WEBVTT - Stephen Miller Brings Trump Crusade to the Courts 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:07.960 This is Bloomberg Law with June Brussel from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:14.040 Stephen Miller, the Trump aide known as the architect of 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:18.599 the former president's anti immigrant policies, is reviving as cultural 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.480 crusade as the head of a new activist legal group. 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:25.919 America First Legal is a conservative nonprofit with disdain for 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:29.640 the radical left and a wide ranging plan to challenge 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:33.559 the Biden administration in court. The group has already scored 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:37.879 some early victories, including in lawsuits accusing the federal government 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:41.800 of discriminating against white business owners. Joining me is Bloomberg 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:45.919 Legal reporter Eric Larson tell us who Stephen Miller is 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:49.280 for those who may not know so. Stephen Miller is 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:53.600 a conservative political operative who served as a senior White 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:56.680 House aide to Donald Trump UM and also was a 0:00:56.760 --> 0:01:00.720 speechwriter for the president's UM. He is known as the 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:03.560 sort of the architect of some of Trump's most anti 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:07.759 immigrant policies, things like the Muslim ban and the family 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:11.160 separation policies and some of those really divisive policies that 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:14.840 really riled up a lot of Democrats. Did he start 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:19.520 America First Legal? He did. It was just started in 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:24.959 April UM. He did so with the blessing of Donald Trump, 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:28.440 who issued a press release praising his effort and the 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:33.640 opening of America First Legal. So it is he's leading it, uh, 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:38.800 and he's doing so with several other former Trump administration 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:41.720 officials who have joined him in the effort, including a 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:46.319 former acting US Attorney General Whittaker, and some other folks. 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:49.960 He's not a lawyer, right, No, he's not a lawyer, 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:53.560 but he he has a former Justice Department lawyer during 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:57.040 the Trump administration, Gene Hamilton's who was known for working 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:01.160 on a lot of immigration UM policies under Trump. UM 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:04.080 is one of the lead lawyers at America First Legal. 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:09.080 So they are established right wing legal advocacy groups such 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:14.840 as Alliance Defending Freedom and Judicial Watch. So why another group, Well, 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:17.680 that's a good question. Some folks that I spoke with 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:22.000 in the conservative nonprofit group there said that even though 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:24.360 there are these other groups that they still feel like 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:28.240 they're outguns by UM left leaning organizations like the American 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.160 Civil Liberties Union. You know, they want to see something 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.200 that rises to that level. Even though America First Legal 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:37.120 has just started earlier this year. That's how they kind 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:40.400 of already wanted to be seen as really going after 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:44.399 the Biden administration on a range of policies the same 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:46.800 way that the A. C. L. You did um during 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.359 the Trump administration. So what are some of the aims 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:54.040 or maybe I should say targets of the group. They're 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:59.360 pretty wide ranging. Started out with lawsuits against the administration 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:03.120 challenging racial equity programs that had been built into the 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:09.000 Pandemic Relief bill that had earmarked billions of dollars to 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:13.560 be prioritized toward miority owned restaurants in one provision and 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:18.000 minority owned farms and ranches in another. And he sued 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:20.840 filed separate lawsuits over both of those and actually one 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:26.120 injunctions preliminary injunctions against the administration in those cases which 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:29.639 are still pending. But he's also sued over the Biden 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:36.080 administrations returned to policies that banned discrimination against people based 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:40.720 on sexual orientation or gender identity in healthcare and housing 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:44.360 and alike. UM. And you know that's just the beginning. 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:48.680 There are several other aspects of the administration that he 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.000 seems to be eyeing, based on the press releases they've 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.400 been putting out and the Freedom of Information Act requests 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:56.760 that they've been filing and highlighting on their website. You 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.760 said they had scored victories. These are cases where they 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:02.880 can pick the judge or at least the courthouse that 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:06.680 will be hearing the case. Yes, they've been filing suits 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:10.640 in Texas where they can, but also UM in Washington 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:14.200 d C. Federal Court UM. In the two cases where 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:17.240 they did get these preliminary injunctions injunctions, granted those were 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.920 in Texas UM. It was a Republican appointed judge who 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:24.320 did that, But not all of their cases are before 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:27.760 UM Republican appointed judges, but so far they've had pretty 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.440 good luck with those. In the suits they have filed 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:34.360 in Texas. Another case where they didn't get an injunction UM, 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:38.640 but they did get a preliminary ruling UM where the 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:43.520 judge you know, seemed to praise or side with what 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:47.919 they were saying about the Biden administration's handling of undocumented 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.160 migrant children at the border. UM. That was another one 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:55.400 of the first lawsuits that a fl filed, accusing the 0:04:55.560 --> 0:05:01.440 Biden administration of allowing undocumented migrant children in housing in 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.719 the US even though they might have COVID nineteen was 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:07.880 his argument that it was a health violation and the 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:10.960 judge in that case, UM said that that, uh, he 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:14.720 agreed essentially with that case. In that case, did they 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:18.880 do it in conjunction with the Texas Attorney General? They did, 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.640 And the Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, a very outspoken 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:25.799 Republican of course, who has challenged Biden on a range 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.039 of issues. Um, and it is very critical of the 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:32.120 administration on his own right, Um, you know, filed that lawsuit. 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.919 It's challenges provisions of the Migrant Protection Protocol, which was 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:39.040 the Trump policies that Biden tried to walk away from 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:42.200 and is having trouble doing so. And so a f l. 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:44.440 One of their first clients was the state of Texas, 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:46.720 which in a way isn't too surprising because they're extremely 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:52.279 ideologically aligned. Eric tell us more about Miller's suit challenging 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:57.240 pandemic aid earmarked for minority owned farms. America First Legal 0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:01.200 filed a couple of lawsuits over provideds of built the 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:04.080 massive stimulus built passed by Congress and included a few 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:08.280 equity programs in it that tried to essentially right some 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:12.320 wrongs that have been done previously by prioritizing some money 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:15.720 for minority owned restaurants as well as minority owned farms 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:20.119 and branches. And in these two lawsuits, Stephen Miller's group 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:24.880 claims that it's discrimination, racial discrimination against white people that 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:27.440 he says is banned by the Civil Rights Act, which 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:30.080 is kind of interesting that he's you know, the complaint 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:34.560 itself was actually fairly short, but it included some language 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.840 and references that you would normally see in a suit 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:41.440 alleging racial discrimination against racial minorities. So it's kind of 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:44.960 turning it around and using it sort of against these 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:48.920 minorities interests, UM, which really wasn't lost on the people, uh, 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.760 some of the people who I interviewed for the story. UM. 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:55.159 I interviewed the John Boyd is the president and founder 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:58.440 of the National Black Farmers Association. He filed a motion 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.080 to intervene in one of those cases. Than he he 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:03.960 won that permission, and he says that it's just flat 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.240 out discrimination, that that the real discrimination here is with 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:11.520 Stephen Miller's lawsuit. UM, that they're trying to pretend that 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:14.520 there was never any discrimination in the past and therefore 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:16.600 there should be no measures taken now to fix it 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:20.280 in the present. Did a f L respond to this, 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:23.320 I see that their website says it's committed to fighting 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:27.320 for all Americans, regardless of race, color, religion, or creed. 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:31.000 That's correct. I included that in my story because unfortunately 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:35.080 they didn't respond to repeated requests for comments. I reached 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:37.800 out to them numerous times by phone and email, also 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.720 to their PR firm, and they just didn't respond. Although 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:43.880 they do make regular appearances on on Fox News and 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.960 news Max and O A n UM where they spread 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:50.560 this message, and of course it's we have to remember 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:53.840 that this is a nonprofit and they're actively raising money 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:58.520 at all times. Do most of their cases focus on immigration, 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:02.760 you know, I really don't think so. I think that that, UM, 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:06.280 you know, is an obvious interest of Stephen Miller, and 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:09.640 they do have one or two cases related to that, 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:13.840 But really they're looking at the whole universe of conservative 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:19.920 concerns UM, you know, gender identity, UM, LGBT rights, even 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:23.280 critical race theory, UM. Some of the Freedom of Information 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.320 Act requests that they've filed or demanding, you know, information 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:30.920 from the Biden administration about why they stopped investigating the 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:34.720 source of COVID nineteen UM. You know, they even sued 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:40.920 Biden for forcing Russ Vott off of that naval board UM, 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.319 and he's a he's a member of af L, one 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:46.400 of the directors. Uh. So there's really just a really 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:50.240 wide range of UM legal issues that they're looking at here, 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:53.120 and it's not just immigration. Do we know how much 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:56.240 funding they have and who is funding them? We don't, 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:58.280 you know. I would have definitely loved to have asked 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:02.600 them that question to find out UM, but it's too early. 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:05.800 It's they're too new to have any UM filings, so 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:08.520 we really just haven't have no way of knowing. Unfortunately, 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:11.320 because we're a new organization, they seem to have a 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:15.000 lot of litigation going on, right. I mean, it's you know, 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:17.640 anything is possible. Of course, we know one person who 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:21.839 has plenty of money, that's Donald Trump. They always could 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.560 have gotten some from from him, but that's just speculation. 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:27.880 But they are doing a lot of real work and 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:31.600 that does cost a lot of money. UM, so one 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:33.520 can assume that they at least have something that they 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:37.480 started out with. Is Trump a visible supporter of the group, 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:41.000 He is UM only in that Uh. The very first 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:44.680 press release that went out in April, UM quoted President 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:49.960 Trump praising Stephen Miller by name and saying that the 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:54.320 left was out funding us in courts us being the right, 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:57.199 and that we needed something like a fl to counter 0:09:57.280 --> 0:09:59.960 that movement and to to take the Biden administration to court. 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:02.320 Trump spelled that all out and said that Stephen Miller 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:04.880 was the guy to do it. You write that prevailing 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:09.320 in court might not be the primary reason for the group, Yeah, 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:11.839 that was That was one theory from someone I spoke with. 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:14.640 You know, they see the names involved, they see there's 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.439 quite a bit of evidence of people in Trump's orbit. 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:20.520 It's sort of now that he's out of office, finding 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.240 ways to sort of cash in using his name and 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:27.040 tapping into his huge support Um. You know, he has 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:29.559 millions of supporters all around the country, and a lot 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:31.640 of them are very angry, and a lot of them 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:33.840 are really despised the left. And if you say and 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.000 the right things, do the right things, you can really 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.640 capture their attention and get them to open their wallets. 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.560 So there's some you know, some cynicism around that. Of course, 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:44.880 they probably would say the same thing about people on 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:48.120 the left and the A C. L U. Do you 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:52.439 get any sense that what they're doing, the cases that 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:57.760 they're bringing are any different from those of Alliance Defending 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.439 Freedom or Judicial Watch. I would say that they seem 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:03.200 to be signaling that they're going to be a lot 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.280 more active than those groups, and that they're going to 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:10.120 be looking at a much wider range of issues, and 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.360 that they're going to be really focused on the issues 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:17.640 that in particular, really seem to concern the far farther 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:21.200 rights individuals. So whereas you might see some of those 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:25.240 more established groups might be focusing more on you know, 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:30.320 different policies than maybe aren't quite so controversial. Uh, I 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:31.760 don't think that's going to be a concern of a 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:35.880 f L. So did anyone you spoke to think that 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.960 this was a short term endeavor that possibly it won't 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:45.120 last pass when Trump will decide whether or not to run. 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:47.760 Someone I spoke to said that it's possible that they're 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:49.920 just looking for, you know, a paycheck and waiting to 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:54.560 see what happens in and maybe um they'll be you know, 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.760 back in power and get bigger jobs in the administration 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.800 or something like that. But even if they were able 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:03.360 to do that, even if Steven Miller, you know, made 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:06.559 a triumphant return to the White House, I wouldn't be 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:09.080 surprised if they found some way to keep America First Legal, 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.959 you know, still going and doing what it what it does. Um, 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:15.200 but right now they need a booking man and that's Biden, 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:18.360 and he's in office. If that changes, who knows. It 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:24.800 seems like their cases are anti anti abortion, anti immigrant, 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:29.280 anti l g B t Q, that they're fighting against 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:33.760 other people's rights. That's the big difference between what the 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.480 a c l YOU did and what America First Legal 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:40.040 is doing. Of course, the a c l U was 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:44.000 raising the alarm about concerns that rights would be taken away, 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.000 and in fact that was the case. That is what 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:50.200 the Trump administration tried to do. A f L is 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:55.080 focused on the concerns of really mostly you know, white people, 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:59.480 straight white men in particular. That seems to be their 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:04.360 their good Thanks Eric. That's Bloomberg Legal reporter Eric Larson. 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:10.080 It made headlines when Left Parness and Igor Frewman were 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:14.680 arrested in boarding a plane with one way tickets to Europe. 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:19.360 Prosecutors claimed the pair had made donations to American politicians 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:23.560 to advance the interests of Ukrainian officials. Now Frewman has 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:27.520 pleaded guilty and Parness's trial seems to have morphed into 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:31.760 something different altogether. The government's case has almost nothing to 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:36.520 do with Ukraine and instead focuses on political contributions allegedly 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:39.800 intended to help launch a cannabis business. Joining me is 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:43.800 Bloomberg Legal reporter Christian Berthelson. So Christian, tell us what 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:48.120 charges Partners is facing at trial. Yeah, So that's what 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.800 a strange one. You know, left Partners and his business 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:56.120 associating Frewman were charged two years ago. And you know, 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:59.679 they were involved in Rudy Giuliani's efforts to dig up 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:03.120 to her on Joe Biden in Ukraine. And this was 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:07.160 sort of a subtext to the whole first impeachment trial 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:09.719 of Donald Trump and the quid pro quo he was 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:14.160 seeking in Ukraine to get damaging information about the Bidens 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:18.080 prior to the election. Levin and Igor were working with 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:22.360 Juliani to try and facilitate that. They were actually arrested 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.720 with one way tickets to leave the country getting on 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:29.600 an airplane in Washington, d C. The government alleged that 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:34.080 they had been working for Ukrainian officials to advance their 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:36.720 interests in the United States and that they were played 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:38.440 a role in the firing of the then U s 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:42.640 Ambassador in Ukraine, Mariovanovitch. All of those allegations were then 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.480 sort of quietly dropped from the case about a year ago. 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:51.120 Mr Freman pleaded guilty. Mr Parnass just started trial yesterday, 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.680 but the charges against him now involved allegedly illegal campaign 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:58.000 donations he made to try and advance a cannabis business 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:02.400 in Nevada, California and elsewhere. So it's a very different 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.440 case than what prosecutors said it was when they charged 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.560 it two years ago. Is Ferman going to testify for 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:11.960 the prosecution. No, so two of the defendants in that case, 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:14.840 there was four defendants, two of them have pleaded guilty. 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:18.080 Neither one of them pleaded guilty with the cooperation agreement, 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:22.520 so they are not expected to become government witnesses during 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:24.000 the trial. Is there going to be a lot of 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:28.400 mention of former President Trump or Rudy Giuliani. One would 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.280 have thought that given the way the case was charged 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:34.400 two years ago, But no, as we get to our trial, 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:36.560 one of the prosecutors told the judge last week that 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.400 Mr Trump and Mr Giuliani are going to be peripheral 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:42.560 figures at best. Do you know why this case took 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:46.560 such a turn. At the prosecutors when they dropped that 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:50.080 allegation from the case, offered no explanation as to why 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.400 they were doing it. They said they were streamlining certain 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:56.760 factual assertions and they left it at that, and they 0:15:56.800 --> 0:16:00.800 have declined to say anything beyond that. So that is 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:03.600 really not much of an answer, uh, and sort of 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.360 leaves it open to speculation as to why. You know, 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:11.080 they do have the the evidence in the campaign finance 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:15.120 charges and that's an easier case to bring, and potentially 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:18.040 what they could have done is sort of just wanted 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.520 to charge and try an easier case rather than getting 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:26.000 into issues that the defense could have raised about, you know, 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.320 doing something on behalf of the president and whether that 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:33.320 then became acceptable. I don't know. I don't think anyone 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.680 knows outside of the office why they decided to do 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:40.360 it that way. And what's parnesses defense. So the campaign 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:45.520 charges involved funds that came from a Russian investor in 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:49.840 the cannabis business and that were then used to donate 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:54.240 to certain state politicians around the country. His defense is 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:58.280 that there was no conspiracy to do that, and the 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:01.400 funds that were donated and come from the Russian businessman. 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:05.920 There are two defendants. Are their defenses united? Are they 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:09.520 working together? They're actually not working together, which has been 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:13.200 an interesting development and only become clear in the last 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.240 week or so that the other defendant, andre Ka Kushkin, 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:19.080 basically says that he was a victim of love Parnoff 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.919 and that this entire scheme with the campaign donations was 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:26.680 really just a scheme to get money out of Mr 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:30.760 Kakushion and his Russian investor. And in fact, of the 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:34.600 million dollars that came from Russia, a little over one 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:38.439 hundred thousand of it actually was donated to politicians. The 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:42.320 rest was diverted to other purposes. Let's turn to one 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:47.040 of the witnesses who will testify at the trial, Adam Laxalt, 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:51.560 who's running for US Senate in Nevada. I believe, so 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:55.120 why is he testifying at this trial? That's correct, He's 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:58.640 expected to testify today. He's kind of an interesting figure 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:02.680 because he was as attorney general and running for governor 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:07.480 of Nevada when he received donation from Mr Parnass and 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.919 he of course then went on to become a co 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:15.679 chair of Trump's reelection campaign in Nevada and fanned a 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.800 lot of the voter fraud allegations that Mr Trump was 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:21.760 making in an effort to overturn the results into Vada. 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.160 The prosecutors have asked the judge to keep the questioning 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:28.160 away from that issue, but the defense wants to raise 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:30.639 it because they think it goes to his credibility as 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:33.480 a witness. Coming up next on the Bloomberg Law Show, 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:37.760 I'll continue this conversation with Bloomberg Legal reporter Christian Bertelson, 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:40.840 and we'll talk about the new U S. Attorney for 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:47.640 the Southern District of New York. You're listening to Bloomberg 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:52.440 Law with June Grasso from Bloomberg Radio. The U S. 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:54.960 Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York is 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.960 the most high profile of the ninety three offices around 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.880 the country, known for police Wall Street and prosecuting high 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:07.640 profile cases involving terrorism, organized crime, and public corruption. Damian 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:10.200 Williams is the first black person to be in charge 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:12.800 of the Southern District in its two thirty two year 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:15.919 history and one of the youngest. I've been talking to 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:19.720 Bloomberg Legal reporter Christian Berthelsson, so tell us about his 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:23.639 background well, if he's born in New York, New York City, 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:29.000 grew up in Atlanta, his parents are immigrants, he's quite 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:33.040 success story. Harvard undergrad, you know, law school, clerked for 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:37.680 Merrick Garland on the DC Appeals Court UH and Marrick 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:41.600 Garlands of course, now the Attorney General. He has been 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:45.480 a U S attorney for think about ten years and 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:49.199 was elevated first from being a ligned prosecutor to the 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.240 co chief of the Securities Unit, and from there to 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:55.760 head of the entire office, as last week confirmed by 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:59.119 the Senate after being nominated earlier this year by President Biden. 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:03.119 Would you say that he's been the star of the U. S. 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:06.879 Attorney's Office? Certainly. I mean, you know, the Southern District 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:11.520 Use Attorney's Office has a reputation as being one of 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:14.880 the most elite offices in the country, partially because of 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:19.080 you being here in New York and being sort of 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:23.240 the law enforcement overseer of Wall Street, and within the office, 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:27.800 the Securities Unit is viewed as the most high profile unit. 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:32.040 So Mr Williams was a line prosecutor in the unit 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:35.639 following the financial crisis and did some of the offices 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:40.840 most high profile cases. They included the conviction of the 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:45.119 guilty plea of a sitting US congressman for insider trading, 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:49.800 other cases against hedge funds for insider trading and mismarking 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:53.520 other forms of security spraud, and another big case involving 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:59.240 the circulation of non public, highly sensitive information from government 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:03.560 agencies to hedge funds that inform their trading ahead of 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:09.160 major decision enoucements. So he's taking over at a time 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:14.800 when there's been some controversies. Yes, well, you know, the 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:19.840 past four years under the Trump administration were challenging for 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:25.600 the Southern District. They included the unceremonious firings of two 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:29.680 U S attorneys during that period, and uh, you know, 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:33.040 a fair amount of meddling from main Justice in the 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:37.800 Affairs and District, the pardoning of defendants who were convicted 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:43.320 by this office, including Steve Bannon, Mr. Trump's sometimes political advisor, 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:46.199 And there have also been miss steps by the office itself. 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:49.240 There have been multiple cases in recent years where the 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:54.160 office was found to have withheld important, potentially exculpatory information 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:57.320 from defense lawyers for defendants that were being prosecuted by 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:01.040 the office, and it has been castigated by judges in 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:06.199 this district for not playing fair. So there is a 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:09.840 fair amount of work to do in rebuilding the reputation 0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:13.000 of this office, both with the public and with the 0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:16.560 judges who who oversee the cases they bring. Is he 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:18.920 stepping into a role in an office where there's a 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:22.520 morale problem. Yes, People who have left the office say 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:27.240 that the lawyers who are there have have been having 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:31.800 morale issues, partly, you know, the same way everyone has 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:35.680 with this pandemic and through remote work. But the hits 0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:41.240 to the office's reputation from the evidentiary issues everyone has 0:22:41.280 --> 0:22:45.680 taken hard, and the meddling that came from the Trump 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:50.520 administration has also weighed on morale there. So yes, you know, 0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:53.919 people say that the new U. S. Attorney has a 0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:57.440 fair amount of work to do in trying to restore 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:02.560 that office to its prior. The Southern district known for 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:09.480 prosecuting Wall Street crimes, financial securities fraud. During the Trump administration, 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:13.119 those crimes are not giving the same attention. Any indication 0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:17.399 what he's going to focus on not really. Uh, you know, 0:23:17.440 --> 0:23:22.760 there's no public hearings for the U. S. Attorney nominees, 0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:27.360 so he hasn't had a any kind of public airing 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:31.720 of you know, his record or or what he sees 0:23:31.760 --> 0:23:34.720 as the office's mission. You know, obviously he has been 0:23:34.760 --> 0:23:40.480 talking to former leaders of the office, former senior officials, 0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:45.720 their friends, colleagues in the months since his nomination as 0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:49.080 he sort of puts together ideas for how he wants 0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:51.040 to lead and what he wants to focus on. But 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:53.439 the people who have had those conversations with him have 0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:57.760 not wanted to go into great detail about them and 0:23:57.800 --> 0:24:00.840 feel like he should be given room to set those 0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:04.320 priorities and announce those things himself. He just started in 0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:08.120 the job on Sunday, so he hasn't himself held any 0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:11.399 public events yet to articulate that either tell us what 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:14.440 my profile cases there are in the office right now 0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:17.520 that he's going to be overseen. Well, as you were saying, 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:22.120 enforcement of white collar of financial type crimes did all 0:24:22.240 --> 0:24:27.520 precipitously during the Trump administration. Part of that is because 0:24:28.240 --> 0:24:31.280 you know, those types of cases tend to come up 0:24:31.720 --> 0:24:34.600 when you have downturns in the market or downturns in 0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:37.159 the economy, and that hasn't been the case in the 0:24:37.280 --> 0:24:39.720 last four years. So there is a bit of a 0:24:39.720 --> 0:24:43.320 cyclical ebb to it. However, you could also infer that 0:24:43.359 --> 0:24:46.000 it just was not a priority of the prior administration 0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:49.199 to bring those kinds of cases. So I think you 0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:53.320 could expect to see an effort to bring more of those. 0:24:53.520 --> 0:24:56.840 You know, this office works particularly closely with the SEC, 0:24:57.760 --> 0:25:01.439 and Gary Gensler, the new SEC chief, has identified areas 0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:04.960