1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:25,556 Speaker 1: Pushkin back. In eighteen sixty three, the Russian novelist Dostoevsky 2 00:00:25,796 --> 00:00:29,076 Speaker 1: gave his readers a challenge, one which I'm going to 3 00:00:29,156 --> 00:00:33,116 Speaker 1: argue has a huge impact on happiness. Try to pose 4 00:00:33,156 --> 00:00:35,716 Speaker 1: for yourself this task. He wrote, not to think of 5 00:00:35,756 --> 00:00:38,916 Speaker 1: a polar bear. So for the next few seconds, let's 6 00:00:38,916 --> 00:00:43,036 Speaker 1: do it. Let's not think of a white bear. Ready, go, 7 00:00:49,796 --> 00:00:52,796 Speaker 1: how'd you do? My guess is that even though you 8 00:00:52,796 --> 00:00:54,956 Speaker 1: were trying not to think of a white bear, your 9 00:00:54,996 --> 00:00:58,396 Speaker 1: mind immediately went to thoughts of a white bear. That's 10 00:00:58,396 --> 00:01:01,996 Speaker 1: what Dostoevsky realized. He warned that when you try not 11 00:01:02,076 --> 00:01:04,596 Speaker 1: to think of something, you will see that cursed thing 12 00:01:04,636 --> 00:01:09,116 Speaker 1: come to mind every minute. The Harvard psychologist Dan Wegner 13 00:01:09,516 --> 00:01:12,076 Speaker 1: was interested in these effects, which he referred to as 14 00:01:12,116 --> 00:01:16,556 Speaker 1: ironic processes. Cases, were our minds, ironically enough go to 15 00:01:16,636 --> 00:01:18,796 Speaker 1: the exact place where we don't want them to go. 16 00:01:19,636 --> 00:01:22,876 Speaker 1: Witner created a version of Dostoevsky's polar bear challenge as 17 00:01:22,916 --> 00:01:25,796 Speaker 1: an experiment with college students. He asked them to speak 18 00:01:25,836 --> 00:01:29,316 Speaker 1: their stream of consciousness for five minutes. Living with my 19 00:01:29,476 --> 00:01:33,476 Speaker 1: boyfriend right now, so I didn't have to sunburn and 20 00:01:33,516 --> 00:01:36,236 Speaker 1: I didn't want to be out in the sun really 21 00:01:36,356 --> 00:01:40,876 Speaker 1: quieted as creaks me out a little bit. Next, he 22 00:01:40,956 --> 00:01:43,996 Speaker 1: asked them to repeat the task, but explicitly tells them 23 00:01:44,276 --> 00:01:47,036 Speaker 1: not to think of a white bear. If the bear 24 00:01:47,116 --> 00:01:49,316 Speaker 1: does pop into their minds while babbling, you have to 25 00:01:49,716 --> 00:01:53,556 Speaker 1: ring the bell. I asked my students to repeat the experiment. 26 00:01:54,436 --> 00:01:59,636 Speaker 1: Here's how they did. Of course, All right, and now, 27 00:01:59,916 --> 00:02:04,916 Speaker 1: because I was told I'm not thinking of right now, 28 00:02:05,036 --> 00:02:13,596 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about my class, think about it. Thinking about it. Man, 29 00:02:13,596 --> 00:02:15,956 Speaker 1: it's checkier than I thought. It's funny to hear so 30 00:02:15,996 --> 00:02:19,636 Speaker 1: many bells ringing, but everyone does this. On average. People 31 00:02:19,636 --> 00:02:22,716 Speaker 1: in Wegner's original study ended up ringing the bell about 32 00:02:22,756 --> 00:02:26,276 Speaker 1: once per minute. Things that we don't want in our 33 00:02:26,276 --> 00:02:28,836 Speaker 1: heads seem to come up all the time. Just think 34 00:02:28,836 --> 00:02:37,596 Speaker 1: of that song you can't stop humming. But sometimes the 35 00:02:37,636 --> 00:02:39,796 Speaker 1: thoughts we don't want to think about are a lot 36 00:02:39,876 --> 00:02:42,876 Speaker 1: more serious than a catchy song or a polar bear image. 37 00:02:43,956 --> 00:02:46,956 Speaker 1: Our dumb minds also spontaneously go to lots of yucky 38 00:02:47,036 --> 00:02:49,956 Speaker 1: thoughts that fight with our spouse a few weeks back, 39 00:02:50,596 --> 00:02:53,116 Speaker 1: or that mean comment from a coworker you can't shake. 40 00:02:53,596 --> 00:02:56,596 Speaker 1: Even really traumatic memories have a knack for popping into 41 00:02:56,676 --> 00:02:59,876 Speaker 1: our heads when we least want them there, which raises 42 00:02:59,916 --> 00:03:02,596 Speaker 1: an important question. Why can't we simply get rid of 43 00:03:02,596 --> 00:03:06,076 Speaker 1: all these unwanted thoughts? What strategies should we be using 44 00:03:06,276 --> 00:03:09,356 Speaker 1: not to think of white bears, earworm tunes, and those 45 00:03:09,356 --> 00:03:16,716 Speaker 1: awful memories that hinder our happiness. Our minds are constantly 46 00:03:16,756 --> 00:03:18,916 Speaker 1: telling us what to do to be happy. But what 47 00:03:18,996 --> 00:03:21,396 Speaker 1: if our minds are wrong? What if our minds are 48 00:03:21,476 --> 00:03:24,276 Speaker 1: lying to us, leading us away from what will really 49 00:03:24,316 --> 00:03:27,956 Speaker 1: make us happy. The good news is that understanding the 50 00:03:27,996 --> 00:03:30,396 Speaker 1: science of the mind can point us all back in 51 00:03:30,436 --> 00:03:34,236 Speaker 1: the right direction. You're listening to the Happiness Lab with 52 00:03:34,396 --> 00:03:41,396 Speaker 1: doctor Laurie Santinis. So golfers would never use the word, 53 00:03:41,876 --> 00:03:46,676 Speaker 1: wouldn't even wouldn't acknowledge it, But there's no question it's 54 00:03:46,716 --> 00:03:48,996 Speaker 1: well known. You know, some of the greatest players in 55 00:03:48,996 --> 00:03:51,036 Speaker 1: the history of the game. Get it. Colin Sheen played 56 00:03:51,036 --> 00:03:53,676 Speaker 1: for the golf team back in the nineties. He's now 57 00:03:53,796 --> 00:03:56,876 Speaker 1: the head coach. Colin's a friend of mine, which is 58 00:03:56,876 --> 00:03:59,316 Speaker 1: the only reason he's willing to talk to me about 59 00:03:59,316 --> 00:04:02,236 Speaker 1: a topic that's usually for Bowen for golfers to speak of, 60 00:04:03,116 --> 00:04:06,036 Speaker 1: the yips, the yips is like where you're putting and 61 00:04:06,076 --> 00:04:10,916 Speaker 1: then your hands just twitch and you're in a position 62 00:04:10,956 --> 00:04:14,196 Speaker 1: where you no longer in control of the club. It flicks, 63 00:04:14,276 --> 00:04:17,476 Speaker 1: it twists, you are in control of your of your hands, 64 00:04:17,556 --> 00:04:22,356 Speaker 1: and then there you are left broken. The yips happen 65 00:04:22,436 --> 00:04:25,436 Speaker 1: when golfers totally psyche themselves out, when they think so 66 00:04:25,556 --> 00:04:28,156 Speaker 1: much about not making a certain type of mistake that 67 00:04:28,236 --> 00:04:31,316 Speaker 1: they end up making exactly that mistake all the time. 68 00:04:32,036 --> 00:04:34,716 Speaker 1: And it's not just a one time thing. The yips 69 00:04:34,796 --> 00:04:38,396 Speaker 1: can return at any moment, and that fear plagues golfers. 70 00:04:38,756 --> 00:04:41,716 Speaker 1: The idea of it sort of happening, or that it 71 00:04:41,836 --> 00:04:44,356 Speaker 1: might happen, has always been a thing for professional golfers, 72 00:04:44,476 --> 00:04:46,316 Speaker 1: and so you kind of lived in a constant dread 73 00:04:46,996 --> 00:04:48,996 Speaker 1: of this idea, like is today going to be one 74 00:04:48,996 --> 00:04:50,916 Speaker 1: of those days? Or we're gonna have a bad yips day? 75 00:04:50,996 --> 00:04:54,116 Speaker 1: Or is it gonna are we gonna be fairly easy? 76 00:04:54,276 --> 00:04:56,036 Speaker 1: Or and then you get on the course and it 77 00:04:56,076 --> 00:04:58,556 Speaker 1: may not even be on the first hole, and then 78 00:04:58,836 --> 00:05:02,636 Speaker 1: it can come at any moment, and it's it's an 79 00:05:02,676 --> 00:05:06,196 Speaker 1: unnerving aspect, it's a it's an embarrassing aspect. It's it's 80 00:05:06,316 --> 00:05:11,596 Speaker 1: it's humiliating, it's it's dreadful. Think about what happens when 81 00:05:11,636 --> 00:05:14,676 Speaker 1: you hit a golf ball. Making a put involves not 82 00:05:14,716 --> 00:05:16,756 Speaker 1: only thinking about where you want the ball to go, 83 00:05:17,276 --> 00:05:19,316 Speaker 1: but also where you want the ball not to go. 84 00:05:20,196 --> 00:05:23,716 Speaker 1: This act of thinking of the unwanted action, whatever you do, 85 00:05:23,716 --> 00:05:26,236 Speaker 1: don't hit it to the left, seems to make that 86 00:05:26,356 --> 00:05:30,516 Speaker 1: unwanted action more likely, not less. It's like if you're 87 00:05:30,516 --> 00:05:33,196 Speaker 1: carrying a glass of wine over someone's new white carpet 88 00:05:33,436 --> 00:05:35,956 Speaker 1: and you think, whatever I do, I shouldn't spill this, 89 00:05:36,436 --> 00:05:41,156 Speaker 1: And then, of course, recent research shows how common this 90 00:05:41,196 --> 00:05:44,596 Speaker 1: phenomenon is. College students told not to think about a 91 00:05:44,596 --> 00:05:48,076 Speaker 1: particular person before bed end up dreaming about that person 92 00:05:48,276 --> 00:05:51,196 Speaker 1: more often, and soccer players told not to shoot a 93 00:05:51,196 --> 00:05:54,276 Speaker 1: penalty kick to a specific location tend to look at 94 00:05:54,316 --> 00:05:57,716 Speaker 1: that exact forbidden spot, which is a problem since players 95 00:05:57,716 --> 00:06:02,196 Speaker 1: tend to aim where they look. Den Wegner, who devised 96 00:06:02,196 --> 00:06:05,396 Speaker 1: the white Bear experiment, also study these ironic effects on 97 00:06:05,396 --> 00:06:08,196 Speaker 1: the golf course. He had his student's put a ball 98 00:06:08,236 --> 00:06:12,116 Speaker 1: towards a target. Some subjects took the put normally, but 99 00:06:12,236 --> 00:06:16,396 Speaker 1: others were told, whatever you do, don't overshoot. What happens. 100 00:06:16,996 --> 00:06:20,076 Speaker 1: People then do exactly what they're told not to. They 101 00:06:20,156 --> 00:06:24,676 Speaker 1: overshoot the ball by about twenty centimeters. Wegner's experiment had 102 00:06:24,676 --> 00:06:27,316 Speaker 1: found a way to induce the yips, and it wasn't 103 00:06:27,316 --> 00:06:30,596 Speaker 1: that hard. Just have golfers tell themselves what not to do, 104 00:06:30,956 --> 00:06:33,716 Speaker 1: and you have a recipe for disaster. Golf is a 105 00:06:33,756 --> 00:06:37,116 Speaker 1: lovely game, and it's a cruel game. When it's going poorly, 106 00:06:37,756 --> 00:06:41,276 Speaker 1: it can be devastating. But the most devastating thing about 107 00:06:41,276 --> 00:06:43,956 Speaker 1: the yips is that they tend to stick around. One 108 00:06:43,996 --> 00:06:48,396 Speaker 1: bad shot follows another, A whole ruined becomes a round ruined, 109 00:06:48,836 --> 00:06:52,836 Speaker 1: A bad week stretches out into a bad year. Colin 110 00:06:52,916 --> 00:06:56,196 Speaker 1: explained that this decline without end was famously summed up 111 00:06:56,236 --> 00:06:59,676 Speaker 1: in a classic article by Henry Longhurst, the great British 112 00:06:59,716 --> 00:07:03,196 Speaker 1: golf essayist. It's called once you've had them, you've got them, 113 00:07:03,956 --> 00:07:06,036 Speaker 1: because there's almost like the ideas there's not a cure, 114 00:07:06,476 --> 00:07:10,156 Speaker 1: or maybe someday there will be great to take a pill. 115 00:07:10,756 --> 00:07:12,836 Speaker 1: It was at this point in the interview that Colin 116 00:07:12,876 --> 00:07:15,796 Speaker 1: suddenly turned a bit quiet. He was wrestling with something. 117 00:07:16,276 --> 00:07:18,716 Speaker 1: He stammered for a while and began talking about his 118 00:07:18,756 --> 00:07:21,236 Speaker 1: glory days, I played probably my best golf of my 119 00:07:21,276 --> 00:07:24,356 Speaker 1: life from the time I was about twenty five to forty. 120 00:07:24,716 --> 00:07:26,556 Speaker 1: I had about a decade of my life where I 121 00:07:26,556 --> 00:07:30,556 Speaker 1: was a plus one handicap as and I loved playing well, 122 00:07:30,596 --> 00:07:33,356 Speaker 1: and I did it without practicing much. And then in 123 00:07:33,396 --> 00:07:36,876 Speaker 1: the last five years or so, my game started to struggle, 124 00:07:37,036 --> 00:07:39,796 Speaker 1: and it went from being just a little bit of 125 00:07:39,796 --> 00:07:43,436 Speaker 1: a tail off to almost a precipitous decline. I recently 126 00:07:43,476 --> 00:07:45,556 Speaker 1: told someone, if you wanted to read about my golf game, 127 00:07:45,556 --> 00:07:48,796 Speaker 1: it's over in the obituary section. One of my Yale 128 00:07:48,836 --> 00:07:51,236 Speaker 1: students had told me that Colin was an expert on 129 00:07:51,236 --> 00:07:54,596 Speaker 1: the yipps. I assumed his expertise came from coaching so 130 00:07:54,636 --> 00:07:58,596 Speaker 1: many amazing young golfers, But as Colin continued, I realized 131 00:07:58,636 --> 00:08:02,516 Speaker 1: the truth. Colin knew about the yips because he had 132 00:08:02,556 --> 00:08:07,236 Speaker 1: him and once you've had him, well, The crazy thing 133 00:08:07,476 --> 00:08:09,836 Speaker 1: was that Colin was now confessing all this to me 134 00:08:10,316 --> 00:08:12,516 Speaker 1: in front of alive Mike. You get to a point 135 00:08:12,556 --> 00:08:15,316 Speaker 1: where you wonder, like, why me, What did I do? 136 00:08:15,596 --> 00:08:18,036 Speaker 1: I thought it was a good person. What did the 137 00:08:18,076 --> 00:08:21,356 Speaker 1: golfing gods? Why that? Why did they pick me? And 138 00:08:21,476 --> 00:08:27,796 Speaker 1: I didn't grow up Catholic. Everybody out there. It's true. 139 00:08:28,276 --> 00:08:30,676 Speaker 1: Colin hadn't really spoken about his struggle with the yips 140 00:08:30,796 --> 00:08:34,156 Speaker 1: to anyone by his wife, and that's common for golfers 141 00:08:34,596 --> 00:08:37,236 Speaker 1: because when you've got him, you also want to hide him, 142 00:08:37,716 --> 00:08:40,676 Speaker 1: which makes the yips a form of thought suppression overload. 143 00:08:41,316 --> 00:08:44,076 Speaker 1: Not only are you trying to suppress your thoughts about 144 00:08:44,076 --> 00:08:46,436 Speaker 1: what not to do on the golf course, which is 145 00:08:46,476 --> 00:08:49,516 Speaker 1: bad cognitively, but you're also trying to hide that you 146 00:08:49,556 --> 00:08:53,476 Speaker 1: have this shameful condition from everyone around you. You don't 147 00:08:53,516 --> 00:08:56,956 Speaker 1: want people to learn your dirty secret. Colin even admitted 148 00:08:56,996 --> 00:08:59,156 Speaker 1: that his wife had pulled him aside before he came 149 00:08:59,196 --> 00:09:01,396 Speaker 1: to the interview. She asked him if he was sure 150 00:09:01,436 --> 00:09:03,476 Speaker 1: that he wanted to talk about the awful why word 151 00:09:03,556 --> 00:09:06,836 Speaker 1: on my podcast, whether he wanted to admit it so publicly. 152 00:09:07,476 --> 00:09:11,396 Speaker 1: Would his career suffer if everyone knew about it. In 153 00:09:11,516 --> 00:09:14,796 Speaker 1: the end, Colin decided it was finally time to confess, 154 00:09:15,156 --> 00:09:17,756 Speaker 1: and maybe there needs to be an opportunity for golfers 155 00:09:17,756 --> 00:09:19,756 Speaker 1: to come out about it. I guess I'm doing it 156 00:09:19,836 --> 00:09:23,436 Speaker 1: right now. Well, it's been part of the stress that 157 00:09:23,476 --> 00:09:26,956 Speaker 1: I've had is that if we're being honest. I feel 158 00:09:27,156 --> 00:09:29,036 Speaker 1: like this is a great place to do it. In 159 00:09:29,076 --> 00:09:30,756 Speaker 1: some ways that should just be like on the first tea, 160 00:09:30,796 --> 00:09:32,716 Speaker 1: I should just introduce myself and be like, all right, 161 00:09:32,756 --> 00:09:34,436 Speaker 1: just let me preface this by saying you might see 162 00:09:34,476 --> 00:09:36,996 Speaker 1: some horrendously bad shots out of me, and maybe that 163 00:09:37,116 --> 00:09:41,676 Speaker 1: would that would that might help. I can't stress enough 164 00:09:41,676 --> 00:09:44,316 Speaker 1: how big a sporting taboo Colin has broken by talking 165 00:09:44,396 --> 00:09:48,036 Speaker 1: so openly about suffering from the yips. In the golfing world, 166 00:09:48,036 --> 00:09:51,276 Speaker 1: bringing up the subject, it just isn't done. One way 167 00:09:51,276 --> 00:09:53,676 Speaker 1: that the yips are perceived is that it's it's because 168 00:09:53,676 --> 00:09:56,716 Speaker 1: you're mentally weak. Players often think the yips can be 169 00:09:56,716 --> 00:10:00,196 Speaker 1: overcome by just working harder to suppress them. Just tell 170 00:10:00,236 --> 00:10:03,036 Speaker 1: yourself more sternly not to lose control of your grip 171 00:10:03,036 --> 00:10:06,316 Speaker 1: on the club. Mentally, keep telling yourself not to make 172 00:10:06,356 --> 00:10:09,916 Speaker 1: a bad shot. Golfers don't take kindly to the suggestion 173 00:10:10,196 --> 00:10:12,996 Speaker 1: that all this mental pressure won't help them beat the yips, 174 00:10:13,476 --> 00:10:16,796 Speaker 1: so everyone ends up suffering and keeping it a huge secret, 175 00:10:17,356 --> 00:10:19,716 Speaker 1: which makes the next story Colin told me all the 176 00:10:19,756 --> 00:10:23,556 Speaker 1: more unexpected. You see, back when he was a young golfer, 177 00:10:23,876 --> 00:10:26,076 Speaker 1: Colin had a chance to meet his hero. I was 178 00:10:26,556 --> 00:10:29,236 Speaker 1: working for the Golfer magazine just six months in my 179 00:10:29,316 --> 00:10:32,196 Speaker 1: very first assignment to interview a pro was Bernard Langer, 180 00:10:32,316 --> 00:10:34,996 Speaker 1: the Rye Hilton, And I'm twenty two years old and 181 00:10:35,036 --> 00:10:38,876 Speaker 1: there's Bernard Langer, like two time Master's champion, waiting for 182 00:10:38,956 --> 00:10:41,316 Speaker 1: me in the lobby. And I left an hour early 183 00:10:41,436 --> 00:10:43,836 Speaker 1: and I was still late, and of course he's on time, 184 00:10:44,356 --> 00:10:46,156 Speaker 1: and he was gracious to me, and we sat down. 185 00:10:46,196 --> 00:10:49,396 Speaker 1: We start the interview and it's going wonderfully, and he's 186 00:10:49,476 --> 00:10:53,476 Speaker 1: cranking out answers and I'm sliding follow ups and it's 187 00:10:53,476 --> 00:10:56,276 Speaker 1: going wonderful. That was when Colin made a huge faux 188 00:10:56,316 --> 00:10:59,196 Speaker 1: paw in front of the greatest player on the planet. 189 00:10:59,436 --> 00:11:02,196 Speaker 1: I felt like I sort of had a moment where 190 00:11:02,196 --> 00:11:04,916 Speaker 1: I could ask him about his yips. A typical golfer 191 00:11:05,116 --> 00:11:07,916 Speaker 1: might have walked out of the interview right there, but 192 00:11:08,036 --> 00:11:11,396 Speaker 1: Colin's hero wasn't the usual golfer, and he just goes 193 00:11:11,436 --> 00:11:13,676 Speaker 1: into this answer. In nineteen seventy nine, I had my 194 00:11:13,676 --> 00:11:15,716 Speaker 1: first bout of the yips, and then in nineteen eighty two, 195 00:11:16,316 --> 00:11:18,596 Speaker 1: and he did it. He did it perfectly, and so 196 00:11:18,636 --> 00:11:21,596 Speaker 1: I realized now in hindsight. There he was doing the 197 00:11:21,636 --> 00:11:25,356 Speaker 1: opposite of trying to obscure the fact that he had it, 198 00:11:25,516 --> 00:11:28,796 Speaker 1: and it only paid dividends for him throughout his life. 199 00:11:28,836 --> 00:11:30,836 Speaker 1: He was forty three at the time, and he just 200 00:11:30,876 --> 00:11:34,196 Speaker 1: continued a meteoric rise just by disclosing to some twenty 201 00:11:34,196 --> 00:11:36,236 Speaker 1: two year old kid, it can't hurt, it can't hurt. 202 00:11:36,276 --> 00:11:40,636 Speaker 1: He wasn't. He clearly didn't have a problem acknowledging it 203 00:11:40,756 --> 00:11:46,116 Speaker 1: admitting it. And I think perhaps there's a lesson there, Collins, right, 204 00:11:46,356 --> 00:11:49,676 Speaker 1: there is a lesson here, one that's really important scientifically. 205 00:11:50,356 --> 00:11:52,876 Speaker 1: Langer was one of the few golfers who was willing 206 00:11:52,876 --> 00:11:56,076 Speaker 1: to speak openly about his yips, and that meant that 207 00:11:56,116 --> 00:11:59,116 Speaker 1: his mind didn't have to harbor a shameful secret. It 208 00:11:59,156 --> 00:12:01,916 Speaker 1: didn't have to work really hard to keep the dreaded 209 00:12:01,996 --> 00:12:04,836 Speaker 1: y word hush hush, And that meant that Langer's mind 210 00:12:04,836 --> 00:12:07,516 Speaker 1: could relax a bit. His brain didn't have to put 211 00:12:07,596 --> 00:12:10,996 Speaker 1: so much effort and to keep all those unwanted thoughts concealed. 212 00:12:11,356 --> 00:12:14,076 Speaker 1: Because his yip's cat was finally out of the golf bag, 213 00:12:14,196 --> 00:12:17,836 Speaker 1: so to speak. And what was the result. Langer had 214 00:12:17,876 --> 00:12:20,916 Speaker 1: a lot more mental energy left for doing what professional 215 00:12:20,956 --> 00:12:25,236 Speaker 1: golfers need to do, namely, play golf. Langer was able 216 00:12:25,276 --> 00:12:28,276 Speaker 1: to develop new techniques to improve his game because he 217 00:12:28,316 --> 00:12:31,556 Speaker 1: had finally freed his mind. He had let go of 218 00:12:31,676 --> 00:12:36,636 Speaker 1: all those ironic processes, and his golf game skyrocketed. Yet again. 219 00:12:38,396 --> 00:12:41,556 Speaker 1: Coming up, we'll hear just how powerful that release can be, 220 00:12:42,356 --> 00:12:45,516 Speaker 1: not just for bad golf games, but for life changing events. 221 00:12:45,876 --> 00:12:48,596 Speaker 1: Here it was this big secret they've been keeping their 222 00:12:48,636 --> 00:12:51,796 Speaker 1: whole lives, and here was this opportunity for them to 223 00:12:52,236 --> 00:12:55,796 Speaker 1: organize the experience and to put it into words in 224 00:12:55,796 --> 00:12:58,676 Speaker 1: a way that they've never done before. The Happiness Lab 225 00:12:58,716 --> 00:13:10,276 Speaker 1: will be right back criminal pace for deeps sixty one 226 00:13:10,596 --> 00:13:16,196 Speaker 1: Turney General against Adult the son of adult Karl Eichmann, 227 00:13:16,236 --> 00:13:20,116 Speaker 1: aged fifty four. Historians argue that it took the world 228 00:13:20,156 --> 00:13:24,076 Speaker 1: nearly twenty years to appreciate the true horror of the Holocaust. 229 00:13:25,076 --> 00:13:30,116 Speaker 1: First count nature over fence climb against the Jewish people 230 00:13:30,636 --> 00:13:34,476 Speaker 1: and a fence under section one one of the Nazis 231 00:13:34,476 --> 00:13:38,516 Speaker 1: and Nazi collaborators. It's April eleventh, nineteen sixty one, and 232 00:13:38,676 --> 00:13:42,356 Speaker 1: Adolf Eichmann has just entered his bulletproof doc at a 233 00:13:42,396 --> 00:13:47,556 Speaker 1: special tribunal in Jerusalem. Over fence. Eichmann was facing fifteen 234 00:13:47,596 --> 00:13:50,476 Speaker 1: indictments for his role in sending millions of Jews to 235 00:13:50,516 --> 00:13:54,676 Speaker 1: their deaths. Nazi warker Mills had been publicly tried before, 236 00:13:55,316 --> 00:13:59,316 Speaker 1: but this time was different. This time, television cameras were 237 00:13:59,356 --> 00:14:02,676 Speaker 1: beaming the story to every corner of the globe, and 238 00:14:02,836 --> 00:14:06,036 Speaker 1: this time Jews who had seen and survived the genocide 239 00:14:06,276 --> 00:14:08,996 Speaker 1: were ready to take the stand of court. Please, guy 240 00:14:09,276 --> 00:14:13,956 Speaker 1: in the courtroom, do you speak Hebrew Sir? Yes? Please 241 00:14:14,076 --> 00:14:16,676 Speaker 1: place the skull cap on your head. Many of the 242 00:14:16,716 --> 00:14:20,956 Speaker 1: witnesses had never spoken publicly about the horrific cruelty they'd endured. 243 00:14:23,156 --> 00:14:27,556 Speaker 1: Was my younger sister, and she wanted to live, She 244 00:14:27,716 --> 00:14:32,636 Speaker 1: prayed with a German police interrogator, Michael Goldman. Gallad had 245 00:14:32,636 --> 00:14:35,956 Speaker 1: helped build the case against Aikman. His own parents and 246 00:14:35,996 --> 00:14:39,196 Speaker 1: sister had been murdered by the Nazis, but like other 247 00:14:39,236 --> 00:14:42,636 Speaker 1: Holocaust survivors at that time, Michael had never spoken of 248 00:14:42,676 --> 00:14:47,036 Speaker 1: his ordeal, assuming no one would trust his account. It 249 00:14:47,076 --> 00:14:49,996 Speaker 1: was impossible to believe, he had said, because it was 250 00:14:50,076 --> 00:14:55,676 Speaker 1: so horrible. She asked to run naked. She went up 251 00:14:55,716 --> 00:14:59,036 Speaker 1: to the German with one of her friends. They were 252 00:14:59,156 --> 00:15:04,196 Speaker 1: embracing each other, and she asked to be spared. Standing 253 00:15:04,236 --> 00:15:08,116 Speaker 1: there naked, he looked into her eyes and shopped The 254 00:15:08,156 --> 00:15:13,836 Speaker 1: two of them. They fell together in their embrace. Michael 255 00:15:13,876 --> 00:15:17,956 Speaker 1: had bottled up his experiences for twenty years. After listening 256 00:15:17,956 --> 00:15:20,916 Speaker 1: to hour after hour of awful memories pouring from his 257 00:15:20,956 --> 00:15:25,116 Speaker 1: fellow survivors, he realized that the trial had become a 258 00:15:25,156 --> 00:15:30,116 Speaker 1: watershed historical moment. The Aikman trial, he said, opened our 259 00:15:30,156 --> 00:15:35,236 Speaker 1: mouths again. But unlike those who'd taken a stand against Aikman, 260 00:15:35,716 --> 00:15:38,956 Speaker 1: many Holocaust survivors still felt they had no acceptable way 261 00:15:39,236 --> 00:15:42,836 Speaker 1: to share their stories. You know, it's hard to talk 262 00:15:42,876 --> 00:15:44,796 Speaker 1: to your neighbor saying, oh, did I tell you all 263 00:15:44,796 --> 00:15:47,916 Speaker 1: about my holocoust experiences? They learned nobody wanted to hear 264 00:15:47,916 --> 00:15:51,236 Speaker 1: about it because it was just too threatening. Jamie Pennybaker 265 00:15:51,356 --> 00:15:54,356 Speaker 1: is a professor of psychology at UT Austin and an 266 00:15:54,356 --> 00:15:57,836 Speaker 1: expert on the power of expressing our emotions. By the 267 00:15:57,876 --> 00:16:01,516 Speaker 1: mid nineteen eighties, many Holocaust victims had kept silent about 268 00:16:01,516 --> 00:16:06,196 Speaker 1: their experiences for four whole decades. Jamie wondered what told 269 00:16:06,236 --> 00:16:08,756 Speaker 1: us had taken on them and what benefits they might 270 00:16:08,796 --> 00:16:12,916 Speaker 1: receive by sharing their stories instead of suppressing them. He 271 00:16:13,036 --> 00:16:17,116 Speaker 1: joined a project that invited survivors to give videotape testimony 272 00:16:17,356 --> 00:16:19,876 Speaker 1: of what they had endured at the hands of the Nazis. 273 00:16:20,196 --> 00:16:23,356 Speaker 1: And here was this opportunity for them to organize the 274 00:16:23,436 --> 00:16:26,596 Speaker 1: experience and to put it into words in a way 275 00:16:26,596 --> 00:16:30,036 Speaker 1: that they'd never done before. And they came in. They 276 00:16:30,036 --> 00:16:33,596 Speaker 1: were interviewed on camera, and the average interview was about 277 00:16:33,636 --> 00:16:36,116 Speaker 1: an hour an hour and a half. The films of 278 00:16:36,116 --> 00:16:39,596 Speaker 1: the interviews Jamie conducted are captain a university archive here 279 00:16:39,596 --> 00:16:43,996 Speaker 1: at Yale. I arranged to see some of them. It 280 00:16:44,036 --> 00:16:47,436 Speaker 1: was tougher to hear than even I expect it okay 281 00:16:47,716 --> 00:16:49,956 Speaker 1: to begin when it? Could you tell us your name, 282 00:16:50,116 --> 00:16:53,796 Speaker 1: your maiden name, or your friend. My name is Rosalie Chief. 283 00:16:54,276 --> 00:16:58,756 Speaker 1: I was born in Kako, Poland, and I am a 284 00:16:58,836 --> 00:17:03,996 Speaker 1: Holocaust survivor. Jamie asks Rosalie about the appalling things she endured, 285 00:17:04,716 --> 00:17:07,836 Speaker 1: first in the ghetto and then in the camp. I'm 286 00:17:07,876 --> 00:17:11,116 Speaker 1: struck time and again by just how determined Rosalie has 287 00:17:11,116 --> 00:17:14,956 Speaker 1: been to suppress the details. I tried so hard to 288 00:17:14,996 --> 00:17:18,836 Speaker 1: push the memories away. Do you think you're pretty successful 289 00:17:18,836 --> 00:17:21,716 Speaker 1: at putting it away? Out of your mind, tending you 290 00:17:21,836 --> 00:17:25,636 Speaker 1: get true. I'm finding with myself it's not good to 291 00:17:25,716 --> 00:17:28,996 Speaker 1: start something like this and not to bring it out. 292 00:17:29,516 --> 00:17:34,116 Speaker 1: For nearly two hours, Rosalie patiently answers question after question, 293 00:17:34,876 --> 00:17:39,516 Speaker 1: occasionally wiping away tears. Having suppressed her memories for decades, 294 00:17:39,916 --> 00:17:43,596 Speaker 1: she finally opens up to recount horrors which seemed almost 295 00:17:43,636 --> 00:17:49,156 Speaker 1: unimaginable to me. Who were covered with lies, who were beaten. 296 00:17:50,236 --> 00:17:55,836 Speaker 1: We had to stay in the camp undressed completely like animals, 297 00:17:55,876 --> 00:17:59,676 Speaker 1: and they should every minute somebody else. It was an 298 00:17:59,676 --> 00:18:03,996 Speaker 1: incredibly hard video to watch. Every act of violence perpetrated 299 00:18:04,036 --> 00:18:07,556 Speaker 1: by the Nazis is more depraved and distressing than the last. 300 00:18:08,076 --> 00:18:12,156 Speaker 1: At one point, describes watching the SS slaughter and entire 301 00:18:12,276 --> 00:18:15,996 Speaker 1: orphanage of Jewish children in a frenzied massacre that left 302 00:18:16,036 --> 00:18:19,596 Speaker 1: the street outside a wash with blood. It was very hot. 303 00:18:20,956 --> 00:18:28,036 Speaker 1: Talk about done an outstanding job. You've really really, I 304 00:18:28,076 --> 00:18:30,596 Speaker 1: won't play you the worst parts of rose Lee's testimony. 305 00:18:31,116 --> 00:18:33,396 Speaker 1: I had to stop the tape several times and just 306 00:18:33,596 --> 00:18:36,556 Speaker 1: get up and go for a walk, but Jamie had 307 00:18:36,596 --> 00:18:41,076 Speaker 1: to listen in real time. It was the most moving 308 00:18:41,156 --> 00:18:44,476 Speaker 1: experience in my life. I um, it's hard to put 309 00:18:44,556 --> 00:18:48,236 Speaker 1: into words I had no I'm not a clinical psychologist, 310 00:18:49,036 --> 00:18:56,516 Speaker 1: and hearing these stories was really hard on me, and 311 00:18:56,596 --> 00:18:58,716 Speaker 1: it was almost as though it was a traumatic experience 312 00:18:58,796 --> 00:19:03,196 Speaker 1: for me, and just seeing the depths of the horrors 313 00:19:03,236 --> 00:19:07,036 Speaker 1: that these people had endured, you know, I had nightmares. 314 00:19:07,116 --> 00:19:08,876 Speaker 1: I was now, all of a sudden a victim of 315 00:19:08,916 --> 00:19:12,796 Speaker 1: my own research. But completing the interviews was only the 316 00:19:12,796 --> 00:19:16,036 Speaker 1: first part of Jamie's work. Jamie wanted to know if 317 00:19:16,036 --> 00:19:18,876 Speaker 1: the process of sharing memories would have an impact on 318 00:19:18,876 --> 00:19:22,796 Speaker 1: the survivors, whose lifelong mental strategy had been to timp 319 00:19:22,836 --> 00:19:25,916 Speaker 1: down those thoughts and lock them away. What we found 320 00:19:25,996 --> 00:19:29,156 Speaker 1: was the experience had this profound effect on them. A 321 00:19:29,196 --> 00:19:31,996 Speaker 1: lot of them were self reports in terms of kind 322 00:19:32,036 --> 00:19:35,476 Speaker 1: of a greater sense of well being and happiness, and 323 00:19:35,596 --> 00:19:39,636 Speaker 1: also we had some health markers that showed improvements as well. 324 00:19:40,316 --> 00:19:45,556 Speaker 1: Immediately after telling these awful stories, survivors felt better, and 325 00:19:45,636 --> 00:19:48,796 Speaker 1: survivors who shared the most traumatic memories were the ones 326 00:19:48,836 --> 00:19:51,876 Speaker 1: who reported feeling the best. They had the lowest heart 327 00:19:51,956 --> 00:19:56,156 Speaker 1: rates and the lowest levels of emotional anguish. Talking about 328 00:19:56,236 --> 00:20:01,036 Speaker 1: the worst possible things they'd ever experienced made survivors feel 329 00:20:01,196 --> 00:20:05,996 Speaker 1: calmer and happier, but Jamie's results were even more amazing 330 00:20:05,996 --> 00:20:10,756 Speaker 1: than that. One year after the interviews, Jamie contacted survivors. 331 00:20:11,436 --> 00:20:14,476 Speaker 1: He asked, how are you feeling and have you been 332 00:20:14,516 --> 00:20:18,236 Speaker 1: to the doctor recently. He found that survivors who disclosed 333 00:20:18,276 --> 00:20:21,996 Speaker 1: lots of details in their interviews were healthier. People who 334 00:20:22,076 --> 00:20:25,156 Speaker 1: evaded talking deeply about their traumas went to the doctor 335 00:20:25,196 --> 00:20:29,196 Speaker 1: almost twice as often. It seemed that getting those awful 336 00:20:29,236 --> 00:20:32,916 Speaker 1: secrets out in the open made survivors less sick even 337 00:20:32,956 --> 00:20:35,876 Speaker 1: a full twelve months later. It was hard to do 338 00:20:36,356 --> 00:20:39,276 Speaker 1: a really controlled experiment because we didn't have another group 339 00:20:39,316 --> 00:20:42,516 Speaker 1: of Holocaust survivors who did not come into the studio. 340 00:20:42,636 --> 00:20:47,796 Speaker 1: So as a control study it wasn't that impressive, But 341 00:20:47,916 --> 00:20:51,796 Speaker 1: as a case study, it was a profound Really was 342 00:20:51,836 --> 00:20:56,836 Speaker 1: a profound experience. I've become intrigued with this notion that 343 00:20:57,596 --> 00:21:00,996 Speaker 1: if you have something that's bad and you don't want 344 00:21:01,036 --> 00:21:04,436 Speaker 1: to talk about it, you probably should think about talking 345 00:21:04,476 --> 00:21:07,036 Speaker 1: about it, or at least writing about it. After his 346 00:21:07,076 --> 00:21:10,476 Speaker 1: own tough experience with Holocaust survivors, Jamie set out on 347 00:21:10,516 --> 00:21:14,276 Speaker 1: paper how upsetting and unsettling he'd found the interviews. He 348 00:21:14,356 --> 00:21:17,436 Speaker 1: found the writing process so helpful he decided to test 349 00:21:17,436 --> 00:21:20,436 Speaker 1: the effects of sharing bad memories in a more controlled way. 350 00:21:20,716 --> 00:21:23,396 Speaker 1: So I thought, well, we just get random college students 351 00:21:23,436 --> 00:21:26,316 Speaker 1: who are taking introductory psychology, bring them into the lab. 352 00:21:26,716 --> 00:21:29,756 Speaker 1: They were either wrote about superficial topics or about traumatic 353 00:21:29,836 --> 00:21:34,116 Speaker 1: experiences for four consecutive days. And those people who wrote 354 00:21:34,116 --> 00:21:38,196 Speaker 1: about these traumatic experiences, it was a profound experience. And 355 00:21:38,236 --> 00:21:41,116 Speaker 1: they wrote about things that anybody would agree was a 356 00:21:41,156 --> 00:21:46,196 Speaker 1: traumatic experience. They weren't kind of the classic thing. Some 357 00:21:46,236 --> 00:21:51,236 Speaker 1: were these huge humiliations, were things that sounded superficial. Death 358 00:21:51,276 --> 00:21:56,636 Speaker 1: of a person's dog, I remember, and every night I 359 00:21:56,676 --> 00:22:00,436 Speaker 1: would go and read all of these stories, and they 360 00:22:00,516 --> 00:22:03,996 Speaker 1: blew me away. Both sets of students, the ones who'd 361 00:22:04,036 --> 00:22:06,596 Speaker 1: written the stories that had so moved Jamie and the 362 00:22:06,636 --> 00:22:09,916 Speaker 1: group who just set down warm, mundane thoughts. Granted permission 363 00:22:09,916 --> 00:22:12,396 Speaker 1: for their medical records to be tracked for six months, 364 00:22:12,596 --> 00:22:15,476 Speaker 1: and those in the experimental group, those who wrote about traumas, 365 00:22:15,596 --> 00:22:17,356 Speaker 1: ended up going to the doctor at about half the 366 00:22:17,476 --> 00:22:20,756 Speaker 1: rate as people in the control conditions. When people were 367 00:22:20,756 --> 00:22:24,196 Speaker 1: asked to write about a deeply troubling traumatic experience or 368 00:22:24,276 --> 00:22:26,996 Speaker 1: upsetting experience that they hadn't talked to other people about, 369 00:22:27,156 --> 00:22:30,316 Speaker 1: it was associated with better physical health that people went 370 00:22:30,356 --> 00:22:33,756 Speaker 1: to the doctor lest their immune system got better, something 371 00:22:33,836 --> 00:22:37,396 Speaker 1: that has always stuck with me. I remember in the 372 00:22:37,516 --> 00:22:40,596 Speaker 1: months afterwards this happened at least a couple of times 373 00:22:40,676 --> 00:22:43,516 Speaker 1: a student would come up and said, you don't know me, 374 00:22:43,596 --> 00:22:46,236 Speaker 1: but I was in your experiment on writing and it 375 00:22:46,476 --> 00:22:50,156 Speaker 1: changed my life. Since Jamie's initial research back in the 376 00:22:50,236 --> 00:22:53,756 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, many scientists have seen the same effects of 377 00:22:53,796 --> 00:22:57,716 Speaker 1: setting traumatic memories down on paper. There are easily one 378 00:22:57,796 --> 00:22:59,996 Speaker 1: or two thousand studies that have been done since then. 379 00:23:00,436 --> 00:23:04,436 Speaker 1: Across these studies, it's been associated with reductions and symptoms 380 00:23:04,476 --> 00:23:07,836 Speaker 1: of depression and post traumatic stress disorder. It's been associated 381 00:23:07,876 --> 00:23:12,916 Speaker 1: with people performing better on creative tasks, doing better on 382 00:23:13,356 --> 00:23:18,796 Speaker 1: a standardized tests like SATs or MCATs. They're mentally healthier, 383 00:23:19,236 --> 00:23:23,916 Speaker 1: and the biological markers have been quite impressive in terms 384 00:23:23,956 --> 00:23:27,796 Speaker 1: of changes in terms of improvements and symptoms of arthritis 385 00:23:27,836 --> 00:23:32,236 Speaker 1: and immune disorders and cardiovascular changes and so forth. We 386 00:23:32,316 --> 00:23:34,516 Speaker 1: often tell ourselves not to think about events in our 387 00:23:34,556 --> 00:23:37,396 Speaker 1: lives that are painful. We think dwelling on that stuff 388 00:23:37,596 --> 00:23:40,676 Speaker 1: is not good, and so we squash those bad memories down. 389 00:23:41,356 --> 00:23:44,116 Speaker 1: But the science of ironic processes shows why that's a 390 00:23:44,156 --> 00:23:47,556 Speaker 1: bad idea. It takes work for us to repress those 391 00:23:47,596 --> 00:23:51,556 Speaker 1: bad thoughts, and that cognitive work winds up affecting things 392 00:23:51,596 --> 00:23:54,036 Speaker 1: like sleep and blood pressure and how well we can 393 00:23:54,076 --> 00:23:57,996 Speaker 1: concentrate on a standardized test. Letting those bad thoughts out 394 00:23:58,276 --> 00:24:01,356 Speaker 1: and getting them down on paper finally lets our tired 395 00:24:01,396 --> 00:24:05,556 Speaker 1: brains relax. It's like opening our little mental pressure cookers 396 00:24:05,716 --> 00:24:10,156 Speaker 1: to let out some suppressed steam. But there's a second 397 00:24:10,196 --> 00:24:12,676 Speaker 1: reason that writing down our bad memories makes us happier. 398 00:24:13,436 --> 00:24:16,956 Speaker 1: Writing stuff down helps us make sense of things. Our 399 00:24:16,996 --> 00:24:20,396 Speaker 1: brains finally get to process and work through some really 400 00:24:20,396 --> 00:24:24,756 Speaker 1: bad stuff. I've always been fascinated how people naturally deal 401 00:24:24,756 --> 00:24:27,636 Speaker 1: with upsetting experience. You know you're almost in a car wreck. 402 00:24:27,716 --> 00:24:29,836 Speaker 1: You come home, you tell your spouse, your friend, Oh 403 00:24:29,876 --> 00:24:32,156 Speaker 1: my god, you were not going to believe what happened. 404 00:24:32,836 --> 00:24:37,636 Speaker 1: By putting an upsetting experience into words, it forces structure, 405 00:24:37,876 --> 00:24:42,156 Speaker 1: It forces an organization. There's a beginning, middle, and end. 406 00:24:42,596 --> 00:24:45,036 Speaker 1: It's not blowing off steam. It's not some kind of 407 00:24:45,476 --> 00:24:50,196 Speaker 1: venting or the way many people think about catharsis. Instead, 408 00:24:50,676 --> 00:24:54,636 Speaker 1: you are coming to understand the event and also yourself better. 409 00:24:55,476 --> 00:24:59,316 Speaker 1: Writing about your painful emotions can help you organize those experiences. 410 00:24:59,796 --> 00:25:01,756 Speaker 1: You finally have a chance to make sense of them 411 00:25:01,796 --> 00:25:04,676 Speaker 1: because they're not bottled up anymore. And once you make 412 00:25:04,756 --> 00:25:08,796 Speaker 1: sense of upsetting experiences, you finally get enough perspective to 413 00:25:09,316 --> 00:25:11,796 Speaker 1: from them. And this is something that I find interesting 414 00:25:11,796 --> 00:25:16,996 Speaker 1: about adversity that very often adversity having the thing that 415 00:25:17,876 --> 00:25:23,116 Speaker 1: negative certainly sucks, but by the same token, it has 416 00:25:23,196 --> 00:25:26,556 Speaker 1: the potential to be healing and to make us rethink 417 00:25:26,596 --> 00:25:31,156 Speaker 1: ourselves and rethink our lives. Having watched that film of 418 00:25:31,236 --> 00:25:34,636 Speaker 1: Rosalie Shift breaking her decades long silence about the Holocaust, 419 00:25:35,116 --> 00:25:36,916 Speaker 1: I found it hard to put her out of my mind. 420 00:25:37,436 --> 00:25:40,316 Speaker 1: I decided to track her down. It turns out she 421 00:25:40,396 --> 00:25:42,876 Speaker 1: passed away just a couple of years ago at age 422 00:25:43,036 --> 00:25:46,836 Speaker 1: ninety one. But as I read her many obituaries, I 423 00:25:46,876 --> 00:25:50,916 Speaker 1: was struck by something. Rosalie devoted her final years to 424 00:25:51,036 --> 00:25:54,956 Speaker 1: telling and retelling her terrible story. She even helped to 425 00:25:54,956 --> 00:25:58,356 Speaker 1: write a book about her experiences. She and her husband 426 00:25:58,356 --> 00:26:02,796 Speaker 1: told reporters, quote, we have to talk about it. Rosalie 427 00:26:02,876 --> 00:26:07,276 Speaker 1: had tapped into an important psychological truth. Putting painful memories 428 00:26:07,276 --> 00:26:09,996 Speaker 1: into words can give us the perspect if we need 429 00:26:10,116 --> 00:26:13,596 Speaker 1: to grow from those events, whether those events happened yesterday 430 00:26:13,996 --> 00:26:17,116 Speaker 1: or even fifty years ago. But what if there was 431 00:26:17,156 --> 00:26:19,956 Speaker 1: a way to process those painful events while they were 432 00:26:19,996 --> 00:26:22,876 Speaker 1: actually happening. What if we didn't have to shove the 433 00:26:22,956 --> 00:26:25,876 Speaker 1: tough stuff into some mental memory bank and marshal the 434 00:26:25,916 --> 00:26:28,156 Speaker 1: courage to deal with it all later. What if we 435 00:26:28,196 --> 00:26:32,316 Speaker 1: could just work through the pain immediately, Just feel all 436 00:26:32,356 --> 00:26:36,556 Speaker 1: those bad emotions in the moment and accept them. This 437 00:26:36,636 --> 00:26:40,076 Speaker 1: might sound like some Zen Jedi master stuff, but research 438 00:26:40,116 --> 00:26:44,276 Speaker 1: shows this radical approach to negative emotions is possible for 439 00:26:44,316 --> 00:26:47,476 Speaker 1: every one of us. The Dalai Lama simply said to us, 440 00:26:47,556 --> 00:26:51,276 Speaker 1: if we can all sustain a calm mind, any emotion 441 00:26:51,436 --> 00:26:55,156 Speaker 1: can arise and fall and not be destructive or hurtful, 442 00:26:56,076 --> 00:27:09,916 Speaker 1: the happiness lab will be right back. I'm never going 443 00:27:09,956 --> 00:27:11,876 Speaker 1: to get rid of emotions, but I think I've gotten 444 00:27:11,916 --> 00:27:14,596 Speaker 1: better at my recovery. Can I return back to a 445 00:27:14,716 --> 00:27:18,956 Speaker 1: calm mind a little quicker? I would say yes. Eve 446 00:27:18,996 --> 00:27:21,676 Speaker 1: Ekman is the director of Training at the Greater Good 447 00:27:21,716 --> 00:27:25,236 Speaker 1: Science Center at UC Berkeley. She's an expert on how 448 00:27:25,276 --> 00:27:27,916 Speaker 1: people feel their emotions in the moment and can tackle 449 00:27:27,956 --> 00:27:30,836 Speaker 1: them head on. I remember very well a friend and 450 00:27:30,916 --> 00:27:33,876 Speaker 1: colleague of mine in the UK, and her mother said 451 00:27:33,916 --> 00:27:36,916 Speaker 1: to me, it sounds quite interesting what you do, but 452 00:27:36,956 --> 00:27:40,396 Speaker 1: why aren't emotions just better if we don't talk about them. 453 00:27:41,036 --> 00:27:43,956 Speaker 1: I think most people believe that, but would never say 454 00:27:43,996 --> 00:27:47,356 Speaker 1: it to me, and with that stiff upper lip that 455 00:27:47,396 --> 00:27:50,156 Speaker 1: we associate with people in the UK, I think there 456 00:27:50,276 --> 00:27:53,636 Speaker 1: is an assumption that the more we meddle into our emotions, 457 00:27:53,676 --> 00:27:55,996 Speaker 1: the more trouble we're making. So can't we just leave 458 00:27:56,036 --> 00:27:58,316 Speaker 1: them as they are and hopefully they'll just go away 459 00:27:58,356 --> 00:28:01,236 Speaker 1: on their own. Many people would rather just shut their 460 00:28:01,236 --> 00:28:05,356 Speaker 1: negative emotions off before they happen, but science suggests that 461 00:28:05,436 --> 00:28:08,236 Speaker 1: might not be possible. I think the million dollar question 462 00:28:08,396 --> 00:28:10,556 Speaker 1: that everybody want the answer to is how do I 463 00:28:10,676 --> 00:28:13,836 Speaker 1: stop right in the middle of my emotion? And to 464 00:28:13,996 --> 00:28:16,836 Speaker 1: date I have not found anyone who's able to do that, 465 00:28:17,436 --> 00:28:22,156 Speaker 1: and has even studied the best emotional regulators around. Even 466 00:28:22,196 --> 00:28:25,116 Speaker 1: in my work with His Holiness the Dalai Lama, he 467 00:28:25,996 --> 00:28:30,156 Speaker 1: describes the difficulty of feeling angry and responding to anger, 468 00:28:30,796 --> 00:28:33,556 Speaker 1: and he is able to have anger come and go, 469 00:28:34,916 --> 00:28:37,556 Speaker 1: but not to stop it right in the middle. None 470 00:28:37,556 --> 00:28:40,396 Speaker 1: of us can shut off what we're feeling midstream, not 471 00:28:40,556 --> 00:28:44,156 Speaker 1: even the Dalai Lama. The problem is most of us 472 00:28:44,196 --> 00:28:47,796 Speaker 1: don't get that. We don't realize it's impossible, and so 473 00:28:47,836 --> 00:28:50,436 Speaker 1: we try really hard to shut off any bad feelings 474 00:28:50,436 --> 00:28:53,076 Speaker 1: we're having in the moment. And what does all that 475 00:28:53,116 --> 00:28:57,756 Speaker 1: suppression do? You guessed it? Ironic processes kick in and 476 00:28:57,836 --> 00:29:01,476 Speaker 1: make all those unpleasant feelings even worse. I think what 477 00:29:01,516 --> 00:29:05,116 Speaker 1: we know from researches, when we are suppressing our emotions 478 00:29:05,196 --> 00:29:08,036 Speaker 1: or trying to clamp down on them, they actually have 479 00:29:08,156 --> 00:29:11,716 Speaker 1: a rebound that's even stronger at a physiological level, meaning 480 00:29:12,076 --> 00:29:15,356 Speaker 1: it feels more intensely in our body when we're trying 481 00:29:15,396 --> 00:29:18,876 Speaker 1: to not show what we're experiencing and trying to not 482 00:29:19,036 --> 00:29:22,156 Speaker 1: feel what we're experiencing. Let's take a closer look at 483 00:29:22,156 --> 00:29:25,236 Speaker 1: the science of this rebound effect, an effect that researchers 484 00:29:25,236 --> 00:29:28,476 Speaker 1: have found clever, though sometimes disturbing ways to induce in 485 00:29:28,556 --> 00:29:33,356 Speaker 1: laboratory settings. The Stanford neuroscientist James Gross showed his poor 486 00:29:33,396 --> 00:29:37,436 Speaker 1: test subjects graphic medical footage of a patient's arm being amputated. 487 00:29:38,116 --> 00:29:40,396 Speaker 1: Some viewers were told to suppress what they were feeling 488 00:29:40,676 --> 00:29:43,076 Speaker 1: and not show any outward sides of emotion is the 489 00:29:43,116 --> 00:29:47,516 Speaker 1: horrific film played. What did Gross find? The individuals that 490 00:29:47,596 --> 00:29:50,396 Speaker 1: tried to follow this command were less likely to scrunch 491 00:29:50,516 --> 00:29:53,676 Speaker 1: up their faces in disgust when watching the videos, But 492 00:29:53,836 --> 00:29:57,596 Speaker 1: Gross also found that they showed much larger internal emotional 493 00:29:57,716 --> 00:30:00,676 Speaker 1: responses than the ones who just watched the video normally. 494 00:30:01,196 --> 00:30:04,436 Speaker 1: Their heart rates spiked, they sweated more, and they even 495 00:30:04,436 --> 00:30:08,036 Speaker 1: showed signs of their blood vessels constricting. The act of 496 00:30:08,076 --> 00:30:10,916 Speaker 1: trying to shut off our on the outside makes our 497 00:30:11,036 --> 00:30:15,676 Speaker 1: internal arousal levels shoot through the roof. Researchers see similar 498 00:30:15,716 --> 00:30:19,516 Speaker 1: rebound effects when people try to suppress physically painful experiences. 499 00:30:20,516 --> 00:30:23,316 Speaker 1: In one study, subjects were asked to stick their arms 500 00:30:23,316 --> 00:30:25,636 Speaker 1: in very, very cold water for as long as they 501 00:30:25,676 --> 00:30:28,876 Speaker 1: could take, and then rate the experience on a scale 502 00:30:29,076 --> 00:30:32,796 Speaker 1: from zero no pain at all to ten maximum agony. 503 00:30:33,716 --> 00:30:36,276 Speaker 1: One group of subjects was told to ignore their pain. 504 00:30:37,116 --> 00:30:40,076 Speaker 1: What happened. They pulled their hands out of the freezing 505 00:30:40,116 --> 00:30:43,596 Speaker 1: water almost a minute before subjects who were just experiencing 506 00:30:43,596 --> 00:30:46,476 Speaker 1: the pain normally. It'd be one thing if these rebound 507 00:30:46,476 --> 00:30:49,916 Speaker 1: effects happen only in weird psych studies that involve creepy 508 00:30:49,996 --> 00:30:53,876 Speaker 1: videos and painful tasks. But researchers have also shown the 509 00:30:53,876 --> 00:30:58,076 Speaker 1: power of these emotional rebounds in everyday situations like in 510 00:30:58,076 --> 00:31:00,756 Speaker 1: our family life. Say you have a stressful day at 511 00:31:00,796 --> 00:31:03,436 Speaker 1: work and you come home to your family still feeling 512 00:31:03,436 --> 00:31:06,436 Speaker 1: a little worked up. Our minds often tell us it'd 513 00:31:06,476 --> 00:31:08,916 Speaker 1: be good to shut those feelings down to make sure 514 00:31:08,916 --> 00:31:11,556 Speaker 1: you're spouse and your kids don't know what you're feeling. 515 00:31:11,996 --> 00:31:14,556 Speaker 1: But as researcher Wendy Berry Mendes and her colleagues have 516 00:31:14,596 --> 00:31:17,316 Speaker 1: found out, that's pretty much the worst thing we can do. 517 00:31:18,396 --> 00:31:21,316 Speaker 1: Mendes brought moms, dads, and their kids into the lab 518 00:31:21,716 --> 00:31:25,196 Speaker 1: and had parents simulate a typical stressful work event. They 519 00:31:25,196 --> 00:31:27,956 Speaker 1: had to pitch an idea to their boss, who immediately 520 00:31:27,956 --> 00:31:32,036 Speaker 1: crushes them with some withering criticism. The bruised parents were 521 00:31:32,076 --> 00:31:35,196 Speaker 1: then asked to play legos with their kids. Half of 522 00:31:35,196 --> 00:31:37,436 Speaker 1: the parents were told, try to behave in such a 523 00:31:37,476 --> 00:31:40,036 Speaker 1: way that your child doesn't know that you're feeling stressed. 524 00:31:40,596 --> 00:31:44,396 Speaker 1: What happened those parents inadvertently took it out on their kids. 525 00:31:44,796 --> 00:31:48,236 Speaker 1: They were angrier and more upset. They were less responsive 526 00:31:48,276 --> 00:31:53,116 Speaker 1: to their kids, gave them less guidance, and behaved less warmly. Overall, 527 00:31:53,236 --> 00:31:56,916 Speaker 1: their bad mood deteriorated even further when they played with 528 00:31:56,956 --> 00:32:01,316 Speaker 1: their kids. But what's worse, perhaps not surprisingly, if that 529 00:32:01,396 --> 00:32:04,596 Speaker 1: Mendes found the parents rebound effect also took a toll 530 00:32:04,596 --> 00:32:07,956 Speaker 1: on their kids. These kids had less fun and did 531 00:32:07,996 --> 00:32:11,316 Speaker 1: worse on the task just because their parents were trying 532 00:32:11,316 --> 00:32:13,916 Speaker 1: to hide what they were feeling. So, at the end 533 00:32:13,916 --> 00:32:16,596 Speaker 1: of a day in which we've been suppressing the entire day, 534 00:32:17,076 --> 00:32:22,276 Speaker 1: we feel emotionally exhausted, drained, and depleted. We've been efforting 535 00:32:22,356 --> 00:32:26,316 Speaker 1: our way away from these emotions. Eve thinks that if 536 00:32:26,316 --> 00:32:29,476 Speaker 1: we just felt the emotions rather than trying to suppress them, 537 00:32:29,996 --> 00:32:33,636 Speaker 1: we might not be as burnt out. After all, emotional 538 00:32:33,676 --> 00:32:37,636 Speaker 1: responses aren't in themselves bad from the psychological point of view. 539 00:32:37,836 --> 00:32:39,836 Speaker 1: We would not want to get rid of emotions. That 540 00:32:39,876 --> 00:32:42,356 Speaker 1: would be a very unsafe world for us to live in. 541 00:32:42,436 --> 00:32:45,316 Speaker 1: We wouldn't have the signal of fear or feel the 542 00:32:45,356 --> 00:32:48,516 Speaker 1: motivation of frustration to change things. Some of our more 543 00:32:48,516 --> 00:32:52,236 Speaker 1: difficult emotions we'd rather avoid can sometimes, be, of course, 544 00:32:52,276 --> 00:32:55,036 Speaker 1: our greatest teachers, if we're willing to look at them, 545 00:32:55,076 --> 00:32:57,516 Speaker 1: and if we have the tools to manage them, and 546 00:32:57,596 --> 00:32:59,836 Speaker 1: a first step to managing them seems to be to 547 00:32:59,916 --> 00:33:03,636 Speaker 1: deal with negative emotions as they arise. So let's say, 548 00:33:03,676 --> 00:33:07,996 Speaker 1: for example, yesterday I go into the office and I 549 00:33:08,036 --> 00:33:12,956 Speaker 1: find that my is actually occupied with a meeting, and 550 00:33:13,036 --> 00:33:17,236 Speaker 1: my first experience is a little bit of frustration, but 551 00:33:17,316 --> 00:33:20,316 Speaker 1: I try to avoid that feeling, and I instead I'm 552 00:33:20,396 --> 00:33:23,436 Speaker 1: looking for other places to sit and do my work, 553 00:33:23,476 --> 00:33:26,636 Speaker 1: but I'm doing so in this kind of pinched, aggravated 554 00:33:26,716 --> 00:33:30,196 Speaker 1: tight way. And so later on that day when I 555 00:33:30,196 --> 00:33:32,996 Speaker 1: find that maybe the public transportation on my way home 556 00:33:33,156 --> 00:33:36,596 Speaker 1: is late, and I become very upset. I can't believe 557 00:33:36,676 --> 00:33:39,316 Speaker 1: that this train is late, and what's wrong with the city. 558 00:33:39,796 --> 00:33:41,876 Speaker 1: And then I question to myself, why am I so 559 00:33:41,956 --> 00:33:45,116 Speaker 1: upset about this? And maybe I can trace back to 560 00:33:45,516 --> 00:33:48,356 Speaker 1: not having really been with a low level of frustration 561 00:33:48,396 --> 00:33:50,836 Speaker 1: that happened earlier in the day. If I could just 562 00:33:50,956 --> 00:33:54,516 Speaker 1: accept the fact that it wasn't the way I wanted it, 563 00:33:54,796 --> 00:33:56,796 Speaker 1: the rest of my day would have felt better, and 564 00:33:56,916 --> 00:33:58,996 Speaker 1: I could have done the exact same thing, which has 565 00:33:59,036 --> 00:34:01,596 Speaker 1: find somewhere else to work, but without this kind of 566 00:34:01,636 --> 00:34:06,156 Speaker 1: heaviness or this out this kind of ongoing residue. The 567 00:34:06,236 --> 00:34:09,956 Speaker 1: process he's describing here the act of response, rather than 568 00:34:09,996 --> 00:34:12,876 Speaker 1: reacting to our emotions. It's one that scholars have been 569 00:34:12,916 --> 00:34:17,156 Speaker 1: preaching for thousands of years, way before modern neuroscience was around. 570 00:34:17,996 --> 00:34:21,876 Speaker 1: Take Buddhism, for example, Buddhist teachers have long argued that 571 00:34:21,996 --> 00:34:23,356 Speaker 1: we're not going to be able to get rid of 572 00:34:23,396 --> 00:34:25,916 Speaker 1: all the bad stuff in life, the stress, the pain, 573 00:34:26,116 --> 00:34:30,156 Speaker 1: the occasional negative event. The Buddha himself realized that these 574 00:34:30,156 --> 00:34:34,196 Speaker 1: are not going away. In fact, the continued existence of pain, 575 00:34:34,596 --> 00:34:37,796 Speaker 1: or what the Buddhists called duca, is so important that 576 00:34:37,836 --> 00:34:41,236 Speaker 1: it's considered the first of the four Noble truths. But 577 00:34:41,356 --> 00:34:44,676 Speaker 1: Buddhists also realized that our reaction to the pain is 578 00:34:44,756 --> 00:34:48,156 Speaker 1: something that can go away, that's something we can control. 579 00:34:48,796 --> 00:34:52,076 Speaker 1: To illustrate this concept, the Buddha told his famous parable 580 00:34:52,196 --> 00:34:56,036 Speaker 1: of the second arrow. In the story, Buddha explains that 581 00:34:56,076 --> 00:34:58,996 Speaker 1: when something bad happens in life, say we get stuck 582 00:34:59,036 --> 00:35:01,556 Speaker 1: in traffic or get yelled at at work, it's like 583 00:35:01,636 --> 00:35:04,756 Speaker 1: getting hit with an arrow. It sucks. But when we 584 00:35:04,796 --> 00:35:07,716 Speaker 1: respond to negative events, we also get hit with what 585 00:35:07,796 --> 00:35:12,636 Speaker 1: he called a second arrow our reactions. We automatically get 586 00:35:12,676 --> 00:35:15,476 Speaker 1: really upset, and then we hate what we're feeling, so 587 00:35:15,516 --> 00:35:18,396 Speaker 1: we try to suppress it, which makes things even worse 588 00:35:19,196 --> 00:35:21,996 Speaker 1: in life. We can't always control that first arrow, but 589 00:35:22,076 --> 00:35:25,076 Speaker 1: the pain from the second arrow is totally under our control. 590 00:35:25,636 --> 00:35:28,116 Speaker 1: Whether we freak out or try to suppress what we're feeling, 591 00:35:28,596 --> 00:35:33,316 Speaker 1: that second arrow is optional. It's on us. Eve's gotten 592 00:35:33,316 --> 00:35:36,836 Speaker 1: really good at avoiding second arrows. She even had in 593 00:35:36,956 --> 00:35:40,236 Speaker 1: one off before we started our interview. So, actually before 594 00:35:40,276 --> 00:35:44,316 Speaker 1: this call, I received a pretty confronting email this morning, 595 00:35:44,356 --> 00:35:46,996 Speaker 1: one that made me feel kind of frustrated and annoyed. 596 00:35:47,516 --> 00:35:50,036 Speaker 1: And I knew we were going to talk, and I 597 00:35:50,116 --> 00:35:53,916 Speaker 1: wanted to feel more clear and less kind of triggered emotionally. 598 00:35:54,356 --> 00:35:56,916 Speaker 1: So I did a short meditation for myself, and in 599 00:35:56,956 --> 00:36:00,036 Speaker 1: this meditation, I focused on not the story of why 600 00:36:00,076 --> 00:36:03,276 Speaker 1: I'm right and clearly this person is wrong, but I 601 00:36:03,396 --> 00:36:06,156 Speaker 1: focused on just the felt sensation of what it was 602 00:36:06,196 --> 00:36:09,476 Speaker 1: like to be triggered into feeling frustration and anger. So 603 00:36:09,516 --> 00:36:11,396 Speaker 1: I think if we can start managing and working with 604 00:36:11,396 --> 00:36:16,756 Speaker 1: our emotions, the opportunities are boundless. Our mind thinks that 605 00:36:16,796 --> 00:36:19,036 Speaker 1: the right way to deal with all the unwanted stuff 606 00:36:19,356 --> 00:36:21,836 Speaker 1: is just to push it out. Just don't do it, 607 00:36:22,076 --> 00:36:25,996 Speaker 1: don't think it, don't feel it. But science shows us 608 00:36:26,556 --> 00:36:29,676 Speaker 1: that's just not how minds work. Avoiding our thoughts and 609 00:36:29,716 --> 00:36:33,316 Speaker 1: emotions causes them to come back with an ironic vengeance. 610 00:36:33,916 --> 00:36:36,116 Speaker 1: The most effective way to deal with the pain of life, 611 00:36:36,276 --> 00:36:39,236 Speaker 1: all those first arrows, is just to let them sting. 612 00:36:41,796 --> 00:36:44,436 Speaker 1: I decided to meet again with Colin Shean, my friend, 613 00:36:44,476 --> 00:36:47,156 Speaker 1: the golf coach who confessed earlier that his golf game 614 00:36:47,156 --> 00:36:50,636 Speaker 1: had gone to pieces. The science says his frank admission 615 00:36:50,676 --> 00:36:54,876 Speaker 1: about the yips could only have been beneficial. But did 616 00:36:54,916 --> 00:36:58,876 Speaker 1: Colin's golfing form improve? I wouldn't go so far as 617 00:36:58,916 --> 00:37:04,996 Speaker 1: to say smashing, but definitely I've improved. I can pretend 618 00:37:05,076 --> 00:37:08,236 Speaker 1: to look like a two or three handicap now. By 619 00:37:08,276 --> 00:37:11,476 Speaker 1: confessing he had yips, by putting it into words and 620 00:37:11,556 --> 00:37:14,196 Speaker 1: getting it out of his head, Colin was able to 621 00:37:14,236 --> 00:37:17,196 Speaker 1: golf better than he had in years. Maybe I should 622 00:37:17,196 --> 00:37:20,116 Speaker 1: get a bumper sticker I had the yipps. Put it 623 00:37:20,116 --> 00:37:22,676 Speaker 1: catch on. It would help people's game. I think you 624 00:37:22,716 --> 00:37:26,436 Speaker 1: could have a nice cottage industry of having golfers with 625 00:37:26,476 --> 00:37:28,716 Speaker 1: the yips come and pay you five hundred dollars to 626 00:37:28,756 --> 00:37:31,876 Speaker 1: sit down for half an hour. And my little Spiller 627 00:37:31,956 --> 00:37:36,996 Speaker 1: Guts podcast recording kouth Golf Confessional. Well, if the podcast 628 00:37:37,076 --> 00:37:41,436 Speaker 1: doesn't go anywhere, I know have another career. Nice. I'm 629 00:37:41,516 --> 00:37:43,476 Speaker 1: kind of hoping that I don't have to make a 630 00:37:43,516 --> 00:37:47,156 Speaker 1: living counseling golfers. But if you've enjoyed the show and 631 00:37:47,196 --> 00:37:50,996 Speaker 1: found it useful, I'd appreciate you spreading the word. Tell 632 00:37:51,036 --> 00:37:54,796 Speaker 1: your family and friends and even total strangers. And if 633 00:37:54,796 --> 00:37:57,876 Speaker 1: you're not keen to share, well, maybe this is one 634 00:37:57,876 --> 00:38:02,396 Speaker 1: time we're suppressing. Your thoughts might be okay. So whatever 635 00:38:02,476 --> 00:38:05,836 Speaker 1: you do, don't think about listening to the next episode 636 00:38:05,876 --> 00:38:20,356 Speaker 1: of Happiness Lab with me Doctor Laurie santa The Happiness 637 00:38:20,436 --> 00:38:23,076 Speaker 1: Lab is co written and produced by Ryan Dilley. The 638 00:38:23,116 --> 00:38:25,876 Speaker 1: show is mixed and mastered by Evan Viola and edited 639 00:38:25,956 --> 00:38:29,876 Speaker 1: by Julia Barton, fact checking by Joseph Fridman, and our 640 00:38:29,916 --> 00:38:34,916 Speaker 1: original music was composed by Zachary Silver. Special thanks to 641 00:38:35,036 --> 00:38:40,236 Speaker 1: Miola Belle, Carly mcgliori, Heather Faine, Maggie Taylor, Maya Kanig, 642 00:38:40,436 --> 00:38:44,116 Speaker 1: and Jacob Weisberg. The Happiness Lab is brought to you 643 00:38:44,156 --> 00:38:47,276 Speaker 1: by Pushkin Industries and Me Doctor Laurie Santos.