WEBVTT - FTC Chair Andrew Ferguson Talks Enforcement and Big Tech 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:09.040 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. The FDC is not 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:11.040 taking its foot off the gas when it comes to 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:11.840 enforcement action. 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:12.200 Now. 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:15.000 That's according to its chairman, Andrew Ferguson. We sat down 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:17.840 with them earlier today to discuss the FDC's mission under 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:21.320 the second Trump administration and how he will approach dealing 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:22.000 with big tech. 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:22.760 Just take a listen. 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:26.239 I think if you are a big tech company, you 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:30.320 should be getting your lawyers to give you great advice 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:34.320 on complying with our competition and consumer protection laws. Look, 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:37.480 I don't have a particular acts to grind within the industry, 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:40.360 but I do think it's very important that the FTC 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:44.120 devote its resources to the markets that Americans most frequently 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:47.280 engage with. It's not just big tech, although that's definitely 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:50.720 one of them. It's also healthcare, and it's protecting American 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:54.160 as laborers. But no matter who you are, I think 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:58.000 it's important to proceed like the FTC is a vigilant 0:00:58.040 --> 0:00:58.960 cop on the beat. 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:00.440 We're surveying them markets. 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:03.440 We're looking for competition problems, we're looking for violation of 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:05.720 the consumer protection laws, and if we. 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:07.280 Think they're there, we're going to go to court. 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:10.839 But most importantly, if we don't think that there are problems, 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:13.600 it's really important for the FTC to get out of 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:16.640 the way. Again, one of the most consistent complaints that 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:19.399 I've heard about the previous administration was a lack of 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.840 certainty and a tendency to want to do a lot 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:24.360 of regulating the FTC. 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:27.000 We're not regulators. We're cops on the beat. 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:31.720 We police for competition problems and consumer protection problems, but we're. 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:33.119 Not trying to regulate the economy. 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:37.760 We want to create economic conditions that allow companies to innovate, 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:40.119 to grow, and to help lift the whole country out 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.800 of this debt crisis and bring about the golden age 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:46.240 that President Trump has promised the American people talk. 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:48.360 About striking that balance because many would say, if I 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:52.000 look at Europe, they regulate too much. There's too much enforcement. 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:55.040 But in many ways they're being a strict coup on 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:58.360 the beat. Some would say, so from your perspective, are 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.160 you seeing overregulation and you Europe And is there a 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:04.720 worry about stifling innovation in the United States by the 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:07.040 amount of focus you have on big tech right now? 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:11.640 Well, I do think that Europe has a real regulatory problem. 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:15.040 It has an innovation problem, and we definitely don't want 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:18.919 to create conditions here in the United States that suppress innovation. 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:21.840 But I think it's important to bear in mind monopoly 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:26.480 suppresses innovation. Monopoly makes it very difficult for little companies 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:27.239 with the next. 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:28.600 Great idea to sort of rise. 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:31.240 And I think it's very important if we want to 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:35.280 sort of preserve the American innovating spirit, that we create 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:39.040 conditions in our economy that allow little tech who have 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.160 the next great ideas, the next life changing ideas for 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:46.160 all Americans to thrive. President Trump has been pretty emphatic 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:49.680 on the importance of making sure that our economics system 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:53.000 allows little tech to bring its ideas to market. And 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:56.880 that's what antitrust really does, is it prevents monopoly, and 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:00.799 monopoly stifles innovation. So if the antitrust cops are vigilant 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:05.120 and are making sure that they're protecting us from competition problems, 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.480 it allows the innovation that has made America and our 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:11.200 economy sort of the driving engine of the whole world. 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:14.800 What deals do you think can get done? Is there 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:17.160 any prescription you can give us to this MNA will 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:19.040 look good if you are a big tech ying a 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:19.600 little tech. 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:22.560 I think that the deals that can get done are 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:25.760 the deals that are lawful. And I think the most 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:28.000 important thing I want to take away from this is 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.359 I see it as my job to scrutinize deals consistently 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:34.800 with the timeline Congress created. 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:35.640 And our antitrust laws. 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:38.360 And if we think that they are illegal and we 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:40.280 think that we can win in court, we're going to 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:42.760 go to court. But if we don't think that they 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:45.120 are illegal or we don't think we can win in court, 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:47.760 the FTC is going to get out of the way again. 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:49.080 I've heard this complain a. 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.800 Lot from the business community that in the previous administration, 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:54.600 a deal would enter the FTC and it would sort 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:58.280 of disappear, and sometimes it could disappear for months while 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:02.920 you know, novel ideas were loaded, different theories, and sometimes 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:05.720 it sort of seemed like the FTC was hoping that 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:08.440 deals would die on the vine while they waited for 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:09.600 regulatory clearance. 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:11.160 I want nothing to do with that. 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:13.520 If a deal is illegal and I think we can 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:15.240 win in court, I'm going to go to court. But 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:17.039 if it's not, we're going to get out of the 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:19.159 way and we're going to let deals go forward. 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:22.480 M and A is part of how the economy grows. 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:26.400 It's an important part of fostering a system that allows 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:30.200 for innovation and dynamism. But we have to make sure 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:32.680 that we don't create monopoly, and I see that as 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:36.080 my job. If we think there's a monopoly problem, then 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:38.080 the government's going to intervene. But if not, we've got 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:40.040 to get out of the way as quickly as possible 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:41.240 and let the economy grow. 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:43.719 Does the AI space look like it's thriving or do 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:45.520 you worry about monopolistic behavior there? 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.279 Yeah, I think it is extremely important that we protect 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:52.039 competition in the AI space, But I think it is 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:55.360 equally important that the government not race to regulate AI. 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:00.200 Vice President Vance's speech in Europe on AI, I think 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:03.360 is about the perfect way to thread this needle. We've 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.039 got to ensure that there's competition. We got to ensure 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:11.279 there's competition because competition promotes promotes innovation. But we can't 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:14.479 have the government come in with a heavy regulatory hand 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:18.880 and stifle innovation. Again, we don't want monopoly stifling innovation. 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:22.640 We don't want big government stifling innovation. And admittedly that's 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:24.520 not an easy needle to thread, but That's how I 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:28.599 think about it, is protect competition, but don't over regulate AI, 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:31.760 because that's exactly how we're going to kill the innovated 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:32.720 prospects of AI. 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:35.640 You started all of this by talking about the very 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.880 close look you're going to take at every enforcement action 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:40.680 that's out there at the moment, whether you pursue it 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.480 or not. But just that assessment takes a lot of labor. 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:47.440 You've also said you've got the resources. I know everyone's 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:49.520 been to asking you about what this lawyer said in 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.760 court yet last week regarding the Amazon Prime deal, and 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.680 ultimately you've been saying he was wrong, and they came 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.400 out and said that, no, we do have enough resources, 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:01.080 even though he said there's an extremely severe reasils shortfall 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.320 in terms of money and personnel at the FTC. Have 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:06.320 you got the right amount to people and how are 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:09.400 you living up to Doge's necessities to slim. 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:12.840 Down Well, I didn't say that the lawyer was wrong. 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:14.559 The lawyer said the lawyer was wrong. 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:17.440 He filed something almost immediately after his statements to the 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:20.559 court explaining we don't have the resource constraints that he thought. 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:23.719 We don't have resource constraints. I've said from day one. 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:26.200 We've got the resources to litigate these cases. 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.760 That remains true. But I also want to be clear. 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:32.800 I think that the President's efficiency agenda is one of 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.880 the most important things going in government right now. Government 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.800 should not be any larger than necessary to deliver the 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:42.640 services and protections that the American people deserve and that 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:43.320 the FTC. 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:44.880 Look, we're a lean operation. 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:47.440 Our budget is less than half a billion dollars, we've 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:50.400 only got around thirteen hundred employees, and we deliver a 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:53.280 lot of value for the American people. But we have 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:57.760 got the resources we need to deliver on our competition mandate, 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.640 our consumer protection mandate. But we're all always looking to 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:02.040 be as efficient as possible.