Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm
Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Manky listener Discretion is advised.
Speaker 2: Many years ago, I was investigating one of America's most
Speaker 2: notorious haunted prisons, Eastern State Penitentiary. I was using a
Speaker 2: laser grid down one of the corridors, and as I
Speaker 2: sat and waited, a shadow figure moved into the laser grid.
Speaker 2: If a live person walks into the path of a laser,
Speaker 2: you see them, You see the pinpoint of the laser
Speaker 2: on their person. But for some reason, when a shadow
Speaker 2: figure walks into the laser grid, the laser points disappear,
Speaker 2: leaving a perfect outline. I have no idea why this happens,
Speaker 2: but it's why I enjoy using this piece of equipment
Speaker 2: so much so. In this case, I watched for quite
Speaker 2: some time as this shadow person walked in and out
Speaker 2: of my laser. I tried talking to them, tried calling out,
Speaker 2: but they never seemed to even notice I was there.
Speaker 2: It made me wonder who haunts prisons? Why on earth
Speaker 2: would anyone decide to stay here, assuming they have some
Speaker 2: sort of free will.
Speaker 1: Well, let's discuss that.
Speaker 2: And many other things as we visit another of America's
Speaker 2: very haunted prisons, the Brushy Mountain Penitentiary. I'm Amy Brunei,
Speaker 2: and this is haunted road. Picture a historic prison, one
Speaker 2: with dingy hallways lined with barred cells, a courtyard surrounded
Speaker 2: by a stone wall, and a constant, pervasive threat of
Speaker 2: violence that hangs over the facility. It's likely that the
Speaker 2: place you're imagining bears a striking resemblance to the Brushy
Speaker 2: Mountain State Penitentiary. It's a Gothic Revival style abandoned prison
Speaker 2: in Petros, Tennessee. That's a small town of a five
Speaker 2: hundred people, which sits roughly an hour outside of Knoxville
Speaker 2: by car. The four story building is topped with battlements
Speaker 2: and laid out in the shape of a Celtic cross
Speaker 2: man hunt in the mountains. James Earl Ray and the
Speaker 2: Brushy Mountain Prison Breakout of nineteen seventy seven described it
Speaker 2: as quote looking like a castle from the dark ages.
Speaker 2: The walls are scarred with graffiti, including tally marks left
Speaker 2: by inmates who had nothing to do but count the days. Today,
Speaker 2: visitors can wander through the former cell blocks, gymnasium, cafeteria,
Speaker 2: and gym, which remain largely unchanged since the penitentiary was
Speaker 2: first built. Guests can also see the hole or the
Speaker 2: solitary confinement area in the basement's laundry room. Five cells
Speaker 2: sit in darkness with no window to let in the
Speaker 2: faintest hint of sunlight. There are also no toilets in
Speaker 2: the hole, just a bucket. On the exterior, Visitors may
Speaker 2: be surprised to see that the prison yard only has
Speaker 2: man made walls on three sides. According to Judah Chefs,
Speaker 2: who wrote Coal Cage's Crisis, The Arise of the Prison
Speaker 2: Economy in Central Appalachia, the unscalable Frozen Head Mountain itself
Speaker 2: ensures that no one can leave on the fourth side.
Speaker 2: The penitentiary was built in eighteen ninety six. At the time,
Speaker 2: it was only the second state prison in all of Tennessee,
Speaker 2: and there was a large demand for a new facility.
Speaker 2: This was particularly true because of the so called Black Codes.
Speaker 2: According to Tim Murphy of Discover America, at that time,
Speaker 2: there were a large number of racially motivated arrests, all
Speaker 2: part of an effort to intimidate and disenfranchise black Americans.
Speaker 2: Police would charge countless black people with minor offenses, just
Speaker 2: so they'd have an excuse to throw them behind bars.
Speaker 2: Sure enough, by eighteen ninety eight, eighty four percent of
Speaker 2: the inmates at Brushy Mountain Penitentiary were black. But there
Speaker 2: was another reason that Tennis needed a new facility, because
Speaker 2: incarcerated people could be put to work for low wages,
Speaker 2: and so the detention center was built very near a
Speaker 2: state run coal mine. This allowed officials to exploit the laborers,
Speaker 2: paying them very little for the dangerous, difficult work that
Speaker 2: they did. Every year, the inmates successfully extracted about three
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand pounds of coal, and Tennessee profited
Speaker 2: handsomely from their work. The arrangement also helped the state
Speaker 2: deal with overcrowding. At one point, officials roughly doubled the
Speaker 2: prison's capacity. They achieved this by forcing some of the
Speaker 2: inmates to work twelve hour shifts during the day while
Speaker 2: others worked twelve hours at night. That way, they could
Speaker 2: assign two men to each bed. Now mining work was dangerous.
Speaker 2: In his book, Tim Schef noted that the shafts near
Speaker 2: Brushy Mountain had especially high concentrations of methane. It was
Speaker 2: almost routine for the work sites to explode code, killing inmates,
Speaker 2: and if an incarcerated person refused to perform the life
Speaker 2: threatening tasks, they were often punished with beatings. The prisoners
Speaker 2: worked in the mines until nineteen sixty six, when the
Speaker 2: coal extraction program was shut down. An article with the
Speaker 2: Clarksville Leaf Chronicles cited several factors that played into this decision. First,
Speaker 2: state officials had finally concluded that the work was dangerous
Speaker 2: and detrimental to their goals of rehabilitating convicted people. But
Speaker 2: perhaps just as importantly, the mountain's coal reserves were running
Speaker 2: low and there was no more profit in the work program.
Speaker 2: So from that point onward, Rushy Mountain State Penitentiary operated
Speaker 2: like a more traditional prison. Researchers have identified some of
Speaker 2: the spirits within Brushy Mountain, including one that may be
Speaker 2: James Earl Ray. When researchers went to his former cell
Speaker 2: and played a clip of Martin Luther King Junior's I
Speaker 2: have a dream speech, they heard a disc embodied voice
Speaker 2: respond it said hush. And Jack Jett, who was stabbed
Speaker 2: to death outside the gym, is also said to still
Speaker 2: linger near the place where he died. When people stop by,
Speaker 2: they often feel a sudden sensation of dread, as reported
Speaker 2: on fright find. It's also quite common for the temperature
Speaker 2: there to drop with no warning. Fright Find also reports
Speaker 2: that some people have seen the receiver on the nearby
Speaker 2: payphone lift off the hook on its own than hang.
Speaker 1: Itself back up.
Speaker 2: There are also reports of a ghost known as Waterhead.
Speaker 2: Lucas Lawson wrote in A Haunted Place that Waterhead may
Speaker 2: have been a former incarcerated kitchen worker. He's often spotted
Speaker 2: in the cafeteria. That book also described another pair of spirits,
Speaker 2: James and Leroy. James tends to stay in the Sea block,
Speaker 2: but apparently if someone offers the specter a cigarette he'll
Speaker 2: smoke it. Leroy sticks more to the D block and
Speaker 2: is said to be more attention seeking. Researchers have heard
Speaker 2: a voice saying Leroy and often catch him following them
Speaker 2: through the facility. There's also a female spirit who roams
Speaker 2: through the courtyard, Bonnie. No one is entirely sure who
Speaker 2: she is or how she came to haunt the building.
Speaker 2: Dale Kasmarek of the Ghost Research Facility noted that the
Speaker 2: penitentiary never housed women, however she came to be there.
Speaker 2: Kelly Ryankey of WATE claims that Bonnie seems to especially
Speaker 2: love music. If anyone plays a tune, she'll dance along
Speaker 2: with it. Like many haunted locations, the Brushy Mountain State
Speaker 2: Penitentiary is also a hot spot for shadow figures, disembodied growls,
Speaker 2: voices and footsteps, and incidents where visitors feel someone pushing
Speaker 2: or scratching them. In some cases, these encounters draw blood.
Speaker 2: The prison's chapel and the whole are especially spiritually active.
Speaker 2: The chapel is often full of cold spots, and researchers
Speaker 2: have captured EVPs of religiously charged language that talk about
Speaker 2: hell and pain. Freightfeind also notes that objects often move
Speaker 2: on their own there. As for the whole, guests report
Speaker 2: the sound of pigs in its confines. Ryan Willis of
Speaker 2: Knox News speculated that these noises have a religious significance.
Speaker 2: One Bible story describes Jesus sending a legion of demons
Speaker 2: into a group of pigs. It's unclear how that connects
Speaker 2: to the solitary confinement cells, but the eerie sounds are
Speaker 2: hard to explain any other way. In order to better
Speaker 2: understand the Brushy Mountain State Penitentiary's secrets. I am talking
Speaker 2: with Jamie Brock coming up next. Now, Jamie's family goes
Speaker 2: back to the land before the penitentiary was ever even built,
Speaker 2: and she's been there for quite some time. She's got
Speaker 2: some really great stories to share with us, So stick around.
Speaker 2: We'll get to that right after the break, all right.
Speaker 2: So I am now joined by Jamie Brock, who the
Speaker 2: entire world told me she was the person I needed
Speaker 2: to talk to when it came to Brushy Mountain. So
Speaker 2: I'm so excited to have you on the program. This
Speaker 2: has been kind of a trend this season is that
Speaker 2: I seem to be covering a lot of locations I
Speaker 2: haven't been to. It's just been very exciting for me
Speaker 2: because I've been to so many places, but this season
Speaker 2: we just kind of really went outside the box. So
Speaker 2: I feel like I've been there at this point, but
Speaker 2: I think I really need to go. There is sore,
Speaker 2: I know, So tell me please.
Speaker 1: How did you become affiliated with the property.
Speaker 3: So my family was original owners of the property, so
Speaker 3: we signed this over in eighteen ninety four and they
Speaker 3: built the prison in eighteen ninety five, and so it
Speaker 3: was written in the least agreement that the family could
Speaker 3: always work here, questions ask, and the state of Tennessee
Speaker 3: honored that, and so we've always been here linked somehow.
Speaker 3: And so these guys that's doing this now with the
Speaker 3: distillery and everything that they're doing now has just kept
Speaker 3: us involved. Oversee the prison for them, and my son
Speaker 3: is their master distiller, so they still have the family
Speaker 3: here and have us involved.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 2: I love when there's like a family connection to a
Speaker 2: location because it just means that I think that your
Speaker 2: heart is probably in it, you know, one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm a little I'm a little partial to this place.
Speaker 3: I try to stay in my lane as much as possible,
Speaker 3: but it's my baby. I've got a special place for it.
Speaker 3: And that's kind of how I got linked in.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: I was going to other locations and doing my little
Speaker 3: ghost hunts and stuff there. But once this shut down,
Speaker 3: we immediately came in. We had family with keys, so
Speaker 3: of course we came in and done our little thing.
Speaker 3: And so we've been here since oh nine doing it.
Speaker 2: I think that's great. You know, some people inherit castles
Speaker 2: or keys to keys to mansions. You've got keys to
Speaker 2: a really cool penitentiary. Which I'm pretty jealous of, to
Speaker 2: be honest. So along those lines, like, obviously you knew
Speaker 2: about you know, you've known about the location and what's
Speaker 2: gone on there, like historically speaking, when you went in
Speaker 2: there in two thousand and nine and you were like,
Speaker 2: I want to do the paranormal tours, how did you
Speaker 2: know it was haunted? Like had you heard stories coming
Speaker 2: out of it when it was in operation?
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were always told crazy just off the wall
Speaker 3: horror stories. Was always we always heard those stories growing up,
Speaker 3: but you know it was the of course, we always thought,
Speaker 3: you know, they're making that up. That's a little you know,
Speaker 3: they're trying to scare us, you know. But once I
Speaker 3: got in here, though, and I started going through ledgers
Speaker 3: and finding everything, Yeah, they probably sugarcoated that a little bit.
Speaker 3: It was. It was every bit as bad as they
Speaker 3: said it was. And then some.
Speaker 2: It sounds like it like I've gone into the history
Speaker 2: a bit and it sounds like it, which would which
Speaker 2: would explain I think why there's activity there when it
Speaker 2: was in operation. Did employees or inmates did they report
Speaker 2: paranormal happenings?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Now the inmates especially that come back and do our
Speaker 3: day tours or you know, sometimes they'll just come back
Speaker 3: for a visit and do a walk through and they'll
Speaker 3: report things that they witnessed well while they're you know,
Speaker 3: like they've reported a period dressed inmate on a bloc
Speaker 3: side that looks like he was a coal miner, you
Speaker 3: know that, but he's in his stripes, but he's dirty.
Speaker 3: They described him that like that walking in D Block.
Speaker 3: They you know, they've come back. Those cells are really
Speaker 3: small and D blocking, and we've only got one bunk
Speaker 3: in him. Now originally there would have been two bunks
Speaker 3: in each cell, but these, you know, like one story
Speaker 3: that sticks out. We had an inmate that came back
Speaker 3: and he's a preacher today and he you know, he
Speaker 3: just come back and asked me what all we caught there,
Speaker 3: and he just broke down and started crying. You know,
Speaker 3: he was like, my religion tells me I'm not supposed
Speaker 3: to believe in this and or this isn't supposed to
Speaker 3: be this way, but I know what I witnessed. I
Speaker 3: know what I've seen every day. And he talked about
Speaker 3: like shadow figures coming and going through his cell where
Speaker 3: D Block sets though it set where the original wooden
Speaker 3: structure set, So I think a lot of that may
Speaker 3: be residual in there, although we do tend to get
Speaker 3: some intelligent stuff that comes through from time to time,
Speaker 3: but you know, but for the most part, it's like,
Speaker 3: you know, they're just passing, passing through.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, It's funny whenever I investigate, obviously, I
Speaker 2: find myself investigating a lot of prisons and penitentiaries, and
Speaker 2: one of the things I do going in is I never,
Speaker 2: you know, pass judgment on whoever I'm encountering. Like, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm speaking to people I can't see, and I never
Speaker 2: assume why they're there or what their history was. And
Speaker 2: you know, I think sometimes people go in with preconceived
Speaker 2: notions of who they're talking to. They assume every inmate
Speaker 2: is like a terrible person, which is so far from
Speaker 2: the truth exactly. And so I can't imagine, you know,
Speaker 2: being in that situation as an inmate and experiencing, you know,
Speaker 2: things that are paranormal in nature and you know, potentially
Speaker 2: terrifying and things that you can't understand, and probably not
Speaker 2: really having anyone to turn to to talk about it.
Speaker 2: So I feel like that's why that man probably got
Speaker 2: so emotional yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and with that, you know, when we first started
Speaker 3: coming in here, we were a little probably a lot
Speaker 3: out of line when he come to that, Like we
Speaker 3: would try to provoke to get you know, some activity,
Speaker 3: but it always seemed to us like when we were
Speaker 3: doing that, we were we would just shut it down.
Speaker 3: You know. It was like, yeah, you know, you're not
Speaker 3: going to disrespect me, and you know or whatnot. But
Speaker 3: one night we were we were just sitting there and
Speaker 3: we were like, you know, we know you're here. You know,
Speaker 3: we know you're here. We know you have a story
Speaker 3: to tell if you'll just you know, give us a something.
Speaker 3: They were interacting, but it was just like we could
Speaker 3: only get so much. And then once we did that,
Speaker 3: it was like the gates opened up. It was like,
Speaker 3: you know, we started getting we'd catch numbers on our
Speaker 3: EVPs and stuff, and we'd get to looking at that
Speaker 3: and a lot of times it would be like an
Speaker 3: inmate number, or it could be a date or whatever.
Speaker 3: But you know, as time went on, we noticed that
Speaker 3: with these men here, we did have the worst of
Speaker 3: the worst that came through here. So we had some
Speaker 3: really nasty individuals that came through this prison. But in
Speaker 3: the very beginning that really wasn't the case. What we're
Speaker 3: finding is a lot of them were put in here
Speaker 3: for things like cussing and drinking and dancing, you know,
Speaker 3: and they've lost their life while here, you know. So
Speaker 3: you know, and so I tell everyone respect, respect these men.
Speaker 3: And not only that, but the prison itself is built
Speaker 3: in the shape of an upside down cross, which they
Speaker 3: did on purpose to send a message these men were unworthy.
Speaker 3: And in our cemetery, We've got over two thousand graves
Speaker 3: here in our cemetery. But they buried them like which
Speaker 3: in today's world maybe it wouldn't be such a huge deal,
Speaker 3: but you know, back in the day, it would have
Speaker 3: been a really big deal. But these men Christians bury
Speaker 3: their dead face in the east and they buried or
Speaker 3: dead to the west, so they even judged them, you know.
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of reasons for unrest here. You know.
Speaker 3: It's a lot went on.
Speaker 2: I mean, and if you think about it too, like
Speaker 2: in life, and I think we all make that mistake
Speaker 2: sometimes when we like I've definitely done that where I've
Speaker 2: been in a place where I just kind of assumed
Speaker 2: I knew who I was talking to and I've definitely
Speaker 2: said things and like, but then you come to that realization,
Speaker 2: you know, was the saying you get more bees or
Speaker 2: flies with honey, whatever it is, you know. But I
Speaker 2: also find so many times, just in my investigations that
Speaker 2: the way people are handled after death like it when
Speaker 2: it comes. I can't tell you how many spirits I
Speaker 2: have investigated because because they were upset with the way
Speaker 2: they were treated after death, like either they weren't buried
Speaker 2: when they wanted to be, or they weren't cremated when
Speaker 2: they wanted to be, or their headstone is incorrect, or
Speaker 2: they're you know, buried in the wrong place or and like,
Speaker 2: so it's surprising how important that is to people, and
Speaker 2: then to have that happen in the cemetery, like you're
Speaker 2: not worthy.
Speaker 1: We're not even going to bury you.
Speaker 2: You know, anyone who was religious, they would they're buried
Speaker 2: the wrong direction. They've already probably had so much you know, reflection,
Speaker 2: they've been in jail for however long. I can just
Speaker 2: see why that would cause issues. That's fascinating.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, we tell everyone that comes through, don't
Speaker 3: just focus on the prison itself, because this was Native
Speaker 3: American land before my family had it, and so we
Speaker 3: get a huge amount of that that comes through, so,
Speaker 3: you know, and I think a lot. Sometimes there's a
Speaker 3: lot that's coming through, you know that people are getting
Speaker 3: with that. So there's just been a lot that's happened
Speaker 3: here on this property.
Speaker 1: It's very interesting.
Speaker 2: When I was digging into the history, I was like, man,
Speaker 2: I can't believe I've never been to this place. But
Speaker 2: also it has closed, you know, fairly recently two thousand
Speaker 2: and nine, and the grand scheme of things is pretty recent.
Speaker 2: And I do love that it's kind of surviving in
Speaker 2: the functions that it is, just because I think it's
Speaker 2: really important these buildings kind of stay around for historic sense,
Speaker 2: whether you believe in ghosts or not. So when you
Speaker 2: get in there, it's two thousand and nine or whenever
Speaker 2: you get in there, like, what was the first thing
Speaker 2: that happened there that you went, oh my gosh, this
Speaker 2: place is haunted.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, what was the first there.
Speaker 1: Was so much or the most memorable.
Speaker 3: Probably the most memorable.
Speaker 4: Really, we we get one here we call Bonnie at
Speaker 4: the female We didn't house women here, but we have
Speaker 4: found a Bonnie in our family tree.
Speaker 3: So we think that's who it is. She's young, but
Speaker 3: she's one of the most vocal. We capture her a
Speaker 3: whole lot here. She you know, you may get her
Speaker 3: crying or giggling, and she likes to touch, loves music.
Speaker 3: But we kept getting her, and we really there was
Speaker 3: no story for her. But as time went on and
Speaker 3: we started bumping into old guards that worked here and
Speaker 3: things that they got to ask, they were like, have
Speaker 3: you caught the woman yet? You know, there's a woman
Speaker 3: in the courtyard and so, but we had captured her
Speaker 3: a numerous times. But she's playful, young, and so that
Speaker 3: was probably the one that stands out the most to me.
Speaker 3: But then and probably it would be D Block, we
Speaker 3: started getting something really nasty out of D Block, until
Speaker 3: to this day we get that. We actually shut d
Speaker 3: Block down for about two years. It got really nasty.
Speaker 3: People were getting scratched and different things, and then it
Speaker 3: became really nasty in our auditorium and so it's still
Speaker 3: there to this day. But we're getting some signs. Now
Speaker 3: I don't get to go and investigate like I used
Speaker 3: to because we've rented out, but we're getting told about
Speaker 3: some stuff that we do. I'm going to go in
Speaker 3: and try to figure it out one night. But I
Speaker 3: think it's gone back and forth between D Block and
Speaker 3: the auditorium. It's but it's nasty. It's a really nasty
Speaker 3: I don't like to call it demonic, but I if
Speaker 3: I've ever encountered something that, yeah, I don't know, it's nasty.
Speaker 2: Well, what I always tell people, and I guess this
Speaker 2: would be the place that would fit that this description
Speaker 2: the most is you know, people always ask me, you know,
Speaker 2: if you ever encountered anything demonic, And I remind people
Speaker 2: that there are folks in life who are as bad
Speaker 2: as bad can be, and that doesn't go away when
Speaker 2: they die and come back like you the worst of
Speaker 2: the worst murders rapistly, you know, and and yeah, and
Speaker 2: so it would make sense that either that could be
Speaker 2: one person or it could be just like an amalgamation
Speaker 2: of like a bunch of different entities kind of coming together,
Speaker 2: you know, with these kind of bad intentions. So but
Speaker 2: I do think you're right and that it will move,
Speaker 2: because you know, I think that we sometimes people make
Speaker 2: this mistake thinking that like, oh, it's just going to stay,
Speaker 2: that's it's in that area, But it's like, no, I
Speaker 2: think a lot of these have free oh and they
Speaker 2: can go wherever. And if they start kind of feel
Speaker 2: like oh people get scared of me or oh, like
Speaker 2: they could move throughout that whole building.
Speaker 1: So I'm really interested to see what you find out.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I mean with that when we close
Speaker 3: down D Block and people wasn't going in there, it moved,
Speaker 3: you know, and so now it's like people, it can
Speaker 3: be so nasty that people won't even go in there.
Speaker 3: They're like, no, I'm not I'm not even going there,
Speaker 3: you know. And so when it gets quiet, you know,
Speaker 3: then they start they're coming back and like reporting it
Speaker 3: in DE Block again. It's like, you know, it's almost
Speaker 3: like it's on the hunt, you know, it's it's looking
Speaker 3: for somebody, and I don't know, it's what gets me
Speaker 3: is the foul odor and that I don't know, it's
Speaker 3: just I mean, we do have some nasty ones. There's
Speaker 3: several nasty ones here, but not that nasty. That one
Speaker 3: that one gets me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think I find that really interesting. So
Speaker 2: now that's that leads me to like, so you know,
Speaker 2: you have people coming in and investigating pretty regularly, Like
Speaker 2: how often are people just like nope, I'm out, I'm
Speaker 2: done and just leaving.
Speaker 3: Well, usually when they come in and they're talking like
Speaker 3: oh yeah, I'm not worried or you know, it's it's
Speaker 3: almost like they're they're just like, okay, i'll show you.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: It's like I don't know, probably at least once a month, yeah,
Speaker 3: at least once a month, they'll they'll somebody will come
Speaker 3: in talking like you know, most people respect it. Occasionally
Speaker 3: you'll get somebody wanting to provoke or you know, demanding
Speaker 3: it to say its name or you know, and it
Speaker 3: proves it self. It usually proves itself. And I'll tell
Speaker 3: you something else. We've noticed, like, so I won't go
Speaker 3: in the auditorium if I've had like a really stressful day,
Speaker 3: or if I've had an argument with my husband, or
Speaker 3: if I'm sick or feel like I may be getting sick,
Speaker 3: I won't go in there. It's almost like it's waiting
Speaker 3: for a week length to come in there, you know,
Speaker 3: it's and so I always make sure I'm in a
Speaker 3: good frame of mind before I go in there. We
Speaker 3: have noticed that a lot of people that are feeling
Speaker 3: bad or yeah, drinking or just different things can like
Speaker 3: that that just kind of weakens their frame of mind.
Speaker 3: They're the first that'll come out and report something.
Speaker 1: I tell people that a lot.
Speaker 2: I'm like, before you go in and investigate, just be
Speaker 2: in like a positive space, you know, yes, And it's
Speaker 2: not even just like that, you know, a spirit could
Speaker 2: kind of upset you. It's also just like you have
Speaker 2: to be in the right frame of mind, like make
Speaker 2: clear decisions and like, you know, it's just like if
Speaker 2: you're walking if you're meeting someone who's a bad person
Speaker 2: in real life, you know, like someone who's just really
Speaker 2: mean and wants to pick on you and bully you.
Speaker 2: If you walk in smiling and you're like, hey, how's
Speaker 2: it going, Like they are instantly powerless, you know, as
Speaker 2: opposed to you walking in and being like I'm so scared,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, or or you would going for them
Speaker 2: and being like.
Speaker 1: You want to fight. You know, it's just totally different.
Speaker 2: But the second you're like, happiness is like you know,
Speaker 2: a bully's worst nightmare alive or dead. And so I'm
Speaker 2: like the most cheerful ghost hunter, which producers on TV
Speaker 2: shows hate because I'm always smiling and like I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: this is my defense man.
Speaker 3: I mean and that. You know, we have a lot
Speaker 3: of clowns here. We have a lot that like to
Speaker 3: prank and joke and you know, and they're happy, go lucky.
Speaker 3: There's got a story to tell. And that's why I
Speaker 3: tell everyone, you know, just go in open minded and
Speaker 3: you know, introduce yourself and ask him about you know,
Speaker 3: ask him about themselves, and give them the opportunity. But
Speaker 3: and usually they have a really good outcome with that.
Speaker 3: But you know, but like I said, now there is
Speaker 3: some here that you know, they they're like, we've got
Speaker 3: one in the hole. He's a I call him Pappo.
Speaker 3: I call him Papo because anytime we catch him on audio,
Speaker 3: he scuffed this rough, rough, old voice, and he's always complaining.
Speaker 3: He's like turn the light out. You know. It's like
Speaker 3: if you flip the light on him, it makes him mad.
Speaker 3: You know. It's like he just wants to be left alone.
Speaker 3: So and I just picture him as a little old
Speaker 3: man that just wants to be left alone.
Speaker 2: So we can say that, Yeah, you know, sometimes they'll
Speaker 2: retreat to the most you know, the darkest and most
Speaker 2: far away corners, even if they were the worst places
Speaker 2: there in operation. Yeah, but kind of like a lot,
Speaker 2: uh like kind of getting more positive. One of my
Speaker 2: favorite stories when I was digging through the history was
Speaker 2: about Geronimo the deer and and I was like, please
Speaker 2: tell me there's a deer ghost there.
Speaker 3: Yes, good, because we have we've caught the sound of hoods.
Speaker 3: But he had his own sale and he liked to
Speaker 3: eat cigarettes. So but yeah, now we've caught Geronimo. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love that. I just I thought that story was
Speaker 1: so endearing.
Speaker 2: And I liked that even when they had to move briefly,
Speaker 2: he went with them and like he was, you know,
Speaker 2: he was their body.
Speaker 1: So I thought that was so sweet.
Speaker 2: Now I'm fascinated by the history, uh and and the
Speaker 2: ghosts there, And I'm really glad that you were able
Speaker 2: to chat with me for a little bit and tell me,
Speaker 2: like what actually goes on there. Now I know that
Speaker 2: Brushy Mountain is open to the public, So how can
Speaker 2: people visit the penitentiary like either like a from touring
Speaker 2: perspective or ghost tour or investigation? How does all that work?
Speaker 3: So we do daytime tours from April. In April, we'll
Speaker 3: start out at four days a week and then we'll
Speaker 3: go into all week. But then in the fall, we'll
Speaker 3: start back in our days down again. But you can
Speaker 3: do daytime tours from April to November, and we do
Speaker 3: our paranormal tours. We do those year round and you
Speaker 3: can book those through our website tour brusheet dot com.
Speaker 3: And we do private overnights. We do four hour tours,
Speaker 3: and we do public so if you don't have a
Speaker 3: group and you don't have the money to rent it
Speaker 3: by yourself as a private we do sell individual tickets
Speaker 3: for public hunts.
Speaker 1: Also, yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2: People always ask me like, how do I meet people
Speaker 2: who to investigate. I'm like, just got to go on
Speaker 2: these public tours, these public investigations and meet your future friends.
Speaker 2: Like that's the way to do it.
Speaker 1: So I think that's awesome.
Speaker 3: We're talking, we're tossing it around. I don't know, it
Speaker 3: depends on but we're tossing around maybe when we shut
Speaker 3: down our daytime tours this come and fall, maybe offering
Speaker 3: daytime paranormal tours, because we did just as much in
Speaker 3: the day, you know, at night, but we do we
Speaker 3: capture more apparitions during the day here.
Speaker 2: So yes, I love a good daytime investigation. I can't
Speaker 2: stay up for these late nights anymore, those days are
Speaker 2: over for me.
Speaker 3: I yeah, it's hard and it gets.
Speaker 1: Cold, and oh no, thank you.
Speaker 2: I mean, I do it when I have to, but
Speaker 2: I like to start a nice afternoon into the early
Speaker 2: evening investigation. So I think that's a great idea.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate you doing this, And yeah, I'm excited
Speaker 2: to learn more and I really am going to try
Speaker 2: to get out there.
Speaker 1: I'm trying.
Speaker 2: My goal this year is to start like heading to
Speaker 2: some places that I just haven't been and just checking
Speaker 2: it out. So maybe you'll hear from me and we
Speaker 2: can arrange to you.
Speaker 3: You're always welcome. Well, thank you.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: Countless men serve time in the Brushy Mountain State Penitentiary.
Speaker 2: Some of them had committed violent crimes, others were guilty
Speaker 2: of petty offenses like loitering or vagrancy. All of them
Speaker 2: lost their freedom and brutal confinement. We can wonder why
Speaker 2: their ghosts remain behind bars even to this day. Perhaps
Speaker 2: they're staying willingly, still trying to pay their debt to society,
Speaker 2: or they've forgotten how to be free, or they may
Speaker 2: be cursed to live out the worst days of their lives.
Speaker 2: Their presence goes to show. Although it's officially no longer operational,
Speaker 2: the Brushy Mountain State Penitentiary will never be anything but
Speaker 2: a prison. I'm Amy Bruney and this was Haunted Road.
Speaker 2: Haunted Road is a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and
Speaker 2: Mild from Aaron Minky. Haunted Road is hosted and written
Speaker 2: by me Amy Bruney, with additional research by Cassandra de Alba.
Speaker 1: This show is.
Speaker 2: Edited and produced by supervising producer Rima el Kali, with
Speaker 2: executive producers Aaron Menke, Trevor Young, and Matt Frederick. Learn
Speaker 2: more about this show over at Grimandmild dot com, and
Speaker 2: for more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.