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Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with

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Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm

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Speaker 1: Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety. Today, my

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Speaker 1: guest is doctor Jeffrey P. Jones. He's the executive director

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Speaker 1: of the Peabody Awards and a professor in the Communications

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Speaker 1: School at the University of Georgia, which has administered the

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Speaker 1: Peabodies since nineteen forty. Jones and I discuss what makes

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Speaker 1: the Peabodies unique in an area where there are no

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Speaker 1: shortage of awards for entertainment and media. The twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: five Peabody winners will be formally presented at a ceremony

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Speaker 1: in Beverly Hills on June First. We also talk about

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Speaker 1: the challenges of categorizing content in this era. Given that

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Speaker 1: Jones is a media scholar who has written numerous books

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Speaker 1: about how TV, news and comedy influenced culture, I had

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Speaker 1: to ask him how he thinks the US news media

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Speaker 1: is handling Trump two point zero. That conversation is coming

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Speaker 1: right up after this break, and we're back with the

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Speaker 1: conversation with Peabody Awards Executive director Jeffrey P. Jones, Doctor

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Jones, thanks so much for coming to my office today.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Cynthia.

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Speaker 3: We've been talking about doing this for a while as

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Speaker 3: the Grady College has been stepping up the profile of

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Speaker 3: the Peabody Awards, and you're getting ready for your event

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Speaker 3: here in Los Angeles on June first. What is unique

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Speaker 3: about what it means to win a Peabody Award.

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Speaker 2: We're the oldest award for broadcasting. It began before television,

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Speaker 2: so nineteen forty and I mentioned that lineage in that

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Speaker 2: as technology has changed, we've continued to award cable and

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Speaker 2: then pay per view which it used to be called,

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Speaker 2: but in streamers and so and in more recent years

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Speaker 2: immersive and interactive media. So really what makes Peabody unique

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Speaker 2: or are that kind of platform agnostic dimension also can't

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Speaker 2: campaign for it. There is no twenty three thousand members voting. Instead,

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Speaker 2: it's a jury of eighteen people that meet face to

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Speaker 2: face and decide the award unanimously. So that's the process

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Speaker 2: that makes it unique. But really what makes it unique

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Speaker 2: is that it is about the story itself and what

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Speaker 2: we see in this moment of just a plethora a cacophony,

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Speaker 2: choose the right word for the type of media is podcasting, documentaries,

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Speaker 2: you know, data journalism, animation, video games, VR. Stories can

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Speaker 2: be told in just so many different ways scripted, television, Hollywood,

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Speaker 2: you know, foregrounds, but there are many many ways to

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Speaker 2: tell stories.

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Speaker 3: And you didn't even TikTok in stue.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely social media. We award those. Now.

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Speaker 3: It's really, I'm going to imagine, quite a challenge.

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Speaker 2: It is, but it's also a privilege in that it's

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Speaker 2: wonderful to sit around in a room of eighteen people

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Speaker 2: who dedicated their life to media. We get twelve hundred

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Speaker 2: submissions and they go through screening committees. But there are stories, platforms,

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Speaker 2: production companies, artists we've never heard of, and they come

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Speaker 2: through and you'll just listen to jurors go, I'm just

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Speaker 2: blown away by this. I'm blown away by the story.

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Speaker 2: So that's number one. Number two for us. We get

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Speaker 2: to talk about rural health care, we get to talk

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Speaker 2: about trans rights or disability rights. The perennial issues are

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Speaker 2: always sexual violence and racial injustice. Is more recently far

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Speaker 2: right and authoritarian regimes. And so because we're looking at documentary,

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Speaker 2: because we're looking at news, and entertainment and then these

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Speaker 2: different platforms. It's really artists telling stories and journalists and documentaries.

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Speaker 2: But I call them artists telling stories in as powerful

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Speaker 2: ways as they can. As a professor at the University

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Speaker 2: of Georgia, I would say, the great privilege is this

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Speaker 2: are the types of media that we as citizens need

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Speaker 2: to be engaging with, and you know, it's it's amazing

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Speaker 2: to be able to do that.

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Speaker 3: There is no question that in the Emmy race or

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Speaker 3: in other awards racism a level of you know, there's

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Speaker 3: a level of how big is the network, how big

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Speaker 3: is the audience there are and we all know there's

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Speaker 3: been shows that had very small audiences on streamers and

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Speaker 3: even small audiences on HBO that racked up tons of Emmys.

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Speaker 3: But there's something about the Peabodies that it is it's

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Speaker 3: still even even with those that are that have sort

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Speaker 3: of niche followings, they're still from generally the larger studios,

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Speaker 3: whereas as you say, like you get submissions from all

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Speaker 3: over the place and the storytelling prowess, you know that,

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Speaker 3: and it is it feels like because the Peabodies are

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Speaker 3: known for recognizing such a range of content, some of

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Speaker 3: it produced on a local level, some you know, some

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Speaker 3: produced on the national level. It has that reputation so

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Speaker 3: that I'm guessing you know that it comes in and

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Speaker 3: there's a level playing field. Just tell me how good

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Speaker 3: and how compelling story is, and that's I mean, that's

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Speaker 3: got to really be exciting in terms of talent discovery

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Speaker 3: and just like literally what everybody says, but literally finding

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Speaker 3: new voices.

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Speaker 2: A couple of good examples of what you're describing this

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Speaker 2: year would be Weird Lady Parts, but also Mister Bates

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Speaker 2: versus The.

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Speaker 3: Post Office, which is just show. I had not even

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Speaker 3: heard of it. It's a PBS, I believe. Let me

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Speaker 3: ask you, just in truly practical terms, how do you

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Speaker 3: define what's a television series versus what's short form content?

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Speaker 3: Are there any eligibility kind of framework for the peabodies

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Speaker 3: that have been challenged by the proliferation of formats and

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Speaker 3: content and frequencies.

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Speaker 2: Not for some of what you're saying, but the biggest

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Speaker 2: eligibility challenge for us has been films. So it's and

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Speaker 2: it says a lot about the history of television and film.

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Speaker 2: So documentary has always been a film, but its primary

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Speaker 2: exhibition platform for years was television, So documentary has been

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Speaker 2: always recognized and it's obviously reportage and connections to news,

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Speaker 2: so it's always been a part of Peabody. But as

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Speaker 2: the streamers have come along and are now producing what

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Speaker 2: they call feature films, you know, is that television or

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Speaker 2: is that cinema? And that has been a bit of

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Speaker 2: a challenge for us. We don't recognize feature films yet,

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Speaker 2: you know, ABC Movie of the Week in the nineteen seventies, right,

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Speaker 2: or HBO has made in essence movies that Peabody has recognized,

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Speaker 2: Temple Grand in Game Change that have won Peabody Awards.

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Speaker 2: They're made for TV movies in essence, but on HBO.

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Speaker 2: So it's been it's been difficult as Netflix and others

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Speaker 2: have moved so strongly into competing for Film Academy Awards

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Speaker 2: and are producing what sometimes have cinema runs and sometimes

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Speaker 2: very limited cinema runs. What constitutes you know, television in

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Speaker 2: this day and age and what is a film? And

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Speaker 2: the only thing that we can say is that they're

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Speaker 2: calling them a film, they're treating them like films, and

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Speaker 2: obviously the formats but as you say, it can be

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Speaker 2: short run and different. So that's been the one challenge

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Speaker 2: for us is just, uh, we already do film and documentary,

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Speaker 2: but we don't do feature films, and streamers have complicated that.

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Speaker 3: I bet the list of entertainment honorees includes it was

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Speaker 3: a good year for EPEX. It includes things like Showgun

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Speaker 3: and Baby Reindeer collected a whole lot of Emmys this

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Speaker 3: past Paul, do you think jurors do they weigh at

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Speaker 3: all when they're coming to consider peabodies, Like, do they

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Speaker 3: weigh shows that have gotten so much recognition elsewhere?

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Speaker 2: It's not really its own measure. I mean, I think

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Speaker 2: we're always aware of the ted Lasso's that have great

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Speaker 2: popular appeal and show but Showgun wins its award because

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Speaker 2: of its art and in particular because it's an artistic

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Speaker 2: statement that stands in such contrast to its predecessor from

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Speaker 2: many years ago. And so when it's done so beautifully

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Speaker 2: like that, with all due respect to Richard, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: with all due respect indeed, so it's commercial appeal or

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Speaker 2: better yet it's even as industry success might be mentioned

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Speaker 2: in the room, but it's not really a weighing factor.

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Speaker 2: I think it's usually the power of the narrative itself.

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Speaker 2: So Showgun. I mean, look, there's plenty of things that

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Speaker 2: win a lot of Emmys that we don't give, but

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Speaker 2: there are you know, Secession wins a Peabody. Last of

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Speaker 2: Us wins a Peabody to bear the great Television. They're

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Speaker 2: winning Emmys for a reason beyond just campaigns for them.

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Speaker 2: You know, do you have.

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Speaker 3: A set number of slots in each category?

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Speaker 2: No, we do not. We do not. Yeah. So it's

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Speaker 2: one of the great things about Peabody is I think

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Speaker 2: there's only seven entertainment this year. Last year there were ten.

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Speaker 2: It's based upon what is at there. So these are

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Speaker 2: face to face deliberations through nanimous vokal, like I said,

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Speaker 2: so we whittle it down. But often I think, especially

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Speaker 2: with our inner tainment, is you know what, what's the

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Speaker 2: message at the center of it? Uh? Uh that that

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Speaker 2: that matters a bit. And you know, we don't stick

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Speaker 2: too hard to that. We do popcorn stuff too, But

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Speaker 2: but there is a degree of what's what's the showrunner

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Speaker 2: in particular trying to communicate and how well and how

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Speaker 2: does it match with the times? And uh and so

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Speaker 2: sometimes a show like Secession, for instance, is obviously extremely

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Speaker 2: current and and and playful and fun and great writing

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Speaker 2: and great acting and all that.

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Speaker 3: And like politics, all television is local.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more

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Speaker 1: from my conversation with Jeffrey P. Jones. And we're back

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Speaker 1: with more from Peabody Awards Executive director Jeffrey P. Jones.

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Speaker 3: I always look for the locals, the local TV onorees

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Speaker 3: because so many of them are the investigative reports, and

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Speaker 3: it will really restore your faith in local TV that

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Speaker 3: people are out there turning over rocks, doing the hard

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Speaker 3: work and doing real investigative work. And it's not just

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Speaker 3: stations in New York and LA quite in quite the contrast,

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Speaker 3: I think some of our the largest stations on the coasts,

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Speaker 3: could you know, stand to put a little more emphasis

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Speaker 3: and into investigative because every year I've noted stations in Dallas.

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Speaker 3: Clearly there's a culture in that market of doing good

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Speaker 3: investigative stuff. And now the great thing is nowadays is

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Speaker 3: you can go and look. You can find these segments online.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you pointed out Dallas. There's an array of

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Speaker 2: stations King Fox Television in Seattle, San Francisco, Dallas, Indianapolis,

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Speaker 2: Atlanta that can that consistently put money into investigative reporting,

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Speaker 2: and we just you know, you won't find a bigger

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Speaker 2: critic of bad television news than me, But I'll tell

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Speaker 2: you Peabody has also showed me that these folks do

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Speaker 2: amazing work and it's exactly what local television should be

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Speaker 2: doing and does well, and it really does revive your faith.

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Speaker 2: And if all politics are local, this is where rubber

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Speaker 2: meets the road. They get results, they get, you know,

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Speaker 2: laws changed, they get in essence, people fired who've engaged

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Speaker 2: in corruption and other nefarious acts. And so it's a

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Speaker 2: it's a really it really does restore your belief in

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Speaker 2: what great journalism can do at that local level. And

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Speaker 2: I agree with you. I think the coach could do better.

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Speaker 2: These stations have put resources into it, and we're always

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Speaker 2: blown away. Phil Williams won three out of a Nashville station.

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Speaker 2: He's an amazing reporter at the local level. He won

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Speaker 2: last year, he's winning in this year. Remember he's in

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Speaker 2: a red state doing really tough issues about neo Nazis

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Speaker 2: and the far right. And you know, kudos to doing

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Speaker 2: that in an area that's probably tough to report in.

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Speaker 3: Every survey still shows that the majority of Americans, probably

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Speaker 3: not the majority of younger Americans, but the majority of

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Speaker 3: Americans get their news from local TV news. In fairness

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Speaker 3: to my locals, I do want to say that our

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Speaker 3: local stations really rose to the occasion in the LA fires,

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Speaker 3: the coverage of excellence, and that's where and it would

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Speaker 3: just be so nice during the rest of the year

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Speaker 3: to see, you know, a level of like that level

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Speaker 3: of seriousness.

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Speaker 2: We will see those next year.

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Speaker 3: And it'll be interesting to see in the coming years

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Speaker 3: the kind of local investigative and the ripple effects from

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Speaker 3: the utterly unprecedented stuff going on in Washington. How that

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Speaker 3: how that ripples down into the grassroots. I suspect will

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Speaker 3: be reflected in future Peabody. Yes, yes, finalists and winners.

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Speaker 3: Let me ask you, is it true. I remember reading

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Speaker 3: or hearing from somebody that you not only have a

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Speaker 3: course an archive of every winner, but you have an

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Speaker 3: archive of every submission.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's We are the third largest archive of audio

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Speaker 2: visual materials, only behind Library of Congress and UCLA.

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Speaker 3: It has to be hundreds of thousands.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, only five percent of it's been digitized. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: an extraordinary repository. In fact, we did I'm a professor

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Speaker 2: and we did a book called I Forget exactly, but

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Speaker 2: it's about the Peabody archiving cultural memory through the University

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Speaker 2: of Georgia Press, and it's it was literally I think

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Speaker 2: of the titles that we reviewed, only one had won

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Speaker 2: a Peabody. It's our cultural memory is shaped by television

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Speaker 2: and what we know and understand of it. And there

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Speaker 2: is just amazing television from the sixties and seventies at

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Speaker 2: the local level when there used to be a real

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Speaker 2: FCC licensure requirement. Local stations produced amazing news and documentary

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Speaker 2: and even scripted. There's an Ozzie and Davis and Ruby

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Speaker 2: doing a performance in Dallas. It's just amazing stuff. And

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Speaker 2: Peabody has this archive and it is you can look

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Speaker 2: it up online through our library catalog and request that

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Speaker 2: they digitize it, which they will do and you can

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Speaker 2: and then they'll give you a link and you can.

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Speaker 3: See just scholars access.

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Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, but even documentaries like what was it called

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Speaker 2: Mister Soul? You know that one of Peabody We had

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Speaker 2: some tapes that were very hard to find. A Questlove

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Speaker 2: Summer of Soul got some documentary material from there, so

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Speaker 2: you will find uh, it is this true archive. But

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Speaker 2: but to your point instead, you know, only so we

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Speaker 2: get twelve hundred subisions a year, there's only thirty winners.

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Speaker 2: The great value of this is that broadcasters have sent

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Speaker 2: us what they consider their best work since.

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Speaker 3: Nineteen forty, the cream of the crop.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing. It's an amazing repository.

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Speaker 3: That's a good segue into let's I wanted to ask

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Speaker 3: you a question using the professor side. Sure of your

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Speaker 3: job here you are the lamb and cape professor in

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Speaker 3: the entertainment and Media studies that those at UGA, which

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Speaker 3: is very well known for its communications, and it's an

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Speaker 3: entertainment department as well as RIM. I can't let that

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Speaker 3: go as a charter charter Rim, But you've written a

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Speaker 3: couple of books about political news and satire and how

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Speaker 3: comedy and you know, the things you were just talking about,

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Speaker 3: how television shapes our perceptions of our lives. How do

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Speaker 3: you think in this moment, and not to get too political,

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Speaker 3: but just in this moment of I think what we

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Speaker 3: can all agree is fairly chaotic in Washington, and this

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Speaker 3: effort to reshape the federal government and therefore other aspects

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Speaker 3: of our lives how do you think television is rising

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Speaker 3: to this moment? What stands out to you is the

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Speaker 3: differences between media cove Bridge and the public reaction to

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Speaker 3: Trump two point zero versus the first time around.

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Speaker 2: I think there's a collective shock at the pace of it,

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Speaker 2: and every outlet that I whether we're talking social media

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Speaker 2: or print publications that you know are manifesting the digital era,

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Speaker 2: or traditional cable news or everyone is just trying to

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Speaker 2: keep up that the pace of the pace of and

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Speaker 2: you call it what it is, it is radical change

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Speaker 2: is vastly different than the political norms and cultures that

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Speaker 2: we've experienced in the past. As as that happens daily,

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Speaker 2: everyone that are reporters, such as yourself, are trying to

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Speaker 2: keep up just what can how can I report truth?

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Speaker 2: And of course, you know, for those of us who

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Speaker 2: do journalism, it's journalism is not just a story. It's

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Speaker 2: often a continuing story that has to be gone over

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Speaker 2: and over and over again and dug and resourced. And

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Speaker 2: just when you have so much change happening so quickly,

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Speaker 2: it is truly an avalanche. So to me, I feel

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Speaker 2: deeply empathetic toward anyone trying to be honest to their

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Speaker 2: readers and viewers and listeners, and with that pace of

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Speaker 2: change and just everyone feeling overwhelmed by it all, it's

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Speaker 2: a difficult task if you're a media producer. I do think, folks,

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Speaker 2: it's going to be interested to see what happens in

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Speaker 2: scripted because the type of politics that we're in have

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Speaker 2: made the owners of the means of production skittish about

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Speaker 2: the political realities they all face. In a regulatory world

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Speaker 2: and in a legalistic seem to be changing, changing and

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Speaker 2: getting sued and this type of thing. So the owners

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Speaker 2: versus the artists who may want to engage in this

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Speaker 2: or not. But you know, as somebody who deeply believes

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Speaker 2: that entertainment can often tell truths in ways that news

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Speaker 2: may not be able to capture, especially about the human

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Speaker 2: cost and the desire for empathy from viewers. To see

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Speaker 2: what things happen. As we have stories of extra judicial

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Speaker 2: legal forces taking citizens and shipping off to Gulag's, I'm

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Speaker 2: interested to see what our artists want to do with

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Speaker 2: that and whether they're going to be allowed to tell

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Speaker 2: those stories. It is a really interesting time to be alive,

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Speaker 2: and someone in the position that peabodies is in watching

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Speaker 2: that and trying to again shine spotlights on stories that

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Speaker 2: do it really well. It's to be an interesting few

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Speaker 2: years for sure.

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Speaker 3: That views for sure. Jeffrey, thank you so much. I've

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Speaker 3: really enjoyed the conversation.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. It's been big fun.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review

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