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Speaker 1: M h foot Force. If it doesn't work, you're just

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Speaker 1: not using enough. You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations,

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Speaker 1: Military news and straight talk with the guys and the

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Speaker 1: community Software app Radio on Time on Target. Does it

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Speaker 1: feel good for me to say that after Ian did

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Speaker 1: it for so long and now I get to steal

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Speaker 1: his thunder. I'm here with Dennis today, Uh, doing a

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Speaker 1: first podcast sans Ian. Uh. If you want to get

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Speaker 1: ahold of him, you dial one Scott. Oh, that's s

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Speaker 1: C O T T O. And here we are and

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Speaker 1: Dennis has got everything all tied up. I think we're

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Speaker 1: going good. We're gonna have Greg Walker on the show today.

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Speaker 1: Greg is a Special Forces veteran and also one of

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Speaker 1: our writers at News Rep and he has written a

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Speaker 1: number of very interesting and important articles UM arranging from

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Speaker 1: soldiers suicide to Special Forces history. UM. One of the

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Speaker 1: things I'm excited to get into with him today is

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Speaker 1: UM his work on Dave Bayes, who is a seventh

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Speaker 1: Special Forces Group soldier who defected and joined the Sandinistas

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Speaker 1: and led a column into hon Duras where he was

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Speaker 1: eventually captured. And Greg got the real story, got the

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Speaker 1: true story of what happened down there and how how

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Speaker 1: this whole story unfolded, Uh, something that I had tried

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Speaker 1: to get to for quite a while actually, and I

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Speaker 1: just did not have the um, the resources. You know,

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Speaker 1: Greg was actually down there and you know, work down

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Speaker 1: in Panama with three seven Special Forces. He had the

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Speaker 1: access and the know how, UM to really get in

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Speaker 1: depth in this story and write it in a way

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Speaker 1: that nobody has previously. Uh. One of the things that

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Speaker 1: I did want to mention was the story of Dave

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Speaker 1: Bayes has been fictionalized in two novels. This is the

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Speaker 1: story is almost like entered into like Special operations mythology.

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Speaker 1: It's like an urban myth of like things you hear

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Speaker 1: that are half true. Uh. And this part of the

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Speaker 1: parts of the story came out in these novels. UM.

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Speaker 1: One of the novels is called A Mission for Delta,

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Speaker 1: written by L. H. Burris, or he went his UH

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Speaker 1: call sign or the nickname that he was known by

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Speaker 1: in the military was Bucky Um. And Colonel Burris served

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Speaker 1: in Mike Force in Vietnam, and he wrote a terrific

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Speaker 1: memoir about his time in Vietnam called Mike Force. You

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Speaker 1: should look that up and get that book. Because it's

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Speaker 1: just it's important and it's one of my top three

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Speaker 1: Vietnam memoirs. I mean, it's just uh a terrific and

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Speaker 1: even a beautifully written book um about you know, being

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Speaker 1: a Special Forces officer in Vietnam. And the novel that

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Speaker 1: Burris wrote that fictionalizes, uh, fictional and the novel fictionalizes

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Speaker 1: a number of different things and and kind of um

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Speaker 1: aggregates them into into a novel, uh in this fictional plotline.

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Speaker 1: But Dave Bayes is kind of his story is kind

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Speaker 1: of the fulcrum of the novel. It's about this Green

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Speaker 1: beret who went missing in Vietnam and then he turns

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Speaker 1: up with the communists down in Central America. And there's

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Speaker 1: phizzicle material involved and this and that's the fictional aspect

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Speaker 1: of it. Um. But that that book is called a

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Speaker 1: Mission for Delta um and it's a very good book. Um.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of I think hidden history written into

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Speaker 1: that book. And you can go and read my my

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Speaker 1: book review of it on Amazon dot com. Actually I wrote, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't know three thousand words about about

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Speaker 1: this novel, and it's a very it's a very good novel,

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Speaker 1: very positive novel, but I'm afraid to say that I

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Speaker 1: had a bit of a falling out with the author

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Speaker 1: over that. Um. You know, Colonel Burriss, who I have

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Speaker 1: the utmost respect for, UM, for his service and for

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Speaker 1: who he is as a man. He was one of

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Speaker 1: the UM you know, original members of Delta Force. Charlie

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Speaker 1: Beckwith brought him in and he was one of the

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Speaker 1: first squadron commanders and eventually became the deputy commander of

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Speaker 1: the unit. Mean, he did uh an amazing service to

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Speaker 1: our country. But we had a bit of a falling

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Speaker 1: out because Colonel Burris says that his novel, A Mission

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Speaker 1: for Delta is purely a work of fiction and nothing

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Speaker 1: else UM, and I have to respectfully disagree with him

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Speaker 1: on this. I think that the novel actually has a

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Speaker 1: whole slew of things in there that are based on

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Speaker 1: factual events. UM. The Dave Bayes incident happens to be

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Speaker 1: one of them. There are other parts of the novel

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Speaker 1: that reference Detachment A in Berlin, undercover Special Forces UM

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Speaker 1: operations in Berlin. There are references to green Light missions.

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Speaker 1: There are there are characters in the book that are

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Speaker 1: quite clearly actual people. Uh So, I mean there's a

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Speaker 1: character named Aims Major Aims in the book, which is

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Speaker 1: clearly Colonel Burris. There is a character working for the

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Speaker 1: National Security Council in the White House named Rolie, who

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Speaker 1: is obviously Oliver North Ali. Um. So I'm afraid I

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Speaker 1: have to respectfully disagree with Colonel Burris on you know,

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Speaker 1: his his claim that the book is purely fictional um.

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Speaker 1: And you know, he had got quite angry at me

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Speaker 1: for writing that book review and decoding some of the

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Speaker 1: things in it. Be that as it may. The other

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Speaker 1: novel that fictionalizes Dave by Eves is a book called Stiletto,

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Speaker 1: which was written by Greg Walker, and it's about exactly

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Speaker 1: the same thing we're talking about here, that there's a

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Speaker 1: Green Beret who defected and he went to the other

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Speaker 1: side and now he's working for the communists. So we

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Speaker 1: will have Greg on to talk about that and a

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Speaker 1: few other um works that he's done that he's written

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Speaker 1: over the last couple of months. And I'm excited to

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Speaker 1: get into that with Dennis. What else do you got

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Speaker 1: for us, well, Greg, First off, Greg was passionate via

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Speaker 1: email to come on, so he's gonna be excited. I

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Speaker 1: feel like you two with your history knowledge, and especially

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Speaker 1: when you talk about by ease like this, I feel

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Speaker 1: like you two were just gonna hit it off and

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Speaker 1: it's gonna that's gonna run rampant um. In addition, you

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Speaker 1: tweeted out an article this weekend from The Independent written

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Speaker 1: by Robert fisk Uh it was. The article was titled

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Speaker 1: the evidence we were Never meant to see about the

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Speaker 1: was it Duma Douma gas Attack? And I read the

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Speaker 1: piece very interesting stuff. I wanted to hear your thoughts on.

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Speaker 1: Obviously you tweeted about it, so I'm sure you have

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Speaker 1: some opinion. Yeah. Well, it's about one of what was

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Speaker 1: allegedly one of the big gas attacks in Syria. UM

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Speaker 1: that became the basis for um, you know, Trump's cruise

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Speaker 1: missile strikes and Syria. And there is a slew of evidence.

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Speaker 1: I have to be very careful um and and I

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Speaker 1: don't want to parse my words, but it does appear

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Speaker 1: that there was a gas attack, but how how it

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Speaker 1: was conducted and who who perpetrated that gas attack is

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Speaker 1: not necessarily known. And we were told, um by you know,

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Speaker 1: U N bodies that there is like unequivocally the regime

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Speaker 1: UM launching these gas attacks. And it does seem pretty

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Speaker 1: clear throughout the war that the regime and the rebels

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Speaker 1: and ISIS and all of them have used chemical weapons

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Speaker 1: at various points, chlorine gas and saren gas and things

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Speaker 1: like this. UM, but this attack was pinned directly on

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Speaker 1: the regime. And now there's evidence has come out that

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Speaker 1: the u N had um dissenting opinions about it, that

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Speaker 1: they were not all the the inspectors were not all

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Speaker 1: on the same sheet of music. And there were some

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Speaker 1: people who felt that these uh, these chemical weapons were

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Speaker 1: not dropped from the sky by airplanes, but rather that

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Speaker 1: they were placed on the ground. Uh. This all, this

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Speaker 1: all gets very scary, and it's chilling because we launched

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Speaker 1: our invasion of Iraq in two thousand and three based

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Speaker 1: on the false premise that there were that dom was

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Speaker 1: making all these chemical weapons, and then that turned out

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Speaker 1: to be bullshit. So and now we're now we're right

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Speaker 1: back there where we're being told that the Iranians are

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Speaker 1: making nuclear weapons. Then you know, the the ubiquitous uh

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Speaker 1: W M D threat and that we need to go

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Speaker 1: something's got to be done about Iran. We keep hearing

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Speaker 1: this over and over, So yeah, I mean we just

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Speaker 1: have to be super cautious about this. The article was wild,

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Speaker 1: and like you said, the fact that we're I don't

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Speaker 1: want to say we're using this, but it's it goes

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Speaker 1: back to the w m d S. It's like it's

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Speaker 1: almost an excuse for Trump to like, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: like you say waving the flag, you get patriots and

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Speaker 1: behind it, make sure like, hey, look, guys, these guys

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Speaker 1: are builting w m d S. What are we gonna

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Speaker 1: do about it? Uh, it's a very fascinating read. I'll

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Speaker 1: be sure to link it in them in the description

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Speaker 1: of the show. Finally, I wanted to bring up we

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Speaker 1: record on Tuesdays, so and this show gets posted on

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Speaker 1: a Wednesday. Obviously, Yesterday for us currently was Memorial Day.

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Speaker 1: And obviously I know that you're decorated and you've been

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Speaker 1: in the military. I'm a civilian, so Memorial Day for

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Speaker 1: me is is a three day weekend. Um. Obviously I

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Speaker 1: have appreciation for those, and I'm sure you've lost plenty

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Speaker 1: of brothers throughout the course of your your time spent.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to take your thoughts on what Memorial

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Speaker 1: Day like, how does somebody who is as decorated as

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Speaker 1: you are, like, how do you kind of wrap your

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Speaker 1: head around that? What do you what do you do? Well?

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Speaker 1: I wrote an article about it last year and that

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Speaker 1: we are republished, and you know, I have mixed feelings

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Speaker 1: about it. I'm looking at it, you know, as a veteran,

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Speaker 1: I see a lot of my peers like trying to

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Speaker 1: shame America. Like, you know, it's not just about barbecues.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're supposed to be remembering the fall in

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Speaker 1: And they make it sound like you're supposed to spend

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Speaker 1: Memorial Day by yourself in a bar at Applebee's like

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Speaker 1: crying into your bud light And it's like, no, man,

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Speaker 1: Like that's not healthy. Um. And you know, for sure

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Speaker 1: it's a time you can reflect on, you know, those

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Speaker 1: who gave their all vives for this country, um, those

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Speaker 1: who sacrificed in the war, um, any of our our

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Speaker 1: wars throughout history. UM. But I disagree with the notion

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Speaker 1: that you're supposed to like sit around and feel bad, um,

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Speaker 1: that you're supposed to be just sober sober and uh

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Speaker 1: sober uh and um and just feel bad about it.

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Speaker 1: I think that you should go and spend Memorial Day

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Speaker 1: having a barbecue with your family, Like, there's no reason

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Speaker 1: why you should not do that. Uh, you know, any

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Speaker 1: of our friends. I when I think about the people

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Speaker 1: I know who died in combat or or some succumb

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Speaker 1: to suicide, unfortunately, not a single one of them would

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Speaker 1: be like, yeah, Jack, you need to go and like

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Speaker 1: sit in the Applebee's bar and cry to yourself. Remembering me,

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Speaker 1: not a single one of them would would say that,

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Speaker 1: And any one of them would probably give anything to

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Speaker 1: spend another day with their wife and kids, any of them,

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Speaker 1: so they believe me, they would want you to go

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Speaker 1: and have a barbecue with your family and like spend

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Speaker 1: some quality time with your kids or your your your

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Speaker 1: mom and dad, aunts and uncles. Uh, you know whoever

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Speaker 1: it is you know, or if it's just with friends,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, sure have a toast to your friends who

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Speaker 1: died in the war, remember some of those guys who

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Speaker 1: came before us. But I don't think it's right to

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Speaker 1: um just sit around being depressed. Uh. And I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's okay to try to like shame America over

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Speaker 1: it either, you know, and there are those guys. I mean,

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Speaker 1: be it far from me to tell a veteran how

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Speaker 1: to react to Memorial Day weekend, but I I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: in your camping and again my opinion doesn't matter. I

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Speaker 1: understand that. But it's like you you said it in

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Speaker 1: your answer, you want to remember those but at the

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Speaker 1: same time, if they were here, I feel like most

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Speaker 1: people would have the same answer, like, look, guys, like,

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Speaker 1: of course we we missed the people we lost, but

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Speaker 1: what is that what they would want? Like for me,

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Speaker 1: Memorial Day is a weird weekend for me because I

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Speaker 1: lost my father May seven years ago and it always

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Speaker 1: falls around the more and my father wasn't a veteran

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. But Memorial Day, for you guys

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Speaker 1: or veterans, I remember my father that week. So so

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Speaker 1: it's in the same ballpark in the sense that like

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Speaker 1: it reminds me of my dad. But I'm not gonna,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm not gonna sit there and so call

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Speaker 1: you know, I'll go to the grave site, I'll I'll

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Speaker 1: pay my respects. I missy Dad. But then it's time

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Speaker 1: to barbecue and like have fun and tell stories like

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you have countless stories of experiences you have

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Speaker 1: with these guys and when you want to sit around,

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Speaker 1: if they were there, when you want to drink a

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Speaker 1: beer with them and like laugh about something something weird

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Speaker 1: that happened some One of the one of the people

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Speaker 1: I think about specifically was my old platoon sergeant Jared

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Speaker 1: van Alis, who he was my platoon sergeant for a

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Speaker 1: while for about two years, um, and I kind of

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Speaker 1: lost track of him after I left Range of Battalion

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Speaker 1: and went to Special Forces, but Jared went on he

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Speaker 1: uh he served as a Delta Force operator and he

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Speaker 1: was killed in Afghanistan and um two thousand ten, as

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Speaker 1: I recall, and um, you know, Jared was a family man,

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Speaker 1: uh there and there There's just no way that he

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Speaker 1: would be like, yeah, Jack, you need to go and

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Speaker 1: like feel bad for me, Like there's no way that

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Speaker 1: would even like like if he thought I was just

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Speaker 1: like sitting around feeling sorry for myself or feeling sorry

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Speaker 1: for him, like he would slap me in the mouth.

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Speaker 1: Like there's no question in my mind about that. So

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Speaker 1: all this stuff about like social social shaming and like

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Speaker 1: feeling bad and being depressed, like are you doing that

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Speaker 1: for the fallen or are you doing that for you?

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Speaker 1: You know exactly. That's that's kind of where I come

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Speaker 1: from on it. So I mean, yeah, poor one for

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Speaker 1: your homies, you know. Remember No, I mean, I'm totally serious.

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Speaker 1: I mean, remember those guys, you know, and what they

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Speaker 1: meant to us, and honor their sacrifice. But dude, go

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Speaker 1: go live your life. Man, That's what they'd want for you.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's how most people should think about it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you want to remember, but at the same time,

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Speaker 1: you you can't continue to stop your life. No, nor

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Speaker 1: should you, nor should do There's no reason for that.

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Speaker 1: Well said, all right, with that, we have Greg Walker

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Speaker 1: coming up now. I know most of the listeners were

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Speaker 1: familiar with Ian's silky smooth vocal cords, which that was

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Speaker 1: the first thing I had said when I met him

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Speaker 1: in person and over the phone. I said, Ian, you

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Speaker 1: have got the gift man, you were meant for radio.

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Speaker 1: It's got the voice for radio. He really, I got

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Speaker 1: the face for radio. You and I polled. Now he said,

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Speaker 1: he was like, look, you work it out with Jack

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Speaker 1: if you want to do the reads or he wants

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Speaker 1: to do the reads. You had said, Hey, man, you

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Speaker 1: can handle them. So I'm gonna I'm taking over for

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Speaker 1: Ian with the reads if you don't like them, tweeted Ian.

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Speaker 1: Ian we miss you like Dennis is horrible. Fine, I

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Speaker 1: I that's a cross. I I'm glad to bear. But

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Speaker 1: in that let me let me provide my first one M.

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Speaker 1: This show is brought to you by Crate Club, a

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Speaker 1: will bring to you Greg Walker, author veteran. He's done

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Speaker 1: a countless amount of stuff, and we will talk about

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Speaker 1: David Bayes, his articles. He's wrote some stuff on News Rep.

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Speaker 1: Jack and Greg will get into this and it'll be

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Speaker 1: a great conversation. So with that, here's Greg Walker. Hey, Greg,

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Speaker 1: thanks again for coming on. Appreciate the invitation. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um,

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Speaker 1: So we we were talking discussing a little bit about

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Speaker 1: your work. Um, and you know, I got into talking

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Speaker 1: a little bit about Dave Buyse and uh, you know

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Speaker 1: your novel Stiletto that fictionalized the store r and uh

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Speaker 1: and also Colonel Burrus novel that also fictionalizes it a bit.

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Speaker 1: And I know we you've written a number of articles

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Speaker 1: that we'd like to get into with you. UM, but

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you first if you could tell

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Speaker 1: us a little bit about yourself and your military career

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Speaker 1: and you know, your journalistic background, because you've also written

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Speaker 1: quite a bit of you know, special Forces history and

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Speaker 1: published a few books and so on. Sure, I h

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Speaker 1: s entered the military in ninety uh and let serve

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Speaker 1: both the new active duty side of the house with

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Speaker 1: the Army for ten years and then completed my career

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Speaker 1: with the Special Operations Reserve Components, retiring in two thousand

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Speaker 1: five after a couple of visits over to Iraq. UH.

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Speaker 1: Writing wise, I always had a love for writing and

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Speaker 1: for journalism that was cultivated when I was in junior

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Speaker 1: high and high school. And I actually began being published

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Speaker 1: when I was in service at the Town Special Forces

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Speaker 1: Group UH for Gung Home magazine. UH. My my team

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Speaker 1: sergeant came in and dropped a copy the first issue

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Speaker 1: on the team table and said, hey, Walker, Uh, you right,

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Speaker 1: we weren't right for these guys, So it's not a

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Speaker 1: bad magazine. And so that's that's how I got started.

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Speaker 1: And I was encouraged along the way by some of

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Speaker 1: the same people Jack has been encouraged by to include

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Speaker 1: Jim Morris. And didn't Gary Winderer edit Gung Ho at

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Speaker 1: one point? No, Uh, that was always edited by Jim

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Speaker 1: Schultz began at Gary started Behind the Lines, and UH

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Speaker 1: was founder and editor of that journal. I wrote from

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Speaker 1: behind the Lines for some time and was for a

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Speaker 1: period of time It's editor. And you did some work

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Speaker 1: with Bob Brown It's Soldier of Fortune, didn't you. I've

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Speaker 1: I've done a lot of work with Bob on a

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Speaker 1: multitude of the titles that he had UM and Uh.

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Speaker 1: I still enjoy a very cordial and respectful relationship with him.

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Speaker 1: I haven't talked to Bob in a few years, but

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Speaker 1: I mean he's just a super fun guy to you know.

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Speaker 1: We were able to sit down and have a beer

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Speaker 1: here in Manhattan one time, and he's just a super

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Speaker 1: interesting guy to talk to. Yeah, Bob is uh Bob.

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Speaker 1: This is one of those guys that has been on

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Speaker 1: all sides of the the Twilight, if you will, and UH,

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Speaker 1: to be honest with you, my favorite uh I major

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Speaker 1: of Bob was when our dear friend Almer passed away

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Speaker 1: back in the mid nineties. UH we had quite the

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Speaker 1: memorial out here in Oregon, and Bob flew up for that,

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Speaker 1: and the evening before uh the ceremony, UH we were

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Speaker 1: talking and my wife was with me and our four kids,

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Speaker 1: and we went over to uh Al's favorite restaurant, Blood Ruckers,

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Speaker 1: and like Oswego, and I had a nice dinner. Bob

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Speaker 1: purchased and then he asked my kids if they wanted

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Speaker 1: ice cream, and they said yes, of course, and he

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Speaker 1: took him up to the ice cream counter and I

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00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,879
Speaker 1: sat there watching the you know, the editor of Soldier

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Speaker 1: or Fortune magazine with all that either means or doesn't mean,

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Speaker 1: happily taking orders from four little kids and buying them

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Speaker 1: ice cream cones. That's great, Yeah, Bob. I got the

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Speaker 1: same impression from Bob. He uh has cultivated this image

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Speaker 1: of himself of this really hardcore right wing Special Forces veteran,

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Speaker 1: which in in a sense he is um but he's

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Speaker 1: also a very intelligent articulate person. Um. You know, he's

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Speaker 1: a college graduate, he's an educated man. Oh yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: one of Bob's greatest statuebutius the ability to be a

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Speaker 1: chameleon and present to whichever audience the face that he

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Speaker 1: wants them to see, or that he feels when he

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Speaker 1: deserved to see him. And uh, if people want to

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Speaker 1: know more about that, you know. Uh. Bob Brown also

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Speaker 1: has a memoir out. I believe it's called I Am

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Speaker 1: Soldier of Fortune. UM since the founder and longtime editor

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Speaker 1: of Soldier of Fortune magazine, So I've read his book.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's uh, it's pretty amazing that the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the book talks about when he was a very

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Speaker 1: very young Bob Brown UM going and spending his time

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Speaker 1: UM with Cuban rebels, UM, but prior to the um

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Speaker 1: the revolution in Cuba, Castro's Revolution, and Bob writes about

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Speaker 1: how he felt betrayed because he thought that they were

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Speaker 1: just social democrats. But you know, of course after everything

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Speaker 1: went down, UM, they were clearly communists. And I think

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Speaker 1: Bob felt personally betrayed by that. And I think it

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Speaker 1: also explains why Bob became so hardcore anti communist in

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Speaker 1: his later years. Yep, but that would be a very

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Speaker 1: accurate account of his uh, his rendition in that So, Greg,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to get into the story about Bayes with

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Speaker 1: you because we had talked a little bit about Dave

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Speaker 1: Bayes earlier on UM and I had tried to figure

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Speaker 1: that out and piece that story together myself in the past,

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Speaker 1: but you were really the one that was able to

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Speaker 1: deliver on that. And I was wondering if you could

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Speaker 1: tell us about who he was and what happened to

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Speaker 1: him down in Central America all those years ago. Dave

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Speaker 1: Bayez Uh was a natural born Nicaraguan. His dad was

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Speaker 1: involved at the time in the National Guard with both's

387
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: going on under the president on a Sacio Samosa's father

388
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Speaker 1: his dad and with long story short, UH, they he

389
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Speaker 1: was part of a coup attempt and assassination attempt on

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Speaker 1: the old man and Uh the plot was betrayed and

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Speaker 1: the conspirators were all brutally tortured and executed and their

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Speaker 1: bodies burned and buried in the amassed grave. Essentially, David

393
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Speaker 1: was just a little guy. UH. He grew up with

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Speaker 1: that image and the stories of what had happened to

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Speaker 1: his dad, and UH later on. His parents sent him

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Speaker 1: to the United States so essentially wouldn't get him self

397
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Speaker 1: in trouble with anti Somosa demonstrations that were taking place

398
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Speaker 1: again Stannastatio Samosa. And Uh he ended up going into

399
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Speaker 1: the army. He became an actually naturalized American citizen. Uh.

400
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Speaker 1: He went to Special Forces and was an exceptional Special

401
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Speaker 1: Forces Communication sergeant. UH and his up down assigned to

402
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Speaker 1: the same unit. I was later assigned to the third

403
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Speaker 1: of the seventh, which was then in Panama. And Uh,

404
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Speaker 1: as you have read in the story, he made a

405
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Speaker 1: decision to return to Nicaragua after the Sandinista top Lane

406
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Speaker 1: of the Samosa regime and joined the Sandinistas. He was

407
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 1: not a Communist and he wasn't a Marxist. Uh. He

408
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: he saw himself as returning to the homeland to pick

409
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: up where his dad had left off. And that's how

410
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 1: he got back to Nicaragua. And I got there right

411
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Speaker 1: after David had had left and began hearing the stories

412
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 1: then from some of your teammates. I mean, what did

413
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: they have to say about Dave, Like what type of

414
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: soldier was here? I have not talked with anyone or

415
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: heard from anyone that didn't have the tremendous amount of

416
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: respect for him as a Special Forces soldier and as

417
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: a soldier, he was very personable, he was very professional. Uh.

418
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Speaker 1: He had a big heart, like most s IF guys do. Uh.

419
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Speaker 1: He pulled his weight and his teammates in particular because

420
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Speaker 1: they were his teammates. And he talked quite a bit

421
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: about his background and his happiness, his hatred for this

422
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: amosas that kind of thing. They really saw that side

423
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: of him. So when he went back to Nicaragua and

424
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 1: linked up with the Sandinistas, Uh, he had shared with

425
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Speaker 1: him that that's what he was going to do, and

426
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: at the time they it was like, Wow, I hope

427
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: you know what you're doing, but good luck man. Yeah.

428
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Speaker 1: And I thought one of the interesting things that came

429
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 1: out in your your work on this was also that, Um,

430
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: Dave was highly qualified. I mean he was not just

431
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 1: a Special Forces soldier, but he spoke three languages at least,

432
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 1: he had learned all the clandestine trade craft and so on.

433
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: Um while he was stationed in Germany. Um, it just

434
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: seems like this guy could be incredibly dangerous. Yeah, that

435
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 1: that comes out in a story because the s two

436
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: at the battalion several of the guys. Matter of fact,

437
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,199
Speaker 1: one of whom I quote in the story several times,

438
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: who was very close today, was also one of the

439
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: most professional intelligence sergeants that I've ever met and or

440
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: worked with. And he went to the Battalion S two

441
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: and said, Hey, this is getting ready to go back

442
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 1: over here, and you know, this could be really scary

443
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: for us, and the Battalian S two just simply did

444
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: not pick up on it. And much more importantly, perhaps

445
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: the intelligent people at Corey Heights down in panem Off

446
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:03,199
Speaker 1: with the Sonuthern command Uh, they didn't pick up on

447
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,400
Speaker 1: it either. And they had given him access to literally

448
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 1: anything in everything that he wanted to become involved in.

449
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 1: When he was t d y with them, he did

450
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 1: take all of that tradecraft, in that knowledge and information

451
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: over to the Sandinistas, which is from the regions he

452
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: became a commandanti. I remember you mentioning that he had

453
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: access to all of these files at Southcom, so he

454
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: would have had like just an incredibly in depth knowledge

455
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: of American operations in Central America at the time. So

456
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: the United States military doesn't pick up on what this

457
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 1: guy is up to or or all some people did,

458
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: but it gets ignored and then he winds up with

459
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: the Sandinistas and can you pick up the story from there? Uh?

460
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: He UH had gone back to Nicaragua, to Managua on

461
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: a leave of all things, and approached the senior leadership

462
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: there with the new South and East government, of which

463
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: he was related to. UH and UH said, that's who

464
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: I am, that's where I come from, that's what I

465
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: want to do. And they were Uh. They were cautious,

466
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: of course, but his familial history and relations with some

467
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: of the commodantes, at least three of them of the

468
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: nine most important, was such that they gave him the

469
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: opportunity and gave him the end. So he came on board.

470
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: He was commissioned as a lieutenant UH and he UH

471
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: was under wraps and being watched when he was assigned

472
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: to be in UH conduct training. He was training. He

473
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: trained the first Santon East paratroop unit and also trained

474
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: up their counterinsurgency units which were being thrown into the

475
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: fight against the contrast. UH. So he made his bones

476
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: there and UH when they became comfortable with him, they

477
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: got from one of the captain he requested to go

478
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: into the fight against the contrast UH and fought UH

479
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: in one of the most difficult and challenging departments in

480
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: Nicaragua that was attempting to be more or less occupied

481
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: by contra forces and made a pretty good name for

482
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: himself and would to agree with it. When the Honduran

483
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: incursion came about, he was asked to act as the

484
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: bodyguard for the Honduran Grola commander when they went back

485
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: across the border. And just for some of our other

486
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: listeners who maybe aren't familiar with the lay of the

487
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: land at the time, it's worth pointing out I think

488
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: that Dave was taking communists rebels across the border in

489
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: the Honduras into combat with Honduran contras that his former

490
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: teammates or even he himself a trained Oh yeah, he

491
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: was totally committed to the cause UM and the thought

492
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: process and the bigger pictures that the cultras were meant

493
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,719
Speaker 1: to and created to destabilize the send An Eista government,

494
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: part of the all out war that the regular administration

495
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: was bringing to bear on Central America. Uh So the

496
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: Santinisas when you look at it from an objective point

497
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: of view, uh, they were trying to get their revolution

498
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: and their quote new society on the ground and and

499
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: built up, and infrastructures changed and all that kind of

500
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,959
Speaker 1: good stuff, and all of a sudden, they've got an

501
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: armed force coming in from not only on Duras, but

502
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: from Costa Rica and uh, in some instances across the

503
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: gulp of Fonseca from El Salvador. So that being said

504
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: and biased his mind, you know, he bought into a

505
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: this is my country, this is my homeland, and uh,

506
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: you know, I'm here and I'm going to fight for it.

507
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: And then we get into that fateful column that that

508
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: they've led across the border. Um, and my impression of

509
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: it was it was almost like, um, he's trying to

510
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: become like a mini ke Gavera um leading an armed

511
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: communist column. But I was wondering if you could tell

512
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: us a little bit about that and um, and about

513
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: father Carney, because you also write wrote a whole article

514
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: about him, and I think his story is equally fascinating.

515
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: One thing that Dave was, and this just comes from

516
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: his teammates, he was very much enthralled with Shavara and

517
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: that's not really unusual. Uh. Chekovara is a symbol of

518
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: radical change and revolution throughout Central America, Latin America, and

519
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: everybody has their own interpretation of why his image is

520
00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: somehow important to them. Uh so Uh and uh, Dave's

521
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: younger brother, who gave a series of interviews in the

522
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: early nineties on his brother to La Prenza in Nicaragua,

523
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: said the same thing. My my brother thought, Uh, you know,

524
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: he thought he was going to have the same opportunity

525
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: that she did, you know, to lead a revolution. So

526
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: that was essentially part of the motivator on that. Uh.

527
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: The the other was it was an extreme test on

528
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: the Santista leadership. Uh. You know, they still got an

529
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: American Green beret uh in their ranks at a high level.

530
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: And is he a double agent? Is he a triple agent? Uh?

531
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: So to say, hey, look, do you want to, you know,

532
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: be the bodyguard for the Honduran rebel commander going back

533
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: over wage war? Uh was a test. If he said no,

534
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: not really, then you know, that's kind of a chalk

535
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: against him. But he accepted it. And uh one of

536
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: us the border with the with the column and what

537
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: about father Carney because he was sort of like the

538
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: religious or spiritual advisor to the column, wasn't he Carney

539
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: was And this is what's interesting about this whole story

540
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: on the Column and about Bias and Carney, is that

541
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: it has been so badly misrepresented, hopeword lies and self

542
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: serving agendas built on it on all sides. Carney was

543
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: a really interesting guy. He was a World War Two

544
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: combat veteran the European Theater, became a priest, and became

545
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: a Jesuit. He spent eighteen years in Honduras working with

546
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: the poor UH and lived as them. UH. He was

547
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: very disdainful of UH priests who had nice houses or

548
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: comfortable homes when the people they were supposed to be

549
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: carrying forward living in object poverty. UH. He was very outspoken,

550
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: He was highly intelligent H and he got himself into

551
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: some pretty serious trouble down in Honduras, to the point

552
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: where they actually exiled him and sent him back to

553
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: the United States. He had taken a hunter and citizenship,

554
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: which they stripped him out. UH. He was back in

555
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: the States for a couple of weeks and went through

556
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: a two week kind of a reformation of thought at

557
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: the Jesuit University in Detroit, and then was sent back

558
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: to Central America by them, but this time down to Nicaragua,

559
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: and he spent a couple of years in Nicaragua, were

560
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: working with the poor and becoming even more radicalized. His

561
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: joining the column was something he wrote about in his autobiography,

562
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: which is a fascinating book. Uh. And he basically said,

563
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: uh eight, I'm going to become a an armed priest.

564
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna walk my talk and this this group's going

565
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: back in the Honduras, which I can say here my

566
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: you know, my birth home. And he was actually armed

567
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: and uh was as much a fighter as he was

568
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: a priest. I thought it was fascinating that article you

569
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: wrote about Father Carney, and and as you say, it

570
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: was like he was living out his religious beliefs. He

571
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: he didn't he make a comment like, if you're a

572
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: real Christian, you have to be a Marxist revolutionary, like

573
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 1: these things go hand in hand with one another. Well,

574
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: and actually his quote was if if you claimed to

575
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: be a Christian, you have to be a revolutionary. Right.

576
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: I didn't uh pre qualify it with Mark Sister or

577
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: anything else, but uh, he was and had because he

578
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: came from the Liberation of Theology, uh school of thought.

579
00:35:53,480 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: He was very much invested in Marxism and his repretation

580
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: of it, uh, and in that he only joined a

581
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: previous cadre in a current cadre of Jesuit priests who

582
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: made liberation theology their doctrine. So then what happened when

583
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: the column did cross the border. I mean, I remember

584
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: reading your article and your research on this, and I

585
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: mean it sounded like it was ill planned. And because

586
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: of that ill fated, it was not necessarily ill planned,

587
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: because they had cells in Honduras that we're ready to

588
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: receive them. They were going to set up through four

589
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 1: operational fronts of the In my opinion, with the research

590
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,839
Speaker 1: that was done, the guerrilla commander Dr Yasmina, who was

591
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: a hardcore communist Marxist and had participated in uh uh

592
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 1: several different insurgencies to include the insurgency over in Alsamad,

593
00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: were prior to UH creating a column. He he his

594
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: ego just got way out in front of him, uh,

595
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 1: and he made some real blunders, has to movement distances

596
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: terrain where he was going to base out of the

597
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: hossant Anista command and said, hey, we we really think

598
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: you should, you know, create your first base on our

599
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 1: side of the border, and uh, you know, launch out

600
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 1: from there and just kind of start taking little baby

601
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: steps and getting established. Uh. And he determined that no,

602
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 1: we're going to go right in and we're going to

603
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: create create our revolution, much in the doctrine of Shay's

604
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 1: foco theory as we go, and that that just totally unraveled.

605
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 1: And it was I mean, this is incredibly difficult terrain

606
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 1: as well. Oh, it's the worst. It's the absolute worst.

607
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: Talking to some American retired Special Forces advisors that have

608
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 1: been down in that area, Uh, it's just the worst.

609
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: And it took a huge toll on the Uh, the

610
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: initial column, they started to see extreme fatigue, they ran

611
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: out of food, the desertions began. And once the desertions began, Uh,

612
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 1: the Hunderns began to learn. The military and the police

613
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 1: started to learn of the presence of the column. And

614
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 1: then it was a matter of just the clock to

615
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: came down. And then how did it all come to

616
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,479
Speaker 1: a close for Father Carney and Dave and and Dr

617
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: ray Is. They they got into essentially a series of

618
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: running gun battles. The information that was being provided by

619
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: the deserters was very concise, very explicit. Uh, there was

620
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: no base for the revolution among the general populists. Whenever

621
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: the general populists heard something or saw saw the guerrillas

622
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 1: come into some of the very small little villages that

623
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: they were trying to travel around to get food, water, news,

624
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 1: that kind of a thing, they reported it almost right away.

625
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: So the Honduran military immediately launched a very aggressive counterinsurgency campaign.

626
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,320
Speaker 1: The United States UH, as we share in the story,

627
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 1: got behind it a hundred percent, and UH we UH

628
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:26,479
Speaker 1: under the guise of our humanitarian assistants, Presidents UH sent

629
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 1: the second of something, the Range of Italian down there

630
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: to assist the hondur and special Forces UH to corral

631
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: up the column. And they literally which is the first

632
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 1: time I've ever heard of the Range of Italian used

633
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 1: a humanitarian rule, by the way, pretty pretty interesting and

634
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 1: pretty much broke them down and chased them the ground

635
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: and Rayo's UH Dave Bios and Father Carney were captured.

636
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: They were taken to a American built and supplied UH

637
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: quandestine airship where the contrast were basically out of UH

638
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: interrogated and they, along with I think it was some

639
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: thirty other guerrillas that have been captured. UH, We're we're

640
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 1: all executed. Do you think the United States government, uh,

641
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: down there knew that they had American citizens captive. Probably

642
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: absolutely bring that out in the story. It was. It

643
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: was very much, very much known. And the interesting thing

644
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 1: about it was, and there's something people really don't understand

645
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 1: because it's gone on for time immemorial. Carney had renounced

646
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: his United States citizenship, but it had not never actually

647
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: been taken from him. When he went back down to Nicaragua,

648
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: he went back down on a Catholic church pass which

649
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: allowed him because he was doing clerical work, to get

650
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: another US passport. So Carney was really very much looked

651
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: at by state department as I'm really a citizen anymore,

652
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: and here you are involved in doing what you're doing. Uh.

653
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: So he was on his zone and byas had not

654
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 1: redoundsted citizenship, but buy has had gone over to the

655
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: other side doing the damage that he had been doing.

656
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: So again, uh, he was on his own. And so

657
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: the determination that for the Honduran say, this is your

658
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 1: internal problem. You know, you take care of it the

659
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,439
Speaker 1: way you want to take care of it, and they did.

660
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: So you think our government was kind of like turning

661
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: a blind eye to it, like, uh, yeah, we don't

662
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,479
Speaker 1: really want to know how this is going to play out.

663
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: I don't think it was a blind eye at all.

664
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 1: I think it was a very wide open both eyes. Uh.

665
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 1: This was all out war throughout El Salvador and Honduras

666
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: and Nicaragua threatening Costa Rica. That's what folks really don't

667
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: grasp about our wars in Central America. So both eyes open,

668
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: and they knew that they knew these guys were a problem,

669
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: they knew the damage that they were doing. And I

670
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: think that a nice backdrop to it is the State

671
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: Department sent the same message directly to Michael Channis and

672
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: his very small American team that was supporting on a

673
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: Sasio Somosa in seventy seven seventy eight. Uh. In seventy eight,

674
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,720
Speaker 1: of course, Mike and Chuck and Bobby were killed along

675
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: with Ivan Oligret uh down there. Uh. They told him, Hey,

676
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: you guys are way outside the boundaries. We can't make

677
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 1: you come home, we can't make you stop, but we

678
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 1: can tell you right now we're not going to help

679
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 1: you if bad things happen to you. And that's in

680
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: State Department cables that I have. It was just a

681
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 1: continuation of a long held policy We're going to have

682
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: to have you back on another time to talk about

683
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 1: Michaelis because I know we had talked about before how

684
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,280
Speaker 1: you're working on a biography about him, right, Yes, six

685
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 1: years in uh in research and unbelievable storage. I'm looking

686
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: forward to hearing that. That's that's gonna be a whole

687
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: other podcast. Then, as I recall from from reading your work,

688
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,320
Speaker 1: the remains of father Carney and Dave Bayes were loaded

689
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: onto a helicopter and thrown out over the jungle and

690
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 1: have to this day they haven't been recovered. Right. No,

691
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: it was a very deliberate message sent to the Santaetas

692
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: by the Honduran government. They loaded all of the bodies

693
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 1: of those that were executed at El Aguacate Air Base

694
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,919
Speaker 1: onto helicopters. They flew him back over the border into Nicaragua,

695
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: and they tossed him out into the Triple Canopy jungle below.

696
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 1: And the message that was sent because of course they

697
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: know through the back channels, let them know, hey, we

698
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 1: we just sent your boys back. Uh was you come

699
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: across our border like this again? And you know this

700
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: is what awaits you. The Hondurans were purely good at

701
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: protecting their country. There was never an insurgency that got

702
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: off the ground in Honduras because of their approach. I

703
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: remember I've talked to Jim West about it many times,

704
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: you know, when he was down there training their counter

705
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: terrorism unit at one point. But maybe I we'll have

706
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,919
Speaker 1: to have him on the show again sometime to talk

707
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: about his experiences down there in Honduras. But they're all

708
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 1: very interesting to sell. Say the least is incredible. When

709
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,439
Speaker 1: we first got talking Greg, I I asked Jim because

710
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,359
Speaker 1: I always you know, asked Jim. I was like, hey,

711
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: do you know this guy? Do you know that guy?

712
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 1: And he was like, oh yeah, Greg Walker, and he

713
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: vouched for you. Said yeah, Greg's a really good guy,

714
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: very analytical person. He's one of my favorites. He's a

715
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: real legend of Special Forces going on really positive and

716
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: incredible things. So give him my best, Yeah I will.

717
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: He's actually having um some shoulder surgery. He actually fell

718
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: down on a work site and broke his shoulders. So

719
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,479
Speaker 1: they're they're putting they're putting him back toge there again.

720
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 1: But he'll be okay, there you go again, is the

721
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 1: right word? Yeah? Yeah, for sure. Um So well, I

722
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 1: really appreciate you walking us through that story and cutting

723
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 1: through some of the bs that has been floated out

724
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,839
Speaker 1: there over the years about this whole, this whole saga

725
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 1: about Dave Bayes. But I wanted to give you the

726
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 1: opportunity to talk about some of your other work also,

727
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: because you've written quite a bit about soldier suicide and

728
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: some other things that are going on with our force

729
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: right now and just pointing out like, hey, we we

730
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: got some problems. Yeah, I'm I'm really thankful to news

731
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 1: Rep for being the format and form that it is.

732
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 1: In that respect, I've spent ten years working with our

733
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 1: most seriously introvoted and hill service members and veterans and

734
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: non clinical rule starting with the stocom Care Coalition. I've

735
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: worked with traumatic amputation, serious burn victims, PTSD, military sexual trauma,

736
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: terminal illness such as cancer, UH and UH in many

737
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:09,839
Speaker 1: cases you know, wounded that are suffering from multiple diagnosis

738
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 1: across the board, and then in the private sector with

739
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 1: some really good impatient programs for behavioral health and substance dependency,

740
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 1: and the news Rep form has really allowed for a

741
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 1: consistent series on the issues facing our conventional in our

742
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:32,439
Speaker 1: soft people regarding behavioral health and substance to PEBS and suicide. Uh,

743
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 1: to come out and stay out there where it can

744
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: be seen and heard. Starting to get some really, they're

745
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: starting to take notice in some certain areas that are

746
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:46,919
Speaker 1: tracking on the series. And you're I mean, I don't

747
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 1: know if I would say your area of expertise, but

748
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,919
Speaker 1: your area of familiarity is up at Fort Lewis. Yeah.

749
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: I uh my, uh my a o R if you will.

750
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: Beginning into thousand nine, when I came out of the

751
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 1: Chapter thirty one program here in Portland and finished up

752
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: some really intensive behavior health work, I got diagnosed with

753
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 1: chronic combat PTSD and ten thousand and five and made

754
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: the decision to go after my new normal with as

755
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: much energy and commitment as I went after my TAB.

756
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: I've worked uh the Alaska, Hawaii, Japan, Korea, Northern California, Montana, Washington,

757
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 1: and Oregon military basis and vas for the last ten years,

758
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 1: so I'm pretty familiar with you know, how it all works,

759
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: how it all doesn't work. Based on on your research,

760
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 1: why do we have such an issue with soldier suicide?

761
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: And what do you think we can do? Maybe maybe

762
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 1: we you know, as in a country or um or

763
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: more specifically the army or even a specific unit. What

764
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: can we do to better address it? Wow? The million

765
00:47:55,680 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 1: dollar question? Yeah, yeah, I just been wished a pretty

766
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: significant article addressing the epidemic of recent suicidence of at

767
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,439
Speaker 1: Fort Wayne, right, Alaska. I'm from Fairbanks, Alaska, so it's

768
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: a subject near and dear to my heart. Uh. And

769
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: the brigade that came to our attention, which you'll see

770
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 1: in the story, was incredibly responsive and helpful uh and

771
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: has been doing some really good things which appear in

772
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,879
Speaker 1: the story. Has to education and peer support groups being

773
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: set up and things like that. Uh. So, internally, whether

774
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: it's regardless of service, UH, the units really have a

775
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: great part in breaking down the stigma, behavioral health, and

776
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 1: the wantings of war that we call invisible because they're internal. Uh.

777
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: And they are attached to not only our souls, but

778
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 1: our spirits as well as our moses. Community community is

779
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: getting involved. That's really the key. The community, wherever you

780
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 1: may be. Let's take Fairbanks for an example. UH. If

781
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 1: the community gets involved and provides resources and partners with

782
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,839
Speaker 1: the military, and the military comes out of its shell

783
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: and partners with the civilian resources, you're going to mitigate

784
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 1: the not necessarily the causes, but you're going to mitigate

785
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: the disastrous results when you have either attempted suicide or suicide.

786
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 1: And quite frankly, service members have to take responsibility for themselves.

787
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: We're the rest spons to know when we're out of kilter.

788
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 1: We know when our knee hurts, we know when we're

789
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: having trouble with our vision, we know when we've broken

790
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: an ankle. We also know when something is not right inside.

791
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 1: And the climate now is so much better than it

792
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 1: was for Vietnam veterans and and even ten years ago

793
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 1: in terms of being able to go in and sit

794
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 1: down and say, look, I really really need to talk

795
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 1: to somebody and need some help. And that is you know,

796
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: that is how we That's how we confront what we're

797
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 1: seeing today. Are there any particular programs in the military

798
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 1: um that you think are particularly effective? There are some,

799
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: and have been some really good programs for substance and

800
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: behavioral health, and has the series that I've been writing

801
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: has shown. Sadly, these programs have been gutted in many,

802
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 1: many instances, the military has a real shortage of both

803
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: substance abuse therapists and behavioral health therapists, and now they're

804
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 1: not the same. They're entirely two different treatment tracks and

805
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 1: certification and experienced tracks. Uh. The services are way way

806
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 1: short of these folks, but the case loads have not

807
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 1: dropped because they expected they were going to back in

808
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: two thousand and twelve two thousand and thirteen, they've remained

809
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 1: the same and in some instances have actually increased. The

810
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:13,359
Speaker 1: senior leadership, in my opinion from the instances we've looked at,

811
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: has just basically taken a knee to the field commanders

812
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 1: and anything you want to do with this soldier, you know,

813
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 1: we'll do it. We'll sign off on it. UH. Basically

814
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: thrown in the towel in terms of advocating on the

815
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: many fronts that they could and should be for for

816
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 1: the individual soldier. A matter of fact, the case of

817
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:38,879
Speaker 1: Matthew Brown in the first two installments were behavioral health,

818
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 1: but Fort Louis at Madigan Army Hospital absolutely knowingly condemned

819
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:49,959
Speaker 1: him to death by stepping back and letting a JAB

820
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: officer at a brigade uh go ahead and court martial um.

821
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: And he did exactly what he told him he was

822
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:57,799
Speaker 1: going to do. And that's on record, you know, he

823
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 1: retrieved his pistol from uh a friend he'd left it

824
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: with before he went in patient, and returned to his

825
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 1: quarters and shot himself. So, you know, there's some real

826
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 1: problems with our military behavioral health people that are just

827
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: simply being masked where misdirected. I just saw where the

828
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 1: the Army has said, Hey, we're gonna let We're gonna

829
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 1: let soldiers go in private sector without telling their commanders

830
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 1: or anybody else. They're going in for care and treatment

831
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: for drugs and substance abuse problems. Uh, so that there's

832
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 1: no you know, no stigma, no this, that and the other. Well,

833
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: in reality, what they're saying is, uh, we were so

834
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 1: we're so screwed up in this area right now, and

835
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 1: it's costing us so much money, and our behavioral health

836
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: and substance people are bailing as fast as they can

837
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:56,879
Speaker 1: because we're making totally unreasonable demands upon them, uh for

838
00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: production and reports and this. Uh that we're just going

839
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 1: to throw it to the private sector. Uh it's a

840
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 1: really interesting little dodge to throw in the towel. And

841
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 1: at the same time, and another story, they just came

842
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 1: out and said that they're cutting over seventeen thousand medical

843
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 1: positions in the Army doctors, nurses, technicians, therapists basically because

844
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:21,919
Speaker 1: they're not come up with a new paradigm for Army

845
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 1: medical care because it's a pretty screwed up deal across

846
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: the board, and that's why we have the problems we have.

847
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 1: Listen older suicide at the extreme for ourand of course,

848
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 1: jeez yeah, I mean, if if that all that happening,

849
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 1: you can see the writing on the wall that the

850
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 1: problem is just going to continue to get worse. And

851
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 1: I hope things have gotten better at the unit level

852
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,920
Speaker 1: a little bit. As you talk about, Um, I have

853
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 1: a friend or I had a friend. I won't mention

854
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 1: his name here, but I went through the Q course

855
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 1: with him and he was stationed at Fort Lewis, and um,

856
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 1: you know he had his personal life blow up on him. Um,

857
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,399
Speaker 1: you know, wife, we took the kids and left, and

858
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 1: he said, I'm sorry the wife left him with the

859
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 1: kids and left, and um, he told his unit he said,

860
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 1: I can't deploy. I'm I'm a single dad now and

861
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: they fired him from his O d A and called

862
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: him a coward. Um, so he shot himself. It's like,

863
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 1: you know, no wonder why this stuff is happening. Yeah,

864
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 1: it's it's it's so out of control. I've worked with

865
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 1: first group soldiers in commands for ten years with some

866
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 1: pretty serious cases, and I have no doubt that what

867
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:42,839
Speaker 1: you just recounted took place. I I saw guys that

868
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 1: were you know, really good special force of soldiers UH

869
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 1: and mid level n c O and above in some

870
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: cases officers that were just denigrated, just really put the

871
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 1: task by individual command ends and commanders and sergeant majors

872
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:07,399
Speaker 1: and that, and very nearly that came close to taking

873
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:09,279
Speaker 1: their own lives or to take their own lives. Mike

874
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 1: Mandanudo is a prime example of that covered in the

875
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 1: first two installments. And you know, again overall the big

876
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 1: picture is, uh, we weren't set up to fight for ever,

877
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: and we're going on eighteen eighteen and a half years now,

878
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 1: and what do you do that. Of Course, people's mindsets

879
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 1: and their feelings and their their sense of responsibility to

880
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,800
Speaker 1: what and to who changes, and that's why we see

881
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:42,359
Speaker 1: what we do coming out of some of these units

882
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,919
Speaker 1: and doing what they're doing to the soldiers and all

883
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 1: of this. Of course, when the guys and gals get

884
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 1: out and become veterans. About five years ago, the military

885
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 1: d D said, Hey, we're going to partner with the

886
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,919
Speaker 1: v A because the VA is where all of our

887
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:59,280
Speaker 1: troops that are getting out or being discharged or separated

888
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 1: from service are I go to. So we want to

889
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 1: make sure that we're working in sync with them. Or

890
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:05,320
Speaker 1: what they were really saying was, Hey, we're going to

891
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 1: just throw all of this on the VA so we

892
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 1: can cut our losses and cut our are having to

893
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 1: provide the kinds of services and specialists that are needed

894
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: to maintain and sustain soldier health. And that's exactly what

895
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 1: has happened. So it's pretty vicious cycle. Makes me angry

896
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,640
Speaker 1: to hear that you have all these different parties who

897
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 1: are basically differing um and don't want to take responsibility

898
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:32,359
Speaker 1: for you honestly, the mess that that the Army leaves

899
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 1: in its way a lot of times, well, the Army

900
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 1: and the Navy and the Air Force and the Marines

901
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 1: and Post Guard, uh, you know all of them are

902
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 1: of this of mindset in general. You know, you you

903
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: do have some just incredible frontline therapists and psychologists and

904
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 1: psychiatrists and uh substance abuse experts who are and have

905
00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 1: worked themselves near to death and in the if I

906
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,880
Speaker 1: know one in particular who has had the medically retire

907
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 1: because it was just impossible for that person to continue

908
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 1: to fight what has been going on over the last

909
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 1: several years, UH, in terms of do as we do

910
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 1: and not as we say. And they're you know, they're

911
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 1: worn't out and they're leaving. And so that's leaving us

912
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 1: with lack of experience as well as it's bringing in

913
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 1: new new people that don't have the experience, and they're

914
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 1: going to be inculcated with a philosophy and a doctrine

915
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 1: that is not helpful. UH. And it's also leaving us

916
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 1: with the ash and trash that comes in with the psychiatric,

917
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 1: behavioral health and substance UH staffs. You know, I'm just

918
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 1: here to get my paycheck, get my retirement, and you know,

919
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 1: anything that you wanting to do or say what I'm

920
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 1: going to do or say, and a lot of those hopes, unfortunately,

921
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:54,400
Speaker 1: are running the roost right now. I'd also like to

922
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 1: provide some helpful information to people who are listening to this,

923
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 1: And I was wondering if you have any if there

924
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: is a soldier out there or veteran out there who's

925
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 1: having suicidal thoughts or has a friend of theirs who

926
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 1: is contemplating this and has made shown some warning signs,

927
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 1: What kind of advice would you give to them? Recognize

928
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 1: that those signals that are given, when there are signals given,

929
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:21,440
Speaker 1: most of us that are close to somebody or have

930
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 1: some kind of a relationship that's positive with them will

931
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 1: pick up on things that they say or how they

932
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 1: say it, will notice if they are beginning to isolate

933
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 1: or or isolating themselves or not participating in the activities

934
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 1: for us that they used to. Watch what they put

935
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 1: on the Internet and on social media and what they

936
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 1: live stream. In the preparation of the story I just

937
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 1: completed for news Reps, a soldier up at Fort Wayne

938
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 1: right his live streaming his suicidal ideation and intent, and

939
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: one of those buddies saw it and immediately did an intervention,

940
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 1: and they got you know, they got there and they

941
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:05,480
Speaker 1: plucked him to at least temporary safety. So watch what

942
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 1: folks are saying on media, what they say in texts,

943
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: those kinds of things the most important thing, I think,

944
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 1: and those that I respect that are professionals and clinicians

945
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 1: in the field listen, ask somebody how are you today?

946
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 1: How are you doing? And oftentimes that's enough for somebody

947
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 1: to start to open up and sharing with you, I

948
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 1: ain't doing that good, and then you can you can

949
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 1: explore from there. It's just a matter a matter of fact.

950
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 1: The brigade commander if it waynewright, gave us a marvelous statement,

951
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 1: which is I was really impressed with where he got.

952
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 1: To paraphrase him, he said, Hey, you know, I try

953
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 1: to make sure that the chan command knows to let

954
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 1: our soldiers know and to teach and train our soldiers.

955
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 1: We got to take care of each other. And you

956
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 1: guys are the front line when you guys know each

957
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 1: other the best. I don't My job is to provide,

958
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 1: you know, the resources and the response and the right

959
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 1: attitude to do interventions and preventions and help. But you

960
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 1: know we have to, you know, we've got to take

961
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:11,680
Speaker 1: care of the dirogal on the right in the laptome,

962
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 1: you know, and on our six And that's that's what

963
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 1: we need to do as a community. We do that

964
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 1: will start saving lives, will mitigate the crisis. Um, that's

965
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 1: what's important. Yeah, I was thinking about it the other

966
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 1: day for some reason. And you know, we talk a

967
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: lot about veterans helping veterans, which is very important, as

968
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:32,439
Speaker 1: you were pointing out just there. I mean, it's those

969
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 1: team leaders and squad leaders and platoon sergeants who are

970
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 1: going to see it before you know, some battalion commander does.

971
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I would offer that, you know,

972
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 1: as veterans, we can't necessarily treat other veterans, including our friends.

973
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 1: They have to actually go and receive some mental health

974
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,479
Speaker 1: treatment from a professional. And so I would just offer

975
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 1: that as well, Yeah, we unless you're and even if

976
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: you were, because so many veterans thankfully are over the

977
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:03,920
Speaker 1: last years the last decade have really gotten into the

978
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 1: medical field and babel help field and become therapists and

979
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 1: clinicians and them that, and that's uh, that's such a

980
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: welcome addition to that particular population because they get it,

981
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 1: you know, in general. So yeah, if you have somebody

982
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 1: that's in that position and you know, you know they're

983
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 1: a close friend, there's so many things out there. You

984
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 1: jump to the internet, you can contact the suicide Prevention

985
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 1: team up at your local VA or at your Sea

986
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 1: box and let them know wh I got somebody who's

987
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 1: in trouble. How do I go about getting them to you?

988
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 1: Warrior Program, which I'm a big fan of now that

989
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 1: they've had the change of leadership. UH. They have some

990
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 1: incredibly good programs combat stress programs where they financially provide

991
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 1: counselors that are trained for this kind of a thing

992
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 1: in the private sector to conduct counseling and intervention. And

993
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 1: then they have a Warrior Pure network where they can

994
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:02,440
Speaker 1: actually bring someone who's role in the program in for

995
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 1: either intensive outpatient or in some cases in patient therapy.

996
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 1: I worked a lot with Winter Warrior Program UH in

997
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 1: doing just that, primarily homeless post on eleven veterans that

998
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 1: were so catastrophic that the v A couldn't couldn't bring

999
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 1: them into either a impatient program for behavioral health or

1000
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 1: substance abuse until they were stabilized. So win A Warrior

1001
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:31,919
Speaker 1: Program would pick up the bill right up front, which

1002
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 1: is about thirty five thousand dollars a shot for a

1003
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 1: twenty eight days stay UH in a good private sector

1004
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 1: of program which they met and UH and then move

1005
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:48,640
Speaker 1: them into intensive outpatient and that phenomenal program. UH. I

1006
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:51,560
Speaker 1: wish they would do more advertising about about that than

1007
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:55,919
Speaker 1: they do with you know, uh, their mainstay of prosthetics

1008
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 1: and things like that. You just got to have a

1009
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 1: little a little short list and say, look, I can

1010
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:02,280
Speaker 1: help you, get to help with it, help us what

1011
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 1: you want, and you can make it happen. We're all interconnected. Greg.

1012
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for you know, sharing this information

1013
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,920
Speaker 1: with us today. Is there anything else that you wanted

1014
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:18,080
Speaker 1: to cover before we get going? Oh? Uh, I think

1015
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:22,960
Speaker 1: it is so important having been there myself and uh

1016
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 1: discovered and work towards my what I call a new normal,

1017
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:30,640
Speaker 1: and that is this is part of historically of what

1018
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 1: goes on with warriors. And we would never knowingly go

1019
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 1: up to an amputee wearing a prosthetic that perhaps we

1020
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: and say, jeez, why can't you be like you were

1021
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:45,320
Speaker 1: before you lost your leg, or someone who's been blinded, Gee,

1022
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 1: I wish you could be more like you were when

1023
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 1: you lost your eyesight. We never do that. So we're

1024
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 1: untangling the stigma and the prejudice about saying, you know, gee,

1025
01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:59,440
Speaker 1: I wish you you know, I wish you were like

1026
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 1: your word for you. It went on multiple tours and

1027
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 1: one big tour where you saw some terrible things and

1028
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 1: you know now you're having mental health issues. The body, spirit, mind,

1029
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 1: it all works together, and when one is hurt or broken,

1030
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 1: the other two or other one doesn't work that well. Uh,

1031
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 1: So really embracing uh you know the fact that it

1032
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:25,240
Speaker 1: is a one big circle, and it is so important

1033
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 1: the guys and gals that are coming back from this

1034
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 1: and are are finding their new normals and re engaging

1035
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:35,080
Speaker 1: in life and are becoming great parents again. They're they're

1036
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 1: entering into professions that you would never expect that they

1037
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 1: will be able to enter into. I was blessed with that,

1038
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 1: as well as a number of people I met at

1039
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:46,280
Speaker 1: the SOT Calm Care Coalition. It's possible to come back

1040
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 1: and to be better, and that's what our goal and

1041
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 1: our objective should be. That's an awesome point. Greg Um

1042
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 1: and I would say the same thing is that going

1043
01:04:56,600 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 1: and getting treatment works. Like I have seen guy who

1044
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 1: um you can visibly see PTSD in their face, like

1045
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 1: they just look drained and exhausted, and then they go

1046
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 1: and get treatment and when they come back it's like

1047
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 1: literally they're getting their lives back, like they're a new man.

1048
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:16,280
Speaker 1: It's a new person. So if there are any people

1049
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 1: out there listening to this who are dealing with those

1050
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 1: issues right now. I hope that they'll listen to what

1051
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 1: you're saying and maybe listen to what I'm saying and

1052
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 1: understand that, like you can get better, Like you can

1053
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 1: come back from that. Yeah you can. And we have

1054
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 1: may do an article on this. We have been uh

1055
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 1: keeping operators from our soft units in the game and

1056
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 1: redeploying them to combat who are diagnosed with combat PTSD

1057
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:47,320
Speaker 1: because they've taken advantage of the procedures and systems and

1058
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 1: processes in service UH to address that. And quite frankly,

1059
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 1: they're considered to be too too much of an investment

1060
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 1: in them just to put them out. And that's why

1061
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:03,200
Speaker 1: you have to combat stressed teams. You're satellite Aglian block,

1062
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:08,640
Speaker 1: which is a whole new process for treatment. UH. So

1063
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:12,440
Speaker 1: we're putting people right back into the fray UH and

1064
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 1: UH and they're doing you know, they're doing good work. Again.

1065
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 1: I would recommend to anybody that's interested that they read

1066
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 1: Dr Edward Tick's book War and the Soul UH and

1067
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 1: then his follow on book Warriors Return. We use those

1068
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 1: at the so Calm Care Coalition UH for our wounded. UH.

1069
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:39,440
Speaker 1: Dr take has been doing work with PTSD veterans Vietnam

1070
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 1: Generation Forward for a security years. He's the most incredible, humble, kind,

1071
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:49,240
Speaker 1: but insightful man on this subject, as well as his

1072
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:53,240
Speaker 1: wife Kate. And both of his books are written at

1073
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 1: the layman's level. So the very Understandable Mission twenty two

1074
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 1: uses own song caricula and I was using them. I

1075
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:05,400
Speaker 1: recommend either of those two books. Uh, it'll really give

1076
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: you a good foundation for traction and to say, wow,

1077
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:12,560
Speaker 1: this isn't just me, this goes, this goes all the

1078
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:15,120
Speaker 1: way back to the Greeks and on the Romans and

1079
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 1: the Spartans and everybody else. Really really good tool. That's great, Greg,

1080
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 1: thanks for sharing that with us. And um, I think

1081
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to have you on again. I know

1082
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 1: there's many many more topics that you and I can

1083
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:31,960
Speaker 1: get into, and uh, they will will wait for you

1084
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 1: to publish a few more articles and we'll have you

1085
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 1: back on and discuss that. That would be great. I

1086
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 1: appreciate that. It's a wonderful forum. Yeah, any time, Greg,

1087
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:42,200
Speaker 1: thank you. Any final thoughts. I'm just going to put

1088
01:07:42,200 --> 01:07:45,760
Speaker 1: a plug in for news wrap writing for a long

1089
01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:49,360
Speaker 1: time and mostly for print media. And I am absolutely

1090
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 1: delighted at UH News Reppia being almost real time and

1091
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:59,439
Speaker 1: then UH having the opportunity to keep things out there

1092
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 1: from our different authors that are important and keep them

1093
01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 1: in the spotlight. But I think the thing I like

1094
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 1: the most about it is that we can embed articles

1095
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:12,000
Speaker 1: and not for the reader to go okay, I can

1096
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:13,840
Speaker 1: go right to this and see where that came from

1097
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:16,479
Speaker 1: and where this was said, and then the real time

1098
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:21,280
Speaker 1: exchange between authors and the author's reader is fascinating. To

1099
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:24,200
Speaker 1: be able to, you know, see somebody's comment or letter

1100
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 1: to the editor and roll and then be able to

1101
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:28,639
Speaker 1: send a note back. Just really a great job, a

1102
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:31,639
Speaker 1: really good thought process, and you know, twenty one century

1103
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:35,479
Speaker 1: professional media. Well thanks for working with us, Greg, I

1104
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:37,559
Speaker 1: mean it's been a pleasure and I really think you're

1105
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:42,200
Speaker 1: doing some important and illuminating work. Thanks. I'm just a

1106
01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:46,080
Speaker 1: cog in the wheel, brother, all aren't we? All Well?

1107
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:48,599
Speaker 1: All right, Greg, thank you so much again for joining

1108
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:50,639
Speaker 1: us today, and um we'll have to have you back

1109
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:53,679
Speaker 1: on again real soon. You guys have a tremendous week

1110
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:57,240
Speaker 1: and day Oppresso Levers all right you too, Greg? Thank you?

1111
01:08:57,400 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 1: That was good. Yeah, good interview. I mean heavy topic.

1112
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:05,920
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. Well, I mean on the first time

1113
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:10,640
Speaker 1: you had the Bayas stuff, which is fascinating it. So

1114
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:14,519
Speaker 1: I mean we've we've spoke off air about it, um.

1115
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:17,000
Speaker 1: But then you know, you get into mental health and

1116
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:19,320
Speaker 1: it's nothing to joke about on any level, and it's

1117
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:22,600
Speaker 1: just it's such a topic that needs to be discussed.

1118
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:24,800
Speaker 1: And like you had asked him what can we do

1119
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:26,760
Speaker 1: to help at the end, and I think the main

1120
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:30,519
Speaker 1: take would just ask questions. Yeah, yeah, I mean Greg

1121
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:33,679
Speaker 1: has been intimately involved, um and that stuff, as he mentioned,

1122
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:37,240
Speaker 1: for quite a while. Um. You know, I know I've

1123
01:09:37,280 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 1: said on here before my I had one of my

1124
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:41,800
Speaker 1: teammates on my O d A kill himself a while

1125
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:44,640
Speaker 1: back after we were both out of the army at

1126
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:48,040
Speaker 1: the point. Um. But it's just horrible stuff. And you

1127
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:53,679
Speaker 1: know it's uh, it's not my fault and it's nobody

1128
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:56,280
Speaker 1: else's fault that this guy killed himself. I mean, he

1129
01:09:56,600 --> 01:09:59,640
Speaker 1: made a decision. But at the same time, I had

1130
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:03,920
Speaker 1: lost track of him for a while, and I I wish,

1131
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 1: you know, of course, in retrospect, like maybe I should

1132
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:10,320
Speaker 1: have been a bit more involved. Um. You know, that's

1133
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:12,479
Speaker 1: that's with hindsight of course, you know, you know, you

1134
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:15,800
Speaker 1: don't know what you don't know. But regardless of that,

1135
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:18,160
Speaker 1: I mean, keep an eye on your buddies, you know,

1136
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 1: and uh and and you know, try to be aware

1137
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:24,400
Speaker 1: of some of those signs even something I mean, especially

1138
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:27,519
Speaker 1: in today's world, like just sent him a text, Yeah, yeah,

1139
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:30,200
Speaker 1: just hey, what's up man? Thinking about you? Like, how's

1140
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:33,680
Speaker 1: everything going? Something that's simple, and you know, maybe he

1141
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:36,600
Speaker 1: opens up, maybe he doesn't, but you can't figure it

1142
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:38,880
Speaker 1: out unless unless you make an attempt. I've had those

1143
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 1: calls a few times, talking somebody off the ledge and

1144
01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:45,840
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's Yeah, it's an uncomfortable feeling, but it's

1145
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:50,080
Speaker 1: better than the alternative for sure. Yes, absolutely, So you know,

1146
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 1: reach out and try and help, like i mean, Greg,

1147
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:56,160
Speaker 1: plenty of insight there, yeah, and I mean plenty of

1148
01:10:56,200 --> 01:10:59,759
Speaker 1: resources he mentions there also to get some for people

1149
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:02,800
Speaker 1: to get some help. Um. So yeah, that's a really

1150
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:05,160
Speaker 1: great interview and we'll have him on again, you know,

1151
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:07,640
Speaker 1: as he's working on other articles. I know what some

1152
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:09,800
Speaker 1: of them are about, and we'll have him on again.

1153
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:13,680
Speaker 1: And his biography of Michael A. Shaunis or Acanus. I'm

1154
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:16,519
Speaker 1: sorry if I'm not pronouncing his name right. Is another

1155
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:20,639
Speaker 1: one of those interesting um mysteries. He was that guy

1156
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:23,599
Speaker 1: was a Special Forces soldier as well, and he died

1157
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 1: under somewhat mysterious circumstances down in Central America. His plane

1158
01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:31,559
Speaker 1: either blew up or crashed. Um. Well, we'll we'll have

1159
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:33,240
Speaker 1: to we'll get into it with Greg and he'll he'll

1160
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:35,680
Speaker 1: he'll lay the whole story on us. But that's a

1161
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 1: whole other subject right there that we'll get into another time.

1162
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:42,960
Speaker 1: I find that's the fascinating the not quite a conspiracy theory,

1163
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:47,120
Speaker 1: but what really had that? There are conspiracy theories swirling

1164
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:49,759
Speaker 1: around all that kind of stuff. Um. But but Greg

1165
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:51,960
Speaker 1: will get to the facts of it, um and that'll

1166
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:54,640
Speaker 1: be very interesting. And he writes great articles obviously, I

1167
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:57,439
Speaker 1: mean News Rep wouldn't Adam if if they didn't think

1168
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:01,080
Speaker 1: his his work was quality. He is. Uh, he's the

1169
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:03,400
Speaker 1: kind of guy that like I aspire to. You know,

1170
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:05,880
Speaker 1: he's been doing this longer than I have, and he

1171
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:09,160
Speaker 1: just does terrific work. So we want to thank Gregg

1172
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 1: for joining us. Uh at the end, noticed how he

1173
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 1: plugged news Rep and in that vein, I'm about to

1174
01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:19,559
Speaker 1: do the same fellow listeners. If you guys aren't signed

1175
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:21,320
Speaker 1: up for news at first off, what are you doing? Like,

1176
01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:25,719
Speaker 1: get with it? It's simple. It's the news Rep dot com.

1177
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:28,640
Speaker 1: You've got to get on board. There's expert reporting and

1178
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:31,439
Speaker 1: actionable intelligence from your favorite writers you've heard of, like

1179
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:33,720
Speaker 1: the man sitting on my left, Jack Murphy. You've got

1180
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:35,479
Speaker 1: Stav Rose. I'm not even gonna attempt to do his

1181
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:38,760
Speaker 1: last name. He writes great stuff. Long Greek class name, Yeah,

1182
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:42,000
Speaker 1: very long and Greek. Uh. Greg Walker, We just we

1183
01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:44,800
Speaker 1: just spoke with him for you know, almost an hour

1184
01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:47,680
Speaker 1: maybe more. Uh. He writes great articles. Be sure to

1185
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 1: check them out. There's unlimited access to News Rep on

1186
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:54,000
Speaker 1: any device, unlimited access to the app, join the war room, community,

1187
01:12:54,320 --> 01:12:57,800
Speaker 1: invitations to our exclusive events, and it's all ad free

1188
01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:01,280
Speaker 1: from members. There's a trial offer up right now where

1189
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:05,400
Speaker 1: you get four weeks for only one dollars. Be sure

1190
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 1: to sign up now at the news Rep dot com.

1191
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:12,559
Speaker 1: That's the news Rep dot com. Be sure to check

1192
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 1: out our Crate Club. It's a club four men by

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Speaker 1: men of gear, head picked by special Operations veterans. All

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Speaker 1: your subscription for all creates sign up today. Also as

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01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:47,320
Speaker 1: a reminder for you listeners, now is the time to

1203
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:50,519
Speaker 1: sign up for spec Ops Channel, our channel that offers

1204
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:54,040
Speaker 1: the most exclusive shows, documentaries and interviews covering the most

1205
01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:57,719
Speaker 1: exciting military content today. The spec Ops channel premier show

1206
01:13:58,040 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 1: Training Cell follows formers rushchal Operation Forces as they participate

1207
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:04,519
Speaker 1: in the most advanced training in the country, everything from

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Speaker 1: shooting schools, defensive driving, jungle and winter warfare, climbing and

1209
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Speaker 1: much more. Again, you can watch this content by subscribing

1210
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:16,040
Speaker 1: to the spec Ops channel at specops channel dot com

1211
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:19,160
Speaker 1: and take advantage of a membership for only four month

1212
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:23,320
Speaker 1: that spec ops channel dot com. Sign up today. By

1213
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:25,439
Speaker 1: the way, if you're not aware, we have our own

1214
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:28,640
Speaker 1: softwap radio app that you can download for free on

1215
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:32,679
Speaker 1: either iPhone or Android, and our homepage is soft rep

1216
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 1: radio dot com, where you can see all our full

1217
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:38,360
Speaker 1: archive of shows like the one we just had today

1218
01:14:38,360 --> 01:14:41,800
Speaker 1: with Greg Walker. As always keep up with us on

1219
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:46,200
Speaker 1: social media at SOFTWAREP Radio as well. And that was

1220
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:50,080
Speaker 1: my first foray into the live reads. Hopefully, Uh, you

1221
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:53,599
Speaker 1: guys won't notice the difference between Ian and I if

1222
01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:56,760
Speaker 1: you need them one Scott, Oh, yeah, he claims he's

1223
01:14:56,760 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 1: in Arizona. I don't think that's true. Ceo T. T

1224
01:15:01,320 --> 01:15:05,400
Speaker 1: O Scotto. He he would say he was upset that

1225
01:15:05,479 --> 01:15:07,360
Speaker 1: you were trying to push for him and to getting

1226
01:15:07,479 --> 01:15:11,559
Speaker 1: into male prostitution. I think he enjoyed whatever pays the bills, bro,

1227
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:15,520
Speaker 1: And in my mind, he's servicing those Upper East sidewives

1228
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:18,120
Speaker 1: right now. I mean there's a market. There is a market.

1229
01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:20,760
Speaker 1: I told him there's a market, and that's really what

1230
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:23,280
Speaker 1: he's doing. He says. He says he's climbing rocks and Sedona.

1231
01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:30,839
Speaker 1: I'm in quote unquote Arizona. Okay, Bro whatever. Um, obviously,

1232
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:33,639
Speaker 1: great interview with Greg Walker. I don't know what else

1233
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:36,599
Speaker 1: you'd like to discuss. That was. I know you were

1234
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:40,599
Speaker 1: excited we we had talked off air about the bias stuff. Um,

1235
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:44,200
Speaker 1: you guys talked at end about that that that's just

1236
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:47,680
Speaker 1: a fascinating that. It's a weird story, isn't it. And absolutely,

1237
01:15:47,720 --> 01:15:49,760
Speaker 1: and I like I I told you off air, I'm

1238
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:53,559
Speaker 1: not as well vert as Ian. Let alone you you

1239
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:57,719
Speaker 1: go on, you go on deep dives. So I'm excited

1240
01:15:57,720 --> 01:16:00,280
Speaker 1: to join the show. One because it's a great it's

1241
01:16:00,280 --> 01:16:03,479
Speaker 1: a great program, and too because I'm absolutely gonna learn

1242
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:07,439
Speaker 1: more stuff about little things, I mean not little things,

1243
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:10,679
Speaker 1: but stories like this that maybe fans of the show

1244
01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:14,920
Speaker 1: aren't aware or definitely people like myself who just you know,

1245
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:18,120
Speaker 1: know the military on very face value to start. Yeah, yeah,

1246
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:21,120
Speaker 1: you will hear some weird things on this podcast, for sure,

1247
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:23,040
Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the things that kind

1248
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:26,000
Speaker 1: of sets us apart. Um. There are a lot of

1249
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:29,160
Speaker 1: military podcasts out there, but a lot of them are

1250
01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:33,679
Speaker 1: kind of like on a surface level. Um, And I mean, honestly,

1251
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:36,120
Speaker 1: I don't listen too many other podcasts tell you the truth,

1252
01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 1: but I mean I feel like there's a lot of

1253
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:40,400
Speaker 1: stuff out there that's kind of like support the troops

1254
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:42,120
Speaker 1: and this and that, And I mean, we support the

1255
01:16:42,120 --> 01:16:45,000
Speaker 1: troops too, but also we want to dig a little

1256
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:47,240
Speaker 1: bit beneath the surface and kind of dig up some

1257
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:50,760
Speaker 1: of these interesting stories. Um So, I mean I think

1258
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:54,960
Speaker 1: this podcast is a little more niche perhaps uman than

1259
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:56,920
Speaker 1: some of the other stuff out there, which is great

1260
01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:59,200
Speaker 1: because you know, you can if you're a fan of

1261
01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:01,960
Speaker 1: the military and general there they're the other podcast for that.

1262
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:05,280
Speaker 1: And then also if you want to delve deep into topics,

1263
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:08,120
Speaker 1: you know, mental mental health, like like Greg and you

1264
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:11,880
Speaker 1: just discussed, it's a serious issue and it's heavy and yeah,

1265
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:14,400
Speaker 1: you know it's not just you know, hey, we gotta

1266
01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:16,880
Speaker 1: we gotta help the troops. Okay, everybody can say that,

1267
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:19,680
Speaker 1: how can we do that? What? What are steps we

1268
01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:21,639
Speaker 1: can take? And not not too many people can talk

1269
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:24,719
Speaker 1: about it the way you know Greg can either um

1270
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:27,840
Speaker 1: with a kind of um compassion as well as credibility

1271
01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:30,880
Speaker 1: that that he has on this absolutely he uh the

1272
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:33,040
Speaker 1: article the article on news Rep. I mean, be sure

1273
01:17:33,040 --> 01:17:34,840
Speaker 1: to check it out. It's it's it's almost like a

1274
01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:38,040
Speaker 1: four part series. He covers, you know, three different men

1275
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:40,920
Speaker 1: um and then like an overall piece about it. And

1276
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:43,600
Speaker 1: it's tragic. You know, you don't want anybody to to

1277
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:48,960
Speaker 1: die from suicide. Yeah, it's it's avoidable. Um So, I

1278
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:52,840
Speaker 1: know I got you hard at work scheduling guests. Um,

1279
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:54,479
Speaker 1: and I know some of them you got laid on.

1280
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:57,280
Speaker 1: I'm pretty excited about some people I've been trying to

1281
01:17:57,320 --> 01:17:59,479
Speaker 1: actually get to come on for a while. Now. Yeah,

1282
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:01,479
Speaker 1: there there's one name. I mean, I don't we don't.

1283
01:18:01,479 --> 01:18:03,400
Speaker 1: We don't do spoilers, right, I don't want to. I'm

1284
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:05,599
Speaker 1: not given away. Actually not. Well, this one we talked

1285
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:08,920
Speaker 1: about before, Um, Jeff Kirkham wanted to come on, and

1286
01:18:09,240 --> 01:18:12,600
Speaker 1: we'll have our our epic uh collash a cough discussion

1287
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:15,360
Speaker 1: that's coming up. I am excited for that. I mean,

1288
01:18:15,479 --> 01:18:17,960
Speaker 1: at the very least, I can appreciate a K forty seven.

1289
01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:22,559
Speaker 1: Interesting again, interesting histories there for sure. And then there's

1290
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:24,160
Speaker 1: another one. I don't know if you want to mention

1291
01:18:24,320 --> 01:18:27,360
Speaker 1: his name, Um, but you you were excited for him,

1292
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 1: he said, you've been trying to get him for a while. Well, well,

1293
01:18:30,280 --> 01:18:32,479
Speaker 1: we'll hold off on that until until the day. But

1294
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:35,280
Speaker 1: that's coming up, what next week, right next Thursday, I

1295
01:18:35,320 --> 01:18:38,280
Speaker 1: believe next Thursday. So yeah, we're gonna have some really

1296
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:40,519
Speaker 1: cool stuff. And as I said, we're a little bit

1297
01:18:40,520 --> 01:18:42,720
Speaker 1: of a niche podcast in that sense that we get

1298
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:46,720
Speaker 1: that we're getting those little uh um. I don't necessarily

1299
01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:49,400
Speaker 1: want to say either stories that have not been written

1300
01:18:49,439 --> 01:18:52,519
Speaker 1: before or are are fairly obscure, and maybe a lot

1301
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:54,720
Speaker 1: of our audience has never heard of before. So we're

1302
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:57,200
Speaker 1: gonna We're gonna dig beneath the surface. That's a good thing,

1303
01:18:57,240 --> 01:19:00,640
Speaker 1: you know, always be learning. Yeah, and with that, I

1304
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:05,000
Speaker 1: think we you know, alright, first episode under my belt solo.

1305
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:07,800
Speaker 1: I can't thank you in enough. I I really want

1306
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:10,640
Speaker 1: to get that on record. He's he probably listened to

1307
01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:12,800
Speaker 1: the first ten minutes and he might listen to the

1308
01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:15,920
Speaker 1: last ten to make sure that you don't. So I

1309
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:17,720
Speaker 1: want to be sure to credit him. I can't thank

1310
01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:21,320
Speaker 1: you and enough. He was instrumental in getting me here

1311
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:25,240
Speaker 1: and teaching me the ropes, and hopefully it's a fairly

1312
01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:27,800
Speaker 1: seamless tradition. I'm not I'm not gonna have the uh

1313
01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:30,120
Speaker 1: what's the word. I'm looking for the chemistry right off

1314
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:33,600
Speaker 1: the bat that that you and Ian had. But I

1315
01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:37,400
Speaker 1: Ian worked with you what seven years? Yeah about? I

1316
01:19:37,439 --> 01:19:39,080
Speaker 1: think you and I can get there in about half

1317
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:43,360
Speaker 1: a year. We'll do some beerd docking after this. Oh man,

1318
01:19:43,439 --> 01:19:46,080
Speaker 1: you guys are missing out because it's just a podcast.

1319
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:50,960
Speaker 1: The the visuals here we're gonna Jack and I are

1320
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:54,880
Speaker 1: gonna get it along swimmingly. So thank you guys for

1321
01:19:54,960 --> 01:20:00,120
Speaker 1: listening as always Soft Rep Radio. Be sure Thursday we

1322
01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:02,439
Speaker 1: have one or two guys that I can lock in.

1323
01:20:02,479 --> 01:20:04,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to. I don't want to know yet

1324
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:06,360
Speaker 1: because I'm gonna try and mix some stuff around, but

1325
01:20:06,439 --> 01:20:08,920
Speaker 1: be sure to listen. Leave us a review. Thank you

1326
01:20:08,960 --> 01:20:12,200
Speaker 1: guys for listening as always, and we will see you Thursday.

1327
01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:14,960
Speaker 1: All right, we'll talk to you again. Then you've been

1328
01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:19,679
Speaker 1: listening to Self Rep Radio. New episodes up every Wednesday

1329
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:23,840
Speaker 1: and Friday. Follow the show on Instagram and Twitter at

1330
01:20:23,920 --> 01:20:32,160
Speaker 1: self Rep Radio m