WEBVTT - Julian C. Salisbury on Managing Global Assets 0:00:02.040 --> 0:00:07.360 This is Master's in Business with Barry Ridholds on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:13.280 This week on the podcast, I have an extra special guest. 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:17.000 What can I say about Julian Salisbury. He is the 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:21.200 chief Investment Officer of Asset and Wealth Management at Goldman Sachs. 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:24.280 He's a member of the Management Committee. He co chairs 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:31.680 a number of the asset management investment committees. He covers pe, infrastructure, growth, equity, credit, 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:36.320 real estate, on and on. Really a fascinating person who 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:40.720 has seen the world from a unique perspective in multiple 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:44.160 cities as an investor. He's been with Goldman for twenty 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:48.280 five years and helps oversee over two and a half 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:52.720 trillion dollars in assets under supervision. I thought this was 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:57.480 an absolutely fascinating way to see the world of investment management. 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:00.640 And I found this conversation to be fascinating and I 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:04.839 think you will also, with no further ado, my discussion 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:09.119 with Goldman Sachs. Julian Salisbury, Welcome to Bloomberg. 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:10.560 Thanks Berry. It's great to be here. 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:14.039 I've been looking forward to this conversation for a long time. 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:17.240 Let's start out with a little bit of your background. 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:21.039 You begin in audit practice at KPMG. What was the 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:22.080 original career plan. 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:25.320 Honestly, I didn't really have a long term plan. I 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:28.200 grew up in a family where my mother was a mathematician, 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:30.039 my father was a chemist. I didn't really know much 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:33.600 about the world of finance. Investment banks were not really 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:36.240 a known concept in the area I grew up. I 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.360 graduated college, realized I need to needed to get a job. 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:41.360 And my dad had always said, as you know, many 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:44.640 young kids get this advice doctor, a lawyer, accountant, engineer, 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:48.160 and accountants seemed like a reasonable option. And I kind 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:51.000 of stumbled my way into accounting and what I found 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.320 was it was just a phenomenal training ground for somebody 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:58.760 who wants to then go on to invest especially doing 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:03.680 more micro level analysis like that. Background of being an 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:06.520 accountant was just was just great bedrock training. 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:10.320 Very precise, very specific. So how do you then go 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:13.799 from tax and order practice to finance and invest in 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:15.120 very different fields. 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:16.920 Yeah, I'd love to tell you there was some great 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:19.799 master plan, but you know, in the UK, you when 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.600 you qualify as a chartered accountant, first of all, you 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.440 have to complete your three years training. So you know, 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:27.960 people these days want to change job after a year 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:31.000 eighteen months you had to finish the three years. I 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:33.920 finished the three years. I qualified. The following week, I'd 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:36.040 lined up a bunch of job interviews with a variety 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.920 of banks, and again, I had ended up in the 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:42.880 financial services audit practice at KPMG, so I'd got to 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:45.120 know banks a little bit, and frankly, you know, I 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:47.720 heard they pay more. So I interviewed with a bunch 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:49.959 of banks, got a number of job offers by the 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.840 end of the week, and joined Goldman Sachs in October 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:53.639 nineteen ninety eight. 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:56.000 So let me throw one of your own quotes back 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:59.240 at you, because I feel like it's so revealing. Quote 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:03.000 the world defining and is it as complicated as newcomers expect. 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:07.440 It's simply shrouded in techno jargon. Explain what you mean there. 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:10.880 I continue to find this truth to this day. But 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:13.639 when I first joined the firm, I was doing P 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.119 and L and risk reporting for a credit trading desk, 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.440 and people start talking about DEVO on this, and duration 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:23.560 that jumped to default, this, futures versus cash. I didn't 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:26.680 know what any of these terms meant, so I took 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:29.320 it upon myself to go off and took a course 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.600 in bond math, took another course in derivatives, and realized 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:36.240 the underlying fundamental concepts were barely I mean, it wasn't 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.080 even high school math in most cases. And it was 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:42.640 really more about learning not a different language, but a 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:45.800 different dialect. And it's interesting because you'll find people who'll 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:49.000 be fluent in one dialect, and then you know, they 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:51.560 become fluent in credit dialect. And then you talk to 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:53.640 somebody who works in an equities business and they start 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:57.080 throwing greeks at you, and you've never come across these terms. Again, 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:00.160 it sounds highly complicated. Most people, you could sit them 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:02.280 down in half an hour and explain, you know, the 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:04.080 majority of the concepts. 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:05.680 That that's been kind of true in a lot of 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:11.360 professions over history, is that almost by design, their language 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:15.160 keeps outsiders at arms distance, and hey, if you want 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:18.120 to learn our secrets, you have to pay us. Are 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:21.359 you suggesting that all of this techno jargon is just 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:25.839 to create a little mystique around. 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:27.640 I wouldn't say that's entirely what boy you find it 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.440 And this becomes more and more true, I think is 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:33.480 people become very specialized in order to compete and win 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:35.760 in so many things today and finance, you have to 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:38.080 be super specialized. So you find people who are super 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:40.880 deep in one area, one narrow area, and it might 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:43.800 be it might be investment, great credit or distress credit. 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:47.760 It might be equity derivatives, it might be growth equity, 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:51.640 and they all develop their own little system of useful terms. 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:55.640 But then they end up becoming almost like a barrier. 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:58.640 That makes it hard for an outsider who hasn't grown 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.120 up in the world of finale, who doesn't have you know, 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:03.239 a father who ran a hedge fund or an unkleho 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:05.000 ran a private equity firm. It's hard for them to 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:09.080 break in without some way of developing that jargon. 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:14.200 So that shorthand works for the practitioners, and there's no 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:17.520 malicious intent there, it's just, hey, that's how these people 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:19.240 talk in their chosren specialty. 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:20.760 Yeah, it's quite natural. 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:24.080 Really interesting. So you mentioned you joined Goldman Sachs in 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:28.560 nineteen ninety eight, coming up on your twenty fifth anniversary. Congratulations, 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:31.840 thank you, that's pretty good heady times in ninety eight. 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:35.279 What's kept you with Goldman for twenty five years. 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:39.240 Look, I think first of all, it's the people just 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:43.920 super high quality people across the business, no matter what 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:47.599 part of the firm they operate in, just the average 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:55.800 intensity level, integrity level capabilities, and it's just really hard 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.679 to match when you get to other organizations. So people 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:01.080 is a huge part of it. Another part of it 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:03.440 is I've been lucky in that I've you know, although 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.039 I've been in one firm for twenty five years, I've 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:08.840 just done so many radically different things. 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:11.360 You've been in a lot of different divisions, You've had 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:12.640 a lot of different job description. 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.320 Yeah, I've been in I think all but one division 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:18.440 at this point, and I've worked in three different offices 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:21.640 too continents. I would say it's been a little more 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:25.720 evolutionary after the first five or six years, but that 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:30.360 ability to constantly be learning and at times be quite 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.960 entrepreneurial in terms of starting new businesses. So what I 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:36.520 tend to find is after three or four years, it 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:38.920 depends how big and complicated the task is. But after 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:41.240 in some cases it might be two years, in other 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.000 cases it may take a little longer. Three four years, 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:46.599 you know, you start to think what's next. You know, 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:48.719 you develop reps. A lot of things are hard to 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:51.719 start with, and then it's like I love sports analogies. 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:53.640 It's like lifting weights. At some point you have to 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.839 start changing the exercise or increasing the weights, otherwise you 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:01.320 stop developing and learning. And sometimes it's a and then 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:02.960 you can go back to what you were doing before 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:05.800 and you come back and you've benefited from that cross training. 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:09.880 But it's the ability to constantly learn and keep adapting. 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.600 So you mentioned a couple of continents. You've worked in London, 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:17.200 in Moscow and now New York. How have your roles 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.920 changed in each of those locations and what do you 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:24.000 learn working in very different parts of the world. 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:26.880 Yeah, So I joined, as I said, in ninety eight, 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:28.560 and I was doing P and L and risk reporting 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.680 for the investment grade trading desk and then the high 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:33.840 yield desk. I ended up being hired onto the high 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:36.240 yield desk as a research analyst and did that for 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:38.560 a number of years, a couple of years, and then 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.040 I was the beneficiary of the TMT bubble bursting in 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.240 two thousand and one, so the whole sector that I 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:45.240 was covering went bankrupt. So I went from being a 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:49.320 publishing high old research analyst to a distressed debt analyst 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:50.640 and an investor. 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:53.480 Same companies, just same companies. Yeah, they just became distressed. 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:55.600 The high your bonds quickly went to zero and then 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:59.600 you're buying the bank loans at discounted prices. So and 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:03.720 that was that was fairly evolutionary. And then in about 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:06.720 two thousand and three we set up a group called 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:09.760 the European Special Situations Group, which was a multi asset 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:14.080 class proprietary investing business. It was centered around credit, but 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:18.160 really invested in both credit real estate growth equity. I 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:21.120 led the corporate research team there for a few years 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.160 and then, you know, in a fit of madness, I 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.120 guess at the end of six you know, the credit 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:30.320 markets were pretty uninteresting. There wasn't a lot to do. 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:34.320 It was kind of bad companies issuing low quality bonds, 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.920 and I thought about, you know what's next. I actually 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:39.640 went out to visit the team in Asia and thought 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:43.040 about moving out there. And my wife happens to be 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:45.839 Russian or bella Russian, so I had an interest in 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:48.400 the Russian market. And around that time, Russia was starting 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:49.720 to open up a little bit. It was a very 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:51.880 different place till we find ourselves today. They were starting 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:56.160 to want to attract international capital and I did a 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:57.760 couple of trips out there and the next thing I know, 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:00.640 my boss is buying me a one way ticket to Moscow. 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:03.199 So I spent the next couple of years there. The 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:05.520 role there was quite different. Was really building a growth 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.560 equity business, and we had some great successes. Not backing 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:11.560 oil and gas companies or formerly state owned assets. It 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:14.480 was really finding growth equity companies, young entrepreneurs that were 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:16.800 building businesses. I did that for a couple of years 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:19.120 and then I moved back to London at the end 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:21.760 of O eight, which was a really interesting pivot. Yeah, 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:24.640 I was asked to come back to lead the European Business, 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:27.240 which you know, took about buying at the bottom. You know, 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:28.880 at the end of eight we owned a lot of 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:32.679 I liquid assets and whilst on a relative basis, you know, 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:35.199 those assets outperformed what was going on in a lot 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.079 of other private firms. You know, it was certainly I 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:40.240 think we had one hundred and sixty nine positions on 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:41.760 the book at the time and there was a problem 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:43.160 with one hundred and sixty eight of them at the 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:45.360 end of eight. That was kind of like a you know, 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:49.439 almost like a distressed buy at the bottom assignment. But 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:51.760 was interesting about that was the quick need to both 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:54.959 separate the portfolio between the old stuff and the new stuff, 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:57.680 because there were a lot of new investment opportunities and 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:01.320 if people were too burdened down by dealing with legacy situations, 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:03.960 they couldn't really focus on the new opportunities. And frankly 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:05.280 had to do with the same with the people. 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:08.000 I think that was a proposal from one of the 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.800 central bankers. We need a bad bank and a good bank. 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:14.480 You inherit a whole bunch of positions that have come 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:17.760 through the financial crisis. You really want to look at 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:21.200 this as hey, here's the legacy stuff that comes with 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.320 a little air on it, and here's our opportunistic Hey 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:26.680 look at all this stuff that we have no exposure. 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:31.000 What was the financial crisis like when you were in London? 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:35.319 How in the US? It was sheer mayhem? What was 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:36.040 it like over there? 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.040 Absolutely? I mean it was an existential event. I mean 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.600 people were wondering, am I going to have a job? 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:43.199 It was the here I made partner actually in two 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:45.280 thousand and eight, and I thought, great, I just made partner. 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:47.600 Is this group? Is this business is going to exist 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:50.920 by the end of the year. So it was certainly stressful, 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:53.720 but in some ways those events and we saw it 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.640 again in March of twenty twenty, we saw it again, 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:00.480 you know, around you know, we see these big moments 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:04.760 where it draws people together. So actually everybody gets, you know, 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:07.960 any kind of nonsense and couch time, all dissiplates because 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:10.560 everyone's so focused on dealing with a task at hand. 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.200 So in that way, it was quite a good defining moment. 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.680 The other thing I would say is in some ways 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:17.960 it was I remember a few years earlier there was 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:21.080 one investment that I was working on that ended up 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:23.600 being spectacularly successful, but there was a period of time 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:25.120 where I was quite worried that it was going to 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:26.920 lose a lot of money. And the reason I was 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:29.960 worried it was my position. It was me and the 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:32.040 rest of the world was looking good. The thing in wait, 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.000 everything was broken and bad. So that actually helped in 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:38.200 a way that everybody was dealing with the same broad 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:41.040 based crisis as opposed to when it's just you or 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:44.280 just your firm or just your fund, where in some 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:46.079 ways it can feel more stressful. 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.800 So what brought you back to New York and what you. 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:53.360 Was at SO I led the European Special Situations Group 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:56.760 from eight to twenty thirteen, and then at that time 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.400 I was asked to run the global business and it 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:03.160 seemed pretty natural to move to the US at that time. 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:05.440 There are a couple of reasons for that. One, the 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:07.880 London market is where it's about most of my career. 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:10.559 I knew the market, but I also knew the people there. 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:14.520 I was very well calibrated at a very strong and 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:18.360 trusted team, the vast majority of which are still with 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:20.400 the business today. So I felt like that was the 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:22.320 last place I needed to be. So then it was 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:25.199 a question of Asia or the US. If I'd moved 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:26.640 to Hong Kong, I think it would have looked like 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:30.600 a fairly self serving tax trade. If I had done that, 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:32.520 it would have been because I thought that was one 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:34.720 of the more interesting markets at the time where there 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:36.400 was real out for generating capability. 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:41.319 But so you said, let's find the most expensive taxable city. Yeah, world, Yeah. 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:43.600 Now, what I decided to do what's right for the business, 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:45.840 and what was best for the business at the time, 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:47.800 was to be in New York. It's a New York 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.959 headquartered firm. It's a it's a US centric firm. I 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:53.679 think that's fairly well understood. And at the time, we 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:57.320 were going through a lot of regulatory change. Capital rules 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:01.640 were changing, risk appetite was changing, and being at headquarters 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:03.800 where you could stay close to the people, you know, 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.200 whether it's head of compliance, head of legal, head of risk, 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:10.120 some whoever was running the business needed to be close 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:12.800 to those decision makers in order to shepherd the business 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:16.400 through that post financial crisis period where there was a 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:21.040 lot of you know, the volcal rule like brought into focus. 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.320 You know, could we do these businesses? Could you run 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.960 private equity business? Could you run distress credit businesses? So 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:28.800 we really had to work through that over over a 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:30.559 number of years, and that's what really brought me to 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:33.640 the US. And you know, I wasn't a huge fan 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.839 of New York before I moved here, but now we've 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.120 been here almost ten years, we love it and you know, 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:40.120 I can't imagine leaving. 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:42.360 Tell us a little bit about what the Goldman Sachs 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.040 asset and wealth management business is, like, what do they 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:45.600 focus on? 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:49.840 Sure, Well, at the simplest level, we manage money for 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:53.120 our clients about two point seven trillion dollars of assets today. 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:59.160 Three main client segments institutional clients, our own private wealth clients, 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:02.120 and then third party wealth clients where we manage money 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:06.959 on behalf of other wealth managers distribution partners. So those 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:10.240 are the three main segments. Within institutional we manage money 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:14.640 on behalf of pensions, endowments, insurance companies, sovereign wealth funds. 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.600 So that's essentially what we what we do from from 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:20.960 a client segmentation perspective, and we do that globally US, 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:25.360 Europe and Asia. In terms of the from the from 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:29.000 the investing side of the business, we really are somewhat 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:32.040 unique in that we cover the full range. 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:35.400 Of products from meaning both public and alternatives. 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.240 Yes, and really even within that the full range, so 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:42.920 everything from money market funds, core fixed income, high yield, 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:46.520 fundamental equity, quant equity, and then the full range of 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:50.480 alternatives both direct and indirect. We have a business where 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:54.360 we invest in other people's private equity funds, private credit funds, 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.240 and then we have a series of direct investment strategies 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:03.760 private equity, growth, equity, credit, real state, infrastructure, sustainability, life sciences, 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.480 so what we find and then of course we have 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:09.880 a multi asset solutions business where we talk to clients 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:14.840 about the entirety of their portfolio, their strategic asset allocation models. 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:18.320 So what we find is with our clients increasingly, they 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:20.600 don't want to just be pitched on a product or 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:24.000 pitched on a single idea. It's like, what do I do? 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.200 How do I address my needs? What are my liability structures? 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:30.360 How do I make long term investment decisions? And then 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.960 how do I execute upon that overall advice through these 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.120 individual investment opportunities. 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:39.320 So that sounds like a substantial menu of options that 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:44.720 can be fairly customized for each individual client, regardless family office, 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:48.560 high net worth individual, or one of the institutions. Take 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.080 us through a little bit of what that process is like, 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:54.840 because I have to assume it's not cookie cutter. If 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:57.320 you're dealing with a sovereign wealth fund, that's a very 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:00.600 different conversation than a family authors. 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:05.040 Look, every client is different. They have a different liability structure, 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:09.880 different investment goals, different investment risk tolerances, and we have 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:13.360 different teams. We have an institutional client team, we have 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:17.480 private wealth advisors that cover our own clients directly, and 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.120 then we have a series of people that cover the 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:25.600 distribution partners. So it's pretty bespoken, tailored to their individual needs. 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:29.560 And yes, some demand and expect a high level of 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:33.040 customization and a higher level of service. If somebody's giving 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.360 us billions of dollars, then they expect a very high 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.760 level of customization. At the simpler end, it can be 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:43.440 a relatively plain, vanilla product, but even our private wealth 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:49.480 smaller private wealth clients are increasingly looking for broader set 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:52.840 of advice and customization in terms of how we design 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:57.080 their portfolio, which could be implementing values that they have 0:16:57.280 --> 0:16:59.240 or tilt that they have a desire to include or 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:03.240 exclude certain products or q SIPs within their within their 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:05.200 equity portfolio or fixed income portfolio. 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:10.159 Really intriguing. So so your chief investment officer of asset 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:14.840 and wealth management, that sounds like there's a pretty big 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:20.760 list of responsibilities under that. So not only are you 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:27.400 describing the broader asset allocation decisions with various clients, you're 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:30.760 also selecting the specific assets that go within each of 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.160 those allocations. Is that is that more or less right? 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:35.679 So we have we have different teams that do this. 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:39.320 So we have our MAS team, a multi asset solutions team, 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:42.440 who are really providing more of the overall portfolio advice, 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.359 and that's that's a discrete skill set by doing that. 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.520 And then we have investment teams in each of these areas, 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.919 so we have specialists in each of the sectors that 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.560 I set out for you. I'm responsible for each of 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:57.160 these individual investment teams making sure we have the right 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:00.520 players on the field, the right processes in place. And 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.720 then as it relates to the private side activities, I 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.280 co chair all of those investment committees, so the individual 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.000 deals that are coming through in our private equity business 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.159 and our growth equity business and our real estate business. 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:13.600 So we have you know, I'm one person. My primary 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:15.480 responsibility at the end of the days to make sure 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:18.840 that we have the right people on the field, you know, 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:21.200 fulfilling each of these roles and functions. 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:23.560 You're the coach and you're sending different players in to 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:28.240 do different jobs. So your background, you've worked at merchant banking, 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.119 you've worked in special situations. How does all of that 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:34.080 come into play as chief investment officers. 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.480 It's interesting because some of it's helpful and useful, and 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:39.640 then sometimes it can bur in. You you know, when 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:41.879 I ran a special situations group, it was a pure 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:44.840 investing business. We didn't really have clients, we didn't really 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:48.000 have to worry about marketing or advertising, didn't spend time 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.000 on podcasts or TV. We kept everything as quiet as 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.479 possible and one hundred percent of the focus was just 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:58.000 finding interesting investments that we generated the highest return on 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:00.720 equity possible for the firm. Wouldn't be a dollar of 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.240 risk that we would deploy that I wouldn't personally review. 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:05.200 We'd have a couple of hundred deals a year coming 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:07.679 through investment committee. And that was interesting and it was 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:09.880 a great model while it lasted. But I would say 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:15.040 that the industry changed, the regulatory environment changed, and also 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:16.920 I used to sit back and think, this is great. 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.119 You know, we just get to focus on assets and 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.960 asset risk management. I don't have to worry about flying 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:26.000 around the world collecting capital from LPs. We have one 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:28.360 LP and it's the firm, it's Goldman Sachs, and they're 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:32.320 in the same building. The problem is, you know that 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:34.679 there are multiple problems with that, but one is you 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:38.040 miss out on a huge information piece, which is understanding 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:42.520 what these huge asset allocators and investors want and understanding 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.080 what their liability structures are and what their needs are 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.879 from an investment perspective, really informs your view on the 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:52.280 forward path of asset prices. And then you know, I 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:56.480 would also say we were seeing increasing need from our 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:59.720 clients to increase allocations to alternatives, and we were doing 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:01.520 a lot of this for ourselves, but we didn't have 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:05.120 enough investment product to be able to offer to our 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:07.280 clients and scale and grow the business. So it was 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.359 a very natural evolution to take a series of businesses 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:14.239 which have been prosecuted either wholly on balance sheet or 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:16.720 to a large extent on balance sheet, and start to 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.199 evolve that business model where we continue to commit our 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:21.959 own capital and our partner's capital, but to bring in 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:23.280 client money alongside us. 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:27.200 So you touch on so many fascinating areas. I have 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:30.480 to follow up at least with three of them. One 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:36.400 is you mentioned clients once. How do you separate when 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:41.720 clients want something from when clients need something, and then 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:45.360 lastly from when hey, all these clients are all clamoring 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:48.560 for the same asset class. Maybe this has had a 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.080