1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: In August nineteen eighty six, Stephen Bell decides to check 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: his mailbox. He walks over, opens it and begins sorting 3 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: through pizzaflyers, bills and letters, junk, junk, and more junk. 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: One envelope, though, catches his eye. It has a return 5 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: address from Atari Holdings Incorporated, out of New York. Stephen 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: thinks this is a little strange for one. Atari's headquarters 7 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: are in Sunnyvale, California. That's where he'd become the first 8 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: ever winner in their sword Quest contest. The prize for 9 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: racing through the first game in record time was a 10 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 1: talisman worth twenty five thousand dollars. He hadn't won the 11 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: second game, but had kept busy trying to solve the 12 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: third water World. The second strange thing was that he 13 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: hadn't heard anything about the contest in the past two years. 14 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: Nothing official anyway. Stephen opens the envelope, think, King, he's 15 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: going to get word on whether he qualified for the 16 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: water World contest, which has been delayed over and over again. Instead, 17 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: the letter informs him of something else. It's not an invitation, 18 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,759 Speaker 1: but an offer. Here's Stephen, they. 19 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 2: Just wanted to end it, and here's some money. They 20 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 2: offered Mike and I fifteen thousand. 21 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: It's a kind of settlement offer. Atari is canceling the contest, 22 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: all of it, and they're offering Stephen and fellow winner 23 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: Michael rideout fifteen thousand dollars to not compete, to give 24 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,919 Speaker 1: up any legal claim to having been denied a chance 25 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: at winning the sword Quest contest and the Sword of 26 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: Ultimate Sorcery, which is worth fifty thousand dollars. The talisman 27 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: was already gone, having been sold by Stephen to buy 28 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: a defective Pontiac Fieriro, a model that had the annoying 29 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: habit of catching fire. Now he could take a guaranteed 30 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars or take a one in four chance 31 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: of getting the fifty thousand dollars sword, and maybe even 32 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: one or both of the other prizes, which are valued 33 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: at twenty five thousand dollars each. This was like one 34 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: of the puzzles in the game, objects constantly being shifted 35 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: and sorted from room to room. Stephen stands outside his 36 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: apartment on the outskirts of Detroit, a dwindling hub of 37 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: jobs lost to a sagging American automotive market. The money 38 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: was more than he'd make in a year, but the 39 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: sword and its bejeweled handle is calling to him. Stephen 40 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: isn't sure what to do, and then the letter mentions 41 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: something else. 42 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 2: The letter stated it had to be unanimous or they 43 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:51,799 Speaker 2: would actually continue the contest. 44 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: Two sword Quest games had been played and there were 45 00:02:55,919 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: two winners, Stephen and Michael, the winner of Firewars World. 46 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 1: Both would have to agree in order to get the money. 47 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: The problem. This was nineteen eighty six, and neither one 48 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: had the other's phone number for iHeartRadio. This is the 49 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: Legend of sword Quest. I'm your host, Jamie Loftus and 50 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: this is episode four, Descent into Darkness. Water World, the 51 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: third game in the sword Quest saga, was released in 52 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 1: October nineteen eighty three. The winner was due the Crown 53 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: of Life, a headpiece made of solid gold and adorned 54 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: with diamonds, sapphires, and rubies. It came with a cash 55 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: value of twenty five thousand dollars, assuming the victor would 56 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: ever want to part with it. The in person contest 57 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: for the crown was planned for nineteen eighty four, but 58 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: early on there were signs that something was well off 59 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: about the promotion. Unlike the other games in the sword 60 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: Quest series. Water World War wasn't sold in stores. You 61 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: couldn't just go into a J. C. Penny or Toys 62 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: r Us and grab the game from a cashier with 63 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: your hot little hands. You had to be a member 64 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: of the Atari Age Fan Club and send away for 65 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: the game. It was weird. 66 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 3: I think at the time it never even occurred to me. 67 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,559 Speaker 3: We saw it in the newsletter and ended up again 68 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 3: being able to get our hands on it, but we 69 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 3: didn't really stop to think that it wasn't in the stores. 70 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 3: At the time. We were living in a small town 71 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 3: that I don't think there were any video game sales, 72 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 3: like any stores that sold them, so at the time 73 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 3: it meant going into the bigger town, which wasn't far away, 74 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 3: mind you. But we didn't do it a lot, so 75 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 3: I think we weren't keeping track of what was on 76 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 3: the store shelves as well, especially once we realized we 77 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 3: could mail order some of these things. So yeah, for 78 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 3: water World, we ended up getting it through the game club. 79 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: That's Russ Perry Junior. Back in nineteen eighty two, US 80 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: was about fourteen years old, living in Illinois and a 81 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: devout sword Quest player, A quester a sword head, whatever 82 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: you want to call it. He was obsessed with winning 83 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: actual prizes. 84 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, definitely. I mean there's always things like just 85 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 3: you know, solving the game and having bragging rights, but like, yeah, 86 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 3: actually winning something like that, Oh yeah, that would have 87 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 3: been awesome. 88 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: When the first sword Quest game, Earth World came out, 89 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: Russ and his brother grabbed it. 90 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 3: We loved that game when these sort of seemed on 91 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 3: the surface like they were going to be sort of 92 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 3: a continuation of that. So yeah, we got the game 93 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 3: as soon as we could, and then immediately started pressing 94 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 3: on it. 95 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: Russ tried to solve the first two games, but they 96 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: were both difficult. 97 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 3: So well, we didn't win the first one, Let's go 98 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 3: see if we can do the second one. And the 99 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 3: second one seemed like it was a little bit easier, 100 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 3: but it was still as eech and we still couldn't 101 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 3: find an obvious pattern. And I think we ended up 102 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 3: finding like maybe six of the clues legitimately, but again 103 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 3: it was mostly coming down to the comic book that 104 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 3: we found the words in the comic books and were 105 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 3: able to enter, and I think again we only got 106 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 3: three or four or maybe we got all five, but 107 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 3: the order was wrong or something. But so once again, yeah, 108 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 3: we were just that close and didn't quite make it. 109 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: But like a lot of gamers, Russ wasn't discouraged. Gaming 110 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: is a hobby of getting your reps in, and so 111 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: Russ dutifully sent in his thirty one dollars and ninety 112 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 1: five cents for a copy of water World. Four to 113 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: six weeks later, he got the game, and this time 114 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: there was something of a surprise. The game was accompanied 115 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: by a hint book, which guided players on strategies to 116 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: find clues in the game. Water World was based on 117 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: the chakra, the ancient spiritual theory of energy points in 118 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: the body. Knowing how that was laid out would help 119 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: you navigate the different rooms. Russ, however, was not versed 120 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,559 Speaker 1: in Hinduism or Buddhism, so he just kept his eyes 121 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: glued to the screen and hoped for the best. 122 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 3: It was definitely easier, and I don't remember if we 123 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 3: ended up finding all the clues or just the majority 124 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 3: of them, but it was clearly easier. We found more 125 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 3: clues and it didn't take us as long. If I remember, 126 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 3: the map was a little bit smaller too. I'm trying 127 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 3: to remember that was based on was it And it 128 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 3: was like eight rooms total, I guess, and I don't 129 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 3: remember exactly how they were connected, if it was a 130 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 3: ring or a grid. But it didn't seem as hard 131 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 3: even I think some of the challenges that you have 132 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 3: to go through in certain rooms, I don't think they 133 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 3: were necessarily as hard. 134 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: The comic was also of some help. Included in the package. 135 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: It told the continuing story of Tor and Tara, the 136 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: twins opposing King Tyrannus and searching for the objects that 137 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: will help lead them to the sword that can bring 138 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: Tyrannus down. In the third issue, they're forced to brave 139 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: the open seas. 140 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 4: He didn't come up. That means, even though it's cold 141 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,679 Speaker 4: enough up here to make icicles out of a dragon's breadth, 142 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 4: I've got to go back after him. Wait, something ascending 143 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 4: from below. No, oh god, he's dead dead. 144 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: Actually, Tour's fine, he's fine. He found a mask that 145 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: allows him to breathe underwater, and the twins are successful 146 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: in capturing the crown, which brings them one step closer 147 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: to the sword, just like the people playing the game. Finally, 148 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: Russ thought he had the solution. He wrote it down, 149 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: sent it in and waited. In May nineteen eighty four, 150 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: he got a response, and it was good news. The 151 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: solution he provided had been correct, but just as before, 152 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,599 Speaker 1: there were too many winners, way too many. For the 153 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: last game, Atari had seventy three people with the right answer, 154 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: but only wanted to have fifty playing in the finals. 155 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: This time, the company needed to narrow it down even further, 156 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: from forty five contestants to just ten, so they asked 157 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: Russ to write an essay about why he liked the game. 158 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: Russ did. He wrote it down, sent it in, and waited. 159 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's always that combination of excited, but oh god, 160 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 3: there's more. You know, we might not make this, even 161 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 3: though we did all the work and I got it 162 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 3: right this time. I think in our heads we knew 163 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 3: that it was it was a little bit easier than 164 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 3: the other ones, so I think we kind of assumed 165 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 3: there'd be more entrants that got it right. And again, 166 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 3: I don't think we had figured out yet that it 167 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 3: was only available to a smaller group of people. 168 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: Russ kept waiting. He turned fifth, and then sixteen. He 169 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: had gotten his learner's permit, and the time Atari was 170 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 1: taking to address the contest his voice was getting deeper 171 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 1: in the time Atari was taking to address the contest. 172 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: Maybe Russ would get married and have children before Atari 173 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: wrote him back about this contest. 174 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 3: And it did seem like with water World, things got 175 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 3: really quiet, and it was Earth's World and Fireworld. We 176 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 3: knew we hadn't won, we weren't going to make the 177 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 3: final playoff, but then when the playoffs occurred, there'd be 178 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 3: coverage in Atari page and other things, so at least 179 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 3: we got closure on those water World it did kind 180 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:39,439 Speaker 3: of feel like, well, there's no closure here. 181 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 5: What happened? 182 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 1: And then finally he got a response. It came in 183 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five. It was from Atari's marketing firm, Amern 184 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: Marketing Associates, and it began, dear mister Perry, Atari was 185 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: sold to new owners last summer. Russ must have gotten 186 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: a kick out of that, mister Perry. It went on 187 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:06,079 Speaker 1: to say, a very conscientious and industrious attorney for Atari 188 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 1: has the matter in hand now, and I wish there 189 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: was more we could tell you. For us, it amounted 190 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: to the same thing. The chances of a water World 191 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: contest were looking grim when sword Quest began. Atari had 192 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: been on top of the entertainment world. But in nineteen 193 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: eighty four things had changed considerably. Sales had slowed, the 194 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: stock of parent company Warner had dropped like a rock, 195 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: and the company had gone from a Silicon Valley sensation 196 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 1: too well something else. 197 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 3: I kept up with the video game magazines as much 198 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 3: as possible, and it was clear between some of the 199 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 3: articles we were seeing and just the times you do 200 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 3: get to the store, there's a lot more cartridges unclearance. 201 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 3: You realized there's definitely something going on. 202 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: Russ didn't know what that something was, but he was 203 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: about to find out. In the summer of twenty twenty two, 204 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: the parent company of Warner Brothers, Warner Brothers Discovery, made 205 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: headlines when they wound up shelving an entire movie, Batgirl, 206 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 1: which was already done filming. They figured it saved them 207 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: more to keep it tucked away than to distribute it. 208 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: It's not often major movies with Michael Keaton and Brendan 209 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: Fraser are just locked up, but Warner did it, and 210 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: then they did it again in twenty twenty three, and 211 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: it wasn't the first time they had made a drastic 212 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: move to please shareholders. In nineteen eighty four, it's safe 213 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: to say Atari was no longer the star of Warner Communications. 214 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: Instead of posting record profits, the company was losing tens 215 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: of millions of dollars a quarter. Atari went from expecting 216 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: to see revenue rise by fifty percent to seeing it 217 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: expected to increase only ten to fifty teen percent. One 218 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: of the bigger problems is that there were more systems available, 219 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 1: like Kaliko Vision, which had gotten off to a slow 220 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: start but exploded once Nintendo's arcade hit Donkey Kong arrived 221 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: on the system. It was the killer app before there 222 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: was such a term as killer app. Everyone loved Donkey 223 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: Kong from playing it in the arcades, but if they 224 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: wanted to play it at home, they had to buy 225 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 1: a Kaliko Vision, which had an exclusive on the game. 226 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: Early on. 227 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 6: Kaliko Vision, I'll never forget I was sitting at a 228 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 6: meeting at Atari when the first colcos hit the street. 229 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 6: So they went out and bought one, and they walked 230 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 6: into the conference room and they took it out of 231 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 6: the box, and they opened it up and they looked 232 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 6: at it, and the engineers looked at it and said, 233 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 6: it hit clearing a piece of shit. 234 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: That's many Gerard Manny was a top executive at Warner 235 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: who led the charge to buy Atari in nineteen seventy six. 236 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: Manny is ninety now and he sees Atari's downfall as 237 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: one built partially from arrogance. Atari had the opportunity to 238 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: get Donkey Kong all to themselves, but they didn't. 239 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 7: It was there. 240 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 6: Having another competitor is not good, but it never had 241 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 6: me reallyver. What it had was Donkey kar And when 242 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 6: I went into Kazar, who ran the company, I said, 243 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 6: we knew how good Donkey car. We had the most 244 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 6: arrogant programmers in the world in the coin oup division, 245 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 6: and they were telling us this is one of the 246 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 6: great games of all time. Why did you let the 247 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 6: game go? And he spaid to me, well, they wanted 248 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 6: two dollars a cartridge for a royalty. We aren't going 249 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 6: to pay that. He couldn't. May what do you say, stupid, 250 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 6: He said to growth margins or eighty eight percent on 251 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 6: the cartridges, And that was going to be one of 252 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 6: the best games anybody ever saw. And forgetting that, Calico. 253 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: Got Donkey Kong was lost to some bad math at Atari. 254 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: The other problem the Atari system simply had too many 255 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: games and not all of them were coming from Atari. 256 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: A growing number of third parties were able to produce 257 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: games for the system without Atari's permission. 258 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 6: We could not legally prevent it, and it had I 259 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 6: forget the technicalities of it, but it had a lot 260 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 6: to do with what they had done well done at 261 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 6: the very beginning, and the way the twenties eacheter was 262 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 6: designed and nobody thought it was a great prominent business. 263 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 6: This is how Atari's out in trouble. The flood of software. Now, 264 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 6: remember that every subsequent successful piece of video game hardware, 265 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 6: having learned from our experience, you couldn't play out of 266 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 6: cartridges unless you got a license from the parents. 267 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: That's true. Video game companies got way more strict about 268 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: these games after Atari messuck. So how could that happen? 269 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: How can a company literally just crumble financially overnight. That's 270 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: a twisty knot. But here's someone else that can give 271 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: you a picture. 272 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 5: ET had just come out and Atari made this, you 273 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 5: know Howard Warshaws gave ET. So they had a press conference, 274 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 5: they showed the game, and I was the only person 275 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 5: from Atari there. Nobody else wanted to go. 276 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: That's Larry Kaplan Larry was a programmer with Atari who 277 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: left the company and then came back in time to 278 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: see it well implode. Part of that was poor quality control. 279 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: One of the most enduring stories of the Atari age 280 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: is the debacle that was Et, a game based on 281 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: the hit movie of the same name. Atari wanted, No 282 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: needed it in time for the Christmas nineteen eighty two 283 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: holiday season. That meant game designer Howard Scott Warsaw had 284 00:16:55,600 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: just six weeks to program it. Spoiler, it's really hard 285 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: to make a good game in six weeks. And to 286 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: add insult to injury, reporters at the press conference thought 287 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 1: Larry was Steven Spielberg. Both men wore glasses and had beards. 288 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 5: Clearly mean way. I looked at reporters interviewing me, you know, 289 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 5: for TV and local stations and newspaper, and they all 290 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 5: kept figuring out I said no, and of course then 291 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 5: nobody wanted to talk to me. It was fine, Yeah, 292 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 5: I didn't know what to say. Anyway, I was there 293 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 5: because nobody else wanted to be And yeah, I thought 294 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 5: was somebody could be there double gay, So it was 295 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 5: probably a bad idea. 296 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 6: Anyway. 297 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: To be clear, e T didn't kill Atari no one 298 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: game can do that. Not really, it's a tidy way 299 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: to summarize the story. But there was more going on. 300 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,679 Speaker 5: So a lot of it was that they done been successful, 301 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 5: made a lot of money, and so they went out 302 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 5: and sent it and they had people doing all kinds 303 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 5: of crazy things, paying money for all kinds of stuff, 304 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 5: and especially on the computer side, and you know, just 305 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 5: wasting money. The huge buildings. 306 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 8: So we had all these buildings, huge rents, and all 307 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 8: these defences in these grouping all kinds of crazy wild 308 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 8: you know, weird stuff, you know, titles that never sell 309 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 8: by the day, hardware, they were working on a video phone. 310 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 5: All kinds of stuff, and you know, they spent a 311 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 5: lot of money. But pac Man did not sell well 312 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 5: and they got returned and EP did not sell well, 313 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 5: and so Christmas came and retailers didn't have a good 314 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 5: Christmas because things weren't going well. So here it is 315 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 5: December and the retailers are trying to return the games 316 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 5: already for Christmas didn't even come because they have inventory, 317 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 5: you know, all over the place, and you know, famously 318 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 5: they buried some one of them buried with the landfill. 319 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 5: They couldn't sell them at a Tariet didn't want to 320 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 5: take them back. 321 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: Thanks to a glut of games and a lot of 322 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 1: bad games, revenues began falling. This wasn't an abrupt thing. 323 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: The so called video game crash took time to unravel, 324 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: but eventually Warner Communications wanted out, and that part happened. 325 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 5: Fast Ober night. Retail January said hey, we're not interested. 326 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 5: We'll not buy any more titles. We will return everything 327 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 5: we have, all the units and everything else, and that 328 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 5: was it. It's clear the company is going down to. 329 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: The company entered into a complex deal to hand it 330 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: off to another party, with options for the new owner 331 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: to buy Warner stock and Warner able to acquire a 332 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,919 Speaker 1: minority interest in the new Atari if they chose. Some 333 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: business experts characterized it as Warner practically giving Atari away. 334 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:55,199 Speaker 1: Warner didn't sell all of Atari. They kept the arcade 335 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 1: division and Atari Tell the telecommunications arm of the company, 336 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: but home consumer products were no longer under their banner. 337 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: Gaming was also undergoing a radical transformation culturally, like Rock 338 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: and Roll before it, Parents and child advocates were worried 339 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: about gaming's effect on kids, and while sword Quest was 340 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: offering real prizes, other games were offering real life consequences 341 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: of a different sort. In nineteen eighty two, a man 342 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: named Glenn Matta was playing pac Man at a bar 343 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,439 Speaker 1: in Riverhead, New York, when a woman began insisting it 344 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: was her turn at the machine. Matta began fighting with 345 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 1: the bar's bouncer before getting kicked out. He went home, 346 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: retrieved a rifle, and headed back to the bar, opening fire, 347 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: striking and killing a patron. Naturally, every story detailing the 348 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: killing made sure to mention the dispute had been over 349 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: a pac Man game. That same year, an eighteen year 350 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: old Indiana man named Peter Bukowski was playing an arcade 351 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: game called Brazil in pursuit of a high score. When 352 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 1: he finally achieved it, he stumbled and fell over. People 353 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: rushed to his aid and an ambulance was summoned, but 354 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: it was too late. Peter was dead. The deputy coroner 355 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: later determined he had died of a heart attack. There 356 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: was some inflammation of his heart, but investigators couldn't determine 357 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: whether the excitement of playing the game was or wasn't 358 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,719 Speaker 1: a contributing factor. The deputy coroner did add that Plukowski 359 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: could have died from any kind of exertion, but he 360 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 1: was playing a video game, so people jumped to that conclusion. 361 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 1: Some towns even took the extraordinary step of banning miners 362 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: from playing games. In Marlborough, Massachusetts, kids under eighteen were 363 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: banned from arcades before three thirty in the afternoon on 364 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: school days and after ten at night. Marlborough even mandated 365 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: that arcades couldn't be opened within fifteen hundred feet of schools. 366 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: The town of Bradley, Illinois, introduced similar policies, banning kids 367 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: under sixteen from all arcids. It was turning into footloose 368 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: for video games. 369 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 8: Jerry. 370 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 7: Video games are the latest craze to sweep the country. 371 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 7: In most of the world, too, millions of people are 372 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 7: addicted to hours of gazing at electronic images on game screens, 373 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 7: in arcades and in their own homes. What makes video 374 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 7: games so popular? We search for an answer as we 375 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 7: begin a special series on video fever Games people play. 376 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 1: Critics believed kids spending six or seven hours a day 377 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: playing games, or in what one dubbed an airtile electronic womb, 378 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: growing numb to reality. If the games didn't do it, 379 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: maybe the recreational drugs frequently bought and sold in the 380 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: CD or arcades. Did some even believed kids sold drugs 381 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: just to have the money to play video games. Between 382 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: video game hysteria and market saturation, every penny of Atari 383 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: going in and out was examined in detail under its 384 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: new ownership. One thing that stood out was sword Quest. 385 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: When the company was sold in the summer of nineteen 386 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: eighty four, two of the five contests had been held. 387 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: There was still water World and Airworld, along with the 388 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: grand finale where all four winners would vie for the sword. 389 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,439 Speaker 1: That was one hundred thousand dollars just in prizes, not 390 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,479 Speaker 1: to mention airfare for dozens of people, plus hotel, and 391 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,439 Speaker 1: you need to feed them. A safe assumption is that 392 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: it would cost somewhere in the neighborhood of one hundred 393 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars to finish sword Quest in the way 394 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 1: Atari well the old Atari had promised. It had seemed 395 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 1: like a great idea just two years prior, But then again, 396 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 1: everything seemed like a great idea when you were making 397 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of dollars. If Atari was compiling a 398 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: list of unnecessary expenses, then acting as a travel agent 399 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: for a couple dozen gamers had to be near the 400 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,400 Speaker 1: top of the list. But here's the thing about contests, 401 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: you kind of have to finish them. There are legal 402 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: protections in place for contest entrants so they don't get 403 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: financially harmed or cheated by contest promoters. Hundreds of thousands 404 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: of people had purchased the games on the premise they 405 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: could if they solved the puzzles and got the right phrase, 406 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 1: be eligible for prizes. If Atari simply terminated the contest, 407 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: they might be subjecting themselves to legal action, maybe a 408 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 1: Federal Trade Commission investigation, maybe a state law violation. Here's 409 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: Stephen Bell. 410 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 2: For the second game. There was another friend that we 411 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 2: met up with, a guy who had was really into this. 412 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 2: We became good friends, and he lived out there in Fresnel, 413 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 2: and so he was following everything that was happening real close, 414 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 2: and he was kind of keeping me informed that a 415 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 2: Tari was sold in the sky Bottom and we'll see 416 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 2: what's going to happen to contest. And I guess say 417 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 2: it took a year before funny, somebody convinced him that 418 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 2: you've got to do something here. You bought the company, 419 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 2: you bought this contest. 420 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: So Atari handed it off to an attorney to figure 421 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: it out. That process was protracted, lasting about two years. 422 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: The deadline to enter water World was April nineteen eighty four. 423 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: Stephen got his letter in August nineteen eighty six. After 424 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 1: all that time, What that attorney came up with was this, 425 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: only Stephen Bell and Michael Rideout had guaranteed slots in 426 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: the finals to compete for the sword. Everybody else who 427 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 1: had participated in Earth World and Fireworld had their chance 428 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: to compete, but only Stephen and Michael won. That left 429 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: the two of them, plus the winning entries for water World, 430 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: as the players who had the potential to win the 431 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: remaining prizes. But in order to end the contest, there 432 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: needed to be a unanimous decision between the two players. 433 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 1: If one didn't agree, then it would have to go forward. 434 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: That created a kind of union. Maybe Stephen and Michael 435 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: could join forces and demand Atari offer a more lucrative settlement. 436 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 1: Not that Atari's solution was cheap. Because Stephen and Michael 437 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: had already won their respective games. They were each offered 438 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: fifteen thousand dollars. Neither one had submitted a correct water 439 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: World entry, but that didn't really matter. The chance to win. 440 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: The sword was already promised to both of them. They 441 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: didn't need to win the remaining two games. Michael Rideout 442 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 1: would later tell gaming journalist and historian John Hardy that 443 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: he tried to call Stephen to see what Stephen wanted 444 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: to do, but he couldn't get in touch. 445 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 2: I was apartment hopping, So that's probably, unfortunately not of surprise, 446 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 2: because you know, back in the day to have the 447 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 2: Internet and everything else to track somebody down with, you know, 448 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 2: if a phone numbering in service no more. Yeah, so 449 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 2: as I didn't hear that, But I should have told them. 450 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 2: I should have came back with a counter offer, saying, well, 451 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 2: what the contest is done, then I win. 452 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: Both men struggled with the decision. The sword was valuable, 453 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: holding it aloft would be the pinnacle of the most 454 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: spectacular contest in video games up to that point. Did 455 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: they want to cash in their chips or let it ride? 456 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 4: We should have known this would happen. 457 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 3: Now that we've gained a third talisman on this third. 458 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 4: World, the Sword of Ultimate Sorcery appears in the air, 459 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 4: mocking us with its nearness for all that we cannot 460 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 4: touch it. 461 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: Finally, Stephen came to a decision. It was one he 462 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: had to arrive at in a kind of bubble, not 463 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: knowing which way Michael was leaning. 464 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 2: And at the time, I'm like, well, we're in through 465 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 2: the first money I won buying a car and stuff, 466 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:54,120 Speaker 2: and fifteen grandy come in handy. So my thought processor 467 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 2: as well, I can't give up fifteen grand and ended 468 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 2: up losing. Of course, I went, okay, I'll take the money. 469 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,959 Speaker 1: Michael wasn't sure Steven was going to agree either, but 470 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: he felt the same way. The guaranteed money was too 471 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: much to ignore. Within months, Stephen and Michael got a 472 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: check for fifteen thousand dollars each, as well as another prize. 473 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 2: I've had people over the years, and what do you 474 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 2: think happened to it? Well, I think mister Jack Fremielle 475 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 2: took him in dirt somewhere in his family. I don't know, 476 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 2: you never know, but everything that's what happened to emerginally. 477 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:30,360 Speaker 5: Yeah. 478 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 2: Actually I didn't hang with her until about ten years 479 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 2: ago because of course, you know, you got this story 480 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 2: to tell all your life. And one of my ex 481 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 2: coworkers about ten years ago, so he's all up on 482 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 2: Xbox and he asked me, Yeah, you got one, says no. 483 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 2: He said to wait a minute, you wonder how much 484 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 2: money are playing a video games that you aren't even 485 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 2: playing him anymore. They also, out of the blue, they 486 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,239 Speaker 2: sent I don't know if they sall to Michael. I'll 487 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 2: sure they probably did their last video games system, the 488 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 2: seventy eight hundred system. They sent to me as a 489 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 2: little bonus prize that I didn't even know about. All 490 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 2: Sun just showed up one day. 491 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: A new Atari seventy eight hundred gaming system which promised 492 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: better graphics. They also got their choice of games for 493 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: the system. Mis pac Man sent to Pete Joust, but 494 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: not Airworld, the fourth and final game in the sword 495 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: Quest series, was being shelved indefinitely. It was the bad 496 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: Girl of the eighties, a piece of lost media tucked 497 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: away into a vault, never to be seen by the public. 498 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: So there were no winners for air World to settle with. 499 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: That still left the ten people who submitted the correct 500 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: answer for water World and had a winning essay entry. Unfortunately, 501 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: Russ Perry wasn't one of them. 502 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 3: They were sending out like little certificates with each contest, 503 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 3: and I think we had gotten that certificate and the 504 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 3: indication that hey, you got it right, but you got 505 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 3: a tiebreaker. 506 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: Russ got a certificate crowning him something like a Supreme 507 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: Sage of Sorcery or another made up title as consolation. 508 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: That left one dangling thread. What was a Torri going 509 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: to do with the ten water World finalists, whose essays 510 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: they had already accepted and who had been promised a 511 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: trip to California for the contest. According to one video 512 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: game historian, only one solution was possible. Atari would have 513 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: to hold a water World tournament and award the winner 514 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: the crown, and they'd have to do it in secret. 515 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: There's a very nice coffee table book called The Art 516 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: of Atari, written by Tim Lapatino and released in twenty sixteen. 517 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: It features beautiful reproductions of all the amazing video game 518 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: box art produced by Atari artists like Warren Chang, Terry Hoff, 519 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: Steve Hendrix, Evelyn Cito, and several others. Seriously check out 520 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: some Atari box art online. It's terrific. The Art of 521 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: Atari also served as a breezy history of the company 522 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: on the subject of sword Quest. Lapatino writes, quote the 523 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: contest legally needed to be completed so the Crown of 524 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,479 Speaker 1: Life was allegedly awarded to the winner of a semi 525 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: public competition of several entrants unquote. While that's interesting, what 526 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: does semi public mean? Do contestants have to wear masks? 527 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: Where they all swornto secrecy? Dig a little more and 528 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 1: you'll find an Atari historian named Kurt Vendel. With another 529 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: historian named Martin Goldberg, Vendell co wrote a twenty twelve 530 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: book Atari Inc. Business Is Fun. He also amassed an 531 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: incredible assortment of Atari games, consoles, papers, and other ephemera. 532 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: He's long been considered one of the foremost authorities on 533 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: a Tar's long storied, and sometimes pot and cocaine infused legacy. 534 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: Kurt even went exploring in dumpsters belonging to the company 535 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: to salvage the history it was too quick to discard. 536 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: He was once escorted from the property, a badge of 537 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: honor for any cultural archaeologist. His Atari History Museum, which 538 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: had an online presence and occasionally a physical one at 539 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: gaming conventions, was a repository for all things Atari, store displays, prototypes, schematics. 540 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: He even worked with Atari to release a retro gaming device, 541 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: the Atari Flashback. Drawing on his skills as an engineer, 542 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: and in doing so, he found that he likely had 543 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: more of the company's history on paper than the company itself. 544 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety nine, The Village Voice Crown Kurt king Pong, 545 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: so he had real credibility as a journalist Anatari archivist. 546 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: This wasn't a random fan spinning a tail, but someone 547 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: who was constantly researching Atari's history. Kurt repeated the claim 548 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: a few times on Internet message boards that Atari was 549 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: legally obligated to hold a water World contest and that 550 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: someone was awarded the crown. Here's Russ Perry. 551 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 3: So I don't recall the exact timing of all that. 552 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 3: I think it might have been years later that I 553 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 3: found that they allegedly did hold the contest. So there 554 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 3: were a lot of people out there, and we were 555 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 3: all kind of connecting as best we could, and you know, 556 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 3: talking this stuff through, and you never knew how much 557 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 3: was hearsay a rumor. You'd eventually, like, hear some stories 558 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 3: over a few times and you'd realize there might be 559 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 3: a grain of truth. Because I've heard this from guys 560 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 3: across the country now. But it leads me to wonder 561 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 3: if he was speculating or had actually heard it from somebody. 562 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: Even if Atari wanted to terminate the contest and get 563 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: out of the last game and the finals, water World 564 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: had already been released and correct entries had already been accepted. 565 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: How could Atari deny those contestants a chance? More specifically, 566 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: how could Warner than the owners of Atari, deny them 567 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: the chance? That the contest was held quietly, which for 568 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: the gaming industry simply meant not publicizing the results in 569 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: gaming magazines was apparently important. It allowed Atari to put 570 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,280 Speaker 1: sword Quest to bed and avoid awarding the remaining two prizes, 571 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: the Philosopher's Stone and the Sword. But where did Kurt 572 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 1: get his information from? Almost certainly from speaking with former 573 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: Warner and Atari employees, But Kurt never sourced this specific information, 574 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: at least not publicly. What's more, no one has ever 575 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: come out to say they were awarded the crown or 576 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: even participated in a water World playoff. Did Atari make 577 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: them sign non disclosure agreements? If they did, would they 578 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: still feel bound to them four decades later? It's not likely. 579 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: While we'd like to ask Kurt, that's not possible either. 580 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: Kurt Vendel passed away at the age of fifty three 581 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty from a heart ailment, which proved to 582 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 1: be a devastating blow to the Atari fan community. We'll 583 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: have to go with what we know, and what we 584 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: know is that when Michael Rideout discussed his win years later, 585 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: he said that the ten water World contestants received a 586 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: similar offer to what he and Stephen had received, just 587 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,280 Speaker 1: much less of it. The ten gamers got two thousand 588 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 1: dollars or twenty five hundred dollars each to relinquish their 589 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: stake in the water World finals. Stephen heard the same thing. 590 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: Remember that Stephen had a friend in Fresno who was 591 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: in the Atari loop. In fact, Stephen is the first 592 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: person to corroborate Michael's. 593 00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,799 Speaker 2: Story just it was a buyout, that it was. They 594 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 2: had ten people waiting to go play for the third one. 595 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 2: That's when it hit the wall. And so they sent 596 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 2: out a letter to the twelve people involved if they 597 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 2: just wanted to end it, and here's some money. So 598 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 2: they offered Michael and I fifteen thousand, and they offered 599 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 2: these other ten people twenty five hundred to give up 600 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,720 Speaker 2: their shot at a twenty five thousand dollars a crown. 601 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,240 Speaker 1: Stephen has also heard the urban legend about the secret 602 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: water World tournament, but remember that he and a number 603 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: of contestants kept in touch with each other at least 604 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: for a while, and there was a chance one of 605 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,800 Speaker 1: them would have been a water World finalist. 606 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 2: I read that supposedly somebody won the crown. I'm not 607 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 2: buying it. I read that they had the ten people 608 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 2: that they actually went through with that contest, but I'm 609 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 2: not buying it because the legal ramifications of that. If 610 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 2: that actually happened, yeah, I don't think so. But you know, 611 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 2: unfortunately nobody in our little group was one of them, 612 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 2: because no, of course we were talking, so we all 613 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 2: had the same wrong answer. 614 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 1: Nor does Steven regret taking the money, though he's since 615 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,359 Speaker 1: come up with what he believed would have been a 616 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: better counter offer. 617 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 2: It took me five years. About five years after that, 618 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 2: I realized what I should have done. I should have 619 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 2: asked him for the sword. I should have told him. 620 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 2: I should have came back with a counter office saying, well, 621 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 2: if the contest is done, then I win. Because I 622 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 2: went to two of them and won one of them. 623 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,359 Speaker 2: Michael wasn't that the first one, and I was even 624 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,240 Speaker 2: going to tell him, you can give Michael the crown 625 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,320 Speaker 2: and the other prize, and we each get our fifty 626 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 2: thousand dollars prizes, and we're all happy because that wouldn't 627 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 2: have cost him any money. 628 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: But that brings up another question. Keep in mind that 629 00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: in most all of the advertising material for Sort Quest, 630 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: the prizes appeared as illustrations. There were no photos of 631 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: the Crown, Philosopher's Stone, or Sword of Ultimate Sorcery. The 632 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: game's creator, Todd Frye, never saw them. With Atari ending 633 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,720 Speaker 1: the contest, was there even a sword to hand out? 634 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 1: Or had Atari been waiting until the last possible moment 635 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 1: to commission a jewel encrusted blade from their company siblings 636 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 1: at the Franklin Mint. Here's Ross Perry Junior. 637 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 3: I remember back in the day, some people speculated that 638 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,840 Speaker 3: they weren't actually making the prizes until like right before 639 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,399 Speaker 3: the contest the championship. 640 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 1: Had hundreds of thousands of people been playing for a 641 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: sword that never actually existed. The answer to that question 642 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: would come some thirteen years later and nearly three thousand 643 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: miles away, and of all places, inside a thrift store. 644 00:38:54,880 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 1: That's next time on sword Quest, the. 645 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 9: Legend of sword Quest is a production of iHeart Podcasts 646 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 9: and School of Humans. This episode was written by Jake 647 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 9: Rosson and hosted by Jamie Loftus producers are Miranda Hawkins 648 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:15,920 Speaker 9: and Josh Fisher. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, L. C. Crowley, 649 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 9: Brandon Barr, and Jason English. Our show editor is Mary Doo. 650 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 9: Audio engineering by Graham Gibson, Research and fact checking by 651 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 9: Austin Thompson and Jake Rosson. Original score by Jesse Niswanger. 652 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 9: This episode was sound designed by Josh Fisher, mixing and 653 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 9: mastering by Jake Cook. Show logo by Lucy Quintonia. Voices 654 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,760 Speaker 9: in this episode are provided by Hayley Ellman and Graham Parker.