WEBVTT - Truth

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<v Speaker 1>Christine is a longtime special ed teacher in the St.

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<v Speaker 1>Louis area. She remembers the day that her son Zack

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<v Speaker 1>introduced her to his new girlfriend. Her name was Sarah.

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<v Speaker 1>At this point, they had been dating a while and

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<v Speaker 1>Zach really likes her. Zach did tell me that she

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<v Speaker 1>was a nurse, so I did like that. You have

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<v Speaker 1>to be a caring person to be a nurse. Had

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<v Speaker 1>told her other things too. She lives in Illinois and

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<v Speaker 1>she loved dogs just like me. You may hear one

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<v Speaker 1>of them panting in the background here. I asked, Low,

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<v Speaker 1>how did you meet this girl? And then he said

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<v Speaker 1>e harmony? And I was like, oh, okay, brother. But

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<v Speaker 1>that skepticism disappeared when Sarah walked in the door one

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<v Speaker 1>autumn day in two thousand and eight, she just had

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<v Speaker 1>this right smile, just her eyes kind of gleam. She

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<v Speaker 1>said she was working at a St. Louis hospital, at

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<v Speaker 1>least for now. She wanted to work in the neo

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<v Speaker 1>natal unit of Children's hospital. She wanted to work with

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<v Speaker 1>the premier babies. She also said that she was a

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<v Speaker 1>camp counselor at the MSD Camp summer camp for kids

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<v Speaker 1>with muscular dysgraphy as a teacher. Christine loved the way

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<v Speaker 1>that Sarah was so dedicated to children, and I thought, wow,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a nice girl. At the time, Sarah was

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<v Speaker 1>twenty three years old, she was living back in her

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<v Speaker 1>hometown but commuting to St. Louis and dating Zach. Christine

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<v Speaker 1>thought that they were getting serious quickly, too quickly, but

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<v Speaker 1>she liked Sarah. Christine told us by the way that

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<v Speaker 1>Zach preferred for his mom to tell this story, she

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<v Speaker 1>got really close with me. We did shopping together, We

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<v Speaker 1>did a lot of stuff together that you would do

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<v Speaker 1>like with a daughter in law, you know, not maybe

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<v Speaker 1>so much the girlfriend. And unlike what Sarah told Aaron

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<v Speaker 1>Johnson that her parents were doctors or her college sweet

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<v Speaker 1>mates that she had leukemia, the story she told Christine

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<v Speaker 1>seemed to be, at least at first, the truth. She

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<v Speaker 1>said that she was really into skiing at Hidden Valley,

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<v Speaker 1>but not heading to the Olympics. And she talked about

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<v Speaker 1>her mom and dad. They got divorced when she was

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<v Speaker 1>really young, and she did not ever want to be divorced.

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<v Speaker 1>She made that clear. Her dad was a truck driver,

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<v Speaker 1>so she never got to see him. Her dad was

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<v Speaker 1>not in the picture much, but he did by her car.

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<v Speaker 1>While they were dating, she didn't seem to have a

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<v Speaker 1>warm relationship with her mom. Zach didn't offer the greatest

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<v Speaker 1>endorsement either. He described her as just cold. He used

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<v Speaker 1>a bad word. She would say, that's why I love you,

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<v Speaker 1>because you're so kind and you're just a total opposite

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<v Speaker 1>of my mom. The holidays came, we were baking Christmas cuckys,

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<v Speaker 1>and she were talking about her mom almost NonStop and

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<v Speaker 1>about how I am the exact opposite of her mom.

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<v Speaker 1>That December, she and Zack came over one evening and

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<v Speaker 1>said they had some news. Everyone sat down in the

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<v Speaker 1>living room on the sofa. She showed me her hand

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<v Speaker 1>with this ring and a big old smile. I believe

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<v Speaker 1>she started crying. Zach was recently divorced, and Christine was

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<v Speaker 1>glad her son had found someone who made him happy,

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<v Speaker 1>and most importantly, Sarah really seemed to care about Zack's kid,

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<v Speaker 1>who was just a year old at the time. Zach

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<v Speaker 1>had a brief marriage that didn't last, but the little

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<v Speaker 1>boy that came out of it was the light of

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<v Speaker 1>his grandmother's life. For Sarah, marrying Zach would be like

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<v Speaker 1>instant motherhood. She really liked this little ready made family

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<v Speaker 1>that she had was Zack. The even set for portraits Sarah,

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<v Speaker 1>Zach and his son for Christmas, and that's what she gave.

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<v Speaker 1>She gave everybody pictures. I said, wow, Sarah, you put

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of time an effort and spent a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of money, you know, for Christmas this year. And she goes,

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<v Speaker 1>she goes, well, I haven't had a family for Christmas,

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<v Speaker 1>and I just wanted it to be special. So everything

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<v Speaker 1>is wonderful. New Year's Eve is when things start to

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<v Speaker 1>fall apart. New Year's Eve, Sarah told her fiance something

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<v Speaker 1>about herself that she had been raped for reasons he

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't quite articulate. To his mom, Zach was skeptical. Something

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<v Speaker 1>about her story was just too implausible for him. He

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<v Speaker 1>just said something seemed really off about it. And I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know what it was, you know, he couldn't really

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<v Speaker 1>tell me what exactly about it was off. I'm like,

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<v Speaker 1>who lies about this? It has to be true. Nobody's

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<v Speaker 1>going to lie about something like that. And then I'm thinking,

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<v Speaker 1>for Sarah was right? Do you know? And uh so

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<v Speaker 1>he was like, I don't know. I said, oh, I

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<v Speaker 1>basically told him, don't ruin it. You know she's a

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<v Speaker 1>nice girl. The first week in January two thousand nine,

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<v Speaker 1>he broke off the engagement. Everybody was mad at Zach,

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<v Speaker 1>my dad, my mom, my brother, and my sister in law.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a really bad time for him because we

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<v Speaker 1>were all like, how did you do this? And she's

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<v Speaker 1>calling me and crying and I'm crying, and I'm like,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know what's wrong with him. I was team

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah all the way, and so is my mom and

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<v Speaker 1>my dad, and oh, everybody was like, how could you

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<v Speaker 1>do this to her? I mean, I really felt bad

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<v Speaker 1>for Zach. He held his ground. He said, I'm telling

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<v Speaker 1>you there's something about her that's just not right. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Laura Beale. You're listening to Sympathy Pains. This is episode

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<v Speaker 1>five Truth. In February of two thousand nine, Christine was

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<v Speaker 1>still stinging from her son's broken engagement. She had come

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<v Speaker 1>to already think of Sarah like a daughter in law,

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<v Speaker 1>and now she was out of her life. But Sarah

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't going to stay out of her life, not by

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<v Speaker 1>a long shot. Christine came home from work one afternoon

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<v Speaker 1>and pulled a plain white envelope out of her mailbox.

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<v Speaker 1>The return address was Sarah's, and I'm like, well, I

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<v Speaker 1>haven't heard from her a while. I wonder, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I had never received a piece of mail from her before.

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<v Speaker 1>There was no note, but something was tucked inside, a

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<v Speaker 1>picture of an ultrasound. Christine stared at the image in shock.

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah was pregnant, and even if Sarah wasn't going to

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<v Speaker 1>be your daughter in law, it didn't change the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that this was her grand baby. I immediately go to Zach,

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<v Speaker 1>what what's going on? What is this? He says, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think it's real. She's just upset that I broke

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<v Speaker 1>up with her, and I was like, oh my gosh,

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<v Speaker 1>you better marry her. He was adamant. He didn't believe

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<v Speaker 1>her anymore about anything. She's just trying to use this,

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<v Speaker 1>so we get back together again. He goes, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>think it's real. For the next few months, Chris Dean

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<v Speaker 1>and Sarah talked from time to time that summer. Sarah

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<v Speaker 1>said she was on vacation in southern California and she

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<v Speaker 1>went into a labor early and the baby was born

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<v Speaker 1>as a PREMI I was heartbroken that this baby was

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<v Speaker 1>born prematurely and is sitting there fighting for life. Sarah

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<v Speaker 1>named the newborn Isabella, the name Zach had picked out

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<v Speaker 1>if his son had been a girl, Isabella Christine. Her

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<v Speaker 1>middle name was after Zack's mom, and Sarah started a

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<v Speaker 1>blog to post updates on the baby. And I'm looking

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<v Speaker 1>at the blog all the time. There's pictures, and there's

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<v Speaker 1>like narratives that she wrote daily, like long narratives. I

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<v Speaker 1>was hanging onto every word. Christine's parents and friends were

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<v Speaker 1>glued to the blog too. The one person who wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>it was Zack. He wasn't even convinced there was a

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<v Speaker 1>baby at all. Actually, he told his mom that he

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<v Speaker 1>thought the snapshots were of different infants. I'm like, how

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<v Speaker 1>can you say that. Being so far away was tearing

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<v Speaker 1>Christine apart. She was my baby granddaughter, and I wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to see her. I knew I probably couldn't hold her,

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<v Speaker 1>but I wanted to see her and I wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>be there with her. She called Sarah. I just said

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<v Speaker 1>I'm leaving early in the morning, um and driving, And

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<v Speaker 1>I said I'll drive twenty four hours straight through. Later

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<v Speaker 1>that same night, Sarah called her back and says, I

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<v Speaker 1>have some horrible news for you. Isabella died in my

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<v Speaker 1>arms tonight. She just couldn't fight any longer. It was

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<v Speaker 1>like a bomb had just dropped on my head. I

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<v Speaker 1>was devastated. Christine mourned for months. She couldn't even attend

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<v Speaker 1>the funeral for little Isabella Christine because there wasn't one.

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<v Speaker 1>She spent months grieving the granddaughter she never met. Christmas

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<v Speaker 1>came around and Christine found a card from Sarah in

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<v Speaker 1>her mailbox and something else, pictures of a baby, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>six months old, and it says Merry Christmas from Sarah,

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<v Speaker 1>Adam and Isabella. Another bomb hits me. She tried to

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<v Speaker 1>reach Sarah in agony, but she didn't answer her messages.

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<v Speaker 1>Was this her Isabella? So then fast forward the next Christmas,

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<v Speaker 1>I get another Christmas collage and it is a little

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<v Speaker 1>girl and it says again, Merry Christmas from Sarah, Adam

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<v Speaker 1>and Isabella. Uh. Christine of course had no idea that.

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<v Speaker 1>In two thousand and seven, the year before Zack even

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<v Speaker 1>met Sarah, she had started a blog with a profile

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<v Speaker 1>picture of herself looking hugely pregnant. She said she was

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<v Speaker 1>a student nurse married to the most wonderful man in

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<v Speaker 1>the world named Adam. Staring at the picture on the

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<v Speaker 1>Christmas card, Christine thought that the baby girl looks strikingly

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<v Speaker 1>like her grandson. I'm like, oh my god, that is

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<v Speaker 1>my granddaughter. She called Sarah again. This time she answered,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, what is going on? I thought you said

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<v Speaker 1>the baby died. Sarah told her that the baby hadn't died,

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<v Speaker 1>but she didn't want her to be raised by parents

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<v Speaker 1>who weren't together like she'd been, that she had met

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<v Speaker 1>and married a guy who completed their family. I just,

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<v Speaker 1>I begged her. I said, I don't have to be grandma.

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<v Speaker 1>Can we meet at a park and just like I

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<v Speaker 1>could just be your friend, you know, I just want

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<v Speaker 1>to be in her life. It was sad, it was horrible.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm almost crying now. Sarah never sent another card.

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<v Speaker 1>It was like, your heart is out there somewhere, like

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<v Speaker 1>part of your heart is out there somewhere, and you

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<v Speaker 1>have no idea. A few more years went by. In

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<v Speaker 1>late summer two thousand seventeen, Sarah started texting Christine again.

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<v Speaker 1>The year before, in a parallel Sarah universe, she had

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<v Speaker 1>risen from her power chair at Camp Summit, ridden off

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<v Speaker 1>in a van when Christine got the text from Sarah.

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<v Speaker 1>She was sitting at a Mexican restaurant with her grandson

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<v Speaker 1>and a couple of his friends. Just the four of

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<v Speaker 1>us were there. We were waiting for our food. I

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<v Speaker 1>just I remember, she just starts texting me. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>how are you back? I mean, there was some small

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<v Speaker 1>talk before that, and she was like, are you still teaching?

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<v Speaker 1>And then of course I said, yes, I'm still teaching.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm fine. So how is Adam and Isabella? She said, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I have some bad news, and then she texted that

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<v Speaker 1>Isabella was killed in a car accident. Christine sat at

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<v Speaker 1>the table waiting for her food to arrive. Stunned. She

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<v Speaker 1>went through the rest of the meal in a daze.

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<v Speaker 1>She had lost her only granddaughter. Again, I said, can

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<v Speaker 1>I see some pictures of her, you know, before the accident,

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<v Speaker 1>and so she sent lots of pictures. A day or

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<v Speaker 1>two later, Sarah came over to Christine's house. She went

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<v Speaker 1>straight to the couch and then we just started hugging

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<v Speaker 1>each other and crying. She told me all of out,

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<v Speaker 1>and we boo hooed like her and I were hugging

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<v Speaker 1>each other, just bawling, bawling. A couple more years past

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<v Speaker 1>with Christine carrying around a granddaughter's sized hole in her heart.

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<v Speaker 1>Then in the spring of two tho, she got a

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<v Speaker 1>text from her son, You're not going to believe this,

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<v Speaker 1>but Sarah was on the Dr Phil show. I just

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<v Speaker 1>watched it. Told you guys, nobody believed me. That night,

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<v Speaker 1>after work, Christine called up the links on YouTube. My

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<v Speaker 1>like jaw was dropped the whole show. I could not

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<v Speaker 1>be leave what I was hearing. She was in my

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<v Speaker 1>house telling me that my grand baby died two times,

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<v Speaker 1>and it was the first time time I believed that

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<v Speaker 1>I did not have a granddaughter. Christine was livid, wounded.

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<v Speaker 1>She took my trust and people. At the same time,

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<v Speaker 1>she felt like Sarah needed therapy. At the end of

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<v Speaker 1>the show, it said that she was given a chance

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<v Speaker 1>to go to some place to go get some help.

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<v Speaker 1>But even as Christine was watching the video on YouTube,

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah had already left treatment and was back home. If

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah wasn't going to stop on her own, there were

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<v Speaker 1>now plenty of other people who were going to try

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<v Speaker 1>to make or see the truth. Chris Conrad is a stocky,

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<v Speaker 1>middle aged man with glasses and a high forehead. Today.

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<v Speaker 1>He's the city manager in Highland, Illinois. We talked one

0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.360
<v Speaker 1>day in his office on the first floor of city Hall,

0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.600
<v Speaker 1>a building with the kind of gingerbread trim that looks

0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.520
<v Speaker 1>more like a chalet seeing the Alps, and not a

0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:05.720
<v Speaker 1>small town in the Mississippi Valley. Highland was founded by

0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:10.520
<v Speaker 1>Swiss immigrants. They are pretty proud of their Swiss heritage. Searcy,

0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Switzerland is our sister city. Not a ton of controversy

0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:18.080
<v Speaker 1>in Highland. The day we spoke, Chris was getting ready

0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.280
<v Speaker 1>for the upcoming charity pie auction in the town square.

0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.960
<v Speaker 1>Before he was city manager, he was police chief, and

0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.360
<v Speaker 1>if you go all the way back to two thousand six,

0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:30.520
<v Speaker 1>he was a beat cup. That was the year he

0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:33.600
<v Speaker 1>got a call from the local FBI office about a

0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:39.160
<v Speaker 1>woman and a stolen quilt. They asked that we reached

0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:41.480
<v Speaker 1>out to her and find out what was going on.

0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:43.760
<v Speaker 1>Was there a part of you that that the FBI

0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:46.520
<v Speaker 1>has contacted me about a quilt? Well, you know, at

0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:48.560
<v Speaker 1>this point I had been an officer for six years,

0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:52.600
<v Speaker 1>and so I understood death by deception. Was he went

0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:55.520
<v Speaker 1>by her house and learned that she was away at college.

0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:57.880
<v Speaker 1>Had wait till the weekend when she was home, but

0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:00.200
<v Speaker 1>then ended up bringing her bringing her in to talking

0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:04.160
<v Speaker 1>to her about the issue. She seemed nervous. I remember

0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:06.840
<v Speaker 1>that seemed like any other college student that would be

0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:10.840
<v Speaker 1>talking to an officer, so I didn't necessarily think that

0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:16.200
<v Speaker 1>was out of line. Sitting at the police station, she

0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:21.560
<v Speaker 1>said this originally started as doing research for a school

0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:25.480
<v Speaker 1>project on s M A, and that she was a

0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:29.920
<v Speaker 1>nursing student that in doing that research, she started pretending

0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.800
<v Speaker 1>to have it and then created another persona on the

0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:35.520
<v Speaker 1>chat room that she was the parent of a child

0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.359
<v Speaker 1>that had it. She didn't really have, didn't really have

0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:40.399
<v Speaker 1>an excuse as to why she did it. She was

0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:43.720
<v Speaker 1>embarrassed that she had done it, seemed to acknowledge that

0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:46.560
<v Speaker 1>had gone too far. I remember thinking as I was

0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:49.680
<v Speaker 1>talking to her that she was a little socially awkward

0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:52.960
<v Speaker 1>and not a psychologist. But I remember thinking to myself

0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:57.000
<v Speaker 1>that it was probably she enjoyed the attention that came

0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:00.840
<v Speaker 1>from it. They didn't press charges, but he told her

0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:03.040
<v Speaker 1>he was going to call the college and tell them

0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:14.040
<v Speaker 1>she needed a referral for counseling. That day, he sent

0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:17.040
<v Speaker 1>an email to Andrea Smith, the computer whiz who had

0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:20.560
<v Speaker 1>found out that Sarah was lying. He told Andrea that

0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.560
<v Speaker 1>he had called a former teacher of hers and it learned.

0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:27.560
<v Speaker 1>As he wrote to Andrea, Sarah was always slightly different

0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:31.199
<v Speaker 1>and never really fit in with any particular crowd, just

0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:35.080
<v Speaker 1>had a lot of problems socially. He also said he

0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:37.800
<v Speaker 1>was going to speak with Sarah's mom about, as he

0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:42.560
<v Speaker 1>called it, issues that needed to be addressed professionally. I

0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:45.040
<v Speaker 1>don't know if this was the first time someone said

0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.919
<v Speaker 1>Sarah needed treatment, but it certainly wouldn't be the last.

0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:50.760
<v Speaker 1>And I don't know how her mom reacted to the advice.

0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:54.440
<v Speaker 1>Mental health issues come with such stigma that people are

0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:58.359
<v Speaker 1>often afraid to acknowledge a problem exists, even to themselves,

0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.320
<v Speaker 1>especially in a small town where you can't easily fade

0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:07.119
<v Speaker 1>into anonymity. Even when people do seek therapy, they often

0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:10.879
<v Speaker 1>face a shortage of providers or insurance that views mental

0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:14.479
<v Speaker 1>health coverage as some kind of luxury. The fact that

0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:17.600
<v Speaker 1>Sarah didn't get treatment right then and there isn't all

0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:20.879
<v Speaker 1>that surprising. In a given year, more than half of

0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:26.440
<v Speaker 1>adults experiencing mental illness won't receive care for it. Back

0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:30.640
<v Speaker 1>in South Carolina, Andrea was thrilled to get the quilt back.

0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:33.159
<v Speaker 1>I sent an email out to the s M a

0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.280
<v Speaker 1>support chat and asked everybody to write a little thank

0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:38.760
<v Speaker 1>you note to Officer Conrad and send pictures of the

0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:41.040
<v Speaker 1>kids send them to me, and I put together a

0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:43.840
<v Speaker 1>big box and sent it to him. So in two

0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:47.760
<v Speaker 1>thousand nineteen, when Andrea teamed up with Liz and Bethany,

0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.040
<v Speaker 1>she knew who she was going to call. By then,

0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:55.960
<v Speaker 1>Officer Conrad had been promoted to Chief Conrad. He referred

0:19:56.040 --> 0:20:02.160
<v Speaker 1>Andrea to a member of his force, the Tromon. David

0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:06.480
<v Speaker 1>Brin's with the Highland Police Department. Tall and friendly, He's

0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.560
<v Speaker 1>been a policeman for about thirteen years. Came down to

0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:13.159
<v Speaker 1>this area for college and like the area so just

0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:16.480
<v Speaker 1>happened to stay. He was named Officer of the Year

0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:20.080
<v Speaker 1>once by the local Optimists Club. By the time he

0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:24.280
<v Speaker 1>talked to Andrea, David Brines already knew about Sarah had

0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:27.879
<v Speaker 1>been getting calls from Liz and Bethany. To investigate. He

0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:32.119
<v Speaker 1>obtained records from the Young Survival Coalition, the breast cancer

0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:35.280
<v Speaker 1>charity that had sponsored the bike ride where she met Liz.

0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:39.240
<v Speaker 1>I found out that the bike had been donated to her.

0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:42.080
<v Speaker 1>So at that point we realized that we did have

0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:44.840
<v Speaker 1>a fraud, but the crime was out of state, out

0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.120
<v Speaker 1>of his local jurisdiction. So in the summer of two

0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:54.200
<v Speaker 1>thousand nineteen, he called the FBI investigators discovered another stolen bike.

0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:59.520
<v Speaker 1>Sarah had ordered a bicycle off of the eBay and

0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:02.480
<v Speaker 1>I said, those were several thousand dollars. It was sent

0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:06.359
<v Speaker 1>through the postal service after she ordered it in February,

0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:09.360
<v Speaker 1>but she told the seller it never arrived and got

0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:13.080
<v Speaker 1>her money back. In doing so, she committed mail fraud.

0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:18.520
<v Speaker 1>At that point we had a federal crime. The case

0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:23.359
<v Speaker 1>was now in the hands of a federal prosecutor. Lukeweisler

0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.160
<v Speaker 1>I am an assistant United States Attorney in the Southern

0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:28.800
<v Speaker 1>District of Illinois. I've been in this office for about

0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:31.720
<v Speaker 1>two years. Before that, I was in private practice for

0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:35.200
<v Speaker 1>about six years. Luke is a young guy, late thirties

0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:38.399
<v Speaker 1>who coaches the basketball and soccer teams of his three

0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:42.240
<v Speaker 1>young boys. He grew up in Springfield, Missouri, the youngest

0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:44.960
<v Speaker 1>of four, where his dad was a pharmacist and his

0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:48.560
<v Speaker 1>mother was a teacher. He himself taught middle school math

0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:51.480
<v Speaker 1>for two years in the Rio Grand Valley before he

0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:54.600
<v Speaker 1>went to law school. It was in law school that

0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:57.560
<v Speaker 1>he heard a federal prosecutor talk about how his job

0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:02.040
<v Speaker 1>protects people. It inspired him. Every day here, I am

0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:05.280
<v Speaker 1>pushed to do the right thing for the right reasons,

0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:09.320
<v Speaker 1>and so you know, this is a job where I

0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:11.920
<v Speaker 1>feel like I can really make a difference, and that's

0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:16.760
<v Speaker 1>that's why I'm here. He specializes in white collar crimes, corruption,

0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:20.399
<v Speaker 1>money laundering, identity theft. Now that I've been to this

0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:24.159
<v Speaker 1>job for a little while, I am more keenly aware

0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:27.160
<v Speaker 1>of just the amount of fraud that that takes place

0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:31.240
<v Speaker 1>in the world. Being a part of the way to

0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:33.800
<v Speaker 1>confront that and the way to to resolve it for

0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:36.119
<v Speaker 1>people is a really big deal because it it is

0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:40.080
<v Speaker 1>something that has a tremendous impact on people's lives. But

0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:42.719
<v Speaker 1>he had never heard of a case quite like the

0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:45.360
<v Speaker 1>one that landed on his desk. In July of two

0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:49.040
<v Speaker 1>thousand nine, the head of the fraud unit came into

0:22:49.080 --> 0:22:53.840
<v Speaker 1>his office and said, you know, there's there's a new

0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:57.200
<v Speaker 1>case that I want you to handle. There's a woman

0:22:57.280 --> 0:23:02.800
<v Speaker 1>who has faked breast cancer and muscular dystrophe, has most

0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:06.680
<v Speaker 1>likely defrauded some nonprofits. You mentioned that that she had

0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:11.480
<v Speaker 1>largely confessed to the conduct on national television. I think

0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:16.119
<v Speaker 1>my reaction was probably the same as as most people

0:23:16.200 --> 0:23:19.359
<v Speaker 1>that first hear about this case. There's just kind of

0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:23.960
<v Speaker 1>disbelief about what happened. He started looking into the evidence

0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:27.840
<v Speaker 1>that FBI agents and postal inspectors had gathered. When you

0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:31.120
<v Speaker 1>really think about what it takes to commit that fraud,

0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:36.760
<v Speaker 1>that she actually went to a camp, actually allowed counselors

0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:41.239
<v Speaker 1>at that camp to bathe her, to feed her, I

0:23:41.240 --> 0:23:44.159
<v Speaker 1>mean to to for those counselors to learn after the

0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:46.320
<v Speaker 1>fact that she was capable of doing all those things

0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:50.320
<v Speaker 1>on her own, that is just devastating. It went from

0:23:50.359 --> 0:23:53.359
<v Speaker 1>a case that I guess, on its face just had

0:23:53.400 --> 0:23:58.040
<v Speaker 1>some bizarre details into a case that was really worth pursuing.

0:23:58.560 --> 0:24:01.520
<v Speaker 1>He had seen his share of medicare scams and fake

0:24:01.640 --> 0:24:05.600
<v Speaker 1>go fund me accounts. This was different. I don't believe

0:24:05.600 --> 0:24:10.080
<v Speaker 1>that her her primary or soul objective anyway, was just

0:24:10.240 --> 0:24:14.080
<v Speaker 1>to obtain money. In most of our cases, that is

0:24:14.080 --> 0:24:17.240
<v Speaker 1>the soul objective, and it's the soul objective. Unusually a

0:24:17.240 --> 0:24:20.720
<v Speaker 1>pretty grand scale, hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars

0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:23.480
<v Speaker 1>are usually at stake. This was not the case here,

0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:26.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, based purely on dollars, it almost wouldn't be

0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:33.040
<v Speaker 1>a federal case. The law says that you can't physically

0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:36.199
<v Speaker 1>hurt another person and you can't take their money, but

0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:39.879
<v Speaker 1>you can take their trust, their love, their faith and

0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:44.560
<v Speaker 1>people and crush it. Luke saw that Sarah seemed to

0:24:44.640 --> 0:24:48.480
<v Speaker 1>choose communities and people who were the most vulnerable and

0:24:48.560 --> 0:24:52.520
<v Speaker 1>the most giving. They're not going to question if somebody's

0:24:52.520 --> 0:24:54.760
<v Speaker 1>in a wheelchair whether or not that person can walk.

0:24:54.920 --> 0:24:57.480
<v Speaker 1>You know, if somebody is going to have the appearance

0:24:57.600 --> 0:25:01.239
<v Speaker 1>of having gone through chemotherapy, they're not going to question that.

0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:05.480
<v Speaker 1>And she exploited that empathy that they have the emotional

0:25:05.520 --> 0:25:11.920
<v Speaker 1>harm here dwarfed what the financial harm was. Something else

0:25:12.040 --> 0:25:15.320
<v Speaker 1>nagged at him too. He walked me through her biggest

0:25:15.400 --> 0:25:18.399
<v Speaker 1>crime in the eyes of the law, stealing the bike

0:25:18.520 --> 0:25:21.560
<v Speaker 1>she ordered off eBay. It was worth more than four

0:25:21.600 --> 0:25:24.960
<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars, so she used her mom's credit card to

0:25:25.160 --> 0:25:30.159
<v Speaker 1>order it. She received that bicycle and then claimed that

0:25:30.200 --> 0:25:33.760
<v Speaker 1>she didn't so she disputed the transaction when when she

0:25:33.800 --> 0:25:38.040
<v Speaker 1>actually did receive the bike and was ultimately reimbursed for

0:25:38.160 --> 0:25:41.639
<v Speaker 1>that money. What really bothered him more than what she

0:25:41.720 --> 0:25:44.840
<v Speaker 1>did was when she did it. She was on Dr

0:25:44.920 --> 0:25:49.040
<v Speaker 1>Phil in April of two thousand. May of two thousand

0:25:49.080 --> 0:25:52.680
<v Speaker 1>and nineteen is when that dispute occurred on the credit card.

0:25:53.359 --> 0:25:56.680
<v Speaker 1>After she was on Dr Phil, vowing to do whatever

0:25:56.720 --> 0:25:59.560
<v Speaker 1>it took to change her life, she stole a bicycle

0:26:00.160 --> 0:26:03.600
<v Speaker 1>and after Dr Phil she signed up for a charity

0:26:03.680 --> 0:26:06.439
<v Speaker 1>swim event, putting her back in the midst of the

0:26:06.520 --> 0:26:08.919
<v Speaker 1>kind of people she had a history of lying to.

0:26:09.960 --> 0:26:13.200
<v Speaker 1>Luke couldn't force Sarah to get help, but he could

0:26:13.240 --> 0:26:17.080
<v Speaker 1>do something to protect more people from getting hurt. This

0:26:17.160 --> 0:26:19.840
<v Speaker 1>was something that she wasn't going to be deterred from

0:26:19.880 --> 0:26:24.160
<v Speaker 1>doing without some sort of intervention beyond what had been

0:26:24.160 --> 0:26:26.240
<v Speaker 1>done to that point, and what had been done at

0:26:26.280 --> 0:26:30.200
<v Speaker 1>that point was significant. She was somebody that that wasn't

0:26:30.200 --> 0:26:36.160
<v Speaker 1>going to be deterred without prosecution. By December of two

0:26:36.200 --> 0:26:40.320
<v Speaker 1>thousand nineteen, I had already met Liz and Bethany. I

0:26:40.440 --> 0:26:44.000
<v Speaker 1>knew the FEDS were investigating, so I sent Sarah a

0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:46.479
<v Speaker 1>text and asked her if she would speak with me.

0:26:47.280 --> 0:26:50.800
<v Speaker 1>She answered, I'm not interested in doing a story. I've

0:26:50.800 --> 0:26:54.399
<v Speaker 1>been working to put this behind me. The next day,

0:26:54.560 --> 0:26:57.199
<v Speaker 1>I asked her if she would reconsider telling her I

0:26:57.280 --> 0:27:02.040
<v Speaker 1>wanted to hear her context, explanation, regrets, anything that would

0:27:02.080 --> 0:27:06.119
<v Speaker 1>help me understand what she had done. She wrote back,

0:27:06.640 --> 0:27:10.520
<v Speaker 1>It's in the past and nothing positive will come from

0:27:10.600 --> 0:27:21.080
<v Speaker 1>rehashing the past. For over a year, I've reached out

0:27:21.119 --> 0:27:24.920
<v Speaker 1>to Sarah, Sarah's former classmates and members of her family.

0:27:25.480 --> 0:27:28.399
<v Speaker 1>Few of them responded, and none would go on tape.

0:27:29.359 --> 0:27:32.120
<v Speaker 1>One former friend told me she felt bad for Sarah's

0:27:32.160 --> 0:27:34.879
<v Speaker 1>family and didn't want to seem like she was piling on.

0:27:35.640 --> 0:27:39.880
<v Speaker 1>Highland is a small town people talk. I flipped through

0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:43.280
<v Speaker 1>old yearbooks from Highland High School, hoping images of the

0:27:43.359 --> 0:27:47.159
<v Speaker 1>teenage Sarah might offer hints to the adults she would become.

0:27:48.040 --> 0:27:51.040
<v Speaker 1>As a junior, she joined a health promotion group called

0:27:51.119 --> 0:27:53.960
<v Speaker 1>Life Savers and was cast in a production of The

0:27:53.960 --> 0:27:57.760
<v Speaker 1>Wizard of Oz. The last page of her senior yearbook

0:27:57.800 --> 0:28:01.840
<v Speaker 1>shows a photo of her walking across the age of graduation, grinning,

0:28:02.119 --> 0:28:05.479
<v Speaker 1>shaking hands with a school board member. She looks like

0:28:05.560 --> 0:28:08.439
<v Speaker 1>any other graduate and a cap and gown, ready to

0:28:08.480 --> 0:28:11.800
<v Speaker 1>go into the world. Zoom in on the photo and

0:28:11.880 --> 0:28:14.960
<v Speaker 1>you can see that her right ankle is strapped into

0:28:15.000 --> 0:28:18.920
<v Speaker 1>a fracture boot all of us are products of where

0:28:19.000 --> 0:28:21.919
<v Speaker 1>we come from, but from the outside, it's hard to

0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:26.439
<v Speaker 1>know what goes on inside of family. Sarah's aunt, the

0:28:26.480 --> 0:28:30.120
<v Speaker 1>one who spoke with Liz and Brian Hickock's exchange polite

0:28:30.200 --> 0:28:32.840
<v Speaker 1>text messages with me, but didn't want to speak on

0:28:32.880 --> 0:28:36.040
<v Speaker 1>the phone. She told me Sarah's not a mean person,

0:28:36.520 --> 0:28:39.760
<v Speaker 1>just a young woman who wanted to be loved and accepted.

0:28:40.720 --> 0:28:44.240
<v Speaker 1>She wrote that Sarah didn't have enough self worth to

0:28:44.360 --> 0:28:47.720
<v Speaker 1>believe that she could make friends by just being herself.

0:28:48.440 --> 0:28:53.000
<v Speaker 1>What Sarah really needed, her aunt said, was family. She

0:28:53.080 --> 0:28:56.520
<v Speaker 1>wanted what her cousins had. She wrote, families to have

0:28:56.680 --> 0:29:00.719
<v Speaker 1>fun and spend time together, care for one another, travel together,

0:29:01.040 --> 0:29:05.680
<v Speaker 1>and build dreams. Reading this reminded me that in Sarah's

0:29:05.760 --> 0:29:09.560
<v Speaker 1>make believe personas, she often seemed to borrow the names

0:29:09.600 --> 0:29:13.120
<v Speaker 1>of her cousins and her cousin's children as if they

0:29:13.200 --> 0:29:21.360
<v Speaker 1>had something she did not. If her family wouldn't help

0:29:21.400 --> 0:29:26.480
<v Speaker 1>me understand Sarah, I turned to someone else who might well.

0:29:26.480 --> 0:29:31.000
<v Speaker 1>I see people with mood disorders, and I also see

0:29:31.080 --> 0:29:36.960
<v Speaker 1>people who have factitious disorder. And factitious disorder is brought

0:29:37.160 --> 0:29:41.440
<v Speaker 1>term to describe people who have much house and syndrome.

0:29:42.280 --> 0:29:46.000
<v Speaker 1>Dr Stewart Eisendraft is on the psychiatry faculty at the

0:29:46.120 --> 0:29:50.560
<v Speaker 1>University of California in San Francisco. Dr Eisendraff spoke with

0:29:50.640 --> 0:29:54.200
<v Speaker 1>me with one big caveat. He wanted it to be

0:29:54.280 --> 0:29:57.880
<v Speaker 1>clear that he hasn't examined or diagnosed Sarah, and that

0:29:57.960 --> 0:30:01.440
<v Speaker 1>his comments are based on his three decades of experience

0:30:01.560 --> 0:30:08.320
<v Speaker 1>with something called Munchhausen syndrome. The description of Munchausen sounds familiar.

0:30:08.880 --> 0:30:13.800
<v Speaker 1>That's basically where a person creates signs or symptoms of

0:30:14.360 --> 0:30:19.760
<v Speaker 1>physical illness for purposes of being in the sick role.

0:30:20.640 --> 0:30:26.440
<v Speaker 1>It isn't somebody who creates science or symptoms of illness

0:30:26.520 --> 0:30:31.960
<v Speaker 1>in order to achieve some goals such as a monetary award. Rather,

0:30:32.040 --> 0:30:34.360
<v Speaker 1>they do it because they want to be in the

0:30:34.440 --> 0:30:39.520
<v Speaker 1>patient role and whatever benefits go along with that. He

0:30:39.680 --> 0:30:42.640
<v Speaker 1>wasn't surprised to learn that Sarah had been a nurse.

0:30:43.440 --> 0:30:49.520
<v Speaker 1>In general, people with factitious disorder fifty or more have

0:30:49.720 --> 0:30:53.360
<v Speaker 1>been involved with the health care system, but the most

0:30:53.400 --> 0:30:57.600
<v Speaker 1>common thing is a nurse or nurse's aid. Our speculation

0:30:57.880 --> 0:31:02.000
<v Speaker 1>is that the people can go into the health care

0:31:02.120 --> 0:31:06.280
<v Speaker 1>fields because they want to help take care of other people.

0:31:06.560 --> 0:31:09.840
<v Speaker 1>They want to get care for themselves as well. They

0:31:09.880 --> 0:31:14.800
<v Speaker 1>oscillate often between being in a caregiving role and being

0:31:15.160 --> 0:31:20.440
<v Speaker 1>a caregiving recipient. In doing so, they may be searching

0:31:20.520 --> 0:31:25.040
<v Speaker 1>for something they're not getting at home. They may recreate,

0:31:25.720 --> 0:31:31.440
<v Speaker 1>say some family dynamics where they're getting a second family

0:31:31.520 --> 0:31:34.520
<v Speaker 1>as it were. I don't want to oversimplify, but it's

0:31:34.600 --> 0:31:40.240
<v Speaker 1>like they're seeking a sort of family nurturing relationship. Is

0:31:40.240 --> 0:31:43.920
<v Speaker 1>that kind of what you're saying, Yes, that's exactly it.

0:31:44.080 --> 0:31:47.200
<v Speaker 1>Or it can be a reaction to genuine medical trauma

0:31:47.360 --> 0:31:51.120
<v Speaker 1>from the past. They might try to in a sense,

0:31:51.280 --> 0:31:56.600
<v Speaker 1>recreated because this time they know they're in control of it,

0:31:57.000 --> 0:32:01.560
<v Speaker 1>when in the original episode they were. Whatever the reason

0:32:01.680 --> 0:32:06.880
<v Speaker 1>behind the behavior, Dr Eisendraff says, there's one commonality, a

0:32:06.920 --> 0:32:11.440
<v Speaker 1>disregard for its impact on others. There are often what

0:32:11.520 --> 0:32:14.800
<v Speaker 1>we call sociopathic. They don't have any empathy for the

0:32:14.880 --> 0:32:18.640
<v Speaker 1>people around them, so they may be quite cruel to

0:32:18.720 --> 0:32:21.840
<v Speaker 1>the people around them, but they're not concerned about that.

0:32:21.880 --> 0:32:25.240
<v Speaker 1>They're only concerned about what they're what they're getting from

0:32:25.280 --> 0:32:31.960
<v Speaker 1>the situation. They may be aware that it's antisocial or pathological,

0:32:32.600 --> 0:32:37.080
<v Speaker 1>but they rationalize it saying that to themselves, this is

0:32:37.120 --> 0:32:40.320
<v Speaker 1>what they need to do in order to get their

0:32:40.360 --> 0:32:44.680
<v Speaker 1>needs met. Sometimes the motive is deliberate control of another

0:32:44.760 --> 0:32:49.719
<v Speaker 1>person's feelings. One dynamic might be that the patient is

0:32:50.080 --> 0:32:54.360
<v Speaker 1>trying to provoke anger in the people around him or her,

0:32:55.240 --> 0:33:00.840
<v Speaker 1>or humiliation. It may be humiliating because they that's the issue,

0:33:00.880 --> 0:33:04.760
<v Speaker 1>that's the kind of traumatic situation that the patient is

0:33:04.800 --> 0:33:09.120
<v Speaker 1>working around, that they were humiliated as a child or

0:33:09.200 --> 0:33:13.480
<v Speaker 1>as a young adult, and that they recreate this situation

0:33:13.880 --> 0:33:17.320
<v Speaker 1>with other people. I think I've just always assumed that

0:33:17.360 --> 0:33:19.920
<v Speaker 1>the motive was to get attention and support. But what

0:33:19.960 --> 0:33:24.120
<v Speaker 1>you're saying is we can't make that assumption. It's a

0:33:24.160 --> 0:33:28.520
<v Speaker 1>common factor getting attention and support, but it's definitely not

0:33:28.640 --> 0:33:35.120
<v Speaker 1>the only factor. Does everyone who has this need psychotherapy

0:33:35.240 --> 0:33:38.200
<v Speaker 1>to stop? Or can they just decide I don't want

0:33:38.200 --> 0:33:39.640
<v Speaker 1>to live this way anymore and I'm not going to

0:33:39.720 --> 0:33:43.200
<v Speaker 1>do it. But my experience, it's very unusual for somebody

0:33:43.200 --> 0:33:47.560
<v Speaker 1>to stop on their own. And this psychotherapy is it lifelong?

0:33:48.120 --> 0:33:51.800
<v Speaker 1>Is it something that you know you pretty much just

0:33:51.840 --> 0:33:54.400
<v Speaker 1>have to keep treating it and keep treating it so

0:33:54.440 --> 0:33:59.160
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't control your life. Yes, it's basically very long

0:33:59.320 --> 0:34:05.360
<v Speaker 1>term and requires rigorous attention over time. When you're dealing

0:34:05.440 --> 0:34:09.319
<v Speaker 1>with Munchausen, they have a very severe condition that is

0:34:09.440 --> 0:34:14.480
<v Speaker 1>like stage four cancer, and they deserve support not for

0:34:14.600 --> 0:34:17.920
<v Speaker 1>what the person is portraying themselves as, but for the

0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:22.400
<v Speaker 1>condition that causes them to portray it in the first place.

0:34:22.840 --> 0:34:25.680
<v Speaker 1>So instead of feeling sorry for them for they have

0:34:25.880 --> 0:34:29.719
<v Speaker 1>because they have cancer, it's really recognizing they have a

0:34:29.760 --> 0:34:34.520
<v Speaker 1>factitious disorder and they need treatment for that. Sarah thought

0:34:34.560 --> 0:34:37.320
<v Speaker 1>she had to move through the world as someone else,

0:34:37.800 --> 0:34:42.360
<v Speaker 1>someone who needed help, someone with a disability. The tragedy

0:34:42.480 --> 0:34:46.759
<v Speaker 1>is she probably did have a disability, just an invisible one,

0:34:47.560 --> 0:34:51.239
<v Speaker 1>not one that people can easily recognize and feel sympathy for,

0:34:52.200 --> 0:34:57.240
<v Speaker 1>also one extraordinarily difficult for her and her family to face.

0:34:59.120 --> 0:35:02.080
<v Speaker 1>During one pH in conversation with Liz, she told me

0:35:02.160 --> 0:35:06.080
<v Speaker 1>something surprising that she and Brian had driven halfway across

0:35:06.080 --> 0:35:09.279
<v Speaker 1>the country from their home in Rhode Island to Illinois.

0:35:12.160 --> 0:35:14.200
<v Speaker 1>I had to see her. I had to see who

0:35:14.280 --> 0:35:17.440
<v Speaker 1>she was in her elements, and we found her address,

0:35:17.600 --> 0:35:19.200
<v Speaker 1>and we drove around her town, and we went to

0:35:19.239 --> 0:35:22.880
<v Speaker 1>her coffee shop, and we saw all the places where

0:35:22.920 --> 0:35:25.640
<v Speaker 1>she would go and we sat in front her house.

0:35:25.960 --> 0:35:28.239
<v Speaker 1>She came out of her house, and both of us

0:35:28.760 --> 0:35:32.520
<v Speaker 1>were just completely breathless at that moment. It was like

0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:34.920
<v Speaker 1>our hearts stopped seeing her walk out of her house,

0:35:35.520 --> 0:35:39.280
<v Speaker 1>getting her car with her license plates and her personal

0:35:39.320 --> 0:35:42.600
<v Speaker 1>plates and go about her life. And we followed her

0:35:42.640 --> 0:35:45.080
<v Speaker 1>for a bit. So you drove all the way from

0:35:45.160 --> 0:35:50.040
<v Speaker 1>Rhode Island to Illinois just to lay eyes on her.

0:35:50.520 --> 0:35:54.160
<v Speaker 1>We did. I mean, somebody listening to this might think, wow,

0:35:54.200 --> 0:35:57.719
<v Speaker 1>that is just over the top. This was just kind

0:35:57.719 --> 0:36:05.240
<v Speaker 1>of closure if you were and seeing her. Liz wanted

0:36:05.320 --> 0:36:09.320
<v Speaker 1>to see Sarah, the real Sarah at home. She felt

0:36:09.320 --> 0:36:12.040
<v Speaker 1>like she couldn't put this behind her unless she figured

0:36:12.080 --> 0:36:15.320
<v Speaker 1>out who Sarah really was. In some ways, I didn't

0:36:15.360 --> 0:36:19.280
<v Speaker 1>blame her. I'd been wanting to understand Sarah too, looking

0:36:19.280 --> 0:36:21.920
<v Speaker 1>for clues. My mind kept going back to something that

0:36:22.040 --> 0:36:25.399
<v Speaker 1>Bethany told me, the one thing that I've never heard

0:36:25.400 --> 0:36:28.760
<v Speaker 1>her lie about. She's lied about everything else, from cousin's,

0:36:28.760 --> 0:36:32.520
<v Speaker 1>nephew's husband's, you know, dead relatives, kids, whatever. Anytime I

0:36:32.560 --> 0:36:35.040
<v Speaker 1>asked her about her father, she shut it down and

0:36:35.080 --> 0:36:37.480
<v Speaker 1>she said, no, he left when I was little, and

0:36:37.520 --> 0:36:41.040
<v Speaker 1>that was it. So I asked Officer Bryan's in Highland

0:36:41.200 --> 0:36:44.879
<v Speaker 1>if he knew anything about Sarah's father. I did look

0:36:44.880 --> 0:36:46.920
<v Speaker 1>for it, but I was I wasn't able to find

0:36:47.160 --> 0:36:50.279
<v Speaker 1>anything of any sort of father figure for her, So

0:36:50.360 --> 0:36:52.560
<v Speaker 1>even you couldn't find, like even a name of who

0:36:52.560 --> 0:36:57.920
<v Speaker 1>he was. I kept looking, thinking her dad might provide

0:36:57.920 --> 0:37:01.400
<v Speaker 1>a clue to what her life was missing. I learned

0:37:01.560 --> 0:37:04.280
<v Speaker 1>his name is Dave and he lives in a tiny

0:37:04.360 --> 0:37:09.560
<v Speaker 1>town on Roots, less than an hour from Highland. Laura

0:37:09.640 --> 0:37:17.680
<v Speaker 1>les over your letter about Sarah That's next on the

0:37:17.800 --> 0:37:25.640
<v Speaker 1>final episode of Sympathy Pains. Sympathy Pains is a production

0:37:25.680 --> 0:37:29.040
<v Speaker 1>of Neon Hum Media and I Heart Radio. I'm your host,

0:37:29.200 --> 0:37:33.800
<v Speaker 1>Laura Beale I wrote and reported the episodes. Natalie Rinn

0:37:34.040 --> 0:37:37.680
<v Speaker 1>is the lead producer. Our editor is Katherine st. Louis.

0:37:38.239 --> 0:37:43.760
<v Speaker 1>Associate producer is Rufaro Mazzarua. Our executive producer is Jonathan Hirsch.

0:37:44.360 --> 0:37:49.360
<v Speaker 1>Samantha Allison is our production manager. Fact checker is Jacqueline Colletti.

0:37:50.040 --> 0:37:53.560
<v Speaker 1>Jesse Perlstein composed the theme song and music heard throughout

0:37:53.560 --> 0:37:57.200
<v Speaker 1>the series. Additional tracks are by Blue Dot Sessions and

0:37:57.280 --> 0:38:01.800
<v Speaker 1>Epidemic Sound. Scott Somerville is our engineer and sound designer.

0:38:02.600 --> 0:38:06.920
<v Speaker 1>Special thanks to Stephanie Serrano from I Heart Radio. Special

0:38:06.920 --> 0:38:11.600
<v Speaker 1>thanks to Carrie Lieberman and Bethan Macaluso. Executive producer at

0:38:11.600 --> 0:38:15.680
<v Speaker 1>I Heeart Radio is Dylan Fagan. If you or someone

0:38:15.719 --> 0:38:18.239
<v Speaker 1>you know is struggling with mental illness, you can call

0:38:18.280 --> 0:38:21.959
<v Speaker 1>the National Alliance on Mental Illness at eight hundred nine

0:38:22.080 --> 0:38:25.879
<v Speaker 1>five oh six two six four. That's eight hundred nine

0:38:26.000 --> 0:38:28.319
<v Speaker 1>five O N A m I