1 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: Book of a strictly business varieties weekly podcasts featuring conversations 2 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: about the business of media and entertainment. I'm TV business 3 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: writer Jennifer Mows. Nebula, which launched in twenty nineteen, describes 4 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: itself as a creator focused, creator built, creator first premium 5 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,159 Speaker 1: streaming service akin to a Netflix or Hulu, but with 6 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: the athos of Patreon. The four year old indie streaming service, 7 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: which is backed by creator owned management company Standard and 8 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: a minority stake held by Curiosity Stream, costs five dollars 9 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: a month or fifty dollars a year to subscribe to. 10 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: It currently tolls six hundred and fifty thousand subscribers and 11 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: past one hundred thousand daily active users in October. Nebula 12 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: is home to the popular amazing race style online competition 13 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: series Jetlag The Game, which is half a million subscribers 14 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: on YouTube, as well as the Theater in the Round, 15 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:02,639 Speaker 1: Shakespearean trans Coming Out Story of the Prince, and Night 16 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: of the Coconut, the debut film from Patrick Wilms. Unlike 17 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: other streamers, Nebula sees YouTube as a partner, not a competitor, 18 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: with episodes of Nebula series usually seeing a week long 19 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: exclusive window on Nebula before creators post them to YouTube 20 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: and use them to intern promote Nebula. In August, Nebula 21 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: named jet Lagstar Sam Denby its first chief content officer, 22 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: and is currently promoting its fall lineup of originals. We'll 23 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: be back with Dave after this break here to talk 24 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: about the growth of the indie platform and plans to 25 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: expand on its slate of original series on today's Strictly 26 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: Business podcast is Nebula CEO Dave Whiscus. I'd like to 27 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: start with, just for our audience members who might not 28 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: be familiar with Nebula, what is it in your own roof? 29 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: There should be an easier answer to this question. Makes 30 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 2: it complicated is that nothing like this has really been 31 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 2: achieved before. And I don't necessarily mean that in a 32 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 2: grand standing sort of way. It's just that it always 33 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 2: ends up being like a tech company who tries to 34 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 2: do a thing with creators, or an entertainment media company 35 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 2: who tries to do user generated content stuff like Quibi 36 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 2: or something. It's never the creators starting their own thing 37 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 2: and then like really landing it. And in our case, 38 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 2: it's a group of creators who got together because we 39 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 2: saw that very simply on a creator career path. Step 40 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 2: one is YouTube or whatever, and step say ten is Netflix. 41 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 2: The problem is where are steps two through nine? If 42 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 2: we want that to exist, we want to build that bridge. 43 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 2: We have to build it. And so the purpose of Nebula, 44 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 2: the thing that we're building, the thing that we have built, 45 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,679 Speaker 2: it is intended to be a way for the creators 46 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: to to sort of traverse the the vast space between 47 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 2: user generating content and more traditionally accepted forms of media 48 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 2: and entertainment. And it's it's almost a fraught answer to 49 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 2: say to focus on, like what the creators get out 50 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 2: of this, But what we've learned is that so much 51 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 2: of the relationship, so much of what makes this this 52 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 2: kind of thing powerful, is the relationship between the audience 53 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,519 Speaker 2: and the creator. That's where we win. It's that sort 54 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 2: of parasocial dynamic. So for the audience at at the 55 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 2: base level, earliest days, it's about getting access to things early, 56 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 2: it's about getting access to behind the scenes content. Not 57 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: this similar from the value proposition of a Patreon or 58 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 2: something like that. As we look out into the future, 59 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 2: we've always been building up our originals, building up our 60 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 2: stable of you know, content that is made here and 61 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 2: in the case of like a jet lag might end 62 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 2: up also on YouTube as a way to pull people in, 63 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 2: but things that have our logo on it. The idea 64 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 2: is a little bit less Patreon, a little bit more 65 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 2: a twenty four which can be a brand definition, here's 66 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 2: what creators are capable of. And then step three in that, 67 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 2: I guess, is Nebula being more of a Netflix style 68 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 2: destination home for really great things that are made by 69 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 2: people who might not have had the opportunity or the 70 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 2: means to do those projects within the traditional Hollywood system 71 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 2: or traditional media system. 72 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: What is again asking you to define here? Standard which 73 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 1: is a company that is behind Nebula and existed preceded 74 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: Nebula's launch. 75 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 2: Very simply a talent management company. We work with a 76 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 2: bunch of creators. We book sponsors on their shows and 77 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 2: help them develop their businesses. And along the way we 78 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 2: realize that there are some gaps in the industry, like 79 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 2: around licensing and things like that. And we had been working, 80 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 2: we've been chatting with YouTube back when they were still 81 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 2: doing originals. They had asked us for some pitches for 82 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 2: original shows. We sent them over and they kind of 83 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: never got back to us, so we decided, know what, 84 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 2: We're going to start our own serving video platform. So 85 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 2: standard is there to help creators build and guide and 86 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: run their business operations, and Nebulas is kind of a 87 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 2: consequence of that. 88 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: When we're exactly if you remember where and when where 89 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: Nebula came from and what was part of the we 90 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: can actually make this work when something like a Vessel 91 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: did not work. 92 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Vessel was like as a technology driven 93 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 2: technology solution made by technology people. There's business, there's technology, 94 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 2: there's maybe some entertainment media in there. I don't want 95 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 2: to comment too hard on them. But for us, it 96 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 2: came organically. We had been approached by the group that 97 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 2: was building what became Peacock in the end, wanting to 98 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 2: bring like user generated content stuff onto a new platform 99 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 2: they were building. They wanted to talk licensing, but how 100 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 2: they approached the licensing deals it sort of didn't make 101 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 2: much sense because it would be wildly different from creator 102 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 2: to creator, and we kind of wanted to take the 103 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 2: collective bargaining power, the leverage that we had as as 104 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,559 Speaker 2: a group and kind of get everybody a more consistent deal. 105 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 2: At the same time, we were being approached by Vimeo, 106 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 2: the lovely people at Vimeo who they were saying. They 107 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 2: picked one creator and they said, this person should have 108 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 2: their own streaming service. We can build an over the 109 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 2: top solution empower that streaming service. And that guy makes 110 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 2: a video every three months. What kind of streaming service 111 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 2: would that be? You're paying what five dollars a month 112 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 2: for a content catalog of sixteen videos? Come on like 113 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 2: that doesn't And they said, do you have any other 114 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 2: creators who are more frequent, who for whom that would 115 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,359 Speaker 2: make sense? And said, well, no, the only way they 116 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 2: would really make any times as if it were all 117 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 2: of the creators, And oh, oh, that's an idea. What 118 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 2: if we did that? And looking at the over the 119 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 2: top streaming solutions at the time, how cheap it had gotten, 120 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 2: and how doing something like that could provide a content 121 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 2: licensing engine. Potentially there were multiple problems that could be 122 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 2: solved at once, the licensing thing and you know, building 123 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 2: out some sort of test bed of a new business 124 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 2: venture for creators. And I took the idea to it. 125 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 2: This would have been i want to say, November of 126 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 2: twenty eighteen. October November of twenty eighteen, I took to 127 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 2: the creators and with this long email like, here's kind 128 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 2: of what I'm thinking, here's my vision for this, and 129 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 2: I expected it would be a six month climb to 130 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 2: convince everybody like, let's get it. Let's get em pretty 131 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 2: on board. I knew that I could, because it was 132 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 2: just it was inexpensive enough that there wasn't a ton 133 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 2: of risk in it. We had to come up with 134 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 2: enough value proposition to the creators. So I figured out, well, 135 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 2: give me six months and I'll eventually get everybody there. 136 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 2: I sent out the email and instantly every single creator 137 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 2: was like, we have to do this. Let's go getting 138 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 2: going doing that. 139 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: I know you will. Started with I think it's one 140 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars to get Nebilla actually ready for a launch? 141 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 2: Where did that from? 142 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: Because I know you didn't have venture capital. 143 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 2: The extent that that can be true, it is true 144 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 2: because the calculus there is how much were we paying 145 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 2: the engineer who was working on it for the time 146 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 2: that they are the engineers who were working on it 147 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 2: over the time that they spent working on it. It 148 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 2: wasn't like we wrote a hundred thousand dollars check. It's 149 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 2: more like we as a business standard. We have a 150 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 2: whole what you can call it. We have a back 151 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 2: end software that we developed, the help power like Creator Things, 152 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 2: this booking of sponsors and voicing stuff like that. It 153 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 2: was sort of like a little mini sales force for 154 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 2: Creator Things, and we've been building that since twenty seventeen, 155 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, twenty seventeen. The engineering team was working on it. 156 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 2: When we were looking at doing an over the top 157 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 2: video solution. Well, like I said, we're talking to Vimeo, 158 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 2: but they wanted to own the credit card relationship. And 159 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 2: coming from my years of working with Apple as a designer, 160 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,439 Speaker 2: I was keenly aware and my years of being a musician, 161 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 2: I was keenly aware that what made the iTunes music 162 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 2: store work is that when you want another song, Apple 163 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 2: already has your credit card number, you just press a button. 164 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 2: And what made the app store work is that when 165 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 2: you want that new app, Apple already has your credit 166 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 2: card number and you press a button. By giving Vimeo 167 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 2: full ownership of the credit card relationship, we would potentially 168 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 2: be cutting ourselves off future opportunities where we could do cool, 169 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 2: interesting you know, integrations of sorts by virtue of just 170 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 2: you know, we don't even own the actual relationship, and 171 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 2: you know what if things fell apart with that company, 172 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 2: anything had happened, we don't want to We don't want 173 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 2: to cut off all future possibilities. And so we found 174 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 2: a different partner instead, and it required a little bit 175 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 2: of development effort on our side. So we just we 176 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 2: knew we could either reassign an engineer or make one 177 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 2: more higher, and so we just made one more higher 178 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 2: onto the team. And then as the project developed, it 179 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 2: became a little bit more complex and we made a 180 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 2: second higher and I think we only had the two people. 181 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 2: By launch, there was like two engineers working on it, 182 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 2: which is where we came up with the number like 183 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 2: those two engineers over that period of time roughly one 184 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 2: hundred K. Not an exact science on that. It's hard 185 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 2: for it to be because they were also working on 186 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 2: other stuff at the same time, but the money came 187 00:10:55,240 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 2: from Standard was profitable. We had those resources, and the 188 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: intent was always let's keep reinvesting our successes into building 189 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 2: more successes. And this was a thing that felt like 190 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 2: it could potentially become something. We had no idea that 191 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 2: it would turn into this. I mean, I guess We 192 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 2: had hopes, but even our hopes it never quite This 193 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 2: never seems possible, this never seemed realistic. 194 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: Talking about what it has turned into this is incorrect 195 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: me if any of this is out of date. But 196 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: currently Nebula is valued at one hundred and fifty million 197 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: and there are six hundred and fifty thousand paying users, 198 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 1: and that's still with no venture capital funding. 199 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 2: Pretty close Standard. The valuation is on Standard because it's confusing. 200 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 2: Standard is the company that owns Nebula, and while Nebula 201 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 2: is technically a separate LLC for a handful of reasons, 202 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 2: when we talk valuations, we're talking about the entirety of 203 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 2: the machine. So much of the creator relationships and audience 204 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: relationships and partnerships and everything happened up at the stand level, 205 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 2: so it's kind of it's hard to fully disconnect the two. 206 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 2: But in that number, when we came up with the number, 207 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 2: it was based on like the totality of everything that 208 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 2: we're doing, okay, and then the year, yeah, six hundred 209 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 2: and at the moment, like six hundred and eighty thousand, okay. 210 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 1: And then I believe you tweeted recently that Nebula just 211 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,319 Speaker 1: passed one hundred thousand daily active users. 212 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a fun one and we're we're getting 213 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 2: close to three hundred thousand monthly active all right. 214 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 1: So with that behind it, you know, we've talked a 215 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: lot about the business mechanics of getting it launched first, 216 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: but where are those views coming from the content on Nebula? 217 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: What can you explain what the system is and the 218 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: current funneling of the exclusive window of this content before 219 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: creators post it elsewhere like on YouTube. 220 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 2: It's really to choose your own adventure story as a creator. 221 00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 2: If you want to make things that only live on Nebula, 222 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 2: you can. If you want to make things that live 223 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 2: on Nebula for a week and then go to YouTube, 224 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 2: you can. We have different naming structures for these things 225 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 2: to try to disambiguate it for the audience, but the 226 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 2: intent is that Nebula is like the canonical home of 227 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 2: the things that these creators make. And in the case 228 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 2: of jet Lag, the business model is built around the 229 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 2: YouTube version that every video ends with a cliffhanger that 230 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 2: makes you want to go sign up for Nebula. That 231 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 2: was baked in from day one. That's always been the 232 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:35,079 Speaker 2: plan and that works very effectively. And there are some 233 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 2: creators who they were able to get a head on 234 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 2: schedule and you know, maybe they make one video per month, 235 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 2: but they got a head on schedule, so the video 236 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 2: always goes to Nebula, and then last month's video goes 237 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 2: to YouTube at the same time, and we call those Nebula. First, 238 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 2: there's full on Nebula original productions which will only ever 239 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 2: be on Nebula. And then there's like bonus content kind 240 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 2: of DVD extras that we call Nebula. Plus the way 241 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 2: that the audience comes in sort of depends on the creator. 242 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 2: For some creators, they sign up because they really want 243 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 2: to see the next video. For some creators, the audience 244 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 2: signs up because there's bonus stuff that they really want 245 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 2: to see. For some creators, many creators, it's talking about 246 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 2: the originals is what pulls people in. And then there's 247 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 2: of course the people who come and sign up just 248 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 2: because they want to support the creators. Again, I think 249 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 2: that what makes us so different and what's hard for 250 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 2: more traditional systems to it's hard to fit us in 251 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 2: with more traditional systems because the audience, a large portion 252 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 2: of the audience signs up for Nebula because they believe 253 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 2: in us and they want to support these creators. I 254 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 2: don't think Disney has that kind of relationship. I don't 255 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,119 Speaker 2: think Netflix has that kind of relationship. 256 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from Dave after this break 257 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: into Netflix. I know there was a stat that Nebula 258 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: is second only to Netflix and customer retention. 259 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 2: How do you guys measure that churn? We're using antenna 260 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 2: data for that. I believe Netflix is three point six 261 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 2: percent turn rate and the purported number two Disney plus 262 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 2: is around four and a half percent turn rate based 263 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 2: on the last numbers that we saw, and we, depending 264 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 2: on where we are in a month, hover between like 265 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 2: three point eight to four percent. So according to Antenna data, 266 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 2: if they were to classify us in the same ranking, 267 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 2: we would be number two for customer attention behind Netflix. 268 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: What would you say is the biggest factor keeping that 269 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: churn rate for you? 270 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 2: I think the audience just really loves the creators. They 271 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 2: want to see the creators succeed, and when they come in, 272 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 2: they stay because they're they're invested in the story. And 273 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 2: the cheap cop out retort to that would be that 274 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 2: so many of our customers come in like overall a 275 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 2: little Over fifty percent of the people who sign up 276 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 2: for Nebula signup for annual plans, so of course monthly 277 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 2: train is going to be low. And Netflix doesn't offer 278 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 2: an annual plan. I don't believe many of the big 279 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 2: streamers don't, which is weird. I've got thoughts on that, 280 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 2: But I would argue that the reason that our customers 281 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 2: sign up for annuals so heavily to begin with is 282 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 2: because they they know what they're getting into, they're committing. 283 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 2: They know that we get more money up front, they 284 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 2: know that things are going to grow and evolve over time. 285 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 2: They know that they're going to get more stuff. Why 286 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 2: wouldn't they spend thirty bucks? And I think that's what 287 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 2: it comes down to. They believe in what we're doing, 288 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 2: they want to see how this unfolds, and they're making 289 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 2: a one year investment. 290 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: In that story, we mentioned jet Lag, but I'm going 291 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: to go into a little more specifically now, the travel 292 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: game show that I'm obsessed with and the reason I 293 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: signed up for Nepula. When I first discovered jet Lag, 294 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: I watched everything currently available on YouTube, and I believe 295 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: we were in the middle of one of the seasons 296 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 1: at that point. Then I went and signed up Fornibula 297 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 1: because I wanted to see what was. 298 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 2: Currently is there. We got you, Yeah, you got. 299 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: Me, And I watched Crime Spree, which for people to know, 300 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 1: that was like the unofficial first season that's only available 301 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: to stream on Nebula. So I'd love to get an 302 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: idea during a season of jet Lag, or if you 303 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: have another example of another show that has that same 304 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: format on Nebula, what do sign ups look like? What 305 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: is kind of the bump that you get from something 306 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: like that, especially given that if I wanted to, I 307 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: could wait and watch it all on YouTube, you. 308 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,239 Speaker 2: Could, or you could sign up. It's thirty bucks a year, 309 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 2: which comes out to be two dollars and fifty cents 310 00:17:53,960 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 2: a month. You know, we've done premiere events where if 311 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 2: you're a Nebula subscriber you get to know it's first 312 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 2: come for serve. But if you're a Nebula subscriber, you 313 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 2: can just come to the premiere let us know. We'll 314 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,919 Speaker 2: get you to the spot, and the spots usually I 315 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 2: say sell out, they're free. The spots sell out like 316 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 2: within minutes, and we'll get every single time, we'll get 317 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 2: one or two people who are like, if I'm not 318 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 2: signed up for Nebula, can I just buy a ticket? 319 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 2: And the answer is yeah, it's thirty dollars and it 320 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 2: comes with a free year of Nebula. Like, it's thirty dollars, 321 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 2: your uber to the venue is going to cost you. 322 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 2: That the price point is so low, especially relative to 323 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 2: other streamers. I'm not saying that this is no money, 324 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 2: and I don't want to ignore that that there's income disparity. 325 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 2: I don't want to make that assumption. But when you 326 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 2: consider the emotional attachment that the audiences tend to have, 327 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 2: and for a show like jet Lag, people really love 328 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 2: Sam and Ben and Adam, they love them. The jet 329 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 2: Lag are kind of intense about it there. They have 330 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 2: a lot of fun. We get fan art. I get 331 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 2: fan art. I'm not even on the show. Jet Lag. 332 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 2: Fans drop pictures of all of us and they are 333 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 2: constantly discussing us on Discord and on Twitter, and they 334 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 2: just really, really really love the show and that kind 335 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 2: of emotional attachment. Of course, they want to see the 336 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 2: next episode. When something can reach people and bring a 337 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 2: little bit of joy like that, and it has that 338 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 2: spirit of independence. It's not a big budget Hollywood style 339 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 2: game show production that's all full of spectacle, and like, 340 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 2: this is people doing a thing that it looks like 341 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 2: you could do that. We can people asking all the time, 342 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 2: can you make like a home version that I could 343 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 2: play with my friends? Or can will you sell the 344 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 2: cards so that I can do the same thing. But 345 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 2: we're careful about that because I don't want to encourage 346 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 2: people to jump on planes or do anything that annoys 347 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 2: other people. And bigger conversations we had about how a 348 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 2: thing like that could be done ethically. I know that 349 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 2: the jet Lag team works really hard to make sure 350 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 2: that anything they do, like when they film, they're always 351 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 2: conscious in people's privacy. They're not out there to be 352 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 2: like you know, jerk YouTubers getting everybody's way, and so 353 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 2: coming up with a way to share that that isn't 354 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 2: encouraging people to be obnoxious as something, but that kind 355 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 2: of relationship when an audience loves to show that much, 356 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 2: and when it's that easy to project yourself in or 357 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 2: feel like you're friends with these people, of course you 358 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 2: want to hit the button. That's not the hill to climb, 359 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 2: you know, a five dollars a month or thirty dollars 360 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 2: year hill to sign up for that not insurmountable, and 361 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 2: so we do see a pretty big bump. Obviously when 362 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 2: jet Lags on air, we conversions sign ups for jet 363 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 2: Lag go up dramatically, but it kind of happens that way. 364 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 2: We have shows that drive huge numbers. Interestingly, by various metrics. 365 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 2: Jet Lag is not our number one show. It is, 366 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 2: I think by audience engagement in terms of just people 367 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 2: being excited about it and sending us fan art, certainly 368 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 2: our number one show, but not always by watch time, 369 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 2: not always by sign ups. So whenever certain kinds of 370 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 2: projects go out, I think jet Legs are our only 371 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 2: travel or game show style thing at the moment. In 372 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 2: that format, we're working on some stuff, handful of things. 373 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,199 Speaker 2: We don't want to just make jet Lag two. We 374 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 2: want to be really careful about one not saturating, but 375 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 2: two not like, I don't know, diluting, if that makes sense. 376 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 2: We want to reinvest our success into doing something creatively interesting, 377 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 2: not just doing the same thing again. But there's a 378 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 2: number of formats, different creators work on different things, and 379 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 2: it's more about like audience depth and audience love will 380 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:58,159 Speaker 2: drive the big numbers. 381 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: So with that all that said, why is jet lagged 382 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 1: not exclusively on Nebula, And that same question going for 383 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: any really high trafficking Nebula stuff, and if those conversations 384 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: have ever been had with those creators, and why From 385 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 1: a business standpoint, someone would see, well, obviously this does 386 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: very well, and it could do better if it only 387 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: existed here. 388 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 2: It's easy to think that what we're building is a 389 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 2: YouTube competitor, and if you imagine it as a YouTube competitor, 390 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 2: it's easy to think that anything we do, from any 391 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,959 Speaker 2: creator we work with the goal should be for it 392 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 2: to be exclusively on Nebula. What we're really building is 393 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 2: a Netflix competitor, and the path we're going to have 394 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 2: to take to get there. YouTube is our biggest partner. 395 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 2: YouTube is our closest ally. YouTube is the top of 396 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 2: the funnel for us. We're just a little bit further down, 397 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 2: and the way that the audience dynamics work, the YouTube algorithm, 398 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 2: much maligned, is our greatest champion. It's out there finding 399 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 2: new fans for us. It's out there finding new people 400 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 2: who love the things that our creators make. And so 401 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 2: we've designed our system, our entire business model around leveraging 402 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 2: that to bring those fans to us. How often do 403 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 2: you get, like an egga corporation building you a free 404 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 2: machine to bring you audience first. We're going to take 405 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 2: advantage of that. Someday. It's entirely possible that any of 406 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 2: our shows become exclusive to Nebula, not really by design, 407 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,360 Speaker 2: at least at the moment we have folks. Lindsay Ellis 408 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 2: is one hundred percent exclusive to Nebula, not really by 409 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 2: our request so much as hers. She sort of got 410 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 2: tired of the way she was in the public eye 411 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 2: and she sort of wanted to approach her career differently, 412 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 2: and we were supportive of that. He absolutely kills on Watsteim. 413 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 2: Her fans love her too. But it wasn't because we're like, 414 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,360 Speaker 2: we must collect all of the things and they must 415 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 2: all be hours. We're not like Thanos out there grabbing 416 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 2: all the Infinity Stones. We're not here to catch them all. 417 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 2: I'm back to Pokemon. The goal rather is to build 418 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 2: a bridge. I want to occupy a much more a 419 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 2: twenty four style space where we work with the creators. 420 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 2: We help them make the we help them make the 421 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 2: things that they want to make, We help them develop 422 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,479 Speaker 2: as creators. I'm in La right now on set with 423 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 2: Jesse Earl Jesse Gender, who's directing her first larger, larger 424 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 2: budget short film, sci fi production, narrative fiction. We've got 425 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 2: like panavision camera and the actors you've heard of and 426 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 2: all of this. And the idea is that if we 427 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 2: provide Jesse with a structure that can help her become successful, 428 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 2: she can actually become a real filmmaker. She has the talent, 429 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 2: she has the skill, she has the ambition. It's for 430 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 2: most of our creators, those aren't the gap. For most 431 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 2: people on YouTube, those aren't the gap. It usually comes 432 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 2: down to connections, funding and experience. And so what we're 433 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 2: trying to do with Nebula is build a system that 434 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 2: can provide the connections the funding and the experience and 435 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,640 Speaker 2: build a bridge so not everything has to be exclusive here. 436 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 2: I would love it if we could live in a 437 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 2: world where Jesse or other filmmakers we work with Patrick 438 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 2: Williams start making movies that go to a wide theatrical 439 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 2: release and there's some segment of the audience where the 440 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 2: only thing they know Nebula as is the you know, 441 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 2: the stinger that comes up before the movie starts the 442 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 2: same way that you would see the A twenty four 443 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 2: logo or the sky Dance logo, Ambulance Entertainment like these 444 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 2: kinds of things. I guess the closest analog for the 445 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 2: division is something like if A twenty four had their 446 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 2: own streaming service, you can see everything everywhere, all at once, 447 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 2: on any of the things. But if you go to 448 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 2: A twenty four saying you can see all of their productions, 449 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 2: that's kind of how we're thinking about it. 450 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: Okay, with that, I'm wondering if you can explain what 451 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: the difference is between original content that lives on Nebula 452 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: and a Nebula original. 453 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 2: Is there a difference? 454 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,880 Speaker 1: Well, make sure you guys have a state of Nebula 455 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,679 Speaker 1: originals that you've announced coming in the fall. So I 456 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: wonder what these are and why they're labeled that way, 457 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 1: and what that means. A Nebula versus a creator whose 458 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 1: content exists on Nebula if there are things commissioned by 459 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,439 Speaker 1: Nebula and that are owned by Nebula versus content that 460 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 1: does a creator own it when it exists on there 461 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: and is on Nebula. 462 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 2: Oh, there's a part of this question I'm really excited 463 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 2: to answer. I'll save that part. So there's the it's 464 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 2: a yeah, this is an entirely intuitive and there's not 465 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 2: a great solution for this, but the best way to 466 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 2: think of this is if we are paying for it 467 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,919 Speaker 2: in total or you know, in majority, and we are 468 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 2: providing our own production resources. We have an entire Nebula 469 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 2: Studios team, which is headed up by a former Marvel 470 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 2: Studios producer, that exists specifically to help creators make the 471 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 2: things that they want to make. So, like for Identities, 472 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 2: the Nebula original film that we're working on here in 473 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 2: LA this week, we have an entire production team working 474 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 2: together to support Jesse in making this film that is 475 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 2: very clearly a Nebula original, writing, production, support, providing funding, 476 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 2: and it'll live exclusively on Nebula for a creator who 477 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 2: they made a video and they also made like a 478 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 2: five minute companion piece that doesn't really fit on YouTube, 479 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 2: so they're going to make it like a Nebula exclusive 480 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 2: thing that's not really an original, not in not in 481 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 2: the way that you'd think prestige original. It's more of 482 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 2: like bonus content, like a DVD extra. So we kind 483 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,880 Speaker 2: of break it down like that, if it's its own thing, 484 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 2: and stands alone, and you could imagine, you know, sitting 485 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 2: down and hitting play on just that and we help 486 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 2: to make it. Then that's an original. If there's prestige, 487 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 2: that's an original. But if it's like a thing that 488 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 2: kind of needs the rest of the system to make 489 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 2: any sense, that's more of a plus kind of thing. 490 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 2: But the other part of your question, like who owns it, 491 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 2: Every single thing that the creators make that go on Nebula, 492 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 2: including every single one of our originals, are owned by 493 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 2: the creators. We do not own the intellectual property. If 494 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 2: it's a Nebula original, we get an exclusive an exclusive 495 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 2: streaming license, but we don't own the IP. So if 496 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 2: in the case of the short film that we're working 497 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 2: on now Identities, it could be treated as a pilot 498 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 2: episode of a show, and Jesse could take that pilot 499 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 2: to Netflix, to HBO, to whomever and sell the show. 500 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 2: They would have to buy their rights to the pilot 501 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 2: from us, the streaming rights to the pilot from us, 502 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,239 Speaker 2: but Jesse could sell the entire show. We don't get 503 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 2: a penny. You can develop merchandising around it. We don't 504 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 2: get a penny, ask George Lucas a valuable that actn. 505 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: Be So does that pose you know, concerns to Nebula 506 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: as a company that you don't own the IP and 507 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: could a creator take their content off Nebula anytime they 508 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: wanted to. 509 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 2: Concerns. No, No, I think that trust has to be 510 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 2: at the core of what we do. Like, I don't 511 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 2: want to be in business with anybody who doesn't want 512 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 2: to be in business with me. I don't want people 513 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 2: locked into a relationship for a creator. They either they 514 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 2: believe in what we're doing and we're all on the 515 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 2: same team, or they don't. And it's helpful to note 516 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 2: that Nebula fifty per of Nebula is owned by the creators. 517 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 2: If we were to ever sell it, we have to 518 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 2: contractually give fifty percent of that money to the creators. 519 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 2: Whenever there's there's profit, we have to give fifty percent 520 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 2: of that profit to the creators. This is a partnership 521 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 2: that when we bring a new creator in, we're not 522 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 2: signing talent. We're bringing in a new business. It's part 523 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 2: of the reason why we're so slow and methodical and 524 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 2: how we grow our roster, Like we're we're not signing 525 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 2: random deals to get content. We are you know, these 526 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 2: are new roommates we're interviewing. These are longer term relationships. 527 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 2: So because of that, because of the nature of the relationships, 528 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 2: we don't see a lot of people leave. There's not 529 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 2: a ton of hard requirements for things people are have 530 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 2: to do. So for the folks who maybe don't have 531 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 2: the bandwidth or aren't seeing returns, then you know they 532 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 2: can kind of just coast on it and keep uploading 533 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 2: to both places and still get some level of reward. Also, 534 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 2: we're the largest sponsor for all of our creators. We 535 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 2: literally every month, our largest line item is we pay 536 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 2: all of our creators to go tell our audience that 537 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 2: they're on Nebula. So there's not a ton of incentive 538 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 2: for anyone to walk away from that relationship. So we're 539 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 2: not really worried about it. I think we're to lock 540 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 2: people into anything. If the deal is good enough, if 541 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 2: the relationship is good enough, they'll stay. And hanging on 542 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 2: to intellectual property licenses doesn't get us out of that, 543 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 2: it doesn't solve any problems. In fact, by not doing that, 544 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 2: it helps us set a tempo of like we're in 545 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 2: this together. We're helping you build things. Our mission is 546 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 2: not to own all of the things in the world. 547 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 2: Our mission is to help an extremely talented and ambitious 548 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 2: group of young creators. I say young not because they're twelve, 549 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 2: but because the industry is young, help them make the 550 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 2: things that they want to make because we know they can. 551 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 2: And if we're a hit maker, and if we are, 552 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 2: if we build our reputation on trust and our ability 553 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 2: to help achieve those goals, then that's where we're going 554 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 2: to win. Not because we have an infinitely deep content 555 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 2: catalog of things we own. We don't need to own everything. 556 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 2: It's better if we don't. 557 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: Thank you for joining me today, Babe. In closing, is 558 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: there anything else you want our audience to know about Nebula? 559 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 2: There's this uphill battle we've been fighting for years to 560 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 2: get any kind of recognition outside of our bubble. And 561 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 2: we talked to going back to the thing with Sam 562 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 2: and doing Netflix stuff or developing shows for other platforms 563 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 2: and all of that. We've had similar conversations. We've been 564 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 2: approached by major Hollywood development companies like yeah, we want 565 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 2: to put your show, your creators on Netflix. We do 566 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 2: these things and we go through the exercise like okay, well, 567 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 2: how long would development, take what does the money look like? 568 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 2: And it ends up being like, okay, so you want 569 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 2: us to You want this creator to commit two years 570 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 2: of their life to developing a thing that they sell 571 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 2: for fifty thousand dollars and they maybe get a roll 572 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 2: on for another maybe hundred two hundred k, setting aside 573 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,479 Speaker 2: everything else they could be working on. You want them 574 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 2: to spend two years on this for a show that 575 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 2: you're going to cancel after one season because it's Netflix 576 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty k, right, Or we could just 577 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,479 Speaker 2: stay on YouTube, reach hundreds of millions of people and 578 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 2: make millions of dollars a year. Why the hell are 579 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 2: we even talking to you? It just doesn't make any sense. 580 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 2: Hollywood treats us as a farm league. They treat us 581 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 2: like cheap talent. My number one goal in starting doing 582 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 2: like real pr work and getting our name out there 583 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 2: in a different way was getting coverage and Variety. 584 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us for this week's episode of 585 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: Variety Strictly Business podcast. You can find new episodes weekly 586 00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts.