1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by square Space. Start 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: building your website today at squarespace dot com. Enter offer 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: code History at check out to get ten percent off Squarespace. 4 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: Build it Beautiful. Welcome to stuff you missed in History 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 1: Class from how works dot com. Hello, and welcome to 6 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. Uh. 7 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: Possibly the weirdest thing that I've ever learned on this podcast, 8 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: and that includes having done a podcast about people who 9 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 1: turned into soap after they died. In early modern London, 10 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: when apprentices had a holiday, the thing to do was 11 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 1: to go knock over some brothels. Like that's not not 12 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: a thing right now. And I don't mean knock over 13 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: like uh like slang for robbing them. I mean knock 14 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: over like literally pull them down. And today we're going 15 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: to talk about one such riot, and it took place 16 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: during Easter Week of sixteen sixty eight, although this particular 17 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: riot was a lot bigger and a lot more complicated 18 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: than just the normal apprentices having a day off and 19 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: tearing down some brothels, which was the thing that they 20 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: like to do. So heads up, today's podcast is not 21 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: explicit and we are not going to talk about what 22 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: goes on in a body house. But yes, parents and teachers, 23 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: body house means what you think it means. So today's 24 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 1: show is maybe not for the youngest of the listeners. So, 25 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: as Tracy just suggested, lots of people rioted at London's 26 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: brothels in sixteen sixty eight, not just apprentices, but apprentices 27 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: are sited again and again is making up the bulk 28 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: of the crowd in this story. So we're going to 29 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: take a moment to shed some light on who these 30 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: young people, nearly all of them young men were. For 31 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: a few hundred years in England, apprenticeship was a seven 32 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: year indenture that combined both work and instruction, and originally 33 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: people had been apprenticed to the master of a guild. 34 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: Came quite a bit of prestige and was kind of 35 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: a systematized organization for apprenticeship. But by the seventeenth century, 36 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: when we're talking about today, London's guild system was really 37 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: in decline, and that meant that the apprentice system was 38 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: showing some strain as well. What had been a really 39 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: prestigious appointment directly with the master of a guild was 40 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: instead moving closer and closer to just flat out unpaid 41 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: servitude that did not come with many advantages, and this 42 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,839 Speaker 1: is probably why by the mid sixteen hundreds a lot 43 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: of people were quitting were quitting their apprenticeships after two 44 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: or three years, even though they hadn't really finished. You 45 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: can look at charts of the average of how long 46 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 1: people stayed in their posts, and there's a precipitous decline 47 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 1: between year three and four. If people had the opportunity 48 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: to get out of their apprenticeship, they did. Although people 49 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: came from all over England to apprentice in London, most 50 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: of London's apprentices were from the surrounding area. The farther 51 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: away you got from London, the fewer people went to 52 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: London to be apprenticed, and most of the apprentices were 53 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 1: from relatively affluent families, at least ones who either had 54 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: or could borrow enough money to make an initial payment 55 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: to a master in exchange for taking their son on 56 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 1: as an apprentice. Once that money was paid and the 57 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: apprenticeship actually began, though apprentices usually did not make any 58 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: money of their own because they were being paid in 59 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 1: instruction and experience, not in wages, sort of an extreme 60 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: version of the unpaid internship. They also had very few freedoms. 61 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: They needed their master's permission to marry, socialized, to go 62 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: to the theater, to go to a tavern, basically anything fun. 63 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: In sixteen sixty, the average age of an apprentice was 64 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: seventeen or eighteen, So with all that in mind, it 65 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: may be a little less surprising than A popular pastime 66 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: among London's seventeenth century apprentices was the brothel riot on holidays, 67 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: particularly Shrove to Tuesday, which is the last Tuesday before lent. 68 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: Apprentices frequently wrecked London's brothels. Between sixteen o six and 69 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: sixteen forty one, there were twenty four Shrove Tuesday brothel 70 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: riots that we know about. That's twenty four full scale 71 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: riots in thirty five years. And in case the name 72 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 1: Shrove Tuesday doesn't ring a bell, folks might know it 73 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 1: better as Fat Tuesday or Marti gras Is. It's observed 74 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: or celebrated in a lot of different ways all over 75 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: the world, but Strove Tuesday is what people were mostly 76 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: calling it in in England at this time. During a 77 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: brothel riot, rioters would use tools like staves and bars 78 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: to literally pull down buildings and this naturally caused a 79 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: lot of property damage, and it displaced anybody who had 80 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: been living or working inside the damaged or destroyed structures. 81 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: And regardless of what your personal feelings are about brothels, 82 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 1: a lot of times these are people who did not 83 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: have any other options and for supporting themselves, so they 84 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: would be out of work in homeless after the riot. 85 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,559 Speaker 1: And in spite of their popularity in terms of having 86 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: a pretty consistent customer base, brothels were not popular from 87 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 1: a religious or social standpoint. Plenty of people visited brothels, 88 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: but plenty of people thought brothels were a sinful scourge 89 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: on London. Sometimes these worked out to be the exact 90 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: same people. Because brothels, in spite of their popularity, were 91 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: viewed as cd and immoral, the apprentices who tore them 92 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: down didn't usually get a lot of harsh punishment. They 93 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: would see a small fine and a short imprisonment. If anything, 94 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 1: the general consensus was that apprentices were doing a good 95 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: thing by destroying the city's brothels. So when it came 96 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: to this Strove Tuesday writing tradition, English political writer James 97 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: Harrington called it and quote ancient administration of justice at Shrovetide. 98 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: The sixty eight Ryan, on the other hand, was exceptional. 99 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: It was much much bigger, and instead of happening at 100 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: shrove Tuesday before Lent, it happened on Easter Monday after 101 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: Lent was over, and it lasted for three days. The 102 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: property damage is much greater, and the perpetrators faced much 103 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: much harsher punishments, even harsher than might be expected by 104 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: the increase in the size of the riot. And we're 105 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: going to talk about the sixty eight riot with more 106 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: specificity after we paused for a brief word from one 107 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: of our fantastic sponsors. On Easter Monday sixty eight, which 108 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: fell on March twenty three of that year, rioters armed 109 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: with simple weapons like pole axes, staves and iron bars 110 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: started pulling down the Brothels and Poplar in London's East End. 111 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 1: And yes, fans of Call the mid The Midwife, that's 112 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: the same Poplar where that show is set. According to 113 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: historical accounts, these rioters were apprentices. They probably included other 114 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: people too, though Poplar was home to lots of sailors, 115 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: and many of them were currently at home without a 116 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 1: lot to occupy their time, having been recently released from 117 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: service after the end of the Second Anglo Dutch War, 118 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: which went on from sixteen sixty five to sixteen sixty seven. 119 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: The first brothel to be struck belonged to Demeri's Page, 120 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: who was known as quote the great body of the seamen, 121 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: by which we mean men who work on the sea 122 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: or sailors, not the other possible interpretation. Regardless, these rioters 123 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: organized themselves into regiments. Each one had its own captain 124 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: and its its own colors. Green was particularly popular. One 125 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: of those captains was named Peter Messenger, which is why 126 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: sometimes these riots are referred to as the Messenger Riots. 127 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: On Tuesday, similarly, armed rioters spread through London, targeting the 128 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: districts where the city's highest concentrations of body houses were located. 129 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: At least five hundred people were involved in this second 130 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: day of rioting and pulling down buildings. This is when 131 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: the Crown got involved. To try to maintain order. A 132 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: letter to the Lord Mayor and Lieutenancy of the city 133 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: was sent in the name of King Charles the Second, 134 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: ordering the watch to be doubled and for two companies 135 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: of militia to be mustered to suppress the riot. Famed 136 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: London diarists Samuel Peeps wrote about it in his diary 137 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: for the day of March at Whitehall. He said, there 138 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: was quote great talk of the tumult on the other 139 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: end of the town, about more fields among the apprentices 140 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: taking the liberty of these holy days to pull down 141 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: body houses, and Lord to see the apprehensions which this 142 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: did give to all people at court. That presently order 143 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: was given for all the soldiers, horse and foot to 144 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: be in arms, and forthwith alarms were beat by drum 145 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: and trumpet through Westminster, and all to their colors and 146 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: to horse, as if the French were coming into town. 147 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 1: I remember reading a lot of Peep's diary, and like 148 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: a literature class, I feel like they left out all 149 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: the funny parts. I do too, because I did the same, 150 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: And it wasn't until much later in life where I 151 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: was like, there's good stuff in there that's really entertaining. 152 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: This bit, in particular, made me laugh every the whole 153 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 1: time I was tiping it in there. Tuesday's riots led 154 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: to arrests, and some of the rioters laid siege to 155 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: Finsbury Jail, where they believed their compatriots were being held. 156 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: They did not actually find any other rioters in the 157 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: jail though, but for unrelated persons did manage to escape 158 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: in all the chaos, The rioters were more successful in 159 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: their goals at the new prison in Clerkenwell, which did 160 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: have some of the arrested rioters being held there and 161 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: they were broken out. Peep's also went out with his 162 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,719 Speaker 1: friends to see the riots in action on Tuesday, but 163 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,319 Speaker 1: they mostly found lots and lots of soldiers and people 164 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: who were vexed that the soldiers were going after the apprentices. 165 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: He repeats a couple of times in his Tuesday diary 166 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: entry overhearing people say quote it was only for pulling 167 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: down the body houses. He also notes that this whole 168 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 1: event apparently perplexed King Charles the Second. If the body 169 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: houses were such a scourge on London so much so 170 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: that people supported pulling them down own, then again from 171 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: the Peep's diary, the question quote why why do they 172 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: go to them then has a side note Uh, I 173 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: mean we established earlier in the podcast that this Strove 174 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: Tuesday brothel riot was a kind of a tradition, So 175 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: why would King Charles the sec gonna be so perplexed? 176 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: A lot of those riots had happened either before he 177 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: was born or while he was in exile in France 178 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: after the beheading of his father, Charles the First, so 179 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: it's possible that he this was the first time he 180 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:30,959 Speaker 1: had really experienced firsthand or heard in more detail about 181 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: this idea of the London body House riot. I like 182 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: that he um can't see and grasp the two faced 183 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: nature of humanity in many cas I'm like, oh, Chuck, 184 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: come on, you have a conversation with Charles the Second 185 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: about the duality mankind. Uh. Then on Wednesday, a very 186 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: large group of rioters the exact numbers are unclear, but 187 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: it was probably in the thousands continue to attack bruthels 188 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: around more fields. The rioters started threatening to pull the 189 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: palace at Whitehall down and chanted things like quote, we've 190 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: been the servants, now will be the masters. And another 191 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: rallying cry was reformation and reducements. All of this rioting 192 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: continued to vex the crown and the court at Whitehall. 193 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: Peeps rode about Wednesday's riots and his diary as well, 194 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: and here's what he wrote. Quote the Duke of York 195 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: and all with him this morning were full of talk 196 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: of the prentices who are not yet put down, though 197 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: the guards and militia of the town have been in 198 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: arms all night and the night before, and the prentices 199 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: have made fools of them, sometimes by running from them 200 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: and flinging stones at them. Some blood hath been spilt, 201 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: but a great many houses pulled down, and among others, 202 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: the Duke of York was mighty mary at that of 203 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: Demaris Pages, the great Baud of the Seamen, and the 204 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: Duke of York complained merrily that he hath lost two 205 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: tenants by their houses being old down, who paid him 206 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: for their wine licenses fifteen pounds of a year. So 207 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: just to recap the Duke of York is upset that 208 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:13,359 Speaker 1: his tenants, the Bauds who pay him for wine licenses, 209 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: have been displaced by this writing, but not really concerned 210 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: about them, just his income. Uh uh. It was on 211 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 1: the inconvenience and loss of income to himself. Yeah. It 212 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: was on Wednesday that the militia, guards and even the 213 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: King's lifeguard dispersed the rioters and arrested many of the 214 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: apparent ringleaders. Happening concurrently with the last two days of 215 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: this riot were the publications of a couple of pieces 216 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: of satirical writing. We don't actually know who wrote them, 217 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: or whether they were the work of the rioters or not. 218 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 1: We don't really have a sense of whether the people 219 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: writing these satirical things. We're working with the writers are 220 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: opposed to them, or exactly what, in terms of the 221 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 1: writers themselves, uh was going on. We can't accurately say 222 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: whether these particular writings reflected the views of the rioters, 223 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: but they definitely were reflecting the views of some people 224 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: alive at the time who were involved in all of this, 225 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: So they shed some light on sort of what people 226 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: were thinking out in London. The first, which was presented 227 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: in the form of a petition, was known as the 228 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: Poor Horse Petition. It was purportedly drafted by the displaced 229 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: bods whose brothels had been pulled down, and it came 230 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: out on March which was the Wednesday of the riot. 231 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 1: It lampooned both of the women who worked in the 232 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: body houses and Lady Castlemaine, or more properly Barbara Villiers, 233 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: Duchess of Cleveland, who was the notorious and married mistress 234 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: of Charles the Second. This faux petition was highly critical 235 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: of both the king and his mistress, but it also 236 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: contained a plea to Lady Castlemaine that she would try 237 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: to protect all these displaced women from the body houses. 238 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: After all, goes the logic of this writing, you are 239 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: one of us, Lady Castlemaine. The two satirical writings that 240 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: followed were both in the form of a letter from 241 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: Lady Castlemaine back to the displaced bods. They're identical except 242 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: for the first paragraph, and they go on to lampoon 243 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: both Lady Castlemaine and the Anglican Church. There's a lot 244 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: of criticism where woven into both the petition and the response. 245 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: They criticized Charles the Second for keeping the mistress, They 246 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: criticized Lady Castlemaine for being Catholic, They criticize the Catholic 247 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: Church for earning an income from taxes on brothels, and 248 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: they criticized the Archbishop of Canterbury for purportedly keeping a 249 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: mistress of his own. And it's these same themes of 250 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: religion and hypocrisy that may help to explain why this 251 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: particular riot got so very big and why the response 252 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: to it was so much bigger. And we're going to 253 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: talk about all that after we pause for a brief 254 00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: word from one of our fantastic sponsors. While London's previous 255 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: Strove Tuesday brothel riots had been punished with which was 256 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: basically a slap on the wrist, the sixteen sixty eight 257 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: riots ended with a great many people being brought to trial. 258 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: It's unclear exactly how many people were prosecuted for participating 259 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: in the riot. Only seventy seven of those who wound 260 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: up in court were actually identified by name, either in 261 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: the records or historians having put all the pieces together 262 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: since then, but very little is known even about them. 263 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: Fifteen ultimately were indicted for high treason. De Veress Page 264 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: turned state's witness during the trial, with the court being 265 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: very careful to avoid mentioning precisely what her job was 266 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: so that she would appear credible in the account she 267 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: gave of destruction of her property. And many of the 268 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: other women who had worked in the destroyed body houses, 269 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: on the other hand, wound up being prosecuted in the 270 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,479 Speaker 1: aftermath of the riot, in a punishment that was acknowledged 271 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: by the High Court and other people surrounding the case 272 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: as just incongruously harsh. Four of the men who were 273 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: convicted of high treason were hanged, drawn and quartered. This 274 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: was by far the most extreme punishment allowed under the 275 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: most severe interpretation of the law. It was far far 276 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: greater than how body house riots had typically been handled 277 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: in England. There are lots of possible explanations for exactly 278 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: why the crackdown on this specific riot was so extreme. 279 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: One described in the nine paper on in the Historical 280 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: Journal is by Dr Tim Harris, then at Emmanuel College, 281 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: Cambridge and now at Brown and his interpretation basically is 282 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: that the riot itself was more about dissatisfaction with the 283 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: restoration than it really was about the brothels, and that 284 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: the rioters were so harshly treated because of that political 285 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: and religious undertone. So an extraordinarily brief recap of the Restoration. 286 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: When Charles the Second's father was executed in sixteen forty nine, 287 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: Oliver Cromwell came to power, at which point England became 288 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 1: a republic. Charles the Second fled to the continent, and 289 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: Cromwell remained in power until his death in sixteen fifty eight. 290 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: Then in sixteen sixty Charles the Second ascended to the throne, 291 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: at which point the monarchy was restored. That's the restoration. 292 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: There are entire books about the restoration, and there was 293 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: a whole lot more that went on behind the scenes 294 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 1: and what we just said, So that is an extremely 295 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 1: quick summary for those of you who don't remember or 296 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: never learned that. In a lot of historical accounts, the 297 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: general description of the restoration was that London was really 298 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 1: really in favor of Charles the Second's return. There had 299 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: been demonstrations against the army and in favor of Charles 300 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: as the monarch in the years before the restoration actually 301 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: took place. Some of that agitation was as much about 302 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: religion as it was about the monarch. Some of the 303 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: people who were pressing for Charles the second's return to 304 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: England we're hoping that he would allow a greater degree 305 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: of freedom of religion. The religions that diverged in some 306 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 1: way from Anglican teachings, like Presbyterians, Quakers, Baptists, Methodists, and Unitarians, 307 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: among others, we're all branded as dissenting or non con 308 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: armist religions. Many of London's apprentices were adherence to one 309 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: of these non conforming denominations instead. In sixteen sixty, Charles 310 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: the Second, still in exile, issued the Declaration of Breda, 311 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: which was one of the last steps before he was 312 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 1: restored to the throne. He wrote this statement quote, and 313 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: because the passion and uncharitable nous of the times have 314 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: produced several opinions in religion by which men are engaged 315 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: in parties and animosities against each other, which, when they 316 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: shall hereafter unite in a freedom of conversation, will be 317 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: composed or better understood. We do declare a liberty to 318 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: tender consciences, and that no man shall be disquieted or 319 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: called in question for differences of opinion in matters of 320 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: religion which do not disturb the peace of the Kingdom, 321 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: And that we shall be ready to consent to such 322 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 1: an act of Parliament as upon mature deliberation shall be 323 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: offered to us, for the full granting that indulgence. In 324 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: other words, people would have free him of religion, provided 325 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: that their opinions did not quote, disturbed the peace of 326 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 1: the kingdom. And among those opinions apparently disturbing the peace 327 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: of the kingdom were various nonconformists. Quakers and Baptists in particular, 328 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 1: frequently wound up in court on charges of quote. Attendance 329 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: at a nonconformist Conventsicle Harris also cites this as the 330 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: reason why this huge riot took place after Easter instead 331 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: of on Shrove Tuesday, as had been so common in 332 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 1: prior years. Even though the Declaration of Breda hadn't really 333 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:35,719 Speaker 1: allowed the nonconformists the practice of their religion uh freely, 334 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: at least there had been a period of relative laxity 335 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: in terms of the enforcement of religious conformity. The Great 336 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: Plague of London in sixteen sixty five and the Great 337 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: Fire of London in sixteen sixty six had both given 338 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,199 Speaker 1: Parliament plenty of other things to worry about, and some 339 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 1: of the laws governing religion had lapsed. But in sixteen 340 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: sixty seven. In sixteen sixty eight, bills that would have 341 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 1: allowed Presbyterians the religious freedom start and circulating in Parliament. 342 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: The House of Commons was really deeply opposed to these, though, 343 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 1: and the proclamation on the matter that Charles the Second 344 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 1: ultimately signed on March tense six sixty eight, during Lent, 345 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: less than two weeks before the riot began, was instead 346 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: about enforcing obedience to the existing laws, not about allowing 347 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: greater religious freedom. This also circles back around to those 348 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: satirical petitions and letters that we talked about before the break. 349 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 1: One of their themes England was willing to tolerate brothels 350 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: but not religious nonconformity, which seems awfully hypocritical. Some of 351 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: the chance and rallying cries that they used during the riot, 352 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 1: like the ones that were about reformation, also have a 353 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: lot more religious tone to them than being about wanting 354 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: to strike down the sinfulness of a brothel. Running parallel 355 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 1: to this crackdown on religious nonconformity was also a crackdown 356 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,360 Speaker 1: on theaters in London, and a running theme in this 357 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: increasing criticism of theater was that theaters were no better 358 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: than brothels, and there was a lot of just hateful 359 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 1: rhetoric that was used in all of this. So this 360 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: stoked dislike and disdain for both the brothels and the theaters. 361 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: And as we said at the top of the show, 362 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: London was full of sailors that were recently released from service, 363 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: as well as overworked and mostly pennelous apprentices whose system 364 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 1: of apprenticeship was quickly disintegrating. So there's some degree of 365 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: supposition and drawing of conclusions, and all of this uh 366 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: some degree of interpretation of what people's motives might have been. Men, 367 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: there's no smoking gun. None of the rioters left a 368 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 1: journal saying I'm really upset about my religious freedoms, and 369 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: so how about in the guise of a brothel riot, 370 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: I make that demonstration. Like, there's nothing documenting any kind 371 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: of thought presses like that, And there are also no 372 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: court documents. It's explicitly saying that the rioters are being 373 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 1: persecuted because of religious nonconformity, although it does seem like 374 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 1: there was some fear that people who were dissenting in 375 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: some way, we're also going to work with Cromwell's existing 376 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: supporters who were still around to try to overthrow the monarchy. So, 377 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: like a lot of events in history, this one was 378 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: definitely a confluence of a ton of different factors and 379 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: influences without one clear, single explanation that just explains the 380 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: motives of everyone involved at the same time. Oh, history, 381 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: You're never simple. Yeah, I wish I could remember where. 382 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: I wish I could remember where I stumbled across just 383 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: the words, uh, the brothel ride of sixteen sixty eight, 384 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: Like I was doing work on something completely unrelated last week, 385 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 1: and then the that's that series of words was on 386 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: my screen somewhere, and I went, well, okay, we gotta 387 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: talk about that. And then I fortunately was able to 388 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: find enough information to talk about that. And then when 389 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: I tried to reset retrace my steps to figure out 390 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: where I had origin ly seen reference d it, I 391 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: could not find it. So I don't remember, but that's 392 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: the brothel riot. Do you also have listener mail for us? 393 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: I do. I have to. I'm gonna sort of excerpt 394 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,719 Speaker 1: two pieces of listener mail because we're getting farther and 395 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: farther away from our Unearthed in episodes, but we still 396 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: have several interesting insights that people have written to us 397 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: about it. So the first one is from Katie, and 398 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 1: Katie says, I just finished listening to the Unearthed episodes 399 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: and was sad that you didn't mention the news that 400 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: came out over the last year about the sal Jose 401 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 1: slabor that wrecked off the coast of South Africa. It 402 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: wasn't a unique ship in its time, but it is 403 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: a rather unique find as shipwrecks go, and that they 404 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: were able to confirm it was indeed a slaver because 405 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: of the artifacts located at the site. Matching them with 406 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: archival sources to identify exactly which ship it was. What 407 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: is really wonderful about this wreck discovery is the international 408 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: collaboration between experts in the US and several African countries. 409 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: They have found a They have a wonderful website that 410 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: will tell you way more than I ever could about 411 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: the project, the timeline, and what they found and what 412 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,239 Speaker 1: is happening next. I happen to know all about what 413 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: is happening next. Several artifacts will be on loan to 414 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 1: the new Smithsonian National Museum of African American History and Culture, 415 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: slated to open in September of this year. Announced it 416 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: made a few months ago to great fanfare. The objects 417 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 1: will be featured in a section on slavery to Freedom 418 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 1: exhibit about the Middle Passage which is separate, which is 419 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: in a separated room and has meant as a place 420 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: where visitors can go in remembrance of those who experience 421 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: this traumatic event. Uh. And then she goes on with 422 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: some detail that I am not going to get into 423 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: because privacy. However, I wanted to read this for two reasons. Um. One. 424 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: The website that she links to is the Slave rex Project, 425 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: which is fascinating. It is basically a whole project to 426 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: document um wreckage of slips of ships that were used 427 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: in the slave trade. And I heard about it for 428 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: the first time on Slate's podcast The History of American Slavery, 429 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 1: which is extremely good if folks are interested in learning 430 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: more about that um and it just I had heard 431 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: about it in the context of that podcast, and then 432 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: for some reason it never made it into the list 433 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 1: of things to talk about in Unearthed, and so thank 434 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 1: you so much, Katie, and I will put a link 435 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: to that website in the show notes for this episode. 436 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: The other one is from Anne, and Ann said, I 437 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: just finished listening to Unearthed and Part two. My ears 438 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: perked up when you mentioned repatriation during the listener mail segment. 439 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: I'm responsible for NAGRA Native American Grave Protection and Repatriation 440 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: Act compliance. And then I'm going to skip where because 441 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:42,719 Speaker 1: privacy she works with tribal representatives to repatriate Native American 442 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,400 Speaker 1: human remains and other cultural items. So I'm gonna get 443 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 1: back to the letter. The history of NAGRA is very interesting, 444 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 1: the attitudes and practices that led to museums and institutions 445 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: across the country and globe quote owning human remains of 446 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: curiosities or specimens, the Indian rights movements that lead to 447 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: Nagara another legislation, and shifting attitudes regarding cultural appropriation. When 448 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: Nagro was first passed, there was panic that museum vaults 449 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: would be emptied. That hasn't happened, and instead, meaningful and 450 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: mutually beneficial relationships have developed between museums and tribes that 451 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: have led to improved care of collections and other collaborations. 452 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: There's still lots of problems, and a few have been 453 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: in the news lately. Some of the examples she sides 454 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: are the kennewick Man slash, the Ancient One, the former 455 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: MPs superintendent who's still human remains from f D mounds, 456 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: and the fight over the remains of Jim Thorpe. That 457 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: can be a very frustrating process to go through, but 458 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: the work can be very satisfying. I've invited, I've been 459 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: invited to attend three reburials following repatriations, and I was 460 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: very honored to be a part of returning those native 461 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: ancestors to the earth. Um So I wanted to read 462 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: that part of Ann's letter to talk a little bit 463 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: more about repatriations. We also got another letter that was 464 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: about repatriations and about how often UH, the way that 465 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 1: human remains were preserved for display in museums in the 466 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: past involved treating them with chemicals that were toxic. So 467 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: there's a whole ongoing UH attempts to figure out how 468 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: you can return remains to a triber culture that they 469 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: came from to be reburied, when reburying them would actually 470 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 1: be an environmental hazard, which is a whole other thing 471 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: I had never actually thought about. So thank you both 472 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: for sending us these letters, and I will have links 473 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: to interesting stuff and the show notes for this episode 474 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: for people to look at later. If you would like 475 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 1: to write to us, We're at History Podcasts at how 476 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. 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