1 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: One of the most successful entrepreneurs in the world of 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: cryptocurrency is Sam Bankman Freed. He's created the ft x platform, 3 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: and that platform has been so successful in the cryptocurrency 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: world that Sam has become one of the wealthiest men 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: in the world. As a result of this, he's now 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 1: focusing a lot of his energy on philanthropy. I sat 7 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: down with him at the Bloomberg headquarters in New York 8 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,319 Speaker 1: recently to talk about the future of crypto and his 9 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: desire to change the world to make it a better place. 10 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: So is crypto down for the count or is it 11 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: coming back? I think it's coming back. And obviously a 12 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: lot of this is just going to have to the 13 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: macro environment. You know, if we see markets crash again, 14 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: we're going to see crypto crash along with it. If 15 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: we see a market recovery, we're going to see a 16 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: crypto recovery along with it. But I think this is, 17 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 1: you know, it's flushed out a lot of the things 18 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: that needed to be flushed out from the crypto space anyway. 19 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: Right when the when May of this began, I think 20 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: a meltdown in tech values and also crypto. Did you 21 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: get nervous that all of a sudden the world was 22 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: going to fall apart. Not super nervous, It's like it 23 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: was definitely gonna be a rocky road for the industry. 24 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: And you know, you saw some businesses blow up when 25 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: bitcoin hit twenty k. Um. I think you know, if 26 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: we saw things meltdown much further than they did, right, 27 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: if we saw you know, nazac trop from here in 28 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: bitcoin go down to ten k per token, I think 29 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,559 Speaker 1: you would see another round of pain for the industry 30 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: that would potentially be more of a medium to long 31 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 1: term problem. So it didn't give you any gray hair 32 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: I can see, so oh well a little bit, but 33 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: you know I plucked those out to keep up appearances. Um. 34 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,479 Speaker 1: So let me ask you this. When the bitcoin world 35 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: was kind of going down a bit, I think a 36 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 1: bitcoin peaked at sixty one or something. Now it's at 37 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: as low as when I did. Um, a lot of 38 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: other cryptocurrencies went down as well. Um, you bailed out 39 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: some companies. What money did you use to do that? 40 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: So there there are a few different versions of it, 41 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: and um, you know, one piece of this was basically 42 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: FTX balance sheet, like we keep our corporate cash just 43 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,799 Speaker 1: in dollars and so you know, we've raised a few 44 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: billion dollars over the course of the last last couple 45 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: of years and we're profitable business. Um. Now we we've 46 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: also done some acquisitions which partially balances that out, but 47 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: you know, we had some some cash left and with 48 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: the Block five you know deal for instance, UM that 49 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: was on f I think f x USS balance sheet. 50 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: Well on Wall Street has had its problems early in 51 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: the twentieth century, um shape Mr JP Morgan himself. Yeah, 52 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 1: I used to go out and say I'm going to 53 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: bail out certain companies and you were called the JP 54 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 1: Morgan crypto. Does that bother you or not? It doesn't 55 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: bother me too much. I mean think it's something I 56 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: thought was the right thing for the industry. And you know, 57 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: are very explicit mandate that we sort of gave to 58 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: the team of people working on this was your goal 59 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: is not to make a fortune for us doing this, 60 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: like your goal is to do okay deals. Your goals 61 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: for us to knock get our faces ripped off. But 62 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: contingent on that, you know, do as much as we 63 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: can to bail out the industry, and that that was 64 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: the higher goal, was trying to backstop places rather than 65 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,679 Speaker 1: maximizing on on these deals. No, I would have loved 66 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: other people to do it, Like I think I've been great. 67 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: So you went in, you bought some companies where those 68 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: investments profitable. I mixed is basically the answer. I think 69 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: some are going to turn out to be profitable, some 70 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: won't be, like one of them, certainly. I mean with Voyager, 71 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 1: I think, you know, there's seventy million dollars there that 72 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 1: that that we put in that I'm not sure ever 73 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: seeing that seventy million again. And so you know, we 74 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: actually make snap judgment calls, and we made them such 75 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: that if things turned out well, they'd be good investments, 76 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: and if they turned out badly, they'd be bad investments. 77 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: But we sort of limited the amount that we could 78 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: lose from it. Why if so many young people seem 79 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,119 Speaker 1: so attracted to crypto. I mean, I know the people 80 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: from all over the world, of all ages, but it 81 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: seems like young people particularly are very interested. Why is that? Yeah, 82 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: I mean, partially, it's a new thing that's going to 83 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: appeal to younger people. But I think another aspect of 84 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: this is if you're you know, twenty one years old 85 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: and you're trying to get access to markets you want 86 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: to be able to to train aid to invest. You 87 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: can sign up for an account on the Crypto Exchange 88 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: and get full market access. If you try and get 89 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: that same level access in equities and commodities, you can't 90 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: get it. You're gonna end up with heavily intermediated access 91 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: that has like pretty limited amounts of real interactiveness, limited 92 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: amounts of liquidity, limited amounts of size, limited amounts of 93 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: market data. And so I think for a you know, 94 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: natively digital generation that's looking to take more control of 95 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: their finances actually being able to do it with crypto. 96 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: It is a big, big difference. So in your own case, 97 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: you got involved with crypto at what age I was, boy, 98 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: I guess there's twenty five or so. And did you 99 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: ever imagine that at when you got involved you would 100 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: now be one of the most important people in the 101 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: crypto world. I have become a multi billionaire. No. Well no, 102 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 1: although the crypto worlds also grown quite a bit since 103 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: I got involved. But I was surprised at how big, 104 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: how how big things you're in general, how big you know, 105 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: I was able to grow things. I thought there was 106 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,119 Speaker 1: a chance of it, like I did see pretty high upside. 107 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 1: When I got involved, I was surprised that we actually 108 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: got there. So today you're running ft actually start ft 109 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 1: X in what year? And what does it actually do? 110 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: So it's a encryptocurrency exchanges is what we call it. 111 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: But really it's a combination of a few different businesses. 112 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: If you compare it to traditional finance, right, you have 113 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: you know, the New York Stock Exchange, y nastact, ice 114 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: and C and me as the exchanges and that that's 115 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 1: where bids and offers cross. But you don't go to 116 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: New York Stock Exchange dot com to send an order there. 117 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: They are primarily the sort of back end trading infrastructure. 118 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: Separately have brokerages, fcms and other businesses that sat in 119 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 1: the front that you know, consumers access, and then you 120 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: have different settlement and sort of custody parties sitting in 121 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: the middle. There in crypto, all of that gets squashed 122 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 1: traditionally into one entity. And so what what FTX is 123 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: it's sort of all of those things. It's a back 124 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: end you know, match engine, risk engine, custody system. It's 125 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: a front end mobile app, website, API and everything in between, 126 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: so that you know, if you want to buy or 127 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: sell a bit cooin. You can go to ft x 128 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: dot com and you know, we offer all the services 129 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: necessary to do that except for buying and selling. So 130 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: you got involved because you thought it would be in 131 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: a creative new area to to get involved with. But 132 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: was making a lot of money at one of your goals? Yeah? 133 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: It was. And in particular, when I was in college, 134 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: I started went to a lot of charities that I 135 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: really respected and said, Hey, what can I do to 136 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: help you guys out, Like, do you want me to 137 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: work for you? And they basically not really. I mean 138 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: you could, but they'd be kind of mediocre. Um. You 139 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: know what they say is they they'd rather my money 140 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: than than my time. And so I ended up going 141 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: on to Wall Street and then getting involved, you know, 142 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 1: with crypto, with the goal of donating what I made. 143 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: So let's go back to your youth. Not that you're old, 144 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: now you're how old? Thirty years old? Thirty years old? 145 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: So let's go back to let's say when you were 146 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: growing up. You grew up in California on Stanford campus, 147 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: and your parents were both professors at Stanford Law School. Yeah, 148 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: and one's name was Professor Freed and one is professor Bankman. 149 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: So whose idea was it to combine the two into 150 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: one name. I think they kind of both had the idea. 151 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: I think there's a little bit hashing out of exactly 152 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: what that would look like. Would it be Bankman freed? 153 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: Would I be free bankman um? But I think they 154 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: kind of mutually came to that decision. So if you 155 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: got married someday and you yeah, so you'd have two hyphens, right, well, 156 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: especially if if I'm married someone with a hyphenated last name, 157 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: right then you've got four names. I think at that 158 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: point we just have to roll a die and choose one. 159 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: Oh wow, Okay, so you've thought about that. Yeah, I 160 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: mean you can also just choose a totally new name. 161 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: But would it be particularly attracted to find somebody had 162 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: a hyphenated name or not? Really? Oh, I think it 163 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: would be. It would be worth one good story. That's 164 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: why I get out of it. On the scale if 165 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: life partner is not the most important criteria. Okay, So 166 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: you're growing up, your parents are distinguished professors at Stanford 167 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: Law School. Were you interested in the law at any 168 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: point or not not at all? Growing up? I think 169 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: I'd become more interested in it recently, but you know, 170 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: and when it's growing up, my parents told me you 171 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: can do whatever you want with your life. We don't 172 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: particularly recommend that you become a lawyer, but you know, 173 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: you're welcome to do whatever you want. So we were 174 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: a bit of a math prodigy when you were younger. 175 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: I was certainly better at math than I was at 176 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: at a reading or literature. So you went to M 177 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: I T. Yep. And when you got there, did you 178 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: find that people were smarter than your thought or not 179 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: as smart as you thought? I think smarter than I thought. 180 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: I think maybe some part of me had hoped that 181 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: I would, you know, be able to live a life 182 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: where I, you know, was always clearly sort of like 183 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: you know, uh, an outlier on that, And I think 184 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: M I T. Taught me that wasn't true. That there 185 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: were a lot of other really smart people in the world, um, 186 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: and you know, was really interesting and cool getting to 187 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: know them. So when you get the M I T. 188 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: Did just say, Look, I'm going to go out and 189 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: become a multi billionaire before I'm thirty. No, I had 190 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: no idea what was gonna do. I mean, I I 191 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: weekly thought I was going to become a professor, not 192 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: for any particular reason. I realized I didn't really like 193 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: academia when I was there, and that left me kind 194 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: of a little bit lost about what I would actually 195 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: do with my life. So what did you major in physics? Technically? 196 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: I I took about the bare minimum that you could imagine. 197 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: It took maybe seven or eight physics classes my whole 198 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: time there. So what did you really take courses in math? 199 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: Or I took some my minor in math, but I 200 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: took a kind of popourri of classes, um, you know, 201 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: some policy classes, some econ, some psychology, But really I 202 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: also didn't take that many classes and and sort of 203 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: got a little burnt out of academia. And so when 204 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: you graduated, what did your parents say you're to you 205 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: about what you should do upon graduation. I mean mostly 206 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: they said a should do what I wanted, and what, 207 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 1: like I thought was whatever I thought would be exciting, 208 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: and you know, they're going to support me with whatever. 209 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: But I, you know, going to like junior year of college, 210 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: I had no idea what that was going to be. 211 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: Always sort of had just ruled out or soft ruled 212 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: out academia and didn't know what was going to replace it. 213 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: I ended up interning at Jane Street, a finance firm, 214 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: after my junior year, and I really liked it there 215 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: and was starting to chart a path forward of donating money. Okay, 216 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: so did you do upon graduation? You took a job 217 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,199 Speaker 1: in finance? Yep, went back to Jane Street work there 218 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: full time. And what did they do? They're quant trading firms. 219 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 1: So I was on the internationally t F desk. Basically 220 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: that means you have a US listed fund that owns 221 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: a lot of foreign stocks. So you know, you could 222 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: look at e m U S listed ETF that owns 223 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: a bunch of emerging market companies, um, you know across 224 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: uh Asia, across lot M, and you know a few 225 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: places in Europe. And it's basically a combination of like modeling, 226 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 1: computer trading, and real time intuition kind of jumbled together. 227 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: And how many years were you doing that? About three 228 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: three and a half years, all right? Then after that 229 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: you said I'm going to go start something in the 230 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: crypto world. Not quite so I left in late in 231 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: Let's says fall, roughly, not sure what it was actually 232 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: going to do next. What I'd really done was sort 233 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: of written down like twelve things I could do with 234 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: my life, and I felt like a lot of them 235 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: were compelling, and I didn't know what was going to 236 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 1: be best, but that you know, the only way to 237 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: try would be to to to leave and just dive 238 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: into some of them. And so you started your own company. 239 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 1: What was it called? So Alameda Research is the first 240 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: company started up, and it was a crypto quand trading firm. 241 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: And you know the sort of founding if it was 242 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: basically well, you know, bitcoin was trading on a lot 243 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: of different crypto exchanges and it was not trading at 244 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: the same price on all of them. So you might 245 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: see it training for ten dollars on coin base and 246 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: ten tho on bit stamp, and you know, in theory 247 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: there's a one percent arbitrage to do their trading those 248 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: against each other, all right, So she decided to mirror 249 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: less trade bitcoin or other cryptos and take some arbitrage advantage. 250 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: And it was a profit of white presume, Yep, it was. 251 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: It was a huge amount of logistical work, like finding 252 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: the trades was the easy part. The hard part was 253 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: getting the account sending wire transfer, was opening up entities 254 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: and all of the other sort of operational work that 255 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: went into actually being able to execute normally. Then people 256 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: start companies, they get venture capital money, and those venture 257 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: capital's own a piece of it. Did you get venture 258 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: capital money? Not for Alameda? And part of this was, 259 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: you know, we talked with some VC firms and our 260 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 1: petrits basically, hey guys, good news. A bunch of twenty 261 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: five year old UM, we don't really know what a 262 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: big poin is, but we're trading it. Also, this is 263 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: all crypto um and uh, you know, we got a 264 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 1: startup together. None of us has run a company before, 265 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: and we'd like a hundred million dollars by next Tuesday. Ideally. 266 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,719 Speaker 1: It was not a very compelling pitch turned down. Oh yeah, 267 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: I mean no one. You know people are like, oh 268 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: that's so cool, like I hope you find success, and 269 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: you know, no one was. And it's what we ended 270 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: up doing is basically cobbling together lines of credit and 271 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: other things from various sources, trying to sort of snowball 272 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: and be able to to to build on ourselves. Okay, 273 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: so after that, you've started another company, f t X. Yeah, 274 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: Now what is ft X do that your first company 275 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: didn't do? So Alameda is buying and selling like it's 276 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: trading for its own book and you know, trying to 277 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: to do profitable trades. F t X you can think 278 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: of it as infrastructure. It's markets infrastructure, so everything that 279 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: sits between a buyer and a seller. So ft X 280 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: doesn't buy in cell itself. Um, but it's a venue 281 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: where people can go to trade crypto and and you 282 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: know that that aims to solve sort of every piece 283 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: in between those two parties from you know, the clearing 284 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: and settlement and custody, the you know, anti money laundering. 285 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: You know, your customer policy is the compliance uh you know, 286 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: the match engine, the risk engine, the front end and 287 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: everything else. Right, So why does somebody come to ft 288 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: X and use you as opposed to one of the 289 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: other uh similar exchanges. Yeah, I mean, you know, to 290 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: each his own. But the things that I think we've 291 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: particularly specialized and been good at one, we've been pretty 292 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: you know, fast moving and innovative, you know, where a 293 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: relatively new venue. But we've put a lot of thought 294 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: into exactly how our products are designed. Where's the company based. 295 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: So we have we have a lot of offices for 296 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: regulatory reasons. So as an example, we have a new 297 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: Tokyo office with a bunch of people in it because 298 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: we now have a jfs A Type one financial services 299 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: license there. So we have like little bases in a 300 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: number of the Jersey dictions that we are licensed and 301 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: regulated in. But our biggest offices in the United States, 302 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: in Chicago and outside the United States is NASA on 303 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: the Bahamas, Right, So you live in NASA and is 304 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: that a tough place to live? It's it's really tough. 305 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: It's a hard life. And so how do you put 306 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: up with the pleasure of going to the beach or 307 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: not versus working? I'm uh, you know, for better or 308 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: for worse, not the person most tempted in the world 309 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: to go to the beach. I enjoy it being there. 310 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: I like going there once every couple of months, but 311 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: I don't I don't spend a lot of time outside. 312 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: I'm pretty much just in the office. So you don't 313 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: look like you have a tan or anything. No, not 314 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: so much. So what is your interest in philanthropy? You're 315 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: one of the youngest people to sign the Giving Pledge 316 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: you were at the most recent meeting. What propelled you 317 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: to do that? It's always been in theory of goal 318 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: of mine to figure out how it can have positive 319 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: impact on the world, and how it can have the 320 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: biggest possible impact, not just you know, some some random 321 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: amount of it. I didn't actually put that into action 322 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: for a little while, but when I got to college, 323 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: I sort of came to terms with the fact that 324 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: there were really things that I could do that would 325 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: have impact, that it was worth doing those, and then 326 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: started to think more critically about what should I do 327 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: with my life that would be the best for the world, Like, 328 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: what what would maximize that? What is effective altruism, which 329 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: is something you have pursued. Yeah, so the effect of 330 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: altruist community is the community people doing basically that, looking at, 331 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: you know, how can you maximize your positive impact on 332 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: the world? What should you actually do with your life? 333 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: And it looks at it both from the lens of like, 334 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: you know, should you be you know, earning TV, which 335 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: is say, making money with the goal of donating it 336 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: to effective causes? Um. Also you know, it looks at, 337 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: you know, should you be working directly for some of 338 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: these foundations. In addition to that side, it also looks at, 339 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: you know, what causes are the most impactful? Right? Should 340 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: you be thinking about global poverty, about you know, animal welfare, 341 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: about climate change, about pandemics, like what are the areas 342 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: that are most impactful, you know, to focus on. And 343 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: I got involved in the community in college and it's 344 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: been a really big part of how I've decided what 345 00:15:58,280 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: to do with my life. What do you hope your 346 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: impact society is. I mean, in the end, obviously there's 347 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: an impact from the day to day work. UM hoping 348 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: to make financial markets more efficient, more inclusive, you know, 349 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: from what I do with my donations. We'll see in 350 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: the end, but you know, right now, I think I 351 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: would say biggest things like getting the world to a 352 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: place where we're actually ready for the next pandemic, even 353 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: if it's nasty, even if it's bioengineered, that we can 354 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: shrug it off the way we failed to shrug off 355 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: covid UM would be one of the primary goals. And 356 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: I think, you know, helping DC become more constructive UM 357 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: is a big goal. So very often when people get wealthy, 358 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: they buy fancy suits and so forth. You haven't gone 359 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: to that phase yet, right, Not so much. Your outfit 360 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: is pretty much standard. It's some kind of T shirt, shorts, 361 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: tennis shoes. Is that what you wear all the time 362 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: When I go to Washington, d C. I have a 363 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: suit there because I have to wear it on the hill. 364 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: But outside of that, Yeah, So you're thinking of buying 365 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: a house to live in or where do you live? So? 366 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: I live in uh, the nine nine colleagues and I 367 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: bought a large apartment together near office that that that 368 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,360 Speaker 1: that we live in. UM and I don't. I mean, 369 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: you know, I'm sort of really fortunate to be able 370 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: to have a really comfortable life and not have to 371 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: worry ever about, you know, money for myself. But I'm 372 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 1: not particularly excited, you know, to to to dive into luxury. 373 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 1: I'm not excited about yachts. UM and I both think 374 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: it's not what I should do with my money. I 375 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:24,719 Speaker 1: think I should be thinking about how I can help 376 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: the world with it. And also just isn't who I am. 377 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: So do you go to Washington much to lobby with 378 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: members of Congress and or regulators? And is an uplifting 379 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: experience for you? It's so, I I go a lot. 380 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: I'm there probably every few weeks, and it's been a 381 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: surprisingly uplifting experience. I was not expecting that I was 382 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: expecting it to be a real slog and I think 383 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: it could have been in a slightly different universe where 384 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: you saw continued wards going on between regulators and the industry. 385 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 1: What we've tried really hard to do over the last 386 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: year is to get the industry to a place where 387 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: it is happy to accept sensible regulation. And I think 388 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: that's that's helped turn down the volume a little bit 389 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: on the arguments and due to a place where most 390 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 1: people are honestly trying to engage on what's the important 391 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 1: federal oversight that we need to give to the industry. 392 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: How can we do that in a way that makes 393 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: sense given how the industry operates. The crypto industry seems 394 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: to want to be regulated by the CFTC and some 395 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 1: people want the SEC to be the principal regulator. UH, 396 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,199 Speaker 1: do you have a view on this? So in the end, 397 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: both are going to be regulators. And you know, the 398 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: CFTC is going to regulate commodity future, so it's going 399 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: to regulate very likely futures on tokens that are not securities. 400 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: The SEC is very likely going to end up regulating 401 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: UH spot UH security token markets. And there's some territory 402 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: in between there. When you look at spot commodity markets, 403 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: when you look at what security token futures regime might 404 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: look like, those may end up as joint regimes. They 405 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,360 Speaker 1: may end up in one place or the other. In principle, 406 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: I'm fine with either regulator or any combination of them. 407 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: You know, I think that the non security token aspect 408 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 1: of this is a nice fit for the CFTC's regime 409 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 1: now in our country, when you want to have some 410 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: influence with government, very often people make campaign contributions as 411 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: they're called, and you've become a large donor to political candidates. 412 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 1: Is it because you want some influence on the policy 413 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: of crypto or is it issue I think these candidates 414 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 1: are good public servants. It's mostly just looking for good 415 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: public servants like that is by far the most important 416 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 1: thing to me. And look, there are a lot of 417 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 1: issues that matter, but there's also just this correlated aspect 418 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: of like are they going to be fighting too what 419 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: they think is right for the country in general? And 420 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,199 Speaker 1: you know, the single issue that I have sort of 421 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 1: spent the most time, uh you know, thinking about the 422 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: most money, uh you know, donate to on the political 423 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: side is pandemic prevention. Which has nothing to do with crypto. Um, 424 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: but it's you know, ultimately, what I think is, you know, 425 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: one of the most important issues for the world over next, 426 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 1: So how do you find political fundraisers? They come to 427 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: you directly? Is it easy to get to you and 428 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: say we need this money for this candidate and what 429 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: type of candidates you tend to support? Oh? Yeah, well 430 00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: if you if I pulled out my phone here and 431 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: just looked at my last ten text messages, you know 432 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: about half of them are going to be people asking 433 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: for you know, politicians asking for for contributions. But um, 434 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 1: you have a political expert advisor. Yeah, so obviously ignore 435 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,239 Speaker 1: the text messages. Um, I've i've I've got a few 436 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: people on the ground in DC whore sort of actually 437 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: running the operation stage. So when you give money to 438 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: a candidate and he or she gets elected, do they 439 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: respond to you when you call them later or not? Really? 440 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: Some do, some don't, And it's you know, always super 441 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 1: happy to talk, but it's not generally the primary goal, Like, 442 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: the primary goal is generally that I thought they would 443 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 1: be a good legislator. Do you get involved with presidential campaigns? 444 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: You're gonna be involved in this campaign that's coming up 445 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: in a couple of years. It's a good question. The answers. 446 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: Maybe it totally depends on who's running, on what the 447 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: race looks like. I'll give a couple of thoughts. The 448 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 1: first is, you know, I might be very involved, I 449 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: might not be involved at all. I might be involved 450 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: on either side or both. And in general, my senses 451 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: that primaries are really important, and I think this is 452 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 1: true for the presidency as well. I think this is 453 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: something a lot of people miss is that if your 454 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: goal is partisan, then you basically have to operate in 455 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: general elections. That's when you know partisan splits are determined. 456 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: But if your goal is getting like good public servants 457 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: and people who are really fighting forth right for the country, 458 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,199 Speaker 1: there are people who do don't fit that description on 459 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 1: both sides of the aisle. And you know, you have 460 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 1: these contests which are wing lower stakes from a partisan perspective. 461 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: It gets rid of a lot of the noise and competition, 462 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: and you know there are great opportunities to support people 463 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 1: who just be good public servants. So you support people 464 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 1: of both parties. Yeah, okay, and today you would not 465 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: consider running for office yourself, right, I would be an 466 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: insane thing for me to do as a fourth job 467 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: to tack onto you know, the other things I'm doing, 468 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,160 Speaker 1: And can you see doing this for another ten years, 469 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: twenty years, thirty years like this? I think. So I 470 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: don't tend. I mean, when I get burnt out, I 471 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: get burnt out because I'm out of useful things to 472 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: do on a topic. I don't tend to get burnt 473 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: out from workers stress. Crypto came along relatively recently. I 474 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: guess bitcoin is invented in two thousand nine, but yep, 475 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: but relatively recently it's become a big phenomena. Do you 476 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 1: see any other phenomenon like that that you might get 477 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: involved with as well? Potentially? I mean, look, eventually AI, 478 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: I think, you know, right now we're at the stage 479 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 1: of AI being mediocre chat bots instead of really bad 480 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: chat box. But that's going to change over time, and 481 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: you know, mark to ten twenty years from now, we 482 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: may be having a very different conversation. So I I 483 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: have not bought any cryptocurrencies. I have invested in companies 484 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 1: that service the industry, but I haven't bought crypto myself. 485 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: Let's suppose I said I wanted to buy some cryptocurrencies 486 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 1: what would you recommend to me or anybody else. Well, 487 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: first thing, as I try not to give an investment advice, 488 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: and and you know, what I would say is the 489 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,159 Speaker 1: most effective and useful thing you can do is just 490 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: try everything out. Take ten dollars, Feed it through every protocol, 491 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,439 Speaker 1: feed it through every exchange, see what it's like. Get 492 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: a first endo experience of using a blockchain, using a 493 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: blockchain explorer, doing trade, and that will teach you a 494 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: lot about how the industry functions. You know, I think 495 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: I've I've been really interested in a few different areas 496 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: of the space. I think have been interested in scalable blockchains, 497 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: have been interested in obviously in the exchange and platform space, 498 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: especially on the regulated side. Um. And then I'm super 499 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: excited about the potential for blockchain based social media to 500 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: the extent that there are projects coming out, you know, 501 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: in that area around remittances and payments and around market structure. 502 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: Those are the places that I'm looking at the most 503 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: right now. So, um, in the case of cryptocurrencies today, 504 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: you say it's now the time to get in it's good, 505 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: or now is the time to wait to see where 506 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: the market's going. So I think what I would say 507 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: is there's potentially a lot of profit you can make, 508 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: you could also lose. So like things can go up, 509 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: things can go down. Um, there is you know a 510 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: lot of upside potential. The biggest thing I would say 511 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 1: is don't put in more than your you know, find 512 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: losing like you know, don't don't put in money that 513 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: you would be really really sad to lose into you know, 514 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 1: crypto right now. Um, you know, think of it more 515 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: as an upside play. When you leave this interview and 516 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: you go outside, can you walk down the streets of 517 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: New York without anybody bothering you? It's borderline. So I 518 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 1: think probably half a percenter or third of a percenter 519 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: or something of people recognize me here, and so you know, 520 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: the real answer is like every ten minutes that I'm 521 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: walking on the streets, someone will recognize me. Roughly, it's 522 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,439 Speaker 1: a little bit in between. What you can do is 523 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 1: get a comb, comb your hair, or get a shot 524 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: and then people would be your disguise. It's true, I 525 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: could just look look normal and that would do You 526 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 1: haven't thought of that, That's that's beyond me. Thanks for 527 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: listening to hear more of my interviews. You can subscribe 528 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you 529 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: listen