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Speaker 1: Welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're discussing how you can use it up,

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Speaker 1: wear it out, make it do, or do without with

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Speaker 1: Katie Wolke Stanley.

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Speaker 2: That's right, yeah, So everybody has heard of a consumer

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Speaker 2: advocate before, right, Like that's someone who helps to make

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Speaker 2: sure that individuals are getting the best deal possible, or

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Speaker 2: maybe to make sure that the quality of those products

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Speaker 2: is up to snuff. I'm thinking of consumer reports, the

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Speaker 2: countless reporting and tests that they perform on basically any

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Speaker 2: item out there that you can buy. But you likely

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Speaker 2: haven't heard of a non consumer advocate before, and that

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Speaker 2: is who we're talking with today, our friend Katie Wolke Stanley.

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Speaker 2: Katie is the non consumer advocate. Her site is the

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Speaker 2: Consumer Advocate dot com, and she helps people to learn

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Speaker 2: to live on less and to do so in a

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Speaker 2: way that lessens their environmental impact. She is an uber

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Speaker 2: frugal light who hardly ever buys anything new, and she

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Speaker 2: uses that superpower to tell others to live on as little

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Speaker 2: income as possible. So we're gonna be talking about all

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Speaker 2: these different tactics today that anyone out there can do.

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Speaker 2: You know, whether you choose to, that's up to you.

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Speaker 2: But we are excited for our conversation today, Katie, thank

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Speaker 2: you for joining us on the podcast.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Joeling, Matt for having me.

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Speaker 1: All Right, Katie, I'm really curious to hear your answer

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Speaker 1: to the question that we ask everybody when they come

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Speaker 1: on the show, Because you are you approach buying things

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Speaker 1: differently than pretty much any guess we've had on before.

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Speaker 1: So Matt and I we splurge on craft beer and

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Speaker 1: even while we're saving the investing for the future. Is

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Speaker 1: there something you splurge on in the here and now?

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Speaker 1: I don't even know well what.

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Speaker 3: I splurge on here and now. It changes like through

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Speaker 3: the years as I've gone through different points in life.

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Speaker 3: At the moment, what I love to e splurge on

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Speaker 3: is my adult kids. Although at twenty four and twenty seven,

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Speaker 3: they have gone to college, they've graduated, they have flown

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Speaker 3: the coup, they work full time. I know that money

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Speaker 3: is tight for them, and so I like to be

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Speaker 3: able to take them out to eat. I like to

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Speaker 3: slip them a little money here and there. They don't

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Speaker 3: ask for money and so they really appreciate it and

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Speaker 3: it's a treat. My parents, certainly, you know, did a

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Speaker 3: little bit of that when I was young and just

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Speaker 3: getting started in my adult life, and I'm happy and

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Speaker 3: privileged to be able to do it for them.

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Speaker 2: I love it. I guess that never goes away because

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Speaker 2: there's a certain you know, Jiel having three, me having

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Speaker 2: four kids, there's obviously a certain amount of that that

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Speaker 2: we do now while still trying to find that balance

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Speaker 2: of making sure that they understand the money. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: just grow on trees. But maybe after you teach them

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Speaker 2: those lessons, maybe you feel a little more freedom to

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Speaker 2: slip them some bills.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, then instead of chocolates for Valentine's Day, I gave

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Speaker 3: me one hundred bucks. There you go.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's come on, that's what That's what we need.

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Speaker 2: We don't need more sugar in our diets cause off

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Speaker 2: that inflammation or whatever it is. Of anyway, Katie, your slogan,

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Speaker 2: or like the moniker that your site is, goes by

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Speaker 2: is use it up, wear it out, make it do

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Speaker 2: or do without. And we'll kind of cover each of these,

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Speaker 2: we'll cover the spectrum of how these kind of play

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Speaker 2: out in your life. But can you first tell us

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Speaker 2: why that has become your motto? Where did you come

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Speaker 2: across that? And why is it you know that that

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Speaker 2: resonates with you.

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Speaker 3: So it is a term that I certainly did not

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Speaker 3: make up myself. You'll find it used during World War Two.

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Speaker 3: That was like an effort to get people to kind

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Speaker 3: of be more thoughtful with how they were consuming goods

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Speaker 3: that needed to be used for the war effort. But

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Speaker 3: apparently it goes back farther than that. I've had different

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Speaker 3: people say it was like, oh, that's an old Yankee term,

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Speaker 3: or that's a New England term. So I don't I've

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Speaker 3: never really been able to find out, you know, where

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Speaker 3: precisely it came up. But whenever I've come across that,

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Speaker 3: even like long before I was blogging, it just really

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Speaker 3: resonated with me, and I was like, that is great.

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Speaker 3: It's so like concise and yet it's it's wide and meaningful.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels so kind of like foreign to the

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Speaker 1: way so many people live life today though, So it

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Speaker 1: is interesting that we were talking before we started recording

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Speaker 1: about how about Rabbid fan bases, And I think that

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Speaker 1: people who follow you they are kind of rabbit in

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Speaker 1: that way, like because and I think part of it

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Speaker 1: is because this slogan is so antithetical to kind of

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Speaker 1: so much of the way our modern society functions.

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Speaker 3: Yes, especially when it's just so easy to you. Don't

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Speaker 3: you have to go on your computer to buy stuff.

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Speaker 3: You know, you've got that Amazon app and you just like,

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Speaker 3: you know, swiped to buy. It's so easy and frankly

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Speaker 3: so cheap. But I mean, yeah, this thing is how

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Speaker 3: is this saying seven dollars and it includes shipping when

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Speaker 3: you know the shipping costs more than that if we

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Speaker 3: were to ship it ourselves. People want a different perspective,

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Speaker 3: and I think that is why people, as you said,

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Speaker 3: a rabbit, I would just say more loyal yeah to.

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Speaker 1: Me at crazy, I don't know, I see them foaming

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Speaker 1: at the mouth all the time.

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Speaker 2: Following.

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Speaker 1: I am curious though, because yeah, you say, use it up,

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Speaker 1: wear it out, and make it do or do without.

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Speaker 1: And so what makes your your list of things that

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Speaker 1: you will purchase brand new?

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Speaker 2: Are there? Is there anything? Or like?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely they are absolutely things that I do buy new

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Speaker 3: and I start and by the way, I started the

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Speaker 3: buy nothing new practice myself even before I started blogging,

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Speaker 3: So that was I think, like in two thousand and six,

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Speaker 3: two thousand and seven. I am not out there like

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Speaker 3: looking for a used toothbrush, so I would categorize that

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Speaker 3: or like a personal care item. Okay, something that is

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Speaker 3: like touching my body in that way. I don't mean

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Speaker 3: like clothes, but floss, tooth fresh undergarments. I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: although I have bought used socks before because you can

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Speaker 3: just wash them and sometimes they look amazing.

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Speaker 2: Well, and your feet are so peripheral, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: like they're basically the closer you get to the core

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Speaker 2: of your body. Eye too. Would also want to like

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Speaker 2: the further it gets away from my face or my mouth.

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Speaker 2: I think I would be more comfortable with, uh, with

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Speaker 2: going a little more used.

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Speaker 3: We bought a brand new mattress at this point, like

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Speaker 3: two years ago. And although I have gotten a used

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Speaker 3: mattress before, and I got it from somebody that I knew,

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Speaker 3: that was just not something I wanted to use. There's

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Speaker 3: just two much. Once you start thinking of bed bugs,

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Speaker 3: you can't stop thinking about it.

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Speaker 2: Right, Well, that might be one area where I've got

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Speaker 2: you beat, Katie, because we my wife and I slept

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Speaker 2: actually no, shoot, we still have this mattress. Our daughter

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Speaker 2: is now sleeping on it. But we got to use

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Speaker 2: mattress for free from a neighbor.

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Speaker 3: But we knew them.

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Speaker 2: They're neighbors of a friend of ours, so they knew them,

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Speaker 2: and so implicitly, I guess we trusted them. But I'm

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Speaker 2: telling you it's a good mattress. Yeah, and it's anything

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Speaker 2: we regretted. I sometimes getting stuff off the side of

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Speaker 2: the road can be a little daunting. I had a

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Speaker 2: friend who brought home a chair that looked nice, but

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Speaker 2: then it had bedbugs, and that caused a whole mess.

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Speaker 2: So you want to avoid that, just burn the whole

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Speaker 2: apartment down. I guess right, that's the case.

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Speaker 3: I do a lot of curbside shopping and a tremendous

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Speaker 3: amount of thrifting for things that I want and need,

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Speaker 3: And if it's even slightly something that could have bedbugs,

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Speaker 3: I examine it in the store, and then I also

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Speaker 3: leave it on my porch so I can give it

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Speaker 3: a better examination. I've never had get the headline something

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Speaker 3: that I would call a cautionary tale from that though.

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Speaker 2: Got it okay. Well, so we're kind of talking about

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Speaker 2: I don't know, just buying stuff new Katie, Like, do

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Speaker 2: you have any thoughts on buying things that are more

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Speaker 2: well made, like things that are higher quality that come

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Speaker 2: with maybe better warranties. Is that important to you, you know,

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Speaker 2: when when you're at least occasionally buying something that that

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Speaker 2: hasn't previously been used.

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Speaker 3: Yes, although mostly I really don't buy that much stuff.

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Speaker 3: And I understand what you're getting at. To you, buying

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Speaker 3: like a higher quality item from a responsible company exactly,

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Speaker 3: warranty that will stand behind their product is always like

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Speaker 3: the ideal. My goal is to then just get it

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Speaker 3: used when the person who initially bought it gets bored

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Speaker 3: with it.

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Speaker 2: I like that well.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that you've you've written about,

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Speaker 1: you've talked about too, is that you prioritize lower tech

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Speaker 1: solutions because those things need to be replaced less frequently.

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Speaker 1: And I think, like you've mentioned tea kettles, and it's

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Speaker 1: funny because we went to like an electric tea kettle,

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Speaker 1: but we've had like they didn't last very long, and

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Speaker 1: so I'm like, do I need to go back to

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Speaker 1: just this basic like just kettle on the on the

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Speaker 1: stove things. That's I mean, that's kind of your approach right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: I do.

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Speaker 3: Have a kettle on the stove, and it is such

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Speaker 3: an although it's not that old, it is probably I know,

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Speaker 3: fifteen years old at this point. It's exactly the one

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Speaker 3: that you can see on the show mad Men, so

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Speaker 3: it's classically a rever one. But yeah, I don't want

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Speaker 3: things that I'm going to have to replace. I did

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Speaker 3: just buy a new refrigerator this fall, now that I

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Speaker 3: think of it, and I did get one that had

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Speaker 3: like zero bells and whistles. The less that's going on

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Speaker 3: with the stuff that you own, the less that can

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Speaker 3: go wrong with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't want your fridge connected to the internet

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Speaker 1: with like a tablet on it and all this other

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff. You're right, I mean I think that

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Speaker 1: that is like there's more stuff to replace, and it's

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Speaker 1: the same kind of with modern cars often these days too.

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Speaker 3: And if it's simpler, it's something that you could conceivably

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Speaker 3: repair yourself with a good YouTube video.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yep, Okay, so I think you're right on that, And

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Speaker 1: I guess like a lot of people opt to replace

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Speaker 1: items that.

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Speaker 2: I could easily be fixed.

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Speaker 1: But you have described yourself as a serial repairer, and

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Speaker 1: I remember when we've worked together, Katie back in the day,

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Speaker 1: and I learned about this thing called sue grew from you,

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Speaker 1: which is like multiple clay and glue which helps repair

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Speaker 1: all sorts of things. I think you actually sent me

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Speaker 1: some in the mail, and I love I love that

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Speaker 1: like that you yeah, And I love that you're just

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Speaker 1: kind of all about like fixing stuff whenever you can, so, like,

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Speaker 1: do you have any best DIY tips for fixing things

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Speaker 1: that break from time to time in your life?

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Speaker 3: I've just said it, but YouTube, there is very rarely

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Speaker 3: something that you're trying to figure out how to do

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Speaker 3: that you can't find on YouTube that somebody else has

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Speaker 3: done themselves and put together a video about it. You

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Speaker 3: don't need to invent the wheel. My husband and I

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Speaker 3: we both just you know, if something is wrong, we

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Speaker 3: want to know how can we fix this? How can

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Speaker 3: and in that way we're able to avoid making new purchases.

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Speaker 3: An example is I was at my son's rental house.

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Speaker 3: I noticed that they had a busted up dining room

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Speaker 3: chair in the corner of the room, and I asked

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Speaker 3: his roommate, Hey, do you want me to fix this?

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Speaker 3: And he was like, what I'm like, that looks prepaarable.

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Speaker 3: Would you want me to fix this? And he was like, uh, okay,

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Speaker 3: I guess lady. Just you know his roommate's mom. So

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Speaker 3: brought it home and it just was a matter of

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Speaker 3: gluing and clamping in a couple of different stages, and

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Speaker 3: my son took it back last night. And it is

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Speaker 3: not a beautiful chair to be handed down to your ancestors,

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Speaker 3: but you know what, it's now a functional piece and

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Speaker 3: it literally saves it from the landfill and makes it

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Speaker 3: so that they can have like a you know, proper

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Speaker 3: number of people at the dining room table if that

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Speaker 3: ever worked, which.

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Speaker 2: Is honestly, that's that's the most important thing, right, the

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Speaker 2: ability for folks to gather around that table. I mean

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Speaker 2: with furniture in particular, when you have older furniture that

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Speaker 2: isn't just particle board, it's made from real wood. You

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Speaker 2: can glue it right, like wood glue, like joints or

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Speaker 2: whatever where you've used glue. I've learned from personal experience.

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Speaker 2: It's all. I mean, I think it's stronger than other

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Speaker 2: parts of the chair, Like it's not going to break

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Speaker 2: there again if you have a good bond. But how

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Speaker 2: do you know like when something is beyond repairing, because

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Speaker 2: it's difficult to know, just like is this something that

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Speaker 2: I can tackle myself for, Like, how do you know

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Speaker 2: when it truly is time to just toss it out

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Speaker 2: and replace it completely?

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Speaker 3: Well, there isn't necessarily like a single single answer to that.

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Speaker 3: But I'm going to go back to the example of

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Speaker 3: the refrigerator that my husband and I just got from Costco.

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Speaker 3: You'll like that, Joel love me. They stayin their products.

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Speaker 3: So that was yeah. And this fridge that we had

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Speaker 3: that we've had since nineteen ninety eight, so I remember

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Speaker 3: my son was an infant. It was not like a

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Speaker 3: great quality item, and so we've done a lot of

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Speaker 3: little repairs and my husband finally, after countless repairs through

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Speaker 3: the years, was like, you know what, I can't figure

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Speaker 3: this out. I think it's the compressor. So we went out.

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Speaker 3: We got a bare bones one, which by the way,

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Speaker 3: got lightly scratched during the delivery process, and Pasto gave

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Speaker 3: us like one hundred and fifty two hundred bucks back.

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Speaker 3: Sweet Yeah, and for it, Paul, I wasn't you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm a Karen. Talk to your manager, lady. They offered it.

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Speaker 1: Oh, nice. Okay, Well, that's the kind of company they are,

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Speaker 1: you know, they do stuff like that, which is.

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Speaker 3: They treat their employees well and they pay a living wage.

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Speaker 3: So that's who I want to when I am buying

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Speaker 3: new stuff. I look for companies like that to give

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Speaker 3: my money to.

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Speaker 2: Who you buy from is really important. But so, I mean,

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Speaker 2: it sounds like for y'all with the fridge, it kind

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Speaker 2: of came down to the maybe the total cost of

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Speaker 2: the repair perhaps was going to total the item. And

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Speaker 2: so maybe that's a decent rule of thumb for folks

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Speaker 2: to kind of keep in mind. If you're going to

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Speaker 2: be sinking more money into this repair and even still

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Speaker 2: have the subpar then maybe it's time.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like if you have a car that's

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Speaker 1: old car that's worth thirty five hundred bucks and you've

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Speaker 1: got it, it's like transmission and replacement time. You're like, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: it probably doesn't make sense to repair this thing anymore.

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Speaker 1: It's time to yeah, parcel this from out for parts.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're driving very old car right now, and you

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Speaker 3: know we just keep string.

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Speaker 1: It well and yeah, and it makes sense, right. I

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Speaker 1: I think we talked about on the show recently, I

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Speaker 1: spent two hundred and eighty eight dollars to replace I

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Speaker 1: want to say it was a solenoid or something like that,

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Speaker 1: and so I had to get it replaced just to

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Speaker 1: pass the emissions test or they won't let me drive

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Speaker 1: in the state of Georgia.

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Speaker 2: Three hundred bucks. Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I was like really excited to spend

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Speaker 1: the money on that because it prevents me from having

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Speaker 1: a car payment. And and I think you're right, like,

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Speaker 1: the more we think about what we're using and how

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Speaker 1: much we're consuming on the front end, it kind of

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Speaker 1: helps us to create less waste and to create less

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Speaker 1: consumption and to spend less money. I'm curious too, because

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Speaker 1: we're getting into spring right now and a lot of

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Speaker 1: people are probably starting to think about spring cleaning. I

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Speaker 1: know we are at our house. We're starting to thinking

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Speaker 1: about decluttering a little bit more. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things that you mentioned on your blog is that we

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Speaker 1: can often get a tax break for donating these items

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Speaker 1: to goodwill. But it's something that most people don't do properly,

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Speaker 1: and the deductions can actually be significant. They can add

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Speaker 1: up over time depending on what you're giving away. Right,

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Speaker 1: can you talk about that.

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Speaker 3: Yes, when I donate to Goodwill and they give you

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Speaker 3: the little receipt, I actually in that moment, like I

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Speaker 3: drive around the corner and park the car, I write

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Speaker 3: two pairs men's pants, you know, one youth winter coat.

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Speaker 3: Because when the time comes to do your taxes, whether

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Speaker 3: you're doing like a turbo tax or maybe one of

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Speaker 3: the like free versions, which I recommend, that you can

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Speaker 3: put all of that in. You can't just say I

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Speaker 3: donated thirty five dollars of stuff. You can get so

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Speaker 3: much more. They'll give you like a ten dollars credit

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Speaker 3: for a single pair of men's pants. That's not a

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Speaker 3: I don't specifically know right now, but it can be significant.

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Speaker 3: My husband and I do our taxes ourselves, and we

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Speaker 3: do them together, and he always hands the computer over

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Speaker 3: and he's like, all right, put in the Goodwill stuff,

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Speaker 3: and it'll make a difference of like hundreds of dollars

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Speaker 3: of how much we're getting back.

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Speaker 1: I will say, I'm worried that Dale's going to wake

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Speaker 1: up tomorrow with no pants, because you're going to go

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Speaker 1: donate them all just for the tax right.

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Speaker 2: Off, just to get we told you sorry, Dale. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So practically speaking, So do you immediately enter those into

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Speaker 2: whatever software app you're using, or do you just kind

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Speaker 2: of keep a note on your phone.

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Speaker 3: They hand you a paper slip and then it has

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Speaker 3: lines for what you donated, and I write it on

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Speaker 3: those lines.

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Speaker 2: It's very and then you just keep you just hang

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Speaker 2: on to the paper until the until come tax season.

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Speaker 2: I love it. I think that's really important, yeah, cause

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Speaker 2: otherwise if you don't, if you don't do it like

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Speaker 2: right then and there, I think there's a good chance

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Speaker 2: you'll either forget yeah, or you might even just say

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Speaker 2: forget about it. You know, you may not even take

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Speaker 2: the time. Yeah, yeah, So yeah, getting that tax break,

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Speaker 2: that is certainly one thing you can do with some

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Speaker 2: of the additional items that you have on hand. But

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Speaker 2: you can also take some of those things and sell them.

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Speaker 2: We actually are going to talk a good bit about

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Speaker 2: how you can make some additional income with some of

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Speaker 2: your excess goods. We'll get to that, plus plenty more

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Speaker 2: right after this. All right, we are back from the break.

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Speaker 1: We're still talking about using things up, wearing them out,

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Speaker 1: making it do, doing without, and just kind of like

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Speaker 1: buying less and being smarter with our consumption habits. We're

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Speaker 1: talking with Katie walk Stanley here on the show today,

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Speaker 1: and Katie, you wrote an article about how to practice

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Speaker 1: extreme frugality. So I am curious, Matt and I we

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Speaker 1: give the distinction between things being frugal and cheap. On

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Speaker 1: the show, we have a recurring segment sometimes world debate

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Speaker 1: the merits of a decision and say was that frugal

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Speaker 1: or cheap? But you kind of say there's a third way.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm curious to hear your yeah, your

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Speaker 1: belief and how you think about being frugal or being cheap.

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Speaker 3: I feel like the cheap versus frugal debate is like

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Speaker 3: a false dichotomy. It's not a either one or the

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Speaker 3: other blacker white issue. I feel like, do you like

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Speaker 3: a good ven diagram? I do. I feel like you've

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Speaker 3: got cheap in one circle, you've got frugal the other,

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Speaker 3: and then they meet in the center and you've got

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Speaker 3: non consumerism there.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so right in the middle, Like that's that's where

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Speaker 2: that's where we like to live, Katie.

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Speaker 3: I am a how to money listener and I have

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Speaker 3: I have heard you guys talk about something being cheaper

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Speaker 3: for Google, and I'm I want in on the conversation,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, no, there's a third choice. But I feel

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Speaker 3: that like trying to think of what like a good

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Speaker 3: example would be like buying a low quality item versus

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Speaker 3: buying a very expensive but higher quality item. You're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: what do I do? Do I spend one thousand on this?

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Speaker 3: Or do I spend four hundred on that? And I

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Speaker 3: feel like there's that's third choice, which is by the expensive,

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Speaker 3: higher quality item but find it used. Yeah, Or like

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Speaker 3: I am here in Portland, Oregon, we have like amazing

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Speaker 3: restaurants and a lot of really inexpensive options too, food carts,

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Speaker 3: and we have an amazing like Mexican food cart just

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Speaker 3: a couple of blocks away from the house, and I'll

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Speaker 3: go there and it is cheap. But what I do

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Speaker 3: is I will choose like the cheap option, but then

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Speaker 3: I end up tipping really well, okay, And like for

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Speaker 3: that same amount of money, I could have gone to

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Speaker 3: like a very dull middle road restaurant, but instead I

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Speaker 3: get to go and get something amazing that I make

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Speaker 3: sure that I'm tipping well. Even though in Oregon nobody

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Speaker 3: is allowed to get less than minimum wage, so even

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Speaker 3: your waiters are getting the minimum wage.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's cool. They're definitely getting taken care of it.

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Speaker 2: I think so much of it does come down to

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Speaker 2: the heart of why you do something right, and so

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Speaker 2: if you are because I think so much of cheap

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Speaker 2: being cheap is it's like an attitude, and I think,

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Speaker 2: think what one person's cheap can be somebody else's frugal.

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Speaker 2: And it kind of depends on how you approach it.

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Speaker 2: But do you have any any other examples of of

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Speaker 2: some ways that maybe folks have either made fun of

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Speaker 2: you or that in your own opinion that would.

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Speaker 3: Be considered.

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Speaker 2: Something I don't, but just like I guess more extreme

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Speaker 2: examples of frugality. Obviously you're you're looking at things on

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Speaker 2: the side of the road. I love that, But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm curious if you have any other examples.

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Speaker 3: I I love a good roadside find.

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Speaker 1: We're not talking roadkill for dinner or anything like that.

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Speaker 3: Right, Probably? Not?

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Speaker 2: Okay?

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Speaker 3: Not? No, I can make that five dollars costco chicken

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Speaker 3: stretch for many meals. I don't need to be going

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Speaker 3: for possum.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 3: I semi recently found a Filson brand like knit wool

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Speaker 3: knit cap like in the streets soggy, embedded with like

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Speaker 3: oil and leaves and stuff. It was not recently dropped,

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Speaker 3: so I brought it home, I washed it, I sweater

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Speaker 3: shaved it, put it up on eBay, and I sold

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Speaker 3: it for forty bucks.

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Speaker 2: Nice.

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Speaker 3: So I mean, but back to cheap, I actually want

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Speaker 3: to defend cheap. I know the word cheap and the

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Speaker 3: idea of cheap gets a very bad rap. But what

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Speaker 3: can happen a lot of times is that people do

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Speaker 3: not want to be perceived as cheap with family, with friends,

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Speaker 3: and what they'll do is they will spend beyond their

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Speaker 3: means in order to not be viewed as being cheap.

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Speaker 3: And in that way, I think demonizing the word can

437
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 3: do disservice to people.

438
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: I think that's a good point. I think people feel uncomfortable,

439
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 1: they don't want to be classified in that way, and

440
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 1: so you're right, they probably end up spending in ways

441
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 1: they get them in trouble when they should probably be

442
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 1: just a little more comfortable wear wearing that monikor and

443
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:50,640
Speaker 1: not feeling self conscious about.

444
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 3: It, Admitting you're on a limited budget, finding ways to

445
00:21:55,560 --> 00:22:00,199
Speaker 3: do what you want and do so enjoyably on like

446
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 3: no money or next to no money is a creative

447
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,439
Speaker 3: challenge and I find that enjoyable and I try and

448
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 3: help other people find that enjoyable, and there is no

449
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,199
Speaker 3: shame in that. And people you know, embarrassed by the

450
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,399
Speaker 3: car they drive, even if they have a perfectly functional car,

451
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,640
Speaker 3: and getting something they can afford because they don't want

452
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 3: to look cheap.

453
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:21,160
Speaker 2: Yep.

454
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 1: I know you're spot on, and I think we should

455
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: be less than I don't know. It just makes me

456
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 1: think about I've driven kind of quote unquote beaters for

457
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 1: kind of most of my whole life, even into adulthood.

458
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,879
Speaker 1: Our only cars a two thousand and six hond Odyssey

459
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 1: and it's powder blue. It's not terribly attractive, and I know,

460
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: you know, some people might look and they might judge

461
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:42,920
Speaker 1: or something, but I guess part of it is just

462
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: kind of a comfort level in your own skin and

463
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 1: with the choices that you're making and saying like, that's

464
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: just not something we prioritize, even though a lot of

465
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 1: other people do. But I think for some people, you're right,

466
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,399
Speaker 1: it's not that they prioritize it, but it's just that

467
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 1: they feel compelled to follow the crowd and to do

468
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 1: kind of what other people are doing. Even if it

469
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: puts them in like a precarious financial position. Yeah, yeah,

470
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 1: Kai so Joel said being comfortable in your own skin.

471
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 1: So essentially it kind of comes down, I think, to

472
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 1: the individual, like do you have any advice or any

473
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,400
Speaker 1: tips to help people to be comfortable with the decisions

474
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: that they're making, sometimes out of necessity or sometimes they're

475
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 1: making these decisions out of just a desire to be frugal,

476
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 1: a desire to save for other financial goals that they

477
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,880
Speaker 1: might have. But I don't know, have you ever talked

478
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 1: with folks who find themselves in a situation where they

479
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: really feel uncomfortable being in that position? Do you have

480
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 1: any advice for them?

481
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 3: That's a hard one because it is so individual. I mean,

482
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 3: it kind of boils down to contemptedness, like can you

483
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 3: be You know, if you are a content person with

484
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 3: who you are and the belongings that you have and

485
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 3: the person your sense of self that you present out

486
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 3: into the world, Madison Avenue can't touch you. You Being

487
00:23:55,240 --> 00:24:01,719
Speaker 3: solid with yourself means that you are not as open

488
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 3: to thinking that this purchase is going to make your

489
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 3: life better. And granted, there are purchases that can make

490
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 3: your life better. But it shouldn't be motivated by feeling

491
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 3: bad about yourself. And that's a hard one, and I

492
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 3: don't know if that really does answer your question. I

493
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 3: used to work until a few years ago as a

494
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 3: labor and delivery nurse. I worked for twenty four years

495
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 3: at a high risk unit, and so I had many, many,

496
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,439
Speaker 3: many co workers, all of them women. All the nurses

497
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:36,360
Speaker 3: were women there, and we had countless in depth conversations.

498
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 3: You really get to know one another. And so many

499
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 3: women that I that I worked with, they were working

500
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 3: full time, they had little kids, they were often or

501
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 3: usually married to someone who had a good income. And

502
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 3: there's still living paycheck to paycheck. And it was Disneyland

503
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: every year, it was new cars, it was it was

504
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 3: keeping up with the Joneses. And I wasn't there to judge,

505
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 3: and I wasn't there telling people what they're doing wrong.

506
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 3: Nobody likes that person, Nobody wants unsolicited advice in this world.

507
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 3: But I certainly saw that. I saw people comforting their

508
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:24,959
Speaker 3: unhappiness or their stress with purchases. And it's hard to see.

509
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 3: And it doesn't mean you're like a bad person if

510
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 3: you do that. By any means, We've all been there

511
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 3: where you need to cheer yourself up.

512
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's room for evolution.

513
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 3: Sometimes it can have really big picture consequences that you're

514
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 3: not like figuring out what your big picture goals are.

515
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

516
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 2: All right.

517
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 1: I want to talk about selling things because we talked

518
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 1: about donating things just before the break. But you say

519
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,360
Speaker 1: that a lot of folks who like they throw things

520
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: out that they could turn into cash, and so like,

521
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: I don't know, And it feels like you're hunting for

522
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: use things all the time at the thirst store on

523
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: the side of the road, and then you're turning around

524
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: and you're selling those items that one man's trash is

525
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 1: another man's treasure. That's saying I feel like you kind

526
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 1: of personify that. So talk to me about how you're

527
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: finding stuff, how you're thinking about kind of resale when

528
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 1: it comes to things that you're getting rid of or

529
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: things that you're finding to just turn a profit on.

530
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 3: Yes, I do thrifting. I'm not doing it all the time,

531
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 3: just four.

532
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 1: Days a week, that's all I swear. I follow you

533
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 1: on Instagram, I see you at your goodwill all the time,

534
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: and then you're buying stuff and you're selling it on

535
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: eBay and you're making a lot of money.

536
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 3: True, I am doing that. Just last week, I got

537
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 3: a couple of barstools and they just kind of stood

538
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 3: out as quality items when I saw them, and I

539
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 3: gave them, you know, a little shake tests to make

540
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 3: sure they're a sturdy. I bought them for nine to

541
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 3: ninety nine each and I sold the pair for one

542
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 3: seventy five and I did that nice Facebook marketplace. There's

543
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 3: not a single answer to that. One thing that I've

544
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 3: enjoyed doing is there are a couple of like wealthy

545
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 3: neighborhoods here in Portland and they have like a garage

546
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 3: sale day. And what I'll do is I'll drive my

547
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 3: tea two thousand and five Honda minivan.

548
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: Make me feel bad you're competitive, No.

549
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,959
Speaker 3: At the end of the day, where everybody just like

550
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 3: puts their stuff like at the curb with like a

551
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 3: free sign. And I have found boxes of books that

552
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 3: I can take two Powels which is a bookstore here

553
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 3: in Portland, and they'll give you money for them. I've

554
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:28,479
Speaker 3: found like Yakama rack systems that I'll take to a

555
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 3: store in town that buys used bike racks. I mean,

556
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 3: there's just many ways to do that. It's interesting though,

557
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,120
Speaker 3: because you don't want to be a hoarder, and I'm

558
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 3: certainly not. I don't know if you can hear the

559
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 3: echo in this room, I'm not. I'm not that by

560
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 3: any means. But I am very deliberate with the things

561
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 3: that I do bring home. I'll check the eBay app

562
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 3: to see completed listings to see if something is selling well. Ideally,

563
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 3: if I am selling stuff, I want to make it

564
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 3: at least thirty usually fifty bucks on it. Okay, I'm

565
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 3: not trying to make ten dollars here and there. That's

566
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,719
Speaker 3: just kind of like finicky work. Although you know I

567
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 3: love ten dollars. I've never turned that down. But for

568
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 3: my efforts and for the stuff that I am bringing

569
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 3: into my home, I try to do that.

570
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 1: So it sounds like what you're saying is you value

571
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: your time and at some point you're not going to

572
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: go through like so, how do you think about that

573
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 1: too when it comes to like your hourly rate, or

574
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: how you think about how much time and effort you

575
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,479
Speaker 1: put into flipping something in order to turn a profit.

576
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 3: I will clean something up, but I don't want to

577
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 3: be repairing the stuff that I am selling, gotcha, that's

578
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 3: a slippery slope to like setting it aside and then

579
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 3: you just kind of never do it. I try to

580
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 3: make fifty bucks if I'm selling something, and then that

581
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 3: way it's just kind of worth my time, even though

582
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 3: I am retired.

583
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 2: I guess, regardless if you're retired or not, for you,

584
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 2: you've got a standard, you've got a bar that you're not,

585
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 2: you know, willing to go below. But I think that's

586
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 2: the biggest problem is that folks are saying that they

587
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: don't have the time. I think there's a lot of

588
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 2: folks who might be hearing you talk and they're saying

589
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 2: this is I can totally get behind this. I don't

590
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 2: have the time to do all of this. What advice

591
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 2: do you have for those folks who like the mission,

592
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 2: they like the idea of reusing things, but they're saying

593
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 2: they don't have the time. What are your thoughts there?

594
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 3: Oh? I feel for those people because I have been there,

595
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 3: as you know, mom of little kids, working full time

596
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 3: nights as a nurse. You know, time was not something

597
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 3: that I enjoyed a plethora of. I guess it's about

598
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 3: being strategic with what is important, buying less stuff is

599
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 3: a way that you can save money. It's very easy

600
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 3: when you have kids. You just love them to pieces

601
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 3: and you want to get them absolutely everything. But I mean,

602
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 3: studies have shown that having less stuff actually helps your

603
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 3: kids focus more, helps them kind of appreciate the things

604
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 3: that they do have, and to do more kind of

605
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 3: focused play than a room that is like filled with

606
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 3: like everything that toys, r Us throughout or whoever Amazon,

607
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 3: I guess at.

608
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: This point, Well, and we all have seen our kids

609
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: end up playing with the boxes or the pots and

610
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: pins or stuff like that too. That happens, and you're

611
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: just like, what happened to the one hundred dollars Barbie

612
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: dream House that we got you? Why didn't you play

613
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: with that like that? That that's kind of the common

614
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: refrain to hear from parents too.

615
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's it's being a parent is just

616
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 3: the hardest thing, especially now in the digital age where

617
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 3: you know that that Barbie dream House is competing with

618
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 3: a screen. You know, I was luckier that my kids

619
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 3: are older. I didn't really have that issue. But I mean,

620
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 3: when you don't have the time, you just choose what

621
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 3: is important to you, and if that is saving money

622
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 3: or if that is just having like a simpler life

623
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 3: or having like less clutter in your home, just you know,

624
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 3: maybe find like minded people. My Facebook group for the

625
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 3: Non Consumer Advocate has more than eighty thousand people in it,

626
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 3: and if you need inspiration or if you need a

627
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 3: question answered, it is a really good place to come.

628
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you feel like there's overlap between the minimalism

629
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,959
Speaker 1: movement and the non consumer movement? Are those similar or

630
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: are those like? Yeah, just I guess I'm curious how much,

631
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: like if we're talking Vin diagrams, like we're discussing earlier,

632
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: how much overlap is there between those two?

633
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 3: There is absolutely overlap. Having too much stuff, I mean,

634
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 3: everything you have in your home, unless you know you're

635
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 3: garbage picking, is stuff that you paid for. It is

636
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 3: money that you spent. And a lot of times people

637
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 3: hold on to that stuff because there's that sunk cost

638
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 3: where they're like, well, I paid good money for that.

639
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 3: Yes I don't like it, but you know, I'm going

640
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 3: to hold on to it because you don't want to

641
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 3: admit that, you know, the mistake that you made. But

642
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 3: having less stuff, having a less cluttered home is something

643
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 3: that a lot of people want. It's easier to have

644
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 3: friends over, to have house guests. Having a cluttered home

645
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 3: or feeling like you do not have like a home

646
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 3: that you can welcome people into is a very isolating

647
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 3: thing for a lot of people. With the Internet and

648
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 3: social media, we see a curated vision of how other

649
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 3: people are living, and it makes people feel bad about

650
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 3: their own messy lives.

651
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, And essentially what you're getting at is like the

652
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 2: sunk cost fallacy, the desire for folks to not want

653
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 2: to admit that they're wrong. Essentially, and when presented with

654
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 2: new data, with new facts, sometimes we have to be like, oh,

655
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 2: I'm going to change my mind. Oh I don't actually

656
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 2: need this thing in my life, and if that means

657
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 2: I have to take a loss in order to get

658
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 2: rid of it. Sometimes we have to let go over egos,

659
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 2: which I think maybe that might be what you're speaking

660
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 2: to a little bit here.

661
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 3: It is emotionally painful to let go of it, it is,

662
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 3: but the more you do it, the more you acclimate

663
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 3: yourself to like, yeah, I felt bad about getting rid

664
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 3: of those boots that you know, we're always so uncomfortable.

665
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 3: You can get rid of them and you do survive

666
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 3: that process.

667
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true, all right, So I want to ask

668
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: you too something super practical.

669
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 2: Matt and I.

670
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: We just did a whole episode about butchering your grocery

671
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: bill and you I've like followed your grocery buying routine.

672
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: You call it disjointed, but because you drive through a

673
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: bunch of different places to get the best price on

674
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: each item. So I am curious to know. I'm sure

675
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: it's a little different than what my grocery routine looks like. Well,

676
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: what's the Katie Wolk Stanley approach to buying food without

677
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: spending too much money?

678
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 3: I do buy different grocery items from different places. And

679
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 3: that sounds like just if you just look at that

680
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 3: for face value, then it would be a lot of

681
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 3: time and a pain in the tuhus. But in fact,

682
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 3: it really isn't because I work it into like the

683
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 3: routine of like what is already happening. I'm not spending

684
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 3: like twelve hours a day going to different grocery stores,

685
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 3: but like, we go through a lot of bananas here

686
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,359
Speaker 3: and Trader Joe's it must be a lost leader. They

687
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 3: saw him for nineteen cents apiece, which means you can

688
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 3: choose the big ones. Yeah, do that on my way

689
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 3: to the store. That's a grocery liquidator here in Portland, Oregon,

690
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: and I call it a dented vegetable store. But they

691
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 3: always have like those great big packs of like organic

692
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 3: mixed screens that are like six seven dollars. At least

693
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 3: in the store they have them for two bucks nice

694
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 3: sometimes one dollar they'll have so I'll go there. I

695
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 3: can't get all of my stuff there, but I have

696
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 3: walked in and ended up walking out with like a

697
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 3: flat of strawberries for two dollars. But it's one of

698
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 3: those things like you better be ready to make jam

699
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 3: that day. They're going to get me two days out

700
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 3: of these without.

701
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: You know, which just means you have to be ready

702
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: to be resourceful with the things that you're buying. And

703
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 1: I think that's great, and I think that is is

704
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: because of our like on demand society, constantly connected to technology,

705
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: it's it's harder to be a resourceful person. We have

706
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: to kind of like build that up in ourselves because

707
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: it just doesn't come naturally. So I love kind of

708
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 1: you're pushing us in that kind of into into that realm.

709
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: But we've got a couple more questions we're going to

710
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 1: get to with you, Katie. I specifically want to talk

711
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: about the do without part of your Moniker and like

712
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,479
Speaker 1: how you know when you should just do without, because

713
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 1: that is something that we're not great at in our society.

714
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: So we'll get some questions on that and more right

715
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: after this.

716
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 2: Right we are still talking with Katie will Stanley just

717
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 2: about some of the different ways we can all implement

718
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: some frugalness into our lives. And Katie, you know you

719
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 2: touched on this in the last section. We were kind

720
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 2: of talking about finding that balance between time and money essentially,

721
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 2: and for folks recommended what you said is that for

722
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 2: folks maybe who have less time, one of the things

723
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 2: that we can do is to just generally speak and

724
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 2: we can buy less, right, because that's something essentially that

725
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 2: we can all remove stuff.

726
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 3: You don't have to make as much money.

727
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and nor does it take any time to not

728
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 2: buy something. When you go out to flip something, you know,

729
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 2: on eBay or like all that takes some time. It

730
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 2: takes being resourceful, but actually not buying something that it's

731
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 2: a it's the absence, it's the absence of time.

732
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 3: A good example for that is I don't know if

733
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 3: you know who Amy decision is. She wrote the Titwad Gazette.

734
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 1: That's like an old school thing.

735
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:42,439
Speaker 3: In the archives here.

736
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

737
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 3: And she wrote in one of her books that she

738
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 3: did a lot of interviews and a lot of she

739
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 3: was filmed for, you know, a lot of TV segments,

740
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 3: and they always wanted to see her actively doing something

741
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 3: that would save her money. And she said the thing

742
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 3: that she wanted to do was to the kids up

743
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 3: in the car and drive past like McDonald's and just

744
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 3: show that she wasn't going there. Yeah, but that doesn't

745
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 3: make like a gripping visual image like here I am.

746
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 2: It's so true though, Yeah, I mean that's like, that's

747
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 2: what you're talking about. That Like essentially that's the do

748
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 2: without part of your motto. And I mean just generally

749
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 2: speaking as a society, like self self deprivation. It's not

750
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 2: something that we're that we're great at, but it is

751
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 2: obviously when you were you.

752
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 3: Know, that's not an easy message to sell.

753
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 2: No, right, it's not sexy. You can't market it. Like

754
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 2: what advertiser is going to get behind you if you're

755
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 2: going to say to what you should really be doing

756
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 2: is just generally speaking, by less stuff. But what I

757
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: would love to hear from you, though, what are some

758
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 2: purchases that folks maybe make occasionally or routinely either way,

759
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 2: but that they're making that you think folks maybe should

760
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 2: consider forgoing all together.

761
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 3: That that's not an easy answer. That's a hard one

762
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 3: because it's so individualized. Like, for you two, spending money

763
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 3: on craft beer is absolutely worth it to you. That

764
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 3: brings you pleasure, there's satisfaction in that. To me, I

765
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 3: don't really like to drink, and so to me that

766
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 3: would be an absolute waste of money. I'd sooner throw

767
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 3: it like down the sink as I would to drink it.

768
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 2: I know, blasphemy here, Yes, yes, you donate it. This

769
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 2: is the last time.

770
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 3: This work. You know, that's a hard one. For some family,

771
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 3: like doing international travel is a priority for them to

772
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:41,240
Speaker 3: expose themselves and their children to different cultures in the world,

773
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 3: and for them, they're going to make sacrifices in their

774
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 3: everyday life that make that possible. And for somebody else,

775
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,760
Speaker 3: perhaps who's more of a homebody, like doing the things

776
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 3: that give them comfort in the home means they do

777
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 3: not have that money to internationally travel. But they you know,

778
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 3: that's not what they want anyway. I really think that

779
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 3: people think that living below your means it equates to deprivation,

780
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 3: and that's absolutely not true. I mean it's hard to

781
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,959
Speaker 3: you know, look at the numbers. It's an unpaid it's

782
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 3: like a painful thing to do. All right, this is

783
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 3: the money we have coming in. This is the money

784
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 3: that we have going out. What is you know, how

785
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 3: much do we have? It's looking at that, looking at

786
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 3: the hard numbers and that look in the mirror to

787
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 3: see like what money do you have and what is

788
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 3: it that you value? Is it savings? Is it college

789
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 3: funds for your kids? Is it travel? Is it helping

790
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 3: family members who maybe need that help you know they're

791
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 3: at a stage of life.

792
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, well no, I think that's that's so true, and

793
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 2: I appreciate that that approach. I mean, what I'm hearing

794
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 2: is that you're not a hater, which I mean, that's

795
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 2: that's where we tend to fall. Because if it's something

796
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,760
Speaker 2: that's important to you, I think you can almost justify

797
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 2: any expense out there if your heart is in the

798
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 2: right place, if it's something that you value and if

799
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 2: you and if you yeah, exactly if you've planned for.

800
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: It, the problem is mostly get on credit, haven't played

801
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,399
Speaker 1: for it, and so we're just spending like everyone else

802
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: around us, and we haven't done the deep work just

803
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: to really think about what does move the needle in

804
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: our lives, so that we can really spend intentionally there

805
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: and then start to curb spending in other areas that

806
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: maybe just weren't providing much bang for the buck, like

807
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 1: even something as simple as going to get a haircut

808
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: like every six or eight weeks or something like that.

809
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: Think about how that kind of money adds up. I'm guessing, Katie,

810
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: you don't pay someone else to cut your hair, right.

811
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 3: Well, I used to, and I think I've heard that

812
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 3: you do this also Jole the Supercuts training center. Yes,

813
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 3: I use That's how I would get my haircut, and

814
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 3: I would like badger the kids to get their haircut

815
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:48,720
Speaker 3: that way as well.

816
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 2: Free haircut.

817
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 3: And again you get the free haircut and then you

818
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 3: tip yep, and so yes, you're spending five dollars, but

819
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 3: they're not used to get a tip at all, and

820
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 3: so they're always really happy to get that.

821
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 2: Do you tip them before they start cutting your hair?

822
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 2: That way, they try a little extra, a little harder.

823
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 3: That is a good tip. But no. But the thing

824
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 3: is that that my one it seems to have gone dormant.

825
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 3: I can't figure it out. But I did get a

826
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 3: coupon for like Great Clips for ten ninety nine, so

827
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 3: I went in and I did that, and again, I

828
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 3: you know, I tipped well, I tipped not based on

829
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,439
Speaker 3: a ten ninety nine haircut. Yeah, and I also very

830
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 3: infrequently get my haircut. I let it get long and

831
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:30,439
Speaker 3: straggly and they chuck it off. Again.

832
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 2: That's that's my current approach. Yes, So I've got my

833
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 2: own hair since I was in middle school, Katie, and

834
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 2: since the pandemic started. I was one of those that

835
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 2: was like, all right, I'm going to do the long

836
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 2: hair thing and we'll see how much longer it lasts.

837
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 2: Now it's getting a little unruly.

838
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: Getting close to his touch, It's true, said on it.

839
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,760
Speaker 2: I almost can's that's getting getting problematic, Katie. You mentioned

840
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 2: your kids right, like you were trying to get them

841
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,919
Speaker 2: to also attend the Great Clips. But I know that

842
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 2: you're essentially you're an empty nester.

843
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 3: Now essentially they stopped by to look in the fridge,

844
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 3: very fruit hang out.

845
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I mean, you know, and you've got your husband.

846
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,479
Speaker 2: When y'all like, did it ever cause problems? I guess

847
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 2: like your your frugal tendencies, did it ever cause any

848
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 2: family strife as you're trying to take the thermostat down

849
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 2: make it a little bit colder, or if you are

850
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 2: just all the different ways that you're trying to save money,

851
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 2: I'm curious.

852
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 1: When you sell everyone's pants, like is that ruining family

853
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:27,320
Speaker 1: relationships or anything?

854
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, how did you avoid that conflict?

855
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say that has ever caused strife, as that

856
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 3: is you know, a strong word to use. I would

857
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 3: say more that you know, no teenager ever wants to

858
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 3: be told no. And so whether or not you are

859
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 3: somebody who does traditional shopping where you're going to take

860
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 3: the kids to the mall, you're going to go to

861
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 3: Target whatever, I mean all kids here? No. And my

862
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 3: kids were used to me. They know me, and I

863
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 3: was always saying like, you know, hey, we can go

864
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 3: to a goodwill first and see if they have what

865
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 3: you want. And you know, maybe they were grumpy times,

866
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:09,240
Speaker 3: but they knew that they would get a yes at goodwill.

867
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 3: And it doesn't take too many times of thinking like

868
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 3: oh no, I'm not getting what I want, and then

869
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 3: you end up finding something that's so expensive if you

870
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 3: had bought it new, and yet somehow you got it

871
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,720
Speaker 3: for five dollars. You know, it turns things around.

872
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: So do you feel like your kids have kind of

873
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 1: followed suit? Do they live a similar lifestyle to the

874
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: way you kind of raise them?

875
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 2: Have they come around? Yes?

876
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 3: No, I am not here to force my ways on

877
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 3: other people, even my own children, and I don't believe

878
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 3: anything good comes from forcing your point of view on

879
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:48,280
Speaker 3: other people. They both will go to Goodwill for stuff

880
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 3: or you know, they'll ask me if I can check

881
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 3: on the buy nothing group to see if somebody has

882
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 3: a such and such, but they mostly just kind of

883
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 3: don't buy a lot of stuff. Okay, one does have

884
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 3: a credit card in order to build her credit rating,

885
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 3: but neither of them have any credit debt. We were

886
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 3: able to pay for them to go to college just

887
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 3: out of pocket through our extreme frugality, so we've set

888
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 3: them up for a really good adult life. They're not

889
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 3: starting with one hundred thousand dollars of debt, which I

890
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 3: just feel so bad for people who do not have

891
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 3: a choice about that. And they know that they're lucky

892
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,399
Speaker 3: because their friends are not in that same situation. They're

893
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 3: able to take jobs that maybe can build to like

894
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 3: better jobs and in terms of career wise because they

895
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,479
Speaker 3: can live on seventeen dollars an hour.

896
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 1: Well, I love it. I mean I love your mission, Katie.

897
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,359
Speaker 1: I love You've been out in a long time now,

898
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: through the Facebook group, your Instagram, through your blog, just

899
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: really teaching people about how to just think about purchases

900
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 1: and really life differently than kind of our modern conception

901
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 1: of it, which I really appreciate. It really fits with

902
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 1: the vibe of what Matt and I are trying to

903
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: do over here out of money. So how can our

904
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: listeners find out more about you and what you're up to.

905
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 3: Well, I blog at the Non Consumer Advocate dot com

906
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 3: for years. I blog seven days a week. I have

907
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 3: bubt that back a bit and I put up a

908
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 3: fresh blog post every Monday and then sometimes the second

909
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 3: one during the week. I am on Instagram as the

910
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 3: non Consumer Advocate or maybe non consumer you think I.

911
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 1: Know, well, link to them in the show notes so

912
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: everybody can FI find them quick.

913
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 3: I have a Facebook group and that is the Non

914
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,839
Speaker 3: Consumer Advocate. Thank you so much for having me on

915
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 3: and I hopefully was able to get the message across

916
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 3: that non consumerism isn't about being deprived, it's about saving money.

917
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 3: It's about doing that in a way that looks at

918
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:58,840
Speaker 3: like the environmental impact of our purchases, and hopefully people

919
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 3: will respond to that. And I appreciate you having me on, Katie.

920
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 1: Always glad to have you, great to chat. Thanks so

921
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 1: much for coming on. We'll talk to you soon.

922
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 2: All right, Thank you Joel Man. What a great conversation

923
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 2: we had with especially about Okay, so first this isn't

924
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 2: a big takeaway, but I love that Katie wanted to

925
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 2: provide her her two cents on the third option. Right,

926
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 2: it's not just being frugal or being cheap. There's a

927
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 2: way that you can be cheap in most people's books, right, Like,

928
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 2: according to most people, they're going to say that, man,

929
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 2: you're taking you're taking the cheap option here. But to you,

930
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 2: you're being frugal.

931
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 1: To you, you're being the non consumer. Then really, yeah,

932
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 1: you're just opting out of the game that everyone else

933
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 1: is playing, which I think is kind of Katie's main

934
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 1: message to say, like it's not just frugle or cheap,

935
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 1: it's like you can just check out of kind of

936
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: the normal path that most people take through society, which

937
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 1: is just to consume a lot more than they need to.

938
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: And she talked about that at the very end, how

939
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: that can be for environmental reasons, but it can be

940
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: for money saving reasons, and it can She's you know,

941
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: she even talked about how she was able to basically

942
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: set her kids up for a much better future because

943
00:46:58,920 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 1: she took.

944
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 2: A different path too exactly. And I think what she

945
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 2: said is also true that it oftentimes can be because

946
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 2: of the pressures of other people, like you don't want

947
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 2: to be perceived as being cheap, and because of that,

948
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 2: they're just a lot more consumption that's taking place. But well,

949
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 2: was your big take aside from that, Aside from the

950
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 2: rug versus cheap conversation, what was your big takeaway from

951
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 2: our conversation today with Katie?

952
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 1: You know, so tough to pick one thing, but when

953
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: she said that it all boils down to contentedness and

954
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: that if you are content with what you have and

955
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: with who you are, Madison Avenue can't touch you. And

956
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: I think oftentimes we are trying to fill a void

957
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: with kind of through consumerism, and we realize or typically

958
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: actually don't realize that we're not making much of a dent,

959
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 1: you know, in that void by buying things, and so

960
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: we kind of continue to try and it just never works, right.

961
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: And so I think that's a big part of kind

962
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 1: of what's going on, is that contentedness isn't terribly easy

963
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,399
Speaker 1: to come by, and a lot of people are looking

964
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: to purchases to buy their happiness and it just it

965
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 1: doesn't work. And so I think, you know, we could

966
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 1: talk about all the strategies until we're blue in the face,

967
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:13,399
Speaker 1: but if you can't find ways to be happy with

968
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: what you have and be happy with less, it's it's

969
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: going to be really hard I think for Katie's message

970
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 1: to be applicable to you.

971
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 2: Very true. Yeah, all right, so since you went with

972
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 2: like a twenty thousand foot level take away, I'll dive

973
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 2: into the granular. I'll maybe some more than nuts and bolts.

974
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 2: And specifically, when she was talking about what she is

975
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 2: willing to essentially flip and sell on eBay or Facebook marketplace,

976
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 2: that first of all, she's looking to make at least

977
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 2: fifty bucks yeap, essentially like she's not going to do

978
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,879
Speaker 2: something for just ten dollars for her it's not worth

979
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,280
Speaker 2: her time. But one of the other things she pointed

980
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 2: out is that she is not going to take something

981
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:49,959
Speaker 2: on that she has to fix. I like that because

982
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 2: I think that can also be a good rule of

983
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 2: thumb for folks who are out there and they're thinking, ah,

984
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 2: like I'm pretty good at thrifting, like I can spot

985
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 2: a good deal, or maybe hey, i'm pretty good with

986
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 2: a barkeeper's friend and I know how to shine this

987
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 2: thing up. And so I think if this is maybe

988
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 2: a tactic and approach that you're thinking about doing making

989
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 2: some additional money by selling things on eBay or Facebook,

990
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,760
Speaker 2: don't look at the different things that need fixing, because

991
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 2: I think that's when you might end up being in

992
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 2: turning into a hoarder, right, because Katy is just like

993
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 2: I'm not a hoarder. She moves things pretty.

994
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: Quickly, so like, get twenty six projects in your garage.

995
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: I know it need to be worked out. That's what

996
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 1: you that's probably what you don't want to turn into. Yeah,

997
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 1: And so I thought that was a good little nugget,

998
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: so that she's not looking necessarily to fix things, but

999
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: she will bring them in, wash them, get them cleaned up,

1000
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: and then quickly.

1001
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 2: Turn them around for a profit. Yep, but keep that

1002
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 2: in mind if you're also looking to make some extra

1003
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 2: change on the side.

1004
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 1: I think it was last year that we did to

1005
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: Sell Your Stuff challenge and a lot of listeners decided

1006
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:43,840
Speaker 1: they were going to try to sell fifty two things,

1007
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: one thing a week and see how much money that

1008
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: could make them. And so it is one of those

1009
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: things where you could even look to pick up free

1010
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: things or buy additional things that you know you can

1011
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 1: turn for a profit and add those and try to

1012
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 1: sell fifty two things this year in addition to just

1013
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 1: kind of the things that you want to declutter or

1014
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: get rid of from your own home. And then it's

1015
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 1: just that last thing keeping those tax receipts. Who knows

1016
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:08,879
Speaker 1: how much that's going to save you on taxes when

1017
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: it comes comes tax time from the stuff you're donating

1018
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 1: when you take it to goodwill. But Matt, let's get

1019
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 1: back to the beer that we had on this episode.

1020
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: This was Cloudscape IPA by New Park Brewing or your

1021
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:19,839
Speaker 1: thoughts on this one.

1022
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, First, a big thank you to Matthew. Thank you

1023
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 2: for doating this one as well as the other New

1024
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 2: Park bruise that we've had here on the show. I

1025
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 2: assume this is the single IPA version of we had

1026
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 2: a double Was it last week or a couple weeks ago?

1027
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,439
Speaker 2: But was it double cloud or I think so? Yeah?

1028
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 2: So very similar, viye, very similar. Fantastic certainly drink more

1029
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 2: like a single I guess not a double but a

1030
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 2: single IPA but which just means.

1031
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: Like less robust, less intense, but still a little easier

1032
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: to drink, packing a lot of flavor. Drinks more like

1033
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 1: a hoppy, pale ale, but fantastic it. I mean it

1034
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 1: had all of the qualities that you're looking for to

1035
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:57,359
Speaker 1: New England hazy IPA juicy, so it had a fair

1036
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 1: amount of sugar is going on, but not too sweet

1037
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: where it felt like it was just getting weighed down.

1038
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 1: And it had that nice kind of fresh crispness that

1039
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 1: you get from this hops. Yeah, really enjoyed it.

1040
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you like it?

1041
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1042
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like you said crisp. It had like a

1043
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: crispyiness to it, which usually is a word or a

1044
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: description reserved for like pillars and bloggers and stuff like that,

1045
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 1: but this was like kind of had it kind of

1046
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 1: like a crisp Bypa, which I thought was a nice

1047
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 1: little combo. It was definitely happy, definitely juicy, but had

1048
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 1: that crispiness to it at the end, which I thought

1049
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: kind of nice finish on that on this beer. For sure,

1050
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: it was fantastic. Yeah, thanks, Matthew, appreciate it. Man and

1051
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: matt that's going to do it for this episode. We'll

1052
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 1: have links up to all of Katie's resources up in

1053
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 1: the show notes up on our website at howtomoney dot com.

1054
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,919
Speaker 2: All right, buddy, So until next time, best Friends Out,

1055
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 2: Best Friends Out.