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Speaker 1: Before we talk about your initial connection to Len, we

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Speaker 1: have two main questions we want to ask everybody. First,

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Speaker 1: why is Len still important today in your mind? Why

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Speaker 1: is he an important story? Why is his Why is

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Speaker 1: Len Bias important today?

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Speaker 2: Well, Lem Bias is important today, not just for his basketball.

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Speaker 2: He's important because he literally took the bullet no pun

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Speaker 2: intended he did. I've never ever had anything to do

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Speaker 2: with cocaine ever. I've never been curious about it, but

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Speaker 2: I'm definitely not curious about it because of what happened

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Speaker 2: to my friendly buyers. It would be the dumbest thing

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Speaker 2: in the world for me to say, well, I've never

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Speaker 2: done it, you only live once, Let's try it. That's

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Speaker 2: the dumbest thing I could possibly do. So, in a word,

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Speaker 2: his death is made him like a modern He literally

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Speaker 2: shows athletes you don't have to be a part of

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Speaker 2: pop culture, you don't have to be a part of

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Speaker 2: the drug culture. You can have everything in the world

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Speaker 2: going for you. For you to think you want to

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Speaker 2: do something that's as silly as snorting one line of cocaine,

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Speaker 2: you should know better. And if you want to know

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Speaker 2: an example, what will happen to you? This may happen

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Speaker 2: to you. So Lenny's important because he can show you

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Speaker 2: that he can be on top of the world one

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Speaker 2: second and then not a part of the world next.

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Speaker 1: Do you find yourself spreading that message in any way

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Speaker 1: to anybody, young people, friends, if they need it or not.

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Speaker 1: Do you find that your impositions to spread that message?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm in a Lenny. Lenny changed everything for me.

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Speaker 2: I'm one of those people that used to believe, Hey,

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Speaker 2: you try it once, right, do that?

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Speaker 3: So don't listen to anybody else. Have your own experiences.

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Speaker 2: After the death of UnBias, which was the day after

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Speaker 2: one of the happiest days of my life, I understood

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Speaker 2: how short lived things were. I understood life is fleeting.

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Speaker 2: I totally got it. Never have to push me in

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Speaker 2: a position to wonder or do it again. I put

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Speaker 2: my nose to the ground and I try to become

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Speaker 2: the best play I could possibly be. I do have fun.

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Speaker 2: I didn't smoke a joint until I was thirty six

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Speaker 2: years old and I was playing for the Los Angeles Lakers,

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Speaker 2: and it was a month before we won the championship

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Speaker 2: and I only had two hits. That's how long it

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Speaker 2: took before I even smoked weed. I put nothing bad

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Speaker 2: in my body except food, and because back then I

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Speaker 2: was still eating flesh. Now I'm to Roy vegan, but

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't. I was, so he kept me without him

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Speaker 2: being here on the straight now definitely.

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Speaker 1: Do you find that you passed that message along to

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Speaker 1: other people in any certain situations or is all Is

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Speaker 1: it all a personal thing to you?

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Speaker 2: No, it was. I would talk to some kids and

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Speaker 2: I would explain the greatness of Lenny Bias. I would

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Speaker 2: talk about how much taller and bigger Lenny was than

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Speaker 2: Michael Jordan when we were younger. I would talk about

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Speaker 2: how Larry Bird thought he was going to be able

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Speaker 2: to take breathers because he finally got Lenny Bias. I

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Speaker 2: knew that this guy was going to be the guy,

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Speaker 2: and I wasn't afraid of him. I'm not afraid of anybody,

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Speaker 2: but I wasn't afraid of because, you know, I kind

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Speaker 2: of shut him down a lot.

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Speaker 3: I just thought, I mentioned that you can do the

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Speaker 3: research yourself, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a I think there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: video of that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of it. Yeah, Because I'd been

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Speaker 2: with him so long and we were at five Star

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Speaker 2: Basketball camp from fifteen and all the way through working

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Speaker 2: working as at camp counselors. So I've been around. I've

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Speaker 2: been around the guy while I always I always. I

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Speaker 2: told him, I said we should go to college and

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Speaker 2: play together, and we were going to go to Maryland,

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Speaker 2: Me him, Johnny Dawkins, We're going to be the Big three.

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Speaker 2: Before Lebron even knew you could do that, I was

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Speaker 2: doing it in college but left to Giselle. You know,

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Speaker 2: one of the times he told me the truth. You

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Speaker 2: got to figure that joke out. He told me that

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Speaker 2: I would I would have to play behind Ben Coleman,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't like that. So I, you know, wanted

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Speaker 2: to stay in the ACC. And Coach Krimage was writing

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Speaker 2: me handwritten letters, no punctuation, some in some incursives, some

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Speaker 2: in print. Very psycho. Now him and Coach Feltain were

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Speaker 2: really great to me. So I thought to be in ACC,

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Speaker 2: to go to a school that was great and academics

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Speaker 2: because I was really particular about being a student athlete.

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Speaker 2: Student first, athletes set second, and Georgia Tech pushes that.

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Speaker 2: And then Johnny Dawkins said, well, I heard I can

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Speaker 2: start at Duke. So we all agreed. You know, hey, lady,

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Speaker 2: you stay in and Johnny Dalks I didn't want to

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Speaker 2: stay home. It's too much pressure, too many tickets, too

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Speaker 2: much stuff. So we all picked different places to be

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Speaker 2: in ACC. And at that time, Maryland was a much

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Speaker 2: better team than all the rest of us, except you know,

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Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty three, I'm sorry, yeah, nineteen.

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Speaker 3: Eighty three ACC Cha play ACC tournament.

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Speaker 2: We went three overtimes and Judge de Tech feat Maryland

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Speaker 2: and I played probably the best, one of my best

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Speaker 2: games in college. And mainly so I can talk smack

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Speaker 2: to let Bias, like, yes, I like winning. There was

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Speaker 2: my team. But at the end of the game, I

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Speaker 2: wanted to talk to Mac Deliney. I wanted to be like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we got that buck.

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Speaker 1: So did you did you bratch up against Leney in

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Speaker 1: that game? Did you do you play up against him?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 3: We had sometimes in parts of it. Yes.

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Speaker 2: Uh. My main objective was to give Bancomb into business

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Speaker 2: and smile at left to dusel. Uh. That's that's what

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Speaker 2: my job was, is to be like, you made a mistake.

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Speaker 2: You shouldn't have told you boy that. But by that

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Speaker 2: time we were in New York City, so you know,

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Speaker 2: the sirens are part of you guys may have birds there,

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Speaker 2: we have sirens. Uh fifteen minutes, I may add. So. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So I once in a while went against him. I

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Speaker 2: think it was really me going against Ben Komen.

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Speaker 1: Take us back to and we'll go sort of go

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Speaker 1: through the progression. Take us back when you met Did

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Speaker 1: you meet Lenny at five Star?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I met Lenny at five Star basketball camp. One

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Speaker 2: of the craziest things was we were seniors and going

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Speaker 2: into our senior year in high school, and I was

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Speaker 2: a five star player and Lenny was, and so they

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Speaker 2: had us in a cabin. They had the rest in

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Speaker 2: this other cabin. But the waiters. They call us the

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Speaker 2: waiters because even though we were the top players, we

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Speaker 2: had to serve all the other campers. That was a

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Speaker 2: way of Godfinkels saying, well, I'm building showing you guys humility.

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Speaker 2: In other words, he didn't want to hire any waiters,

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Speaker 2: that's how lazy he was. So it was, it was.

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Speaker 2: It was a great lesson. My mother was a coacher

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Speaker 2: caterer here in Brooklyn, so I already knew how to

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Speaker 2: do the serving part. You know, I worked, say to

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Speaker 2: dinner is my whole life. So it's about dinners my

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Speaker 2: whole life. So I already knew what that was, and

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Speaker 2: I didn't feel it was a humbling situation. Work is work,

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Speaker 2: and even though we had the better rooms. But then

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Speaker 2: Godfigel decided, Hey, Sally biased. He called me, Sally, you

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Speaker 2: guys sit right here and make sure none of the

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Speaker 2: campers go back to the camp go back to the

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Speaker 2: cabins to make sure everybody stays here. Now, I'm a

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Speaker 2: security guard, but all my boys was sitting up in

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Speaker 2: the stands and I couldn't barely see the game. So

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Speaker 2: I said, Lenn, is big, no one's going I said,

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Speaker 2: you got this right, Lenny? You said yeah, yeah, go

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Speaker 2: sit with your boys, and I go and I sit.

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Speaker 2: The game is over, and all I hear is we're Sally.

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Speaker 2: He goes. I asked you to do one thing to

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Speaker 2: see if you would do it. You couldn't do that

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Speaker 2: one thing, but Lenny knew how to follow instructions. In essence,

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Speaker 2: he took away my fire star, gave me four and

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Speaker 2: a half put somebody else in my position, and I

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Speaker 2: vowed to get him back for that too. I did,

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Speaker 2: but Len Lenn was like, I try to cover for you,

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Speaker 2: I said, you went to the bathroom.

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Speaker 3: I said, you did this.

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Speaker 2: So I've been with Lenny since then, and that's when

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Speaker 2: we had Billy Thompson was the number one play in

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Speaker 2: the country to some people, and Len Bias said, I'm

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Speaker 2: going against Billy today and I'm going to destroy him.

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Speaker 2: Lenny Bias was busting Billy Thompson's but so bad that

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Speaker 2: Billy pumped faked. Billy went in the air and he

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Speaker 2: cut Lenny's head and Lenny had to go get stitches.

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Speaker 2: I said, did you go into town to get those stitches?

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Speaker 2: He said, not before. I took Billy Thompson to town,

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Speaker 2: every skin out going to realize who I am. Now

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Speaker 2: that's exactly what his mentality was.

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Speaker 1: Was Buzz Peterson tell us the stories re memories of

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Speaker 1: land at five Star playing against Michael Jordan's Yeah, what

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Speaker 1: do you remember about those two matched up?

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Speaker 2: I didn't go to that camp, that was. I missed

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Speaker 2: that camp because Lenny had gone a year before me.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's right, okay.

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Speaker 2: I think you got that picture in your book too, right,

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Speaker 2: Michael Jordan yep, and a and a well developed Lenny

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Speaker 2: Bias who's a year younger. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm telling

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Speaker 2: you he was a man at that age. He was

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Speaker 2: a man. We were seventeen years old and you can

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Speaker 2: tell yo, this dude is though Joe.

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Speaker 1: Were in your recollection, did a lot of people already

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Speaker 1: know about him at.

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Speaker 3: That point, No, they didn't know about him.

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Speaker 2: He's very he was introverted, really quiet, but he would

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Speaker 2: show up on the court. Never brag adocious, if that

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Speaker 2: is even a word. He never. He wasn't one of

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Speaker 2: those people. He would give you the business and that

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Speaker 2: be it. Like even if you were have chaired. Uh,

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Speaker 2: he'd be like, calm down, calm down. He didn't like that.

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Speaker 2: He didn't like all that high fiving jumping around. Calm

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Speaker 2: it down. He would always see Lenny be like, Yo, chill, chill,

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Speaker 2: let's win first, you know. With and I don't know,

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Speaker 2: and I always said this, I don't know if it

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Speaker 2: was a DC thing because Adrian Dantley same exact way.

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Speaker 2: He didn't want all the hoop lie. He just wanted

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Speaker 2: to He didn't want to embarrass people. He wanted to

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Speaker 2: give you the business and be on so that Lenny

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Speaker 2: was bigger than that. And then you know, Lenny and

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Speaker 2: I I don't know if I'm running through, so I'll

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Speaker 2: let you go. But but that was that was I

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Speaker 2: would go eighty two going into going into cor happy

200
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Speaker 2: that we're both going to the ACC. Me him and Johnny.

201
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Speaker 2: I said that wrong, Johnny Dawkins, Lambias and myself. So

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Speaker 2: one of the things that we did we said, yo,

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Speaker 2: forget the Big East because you know, Syracuse was brad.

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Speaker 2: It was all like, yeah, hey, we're coming to get you.

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Speaker 2: You should be happy. Saint John Louke, count of Second

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Speaker 2: wanted me, but he didn't want me.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: It was all at that whole Upper East Coast mentality,

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Speaker 2: and the ACC was football, and I remember saying, if

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Speaker 2: we go and turn this basketball around, we're gonna be

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Speaker 2: bigger than the Big East. I was right because that

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Speaker 2: was the year that my friend Lorenzo Charles was playing

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Speaker 2: for North Carolina State and dunked the ball and won

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Speaker 2: the championship for NC State. People now had to start

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Speaker 2: paying attention to the ACC, and I was so happy

216
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Speaker 2: to be going into this conference as opposed to the

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Speaker 2: egotistical people in the Big East. I really didn't like

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Speaker 2: the mentality, and a lot of people didn't, you know,

219
00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,920
Speaker 2: thought I was too skinny, or thought, you know, I

220
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Speaker 2: don't know, my grades were too good.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: You know, they used to guys coming in and having

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Speaker 2: to have tutors in their back pocket, and so I

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Speaker 2: liked the Georgia Tech.

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Speaker 3: I went to a class to visit. I don't to

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Speaker 3: this day. I couldn't.

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Speaker 2: I thought they were speaking French like, I don't know

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Speaker 2: what they were saying. It was a physics class, and

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Speaker 2: I told my mother, I said, this is going to

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Speaker 2: be the most challenging thing I've ever done. But that's

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Speaker 2: what I rather. I'd rather be challenged than to be

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Speaker 2: putting classes that put you in remedial English and math

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Speaker 2: classes and dumbing you down and the ACC I know

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Speaker 2: Georgia Tech was definitely not about it.

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Speaker 3: I know Duke was not about that.

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Speaker 2: I know Maryland well, I don't know Maryland, but I

237
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Speaker 2: know Duke and Georgia Tech was not really about you

238
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Speaker 2: coming in, just being an athlete.

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Speaker 3: And I like that.

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Speaker 1: Did you keep in touch with Lynn throughout your college

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Speaker 1: years and if so, did you have any conversations about

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Speaker 1: him transferring after his freshman year to NC State.

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Speaker 3: Do you recall that, yes.

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Speaker 1: What did he say to you and what do you want.

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Speaker 2: I only remember, well, you know, my thing is that

246
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Speaker 2: if you leave, you got to miss the year. So

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Speaker 2: if you leave, you got to miss the year. And

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Speaker 2: it's better down here in the South. I'm telling you.

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Speaker 2: I was kinsensanin it was way better in the South

250
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Speaker 2: than being so close to it.

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Speaker 3: And I said, Yo, man, it don't snow, I said,

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Speaker 3: it dislike that.

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Speaker 2: I bonically too, it does not snow, I said, And

254
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Speaker 2: it's not cold, and the women have more meat on

255
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Speaker 2: their body.

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Speaker 3: You want to be down south, brother?

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Speaker 1: Uh?

258
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Speaker 2: But you know he would have been in a situation

259
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Speaker 2: playing not behind Lorenzo Charles, but yeah, behind Lorenzo Charles

260
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Speaker 2: by that time.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

262
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Speaker 2: And then h Jimmy V he should have gone there

263
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Speaker 2: in the first place. But I think the picking of

264
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Speaker 2: Maryland the things he probably was promised by the universal

265
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Speaker 2: Maryland and you know, it's a fair thing. Leaving home.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't wait. Like I graduated high school, I think

267
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Speaker 2: on a Friday. On a Monday, I was in a

268
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Speaker 2: car to Georgia. I was out of here. I was

269
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Speaker 2: not going to be a statistic I was not going

270
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Speaker 2: to be in the daily news promising basketball player shot

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Speaker 2: in the head.

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Speaker 3: Now that wasn't happening.

273
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Speaker 2: I was getting out of this mess and going down

274
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Speaker 2: and starting my new life. My mother couldn't say, my house,

275
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Speaker 2: you gotta do it my way. Would you leave my house,

276
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Speaker 2: you do it your way. I could not wait to

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Speaker 2: get out of her apartment. And that's exactly what I did.

278
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Speaker 2: And I came back to visit I think four times

279
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Speaker 2: in four years. That was it for four days at

280
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Speaker 2: a time. I was not trying to be here. So

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Speaker 2: I do remember that I thought I thought he felt.

282
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Speaker 3: It was too close to home.

283
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Speaker 2: He wasn't.

284
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:10,080
Speaker 3: He wasn't growing. But I would stay in contact with

285
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:10,720
Speaker 3: him all time.

286
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Speaker 2: Like I got in trouble a couple of times at

287
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Speaker 2: Georgia Tech because I had teammates who with snitches better

288
00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:24,800
Speaker 2: known as bitches. But I would after we played Maryland,

289
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,520
Speaker 2: everybody go to sleep. I'm out. I'm on the University

290
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,360
Speaker 2: of campus with Lenny, and no one is saying anything

291
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,120
Speaker 2: to me wrong because I'm with Lenny. And I would

292
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,920
Speaker 2: always be with Lenn. And then I'm gonna just speed

293
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,680
Speaker 2: up through. We were at nineteen eighty five. We were

294
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Speaker 2: in Hawaii, and we beat him in Hawaii. We we

295
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,760
Speaker 2: won in Hawaii, Hawaii tournament, and I played really well

296
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,360
Speaker 2: against him because I'm so much, so comfortable playing against Lenny.

297
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Speaker 2: And in the summertimes, I don't know if it was

298
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,520
Speaker 2: a lead. I do know it's illegal, but the university,

299
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,399
Speaker 2: I mean, but Boston Celtics would have us come to

300
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,399
Speaker 2: their camp and they say we were counselors and they

301
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,680
Speaker 2: would pay us one hundred and seventy five dollars.

302
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:15,720
Speaker 3: And I don't remember seeing.

303
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:20,240
Speaker 2: Any kids, but I remember playing and uh, we was

304
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,359
Speaker 2: in and we were playing against grown men, so I

305
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,280
Speaker 2: guess that was them checking us out.

306
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:26,760
Speaker 3: Mike Brown was there as well.

307
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,840
Speaker 2: But then that's when you know, Red came and whisker

308
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,119
Speaker 2: and whispered in my ear and said, Sally, I'm going

309
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,359
Speaker 2: to take you. You're going to be a Celtic. I know,

310
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Speaker 2: your whole life you wanted to be a Celtic. And

311
00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,639
Speaker 2: then after my junior year, he said that I was

312
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:44,399
Speaker 2: the number one pick and they put that in the

313
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,159
Speaker 2: paper and everybody was on me. And he was so

314
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Speaker 2: smart because it was taking eyes as many eyes as

315
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Speaker 2: he could away from Lenny.

316
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Speaker 3: So well, had you heard it?

317
00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,280
Speaker 1: Had you heard of that time? That how passionate? What

318
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:01,040
Speaker 1: was about Lenny?

319
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,320
Speaker 2: Yeah? We were, we started going. We started going to

320
00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:10,119
Speaker 2: Boston in Massachusetts. Our junior uh. He went his end

321
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,920
Speaker 2: of the Southball. I went my junior year, going into

322
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,360
Speaker 2: my senior year. Lenny had been the year before too,

323
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Speaker 2: And I mean as I kind of met Kevin McHale

324
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Speaker 2: at this camp. And when I went to visit, you

325
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,119
Speaker 2: know this one lawyer told me. I mean I was

326
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Speaker 2: allowed in the Celtic black room. I literally thought I

327
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,800
Speaker 2: was going to be a Celtic. So after this all happened,

328
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,760
Speaker 2: we go and I'm warming up and I see Red

329
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:45,960
Speaker 2: Aback and I go over to him because none of

330
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,040
Speaker 2: the vet to a round. I go, Man, told me,

331
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,560
Speaker 2: you were going to take me. You got me wearing

332
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,280
Speaker 2: this red white blue I supposed to be the green white.

333
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,000
Speaker 2: He goes, Sally, I had to take Come on, you know,

334
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,399
Speaker 2: I had to take a let you would have take it.

335
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,240
Speaker 2: I go, You're right, I would have taken Lenny. God

336
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:08,880
Speaker 2: rest his soul. But he's Tony Mashenberg became my teammate

337
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:15,159
Speaker 2: on the Toronto Raptors. I followed Tony on social media.

338
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:19,240
Speaker 2: He keeps he he will not let anyone And I'm

339
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,040
Speaker 2: glad it's this way. Forget about the greatness of my

340
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,880
Speaker 2: friend l Bias, even to the point we would play

341
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,199
Speaker 2: Boy All Americans together and they had us situated sit

342
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 2: in different places, and if you see it, I go, no,

343
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 2: I'm sitting next to Lenny.

344
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:33,040
Speaker 3: I'm standing next to.

345
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,280
Speaker 2: Lenny, and then Johnny Dawkins on us, like we was

346
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,760
Speaker 2: not not going to be next to let me And

347
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:46,600
Speaker 2: it was serious. Dale Curry's father, Dale Carry Steph Curry's

348
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 2: father was also a Playboy All American and you know

349
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,119
Speaker 2: they can't do things well now it's called illegal. But

350
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 2: they took us to a bar that wasn't a bar,

351
00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,760
Speaker 2: and Lenny and I sat there and watched these guys

352
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:05,399
Speaker 2: drink like fish and he was like, I'm gonna bust

353
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,280
Speaker 2: if we play against any of them. I'm busting mat.

354
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,679
Speaker 2: But I already know. Look at that dude's an alcoholic. That

355
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 2: guy right there, you can tell he can drink.

356
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:18,879
Speaker 1: Sorry, this was why you were still in This is

357
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:20,159
Speaker 1: why you were still in high school.

358
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:25,360
Speaker 2: This was no when we played Boil Americans going into

359
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 2: our senior year. Yeah, it was. It was cold in Chicago.

360
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 2: Well it's always cold in Chicago, but it was. It was.

361
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 2: It was nippy whenever we took the picture.

362
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 1: Can you tell when you and Lenn would socialize, what

363
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:42,679
Speaker 1: would you do? What kind of how would it be

364
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:43,879
Speaker 1: fun for you guys?

365
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,199
Speaker 2: One, Since he was quiet, he didn't think he he

366
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:56,679
Speaker 2: didn't think he was particularly handsome. I didn't think so

367
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 2: highly of myself either, but I had a really good

368
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 2: gift of gab, and so we were were mostly quiet

369
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,800
Speaker 2: looking at the cute girls. Uh.

370
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 3: I stood by him because I didn't want him to

371
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 3: be alone, you know what I'm saying.

372
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:11,919
Speaker 1: Now?

373
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:17,239
Speaker 2: You know we would talk about man. Yeah, he was.

374
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,640
Speaker 2: He was big into making sure his body was cut.

375
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,879
Speaker 2: And then going to a senior year, you know, people

376
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,879
Speaker 2: started looking out. He had crocodile shoes and as we

377
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 2: would say, shot skin suits and he had a had

378
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,399
Speaker 2: a gold rope on his neck and the braik and

379
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,680
Speaker 2: the bracelet. You know, he was he was his gear

380
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,919
Speaker 2: was looking better, you know what I'm saying. So he

381
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 2: was becoming more and more confident in who he was.

382
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 1: If we could go on thathing, then I want to.

383
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna read after we talked about this, a quote

384
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 1: that Jeff Baxter had about when Len did a shot

385
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 1: against you, and again that Jeff really remembers us, but

386
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 1: we'll get to that. His last year, according to public

387
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 1: test some money. During Tribble's trial Brian Tribble's trial, it

388
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,680
Speaker 1: was revealed that Lenz started using cocaine at least a

389
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 1: year before he died. His teammates except for one, have

390
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:16,880
Speaker 1: any recollection of him using cocaine. Uh do you did

391
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,199
Speaker 1: you have any concern? Did you? Did you did you

392
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 1: see it? Did you did he talk to you about

393
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 1: it at all?

394
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 2: The reason I don't believe that is I think Ray

395
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 2: I think what he did with Rayfer is the dope

396
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 2: dealers did it with all of us back in the eighties.

397
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 2: You know they would They would make sure we have

398
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,119
Speaker 2: money in our pocket. And the one dope deal I

399
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 2: knew had had a basketball team, so in the summertime,

400
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,160
Speaker 2: but after my career, after I finished at Georgia Tech,

401
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 2: we would go to d C and play these games.

402
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,360
Speaker 2: I played against that kid Graham that played from Georgetown.

403
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,199
Speaker 2: Uh right, we were oh and play these games, and

404
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 2: the dope dealers would better on these games. But I

405
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 2: would leave with three thousand, three thousand dollars for the game,

406
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 2: which was to this day it's still a lot of money.

407
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 2: So I know rayferl probably was taking care of him,

408
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 2: taking you know, buying them clothes or making sure money

409
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 2: was in his pocket, letting them drive his cars.

410
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 1: Taking care of taking care of Lenny. You're taking care

411
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 1: of who taking care of Letty.

412
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,880
Speaker 2: Taking care of Lenny. I think that's I think that's

413
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 2: the connection with Rayful, the one who supposedly gave the

414
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 2: line of cocaine that wasn't cut with anything that was

415
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 2: pure cocaine.

416
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 1: You're talking about Rafel Edmond, Yes.

417
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 2: Sir, okay, So I don't know that for sure, but

418
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 2: I know when you have the dope dealers around you,

419
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 2: that's what they're doing. They make sure and the ball

420
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 2: players are taking care of you know, don't don't getting

421
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,719
Speaker 2: away of the ball players. You may hear some money. Man,

422
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 2: you're looking bummy. Go get yourself some clothes. Man. You can't.

423
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,959
Speaker 2: You're gonna be a pro man. You can't look like that. Now,

424
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 2: you got to dress the part.

425
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 1: It's mainly sort of clarify. You're not sure that Len

426
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 1: was getting money from him. You just think he's because

427
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: everything he was getting the clothing, yeah, he was.

428
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,959
Speaker 2: Getting it from somewhere, because we both were broken. So

429
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 2: I couldn't get a pair of crocodile shoes until I

430
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 2: graduated and had money to go get them.

431
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 3: And that's when I got them from Freeman. And I

432
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 3: used to tell them. I used to tell them down

433
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 3: to Freeman.

434
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 2: As soon as I get my first NBA tech, I'm

435
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:22,959
Speaker 2: calling you, send me these shoes.

436
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 3: And I didn't know you didn't get your first NBA

437
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 3: check until November.

438
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 2: There's a lot they don't tell you, so I would

439
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 2: I would only tell you that I would think that

440
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 2: because that's how things were in the eighties. The crack

441
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 2: wars were starting, and in our neighborhoods, the pimps or

442
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 2: the dope dealers got the money, and if they're looking

443
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 2: out for you, there's no gangster causing any problems.

444
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: So to put this in context and time context, if

445
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: if if Edmund were actually doing this, this started before

446
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,120
Speaker 1: were his senior year or during his senior.

447
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 2: Year, before a senior year, and he said this is

448
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 2: this is the other thing. The reason I don't believe

449
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 2: Lenny got did cocaine or got high is because he

450
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 2: was so into being in shape, right, like part of

451
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 2: the reason I guess I'm a psycho to this point, now,

452
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 2: is His whole thing was, yeah, man, you know all

453
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 2: these guys want to go to the club. He said,

454
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 2: get your body right, then you can do everything later.

455
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 2: And the fact that that year, I guess that was

456
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 2: October when we were taking the pictures for Playboy all

457
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 2: Americans in Chicago at the Drake Hotel.

458
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 3: I remember exactly where it was. He was so against alcohol.

459
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 2: Now it's kind of hard to be okay with cocaine,

460
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 2: but against alcohol. And he was so about, I'm getting

461
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 2: out of here and I'm taking care of my family.

462
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 2: So he was really because I just can't see that

463
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 2: he was dipping and dabvin pleasant.

464
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 3: I knew his girlfriend, and I know she.

465
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 2: Wasn't get high, and that's usually what happens when you're

466
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 2: around a girl that gets high.

467
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: Speaking of girlfriend, another thing I'd like you to confirm

468
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: if you could, and I write this in the book.

469
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: If you read that last section, he apparently has a son.

470
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: And there's a woman named Tina Maynard who gave birth

471
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 1: to a boy two weeks after Lenn died, and a

472
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: couple of people, a few people have confirmed this. People

473
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 1: in his family of one of his teammates, Phil Nevin,

474
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 1: who wasn't much of a factor on the team, but

475
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: he remembers seeing meeting her actually, but no one, none

476
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: of his other teammates knew about it. Had you heard

477
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: that Lenn had a son or a press or a

478
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: woman that and this woman was claiming she was hanging

479
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 1: around his apartment, you know, every now and then, and

480
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: saw him use cocaine. So that's another mystery. So that

481
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: that's it.

482
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 2: Now.

483
00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,479
Speaker 1: I don't know how much you were talking to him

484
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: during his last year a senior in college, but that's

485
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: when she became pregnant, I think in September of that year.

486
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 2: So I thought that, Sorry, now I don't I don't,

487
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 2: I don't know, and I didn't hear that.

488
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: I know.

489
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 2: Maryland, who was wind up being on BET. What's our

490
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 2: last name?

491
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 1: Maryland Webb uh Rose was one of has been uh

492
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 1: classifer identified as one of his close girlfriends.

493
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 2: This one used to be I think that name was.

494
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: Natalie. Would I remember hearing that name?

495
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, we talked to him. He was a host of

496
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 2: BT at this start.

497
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: We talked to Miriam Lege who was a very very

498
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: close friends and they had a spirituality connection, uh, the

499
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: Christianity connection. They talked about their spiritual spirituality a lot.

500
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 1: Did you see that and let as well his spirituality

501
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: come out.

502
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:13,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a god on the court. Brother, he

503
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 2: was a god on the court, God Jesus and the

504
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 2: devil guy there he was. He was the Holy Trinity

505
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 2: on your ass. That's what he was.

506
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: That is one of the best best quotes to be

507
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: had for this. That's hilarious.

508
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 4: Let me ask you just to follow up on Dave's

509
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 4: question about this woman and his son. Do you do

510
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 4: you do you think he would have shared that with

511
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 4: you if fed had you know, or do you think

512
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 4: that there was this like Dave Dickerson, who was a

513
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 4: freshman on that team said, by that point, because he

514
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 4: didn't have the same relationship as you did with Lam,

515
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 4: he said, by the time he was a senior, he said,

516
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 4: he almost had a different you know, it was almost

517
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 4: like he was living in almost like a double life

518
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 4: kind of thing, like he would go, guys wouldn't know

519
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 4: where he was. Did you get a sense at all

520
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 4: that that there was other.

521
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 2: Things going on?

522
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 4: Or do you think you would have found out if

523
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 4: he you know, if he had gotten a girl pregnant,

524
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 4: if he if he if he was going to be

525
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 4: a father.

526
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think you're right. He would have

527
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: been very quiet about it. He would have been. He

528
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 2: was quiet anyway. And like I said, it was at

529
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 2: a point where all of a sudden, the more and

530
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 2: more popular became, the less ugly he became to so

531
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 2: so many people, Like a lot of people used to,

532
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 2: you know, call him muggy. Too many teeth in his mouth,

533
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 2: he had that big chrome head, looked like a raptor.

534
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 2: You know.

535
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 3: It's so many things, you know.

536
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: And I snapped all the time, and so I snapped

537
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 2: and make jokes all the time, and he would just

538
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 2: sit and laugh.

539
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 3: But he was quiet because he was insecure a lot

540
00:29:58,960 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 3: about his look.

541
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 2: So imagine the more they're writing about you, and the

542
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 2: more they're telling me how great you're gonna be, and

543
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 2: how much money you're gonna make, girls start seeing you.

544
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 5: Like.

545
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 2: Girls don't go for looks. I tell people all the time,

546
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 2: they go for power. Girls are attracted with power. The

547
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 2: more powerful you are, the more attractive you are. So

548
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 2: the more and more power he became, the more people

549
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 2: will write about him, the more they would pat him

550
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,479
Speaker 2: on his back and treat him like he was the

551
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 2: next coming. You know that if you haven't had it before,

552
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 2: it's gonna wear art. And I don't think he would

553
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 2: have told anybody that this girl said she was pregnant.

554
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 2: And I don't think the girl would have said anything either.

555
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be honest. You don't want to piss anybody off,

556
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 2: and you, you know, especially say hey, you know, let's

557
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 2: keep this quiet. It's so much quiet, And I think

558
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 2: it wouldn't it wouldn't have benefited her now with social

559
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 2: media people you when they got an ingrown toad then,

560
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 2: So it's entirely different mentality back then, and Lynn would

561
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 2: have been not saying this happened, but the type mentality

562
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 2: had would have been like, hey, chill, you just keep

563
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 2: it like that. We'll find out everything. I take care

564
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 2: of everything, but there's no reason to blow up the spot.

565
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 2: And the girl knowing that too. Also, as my father

566
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 2: told my brother one time, we need to get a test.

567
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 3: Women lied too. My brother was like, they do interesting.

568
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: Interestingly, the woman tells me that they asked for a

569
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: DNA test from the family and they refused, and it

570
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: was confirmed by other members of her family, so she

571
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: made an attempt, according to her and her family members,

572
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: that they wanted a DNA test put the buyers from

573
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: me didn't want to do.

574
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 2: It, so that means one of them would have had

575
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 2: to give their blood up. But his brother winds up

576
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 2: being killed after that as well. Yes, yeah, yeah, so yeah,

577
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 2: and this is funny.

578
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 3: Well i'll tell you. I'll tell you this one thing.

579
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 3: So I got accused.

580
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 2: For this girl saying I got her pregnant, and I

581
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 2: just won my second championship. So it's nineteen ninety one,

582
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 2: and it's all over the paper. I'm in New York.

583
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 2: I come back, it's all over the paper. I go

584
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: and and I have to deal with it. The baby's born,

585
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 2: I take the DNA test. It's not mine. Paper never

586
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 2: writes it. No one wants to hear that story. Yeah,

587
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 2: good point.

588
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 3: So it's it's not it's not fair on this side.

589
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 2: And two, just just because she felt that this was whatever,

590
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 2: if she would be honest and say, how many lovers

591
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 2: did you have while having lovers?

592
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 3: Why you were love it Lenny? And then she said

593
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 3: one or two that answer as hell, No, I'm not

594
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 3: giving you any DNA. You're just shooting in the dog wishing.

595
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 2: This is Lenny.

596
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 3: I don't know. I can't talk for that woman. But

597
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 3: I have this thing.

598
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 2: I wind up getting the custody of my daughter, that

599
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 2: is my daughter from my mother, and I'm one of

600
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 2: the only men that ever do that. So I have

601
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: a thing about people who try to take advantage of

602
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 2: you or try to get a piece of me.

603
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: Fair enough, Okay, Baxter talks about he would you they

604
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: were playing you guys, and all right here, so this

605
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: is Boxler talking. They were playing against you guys. He

606
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: didn't say what year it was. He says, I'll never forget.

607
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: We were playing Georgia Tech. I believe it was a baseline.

608
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: I was believe it was the baseline, and it was.

609
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: He was in a shooting right hand and John Sally

610
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: came to block and he was near his right hand.

611
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: Lenny switched to his left hand and shot with his

612
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: left hand. Red Orbach took his hat off and threw

613
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: it and they had to stop the game because it

614
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: went on the floor. It was the craziest thing.

615
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, see this is I was glad back and said

616
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 2: that I was so knowing everything because you know, when

617
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 2: you watch Lenny. Just to let you guys know, I'm

618
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 2: not bragging, but I won one on one at fire star,

619
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 2: and people were wondering how you would do that one

620
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 2: because you're only allowed to take three dribbles and we

621
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 2: knew fundamentals.

622
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 3: But and coach Krimins came to recruit.

623
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 2: He said, one of the things I saw you do

624
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 2: wasn't you're on the left hand side, you did a

625
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 2: left hand layer and on the right hand side you

626
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 2: did right hand layer. Lenny would talk about being able

627
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 2: to use both hands, being able to drink, dribble, play defense, jump, shoot,

628
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 2: hit a foul shot, he said, hit him, hit a

629
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 2: foul shot.

630
00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 3: It's free. I mean, he was so like being able

631
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 3: to do anything.

632
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 2: You gotta be able to do everything as a ballplayer

633
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 2: to call yourself a total ballplayer. So what I remember

634
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 2: that one move? No, but I do know he can

635
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 2: shoot what he was able to shoot with both hands

636
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,240
Speaker 2: and that was important to him to not be stopped.

637
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: Okay, barn Storming tour. Were you on the tour with him?

638
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 2: Yeah?

639
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: Okay, what are your fun memories of that trip?

640
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 3: I didn't get paid enough. I was knock Carolina.

641
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 2: I remember we had one with Mark where Mark Price

642
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 2: went to one and Lenny was like, yo, man, you

643
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,879
Speaker 2: can make like thirty thousand dollars on this. They didn't

644
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 2: want to pay me, No, thirty thousand dollars. They gave

645
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 2: Lenny all the day our money. That's what I remember

646
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 2: he recalling.

647
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,439
Speaker 1: Do you recall how much he made that that during

648
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: that tour? Did you tell you I.

649
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 3: Think he was making seventy game?

650
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: Wow?

651
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 2: Yeah? Can you imagineeteen eighty six? Seventy guys in NBA

652
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 2: wasn't making that regularly in games? You know what I'm saying.

653
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: Did he tell you that or he just's what you're guessing.

654
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 2: I'm guessing I got thirty five hundreds, okay, and not

655
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 2: that he was that much better than me. Now I'm joking,

656
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 2: but I think he was. But I would think that

657
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 2: Lenny was getting at least above five thousand.

658
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:26,399
Speaker 3: I would say seventy five.

659
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 1: Mike Sumner, who ran the Bone Storming tour, tell some

660
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: pretty good stories about Hewlen interacted with the fans and

661
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: the and the people, and how much fun and how

662
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: relaxing it was. Do you recall him interacting very comfortably

663
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: with the fans and staying after and sunning autographs things

664
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: like that that took.

665
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 2: Mike explains, well, I think yes, because I think That's

666
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 2: mainly the reason I get so many accolades to this

667
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 2: day about being a nice guy is we both love

668
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 2: Doctor J. And they say Doctor J would not leave

669
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 2: to he signed the last autograph and did the last interview.

670
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 2: And I think that was another thing when we would

671
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 2: hear guys not going to say any names. Patrick Ewing

672
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 2: doesn't like signing autographs or being around people. Uh, Lorenzo, Yeah,

673
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 2: you know, so I hear and I didn't like that.

674
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: I think I think it's disrespectful. At that point, it

675
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 2: can't hurt you, and it only helps you when people

676
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 2: want to pat you on the back and tell them

677
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 2: you bought them joy where that Hey, I know John

678
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 2: Thompson got into those guys heads, but that's that's the

679
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 2: Big East for you. A bunch of assholes.

680
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 1: Uh, this will be an interesting segway. Then Chris Washburn

681
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: tells us that Lenn introduced him to cocaine on the

682
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 1: barn Storming tour. Len wasn't on. Chris wasn't on the tour.

683
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 2: But I can stop, I can stop you right here.

684
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 2: Not true. Chris Washburn is a liar. Chris Washburn had

685
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 2: been doing drugs since high school. Chris Washburn was at

686
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 2: Laurenberg Prep. The reason I noticed because Gil Reynolds, who

687
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 2: was my summer league coach here with the Vanguard Oilers,

688
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 2: always wanted me to go into Laurenberg Prep. Laurenberg Prep

689
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 2: was a school was for kids who got in trouble

690
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 2: or wasn't the greatest at school, and so it was

691
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 2: keeping him on the straight. Now, now, Len Bias and

692
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 2: I are outside of the Grand High Hotel here in

693
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 2: New York City on Lexington and forty second Street, not

694
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 2: going anywhere, just watching people, people watching. We didn't see

695
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 2: Chris Washburn getting out of his car with some girl

696
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 2: and he was already high.

697
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 3: This is the night before the draft.

698
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 2: And he didn't say anything that Lenny like, hey, Lenny,

699
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 2: come to me, not at all because we didn't know

700
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 2: Chris Washburn.

701
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 3: We didn't know him well.

702
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 2: So maybe the cocaine he was has a thing to

703
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 2: do with memory, because that's not how it happened. Ledby

704
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 2: has had nothing to do with introducing Chris Waspurg, who

705
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 2: was at North Carolina State.

706
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 3: In this in cocaine.

707
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 2: It's funny that people that get high say that I

708
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 2: was introduced to cannabis. My brothers had done it for

709
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 2: so long, sould it, cut it, put it together, grinded everything.

710
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,479
Speaker 2: They stay away from this, focus on your on your job,

711
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 2: and I go all the way through my job, retired,

712
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 2: come back, about to win my fourth championship, and a

713
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 2: girl introduced me to weed.

714
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 3: Cocaine is a female drug.

715
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 2: So I've heard. It's not a male drugs for all

716
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 2: those guys out there listening. It causes a record dysfunction.

717
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 3: It causes that. It makes girls happier. So I just thought,

718
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 3: I let you know.

719
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:03,760
Speaker 1: That, appreciate that insight. Uh well, just to clarify, you

720
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: knew for a fact that Chris was using drugs in

721
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: high school. Yeah, how do you know that?

722
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 3: Because everybody that went to Laurenburg Prep was a problem.

723
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 2: Remember that's the same school that the Goat went to,

724
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 2: the high jumper from here from home.

725
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 3: The high jumper, the kid that can dump the goat

726
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 3: that I just escaped my mind.

727
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, done, done, okay, right man, Right, he went

728
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: to Laurenburg Prep.

729
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 2: He had a cocaine problem from here in Harlem. And

730
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 2: that's how it is. You know, you go to the

731
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 2: school and you dry you out. So I don't know

732
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,399
Speaker 2: for personal because I don't know Chris Washburn except from

733
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 2: playing against him a couple of times of being drafted

734
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 2: in the same draft.

735
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 3: I don't know him, but I know I know this.

736
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 3: I was with Lenny.

737
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 2: Outside of the High Hotel and it wasn't like they

738
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 2: knew each other. So if they didn't know each other,

739
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 2: then they would have they would have been more cordial.

740
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 3: He didn't act like he knew him at all.

741
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: We were just like the night before the draft and

742
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 2: he got a bad one and he sat there and

743
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 2: told us about his car. I never forget this. Chris

744
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 2: Washburn was like, he I already got my car. I said,

745
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 2: what you get? He said, man, I got a Mercedes

746
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:33,280
Speaker 2: Beans with a Rose royceteria. And I looked at Lenny

747
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 2: and I go, that's the dumbest shit I've ever heard

748
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 2: in my life. The Mercedes vendetaria is enough. Why would

749
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 2: they take the materia out of a Rose Royce and

750
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 2: put it into your Mercedes? How much they get you

751
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 2: for him? One hundred thousand dollars.

752
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 3: I was like, you gotta be on drugs, and I.

753
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: Was admittedly he was.

754
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 2: He was on drugs, yea, I was right, And and

755
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 2: Lynn would sit around and left because Lynn didn't say

756
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 2: he knew this kid or act like we knew. We

757
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 2: knew we were all in acc right, But it wasn't

758
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,479
Speaker 2: like they were buddies, pals and best friends. I didn't

759
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 2: get that feeling. They may have been hiding that too,

760
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 2: But I'm telling you, I've been around Lenny a lot.

761
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 2: I was around him a lot. I didn't, and I've

762
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 2: been around a lot of drug addicts. So I hear

763
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 2: not gonna say who, but I so, I you know

764
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 2: my whole life, and I could tell, but I want to.

765
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,399
Speaker 1: I want to throw this to Don soon to talk

766
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: about NBA and comparing Michael to what Len could have

767
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 1: been the whole thing, But a couple of things I'd

768
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 1: like to wrap up with. In your mind, who was

769
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: Len Bias when he was in college? As you knew him,

770
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: how would you describe him as a person as a player,

771
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: comparing him to other players? And as you knew him

772
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 1: as a person, how would.

773
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 2: You who was he to you as a person? To

774
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 2: start with the most important part, As a person, he

775
00:42:53,040 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 2: was an introverted, awkward, sometimes socially awkward. It he didn't

776
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 2: you know, it's quiet, laid back all about basketball as

777
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 2: a professor. As an athlete, he was a menace. I

778
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 2: was not joking. He was a god, Jesus and the

779
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 2: devil all in one. He was going to give you

780
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 2: the business. And he was so intense about playing. He

781
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 2: didn't yell at people to point I say to me,

782
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 2: it was an all around great person.

783
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 3: He that was it. Now as a student, I.

784
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 2: Guess part of the reason to go to University of

785
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 2: Maryland is you don't have to do your school work

786
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 2: so much.

787
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: I saw that coming. I am a merily grad by

788
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 1: the way.

789
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 3: And I can tell by the way you spell.

790
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 1: Can you tell him I'm among the academic elite.

791
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 5: Uh?

792
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: Actually I.

793
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 2: Do. I do appreciate you, and I did appreciate it.

794
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 2: And it's funny. He's one of the only thing. I

795
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 2: don't remember a lot about a lot of things. I

796
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 2: went to a jungle in Costa Rica in two thousand

797
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 2: and ten, nine or ten, and I did and I

798
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,879
Speaker 2: literally cleared my brain out. So I don't have any

799
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 2: hate any I don't have as much hate as I

800
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 2: used to. I don't have any resentment, no guilt. I

801
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 2: left all at the jungle, So I don't remember a lot.

802
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 2: But when you mentioned lambias. It just clicks into a

803
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 2: part of my brain that I never forget. Plus I

804
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 2: had a lot of sports psychology psychiatrists, Like my best

805
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 2: friend got murdered my second year in college, and they

806
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 2: taught me how to deal with that. And then when

807
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 2: Lanning got murdered, That's the way I look at it.

808
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 2: I had to deal with that. Now.

809
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 3: Imagine I'm the happiest day.

810
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 2: Last thing he says is I see the leads and

811
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 2: I was like, yep, So he goes up.

812
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 3: I don't see him anymore.

813
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:05,800
Speaker 2: I'm then with my agent at the time, and we

814
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 2: fly to Detroit. My roommate is Dennis Rodney again. He

815
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 2: was my roommate and Hawaii, so he's my roommate again.

816
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,720
Speaker 2: He wakes me up and he tells me, your friend's

817
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 2: on the news. I said who, He said, the guy

818
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 2: you we was sitting next to at the draft and

819
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 2: then I hit the news. So I had to deal

820
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,879
Speaker 2: with having one of the happiest days of my life

821
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 2: to one of the saddest days of my life and

822
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 2: then get up and go do media as if it

823
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 2: didn't happen. So I was numb the whole time, and

824
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 2: then a week later, I'm staying at Johnny Dawkin's house

825
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 2: going to the funeral. So it was like everything was

826
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 2: moving so fast that I didn't get to literally take

827
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 2: it all in because I was still, you know, trying

828
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 2: to be happy about making it or being successful. But

829
00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 2: it wasn't as happy as I wanted to be. Because

830
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 2: Lenny goes number two, Johnny Dawkins goes number ten, I

831
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 2: go number eleven. So I just killed me. It still

832
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 2: does it bothers me to this day. That and I

833
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 2: love Michael Jorgan is my frat brother on Make Aside

834
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 2: Fire Incorporated. I've been with Michael, you know, since nineteen

835
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 2: eighty two, first time I saw him, first time.

836
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 3: I met him. But I'm telling you would have been

837
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,800
Speaker 3: an entirely different narrative.

838
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 2: I really believe that. I don't. I think Michael is

839
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 2: the most fluid, slickest. We call him black Cat. Black

840
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 2: Cat is amazing. But Lenny was six' nine and he

841
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 2: was going to The celtics And Larry bird was going

842
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,399
Speaker 2: to play small, FORWARD i mean big, forward and kept

843
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 2: McHale was going to play. Center LIKE i don't know

844
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 2: what would have. HAPPENED i don't know what would have,

845
00:46:57,560 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 2: happened but there was no way of benching this. GUY

846
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,879
Speaker 2: i don't know If magic would have won any more.

847
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 2: CHAMPIONSHIPS i think the dynasty would have been. Amazing where

848
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 2: they would have fit those, GUYS i have no, idea

849
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 2: but it would have happened done.

850
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 1: If you could just wait a little. More like a

851
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 1: couple of quick follow. Ups you made a reference To

852
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: Costa rica and in the jungle and maybe helped your.

853
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: Head and it was the psycho psycho psychedelic drug treatments

854
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: that that that have become popular FOR ptsd? Stuff was

855
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: that part because if it, is it was lend part

856
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: of the reason for that that you had to sort

857
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 1: of get that out of your mind or your. Memory

858
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 1: was that was that affecting?

859
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 2: You, no so you're talking about when they do araguasca

860
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 2: and D. Mt, yeah, YEAH i didn't. KNOW i went

861
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 2: down to do a show. Call i'm a, Celebrity get

862
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:51,919
Speaker 2: me out of. HERE i was in the jungle With Nis,

863
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 2: dickinson AND i would have never mind that it was

864
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 2: to deal with that or kill Jet, no but we'll move.

865
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 2: On it's funny you know you mentioned that BECAUSE i

866
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,399
Speaker 2: did do three years, AGO i did do ayahuasca and

867
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:11,359
Speaker 2: it does open your. Brain but that wasn't mainly WHY

868
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 2: i did. IT i went down to do a, show

869
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 2: but it WAS i literally had to humble. Myself i'd

870
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 2: been riding a high horse too long AND i had

871
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 2: to go down there and literally not have, anything no cell,

872
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 2: phone no contact with people besides people in the, Show, like, literally,

873
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 2: hey you're supposed to be all big and.

874
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 3: Mighty now you have. Nothing let's see how you.

875
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 2: Deal and so the days it was, RAINING i got

876
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 2: to sit in the water and cry about the THINGS

877
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 2: i didn't cry, about forgive myself for Things i've done

878
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 2: or shouldn't have, done forgive, others and realize, that you,

879
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 2: know life is. Fleeting so it took that twenty eight

880
00:48:58,200 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 2: days for me to grow. UP a lot of people

881
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 2: don't get to step off the. TREADMILL i got to

882
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 2: step off the treadmill and that's that was my. Blessing

883
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 2: AND i didn't need any drugs for.

884
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:06,439
Speaker 1: That that's.

885
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 3: Cool and just to let you, know those are not,

886
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 3: drugs those medical.

887
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 2: Medicine that was a plant a, drug, RIGHT a drug is.

888
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 2: Made in, fact you.

889
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: Saw The Real sports special on that about the psychedelic

890
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 1: drugs and how they're helping people WITH. Ptsd if you,

891
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 1: haven't it's. All it's. Tremendous it's a great. Peace.

892
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 3: Uh, finally, YEAH i definitely GOT.

893
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: Ptsd, okay, finally BEFORE i throw it to don you

894
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: talked a lot about sort of cultural theme about the

895
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,760
Speaker 1: history of black people in this country connected to. Slavery

896
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: do you find any profound cultural connections To lend and

897
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 1: society today away from the drug impact of the drug?

898
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 1: Laws do you see his death affecting black culture in

899
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: ways that maybe people don't.

900
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:07,720
Speaker 2: Realize, No i'm only saying that because it was almost

901
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 2: forty years, ago and it's a, different different world. Now

902
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 2: it's a different world, now AND i would have to

903
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 2: sit and think about that and answer that. Question but

904
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 2: in the, eighties it was cracked.

905
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 3: And it wasn't an.

906
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:36,760
Speaker 2: Epidemic now it's opioids and it's an. Epidemic and opioids

907
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:41,919
Speaker 2: were not in my. Community crack, Was, uh now opioids

908
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 2: in my community through rap music when they're crushing up

909
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 2: pills and putting it in, drinks making songs About miley.

910
00:50:53,640 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 2: Percocets it's it's it's a different time back, then you.

911
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:06,439
Speaker 2: Know back then you people fell into the drug game

912
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 2: without even knowing they were in the drug. Game it

913
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 2: was it, was it became that. Fast it was almost

914
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 2: like zombies. Everywhere now you have to literally. Focus if

915
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 2: you want to be a drug, addict then you have

916
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 2: to focus on it and, SAY i, Know I'm i'm

917
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 2: addicted because it takes too much to get to. It

918
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 2: so that's the only WAY i can think about it

919
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:30,479
Speaker 2: when WHEN i talk about drugs or cocaine or, crack

920
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 2: AND i don't know if if enough, PEOPLE i want

921
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 2: enough people to pay attention to how Great lenny would

922
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 2: have been or could have.

923
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,399
Speaker 3: Been the only WAY i can put.

924
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 1: It that's, okay done all your.

925
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 2: Spreading, yeah, thanks. OKAY i gotta go.

926
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 4: To when when When lenn had sort of his coming

927
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 4: out At, maryland whether it was the game you, know

928
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:05,399
Speaker 4: his sophomore, year uh and And michael finished the game

929
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 4: with that cradle dunk or the or the or the

930
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 4: game you know where he Led maryland to the championship

931
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 4: and they hadn't done that Under. Lefty did you did you,

932
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 4: say OH i knew this was. HAPPENED i, mean did

933
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 4: you did you did people like say to, YOU i

934
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 4: didn't know that guy was that? GOOD i, mean did

935
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 4: you have to SAY i knew this the whole time

936
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 4: or did he even surprise you at how his game took.

937
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 2: Off, NO i knew this is the craziest. THING i

938
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 2: wanted to go To maryland SO i could play With, lenny,

939
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 2: Period like when he, said, Yeah i'm gonna go To

940
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 2: university Of Maryland Johnny dawkins AND i considered playing With.

941
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 2: Lenny that's how many people wanted to play. You it's

942
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 2: like playing With. Michael you know you're gonna. Win you

943
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 2: know you're gonna. Win there's not gonna be anybody out there.

944
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 3: Better you know you're gonna. Win you believe in this.

945
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 2: Situation So, NO i definitely know left To, giselle you,

946
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 2: know running, around you, know like not knowing that was

947
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 2: my lefty. Impression you knew you were gonna, Win you

948
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 2: Knew lenny was gonna take it. Over you knew it

949
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 2: was gonna get to that. Point and it's funny you

950
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 2: called it to going out game To lenny and To.

951
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 2: Michael it's just it's street basketball.

952
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 3: Again it just happened to have fans and ALL i was, like, oh,

953
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 3: yeah you got me last.

954
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 2: Time i'm about to get thirty on you this. TIME

955
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 2: i mean it's that. Mentality uh, YEAH i JUST i just.

956
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 2: KNOW i don't think people are going, WOW i think

957
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 2: they knew if you knew, anything especially everybody out of D.

958
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 2: C that's another. Thing lenny wasn't just playing for The

959
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 2: university Of. Maryland he's playing for everybody in his.

960
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 4: Neighborhood How come they didn't, win you, know they didn't

961
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 4: win at a high level when he.

962
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 3: Was there Because Georgia tech was in the.

963
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 5: Way if you if, you if you go and, check

964
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:13,439
Speaker 5: like we played them in the championship In, hawaii we

965
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 5: beat him in the A C C.

966
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 3: Championship we uh who? Else they just didn't have.

967
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 2: It they Just adrian branched, great but they had so

968
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 2: many different people that felt they should take the last

969
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 2: shot or it should go through.

970
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 3: Them it kind of gets in the. Way mm.

971
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:45,399
Speaker 4: Hmm in terms Of michael the, comparison you, know when

972
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,759
Speaker 4: when he came? Out when when when When lynn came?

973
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,840
Speaker 4: Out michael at that, point, YEAH i guess. HE i

974
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 4: don't even he got out of the year or his rookie.

975
00:54:55,960 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 2: Year and so what happened is when when when we

976
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:04,959
Speaker 2: got into THE, NBA i mean when we got into,

977
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 2: College michael had already hit the shot off the, backboard,

978
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 2: Right so the next Year worthy wasn't. There we were, freshmen,

979
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 2: right And michael was in his second, year and then

980
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 2: going Into lenny AND i and our sophomore, Year lenny

981
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 2: takes off and that was that big game Against. Michael

982
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 2: michael goes pro after that eighty, four, Right, so and

983
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 2: you only get to play them two times a year

984
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 2: something like, that two or three. Times so In North

985
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 2: carolina was, Through Sam perkins was really getting a lot of.

986
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 3: A lot of the.

987
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 2: Light and you, know Coach Dean smith was really in

988
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 2: charge on who got to shine who didn't get to.

989
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 2: Shine so you never really got to See Michael joe

990
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 2: and red line one hundred degrees because he would always

991
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 2: table him back.

992
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 4: Right you. Know yeah the line about team was the

993
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:10,840
Speaker 4: only one to Keep michael under twenty points a.

994
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 2: Game, yeah definitely a.

995
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 4: Lot he must have a lot of friends In. Vegas you,

996
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,959
Speaker 4: know WHEN i COVERED i had Covered jordan And Bitton.

997
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 4: COLLEGE i had worked in The New york area and

998
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:24,319
Speaker 4: done some stuff with you, Know. Michael when he came,

999
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 4: THROUGH i had not, known you, Know Lenny. BIAS i

1000
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 4: heard the name WHEN i AND i had just finished

1001
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 4: Covering Chris mollen and and The Big.

1002
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 2: East you're you're Hated Big.

1003
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 4: East AND i saw this guy AND i, said you Know,

1004
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 4: mullen you know he's a Future hall Of Famer and that,

1005
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 4: kid he was a boy compared To.

1006
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 2: Lenny lenny was a.

1007
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 4: Man and and and and when he came, OUT i,

1008
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 4: said He's michael with a jump. Shot HE'S i said.

1009
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 4: THAT i used to say. THAT i used to say

1010
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,839
Speaker 4: this guy could to suit. It and he was three's just, tall,

1011
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 4: RIGHT i mean he he reminded me of a big

1012
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 4: version Of David, thompson just because of his so you

1013
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 4: know how you know. Athleticism his jump shot was. Beautiful

1014
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 4: do people underestimate how good a pro he would have

1015
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:15,800
Speaker 4: been because they just didn't see the finished? Product and

1016
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 4: and and you mentioned before how it changed the. Narrative

1017
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 4: you were part of that narrative being with the being With.

1018
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 4: Pistons The pistons became the next sort of mini. Dynasty

1019
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 4: if Len bias, lives do the bad boys, exist do

1020
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 4: the do the bulls you, know have the three? Peats

1021
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 4: or does him being with The celtics change? Everything not

1022
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 4: to say you guys wouldn't have, Won chicago wouldn't have.

1023
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 4: Won but it wouldn't have been any kind of dynasty

1024
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:48,919
Speaker 4: situation unless it was The, celtics if they had stayed.

1025
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 2: Healthy let me tell, you len biased In boston changes.

1026
00:57:55,840 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 2: Everything it changes the way we only had to. Worry

1027
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 2: not only that was the dumbest THING i just, said

1028
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 2: but we Had Lottery parrish and kal dj danny, a

1029
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 2: who else corn? Bread we had all these cats to worry.

1030
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 2: About for them to have this monster of a of a,

1031
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 2: player it would have it would have changed everything against The,

1032
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 2: celtics against The, lakers it would have changed it.

1033
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:37,600
Speaker 3: All and people, said, well you don't know.

1034
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 2: That YEAH i. DO i do know that even with,

1035
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 2: it If lenny wouldn't have made a, Difference lenny was

1036
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 2: about winning and putting the ball in the. Basket when

1037
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 2: you look at guys you start talking about a great,

1038
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 2: scory you just got to realize that this person can

1039
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 2: put a nine pound, thing that's nine pounds, around that's

1040
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 2: nine inches of round into an eighteen inch rim, consistently

1041
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 2: almost like second.

1042
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 3: Nature and he had no.

1043
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 2: Problem in sliding his feet and playing defense or going

1044
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 2: up and getting the rebound jumping forty one forty two

1045
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 2: inches off the ground and having muscles in places most

1046
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 2: humans don't have. Muscles so this was an unbelievable specimen

1047
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 2: of a human being and to better, gout AND i

1048
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 2: think it would have changed. Everything do you do you think?

1049
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 4: THAT i, mean because people say you can't compare anybody

1050
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 4: To michael having seen what you saw at five, store

1051
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 4: have you seen what you're certainly accou he been what

1052
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 4: he had, been.

1053
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 3: The rival To Michael. Jordan, YES i think you really

1054
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 3: can't compare anything To.

1055
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 2: Michael remember they tried to Compare Clyde drexler and that

1056
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 2: Pissed michael, off And michael wanted to go at. It

1057
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 2: but if you watched nineteen eighty four, trials he was doing,

1058
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 2: well but so was everyone. Else Len bias would have

1059
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 2: been in the SAME i guess image on the same.

1060
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 3: Same.

1061
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 2: Conversation people don't remember That Ron harper before his knees.

1062
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 3: Were bad and he had to have him operated. On

1063
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 3: when he played for The.

1064
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:29,040
Speaker 2: Clippers he was Giving Michael jordan the business as, well

1065
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 2: That Ron harper was, like these guys were really Really

1066
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:36,440
Speaker 2: at this, point it just developed that THE nba was

1067
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 2: looking For.

1068
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 3: MESSIAH i got in trouble ON espn for saying he.

1069
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 2: Said the greatest player all the, time said were not

1070
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 2: of all, time maybe of the, nineties and they wanted

1071
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 2: to crucify me BECAUSE i was truthful that in the

1072
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 2: Nineties michael was the, best but not in the, eighties

1073
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 2: not in the, seventies not in the. Sixties in the,

1074
01:00:56,760 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 2: nineties from nineteen ninety one to eighteen ninety, Five michael

1075
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 2: was the. Man then from nineteen ninety six to nineteen ninety,

1076
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 2: Eight michael was the. Man then when he went To,

1077
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 2: washington he no longer was the man that.

1078
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 3: Period and if people want, to, well he was getting.

1079
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 3: OLD i don't.

1080
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 2: Care can't be the greatest of all, time of all

1081
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 2: time and just delete everyone. ELSE i think it was

1082
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:28,000
Speaker 2: it's a marketing scheme by THE, nba by nineteen BY,

1083
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 2: espn and it's good they needed A. Messiah but then

1084
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 2: it's one of my favorite movies Is The Ten commandments

1085
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 2: and he, goes where is Your messiah? Now so, anyway

1086
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 2: where's Your god? Now so it's JUST i don't believe.

1087
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 2: THAT i just don't believe. That you, know HE'S i

1088
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 2: think he's a GREAT i think he's a great. PLAYER

1089
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:53,520
Speaker 2: i love EVERYTHING mj is.

1090
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 3: DONE i.

1091
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 2: Watched it score sixty three on us AND i was

1092
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 2: a part of. IT i got twenty of. Them it's

1093
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 2: still my, guy but not of all. Time AND i

1094
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 2: think if they would have had to split it and

1095
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 2: you were allowed to Let lenny do what he, does

1096
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 2: we see it. Differently hey think about. It but Nod

1097
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 2: king wasn't allowed to do everything he wanted to. Either

1098
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 2: but Nod king is my favorite player. Period DOCTOR j

1099
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:24,560
Speaker 2: is my FAVORITE nba. Player but but Nod. King IF

1100
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 2: i were to say anything from the streets all the way,

1101
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 2: through it's but No king to.

1102
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 3: Me i'm A New.

1103
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 2: Yorker that's that's the way we.

1104
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 3: Go we could go WITH bk all.

1105
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 4: Day let me ask you one quick. Question you Mentioned Olympic.

1106
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:38,840
Speaker 4: Trials did you were You did you go to the

1107
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:39,600
Speaker 4: trials in eighty?

1108
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 1: Four?

1109
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 2: No, no, OKAY i. NEVER i never was good enough

1110
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 2: for them to say you should come Represent.

1111
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 4: America, okay because somebody told us or it was out

1112
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 4: there at some, point we never could get it confirmed

1113
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 4: That lenn turned down The Olympic. Trials do you know

1114
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 4: if that is correct or?

1115
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 3: NOT i wouldn't have known, that AND i wouldn't be lead.

1116
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 1: That, okay all, right do you see did you see

1117
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 1: his death related To did it changed your life related to,

1118
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:10,440
Speaker 1: drugs et cetera or kept you in a certain mindset

1119
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 1: away from. Drugs did you see that AFFECT nba players

1120
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 1: the way he, Died how it affected their attitude toward

1121
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 1: abusing drugs or anybody changed through life because Of.

1122
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 2: Lendine, YEAH i THINK i think THE nba changed this

1123
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 2: whole mentality about drugs because of the way Lent biased.

1124
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 2: Died that for one of the up and coming stars

1125
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:42,760
Speaker 2: to die from a cocaine overdose from what was reported

1126
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 2: is not having enough body fat and his heart blowing

1127
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:56,200
Speaker 2: up like, shreds it changed THE nba drug policies all

1128
01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 2: of a. Sudden it was, like now there was more

1129
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:01,000
Speaker 2: people out looking for people who are getting. High there

1130
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:04,280
Speaker 2: were more guys going down getting in trouble for. It,

1131
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 2: before AS i understand that THE nba was said to

1132
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 2: be too, black too drug. Infestive now they were cleaning it.

1133
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 2: Up they started getting more and More european, players and

1134
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:19,440
Speaker 2: literally they were testing crazy places for drugs and some

1135
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:23,040
Speaker 2: of our favorite players or players that were putting on

1136
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 2: shows were no longer The Michael Ray, richardson who's played

1137
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:29,400
Speaker 2: for the Next now THAT i mentioned, it you, know

1138
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 2: you've never heard his name until me saying it right.

1139
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 1: Now RARELY i remember, it but you don't hear much about.

1140
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 2: It, yeah because THE nba is the best at erasing

1141
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:43,960
Speaker 2: people's memories and doing away with things that don't work

1142
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 2: well with our. Product now THAT i agree. With if

1143
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 2: it doesn't work well with the product we're trying to

1144
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:54,000
Speaker 2: sell and help these up and coming, cats if it's

1145
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:56,360
Speaker 2: detrimental to you and to the, league you should be.

1146
01:04:56,400 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 2: Eliminated so THE nba started going out with the right

1147
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 2: people to find out who were doing. What they started

1148
01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:09,080
Speaker 2: having meetings that were mandatory five thousand dollars out of your,

1149
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 2: check ten thousand dollars out of your check if you

1150
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:14,840
Speaker 2: missed the drug. MEETING i, mean THE nba jumped on,

1151
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 2: it said this is not going to. Happen we're not

1152
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 2: going to be known as a drug. League leave that

1153
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:22,600
Speaker 2: to baseball and to.

1154
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 1: Help how often were they having these.

1155
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:31,959
Speaker 2: Meetings we have a meeting on every team they fly.

1156
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 2: In put it this. Way camp starts day two drug.

1157
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:41,360
Speaker 2: Tests they're not even not even to the point where

1158
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:45,520
Speaker 2: you get the scrimmage drug. Tests you in, there you

1159
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:49,000
Speaker 2: take the, pictures y'all, happy you go to the dinner tomorrow.

1160
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:51,200
Speaker 2: Y'all we're gonna start at ten, o'clock and then we

1161
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:54,440
Speaker 2: got another one starting at five point thirty at nine.

1162
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 2: O'clock upeeing in a jar and they're watching. It there's

1163
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 2: none of that. Here go behind the. Stall they're watching.

1164
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 2: You if they can get you to do it, naked they,

1165
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 2: would they. Would they were so serious about getting rid

1166
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 2: of this drug gad.

1167
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 1: And to your, knowledge that wasn't happening until you, started

1168
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:14,280
Speaker 1: because that was it.

1169
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 2: WAS i remember one time we had a meeting one

1170
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:19,040
Speaker 2: of the players on the. TEAM i won't say his,

1171
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:22,600
Speaker 2: name not fond of. Him they made us all get

1172
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:25,160
Speaker 2: together and he, said, hey do you mind if we

1173
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 2: sign attendance. Job the guy says. Yeah he passed it

1174
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:34,920
Speaker 2: around and he, goes, okay everybody's. Here he, SAID i

1175
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 2: got one. Question do you guys check for? Marijuana said?

1176
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:42,160
Speaker 2: No do you guys check for bear beer and? Alcohol said?

1177
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:44,000
Speaker 2: No he, said nice to meet, you got up and

1178
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 2: walked out of the. Being we.

1179
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 3: Laughed he really laughed because he knew he didn't do

1180
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 3: any of those other.

1181
01:06:49,480 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 2: Drugs but and if they're not checking for those two very.

1182
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:03,080
Speaker 1: Interesting so this when you went to clarify when you

1183
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 1: said they had people going out and sort of looking

1184
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 1: to make sure there was a guy Hors bomber was

1185
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 1: a head of security for THE. Nba then if you remember,

1186
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:13,960
Speaker 1: him he told you for the, book if you recall

1187
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 1: that they had people going like, investigators investigating backgrounds of

1188
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: players before they would before they would want to draft.

1189
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:25,720
Speaker 1: Them after, that did you see, more that's what you're referring.

1190
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 2: To, Yeah i'm telling you THE nba is is the

1191
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:37,439
Speaker 2: best when it comes to when it comes to literally find,

1192
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 2: it like the like THE. Nfl they have you write,

1193
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 2: this they have you take this litleus test and they

1194
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:45,600
Speaker 2: asked you this. Question THE nba wants to. Know they're

1195
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:49,920
Speaker 2: going to know who you hang out. With that's what

1196
01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 2: he might be the best person to ask if that

1197
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 2: baby belongs To Len.

1198
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 1: Bias, well actually he passed away, Unfortunately UH i forgot

1199
01:07:57,760 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 1: to Ask hi about the.

1200
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:02,000
Speaker 2: Book but, yeah but that would have Been horrace and

1201
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 2: it Was horrace's, boy the light skinned guy who was with.

1202
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:06,520
Speaker 3: Him they knew everything about.

1203
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 2: Everybody you don't remember has.

1204
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:12,960
Speaker 1: No, Actually horrace said he didn't know about lends drug.

1205
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 1: Use yah know he's He. Clark he didn't know.

1206
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:17,760
Speaker 2: It and that's What i'm telling. You there's no Way

1207
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:21,879
Speaker 2: horace would not have. Known That's i'm being very. Serious

1208
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:27,400
Speaker 2: they know everything that needs to. Happen because THE nba

1209
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:31,800
Speaker 2: was changing nineteen eighty, Four David stern gets in and

1210
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:34,600
Speaker 2: Tells Michael, jordan we're going to change his. League and he.

1211
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 2: Did he did he and they call Him David. STERN

1212
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:41,599
Speaker 2: i call him The don AND i used to call

1213
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:46,679
Speaker 2: him the dawn in his. FACE i, Go Don, sterling

1214
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:52,759
Speaker 2: let me ask you a, Question Don, stern let me ask. You.

1215
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:55,160
Speaker 2: Please it's a little bit of bread for my. Family

1216
01:08:55,240 --> 01:09:00,920
Speaker 2: let me have this. Neighborhood you keep your. Neighborhood, john

1217
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:01,519
Speaker 2: thank you so.

1218
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:03,679
Speaker 1: MUCH i enjoyed the. Time appreciate.

1219
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:04,040
Speaker 2: It will be.

1220
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:05,640
Speaker 1: Rich take care all.

1221
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 2: Right Len BIAS A Mixed.

1222
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 1: Legacy the interviews was produced By Davon grady And Don.

1223
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:18,120
Speaker 2: Marcus he had it all, strong quick and he was

1224
01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:22,200
Speaker 2: So len BIAS A Mixed legacy is distributed by The

1225
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:25,479
Speaker 2: Eighth Side. Network just For greatness at loss to let

1226
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:27,800
Speaker 2: you known them all of the, Memories remember. ME i

1227
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:28,800
Speaker 2: hope they do the. Same