1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Secretary of Education Linda McMahon won't 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: rule out URFK Junior taking over school vaccine programs. This 5 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 1: is insane. We have such a great show for you today. 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,159 Speaker 1: Lincoln Project's own Rick Wilson jobs by to talk to 7 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: us about Trump's dismantling of the Department of Education. Then 8 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: we'll talk to Wesleyan University President Michael S. Roth about 9 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: Trump's attempts to bully universities into his policies. 10 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: Smiles. 11 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 3: Googling around to see if activists have ever brought down 12 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 3: a Senate majority leader, and I'm going to shock you, 13 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 3: but I could not find any existence of precedent for this. 14 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 3: So it does not really shock me that Schuber is 15 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 3: basically saying I ain't stepping down. 16 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: Here's the deal. People are mad at Chuck Schumer. People 17 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: are really mad, and actually the base and the people 18 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,639 Speaker 1: who are protesting everywhere, and by the way, hey, this 19 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: is not getting the kind of mainstream media coverage that 20 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: it should. There's a lot of protests going around and 21 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 1: there's not getting a ton of coverage. But people are 22 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: protesting and they are really, really really mad. I took Schumer. 23 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: Now they're mad because they feel that they didn't get 24 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: anything right the truck. Schumer did not get anything for 25 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 1: the cr This is because we've seen Republicans get things 26 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: for CRS. Right, We've seen them threaten to crash the economy, 27 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: to blow through the death ceiling, and we've seen people 28 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: get stuff and Schumer didn't get anything. Now, that said 29 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: Schumer was when it went through Congress. Once this bill 30 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: had gotten to the Senate, it was going to be 31 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: very very hard to stop it. 32 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 2: Right. 33 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: Once the bill had gotten to the Senate, it was 34 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: odd Democrats to shut down the government. Had it not 35 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: gotten through the House, that would have been a different story. 36 00:01:55,800 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: But again, Elon and Trump together are votes for Mike Johnson. 37 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 2: Right. 38 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: We know this to be true. We know that Elon 39 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: is donating to people in the Republican Party who do 40 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: what he wants, and this has worked incredibly well for 41 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: Trump and his people. So could Schumer do more? Yes? 42 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: Should Schumer do more? Apps fucking lutely, here's another problem 43 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: with us. There is no one right now who wants 44 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 1: the job. If a Democrat wants to take this job. 45 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 1: They need to stand up and say I want this job. Now. 46 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: Is that Chris Murphy, I don't know, Maybe it is, 47 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: maybe it's Brian Shotts. I mean, there are any number 48 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: of people who could take this job, but if they're 49 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: not out there trying to get the job, then there's 50 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: a feeling that maybe no one wants this job. So 51 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: I do think that this only works if someone comes 52 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: forward and says they want the job, which again, Chris 53 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: Murphy could absolutely do. So could there are any number 54 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: of Democratic members of the Senate who could. But until 55 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 1: that happens, it's going to be hard. And I think 56 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: that if you want to stand up for democracy, you 57 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 1: need to be brave. 58 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 3: So this is another disturbing deportation. The niece of a 59 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 3: green cardholder who's been the US for fifty years has 60 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 3: been detained by Ice. 61 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, we're just going to hear a story 62 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: after story like this. You know why, because this is 63 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: what we're doing, Like, this is what we as a 64 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:35,119 Speaker 1: country are now deporting people without checking into their status. 65 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: We're deporting first and asking questions later. So here's the question. 66 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: Here's sixty four year old aunt called Anti Lynn first detained. 67 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: She's sixty four, detained by Custom and Border Patrol at 68 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: Seattle Tacoma International Airport. She was returning from a trip 69 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: to the Philippines. She immigrated to the US from the 70 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: Philippines when she was get ready fourteen. So she has 71 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: lived in this country for half a century, right, half 72 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: a century. She is now in a Northwest ice detention facility. 73 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: She has lived in this country for half a century. Okay, 74 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: by the way, it's a ice processing center which is 75 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: privately owned by the Geo Group, a private prison company. Right, 76 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: they're fifteen hundred other detainees. It's been open since two 77 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: thousand and four. Her family has not been told anything 78 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: by ICE. She has a non violent conviction for embezzlement, 79 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: which is probably why she came up in the computers 80 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 1: in the first place. She was in a halfway house 81 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: for thirty days and she has a sixty four hundred 82 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: dollars fine. This is what it is. So a sixty 83 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: four year old woman is in a private prison, an 84 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: ice detainment center. How does this make America great? 85 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 2: I don't think it does. 86 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 3: Neither does the richest man on earth, who's going to 87 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 3: sue everybody who talks about him into submission to not 88 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 3: say anything about him, as is evidenced by Elon Musk 89 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 3: promising a lawsuit after ex Congressman Jamal Bowman called him 90 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 3: a Nazi. 91 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: This is one of these things. It turns out that 92 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: Elon is actually not a free speech absolutist. He was 93 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: just a guy who wants the people he agrees with 94 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: to get elevated and not the people he doesn't agree with. 95 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: You know, it's funny because it's like all of these 96 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: free speech people didn't like certain types of speech. I 97 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 1: am not surprised by this one bit there. He's going 98 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: to keep doing this. And look, Musk and the far 99 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: right have had a lot of success with suing people 100 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: for saying things they didn't like, so none of us 101 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: should be surprised by this. This is going to keep going, 102 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: Bowman said on Thursday and CNN the American people do 103 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: not trust Musk because Musk is incompetent. This is going 104 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: to keep going. 105 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 3: Speaking of bad legal news, so this seemed to be 106 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 3: the real top line headline for a lot of people 107 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 3: in the legal world of scary things that well, I'm 108 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 3: gonna be honest, this is a little bit about my 109 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 3: pay gread Could you explain it? 110 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: Trump targeted this law firm that is called Paul Weiss. 111 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: It's a big blue chip law firm. They represented people 112 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: who tried to prosecute Trump or criticize Trump or whatever 113 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: the crime quote unquote was. Paul Weiss made the decision 114 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: that a lot of billionaires have made this sort of 115 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: decision that they thought that if they went to Trump 116 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: and they said, oh, mister Trump, we we love you, 117 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: we are sorry we ever represented someone you didn't like, 118 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: that Trump would stop targeting him. This executive order targeted 119 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: the firm and it could have cost them business. Now, 120 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: Paul was a huge law firm makes gazillions of dollars. 121 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: They didn't want to fight with Trump. They thought it 122 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: would be easier and better just to give up and 123 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: maybe they could manipulate him into doing what they want. 124 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 1: But here's the thing, and this is what we see 125 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: again and again, just like what we saw with Columbia. 126 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: You give into a bully, you don't win. These billionaires 127 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: think maybe that they can manipulate Trump into getting what 128 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: they want, and maybe Elon can, but a lot of 129 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: these people are just going to see that Trump is 130 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: just going to bully them. More so, Paul White happy 131 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: to go along with whatever I said that they would 132 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: donate forty million dollars in free legal work for things 133 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: of Trump believes in. That is a totally incredible I'm 134 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: fascinated to see what they end up doing. You know, 135 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: the head of Paul Whites went into the White House 136 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: and tried to suck up to Trump. What we know 137 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: from Trump one point zero is you do this and 138 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't work. If it worked, that would be one thing, 139 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: But that is not what happens here. George Conway, frequent 140 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: Trump critic and friend of this podcast, they have a 141 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: moral duty to defend the very system that has allowed 142 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: them to make the kind of money that they make. 143 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: These law firms are now basically so profit driven that 144 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: they are putting their own economic interests above that of 145 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: the system. Conway said, this is not only morally appalling 146 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: and morally fraud and just contemptible, but in the end 147 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: of the day, it is self defeating. That's right, because 148 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: if the rule of law doesn't matter, which Paul Weiss 149 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: is saying it doesn't, then why do we even need lawyers? 150 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: And that is a real question, and good for George 151 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: Conway for saying it. Rick Wilson is the founder of 152 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: the Lincoln Project in the host of the Enemies List. 153 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: Welcome back a few fast politics, My buddy, Rick Wilson. 154 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 2: Molly John Fast. Lovely to see you as always. 155 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: So it's Sunday, week nine and Trump's America Sunday. 156 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 2: Sunday Sunday. That kind of thrills the spills. You're the 157 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 2: fans want to see you in here. 158 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: Yes, things are going great. 159 00:08:58,120 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 2: The world is really really doing well. 160 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like other countries finally respect us. 161 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 2: You know, we've waited so long to be respected again, 162 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 2: and until this very day, until the magic of our 163 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 2: of our Golden Age economy, our robust system of the 164 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 2: rule of checks and pounds protecting the rights of others, 165 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 2: the checks and balances that other nations only could dream 166 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 2: of achieving. Until today. Honestly, I mean, no one, no 167 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 2: one could have anticipated that Donald Trump would have ushered 168 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 2: in this era of stability, prosperity, comedy, goodwill toward men. 169 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm sick of winning, personally. 170 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 2: I'm exhausted by the winning, so much winning. 171 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: So you're listening to this, you're driving to work. It's Monday. 172 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: You have another week. Let's just get them up to 173 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: speed about what happened this weekend. You tell me if 174 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 1: you think this appropriate. Members of Trump's administration clowned themselves 175 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:59,199 Speaker 1: on national television trying to defend the indefense of ball. 176 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 2: I think that's really part one of the most perfect 177 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: summaries of this weekend I could have imagined, because even 178 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 2: on some of their more friendly outlets, there seems to 179 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 2: be creeping into the dialogue a little bit of like, really, really, 180 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 2: what you do? 181 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: What? Yeah? I mean, It's like, I feel like a 182 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: good gauge for how bad things are is Rupert Murdoch. 183 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 1: If Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal and New York Post 184 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: are saying things like we implore the president to stop 185 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: fucking up our stock market and doing da da da, 186 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: that is an important data point. 187 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 2: I will say that the important data point that we're deriving, 188 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,839 Speaker 2: especially from the Rupert verse, begging Donald Trump to cut 189 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 2: the shit out, Begging Donald Trump to put Elon Musk 190 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 2: on a leash, Begging Donald Trump to stop the threats 191 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 2: to invade Greenland. 192 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: You don't want to invade Greenland. 193 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I still believe we would be greeted as liberators. 194 00:10:57,960 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they love that. 195 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 2: But that's the problem with Greenland is it's so close, 196 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 2: it's so tempting, it's so sparsely populated. I would like 197 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 2: to make a proposal. If we do invade Greenland, I 198 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 2: believe it should become the center of the Maga universe. 199 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 2: I believe that is many of the trust stars reality. 200 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: Here, buddy, all right, all right, all right, so I'm 201 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: not going to let you get too far off the leash. Here, 202 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: Betsy DeVos. Today on CNN, we had Steve witkof, you know, 203 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: making international pieces harder than I thought. 204 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 2: Can I just say this about Steve wick. 205 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: Cough, Yes, please. 206 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 2: If they were going to hire somebody who was such 207 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 2: a profound sucker for Vladimir Putin's sewage pipe tidal wave 208 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 2: of lies and bullshit, who has such an evident lack 209 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 2: of any historical knowledge, it's a good choice for that 210 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 2: this job. I mean, just hire somebody direct from the 211 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 2: Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Because with Cough he did 212 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 2: try to wander through his talking points. They're like, oh, 213 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 2: the don boss, And I'm sorry, guys, it's only four 214 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 2: fucking items. Okay, Just want to memorize a little thing 215 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 2: here and there. 216 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: They did not send their best nor their brightest. 217 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 2: No, no, they didn't. And as for Betsy de Vas, 218 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 2: let's be very very honest about this. There is a 219 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 2: I believe an inverse correlation between your desire to burn 220 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 2: down the Department of Education and your education, because this 221 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,239 Speaker 2: is another area where even some of his most passionate 222 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 2: followers are like, yeah, my state is not great on education. 223 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 2: Could you not like completely? Because unfortunately they're learning that 224 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 2: the main job of the Department of Education is not 225 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 2: to promote wiganism or lesbianism, or paganism or any other 226 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 2: is in their catalog of horrors. It's actually the fund 227 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 2: of some education programs in the States. Oh oh, oh, who. 228 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: I think that's correct. I also think that part of 229 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: what we're seeing here is, you know, they're moving fast 230 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: and breaking things. They've broken a lot of stuff, a 231 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: lot of stuff the courts have said they can't break. 232 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: We have you know, the deportation stuff. I mean, what 233 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: is the thing that keeps you up at night? 234 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 2: Go the courts? 235 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: But the courts have stayed. 236 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 2: Oh no, what I'm saying is Trump ignoring the courts? Yeah, 237 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 2: right now, to my mind, that is the universal problem matrix, 238 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 2: both Trump trying to burn down the courts and his 239 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 2: people actively now trying to do what they did before 240 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 2: January six, which was to fill the minds of maga's 241 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 2: up with the idea, just as they did before January six, 242 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 2: that they said the election is stolen, it's corrupt. The 243 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 2: communists took over all these things that scare MAGA voters. 244 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 2: Right now they're saying these judges are enemies of America, 245 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 2: they are unpatriotic, they're corrupt, they're bought off, they're dangerous, 246 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 2: they're trying to destroy Donald Trump. And I think we 247 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 2: historically have seen a pattern where when you tell MAGA 248 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 2: voters this or are not those sharpest knives in the drawer, 249 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 2: and when it comes to interpreting whether Trump is telling 250 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 2: the truth or not, they freak out and bad things 251 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 2: start happening. Right I think we should be very wary 252 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 2: that we don't end up with judges in more danger 253 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 2: than they're in when they start saying, you can't do this, Donald, 254 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 2: and Donald does this, we move to the contempt phase 255 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 2: of the courts. I really am very concerned it hasn't 256 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 2: quite gotten as bad as it's going to get. In 257 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 2: that space. 258 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: No, I think we can all agree that things are 259 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: going to get worse before they get better. 260 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, look, someday the reaper will take Donald 261 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 2: Trump from us and the obituary will be read and 262 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 2: people will go, Okay, wow, we got through it. But 263 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 2: I don't know that that day is going to come 264 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 2: without a lot more pain first, right. 265 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: I would also say, like nobody wants anything bad to 266 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: happen to anyone. We all want the to end peacefully. 267 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 2: I don't necessarily agree with that, moll. I think a 268 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 2: lot of Republicans want bad things to happen to Trump's enemies. 269 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: Right, right, right, that's certainly true. 270 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 2: I don't want people to pretend that we are dealing 271 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 2: with the my honorable friend problem. 272 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: We still have a lot of stuff that's coming down 273 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: the pike pretty quickly. Right. They're going to try to 274 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: pass this tax cut bill. We'll see what happens. We 275 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: have measles is still growing in Texas. 276 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 2: In the year of Our Lord twenty twenty five. There 277 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 2: is no goddamn reason for measles to be an issue, 278 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 2: except for the man in charge of America's healthcare system 279 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 2: now believes that measles can be treated with cob liver 280 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 2: oil and vitamin A. 281 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: He's really into cops liver oil. But right now we 282 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: have Texas cases now confirmed in Alaska, California, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, 283 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhde Island, Vermont. So do 284 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: me a favor or get your measles vaccine. 285 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 2: Please, everyone go get your measles vaccines. They are affected 286 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: and they are safe. There is nothing in this world 287 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 2: I find more disappointing and disheartening than the idea that 288 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 2: millions of Americans believe that a proven and safe vaccine 289 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 2: that has saved countless lives is now dangerous for political reasons. 290 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: What do you think are like the new fake challenges 291 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: that Trump world will be confronted with this week, besides 292 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: ending the war in Ukraine in one day. 293 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 2: As you can see from Witkoff this weekend, as he said, 294 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 2: a piece is harder than we thought. Blah blah blah. 295 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 2: I don't think we are anywhere near the end of 296 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 2: the Trump administration getting suckered by Vladimir Putin. They have 297 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 2: only begun to be suckered by Vladimir Putin. They're barely 298 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 2: even off the out of the takeoff phase of this 299 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 2: flight of being suckered by Vladimir Putin. But one of 300 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 2: the things I think is really important to keep an 301 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 2: eye on this week is the market last week sort 302 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 2: of got the message from Trump World We're going to 303 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 2: back off of some of this trade work garbage. Don't worry. 304 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 2: You know, we're feeding the rubes. You know, this is 305 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 2: all boob bait for the Rube class. Blah blah blah. 306 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: And the market got a little calmer on Friday. 307 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: Are any of these tariffs actually enacted? 308 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 2: Here's the other part of that is they are still 309 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 2: mostly mostly on the This kicks in in thirty one days, 310 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 2: fifty days, ninety days, that sort of shit. That hasn't 311 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 2: made it better for a lot of these Wall Street 312 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,360 Speaker 2: folks and for a lot of companies in America who 313 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 2: have to plan out a long way ahead of time, 314 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 2: who have to do this sort of thing not days 315 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 2: in advance, but a quarter or one hundred and eighty 316 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 2: days in advance. I had someone yesterday tell me that 317 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 2: he says, the most frightening thing that nobody has picked 318 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 2: up on here yet in Trump Land is Walmart and 319 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 2: Target and hobby lobby and every other big retailer starts 320 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 2: ordering their stuff for Christmas in May, the first week 321 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 2: of May. It arrives in July, and goes on sale 322 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 2: in late September. So all that holiday merch that all 323 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 2: these companies are going to be flooding into America. They're 324 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 2: rushing to do a lot of things now so that 325 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 2: they don't get, you know, caught up in a few 326 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 2: weeks with much higher prices for consumers. And I think 327 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 2: that this is something that we just have not we 328 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 2: have not processed this appropriately in the market yet, because 329 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 2: this is kind of poisonous. It's kind of really super dumb. 330 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: Right, they completely insane tariffs I want to talk about. 331 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: We're Chuck Schumer is right now on Sunday shows. Well, 332 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: I think this is important. It's important because, like you know, 333 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: I was texting with an activist friend of ours in 334 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: Wisconsin who was saying, you know, they have a big 335 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: election in Wisconsin. The Supreme Court judge Ship talked about 336 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: it on Substack when we did a subset show together 337 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: on Friday. 338 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 2: Not which people seem to like a lot. I know, 339 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 2: while we're back with you folks on. 340 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,479 Speaker 1: Friday Fridays, on Mondays. 341 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 2: On any others all the days of the week. 342 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: On YouTube's what we talked about, which I think you know, 343 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 1: is this big Wisconsin judge Rays and I was talking 344 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: to I always feel like I see protest, but I 345 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 1: live in a blue city in a blue state. Have 346 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: you seen any protests? 347 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 2: For you, I live in a blue city in a 348 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,959 Speaker 2: red state, but I have not seen any protests at scale. 349 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 2: But I will tell you two quick stories. This weekend 350 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 2: down in Annapolina Luna's district in Clearwater, Florida, our friend 351 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 2: Whitney Fox and Eric Swalwell did a town hall because 352 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 2: Annapolinaluta won't do it, and she lives in the district 353 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 2: in Florida with the highest per capita number of Social 354 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 2: Security recipients in the country, and she refuses to meet 355 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 2: with them and answer their questions. They ended up with 356 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 2: these people crawling the walls. In Tallahassee this weekend, a 357 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 2: group not with it, not with any leadership from any 358 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 2: of the visiting congressmen, but a group got together to 359 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 2: ask Congressman Neil Dunn to meet with them. He refused, 360 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 2: and they had about three hundred people at a VFW 361 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 2: hall here in Tallahassee. Because this is an area with 362 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 2: a lot of veterans, it's an area with a lot 363 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 2: of folks on social Security, and they're not getting answers 364 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 2: from the Republicans. I think the Republicans do not understand 365 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 2: what's happening these meetings and these town halls that they're 366 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 2: blowing off, that they've been told by the leadership in 367 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,479 Speaker 2: the Republican Party, don't do it. You don't have to 368 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 2: do it. These people are nobodies. You can ignore them. 369 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 2: I think they're realizing you can't ignore all these folks. 370 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 2: You can't just say it's all it's all astro turf. 371 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 2: There's nobody real here that's bothered by this. Now, folks, 372 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 2: there's some real folks that are bothered by it, that 373 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 2: are scared of it, that are every day right now 374 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 2: looking at you know, whether or not they're going to 375 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 2: be able to eat next week, and they are, they 376 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 2: are terrified. 377 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: I've run into a bunch of different protests just walking 378 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: down the street, run into protests. I have friends who 379 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,360 Speaker 1: protest every weekend, so that seems like a big deal 380 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: to me. And then the other thing that I'm seeing, 381 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: and again, you know, this is all anecdote at all, right, 382 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: but I think there's a lot of people who are 383 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: sort of starting to tune in, which is in my 384 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 1: mind good. I think there's a lot of feeling that, 385 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: you know, this wasn't exactly what they thought. And you know, 386 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: I think that Trump really benefited from this amnesia from 387 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: the pandemic, sure, and so people sort of didn't remember 388 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: what he was like. And now people seem angrier than 389 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: they did, even because remember, he had sort of very 390 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: normal poll numbers when he was first reelected, even much 391 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: better poll numbers than he had the first time. And 392 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: I think there's a feeling now I think people sort 393 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 1: of see it. 394 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 2: I could not agree more. I think people right now 395 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 2: are having a really tough time reconciling the promises of 396 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 2: Trump for economic stability and prosperity and everything he's done. 397 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 2: And I don't mean this, folks, just as a critique 398 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 2: of Trump, even though it is. But everything Donald Trump 399 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 2: promised to do that would be motivating and economically helpful 400 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 2: to his own people, to his own base, to his 401 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,719 Speaker 2: own voters, he has done the exact opposite over and 402 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 2: over again. That is hurting him. I think it's relevant 403 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 2: to the damage that he's doing to himself politically and 404 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 2: to his people. I don't see if you're a Maga 405 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 2: voter right now, Yes, to troll the Libs and to 406 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 2: own the Libs and all that other garbage, you're going 407 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,239 Speaker 2: to say. No, Trump is perfect. I'm so happy. But 408 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,400 Speaker 2: those numbers are not showing up in the survey work, 409 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 2: in the polling. They are very unhappy on the economic front, 410 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 2: on the trade war. That is becoming something that is 411 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 2: very hard for them to articulate and argue even to themselves. 412 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, talk to me about what you're seeing with that, 413 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: because that is really interesting. 414 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 2: We came out of the field this weekend and Wisconsin 415 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 2: related and the data really Yes to Trump voters still 416 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 2: love Trump. They love Trump. Trump voters love Donald Trump. 417 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,239 Speaker 2: But when you describe the trade war policies that are 418 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 2: hitting them in the face, they are angry. They are 419 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 2: scared to death. They are especially if they are working 420 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 2: or working middle class voters, especially in agriculture or in 421 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 2: heavy industry. And that's you know, that's and that's a 422 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 2: meaningful thing in Wisconsin. That's motorcycles, that's car, that's auto 423 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 2: parts and auto you know, infrastructure stuff. They are really scared. 424 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: This is something from what I understand the polling I 425 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: have seen. My sense is this, they hate Elon. 426 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 2: Yes, let me take this to the next phase. They 427 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 2: think Elon is a weirdo. They blame him for the 428 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,360 Speaker 2: chaos in Washington. They think he has caused this, and 429 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 2: they're starting to believe that Elon Musk is hurting Donald Trump. 430 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 2: As we know, there is nothing in the world that 431 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 2: Trump folks are more sensitive to than anything that hurts 432 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 2: Donald Trump. He has benefited, I think, a little bit 433 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 2: from Elon as a buffer for a little while. But 434 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 2: I also think that that buffer has a limit. It's 435 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 2: got It's like a filter that gets full eventually, and 436 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,120 Speaker 2: and you know you're gonna have to replace it. And 437 00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 2: does Elon control Trump because of the money and everything else? Yeah, 438 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 2: there's a big argument for that. Does Trump have a 439 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 2: self preservation instinct like no other creature I've ever seen 440 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 2: in politics? You bet he does. There's going to come 441 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 2: a day soon when Susie wils has had five seconds 442 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 2: alone with Trump and she says, mister President, we all 443 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,719 Speaker 2: love Elon so much. We're very worried he's hurting you. 444 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 2: And here is Tony Fabrizio on the phone to tell 445 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 2: you how much Elon is hurting you, wouldn't you like 446 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 2: to have a majority in Congress for the last two 447 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 2: years of your term because if you don't, this is 448 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 2: going to kill you. And look, Trump does a lot 449 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 2: of irrational things, but when it comes to protecting his 450 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 2: own interest, he is highly rational. And I think that's 451 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 2: where we're going to end up. Your guess is as 452 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 2: good as mine. But if Elon thinks that the Wilson 453 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 2: rule of politics, of everything Trump touches dies has ever failed, 454 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 2: he is mistaken. He can take the same whack all 455 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 2: these other people have taken. It's not going to be hard. 456 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 2: And Trump will just say one day Elon was very success, 457 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 2: We thank him for his service, and that for Trump 458 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 2: is like the nicest way he can end it. And 459 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,640 Speaker 2: Elon has to realize that's the nicest way it could 460 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 2: possibly end for him. There's another way where Trump is 461 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 2: punitive and nasty and shit gets ugly. While most people 462 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 2: think that would never happen. Trump is also the scorpion 463 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 2: on the back of the frog over and over again 464 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 2: in our history, where even people who he depended on, 465 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 2: who depended on him, who had this relationship with him, 466 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 2: who thought I'm invulnerable. I'll never be I'll never be 467 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 2: out of the picture. Ask Steve Bannon how that worked out. 468 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 2: Ask Kelly Ann how that worked out. As Roger Stone, 469 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 2: how that worked out. They have a value when they 470 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 2: have a value, and when they don't have a value, 471 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 2: he slits their throats and throws them off the back 472 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 2: of the boat for the sharks. 473 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: Michael AS Roth is the president of Wesleyan University and 474 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: the author of The Student, A Short History, Welcome Too 475 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: Fast Politics. 476 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 4: Michael Roth, glad to be here. 477 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: I'm so happy to have you here. So you're the 478 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: president of Wesleyan University, where I briefly went to college. 479 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: Do I get to be an alumni even if I 480 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: dropped out? 481 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 4: You know why the power is invested in me? I 482 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 4: make you an alum. 483 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: Oh my god, amazing. I'm steps away from an honorary 484 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: bachelor's which is the dream for me. This is a 485 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: moment when Trump world has It's funny because it's like 486 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: my grandfather was arrested by McCarthy the house in American Hoovac. 487 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: He was jailed, he was blacklisted, and the red scare 488 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: was this war on the intelligentsia. We should have seen 489 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 1: this coming the war on academic institutions. But he's here, 490 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: and it is loud and it is real, and you 491 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,479 Speaker 1: are the only college president so far to have stood 492 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 1: up for it. Why are you different than everyone else? 493 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 4: It feels like the we're questions for passoversion. 494 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: That's right. 495 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 4: You know, there are others who spoken a few. Patricia Maguire, 496 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 4: who's the president of Trinity Washington University is a college 497 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 4: in Washington, d C. She's been very vocal and very 498 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 4: thoughtful in her opposition to these policies. And there's a 499 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,199 Speaker 4: guy named Michael gave In at his Delta College and 500 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 4: in the Midwest Community College. I want to make sure 501 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 4: that these guys have been fighting, and they they're at 502 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 4: small places and standing up. 503 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 2: For a trait. 504 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 4: And the President Princeton, he came out with an article 505 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 4: in Atlantic this week talking about the danger of the 506 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 4: Trump administration's intervention in Columbia. I'm not entirely alone, but 507 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 4: I am interested in Moline. How many of the folks 508 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 4: in the press are interested in what we were wearing 509 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 4: when we were attacked kind of thing I mean focuses 510 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 4: on like why are president is not responding rather and 511 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 4: why is the government behaving like a tyrannical would be 512 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 4: totalitarian regime. 513 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: That's to be I agree, and that contempt prior to 514 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: investigation is uncalled for. I'm glad to see Princeton now, 515 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: especially because you know a lot of these Ivy League 516 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: institutions have enormous endowments, right, which are set up to 517 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: get an institution through a period like this. We may 518 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 1: have lost sight of that, but they're not for swimming 519 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: pools and stadiums, therefore protecting taught. 520 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 4: Well they are, But you know, I think the trade 521 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 4: off that any school has to go through is that 522 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 4: the endowment is supposed to be there forever, and so 523 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 4: if you spend it in a sustainable way, it keeps 524 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,959 Speaker 4: up with inflation and with your spending. So you can 525 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 4: give one thousand dollars gift, you spend a couple of 526 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 4: bucks every year, it's still one thousand dollars, still generating 527 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 4: a couple of bucks every year. If you spend five 528 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 4: hundred all of a sudden, you get through a rainy day, 529 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 4: then you're not going to ever recoup that initial gift. 530 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 4: So I think that schools do have a trade off. 531 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 4: I say that knowing that some of the schools are 532 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 4: extraordinarily wealthy, and that they do have resources. But one 533 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 4: of the interesting things about this is that people are 534 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 4: being becoming more aware that how invested the United States 535 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 4: government has been in the research dimension of higher education, 536 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 4: and that has served the country really well. I mean 537 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 4: in terms of creating new drugs and new technology, transportation, commerce, 538 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,479 Speaker 4: and all kinds of ways in which the pact between 539 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 4: the government and the university has been we will fund 540 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 4: a lot of stuff for you guys. You can have 541 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 4: the freedom to do the research you want, but many 542 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 4: of the byproducts of that research will go on to 543 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 4: contribute to the public good. And over many many years now, 544 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,479 Speaker 4: whoever was the president could have been a Republican. They 545 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 4: more or less respected that, you know, in other words, 546 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,959 Speaker 4: not telling people how to do their research, because the 547 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 4: government doesn't know how to do the research, but to 548 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 4: give money so it happens, because it makes America stronger, 549 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 4: makes the economy stronger, makes science better, makes medicine better. 550 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 4: And what Trump has done, quite extraordinary, really is to 551 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 4: say I don't give a shit about that. You guys 552 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 4: are nice to me, I'm gonna take your money away. 553 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 4: And it's been frighteningly easy so far for him to 554 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 4: do that, because up until now people have just respected 555 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 4: the norm that you don't do that. And of course 556 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 4: President Trump his respect for norms is very small. 557 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: So we're both choose and liberal ish. I mean, I 558 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: would say I think of myself as you know, liberal, 559 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: but not wildly liberal. What Trump the administration they are 560 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: rationale for deporting people, for taking away grants. Is anti Semitism. Okay, 561 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: talk me through this. 562 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, it's nonsense. I mean, it's a nonsense 563 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 4: reason I tweeted yesterday. I think it was that the 564 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 4: United States has decided to cut off all to Israel 565 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,719 Speaker 4: because there was a massive demonstration in Jerusalem. You know, 566 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 4: Jews demonstrate. That's one of the things we do, you know, 567 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 4: we go to demonstrations. And you know, my daughter texted 568 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 4: me last I hope she wasn't myself. My daughter texted 569 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 4: us last night and said, look, mommy daddy. She's twenty seven. 570 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 4: But she said, the rabbi that bod mitzn Me is 571 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 4: leading a protest at Foley Square. And there was a 572 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 4: Rabbi Goldenberg, you know, leading a protest. Now I'm gonna 573 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 4: say Rabbi Goldenberg is anti Semitic, you've got to be 574 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 4: out of your mind. On the other hand, of course 575 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 4: there's anti sematism, and things at Columbia were Jews last year, 576 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 4: especially for many Jews, were really difficult. And I think 577 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 4: that the getting a handle on campus politics and the 578 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 4: rights of students, faculty, and staff both maneuver around a 579 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 4: campus without being intimidated. I think it's really important. And 580 00:31:55,480 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 4: a normal administration that was concerned about anti simptism would say, Okay, 581 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 4: what are you guys doing to make it better? And 582 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 4: they have done a whole bunch of things, maybe not 583 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 4: out of good maybe I don't know enough, but you 584 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 4: get to work together to improve the procedures at the 585 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 4: university so that when some antisemitic action happens, like a 586 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 4: Jewish spit on because he's Jewish, or Jewish kids are 587 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 4: not allowed to go through a certain part of campus 588 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 4: because they might be zion as well. You've got to 589 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 4: stop that from happening. And the government should help the 590 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 4: school stop that from happening. And I think that was 591 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 4: in process already. What we have here is I think 592 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 4: just the government flexing its muscles to show it can 593 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 4: really screw things up. The trin administration cares as much 594 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,479 Speaker 4: about antisemitism at Columbia as it cares about swimming records 595 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 4: at penn They just canceled a couple one hundred million 596 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 4: dollars of contracts with Penn univers Pennsylvania because a year 597 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 4: or two ago they had a trans woman swimmer. And 598 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 4: this is really saying, we can do whatever the heck 599 00:32:59,040 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 4: we want. 600 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: Four hundred million dollar grants at Colombia. Colombia has a hospital, 601 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: it has a medical school. You know, there's four hundred 602 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: million dollars. They're not grams for protests, right, they're grands 603 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: for stem cell research or I mean, so, I think 604 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: that's a really important point, Like none of what's happening 605 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: is actually affecting the things they even say it's affecting absolutely. 606 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 4: So what you have is you'll have all these Jewish 607 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 4: scientists getting fired because the funding went away, and others 608 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 4: getting fired, and you know, you're working on diabetes or 609 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 4: leukemia and your work's thus it's really quite astonishing. I 610 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 4: just was on a call this morning with some people 611 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 4: out on the West coast and they were saying, at 612 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 4: University of California, San Francisco, the medical school of the 613 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 4: University of California. They haven't gotten any payments from the 614 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 4: government since the inauguration. Now UCSF is deeply involved in 615 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 4: the most sophisticated kinds of cancer research, which means some 616 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 4: people are getting drugs and trials to see if they 617 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,959 Speaker 4: can cure their leukemia for their lung cancer, and then 618 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 4: the drug stops because there's no money. And so this 619 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 4: is such an extraordinary disruption of the best research system 620 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 4: in the world, you know, the one in America. I mean, 621 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 4: everybody around the world recognizes, some with envy, some with admiration, 622 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 4: that the scientific research ecosystem of the United States is 623 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,879 Speaker 4: the greatest, has been the greatest. But when you put 624 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 4: it under ideological threat like this, it sends a chill 625 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 4: through the entire international scientific community. 626 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: I want to talk about this, but I also want 627 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: to talk about Mood Khalil. He is a grad student 628 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: on a green card, married to a citizen pregnant. This 629 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: is the kind of thing where you may not like 630 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 1: the protests, you may not like you may not believe 631 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: in any of this, but you do not want people 632 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: in Louisiana camps not charged with anything but vibes. So 633 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:04,359 Speaker 1: what does this mean? 634 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,839 Speaker 4: Yeah, This is again an extraordinary abuse of power, and 635 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 4: the playbook is clear. They pick on someone who many 636 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 4: Americans would find distasteful. To find the politics of this 637 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:22,280 Speaker 4: guy distasteful, and just like the people they deported recently 638 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 4: against the court order, is a bad guy. You know, 639 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 4: he was engaged in protests that many Americans would find wrong. 640 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,720 Speaker 4: I find it wrong, But of course it's much worse 641 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 4: to have such a person subject to arrest and deportation 642 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,720 Speaker 4: because you don't like what they believe or do they think. 643 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 4: He didn't do anything criminal. He's not been accused of 644 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 4: doing anything criminal, and so what you have instead is 645 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 4: this ideological test being imposed on a permanent residence. They 646 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 4: seem to have thought he was still a student when 647 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 4: they came for him, and then change their story. And 648 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 4: then we have the nephrologist as I think she's a 649 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 4: kidney transplant specialist at Brown, who was sent back to Lebanon. 650 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 4: These are interventions in education meant to scare the hell 651 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,439 Speaker 4: out of people so that they don't stray too far 652 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 4: from the leader's ideology, and maybe working in that regard, 653 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 4: because I think it's that if they can take Maku 654 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 4: Khalil and just take them and put them in Louisiana 655 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 4: without any charges. What's to stop them from doing that 656 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 4: to anyone else? And we have heard other horror stories 657 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 4: of people being arrested or detained for a while with 658 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 4: very unclear as to why. The only thing we could 659 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:41,839 Speaker 4: do about is speak up about it and said, this 660 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 4: is not this is not the America we want to 661 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 4: live in. 662 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 1: Right, this is using the quest against anti Semitism to 663 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: advance as oratarianis. 664 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 4: So absolutely this is you know, anti anti semitism from 665 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 4: the Trump administration is a tool of convenience. I mean, 666 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 4: how many there aren't that many trans athletes. You can't 667 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 4: ride that horse wherever, you know, I mean, I can't 668 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 4: choose a group that many Americans find it hard to understand, 669 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 4: or an issue like trans women in high school sports. 670 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 4: Reasonable people may have different views about how fair it is, 671 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 4: but demonized group and then use the demonization of that 672 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 4: group to increase your own power. And that's what this 673 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,359 Speaker 4: anti anti semitism is doing, because you know they love 674 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 4: anti semis. It's extraordinary and I'm writing something about this 675 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,839 Speaker 4: now and for Jews to go along with this as 676 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 4: many are doing. I got the nastiest notes I've gotten about. 677 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 4: My interventions have been from other Jews because they hate 678 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 4: this Colia's views. And they said, well, if I hate them, 679 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 4: I must find a reason to silence him. Oh, you 680 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 4: don't need to find a reason to silence him. But 681 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 4: this is the authoritarian playbook, Emali. I think you do 682 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 4: trans people's anti anti semitism, and these are attacks on 683 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 4: civil society, on places like colleges and universities that have 684 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 4: independent sources of allegiance, information expression. You make them line up, 685 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 4: and then after that it'll be businesses like law firming. 686 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:13,720 Speaker 1: Well, the businesses seem delighted. The billionaires. I was really 687 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,279 Speaker 1: impressed with the cowardice of the billionaire class, Like these 688 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: people have millions of dollars, right, they are by definition above, 689 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,799 Speaker 1: you know, they can have citizenships, they can jump on airplanes. 690 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 1: Those guys were the first of coward They were like, 691 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: you know, is there a chance for a tax gut? Okay, 692 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: we love this guy. 693 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. 694 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,719 Speaker 4: They weren't encowering. They were lining up for the feedbay. 695 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 4: There's a lot of money to be made in an 696 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 4: administration that has send every signal that restraints on corruption 697 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 4: are gone. And so well, Columbia announced that it's Art 698 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 4: department is making a movie about the First Lady, just 699 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,280 Speaker 4: like Amazon, or make a huge donation to some fund, 700 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,320 Speaker 4: you know, the Donald Junior Fund for Trophy Animals or something. 701 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 4: These are guys realize a lot of money to be made, 702 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 4: and you know, they see what President Musk is doing 703 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,759 Speaker 4: and they want to get on board. And I do 704 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 4: think there will be others, you know, they haven't raised 705 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 4: their hands yet. I do think there'll be others who 706 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 4: will find it appalling to see these American freedoms eroded. 707 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 4: Not just universities, but it'll be libraries, It'll be purchase 708 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,240 Speaker 4: some synagogues and chambers of commerce. These are all parts 709 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 4: of civil society that they depend on the government for 710 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,760 Speaker 4: some things, just like we depend on the fire Department 711 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 4: and we depend on the fire Apartment. Doesn't mean we 712 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 4: all have to actually find out what the fire department 713 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:44,360 Speaker 4: chiefs politics are. We have independence and entanglement, but Trump 714 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,760 Speaker 4: is taking away the independence or means to take away 715 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 4: the independences. 716 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 1: So it seems so, what do you think is the 717 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:55,320 Speaker 1: best way for citizens to push back to protect American 718 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: norms and institutions organize? 719 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 4: I mean, I do think that people have to find 720 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 4: friends and allies and then allies who weren't their friends, 721 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 4: to defend this sector of freedom, the space of deliberation, 722 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:17,839 Speaker 4: conversation that shouldn't be squashed by governmental ideology. So I've 723 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,240 Speaker 4: been trying to talk as well to conservatives and people 724 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,760 Speaker 4: who think of themselves as really American patriots and believe 725 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 4: in American freedom rather than a central government that tells 726 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,839 Speaker 4: you what to do, because these, I think are going 727 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,479 Speaker 4: to be very important allies going forward. And that's hard 728 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,760 Speaker 4: because at universities, you know, a lot of people were 729 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 4: incentivized to be extraordinarily critical of the United States, and 730 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 4: you know, that's the way it goes, especially in my 731 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,279 Speaker 4: world of the humanities and interpret of social sciences. But 732 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 4: I think we see how important these freedoms have been. 733 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,640 Speaker 4: We've taken them for granted, at least I've taken them 734 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 4: for granted, and now I need to some may a 735 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 4: cult book, you know, like, yeah, I've been very critical 736 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,359 Speaker 4: of the United States, but I need those good old 737 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,759 Speaker 4: American values to protect me against the regime that is 738 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 4: really antithetical. 739 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:06,920 Speaker 2: To those values. 740 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 4: And I know, freedom of expression, freedom of inquiry, these 741 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 4: are things that a few years ago my smart friends 742 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:16,839 Speaker 4: on the left, and so there is no such thing 743 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 4: as freedom of inquery. It's always a product of the Panaptacon, 744 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 4: which it pushes surveillance down on people so that they 745 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 4: you know, I could do that stuff, you know, but gosh, 746 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,600 Speaker 4: we need good old American freedoms to defend ourselves against 747 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,960 Speaker 4: the central government that is so powerful and that is 748 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:34,680 Speaker 4: running amok. 749 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:41,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. Michael Ross, President of Wesleyan University, thank you. 750 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:41,240 Speaker 2: You're welcome. 751 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 4: Thanks for having me. 752 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 2: Weally drunk fast. Is it time for the moment of fuckery? 753 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 1: It is always time for the moment. So Rick Wilson, 754 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 1: what is your moment of fuckery? 755 00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 2: My moment of fuckery is I think one of the 756 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,799 Speaker 2: most callous and hardless and terrible things I've ever seen 757 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,480 Speaker 2: on Twitter. And I was around on Twitter for fourteen 758 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,759 Speaker 2: years until Elon banned me, so I've seen it all. 759 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,440 Speaker 1: Oh, that's right, you're no longer you're. 760 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been banned from Twitter for life, for just 761 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,600 Speaker 2: for now. I have two emails from Twitter. One says 762 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 2: unless you delete the tweet, you're suspended forever or indefinitely, 763 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,440 Speaker 2: and one says you're suspended for thirty days. I don't 764 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,799 Speaker 2: know which is which thirty day email came first. I 765 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,799 Speaker 2: don't know. I don't know. All I know is that 766 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,919 Speaker 2: Elon is a gutlass pussy. But anyway, moving on, he's 767 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,319 Speaker 2: also one of the cruelest and most heartless human beings 768 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,840 Speaker 2: I've ever seen, because he tweeted this weekend my son's 769 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:41,160 Speaker 2: Davier was killed by the woke mind virus. Molly, I think, 770 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 2: honest to God, the Rosetta stone, the fucking rosebud of 771 00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:49,600 Speaker 2: Elon Musk is that he has a trans kid. I 772 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 2: asked the question that like a year and a half 773 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 2: ago on in an article like who red Pilled Elon? 774 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,279 Speaker 2: And the longer I've considered it, the more I've come 775 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,520 Speaker 2: to understand that that is what has made him who 776 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:02,279 Speaker 2: the monster he is. And I got to tell you 777 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,439 Speaker 2: when I read that, I'm not on Twitter, but somebody 778 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,400 Speaker 2: else sent me a tweet from my friend Matti Timmer, 779 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,400 Speaker 2: who's lost a child to suicide two years ago. She 780 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,840 Speaker 2: and her husband Jeff are dear friends of mine and 781 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,080 Speaker 2: they were absolutely devastated, just heartbroken in a way. Maddie 782 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,160 Speaker 2: had I think the best response of anybody, and I 783 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,640 Speaker 2: saw on Twitter to it, she said, this is obviously 784 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:22,880 Speaker 2: from a man who has never actually lost a child, 785 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:25,719 Speaker 2: especially a grown child. Look, I hope that some shred 786 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:30,440 Speaker 2: of humanity in this guy someday emerges, because nobody benefits 787 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,479 Speaker 2: from that. It's just gratuitous and shitty, and it does 788 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,759 Speaker 2: get to a level in my mind where it's one 789 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,759 Speaker 2: more data point of why the richest man in the 790 00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,680 Speaker 2: world and the most powerful man in American government it 791 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,839 Speaker 2: is currently reposed in the figure of Elon Musk, who 792 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 2: is a guy of towering cruelty and horrendousness. 793 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:53,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, and also, you know, Vivian's on the fucking cover 794 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:59,640 Speaker 1: of teen Vogue and she fucking rules and she's killing it. 795 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:04,120 Speaker 2: And by the way, that article, Vivian's witty and together, 796 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,560 Speaker 2: I mean, this is not a dead child. 797 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:07,600 Speaker 1: Oh, she's great. 798 00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,839 Speaker 2: This is someone who is clever and smart and it's 799 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:12,520 Speaker 2: going to make a place in society. 800 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,799 Speaker 1: The reality is just this guy's a fucking asshole and 801 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:20,200 Speaker 1: he should leave his kid alone. And he just yes, 802 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:24,200 Speaker 1: she's awesome and she's very smart, and it's horrible that 803 00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,200 Speaker 1: she has to live through a father who is so 804 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,120 Speaker 1: profoundly shitty. 805 00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,080 Speaker 2: He is in the actual sense of the word monstrous. 806 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, and He deserves our iron for any number of things, 807 00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:40,279 Speaker 1: but one of them is how terrible he is to 808 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:40,840 Speaker 1: his daughter. 809 00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,400 Speaker 2: Normally we make some sort of witty thing about the 810 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,880 Speaker 2: whole bow and a fuckery, not this one. He's just 811 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 2: a bastard. 812 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:51,600 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in 813 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:57,240 Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best 814 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:01,640 Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If 815 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,720 Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend 816 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,360 Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.