WEBVTT - Securing Smart Contracts 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:07.680 So the big question is this, how do investors like 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.800 us get access to the ideas, information, and most importantly, 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:14.880 the right people that give us the tools and information 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:19.000 we need to make informed and educated decisions to have success. 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:22.360 That is the question, and this podcast will give us 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:25.480 the answers. This is Mark Moss, your host. Let's get 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:28.080 this started. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:31.560 Market Disruptors podcast. Today I am sitting down with Olga 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:36.040 mac and she is the VP of Strategy at quantz Stamp. 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:40.279 They look at smart contracts and we dive into smart contracts, 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:43.080 what they are, why they're important, how they're being used, 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.120 problems that we could find with them, and how we 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:49.239 can mitigate the risks. So much good information in this 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:51.480 that you need to hear about smart contracts, which really 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:54.440 the whole system revolves around. So let's go ahead and 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:57.240 just jump right into with Olga. Everyone, Welcome to another 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.440 episode of the Market Disruptors podcast. Today, I am joined 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.320 by Olga and she is the VP of Strategy at 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:05.959 quant Stamp. She's a co author of a book, The 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.759 Fundamentals and Smart Contract Security UM. She's an attorney by trade, 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:11.800 but she's also been kind of in the digital Space, 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:13.800 Payment Space worked with Visa in the past, a really 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:16.600 unique perspective and I'm excited to have you on OLGA. 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:19.960 Thank you for joining time Market's fantastic to be here. 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:23.720 I appreciate you're in white. All right, So, UM, we 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:26.000 got a lot to talk about today. UM, but why 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:27.920 don't you just kind of frame it up a little 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:29.880 bit UM for those that don't know, I mean, I 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:31.360 gave you a good intro, but for those who don't know, 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:33.880 tell us who you are, kind of what you've been doing, 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:35.840 how and how you get to the space, and specifically 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:39.520 what you're doing now. So, as you mentioned, I'm a 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:42.959 VPF Strategy at quant Stamp. Quan Stamp is on the 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:49.480 interstection of blockchain smart contracts and security. Way make sure 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:53.920 that the smart contracts that companies and projects put out 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:57.520 in the world, UM that they're secure and that the 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:01.480 assets that people put in them are not stolen or 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:04.720 locked out. Uh So, to the extend you care about 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:09.280 your assets, UM, I highly recommend thinking about how secure 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:12.280 they are. UM. As as you mentioned in my prior lives, 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:16.079 I have been uh an attorney, I've been at numerous startups. 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.280 I've also been a big company such as Visa and 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:23.320 law firms. I am a tech lawyer by design. UM. 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:27.440 I've been on the cutting edge of various technologies, and 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:30.960 I've been always on the privacy security side. So those 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:34.160 are sort of my passions. They seem to be very 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:38.880 combineable in blockchain and crypto, and I'm really excited about 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.960 the space. Yeah, so that's interesting. So your background being 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:47.959 in tech UM security and privacy UM, which I would 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:50.040 imagine would have been would was a challenge in the 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.120 more centralized days and today with a new technology because 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:55.000 I give you like a lot of new tools that 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:58.280 you can use to really help the privacy and security piece. 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:01.560 So you have the right security and privacy and not 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:05.520 new challenges. We've had them for a while. We had 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:09.639 them before Internet, We've definitely had them during Internet, and 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:12.400 we will have them in web to three point oh 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:16.720 and and and and more. UM. Those are challenging their 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:21.600 evolving challenges UM, and they with every technology, you have 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:25.679 different different flavor of challenges and so it's really fun 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.480 to see the evolution of the challenge. It's also fun 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.840 to see the evolution of solutions, and frankly, it is 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:36.440 also fun to see UM how other people who challenge 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:39.520 space the crooks because they have access to the same 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:44.200 technology and um and and it is an ongoing, evolving 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:48.160 space for everyone. Yeah. So one piece of the space 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:51.160 that I'm super interested in and everybody should because it's 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:53.560 really the lynch pin maybe for the whole space, is 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:57.280 just the smart contract piece. And so I wanted to 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:00.680 spend some time talking about that. UM. And as you 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.640 mentioned with quans stamp, you're looking at smart contracts security. UM. 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:07.040 Now when we were talking before we started, you said 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:08.960 it's it is the space, right, so it kind of 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:11.280 is everything. UM, So maybe just tell us a little 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:13.880 bit kind of like what smart contracts are and how 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.280 they're being used and why they're so important. Yeah. So 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:19.000 smart contracts are you know, that's sort of a still 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:22.120 a name. As everyone knows, they're not smart you know, Mark, 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.440 you're very smart. Um, they're not that kind of smart. UM. 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:28.840 And they are not really contracts. They're not they're not 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:31.880 a bunch of legalies where you sign your name at 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.800 the bottom. What they are they are pieces of code. 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:40.200 And those pieces of code do three things. They store rules, 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:45.240 they verify rules, and they sell execute rules. So they 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:48.360 do those put the functions U and many folks compare 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.159 them to vending machines. So if I would like to 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:54.400 have a snack of choice, I go to a vending machine, 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:58.279 I put a dollar. Um Uh, it stores rules that 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:00.440 if you put a dollar, you get as knack of choice. 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:03.839 Once I put a dollar, it verifies that this dollar 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:06.400 is correct and that I meet the amount and then 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:09.960 tower while a beautiful moment, I get my snack of choice. 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:12.800 So that's like, it's like logic, right, if this, then 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:16.920 that this, then that it's and and they get very 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:20.960 powerful when uh, there's more than one smart contracts and 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:25.000 it is a back and technology, most consumers do not 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:28.720 see it. If it's done right, and it's highly combinable 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:33.120 with other technologies like data or AI. And in fact, 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:36.120 when you combine that, that what makes it super powerful. 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.680 Um and so that that's the technology, and it can 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:43.920 power quite a few things, and exciting applications are possible 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:46.440 with it. Yeah, I've heard, you know, I get a 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:48.920 lot of questions about smart contracts, and people think they're 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:51.279 going to replace like law firms and things like that. 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:54.280 But I don't think that's quite it, right, So it's 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:57.480 more about logic, if this than that and the more 0:05:57.480 --> 0:05:59.320 about the way things can kind of work together and 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:01.719 not so much like rule or govern over things. Is 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:05.320 that is that about? Right? Um? Let me I I 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:07.320 have a little bit more. You you sort of right, 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:09.559 but let me give you one nuanced way of looking 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:13.240 at it. Um, there is a world of smart contracts. 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.120 Let's sort of imagine the event diagram. There is a 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:18.640 world of smart contracts, and there is a word of 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.960 legal contracts, and imagine that those are two circles, and 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:26.200 there is an overlap. So there are some legal contracts 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:29.960 that may be replaced by smart contracts. And there's also 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.720 some smart smart contracts that are not legal contracts. And 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:35.080 there are some legal contracts that are not smart contracts, 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:38.560 so there could be an overlap. And uh, there is 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:41.039 a really great white paper by the Chamber of Digital 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:47.440 Commerce to what extent if the contract legal contract becomes 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.880 smart contract, whether it's enforceable um. And there are a 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:52.880 number of law of view articles and there in a 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:57.080 white paper, and most scholars and practitioners agree that should 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:00.360 this become a legal issue, it is highly likely those 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:04.920 legal contracts will be enforceable UM if they're executed by 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:08.520 smart contracts. However, you are correct that most smart contracts 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:11.320 are not legal contracts. They're just pieces of code. And 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.320 the beautiful thing about those pieces of code and the 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:18.280 reason why smart contracts are in my view, the application 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:23.120 of blockchain is that they embody sort of traditional business lodger, 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:27.840 any business, any function sort of operates on EVE then 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:31.360 E then statements uh, and smart contracts are sort of 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:37.800 an opportunity to to uh combine it all together and automated. 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:40.960 And so that's why you see most applications of smart 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:45.200 contracts at this time in in inefficiency type of space, 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:50.400 in making things better, faster, reduced paperwork, cheaper, those types 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:53.400 of things. That is the first wave of application of 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:56.880 smart contracts. My prediction that we're gonna be in this 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:00.280 space for a while um, and that would actually fuels 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:05.400 adoption and curiosity by many enterprises. But I think over time, 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:11.080 especially combined with other with other technology and data, um, you, 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.560 we will be able to solve what I call unsolvable problems, 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:18.040 problems that we sort of gave up solving or didn't 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:21.000 even think that other problems. Uh. And the next wave 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:25.200 of innovation will be combining the technologies and completely rethinking 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:28.400 how we do business. Yeah, so if if I have 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:30.760 this right, then you said, there's like the there's like 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:34.200 the legal contracts and the smart contracts. So legal contracts 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:38.000 are ones that might need to be decided on by somebody, right, 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:40.480 So like you and I have a business contract and 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.679 there's a breach and we have to go before arbitrator, 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.880 judge or something to rule over that contract, versus like 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:49.520 a smart contract, it's something that would be decided on 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:52.840 by the code, right, and it would, And so it's 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:55.720 really more about ways that things are working together and 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:58.040 not like the legal contract that that would be a 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:00.080 different way, because like laws, like something that's argued it 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:04.240 over right and sometimes decided on. If some parts of 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:09.720 legal contracts could be automated, and some contracts legal contracts, 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:13.440 anybody whoever negotiated a ligal contract know that they're often 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:18.440 deliberate gray areas because parties may or may not know 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:21.640 what's gonna happen in the future and may want to 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:24.360 be able to argue about that future. So to the 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:28.080 extent you want to have a bright line and self execution, um, 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:30.600 you may want to put smart contracts on that function. 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:32.640 And to the extent you may want to have a 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:36.600 gray area maybe not, So there's sort of benefits to 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:38.839 both those decisions to be made. So let me give 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:42.000 you an example. Sometimes, you know, if you are clear 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:45.559 about what performance leads to payment, you may want to 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:47.560 put it on a smart contract just to make sure 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:52.000 that you don't have to invoice and you automatically get payments. 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:55.760 In supply chain, you often have this kind of UM 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:59.280 records that have to be submitted for the objects to 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:02.880 move through summers and so if you want to automate 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:08.520 that function UM and you get various clearances and various permissions, 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:13.040 if those are automatically submitted, the they you have automatic 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:17.040 execution of the function. So some things that are are 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.760 great to be for to be put on smart contracts, uh, 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.240 and some things that are probably still gonna be part 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:26.840 of our legal universe. Sure. So um as as part 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:30.080 of Quanstamp, you're looking over smart contracts and helping to 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:31.800 make sure they're secure and stuff like that. So I'm 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:34.480 guessing you're you're really at the forefront of these smart 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:37.679 contracts and really seeing what's going on. So how are 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.840 they being used today, Like what's really happening today or 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:43.040 what's what's right on the verge, like what's kind of 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:45.280 like this next wave of worre smart contracts you're really 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.120 gonna be making an impact. So you know, look, I 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:51.200 mean it's a little bit hard because, uh, blockchain smart 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:54.440 contracts attaching many industries, and it's a little bit hard 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.320 to say who is a little bit for their head there, 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.960 you know, that is changes somewhat they date. We do 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:04.360 know that blockchain is smart contracts, you know, have sort 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:08.640 of a very obvious financial implications, and bitcoin being one 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:13.280 of the sort of first application and various other financial 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:19.240 players adopting the technology quickly, more quickly than others, you know, 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:21.400 suggest that that's sort of an obvious place and we 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:24.319 see quite a lot of development, um But there are 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:28.600 other applications, you know, Uh, supply chain, the industry I 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:32.400 just mentioned has had quite a lot of progress as well. 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:34.800 IBM is doing quite a lot of work in it, 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.040 Oracle is doing quite a lot of work in it, 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:41.360 and many many other companies. Um. So sufflically, change space 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:43.760 is like just one area that's really using it. I 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:47.079 think also the decentralized finance space would be another area 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:49.800 that was probably using a lot of smart contracts as well. Right, 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:54.400 So yeah, decentralized finance. UH is part of the sort 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:57.160 of finance trend that I just discussed. Yes, that that 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:01.000 is the number one applications at this time, but there 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:03.600 are other areas and and logistic is another one. But 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:07.520 you also see it in in numerous others. Okay, I'm curious. 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:10.719 You know, in in we kind of saw the protocol 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:13.040 wars where we had you know, Ethereum came up as 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:14.959 a smart contract platform, and then we had all these 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:20.000 other smart contract platforms that came out. Um. What about Bitcoin? 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:22.920 I've heard, you know, there's talk about you know, side 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:24.760 chains and things like that where people are starting to 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.480 do smart contracts. Are you seeing any of that? Can 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:29.640 you comment on any of what may or may not 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:33.080 happen with smart contracts on the Bitcoin either probably side 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:37.920 chain or something federated chain. We see many folks dabble, 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:42.920 and smart contracts one of them. They are numerous others. Um. 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:47.880 I think we see the world where because smart contracts 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:56.800 functionality is so powerful and it embodies traditional business logic UM, 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:00.840 and a lot of people realize that and so UM 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:05.800 without specifically commenting on what bigpoint our theorem does, UM, 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:09.560 I think we'll see the world where that functionality will 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:15.359 be embedded in many platforms because it is so powerful, 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:18.640 because it is so cool too many businesses, and I 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:21.840 think there is realization. I think the challenge for the 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.800 technology at this time is that looking forward, that we're 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:31.720 gonna have numerous platforms embed that functionality. How do we 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:35.000 make sure that those platforms talk to each other? Um, 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:37.640 that is an interesting challenge yourself. But yes, I think 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.680 I think it's smart, smart conscious functionality. And if you 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:46.640 look for example at at um uh patenting a smart 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.880 contract functionality is one of the top five functionalities that 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:54.240 are being patented in the United States and China, which 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:58.240 leads patents in blockchain. And so my prediction that smart 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:03.080 contracts will continue being the for functionality and that we 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:06.120 will also need to solve a challenge of platforms talking 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:09.200 to each other. So then, um, in the future, at 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:11.800 some point in the future. UM, you think this argument 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.520 right now of bitcoin versus all all coins is uh, 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.600 smart contract platforms can run small cartracks, Bitcoin can't. But 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.480 you think there's a future where Bitcoin runs smart contracts 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:23.680 just like other platforms do. In some way or another. 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:26.880 I think there is a future for manual platform to 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.760 have a functionality related to smart contracts, and I think 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:35.000 it's an evolving field. It's definitely an experimental technology at 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:38.960 this point. A lot of new stuff is, frankly even today, 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:43.360 is coming out from universities like the University of Waterloo, Stanford, 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:47.760 m I t H, University of Singapore. So it's a 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:53.720 highly experimental technology and we'll see more and more we developed. Yes. Okay, Now, um, 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:55.720 you had said when I want, I think before we 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.880 started the actual show. Um, I had mentioned where I 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.320 said it's a big piece and said smart contracts are 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:04.840 actually the piece. Um, so what do you mean by that? Like, 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:08.280 why is it? Why are smart contracts so important to 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:13.560 this entire ecosystem? Uh? I think it's because it really 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:18.000 under pains and I think we've never looked the way 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:24.520 we do business that smart contracts just embodies logically how 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:26.920 the business has done a lot of business. If you 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:30.440 ever worked for an enterprise or any company, a lot 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.720 of business could be reduced to a bunch of evvent statement. 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:37.040 You pay me, If you pay me, I'll give you services. 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.920 If I give you services, we're then I have relationship. Right. 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:43.560 So there's a lot of event statements embedded just sort 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.440 of by default. And so smart contracts the reason they're 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.000 so powerful is because we have many enterprises, because we 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:53.680 have many services, we have many instance statements, uh, sort 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:56.920 of assumed in our daily lives and our businesses, and 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:01.280 smart contracts can very easily or more easily than other 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:05.080 things automade that. Yeah, Okay, it's kind of like a 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.520 bunch of systems. So like the best businesses in the 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.920 world really build the best systems. Um. Think of like franchises, 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:13.360 where like something has always done the same way, if this, 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:16.680 then that right. So um, So if that's the biggest 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:19.800 piece of the system, um, which I agree with you, right, 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:21.840 I mean in order for all this to work, we 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:25.520 have to have that smart contract, that logic in there. Um. 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:27.400 But if if that's big of if it's that big 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:29.480 of a piece, then it's it's important that we get 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:31.640 it right. And I think that's where quand Stamp comes 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:35.240 into to like look at these smart contracts and see 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:38.920 problems that maybe there. I know, throughout history we've seen 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.080 some big problems, right, so I think there was the 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.760 Ethereum one, there was this parody one, right, so we've 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:48.840 seen big problems with smart contract failures and um, I 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.680 guess you guys are trying to help solve that problem. 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:53.960 Is that correct? So let's let me talk a little 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:57.360 bit more about what could possibly go wrong. Yeah, smart 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:00.320 contract because you know, on the one hand, day in body, 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.640 business logic, and they're super powerful. I think of them 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:07.919 as a very very sharp knife. Um. On the other hand, 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:12.560 remember they are pieces of code. And who writes pieces 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:17.480 of code? Humans? Humans right code? And so what is 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.399 the problems with people doing things? Well, the problem is 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:25.640 that humans people professional error probe, they make mistake and 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.919 so what we see and the classic example, you know 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:31.840 you mentioned parity as I'll mentioned something else, The classic 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:35.439 one is a doubt problem. One little miss step in 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:41.800 a code, one little mistake can have millions of dollars disappear, 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:44.639 and people will you know, if you ever talk to 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:47.280 somebody who has been affected by this problem. For example, 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:49.879 our founder a Quantum, one of the reasons he founded 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:54.040 this company is because he has been affected by this problem. 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:57.159 If you if you ever talk to somebody or who 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:00.080 was part of thou Um, you know what how and 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:04.160 is that money was disappearing. Folks have been watching at 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:09.200 real time and they could do absolutely nothing about it. 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:12.879 It's sort of like witnessing and violence against yourself. You 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:17.360 just stand there smile, right, and it doesn't matter how 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:20.639 much money people lost. People who were part of it 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:26.360 have a very almost primitive reaction to this violence, right 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.560 to this funds disappearing in front of their eyes, and 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.399 that that was very disturbing, right, and they couldn't do 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.720 much about it. So that is the challenge with smart 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:39.960 contract is that on the one hand, they're very very powerful. 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.200 On the other hand, they are created by humans. Humans 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:48.080 make mistakes, and so there your funds can be locked out, 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.760 your funds can disappear, your assets, right and remember which 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:54.560 you can put on a smart contract doesn't have to 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:58.639 be financial asset. It could be any asset. It could be, 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:02.400 for example, a real estate asset. It could be August reputation, 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:06.120 August privacy because that's an asset as well. So they 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.840 store assets that are quite valuable. And so it's important 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:15.080 to make sure that there's no code problems because those, 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:19.919 especially in public blockchains, they are open. The code is 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:23.800 open to two for everyone to see um and there 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:27.000 are people who are really good at finding the crooks, 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:31.080 finding the challenges the code and taking advantage of it 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:34.359 and so yes, on the one hand, it's a powerful knife, 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:37.400 but that knife could be used to to cure and 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:40.520 that knife could be used to kill. Um. And so 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:45.120 it's very important to use this tool in an intentional 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:48.240 way and take precautions. It's a you know, it's it's 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:50.320 no different. It's a it's an age old problem. Right. 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:52.240 You have bankers, and you have bank robbers, and the 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:54.240 banks are trying to stay a step ahead of the robbers. 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:57.880 Or we have virus makers and anti virus makers and there, 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:01.720 and it's always this race. And UM, remember when I 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:05.000 said that, you know, the good guys and the bad 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:08.600 guys have access to the same technology, right Exactly, I 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:11.720 can understand the challenge you must have or our company, 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.160 like Content might have, um in a sense where all 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:16.960 this code is written by humans, and everybody writes it 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:19.640 a little bit differently. Um. And then there's all these 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:22.160 different platforms and languages to write it on, so there's 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:25.640 like a limited amount of combinations. UM. So I could 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:28.439 understand it. It could be very difficult. Uh. Could you 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:31.320 talk at all about maybe a process of how you 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:35.720 do that or how that's done? Yeah? So, um. Actually, 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:39.200 so that while there's a potentially infinite number of combinations. 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:41.760 We also know that some smart contracts are more tested 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:45.600 than others, so there are increasingly number of templates and 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:51.119 best practices that are emerging to help developers to write 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:54.800 smart contracts that they don't have to recreate the wheel 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:58.400 every time because some smart contracts are already tested and 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:02.680 so there are organizations that put out templates. We created 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:06.760 a Smart Contract Security Alliance where we work with enterprises 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:10.600 and project to put out best practices. So that is emerging. 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:13.239 There will be more and more of it because you know, 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:15.959 just like lawyers don't have to write every contracts from 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:20.600 scritches because many clauses have been litigated. Uh, similarly, developers 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:22.800 don't have to write a code from scritch and they 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:26.439 can take advantage of the code and it makes it 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:30.199 much easier for auditors to double check. But part of 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:35.520 developing safe smart contracts or any code, especially if it 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:40.680 houses assets, is to basically go through the process of 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:43.960 of audit, and we provide that service. We're also building 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:48.560 protocols and tools to make sure that the that smart 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:52.720 contracts can be checked for vulnerabilities at scale, because if 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:56.280 you imagine the world that will be dominated by smart 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:59.240 contracts because if then it is so embedded in our 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:03.199 collect the logic, then it's very important to get to 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:05.520 the point where you can just sort of take all 0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:08.880 your smart contracts, put them in the black box and 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:12.080 make sure that you're safe. Right, that's the ideal world. 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:14.520 So we are building those tools, We are building those 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:18.000 protocols in the meantime as this technology developed, and as 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:21.919 we're building, were also providing services. And we're not the 0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:23.720 only ones. There are other people who do this. They 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:27.919 all have slightly different UM method that I'm doing it. 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:31.359 I personally like the way we're doing it. We have 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:35.119 a number of PhDs from the university or Waterlook who 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:41.679 dedicated their life to studying, understanding developing smart contracts. So 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:45.280 the way we do audits is that we basically take 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:51.400 smart contracts and give it to three people to audit independently, 0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:55.720 and then they compare results and UH compete as to 0:22:55.760 --> 0:23:01.360 who's gonna find most vulnerabilities. We find that through that process, UM, 0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:04.680 we we get it, get it right, and we get 0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:08.359 really good results UM. And then we also in the 0:23:08.359 --> 0:23:13.320 process educate our clients, helped them at that better practices UM, 0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:18.439 and just generally be safer. Yeah, I think, Um, it 0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:20.640 opens up a lot of conversation that we maybe haven't 0:23:20.640 --> 0:23:23.000 had in the past. Um but but but maybe we 0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:26.080