1 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Emily and this is Bridget, and you're 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: listening to stuff Mom never told you. Now Today we 3 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: are joined by a very special guest, aren't we Bridget 4 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: very special, could not be more happy to have her here. 5 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: Same we are joined by our resident Lil Sis, my 6 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: little sis, isabel Aries. Welcome to the podcast. Hi, Emily 7 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: and Bridget, Thank you so much for having me. Thanks 8 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: so much for being here, because we are really excited 9 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: to dive into today's topic, all about women's colleges and 10 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: what's the deal with women's colleges, especially in today's day 11 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: and age where gender fluidity is the norm, And we 12 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: wanted to bring in someone like Isabelle, who happens to 13 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: be uh, second year student at Smith College, one of 14 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: the nation's most famous, really longest standing, revered women's colleges 15 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: based in Massachusetts. So is he How did you end 16 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: up at Smith? Let's start there. Um, Well, I wasn't 17 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 1: really intending to go to a women's college, and it 18 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: wasn't something that I was looking for specifically, but I 19 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: heard that Smith was an amazing place and it is, 20 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: and uh, it fits really well with a lot of 21 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: what I wanted out of the college. So I visited 22 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: and then I applied and I got in. The more 23 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: that I saw myself here and the more that I 24 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: imagine myself like living on campus and taking classes and 25 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: being in the kind of environment that a women's college provides, 26 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: I just found myself falling more and more in love 27 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: with it. So now I am finishing up my first 28 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: semester of my second year here, so it's just about 29 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: final season, and I am double majoring in biology and 30 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: environmental science and policy here. Now, so is it you 31 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: didn't go to a private or an all girl high 32 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: school when you were a bit younger. Did you just 33 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: go to a public school? Yeah? I um, up until college. 34 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: I was in public school my entire life, from like 35 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: kindergarten through my senior year of high school. So this 36 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: is my first experience, like in an educational setting that 37 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: is completely free of sins men. So, just in terms 38 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: of your anecdotal evidence from being on campus, would you 39 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: say a lot of the students there have a similar 40 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: kind of background where they went to a public school 41 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: or a co ed school and then somehow well and 42 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: up an all girls school or is it folks who 43 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: have gone to single sex schools for most of their lives. 44 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: I would say that now the amount of people who 45 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: went to single sex education and then came here to 46 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 1: a single sex secondary education um is very much a minority. 47 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: I think most people also went to public schools or 48 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: like also went to co ed schools of any kind 49 00:02:53,000 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: um and either intentionally or unintentionality like myself, um fummselves here. Yeah, 50 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: like all of us in our household were all public 51 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: school kids, and I experienced higher education that was also 52 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: co ed. Bridget you went to, as we've discussed a 53 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: few times on the pot already a single sex all 54 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: women's high school. Yeah, I went to women's school when 55 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: I was younger. Um, I feel I could talk about 56 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: this a lot because I loved it so much. But 57 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: I loved being around all girls. My school had a 58 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: relationship with the all boys military school called Benedictine High 59 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: School that was down the block. Fun fact that's where 60 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: Steve Bannon went to high school. More like a shameful 61 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: fact that I cringed every time I think about it 62 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: that we have anything in common at all. But yeah, 63 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: I went to all girls school for high school and 64 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: for a lot of my my upbringing, and when it 65 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: was time to pick a college. It never even occurred 66 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: to me to go to an all girl college, as 67 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: much as I liked all girl high school. Isn't that funny? 68 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: How this is something that wasn't on my radar at all, 69 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: having gone through co ed school in K through twelve, 70 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: and yet is it all ended up in an all 71 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: girls higher education. You went from all girls secondary to 72 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: co ed higher education. And it does seem like the 73 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: benefits which I want to talk about in a second 74 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: are very real. However, let's just level set for a 75 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: second by acknowledging the number of all female colleges has 76 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: diminished dramatically over the last fifty years. Even in nineteen 77 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: sixty there were over two hundred and fifty women's colleges, 78 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: But since Vassar went co ed in nineteen sixty nine 79 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: and Radcliffe was absorbed by Harvard as a research institution 80 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: in ninete. Even the revered Seven Sisters Network, a network 81 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: of historically all female colleges in the Northeast, many of 82 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: whom were founded as partner colleges to the all male 83 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: Ivy League schools that initially barred women. There are only 84 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: five of them left, so there are more than five 85 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: women's colleges in the country, but there are only five 86 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,040 Speaker 1: of even the seven Sisters revered New England call it 87 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: is Left, which include Smith. Doesn't that Yeah, Smith is 88 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 1: actually the largest of the seven Sisters. Well, what I 89 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 1: also find so interesting about that is that even though 90 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: there aren't as many women's colleges around as there used 91 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,799 Speaker 1: to be, actually demand is up for wanting to attend 92 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: women's colleges. According to the data from two thousand and 93 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: four to in the United States, applications to women's colleges 94 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: actually rose, and Bernard's class of one had a fourteen 95 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: point nine percent acceptance, right, a drop from sixteen point 96 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: seven percent just the year before. So what is that 97 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 1: the class of Oh? Interesting? Okay, So it feels like 98 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 1: this moment we find ourselves in politically, with the rise 99 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: of teen Vogue, you know, leading the feminist tween revolution, 100 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: and the political climate that we're in right now, it 101 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: doesn't really surprise me that there's been this renaissance in 102 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 1: value young all female or all women identified person environments. Well, 103 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: look at coworking spaces like the wing right, super super successful, 104 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: making a huge splash. I think that a lot of 105 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: folks are seeing the value more and more of spaces 106 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: where it's not overrun by SIS men. Yeah. Actually the 107 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: Smith class of one was over enrolled. Um Smith lot 108 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: in the same percentage of people that they normally do, 109 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: expecting some people to turn it down, but so many 110 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 1: more people decided to enroll than they were expecting. Wow, 111 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: that is so fascinating. It really seems like in the 112 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: very recent past there's been a new renaissance and excitement 113 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: around environments that all female higher education colleges, women's colleges 114 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: really have to offer. When you first stepped foot on 115 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: campus as a well, when you were just considering Smith 116 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: amongst the other colleges you applied to, did you notice 117 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: right away that there was a change in the experience 118 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: of being in all women's college. I mean, what stood 119 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: out to you as a significant before you were a 120 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:07,239 Speaker 1: student and after you enrolled. See when I was visiting Smith, 121 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: like when I was touring a campus because it was 122 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: the only women's college that I was going to, I 123 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: was really noticing. I was like, wow, there are just 124 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: absolutely no boys my age here, like no SIS boys 125 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: at all that I can see. And it was like 126 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: really cool. I mean it was not necessarily like kind 127 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: of shocking because obviously it's a women's scholars I was 128 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: expecting that, but it was just like, you really take 129 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: note of it. Like when we toured the science building, 130 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: all of the students and the science building were women 131 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: and it was great. And when we were to the 132 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: campus center, like the people that were making us drinks 133 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: and the people that were running the male center, who 134 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: are all students, they were all women, you know. I 135 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: mean it was just like very interesting to see that, 136 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: like they're really just wasn't a presence of guys. I 137 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: guess what's so funny is that when I toard colleges, 138 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: I had the same exact experience, only reversed. And so 139 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: in high school, going to an all girl high school, 140 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: everything was just girls all the time. We I think 141 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: we had one male teacher who was there sometimes, but 142 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: wasn't really there a lot. I probably did not know 143 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: more than five boys that were not blood relatives. Like 144 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: I did not know any dudes really at all. And 145 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: then when I toured my first college, which was co ed, 146 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: I was like there were just guys just around in 147 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: the classrooms, in the gym, They're just everywhere they're hanging around. 148 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: It was I had never seen that many men before. 149 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: It became a really interesting new thing where I thought, 150 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: is this what college is? Like? There's just guys all 151 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: was all around, it was hanging out. Did you feel 152 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: like excited about that? Or did you feel intimidated? And 153 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: the same question for you is he like did you 154 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: feel less under uh looking glass? Yeah? Okay? Um, I 155 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: mean it was just really nice. It was very just 156 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: chill because like even in a single sex educational institution, 157 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: there are so many different expressions, Like people were dressed 158 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: so differently, people had like lots of different haircuts and everything, 159 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: and it's just like there was just so much going 160 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: on um expression wise that it was just more exciting 161 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: and more like this is really cool and it seems 162 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: like a really freeing and really open environment. And like 163 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: now as a student here, um, I kind of see 164 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: where I was right and where in some parts that 165 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: I was wrong. And it's just very interesting to compare 166 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: like how I looked at Smith as an outsider um 167 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: with how I look at Smith now. Interesting. The pixie 168 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: power was palpable on campus Smith Chop Chop. I love it. 169 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: For me. This might sound a little bit strange, but 170 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: my high school was known for being academically very good, 171 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: and the boys school that was affiliated with our school 172 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: was not so much known for that. So when I 173 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: got to college and I saw boys in my class, 174 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: my first thought was are they smart? And I was. 175 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: I don't mean that in a mean way. I really 176 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: was like, Oh, boys can understand literature. This is gonna 177 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: be interesting. But I was very interesting to see how 178 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: what it would be like to be in a class 179 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: discussion with with guys, because in my experience going to 180 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: a school that was very academically rigorous and then knowing, oh, 181 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: all the all the boys who go to the boys 182 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: school are all like ubs in bag school and blah 183 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: blah blah, and that's where they are a black Yeah, 184 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: well that's what I mean. The kind of kid that 185 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: wound up at this school, at least when I was there, 186 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: was the kind of kid who was like needed to 187 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: go to military schools and military school right well as 188 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: sisters of a brother that went straight from high school 189 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: to military. That's interesting to me. I always feel like, 190 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: to me, that's one of the potential downsides of a 191 00:10:55,880 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: single sex education. Is like, that is totally valid, So 192 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: don't take this the wrong way, But I feel like 193 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: That's pure ignorance, isn't it. Oh it was like it 194 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: was ignorant. I have no concept of men being capable 195 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: of academic rigor. Yeah, it's basically the same sex ast 196 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: thing that men will say about women, Like a woman 197 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: doing geometry is like a dog doing you know, driving 198 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: a car. Yeah. I was like, oh, boy, understanding Sylvia Plath, 199 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: there's like a horse being a lawyer. The funniest part 200 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,559 Speaker 1: of that whole anecdote is that I went to co 201 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: ed schools up until college, and then even in my 202 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: first year of college. When we do like peer reviews 203 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: of like papers or labor horse and stuff. If something 204 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: is terribly written and it's given to me anonymously, my 205 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: first thought is is, oh, a boy must have written 206 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: this before I remember where I am. Well, there's something 207 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: to that. I mean, if we look at the data 208 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 1: on academic achievement, women and girls have been outperforming men 209 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: and boys in the ways that our academic uh meritocracy 210 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: is set up, and that's a problem. I mean, there's 211 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: articles written by hand Rosen about the boy crisis and 212 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: in education right now that are worth looking at. Different 213 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: podcasts not today's topic, but I think there's definitely something 214 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: to that. But at the same time, what people are 215 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: choosing for themselves when they go into an all women's 216 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: college is something very special, right, So that's not a 217 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: blind choice. It's a personal choice and it's a thoughtful, 218 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: mindful one that everybody makes when they're choosing their college 219 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: and what's the right cultural fit. So let's look at 220 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: some of these benefits. What are the major benefits from 221 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: enrolling in a women's college exactly. I couldn't agree more 222 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: with this quote from Nikki young Blood Giles, who attended 223 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:43,319 Speaker 1: Spellman College, basically highlighting and underscoring the importance of sisterhood 224 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: that you find on women's college campuses. I definitely found 225 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: that to be the case when I was in an 226 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: all girl educational environment. She says, it is important as 227 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: women to champion each other and be strong in the 228 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 1: face of adversity. The importance of sisterhood is ingrained in us. 229 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: But a sister, you may not be best friends or 230 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: like them, that there's no one you would go to 231 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: bat for more than your sister, And that really resonates 232 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: with me, and I think that that feeling of you know, 233 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: she may not look like me, she may not have 234 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: my same experience. She may not share my struggle, but 235 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: she is my sister, and I will go to bed 236 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: for her. I think that's one of the most important 237 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 1: benefits of being in a single sex environment. Yeah. I 238 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: think that's really true with Smith as well. The whole thing, 239 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: um where for the environment and Smith is very competitive, 240 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: but not competitive necessarily in a way where I want 241 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: to push you down so I can push myself up 242 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: over you, but more like this person is working very hard, 243 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: doing very well. I also want to work very hard 244 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: and do very well to prove that I am just 245 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: as good as or better than like this person. Um. 246 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: And like calling each other out in social experiences, like 247 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: instead of doing that where it's kind of just calling 248 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: somebody out on saying something wrong, or maybe like not 249 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: really understanding the background of other people, um, calling them 250 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: in and saying, hey, let's have a conversation about this, 251 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: Let's understand where you're coming from, and let's try to 252 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: have a conversation about where other people are coming from 253 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: and how what you did hurt people. Yeah, it's interesting 254 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: you mentioned it because there's not a lack of diversity 255 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: at women's colleges. It just goes to show you how 256 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: diverse women are in general. And it actually really reminds 257 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: me of a quote that came out of a past 258 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: episode that one of our amazing fans on Instagram turned 259 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: into a piece of art, which was, what makes us 260 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: different doesn't threaten our unity as women, right, And it 261 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: just goes to show you that there are so many 262 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: different kinds of women, that diversity and collins are going 263 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: to happen even in single sex environments, and that it 264 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: just goes to show you that sisterhood can persist even 265 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: in the face of that difference and maybe sometimes even 266 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: conflict around that difference. Yeah, we don't have to be 267 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: the same and have the same story, same background, same 268 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: struggles to support you other. And I think that's something 269 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: that I come back to time and time again. And 270 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: something important to note is that that's something I had 271 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: to learn. I wasn't born knowing that. I didn't always 272 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: know that. That's not something I always championed. It's something 273 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: that I learned honestly after you know, encountering lots of 274 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 1: different kinds of women, And so that just goes to 275 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: show you the importance of building community with women who 276 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: aren't like you. I think that there is a lot 277 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: to be said about the benefits of learning from other 278 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: people's experiences and being able to tie them in and 279 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: connect them um to your own. And I feel like 280 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: at Women's college, which you know, can focus on these 281 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: types of diversity, Like we have a program for college 282 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: students of nontraditional age and they are like coming in 283 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: and taking classes with us, and they are members of 284 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: the Smith community, and um a lot of people from 285 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: different like racial backgrounds, religious backgrounds, like different class backgrounds. 286 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: It's kind of thrown into the same pole together. That's great. 287 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: I also want to acknowledge this in credible list of 288 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: benefits or values that come from women's colleges that Simmons 289 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: College put together, which has some really astounding statistics. First 290 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: of all, they found that of women's college graduates felt 291 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: well prepared for their first job versus sixty of women 292 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: graduates from public universities. They also found that despite the 293 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: fact that women's college graduates make up less than two 294 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: percent of college graduates overall, they comprise more than twenty 295 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: percent of women in Congress and thirty of women on 296 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: Fortune one hundred boards. So women's college graduates be achieving 297 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: stuff like they are on the rise. That doesn't surprise 298 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: me even a little bit. When I graduated from an 299 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: all girl high school, I felt very prepared and very 300 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: sort of centered in my own goals and academic achievements 301 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: and all of that. So when it doesn't surprise me 302 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: at all that these women's college graduates also are going 303 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: on to feeling very very in control of their academic 304 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: lives and their their goals to come, totally not mentioned 305 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: the impact on STEM. We know that women are leaving 306 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: STEM fields at much higher rates than their male counterparts, 307 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: but students who attend women's colleges, they don't see that 308 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: same kind of drop off. On the collegiate level, there 309 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 1: are one point five times more likely to major in math, 310 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 1: science or premed than students attending co ed colleges. So 311 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: it just goes to show you that that experience of 312 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: seeing women in every role, whether it's in the mail 313 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: room or in the biology lab, right, seeing women represented 314 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: in every different job on campus, every different academic department 315 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: on campus. It's one of those see it be it 316 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: type situations where the role models are right there, right 317 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: in front of you. Yeah. Um, I know that when 318 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: I came to Smith and when I started taking science classes. 319 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: It was just amazing to see that there were so 320 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: many opportunities for undergraduate research that I mean, obviously they're 321 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: all going to go towards students here at Smith, so 322 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: like the labs are pretty much staffed by Smith students 323 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: that are like identify as email or identify as another 324 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: gender along the gender spectrum. It's really really amazing to 325 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: see that there are just so many people that are 326 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: doing so many different things across so many different fields. 327 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: Like my friends are majoring in physics and chemistry and 328 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 1: biochemistry and um like sell bio and like also like 329 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: women's studies and theater and the study of gender and 330 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 1: all of these different things. And it's really cool to 331 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: see that here it doesn't seem to be something that 332 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 1: holds people back. Just f y, I eithers a gender 333 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: and women's studies major in college alongside English. So one 334 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 1: of my best friends is a study of women in 335 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: gender major. Shout out to us gender studies major. Very humanity, yeah, 336 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: very expecific kind of person, very interested in long term unemployment, 337 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 1: like myself preparing the generation of tomorrow for the marketplace 338 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: of never. Yeah, my dad saying, oh, it's the women 339 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:19,120 Speaker 1: studies factory, you're gonna hire you. I mean, hello, look 340 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: at what we're doing right now. Absolutely, I love it. 341 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: I mean. The other interesting finding is classrooms of only 342 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 1: or mainly women's students seem to result in those students 343 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: participating more actively in the classroom, reporting higher levels of 344 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: active learning, higher order thinking, and more academic challenge throughout 345 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: their four years of college than women who are asked 346 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: to report on the same indicators in a co ed setting. So, Isabel, 347 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: did you find yourself participating more in a women's college 348 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: environment than you did in a coed high school? Well, 349 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: I don't think that there has ever been a time 350 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: in my entire life when I have not talked over 351 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: everybody else we share that gene is that? Is that 352 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: a family trait just out of curiosity in the areas 353 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: I know, in the areas find minto I swear, I 354 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,360 Speaker 1: think that you guys, you guys rehearse this as a bit. No, 355 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: is not a bit. But in the area's household, everything's 356 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: a bit. In the aira's household, you have to compete 357 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: for air time with six of us who are trying 358 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: to get our port and grass right? Is he? And 359 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 1: I am the youngest of four, So I've had to 360 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: shout like extra loud and say things like three or 361 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: four or five times before anybody actually acknowledges me, which 362 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: now as like a pure In college, my friends will 363 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: have to literally say, Isabelle, we hear you before I 364 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: can move on. It's funny. I get that too. Yeah, 365 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: how how strange? So we're maybe anomalies and I and 366 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: that question doesn't necessarily apply. But but I think, um 367 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: that in college, I am having more meaningful interactions with 368 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: students in the clastroom, in more meaningful interactions with my professors, 369 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: because it's less of a like me answering the questions 370 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: that we can move on in more of a me 371 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: answering the question and then asking another question for follow up, 372 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: and then another student answering that, and it turns into 373 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: like a discussion, or it turns into the professor acknowledging 374 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: that and talking about it and what you said about 375 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: higher order thinking, Um, I've really seen that happen in 376 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: the classroom here. That reminds me a lot of my 377 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 1: high school experience. I read a lot about how sometimes 378 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 1: girls in class feel pressure to not speak up, not 379 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: answer questions, perhaps because they don't want to look like 380 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 1: they're the smart girl whose domain domain in the class discussion. 381 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 1: Maybe they think it will make them look attractive if 382 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: they're not answering questions, and like boys don't want a 383 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: girl that's too smart or some sort of gender stereotype 384 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 1: like that. I never had to deal with any of 385 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,120 Speaker 1: that being in a single sex educational environment. I never 386 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: had to worry that someone was going to think something 387 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: about me because I was talkative in class or you know, 388 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: piped up in class discussion a lot. So I think 389 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 1: I took that with me to college. It was definitely 390 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: someone who liked to be involved in class discussions. Never 391 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 1: even gave a thought to how it made me look. 392 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: It just seemed like how I had been socialized to 393 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 1: be in a classroom. That's great. I think that's a 394 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: really valuable and rare opportunity, and that's part of what 395 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: makes having the safe space of having an all female 396 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 1: environment so powerful. So here's the thing, right, Research shows 397 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 1: that women's colleges succeed at nurturing and educating young women 398 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: in a way that outperforms co ed college campuses. But 399 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 1: Bridget is he the world is co educational. The world 400 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 1: is not all women. So I want to talk through 401 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: when we come back from this quick break, whether or 402 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 1: not we're doing women a disservice by not preparing them 403 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: for that. But first a word from our sponsors, and 404 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,919 Speaker 1: we're back and we're talking through the major benefits of 405 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: women's colleges, and they're increasing demand, even though the numbers 406 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: of women's colleges have decreased over the past half a century. 407 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: But one of the potential drawbacks that is written about 408 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: is well documented. UH is a concern among some parents 409 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: and prospective students is that attending a women's college might 410 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 1: not make those women graduates fully prepared to take on 411 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: the co ed world that we all live in. What 412 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 1: do you think about that? Bridget Well, If you listen 413 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 1: to our episode on HBCUs historically black colleges, that's the 414 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: same argument that people made around why they shouldn't go 415 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: to HBCUs because you know, the your campus is majority black. 416 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 1: When you get to the working world or whatever, it's 417 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,239 Speaker 1: not going to be that way. I don't think that 418 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 1: argument holds a lot of water because I think exactly 419 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: like you see in the research. Perhaps it's that women's 420 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 1: colleges and HBCUs set people up for success more readily 421 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: than their than their counterparts. Yeah. Here at Smith, I 422 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: think that we very much understand that the world is 423 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: not all women, unfortunately, like we aren't all amazons on 424 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 1: the island that Wonder Woman grew up on that I 425 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 1: would not be able to pronounce for the life of me. 426 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: But I think that here we foster and nurture the 427 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: sense of confidence and the sense of like empowerment and 428 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: really just the ability to get the work done and 429 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: the ability to know what you're talking about and know 430 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: what you are doing. That comes a lot from having 431 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: the opportunity that is provided out of women's college to 432 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: get the jobs and get the experience that a lot 433 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: of times in coed colleges would go more often to men. 434 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: Like here at Smith, you can do undergraduate research starting 435 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: your first year at Smith, but at coed college is 436 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: a lot of those research positions would probably be taken 437 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:55,919 Speaker 1: up by men. I don't know the statistics on that, 438 00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 1: but knowing the other statistics about the gender dynamics and STEM, 439 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,679 Speaker 1: I mean I feel pretty confident in saying that exactly. 440 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 1: Smith College actually offers this perfect tagline about navigating the 441 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 1: transition between a single sex college environment and the coed 442 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 1: world we live in. They say, of course the world 443 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: is co educational, but smith women enter it more confidently 444 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,959 Speaker 1: than women graduates of co ed schools. And I think 445 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 1: that's really, at the end of the day, what women's 446 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 1: colleges are all about are preparing women to do the 447 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: work and have the confidence to enter the arena and 448 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 1: not be shy about being seen as bossy or brash 449 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: or too smart god forbid. I also think it just 450 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: underscores the importance of really getting to know how men 451 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: operate in professional and educational settings. I think going into 452 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 1: the working world that is co educational, thinking it's going 453 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,239 Speaker 1: to be the same as it was when you were 454 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: in an all girl environment isn't probably the best way 455 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: to get yourself set up for success. One of the 456 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 1: stories I was released truck by was this woman who 457 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: graduated from Notre Dame of Maryland University who basically says 458 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 1: that in her workplace she can this sort of get 459 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: comfortable with how men can be. And we all know, 460 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: looking at statistics, men and women interact differently in professional settings, 461 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: and so she realized, oh, men are quicker than women 462 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 1: to ask for promotions. Men are more likely to use 463 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 1: the word I than we even talking about professional accomplishments, 464 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: and so just being aware of these sometimes very real 465 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,239 Speaker 1: differences helped her navigate that transition. So I don't want 466 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: to tell people that they're never going to encounter any 467 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: kind of downside for having gone to a single sex 468 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: education in the workplace. To be aware of it and 469 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: be thinking about it while you're navigating these these workplaces. Yeah, Also, 470 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 1: I think we run the risk of making it sound 471 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: like all women's colleges fits some feminist, utopian stereotype. And 472 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: I wonder if those are just stereotypes, right, Like the 473 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 1: reputation out there that a lot of incoming students into 474 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: women's colleges especially have to contend with, is, oh, you're 475 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: going to go to a college that's full of feminist 476 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: vegetarian in lesbians. That's no fun at all, that's super 477 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: serious and PC all the time, and it's basically a convent. 478 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: And I don't know, I mean, like came up in 479 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: the research that sort of stereotypical mythical reputation is he 480 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: you're there, like you can speak to this better than everyone. 481 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: What's your take on on what's true about those stereotypes 482 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: versus what's not true at all. Well, I just remember 483 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: the summer before I came here that I was taking 484 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: a driving instructor lesson, and um, I told the guy 485 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 1: who was my instructor that I was going to Smith 486 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 1: and he was like, oh, Smith, everybody's really catty up there, 487 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,199 Speaker 1: and all of their periods sync up, and it was 488 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: just it was really gross, and it was just like, 489 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: I mean, it's at that point was like, come on, really, 490 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 1: we're Smith. We're not a big party school. I don't 491 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: really know if any of the women's colleges are big 492 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: party schools. But we do have fun. We aren't always 493 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,360 Speaker 1: super serious. There are a lot of queer are women 494 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: on campus, but a lot of queer people on campus. 495 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: There are a lot of feminists. Not that any of 496 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: those things are bad things, right, No, of course not. Um, 497 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 1: it's just it's really funny because people are like, oh 498 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 1: my god, everybody here's a lesbian and it's like, yes, 499 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: you're here first, folks. We do actually have one dining 500 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: hall that is specifically vegan for people who don't eat meat. 501 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: Just rolled her eyes. I'm not rolling my eyes with 502 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: the concept of veganism. I'm rolling my eyes because I'm 503 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: thinking back to my college experience, where if you didn't 504 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: get food poisoning, you were lucky. That Smith has an 505 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: entire vegan option dining hall, you can still get food 506 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: poisoning as long as as long as it's an equal 507 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: opportunity food poisoning provider. I'm fine. Everything here is good. 508 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: Like it's less of Smith being a place where there 509 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: are tons of caddy PC people that are going to 510 00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: jump on you for making one small misstep, and more 511 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: of a place where it's just really open to people 512 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,719 Speaker 1: from all different walks of life and people from all 513 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: different kinds of experiences, who have different dietary needs, and 514 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: who are minorities in sexualities or in gender expressions. So 515 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: it's just a very open, very tolerant place to go 516 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: to school. I feel like this episode is revealing a 517 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: lot of my own personal ignorance around this subject, because 518 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: when you mentioned the stereotype that women's colleges, you can't 519 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: party there, They're no fun, They're full of sort of serious, 520 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: dowdy people. That was probably one of the reasons why 521 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: I didn't ever think about going to a women's college, 522 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: because after years and years of Catholic girls cool. I 523 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: was ready to party, like I was. I made a 524 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: conscious choice. I'm like, I am ready to party. I 525 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: went to a school that is often on one of 526 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: those Playboy Top Party School lists. I went to a 527 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: party school, no dat about it. And I always thought 528 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: that if I went to a place like Smith or 529 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: you know, a small liberal women's college, I wouldn't have 530 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: chance to drunkenly fall out of a window or something. 531 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: I felt like I was gonna be missing something that 532 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: was quintessential to what I thought was the college experience. 533 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: Knows thyself and bridget Todd knows herslf. I'm also that's 534 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: not a hypothetical, knowing I did drunkenly fall off a balcony. 535 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: I was sitting out a balcony and I was trying 536 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: to impress a guy, and somebody was going around throwing 537 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: beers at people, and I was like, hey, throw a 538 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: beer to me, and I just caught it and then 539 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: I fell right over. Oh my god. All right, Just 540 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: to go on the record here, drink responsibly sminty listeners. 541 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: And maybe that's one of the unspoken risks of being 542 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: around guys. It makes you want to show off by 543 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,479 Speaker 1: looking really cool, like bridget Todd does. Honestly, bridget you 544 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: are an icon. Hell yeah. I think something that it's 545 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: really convenient about Smith's party culture specifically is that we 546 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: are right down the road from you mass Amherst, or 547 00:30:55,360 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: as locals call it, Zoom mass Slamhurst. It's true though 548 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: a lot of women's colleges have this reputation of being 549 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: the convent where all these serious women go to study, 550 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: but almost all of them are right across the street 551 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: from a co ed schooling environment or have like a 552 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: brother college that they're associated with. So it's not that 553 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: you're never going to be around guys. It's just about 554 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: the classroom setting being a safe space for women to 555 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: really get the attention. And speaking of safe spaces, we've 556 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: been talking a little bit on the binary about gender. 557 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: Thus far, we've been talking about women's colleges versus dudes 558 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: that are hanging around that we're impressing by hanging out 559 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: a windows, sometimes a little drunken late. But when we 560 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: come back, I want to take a closer look at 561 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: those students who don't fall neatly on this false binary 562 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: of gender and explore how colleges, especially women's colleges are 563 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: opening their doors and including trans students in a mindful way. 564 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: We'll be right back for this word from our sponsors. 565 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: So we're back, and I want to explore what the 566 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 1: experience at women's colleges can be like for trans students 567 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: and students who don't fall on this false binary of gender. 568 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: So is about You've already mentioned that Smith and many 569 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: women's colleges have this culture of inclusion and acceptance for 570 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: diversity amongst all the women students who are there, all 571 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: the students who identify as women who go to women's colleges. 572 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: But what about this sort of post gender gender fluid 573 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: world that we're living in now. We have to consider 574 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: how women's colleges have adapted in terms of guidance on 575 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: transgender students and whether or not they're allowed at women's 576 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: colleges and protected from discrimination under Title nine. So, just 577 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: as a refresher, I know we talked a lot about 578 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: Title nine on our episode about campus sexual assault recently, 579 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,479 Speaker 1: but it was a ruling enacted by Congress in nineteen 580 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: seventy two to prohibit all discrimination on the basis of 581 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: sex in any educational institution that receives federal funding. But 582 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: when Congress was actually deliberating the legislation, elite schools like Harvard, Dartmouth, 583 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: and Smith of all places, lobbied for and one a 584 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: private school exemption for single sex undergraduate admissions. So basically, 585 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: as Title nine is written, private women's colleges can still 586 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: accept or reject anyone based on their gender. That's what 587 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: they were asking for in terms of their exemption, and 588 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: they got it. And that became really thorny when a 589 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: student in two thousand thirteen, Calliope Wong, applied to Smith 590 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: and was rejected along the basis of gender. Basically, Smith 591 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: sent Calliope a letter saying Smith is a women's college, 592 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: which means that undergraduate applicants to Smith must be female 593 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: at the time of admission. Your FAFSA indicates your gender 594 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: as male. Therefore Smith cannot process your application. And this 595 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: is such a thorny issue because first transgender student who 596 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: are trying to transition from one gender identity to the next, 597 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 1: getting that m to f on your FASTA form is 598 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 1: not as easily said as done. The rules for changing 599 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: gender on government issued documents very wildly from one agency 600 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: to the next and across state lines. In many parts 601 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: of our country. To get a change of gender on 602 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: your birth certificate, you need to get proof documentation that 603 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,879 Speaker 1: sex reassignment surgery has been performed. Surgery that, by the way, 604 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: most doctors will not perform on anyone under the age 605 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: of eighteen. Wow. So that really does complicate the issue 606 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: of trying to get into a woman's college and needing 607 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: to have this kind of designation. The vice president of 608 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: Enrollment for Smith College, Audrey Smith, explained this choice and 609 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,800 Speaker 1: an email. She says Smith was founded for a specific 610 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,839 Speaker 1: purpose to educate and create opportunity for women. We don't 611 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: define what constitutes a woman. We leave that to other 612 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: entities and agencies to affirm, but we do require that 613 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: it be affirmed at point of admission, which I think 614 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,760 Speaker 1: is kind of a cop out. It's it just seems 615 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 1: so reductive to me. It's obvious now that Smith had 616 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: more power all along to make their own rules about this. 617 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:12,959 Speaker 1: It seems strange to me that they would just sort 618 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 1: of pass the buck and say, hey, we don't define 619 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: anything when it comes to gender. We're leaving that to 620 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 1: up to other agencies, but we're just gonna say that 621 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 1: we won't let you in, right and that was what 622 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: a lot of the students on campus we're up in 623 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: arms about, which is why in twenty Smith came around 624 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: on their policy. They reshaped their entire policy after a 625 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: quote year of soul searching and decided that all incoming 626 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: students are applicants to the college have to do is 627 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 1: self identify, is to note on their application that they 628 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: identify as women. I just want to add, I think 629 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,399 Speaker 1: that's the way it should be. I think we should 630 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 1: be operating along the lines that individuals know their own 631 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: situations better than anyone else, and so if you identify 632 00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: as a woman, I'm could take your word for it, 633 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: because is who knows better than you. I don't think 634 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,959 Speaker 1: that we should be leaving it up to other agencies 635 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: to define that. We should let people have the space 636 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: to self define and then take them for their word 637 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: because they would know right. There was some hubbub from 638 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: the other side of that opinion, though, that students, let's say, 639 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: male identified students who were children of I don't know, 640 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,799 Speaker 1: administrators or professors at Smith would then try to go 641 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: to college basically at a discounted rate using moms discounted 642 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 1: access by just saying, yeah, I identify as female when 643 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 1: they're really totally existing as men. Was that something that 644 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: actually happened, now it was just a fear. I think 645 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: there was no evidence behind that fear. I always find 646 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: that a lot of times the alternate arguments for these 647 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,320 Speaker 1: things are these wild hypotheticals that are not actually happening. 648 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 1: So my thing is always like, if that happens, it's 649 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: something that should be dealt with. But if it's not happening, 650 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: why make the college application process so much harder for 651 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,839 Speaker 1: trans students along the lines of something that isn't even 652 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: happening because of a hypothical Yeah, I feel like, especially 653 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: if Smith, because our living situations are all like you 654 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: live in a house and you have a roommate your 655 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,399 Speaker 1: first year, and you are in this community where you're 656 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: basically spending time with students like all the time, like 657 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: in class home. It would be really hard to get 658 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,879 Speaker 1: away with that, And I don't understand why anybody would 659 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: really want to do that, you know, like it just 660 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: is not a real issue here. Yes, it sounds like 661 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: the plot of an eighties movie, right, like She's the 662 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,919 Speaker 1: Man or I'm always thinking of some like get hot, 663 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,280 Speaker 1: total different decade. They were talking about with Marilyn Monroe, 664 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 1: with those two guys who were basically in drag for 665 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,479 Speaker 1: the entirety of the movie for a financial gain, right, 666 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: like that, Just it's so far fetched. And that's to mention, 667 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,760 Speaker 1: Smith and other women's colleges have to design policies for 668 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: trans women who are applying to go to college, but 669 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: also women who apply to Smith or other women's colleges 670 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 1: get accepted and then decide to transition to a male 671 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: gender identity while in college. How has that come up 672 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: for you at Smith as well? Well, I know a 673 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: couple of people who are exactly as you described. They 674 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 1: came to Smith identifying as them and then realized over 675 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,359 Speaker 1: their time here that that wasn't really true to them 676 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: and that they do identify as Mail and UM. They 677 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: were met with some skepticism, of course, because it was 678 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,719 Speaker 1: kind of this thing of like, well, if you are that, like, 679 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: if you don't identify as a woman, then why would 680 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 1: you want to be at a women's college. But they 681 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,800 Speaker 1: have received support from the administration and from like people 682 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,719 Speaker 1: that they need in order to be able to transition 683 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 1: a Mail while at Smith and UM be comfortable and 684 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: be safe here, and like the whole idea that if 685 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,800 Speaker 1: you don't identify as a woman, that you don't belong 686 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 1: at a women's college is kind of ridiculous, especially after 687 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:45,799 Speaker 1: these are people who have sent like two or three 688 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: years here because they have built up a life here 689 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 1: and they've built up a community, and they are on 690 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 1: track to get their degrees and they're getting very good grades. 691 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 1: And now because of their transition, you're saying that they 692 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 1: should give all of this up and go somewhere else, 693 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,399 Speaker 1: which is just not necessary. It's not necessary, and it's 694 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: not fair. It's not fair to tell a student that. 695 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: And I think, particularly at a place that is meant 696 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 1: to be inclusive of all these different experiences, all these 697 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 1: different backgrounds, it's not fair to say, because you are 698 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: advocating for how you actually feel your gender is playing out, 699 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 1: because you're advocating for yourself in that way, you you 700 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 1: have to lose all these college credits, all this money, 701 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 1: all this time, all this community that you've built. I 702 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: don't think it should work that way, because, as we 703 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: know in seventeen, gender isn't that black and white exactly. 704 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: And I would be remiss to not mention the high 705 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: amount of people of Smith who don't identify as male 706 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,840 Speaker 1: or female, and they identify as like UM, non binary 707 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 1: or gender queer, and their identities are very much volued 708 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: and very much respected by the majority of people here, 709 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 1: and like in classes and in house meetings and UM 710 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 1: in lots of different like club meetings and everything, you're 711 00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 1: asked for your pronouns, and you go around and you 712 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: say your pronounces that, like you don't accidentally call somebody 713 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 1: she when they would rather um be referred to as 714 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 1: they or them or any other like pronoun totally. And 715 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting that women's colleges aren't the only 716 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: institutions who are adapting their policies on this. You mentioned 717 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 1: the Wing bridget at the top of the episode, which 718 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,920 Speaker 1: I thought was so on point, because the Wing, this 719 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:25,319 Speaker 1: women's only coworking space that's really taken off, has also 720 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 1: been questioned for their policies around trans women and how 721 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 1: they're advocating for and including folks who are gender non conforming. 722 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 1: In this New York Times article covering the evolution of 723 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 1: the Wings policies, the founder said they would likely check 724 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,399 Speaker 1: out the person's social media feeds as part of their 725 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 1: vetting process and look for other indications of the person 726 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: quote living as a woman. They've actually looked to women's 727 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: colleges for guidance on how to construct their policies. Barnard College, 728 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 1: which they cite in The New York Times, stipulates that 729 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,720 Speaker 1: it will quote consider for admission those applicants who consistently 730 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 1: live and identify as women, which sounds a little bit nuanced, right. 731 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 1: It requires this like track record of gender performance that 732 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,359 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's perfect or if it's could 733 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 1: be better. When I think of a policy like that, 734 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:21,000 Speaker 1: I think it sounds a little bit confusing, but it 735 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 1: actually seems kind of like common sense to me. That 736 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,440 Speaker 1: basically reaffirming this idea that someone is going to be 737 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,759 Speaker 1: lying about their gender just to like get into a 738 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 1: women's change room or get into a women's locker room, 739 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: or get into a women's own college, we know that's 740 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 1: not actually happening. Basically, what I think they're saying is 741 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,040 Speaker 1: that if that happens, they'll probably be able to tell, 742 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,799 Speaker 1: but they can. Generally, people are not lying about their 743 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 1: gender to grip somebody, And I think that's basically what 744 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,320 Speaker 1: they're saying, that you know, there are ways of seeing 745 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 1: if someone is authentically living the way they say they are, 746 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 1: and I think it's obvious. Does that make sense? Yes, 747 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:59,400 Speaker 1: I totally agree, And I think that that also opens 748 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 1: the door to through some potentially dangerous viewpoints of people 749 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,919 Speaker 1: who are general nonperforming or who are trans that come 750 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 1: to women's colleges. Like there is a very small and 751 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 1: unfortunately pretty vocal, well not like mainstream vocal, but like 752 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 1: kind of underground vocal group of these people that think 753 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,040 Speaker 1: that trans people shouldn't be a smith at all because 754 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:24,239 Speaker 1: they're just like basically they see the trans people as 755 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: men who are dressing up as women to come and 756 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:31,200 Speaker 1: like get off of some perverse like idea of being 757 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,120 Speaker 1: in a women's college. And it's really disgusting because that 758 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,520 Speaker 1: kind of idea that like you have to have proof 759 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 1: of your gender because otherwise men are just going to 760 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,920 Speaker 1: try to sneak into a women's college. It's it's just harmful, 761 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,680 Speaker 1: well is he? I think it actually reflects all larger 762 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,280 Speaker 1: and someone unfortunate debate happening in a lot of feminist 763 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,080 Speaker 1: circles right now, where you have what they call trans 764 00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:56,520 Speaker 1: exclusive radical feminists who pretty much say, if you like, 765 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,359 Speaker 1: you need to have been born this way in order 766 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,560 Speaker 1: to be accepted into this community and they draw a 767 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:04,920 Speaker 1: hard line. I just find that to be such a 768 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 1: disappointing stance, because I think movements like the feminist movement 769 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,520 Speaker 1: are better and stronger when there are more folks represented, 770 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,160 Speaker 1: not less. And I think this idea of you're in 771 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,440 Speaker 1: because you had this kind of experience and you're out 772 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,440 Speaker 1: because we had that kind of experience is so wrong. 773 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,279 Speaker 1: And that's something that I had to learn myself, is 774 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: that just because a trans woman had a different kind 775 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,680 Speaker 1: of experience upbringing than I did doesn't mean that a 776 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,680 Speaker 1: trans woman is not a woman, doesn't mean that our 777 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 1: experience is Just because they're different doesn't mean that one 778 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,879 Speaker 1: is more valid than the other. Again, our differences don't 779 00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 1: have to threaten our unity exactly exactly, and that, honestly, 780 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,520 Speaker 1: we could do an entire podcast on feminists and trans 781 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:48,080 Speaker 1: movements and trans inclusion, which we totally should. But what 782 00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:52,279 Speaker 1: you're reminding me of is one other facet of diversity 783 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,320 Speaker 1: on women's college campuses that I really think it's important 784 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,800 Speaker 1: we explore, which is that intersection of race as it 785 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,719 Speaker 1: eats women's colleges. We know that there are historically black 786 00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 1: colleges and universities like Spellmen that are also women's colleges. 787 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,640 Speaker 1: So talk about Spellman women really living at that intersection 788 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 1: of being in a women's environment that's also a POC environment, right, 789 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 1: and that that must be like the most intersectional moment 790 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:26,200 Speaker 1: of life for those students. But unfortunately, intersectional feminism wasn't 791 00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:30,120 Speaker 1: historically in vogue at the start of many of these colleges. 792 00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 1: For instance, bryn Mar College recently announced that it would 793 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 1: be scaling back its association with Ms. Carrie Thomas, a 794 00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:42,160 Speaker 1: founder of the college who happened to be racist as hell, 795 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:47,520 Speaker 1: who was a total vocal anti Semite and completely discriminated 796 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,360 Speaker 1: against people of color, despite the fact that she was 797 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:54,359 Speaker 1: a suffragette. She presided over the college from eighteen nine 798 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:59,759 Speaker 1: four to ninety two, right around the suffragist victory on 799 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,560 Speaker 1: women winning the right to vote, but historical accounts revealed 800 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,960 Speaker 1: that she almost exclusively championed the rights of white women, 801 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:11,880 Speaker 1: as did many suffragettes, unfortunately, and discriminated against Jewish and 802 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,320 Speaker 1: African American applicants to bren Mar. Again, none of the 803 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,880 Speaker 1: surprises me at all, because it really does reflect a 804 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,400 Speaker 1: lot of the other conversations happening in feminist circles in 805 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,279 Speaker 1: terms of intersectionality and inclusion. Um. Yeah, so there's kind 806 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:29,400 Speaker 1: of a similar history with Smith. Like our Foundersia Smith 807 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:34,680 Speaker 1: founded the institution for white upper class Protestant women, so 808 00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:39,880 Speaker 1: it was very much exclusionary for many groups. But now 809 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,840 Speaker 1: we have lots of different programs that are made specifically 810 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,960 Speaker 1: for supporting our POC and our students of color. We 811 00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 1: have the Bridge program, which happens for incoming first year students. 812 00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,200 Speaker 1: They get to campus a couple of days before the 813 00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,560 Speaker 1: rest of the incoming first year class, and it's specifically 814 00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:02,319 Speaker 1: for navigating a predominantly white and historically white institution and 815 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:07,480 Speaker 1: getting that community of POC together and basically telling them like, 816 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,839 Speaker 1: this is going to be a huge culture shock because 817 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:11,640 Speaker 1: it's full of white women who are just going to 818 00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:17,160 Speaker 1: like have no idea unfortunately, like how to relate to you, 819 00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,840 Speaker 1: and no idea how to talk to you, because lots 820 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:25,520 Speaker 1: of women who are at this college are white folks 821 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:30,520 Speaker 1: who are from other predominantly white communities. So navigating this 822 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,440 Speaker 1: space as a person of color can be super, super difficult, 823 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,479 Speaker 1: and it takes a lot of support, and from what 824 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,640 Speaker 1: my POC friends tell me, it can be exhausting, Well 825 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,560 Speaker 1: is it. You really underscore the importance of building those 826 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,839 Speaker 1: communities on campus. And so, as someone who did go 827 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,520 Speaker 1: to a predominantly white college, it was really important to 828 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,839 Speaker 1: me to have spaces where I could connect with other 829 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,439 Speaker 1: students of color, and not even in a way that's, 830 00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,120 Speaker 1: you know, what you think of as like safe spaces, 831 00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,040 Speaker 1: just knowing that I wasn't alone, Knowing that I could 832 00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:02,920 Speaker 1: you know, kick it with someone who understood what I 833 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,400 Speaker 1: was going through, and all of that was critically important 834 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:06,880 Speaker 1: for my time in college. And so I'm happy to 835 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,040 Speaker 1: see that Smith is investing in those same community building 836 00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,920 Speaker 1: strategies because they are really important. When you go to college, 837 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:14,560 Speaker 1: you need to know that there are other people there 838 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,279 Speaker 1: that get you, that are like you. Even small things 839 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:18,840 Speaker 1: of like if you're a black girl, where do you 840 00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:20,360 Speaker 1: get your hair done? Where do you buy your makeup? 841 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,799 Speaker 1: If you're in a really small, all white town, things 842 00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:24,840 Speaker 1: like that, those are real. Those are real, and it 843 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,279 Speaker 1: really does make a difference in terms of how you 844 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,640 Speaker 1: feel in your college, whether you feel like an insider 845 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,719 Speaker 1: or an outsider, whether you feel included or not. It's 846 00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:34,920 Speaker 1: so funny you would mention that because one of the 847 00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:36,560 Speaker 1: things that stood out to me the most about that 848 00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,080 Speaker 1: article in the New York Times about the Wing is 849 00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,600 Speaker 1: that they include makeup products and hair products in their 850 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:47,000 Speaker 1: bathrooms throughout their entire coworking spaces city to city, and 851 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,920 Speaker 1: women of color were interviewed saying, I was really impressed 852 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,480 Speaker 1: when I went to the bathroom and saw that they 853 00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:56,920 Speaker 1: had hair products. There were not specifically and only for 854 00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,520 Speaker 1: white women. Uh shout out to the Wing. If you 855 00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,000 Speaker 1: guys get a hair braider in the on staff, I'll 856 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,160 Speaker 1: be there tomorrow. Yeah, exactly. So I'm optimistic for spaces 857 00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,840 Speaker 1: that have been created for women, women's colleges or women's 858 00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:14,400 Speaker 1: coworking spaces who are evolving when it comes to racial inclusion, 859 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,400 Speaker 1: trans inclusion, folks who are non gender conforming, and making 860 00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:22,400 Speaker 1: sure that those diverse populations of all kinds of women 861 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:26,840 Speaker 1: feel included, seeing respected and heard, and are given that 862 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:32,239 Speaker 1: equal opportunity to have safe access to their education. I mean, 863 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,760 Speaker 1: there are lots of experiences that people come to Smith 864 00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,120 Speaker 1: with and lots of different backgrounds. So we have the 865 00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,759 Speaker 1: Black Students Alliance, and we have the Bridge Program, which 866 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:42,560 Speaker 1: I know people who have gone through the Bridge program 867 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:44,840 Speaker 1: and they said that it was extremely meaningful and that 868 00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,240 Speaker 1: without it they probably would not have gotten through SNIPE. 869 00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,920 Speaker 1: I think that being at a women's college like this 870 00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:55,120 Speaker 1: that really works every day on bettering itself as an 871 00:48:55,160 --> 00:49:01,040 Speaker 1: institution and has a student body that pushes itself and 872 00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,160 Speaker 1: the institution to better itself along all of these different 873 00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:09,000 Speaker 1: fronts of diversity and inclusion. Um, it's a really powerful experience. 874 00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,799 Speaker 1: And I learned something new from my peers every single day, 875 00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:16,040 Speaker 1: And I learned something new from my professor's every single day, 876 00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,080 Speaker 1: not only like lessons that they're teaching in class about 877 00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,080 Speaker 1: the subject, but also how they teach it and how 878 00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,000 Speaker 1: they interact with us, and how they are also in 879 00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:30,520 Speaker 1: themselves working to better the diversity and better the institution 880 00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,719 Speaker 1: as a whole. And UM, I'm very just grateful for 881 00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,439 Speaker 1: this experience. I don't think I could get it anywhere else. 882 00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,880 Speaker 1: And we're grateful for having you on the pod. Is 883 00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,000 Speaker 1: do you think so much for for being a friend 884 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,200 Speaker 1: of the pod, for being a resident little cyst of 885 00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,800 Speaker 1: the pod? Yeah, I don't think I have a choice 886 00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,800 Speaker 1: to be a friend of the pot of your family 887 00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,239 Speaker 1: of the pod. Okay, smint fans, if you want to 888 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:54,239 Speaker 1: hear from you Are you like me who is a 889 00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,759 Speaker 1: lifelong and vocal advocate of single sex education, or are 890 00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,040 Speaker 1: you kind of coming around on the issue, thinking a 891 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,319 Speaker 1: bad at mulling over. Either way, we want to hear 892 00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,680 Speaker 1: from you. Did you go to a women's college? Why 893 00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:07,080 Speaker 1: or why not? For women's colleges on your radar when 894 00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:08,640 Speaker 1: you're making a list of where you might go to 895 00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,080 Speaker 1: college if you win and all. Honestly, I just want 896 00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:14,000 Speaker 1: to know how women's colleges and single sex education has 897 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:15,920 Speaker 1: played out in your life or shown up or not 898 00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,480 Speaker 1: shown up. Please get in touch with us. You can 899 00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:20,560 Speaker 1: find us on Instagram and stuff I'm Ever Told you 900 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,440 Speaker 1: on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, and as always, you 901 00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,800 Speaker 1: love getting your emails at mom stuff at how stuff 902 00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:37,200 Speaker 1: works dot com