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Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda land Audio

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Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. Have your Girls seen

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Speaker 1: My Girl? Not yet? Now we could do a whole

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Speaker 1: other talk about childhood performance. The world is so trauma aware,

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Speaker 1: and yet we still are pretending that the psyches of

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Speaker 1: child performers and I mean athletes who don't book. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it can't even Hi, guys, It's Katie Lows and welcome

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Speaker 1: back to Katie's Crib. Guys. It is season five, Baby,

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Speaker 1: How are you guys? Is everybody hanging in there? I mean,

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Speaker 1: can you believe that we're still in a pandemic? Or

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Speaker 1: is it an endemic or an epidemic? Now? I don't

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Speaker 1: even know. But for the past few months, we've definitely

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Speaker 1: been shifting towards a new normal. More places are starting

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Speaker 1: to open up again, more mask mandates are being lifted,

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Speaker 1: more people are out and about for me, um, some

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Speaker 1: opportunities have shown themselves, like I've got Inventing Anna that

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Speaker 1: just came out on Netflix. You can stream it. I'm

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Speaker 1: also in my first sitcom on CBS called How We Roll,

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Speaker 1: which comes out on marcht one. But one thing that

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Speaker 1: has not changed is the dedication that you guys have

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Speaker 1: seriously shown toward this podcast, and I want to thank

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Speaker 1: you guys so much from the bottom of my heart

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Speaker 1: for continuing to tune in each week and recommending it

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Speaker 1: to your friends our community. It just, man, it just

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Speaker 1: feels so honest and authentic to me, and I am

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Speaker 1: able to be so vulnerable with you guys about exactly

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Speaker 1: what I'm going through at the moment, and I just

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Speaker 1: really appreciate you all being there. I've learned so many

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Speaker 1: things about parenting through this podcast, talking to experts and

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Speaker 1: other parents who are going through the same journey. I've laughed,

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Speaker 1: I've cried, I've gone through a whole roller coaster of

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Speaker 1: emotions and I hope you all have to and I

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Speaker 1: cannot wait to ring you guys along with me for

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Speaker 1: the ride in this new season. I am so excited

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Speaker 1: about season five's very first guest. I am chatting with

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Speaker 1: the One, the Only, Anna Clumsky. So Anna and I

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Speaker 1: are on this new Netflix show called Inventing Anna and

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Speaker 1: the whole story it's told through her characters eyes. She

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Speaker 1: plays Vivian Kent, journalist. That's all I'm gonna tell you,

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Speaker 1: because you're just gonna have to watch and see what

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about. But let me just be the one

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Speaker 1: to tell you that she is so good in this part,

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Speaker 1: it's unbelievable. But she and I hadn't talked in quite

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Speaker 1: a while because there was a pandemic and shooting and

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Speaker 1: she lives in New York and I live in l

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Speaker 1: A and blah blah blah blah blah. But I really

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Speaker 1: just wanted to catch up. I wanted to know more

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Speaker 1: about her pregnancies, about her labors, how she's sharing her

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Speaker 1: acting career experience with her children, and so much more.

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Speaker 1: If you all don't know Anna Clumsky, are you living

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Speaker 1: under a rock? But here, let me tell you who

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Speaker 1: she is. You would probably know her as playing the

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Speaker 1: lead role of Veda in My Girl, which came out

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Speaker 1: in Night nine and then it had a prequel. Since then,

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Speaker 1: she's appeared in a number of things. She plays Amy

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Speaker 1: Brookheimer on the HBO television series Veep, which was incredible.

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Speaker 1: She's been on White Collar Law and Order, Special Victims Unit,

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Speaker 1: NBC's adaptation of Hannibal, etcetera, etcetera. Anna is married to

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Speaker 1: American military veteran and business executive Sean So The two

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Speaker 1: have two daughters, Clara and Penny. Thank you for coming

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Speaker 1: on Katie's Curb, Anna, and for being the very first

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Speaker 1: guest of season. Fact, I am so glad that you're

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Speaker 1: on this podcast right now. So Anna Clumsky Night, are

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Speaker 1: on this show called Invintiganax on Netflix. Have you've ever

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Speaker 1: heard of it? The whole story is told through I

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Speaker 1: guess through your character's eyes. Sure, I mean your framework. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm the Yeah, you're so fucking good in

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Speaker 1: this part, and you're so freaking good at all your parts.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, this is like ridiculous. Everyone needs to

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Speaker 1: watch what you do with that's very kind. Oh I

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Speaker 1: hope seriously, Oh my god, I don't see if I

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Speaker 1: don't have to do though. But what I think is

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Speaker 1: so cool is that when you first came on to

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Speaker 1: our first ever table read, and for you Scandal fans

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Speaker 1: listening to this podcast, you know that like our Scandal

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Speaker 1: table reads are like a very famous thing, and the

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Speaker 1: inventing Anta table reads were very similar, and that it

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Speaker 1: was really fun and exciting and like going at it

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Speaker 1: and all this stuff. And I just remember you walking

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Speaker 1: into the table read. You were just like a mom

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Speaker 1: of two and your kids are sort of bigger than mine.

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Speaker 1: What are they a little Yeah, I've got a little

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Speaker 1: bit of head start. Yeah, now minor eight and five.

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Speaker 1: Then it would have been six and three. Yes, So

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Speaker 1: when we were shooting the first time, we were shooting

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Speaker 1: Inventing Anna, because for those of you listening, we shot

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Speaker 1: Inventing in a pre pandemic during pandemic. See if you

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Speaker 1: can stop it too, you can for me and mice

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Speaker 1: after a baby, that's for sure, it's okay, it's fine.

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Speaker 1: Thank God for Shawn Um. And we're saying this because yes,

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Speaker 1: I shot half of the show before I got pregnant

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Speaker 1: with Vera. Then I got pregny with Vera, then I

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Speaker 1: had Vera, and then three months later. The whole Hollywood

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Speaker 1: gets your Body Back is not my story. It's still

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Speaker 1: not my story. She's over a year. I'm like, I'm sorry, guys,

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Speaker 1: we're human beings. Like I know, what I was gonna

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Speaker 1: say was when I saw you and met you, I

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Speaker 1: was like, holy sh it, you're such a full, real

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Speaker 1: person and a mom with a very full life. You

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Speaker 1: come on and you act the ship out of something.

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Speaker 1: But I had this feeling from you, like holy shit,

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Speaker 1: you are very involved in all aspects of being a

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Speaker 1: mom and being a wife and being a caretaker and

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Speaker 1: being an actress and being all the things that you do.

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Speaker 1: I just really looked up to you, and really I

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Speaker 1: and then I started like going down like a Google search,

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Speaker 1: and you really found out about me and you went

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Speaker 1: don't meet your heroes. But then it was like I was,

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Speaker 1: I was looking at you because you were on v

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Speaker 1: and winning Accolade after accolade, all these things, but you

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Speaker 1: were pregnant, you were post baby, pre baby, all these

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Speaker 1: things that it was just very inspiring as an actress

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Speaker 1: to see you rock that ship. Thanks for saying that,

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Speaker 1: because of course we you know, we never think we're

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Speaker 1: rocking anything, and so yes, And I was really fortunate

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Speaker 1: that when I was going through it, Julia Louis Dreyfus

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Speaker 1: was boss, you know, both on screen and off. I mean,

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Speaker 1: she was at the beginning of being able to say,

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Speaker 1: excuse me, I'm going to go ahead and do my

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Speaker 1: job and having my kids. Oh my god, can you

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Speaker 1: even imagine that? Oh yeah, oh yeah, Like she definitely

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Speaker 1: you know, tell me a few stories about that, and

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Speaker 1: had that that perspective, um, so really really valuable, really valuable.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure and I'm sure for you too going through it.

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Speaker 1: Carrie had gone through SA like. Shonda was the person

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Speaker 1: who literally sat me down and said, are you thinking

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Speaker 1: about having a family? And it was like the last

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Speaker 1: season of Scandal, and I said, I'm really thinking about

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Speaker 1: it and she said, well, I just want to let

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Speaker 1: you know that if I were you, I would have

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Speaker 1: it on my watch. And this is then this show

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Speaker 1: is not going to be on forever. And I like

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Speaker 1: went home and I was like, Adam, take off your pants.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, you're like Adam doesn't like to say. Shonda

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Speaker 1: was like in the room, but she was like basically

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Speaker 1: in there. That's amazing. So did you always want to

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Speaker 1: be a mom? Hey? You know, it's funny. I always

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Speaker 1: knew I wanted a family, and I always knew I

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Speaker 1: wanted kids. But when you get into the identity issue

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Speaker 1: of mom, I'll just say, yeah, I didn't know what

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Speaker 1: that was. Like, I didn't know, um, what that could be.

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Speaker 1: I'm in that category of people who, um, I didn't

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Speaker 1: have baby dolls, you know, and I didn't you know,

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Speaker 1: like if I had baby cousins, I enjoyed them my life.

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Speaker 1: I appreciated them, but I was never like, let me

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Speaker 1: hold the baby, right, you were like one of those

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Speaker 1: super maternal teenagers or like I wasn't. And of course

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Speaker 1: that made me nervous when I did start to get

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Speaker 1: to to the images where you're thinking about these things.

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Speaker 1: But that's part of it. And yeah, but I did.

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Speaker 1: I did always know that I would that I wanted

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Speaker 1: a family. I never had that whole like, oh but

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Speaker 1: what if I just, you know, maybe my path is other.

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Speaker 1: I always knew that family was going to be a

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Speaker 1: part of my path. I did too, I didn't even

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Speaker 1: though I tried. I like had one dinner out with

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Speaker 1: three couples who were in their sixties and didn't have kids,

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Speaker 1: and we're living this incredible life. And Adam and I

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Speaker 1: left and we were like, yeah, we sure we're going

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Speaker 1: to do. But it's like this weird guttural feeling I

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Speaker 1: saw like myself later in life, wanting someone to have

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Speaker 1: called me mom. Yeah that's nice, Yeah that's great. You

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Speaker 1: met your husband um Sean Sehn. Yeah, in college Shrieking

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Speaker 1: College in Chicago, University of Chicago. You've been married as

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Speaker 1: of March eight, two thousand eight, and very good. Did

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Speaker 1: you guys make a decision to try to get pregnant.

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Speaker 1: Was it an easy go for you? Did you know

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Speaker 1: when it was time? Yeah, this part of this part

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Speaker 1: of the story is probably like the part of the

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Speaker 1: story where a good percentage of the populace can totally

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Speaker 1: hate me for this because yeah, like it was. But

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Speaker 1: that's such a miracle as people got to bless that's awesome.

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Speaker 1: That's awesome. Yeah, well, you know what we did was

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Speaker 1: I had like that kind of shanna Ish experience too,

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Speaker 1: not with my boss, but I had but with one

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Speaker 1: fellow actress. You don't know, have you even met Julie Halston?

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Speaker 1: Do you know Julie Halston? No, she's amazing. You'll you'll

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Speaker 1: die and look. Yeah, she's she's just the coolest dreaking

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Speaker 1: broad Oh she's a fucking legend. The guy said, Okay,

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Speaker 1: she's a fucking legend. Okay, so what did she say?

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Speaker 1: So she and I were doing this monologue show written

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Speaker 1: by Nora Ephron and her sister Deelia, and um I

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Speaker 1: was married for a couple of years by then, and

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Speaker 1: you know we were we got our first dog, you know,

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Speaker 1: like we got the dog like a gateway drug. Dog

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Speaker 1: is a gateway drug. You can we keep something a

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Speaker 1: lot together. And Julie's me two decades my senior, and

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Speaker 1: so she's like, Conny, do you want to do this?

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, yeah, I want to have the

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Speaker 1: family Sunday. And she's like, I'm going to tell you

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Speaker 1: something and it's not going to be popular. Don't wait

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Speaker 1: because if you wait and you can't get it done,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be really expensive. Yeah. Wow, that's that's

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Speaker 1: not wrong, not wrong. And and she's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: anybody who waits for their career, like your career is

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Speaker 1: never going to feel ready. What's ready? Your career is

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Speaker 1: never going to feel done or like at that right?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, you're right. And so that happened. And

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Speaker 1: then I did a job. I did a date, not

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Speaker 1: a day play, a recurring on this show, um to

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Speaker 1: her white collar Oh yeah, hottest dudever. What's his name?

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Speaker 1: Oh jeez, that guy's hot as health. Yes, okay, but

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Speaker 1: we had the woman doing my makeup, mad job. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what we were talking about, but she kind

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Speaker 1: of felt like it felt like out of the blue.

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Speaker 1: She's like, do you want a family to my kids?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, I'm thinking about it was

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Speaker 1: some day She's like, don't wait. I was like, whoa,

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Speaker 1: I just I just got that message like last week,

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Speaker 1: and now I'm getting it from you. You know. It

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Speaker 1: was one of those so like Sean and I were

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Speaker 1: driving to Miami from New York for fun Adorable. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think you were listening to my We pulled over

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Speaker 1: and made llobe jone. How I see what this podcast

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Speaker 1: is about? Yeah, I guess it must have been thirty

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Speaker 1: one when I said this. So I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: I've been on birth control since I was sixteen, so

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Speaker 1: I suppose it would be nice to not be on

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Speaker 1: birth control more than half of my life. I guess.

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Speaker 1: I guess we'll pull the goalie at thirty two. That's

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Speaker 1: that's how he did. How was pregnancy for you? Easy? Hard? Um,

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Speaker 1: relatively easy? I mean obviously emotionally, but yeah, like I

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Speaker 1: didn't have morning sickness my second I had like a

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Speaker 1: low level nausea for the first trimester, but nothing ever

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Speaker 1: to write home about whatsoever. And I never you know,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't morning sickness. I never had a morning sickness.

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Speaker 1: It's so great to hear because honestly, like I know,

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, god, everyone everything went easy and sort

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Speaker 1: of like lovely. But that's also very good to hear

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Speaker 1: because we do a lot of podcasts about people struggling

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Speaker 1: and having a hard time, and there's also a lot

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Speaker 1: of podcasts where people were like it was great, Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: my heart, my hard time was and I think you

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Speaker 1: know about this. My hard time was postpart yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So did you have postpartum depression with the first or

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Speaker 1: the second or both? And what did it look like

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Speaker 1: for you? Definitely first and then second. By then I

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Speaker 1: already had my therapist, I already knew kind of what

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Speaker 1: to look for. But it was I'll tell you, it

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Speaker 1: was more of an identity crisis, which, hello, I'm still

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Speaker 1: going through. Oh my god. I mean I think that's

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Speaker 1: going to just be forever. It's just midlife, honey. Did

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Speaker 1: you think it was an identity crisis to be a mom,

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Speaker 1: to be an actor? I thought it was. Know what

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Speaker 1: it was is because I knew I was done. I

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Speaker 1: knew I was done making them. The depressive thought was

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Speaker 1: basically like, well, if this is the peak, it like

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Speaker 1: it's all down here for me, Like there's that There

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Speaker 1: was just that sense that anybody who has chosen not

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Speaker 1: to have children would listen to that and be like,

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Speaker 1: oh you are you are nuts, Like, of course that's

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Speaker 1: not all there is, right, but when you've done the

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Speaker 1: labor thing, it just felt like a lot of now,

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Speaker 1: what how was your first labor um, first labor what? Well?

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Speaker 1: So I was induced both times. I was induced primarily

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Speaker 1: because my uters just quits it thirty six weeks. Whoa,

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Speaker 1: how do they know what comes back? Where they're like

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Speaker 1: we out ulso sown ultra done in weight check. So

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Speaker 1: they just like stopped growing and you're placenta sort of

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Speaker 1: poops out. Well it's not even that they call it

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Speaker 1: failure to thrive, but that's like a scary thing. But

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Speaker 1: that's you know, the kid hasn't grown from three six

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Speaker 1: to thirty eight, so your wombs not doing or anything

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Speaker 1: verres at this point, let's get her out. The first

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Speaker 1: time that happens, you got interesting, you know, a little

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Speaker 1: scary interesting. All these beautiful things labors really, you know,

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Speaker 1: we all have these gorgeous I mean not a gorgeous

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Speaker 1: but like the event of labor stories and birth stories.

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Speaker 1: So I had a miscarriage in between, and there's that

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Speaker 1: feeling when you have a miscarriage where you're like, I'm

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Speaker 1: never gonna stop trying. I'm just gonna try until night,

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Speaker 1: until everything's dried up, and then second, you know. With

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Speaker 1: my second pregnancy, it was a hard one. It was

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Speaker 1: I carried very low. I had to wear a belt

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Speaker 1: like from like four months. Like it was like crazy.

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Speaker 1: But but yeah, but it's um anyway, so we already.

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Speaker 1: But so I went in and then there was one

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Speaker 1: of these ultrasounds. I was thirty eight weeks sure enough,

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Speaker 1: Like the ultrasound was a long. I'm gonna check with

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Speaker 1: the doctor and she comes back and and I was like,

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Speaker 1: this has taken a while, and they're like, so she

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Speaker 1: hasn't grown since thirty six weeks, so we're gonna induce tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: I remember using the restroom and sort of set a

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Speaker 1: prayer to my eaters because I do that, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I hear you, you're done. If we can get through

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Speaker 1: this together, then I'll let you rest. I have such

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Speaker 1: goose bumps about that. Thank you. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: that's how I put it. The only other person there

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Speaker 1: is my uterus. Yeah, but like I tell people that

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Speaker 1: all the time. I used to speak to my uterus

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Speaker 1: and like vagina all the time during both of my pregnancies,

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Speaker 1: where I like, we're going to get through this together.

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Speaker 1: That always helped me to to sort of personify and

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Speaker 1: pray in a way. Some people don't like saying it's

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Speaker 1: a miracle because it happens every day, and I get that.

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Speaker 1: But you go into a room and is two, you

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Speaker 1: come out is three, Like that's what happens. That is wild.

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Speaker 1: I remember after having the baby, I was just like,

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Speaker 1: I'm this, this happened here, and I'm so grateful, just

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Speaker 1: so grateful. Is so crazy labor, No one knows how

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Speaker 1: it's gonna go. Yeah, it's like it's honestly, it's not

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Speaker 1: about you. Yes, you're doing it and that's so about you,

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Speaker 1: But like this, the thing that's happening is is a

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Speaker 1: divine thing that is that is up to that kid

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Speaker 1: and that differently whatever we call it. Yeah, I'm so

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Speaker 1: with you on that. Okay, So you're postpartum depression since

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Speaker 1: it was worse with Penelope? Did she she goes by

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Speaker 1: Penny right, Yeah, yeah, you so your postpart pression with

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Speaker 1: Penny did it did it present itself as more anxious

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Speaker 1: and panic attacks or did it present itself as like

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Speaker 1: a depressing like get out of bed, okay, obsessive thoughts,

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Speaker 1: that's mine. Yeah, once you go in and you do

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Speaker 1: the scale and you're like, oh, and how many days

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Speaker 1: out of fourteen have you cried? And how many days

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Speaker 1: out of fourteen could you not handle? It? Be like

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Speaker 1: four four but those days were off. I didn't medicate,

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Speaker 1: it was done just through talk therapy. Um, so great, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is great. But I so understand and as well

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Speaker 1: that sometimes the spectrum like it is a spectrum and

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Speaker 1: what this is what I don't like. I want that

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Speaker 1: language to change from if to when, because I think

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Speaker 1: that the if gives these high achieving moms like myself

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Speaker 1: and I think you too, the possibly this concept of

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Speaker 1: like oh I have such grace for those who have

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Speaker 1: gone through it, but but but maybe I'll avoid it,

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Speaker 1: meaning it won't happen to me. Oh. I was still like,

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Speaker 1: have you met me? I'm a very stable person. I've

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Speaker 1: never dealt with depression in my whole life, Like this

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Speaker 1: is not me. And then I started having obsessive thoughts

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Speaker 1: also that were very dark about my son and it's

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Speaker 1: switched on too hit the worst movie so talk Therapy

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Speaker 1: was hugely helpful to you, and your biggest advice to

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Speaker 1: yourself the second go around was that all of those

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Speaker 1: things were in place. Yeah. I have one of those

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Speaker 1: therapists who like, we'll let you graduate sometimes and then

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Speaker 1: she's like, but call me for a tune up, you know,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, I gotta do. Um. But then I did,

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Speaker 1: and I see her very regularly now um, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's um. Yeah. For me, it was the obsessive thoughts.

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Speaker 1: It feels like in Clockwork Orange when like they when

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Speaker 1: your eyes are being controlled and you have to see

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Speaker 1: the worst movie over and over and over again. I

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Speaker 1: also have PMDD what's that, premstrual dysphoric disorders, So it's

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Speaker 1: like it's basically just like PMS on you know more.

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Speaker 1: That sounds horrible. Well, the reason I figured it out

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00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,920
Speaker 1: was because, you know again, I was on birth control

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Speaker 1: for my whole life, basically sixteen years for my whole

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Speaker 1: men's treating life. Right then I'm having babies, so your

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00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,639
Speaker 1: hormones are cuckoo pants and so then I actually had

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Speaker 1: to get to know my actual cycle for the first

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Speaker 1: time since you were sixteen, which is like that wasn't

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Speaker 1: even so then you turn out you start getting real,

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Speaker 1: real flow periods that aren't like on hormone and you're like,

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Speaker 1: holy sh it. Yeah. So then I there was like

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Speaker 1: more like p MS times, which I always had it,

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Speaker 1: but like where it felt like like the post part

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Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, okay, sense though all the

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Speaker 1: sense in the world. Then it was like, okay, let's

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Speaker 1: tell me acupuncturists and let's get all the herb you know,

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00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,159
Speaker 1: let's get the Chinese herbs and let's do you know.

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Speaker 1: Then it was let's find homeostasis for you. This is

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Speaker 1: the thing with like any kind of herbal healing is

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Speaker 1: like you know, you want to come to a place

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Speaker 1: of homeostasis, and so you have to watch it for

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Speaker 1: like maybe three months and you just have to observed

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Speaker 1: and that faith that like you're helping your body, you know,

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Speaker 1: with with this well being, because yeah, like basically the

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Speaker 1: chemical change with the hormones, that's the destabilizing part that

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Speaker 1: makes I'm learning so much because I just got my

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Speaker 1: like third period and I am not a period in

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Speaker 1: two and half years, because I am still breastfeeding, and

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Speaker 1: I I know, I don't know why I'm doing this.

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Speaker 1: This is the plan. I don't know, it's very weird.

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Speaker 1: She's my second and this is it it? Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't know what it is. Um. I thought I would

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Speaker 1: quit it a year, and then um, I was like,

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Speaker 1: you know what for inventing Anna? When we all go

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Speaker 1: to New York and we do this big, fancy premiere

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Speaker 1: and all this stuff, and then oh macrown and now

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Speaker 1: I'm home and so I'm like, Okay, well, I guess

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to wean for that because I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not pumping in New York. I'm not pumping in

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Speaker 1: New York. But now we're not going I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to New York. So I don't know what I'm doing

385
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 1: on that, but um, stay tuned. I want to hear

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Speaker 1: all about yours too, and I just you know, my god,

387
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Speaker 1: I'll tell you. I haven't got to ask you about

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Speaker 1: number two at all. Oh my god, it was so great.

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Speaker 1: My pregnancy was well, no, it was awful, and that

390
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Speaker 1: I had the worst. I mean, my labor was a joke.

391
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Speaker 1: I had harder. I've had harder workout classes like I meant,

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Speaker 1: and I pulled her out myself. It was great. My

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Speaker 1: postpartum depression was awful after number two or number. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I had to go on medication. I've never been on

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Speaker 1: medication before. I've been in therapy for a hundred years,

396
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 1: but like it reached a level of I mean I

397
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 1: was having rolling panic attacks all day every day for

398
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Speaker 1: six weeks. And yeah, but I feel great now. I

399
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,880
Speaker 1: feel so lucky because I do think parenting a four

400
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Speaker 1: year old and a one year old during these circumstances

401
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 1: has been very, very challenging. I have a very physically

402
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 1: active son, and um, it's just been isolating at times,

403
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,640
Speaker 1: frustrating at times, scary at times. And I have to say,

404
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 1: just like being on an anti anxiety medication has made

405
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 1: me a better mom able to show up. That's because

406
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Speaker 1: I mean, I've never had more moms text me about

407
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Speaker 1: them being stressed out. I was having an eight year

408
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 1: old at a five year old. Right now, I feel

409
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Speaker 1: really lucky. I love my school. I love the school.

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Speaker 1: You know we're in public school. Is this the same

411
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: school they were going to? And they've been amazing, amazing,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm so grateful. Tell me what the qualities are

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Speaker 1: that make it so great? As I'm sitting here looking

414
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Speaker 1: in elementary schools for my son, you know, um, they

415
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Speaker 1: love it, they care about it. With public schools, I

416
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: don't know how it is in California, but in New

417
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: York there are a lot of programs available. It's really

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Speaker 1: about researching the principle and knowing what they're about and

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Speaker 1: hearing what they have to say and seeing if the

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Speaker 1: gibes with what you did. We knew that this school

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Speaker 1: was good, so we actually, like, my god, our place

422
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: because of this zone. You're like, I need to find

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Speaker 1: a place to live so that they can go to

424
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: the school. Yeah, we were zoned for this. Anyway, Are

425
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: your girls um in personality similar? Drastically different? Not that

426
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 1: those are the only options. They dig each other. They're

427
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 1: really great. A means oh really yeah, and I think

428
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: you're a room ever since they can remember. I mean,

429
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: what's even most fun is lately just just about like

430
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: six months ago, we finally finally took the monitor out

431
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: because I was like, they need some privacy. I think

432
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: this is ridiculous. Oh how freaking cute. Okay, and then

433
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: the younger. So we have Penelope Joan is your oldest,

434
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 1: and we have Clara ELIZABETHA. Clara Elizabeth is your second ye.

435
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 1: But they're different, it's different. Tell me have your girls

436
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 1: seen my girl? No? Not yet. Now do you tell

437
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: them you're an actor? Yes? In fact, they just got

438
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: into rug grads, which is really sweet. And I actually,

439
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 1: I am really happy that it's happening this way because

440
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 1: for me it's really helpful. Um, that they're seeing me

441
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: do or they're hearing me do a job that I've

442
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 1: chosen to do myself, that I have a craft behind,

443
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: that I'm a grown up and this is my actual living.

444
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: We could do a other talk about childhood performance. Um.

445
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 1: This is one of my sopapboxes these days, because the

446
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 1: world is so trauma aware, and yet we still are

447
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: pretending that the psyches of child performers and I mean athletes, catalogs,

448
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: I mean kids who don't book. It can't even I

449
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: can't even imagine it. I can't even imagine what you

450
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 1: have been. I can't even imagined. Thank you. Yeah. And

451
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say like it was a really bad

452
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,959
Speaker 1: week for me, not for anybody else. Everybody else has

453
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,719
Speaker 1: their own life. Right When one of my eldest daughter's

454
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 1: friends started to be I saw my girl, you know,

455
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: like on the playground, and I just was like, like

456
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: I just I went into find it completely and I

457
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,239
Speaker 1: was trying to but I'm also like all I am

458
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 1: is the mom to them, so I'm also have to

459
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: be really responsible and being like oh thank you, and

460
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: you know, but it was like it was a bad

461
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: week and how are they supposed to understand that? Yeah? No,

462
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,239
Speaker 1: and and you know, mom, where can we watch it yet?

463
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: And I like you hands sometime, I just I need

464
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: to be ready. I need to think about some things

465
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: with therapy. I thought, you know, I had to think

466
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: about these things very much because I can't. I'm not

467
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 1: gonna be something who's gonna avoid it or like you know,

468
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: like you know, like life has to unfold as it does.

469
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 1: And I am proud of being an hector now you know. Um,

470
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: but like you said, when you were an adult and

471
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 1: you chose it, like you were also a child performer

472
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: and a child star, and then you left the business,

473
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: you went to college, you studied something else, you came

474
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: back to it. Full circle is a choose that you

475
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: made exactly, and they're a huge two different careers completely

476
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: and I had to go why why when I scared? Up? Right?

477
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: When am I scared? I haven't? And the bottom light

478
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: is I think most people who have gone through something

479
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: like this can speak to this. Some people have been

480
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 1: writing some great out eds about it. Marra Wilson wrote

481
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: one and Amber tam Wan wrote one, and I'm so

482
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: proud of them. And but basically, when that happened, my

483
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: entire family and friends and anybody had ever met completely changed,

484
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: completely changed. I didn't know anybody anymore. Um, anywhere you went,

485
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 1: if you just went to Christmas, you were there to

486
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 1: take pictures with people so that that you could be proven,

487
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: you know, like you just know. It was. It's a

488
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 1: weird version of like just losing everything you knew. And

489
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: so it made me realize, like, oh my god, I'm

490
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 1: terrified that my daughter will see me different, you know.

491
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 1: And like the bottom line is she will anyway, because

492
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: she's and she's gonna be nine and then she's gonna

493
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: be tent like she's gonna be different no matter what. Right,

494
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 1: But um, but I had to go through that. I

495
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,239
Speaker 1: had to I had to do the self inquiry to go,

496
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: what what is this about? Otherwise we're just reacting? Right,

497
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 1: It's the um Alice Miller book, The John with the

498
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: Gifted Child, right, like if we're not aware that like

499
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: this stuff is mine and not that there's which was

500
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 1: why You're great, because you were like, well, first, what

501
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: I realized was that I was I'm scared. Yeah, I'm scared.

502
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,719
Speaker 1: It's you. Yeah. Yeah. Do they get screens? Do they

503
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: get no screens? I know you are not a social

504
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: media person. We have a two and a half our

505
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: screen time limit every day, and that's both iPads and TV. Really,

506
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: I kind of just keep track of it in twenty

507
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: mien in ingruents. If it's practicing music or whatever, or

508
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 1: if it's doing like homework, it doesn't count to the

509
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: two and a half, but we still need a screen break.

510
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: I'm not a social media person. That doesn't mean that

511
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna like forbid it for them someday, but I

512
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: am very much like listen, the Internet is basically of

513
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: portal to the rest of the world. Do you feel

514
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: like you're ready for me to just let you walk

515
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: out the door and meet somebody that you've never met

516
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: in Queens? No, mommy, no, Like, you don't know how

517
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: to get there, you don't have a way of getting

518
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: in touch with me, you don't know how to drive right.

519
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: And then she's like no, no, no, and I'm like

520
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: that's how you have to look at the Internet. So yeah,

521
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: there's a lot of just like three day little like

522
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: let's be careful, you know, because it's a very slippery slope. Yes,

523
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: And I also, you know, I was like in that

524
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: same vein of what we were talking about, like before,

525
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: as a child performer the week the Internet was like invented.

526
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: The week that they invented, like brought you into school

527
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: and they like built a computer lab and taught you

528
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: how to like type alta vista. I google myself and

529
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: the first thing that shows up is that I mean

530
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: this is my fourteen right, that I have a baby,

531
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: that I have a nose job. God, my first experience

532
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: with the Internet at all was being lied about. I

533
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: gotta tell you, in this day and age, what a gift.

534
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: I've never had the concept that like, well I read

535
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: it on the Internet, so it's got to be true.

536
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: It's right. The fact that you've always been like everyone

537
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: better checked their sources. Yeah that's because you read it,

538
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's true. That's never been a question to me,

539
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: like the internet has never been come on. But yes,

540
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: eyes just eyes like everything, you know, same thing, candy.

541
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: You can have a piece oh yeah. I gave my

542
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: son like a mini Snickers bar, which he calls a

543
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: sneakers bar. You know, at craft services there's all that crap,

544
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: and I don't have that really in my house. I'll

545
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: give him like the healthy version, like Justin's a butter bar.

546
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: But I came home the other night and I was like,

547
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: I have something a sneaker, a sneakers bar, and he

548
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: was like out of his mind. Would you travel with

549
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: them when you were shooting veep or they would stay

550
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: at home? Deep we always found somebody in the location. Um,

551
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: when I had the kids with when I had the

552
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: girls with me, but then once they got old enough

553
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: to be in school, I was the only one traveling,

554
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: which is still hard. I haven't done that yet. Talked

555
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: to me about the longest I've been away, and I

556
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: don't reckon it's not fun. But the longest I've been

557
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: in a way is two weeks Germany, which we did

558
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: for an Adelby. That was my my my longest having

559
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: been away. That was a that is a profound trip

560
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: just because of all things involved. Plus like your sequestor

561
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: didn't like the most gorgeous hotel like in Berlin looking

562
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: upon you know, history. How do you split responsibilities with

563
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: your husband? It's very very fifty fifty. I know. It's

564
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: like I don't know if if saying sinks in to

565
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: anybody in or Sean's really into, really really into being

566
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: a dad, Like he's really good at it, and um,

567
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: we basically find the stuff we're good at. Like going

568
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: to the grocery store stresses me out. It has to

569
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: be his favorite thing of the day, right, so like, great,

570
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: he gets the groceries. I cook them. So you guys

571
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: know your lanes and you stick sort of. Yeah, that's

572
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: pretty much, you know, and they work out and if

573
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: they don't work out that way, then you figure out

574
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: and you talk, you know, like getting up in the morning.

575
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: We I mean we do. We do it every other day.

576
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,719
Speaker 1: Oh you do? That's so great. And if it's not,

577
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: like if like sometimes he'll go on an early hike

578
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: or something like that, and then it is me waking

579
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: them up there like where's daddy, and I'm like, well,

580
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: because they know it's his day. Oh that's so great.

581
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna convince you right now. I do. So I'm

582
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: the morning person, Adams the night person. So I do

583
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: mornings because that's my strongest, and it's a hardcore downhill

584
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: from there. And Adam loves nights and it is a

585
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: night owl when I'm like dying, He's really coming in

586
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: strong for books in bedtime and baths and getting them dressed.

587
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: And I'm really coming in strong with breakfast and vitamins

588
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: and getting out the door and packing your lunches and

589
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: like whatever. It's still dividing it. You know, it's yes,

590
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: and plan to your strengths. I think plan to your

591
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: strengths work. And also something I will say and I've

592
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: always I really loved we do we are date night? Like,

593
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: help me, We're fucked? When do you do it? When

594
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: we well, we do have Wednesdays, but sometimes because we

595
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: book sitters. That's always part of it. That's just always

596
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: part of it. I gotta get everyone listening, hold me

597
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: to it. I gotta go on a date night. Adam

598
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: Shapiro and I have not seen each other so lowly

599
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: in a odd awful long time. And then we'll have

600
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: like special occasions where like once every few months you'll

601
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: do something wonderful, but like that's not work. Event work

602
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: event does knot count to date night because you're on

603
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: and you're freaked out. Yeah, it's a totally different feel.

604
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: Finish this sentence. Parenthood is is the third first thing

605
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: I was going to say. The pause was me going

606
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: to I S privilege. The gift was the first thing.

607
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: I think that that's sort of been like thematically the

608
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: word of this episode. I I just think you like

609
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: you've had some really lovely thankfully you know, knock on WITHO,

610
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: like awesome gifts like just that. It's really great and

611
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: inspiring for people who are listening because there's a lot

612
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: of hardship out there. And that's not to say that

613
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: you haven't had a hard No, obviously you have, but

614
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: it's been in different areas of your life, not necessarily

615
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: the labor space or the right Yeah, and like I

616
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: was on oxygen and labor and stuff. But you know,

617
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: like you could, you could build a stressful story, but

618
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: I just I fail to see it that way. The

619
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: bad days are bad days. But I honestly the bottom

620
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: line is just thank God therapy. So that's the theme. Okay,

621
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: it's a gift and the gift of therapy and that

622
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: and here he got in alb do you remember here?

623
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 1: I know because she's talking to me. I know because

624
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 1: we actually have to go have dinner. Oh wait, look wait,

625
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: she wants to have her here. How did you guys

626
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: all get in here? Where's daddy? This is yes? Oh gosh,

627
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: everyone's going. Everyone listening. Vera did not exist when Anna

628
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: Glumpsey and I were shooting U. This is what you

629
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: can come down of February limit on screaming. It's on Netflix.

630
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Thank you Anna so so much for

631
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: coming on Katie's Crib. And thank you guys for listening

632
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: to Katie's Crib. And I want to hear from you

633
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: as we continue with season five. What do you want

634
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 1: to talk about? Who do you want me to bring

635
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: on the show. Do you questions, comments, concerns, thoughts, ideas.

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Speaker 1: I want to hear from you. You can always get

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Speaker 1: me up at Katie's Grib at Shawonda land dot com.

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Speaker 1: Katie's Crib is a production of Shanda land Audio in

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Speaker 1: partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shanda

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Speaker 1: land Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.