1 00:00:09,562 --> 00:00:10,242 Speaker 1: Originals. 2 00:00:10,362 --> 00:00:12,522 Speaker 2: This is an iHeart original. 3 00:00:17,442 --> 00:00:23,482 Speaker 3: The food was notoriously bad in FDR's White House. After all, 4 00:00:23,522 --> 00:00:27,522 Speaker 3: it was the Great Depression when his presidency began, and 5 00:00:27,762 --> 00:00:32,602 Speaker 3: one of First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt's tasks was to economize 6 00:00:32,642 --> 00:00:37,042 Speaker 3: the kitchen. Suddenly White House china was being used to 7 00:00:37,122 --> 00:00:43,482 Speaker 3: serve gelatin salads. Prune pudding was another common menu item. 8 00:00:44,002 --> 00:00:47,842 Speaker 3: Eleanor even encouraged the housekeeper to use milk or No, 9 00:00:48,122 --> 00:00:52,042 Speaker 3: a lab made powder, aptly named for its ingredients of 10 00:00:52,522 --> 00:00:58,122 Speaker 3: dried skim, milk and corn meal. Visitors who had joined 11 00:00:58,122 --> 00:01:01,682 Speaker 3: the Roosevelts for a meal sometimes shared a word to 12 00:01:01,722 --> 00:01:06,522 Speaker 3: the whys eat before you arrive. Ernest Hemingway even sent 13 00:01:06,602 --> 00:01:10,162 Speaker 3: ale after he dined in the White House, detailing the 14 00:01:10,202 --> 00:01:14,122 Speaker 3: worst meal of his life. He wrote, we had a 15 00:01:14,242 --> 00:01:19,002 Speaker 3: rainwater soup, followed by rubber squab, a nice wilted salad, 16 00:01:19,082 --> 00:01:23,082 Speaker 3: and a cake some admirer had sent in an enthusiastic 17 00:01:23,282 --> 00:01:30,082 Speaker 3: but unskilled admirer. Perhaps while digesting post meal, it must 18 00:01:30,082 --> 00:01:34,482 Speaker 3: have clicked for Hemingway. Why his companion that evening had 19 00:01:34,602 --> 00:01:39,482 Speaker 3: scarfed down a few sandwiches on the way over, So 20 00:01:39,602 --> 00:01:43,162 Speaker 3: maybe it was yet another dreary menu that had diners 21 00:01:43,202 --> 00:01:46,482 Speaker 3: itching to get away from the table. On April twentieth, 22 00:01:46,682 --> 00:01:51,282 Speaker 3: nineteen thirty three, the guests that evening included the First 23 00:01:51,402 --> 00:01:55,722 Speaker 3: Lady's brother and a couple big shots in the aviation industry. 24 00:01:56,122 --> 00:01:58,962 Speaker 3: An airline president as well as these soon to be 25 00:01:59,122 --> 00:02:03,842 Speaker 3: leader of government work on aeronautics. Fdr himself was out 26 00:02:03,842 --> 00:02:07,922 Speaker 3: of town. But there was one more influential figure sitting 27 00:02:07,962 --> 00:02:12,482 Speaker 3: at the table subjected to rubbery meat and whatever a 28 00:02:12,802 --> 00:02:19,042 Speaker 3: combination salad is. It was Amelia Earhart. She was as 29 00:02:19,122 --> 00:02:23,322 Speaker 3: big a celebrity as any in nineteen thirty three, admired 30 00:02:23,362 --> 00:02:27,162 Speaker 3: most for her daring solo flight across the Atlantic Ocean 31 00:02:27,282 --> 00:02:31,002 Speaker 3: the year before. So maybe it was the thrill of 32 00:02:31,042 --> 00:02:33,882 Speaker 3: sitting next to a world record breaker that made the 33 00:02:33,922 --> 00:02:38,242 Speaker 3: others eager to abandon their plates for something more audacious. 34 00:02:39,242 --> 00:02:42,802 Speaker 3: Whatever the reason, Amelia delivered on giving them the ultimate 35 00:02:42,882 --> 00:02:46,002 Speaker 3: excuse to leave the table. She was going to take 36 00:02:46,042 --> 00:02:50,322 Speaker 3: them all on a joy ride. Amelia, Eleanor and the 37 00:02:50,362 --> 00:02:53,842 Speaker 3: rest of the party drove to the local airport. They 38 00:02:53,882 --> 00:02:58,602 Speaker 3: climbed aboard an Eastern Air Transport twin engine Curtis Condor. 39 00:02:59,202 --> 00:03:02,842 Speaker 3: It looked how you might imagine an old timey plane 40 00:03:02,842 --> 00:03:06,202 Speaker 3: looks with two wings stacked on top of each other, 41 00:03:06,642 --> 00:03:09,522 Speaker 3: only big enough to fit a dozen or so people. 42 00:03:10,242 --> 00:03:13,482 Speaker 3: These passengers were part of an elite group in the 43 00:03:13,522 --> 00:03:18,282 Speaker 3: early thirties. Practically no Americans had ever even set foot 44 00:03:18,362 --> 00:03:21,642 Speaker 3: in a plane. Now in the air and looking down 45 00:03:22,002 --> 00:03:24,882 Speaker 3: they could see the Washington Monument and the White House 46 00:03:25,082 --> 00:03:29,682 Speaker 3: lit up against the dark sky. It was absolutely magical. 47 00:03:31,162 --> 00:03:35,522 Speaker 3: They flew to Baltimore and back. Amelia steered the plane. 48 00:03:35,642 --> 00:03:38,442 Speaker 3: Eleanor was in the control cabin with her, where she 49 00:03:38,522 --> 00:03:41,402 Speaker 3: said she felt quote on top of the world with 50 00:03:41,482 --> 00:03:46,762 Speaker 3: an unobstructed view. Another newspaper quoted Missus Roosevelt as saying, 51 00:03:47,042 --> 00:03:50,202 Speaker 3: it does mark an epoch, doesn't it when a girl 52 00:03:50,282 --> 00:03:53,362 Speaker 3: in an evening dress and slippers can pilot a plane 53 00:03:53,402 --> 00:03:58,202 Speaker 3: at night? The two women looked picture perfect, still in 54 00:03:58,242 --> 00:04:02,042 Speaker 3: their dinner party attire. They were wearing long gowns and 55 00:04:02,202 --> 00:04:06,642 Speaker 3: evening wraps. Eleanor was in a hat. Amelia had white 56 00:04:06,642 --> 00:04:11,602 Speaker 3: glas Son. This was the pinnacle of glamor and excitement, 57 00:04:12,082 --> 00:04:15,682 Speaker 3: a spectacle heightened by the depression the country was facing. 58 00:04:16,242 --> 00:04:19,442 Speaker 3: It wasn't every day that the first lady and the 59 00:04:19,482 --> 00:04:22,042 Speaker 3: first Lady of the Air just hopped. 60 00:04:21,762 --> 00:04:22,842 Speaker 4: In an airplane. 61 00:04:23,002 --> 00:04:27,522 Speaker 3: This was an adventure for the Ages. The event was 62 00:04:27,562 --> 00:04:31,602 Speaker 3: first documented in the papers and newsreels, and now it's 63 00:04:31,642 --> 00:04:36,122 Speaker 3: written into books and strewn across the Internet. The story 64 00:04:36,322 --> 00:04:40,402 Speaker 3: is often recounted as an impulsive, spur of the moment 65 00:04:40,562 --> 00:04:44,602 Speaker 3: decision to sneak away from dinner and take a wild ride. 66 00:04:45,402 --> 00:04:49,322 Speaker 3: But today's episode isn't about being caught up in the moment. 67 00:04:50,002 --> 00:04:55,802 Speaker 3: It's actually about being calculated, because Eleanor and Amelia's flight 68 00:04:55,922 --> 00:05:03,322 Speaker 3: of fancy may have just been a pr stunt. Welcome 69 00:05:03,442 --> 00:05:08,482 Speaker 3: to Very Special Episodes and iHeart original podcas. I'm your host, 70 00:05:08,602 --> 00:05:13,282 Speaker 3: Danish Schwartz and this is the joy Ride. 71 00:05:16,522 --> 00:05:20,082 Speaker 5: Welcome back to very Special Episodes. I'm Jason English, very 72 00:05:20,162 --> 00:05:22,602 Speaker 5: lucky as always to be here with Danish Schwartz and 73 00:05:22,682 --> 00:05:23,362 Speaker 5: Zarn Burnett. 74 00:05:23,442 --> 00:05:26,042 Speaker 6: Hey what's up guys? Hey, Hey, what of Dana? What 75 00:05:26,122 --> 00:05:26,602 Speaker 6: of Jason? 76 00:05:27,482 --> 00:05:31,162 Speaker 3: This one, I have to say, is very very special 77 00:05:31,242 --> 00:05:33,922 Speaker 3: for me because in third grade, I don't want to brag, 78 00:05:34,002 --> 00:05:37,682 Speaker 3: but I did play Eleanor Roosevelt in our school's interactive 79 00:05:38,002 --> 00:05:41,882 Speaker 3: wax museum. Hell yeah, so I feel a particular kinship 80 00:05:41,962 --> 00:05:42,882 Speaker 3: to this episode. 81 00:05:42,922 --> 00:05:45,402 Speaker 5: So we've got casting already. We don't have to do 82 00:05:45,442 --> 00:05:45,842 Speaker 5: that later. 83 00:05:47,402 --> 00:05:48,522 Speaker 6: You could play all the parts. 84 00:05:49,242 --> 00:05:50,522 Speaker 4: I'll reprise my role. 85 00:05:52,602 --> 00:05:56,042 Speaker 3: This so called night flight that Eleanor and Amelia took, 86 00:05:56,402 --> 00:06:00,442 Speaker 3: it was so swinky, so spirited. From the outside looking in, 87 00:06:00,602 --> 00:06:03,802 Speaker 3: it really seemed to be. 88 00:06:02,842 --> 00:06:06,922 Speaker 7: A joy ride, a skylark, a wonderful adventure. 89 00:06:07,042 --> 00:06:12,362 Speaker 3: Your Susan Ware studies twentieth century US history and women's biography. 90 00:06:12,802 --> 00:06:17,082 Speaker 3: She knows a lot about Eleanor Roosevelt and Amelia Earhart. 91 00:06:17,442 --> 00:06:21,122 Speaker 7: They are kind of hard to miss in twentieth century 92 00:06:21,202 --> 00:06:22,322 Speaker 7: American history. 93 00:06:22,562 --> 00:06:25,922 Speaker 3: They knew it too, and standing by the plane's door 94 00:06:26,082 --> 00:06:30,802 Speaker 3: on that nineteen thirty three spring evening, Eleanor and Amelia 95 00:06:30,962 --> 00:06:33,762 Speaker 3: made it clear to the press that they were embarking 96 00:06:33,802 --> 00:06:35,002 Speaker 3: on something special. 97 00:06:35,882 --> 00:06:39,162 Speaker 4: Missus Rotha, won't you go for a ride tonight over Washington. 98 00:06:39,282 --> 00:06:40,522 Speaker 8: It's really lovely from. 99 00:06:40,322 --> 00:06:43,122 Speaker 4: The air at night. I'd be very glad to go 100 00:06:43,282 --> 00:06:46,482 Speaker 4: over the ride overwatching I like going at night and 101 00:06:46,602 --> 00:06:48,042 Speaker 4: seeing the night very much. 102 00:06:48,842 --> 00:06:52,082 Speaker 3: In this clip, they're already on the tarmac ready to go, 103 00:06:52,642 --> 00:06:55,162 Speaker 3: but they're talking as if their decision to take the 104 00:06:55,202 --> 00:06:58,882 Speaker 3: flight is being made right there right then a little 105 00:06:58,922 --> 00:07:01,082 Speaker 3: feigned surprise, never heard anyone right. 106 00:07:01,562 --> 00:07:05,802 Speaker 7: But for the record, it can't have been totally spontaneous 107 00:07:06,362 --> 00:07:09,682 Speaker 7: because she don't leave the White House and go to 108 00:07:09,722 --> 00:07:12,162 Speaker 7: an airport and commandeer a plane. 109 00:07:12,802 --> 00:07:16,882 Speaker 3: Susan's right, Amelia had arranged a plane before they left. 110 00:07:16,602 --> 00:07:17,282 Speaker 4: The White House. 111 00:07:17,642 --> 00:07:20,842 Speaker 3: Press was notified and gathered to see them take off. 112 00:07:21,202 --> 00:07:24,722 Speaker 3: There were even journalists on board. And if we're getting 113 00:07:24,802 --> 00:07:28,162 Speaker 3: technical about things, Amelia was in control of the plane 114 00:07:28,322 --> 00:07:31,202 Speaker 3: for part of the flight, but not the whole time. 115 00:07:31,802 --> 00:07:36,522 Speaker 3: A male pilot took off and landed the plane, probably 116 00:07:36,642 --> 00:07:41,042 Speaker 3: for legal reasons. That didn't take away from the triumph 117 00:07:41,162 --> 00:07:44,242 Speaker 3: of this event, but it did mean that it wasn't 118 00:07:44,442 --> 00:07:48,882 Speaker 3: low key. But really, almost nothing these women did was 119 00:07:49,042 --> 00:07:53,682 Speaker 3: low key. It really can't be overstated how famous they were. 120 00:07:54,922 --> 00:07:57,242 Speaker 7: Well, I think this is the first time I've ever 121 00:07:57,282 --> 00:08:01,922 Speaker 7: been asked to compare Amelia Earhart to Taylor Swift. But 122 00:08:02,442 --> 00:08:05,482 Speaker 7: there is a way in which both of these women 123 00:08:05,722 --> 00:08:10,202 Speaker 7: are figures that everybody knows about, and I think it's 124 00:08:10,322 --> 00:08:14,322 Speaker 7: at that level, the kind of Oprah Winfrey, Taylor Swift, 125 00:08:14,602 --> 00:08:16,482 Speaker 7: it's up there in the stratosphere. 126 00:08:16,602 --> 00:08:19,562 Speaker 3: In nineteen twenty eight, Amelia was the first woman to 127 00:08:19,642 --> 00:08:23,922 Speaker 3: cross the Atlantic in a plane called Friendship. The flight 128 00:08:24,202 --> 00:08:28,402 Speaker 3: turned her into an overnight celebrity. After it, she needed 129 00:08:28,602 --> 00:08:32,122 Speaker 3: four secretaries to deal with all the fan mail she received. 130 00:08:32,802 --> 00:08:37,242 Speaker 3: But Amelia wasn't actually the pilot on the Friendship. She 131 00:08:37,442 --> 00:08:41,242 Speaker 3: was just a passenger, which she compared to feeling like 132 00:08:41,322 --> 00:08:46,682 Speaker 3: a quote sack of potatoes. So a few years later, 133 00:08:46,882 --> 00:08:50,602 Speaker 3: in nineteen thirty two, she made the trip on her own. 134 00:08:51,442 --> 00:08:54,522 Speaker 6: Four years ago, I was here after the Friendship. 135 00:08:54,842 --> 00:08:58,842 Speaker 5: This time I tried to justify that flight by going alone. 136 00:08:58,882 --> 00:09:02,362 Speaker 3: This truck made her the second person ever and the 137 00:09:02,402 --> 00:09:06,562 Speaker 3: first woman, to fly across the Atlantic solo. It took 138 00:09:06,602 --> 00:09:11,562 Speaker 3: nearly fifteen hours, just her and a single engine. 139 00:09:11,642 --> 00:09:14,282 Speaker 7: Not even two engines, in case one goes out. We 140 00:09:14,322 --> 00:09:18,322 Speaker 7: all know that she disappeared on her last flight, trying 141 00:09:18,322 --> 00:09:20,842 Speaker 7: to do around the world flight in nineteen thirty seven, 142 00:09:21,002 --> 00:09:24,522 Speaker 7: and so in many ways that's people's image of Amelia Earhart. 143 00:09:24,602 --> 00:09:27,642 Speaker 7: But I think if that hadn't happened, what we would 144 00:09:27,682 --> 00:09:30,842 Speaker 7: remember her for is this nineteen thirty two flight. 145 00:09:31,362 --> 00:09:35,882 Speaker 3: It's true, after this solo flight, the public became enamored 146 00:09:35,962 --> 00:09:39,562 Speaker 3: by her. People wanted to know everything, even the mundane 147 00:09:39,642 --> 00:09:41,522 Speaker 3: details of the journeys she took. 148 00:09:41,922 --> 00:09:45,042 Speaker 8: How did you carry on the trip? You mean to eat, eat, 149 00:09:45,082 --> 00:09:45,482 Speaker 8: and drink. 150 00:09:46,282 --> 00:09:49,322 Speaker 4: Well. I carried some water, of course, because. 151 00:09:49,002 --> 00:09:50,482 Speaker 9: My cockpit is very warm. 152 00:09:51,362 --> 00:09:54,642 Speaker 7: And I carried a sandwich in case I didn't eat it, 153 00:09:54,682 --> 00:10:00,762 Speaker 7: though I carried some hot chocolate, and the all reliable commatitudes. 154 00:10:01,682 --> 00:10:03,082 Speaker 5: What kind of a sandwich was it? 155 00:10:07,322 --> 00:10:11,962 Speaker 3: Amelia's fame was reaching new heights, and the Roosevelts were 156 00:10:11,962 --> 00:10:15,642 Speaker 3: ascending to new levels of power too. As the world 157 00:10:15,722 --> 00:10:20,482 Speaker 3: opened up before these women, they eventually crossed paths and 158 00:10:20,642 --> 00:10:23,722 Speaker 3: they really hit it off. They became friends. 159 00:10:24,682 --> 00:10:29,002 Speaker 7: They were like kindred spirits, and they maintained that really 160 00:10:29,242 --> 00:10:33,562 Speaker 7: for the rest of the thirties. While Amelia Earhart was 161 00:10:33,562 --> 00:10:37,722 Speaker 7: still alive, she was always connecting with Eleanor Roosevelt. Eleanor 162 00:10:37,802 --> 00:10:41,282 Speaker 7: Roosevelt would also mention Amelia Earhart there was this kind 163 00:10:41,322 --> 00:10:45,082 Speaker 7: of reciprocity that wasn't false or forced. 164 00:10:45,802 --> 00:10:50,402 Speaker 3: This friendship carried into the Roosevelt transition from the New 165 00:10:50,522 --> 00:10:54,922 Speaker 3: York Governor's mansion to the White House. Initially, Eleanor was 166 00:10:55,002 --> 00:10:58,602 Speaker 3: reluctant about taking on the role of First Lady, As 167 00:10:58,642 --> 00:11:02,722 Speaker 3: she later reflected, quote, I knew what traditionally should lie 168 00:11:02,762 --> 00:11:06,242 Speaker 3: before me, and I cannot say that I was pleased 169 00:11:06,282 --> 00:11:09,842 Speaker 3: at the prospect. The turmoil in my heart and mind 170 00:11:10,002 --> 00:11:10,842 Speaker 3: was rather great. 171 00:11:11,882 --> 00:11:15,242 Speaker 7: I think she was very concerned that it might clip 172 00:11:15,282 --> 00:11:19,362 Speaker 7: her wings to use a nice aviation metaphor, and that 173 00:11:19,402 --> 00:11:22,642 Speaker 7: she wouldn't be able to beat the free person that 174 00:11:22,762 --> 00:11:25,042 Speaker 7: she was, and she might get trapped in this role 175 00:11:25,482 --> 00:11:28,122 Speaker 7: a first lady. Well, we know that didn't happen, and 176 00:11:28,162 --> 00:11:31,402 Speaker 7: she in fact expanded the role dramatically. 177 00:11:36,042 --> 00:11:40,362 Speaker 10: March nineteen thirty three, Eleanor Roosevelt is swept up in 178 00:11:40,402 --> 00:11:43,922 Speaker 10: the whirlwind of activity surrounding the first days of Franklin 179 00:11:44,002 --> 00:11:49,002 Speaker 10: Roosevelt's administration. From the very beginning, Missus Roosevelt makes it 180 00:11:49,042 --> 00:11:51,122 Speaker 10: clear that she intends to be more than a mere 181 00:11:51,242 --> 00:11:54,682 Speaker 10: ornament on the White House reception line. She is set 182 00:11:54,762 --> 00:11:58,002 Speaker 10: on a tour of the country by Fdr. He wants 183 00:11:58,002 --> 00:12:01,322 Speaker 10: her to serve as his eyes and legs. She seems 184 00:12:01,362 --> 00:12:04,962 Speaker 10: to be perpetually on the moon, writes a weary reporter 185 00:12:05,082 --> 00:12:09,482 Speaker 10: traveling with her. Please make Eleanor tye just for one day. 186 00:12:11,242 --> 00:12:14,962 Speaker 3: The joy ride with Amelia happened in April, less than 187 00:12:15,002 --> 00:12:18,682 Speaker 3: two months after Eleanor's arrival at the White House. It 188 00:12:18,802 --> 00:12:22,922 Speaker 3: was another way of saying, I'm not your traditional first lady, 189 00:12:23,402 --> 00:12:26,762 Speaker 3: I'm making my own way. But the flight had a 190 00:12:26,882 --> 00:12:29,482 Speaker 3: very literal message as well. 191 00:12:29,642 --> 00:12:34,162 Speaker 7: Aviation was a very young industry in nineteen thirty three, 192 00:12:34,802 --> 00:12:40,602 Speaker 7: especially commercial aviation, and so the idea that somebody other 193 00:12:40,762 --> 00:12:44,722 Speaker 7: than just a World War One pilot or a stunt pilot, 194 00:12:44,922 --> 00:12:49,202 Speaker 7: that there could be regularly scheduled airlines that you could 195 00:12:49,362 --> 00:12:53,282 Speaker 7: fly from Washington to New York. These things are all 196 00:12:53,402 --> 00:12:56,802 Speaker 7: very new at the time, and to many people they 197 00:12:56,842 --> 00:13:00,082 Speaker 7: seemed kind of, well, it's just such a weird idea. 198 00:13:00,962 --> 00:13:05,682 Speaker 3: Both Amelia and Eleanor had a passion for aviation. They 199 00:13:05,762 --> 00:13:10,442 Speaker 3: really believed flying was the future. Eleanor got a student 200 00:13:10,682 --> 00:13:15,122 Speaker 3: pilot license at one point, although FDR mixed the idea 201 00:13:15,202 --> 00:13:19,762 Speaker 3: before it went very far, and in a women's magazine column, 202 00:13:19,962 --> 00:13:25,042 Speaker 3: Amelia even suggested all mothers should become pilots so that 203 00:13:25,082 --> 00:13:27,922 Speaker 3: they'd be good parents and help their kids when they're 204 00:13:28,002 --> 00:13:31,802 Speaker 3: flying around all the time, because obviously, in the future 205 00:13:32,322 --> 00:13:35,562 Speaker 3: that's how we'd be getting around day to day. So 206 00:13:35,802 --> 00:13:39,242 Speaker 3: it was important to them to get other women involved 207 00:13:39,322 --> 00:13:46,242 Speaker 3: in this world as pilots and as passengers. Eleanor made 208 00:13:46,282 --> 00:13:50,002 Speaker 3: sure to point out how at ease she was on 209 00:13:50,042 --> 00:13:53,362 Speaker 3: the night flight with Amelia. She was quoted saying she 210 00:13:53,442 --> 00:13:56,522 Speaker 3: felt just as safe with a woman in the cockpit 211 00:13:56,882 --> 00:13:59,042 Speaker 3: as she would have with a man, and that was 212 00:13:59,082 --> 00:13:59,722 Speaker 3: a big deal. 213 00:14:00,482 --> 00:14:04,802 Speaker 7: There's a sense of them both being ambassadors for aviation, 214 00:14:05,722 --> 00:14:11,162 Speaker 7: and they're also ambassaters for opening opportunities for women, and 215 00:14:11,242 --> 00:14:15,922 Speaker 7: so here is this joy ride that combines all of 216 00:14:15,962 --> 00:14:20,282 Speaker 7: those things. And so it's this kind of combination of 217 00:14:20,842 --> 00:14:25,242 Speaker 7: seems very spontaneous, but you get a sense that everyone 218 00:14:25,362 --> 00:14:29,282 Speaker 7: is very aware of the larger symbolism of it. 219 00:14:29,802 --> 00:14:32,762 Speaker 3: Remember it wasn't too long before this that women didn't 220 00:14:32,802 --> 00:14:36,522 Speaker 3: have the constitutional right to vote. They didn't have many 221 00:14:36,562 --> 00:14:41,082 Speaker 3: formalized rights. In the thirties, there were major concerns about 222 00:14:41,082 --> 00:14:45,002 Speaker 3: women in aviation, that they were too scatterbrained to use 223 00:14:45,042 --> 00:14:50,282 Speaker 3: the technology, too emotional to handle possible crises. Male pilots 224 00:14:50,402 --> 00:14:54,802 Speaker 3: worried about training women because of the potential backlash should 225 00:14:54,842 --> 00:14:58,402 Speaker 3: a member of the fairer sex die in an accident. 226 00:14:59,122 --> 00:15:02,842 Speaker 3: Amelia and Eleanor had a message to share with the country, 227 00:15:03,202 --> 00:15:05,482 Speaker 3: and they put on quite the show to do it. 228 00:15:05,962 --> 00:15:08,482 Speaker 3: They made sure the press was there to jot down 229 00:15:08,522 --> 00:15:13,362 Speaker 3: their quotes and snap photographs. These women were no strangers 230 00:15:13,402 --> 00:15:17,842 Speaker 3: to pr and if a headline grabbing opportunity didn't arise 231 00:15:17,882 --> 00:15:23,682 Speaker 3: on its own, they could always create the perfect scenario themselves. 232 00:15:33,642 --> 00:15:37,642 Speaker 3: In the years surrounding the night Flight, Amelia and Eleanor 233 00:15:37,762 --> 00:15:42,082 Speaker 3: weren't just famous, they were a brand new kind of celebrity. 234 00:15:42,962 --> 00:15:45,922 Speaker 9: So you had actresses in the news here in the 235 00:15:46,002 --> 00:15:49,242 Speaker 9: nineteen thirties. And then the other way in which women 236 00:15:49,522 --> 00:15:53,082 Speaker 9: established themselves in the news was in the social realm. 237 00:15:53,202 --> 00:15:56,122 Speaker 9: That's why I went into the women's and society pages. 238 00:15:56,442 --> 00:16:00,722 Speaker 9: But you just didn't see many women of activity and 239 00:16:00,842 --> 00:16:02,882 Speaker 9: accomplishment in the news. 240 00:16:03,202 --> 00:16:04,842 Speaker 4: This is Maureen Beasley. 241 00:16:05,922 --> 00:16:10,682 Speaker 9: I'm a professor Emerita of the Meryll College of Journalism 242 00:16:11,122 --> 00:16:15,642 Speaker 9: at the University of Maryland at College Park. For years, 243 00:16:15,682 --> 00:16:20,322 Speaker 9: I've been interested in the careers of women journalists, starting 244 00:16:20,362 --> 00:16:21,322 Speaker 9: way back when. 245 00:16:21,522 --> 00:16:25,762 Speaker 3: She's studied the ways Eleanor in particular got attention from 246 00:16:25,802 --> 00:16:26,322 Speaker 3: the press. 247 00:16:27,122 --> 00:16:31,762 Speaker 9: And Eleanor Roosevelt definitely was a media celebrity. She recognized 248 00:16:31,802 --> 00:16:35,482 Speaker 9: the importance of the media in all of its forms. 249 00:16:35,802 --> 00:16:40,282 Speaker 9: Eleanor set up these press conferences for women reporters only 250 00:16:40,522 --> 00:16:43,882 Speaker 9: because she wanted to give them news that men couldn't get. 251 00:16:44,442 --> 00:16:48,042 Speaker 3: Eleanor had her first press conference just two days after 252 00:16:48,202 --> 00:16:51,642 Speaker 3: entering the White House. That was before FDR had his. 253 00:16:51,602 --> 00:16:53,602 Speaker 4: First press conference as president. 254 00:16:54,762 --> 00:16:59,042 Speaker 9: She didn't know exactly how to handle herself at first. 255 00:16:59,242 --> 00:17:02,202 Speaker 9: It is said that she walked around and with a 256 00:17:02,242 --> 00:17:06,082 Speaker 9: box of candied fruit and started acting like a hostess. 257 00:17:07,042 --> 00:17:10,722 Speaker 3: As awkward as that first press conference may have been, 258 00:17:11,322 --> 00:17:14,762 Speaker 3: it didn't take her long to find her footing. Eleanor 259 00:17:14,882 --> 00:17:18,162 Speaker 3: had a strong sense for what the country cared about. 260 00:17:18,682 --> 00:17:21,802 Speaker 3: She held many causes near and dear to her heart, 261 00:17:22,402 --> 00:17:26,722 Speaker 3: and she realized these were the kind of stories she 262 00:17:26,802 --> 00:17:31,202 Speaker 3: could share with women journalists. Within a few weeks, she 263 00:17:31,322 --> 00:17:34,562 Speaker 3: was ready to show them and the public what she 264 00:17:34,682 --> 00:17:38,122 Speaker 3: was made of. She invited Amelia to dinner at the 265 00:17:38,122 --> 00:17:38,722 Speaker 3: White House. 266 00:17:39,322 --> 00:17:42,802 Speaker 9: Was a way of courting the public through taking part 267 00:17:42,842 --> 00:17:46,002 Speaker 9: in an event that did make news. Here you had 268 00:17:46,042 --> 00:17:49,082 Speaker 9: two of the most notable women of the era, and 269 00:17:49,202 --> 00:17:52,722 Speaker 9: she took along some of her favorite reporters on this 270 00:17:52,922 --> 00:17:55,882 Speaker 9: flight over Washington. You have to have a sense of 271 00:17:55,962 --> 00:17:58,922 Speaker 9: draw if you're going to be in the public eye. 272 00:17:59,282 --> 00:18:03,762 Speaker 3: The night flight shows us how this virtuous press cycle worked. 273 00:18:04,522 --> 00:18:08,402 Speaker 3: Women journalists got to come along. They got the byline 274 00:18:08,442 --> 00:18:11,442 Speaker 3: in the papers the next day, and of course Eleanor 275 00:18:11,602 --> 00:18:16,122 Speaker 3: got the headlines First Lady in night Flight, First Lady 276 00:18:16,162 --> 00:18:20,002 Speaker 3: goes on night air trip. First Lady of Land flies 277 00:18:20,042 --> 00:18:24,122 Speaker 3: with first Lady of the Air. We may take for 278 00:18:24,242 --> 00:18:27,482 Speaker 3: granted today that the first Lady is a public figure 279 00:18:27,562 --> 00:18:31,042 Speaker 3: with a platform and press coverage, but that wasn't really 280 00:18:31,082 --> 00:18:32,562 Speaker 3: the case before Eleanor. 281 00:18:33,602 --> 00:18:38,042 Speaker 9: Earlier first ladies didn't think it was too feminine to 282 00:18:38,202 --> 00:18:44,962 Speaker 9: court publicity. Certainly, Eleanor's predecessor, lou Henry Hoover, Allo, extremely 283 00:18:45,562 --> 00:18:50,522 Speaker 9: educated and accomplished woman, didn't want much press attention, even 284 00:18:50,602 --> 00:18:54,042 Speaker 9: to the point that when she had a Christmas party 285 00:18:54,402 --> 00:18:57,962 Speaker 9: at the White House for Girl Scouts, she wouldn't allow 286 00:18:58,042 --> 00:19:00,882 Speaker 9: the press in, if you can imagine such a thing. 287 00:19:01,522 --> 00:19:04,402 Speaker 9: So Eleanor came in, and she was quite willing to 288 00:19:04,482 --> 00:19:08,282 Speaker 9: focus attention on herself. You have a first Lady for 289 00:19:08,402 --> 00:19:11,162 Speaker 9: the first time is seeking to be in the news. 290 00:19:11,922 --> 00:19:14,882 Speaker 3: The night flight wasn't the last of her exploits to 291 00:19:14,922 --> 00:19:18,242 Speaker 3: captivate the press. There was the time she was driven 292 00:19:18,402 --> 00:19:21,962 Speaker 3: two miles into a coal mine showing her support for 293 00:19:22,002 --> 00:19:26,482 Speaker 3: the workers hit hard during the depression. The papers captured how, 294 00:19:26,602 --> 00:19:30,882 Speaker 3: wearing a quote borrowed gray overcoat and a miner's cap, 295 00:19:31,322 --> 00:19:35,322 Speaker 3: Eleanor emerged from the mine to a cheering crowd twenty 296 00:19:35,362 --> 00:19:41,842 Speaker 3: five hundred strong, and her month long journey to the 297 00:19:42,002 --> 00:19:46,282 Speaker 3: South Pacific during World War Two certainly didn't escape the 298 00:19:46,322 --> 00:19:51,162 Speaker 3: news cycle either. Eleanor's connection to the press ran deep. 299 00:19:51,682 --> 00:19:55,322 Speaker 3: In fact, Eleanor did so much press she actually thought 300 00:19:55,322 --> 00:19:57,802 Speaker 3: of herself as part of the press corps. 301 00:19:58,322 --> 00:20:01,282 Speaker 9: What people don't seem to realize about her is that 302 00:20:01,402 --> 00:20:05,882 Speaker 9: she actually considered herself a journalist on her income tax returns. 303 00:20:06,242 --> 00:20:09,082 Speaker 3: And in a way, hey, that makes sense because in 304 00:20:09,122 --> 00:20:12,802 Speaker 3: addition to providing quotes and posing for photo ops, she 305 00:20:12,882 --> 00:20:17,442 Speaker 3: started covering the adventures she took herself. During her time 306 00:20:17,482 --> 00:20:21,162 Speaker 3: in the White House, Eleanor made nearly the same number 307 00:20:21,202 --> 00:20:25,562 Speaker 3: of radio appearances as her husband, the President. She hosted 308 00:20:25,602 --> 00:20:29,162 Speaker 3: her own programs. She wrote a number of books and 309 00:20:29,402 --> 00:20:33,682 Speaker 3: hundreds of articles, including a daily column. For many years, 310 00:20:34,322 --> 00:20:37,602 Speaker 3: it was called My Day, and it was syndicated in 311 00:20:37,762 --> 00:20:43,682 Speaker 3: ninety newspapers. It had millions of readers, and Amelia Earhart 312 00:20:43,962 --> 00:20:47,482 Speaker 3: picked up a thing or two from Eleanor's success. 313 00:20:48,002 --> 00:20:51,602 Speaker 7: She quickly learns to do what Eleanor Roosevelt I think 314 00:20:51,642 --> 00:20:53,842 Speaker 7: had already learned to do, which is to use her 315 00:20:53,882 --> 00:20:58,562 Speaker 7: celebrity to promote the causes that she cares about. 316 00:20:58,922 --> 00:21:01,602 Speaker 3: Historian Susan Ware again, you. 317 00:21:01,642 --> 00:21:05,042 Speaker 7: Really have to keep the name out there if you're 318 00:21:05,042 --> 00:21:08,162 Speaker 7: going to maintain your celebrity. It is this kind of 319 00:21:08,282 --> 00:21:11,402 Speaker 7: nitty gritty of the lecture circuit and the grinding out 320 00:21:11,442 --> 00:21:16,642 Speaker 7: the articles and the appearing on newsreels and all these things. 321 00:21:17,482 --> 00:21:20,642 Speaker 3: Like Eleanor, Amelia did her own share of stunts to 322 00:21:20,722 --> 00:21:24,722 Speaker 3: garner attention and intrigue. It wasn't just her record breaking 323 00:21:24,842 --> 00:21:28,082 Speaker 3: flights either. There was the time she tried out deep 324 00:21:28,162 --> 00:21:32,642 Speaker 3: sea diving or demonstrated a new device to help pilots 325 00:21:32,642 --> 00:21:37,522 Speaker 3: with parachute jump training. To sustain her flying and her advocacy, 326 00:21:37,962 --> 00:21:41,522 Speaker 3: she had to sustain her fame. In her own words, 327 00:21:41,882 --> 00:21:45,042 Speaker 3: no pay, no fly, and no work no play. 328 00:21:46,122 --> 00:21:51,562 Speaker 7: Flying was expensive and planes just don't pay for themselves, 329 00:21:51,762 --> 00:21:56,642 Speaker 7: and so she really had to work at bringing in 330 00:21:56,682 --> 00:21:57,282 Speaker 7: an income. 331 00:21:57,602 --> 00:22:00,522 Speaker 3: The press coverage that those women and that night flight 332 00:22:00,602 --> 00:22:06,242 Speaker 3: got it had financial benefits. Exclusive articles after Amelia's flights 333 00:22:06,282 --> 00:22:09,882 Speaker 3: could pay big bucks. The New York Times paid twenty 334 00:22:10,002 --> 00:22:13,642 Speaker 3: thousand dollars in nineteen twenty eight for a story of 335 00:22:13,722 --> 00:22:18,322 Speaker 3: the friendship flight. The lecture circuits also paid, and all 336 00:22:18,362 --> 00:22:22,322 Speaker 3: the attention led to brand deals for Amelia with a 337 00:22:22,362 --> 00:22:27,722 Speaker 3: car company, Kodak film, and engine company. She also designed 338 00:22:27,762 --> 00:22:31,882 Speaker 3: and modeled her own line of clothing and luggage. Her 339 00:22:31,922 --> 00:22:36,202 Speaker 3: designs were advertised in the pages of Vogue and featured 340 00:22:36,242 --> 00:22:39,762 Speaker 3: in a Macy's window display decked out with a model 341 00:22:39,802 --> 00:22:43,722 Speaker 3: of her pilot's cabin. This was the precursor to the 342 00:22:43,802 --> 00:22:48,282 Speaker 3: celebrity brands we all know today, whether it's Kim Kardashian's 343 00:22:48,402 --> 00:22:51,282 Speaker 3: skims or fenty Beauty by Rihanna. 344 00:22:52,122 --> 00:22:55,002 Speaker 9: The flight was important in a commercial way to both 345 00:22:55,042 --> 00:22:59,082 Speaker 9: of these women. Eleanor wasn't raising money for a flight 346 00:22:59,122 --> 00:23:03,522 Speaker 9: around the world, but Eleanor wanted to use her time 347 00:23:03,562 --> 00:23:06,202 Speaker 9: in the White House to promote the interests of the 348 00:23:06,242 --> 00:23:10,002 Speaker 9: democratic and certainly to try to improve of a lot 349 00:23:10,042 --> 00:23:13,522 Speaker 9: of people who were in such dire straits during the depression. 350 00:23:13,842 --> 00:23:17,122 Speaker 3: Eleanor was proud to donate to charity with money that 351 00:23:17,202 --> 00:23:22,042 Speaker 3: she made herself through lecture circuits, for example, or her 352 00:23:22,042 --> 00:23:26,082 Speaker 3: own radio program, specifically from the show's sponsors. 353 00:23:26,562 --> 00:23:31,122 Speaker 9: Blander gave these sponsor broadcasts, and she got away with it, 354 00:23:31,202 --> 00:23:34,162 Speaker 9: shall we say, in the public eye, by saying that 355 00:23:34,242 --> 00:23:37,122 Speaker 9: she was giving the money that she made to charity. 356 00:23:37,442 --> 00:23:40,922 Speaker 3: Eleanor could make as much as three thousand dollars for 357 00:23:41,202 --> 00:23:45,322 Speaker 3: just one episode. When you account for inflation, that's more 358 00:23:45,362 --> 00:23:49,802 Speaker 3: than fifty thousand dollars today. The average American worker was 359 00:23:49,842 --> 00:23:52,082 Speaker 3: not earning that much in an entire year. 360 00:23:53,762 --> 00:23:56,282 Speaker 4: And now I believe we'll pause to listen to a 361 00:23:56,322 --> 00:23:57,842 Speaker 4: few words from mister Graua. 362 00:23:58,722 --> 00:24:02,242 Speaker 8: Thank you, Missus Roosevelt. Friends, the makers of Sweetheart Soap 363 00:24:02,322 --> 00:24:06,122 Speaker 8: feel highly privileged who have arranged these visits with Missus Roosevelt. Poyers. 364 00:24:07,042 --> 00:24:09,682 Speaker 8: Listen regularly and be sure to make friends with the 365 00:24:09,682 --> 00:24:13,762 Speaker 8: product that's responsible for all of this. Sweetheart Soap, pure 366 00:24:14,202 --> 00:24:18,202 Speaker 8: creamy white with a delicate fragrance all its own. Sweethet 367 00:24:18,282 --> 00:24:20,882 Speaker 8: Soap has become one of America's most popular soap. 368 00:24:21,562 --> 00:24:28,402 Speaker 3: Eleanor's broadcasts had all kinds of sponsors, cold creams, coffee, typewriters, mattresses, 369 00:24:28,962 --> 00:24:32,242 Speaker 3: way before all your favorite podcasts had ad breaks for 370 00:24:32,402 --> 00:24:37,242 Speaker 3: Casper Mattress. Critics, though, felt like she was commercializing her 371 00:24:37,362 --> 00:24:38,442 Speaker 3: role in the White House. 372 00:24:39,442 --> 00:24:42,882 Speaker 9: If you could imagine today, I think we would be 373 00:24:42,962 --> 00:24:48,322 Speaker 9: somewhat appalled if we had doctor Biden on a television program, 374 00:24:48,402 --> 00:24:51,722 Speaker 9: say that's sponsored by Toyota. People would say, well, you know, 375 00:24:51,802 --> 00:24:53,322 Speaker 9: this is totally inappropriate. 376 00:24:53,722 --> 00:24:57,962 Speaker 3: But Eleanor was playing the long game. Doing pr at 377 00:24:57,962 --> 00:25:03,522 Speaker 3: this level, achieving fame at this level requires some serious strategizing. 378 00:25:04,162 --> 00:25:07,642 Speaker 3: The right image for these women had to be crafted, 379 00:25:08,202 --> 00:25:11,282 Speaker 3: and in all honesty, their husbands were a huge help 380 00:25:11,322 --> 00:25:15,402 Speaker 3: with that. Eleanor leveraged her status as the President's wife, 381 00:25:15,962 --> 00:25:19,242 Speaker 3: and Amelia had GP Putnam. 382 00:25:19,842 --> 00:25:24,882 Speaker 7: I will say that having GP Putnam made an enormous 383 00:25:25,042 --> 00:25:27,482 Speaker 7: difference to Amelia Earhart's career. 384 00:25:27,962 --> 00:25:32,642 Speaker 3: GP was Amelia's manager turned husband. He was always behind 385 00:25:32,682 --> 00:25:37,442 Speaker 3: the scenes, pulling levers, forging partnerships, planning speaker events, and 386 00:25:37,602 --> 00:25:42,082 Speaker 3: enforcing deadlines. He took charge of keeping her in the spotlight, 387 00:25:42,682 --> 00:25:45,322 Speaker 3: and when she was he advised her to smile for 388 00:25:45,362 --> 00:25:48,882 Speaker 3: the cameras with closed lips though to hide the gaps 389 00:25:48,882 --> 00:25:52,042 Speaker 3: in her teeth. Oh, and no hats. He found her hat, 390 00:25:52,162 --> 00:25:54,042 Speaker 3: to be quote, a public menace. 391 00:25:55,922 --> 00:26:00,362 Speaker 7: She was in some ways just the perfect heroine. She 392 00:26:00,522 --> 00:26:06,242 Speaker 7: was incredibly modern looking and attractive, She had short, tussled hair. 393 00:26:07,002 --> 00:26:12,362 Speaker 7: She would fly wearing slacks and a plaid shirt and 394 00:26:12,402 --> 00:26:15,402 Speaker 7: with a silk scarf nodded around her neck. And so 395 00:26:15,442 --> 00:26:19,682 Speaker 7: when she landed, she would come out and she would smile, 396 00:26:19,802 --> 00:26:23,522 Speaker 7: her kind of shy smile, and she's just made for 397 00:26:23,562 --> 00:26:24,442 Speaker 7: the newsreels. 398 00:26:24,762 --> 00:26:29,042 Speaker 3: Amelia shot into the spotlight like no female pilot had before. 399 00:26:29,522 --> 00:26:33,682 Speaker 3: Her media presence in this arena was unrivaled. Her husband's 400 00:26:33,682 --> 00:26:37,002 Speaker 3: work was essential to that, but privilege was at play 401 00:26:37,042 --> 00:26:38,122 Speaker 3: here too. 402 00:26:38,522 --> 00:26:41,762 Speaker 7: One thing we really need to remember is that Amelia 403 00:26:41,762 --> 00:26:47,122 Speaker 7: Earhart was not the only female aviator in the time. 404 00:26:47,482 --> 00:26:51,002 Speaker 7: There were quite a lot, not huge numbers, not as 405 00:26:51,002 --> 00:26:56,802 Speaker 7: many as men, But there were other independent, spunky women pilots, 406 00:26:56,962 --> 00:26:58,682 Speaker 7: you know, the kind of women who just won't take 407 00:26:58,762 --> 00:27:02,762 Speaker 7: no for an answer, who were setting records and doing 408 00:27:02,842 --> 00:27:06,562 Speaker 7: daring flights and trying to start airlines and all kinds 409 00:27:06,562 --> 00:27:10,682 Speaker 7: of things. They didn't have a full time publicist the 410 00:27:10,762 --> 00:27:12,922 Speaker 7: way she did with her husband. 411 00:27:13,242 --> 00:27:15,962 Speaker 3: The fact that Amelia was a white woman played a 412 00:27:16,002 --> 00:27:20,002 Speaker 3: big part in her acclaim. There were talented pilots of color, 413 00:27:20,202 --> 00:27:23,642 Speaker 3: like Bessie Coleman, who passed away a couple years before 414 00:27:23,762 --> 00:27:29,242 Speaker 3: Amelia's Atlantic crossing. She's largely forgotten now, but she certainly 415 00:27:29,322 --> 00:27:33,122 Speaker 3: deserves to be remembered as an American icon, the first 416 00:27:33,282 --> 00:27:38,682 Speaker 3: black pilot man or woman to acquire an international pilot license. 417 00:27:39,442 --> 00:27:42,242 Speaker 3: Yet it was Amelia who the world was able to 418 00:27:42,282 --> 00:27:48,202 Speaker 3: accept as the all American girl. Eleanor also figured out 419 00:27:48,242 --> 00:27:51,562 Speaker 3: how to present herself in the public eye. She could 420 00:27:51,642 --> 00:27:55,362 Speaker 3: bend the rules, she could travel and speak out as 421 00:27:55,442 --> 00:27:59,082 Speaker 3: long as she painted herself just the right way as 422 00:27:59,162 --> 00:28:03,442 Speaker 3: the good first lady, the patriotic wife. 423 00:28:03,642 --> 00:28:08,402 Speaker 9: Because of Franklin's incapacity during polio, Paulis was willing to 424 00:28:08,482 --> 00:28:12,602 Speaker 9: accept the fact, Oh, this is a wife helping her husband, 425 00:28:13,082 --> 00:28:17,642 Speaker 9: so it's fine that she wants to take inspection trips 426 00:28:17,682 --> 00:28:20,442 Speaker 9: around the country and see what's going on and then 427 00:28:20,522 --> 00:28:24,682 Speaker 9: report to him. She was a beloved figure, but she 428 00:28:24,842 --> 00:28:27,922 Speaker 9: was always seen as a good woman who's helping her husband. 429 00:28:28,522 --> 00:28:31,762 Speaker 3: In the nineteen thirties, the world just wasn't ready for 430 00:28:31,882 --> 00:28:34,442 Speaker 3: women to abandon traditional values. 431 00:28:35,362 --> 00:28:39,002 Speaker 9: No, I do not think that Eleanor could have projected 432 00:28:39,082 --> 00:28:42,722 Speaker 9: herself as she did had she not couched what she 433 00:28:42,922 --> 00:28:46,482 Speaker 9: said very carefully in the vein of a traditional wife 434 00:28:46,482 --> 00:28:49,962 Speaker 9: and mother. So I think that was necessary politically for 435 00:28:50,042 --> 00:28:51,802 Speaker 9: her ideas to be accepted. 436 00:28:52,162 --> 00:28:56,562 Speaker 3: In addition to aviation, Eleanor and Amelia both wanted women 437 00:28:56,882 --> 00:28:59,882 Speaker 3: to be a part of the workforce and to be paid. 438 00:29:00,362 --> 00:29:03,562 Speaker 3: But just because they had big ideas didn't mean they 439 00:29:03,602 --> 00:29:06,202 Speaker 3: cast themselves as revolutionaries. 440 00:29:07,042 --> 00:29:10,682 Speaker 9: She didn't make raging political speeches, and certainly she didn't 441 00:29:10,682 --> 00:29:14,442 Speaker 9: come out with flaming statements that women should be themselves 442 00:29:14,482 --> 00:29:16,602 Speaker 9: and they should forget about the family and that sort 443 00:29:16,642 --> 00:29:18,042 Speaker 9: of thing. She didn't. 444 00:29:19,282 --> 00:29:22,962 Speaker 7: There had been the women's suffrage movement, which culminated in 445 00:29:23,042 --> 00:29:26,642 Speaker 7: nineteen twenty with the passage of the nineteenth Amendment, and 446 00:29:26,682 --> 00:29:30,802 Speaker 7: then in the nineteen sixties and seventies there's the resurgence 447 00:29:30,882 --> 00:29:35,882 Speaker 7: of what's called second wave feminism. In these intervening years, 448 00:29:36,482 --> 00:29:39,522 Speaker 7: there isn't a mass movement, but that doesn't mean that 449 00:29:39,642 --> 00:29:43,562 Speaker 7: feminism dies or goes away. You just have to look 450 00:29:43,642 --> 00:29:45,042 Speaker 7: for it in different places. 451 00:29:45,562 --> 00:29:49,682 Speaker 3: It's there, but it's not loud and proud. If Amelia 452 00:29:49,802 --> 00:29:53,562 Speaker 3: and Eleanor took that approach in the thirties, they wouldn't 453 00:29:53,562 --> 00:29:54,842 Speaker 3: have made the same impact. 454 00:29:55,322 --> 00:30:01,162 Speaker 7: I have no problem calling both Eleanor Roosevelt and Amelia 455 00:30:01,202 --> 00:30:07,962 Speaker 7: Earhart feminists. I often use a definition that Eleanor Roosevelt 456 00:30:08,002 --> 00:30:11,682 Speaker 7: put forth in nineteen thirty five that talks about women 457 00:30:11,842 --> 00:30:14,402 Speaker 7: having equal opportunities with men. 458 00:30:15,042 --> 00:30:19,282 Speaker 3: The Night Flight encapsulates this all perfectly. They put on 459 00:30:19,362 --> 00:30:23,202 Speaker 3: a show of femininity and glamor. They dressed up in 460 00:30:23,282 --> 00:30:27,082 Speaker 3: their gloves and their gowns. That was the backdrop for 461 00:30:27,242 --> 00:30:31,522 Speaker 3: their message about women's ability. It was political, but it 462 00:30:31,602 --> 00:30:35,402 Speaker 3: was still subtle. It was supposed to feel harmless, not 463 00:30:35,482 --> 00:30:39,482 Speaker 3: like they were crashing through the glass ceiling. Their ability 464 00:30:39,522 --> 00:30:43,122 Speaker 3: to walk that tightrope, to push the envelope but not 465 00:30:43,402 --> 00:30:46,282 Speaker 3: rock the boat. The only way to pull that off 466 00:30:46,482 --> 00:30:50,962 Speaker 3: was masterful pr and the night Flight well, it may 467 00:30:51,082 --> 00:31:10,442 Speaker 3: have created a model that celebrities are still using today. 468 00:31:11,042 --> 00:31:14,442 Speaker 11: Two girlfriends decide it would be fun to take a 469 00:31:14,562 --> 00:31:18,162 Speaker 11: road trip across America. They start out in the West 470 00:31:18,202 --> 00:31:22,242 Speaker 11: Coast and drive all the way across the country, making 471 00:31:22,322 --> 00:31:23,882 Speaker 11: pit stops along. 472 00:31:23,602 --> 00:31:28,042 Speaker 2: The way and really seeing what is not just America, 473 00:31:28,122 --> 00:31:29,082 Speaker 2: but Americana. 474 00:31:29,362 --> 00:31:33,402 Speaker 11: These drive by towns that most people wouldn't necessarily stop in, 475 00:31:34,082 --> 00:31:36,922 Speaker 11: and they take us on a journey with them that 476 00:31:37,202 --> 00:31:39,682 Speaker 11: is just unforgettable. 477 00:31:39,922 --> 00:31:42,362 Speaker 2: They crash a wedding. 478 00:31:43,162 --> 00:31:46,642 Speaker 11: They play bingo Bingo was all the rage, and they 479 00:31:46,642 --> 00:31:47,202 Speaker 11: play bingo. 480 00:31:47,882 --> 00:31:51,882 Speaker 2: They sleep in a teepeek. They stop in a hotel that. 481 00:31:51,922 --> 00:31:55,762 Speaker 11: Looks like almost a caricature of a teepeek. 482 00:31:56,962 --> 00:32:01,122 Speaker 3: That's Kelly Carter Jackson, a professor at Wellesley College, and 483 00:32:01,282 --> 00:32:05,842 Speaker 3: this is Leah Wright Ragure, a historian from Johns Hopkins. 484 00:32:06,362 --> 00:32:08,762 Speaker 12: They had to department store where they try on with 485 00:32:08,842 --> 00:32:12,522 Speaker 12: the help of like local shoppers. They try on beautiful 486 00:32:12,602 --> 00:32:16,362 Speaker 12: gowns and dresses. They end up buying several things. 487 00:32:16,762 --> 00:32:20,282 Speaker 3: This might sound like another story about Amelia and Eleanor, 488 00:32:20,442 --> 00:32:21,042 Speaker 3: but it's not. 489 00:32:22,122 --> 00:32:25,922 Speaker 12: Of course, we are talking about Oprah Winfrey and her 490 00:32:26,082 --> 00:32:30,242 Speaker 12: Bessie Gail Kings, two of the most famous black women 491 00:32:30,802 --> 00:32:31,362 Speaker 12: in America. 492 00:32:31,482 --> 00:32:33,122 Speaker 2: Let alone you know like the world. 493 00:32:34,722 --> 00:32:38,562 Speaker 3: Kelly and Leah are both academics and the co hosts 494 00:32:38,682 --> 00:32:42,522 Speaker 3: of You Get a Podcast, The Unauthorized Study of the 495 00:32:42,642 --> 00:32:43,562 Speaker 3: Queen of Talk. 496 00:32:44,842 --> 00:32:47,882 Speaker 11: As a kid, I was obsessed with Oprah. I watched 497 00:32:47,922 --> 00:32:51,122 Speaker 11: Oprah all the time. My family members used to tease 498 00:32:51,162 --> 00:32:52,882 Speaker 11: me because I watched the show so much. 499 00:32:53,602 --> 00:32:55,242 Speaker 12: Oprah Winfrey is ubiquitous. 500 00:32:55,722 --> 00:32:56,722 Speaker 2: As a child. 501 00:32:56,762 --> 00:33:00,562 Speaker 12: Growing up in the eighties and the nineties, Oprah Winfrey 502 00:33:00,722 --> 00:33:03,522 Speaker 12: was the culture she was everywhere, So it wasn't that 503 00:33:03,562 --> 00:33:05,482 Speaker 12: she was just a part of the culture. 504 00:33:05,762 --> 00:33:06,882 Speaker 2: She was actually defined. 505 00:33:07,642 --> 00:33:09,042 Speaker 12: It was can't miss TV. 506 00:33:09,882 --> 00:33:13,482 Speaker 3: So why are we talking about Oprah and Gail. Bear 507 00:33:13,562 --> 00:33:16,922 Speaker 3: with me for a minute here. This cross country road trip, 508 00:33:17,202 --> 00:33:20,242 Speaker 3: it actually has a lot in common with the night flight, 509 00:33:21,002 --> 00:33:25,122 Speaker 3: even though these things happened seventy years apart. The road 510 00:33:25,122 --> 00:33:27,962 Speaker 3: trip was in two thousand and six. It aired as 511 00:33:27,962 --> 00:33:30,042 Speaker 3: an episode of The Oprah Winfrey Show. 512 00:33:31,162 --> 00:33:34,922 Speaker 11: And along the way they deep in their relationship, they 513 00:33:35,082 --> 00:33:38,402 Speaker 11: find out more about themselves, they find out the things 514 00:33:38,442 --> 00:33:42,762 Speaker 11: that annoy themselves about each other. You get to see 515 00:33:42,762 --> 00:33:45,442 Speaker 11: the different personalities. You get to see how like Gail 516 00:33:45,522 --> 00:33:48,322 Speaker 11: loves to sing along to the music in Oprah whether 517 00:33:48,562 --> 00:33:52,122 Speaker 11: right along in silence, like she doesn't like listening to music. 518 00:33:52,482 --> 00:33:54,442 Speaker 12: So we're not watching I mean, we are watching for 519 00:33:54,522 --> 00:33:57,722 Speaker 12: the Shenanigans, but we're also watching for the beautiful friendship 520 00:33:57,762 --> 00:34:00,282 Speaker 12: between Gail and Oprah. 521 00:34:00,322 --> 00:34:03,882 Speaker 3: There's this element of friendship and joy and what seems 522 00:34:03,962 --> 00:34:07,642 Speaker 3: like spontaneity, even though it's a big play and trip 523 00:34:07,722 --> 00:34:11,322 Speaker 3: with lots of cameras. All of this makes it feel 524 00:34:11,362 --> 00:34:15,562 Speaker 3: like a modern version of Amelia and Eleanor and Like 525 00:34:15,602 --> 00:34:19,242 Speaker 3: the night Flight, the stunt had some deeper symbolism. 526 00:34:19,442 --> 00:34:21,722 Speaker 11: What's more American than being black and pulled over by 527 00:34:21,722 --> 00:34:23,082 Speaker 11: the police. 528 00:34:23,122 --> 00:34:25,922 Speaker 3: A key moment in the trip happened when Oprah and 529 00:34:26,042 --> 00:34:29,602 Speaker 3: Gail and their caravan of camera people and producers were 530 00:34:29,722 --> 00:34:33,642 Speaker 3: driving in Kentucky When one car got stopped by the police. 531 00:34:34,002 --> 00:34:37,442 Speaker 3: The whole group pulled over to wait, which was something 532 00:34:37,562 --> 00:34:39,202 Speaker 3: the officer wasn't expecting. 533 00:34:40,082 --> 00:34:43,842 Speaker 11: The highway patrolman is like, get off my highway, you know, 534 00:34:43,922 --> 00:34:47,002 Speaker 11: like he's like yelling at them and confused that he's 535 00:34:47,002 --> 00:34:47,962 Speaker 11: pulled over one car. 536 00:34:48,122 --> 00:34:49,642 Speaker 2: Now all these other cars are stopping. 537 00:34:50,482 --> 00:34:53,962 Speaker 6: Get all we're with the Oprah Show doing a shoot. 538 00:34:54,962 --> 00:34:58,602 Speaker 11: And when Oprah gets out the car and pulls that 539 00:34:58,682 --> 00:35:03,042 Speaker 11: sort of oprahcart like hello, I'm Oprah Romfree, he realizes like, 540 00:35:03,562 --> 00:35:04,322 Speaker 11: oh shit. 541 00:35:04,482 --> 00:35:05,442 Speaker 1: This is Oprah Winterring. 542 00:35:05,882 --> 00:35:06,922 Speaker 6: We're doing a TV show. 543 00:35:08,442 --> 00:35:13,522 Speaker 2: You like, I have not just pulled over anyone I've 544 00:35:13,562 --> 00:35:16,042 Speaker 2: got Oprah were free and thirty five cares. This is 545 00:35:16,082 --> 00:35:17,082 Speaker 2: not what happens every day. 546 00:35:17,162 --> 00:35:21,682 Speaker 3: Though at that point it becomes a big joke. Oprah 547 00:35:21,762 --> 00:35:25,482 Speaker 3: and Gail even start teasing the officer, I know. 548 00:35:25,482 --> 00:35:26,762 Speaker 2: You, what what are you saying? 549 00:35:27,722 --> 00:35:32,602 Speaker 12: My way and so we're looking at that moment and 550 00:35:32,642 --> 00:35:35,162 Speaker 12: being like, oh, she's trying to invert this idea of 551 00:35:35,202 --> 00:35:37,002 Speaker 12: like what it means to be black and be pulled 552 00:35:37,002 --> 00:35:39,802 Speaker 12: over in the middle of nowhere on a road like 553 00:35:39,842 --> 00:35:43,402 Speaker 12: this is this is a black person's worst nightmare, right 554 00:35:43,482 --> 00:35:46,762 Speaker 12: to be pulled over in the middle of rural southern 555 00:35:46,802 --> 00:35:50,962 Speaker 12: America and have a police officer essentially question like, what 556 00:35:51,042 --> 00:35:53,442 Speaker 12: are you doing? You don't know, like you could be 557 00:35:53,482 --> 00:35:56,482 Speaker 12: breathing wrong. And here Oprah and Gail being like, actually, 558 00:35:56,562 --> 00:36:00,642 Speaker 12: the power dynamic is inverted because I'm a black billionaire haha. 559 00:36:00,842 --> 00:36:02,882 Speaker 2: Jokes on you and the cameras rolling. 560 00:36:04,402 --> 00:36:07,722 Speaker 3: As much as they make the situation seem hair free, 561 00:36:07,922 --> 00:36:13,002 Speaker 3: the potential danger of their position doesn't go totally unremarked upon. 562 00:36:13,642 --> 00:36:16,802 Speaker 3: After Gail tells the officer they're doing a TV shoot, 563 00:36:17,202 --> 00:36:20,242 Speaker 3: the episode cuts to Gail in a studio interview. 564 00:36:21,242 --> 00:36:23,042 Speaker 6: Shoot was wrong word to use, Gail to. 565 00:36:25,802 --> 00:36:26,882 Speaker 4: Queue the laugh. 566 00:36:26,722 --> 00:36:30,762 Speaker 12: Track, but it also feels like a really safe way 567 00:36:30,842 --> 00:36:35,762 Speaker 12: to introduce white audiences to like black people's reality. Right. 568 00:36:35,842 --> 00:36:40,962 Speaker 12: It's not a George Floyd moment, which is so shocking 569 00:36:41,002 --> 00:36:45,962 Speaker 12: as to perhaps turn people off. Right to see a 570 00:36:46,162 --> 00:36:51,122 Speaker 12: man murdered by the police on camera, right in excruciating ways. 571 00:36:51,682 --> 00:36:53,882 Speaker 2: No, this is wow. 572 00:36:54,242 --> 00:36:57,122 Speaker 12: Even Oprah Winfrey gets pulled over, right. 573 00:36:57,602 --> 00:37:01,642 Speaker 2: But but it's contained, it's safe. 574 00:37:01,522 --> 00:37:05,002 Speaker 12: Right, So it feels like almost like it is a 575 00:37:05,082 --> 00:37:09,922 Speaker 12: safe space for white people to understand what it means 576 00:37:09,962 --> 00:37:14,482 Speaker 12: to be a black woman driving in mobility around the country. 577 00:37:16,962 --> 00:37:20,922 Speaker 3: Oprah has smashed through the glass ceiling and so many 578 00:37:20,962 --> 00:37:24,682 Speaker 3: other barriers. But Oprah didn't build her empire by being 579 00:37:24,762 --> 00:37:29,882 Speaker 3: an activist. She's a brilliant marketer, a brilliant entertainer. It's 580 00:37:29,962 --> 00:37:33,602 Speaker 3: the stunt the show they put on that makes this memorable. 581 00:37:34,082 --> 00:37:38,402 Speaker 3: Oprah and Gail are engaging with political and social issues 582 00:37:38,762 --> 00:37:43,162 Speaker 3: on a highly rated TV show, not from a political podium. 583 00:37:43,402 --> 00:37:47,442 Speaker 12: She is centering black women's joy on a platform, a 584 00:37:47,562 --> 00:37:49,962 Speaker 12: huge platform, one of the biggest in the United States, 585 00:37:50,042 --> 00:37:52,482 Speaker 12: and saying, look, black women being joyful. 586 00:37:52,842 --> 00:37:54,962 Speaker 2: Now what people tell us all the time? 587 00:37:55,242 --> 00:37:57,482 Speaker 12: What episode do you remember? I remember the Girls Trip. 588 00:37:58,002 --> 00:38:01,082 Speaker 12: It's not some huge active resistance. And I think part 589 00:38:01,122 --> 00:38:03,242 Speaker 12: of the attitude that Oprah and Gail have, which is 590 00:38:03,402 --> 00:38:05,642 Speaker 12: actually interesting in this day and age where it feels 591 00:38:05,642 --> 00:38:09,922 Speaker 12: like you have to do in your face pronouncements about race, Oprah. 592 00:38:09,802 --> 00:38:13,602 Speaker 2: Are like, like, we're black women. That's it. Like, there 593 00:38:13,682 --> 00:38:13,962 Speaker 2: you go. 594 00:38:14,562 --> 00:38:17,002 Speaker 12: But part of what we are doing is a project. 595 00:38:17,082 --> 00:38:21,682 Speaker 11: And in normalizing, yes, that's the board I was gonna say, normalizing. 596 00:38:21,322 --> 00:38:26,322 Speaker 12: Right, normalizing Black women joy and existing. 597 00:38:26,562 --> 00:38:30,602 Speaker 11: Their very existence, their very presence is radical. And so 598 00:38:30,762 --> 00:38:34,442 Speaker 11: it's the same thing with Eleanor and with Amelia. It's 599 00:38:34,482 --> 00:38:37,242 Speaker 11: like a woman flying a plane. You don't have to speak, 600 00:38:37,482 --> 00:38:38,522 Speaker 11: it speaks volumes. 601 00:38:40,482 --> 00:38:43,962 Speaker 3: The night flight was a PR stunt. Nobody would know 602 00:38:44,082 --> 00:38:46,802 Speaker 3: about the joy Ride if it wasn't for the women's 603 00:38:46,802 --> 00:38:51,122 Speaker 3: incredible relationship with the press. But it also wasn't fake 604 00:38:51,402 --> 00:38:56,322 Speaker 3: or disingenuous. These women genuinely supported the cause and they 605 00:38:56,482 --> 00:39:01,002 Speaker 3: genuinely seemed to enjoy themselves in the cockpit. Decades before 606 00:39:01,202 --> 00:39:06,242 Speaker 3: talk shows and reality TV and social media, Eleanor Roosevelt 607 00:39:06,282 --> 00:39:10,322 Speaker 3: and Amelia Airhart gave us a model for sending a message. 608 00:39:11,122 --> 00:39:15,602 Speaker 12: I love this those high powered baddies right, nineteen thirty baddies. 609 00:39:16,282 --> 00:39:18,482 Speaker 12: Nineteen thirties was not a hot time for women. 610 00:39:19,362 --> 00:39:21,522 Speaker 2: No, it really wasn't. 611 00:39:21,802 --> 00:39:24,162 Speaker 12: And just at the vote, and so for her and 612 00:39:24,242 --> 00:39:26,522 Speaker 12: Amelia Earhart to kind of come out and be like 613 00:39:26,602 --> 00:39:31,242 Speaker 12: America's most wanted, like like, let's go in a lot 614 00:39:31,282 --> 00:39:33,882 Speaker 12: of ways. They're like paving the way for a kind 615 00:39:33,882 --> 00:39:37,042 Speaker 12: of Gale Oprah type thing. And I don't think that's 616 00:39:37,082 --> 00:39:39,082 Speaker 12: an exaggeration. Like I could see people be like, oh, 617 00:39:39,082 --> 00:39:40,962 Speaker 12: that's a stretch. That's a stretch, but it's not right. 618 00:39:41,002 --> 00:39:43,322 Speaker 12: It's like the first Lady of the United States and 619 00:39:43,602 --> 00:39:46,602 Speaker 12: the most celebrated and famous woman of the era, right, 620 00:39:46,642 --> 00:39:50,642 Speaker 12: Amelia Earhart basically saying no, no, no, Like we're shunning 621 00:39:50,682 --> 00:39:53,522 Speaker 12: the conventions and the rules of the era and we're 622 00:39:53,562 --> 00:39:55,882 Speaker 12: going to be part of my French These bad bitches 623 00:39:55,922 --> 00:40:00,162 Speaker 12: who go around and like make decisions and influence politics 624 00:40:00,482 --> 00:40:03,322 Speaker 12: and have our own fashion line and we're raking in dough. 625 00:40:03,962 --> 00:40:07,162 Speaker 11: These are women that could really push boundaries, but they 626 00:40:07,162 --> 00:40:10,002 Speaker 11: didn't have to be Outlandis. 627 00:40:09,402 --> 00:40:09,722 Speaker 10: To do it. 628 00:40:09,842 --> 00:40:11,642 Speaker 12: She doesn't have to say anything else. 629 00:40:12,002 --> 00:40:14,322 Speaker 2: Yeah, same with Amelia flying. She doesn't have to do 630 00:40:14,362 --> 00:40:16,362 Speaker 2: anything else. All she has to do is fly the 631 00:40:16,362 --> 00:40:19,042 Speaker 2: plane and land it. And that's boom enough said. 632 00:40:21,682 --> 00:40:25,762 Speaker 5: Obviously, no surprise. These women were incredibly famous and influential. 633 00:40:25,882 --> 00:40:29,162 Speaker 5: Everybody knows that their posters are in every elementary school. 634 00:40:29,482 --> 00:40:32,562 Speaker 5: But their fame was very modern and Eleanor is basically 635 00:40:32,562 --> 00:40:38,002 Speaker 5: a podcast host. Amelia's doing brand deal Sweetheart soap. Probably Yes, 636 00:40:38,602 --> 00:40:40,922 Speaker 5: I really enjoyed getting that insider take. 637 00:40:41,242 --> 00:40:43,322 Speaker 6: I had never heard the story or heard of it before. 638 00:40:43,402 --> 00:40:45,362 Speaker 1: This is all new to me, and I absolutely loved 639 00:40:45,402 --> 00:40:47,722 Speaker 1: it because the whole image of Amelia Earhart and Eleanor 640 00:40:47,802 --> 00:40:50,922 Speaker 1: Roosevelt and glamorous evening gowns, white gloves is so against 641 00:40:51,002 --> 00:40:53,162 Speaker 1: what I think of them, and yet it's so perfectly 642 00:40:53,162 --> 00:40:53,602 Speaker 1: fit them. 643 00:40:53,642 --> 00:40:55,042 Speaker 6: I was like, wow, look at that. 644 00:40:55,362 --> 00:40:58,002 Speaker 1: The range of people, and also obviously them just taking 645 00:40:58,042 --> 00:40:59,842 Speaker 1: to the night sky is such an iconic image. 646 00:40:59,882 --> 00:41:00,642 Speaker 4: I felt the same way. 647 00:41:00,682 --> 00:41:04,042 Speaker 3: I had actually never heard this story before this episode. 648 00:41:04,442 --> 00:41:06,882 Speaker 3: It felt like a Marvel mashup that I just did 649 00:41:07,082 --> 00:41:07,722 Speaker 3: no happened? 650 00:41:08,122 --> 00:41:11,042 Speaker 4: Oh my god. Of course those women had met, yes exactly. 651 00:41:11,322 --> 00:41:13,002 Speaker 1: I kind of knew they were friends, but I didn't 652 00:41:13,002 --> 00:41:14,762 Speaker 1: know what good friends they were and how they helped 653 00:41:14,802 --> 00:41:16,402 Speaker 1: each other and bolstered each other. And I loved that 654 00:41:16,442 --> 00:41:20,602 Speaker 1: Eleanor has her own media persuasion campaign. That's like pr stunt, 655 00:41:20,682 --> 00:41:23,402 Speaker 1: which goes along with FDR's fireside chests. They're both like 656 00:41:23,562 --> 00:41:24,962 Speaker 1: shaping the nation through media. 657 00:41:25,082 --> 00:41:25,642 Speaker 6: I loved that. 658 00:41:25,882 --> 00:41:27,802 Speaker 4: Okay, who are we going to cast? We have two 659 00:41:27,842 --> 00:41:29,762 Speaker 4: strong female characters here. 660 00:41:29,802 --> 00:41:33,402 Speaker 1: Okay, so Eleanor Roosevelt. I went with a young Olivia Coleman. 661 00:41:33,602 --> 00:41:34,642 Speaker 1: I thought she could nail it. 662 00:41:34,842 --> 00:41:36,722 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you like that. 663 00:41:36,802 --> 00:41:40,042 Speaker 1: Right, And then Familia Earhart Julia Garner, the curly headed 664 00:41:40,042 --> 00:41:41,002 Speaker 1: blonde from Ozark. 665 00:41:41,122 --> 00:41:44,002 Speaker 6: Oh she's great if you were familiar with Ozark, yes, yeah, right, 666 00:41:44,042 --> 00:41:45,842 Speaker 6: and then I thought she'd be good. And if not her, 667 00:41:45,922 --> 00:41:48,642 Speaker 6: then a young Geena Davis. And then for G. P. 668 00:41:48,842 --> 00:41:51,402 Speaker 6: Putnam the husband. I thought I wanted a decent guy. 669 00:41:51,482 --> 00:41:54,002 Speaker 6: So I don't know why. John c Riley just to 670 00:41:54,042 --> 00:41:54,922 Speaker 6: me screams decent. 671 00:41:55,002 --> 00:41:56,602 Speaker 1: I just expect him, like, oh yeah, he looks like 672 00:41:56,642 --> 00:41:58,562 Speaker 1: you could have money and be like, I love my wife, So. 673 00:41:59,482 --> 00:42:00,402 Speaker 5: I would see that film. 674 00:42:00,482 --> 00:42:03,002 Speaker 4: That's great casting. I love Olivia Coleman. 675 00:42:03,082 --> 00:42:05,122 Speaker 3: I feel like, if anyone's listening, let's just get her 676 00:42:05,482 --> 00:42:07,762 Speaker 3: in any movie where she gets to first lady. 677 00:42:07,882 --> 00:42:10,082 Speaker 6: Yeah right. Also, I forgot FDR. 678 00:42:10,122 --> 00:42:12,282 Speaker 1: I don't know why, but I thought Sam Rockwell as 679 00:42:12,282 --> 00:42:14,602 Speaker 1: Horny FDR that would be really funny. 680 00:42:16,162 --> 00:42:16,802 Speaker 6: So there you go. 681 00:42:17,042 --> 00:42:18,602 Speaker 4: Who's your very special character? 682 00:42:19,042 --> 00:42:20,842 Speaker 6: Hmmm, Jason, you got one. 683 00:42:20,962 --> 00:42:24,242 Speaker 5: I think Eleanor Roosevelt plays nine different characters in this 684 00:42:24,362 --> 00:42:28,362 Speaker 5: but especially her as the podcaster. Getting three thousand dollars 685 00:42:28,402 --> 00:42:31,082 Speaker 5: an episode or the equivalent of about fifty thousand today. 686 00:42:31,442 --> 00:42:34,042 Speaker 5: That's the dream. I think we should hold that up 687 00:42:34,202 --> 00:42:36,242 Speaker 5: and try to return to that standard. 688 00:42:36,522 --> 00:42:38,002 Speaker 4: She's our podcast inspiration. 689 00:42:38,202 --> 00:42:40,922 Speaker 3: I'm also going to say, the terrible White House chef, 690 00:42:41,242 --> 00:42:43,322 Speaker 3: kudos to you for doing a bad job. 691 00:42:43,562 --> 00:42:47,242 Speaker 6: Oh yes, brilliant, great call. 692 00:42:47,882 --> 00:42:50,002 Speaker 1: I mean, I love her. She was my first hero, 693 00:42:50,162 --> 00:42:52,442 Speaker 1: so Amelia Earhart. I just got out of respect for her. 694 00:42:52,482 --> 00:42:54,762 Speaker 1: She's my very special character because I love her. 695 00:42:57,442 --> 00:43:00,962 Speaker 5: Very Special Episodes is made by some very special people. 696 00:43:01,762 --> 00:43:05,162 Speaker 5: The show is hosted by Danish Schwartz, Sarah Burnett, and 697 00:43:05,322 --> 00:43:10,922 Speaker 5: Jason English. Today's episode was written by Dylan Hoyer. Our 698 00:43:10,962 --> 00:43:15,682 Speaker 5: producer is Josh Fisher. Our story editor is Marisa Brown. 699 00:43:16,722 --> 00:43:21,322 Speaker 5: Editing and sound design by Chris Childs, Mixing and mastering 700 00:43:21,522 --> 00:43:27,002 Speaker 5: by Beheid Fraser. Original music by Elise McCoy, Research in 701 00:43:27,122 --> 00:43:31,922 Speaker 5: fact checking by Dylan Hoyer and Austin Thompson. Show logo 702 00:43:32,042 --> 00:43:37,402 Speaker 5: by Lucy Quintinia. Our executive producer is Jason English. If 703 00:43:37,442 --> 00:43:39,562 Speaker 5: you'd like to email the show, you can reach us 704 00:43:39,602 --> 00:43:44,402 Speaker 5: at Very Special Episodes at gmail dot com. Very Special 705 00:43:44,442 --> 00:43:47,442 Speaker 5: Episodes is a production of iHeart Podcasts.