00:13:13,996 --> 00:13:17,276 Speaker 7: the son of Adolf Karl Eichmann, aged fifty four. 244 00:13:18,356 --> 00:13:21,436 Speaker 1: Historians argue that it took the world nearly twenty years 245 00:13:21,476 --> 00:13:24,116 Speaker 1: to appreciate the true horror of the Holocaust. 246 00:13:25,116 --> 00:13:30,116 Speaker 4: First count venture over fence climb against the Jewish people 247 00:13:30,676 --> 00:13:33,956 Speaker 4: and a fence under section one oh one of the 248 00:13:34,036 --> 00:13:35,716 Speaker 4: Nazis and Nazi collaborators. 249 00:13:35,996 --> 00:13:39,836 Speaker 1: It's April eleventh, nineteen sixty one, and Adolf Eikman has 250 00:13:39,996 --> 00:13:45,716 Speaker 1: just entered his bulletproof dock at a special tribunal in Jerusalem, fence. 251 00:13:46,036 --> 00:13:49,316 Speaker 1: Eikmann was facing fifteen indictments for his role in sending 252 00:13:49,356 --> 00:13:53,396 Speaker 1: millions of Jews to their deaths. Nazi war criminals had 253 00:13:53,436 --> 00:13:57,756 Speaker 1: been publicly tried before, but this time was different. This time, 254 00:13:58,196 --> 00:14:01,556 Speaker 1: television cameras were beaming the story to every corner of 255 00:14:01,596 --> 00:14:04,836 Speaker 1: the globe, and this time Jews who had seen and 256 00:14:04,916 --> 00:14:07,596 Speaker 1: survived the genocide were ready to take the stand. 257 00:14:07,716 --> 00:14:11,436 Speaker 7: President, of course, please quiet in the courtroom. Do you 258 00:14:11,436 --> 00:14:12,356 Speaker 7: speak Hebrews? Sir? 259 00:14:13,276 --> 00:14:13,596 Speaker 4: Yes? 260 00:14:13,676 --> 00:14:15,396 Speaker 8: Please place the skull cap. 261 00:14:15,276 --> 00:14:15,956 Speaker 4: On your head. 262 00:14:16,276 --> 00:14:19,476 Speaker 1: Many of the witnesses had never spoken publicly about the 263 00:14:19,476 --> 00:14:20,956 Speaker 1: horrific cruelty they'd endured. 264 00:14:22,356 --> 00:14:27,356 Speaker 8: That was my younger sister, and she wanted to live, 265 00:14:27,516 --> 00:14:28,556 Speaker 8: she prayed with the. 266 00:14:28,556 --> 00:14:33,236 Speaker 1: German police interrogator, Michael Goldman. Gallod had helped build the 267 00:14:33,276 --> 00:14:36,876 Speaker 1: case against Eikman. His own parents and sister had been 268 00:14:36,956 --> 00:14:40,356 Speaker 1: murdered by the Nazis, but like other Holocaust survivors at 269 00:14:40,356 --> 00:14:44,396 Speaker 1: that time, Michael had never spoken of his ordeal, assuming 270 00:14:44,836 --> 00:14:48,316 Speaker 1: no one would trust his account. It was impossible to believe, 271 00:14:48,436 --> 00:14:50,836 Speaker 1: he had said, because it was so horrible. 272 00:14:51,316 --> 00:14:55,916 Speaker 8: She asked to run naked. She went up to the 273 00:14:56,036 --> 00:15:00,236 Speaker 8: German with one of her friends. They were embracing each other, 274 00:15:00,356 --> 00:15:06,436 Speaker 8: and she asked to be spared. Standing there naked, looked 275 00:15:06,476 --> 00:15:09,436 Speaker 8: into her eyes and chopped the two of them. They 276 00:15:09,476 --> 00:15:12,276 Speaker 8: fell together in their embrace. 277 00:15:13,516 --> 00:15:17,516 Speaker 1: Michael had bottled up his experiences for twenty years. After 278 00:15:17,596 --> 00:15:20,836 Speaker 1: listening to hour after hour of awful memories pouring from 279 00:15:20,836 --> 00:15:24,916 Speaker 1: his fellow survivors, he realized that the trial had become 280 00:15:24,996 --> 00:15:29,996 Speaker 1: a watershed historical moment. The Eikman trial, he said, opened 281 00:15:29,996 --> 00:15:34,236 Speaker 1: our mouths again. But unlike those who'd take in a 282 00:15:34,236 --> 00:15:37,916 Speaker 1: stand against Aikman, many Holocaust survivors still felt they had 283 00:15:37,956 --> 00:15:40,396 Speaker 1: no acceptable way to share their stories. 284 00:15:40,876 --> 00:15:44,156 Speaker 6: You know, it's hard to talk to your neighbor saying, oh, 285 00:15:44,236 --> 00:15:46,676 Speaker 6: did I tell you all about my Holocaust experiences? They 286 00:15:46,756 --> 00:15:48,676 Speaker 6: learned nobody wanted to hear about it because it was 287 00:15:48,756 --> 00:15:49,676 Speaker 6: just too threatening. 288 00:15:50,276 --> 00:15:53,236 Speaker 1: Jamie Pennebaker is a professor of psychology at U T 289 00:15:53,396 --> 00:15:57,076 Speaker 1: Austin and an expert on the power of expressing our emotions. 290 00:15:57,596 --> 00:16:00,916 Speaker 1: By the mid nineteen eighties, many Holocaust victims had kept 291 00:16:00,956 --> 00:16:05,716 Speaker 1: silent about their experiences for four whole decades. Jamie wondered 292 00:16:05,716 --> 00:16:08,436 Speaker 1: what told this had taken on them, and what benefits 293 00:16:08,476 --> 00:16:12,236 Speaker 1: they might receive by sharing their stories instead of suppressing them. 294 00:16:12,876 --> 00:16:16,436 Speaker 1: He joined a project that invited survivors to give videotape 295 00:16:16,516 --> 00:16:19,236 Speaker 1: testimony of what they had endured at the hands of 296 00:16:19,276 --> 00:16:19,916 Speaker 1: the Nazis. 297 00:16:20,236 --> 00:16:23,396 Speaker 6: And here is this opportunity for them to organize the 298 00:16:23,476 --> 00:16:26,596 Speaker 6: experience and to put it into words in a way 299 00:16:26,596 --> 00:16:30,076 Speaker 6: that they'd never done before. And they came in. They 300 00:16:30,076 --> 00:16:33,636 Speaker 6: were interviewed on camera, and the average interview was about 301 00:16:33,636 --> 00:16:35,236 Speaker 6: an hour and a half. 302 00:16:35,556 --> 00:16:38,356 Speaker 1: The films of the interviews Jamie conducted are captain a 303 00:16:38,396 --> 00:16:42,796 Speaker 1: university archive here at Yale. I arranged to see some 304 00:16:42,916 --> 00:16:46,276 Speaker 1: of them. It was tougher to hear than even I expected. 305 00:16:47,076 --> 00:16:49,956 Speaker 6: Okay, to begin with, could you tell us your name, 306 00:16:50,116 --> 00:16:51,756 Speaker 6: your maiden name where you're from. 307 00:16:51,796 --> 00:16:56,556 Speaker 9: My name is Rosalie Schaeff. I was born in Kirkol, Poland, 308 00:16:57,876 --> 00:17:00,036 Speaker 9: and I am a Holocaust survivor. 309 00:17:00,876 --> 00:17:04,956 Speaker 1: Jamie asks Rosalie about the appalling things she endured, first 310 00:17:05,036 --> 00:17:08,236 Speaker 1: in the ghetto and then in the camp. I'm struck 311 00:17:08,276 --> 00:17:11,276 Speaker 1: time and again by just how determined Rosalie has been 312 00:17:11,796 --> 00:17:13,276 Speaker 1: to suppress the details. 313 00:17:13,436 --> 00:17:16,796 Speaker 9: I tried so hard to push the memories away. 314 00:17:17,476 --> 00:17:19,756 Speaker 6: Do you think you're pretty successful at putting it away 315 00:17:19,796 --> 00:17:20,556 Speaker 6: out of your mind? 316 00:17:21,316 --> 00:17:25,076 Speaker 9: Pending you get through. I'm fighting with myself. It's not 317 00:17:25,196 --> 00:17:28,516 Speaker 9: good to store something like this and not to bring 318 00:17:28,596 --> 00:17:29,036 Speaker 9: it out. 319 00:17:29,556 --> 00:17:34,036 Speaker 1: For nearly two hours, Rosalie patiently answers question after question, 320 00:17:34,956 --> 00:17:39,516 Speaker 1: occasionally wiping away tears. Having suppressed her memories for decades, 321 00:17:39,956 --> 00:17:43,556 Speaker 1: she finally opens up to recount horrors which seemed almost 322 00:17:43,676 --> 00:17:44,636 Speaker 1: unimaginable to me. 323 00:17:45,676 --> 00:17:50,636 Speaker 9: Who were covered with lice, who were beaten. We had 324 00:17:50,676 --> 00:17:56,116 Speaker 9: to stay in the camp undressed completely like animals, and 325 00:17:56,196 --> 00:17:58,796 Speaker 9: they should every minute somebody else. 326 00:17:59,316 --> 00:18:02,836 Speaker 1: It was an incredibly hard video to watch. Every act 327 00:18:02,876 --> 00:18:06,316 Speaker 1: of violence perpetrated by the Nazis is more depraved and 328 00:18:06,356 --> 00:18:10,156 Speaker 1: distressing than the last. At one point, Rose describes watching 329 00:18:10,236 --> 00:18:14,196 Speaker 1: the SS slaughter an entire orphanage of Jewish children, and 330 00:18:14,276 --> 00:18:17,636 Speaker 1: a frenzied massacre that left the street outside a washed 331 00:18:17,636 --> 00:18:18,196 Speaker 1: with blood. 332 00:18:18,676 --> 00:18:19,756 Speaker 9: It was very hot. 333 00:18:21,196 --> 00:18:26,876 Speaker 6: About done. An outstanding job. You really, I'm really proud of. 334 00:18:27,996 --> 00:18:30,476 Speaker 1: I won't play you the worst parts of rose Lea's testimony. 335 00:18:31,116 --> 00:18:33,436 Speaker 1: I had to stop the tape several times and just 336 00:18:33,596 --> 00:18:36,516 Speaker 1: get up and go for a walk, but Jamie had 337 00:18:36,596 --> 00:18:38,476 Speaker 1: to listen in real time. 338 00:18:39,076 --> 00:18:43,876 Speaker 6: It was the most moving experience in my life. It's 339 00:18:43,956 --> 00:18:46,836 Speaker 6: hard to put into words, I had no clin I'm 340 00:18:46,876 --> 00:18:55,156 Speaker 6: not a clinical psychologist, and hearing these stories was really 341 00:18:55,236 --> 00:18:57,596 Speaker 6: hard on me, and it was almost as though it 342 00:18:57,636 --> 00:19:01,436 Speaker 6: was a traumatic experience for me. And just seeing the 343 00:19:01,636 --> 00:19:06,076 Speaker 6: depths of the horrors that these people had endured, you know, 344 00:19:06,116 --> 00:19:08,276 Speaker 6: I had nightmares. I was now, all of a sudden, 345 00:19:08,276 --> 00:19:09,916 Speaker 6: a victim of my own research. 346 00:19:10,836 --> 00:19:13,516 Speaker 1: But completing the interviews was only the first part of 347 00:19:13,596 --> 00:19:16,716 Speaker 1: Jamie's work. Jamie wanted to know of the process of 348 00:19:16,756 --> 00:19:20,116 Speaker 1: sharing memories would have an impact on their survivors, whose 349 00:19:20,156 --> 00:19:23,716 Speaker 1: lifelong mental strategy had been to timp down those thoughts 350 00:19:23,956 --> 00:19:24,876 Speaker 1: and lock them away. 351 00:19:25,316 --> 00:19:28,516 Speaker 6: What we found was the experience had this profound effect 352 00:19:28,556 --> 00:19:31,156 Speaker 6: on them. A lot of them were self reports in 353 00:19:31,236 --> 00:19:34,196 Speaker 6: terms of kind of a greater sense of well being 354 00:19:34,236 --> 00:19:37,636 Speaker 6: and happiness, and also we had some health markers that 355 00:19:37,916 --> 00:19:39,596 Speaker 6: showed improvements as well. 356 00:19:40,356 --> 00:19:45,596 Speaker 1: Immediately after telling these awful stories, survivors felt better, and 357 00:19:45,676 --> 00:19:48,796 Speaker 1: survivors who shared the most traumatic memories were the ones 358 00:19:48,836 --> 00:19:51,876 Speaker 1: who reported feeling the best. They had the lowest heart 359 00:19:51,956 --> 00:19:56,236 Speaker 1: rates and the lowest levels of emotional anguish. Talking about 360 00:19:56,236 --> 00:20:01,036 Speaker 1: the worst possible things they'd ever experienced made survivors feel 361 00:20:01,196 --> 00:20:05,996 Speaker 1: calmer and happier. But Jamie's results were even more amazing 362 00:20:06,036 --> 00:20:11,156 Speaker 1: than that. One year after the interviews, Jamie contacted survivors. 363 00:20:11,476 --> 00:20:14,516 Speaker 1: He asked, how are you feeling and have you been 364 00:20:14,516 --> 00:20:18,236 Speaker 1: to the doctor recently. He found that survivors who disclosed 365 00:20:18,276 --> 00:20:22,076 Speaker 1: lots of details in their interviews were healthier. People who 366 00:20:22,076 --> 00:20:25,156 Speaker 1: evaded talking deeply about their traumas went to the doctor 367 00:20:25,196 --> 00:20:29,196 Speaker 1: almost twice as often. It seemed that getting those awful 368 00:20:29,196 --> 00:20:32,956 Speaker 1: secrets out in the open made survivors less sick even 369 00:20:32,996 --> 00:20:34,556 Speaker 1: a full twelve months later. 370 00:20:34,836 --> 00:20:38,236 Speaker 6: It was hard to do a really controlled experiment because 371 00:20:38,236 --> 00:20:41,276 Speaker 6: we didn't have another group of Holocaust survivors who did 372 00:20:41,316 --> 00:20:44,956 Speaker 6: not come into the studio. So as a control study 373 00:20:45,036 --> 00:20:49,956 Speaker 6: it wasn't that impressive, But as a case study it 374 00:20:50,036 --> 00:20:54,316 Speaker 6: was a profound Really was a profound experience. I've become 375 00:20:54,676 --> 00:20:58,716 Speaker 6: intrigued with this notion that if you have something that's 376 00:20:58,836 --> 00:21:02,636 Speaker 6: bad and you don't want to talk about it, you 377 00:21:02,836 --> 00:21:05,476 Speaker 6: probably should think about talking about it, or at least 378 00:21:05,516 --> 00:21:06,436 Speaker 6: writing about it. 379 00:21:06,636 --> 00:21:10,156 Speaker 1: After his own tough experience with Holocaust survivors, Jamie set 380 00:21:10,196 --> 00:21:13,676 Speaker 1: out on paper how upsetting and unsettling he'd found the interviews. 381 00:21:14,276 --> 00:21:17,156 Speaker 1: He found the writing process so helpful, he decided to 382 00:21:17,196 --> 00:21:19,636 Speaker 1: test the effects of sharing bad memories in a more 383 00:21:19,676 --> 00:21:20,316 Speaker 1: controlled way. 384 00:21:20,756 --> 00:21:23,396 Speaker 6: So I thought, well, we just get random college students 385 00:21:23,436 --> 00:21:26,316 Speaker 6: who are taking introductory psychology, bring them into the lab. 386 00:21:26,756 --> 00:21:30,516 Speaker 6: They either wrote about superficial topics or about traumatic experiences 387 00:21:30,556 --> 00:21:34,396 Speaker 6: for four consecutive days. And those people who wrote about 388 00:21:34,396 --> 00:21:38,356 Speaker 6: these traumatic experiences, it was a profound experience. And they 389 00:21:38,356 --> 00:21:42,276 Speaker 6: wrote about things that anybody would agree was a traumatic experience. 390 00:21:42,876 --> 00:21:46,636 Speaker 6: They weren't kind of the classic thing. Some were these 391 00:21:46,716 --> 00:21:53,076 Speaker 6: huge humiliations, things that sounded superficial, death of a person's dog. 392 00:21:53,316 --> 00:21:58,196 Speaker 6: I remember, and every night I would go and read 393 00:21:58,516 --> 00:22:01,236 Speaker 6: all of these stories, and they blew me away. 394 00:22:02,036 --> 00:22:04,796 Speaker 1: Both sets of students, the ones who'd written the stories 395 00:22:04,796 --> 00:22:07,236 Speaker 1: that had so moved Jamie and the group who just 396 00:22:07,276 --> 00:22:10,596 Speaker 1: set down more mundane thoughts, rended permission for their medical 397 00:22:10,636 --> 00:22:12,876 Speaker 1: records to be tracked for six months. 398 00:22:12,636 --> 00:22:15,516 Speaker 6: And those in the experimental group, those who wrote about traumas, 399 00:22:15,596 --> 00:22:17,356 Speaker 6: ended up going to the doctor at about half the 400 00:22:17,476 --> 00:22:20,796 Speaker 6: rate as people in the control conditions. When people were 401 00:22:20,796 --> 00:22:24,196 Speaker 6: asked to write about a deeply troubling traumatic experience or 402 00:22:24,276 --> 00:22:27,036 Speaker 6: upsetting experience that they hadn't talked to other people about. 403 00:22:27,156 --> 00:22:30,356 Speaker 6: It was associated with better physical health that people went 404 00:22:30,356 --> 00:22:33,796 Speaker 6: to the doctor last, their immune system got better, something 405 00:22:33,836 --> 00:22:37,476 Speaker 6: that has always stuck with me. I remember in the 406 00:22:37,516 --> 00:22:40,276 Speaker 6: months afterwards. Has happened. At least a couple of times 407 00:22:40,716 --> 00:22:43,516 Speaker 6: a student would come up and said, you don't know me, 408 00:22:43,596 --> 00:22:46,316 Speaker 6: but I was in your experiment on writing, and that 409 00:22:46,476 --> 00:22:48,196 Speaker 6: changed my life. 410 00:22:48,236 --> 00:22:51,756 Speaker 1: Since Jamie's initial research back in the nineteen eighties, many 411 00:22:51,796 --> 00:22:55,156 Speaker 1: scientists have seen the same effects of setting traumatic memories 412 00:22:55,316 --> 00:22:56,076 Speaker 1: down on paper. 413 00:22:56,556 --> 00:22:59,036 Speaker 6: There are easily one or two thousand studies that have 414 00:22:59,116 --> 00:23:02,876 Speaker 6: been done since then. Across these studies, it's been associated 415 00:23:02,916 --> 00:23:06,876 Speaker 6: with reductions and symptoms of depression and post traumatic stress disorder. 416 00:23:06,916 --> 00:23:11,996 Speaker 6: It's been associated with people well, performing better on creative tasks, 417 00:23:12,036 --> 00:23:17,516 Speaker 6: doing better on standardized tests like SATs or MCATs. They're 418 00:23:17,796 --> 00:23:23,516 Speaker 6: mentally healthier, and the biological markers have been quite impressive 419 00:23:23,556 --> 00:23:26,796 Speaker 6: in terms of changes in terms of improvements and symptoms 420 00:23:26,836 --> 00:23:31,636 Speaker 6: of arthritis and immune disorders and cardiovascular changes and so forth. 421 00:23:32,156 --> 00:23:34,356 Speaker 1: We often tell ourselves not to think about events in 422 00:23:34,396 --> 00:23:36,956 Speaker 1: our lives that are painful. We think dwelling on that 423 00:23:37,036 --> 00:23:39,956 Speaker 1: stuff is not good, and so we squash those bad 424 00:23:39,996 --> 00:23:43,836 Speaker 1: memories down. But the science of ironic processes shows why 425 00:23:43,876 --> 00:23:46,836 Speaker 1: that's a bad idea. It takes work for us to 426 00:23:46,876 --> 00:23:50,756 Speaker 1: repress those bad thoughts, and that cognitive work winds up 427 00:23:50,796 --> 00:23:53,756 Speaker 1: affecting things like sleep and blood pressure. And how while 428 00:23:53,796 --> 00:23:57,396 Speaker 1: we can concentrate on a standardized test, letting those bad 429 00:23:57,436 --> 00:24:00,916 Speaker 1: thoughts out and getting them down on paper finally lets 430 00:24:00,916 --> 00:24:04,676 Speaker 1: our tired brains relax. It's like opening our little mental 431 00:24:04,716 --> 00:24:09,716 Speaker 1: pressure cookers to let out some suppressed steam. But there's 432 00:24:09,756 --> 00:24:12,076 Speaker 1: a second reason that writing down our bad memories makes 433 00:24:12,116 --> 00:24:16,236 Speaker 1: us happier. Writing stuff down helps us make sense of things. 434 00:24:16,836 --> 00:24:20,076 Speaker 1: Our brains finally get to process and work through some 435 00:24:20,116 --> 00:24:21,076 Speaker 1: really bad stuff. 436 00:24:21,396 --> 00:24:25,916 Speaker 6: I've always been fascinated how people naturally deal with upsetting experience. 437 00:24:26,236 --> 00:24:28,236 Speaker 6: You know you're almost in a car wreck. You come home, 438 00:24:28,316 --> 00:24:30,916 Speaker 6: you tell your spouse, your friend, Oh my god, we're 439 00:24:30,916 --> 00:24:34,356 Speaker 6: not going to believe what happened. By putting an upsetting 440 00:24:34,396 --> 00:24:39,556 Speaker 6: experience into words, it forces structure, It forces an organization. 441 00:24:40,076 --> 00:24:44,076 Speaker 6: There's a beginning, middle, and end. It's not blowing off steam. 442 00:24:44,116 --> 00:24:47,876 Speaker 6: It's not some kind of venting or the way many 443 00:24:47,876 --> 00:24:52,596 Speaker 6: people think about catharsis. Instead, you are coming to understand 444 00:24:52,796 --> 00:24:54,636 Speaker 6: the event, and also yourself better. 445 00:24:55,476 --> 00:24:59,356 Speaker 1: Writing about your painful emotions can help you organize those experiences. 446 00:24:59,796 --> 00:25:01,716 Speaker 1: You finally have a chance to make sense of them 447 00:25:01,836 --> 00:25:04,716 Speaker 1: because they're not bottled up anymore. And once you make 448 00:25:04,796 --> 00:25:08,836 Speaker 1: sense of upsetting experiences, you finally get enough perspective to 449 00:25:08,876 --> 00:25:09,796 Speaker 1: grow from them. 450 00:25:09,956 --> 00:25:12,796 Speaker 6: And this is something that I find interesting about adversity 451 00:25:12,836 --> 00:25:19,636 Speaker 6: that very often adversity having a thing that negative certainly sucks, 452 00:25:20,956 --> 00:25:24,276 Speaker 6: but by the same token, it has the potential to 453 00:25:24,436 --> 00:25:27,516 Speaker 6: be healing and to make us rethink ourselves and rethink 454 00:25:27,556 --> 00:25:28,196 Speaker 6: our lives. 455 00:25:30,076 --> 00:25:33,036 Speaker 1: Having watched that film of Rosie's shift breaking her decades 456 00:25:33,076 --> 00:25:35,956 Speaker 1: long silence about the Holocaust, I found it hard to 457 00:25:35,956 --> 00:25:38,396 Speaker 1: put her out of my mind. I decided to track 458 00:25:38,396 --> 00:25:41,236 Speaker 1: her down. It turns out she passed away just a 459 00:25:41,276 --> 00:25:44,916 Speaker 1: couple of years ago at age ninety one. But as 460 00:25:44,916 --> 00:25:47,836 Speaker 1: I read her many obituaries, I was struck by something. 461 00:25:48,716 --> 00:25:52,676 Speaker 1: Rosalie devoted her final years to telling and retelling her 462 00:25:52,756 --> 00:25:55,716 Speaker 1: terrible story. She even helped to write a book about 463 00:25:55,756 --> 00:26:00,076 Speaker 1: her experiences. She and her husband told reporters, quote, we 464 00:26:00,236 --> 00:26:03,796 Speaker 1: have to talk about it. Rosalie had tapped into an 465 00:26:03,796 --> 00:26:08,516 Speaker 1: important psychological truth. Putting painful memories into words can give 466 00:26:08,596 --> 00:26:11,476 Speaker 1: us the perspect if we need to grow from those events, 467 00:26:11,876 --> 00:26:15,356 Speaker 1: whether those events happened yesterday or even fifty years ago. 468 00:26:16,396 --> 00:26:18,396 Speaker 1: But what if there was a way to process those 469 00:26:18,436 --> 00:26:21,956 Speaker 1: painful events while they were actually happening. What if we 470 00:26:21,996 --> 00:26:24,396 Speaker 1: didn't have to shove the tough stuff into some mental 471 00:26:24,436 --> 00:26:26,756 Speaker 1: memory bank and marshal the courage to deal with it 472 00:26:26,796 --> 00:26:29,156 Speaker 1: all later. What if we could just work through the 473 00:26:29,196 --> 00:26:33,596 Speaker 1: pain immediately, Just feel all those bad emotions in the 474 00:26:33,636 --> 00:26:37,716 Speaker 1: moment and accept them. This might sound like some Zen 475 00:26:37,796 --> 00:26:41,636 Speaker 1: Jedi master stuff, but research shows this radical approach to 476 00:26:41,716 --> 00:26:45,276 Speaker 1: negative emotions is possible for every one of us. 477 00:26:45,636 --> 00:26:48,036 Speaker 3: The Dalai Lama simply said to us, if we can 478 00:26:48,076 --> 00:26:52,476 Speaker 3: all sustain a calm mind, any emotion can arise and 479 00:26:52,636 --> 00:26:55,636 Speaker 3: fall and not be destructive or hurtful. 480 00:26:56,116 --> 00:26:57,996 Speaker 1: The happiness lab will be right back. 481 00:27:09,476 --> 00:27:11,196 Speaker 3: I'm never going to get rid of emotions, but I 482 00:27:11,196 --> 00:27:14,076 Speaker 3: think I've gotten better at my recovery. Can I return 483 00:27:14,116 --> 00:27:17,436 Speaker 3: back to a calm mind a little quicker? I would 484 00:27:17,476 --> 00:27:17,876 Speaker 3: say yes. 485 00:27:18,716 --> 00:27:21,396 Speaker 1: Eve Eckman is the director of Training at the Greater 486 00:27:21,476 --> 00:27:25,076 Speaker 1: Good Science Center at UC Berkeley. She's an expert on 487 00:27:25,116 --> 00:27:27,596 Speaker 1: how people feel their emotions in the moment and can 488 00:27:27,636 --> 00:27:28,476 Speaker 1: tackle them head on. 489 00:27:28,796 --> 00:27:31,716 Speaker 3: I remember very well a friend and colleague of mine 490 00:27:31,876 --> 00:27:34,836 Speaker 3: in the UK, and her mother said to me, it 491 00:27:34,956 --> 00:27:38,356 Speaker 3: sounds quite interesting what you do, but why aren't emotions 492 00:27:38,436 --> 00:27:41,356 Speaker 3: just better if we don't talk about them. I think 493 00:27:41,396 --> 00:27:44,356 Speaker 3: most people believe that, but would never say it to me, 494 00:27:45,116 --> 00:27:48,356 Speaker 3: and with that stiff upper lip that we associate with 495 00:27:48,516 --> 00:27:50,996 Speaker 3: people in the UK, I think there is an assumption 496 00:27:51,116 --> 00:27:53,916 Speaker 3: that the more we meddle into our emotions, the more 497 00:27:53,996 --> 00:27:56,316 Speaker 3: trouble we're making. So can't we just leave them as 498 00:27:56,356 --> 00:27:58,876 Speaker 3: they are and hopefully they'll just go away on their own. 499 00:27:59,636 --> 00:28:02,356 Speaker 1: Many people would rather just shut their negative emotions off 500 00:28:02,516 --> 00:28:06,436 Speaker 1: before they happen, but science suggests that might not be possible. 501 00:28:06,716 --> 00:28:09,316 Speaker 3: I think the million dollar question that everybody wants the 502 00:28:09,356 --> 00:28:11,636 Speaker 3: answer to is how do I stop right in the 503 00:28:11,636 --> 00:28:14,916 Speaker 3: middle of my emotion? And to date I have not 504 00:28:14,996 --> 00:28:16,916 Speaker 3: found anyone who's able to do that. 505 00:28:17,476 --> 00:28:21,396 Speaker 1: And Eve has even studied the best emotional regulators around. 506 00:28:21,916 --> 00:28:24,436 Speaker 3: Even in my work with his Holiness the Dalai Lama, 507 00:28:25,036 --> 00:28:30,236 Speaker 3: he describes the difficulty of feeling angry and responding to anger, 508 00:28:30,876 --> 00:28:33,636 Speaker 3: and he is able to have anger come and go, 509 00:28:34,956 --> 00:28:36,796 Speaker 3: but not to stop it right in the middle. 510 00:28:37,356 --> 00:28:39,796 Speaker 1: None of us can shut off what we're feeling midstream, 511 00:28:40,356 --> 00:28:43,956 Speaker 1: not even the Dali Lama. The problem is most of 512 00:28:44,036 --> 00:28:47,636 Speaker 1: us don't get that. We don't realize it's impossible, and 513 00:28:47,676 --> 00:28:50,036 Speaker 1: so we try really hard to shut off any bad 514 00:28:50,076 --> 00:28:52,996 Speaker 1: feelings we're having in the moment. And what does all 515 00:28:52,996 --> 00:28:57,316 Speaker 1: that suppression do? You guessed it? Ironic processes kick in 516 00:28:57,676 --> 00:29:00,476 Speaker 1: and make all those unpleasant feelings even worse. 517 00:29:00,916 --> 00:29:03,556 Speaker 3: I think what we know from research is when we 518 00:29:03,596 --> 00:29:06,756 Speaker 3: are suppressing our emotions or trying to clamp down on them, 519 00:29:07,156 --> 00:29:09,996 Speaker 3: they actually have a rebound that's even stronger at a 520 00:29:10,036 --> 00:29:14,596 Speaker 3: physiological level, meaning it feels more intensely in our body 521 00:29:14,636 --> 00:29:18,116 Speaker 3: when we're trying to not show what we're experiencing and 522 00:29:18,356 --> 00:29:20,516 Speaker 3: trying to not feel what we're experiencing. 523 00:29:20,956 --> 00:29:22,836 Speaker 1: Let's take a closer look at the science of this 524 00:29:22,876 --> 00:29:26,356 Speaker 1: rebound effect, an effect that researchers have found clever, though 525 00:29:26,396 --> 00:29:31,276 Speaker 1: sometimes disturbing, ways to induce in laboratory settings. The Stanford 526 00:29:31,316 --> 00:29:34,996 Speaker 1: neuroscientist James Gross showed his poor test subjects graphic medical 527 00:29:34,996 --> 00:29:38,836 Speaker 1: footage of a patient's arm being amputated. Some viewers were 528 00:29:38,876 --> 00:29:41,276 Speaker 1: told to suppress what they were feeling and not show 529 00:29:41,316 --> 00:29:44,276 Speaker 1: any outward sides of emotion is the horrific film played. 530 00:29:44,996 --> 00:29:48,276 Speaker 1: What did Gross find? The individuals that tried to follow 531 00:29:48,276 --> 00:29:51,116 Speaker 1: this command were less likely to scrunch up their faces 532 00:29:51,156 --> 00:29:54,956 Speaker 1: in disgust when watching the videos, But Gross also found 533 00:29:55,116 --> 00:29:58,916 Speaker 1: that they showed much larger internal emotional responses than the 534 00:29:58,916 --> 00:30:02,396 Speaker 1: ones who just watched the video normally. Their heart rates spiked, 535 00:30:02,756 --> 00:30:05,236 Speaker 1: they sweated more, and they even showed signs of their 536 00:30:05,236 --> 00:30:08,756 Speaker 1: blood vessels constricting. The act of trying to shut off 537 00:30:08,796 --> 00:30:12,316 Speaker 1: our fel on the outside makes our internal arousal levels 538 00:30:12,396 --> 00:30:16,836 Speaker 1: shoot through the roof. Researchers see similar rebound effects when 539 00:30:16,836 --> 00:30:21,356 Speaker 1: people try to suppress physically painful experiences. In one study, 540 00:30:21,516 --> 00:30:24,156 Speaker 1: subjects were asked to stick their arms in very, very 541 00:30:24,196 --> 00:30:26,756 Speaker 1: cold water for as long as they could take, and 542 00:30:26,836 --> 00:30:29,996 Speaker 1: then write the experience on a scale from zero no 543 00:30:30,116 --> 00:30:34,316 Speaker 1: pain at all to ten maximum agony. One group of 544 00:30:34,356 --> 00:30:38,636 Speaker 1: subjects was told to ignore their pain. What happened, They 545 00:30:38,636 --> 00:30:41,076 Speaker 1: pulled their hands out of the freezing water almost a 546 00:30:41,156 --> 00:30:44,356 Speaker 1: minute before subjects who were just experiencing the pain normally. 547 00:30:45,076 --> 00:30:47,676 Speaker 1: It'd be one thing if these rebound effects happen only 548 00:30:47,676 --> 00:30:51,516 Speaker 1: in weird psych studies that involve creepy videos and painful tasks, 549 00:30:52,236 --> 00:30:54,996 Speaker 1: but researchers have also shown the power of these emotional 550 00:30:55,036 --> 00:30:59,756 Speaker 1: rebounds in everyday situations, like in our family life. Say 551 00:30:59,796 --> 00:31:01,756 Speaker 1: you have a stressful day at work and you come 552 00:31:01,756 --> 00:31:04,236 Speaker 1: home to your family still feeling a little worked up. 553 00:31:05,076 --> 00:31:07,116 Speaker 1: Our minds often tell us it'd be good to shut 554 00:31:07,116 --> 00:31:09,796 Speaker 1: those feelings down to make sure you're spouse and your 555 00:31:09,876 --> 00:31:13,196 Speaker 1: kids don't know what you're feeling. But as researcher Wendy 556 00:31:13,236 --> 00:31:15,996 Speaker 1: Berry Mendez and her colleagues have found out, that's pretty 557 00:31:16,076 --> 00:31:19,956 Speaker 1: much the worst thing we can do. Mendes brought moms, dads, 558 00:31:19,956 --> 00:31:22,996 Speaker 1: and their kids into the lab and had parents simulate 559 00:31:23,116 --> 00:31:25,836 Speaker 1: a typical stressful work event. They had to pitch an 560 00:31:25,836 --> 00:31:29,076 Speaker 1: idea to their boss, who immediately crushes them with some 561 00:31:29,156 --> 00:31:32,836 Speaker 1: withering criticism. The bruised parents were then asked to play 562 00:31:32,916 --> 00:31:36,116 Speaker 1: legos with their kids. Half of the parents were told, 563 00:31:36,356 --> 00:31:38,516 Speaker 1: try to behave in such a way that your child 564 00:31:38,556 --> 00:31:42,636 Speaker 1: doesn't know that you're feeling stressed. What happened those parents 565 00:31:42,756 --> 00:31:45,676 Speaker 1: inadvertently took it out on their kids. They were angrier 566 00:31:45,796 --> 00:31:48,956 Speaker 1: and more upset. They were less responsive to their kids, 567 00:31:49,196 --> 00:31:53,436 Speaker 1: gave them less guidance, and behaved less warmly. Overall, their 568 00:31:53,476 --> 00:31:57,436 Speaker 1: bad mood deteriorated even further when they played with their kids. 569 00:31:58,476 --> 00:32:02,036 Speaker 1: But what's worse, perhaps not surprisingly, is that Mendes found 570 00:32:02,036 --> 00:32:05,236 Speaker 1: the parents rebound effect also took a toll on their kids. 571 00:32:06,076 --> 00:32:08,516 Speaker 1: These kids had less fun and did worse on the 572 00:32:08,596 --> 00:32:12,036 Speaker 1: task just because their parents were trying to hide what 573 00:32:12,076 --> 00:32:12,756 Speaker 1: they were feeling. 574 00:32:13,316 --> 00:32:14,876 Speaker 3: So at the end of a day in which we've 575 00:32:14,916 --> 00:32:20,036 Speaker 3: been suppressing the entire day, we feel emotionally exhausted, drained, 576 00:32:20,036 --> 00:32:24,676 Speaker 3: and depleted. We've been efforting our way away from these emotions. 577 00:32:25,316 --> 00:32:28,196 Speaker 1: Eve thinks that if we just felt the emotions rather 578 00:32:28,236 --> 00:32:30,756 Speaker 1: than trying to suppress them, we might not be as 579 00:32:30,836 --> 00:32:35,956 Speaker 1: burnt out. After all, emotional responses aren't in themselves bad. 580 00:32:36,156 --> 00:32:38,516 Speaker 3: From the psychological point of view. We would not want 581 00:32:38,556 --> 00:32:40,436 Speaker 3: to get rid of emotions. That would be a very 582 00:32:40,556 --> 00:32:43,196 Speaker 3: unsafe world for us to live in. We wouldn't have 583 00:32:43,316 --> 00:32:46,676 Speaker 3: the signal of fear or feel the motivation of frustration 584 00:32:46,876 --> 00:32:49,596 Speaker 3: to change things. Some of our more difficult emotions we'd 585 00:32:49,676 --> 00:32:53,276 Speaker 3: rather avoid can sometimes be, of course, our greatest teachers, 586 00:32:53,756 --> 00:32:55,596 Speaker 3: if we're willing to look at them, and if we 587 00:32:55,676 --> 00:32:57,436 Speaker 3: have the tools to manage them. 588 00:32:57,476 --> 00:32:59,676 Speaker 1: And a first step to managing them seems to be 589 00:32:59,756 --> 00:33:02,356 Speaker 1: to deal with negative emotions as they arise. 590 00:33:02,916 --> 00:33:06,356 Speaker 3: So let's say, for example, yesterday I go into the 591 00:33:06,396 --> 00:33:11,556 Speaker 3: office and I find that my is actually occupied with 592 00:33:11,676 --> 00:33:15,276 Speaker 3: a meeting, and my first experience is a little bit 593 00:33:15,316 --> 00:33:19,236 Speaker 3: of frustration, but I try to avoid that feeling, and 594 00:33:19,276 --> 00:33:22,036 Speaker 3: I instead I am looking for other places to sit 595 00:33:22,556 --> 00:33:24,636 Speaker 3: and do my work, but I'm doing so in this 596 00:33:24,716 --> 00:33:28,596 Speaker 3: kind of pinched, aggravated tight way. And so later on 597 00:33:28,676 --> 00:33:32,156 Speaker 3: that day when I find that maybe the public transportation 598 00:33:32,276 --> 00:33:35,916 Speaker 3: on my way home is late, and I become very upset. 599 00:33:35,956 --> 00:33:38,436 Speaker 3: I can't believe that this train is late, and what's 600 00:33:38,516 --> 00:33:41,316 Speaker 3: wrong with the city. And then I question to myself, 601 00:33:41,316 --> 00:33:44,036 Speaker 3: why am I so upset about this? And maybe I 602 00:33:44,076 --> 00:33:47,076 Speaker 3: can trace back to not having really been with a 603 00:33:47,156 --> 00:33:49,716 Speaker 3: low level of frustration that happened earlier in the day. 604 00:33:50,196 --> 00:33:53,556 Speaker 3: If I could just accept the fact that it wasn't 605 00:33:53,596 --> 00:33:55,636 Speaker 3: the way I wanted it, the rest of my day 606 00:33:55,676 --> 00:33:57,676 Speaker 3: would have felt better, and I could have done the 607 00:33:57,716 --> 00:34:00,196 Speaker 3: exact same thing, which is fine, somewhere else to work, 608 00:34:00,596 --> 00:34:02,956 Speaker 3: but without this kind of heaviness or this out this 609 00:34:03,116 --> 00:34:05,836 Speaker 3: kind of ongoing residue. 610 00:34:06,116 --> 00:34:09,796 Speaker 1: The process he is describing here the active response, rather 611 00:34:09,836 --> 00:34:12,556 Speaker 1: than reacting to our emotions. It is one that scholars 612 00:34:12,596 --> 00:34:16,116 Speaker 1: have been preaching for thousands of years, way before modern 613 00:34:16,116 --> 00:34:20,956 Speaker 1: neuroscience was around. Take Buddhism, for example, Buddhist teachers have 614 00:34:21,036 --> 00:34:22,916 Speaker 1: long argued that we're not going to be able to 615 00:34:22,916 --> 00:34:25,476 Speaker 1: get rid of all the bad stuff in life, the stress, 616 00:34:25,516 --> 00:34:29,476 Speaker 1: the pain, the occasional negative event. The Buddha himself realized 617 00:34:29,796 --> 00:34:33,236 Speaker 1: that these are not going away. In fact, the continued 618 00:34:33,276 --> 00:34:36,716 Speaker 1: existence of pain, or what the Buddhists called duka, is 619 00:34:36,756 --> 00:34:39,556 Speaker 1: so important that it's considered the first of the four 620 00:34:39,636 --> 00:34:43,716 Speaker 1: Noble truths. But Buddhists also realized that our reaction to 621 00:34:43,756 --> 00:34:47,276 Speaker 1: the pain is something that can go away, that's something 622 00:34:47,316 --> 00:34:51,076 Speaker 1: we can control. To illustrate this concept, the Buddha told 623 00:34:51,116 --> 00:34:54,756 Speaker 1: his famous parable of the second arrow. In the story, 624 00:34:54,996 --> 00:34:58,436 Speaker 1: Buddha explains that when something bad happens in life, say 625 00:34:58,476 --> 00:35:00,796 Speaker 1: we get stuck in traffic or get yelled at at work, 626 00:35:01,276 --> 00:35:04,396 Speaker 1: it's like getting hit with an arrow. It sucks. But 627 00:35:04,476 --> 00:35:07,436 Speaker 1: when we respond to negative events, we also get hit 628 00:35:07,476 --> 00:35:12,436 Speaker 1: with what he called a second our reactions, we automatically 629 00:35:12,436 --> 00:35:15,236 Speaker 1: get really upset, and then we hate what we're feeling, 630 00:35:15,356 --> 00:35:18,076 Speaker 1: so we try to suppress it, which makes things even 631 00:35:18,116 --> 00:35:21,596 Speaker 1: worse in life. We can't always control that first arrow, 632 00:35:21,916 --> 00:35:24,516 Speaker 1: but the pain from the second arrow is totally under 633 00:35:24,556 --> 00:35:27,436 Speaker 1: our control. Whether we freak out or try to suppress 634 00:35:27,476 --> 00:35:31,996 Speaker 1: what we're feeling, that second arrow is optional. It's on us. 635 00:35:32,676 --> 00:35:36,596 Speaker 1: Eve's gotten really good at avoiding second arrows. She even 636 00:35:36,636 --> 00:35:38,956 Speaker 1: hadn't one off before we started our interview. 637 00:35:39,356 --> 00:35:43,396 Speaker 3: So, actually before this call, I received a pretty confronting 638 00:35:43,436 --> 00:35:45,796 Speaker 3: email this morning, one that made me feel kind of 639 00:35:45,796 --> 00:35:49,596 Speaker 3: frustrated and annoyed. And I knew we were going to talk, 640 00:35:49,796 --> 00:35:52,756 Speaker 3: and I wanted to feel more clear and less kind 641 00:35:52,756 --> 00:35:56,676 Speaker 3: of triggered emotionally. So I did a short meditation for myself, 642 00:35:56,716 --> 00:35:59,676 Speaker 3: and in this meditation, I focused on not the story 643 00:35:59,716 --> 00:36:02,196 Speaker 3: of why I'm right and clearly this person is wrong, 644 00:36:02,756 --> 00:36:05,876 Speaker 3: but I focused on just the felt sensation of what 645 00:36:05,916 --> 00:36:09,116 Speaker 3: it was like to be triggered into feeling frustration and anger. 646 00:36:09,396 --> 00:36:11,276 Speaker 3: So I think, if we can start managing and working 647 00:36:11,316 --> 00:36:14,516 Speaker 3: with our emotions, the opportunities are boundless. 648 00:36:15,796 --> 00:36:17,876 Speaker 1: Our mind thinks that the right way to deal with 649 00:36:17,876 --> 00:36:20,756 Speaker 1: all the unwonted stuff is just to push it out. 650 00:36:21,076 --> 00:36:23,956 Speaker 1: Just don't do it. Don't think it, don't feel it, 651 00:36:24,956 --> 00:36:27,996 Speaker 1: but science shows us that's just not how mine's work. 652 00:36:28,676 --> 00:36:31,836 Speaker 1: Avoiding our thoughts and emotions causes them to come back 653 00:36:32,036 --> 00:36:35,236 Speaker 1: with an ironic vengeance. The most effective way to deal 654 00:36:35,276 --> 00:36:38,196 Speaker 1: with the pain of life, all those first arrows, is 655 00:36:38,316 --> 00:36:42,916 Speaker 1: just to let them sting. I decided to meet again 656 00:36:42,916 --> 00:36:46,036 Speaker 1: with Colin Shean, my friend, the golf coach who confessed 657 00:36:46,076 --> 00:36:49,116 Speaker 1: earlier that his golf game had gone to pieces. The 658 00:36:49,196 --> 00:36:52,196 Speaker 1: science says his frank admission about the yips could only 659 00:36:52,196 --> 00:36:56,876 Speaker 1: have been beneficial. But did collins golfing form improve. 660 00:36:57,836 --> 00:36:59,996 Speaker 5: I wouldn't go so far as to say smashing, but 661 00:37:00,196 --> 00:37:06,116 Speaker 5: definitely I've improved. I can pretend to look like a 662 00:37:06,116 --> 00:37:07,556 Speaker 5: two or three handicap now. 663 00:37:08,076 --> 00:37:10,876 Speaker 1: By confessing he had that yips, by putting it into 664 00:37:10,916 --> 00:37:13,836 Speaker 1: words and getting it out of his head, Colin was 665 00:37:13,876 --> 00:37:16,196 Speaker 1: able to golf better than he had in years. 666 00:37:16,556 --> 00:37:18,516 Speaker 2: Maybe I should get a bumper sticker I had the 667 00:37:18,636 --> 00:37:21,636 Speaker 2: yips catch on to help people's game. 668 00:37:22,316 --> 00:37:24,276 Speaker 5: I think you could have a nice cottage industry of 669 00:37:24,996 --> 00:37:28,076 Speaker 5: having golfers with the yips come and pay you five 670 00:37:28,156 --> 00:37:29,796 Speaker 5: hundred dollars to sit down for half an hour. 671 00:37:29,836 --> 00:37:36,316 Speaker 1: And my little spiller guts podcast recording Booth Golf Confessional. Well, 672 00:37:36,356 --> 00:37:39,156 Speaker 1: if the podcast doesn't go anywhere, I know have another career. 673 00:37:39,916 --> 00:37:40,356 Speaker 2: Nice. 674 00:37:41,276 --> 00:37:43,396 Speaker 1: I'm kind of hoping that I don't have to make 675 00:37:43,396 --> 00:37:46,956 Speaker 1: a living counseling golfers. But if you enjoyed the show 676 00:37:47,076 --> 00:37:50,036 Speaker 1: and found it useful, I'd appreciate you spreading the word. 677 00:37:50,796 --> 00:37:54,636 Speaker 1: Tell your family and friends and even total strangers. And 678 00:37:54,676 --> 00:37:57,676 Speaker 1: if you're not keen to share, well, maybe this is 679 00:37:57,716 --> 00:38:01,396 Speaker 1: one time we're suppressing. Your thoughts might be okay, So 680 00:38:01,996 --> 00:38:05,316 Speaker 1: whatever you do, don't think about listening to the next 681 00:38:05,356 --> 00:38:19,876 Speaker 1: episode of Happiness Lab with me Doctor Laurie Santos. The 682 00:38:19,916 --> 00:38:22,676 Speaker 1: Happiness Lab is co written and produced by Ryan Dilly. 683 00:38:23,036 --> 00:38:25,396 Speaker 1: The show is mixed and mastered by Evan Viola and 684 00:38:25,556 --> 00:38:29,556 Speaker 1: edited by Julia Barton, fact checking by Joseph Friedman, and 685 00:38:29,796 --> 00:38:34,716 Speaker 1: our original music was composed by Zachary Silver. Special thanks 686 00:38:34,916 --> 00:38:40,236 Speaker 1: to Mio LaBelle, Carly mcgliore, Heather Faine, Maggie Taylor, Maya Knigg, 687 00:38:40,476 --> 00:38:44,116 Speaker 1: and Jacob Weisberg. The Happiness Lab is brought to you 688 00:38:44,196 --> 00:38:55,956 Speaker 1: by Pushkin Industries and Me Doctor Laurie Santos.