WEBVTT - Not Your Mother’s Menopause with Naomi Watts 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.560 Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric and this is next question. 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:15.280 Hi everyone. Today we're diving into a topic that has 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:19.400 really only started to get the attention it deserves, menopause. 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:23.000 My guest is someone who's breaking the silence and changing 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:27.600 the conversation around it, the incredible Naomi Watts. You know 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:30.560 her as an award winning actress, but today she's here 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:34.159 as an author, sharing her deeply personal journey in her 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:39.360 incredibly candid, informative, and yes funny book Wait Till You 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:41.880 Hear about the night she was frantically trying to scrub 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:46.519 off her estrogen patch before getting to it, something I 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:49.599 could totally relate to. By the way, the book is 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:53.080 aptly called Dare I say it? Everything I wish I'd 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:57.960 known about menopause, because Naomi definitely goes there. She says 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:00.400 she wanted her book to feel like a cozy chat 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:04.720 with a girlfriend, despite the serious subject. She discovered she 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:07.680 was on the precipice of menopause at just thirty six, 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:11.160 the same time she wanted to start a family. She 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:14.640 felt devastated and alone, and was shocked by a sense 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:18.080 that doctors and even family members thought she should just 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:22.520 suffer through it. Naomi is now in a mission to educate, embrace, 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:26.679 and empower women, so their journey might be a little smoother. 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:30.280 I really had a good time talking to her. Here's 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:36.480 my conversation with Naomi Watts. Naomi, I had so much 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:38.520 fun reading your book. I felt like you and I 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:41.080 were spending a lot of time together, and I learned 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:43.160 a lot about you, a. 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.840 Lot, probably too much. No, Actually, I. 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:49.520 Really appreciated your candor and the fact that you were 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:53.560 so open, and also that you used so many experts 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:57.880 and gave so much valuable information. And this is something 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:00.400 I know that you've been thinking about for some time time. 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:04.280 But why did you decide? Damn it, I'm going to 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:07.480 write this book and I'm just going to lay it 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:07.960 out there. 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.919 Yeah. Well, I'd been thinking about it, as many of us. 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:15.079 When we have ideas that we sit on them, we 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:18.639 think on them, we percolate on them, we fear them. 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:21.280 So it takes a process to get to that point 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:24.160 where you're ready. If you read the book, then you 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:28.000 will see that I am very I got there very 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:31.080 early and was very much alone and feeling scared and 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:36.280 didn't have a community. I was thirty six when I 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.800 was told I was about to go into menopause right 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:41.440 at the prespoe of wanting to start a family. So 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:46.520 that collision of two things creating a huge amount of fear, 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:52.000 just left me undone, frankly, and I needed a support 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:55.360 system and didn't have it. And I wished there was 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:59.200 a book that was a little bit more, you know, 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.880 where I could find support, I could find expert advice 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:08.520 and some fun along the way, as it isn't or 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:11.320 it doesn't have to be so doom and gloom, you know. 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.880 And I wanted to create a book that had not 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:18.720 just my story, but it was infused with other women's 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:26.040 stories with some humor, pain points their distress, my distress, despair, 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:30.400 as well as the facts as we know them of 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:34.800 the current place, speaking to fantastic doctors. Because there's a 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:38.560 lot of books out there now which are incredibly helpful, 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.080 but sometimes they can be too dense, you know, with 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:45.160 all just the facts, and so I wanted it to 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:49.520 feel like a cozy chat with my girlfriend, so that 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.040 I could say, hey, this is what worked for me, 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.280 this is what was awful, this was what was great, 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:59.040 this is what I've learned along the way, and I 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.800 can back it up up with this conversation with that 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:03.360 doctor and that doctor, and. 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.680 I think it really was effective because it was so 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:11.440 personal and yet also, as I mentioned, really informational, and 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:16.039 I think some of the struggles to understand women's bodies 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:21.800 is emblematic of a larger issue in the medical establishment. 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:25.000 In your intro, you quote doctor Cheryl Malone, a DC 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:28.720 based obgyn who I happen to know and we use 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:32.520 her in our newsletter frequently. She's wonderful and she's the 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:36.000 chief medical officer at Alloy Women's Health. She's one of 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.560 the leading menopause practitioners in the country. And you quote 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:42.520 her saying, I think one of the things that we 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:46.920 have got to understand, and study after study has substantiated this, 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:51.839 is that we have really normalized suffering as a part 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:55.640 of womanhood. We suffer from cramps, we suffer in childbirth, 0:04:55.680 --> 0:05:00.400 we suffer from pre menstrual syndrome. These things that exclusively 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:04.560 affect women have been understudied across the board because the 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:08.120 expectation is that if women suffer, it is not deemed 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:12.479 worthy of redress. Women exaggerate, were hysterical, it's all in 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:16.160 your head. This unfortunate perception is still all too common 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:19.479 in medicine today. Women still feel they're not heard, they're 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:24.200 not seen, and they're not believed. And that's the problem there. 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:28.359 You have it, I mean, yeah, we were told to 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:31.159 suffer through it. When I asked my mom why she 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.280 didn't tell me more about menopause, she said, I didn't 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:36.480 have these conversations with you because I never had them 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:39.200 with my mother, as if to say there was some 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:42.800 code of silence that was agreed upon generation by generation, 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:45.960 which is absurd. Why should we suck it up and suffer? 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:50.080 There's absolutely no reason when treatment is available, and the 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:52.800 same thing goes for I mean, I remember having my 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:57.839 first baby. I thought, no, I mustn't have an epidural. 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:02.480 I must suffer through this. Be a natural birth woman, 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:09.000 you know, And that's absurd. If you're feeling extreme pain, 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:15.520 why should you just because other women have said that's important, 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:19.760 or society has said you must be natural. If you 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.560 cannot do it, you should not feel bad about that. 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.520 And I think that's what doctor Charon Malone is speaking to. 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.280 We just said, okay, we should. 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:34.000 Suffer, and not only women have they traditionally not been 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:38.080 listened to. You know, the term hysterical, But the amount 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:43.280 of money spent on research is just absurd when you 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:47.719 compare male illnesses with women. Women for so long have 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:49.839 been just viewed as small men. 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:53.640 Until nineteen ninety three that we were even used in 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:55.000 clinical trials. 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:58.200 Which is insane. And I did a podcast with Susan Dominus, 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:01.920 a New York Times writer, in April twenty twenty three. Yes, 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:05.080 that was one of the most shame changing articles. It 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.240 was a cover story in the New York Times magazine 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:10.600 and it was really about the history of hormone replacement 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.600 therapy in Naomi. I lived through this because I was 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:17.200 covering that study to some degree, and it got completely 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:21.680 botched in the messaging. And it's probably a little too 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:25.240 complicated for us to go really go deep into it. 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:28.920 But let's just kind of give a refresher on what 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:34.160 happened to the Women's Health Initiative and why it was stopped. 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:37.560 And what I think about, Naomi is all those lost 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:43.240 years of research that could have helped develop certain therapies 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:46.640 for women, therapies that people like I could take, you know, 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:50.800 as somebody who has hormone receptor positive breast cancer but 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.840 was on the patch for many years loved it. I 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:57.160 can't tell you how much I miss estrogen, but it 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:02.960 was really misconstruction and mishandled by the NIH. Can we 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.720 kind of give a brief premer on it. 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:08.680 Yes, So the study was stopped in two thousand and 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:13.480 two because they found that they thought there was a 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:18.000 discovery of breast cancer that was caused by HRT. They 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:23.160 created the study to see if heart disease was actually 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.800 going to be diminished. 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:31.000 For women postman apostle women, primarily because they thought it 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:35.360 would be efficacious in reducing heart disease. And they showed 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:39.280 a very very very slight risk of breast cancer, and 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:44.200 they kind of gave this blanket statement or it was misconstrued, 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:46.920 and then it was in the media, got applified by 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:53.280 the media, basically scaring everyone away from hormone replacement. 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:55.920 And not just women who were taking it, doctors who 0:08:55.920 --> 0:09:00.480 were subscribing it. Everyone literally flushed their horme bones down 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:05.400 the toilet and the media went berserk, and then doctors 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:10.839 to this day still hold on to that that discovery 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:14.400 that was unfounded that has now been pedled back on. 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:18.200 But people are just left with this enormous. 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:21.040 Fear right and there are I mean, in fairness, there 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.200 are some women who probably shouldn't take estuary. 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:26.319 Of course, it's and that's what I go in. 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:29.360 Therapy, right, who have a history of breast cancer, who 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:32.360 have had breast cancer, et cetera. But it just got 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:36.720 completely distorted in such a way that it not only 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.720 scared women, but it kind of stopped the research too. 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:43.160 Right, Yes, and then a whole generation of women went 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:47.960 untreated virtually. So what I wanted to do is in 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:53.760 the book is really go deep into that with doctors research. 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:57.720 And again I am not here on the soapbox saying 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:01.240 take HRT. What is safe for you? What is your 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:05.880 choice is up to you. But I encourage every woman 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.800 to make sure they ask their doctor for the full 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:13.800 spectrum of options, based on their medical history, based on 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:17.760 their symptoms, based on the risk benefit. And I don't 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:20.280 want them to have a doctor be in a situation 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:23.839 where the doctor is just plain gatekeeping, right, And I'm 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:27.800 not saying they shouldn't be kept from taking these drugs. 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:31.920 It's just the conversation, right, Everyone should be allowed to 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:32.839 have that conversation. 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:34.960 One thing that you point out, which I think is 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:38.800 so important, which I mentioned, Naomi, is that estrogen is 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:43.960 this wonder hormone. I mean, it is really responsible for 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:47.440 I think in many ways, and you can correct me 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:52.080 if I'm wrong, but brain health, sexual health, skin health. 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:56.600 You know, I started doing HRT when I was anchoring 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:59.360 the CBS Evening News because I thought, I do not 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:03.320 want to have like the brain a senior moment when 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.160 I don't have it. By the way, when like somebody's 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:10.280 telling me the latest economic report and I'd be like, wait, 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:15.840 what on live television. I also did it because of bones, 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:19.960 and you know, in a vain way, I wanted my 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:24.679 skin to be good. And I think that people don't 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:29.000 appreciate what a key role estrogen plays because it also 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:33.960 is a hormone responsible for you feeling good. I sort 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:36.959 of got depressed when I went through menopause, and I 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.240 think it was because my estrogen was decreasing. 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:44.920 So there's still so much debate around it about the 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:49.200 benefits of estrogen. You know. It's it's so interesting because 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:53.280 we had that discovery and then the media and then 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:56.320 that's been pedaled back and doctors are getting riled up 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:59.719 about it, and then women are saying, yes, I've got 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.720 to have estrogen, And now there's been another you know 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:06.560 curve that has where doctors are saying, well, the benefits 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:09.400 are not what everyone is saying on social media. 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:11.959 Oh really. Well, I also think even thet. 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:15.000 I wrote the book, really you know, still debate to 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:15.640 this day. 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:18.079 But I also think a lot of people who aren't 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:20.760 experts are offering opinions on social media. 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.720 That's true. So you have to have to be really careful, 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.880 and you have to really do the research on your 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:30.120 own based on your medical history. 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.000 And find a doctor who has time to talk to you, 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:33.840 the one you trust. 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:36.640 Yeah, and I feel for these doctors who you know, 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:41.280 they have their eight to ten minute session slots and 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:44.120 you know, three minutes of those you're getting undressed. And 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:47.319 you know, God forbid if you burst into tears because 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:50.520 you've been dealing with you know, struggles in your life as. 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:52.800 You tell these very personal stories. 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:58.720 Yeah. So it's it's it's really something to consider carefully 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:04.600 and with deep, deep research. But for me, I believe 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:08.880 my quality of life has improved. It's safe. 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:09.160 For me. 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:13.640 I've trusted my doctors, I do my blood work, and 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:18.280 I'm all about bone health. For me, I'm pretty sure 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:20.240 it is keeping my bone strong. 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:25.320 And you're blonde and your petite, so you're at risk 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:27.920 for osteoporosis. 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.480 Absolutely, and it's in my family. So I have to 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:32.679 make sure that I you know, and a lot of that. 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:34.880 I have to protect my bones with exercise. 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:36.760 Right, I was going to say, come lift some weights 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:37.880 with I've just started. 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.679 I weigh that all the time as much as I can. 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:44.120 It's the most boring kind of workout. 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:45.160 But it is put on some good music. 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.440 It can be music and have an entertaining you know, 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:53.160 gym buddy, Yeah, you know so. I mean I sometimes 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:55.560 do it at home with videos. I sometimes go to 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.079 the gym, but yeah, it's very important. 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.439 It's hard for me just in the category is when 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:06.480 I was diagnosed with hormone receptor positive breast cancer. Unfortunately 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:09.760 it was early. Not only did they take me off 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:14.000 estrogen my patch, I missed my patch, but they also 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:19.080 put me on aromatase inhibitors, which basically get rid of 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:23.640 any sintella of estrogen I might have coursing through my veins. 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:27.840 So it's kind of hard because now I have to 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:32.400 really focus on other ways to compensate for a lack 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:36.120 of estrogen through exercise and supplements ET cetera. 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:38.480 And how do you feel. 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:43.400 I mean, you know, I'm making do I generally feel 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:45.400 pretty well? I take care of myself and. 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:49.200 Night sweats or any of that still or. 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:52.920 Not too much. I had night sweats, I never had 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:54.920 hot flashes. They sound miserable. 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:59.600 Yeah, I had, yeah, the worst night sweats And sometimes 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:03.640 still one might sneak up on me and a few 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:08.080 hot flashes. But yeah, the night sweats can lead. You know, 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:13.960 obviously a disturbed sleep can lead to all kinds of things, depression, anxiety, 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:19.200 that memory blip thing. And so many women talk about 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:21.720 how they can be in a meeting with filled with 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:26.320 men and talking and then suddenly they lose a word 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.880 and that causes real anxiety and then you lose your 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:33.400 focus in the meeting and it can be very you know, 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.480 you can just flood with shame, right and not be 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:41.760 able to explain it to your colleagues. Like so you know, 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.040 again going back to why I wrote the book was 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:48.400 to create not just education, but community. And you know, 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:49.760 we need. 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:52.080 To support, right and like if that happens, and. 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:56.400 In every place, not just at home or in our friendships, 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.520 our relationship, but in the workplace as well. This is 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:02.920 a very normal part of life, and we should have 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:08.480 support and compassion and empathy, and like we do when 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:12.040 our kids are going through puberty, which is a different 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:18.480 kind of hormonal disruption, but it's it's real, and you know, 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.800 we have empathy when a teenager slams the door in 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:26.120 our face, we understand where it's coming from. But when 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.880 a woman is going through menopause and her hormones are 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:34.280 plummeting and she's having angst or you know, my kids 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.640 get furious with me if I you know, forget what 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.800 I'm saying, or mom just focus, you know, and I 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.600 feel bad, but there's no I mean, I try to 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:47.800 make them understand it, but they haven't been there, have they. 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.360 So so yeah. 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:53.200 The community is important and also demanding more of our 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.600 healthcare system and the medical establishment that they need to 0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:06.919 pay attention to this. If you want to get smarter 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:10.120 every morning with a breakdown of the news and fascinating 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:13.600 takes on health and wellness and pop culture, sign up 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.119 for our daily newsletter, wake Up Call by going to 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:28.439 Katiecuric dot com. One of the things I thought was 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.200 so important that you talk about in the book, Naomi, 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:35.120 is there's a whole panoply of symptoms that accompany both 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:41.200 perimenopause and menopause, and I think doctors often don't connect 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.359 the dots. For example, you talked about someone in the 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:48.399 book who had heart issues and she was afraid to drive, 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:51.520 and she had gone to the cardiologist. Can you tell 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:52.119 that story. 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:55.919 Yeah, that came from doctor Kelly Casperson, she was a 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:59.040 doctor as well. Yeah, and she was having hot palpitations, 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:03.800 which is a very common symptom. Again, I had that 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:08.600 too and didn't know, but I also had been diagnosed 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:12.320 with a heart murmur very long ago. But this woman 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.040 was literally at the point where she had to go 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:19.600 and get an EKG and they said, no, you're fine. 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:23.480 And then the doctor said, well, how about we test 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:27.680 your doctor her friend or doctor, doctor Keli Caspusen said 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:30.960 let's test your hormones, let's test your bloods, and sure enough, 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:32.880 she was in menopause. And she said, I'm pretty sure 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:34.720 that's what it is. And this is a woman who 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:35.720 was about to give up. 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.640 Driving, right because she was afraid that she would yeah, 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:42.240 some hard heart attack, yeah, driving her kids or something. 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:45.480 But I think that's also so illustrative of the fact 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:49.440 that even doctors don't study this. They spend very little 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:53.080 time in medical school studying it. So when these symptoms 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:57.200 are presented to medical professionals, they often. 0:18:57.040 --> 0:19:00.639 Connecting the dots. I mean every time I do a movie, 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:03.919 I have to fill out a questionnaire, a medical questionnaire, 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:07.680 and it's like a hundred questions. I was ticking night 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:13.880 sweats for a good eight years and no one said, oh, 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.480 that could be you know, they were I even say 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:18.680 it in the book. There's one moment where they think 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:24.000 it could be TB tuberculosis because that's a symptom. No 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:28.359 one signaled it as that, and I was worried. I 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:31.639 was like, what about my night sweat? Oh, that's probably analogy. 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:35.960 Maybe you know I have some food or that extra 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:40.160 glass of wine or you know, again like oh it's 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:43.399 something I did. My fault, my fault, you know. And 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:47.080 skin was another big problem for me as an actor, 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:50.480 working under hot lights, lots of makeup day and day. 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:53.160 Out, because you have extremely dry skin. I have very 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:56.360 dry skin, irristraated. Do you get eczema? 0:19:56.760 --> 0:20:01.439 I get roseatia? I used to and yeah, I was 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:05.640 really like having these moments where I was scratching off 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:08.360 my skin. It was red irritated. I didn't know what 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:11.760 was happening. I went to the dermatologist multiple times, got 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.600 ointment that was soothing for a minute, but then it 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.919 would recur. And I had no idea that that was 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:21.920 related to menophause, and the doctors neither. 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:27.560 Your story, Naomi, was particularly traumatic because, as you mentioned, 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:30.200 you learned you were going through menopause at thirty six, 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:33.680 and it coincided with you trying to have a family. 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:38.120 So that was sort of a double whammy for you, 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:43.639 wasn't It talked about that period of your life and 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:46.520 what you experience when you learn that. 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:54.000 Yeah, it was shocking and lonely and scary, and I 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:58.679 knew I really wanted to be a mother, and I 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:05.320 went into all kinds of panic. I it wasn't a 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:10.080 candidate for IVF. I tried clonid, I tried IUIS. 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.320 I felt so for you as you were talking about 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:15.120 this journey. 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:17.920 Yeah, and there was a lot of shame that came 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:21.119 up with it, like if I didn't have my fertility, 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:25.119 I didn't have my worth or something, which is absurd. 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:28.520 There are lots of ways to become a mother, but 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:33.919 I just was self loathing, flagellating all of it. I 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:37.840 felt terrible about myself and I felt like it was 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:40.679 me that had caused it. I had ruined my body. 0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:45.480 It was really terrible. I eventually found this fantastic book 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:49.520 because I had what's called a high FSH level follicle 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:55.720 stimulating hormone, and this book became my savior. Again. Why 0:21:55.760 --> 0:21:58.760 I wanted a book, you know, because I would read 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:01.439 that book secretly. I've tied that book. 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:02.520 What was it called again? 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:08.040 It was called Inconceivable by Julia Indichova, and she also 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:11.520 had a high f SH level and she went through 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:16.200 different ways of how to create a lower level. And 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:20.879 for whatever reason, whether it was the book, I also 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:24.600 was trying Chinese herbs. I went to China. There's a 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:25.680 funny story. 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:28.200 With the translator and the doctor and. 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:31.119 It happened to be filming there and I found my 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:36.480 way to a herbalist. So, you know, I don't ever 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:39.560 want to presume to, you know, push any of these 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:43.320 ideas on anyone. What works for you. I mean, if 0:22:43.359 --> 0:22:46.840 I had been told just cut the toenails off the 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:49.280 off your dog and eat them, I would have. I 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:54.240 would have. I wanted a baby so badly and nothing 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:59.320 was working for me, and it created such depression in 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:05.000 me and a sense of failure. But it shouldn't have. 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:05.960 It shouldn't have. 0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:10.360 But I think also the one of the lessons is 0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:14.960 that you had no idea that you had a finite 0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:18.240 period of time. Yeah, and that might have changed some 0:23:18.400 --> 0:23:23.600 of your choices if you had been aware that perimenopause 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:25.199 can start very early. 0:23:25.560 --> 0:23:29.879 Yes, exactly right. Yeah, I mean I think I knew 0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:33.960 that fertility changes, it slows down at thirty five, but 0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:38.919 I didn't know that, Yeah, perimenopause can be And by 0:23:38.960 --> 0:23:41.440 the way, that word was not mentioned to me, which 0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:45.679 feels like a much softer word. I did know. I 0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:49.000 did remember that my mom had said she went into 0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:51.560 early menopause at forty five, but I was still a 0:23:51.600 --> 0:23:54.920 long way from that, right, And I also knew that 0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:57.879 there were women around me in Hollywood and other places. 0:23:58.440 --> 0:24:03.600 Sometimes, by the way, just parenthetically, I think that sort 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:06.800 of does a disservice because I think a lot of 0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:10.520 times these women and I'm happy for them. I'm not 0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:16.640 saying anything negative. I'm thrilled they're having children. But sometimes 0:24:16.680 --> 0:24:20.719 I think people don't appreciate it's through IVF or you know, 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:23.679 other means, And I think that we have to be 0:24:23.800 --> 0:24:28.719 more honest with young women about fertility declining as you 0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:31.760 get older, you know, just so they can make decisions 0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:34.399 if they want to freeze their eggs or whatever it is. 0:24:34.840 --> 0:24:37.240 But I think there was a period of time people 0:24:37.280 --> 0:24:42.280 had these unrealistic expectations that you could have babies well 0:24:42.320 --> 0:24:45.760 into your forties, and it's often not very easy. I 0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:48.440 know you talk about the Miscarriac rait for example. 0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:52.720 Yes, and also, by the way, I tried to freeze 0:24:52.720 --> 0:24:55.679 my eggs in my early thirties, right when my career 0:24:55.880 --> 0:24:58.959