WEBVTT - Nebula Builds Streaming Platform with A24 Vibes 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:11.800 Book of a strictly business varieties weekly podcasts featuring conversations 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:15.200 about the business of media and entertainment. I'm TV business 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:19.800 writer Jennifer Mows. Nebula, which launched in twenty nineteen, describes 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:23.800 itself as a creator focused, creator built, creator first premium 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:27.159 streaming service akin to a Netflix or Hulu, but with 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:31.240 the athos of Patreon. The four year old indie streaming service, 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:34.800 which is backed by creator owned management company Standard and 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.440 a minority stake held by Curiosity Stream, costs five dollars 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:40.760 a month or fifty dollars a year to subscribe to. 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:44.960 It currently tolls six hundred and fifty thousand subscribers and 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:49.199 past one hundred thousand daily active users in October. Nebula 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:52.360 is home to the popular amazing race style online competition 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:55.960 series Jetlag The Game, which is half a million subscribers 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:58.280 on YouTube, as well as the Theater in the Round, 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:02.639 Shakespearean trans Coming Out Story of the Prince, and Night 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:06.120 of the Coconut, the debut film from Patrick Wilms. Unlike 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:10.000 other streamers, Nebula sees YouTube as a partner, not a competitor, 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:13.320 with episodes of Nebula series usually seeing a week long 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:17.160 exclusive window on Nebula before creators post them to YouTube 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:21.679 and use them to intern promote Nebula. In August, Nebula 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:25.560 named jet Lagstar Sam Denby its first chief content officer, 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:29.600 and is currently promoting its fall lineup of originals. We'll 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:39.640 be back with Dave after this break here to talk 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:41.880 about the growth of the indie platform and plans to 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:44.760 expand on its slate of original series on today's Strictly 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:49.440 Business podcast is Nebula CEO Dave Whiscus. I'd like to 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:52.600 start with, just for our audience members who might not 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:56.760 be familiar with Nebula, what is it in your own roof? 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:00.360 There should be an easier answer to this question. Makes 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:04.240 it complicated is that nothing like this has really been 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:08.160 achieved before. And I don't necessarily mean that in a 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.160 grand standing sort of way. It's just that it always 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:13.360 ends up being like a tech company who tries to 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:17.920 do a thing with creators, or an entertainment media company 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:22.840 who tries to do user generated content stuff like Quibi 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:26.519 or something. It's never the creators starting their own thing 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:30.280 and then like really landing it. And in our case, 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:32.360 it's a group of creators who got together because we 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:38.000 saw that very simply on a creator career path. Step 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:43.440 one is YouTube or whatever, and step say ten is Netflix. 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:46.840 The problem is where are steps two through nine? If 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:49.040 we want that to exist, we want to build that bridge. 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:52.440 We have to build it. And so the purpose of Nebula, 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:55.120 the thing that we're building, the thing that we have built, 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:59.679 it is intended to be a way for the creators 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:04.600 to to sort of traverse the the vast space between 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:09.640 user generating content and more traditionally accepted forms of media 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:15.120 and entertainment. And it's it's almost a fraught answer to 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:18.560 say to focus on, like what the creators get out 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:20.919 of this, But what we've learned is that so much 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:23.320 of the relationship, so much of what makes this this 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.400 kind of thing powerful, is the relationship between the audience 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:29.519 and the creator. That's where we win. It's that sort 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:34.400 of parasocial dynamic. So for the audience at at the 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:38.120 base level, earliest days, it's about getting access to things early, 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:40.840 it's about getting access to behind the scenes content. Not 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:44.480 this similar from the value proposition of a Patreon or 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:47.720 something like that. As we look out into the future, 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:51.160 we've always been building up our originals, building up our 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:55.040 stable of you know, content that is made here and 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:56.720 in the case of like a jet lag might end 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:58.600 up also on YouTube as a way to pull people in, 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.280 but things that have our logo on it. The idea 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:04.240 is a little bit less Patreon, a little bit more 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:10.040 a twenty four which can be a brand definition, here's 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:14.200 what creators are capable of. And then step three in that, 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:19.320 I guess, is Nebula being more of a Netflix style 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:23.640 destination home for really great things that are made by 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:26.600 people who might not have had the opportunity or the 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:30.760 means to do those projects within the traditional Hollywood system 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:32.599 or traditional media system. 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:38.280 What is again asking you to define here? Standard which 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:42.159 is a company that is behind Nebula and existed preceded 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:43.680 Nebula's launch. 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:48.560 Very simply a talent management company. We work with a 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.200 bunch of creators. We book sponsors on their shows and 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:54.800 help them develop their businesses. And along the way we 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.719 realize that there are some gaps in the industry, like 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.200 around licensing and things like that. And we had been working, 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:03.320 we've been chatting with YouTube back when they were still 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:05.920 doing originals. They had asked us for some pitches for 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:09.640 original shows. We sent them over and they kind of 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:11.320 never got back to us, so we decided, know what, 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:13.520 We're going to start our own serving video platform. So 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:18.839 standard is there to help creators build and guide and 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:22.880 run their business operations, and Nebulas is kind of a 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:23.720 consequence of that. 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:30.520 When we're exactly if you remember where and when where 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:35.520 Nebula came from and what was part of the we 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:38.120 can actually make this work when something like a Vessel 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:39.080 did not work. 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:44.080 Yeah, I think Vessel was like as a technology driven 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:48.840 technology solution made by technology people. There's business, there's technology, 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:51.600 there's maybe some entertainment media in there. I don't want 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:55.200 to comment too hard on them. But for us, it 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:59.919 came organically. We had been approached by the group that 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.520 was building what became Peacock in the end, wanting to 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.560 bring like user generated content stuff onto a new platform 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:09.920 they were building. They wanted to talk licensing, but how 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:14.760 they approached the licensing deals it sort of didn't make 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:17.200 much sense because it would be wildly different from creator 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:19.680 to creator, and we kind of wanted to take the 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.760 collective bargaining power, the leverage that we had as as 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:26.559 a group and kind of get everybody a more consistent deal. 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:30.440 At the same time, we were being approached by Vimeo, 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.880 the lovely people at Vimeo who they were saying. They 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.040 picked one creator and they said, this person should have 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.320 their own streaming service. We can build an over the 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:44.280 top solution empower that streaming service. And that guy makes 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:46.360 a video every three months. What kind of streaming service 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:49.400 would that be? You're paying what five dollars a month 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:53.599 for a content catalog of sixteen videos? Come on like 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:55.440 that doesn't And they said, do you have any other 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:57.560 creators who are more frequent, who for whom that would 0:06:57.640 --> 0:06:59.359 make sense? And said, well, no, the only way they 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:00.960 would really make any times as if it were all 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:04.560 of the creators, And oh, oh, that's an idea. What 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:08.160 if we did that? And looking at the over the 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:11.560 top streaming solutions at the time, how cheap it had gotten, 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:15.640 and how doing something like that could provide a content 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:19.440 licensing engine. Potentially there were multiple problems that could be 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:22.679 solved at once, the licensing thing and you know, building 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:26.680 out some sort of test bed of a new business 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.200 venture for creators. And I took the idea to it. 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:31.120 This would have been i want to say, November of 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:35.840 twenty eighteen. October November of twenty eighteen, I took to 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.200 the creators and with this long email like, here's kind 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:39.920 of what I'm thinking, here's my vision for this, and 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.400 I expected it would be a six month climb to 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:45.840 convince everybody like, let's get it. Let's get em pretty 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:48.040 on board. I knew that I could, because it was 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:52.880 just it was inexpensive enough that there wasn't a ton 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:55.360 of risk in it. We had to come up with 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:59.560 enough value proposition to the creators. So I figured out, well, 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:02.560 give me six months and I'll eventually get everybody there. 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:05.960 I sent out the email and instantly every single creator 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:08.520 was like, we have to do this. Let's go getting 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:09.480 going doing that. 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:12.400 I know you will. Started with I think it's one 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:16.040 hundred thousand dollars to get Nebilla actually ready for a launch? 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:18.240 Where did that from? 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:21.200 Because I know you didn't have venture capital. 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.360 The extent that that can be true, it is true 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:29.920 because the calculus there is how much were we paying 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:32.400 the engineer who was working on it for the time 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:34.480 that they are the engineers who were working on it 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:37.640 over the time that they spent working on it. It 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.959 wasn't like we wrote a hundred thousand dollars check. It's 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:46.920 more like we as a business standard. We have a 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:51.560 whole what you can call it. We have a back 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:56.760 end software that we developed, the help power like Creator Things, 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:01.400 this booking of sponsors and voicing stuff like that. It 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:03.760 was sort of like a little mini sales force for 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:08.560 Creator Things, and we've been building that since twenty seventeen, 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:14.920 twenty eighteen, twenty seventeen. The engineering team was working on it. 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:17.760 When we were looking at doing an over the top 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.680 video solution. Well, like I said, we're talking to Vimeo, 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:24.280 but they wanted to own the credit card relationship. And 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:28.840 coming from my years of working with Apple as a designer, 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:32.439 I was keenly aware and my years of being a musician, 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:35.480 I was keenly aware that what made the iTunes music 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:41.080 store work is that when you want another song, Apple 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:43.960 already has your credit card number, you just press a button. 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.880 And what made the app store work is that when 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.720 you want that new app, Apple already has your credit 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:54.920 card number and you press a button. By giving Vimeo 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:58.640 full ownership of the credit card relationship, we would potentially 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:03.240 be cutting ourselves off future opportunities where we could do cool, 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:09.480 interesting you know, integrations of sorts by virtue of just 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:13.240 you know, we don't even own the actual relationship, and 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:16.040 you know what if things fell apart with that company, 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:19.520 anything had happened, we don't want to We don't want 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:23.360 to cut off all future possibilities. And so we found 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:25.520 a different partner instead, and it required a little bit 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:29.000 of development effort on our side. So we just we 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:32.000 knew we could either reassign an engineer or make one 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:34.960 more higher, and so we just made one more higher 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:37.800 onto the team. And then as the project developed, it 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:39.240 became a little bit more complex and we made a 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:42.320 second higher and I think we only had the two people. 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:44.559 By launch, there was like two engineers working on it, 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:46.040 which is where we came up with the number like 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:48.520 those two engineers over that period of time roughly one 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.720 hundred K. Not an exact science on that. It's hard 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:53.000 for it to be because they were also working on 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:55.199 other stuff at the same time, but the money came 0:10:55.240 --> 0:11:01.160 from Standard was profitable. We had those resources, and the 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:05.360 intent was always let's keep reinvesting our successes into building 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:08.680 more successes. And this was a thing that felt like 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.240 it could potentially become something. We had no idea that 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:13.360 it would turn into this. I mean, I guess We 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:17.120 had hopes, but even our hopes it never quite This 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:19.640 never seems possible, this never seemed realistic. 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:25.280 Talking about what it has turned into this is incorrect 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:27.480 me if any of this is out of date. But 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.600 currently Nebula is valued at one hundred and fifty million 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:34.480 and there are six hundred and fifty thousand paying users, 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:36.559 and that's still with no venture capital funding. 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:44.160 Pretty close Standard. The valuation is on Standard because it's confusing. 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.160 Standard is the company that owns Nebula, and while Nebula 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:50.360 is technically a separate LLC for a handful of reasons, 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:52.800 when we talk valuations, we're talking about the entirety of 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:57.600 the machine. So much of the creator relationships and audience 0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:00.520 relationships and partnerships and everything happened up at the stand level, 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:03.320 so it's kind of it's hard to fully disconnect the two. 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.320 But in that number, when we came up with the number, 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:08.400 it was based on like the totality of everything that 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:14.280 we're doing, okay, and then the year, yeah, six hundred 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:16.800 and at the moment, like six hundred and eighty thousand, okay. 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.439 And then I believe you tweeted recently that Nebula just 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.319 passed one hundred thousand daily active users. 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:27.480 Yeah, that was a fun one and we're we're getting 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:32.840 close to three hundred thousand monthly active all right. 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:36.079 So with that behind it, you know, we've talked a 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.640 lot about the business mechanics of getting it launched first, 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:43.200 but where are those views coming from the content on Nebula? 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:45.800 What can you explain what the system is and the 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:50.600 current funneling of the exclusive window of this content before 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.160 creators post it elsewhere like on YouTube. 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.760 It's really to choose your own adventure story as a creator. 0:12:57.840 --> 0:12:59.960 If you want to make things that only live on Nebula, 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:01.880 you can. If you want to make things that live 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:04.120 on Nebula for a week and then go to YouTube, 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:06.840 you can. We have different naming structures for these things 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:10.480 to try to disambiguate it for the audience, but the 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:13.120 intent is that Nebula is like the canonical home of 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:17.200 the things that these creators make. And in the case 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:21.199 of jet Lag, the business model is built around the 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:25.760 YouTube version that every video ends with a cliffhanger that 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:27.640 makes you want to go sign up for Nebula. That 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.319 was baked in from day one. That's always been the 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:35.079 plan and that works very effectively. And there are some 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:37.559 creators who they were able to get a head on 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.080 schedule and you know, maybe they make one video per month, 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:43.720 but they got a head on schedule, so the video 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:47.280 always goes to Nebula, and then last month's video goes 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.520 to YouTube at the same time, and we call those Nebula. First, 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:55.080 there's full on Nebula original productions which will only ever 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:57.640 be on Nebula. And then there's like bonus content kind 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:01.200 of DVD extras that we call Nebula. Plus the way 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:03.880 that the audience comes in sort of depends on the creator. 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:08.520 For some creators, they sign up because they really want 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.320 to see the next video. For some creators, the audience 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:13.720 signs up because there's bonus stuff that they really want 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.800 to see. For some creators, many creators, it's talking about 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:20.520 the originals is what pulls people in. And then there's 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:23.080 of course the people who come and sign up just 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.160 because they want to support the creators. Again, I think 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.680 that what makes us so different and what's hard for 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:32.440 more traditional systems to it's hard to fit us in 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:37.080 with more traditional systems because the audience, a large portion 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.640 of the audience signs up for Nebula because they believe 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.440 in us and they want to support these creators. I 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.200 don't think Disney has that kind of relationship. I don't 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.119 think Netflix has that kind of relationship. 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:59.960 We'll be back with more from Dave after this break 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:04.320 into Netflix. I know there was a stat that Nebula 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:07.520 is second only to Netflix and customer retention. 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:12.320 How do you guys measure that churn? We're using antenna 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:15.120 data for that. I believe Netflix is three point six 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:20.920 percent turn rate and the purported number two Disney plus 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:24.560 is around four and a half percent turn rate based 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:27.440 on the last numbers that we saw, and we, depending 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:29.560 on where we are in a month, hover between like 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:34.480 three point eight to four percent. So according to Antenna data, 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:37.840 if they were to classify us in the same ranking, 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:42.200 we would be number two for customer attention behind Netflix. 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:45.760 What would you say is the biggest factor keeping that 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:46.600 churn rate for you? 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.720 I think the audience just really loves the creators. They 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.280 want to see the creators succeed, and when they come in, 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:58.360 they stay because they're they're invested in the story. And 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:02.280 the cheap cop out retort to that would be that 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:05.440 so many of our customers come in like overall a 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:07.200 little Over fifty percent of the people who sign up 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.440 for Nebula signup for annual plans, so of course monthly 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:13.280 train is going to be low. And Netflix doesn't offer 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:16.600 an annual plan. I don't believe many of the big 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:20.120 streamers don't, which is weird. I've got thoughts on that, 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:26.920 But I would argue that the reason that our customers 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.320 sign up for annuals so heavily to begin with is 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:33.760 because they they know what they're getting into, they're committing. 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.480 They know that we get more money up front, they 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.520 know that things are going to grow and evolve over time. 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:42.880 They know that they're going to get more stuff. Why 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.720 wouldn't they spend thirty bucks? And I think that's what 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:48.560 it comes down to. They believe in what we're doing, 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.640 they want to see how this unfolds, and they're making 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:53.040 a one year investment. 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:57.320 In that story, we mentioned jet Lag, but I'm going 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:00.000 to go into a little more specifically now, the travel 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.000 game show that I'm obsessed with and the reason I 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:07.240 signed up for Nepula. When I first discovered jet Lag, 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.600 I watched everything currently available on YouTube, and I believe 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:12.080 we were in the middle of one of the seasons 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.120 at that point. Then I went and signed up Fornibula 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:16.199 because I wanted to see what was. 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:19.720 Currently is there. We got you, Yeah, you got. 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:22.000 Me, And I watched Crime Spree, which for people to know, 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.399 that was like the unofficial first season that's only available 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.320 to stream on Nebula. So I'd love to get an 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:30.800 idea during a season of jet Lag, or if you 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.760 have another example of another show that has that same 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.960 format on Nebula, what do sign ups look like? What 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:40.000 is kind of the bump that you get from something 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:43.119 like that, especially given that if I wanted to, I 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:48.440 could wait and watch it all on YouTube, you. 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:52.239 Could, or you could sign up. It's thirty bucks a year, 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:53.960 which comes out to be two dollars and fifty cents 0:17:53.960 --> 0:18:00.439 a month. You know, we've done premiere events where if 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:02.680 you're a Nebula subscriber you get to know it's first 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:04.320 come for serve. But if you're a Nebula subscriber, you 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:06.600 can just come to the premiere let us know. We'll 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:08.919 get you to the spot, and the spots usually I 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.760 say sell out, they're free. The spots sell out like 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:15.760 within minutes, and we'll get every single time, we'll get 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.119 one or two people who are like, if I'm not 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:20.080 signed up for Nebula, can I just buy a ticket? 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:22.720 And the answer is yeah, it's thirty dollars and it 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:26.000 comes with a free year of Nebula. Like, it's thirty dollars, 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:30.000 your uber to the venue is going to cost you. 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:34.560 That the price point is so low, especially relative to 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:37.160 other streamers. I'm not saying that this is no money, 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:42.359 and I don't want to ignore that that there's income disparity. 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:46.080 I don't want to make that assumption. But when you 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:50.520 consider the emotional attachment that the audiences tend to have, 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:54.720 and for a show like jet Lag, people really love 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:59.600 Sam and Ben and Adam, they love them. The jet 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:05.800 Lag are kind of intense about it there. They have 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:10.200 a lot of fun. We get fan art. I get 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:14.240 fan art. I'm not even on the show. Jet Lag. 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:16.840 Fans drop pictures of all of us and they are 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:20.359 constantly discussing us on Discord and on Twitter, and they 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:23.720 just really, really really love the show and that kind 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:26.000 of emotional attachment. Of course, they want to see the 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:29.200 next episode. When something can reach people and bring a 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:31.439 little bit of joy like that, and it has that 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:36.800 spirit of independence. It's not a big budget Hollywood style 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:39.679 game show production that's all full of spectacle, and like, 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:42.159 this is people doing a thing that it looks like 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:45.520 you could do that. We can people asking all the time, 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:47.280 can you make like a home version that I could 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:49.760 play with my friends? Or can will you sell the 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:51.760 cards so that I can do the same thing. But 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:54.720 we're careful about that because I don't want to encourage 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:58.000 people to jump on planes or do anything that annoys 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:02.119 other people. And bigger conversations we had about how a 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:03.879 thing like that could be done ethically. I know that 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:06.480 the jet Lag team works really hard to make sure 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.080 that anything they do, like when they film, they're always 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.439 conscious in people's privacy. They're not out there to be 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:15.679 like you know, jerk YouTubers getting everybody's way, and so 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:18.040 coming up with a way to share that that isn't 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:23.120 encouraging people to be obnoxious as something, but that kind 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:26.040 of relationship when an audience loves to show that much, 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:29.040 and when it's that easy to project yourself in or 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:30.760 feel like you're friends with these people, of course you 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:35.800 want to hit the button. That's not the hill to climb, 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:38.080 you know, a five dollars a month or thirty dollars 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:41.840 year hill to sign up for that not insurmountable, and 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:44.240 so we do see a pretty big bump. Obviously when 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.760 jet Lags on air, we conversions sign ups for jet 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:52.240 Lag go up dramatically, but it kind of happens that way. 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:59.880 We have shows that drive huge numbers. Interestingly, by various metrics. 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:04.480 Jet Lag is not our number one show. It is, 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:07.920 I think by audience engagement in terms of just people 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:11.359 being excited about it and sending us fan art, certainly 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:14.000 our number one show, but not always by watch time, 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:19.560 not always by sign ups. So whenever certain kinds of 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:23.800 projects go out, I think jet Legs are our only 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:26.879 travel or game show style thing at the moment. In 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:31.560 that format, we're working on some stuff, handful of things. 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:33.199 We don't want to just make jet Lag two. We 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:36.119 want to be really careful about one not saturating, but 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:40.200 two not like, I don't know, diluting, if that makes sense. 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:45.399 We want to reinvest our success into doing something creatively interesting, 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:49.040 not just doing the same thing again. But there's a 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:51.320 number of formats, different creators work on different things, and 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:56.920 it's more about like audience depth and audience love will 0:21:57.000 --> 0:21:58.159 drive the big numbers. 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:04.560 So with that all that said, why is jet lagged 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:08.679 not exclusively on Nebula, And that same question going for 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:12.800 any really high trafficking Nebula stuff, and if those conversations 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:16.480 have ever been had with those creators, and why From 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:19.160 a business standpoint, someone would see, well, obviously this does 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:21.680 very well, and it could do better if it only 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:22.440 existed here. 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:25.639 It's easy to think that what we're building is a 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:30.000 YouTube competitor, and if you imagine it as a YouTube competitor, 0:22:30.400 --> 0:22:34.480 it's easy to think that anything we do, from any 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:37.959 creator we work with the goal should be for it 0:22:38.040 --> 0:22:43.359 to be exclusively on Nebula. What we're really building is 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:47.480 a Netflix competitor, and the path we're going to have 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:51.280 to take to get there. YouTube is our biggest partner. 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:56.240 YouTube is our closest ally. YouTube is the top of 0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:59.200 the funnel for us. We're just a little bit further down, 0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:06.440 and the way that the audience dynamics work, the YouTube algorithm, 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:12.760 much maligned, is our greatest champion. It's out there finding 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:16.560 new fans for us. It's out there finding new people 0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:20.560 who love the things that our creators make. And so 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:25.240