WEBVTT - A Venezuelan Bitcoin Miner on Why He Had To Flee 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:06.400 Late last year, a couple of weeks before Christmas, a 0:00:06.440 --> 0:00:09.200 man in Venezuela was on his way to a barbecue 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:12.200 when he got a phone call from the cops. The 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:15.680 police said they had just raided his office. They demanded 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:19.319 he hand over fifteen thousand dollars or else they would 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:23.560 take his most valuable possession, his computers at mine bitcoin. 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:27.920 They blasted my door and found the machines and then 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:32.120 uh disconnected all of them and put them in vans 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:37.400 and then took them to their police officers. To protect 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:40.040 his identity, we're concealing the real name of the man 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:43.080 you just heard from for the purposes of today's show. 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:47.320 Will call him David. David's home country, Venezuela, has been 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:51.080 fighting one of the world's highest inflation rates. The local currency, 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:54.200 the Believer, is now worth so little it's been used 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:58.360 as confetti at soccer games. That's why some enterprising locals 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:02.960 like David started mining bitcoin. They mind bitcoin and converted 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:06.759 it to the most precious resource in Venezuela, US dollars. 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.000 Access to those U S dollars was what put a 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:13.399 bull side on David's back. The police received a tip 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:16.880 that David had mining equipment. That was a good indication 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:19.679 that he had the dollars that the officers and everyone 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:22.560 else in the country wanted. Even if you're innocent, you're 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:25.280 still gonna spend a month or two months in prison 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:29.800 while everything clears out. Instead of risking jail time, David 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:32.080 and his family through a few belongings in their suit 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:35.880 pleases and made a dash for the Colombian border. I 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:38.840 had cash money in my hand and and I just 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.679 passed on my passport to the to the immigration officer 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:59.400 in the in the border, and and hope for the best. Hi. 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:03.600 I'm brat Stone and I'm Camila Russo. And this week 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.520 on Decrypted, we'll see how Venezuela became an unlikely hub 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:11.880 for mining bitcoin. Around the world, bitcoin has been viewed 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:15.359 as a risky investment, but for some people in Venezuela 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:20.040 with a currency and free folk, bitcoin became a financial lifeline. 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:24.200 When the police came for David, Bitcoin mining in Venezuela 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:28.000 was unregulated. The police used this lack of clarity to 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:31.480 harass and threatened miners to make them hand over their money. 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:35.960 The Venezuelan government legalized between mining and January, but miners, 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:39.240 I've spoken to say they're still getting her asked stay 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:57.600 with us. I'm from a small city and in the 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:03.880 mid west of as well. David's hometown is vast, basic 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:07.240 crossroads in the heart of the country. It's pretty pretty 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:10.120 calm to grow up there because you can have a 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:14.400 smooth family life where you can go to school and 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.040 then go to go home for lunch. David says he 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.840 grew up wanting to study the law and become a businessman. 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:24.560 He ended up doing both. When David was still a teenager, 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:28.240 Hugo Chavez became president, but he was almost ousted in 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:31.680 two thousands and two hundreds of thousands of people protested. 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:37.520 It was at one of those protests that David, is 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:40.240 still a high school student, met his wife. It was 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:44.400 January two thousand and three, two thousand and three, when 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:49.920 the protests were being held in Plascas. We were protesting 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:54.880 in our city, like and we met because she was 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:56.800 with a friend of mine from school and I was 0:03:56.840 --> 0:04:00.280 with my cousin. After college, David and his wife lived 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:03.480 in Europe for a few years. In twelve, they came 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:07.760 back to Venezuela, believing the political situation was about to change. 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:11.720 Elections were coming and David thought the opposition candidate and 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:16.000 Brique Capriles, might win. He had many young fans who 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:26.400 rarely behind him with cheerful campaign songs Venezuela and I thought, 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:29.760 I my country was gonna get better and improve, and 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:33.080 we're gonna I quit my job to start my business 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:37.159 in Venezuela with my wife, and we did. But Hugo 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.359 Chaves one and then a year later he died, leaving 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:44.120 Venezuela with a big national deficit, a week Bolivard and 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:48.359 food shortages. Nicolas Maduro became the new leader, but David 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.479 and Isuel were already back in Venezuela trying their best 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:55.599 to run a radiology business, and political tensions were rising again. 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:59.080 And then afterwards it was all the downhill because the 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:03.240 protests were like block away from our business, or two 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:07.880 blocks away. President Maduro maintained the populist policies of Hugo Chavez, 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:11.560 but a decline in the price of oil, Venezuela's main export, 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:20.400 hit the country. Hard conditions got worse. Protests erupted again 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:25.240 in early leaving many dead. They were happening right outside 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:30.080 David's office. The tear gas entered to our our office 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.599 every day for like the three consecutive months, so it 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:37.080 was it was awful because people weren't working, and when 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:39.400 they were working, if you work, you work half a 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:44.600 day because half a day you protested. David felt politically 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:47.360 aligned with the protesters and would close the office from 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:51.080 major strikes, but it started to impact this business. We 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:55.120 as a business um supported the strike and we closed 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:57.960 most of the day, so we had to put money 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:01.240 from our pockets to pay for salaries during the strikes. 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:08.159 As David's business was faltering, he discovered another way to 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:22.680 make money that's coming up next. By late two thousand 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:26.400 fourteen and early two thousand fifteen, the economic situation in 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:32.480 Venezuela was becoming critical. Now to the crisis in Venezuela 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:36.960 which takes many forms economic, political, social, but perhaps nothing 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:40.200 is more harmful day to day than shortages of medicine 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:44.080 and food. Put simply, many Venezuelans are starving to death 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:46.960 and their government often can't or won't do anything to 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:53.640 help the value of the boulevard was in free fall, 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:56.359 and David was desperate for a way to protect what 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:59.640 remained of a savings. Many people were trying to bite 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:03.240 dollars on the black market at a very unfavorable exchange rate. 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:08.000 But then another option emerged, bitcoin mining. My younger brother 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:11.120 was the one who first bought a couple of machines 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:14.280 and like just out of curiosity, because a friend introduced 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:18.480 him to the to this world. At first, David was skeptical. 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.320 What I told my brother is I want to see 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:24.480 you sell some currency and get us dollars for it 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:28.040 before I risk a little dollars. I have to to 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:32.720 buy machines or buy currency. Cautiously, David started setting up 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:36.400 his own mining operation. Bitcoin is run by a network 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:40.720 of computers competing the solved complicated math problems which verify 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:44.920 transactions on the network. That's known as mining, and computers 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:48.480 that solve those problems get rewarded in bitcoin. It gave 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:50.720 David a way to pay for things that we're becoming 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.360 harder to afford. I bought like three or four just 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:58.200 to to pay for like I don't know, private insurance 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:03.080 abroad and things that you couldn't easily pay with with 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.360 the local currency. One of the largest costs and mining 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:09.480 is the huge amount of electricity it requires, but in 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:15.400 Venezuela power is heavily subsidized which makes cryptocurrency mining almost free. 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:18.240 David just had to be able to buy the computers. 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:22.280 People started buying these machines to pay for the luxuries 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:26.280 they couldn't afford anymore with their regular jobs. At first 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:29.120 it was a thing like it was an activity to 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:32.040 pay for for a luxury, and after that it became 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:35.679 a necessity because if you didn't mind, there was no 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.960 way to acquire dollars or any other currency to to 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.400 purchase the food or medicine that you couldn't find. Event 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:47.560 as well, for a while they set up work for David. 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:51.120 His mining operations slowly grew from the three computers he 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:54.000 started with. I wouldn't say we rushed into the business 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.240 like it was. We did it step by step and 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:02.319 by reinvesting whatever we were earning. Eventually he had as 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.920 many as twenty one computers mining bitcoin, and David could 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:09.599 sell his bitcoin through online exchanges and get US dollars. 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:16.160 It became his main source of income until last year. 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:20.440 There were no regulations in Venezuela around cryptocurrency mining. It 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:24.160 wasn't illegal, but it wasn't. It was just deregulated. So 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.800 we didn't want to get it so much exposure with 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:32.200 the economy in Venezuela, crushing. Bitcoin miners were becoming conspicuous 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:35.080 for the money they had access to, even if it's legal, 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:39.280 you're basically saying that you have a factory of currencies 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:42.080 wherever you have the machines, and you're you have a 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:46.040 machine that produces, produces a currency that that's easily traded 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:48.679 for US dollars, and you're doing that in a country 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:52.040 where the minimum wage is actually like like regular workers 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:55.880 are earning four or five dollars a month. In fact, 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.920 as of this taping, the minimum wage is now barely 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:01.280 over a dollar a month. Yeah, and if you have 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:03.880 a machine that produces a hundred and fifty or two hundred, 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.720 you're producing what forty workers are doing in one month. 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.720 David and his brother tried to keep their bitcoin mining quiet. 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:15.400 The little machines we had, we put them into many 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:19.640 offices we had rented or our own. But the police 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:23.880 and military were starting the target bitcoin miners, demanding payoffs 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:28.320 in bitcoin or dollars. Miners who refused to cooperate might 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:31.640 be charged with petty crimes or have their minds stolen. 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.440 In addition to David, I've spoken to three other miners 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:38.760 in Venezuela who say they went through something similar, who 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:41.880 always knew that in Venezuela you don't need to you 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:44.720 don't need to be guilty or be committing a crime 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:48.280 to go to prison, so you always had to take 0:10:48.320 --> 0:11:00.480 your precautions. Then last year the suppliers were Davide Ideology 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:04.480 Office started having trouble procurring U S dollars. That meant 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:08.280 they couldn't input materials from overseas. David says he was 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:11.640 barely able to continue running his business onto US and 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:16.760 seventeenth everything stopped completely. Like we we didn't read stock materials. 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:19.319 We haven'try stark materials for more than a year and 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:22.720 a half. You can say we held on for five 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:27.000 years until we decided it was no longer profitable to 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:36.600 keep it open with the hyperinflation that's currently there. As 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:40.199 of last year, President Nicolas Maduro was so strapped for 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:44.640 cash he stopped paying back international creditors and buying imports 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:49.560 to stock hospitals and supermarket shelves. In early December, Maludo 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:54.199 announced plans to issue the country's own cryptocurrency as a 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.280 way of raising funds. The news came during a boom 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:06.400 in bitcoin prices pet But despite the new seemingly crypto 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:09.680 friendly climate, I've spoken to miners who say the police 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:12.839 have continued to harass them. As soon as my Lutta 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:16.720 started talking all cryptocurrencies. A couple of weeks later, all 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:20.200 the cops in in town were hunting for the machines, 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:23.920 like patrolling at night, trying to listen for the noise. 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:27.240 And by the way, what David referring to here is 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:31.280 the humming of the computers as a mine. Cryptocurrencies. Miners 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:35.640 are also discovered because the high electricity consumption attracted attention 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:38.720 because they knew the machine produced money, and they knew 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.280 that taking away the machines from you would make you 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:46.280 pay them a ransom. Camilla. It sounds really frightening, but 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:48.920 I guess the police are just as desperate as everybody 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:52.239 else for money that can retain its value. Yes, definitely. 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:55.680 And then less than a month after President A. Lutta 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.640 went on TV to talk about the Petro at tenant 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:01.800 in David's office building, the same building where David had 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:04.320 his bitcoin mind had a run in with the police. 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:09.640 My neighbor he sold or he exported plastic chairs or 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:13.280 something to Panama and to Colombia. And he also I 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:17.360 think what I heard from police sources was that he 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.080 was he was storing like four tons of sugar, which 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.880 in Venezuela is also a crime, and he got a 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:29.440 rate and and they threatened to throw him in jail 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:39.720 for many years. Remember, Venezuela is dealing with the chronic 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:43.880 shortage of supplies, so the government established tight controls to 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:48.160 stop people from stockpiling essentials. Faced with the prospect of 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:51.760 going to jail, David says his neighbor snitched on him. 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:54.440 He ratted me out because he had heard the noise 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.040 of the machines at some point. So he told the 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:02.160 police that he that that he would deliver a bigger fish, 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:06.080 so if they were lenient on his case. They blasted 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:09.280 my door, a door that communicated both both of our places, 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.199 and found the machines and then uh disconnected all of 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:17.520 them and put them in vans and then took them 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:24.360 to their police officers. I wasn't there, was actually far 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:27.440 away from the office, but they they called me and 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:31.120 they told him me they wanted fifteen thou dollars to 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:34.440 not give it to the prosecutor's office. Keep in mind, 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:38.760 dollars is an enormous amount of money. In Venezuela, the 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:42.680 currency is almost worthless now. An ordinary person might live 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:45.680 off two d dollars from a month or two. They 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:49.120 also downloaded all of the pictures of my family that 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:51.480 they had on the that I had on the computer 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.160 that wasn't at the place. That night they called me 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:57.520 to say that they had pictures of my family and 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:00.520 that they knew where I went to school, what I did, 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.560 and where I had all my businesses, so um that 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.960 if I didn't deliver the fifteen in cash I they 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:14.320 would go making raids in all of the places. The 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.440 very same night, as a police rate, David decided to 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:21.280 escape with his family. I think I was home, and 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:26.480 I packed my bags and headed for the Colombian border 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:28.880 because I had two small suns, so I just didn't 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:33.000 want to take any chances. We just managed to put 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:36.280 like the medicines for the kids and and whatever like 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.200 was urgent for them. And I don't know the clothes 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:43.880 we had on at firsthand, but we left pretty much 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:46.960 everything and we just took whatever I fit in, like 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:50.960 three three bags. Under cover of night, David and his 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:54.440 family crossed into Colombia. From there, they flew to the 0:15:54.600 --> 0:16:20.160 US and made their way to Europe. President Maduro legalized 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.760 bitcoin mining in late January, just weeks after David and 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:27.760 his family fled the country. Miners kind of register through 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:32.080 an official website to get authorization, but miners I've spoken 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:35.320 to are worry about going through that process. They don't 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:39.480 trust the authorities. The rules aren't clear, but they always 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:41.880 hang on to something. They say that you haven't paid 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.280 for your import duties, and if you paid for your 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:50.960 import duties, then they say you're exceeding the electricity assignment 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:53.840 that you were given. And if and if it's not that, 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:58.040 they will say, uh, you are money laundering because you 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:00.480 you cannot prove where you're using the money, or where 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:02.760 the money came, or where the money is going. And 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:07.240 by the way, we tried contacting the Superintendency of Cryptocurrencies 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:10.760 in Venezuela to ask about these reports of bitcoin miners 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:14.760 getting harassed, but we never heard back. Venezuela issued the 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:18.800 Petro in February, and President Maduro claims it's raised five 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:23.040 billion dollars from countries including China and Russia. That would 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:27.120 make it the largest initial coin offering ever. The president 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.520 said the Petro, which is meant to be backed by 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:33.880 oil reserves, must become legal tender for all transactions involving 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:39.119 government institutions, but few, if any exchanges outside of Venezuela 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.919 have listed the Petro. US President Donald Trump banned all 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:45.760 transactions with the Petro, so it's hard to say what 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.440 demand has been like. Demand for bitcoin in Venezuela, on 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:53.560 the other hand, continues to soar daily transactions climbed to 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:57.920 a record one million dollars recently, although David thinks it 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:01.280 won't be viable to mind cryptocurrency in Venezuela for much longer. 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:05.880 The power supply in Venezuela has become increasingly unstable. Even 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:10.359 the people who work at maintenance at the corporatelect that is, 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:16.119 the national UH Electricity company. They're all migrating also, And 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:22.679 when when when the technicians, everyone, everyone capable leaves UH, 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:26.600 the electrical grid will decline. So, Cammilla, do you have 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:29.800 any sympathy for the government's position here because they are 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:34.080 subsidizing electricity use and here are the bitcoin miners taking 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.480 advantage of that. I think it's easy to have sympathy 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:41.560 here for everyone involved, since in the end, everyone is 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:46.440 being affected by this enormous economic crisis that Venezuela is 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:50.440 going through. But still, I think the real victims here 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.680 are bitcoin miners. I mean they were able to find 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:57.600 a way to get by in a country that's basically 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:00.720 it's become really hard to live in um and that's 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.760 because of the government's own actions. So yeah, I think 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:07.240 the victims here are the bitcoin miners, right, and here 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:09.399 they are now getting harassed by authorities. What are the 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:14.359 worst stories you've heard in terms of miners encounters with police. Well, 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.720 besides David's story, which is pretty dramatic, you know, he 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:21.959 had to just leave the country, leave everything he owned behind. 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:24.680 I talked to one miner who had to spend a 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.119 couple of nights in jail, got beat up by the cops. 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:33.120 I know another miner who was threatened, was physically threatened 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:37.360 by by the police, and just you know, other stories 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:41.480 of people living in permanent paranoia, you know, feeling that 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:45.360 they're being followed, not knowing where whereon when the police 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:49.320 and the military might show up. The situation in Venezuela 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:51.879 is is clearly unique. But do you think there are 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:55.040 any lessons for other members of the bitcoin community or 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:58.240 other miners around the world and what's happened here. Yes, 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.040 I think this is an extreme case, but it does 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:04.960 speak to the lack of regulation that there is in 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:10.720 the broader cryptocurrency and bitcoin mining community around the world. 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:16.680 I mean, there isn't a clear regulation everywhere. We've seen 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:20.920 in other countries that have become large hubs for cryptocurrency mining, 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:25.480 such in China, where you know, officials and authorities you know, 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:29.040 decided to crack down on bitcoin miners. Miners had to 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:34.680 move elsewhere, So you get this kind of unstable environment 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:39.600 and regulatory framework everywhere in the world. Right Yeah, miners 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:43.119 are drawing on this public resource electricity, and as bitcoin 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:45.879 mining requires more of it, it does make sense that 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:55.000 governments around the world will have to react. Calla tell 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:57.080 us what David is up to right now and how 0:20:57.119 --> 0:21:00.480 it's doing today. David is in Europe building new life. 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:03.359 He's still able to practice law and hopes to get 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:06.840 a job with a legal firm. Until then, he's acting 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:10.000 as a translator for Venezuelans applying for visas to leave 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:13.399 the country. His wife is registering as a dentist so 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:16.720 she can start practicing, and his two kids are adjusting 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:20.880 to their new life. David hopes that one day he'll 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:23.760 be able to return to Venezuela, but he thinks it 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:29.680 will take years for the economy to recover. And I 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:32.639 hear there's one thing that hasn't changed. David's still in 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:36.520 the business of cryptocurrency mining. I do, I have. I 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:40.560 have some machines in Canada. It's not as profitable as 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:44.880 in Venezuela because we pay for electricity pretty much. It's 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:47.960 cheaper than than most of places, but it's it's still 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:53.080 a big chunk of the of the mining operation. The 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:56.040 plans were always there. We just rushed them when everything 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:58.920 happened in Venezuela, like we were going to do it. 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:03.119 Uh just not just for the for the legal or 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:09.360 not legal environment, but because like the electricity is way stabler. Wait, 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:12.640 it's way more stable and um and you you don't 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:14.800 have to be worried that if if the machines are 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:41.440 going to still be there when you wake up. And 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:45.040 that's it for this week's Decrypted. Thanks for listening. Let 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:47.479 us know what you thought of today's show. You can 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:51.120 email us at Decrypted at Bloomberg dot net or reach 0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:54.280 out to me on Twitter. I'm at Kami Uso and 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:57.639 I'm at brad Stone. If you haven't already, subscribe to 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:00.320 our show wherever you get your podcast and gave us 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:02.800 a rating and a review. They really help us reach 0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:06.520 new listeners. This episode was produced by Pia ga Pari, 0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:11.600 Magnus Henrickson and Listening. Francesca Leivi is the head of 0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:14.080 Bloomberg Podcast. We'll see you next week.