WEBVTT - They Would Hang Men by the Ceiling From Their Thumbs 0:00:01.160 --> 0:00:05.000 Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:08.840 and Mild from Aaron Manky listener Discretion is advised. 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.479 Many years ago, I was investigating one of America's most 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:23.000 notorious haunted prisons, Eastern State Penitentiary. I was using a 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:25.880 laser grid down one of the corridors, and as I 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:29.800 sat and waited, a shadow figure moved into the laser grid. 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:33.199 If a live person walks into the path of a laser, 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.159 you see them, You see the pinpoint of the laser 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.879 on their person. But for some reason, when a shadow 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:43.600 figure walks into the laser grid, the laser points disappear, 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:48.199 leaving a perfect outline. I have no idea why this happens, 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:51.680 but it's why I enjoy using this piece of equipment 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:55.760 so much so. In this case, I watched for quite 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:58.760 some time as this shadow person walked in and out 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:02.520 of my laser. I tried talking to them, tried calling out, 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:05.640 but they never seemed to even notice I was there. 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:11.559 It made me wonder who haunts prisons? Why on earth 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:15.080 would anyone decide to stay here, assuming they have some 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:16.039 sort of free will. 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:17.920 Well, let's discuss that. 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:21.880 And many other things as we visit another of America's 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:27.360 very haunted prisons, the Brushy Mountain Penitentiary. I'm Amy Brunei, 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:36.360 and this is haunted road. Picture a historic prison, one 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:40.959 with dingy hallways lined with barred cells, a courtyard surrounded 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:44.679 by a stone wall, and a constant, pervasive threat of 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:48.400 violence that hangs over the facility. It's likely that the 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:51.920 place you're imagining bears a striking resemblance to the Brushy 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:56.880 Mountain State Penitentiary. It's a Gothic Revival style abandoned prison 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:00.440 in Petros, Tennessee. That's a small town of a five 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:04.200 hundred people, which sits roughly an hour outside of Knoxville 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:08.760 by car. The four story building is topped with battlements 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:10.960 and laid out in the shape of a Celtic cross 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.120 man hunt in the mountains. James Earl Ray and the 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:18.120 Brushy Mountain Prison Breakout of nineteen seventy seven described it 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:21.640 as quote looking like a castle from the dark ages. 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:26.160 The walls are scarred with graffiti, including tally marks left 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:29.920 by inmates who had nothing to do but count the days. Today, 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:34.280 visitors can wander through the former cell blocks, gymnasium, cafeteria, 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:38.200 and gym, which remain largely unchanged since the penitentiary was 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:42.440 first built. Guests can also see the hole or the 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:46.960 solitary confinement area in the basement's laundry room. Five cells 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:49.840 sit in darkness with no window to let in the 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:53.440 faintest hint of sunlight. There are also no toilets in 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:58.040 the hole, just a bucket. On the exterior, Visitors may 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:00.720 be surprised to see that the prison yard only has 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:04.800 man made walls on three sides. According to Judah Chefs, 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.280 who wrote Coal Cage's Crisis, The Arise of the Prison 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:13.280 Economy in Central Appalachia, the unscalable Frozen Head Mountain itself 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:16.880 ensures that no one can leave on the fourth side. 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:20.440 The penitentiary was built in eighteen ninety six. At the time, 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.600 it was only the second state prison in all of Tennessee, 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:26.600 and there was a large demand for a new facility. 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:31.240 This was particularly true because of the so called Black Codes. 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:35.920 According to Tim Murphy of Discover America, at that time, 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:39.800 there were a large number of racially motivated arrests, all 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:43.720 part of an effort to intimidate and disenfranchise black Americans. 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:48.040 Police would charge countless black people with minor offenses, just 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:50.760 so they'd have an excuse to throw them behind bars. 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:54.720 Sure enough, by eighteen ninety eight, eighty four percent of 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:58.600 the inmates at Brushy Mountain Penitentiary were black. But there 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:02.080 was another reason that Tennis needed a new facility, because 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:05.600 incarcerated people could be put to work for low wages, 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:09.160 and so the detention center was built very near a 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:14.400 state run coal mine. This allowed officials to exploit the laborers, 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:17.839 paying them very little for the dangerous, difficult work that 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:22.159 they did. Every year, the inmates successfully extracted about three 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:26.240 hundred and fifty thousand pounds of coal, and Tennessee profited 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:30.279 handsomely from their work. The arrangement also helped the state 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:34.719 deal with overcrowding. At one point, officials roughly doubled the 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:38.440 prison's capacity. They achieved this by forcing some of the 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:41.839 inmates to work twelve hour shifts during the day while 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:44.960 others worked twelve hours at night. That way, they could 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:49.280 assign two men to each bed. Now mining work was dangerous. 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:52.280 In his book, Tim Schef noted that the shafts near 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:56.800 Brushy Mountain had especially high concentrations of methane. It was 0:04:56.880 --> 0:05:01.479 almost routine for the work sites to explode code, killing inmates, 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:05.679 and if an incarcerated person refused to perform the life 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:10.640 threatening tasks, they were often punished with beatings. The prisoners 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:13.640 worked in the mines until nineteen sixty six, when the 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:17.200 coal extraction program was shut down. An article with the 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:22.560 Clarksville Leaf Chronicles cited several factors that played into this decision. First, 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:26.000 state officials had finally concluded that the work was dangerous 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:30.520 and detrimental to their goals of rehabilitating convicted people. But 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:35.280 perhaps just as importantly, the mountain's coal reserves were running 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:38.400 low and there was no more profit in the work program. 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:42.720 So from that point onward, Rushy Mountain State Penitentiary operated 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:47.560 like a more traditional prison. Researchers have identified some of 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.920 the spirits within Brushy Mountain, including one that may be 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:54.760 James Earl Ray. When researchers went to his former cell 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:57.479 and played a clip of Martin Luther King Junior's I 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.880 have a dream speech, they heard a disc embodied voice 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:05.800 respond it said hush. And Jack Jett, who was stabbed 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:08.440 to death outside the gym, is also said to still 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:11.680 linger near the place where he died. When people stop by, 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:15.240 they often feel a sudden sensation of dread, as reported 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:18.560 on fright find. It's also quite common for the temperature 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:22.320 there to drop with no warning. Fright Find also reports 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:25.239 that some people have seen the receiver on the nearby 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.520 payphone lift off the hook on its own than hang. 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:29.400 Itself back up. 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.520 There are also reports of a ghost known as Waterhead. 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:38.240 Lucas Lawson wrote in A Haunted Place that Waterhead may 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:42.560 have been a former incarcerated kitchen worker. He's often spotted 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:47.680 in the cafeteria. That book also described another pair of spirits, 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.520 James and Leroy. James tends to stay in the Sea block, 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.960 but apparently if someone offers the specter a cigarette he'll 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:58.479 smoke it. Leroy sticks more to the D block and 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:02.160 is said to be more attention seeking. Researchers have heard 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:05.719 a voice saying Leroy and often catch him following them 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:10.160 through the facility. There's also a female spirit who roams 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:14.000 through the courtyard, Bonnie. No one is entirely sure who 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:16.560 she is or how she came to haunt the building. 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:20.840 Dale Kasmarek of the Ghost Research Facility noted that the 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:24.920 penitentiary never housed women, however she came to be there. 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:29.840 Kelly Ryankey of WATE claims that Bonnie seems to especially 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:33.640 love music. If anyone plays a tune, she'll dance along 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:37.880 with it. Like many haunted locations, the Brushy Mountain State 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:42.600 Penitentiary is also a hot spot for shadow figures, disembodied growls, 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:47.000 voices and footsteps, and incidents where visitors feel someone pushing 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:51.760 or scratching them. In some cases, these encounters draw blood. 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:56.200 The prison's chapel and the whole are especially spiritually active. 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.840 The chapel is often full of cold spots, and researchers 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:04.520 have captured EVPs of religiously charged language that talk about 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:09.000 hell and pain. Freightfeind also notes that objects often move 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:13.080 on their own there. As for the whole, guests report 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:16.800 the sound of pigs in its confines. Ryan Willis of 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:21.280 Knox News speculated that these noises have a religious significance. 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.400 One Bible story describes Jesus sending a legion of demons 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:28.679 into a group of pigs. It's unclear how that connects 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:31.880 to the solitary confinement cells, but the eerie sounds are 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:35.800 hard to explain any other way. In order to better 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:40.079 understand the Brushy Mountain State Penitentiary's secrets. I am talking 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:43.920 with Jamie Brock coming up next. Now, Jamie's family goes 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:47.720 back to the land before the penitentiary was ever even built, 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.400 and she's been there for quite some time. She's got 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:53.600 some really great stories to share with us, So stick around. 0:08:53.640 --> 0:09:09.679 We'll get to that right after the break, all right. 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:13.319 So I am now joined by Jamie Brock, who the 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.360 entire world told me she was the person I needed 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.600 to talk to when it came to Brushy Mountain. So 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:23.240 I'm so excited to have you on the program. This 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:25.400 has been kind of a trend this season is that 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:27.880 I seem to be covering a lot of locations I 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:31.000 haven't been to. It's just been very exciting for me 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:34.040 because I've been to so many places, but this season 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.080 we just kind of really went outside the box. So 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:38.720 I feel like I've been there at this point, but 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:41.800 I think I really need to go. There is sore, 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:45.240 I know, So tell me please. 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:47.880 How did you become affiliated with the property. 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:52.800 So my family was original owners of the property, so 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:58.040 we signed this over in eighteen ninety four and they 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:02.040 built the prison in eighteen ninety five, and so it 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:05.160 was written in the least agreement that the family could 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:08.679 always work here, questions ask, and the state of Tennessee 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:13.199 honored that, and so we've always been here linked somehow. 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:16.520 And so these guys that's doing this now with the 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:21.280 distillery and everything that they're doing now has just kept 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:24.960 us involved. Oversee the prison for them, and my son 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:28.199 is their master distiller, so they still have the family 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:29.760 here and have us involved. 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:30.600 Oh. 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:31.079 I love that. 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:34.360 I love when there's like a family connection to a 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:38.000 location because it just means that I think that your 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:41.160 heart is probably in it, you know, one hundred percent. 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:45.280 Yes, I'm a little I'm a little partial to this place. 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:50.400 I try to stay in my lane as much as possible, 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:54.199 but it's my baby. I've got a special place for it. 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:56.760 And that's kind of how I got linked in. 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:57.560 You know. 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:01.920 I was going to other locations and doing my little 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:05.600 ghost hunts and stuff there. But once this shut down, 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.120 we immediately came in. We had family with keys, so 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:11.880 of course we came in and done our little thing. 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:15.760 And so we've been here since oh nine doing it. 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:20.120 I think that's great. You know, some people inherit castles 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:24.880 or keys to keys to mansions. You've got keys to 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:28.080 a really cool penitentiary. Which I'm pretty jealous of, to 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:31.559 be honest. So along those lines, like, obviously you knew 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.400 about you know, you've known about the location and what's 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:37.800 gone on there, like historically speaking, when you went in 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:40.000 there in two thousand and nine and you were like, 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:43.240 I want to do the paranormal tours, how did you 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:46.000 know it was haunted? Like had you heard stories coming 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:47.760 out of it when it was in operation? 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:53.199 Yeah, we were always told crazy just off the wall 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:58.079 horror stories. Was always we always heard those stories growing up, 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.280 but you know it was the of course, we always thought, 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:04.520 you know, they're making that up. That's a little you know, 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:08.920 they're trying to scare us, you know. But once I 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:12.439 got in here, though, and I started going through ledgers 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:18.800 and finding everything, Yeah, they probably sugarcoated that a little bit. 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.480 It was. It was every bit as bad as they 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:24.280 said it was. And then some. 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:27.400 It sounds like it like I've gone into the history 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.960 a bit and it sounds like it, which would which 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.960 would explain I think why there's activity there when it 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:38.240 was in operation. Did employees or inmates did they report 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:39.920 paranormal happenings? 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:40.280 Yeah? 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:43.800 Now the inmates especially that come back and do our 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.920 day tours or you know, sometimes they'll just come back 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:50.240 for a visit and do a walk through and they'll 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:55.280 report things that they witnessed well while they're you know, 0:12:55.440 --> 0:13:00.839 like they've reported a period dressed inmate on a bloc 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:05.320 side that looks like he was a coal miner, you 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:08.199 know that, but he's in his stripes, but he's dirty. 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:12.880 They described him that like that walking in D Block. 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:18.240 They you know, they've come back. Those cells are really 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.920 small and D blocking, and we've only got one bunk 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:24.720 in him. Now originally there would have been two bunks 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:29.280 in each cell, but these, you know, like one story 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:31.640 that sticks out. We had an inmate that came back 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:36.679 and he's a preacher today and he you know, he 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.480 just come back and asked me what all we caught there, 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:41.800 and he just broke down and started crying. You know, 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:45.000 he was like, my religion tells me I'm not supposed 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:48.079 to believe in this and or this isn't supposed to 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.640 be this way, but I know what I witnessed. I 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.640 know what I've seen every day. And he talked about 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:57.680 like shadow figures coming and going through his cell where 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:03.679 D Block sets though it set where the original wooden 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:07.559 structure set, So I think a lot of that may 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.600 be residual in there, although we do tend to get 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:14.000 some intelligent stuff that comes through from time to time, 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:16.920 but you know, but for the most part, it's like, 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:20.520 you know, they're just passing, passing through. 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:25.280 Yeah, you know, It's funny whenever I investigate, obviously, I 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.720 find myself investigating a lot of prisons and penitentiaries, and 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:30.880 one of the things I do going in is I never, 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.000 you know, pass judgment on whoever I'm encountering. Like, you know, 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:37.000 I'm speaking to people I can't see, and I never 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:39.520 assume why they're there or what their history was. And 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:42.920 you know, I think sometimes people go in with preconceived 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:45.760 notions of who they're talking to. They assume every inmate 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:47.800 is like a terrible person, which is so far from 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:51.600 the truth exactly. And so I can't imagine, you know, 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:57.800 being in that situation as an inmate and experiencing, you know, 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:01.160 things that are paranormal in nature and you know, potentially 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:04.600 terrifying and things that you can't understand, and probably not 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.720 really having anyone to turn to to talk about it. 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:09.560 So I feel like that's why that man probably got 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:10.960 so emotional yeah. 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:14.280 Yeah, and with that, you know, when we first started 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:18.640 coming in here, we were a little probably a lot 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:22.200 out of line when he come to that, Like we 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:26.680 would try to provoke to get you know, some activity, 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.480 but it always seemed to us like when we were 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:31.880 doing that, we were we would just shut it down. 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:35.160 You know. It was like, yeah, you know, you're not 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:38.920 going to disrespect me, and you know or whatnot. But 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:41.760 one night we were we were just sitting there and 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:45.000 we were like, you know, we know you're here. You know, 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:48.240 we know you're here. We know you have a story 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:52.520 to tell if you'll just you know, give us a something. 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:56.080 They were interacting, but it was just like we could 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.200 only get so much. And then once we did that, 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.480 it was like the gates opened up. It was like, 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:06.880 you know, we started getting we'd catch numbers on our 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:10.120 EVPs and stuff, and we'd get to looking at that 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:12.400 and a lot of times it would be like an 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:16.600 inmate number, or it could be a date or whatever. 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:20.320 But you know, as time went on, we noticed that 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:24.320 with these men here, we did have the worst of 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:26.720 the worst that came through here. So we had some 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:30.520 really nasty individuals that came through this prison. But in 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:36.560 the very beginning that really wasn't the case. What we're 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:38.800 finding is a lot of them were put in here 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:43.720 for things like cussing and drinking and dancing, you know, 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:47.000 and they've lost their life while here, you know. So 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:53.040 you know, and so I tell everyone respect, respect these men. 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:57.280 And not only that, but the prison itself is built 0:16:57.320 --> 0:16:59.560 in the shape of an upside down cross, which they 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:03.119 did on purpose to send a message these men were unworthy. 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:08.600 And in our cemetery, We've got over two thousand graves 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:13.320 here in our cemetery. But they buried them like which 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.880 in today's world maybe it wouldn't be such a huge deal, 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:18.800 but you know, back in the day, it would have 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:23.600 been a really big deal. But these men Christians bury 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:26.200 their dead face in the east and they buried or 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.840 dead to the west, so they even judged them, you know. 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:34.600 So there's a lot of reasons for unrest here. You know. 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:37.080 It's a lot went on. 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:39.199 I mean, and if you think about it too, like 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:41.960 in life, and I think we all make that mistake 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.320 sometimes when we like I've definitely done that where I've 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:46.480 been in a place where I just kind of assumed 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.520 I knew who I was talking to and I've definitely 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.560 said things and like, but then you come to that realization, 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.000 you know, was the saying you get more bees or 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:57.920 flies with honey, whatever it is, you know. But I 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:01.280 also find so many times, just in my investigations that 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:05.040 the way people are handled after death like it when 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:07.119 it comes. I can't tell you how many spirits I 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:11.280 have investigated because because they were upset with the way 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:15.399 they were treated after death, like either they weren't buried 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:17.399 when they wanted to be, or they weren't cremated when 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:20.040 they wanted to be, or their headstone is incorrect, or 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:23.199 they're you know, buried in the wrong place or and like, 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:27.679 so it's surprising how important that is to people, and 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:31.160 then to have that happen in the cemetery, like you're 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:31.600 not worthy. 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:33.080 We're not even going to bury you. 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.760 You know, anyone who was religious, they would they're buried 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:39.520 the wrong direction. They've already probably had so much you know, reflection, 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:42.439 they've been in jail for however long. I can just 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.400 see why that would cause issues. That's fascinating. 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:49.240 Yeah, you know, we tell everyone that comes through, don't 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:53.840 just focus on the prison itself, because this was Native 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:57.520 American land before my family had it, and so we 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:00.560 get a huge amount of that that comes through, so, 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:04.239 you know, and I think a lot. Sometimes there's a 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.439 lot that's coming through, you know that people are getting 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:11.600 with that. So there's just been a lot that's happened 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:12.800 here on this property. 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:14.880 It's very interesting. 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:16.680 When I was digging into the history, I was like, man, 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.879 I can't believe I've never been to this place. But 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:22.679 also it has closed, you know, fairly recently two thousand 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.679 and nine, and the grand scheme of things is pretty recent. 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.679 And I do love that it's kind of surviving in 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:31.200 the functions that it is, just because I think it's 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:35.760 really important these buildings kind of stay around for historic sense, 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.040 whether you believe in ghosts or not. So when you 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:41.040 get in there, it's two thousand and nine or whenever 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.880 you get in there, like, what was the first thing 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:46.879 that happened there that you went, oh my gosh, this 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:47.840 place is haunted. 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:53.120 Oh my goodness, what was the first there. 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:55.639 Was so much or the most memorable. 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.280 Probably the most memorable. 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:04.520 Really, we we get one here we call Bonnie at 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:08.840 the female We didn't house women here, but we have 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.399 found a Bonnie in our family tree. 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.560 So we think that's who it is. She's young, but 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.960 she's one of the most vocal. We capture her a 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:20.920 whole lot here. She you know, you may get her 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:25.960 crying or giggling, and she likes to touch, loves music. 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:29.600 But we kept getting her, and we really there was 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:33.680 no story for her. But as time went on and 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:37.960 we started bumping into old guards that worked here and 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:40.879 things that they got to ask, they were like, have 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:43.520 you caught the woman yet? You know, there's a woman 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:47.840 in the courtyard and so, but we had captured her 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:53.960 a numerous times. But she's playful, young, and so that 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:57.800 was probably the one that stands out the most to me. 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:03.119 But then and probably it would be D Block, we 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:07.240 started getting something really nasty out of D Block, until 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:12.040 to this day we get that. We actually shut d 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:14.960 Block down for about two years. It got really nasty. 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:19.640 People were getting scratched and different things, and then it 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:23.879 became really nasty in our auditorium and so it's still 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:28.800 there to this day. But we're getting some signs. Now 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:31.400 I don't get to go and investigate like I used 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:34.960 to because we've rented out, but we're getting told about 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:37.600 some stuff that we do. I'm going to go in 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:41.080 and try to figure it out one night. But I 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:43.560 think it's gone back and forth between D Block and 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:49.640 the auditorium. It's but it's nasty. It's a really nasty 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:56.560 I don't like to call it demonic, but I if 0:21:56.680 --> 0:22:04.399 I've ever encountered something that, yeah, I don't know, it's nasty. 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:07.159 Well, what I always tell people, and I guess this 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:10.320 would be the place that would fit that this description 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:12.639 the most is you know, people always ask me, you know, 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:16.199 if you ever encountered anything demonic, And I remind people 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:20.720 that there are folks in life who are as bad 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:23.960 as bad can be, and that doesn't go away when 0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:26.679 they die and come back like you the worst of 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:32.119 the worst murders rapistly, you know, and and yeah, and 0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:35.080 so it would make sense that either that could be 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:39.280 one person or it could be just like an amalgamation 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:42.640 of like a bunch of different entities kind of coming together, 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:46.679 you know, with these kind of bad intentions. So but 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:48.800 I do think you're right and that it will move, 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:52.680 because you know, I think that we sometimes people make 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:55.520 this mistake thinking that like, oh, it's just going to stay, 0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:58.159 that's it's in that area, But it's like, no, I 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:00.480 think a lot of these have free oh and they 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:04.720 can go wherever. And if they start kind of feel 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:07.159 like oh people get scared of me or oh, like 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:09.360 they could move throughout that whole building. 0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:11.680 So I'm really interested to see what you find out. 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:14.600 Well, you know, I mean with that when we close 0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:18.840 down D Block and people wasn't going in there, it moved, 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:21.600 you know, and so now it's like people, it can 0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:24.800 be so nasty that people won't even go in there. 0:23:24.800 --> 0:23:27.160 They're like, no, I'm not I'm not even going there, 0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:30.280 you know. And so when it gets quiet, you know, 0:23:30.520 --> 0:23:34.080 then they start they're coming back and like reporting it 0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:37.720 in DE Block again. It's like, you know, it's almost 0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:41.960 like it's on the hunt, you know, it's it's looking 0:23:42.040 --> 0:23:46.520 for somebody, and I don't know, it's what gets me 0:23:46.640 --> 0:23:51.520 is the foul odor and that I don't know, it's 0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:55.680 just I mean, we do have some nasty ones. There's 0:23:55.760 --> 0:24:01.200 several nasty ones here, but not that nasty. That one 0:24:02.000 --> 0:24:02.919 that one gets me. 0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:06.439 Yeah, No, I think I find that really interesting. So 0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:10.919 now that's that leads me to like, so you know, 0:24:10.960 --> 0:24:14.159 you have people coming in and investigating pretty regularly, Like 0:24:14.200 --> 0:24:16.480