WEBVTT - What's the deal with MSG? 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:03.440 Hello, Stuff you should know, come and see us in 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:07.800 Orlando or New Orleans, because that's your last chance. Yeah, Orlando, 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:10.399 We're going to be at the Plaza Live October nine. 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:13.200 New Orleans We're going to be at the Civic Theater October. 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:16.840 Just go to s Y s K live dot com 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:19.600 and you will find info and links to buy tickets 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:21.919 and then you can come see us because they won't 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:24.280 let you in the door without them. I'm sorry, that's right. 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:27.080 And if you want to come see me, I will 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:30.640 be in Chicago at Lincoln Hall on September twelve, and 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:33.240 I will be in Austin, Texas at the North Door 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:36.720 on October two. Uh. Ticket links are weirdly hard to find, 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:39.520 so just look up End of the World, Josh Clark, 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:42.800 Austin or Chicago and you will find what you're looking for. 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.680 See you guys soon. Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:55.680 a production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:59.080 and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:06.280 Chuck Bryant. There's first time guest producer Dave Dave. Yeah, 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:09.440 he picked it up already that he already knows not 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:12.840 to say anything in response I love that for a 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:15.760 guest producer, don't you so. Dave's story Dave worked with 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:19.760 this many many years ago and went away. I don't 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.000 even know what Dave did in the meantime. He went 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:25.640 to Alaska. I think he wandered the desert. The heered. 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:28.319 He wandered back in one day and said, hey, I 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:33.080 hear you guys invented podcasting, right, Can I get a job? Yeah? 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:34.800 And here he is now. Yeah, it's good to have 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:38.480 him back. You may have noticed a distinct uptick in 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:41.800 the quality of our short stuffs. That's because Dave took 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:44.880 over editing those things. Yeah, Jerry was like, this isn't 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:49.960 even worth my time. Snooze yawn. Yeah, Jerry's been handing 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:54.760 off duties huh left dude, right, like she's dealing handed cards. 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:59.040 You know. The final straw one day is she's gonna 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:01.480 just look at us both. This is how she's gonna 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:05.600 quit and do the move when the dealer leaves the table. Yeah, 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:08.600 the little hand move. Yep, I'm out, I'm out. I 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:11.200 hate you both so much. That's how she's gonna break 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:14.720 it to us. And then a new person with a 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.560 cumber bun on we'll just wander in and an arm garter, 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:22.920 because we get a casinos in the nineteenth century, right, 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:26.639 a portly fellow with the mustache hair waxed. That would 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:29.280 be great, It would be great. Can't you see Jerry 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:32.320 dreaming about doing that, just kind of twitching in her 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:34.160 sleep with a big smile on her face. You and 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:36.040 I dream about stuff you should have going on forever, 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:40.760 and she dreams about it's ultimate to minds. Right, So Chuck, 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:47.400 let me ask you. Have you ever had nacho cheese dorito's? Uh? 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:51.720 Is that the original dorito? I don't know. I think 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:54.720 it's possible taco flavors the original. But for you and me, 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:58.400 as children of the seventies eighties, I would say nacho 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.799 cheese is the first one. We probably right? The red bag? Sure, 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:05.320 I'm a cool ranch guy. I like it too. Actually, 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.960 I like al doritos. I don't really discriminate. So you 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:14.720 have had nacho chritos? Yes? Have you ever had soy sauce? Oh? 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.000 I'm a big soy guy. I do not follow the 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:22.160 sushi uh what they say? How to eat sushi? Drown it? 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.200 Do you? I? I still use soy sauce, even though 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:28.840 every time I there's a weird little voice in my 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:31.600 head that's like, can I'm supposed to do? That? Is 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:33.760 probably you me sitting next to you. I say, no, 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.240 it's really not, because she uses a little bit too. 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:38.280 But I don't know it is. It's not male, it's 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:40.600 not female. It's just some weird disembodied voice. And I 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:43.839 say to heck with you voice, I'm doing it anyway. Um, 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.920 what about Maggie sauce? Have you ever had that? Oh? 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:49.400 I don't think so. Oh, I'll bet you have somewhere. 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:52.280 It's a kind of like a tall, slender brown bottle 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:55.920 with a yellow label, Maggie m A G G. I 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:58.240 I think I can picture it. Okay, I'll bet you've 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:00.640 had anyway, if you've had all three? Those? Are any 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:04.920 one of those? What about vegemite? Oh god, no, okay, 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:08.120 I've had vegemite. I'm not crazy for it, but we're 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:10.080 not here to yuck anyone's am right? Well, I got, 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:11.839 I got. I'm gonna throw one in because I see 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.240 what you're doing now, Okay, can I throw it in there? 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:20.080 Have you ever used accent? That is a c H 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:24.039 A little excent. Agu I believe ce nt that's spice. 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:27.440 I don't. I don't know if I have. I know 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:30.200 exactly what it is because I'm just so familiar with 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:32.240 grocery stores, but I don't know if I've ever had 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:34.839 which is so familiar with grocery store that's so familiar. 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:36.880 It's one of your talents. I've got another one for you. 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:39.600 You know, Japanese mayonnaise, the QP eat all mayonnaise. I 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:41.560 have had that. Okay, we could do this all day. 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:46.080 What about oysters? You ever had oysters? I love oysters. Okay, well, chuck, listen, 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:51.599 you have had MSG monosodium glutamate if you've eaten anyone 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:56.719 or all of those things, that's right. I love monosodium glutamate, 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:00.600 also known as MSG. And the world does two. The 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:04.920 world just doesn't know it because MSG, those three little words, 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:10.520 those three little letters, have such a bad reputation, especially 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:16.360 in the West, especially in America, that man food manufacturers 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:20.920 have come to basically bend over backwards to create new 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:25.560 processes for creating MSG so that they can insert them 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.680 into foods without having to say that there's MSG in 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:32.200 the food, even though there's very much MSG in the food. 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:36.039 But they know that a lot of Americans won't eat 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:38.800 that food if they see that there's MSG in there. 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:41.760 That's right, And we will get to this in more detail, 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:44.040 But it was such a bad thing at one point, 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:48.320 especially in the seventies and eighties. Yeah, Like I remember 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:52.159 growing up and people talking about MSG and Chinese restaurants, 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:57.200 and the whole time they were talking smack about Chinese restaurants, 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:00.760 a lot of American families were just dumping that stuff 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:04.120 all over their food via that little accent spice bottle. Yeah, 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:07.200 accent any kind of processed food that has any sort 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:10.600 of salty or savory kind of flavor to it, Like, 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:15.520 it's everywhere. It's in grape juice. It appears everywhere, naturally 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.760 and added because grape juice what you want is a meaty, 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:22.760 salty after taste. Swishing the grape juice around in your mouth, 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.400 you're like, Yeah, it's got a real oyster equality to it. 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:28.760 I love it. Are they natural and oysters? Is at 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:34.560 the deal? Yeah? Oysters clans they MSG. They like the 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:39.200 little trio of those three letters. Yeah. So the point 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:43.880 is that people are terrified of MSG or really can't 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.600 stand it. They say, maybe it gives them all sorts 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:49.600 of physical maladies. Perhaps they think it can can lead 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:52.800 to developmental disorders, and yet at the same time, they 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:57.320 consume m MSG every day without realizing it and without 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:00.320 being affected by it. So it's entirely possible. And you said, 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:02.800 we'll talk about this much more in depth later, that 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:08.360 the fear of MSG is a totally unfounded scientific panic 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:13.680 that is, uh, basically a no cebow reaction to something 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:17.880 that appears to be basically harmless to almost everybody who 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:21.160 consumes it. Yeah, so let's I mean, we're gonna be 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:24.840 busting some myths left and right. Like I call Adam. 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:29.840 Did you say I call Adam? Yeah, I call Adam. 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:36.240 You're Jamie this time. Nuts. Yeah, you gotta shave your 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:38.360 beard to just keep the mustache. Yeah yeah, and I 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.120 gotta grow that mustache out to where it covers both lips. 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:44.400 That's right. He had that big thing, but he disappeared. 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.840 Oh yeah, he said, thanks for the memories, suckers. Yeah. 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:51.840 My I always had was under the impression, just watching 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:54.680 that show and being a fan that he didn't want 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:57.720 to be there ever, Right, I think he liked the 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:00.120 science of it, he wasn't into the TV part of it, 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:02.040 I think so. I think his last day on set. 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:05.920 He was He was probably pretty stoked together, right, he 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:08.040 was like Jerry at the end of stuff, you should 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:11.360 know when it comes. Yeah, except he had millions of 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:16.400 dollars stuffed into his arm guarter exactly. All right. So, 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:19.760 monosodium glutamate is there's a lot of myths. One of 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:21.960 them is that you know, this is something that human 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.560 beings just created out of thin air. It's black magic. 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:29.120 And that is not true because it occurs naturally. And 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:32.040 a lot of foods. If you've ever had tomatoes and cheese, 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:34.360 those are a couple of big ones. Eat a pizza, 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:42.280 you're eaten naturally occurring MSG. Yeah, don't forget again. Oysters, anchovies, mushrooms, potatoes, um, 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:47.120 if you like Asian food, kelp seaweed, all that stuff 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:52.679 contains natural MSG or some form of glutamates. Yeah, and 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:56.880 such that the f d A like, if you get 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:00.679 a can of tomato sauce, if you haven't uh added 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:03.520 MSG otherwise, you don't have to put that on the 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:07.160 label because it's in the tomato. Right. But apparently in 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.360 the United States you also can't put something like no 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:14.840 added MSG or no MSG on the label because it's 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:18.760 been proven as misleading. She just don't mention MSG at all, 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:21.640 even though there is MSG in that tomato sauce. But 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:25.760 like you said, if the manufacturer says, these tomatoes have 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:28.120 a decent amount of MSG, but we really want to 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:30.960 pep it up a little bit with some added MSG, 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:34.080 then they definitely have to put that MSG is in there. 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:38.080 That's right. So, if you want to talk chemistry very briefly, 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:42.320 which is always the best way to talk about chemistry, uh, 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:46.360 it is monosodium glutamate. Is glutamic or glutamic acid? What 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:51.360 do you say? Glutamic glutamic and a little ion a 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:54.800 sodium just woop right there on top, right, and so 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:59.000 so that's it. That's monosodium glutamate. And so the difference 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:02.320 between glutamc acid, which is an amino acid that our 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:06.079 bodies produced were able to synthesize it by breaking down proteins, 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:11.679 it's actually um a glutamic acid, and any kind of 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:15.800 mineral ion bonded together is a glutamate. So if it's bonded, 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:19.120 if glutamic acid is bonded with an ion a sodium, 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:23.200 it's monosodium glutamate. If it's bonded with an ion of potassium. 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:27.040 It's potassium glutamate um. So there's like different minerals that 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:28.720 it can bond to, but the one we're talking about 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:34.360 is monosodium glutamate. And glutamate is extremely important to our bodies. 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:38.880 I saw somewhere that four pounds of us a little 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:42.920 a little under two kims um of any human being 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:46.199 walking around is glutamate. That's how that's how much of 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:48.120 it we have in our bodies at at any given 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.280 point in time. Yeah, and it it actually serves functions 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:57.359 to Glutamic acid is a neurotransmitter, and it's an excitatory neurotransmitter, 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:01.240 which that means it stimulates nerve cells to relay the signal. 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:04.400 And we'll get to the is it good or bad thing? 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:07.640 But some people one of the claims and sort of 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.840 where some of that is rooted aside from just propaganda, 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:15.160 is that MSG and foods can lead to excessive glutamate 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.320 in the brain and then excessive stimulation of nerve cells. 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:22.959 And for that reason, it's what's called an excitotoxin, right, Like, 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:26.240 it excites neurons so much that it actually destroys or 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:30.680 damages them. So you destroy enough neurons, then you destroy 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:33.559 your cognitive function. That's right, and we'll we'll hold the 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:37.840 rest of that to the UH for further mythbusting, mythbuff thing, 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:41.559 I like the extra mustard you put on it. So 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:43.400 as far as how much we're consuming, this is what 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:46.600 the FDA says, and this is a quote. An average 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:50.199 adult consumes approximately thirteen grams of glutamate each day from 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:52.240 the protein and food. And then this is just like 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:56.120 regular foods. While intake of added MSG is estimated to 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:59.959 be around point five five grams per day, So average 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.800 daily intake is about a half a grammed day. Right, 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:07.040 and so um you can find it again everywhere in 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:10.600 the body. You also find it in um, breast, milk, UM, 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.920 and glutamates are just everywhere. And so even if you 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.880 wanted to get away from M S G, you're not 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:20.439 really getting away from glutamates. And it would be you'd 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.520 be ill advised to get away from glutamates to begin with. Right, 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:26.480 the thing is, and this is where a lot of 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.800 people say, well, really, MSG is fine, there's no problems 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:32.640 with it. A lot of people say that it's kind 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.600 of consider settle science by some as we'll see um 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:41.599 that the body does not distinguish between manufactured MSG and 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:45.439 the MSG or other kinds of glutamates that it gets 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:50.120 from foods in which this naturally occurs. Right when your 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:53.000 body takes it in takes a MSG, it goes Okay, 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:55.680 let's separate the sodium ion and send it over here 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.800 for this use, and we'll break the glutamate down over here, 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.599 and we'll use it for us for neurotransmitting and to 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:07.120 build proteins. It doesn't make any any distinction metabolically speaking, 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:11.559 between MSG that's manufactured and MSG that you find in 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:15.040 like tomatoes, right. I think part of the problem started 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:18.880 in the sixties with the way it was synthesized. Yeah. Uh. 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:23.160 Anytime something is synthesized to a chemical process that has 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:27.320 you know, toxins and toxic byproducts, I think people are 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.800 going to freak out, even if the end result is 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:34.920 not toxic. Yeah. And it's pretty understandable too, because I mean, 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:37.160 some of the stuff we're talking about is very nasty, 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:39.800 and you think about it, You're like, wait, that's where 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.240 MSG comes from, and I'm eating it on my food. 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.560 I can I can commiserate with that big time, even 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:48.280 though a large part of my brain is like that's 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:51.160 just kind of a fear of science and chemistry. But 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.480 it's understandable. I mean, like in the for the first 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:57.960 half of the twentieth century, there was a process um 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:03.079 to produce MSG that include to propylene and acryla nitrial. 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.440 But you don't want to eat that, and you don't 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:09.640 eat it. It's just these were used to as precursors 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:13.559 to create ms G. That's how that's the process for 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:15.720 a while. But you can understand how it would get 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.400 a bad rep just from that alone. Yeah, but now 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:22.680 it's produced by fermentation. Basically, they take certain kinds of 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:26.200 bacteria and yeast and they grow that in a broth. 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:31.440 They basically use starches, various sugars, carbohydrates, and then the 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:35.760 bacteria ferments that sugar and they produce the glutamate. Then 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:39.520 they combine it with the sodium and it becomes it 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.960 looks sort of like salt. It's a white crystalline substance. 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:45.680 It doesn't really have much of an odor, and you 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.120 could just sprinkle it on top of your chocolate ice 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:51.240 cream if you wanted. You could. I think it actually 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:55.520 does in certain amounts bring out sweet I don't think 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:58.400 it does anything to sour bitter, but it can enhance 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:02.040 sweetness and enhance salty. No, it does have its own flavor, 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.800 which we'll see, but it's also known as a flavor enhancer. 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:11.800 To write like that, accent right, exactly accent. Why aren't 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.400 they sponsoring this episode? I don't know. They really should 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:17.080 either that or like, leave us out of this. We 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:20.000 don't want to get this kind of wrap there. Queenly, 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:22.600 we were under the radar for a large portion of 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:26.120 the twentieth century, right exactly until you guys came along. 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:28.440 Should we take a break? Oh wait, hold on, I 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.400 have a little more on fermentation. Of course, this is 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:35.920 very surprising. But the fermentation the waste water, what's left 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.280 over after you get the MSG out of this, like 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.119 sugar beet juice that the bacteria and yeast have fermented. 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:47.600 I read a study from um the Chinese National Academy 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:51.000 of Science. I believe Chinese Academy of Science. They called 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:57.680 um MSG wastewater one of the most intractable forms of wastewater. 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:02.560 We we produce it, yeah, because all of that yeast 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:06.280 and some of the ammonium that's produced as a byproduct 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:10.000 of it. It um consumes a lot of oxygen, so 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:12.320 it kills off other stuff and like water, So you 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.120 can't just dump this wastewater into other water because it'll 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:17.920 create like a dead zone wherever it hits. That does 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.560 it's bode well for people that you know are scared 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:22.720 of it. No, it doesn't. There's a lot of stuff 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:24.720 about I'm achieve where if you look at you're like, yeah, 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:27.800 I really understand it's really coincidental that this is actually harmless. 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:33.600 But there's all this like circumstantial peripheral stuff that's wastewater. 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:37.360 The wastewater will scorch, scorch the earth basically, Yeah, but 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:43.040 enjoy your enjoy your accent, chump, poor accent. All right now, 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:46.320 I'm okay with taking a break. All right. Uh, We'll 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:48.440 come back and talk a little bit, a little bit 0:16:48.480 --> 0:17:17.920 of a refresher perhaps on umami. Right after this, so, Chuck, 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.159 we did an entire episode on New Mommy. Do you 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:22.760 remember that? That was a good one. It was. We 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:25.720 also talked about it in our episode on Taste and 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.880 how it works. But we should kind of go over 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:32.000 the broad strokes of it again, I think, yeah, I 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:35.800 mean up until uh, the early nineteen hundreds. Humans were 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.399 sort of since four d b C, when bitter was 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:44.840 added by a philosopher of all people named Democritis democratus 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.640 anything those philosophers couldn't do, I don't think so. It's 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:55.680 pretty broad title back then, but sweet, salty, sour, and bitter, 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:58.560 and we were locked into that and everyone was pretty 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:02.200 happy with that. Like I mess with it, you know, 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.320 I don't know they're still messing with it today. There's 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.879 just seen like six seven other candidates for a sixth taste. 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:11.320 I'm sure that will be happening at some point in 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:13.280 near future, don't you think. Yeah? And I think we 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.200 settled last time on carbon dioxide is going to be 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:23.640 the sixth taste? Really really wow, sad. We know it's 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:25.680 a good it's a goo and it does some some 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:28.440 magic to your tongue. I guess it does, doesn't it? 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:33.960 All Right, Well we'll see. Uh so here here's a 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.120 gentleman that comes along in nine nine and his name 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:42.600 is Kakuni Akita? Is that right? Uh? Not bad? What 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.560 did I get wrong? There's like an extra little half 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:49.560 syllable in there. Okay, Well I should just leave the 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:52.240 Japanese pronunciations to you. I think you basically knew I 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:53.920 should have just kept my mouth shut because it was 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.920 so close that I've got Europe blocked down? How selfish? 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:02.159 Can I be? Right? Exactly? You do? Kekunaya Akada in 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:06.480 an Italian accent. I don't think I can't. Just my 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:09.320 brain just broke. Uh. So he was a professor of 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:13.679 chemistry at Tokyo Imperial University and he was eating some dashi, 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:18.040 which is made from seaweed, a kelp called kombu, and 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:22.800 he was like, man, uh, this taste meaty, but there's 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:24.680 no meat in it, and it's super rich, and there's 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:27.720 something going on in here that I don't uh that 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:30.159 I can't quite pinpoint, and I think I might be 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.879 onto something. He said, where's the beef? You might have? 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:37.520 He totally did. So this is not like the first 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:40.800 time anyone ever realized, like, yeah, there's a there's something, 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:43.399 there's such a thing as a meaty taste or whatever. 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.280 But because we have been so locked into those the 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:48.679 idea that there's only four tastes. I mean, I remember 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:52.159 going to elementary school and being taught that too in 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:55.639 the in the eighties, basically just lied to over and 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.240 over again. Yeah, no one. No one said umami to 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:02.760 me until like even years ago. Basically yeah um. But 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:07.040 uh at Kada had figured this out way back in night. 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:09.680 He said, no, this is not just some flavor. This 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:12.960 is a taste sensation that is not one of the 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:16.960 other four. It's its own thing. And even more than that, 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:20.800 I've been doing some pretty neat experiments on kombo and 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:25.240 dashi and I've actually isolated what's giving this thing. It's 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:27.720 meaty taste. And by the way, I'm gonna call meaty 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:32.639 taste ou mommy, which means delicious or yummy um. And 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:36.920 it's called monosodium glutamate, that's right. Uh. And this was 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:42.119 not We knew about glutamic glutamic acid. Which way do 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:44.680 you say? Do you prefer glutamic? I mean, my my 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.920 mouth wants to say glutamic, but my heart wants to 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.080 say glue to me. My, got you so torn between 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:54.640 two lovers? You are just called it G acid? Yeah, 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:57.320 g acid. We knew about this stuff already. There was 0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:02.080 a German chemist name Carl Einrich Rithausen beautiful and he 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:05.879 discovered this in eighteen sixty six. So that brings us 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:11.200 to another myth Weekend Bust. Here is that gluten like 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:15.280 because it's monosodium glutamate. People that have gluten intolerance, I 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:17.719 think that it's made with wheat gluten and that they 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:20.040 can't eat it. And that's not that's not true at all. No, 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:22.800 did you had you heard that before? I've heard I 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:27.440 think anything with the letters G l U in any food, 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:31.560 I think people that have gluten sensitivity are wary of. Right, Well, 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:33.920 what's interesting about this? I hadn't heard that, but this 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:37.399 makes total sense. The reason that it's even called glutamic 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:43.359 acid is because um Rittenhausen used wheat gluten to He 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:46.240 hydrolyzed it, basically broke it down like the acids in 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:51.919 your stomach breakdown food, to isolate UM the glutamic acid. 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:54.879 Since he used wheat gluten, he just kind of named 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:59.520 the acid after what he used the as the the precursor, 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:02.200 which was weak gluten. But it has no gluten in. 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:04.520 It has nothing to do with gluten. You can get 0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:08.119 um MSG any number of ways that don't involve wheat 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:10.600 to ever. Tell you about the restaurant in Paris, the 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:13.480 Gluten Free Place. Emily and I went to, No, you 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:19.439 know what the name of it was what no glue, noice? Serious, 0:22:19.600 --> 0:22:22.560 that's pretty great. Yeah, right in the middle of Paris, 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:24.000 and it was actually really good. I had a very 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:28.760 very delicious hamburger there. I can imagine, man, French cooking is, yeah, 0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:32.119 even without gluten. And speaking of French cooking, there is 0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:35.840 a guy who was using savory. That's what people in 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:39.160 the West called it. Even after a Keda came along 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:41.000 and said no, no, it's this is your mommy, it's 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:44.600 its own thing. The Western chefs were well aware of 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:47.200 this idea of savory. They just hadn't said this is 0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:51.159 a fifth taste that humans are capable of tasting. Um 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:55.200 and Augusta Scoffier, who I had heard the name of before, 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:58.640 but I didn't realize. Um, he's the guy who basically 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:03.880 founded for classical cuisine as we understand it today. Yeah, 0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:06.879 it was this guy. He invented the sauce. No, no, 0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:10.520 he invented like French cooking. That was a joke. And 0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:12.960 French is all about the sauces. It is about the sauce. 0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:14.480 So yes, I'm sure he had a lot to do 0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:17.560 with the sauce. But I was reading in an article 0:23:17.680 --> 0:23:22.560 on him in Britannica and it was written by Nathan Mervold, 0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:25.680 who was the first CTO of Microsoft. But it was 0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:30.760 about this French cook from the nineteenth century. Yeah, he was. 0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:33.840 He was big into animal stocks and he used veal 0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:39.560 stock and kitten stock and puppy stock, all sorts of 0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:43.800 baby animal stocks. Uh. And he knew about it, you know, 0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:46.639 he was. We just didn't call it umami until it 0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:48.960 was so named. No. And also one other thing about 0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:53.240 escofi a. He also used something called Maggie sauce, which 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:56.160 had been invented several years before by Julius Maggie, who 0:23:56.200 --> 0:23:58.760 was a Swiss miller. Um who came up with the 0:23:58.800 --> 0:24:01.200 sauce in a scoffier was like, this is the bomb. 0:24:01.320 --> 0:24:04.200 I think was the quote that he said. Um. So 0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:07.000 people were aware of savory so much so that they 0:24:07.040 --> 0:24:10.560 were creating sauces that really isolated the ommmy flavor. It 0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:13.080