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Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with text Stuff from hastuff

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Speaker 1: dot com either everyone, and welcome to text Stuff. I'm

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland and I'm Lauren bulf Obam. And you know, Lauren,

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Speaker 1: one of the the topics that we've had requests for

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Speaker 1: multiple times over the years that tech Stuff has been

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Speaker 1: around has been to talk about ad block and add

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Speaker 1: blocking browser extensions and to just sort of talk through it,

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Speaker 1: explain it. And this is one of those really controversial,

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Speaker 1: contentious subjects about the Web in general. Oh sure, because

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Speaker 1: so much of the Web is driven revenue wise by

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Speaker 1: ads um and it is also a huge source of

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Speaker 1: annoyance for basically everyone. Yeah, so it's it's a tough situation. Now,

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Speaker 1: before we get started on this, we'll go ahead and

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Speaker 1: say that you know, there there are the advertisers who

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Speaker 1: make ads are not in the necessarily trying to make

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Speaker 1: them to annoy you. That would actually be counter productive

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Speaker 1: to what the ad is supposed to do. Well. I

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Speaker 1: would argue that some ad theory um states that if

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Speaker 1: you annoy an audience enough to get their attention, then

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Speaker 1: that's a good thing. But that's but, but we're getting

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Speaker 1: into sticky territory there and we'll we'll cover all of

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Speaker 1: that as we go along. But if you wanted to

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Speaker 1: hear a really simple story about how ad block came

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Speaker 1: to be, bad news everyone. As it turns out, ad

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Speaker 1: block has got an incredibly complex story because it is

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Speaker 1: one of those things where it's kind of like a hydra.

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Speaker 1: You know, eventually one head would get cut off and

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Speaker 1: two other heads would spring up, and those two heads

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Speaker 1: would each be doing kind of what the first head did,

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Speaker 1: but they're doing it in a different way, and they're

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Speaker 1: not really communicating with each other, and when they do

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Speaker 1: communicate with each other, they're fighting a little bit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's one of those that it's it's not

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Speaker 1: so simple as to say, like, uh, you know this

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Speaker 1: one piece of software. Now it's version two, now it's

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Speaker 1: version three. You actually have lots of forking going on.

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Speaker 1: It's more like Windows, how Windows would occasionally fork into

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Speaker 1: different groups. And you're like, well, I used to be

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Speaker 1: able to explain the history of Windows, but now not

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Speaker 1: so much. But you can actually trace it back to

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Speaker 1: a single point, a historical moment when the very first

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Speaker 1: version of ad block came out, and it originally came

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Speaker 1: out for the Firefox web browser. This was a browser extension. UM.

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Speaker 1: Firefox being open source, it allows people to developers well,

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Speaker 1: I mean developers are people. I didn't mean to. UM.

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Speaker 1: It allows you to create extensions or add ons for

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Speaker 1: the browser in order to change or improve or to

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Speaker 1: increase its functionality. Right, Yeah, because there's some things that

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Speaker 1: a browser can do, and then occasionally the web develops

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Speaker 1: in such a way where there's some really awesome stuff

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Speaker 1: you could do if the browser just supported it, and

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Speaker 1: the extensions kind of allow you to create that ability, right,

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Speaker 1: and so according to one Vladimir Poland, a Danish programmer

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Speaker 1: by the name of henryk Ostav Sarson, I think I

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Speaker 1: got that right. Yeah, we definitely better than I could have.

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Speaker 1: Um who developed this extension? I I don't remember now

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Speaker 1: if we said already in two thousand two. No, we

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Speaker 1: did not. Yeah, by the way, the reason why we

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Speaker 1: said we don't know already is because you guys do

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Speaker 1: not get treated to the fact that our buildings started

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Speaker 1: to vibrate because of something going on somewhere inside this building,

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Speaker 1: and we figured you'd rather be you know, saved that experience.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, three minute break in which we went what

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Speaker 1: is that, yeah, But in two thousand two, in fact,

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Speaker 1: he did begin development on this. This was formally the

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Speaker 1: ad Block Extension, and at that point it was spelled

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Speaker 1: A D little B L O c K. No. The

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Speaker 1: reason I say little B is because the other versions

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Speaker 1: will talk about differentiate themselves with capitalization as well as

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Speaker 1: adding other words. But this is the first one. Now,

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Speaker 1: this one could block images, which at the time was

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Speaker 1: pretty much the main form of web advertising. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: the only one that was the main one. So things

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Speaker 1: like banner ads that were at the top, or the

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Speaker 1: ones that are along the side of the column, or

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Speaker 1: even just inserted directly as like a picture inside an article.

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Speaker 1: That's the kind of stuff that would block. Sure. And

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Speaker 1: so if you found an image that you didn't like

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Speaker 1: a probably because it was an ad, you could add

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Speaker 1: that that that images r L to a list of

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Speaker 1: blocked images, right, and it would actually go all the

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Speaker 1: way back to where the source of that image came

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Speaker 1: from and then start blocking other images from that source. Because,

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Speaker 1: of course, if there's one advertiser that happens to run

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Speaker 1: a lot of different campaigns, and back in those early

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Speaker 1: days of the web, there were a few that had

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Speaker 1: lots and lots of clients. You could essentially blanket block

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Speaker 1: a whole list of advertisements, right. It was pretty effective

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Speaker 1: at the time. Yeah, yeah, for for images. Anyway, they

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Speaker 1: did have some downs sides. One of the downside was

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Speaker 1: that it did not actually prevent the web page from

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Speaker 1: loading the image. In fact, that the earliest version, which

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Speaker 1: they called point three. Uh I assume that versions point

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Speaker 1: one and point two were earlier data Yeah yeah, and

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Speaker 1: never were released. But this point three one, it did

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Speaker 1: not prevent the images from loading at all. It would,

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Speaker 1: in fact, first load the entire web page images and all,

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Speaker 1: and then block those ads. Right now, this was an

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Speaker 1: important deal, Like people really wanted to have it blocked,

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Speaker 1: not just you know, from view, but blocked period. So

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Speaker 1: wouldn't download, not just because people thoughts or at least

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Speaker 1: some people thought that advertising was really intrusive and and

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Speaker 1: it decreased their enjoyment of the surfing experience visually annoying,

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Speaker 1: but also was using up precious memory and uh usage bandwidth. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it would take you extra time to download a

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Speaker 1: web page because it had to download all of those assets,

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Speaker 1: including the ads. And if you could turn those ads off,

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Speaker 1: than the web pages would load faster. You know, this

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Speaker 1: is the era of dial up. You know, I remember

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Speaker 1: that era well, uh, not happily, but I do remember

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Speaker 1: it well. I couldn't have find memories of it, not

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Speaker 1: at all. Uh. You know when when someone would would say, hey,

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Speaker 1: you need to go and look, there's this funny picture

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Speaker 1: and you click on it and then six minutes later

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Speaker 1: you go and make yourself a cup of coffee. Right,

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Speaker 1: You're like, well, you know, I'm just gonna go wander

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Speaker 1: off for a bit. But anyway, So this ad block

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Speaker 1: version was limited in its use, but it had potential.

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Speaker 1: And so the next version of ad block came along

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Speaker 1: from someone else. Because Sorenson was interested in creating this tool,

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Speaker 1: but not necessarily interested in continually updating it and uh

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Speaker 1: and and and giving it more features. It was kind

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Speaker 1: of a one off for Sarrenson. So we then have

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Speaker 1: a mysterious figure. So someone by the handle of Rue,

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Speaker 1: who's name I'm still not sure of. Yeah, Ru are

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Speaker 1: you e? As in uh, you know that that spelling

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Speaker 1: not r O O. But the Rou created ad Block

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Speaker 1: zero point four and went in a completely different way

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Speaker 1: used XML binding language also known as x b L.

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Speaker 1: Now that's a web markup language. So HTML is hypertext

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Speaker 1: markup language. This is similar except instead of it telling

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Speaker 1: specifically like a browser, how to display things, it's more

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Speaker 1: about defining specific behaviors of elements that would be displayed

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Speaker 1: in a web page. So it's all about letting a

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Speaker 1: program know what any particular element is supposed to be

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Speaker 1: able to do, so that the computer does that thing

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Speaker 1: when you make the command. So an easy example is

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Speaker 1: a scroll bar. If you were to put a scroll

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Speaker 1: bar within the context of a web page itself, you

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Speaker 1: know this isn't this isn't the browsers scroll bar, but

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Speaker 1: something that's inside the web page. Then you might use

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Speaker 1: XBL to define those behaviors, so you say, when the

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Speaker 1: user drags the scroll bar, this is the thing that's

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Speaker 1: supposed to happen. Now, in this case, they were using

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Speaker 1: XBL to sort of, uh, just prevent again these these

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Speaker 1: display these ads from displaying. But it could prevent more

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Speaker 1: than just images because it was working within the code

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Speaker 1: of the browser. It could also prevent flash and Java objects. Right,

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Speaker 1: And this was another big advance as far as ad

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Speaker 1: blocking was concerned, because anyone who has been using the

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Speaker 1: web for a while knows ads that are just pictures

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Speaker 1: that appear on the top or the side, or within

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Speaker 1: the context of an article or something. That's just a

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Speaker 1: small slice of the types of web advertising we've seen

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Speaker 1: out there. There are a lot of things that have

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Speaker 1: float over ads, float under ads, auto play ads, which boy,

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Speaker 1: are those my favorite. I definitely feel some sympathy here

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Speaker 1: for folks who really get tired of ads that have,

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Speaker 1: you know, a negative impact on your user expect if

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Speaker 1: they're intrusive. Absolutely. I mean, if I go to a

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Speaker 1: website where there's some sort of audio component that I

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Speaker 1: want to listen to, and because I moved my cursor

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Speaker 1: and it goes over a ad panel and then some

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Speaker 1: advertising audio starts playing at the same time, that's clearly

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Speaker 1: not an enjoyable experience. You can't really get around that.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, Yeah, this meant that it was more useful

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Speaker 1: than the point three version of ad block, But it

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Speaker 1: should be said that because it was using a different approach,

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Speaker 1: while it was called ad block zero point four, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily a direct descendant of ad plock ad Block

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Speaker 1: zero point three. And this is where we already have

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Speaker 1: some confusion, right right, further confusion would happen because, um,

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Speaker 1: Ladimir Punt who who we mentioned earlier, was basically unaware

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Speaker 1: of of this update going out and created his own

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Speaker 1: point four Right, So you have Ladimir saying, okay, I

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Speaker 1: know that this this thing that Sarnsen did was useful,

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Speaker 1: but it was very limited. I want to make my

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Speaker 1: own approach and try and create a more versatile, useful

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Speaker 1: platform to block this sort of intrusive advertising. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: started working on it and then was prepared to release

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Speaker 1: it and then discovered through some I have no idea

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Speaker 1: what the tone was from the basis of the history

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Speaker 1: that that that Pollent wrote, I would like to imagine

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Speaker 1: that Rue was a little miffed. Great was the message

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Speaker 1: thereof and that um and that Vladimir found out that

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Speaker 1: he couldn't release it as a point for because there

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Speaker 1: was already a point for. So now comes the discussion

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Speaker 1: of whether or not Vladimir's work should be incorporated into

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Speaker 1: a point five version. So keep in mind that while

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Speaker 1: this is all going on, Firefox itself is continuing to

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Speaker 1: slowly release updates, which necessitates that browser extensions be updated

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Speaker 1: as well, because exactly, yeah, um, so this was not

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Speaker 1: you know, just an academic discussion of should this go

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Speaker 1: forward or not. It needed to keep developing for it

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Speaker 1: to be useful, so his approach was to look at

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Speaker 1: content policies to both predict and block ads, which ended

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Speaker 1: up being an advance over the previous versions because it

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Speaker 1: was finally allowing the user to have these ads blocked

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Speaker 1: before the page even loaded. So now we get into

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Speaker 1: that that era where things can be sped up because

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Speaker 1: you don't need to load all the assets. He also

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Speaker 1: had this discussion with Rue about what needs to be done.

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Speaker 1: They decided to kind of collaborate, but according to uh

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Speaker 1: Polance history, he got very frustrated that RU would kind

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Speaker 1: of piecemeal pick the bits that Vladimir had created and

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Speaker 1: then ignore everything else. And Vladimir felt that a lot

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Speaker 1: of the things he had contributed were being ignored, and

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Speaker 1: that UH and that some of the things he had

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Speaker 1: made we're being used in ways he had not intended.

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Speaker 1: There was one in particular ways that users were complaining

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Speaker 1: about this particular interface, and the problem was, I had

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Speaker 1: never intended users to be activating this interface. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: meant for. But now it's part of what because I'm

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Speaker 1: not the one who I don't own ad block. I'm

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Speaker 1: not implementing these changes myself, and so that became kind

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Speaker 1: of a sore subject. So you move forward to two

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Speaker 1: thousand five, and no one had really worked on ad block. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that there was still some of that xbl stuff involved,

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Speaker 1: and and some of Ladimir's approaches were in there. He

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Speaker 1: was kind of a mishmash. It was like a Frankenstein's

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Speaker 1: Monster version of the of what what each person like

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Speaker 1: rou and Ladimir had both had in mind. But out

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Speaker 1: of this grew um what was going to be called

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Speaker 1: ad block Plus. Yeah. This is when a fellow named

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Speaker 1: Michael McDonald who used the handle mc m came along

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Speaker 1: and he created a new version going back to point

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Speaker 1: three as sort of the point of inspiration with enhanced features.

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Speaker 1: He did call it ad block Plus. And at this

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Speaker 1: point one of the things that was added was this

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Speaker 1: ability for users to white list certain file sources so

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Speaker 1: that they would still get those shown to them, right,

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Speaker 1: white white listing being the opposite of blacklisting, and he's

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Speaker 1: certifying that a certain thing or person or entity is

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Speaker 1: acceptable exactly. So instead of just having a giant X

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Speaker 1: over any advertising, this would allow you to be more selective,

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Speaker 1: so you could say, no, I want to see these

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Speaker 1: particular types of ads, these ads are okay. So Vladimir

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Speaker 1: and Rue continued there discussion about what should be ad block,

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Speaker 1: and Ladimir even went so far as to offer to rewrite,

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Speaker 1: uh the zero point five version of ad block and

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Speaker 1: then adding the new features as well as try and

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Speaker 1: tweak some of the stuff that he felt was clunky

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Speaker 1: or not user friendly. But there was more disagreement between

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Speaker 1: Rue and Ladimir, and then eventually Ladimir contacted McDonald mc

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Speaker 1: m about ad Block Plus. Yeah, and mcm said, you

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Speaker 1: know you can, you can come on over, you can

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Speaker 1: come on over here, because I don't really want to

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Speaker 1: to forever be developing this this extension, just like you

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Speaker 1: know Starnsen did years ago. He you know, Sartinson said, No,

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Speaker 1: I made this thing, but I don't want to have

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Speaker 1: to keep making it. H And especially at the time

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Speaker 1: Firefox was going through this kind of like update every

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Speaker 1: other day sort of process, it was really rapid. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So McDonald said, you know, I really don't have the

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Speaker 1: time and effort that to to be the steward of

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Speaker 1: this extension. So so Latimir, if you want to take it,

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Speaker 1: take it and Latimer said, yeah, okay, fine. So in

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Speaker 1: January two thousand and six, they launched ad block Plus

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Speaker 1: zero point six. So again, the versions are starting to

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Speaker 1: get a little confusing because this ad block Plus was

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Speaker 1: not directly connected to ad Block. It existed as his

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Speaker 1: own thing at the same time. So we have two

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Speaker 1: different versions going on, two different approaches um and two

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Speaker 1: different communities of users. So then Pilot decides he'll he'll

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Speaker 1: keep on working on ad block Plus and he wanted

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Speaker 1: to try. You know, it's not that he hated the

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Speaker 1: old ad block. He actually tried several times to address

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Speaker 1: issues because as the the extension got older and less relevant,

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Speaker 1: it also became clear that there were some security vulnerabilities,

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Speaker 1: and so he said, listen, guys, I found these vulnerabilities.

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Speaker 1: You really should patch them. You need to. You need

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Speaker 1: to update ad block so that this doesn't remain a

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Speaker 1: vulnerability for users. And then it got to a point

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Speaker 1: where it's like, really, I mean, I I can help

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Speaker 1: do this if you need to. But it was kind

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Speaker 1: of one of those things where ad Block just sort

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Speaker 1: sort of began to die out at that point. In

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Speaker 1: ad Block Plus was the it's wrong to say the

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Speaker 1: winner because it wasn't like it was a real battle,

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Speaker 1: but it's the survivor of the two. Yeah yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was about to say it sounds like like internet Darwinism.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, it kind of is. So h then you

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Speaker 1: get into I got really snarky with this note, y'all,

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Speaker 1: But I'm going to go ahead and include it because schadenfreude. No.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand seven, PC World, the magazine named ad

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Speaker 1: Block Plus one of the one best products of two

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Speaker 1: thousand seven. The reason why I felt the need to

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Speaker 1: include this is because today PC World is online only.

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Speaker 1: It ended its print uh format in two thousand thirteen,

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Speaker 1: and now it depends very heavily on the online format,

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Speaker 1: you know, the one that is sported. Yeah, so um,

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Speaker 1: I did. I didn't want to mention though, that that

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Speaker 1: it's certainly not the only award that ad Block Plus

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Speaker 1: is one. Um. For example, it also nabbed the best

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Speaker 1: Firefox extension from Lennox Magazine, in which, by the way,

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Speaker 1: you can still get in print, So bully for them,

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Speaker 1: how about that. So then we move up to December eight,

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Speaker 1: two thousand nine, and boy, we just we just got

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Speaker 1: to the point where we narrowed it down. Ad Block

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Speaker 1: Plus was the only player in the game. It was

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Speaker 1: gonna be so much easier to talk about this for

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Speaker 1: the rest of this podcast. And then Google made an

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Speaker 1: announcement which led to a whole bunch more mass happening. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in fact, we'll talk about that in just a moment,

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Speaker 1: but before we get into this fun Google let part

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Speaker 1: of the discussion, let's take a quick break to thank

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Speaker 1: our sponsor. Don't block our ad Okay, So December eight,

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Speaker 1: two thousand nine, and this is the first time where

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Speaker 1: we can actually put a specific date on one of

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Speaker 1: these things. You know, again to evelopers don't necessarily write

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Speaker 1: down stuff for historical records, which, guys, you've got to

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Speaker 1: start doing that. Yeah, seriously, everyone get on that. I know. Well, actually,

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Speaker 1: I mean everyone is on that at this point because

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Speaker 1: of the popularity of blogging and micro blogging. But at

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Speaker 1: any rate, Right, this is when Michael Gunlock developed his

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Speaker 1: own ad blocker called ad block with a capital B

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Speaker 1: this time. Right, that makes it totally different obviously spelled

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Speaker 1: the same way as the original ad block, except that

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Speaker 1: the B is capitalized. Like you said, Look, it's the Internet.

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Speaker 1: Things can be case sensitive. I just think that's funny

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Speaker 1: that you already have a product called ad block Plus,

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Speaker 1: so clearly what you want to come out with is

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Speaker 1: one called ad block. But you know, again, these are

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Speaker 1: open source approaches. It's not like these these different developers

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Speaker 1: are all getting into it in order to make book

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Speaker 1: who's amount of money. It's stopped something that they felt

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Speaker 1: was necessary to extend this functionality, and it's a passion thing, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: So this is totally separate from the original ad block

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Speaker 1: and also add block plus. And originally this was an

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Speaker 1: extension for Google Chrome. And in fact, the reason why

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Speaker 1: I said December eight, two thousand nine, is that's also

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Speaker 1: the very first day that Google allowed extensions in Chrome,

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Speaker 1: only in the beta version of Chrome. Actually at the time,

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Speaker 1: it would roll out extensions for for Chrome as a

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Speaker 1: as a whole a couple of months later. But you know,

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Speaker 1: they made this announcement and gun Lash checked to see

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Speaker 1: whether there was already an ad block for Chrome, and

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Speaker 1: specifically ad block plus for Chrome, because he really liked

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Speaker 1: that block plus, it was his favorite Firefox extension. And

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Speaker 1: he saw that there wasn't and started coding one like

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Speaker 1: on the spot. Yep, and so uh and now these

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Speaker 1: days you can actually get it from multiple UH browsers,

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Speaker 1: not just Google Chrome. Also there's a version for Safari

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Speaker 1: and one for Opera. Ad Block Plus, by the way,

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Speaker 1: also available on multiple browsers, including Chrome, Safari, UH as

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Speaker 1: well as Internet Explorer and of course Firefox where it

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Speaker 1: got started. So now we're covering pretty much all the basis,

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Speaker 1: and some of these you know you're you're limited on choice,

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Speaker 1: Like if you're using Opera, Uh hello, Now, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know that the Opera fans out there are big

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Speaker 1: passionate fans. They love that browser. I just I think

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Speaker 1: there might be three of you. But hey, if you're

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Speaker 1: one of those three, write us and tell us why

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Speaker 1: Opera is the best, because I would I would love

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Speaker 1: to hear it. I've I've used it a couple of

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Speaker 1: times and that's all I know about it. So at

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Speaker 1: any rate, UH, you had ad block going under version

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Speaker 1: numbers like two point oh, being the first one that's

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Speaker 1: being released for actual use, So we're no longer at

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Speaker 1: the zero point whatever. For ad block, it's it's on

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Speaker 1: a totally different path. Again, it's not really connected to

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Speaker 1: those other ones other than the fact that the end

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Speaker 1: result is it blocks ads. Right, it's supposed to concept

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Speaker 1: so it was written from an entirely separate bit of

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Speaker 1: code exactly. So. Uh. One of my favorite stories about

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Speaker 1: the the ad block extension is what happened on April

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Speaker 1: Fool's Day two thousand twelve. So this day, the developer

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Speaker 1: decided to do something playful by tweaking the code a

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Speaker 1: little bit, so instead of just blocking ads so that

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Speaker 1: you don't see them, it replaced ads with the Internet's

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Speaker 1: favorite things, little cats. So it became cat block for

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Speaker 1: a day. And in fact, it got so popular that

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Speaker 1: and people loved it so much that they went ahead

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Speaker 1: and added cat block as an as an optional add on. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you could subscribe and get cat block if you wanted

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Speaker 1: everything to permanently everything, all the ads to permanently be

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Speaker 1: switched over to cats, not not the entire and not

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Speaker 1: just a cat browser. Although someone's got to have done that,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure, right, I'm positive anyway, Yeah, so uh interesting

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah. So. Features of good launches ad block are

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Speaker 1: that it can it can block resources in Google Chrome

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Speaker 1: so that the elements won't even load in the browser, right, um,

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Speaker 1: and that includes uh, not just pictures but also flash elements.

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Speaker 1: It can block ads and videos like if if YouTube

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Speaker 1: plays an ad before a video, it can just wipe

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Speaker 1: that from creation, right ye, at least as far as

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Speaker 1: your concern. Um. The current version I believe is available

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Speaker 1: in more than thirty languages. Yep, yep, it's got international

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Speaker 1: capabilities built right into it. Also a note of interest

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Speaker 1: in good Luck launched a successful Crown funded campaign to

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Speaker 1: and and follow me closely here, kids create ads for

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Speaker 1: ad block so that ad block can block more ads.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure you're talking about bob blah blaws law blogs.

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Speaker 1: That's that's what it sounded like to me. It was

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Speaker 1: that the campaign was to advertise his his service ad Block,

396
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 1: because not that many people use it. I mean I

397
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Speaker 1: think that as as of the campaign, he was saying

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Speaker 1: that only three and ten Internet users had any kind

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Speaker 1: of ad blocking software at all. Um. And so he

400
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Speaker 1: thought that, you know, more people need to know about

401
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Speaker 1: this thing awareness problem, right right, Yeah, and and that

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Speaker 1: you know, if people knew so, right, So he launched

403
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Speaker 1: this campaign and yeah, they made enough money to like

404
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Speaker 1: put up a billboard in Times Square. Yeah. So they

405
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: took an analog an ad blocking company paid for an

406
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Speaker 1: advertisement and what is one of the world's most well

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00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: known advertising Mecca's in meat space where no one can

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Speaker 1: block it. Yeah, okay, I'm my brain is hurting right beautiful. Well, anyway,

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Speaker 1: if you're wondering, hey, what happened? The ad block plus

410
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Speaker 1: kept on keeping on. Yeah. In two thou ten, it

411
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Speaker 1: would receive an anonymous donation that was generous enough to

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Speaker 1: allow Ladimir to quit his day job and work full

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Speaker 1: time on the object for two entire years. Yeah. He

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Speaker 1: during that time expanded it for use with all of

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Speaker 1: the browsers that we were talking about a moment ago.

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Speaker 1: Oh and also Firefox Mobile and Android. I didn't even

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Speaker 1: mention the mobile operating system right, um. And then inn

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Speaker 1: would incorporate what became a very controversial feature, um uh

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Speaker 1: developer lad white listing yea. So you know, the earlier

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Speaker 1: white listing we were talking about was about users defining Okay,

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Speaker 1: I want to see this particular content every personal user

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Speaker 1: using this ad blocking software. This is on the developer side,

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Speaker 1: this is before it ever gets to the user. And

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Speaker 1: the idea was that the philosophy was kind of interesting

425
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Speaker 1: to me. The the premise is that people want ad

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Speaker 1: block because they don't want annoying, intrusive ads. However, a

427
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Speaker 1: lot of people still want to be able to support

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Speaker 1: the sites that they go to, and they realize that

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Speaker 1: those sites depend on AD revenue exactly. So in order

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Speaker 1: to make sure they are not denying these these different

431
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: sites that add revenue, that they are allowing their participating

432
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: in this kind of marketplace where we can have people

433
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 1: paid for the work that they're doing and other people

434
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: can enjoy that work. Ad block plus took a kind

435
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 1: of upon itself to define what a good ad is

436
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: versus not a good ad. Yeah. The the whole thing

437
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: grew out of a partnership between Ladimir and uh person

438
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 1: by the name of Till Fieda who's who's an online

439
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 1: marketer who agreed that lots of online ads are really terrible.

440
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 1: Um but but right, But he didn't want to see

441
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: the revenue from online ads dry up entirely. Yeah, So

442
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 1: it's kind of an idea that ads that follow a

443
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: certain set of rules are okay, right if if they're

444
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: not um, if they're not preventing you from accessing the

445
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 1: content that you went to that page to read, or

446
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: or auto playing sound which is terrible the time, or

447
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: video or or otherwise just coming up the works in

448
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: such an annoying way that that you want to block

449
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: that thing. Yeah. In fact, ideally according to this that

450
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 1: has very strict size restrictions that you know, ads have

451
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: to be a certain size and write all that down.

452
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 1: But there ideally our text only, which advertisers do not

453
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: care for. Uh you mean it's you know, it's not

454
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: as eye catching as something like so, but according to

455
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 1: the white listing approach, it's supposed to be text only,

456
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 1: none of that AutoPlay stuff, whether it's sound or video.

457
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 1: It's supposed to be um, you know, like you said,

458
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be unobtrusive. So it's not supposed to

459
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: cover up things you can't have like a scrolling or

460
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: scrolling or yeah yeah or reform all the words to

461
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: spell out this product is awesome. You know, it's not

462
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: supposed to do any of that kind of stuff. Uh.

463
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 1: And that if you played by those rules and if

464
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: you filled out some forms and stuff, you could work

465
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: with ad block because why to get onto this white

466
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 1: listed program? So like a company that would provide advertising,

467
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 1: because you know, the companies that you see advertising online,

468
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,479
Speaker 1: they're usually not the ones that are handling the actual ads.

469
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: It's usually an ad agency there are some companies that

470
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: have their own ad departments, but a lot of them

471
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 1: will go to a third party. So if these third

472
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,199
Speaker 1: parties partner with ad block plus and create ads in

473
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: this way, those ads would in theory not be automatically

474
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 1: blocked by the ad blocker. However, if if as a user,

475
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: you wanted to still say I don't want to see

476
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: any ads. I don't care about the revenue thing, I

477
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 1: don't care. All I want is all the free existence,

478
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 1: you could actually turn that option off so that you

479
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: it was automatically on by default, but you could turn

480
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: it off in the settings and uh and block all

481
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 1: ads whether they are on the quote unquote good ad

482
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: list or not. Also, it was kind of a um

483
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: honor system approach. It still is kind of an honor

484
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: system approach because ad block plus doesn't have an automated

485
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: way to make sure that the ads that are submitted

486
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: in fact follow those criteria. Right. Once a company gets

487
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: gets white listed, all of their ads are white listed,

488
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: and it's up to the developers and also to the

489
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: users of the program to pick out ads that they

490
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: still find offensive and submit a report about them. Right. So,

491
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: if as a user, you see something on a web

492
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: page and you think, wait, that doesn't fit the criteria,

493
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: and I've totally got ad blocker plus on and it

494
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: should be blocking all this stuff. You can report the

495
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: ad and then ad block plus could take action and say, hey, guys,

496
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: this isn't following the rules that we said. Of course,

497
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: there was still pushback from from users about this, who

498
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: said that, um, you know, first of all, they didn't

499
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: agree with a group of developers making this choice for

500
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: them of what was and wasn't acceptable um. And second

501
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: of all, that there was a potential that ad block

502
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: plus was getting paid to serve ads to them. Yeah,

503
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: there was a blogger named um Sasha Palenberg who first

504
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: said ad block plus was an advertising mafia, that this

505
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,719
Speaker 1: put them in charge, like they were the ones who

506
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: could say what ads are showing on the web and

507
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: which ones aren't effectively at least to the audience that

508
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: uses ad block Plus. And then someone who has not

509
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: been named as far as I can tell, an anonymous

510
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: person alleged that the developers of ad block plus had

511
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: demanded a share of ad revenue in order to white

512
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: list ads from his or her site. We don't know

513
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: who this person is. We don't know their gender or anything.

514
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: But according to this one person who presumably works for

515
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: an advertising company, ad block plus was saying, okay, well,

516
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: if you share a third of your money that you

517
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: make from these ads, then you can totally be on

518
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,959
Speaker 1: the list. Um, not a lot. And not everyone who

519
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: applies to get on the list makes it right. Most

520
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: people don't, and ad block has has. Ad Block plus

521
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: rather has said a lot about this issue online and

522
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: in blogs and interviews. Um. They they published a uh

523
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: clarifying piece in October state that it rejects over half

524
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: of its applicants based on unacceptable ad practices right out

525
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: the door um and that overall it only has accepted

526
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: about nine point five percent of its applicants to the program. Meanwhile,

527
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: over at ad block you have the founder saying, hey, uh,

528
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: I'm sure if I had an option, they're saying, show

529
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: me ads that don't suck. Those are his words that

530
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: my users would opt in. But it doesn't actually have

531
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: that functionality. This would become so controversial that ad block

532
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: plus actually ended up, and not not just among advertisers.

533
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: Clearly it's controversial to them, but also to users, users

534
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: who said, hey, I don't want this to be on

535
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: by default, I don't want to have to go into

536
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: my settings and change it. They ended up for king

537
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: ad block plus because it couldn't get more confusing, right uh,

538
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: and created ad block Edge, which doesn't have any of

539
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: the white listing features. It's essentially this is this is

540
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: just going to block everything unless you manually go in

541
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: and tell it to write UM and And a brief

542
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: point going back to that monetary issue UM. In that

543
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: company blog from ad block Plus, basically they said that

544
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: less than ten percent of the applications that they've advanced

545
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: to the final stages UM were submitted with some kind

546
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: of monetary benefit to ad block plus. So some were

547
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: submitted with monetary benefit. Yes, that just raises more questions. Really,

548
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: I don't know that I would call that so clarifying anymore.

549
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: I think there needs to be a clarification of the

550
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: clarifying statement. But at any rate, this is UH is

551
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: beyond just the issue of I don't want to see

552
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: ads or I find this intrusive. There there are other

553
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: thing considerations that are legitimate that people have because today

554
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: the way the web works, there's a lot of different

555
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: ways to kind of gather information about users, even in

556
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: ways that don't necessarily name who you are, but if

557
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: there's enough of your behavior there, they can totally tell

558
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: who you are. They can and they can certainly track

559
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: you anonymous user number, you know x online as much

560
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: as they want to, and people do continually, and a

561
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: lot of that tracking software is packaged along with ad

562
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: serving software, so so you know, and these are are

563
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: modern times of big data. It's kind of an issue.

564
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: Um As of March, ad block plus claim to have

565
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: the capacity to block eight thousand, six hundred different trackers,

566
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,239
Speaker 1: you know, different cookies and scripts and all that other

567
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: stuff that runs in the background of sites that you visit,

568
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: collecting continual information about you and your activities and your

569
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: habits to either use or to sell to other companies,

570
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: you know, companies that are sifting through it for whatever

571
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: potentially nefarious purposes they choose to or just other advertisers.

572
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: It may not be so much nefarious, but it could

573
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: just mean that you're going to get yet more ads

574
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: right right, and and those weird creepy ads that show

575
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: that they know what you've been looking at on Amazon

576
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 1: dot com. Right, Like when you go to Facebook and

577
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: you notice that all the ads on Facebook somehow match

578
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: things that you had just been browsing on a totally

579
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: different site. What really confuses me is when they serve

580
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: me ads of something that I just purchased because I'm like,

581
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: I I did like that thing. Yeah, I already thought it.

582
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: I bought the thing that you told me to. I'm

583
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: not going to buy it again. I'm not going to

584
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: click there. Yeah, that's what confuses me is when I

585
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: get the ones for enormous muscles, because y'all, I don't

586
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: know if you see me recently, but I mean you're

587
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: basically already already human perfection. Actually, I mean, like you know,

588
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: I don't so much have a six pack as I

589
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: have a raging kicker. That's what I've got going on.

590
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: But anyway, so to get down to the the side

591
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: that we're on. So we're Lauren and I. Obviously we

592
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: both work for a company that's a web based company.

593
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: We get, uh, you know there there are ads that

594
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: run on how stuff works dot com. Absolutely, and so

595
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: we run ads in our podcast. Said, it's a different

596
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: kind of things, but still it's it's that's how that's

597
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: that's one of the main ways we generate revenue. Yeah,

598
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: that that is what allows us to have jobs. Right,

599
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 1: So if everyone were to block it and it got

600
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: to a point where advertisers said, well this this isn't

601
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: working because now we can no longer make any money.

602
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: Like essentially, if you pull the rug out from underneath

603
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: that entire industry, you uh, it forces everyone to have

604
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: to rethink how do I make money? Because if I

605
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: can't make money, I'm not going to do this. I'm

606
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 1: gonna go do something else where I can make money. Sure,

607
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 1: so you know, are you going to put your content

608
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: behind paywalls of of various tiers or are you going

609
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,439
Speaker 1: to rely on donations or merchandise? Uh? And and none

610
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 1: of those are as easy, I guess as just selling

611
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: ad spaces, right, Yeah, And it all depends. Like there's

612
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: some larger organizations that have a historical following that could

613
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 1: do things like shift to a paywall method and still

614
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 1: stay afloat. There are others that cannot, just as there

615
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 1: are examples of uh companies that or or individuals who

616
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: exist on patronage. There's there's the site Patreon now where

617
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: you can pledge a certain amount per month for people

618
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: who are doing things and a crowdfunding You know that

619
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: the controversial penny Arcade, crowdfunder that that basically let them

620
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: run their site for a year. So I mean there

621
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: there are other ways, but it's not necessarily something that's

622
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: within the grasp of everyone. So sure, you know, I

623
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: think that the general recommendation is too if you like

624
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: a site, uh white list it and and let let

625
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 1: it serve you ads, right and uh so yeah, I

626
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: mean this needs to be an ongoing conversation between users

627
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: and advertisers and the companies that want to advertise, right,

628
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: because like I said, most most companies are saying, we

629
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: want people to be encouraged to buy our goods and

630
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 1: services or to at least have a more increased awareness

631
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: of them. We would rather that increased awareness doesn't come

632
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: along with Oh, those are those irritating so and so's

633
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,879
Speaker 1: that always block it whenever I want to watch such

634
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: and such. All right, right, I think it's really interesting

635
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: that in all of this, Google, which is an ad company,

636
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: don't don't ever think it's a search company, because that's

637
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 1: not what they're there for. Um. You know, they allowed

638
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 1: they chose to allow ad blocking extensions for for Chrome

639
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 1: for its browser. Um. Speaking about the Jonathan Rosenberg, the

640
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: senior vice president of product management as of two thousand nine,

641
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: wrote in an incompany letter um that providing users with

642
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: options can can really only grow and enrich the Internet

643
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: community at large. Yeah, it's a very interesting take. I mean,

644
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: particularly from someone who, like like you said, is working

645
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: for essentially an ad company. You know, they they absolutely

646
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: didn't have to do that, and I think it's pretty

647
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: pretty beautiful that they do. I have a quote actually

648
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 1: from another Google employee, one um Linus Upson, who as

649
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 1: of at least was Google's engineering direct about this entire issue.

650
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: He said, it's unlikely ad blockers are going to get

651
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 1: to the level where they imperil the advertising market, because

652
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 1: if advertising is so annoying that a large segment of

653
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: the population wants to block it, then advertising should get

654
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: less annoying. Yeah, I agree with that. I think that, uh,

655
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: you know, the best way of going about this is

656
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: to design ads that are that definitely advertise your product

657
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: or service, but don't do so at the expense of

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00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: the user experience. It's really I mean, that's easy to say,

659
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: it's really hard to do because but but you know,

660
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: I kind of appreciate that it's pushing the design impetus

661
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 1: back to the people responsible for it. It's saying like,

662
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: don't create bad stuff. If you want people to not

663
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: block it, don't don't go with the easy approach of

664
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: using something that blocks their view of what they're trying

665
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: to get at, or something that's so eye catching that

666
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 1: you literally can't pay attention to anything else on the page.

667
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 1: Right if it if it looks like a MySpace page,

668
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: let's the old school MySpace. By the way, it's like

669
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: cities geo c s that would have been a better

670
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: way of putting it. Yeah, if it looks like a

671
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,760
Speaker 1: geo cities page, you may want to revisit that unless

672
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,439
Speaker 1: you're doing it specifically for the irony and it's going

673
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,399
Speaker 1: on a site that that would both that would fit

674
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 1: in well. But at any rate, that's our discussion about

675
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 1: ad block and ad block and ad block Plus and

676
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 1: ad block edge. Uh. We hope that our next topic

677
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: will have less forking. Maybe some maybe some some knives

678
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,919
Speaker 1: or spoons will be involved. So we're going to wrap

679
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 1: this up. Guys. If you have any suggestions for future

680
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: episodes of tech Stuff, let us know. Send us a

681
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: message on well, you can send it on Twitter, you

682
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: can send a message over on Facebook, or that tumbler

683
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: thing that everyone's talking about, all the kids are doing.

684
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 1: We have to handle tech stuff hs W at all

685
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 1: three of those. Or you can send us a good

686
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: old fashioned email, all right, address this tech stuff at

687
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 1: Discovery dot com, and we will talk to you again

688
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: really soon. For more on this and thousands of other topics,

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00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: visit how staff works dot com