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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vanderkam. I'm a mother of four,

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Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger.

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Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, practicing physician and blogger. On

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Speaker 1: the side, we are two working parents who love our

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Speaker 1: careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family,

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Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping

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Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get

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Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: This is Laura. We're going to be excited to talk

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Speaker 1: this week with Meredith Monday Schwartz, who some of our

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Speaker 1: listeners probably know from her Penelope Loves Lists days. We

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Speaker 1: have a lot of people who are sort of the

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Speaker 1: Penelope Loves Lists kind of readers in our listeners. But

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Speaker 1: she's now running a company called Here Comes the Guide.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna be talking with her on managing remote and

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Speaker 1: flexible workers, how you can manage a workforce that way

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Speaker 1: and be the kind of boss that lots of people

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Speaker 1: who want flexible work would love to work for. So

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Speaker 1: we're very excited about that. But speaking of work, we

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Speaker 1: are recording this on March sixth, and Sarah went back

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Speaker 1: to work yesterday. Sarah, how did it go well? First,

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Speaker 1: let me note that that means I'm off the day

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Speaker 1: after I started back. Good schedule wasn't my initial plan.

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Speaker 1: I had planned to be off on Wednesday, but then

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Speaker 1: I had been invited to a meeting that I absolutely

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Speaker 1: have to go to on Wednesday. So I said, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I'm just going to take the day off

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Speaker 1: after my first day because I'm probably going to need

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Speaker 1: to breathe. And I'm actually really glad I did that.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to say it was traumatic, but it's

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Speaker 1: it is stressful going back after a hiatus like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I would say on the whole it went well.

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Speaker 1: I didn't fall behind with my patients. I think I

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Speaker 1: have one note that I have to write today. I

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Speaker 1: had a nearly full schedule. They had told me that

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Speaker 1: they were going to put half the number of my

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Speaker 1: usual patients in, but haha, that never It's fine. I

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Speaker 1: knew what wasn't gonna happen. I looked at my skull

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Speaker 1: tull the day before I went, yeah, I know, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I saw like one less than my normal number. And

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Speaker 1: I was able to pump more than Genevieve drink, So that's,

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Speaker 1: you know, always a big win. The only negative is

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Speaker 1: that I was so tired by the end of the day.

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Speaker 1: I literally could not read my kid's story. I was

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Speaker 1: stumbling on the wards and it was eight fifteen. I

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Speaker 1: was like, Annabelle, I actually can't read this anymore. I

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Speaker 1: have to just lie down on this couch and you're

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Speaker 1: gonna fall asleep. And they did. And that's because the

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Speaker 1: baby Genevieve had gotten up at midnight and then like

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Speaker 1: three forty five and A I had a lot of

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Speaker 1: anxiety going into my first day, and B I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: my first morning pump is where I get most of

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Speaker 1: my milk. How am I possibly going to do this?

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Speaker 1: I can't go back to bed at like four you know,

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Speaker 1: it was like four am after I had fed her.

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Speaker 1: Because by the time that happens, that means I won't

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Speaker 1: have time to pump before I leave, and so I'm

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Speaker 1: stuck pumping at four am. So I did. So I

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Speaker 1: was basically up from three forty five on on a

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Speaker 1: very stressful day. So wow, that took a lot out

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Speaker 1: of me. But I recovered overnight. Last night and hopefully,

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Speaker 1: you know, normally her morning wake up is more like

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Speaker 1: closer to five, which is much more doable, so hopefully

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Speaker 1: she just won't pull that again. Yeah, but the day

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Speaker 1: went all right, you're you're feeling good. It did, and

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Speaker 1: I will say I did a few little hacks to

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Speaker 1: help with that. It wasn't really my first day in

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Speaker 1: the office because I actually on Friday decided I would

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Speaker 1: kind of set up my little pumping studio and bring

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Speaker 1: Genevieve in to say hi to everybody. Friday afternoons tend

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Speaker 1: to be a little bit more actually a lot more

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Speaker 1: relaxed because a lot of people are not seeing out patients,

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Speaker 1: They're just kind of checking up on stuff. So I

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Speaker 1: figured it was the perfect time to just show up,

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Speaker 1: get all my hugs out of the way, I mean,

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Speaker 1: not out of the way, but really, you know, reconnect

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Speaker 1: with people so that I wouldn't have to you know,

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Speaker 1: I could really focus on work my actual first day,

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Speaker 1: knowing that i'd be much more time crunched, I ordered

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Speaker 1: a cube fridge for my office, which actually fit in perfectly,

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Speaker 1: so I'm able to just throw my milk in there

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Speaker 1: rather than running all the way back to the office.

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Speaker 1: Fridge when I'm pumping, So that's helpful. And yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think that was you know, even though it's kind of

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Speaker 1: sad to spend one of your last days at the office,

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Speaker 1: it was one hundred percent worth it. I would highly

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Speaker 1: recommend that for anybody going back, especially if they know

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Speaker 1: that their first day is not going to be just

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Speaker 1: a light day. Those of us in medicine, you know,

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Speaker 1: in other industries, they'd probably say, oh, you know, we

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Speaker 1: will just keep it light. It's just they're just going

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Speaker 1: to give you patients because their patients have been waiting

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Speaker 1: for you to come back. And it's probably not even

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Speaker 1: going to be the low matance patients. It's going to

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Speaker 1: be the patients who are waiting who were like, I

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Speaker 1: need to be seen the first first days available opportunity.

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Speaker 1: And actually I had wonderful patients yesterday, so that was

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Speaker 1: a plus. But I'm glad I did that prep work.

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Speaker 1: It would have been a disaster without it. Yeah that

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Speaker 1: if you had been trying to fit in all those

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Speaker 1: nice conversations of oh how are you, how's the baby,

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Speaker 1: while you're also on a full patient load on day one,

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Speaker 1: absolutely it would have been tough. And I actually think

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Speaker 1: the idea of not having a full week back that

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Speaker 1: first week has some upsides too, like if it is

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Speaker 1: possible to, I mean, I know you want to, especially

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Speaker 1: if people have sort of shorter maternity leaves, you're not

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Speaker 1: going to want to play around with it too much.

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Speaker 1: But just the idea of maybe starting on a Thursday

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Speaker 1: or something, yeah, I've actually, Yeah, starting on a Thursday

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Speaker 1: or Friday is a great option. Or Yeah, saving a

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Speaker 1: couple of days so that you can, you know, do

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Speaker 1: a slightly lighter first week would make sense for a

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Speaker 1: lot of people. For me, since I work four days,

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Speaker 1: I can kind of naturally make that happen anyway. But

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Speaker 1: I really today is really nice. I needed to recover

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Speaker 1: after that kind of rush of anxiety and emotions and

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Speaker 1: all that. But now you're back in, and I'm back in,

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Speaker 1: and I've left, you know, one day at a time.

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Speaker 1: I missed the I did miss the baby. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if there's something about you know, we talk about how

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Speaker 1: like it's true, she doesn't care, probably nearly as much

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Speaker 1: as my older kids would care. There's probably just some

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Speaker 1: hormonal mechanism that makes you very sadave your baby. But

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Speaker 1: she also was fine tonight and fine this morning, and

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Speaker 1: I'm lucky to have weekends and an extra day with

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Speaker 1: her for the most part. So and she did well

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Speaker 1: with bottles and everything. Oh yeah, she I knew, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I kid love bottles. They don't even I don't know

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Speaker 1: you know that. You they talk about like you need

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Speaker 1: to give them a bottle so they'll get used to it.

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Speaker 1: And all three of mine like the first time they

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Speaker 1: met a bottle, they were like, this is the best ever.

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Speaker 1: It's more than I get paranoid about them not wanting

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Speaker 1: me after the bottle. But that's another story. I day

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Speaker 1: one went back then it went well, yay, yeah, so

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Speaker 1: onward from there. All right, well, we're excited to be

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Speaker 1: talking with Meredith, so we'll go ahead and start that interview. Well,

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Speaker 1: we're very excited to welcome Meredith Monday Schwartz to the

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Speaker 1: best of both worlds. So, Meredith, why don't you go

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Speaker 1: ahead and introduce yourself a little bit about you, your family,

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Speaker 1: and your career history. Excellent, I would love to. So.

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Speaker 1: I am a mom of four. We have three kids

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Speaker 1: who are much older. In fact, they're a lot of

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Speaker 1: We have a blended family, so we have twenty eight

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Speaker 1: twenty almost twenty three, almost nineteen. And then my husband

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Speaker 1: and I have our son together, who is six, so

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Speaker 1: we are kind of doing that, you know, blended family thing.

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Speaker 1: We have kids in every stage, which is always exciting.

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Speaker 1: And then I am also the CEO of a wedding website,

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Speaker 1: a wedding resource website called Here Comes the Guide, and

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Speaker 1: I've actually been there for twenty years this year. Wow.

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Speaker 1: And so you started that up right as the whole

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Speaker 1: wedding industry was moving online. Then it actually our founder

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Speaker 1: started it in nineteen eighty nine, so well before there

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Speaker 1: was even an internet, and so I joined in actually

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, and that was the year that we

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Speaker 1: started the website component of what we do. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: we've been doing this for a really really long time,

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Speaker 1: and we've certainly seen all the different iterations of kind

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Speaker 1: of online presences and you know, the social media and

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Speaker 1: all of that. Yeh, we've been doing it for a

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Speaker 1: long time. Yeah. And so the current business model, you

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Speaker 1: said that all your employees are remote, So how does

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Speaker 1: that work? What does that even look like? So it's interesting. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we had an office in Berkeley, California for the first

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Speaker 1: what twenty nine years of our company and then when

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Speaker 1: we bought at our founder, we really took a hard look.

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Speaker 1: It was one of those things whe we were looking

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Speaker 1: at every single dollar spent, every single dollar earned, and

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Speaker 1: we just looked at our actual physical office and we said, geez,

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Speaker 1: we've grown to a point where well over half of

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Speaker 1: us are spread across the country. So we're going to

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Speaker 1: go ahead and just give a try to being a

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Speaker 1: fully distributed team. And it has been so wonderful. Now,

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Speaker 1: this was a long, slow process, so I don't I

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Speaker 1: think one of the things that we really did right

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Speaker 1: was we didn't try to do this overnight, because that

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Speaker 1: would be a huge logistical issue, and I think it

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Speaker 1: would also be a cultural issue if you tried to

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Speaker 1: do it really really quickly. But we over the course

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Speaker 1: of probably four years previous to the actual official get

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Speaker 1: rid of the office moment, we had been moving with

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Speaker 1: that idea in mind, and so we had been slowly

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Speaker 1: moving from everyone, you know, all of us who were

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Speaker 1: in Berkeley be in the office five days a week

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Speaker 1: to four to three to two, and then for the

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Speaker 1: whole year previous to making the move, we only were

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Speaker 1: in the office one day a week, and so that

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Speaker 1: gave us the ability to take a lot of our

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Speaker 1: systems and begin to move them away from the physical office.

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Speaker 1: And so once we actually had most of that down,

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Speaker 1: there were two pieces that kind of sealed the deal

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Speaker 1: for us. One of which we moved to a voice

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Speaker 1: over IP system for our phones, and we use a

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Speaker 1: tool called dial Pad, and so that enables us to

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Speaker 1: literally work from call and receive calls not only from anywhere,

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Speaker 1: but from any of our devices, our computer, our cell phones,

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Speaker 1: all of that tremendous flexibility. And then the super fun

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Speaker 1: piece of what we started using, which I wasn't exactly

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Speaker 1: sure was going to go over as well as it did,

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Speaker 1: but man, it's changed everything for us. It's a piece

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Speaker 1: of software and you know, you can download online called

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Speaker 1: so Coco, and it's a virtual office and you can

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Speaker 1: design your sort of virtual office and you it's like

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Speaker 1: you're looking at an overhead of an office, like you're

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Speaker 1: looking at an office from above right, and so you

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Speaker 1: can see as people log on, you can see their

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Speaker 1: little avatar in their office, and you can very quickly

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Speaker 1: text message with someone, you can very quickly video conference

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Speaker 1: literally within three seconds, I can quote unquote knock on

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Speaker 1: the door of any of my co workers. We can

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Speaker 1: pop in if we're available, and we're looking and speaking

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Speaker 1: to each other via video as if we were just

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Speaker 1: in the next room. That is so cool. That's like

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Speaker 1: a second live or some city, and you're like, at work,

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Speaker 1: you must feel like you're there. Does it feel like that?

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Speaker 1: It does feel like that. And I think we were

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Speaker 1: expecting to get a lot of the actual concrete benefits

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Speaker 1: right of the video, you know, quick video conferencing and

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Speaker 1: all of that good stuff. What we weren't expecting was

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Speaker 1: that having the virtual office would give us the feeling

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Speaker 1: of being together because sometimes just glancing, you know, when

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Speaker 1: you work from home all day, it can be awesome,

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Speaker 1: and it can also be isolating. And just being able

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Speaker 1: to see all the little happy avatars at their desks

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Speaker 1: and you know, being able to say, oh, there's Shannon

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Speaker 1: over there in South Carolina, and there's Lisa and she's

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Speaker 1: in Texas, and knowing that you're literally seconds away from

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Speaker 1: not only two of you talking, but we have full

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Speaker 1: staff meetings. All twenty three of us can physically see

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Speaker 1: each other. And I think it makes a difference in

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Speaker 1: any you know, group of people who are you know,

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Speaker 1: in contact with each other. But I think, especially in

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Speaker 1: a group of women, being able to have conversations where

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Speaker 1: we can see each other every day, it really adds

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Speaker 1: to the fabric of the relationship. So we do a

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Speaker 1: lot of our meetings that way, but very frankly, I

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Speaker 1: encourage a lot of just random like knocking the door,

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Speaker 1: hop in and check how you know, Like just today,

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Speaker 1: out of twenty three of us, I think four of

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Speaker 1: us have kids who are homesick with the virus of

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Speaker 1: some sort. So we're all checking in with each other,

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Speaker 1: how's this little been doing, how's that little been doing.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of times our connections are not necessarily

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Speaker 1: hardcore work related, but it again increases that fabric, that

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Speaker 1: sisterhood culture that I think is absolutely the secret to

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Speaker 1: our success. That here comes the guide. Well, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about that sisterhood because you hired for that, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: that was part of how you built this out one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent. When I took over the company in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and seven, I absolutely knew the exact kind of

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Speaker 1: company that I wanted to build. I knew the kind

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Speaker 1: of people who I wanted on my team, and I

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Speaker 1: knew that it was going to be super important in

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Speaker 1: having a group of women work together. There were a

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Speaker 1: couple things that were absolutely non negotiable, and the biggest

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Speaker 1: thing was that our first core value is the sisterhood first, always,

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Speaker 1: and what that means to us is it has to

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Speaker 1: be a group of people who care more about the

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Speaker 1: team than they care of themselves individually, and it has

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Speaker 1: to be a group of people who are zero drama.

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Speaker 1: There's no room for any kind of drama or clickiness

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Speaker 1: or back seven or even letting kind of stuff fester,

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Speaker 1: because if you do that, you guys know that it's

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Speaker 1: a super slippery slope. So I to your point, I

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Speaker 1: hired and it's really important to me. And one of

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Speaker 1: the roles that I maintain as CEO and I will

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Speaker 1: continue to maintain is hiring and then also maintaining that

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Speaker 1: culture and maintaining that no drama policy. And so we

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Speaker 1: have a great team, and we seriously believe that because

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Speaker 1: we have that strong sisterhood that it enables us to

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Speaker 1: do our work better. Not just oh, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: fun we want to bring each other's hair, but literally

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Speaker 1: it helps us to be a more profitable company. Breaking

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Speaker 1: each other's hair virtually is going to be an interesting experience,

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Speaker 1: But you can talk about that because hiring is very

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Speaker 1: hard to get right, and for anyone who's who's done it,

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Speaker 1: they know that. So I'm curious how you can select

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Speaker 1: in the hiring process or what you ask or what

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Speaker 1: you look for in order to get people who are

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Speaker 1: no drama. And also, of course, because you are virtual,

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Speaker 1: people who are self starters, people who are self motivated,

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Speaker 1: who don't actually need one looking over them to make

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Speaker 1: sure that everything's getting done. Absolutely, so we have I

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Speaker 1: have another website that's called Penelope Loves Lists, and the

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Speaker 1: sort of thought behind that website is that a Penelope

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Speaker 1: is a type of person. And I bring this up

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Speaker 1: because that type of person type a super organized, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, I guess a sort of old

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Speaker 1: fashioned word people would call them, like anal or you

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Speaker 1: know whatever. That that kind of that kind of person

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Speaker 1: is definitely who I'm hiring for. And so what I'm

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Speaker 1: looking for is I'm looking for someone who's super detail oriented,

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Speaker 1: and that's important to our work. I'm looking for someone

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Speaker 1: who's incredibly organized in her systems, in her thoughts, keeps

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Speaker 1: a lot of lists, you know, someone for whom being

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Speaker 1: organized is really the lifeline. And that makes a big

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Speaker 1: difference in our business to doing this particular kind of

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Speaker 1: job really well. And most importantly, and this goes to

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Speaker 1: the point of managing a remote team. I'm looking for

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Speaker 1: someone a little controversial, but I am hiring and I

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Speaker 1: interview to hear someone who is harder on themselves than

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Speaker 1: I could ever be. We call that the insecure overachiever,

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Speaker 1: by the way, and that is a perfect way to

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Speaker 1: describe the Penelope personality. And so it's not to say

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Speaker 1: that I want to foster any kind of insecurity, but

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Speaker 1: I really believe that there's this a type of person.

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Speaker 1: This is a person who's who was like this when

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Speaker 1: they were little, and they're going to be like this

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Speaker 1: until they're old and they're you know, there's some tools

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Speaker 1: and strategies that we can use to make sure we're

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Speaker 1: super healthy emotionally around it, but at the very base,

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Speaker 1: we all have to care about own our own work

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Speaker 1: more than caring what a manager thinks. So we're more

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Speaker 1: than caring about a financial goal. And if I can

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Speaker 1: find those people, and so far I have, I've been

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Speaker 1: really lucky to be able to find those people. I

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Speaker 1: find that for our team, that's what works really, really

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Speaker 1: well because I can't teach somebody how to care. I

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Speaker 1: can't teach someone to care at a visceral level. But

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Speaker 1: when you find this particular kind of person, I don't

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Speaker 1: have to teach them because they care to a fault.

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Speaker 1: Are all of your employer Are you familiar with Gretchen

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Speaker 1: Rubin's tendencies? Are these all upholders? And is there any

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Speaker 1: problem that you see sometimes where people do think too

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Speaker 1: much alike like or do you think they're diverse in

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Speaker 1: other ways? So that's exactly a fantastic point that you

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Speaker 1: bring up, because I am obsessed with Gretchen Rubin. I

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Speaker 1: am obsessed with the four tendencies. And actually the four

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Speaker 1: Tendencies quiz is one of the three personality tests that

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Speaker 1: we have every new employee take. And so what's interesting

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Speaker 1: is that, in fact, we only out of twenty three

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Speaker 1: of us, we only have three upholders on staff. I'm

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Speaker 1: one of those that and then the rest of everybody

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Speaker 1: are divided pretty equally between obligers and questioners. And to

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Speaker 1: your point, I would one hundred percent think if it

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Speaker 1: was all what was all upholders, we would not be

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Speaker 1: well served by that. But the mix, the mix of

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Speaker 1: questioners obligers and upholders. There are no rebels, which does

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Speaker 1: not say that, of course, rebels can't be incredibly successful.

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Speaker 1: I just am not sure that this maybe is the

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Speaker 1: exact right kind of fit, but we'll see. Maybe I'll

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Speaker 1: be surprised in the future. But yes, I think that

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Speaker 1: the tendencies come into playing big time. And I think

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Speaker 1: that mix of those personality types keeps us from being

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Speaker 1: although we all have a certain set of ways in

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Speaker 1: which we are similar, I think that mix keeps us

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Speaker 1: from being overly homogeneous. So I'd love to talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the practicalities of managing you know, remote

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Speaker 1: and flexible workers. I mean, one thing I've heard from

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Speaker 1: other bosses with the situation having very clear guidelines, you know,

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Speaker 1: on what people are trying to achieve, because then you

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Speaker 1: can't be there monitoring what they're doing. So you have

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Speaker 1: very clear guidelines and what you need to achieve, but

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Speaker 1: that you also need to be careful, especially if you've

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Speaker 1: got a lot of people who are you know, obligers

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Speaker 1: in this sense, that you have to set some limits

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Speaker 1: on remote work because I mean, technically you could be

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Speaker 1: on all the time, like you know, Sarah comes to

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Speaker 1: an office and she leaves at some point right when

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Speaker 1: she's done with her work. But if you are, you know,

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Speaker 1: working remotely, like then emails can happen at any point,

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Speaker 1: the you know, ims can happen at any point. So

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Speaker 1: I'm curious how you both set guidelines and then also

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Speaker 1: how you help people still balance their lives. Absolutely, I

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Speaker 1: think that's an excellent question. So I think it starts

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Speaker 1: with setting our expectations. Exactly what you're saying. I think

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Speaker 1: it's really important that I and my CEO are my

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Speaker 1: COEO are really clear about what we expect big picture,

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Speaker 1: but also quarterly, monthly, weekly, daily, That level of communication

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Speaker 1: is absolutely key. So it starts with that. One of

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Speaker 1: the things that as far as how we are aware

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Speaker 1: of what's going on, we have a couple layers of awareness.

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Speaker 1: One of those is at the end of every day,

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Speaker 1: all of our employees send a short It really is short,

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Speaker 1: it's a few bullet points, but we call them an

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Speaker 1: end of day and basically it's just a short overview

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Speaker 1: of what it is that they worked on. And we

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Speaker 1: can also there are several other metrics that we can check,

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Speaker 1: but the majority of the time that gives us a really,

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Speaker 1: really good sense. And then we meet with each of

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Speaker 1: our employees the director, They meet with their direct report

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Speaker 1: you know, at least every other week, if not you know,

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Speaker 1: every week, depending on how long they've been with the company.

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Speaker 1: So again a lot of exchange of information. And then

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Speaker 1: we also meet quarterly to do what we call a

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Speaker 1: quarterly check in, which is you know, where we have

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Speaker 1: one on one with each employee to really talk through, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what did this last quarter look like, what were we

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Speaker 1: hoping to accomplish, what did the what was super important

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Speaker 1: for the employee to accomplish. Are there things that she

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Speaker 1: wanted to move forward on, you know, and did that happen?

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Speaker 1: Is there air cover we can provide to make that

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Speaker 1: happen you know better going forward? And then of course

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Speaker 1: are there any points you know of improvement that need

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Speaker 1: to happen. So those are layers of ways that we

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Speaker 1: can watch what work is happening. And of course then

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Speaker 1: we have our huge customer management system where we can

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Speaker 1: see you know, the the contacts that are being made

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Speaker 1: and invoices that are being made, not that good stuff.

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Speaker 1: So I think there's got to be a ton of

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Speaker 1: their very clear communication in both directions and then as

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Speaker 1: far as to your really excellent question, how do we

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Speaker 1: manage remote work. We have a very strict eight hour

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Speaker 1: a day policy and we hold people to it. So

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Speaker 1: we have flexible scheduling in that each employee can kind

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Speaker 1: of decide, you know, for some people, for their families,

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Speaker 1: it works better for them to work, say seven am

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Speaker 1: to three pm, and some people like to work a

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Speaker 1: little bit later. So once they choose a schedule that

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Speaker 1: works best for them, we say basically pick it and

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Speaker 1: stick it. We want people to work that eight hours,

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Speaker 1: and we want them to work it, you know, hard

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Speaker 1: and fast. We want them to be going absolutely grinding

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Speaker 1: as you know, as much as is healthy during that

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Speaker 1: period of time, and then it's got to be done

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Speaker 1: for the day. You need to know, I put in

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Speaker 1: my best eight hours and it's going to be there tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: And so we do not encourage intact we actively discourage

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Speaker 1: a situation where people are responding to emails at night

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Speaker 1: or certainly I or my COEO would never be texting

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Speaker 1: people about work at night. And I think that that's

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Speaker 1: a piece of it too, is that we need to

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Speaker 1: set from the management, the leadership team needs to set

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Speaker 1: that part of the culture. If I am constantly saying, look,

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Speaker 1: I want you to have work life balance, But I'm

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Speaker 1: texting them at nine o'clock at night asking them a

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Speaker 1: question about work. That's a dissonant message. That is, you

431
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 1: know that it's not going to help. And so we've

432
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,920
Speaker 1: just set those parameters really clearly and we live them

433
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 1: on the daily. All right. That is awesome. Yeah, and

434
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,120
Speaker 1: I think rare but maybe increasing a little bit as

435
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 1: people learn, companies learn that in order to retain mentally

436
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 1: and physically healthy employees, we've got to create some boundaries.

437
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 1: So that's fantastic. You guys are at the forefront. Yeah,

438
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 1: I mean the one issue of that though, I mean

439
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: I would say like as a working parent, I mean,

440
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 1: I know I do often do some of the work

441
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 1: at night after the kids go to bed, because it

442
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 1: lets me have a more reasonable life during the day. Well,

443
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,360
Speaker 1: are you allowed tell us about the flexibility? Like would

444
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 1: you could you have your stability in any of this? Yes,

445
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,160
Speaker 1: So there definitely is flexibility, and I'll tell you when

446
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 1: it really mostly comes into play. We kind of liken

447
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 1: it to a rubber band, right, Like rubber bands are

448
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,360
Speaker 1: made to be stretched so that they can come back

449
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,239
Speaker 1: into shape. So basically, as I said, right now, I

450
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,719
Speaker 1: have four employees myself included, who are home working at

451
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 1: home with our little one who would normally be at

452
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: school or daycare who's homesick. There's gonna be for all

453
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 1: of those who are in that category today, there's going

454
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: to be there's no way that we're going to be

455
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,679
Speaker 1: able to work that straight eight right because there's just

456
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,439
Speaker 1: stuff that you need to do to be able to

457
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: help your little one during the day, and so in

458
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: this case, at night, I'm likely they are likely to

459
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 1: put in an hour to if it makes sense. If

460
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense, they may just start fresh tomorrow

461
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 1: and use some you know, some paid time off which

462
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 1: is completely available to them. But if it makes sense,

463
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: then they want to. Absolutely you can hop on and

464
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 1: do some of the work at night. We just want

465
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,440
Speaker 1: to be sure that that's not happening every single day.

466
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,360
Speaker 1: For the slippery slope issue that you brought up. If

467
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 1: it's an everyday occurrence, then all of a sudden, when

468
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: are we working? When are we not working? But at

469
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 1: the times where life gets in the way, or you

470
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 1: need to go to a performance, you need to go

471
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,199
Speaker 1: to a doctor's appointment, you need to be with your

472
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: little one. That's where the flexibility really does come into play.

473
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 1: And win absolutely. They can put in some hours super

474
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: early later whatever's convenient. And you guys get together though,

475
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 1: face to face from time to time, right, we do.

476
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 1: We have two off sites or off sites a year,

477
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: and we have so much fun. They Actually we do

478
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 1: some work, but we try to do some work that

479
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: is different than the kind of work we normally do,

480
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 1: so we'll try to do something super creative just so

481
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 1: we're all working together. We're together in the same room,

482
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 1: and we're also kind of clearing our chakras, you know,

483
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 1: hitting the reset button, freshening our minds up, so that

484
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: when we get back to our regular work, we're even

485
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 1: fresher than we were before. But yes, we we look

486
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: so forward to getting together at those times because we

487
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 1: work during the day, but then we have night you know,

488
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: we make dinner for each other at night and get

489
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,719
Speaker 1: massages and you know, spend an extra day, you know,

490
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: just shopping and swimming and playing together and all of that.

491
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 1: And we have had, you know, some of our best

492
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: bonding are you know, is on those trips, and so

493
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: we very much look forward to them, and they definitely

494
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 1: add to our overall efficacy as a group. They sound fun.

495
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 1: I'll come to the next one. Absolutely, you would have

496
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: a blast. Oh my goodness, Laura, I definitely want to

497
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: hear more work focused questions. But I also loved Meredith's

498
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 1: overview of her daily schedule, so I'm wondering if that. Yeah,

499
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: our listeners always love hearing people's actual logistics and what

500
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: their lives look like. So you know, we know you're

501
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: trying to create a good work life mix for the

502
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: people who work for you, So let's talk about yours.

503
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: Why don't you walk our listeners through a normal workday. Basically,

504
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 1: my day really starts at about six thirty i'd say roughly,

505
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 1: spend a little time with the husband, and then I

506
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: immediately review, I grab my phone. I'm one of those

507
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: I know that we're not supposed to, but I do.

508
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: I do definitely grab my phone. Since half my staff

509
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: works on the East Coast and I'm on the West Coast,

510
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: it's really important to me that I just get a

511
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: general sense at that time of kind of how the

512
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 1: day is going, and put out any fires, answer any

513
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: quick emails that need to happen, and then at about

514
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: seven fifteen, Jackson, my six year old, comes in and

515
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: I spend a half hour with him. Well, my husband

516
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: gets up and kind of gets coffee, going, gets breakfast, going,

517
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: feeds the animals, that kind of thing. I spend a

518
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 1: half hour with Jackson reading. I have him read to me.

519
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: He's six, so it's a really important time in his

520
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 1: reading life, and so we spend that time together. It's

521
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: been a huge benefit to his skills. But also we're

522
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: getting that snuggle time right, and so every single day

523
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: I know he knows, I know that we're going to

524
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: get that that half hour of just snuggling together doing

525
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: something that we both love. So that always kind of

526
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: sets my day off right. At about seven forty five,

527
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: I get up, I get dressed for my workout at

528
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: that point, and then I go out to the kitchen

529
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: and I kind of do my morning stuff, you know,

530
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: my emptying the dishwasher, shining up the kitchen after breakfast,

531
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: those kinds of things, make sure beds are made, I

532
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: get a little laundry in, and I feel like that

533
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 1: is a piece that taking that time at that juncture

534
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: of the morning is a piece that really helps me

535
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 1: keep sane as far as working from home because I

536
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: feel like I kind of, you know, continue to maintain

537
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: control over the house and how it's looking and all

538
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: of that good stuff. Then at about eight fifteen, Johnny

539
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: takes Jackson too, and I sit down with my cup

540
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,239
Speaker 1: of coffee and I do my morning routine, which is

541
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: really just about a half hour, and I basically do

542
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: a little bit of journaling. I try to journal three

543
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: things I'm grateful for. And then I also try to

544
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: write down and this has been something that's been a

545
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: big thing for me. I try to write down what

546
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 1: I'm most anxious about, and somehow just writing it down

547
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 1: takes a little bit of power away from it, and

548
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: that's been huge for me. And then also I sort

549
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: of journal a few thoughts for the day from a

550
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: business perspective. What are the things that I'm what are

551
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: the issues maybe I'm chewing over, And I try to

552
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: write that out a little bit, and then that helps

553
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: me get a good perspective. And then I spend a

554
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: few minutes reading whatever book, sort of productivity book or

555
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: life hack book, those kinds of things. I love, those

556
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: kinds of books, We love them. And so yes, yes,

557
00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: in fact, i'm reading right now, I'm reading Jennysincero's You

558
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: Are a Badass. Have you guys read that one? No?

559
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: But it was actually I was. I thought that would

560
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: be an excellent book for me to put on my

561
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: kindle to read while pumping. So I actually was gonna

562
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: how is it? Is it good? It's really good? And

563
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: I have to say I didn't I wasn't super interested.

564
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: It felt for a long time because I didn't really know.

565
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: It felt like maybe because I read so many of

566
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: these kinds of books, I felt kind of like, I'm

567
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: not sure I really need this one. This book is

568
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: fantastic way the way that she writes about concepts that

569
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: yes had been written about before. For sure. It's been

570
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: really like I just have a light bulb moment after

571
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: light buld moment. So I'm finishing that up right now

572
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: and I highly recommend it. I'm getting ready to go

573
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: into her next book, which is I Think You're a

574
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: Badass with Money. Yes, and so love that, but just

575
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: getting that few minutes and again I'm only reading a

576
00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: chapter which is maybe five minutes. It's really small period

577
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: of time that I'm taking for that particular kind of reading.

578
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: But it just plants a little idea in my brain

579
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: that I can chew on in the back of my

580
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: mind or access during the day. So it's kind of

581
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: like just it sets me up to be in the

582
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: right mental state to proceed through my day the way

583
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: that I want to, and then at a forty five

584
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: I go do my workout and so and this is

585
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,959
Speaker 1: an example from a work perspective. Lots of my teammates

586
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: do exactly this, where we kind of get into the

587
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: day a little bit, and then I have a friend

588
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: who takes a break and runs for an hour. I

589
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: have a friend who takes a break and goes to

590
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: a yoga class I have, you know, so lots of

591
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: us kind of do this where we're we get into

592
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: the day and then get our workout in. Some people

593
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: do it later in the day. I do it about

594
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: eight forty five. I do three days a week if yoga,

595
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: and I do three days a week of cardio, and

596
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: that mix has been super effective for me. I was

597
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: doing all yoga for a while, and I just found

598
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: that for me that the hardcore sweat of cardio was

599
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: something that I needed at least a couple of days

600
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: a week, but then the yoga was something that I

601
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: needed too, So that combination has been really, really effective

602
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: for me. So I do about a half hour to

603
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: forty five minutes of a workout. Then I grab an

604
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: apple and a second cup of coffee, and I go

605
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: to my desk and usually I do mostly meetings in

606
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:30,239
Speaker 1: that block, from you know, breakfast to lunch I do.

607
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: I have most of my meetings scheduled. I break for lunch,

608
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: watch a little bit of TV, and then I'm back

609
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: at my desk about a half hour later. And my

610
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: afternoons I try to save for quiet work that takes

611
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: more concentration, and so I always have a second or

612
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: a third and maybe even fourth cup of coffee during

613
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: that block because I need it. And then I wrap

614
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: up around five, and I put my phone completely away

615
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: like I live, literally put it at the other side

616
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: of the house on the charger where I can't see

617
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: it or hear it, because I'm very tempted if I

618
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: don't if I don't do that, and so I will.

619
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: I put it completely away. From five to seven, we're

620
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: doing dinner, homework. Take Jackson to karate, that kind of thing.

621
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: Do you go to karate? I do know, I see

622
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: you did, You're absolutely I do you take good book

623
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: at karate, but that's you know, during that time. Yeah,

624
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: he's he's doing his things, so he's good to go.

625
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: Although I have lately been trying to actually read if

626
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: I go, you know, when I go to karate, read

627
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: a book, like a fiction book that i'm you know,

628
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: instead of being on my phone. I'm probably only successful

629
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: about half the time, but I'm working on it. And

630
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: then we you know, seven o'clock Jackson goes to bed,

631
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: he reads for about a half hour. Will I take

632
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: a shower, and then I try to and seven to

633
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: eight o'clock kind of take in a shower, reading a

634
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: book that I want to be reading, getting a little

635
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: bit of time completely on my own, and then at

636
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: eight join up with my husband. And there might be

637
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: a little more work at that time of day for me.

638
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: I don't expect it in my staff, but a lot

639
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: of times I do some more work at that time

640
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: of day. And then my husband and I go to

641
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: bed about ten thirty. So do it all again the

642
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: next day. Sounds good. We love the detailed schedule. We're

643
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: all about the detailed schedule because you can always learn.

644
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: You can always learn something even if your day looks

645
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: very different, like it's a nice reminder and an inspiration

646
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: to just shove your phone completely out of sight during

647
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: some window. I think many of us want to do

648
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: that and then struggle. But I like your hard cutoffs

649
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: except for crime. Yet exactly exactly it is. It's a

650
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: struggle for sure to not feel like, oh I just

651
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: I just want to check because there was that one

652
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: email I wanted to see if that person got back

653
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: to me. That kind of it's a really really big struggle,

654
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: and I have to say I it is not easy

655
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: for me to do, and there's sundays I'm more successful

656
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: than others, but that's something that I try as sociated

657
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: during that one block to be really good about it.

658
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: So just pivoting a little bit to advice for for

659
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: our listeners. You know, we have a lot of people

660
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 1: who are in management or aspire to be and would

661
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 1: like to be able to allow people who work with

662
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 1: them to work flexibly, maybe work remotely and all that.

663
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: How could you sort of dip your toe into you're

664
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 1: especially if you're in a more traditional company culture and

665
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 1: then suddenly you're in management. How can you make that work? Absolutely?

666
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 1: I think that again what we did that was the

667
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 1: most successful in moving us to where we are right

668
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: now is taking it really slow. So what I would

669
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 1: say is if you have, if you're a manager, and

670
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: you have members of your team who've expressed that this

671
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: would something, this would be something that they would love

672
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: to do, I would say, first of all, you have

673
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: to make sure does your gut tell you that you

674
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: can that this would be a good move for that person,

675
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,720
Speaker 1: for that person's work if it's Sometimes there are different

676
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,919
Speaker 1: kinds of work that simply I mean, Sarah, you fall

677
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: into this category that just can't be done at home,

678
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: mostly mostly funny, because actually there's a lot of moves

679
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 1: towards more telemedicine, and you never know, my job may

680
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: not be as in person ten years from now as

681
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: it is now. But yes, you're right, there are some

682
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: constraints exactly. And then and I think that's one kind

683
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: of issue. But then the other issue is if your

684
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: gut tells you that that particular person, something about it

685
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 1: is niggling at you that maybe that you know it's

686
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: not right for that particular person, then I think as

687
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: a manager, you have to really really listen to your

688
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: gut and think about why am I having that thought?

689
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: Because ideally you want to have people on your team

690
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: that you know that even if you're not looking, they're

691
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: going to be doing a really good job. So I'm

692
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: just you know, taking a really close look at that.

693
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: I think is a good idea just from a team

694
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: health perspective. Once you've decided that both the work would

695
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,919
Speaker 1: be okay from home or some you know, some portion

696
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: of it, and that the person is someone who you

697
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 1: feel can handle it, then I would say dip just

698
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: like you said, dip your toe in the water. Let

699
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: them start with an afternoon. Maybe you just say, you

700
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: know what, let's try Friday afternoon. Let's see how that works.

701
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: And then maybe they expand to all day Friday, and

702
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 1: then they expand to Wednesday and Friday. This is exactly

703
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: how we did it. Here comes to guide and just

704
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: slowly over time as we felt as we saw that

705
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: results were not only as good, they were better. When

706
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 1: we were working from home, we were able to get

707
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: more concentrated work, more done in a period of time

708
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 1: than we were in our physical office. Then it becomes

709
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 1: a lot easier to expand that both, you know, with

710
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 1: an individual person and then across teams, because then you

711
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: can see your results and you can feel really good about. Yes,

712
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: this is this is not only working. We're thriving in

713
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: this way. So I think it just has to be something.

714
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 1: If it's where you want to go, you just have

715
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: to make a plan and slowly execute on. Why do

716
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 1: you think you were more productive in this set up? Oh?

717
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: I mean there's no question that if you when you're

718
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: together in an office at least I'll just speak for

719
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: our office there, it becomes a lot easier to spend

720
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: the five or ten minutes kind of chatting about this

721
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: or that, whereas otherwise you'd go straight to your desk

722
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:22,959
Speaker 1: and be right back at whatever you're doing. Now. Again,

723
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: it's not to say that I don't encourage that kind

724
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: of connection, but we found that on the days that

725
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: we were working from home, we could just zoom through

726
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 1: a ton of work compared to when we were actually

727
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: you know, around other people and the distractions that come

728
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: with working. We kind of had an open plan office

729
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 1: where you can hear a lot and because a lot

730
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: of what we do is straight up sales that's on

731
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 1: the phone, there's always kind of a hum and you

732
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: could get a little distracted, you know by that. And

733
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 1: so I think that that was a piece of it.

734
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 1: And that really goes to kind of one of my

735
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 1: platforms about you know, managing remote teams or one of

736
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: the soap issues for me is that I I mean,

737
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: we found that there is just absolutely no question that

738
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: even if my team is working eight hours a day

739
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: compared to other teams, especially you know, we're very close

740
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 1: to Silicon Valley here where this expectation is, you know,

741
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: sixty seventy eighty hours of work. I will put my

742
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: team up against any team as far as how much

743
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: they can get done in eight hours. Now. I don't

744
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: know if it's because the vast majority of us are

745
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,439
Speaker 1: moms and so we're super used to having to be like, Okay,

746
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna power through this, and I'm going to power

747
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: through that. But they get so much done in that

748
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: eight hours and then come back fresh to the next day.

749
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: So it's a system that works really well for our company.

750
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 1: That's great, and it seems like it's working for you.

751
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 1: If you put in your notes here that you have

752
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: an almost zero percent turnover, right, we do. That's actually

753
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: a metric that we're super super proud of, and it's

754
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of that has to do with

755
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 1: the culture, no question, But a lot of that has

756
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: to do with the fact that it's pretty awesome to

757
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 1: have a job where it's portable, right, you can go

758
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: your husband. We have a couple of people who work

759
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 1: for me whose husbands are in the military, and then

760
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: just jobs in general change when they know that they

761
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 1: can pick up and they can go to you know,

762
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: almost anywhere and continue to do their job. It just

763
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 1: makes it just makes a lot of sense. It's a

764
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,320
Speaker 1: huge benefit. I mean, that's that's amazing, just that guarantee.

765
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: I mean, why would you want to leave if you're

766
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: happy and you have that degree of portability and flexibility.

767
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: I can see why you have that statistic. That's amazing.

768
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: Anything else, Sarah, you want to get a throw in there?

769
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 1: Not Well. I will say that I am a long

770
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: time Penelope loves List reader and I'm sad that it's

771
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,760
Speaker 1: not really being I don't think unless it still exists

772
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: and it just doesn't come to my feed Lee, any

773
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: plans to resurrect that. Am I missing something? Are you

774
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: still writing there? No? You know what, You're totally right,

775
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: And it's one of those things where I don't want

776
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,919
Speaker 1: to say that we're never going to resurrect Penelope Loves

777
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 1: list Right now, we're so concentrated on growing here comes

778
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: the Guide and doing a lot of really fun and

779
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 1: interesting things there that we have kind of had to

780
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: had to turn down Penelope for now. But I love it,

781
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: and I'm definitely not willing to say that at some

782
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: point where we won't find a way to wrap it

783
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: into what we're already doing, or you know, have it

784
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 1: continue to be at some thing I still do. I love,

785
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 1: I absolutely love it, So maybe someday, well, our listeners

786
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: can check out your archives if nothing else, Well, there's

787
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: a lot of a section at the end here where

788
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: we all we do our love of the weeks, so

789
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: they don't have to be profound. They can be pretty mundane.

790
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: And mine is definitely mundane this week, so we'll have

791
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: you share years in a minute, but mine is pure

792
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: l because we are we are hand sanitizer addicts around here,

793
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 1: which you know, it's the getting the kids in the

794
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: habit of putting the hand sanitized around when they come

795
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 1: home or when they've been out doing whatever. It's been

796
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,839
Speaker 1: a winter of a lot of crud going around, as

797
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: as Meredith knows, given the number of her employees who

798
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 1: are have sick kids home with them, So anything we

799
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 1: can do to fight that is just awesome. So yay

800
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: Purel Sarah. How about you? Yes, Corell. Well, since we

801
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: open this with my first day back at work, I

802
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: will give you love and hate to my spectra s too.

803
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: Breast pump. People have asked me, you know which one

804
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: do I use? Do I like it? They are all terrible,

805
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: I think compared to a baby, but this is the

806
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: best one that I've used. And I've used the like

807
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: industrial rent rented Symphony, and I've used a pump and

808
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: style and this one is a little quieter and seems

809
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: to suck a little better. So yay love hate to

810
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: my spectras. Too. Awesome about you, Meredith? Yeah, okay, all right.

811
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: So I mean, so the number one thing that I

812
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 1: thought of as soon as you said that was I

813
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,399
Speaker 1: talked about the fact that I do yoga. The only

814
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: reason that I'm able to do that three times a

815
00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: week is because I do it at home, and so

816
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: I have to give my love to the YouTube channel

817
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: Yoga with Adrian. She is so awesome. She's absolutely introduced

818
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: me to yoga and helped me to develop my home

819
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 1: practice in a way that's been really beneficial to me.

820
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: So I have to give a shout out to yoga

821
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: with Adrian. And then I read a book recently that

822
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: I loved so much that I just have to share it.

823
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: And it's called The Castle of Water and it's by

824
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: Dane Hucklebridge believe it's the author's name. But it's a

825
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: stranded on a deserted island, like literally, there's a plane

826
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: crash and these two people survive and they're stranded literally

827
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: on a deserted island for an extended period of time.

828
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: It's a man and a woman and I won't say

829
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: anything more about that, but it is just one of

830
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,919
Speaker 1: the best books I've read in a really, really long time.

831
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: It's not super long, absolutely a page turner, but it's

832
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 1: really beautiful and it speaks to Largerie is She's in

833
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 1: all the good stuff and all the feeling. So I

834
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 1: definitely have to give a love to The Castle of Water. Right,

835
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: we'll post put that on, put it on my lip.

836
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: We're on it all right, Well, thank you so much

837
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: for doing this, Meredith. We really appreciate it. Thanks for

838
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: coming on. Oh, thank you. I have absolutely loved it.

839
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: Our Q and A for the week comes from a

840
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 1: listener who I think wrote in to Laura. This is

841
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: someone who I'm going to read a bit of her question.

842
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 1: She's thirty three years old, and she says, I'm considering

843
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: the idea of taking the ELSAT and applying to law school.

844
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: My kids are eleven, eight and four, so I'm past

845
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 1: the baby stages. She's currently making a good salary as

846
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: a paralegal and enjoys her job, but she says I'm

847
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: ready for a new challenge. I have two choices. Be

848
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 1: the best paralegal I can be and seek new opportunities

849
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: as they come, or halt life for a season in

850
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: order to attend law school, after which I will be

851
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: a late thirty something lawyer and a see if candidates

852
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: ten years younger than me. Should I start down this

853
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 1: path toward law school or should I find contentment where

854
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 1: I'm at? That is a tough question. I was sort

855
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:03,720
Speaker 1: of framed as am I too old for law school?

856
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 1: I think the title she put on this email, which no,

857
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone's ever too old for law school.

858
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 1: But you know, obviously the question of whether to go

859
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: back to school is a huge one for people, and

860
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 1: particularly something that can be sort of all consuming, like

861
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: like law school a professional school in general, could be

862
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: quite a commitment. So I wrote back to her a

863
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: couple of things. I mean, first, one thing that's important

864
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: to understand. This woman had done really well in college,

865
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: like she graduated summa cum laude, but she said she

866
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: just wanted to be a stay at home mom. Coming

867
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: out of college, she got married, she had three children relatively,

868
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: you know, early she had been working two mornings a

869
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 1: week as a legal secretary, and then she decided that

870
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: she could incorporate work into her life, and so she started,

871
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 1: you know, a job as a paralegal. She caught up

872
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 1: basically with other people around her age, like she was

873
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: really gung ho about it, loving her j So this

874
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: question is that she's around lawyers all the time and

875
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: sees that she'd kind of like to have the professional

876
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:10,479
Speaker 1: career that they have. So questions should she start now?

877
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: And I think the better question to be asking is

878
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,320
Speaker 1: before you go to law school, is do you want

879
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: to be a lawyer or otherwise want to be something

880
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 1: that absolutely requires a law degree. And the question for

881
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 1: that is as you look at both the lawyers you

882
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: work with and the ones you meet through your other interactions.

883
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 1: Does their day to day life look like the life

884
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: you want? And the reason I'm asking this is because,

885
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,839
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, the legal profession we're going to, we're

886
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 1: gonna have some future guests who are lawyers. We've had

887
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: pass ones who love law. It's just I know that

888
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: a lot of people have gone into law partly because

889
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 1: they're watching like Law and Order or something like that,

890
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 1: and then the reality of it is different, and there's

891
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: the whole billible hour thing, which a lot of people

892
00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: really dislike it. It happens to be a field, be

893
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: a feel where a lot of people decide later that

894
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: it's not really what they wanted to do. So I

895
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: think the first thing to make sure is that you

896
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 1: know exactly what your day to day will look like

897
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: and that that is the life you want before you

898
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: make this investment of time. If it's more that you

899
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 1: want a more professional career, there are lots of other

900
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:20,720
Speaker 1: ways into that. I mean, one you can just apply

901
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: for jobs you know you've got a college degree is

902
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 1: to see, you know, a great work with history, see

903
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 1: what you can do. You know. There might be things

904
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,280
Speaker 1: like getting an MBA would be a shorter process, for instance,

905
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 1: and many of those are are very doable online, you know,

906
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: or at least a sort of small in classroom commitment

907
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: and more online coursework, and then you know you have

908
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,399
Speaker 1: a professional career options with with the MBA. But if

909
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 1: you look at it and say, yeah, you know, I

910
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,720
Speaker 1: this is I really truly want to be a practicing lawyer.

911
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: I love what they do. I love what the lawyers

912
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 1: around me do. I think I could do well in

913
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: this and would enjoy it, then sure, go for it.

914
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: And I think you know, there are ways to make

915
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: it work with family life. For anything that a parent

916
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,959
Speaker 1: truly wants to do. I mean, what would you say, Sarah, Yeah,

917
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: I mean to me, I have to sort of contrast

918
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,359
Speaker 1: it with what I know about medicine and really three

919
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 1: years of school and then being able to market yourself

920
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 1: at least hope. I mean, I don't know what the

921
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: job market looks like for lawyers, but even if she

922
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: couldn't find her dream job, assuming that she did very

923
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: well in law school, which I think this woman has

924
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 1: a very good chance of doing, I would think that

925
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 1: she could find something. Three years is pretty good. I mean,

926
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: coming from the medical perspective, where it's you know, to

927
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: get a job actually practicing medicine. It's four years of

928
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: med school, three years of residency. If you're not doing

929
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,919
Speaker 1: a specialty in which you're usually not treated particularly well,

930
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 1: then three more years of a specialty or even more

931
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 1: that the three years to me sounds like, oh yeah,

932
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 1: that's a pretty good deal. I mean, I agree, just

933
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: to make sure that you do want that day to

934
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: day life as a lawyer, and it's not about looking

935
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: around you and saying I could do that too, because

936
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: I mean there is a temptation to that. I hear

937
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,240
Speaker 1: that from some nurse practitioners that like sometimes they feel tempted.

938
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 1: They feel like they could do with the other doctors

939
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: do and their job is not treated with as much respect,

940
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 1: so that that tempts them to want to get the

941
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,439
Speaker 1: extra you know, education. But at the end of the day,

942
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: you have to actually do the math in terms of

943
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: time and money whether that would actually be worth it.

944
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: And I would say in an older like nurse practitioner

945
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 1: a PA, it may not be worth it. If they're

946
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: younger and they have tons of years to practice ahead

947
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,760
Speaker 1: of them, then it may be. So yeah, I think

948
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 1: that if this is financially doable and you do want

949
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: the life of a lawyer three years doesn't sound too terrible.

950
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: And I also would encourage, you know, again, depending on

951
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: the finances, look into grants and scholarships in a not

952
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: terribly expensive private law school if you can, as long

953
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: as you know that you could still get career opportunities there,

954
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: because I do think that, you know, it may be

955
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: tempted to go for a big name, but settling yourself

956
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 1: with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt would be

957
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,320
Speaker 1: pretty daunting. Yeah, at that I would say that she

958
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,879
Speaker 1: put her options halt life for a season in order

959
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: to attend law school. So I don't know that you

960
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 1: would actually have to halt for a season. Well you can, yeah,

961
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: Well she's got three kids, so she's kind of hault life.

962
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,879
Speaker 1: There's you're still going to have those three kids through

963
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: the time of law school. You know, there may be

964
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 1: sort of ways to go slightly quicker through. I mean,

965
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 1: I don't know a lot of traditional law schools. Obviously,

966
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: you're not going in the summer. You're working at a

967
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 1: firm in the summer, which is a way to earn

968
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 1: money too. Like, right, if you could, you could pay

969
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: for part of your law school with you know, your

970
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: summer jobs, and you could also, but or maybe it's

971
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: possible to go through classwork quicker. If you worked and

972
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: did class work in the summers too, maybe you'd be

973
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 1: able to get through it faster. I would say, you know,

974
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: my husband went through law school, I mean back when

975
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 1: he was in his twenties, so it's not like you

976
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: know a anyway, but by living very frugally and then

977
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,800
Speaker 1: you know, taking the money he earned from his summer

978
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,280
Speaker 1: stints because summer legal jobs I think pay reasonably well.

979
00:49:55,960 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: And then you know, he was paying off his loans

980
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 1: within one year afterwards, because again you know, having this

981
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 1: law degree, you can then earn a fairly good salary

982
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: coming out. And not just in the legal world. I

983
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 1: mean he wound up working for a consulting firm but

984
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 1: sort of similar level, so he was he was debt

985
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 1: free by a year afterwards. So I mean, you know,

986
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:22,720
Speaker 1: even the finances could in theory work themselves out relatively quickly.

987
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:24,879
Speaker 1: But I think you probably want to want to run

988
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: those numbers very hair throw up some models. Yes, definitactly

989
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 1: those numbers, and you know, if your family's on board

990
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 1: with it, great, you know, I think obviously if the

991
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: family isn't on board with it, that's an entirely different matter,

992
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: but hopefully best of all worlds hair there the children

993
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 1: will be inspired by seeing mom tackle her coursework, learn

994
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 1: good study habits from her, learn the importance of education

995
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: from seeing her go through it as well. So yeah,

996
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 1: upsides to it, but obviously she has to figure out

997
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 1: what works for her well. This has been best of

998
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 1: both worlds. We've been talking with Meredith Monday Schwartz on

999
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 1: how to be a good Boy. Lots of career topics

1000
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: in this one, so we're looking forward to next week

1001
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,280
Speaker 1: where we'll be talking more about making work in life system.

1002
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the

1003
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,

1004
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 1: and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.

1005
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,720
Speaker 1: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please

1006
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 1: join us next time for more on making work and

1007
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: life work together.