1 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: Oh, it could happen here. Which is the podcast that 2 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: this is? I'm Robert Evans with me? Are other people? Hello? 3 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: Other people? Hi? Hello? Uh so this podcast things falling 4 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: about part putting back Together? YadA, YadA YadA. Today our guest, 5 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: well not our guest. Our host is uh, the inimitable 6 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: Andrew Andrew. Hey, Hey, how's it going? What are we 7 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: talking about today? What are we learning? I'm good? I'm good? 8 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: Um today open to tackle another book kind of um. 9 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: This one's not fictional like the past two. UM. So 10 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: I do hope to like explore some of those in 11 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: the future because I think some good conversations come on 12 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: to those. This week, we're gonna be talking about Paulo 13 00:00:55,840 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: Frere and the pedagogy of the oppressed. Oh yes, for 14 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: those who don't know, Paulo Freire is Brazilian educator and 15 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: one of the leading advocates of well was a Brazilian 16 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: educator and leading advocates of critical pedagogy. Pedagogy is basically 17 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: like the study of education philosophy of education. Um. He 18 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: was born in nine and his experiences kind of led 19 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: him to that path because during his childhood and adolescents 20 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: he was falling behind in school because he was poor. 21 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: His poverty and his hunger affected his ability to learn. 22 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: And so as he got older and he got opportunities 23 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: and he was able to study and so on, and 24 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: he basically realized he needs to do more to uplift 25 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: the lives of the poor, improved lives of the poor, 26 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: um in order to facilitate better educational outcomes. As he 27 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: says and went court, I didn't understand anything because of 28 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: my hunger. I wasn't dumb, it wasn't a lack of interest. 29 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: My social condition just didn't allow me to have an education. 30 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: Experience showed me once again the relationship between social class 31 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: and knowledge. So as he progressed in his studies and 32 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: his writing and stuff, he eventually contributed to a philosophy 33 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: of education which blended classical approaches coming from Plato and 34 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: modern Marxist and post Marxist and anti clonial thinkers. When 35 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: I was reading the book, it really sort of struck me. 36 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: I've got a lot of um and a lot of 37 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: France found on vibes from his work. He died in 38 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: um r I p um, but his greatest contribution um 39 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: to me at least and to most people. It is 40 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: his book The Pedagogy of the Oppressed. In the book, 41 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:02,839 Speaker 1: he sort of explores a detailed Marxist class analysis UM 42 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: in the relationship between like the colonize and colonize, the 43 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: oppressed and the oppressed. And he talks about the banking 44 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: model of education that traditional pedagogy has spouses because it 45 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: treats the students as like this bank, this empty vessel 46 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: to be filled with knowledge. Instead, he argues for a 47 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: form of education of pedagogy that treats the lunar as 48 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: a co creator in knowledge. As far as I'm aware, UM, 49 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: and I guess it's kind of is illustrated in the 50 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: book itself. But as far as I know, Fair wasn't 51 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: an anarchist or libertarian socialist of any variety. But he 52 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: still ended up coming to some anarchic conclusions with regard 53 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: to the education system and learning and stuff. I mean 54 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: and I guess have been writing about, you know, like 55 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: youth liberation and the school system and even experimenting with 56 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: new more roles of schooling for a long time. UM. 57 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: The Freer movement, for example, experimented with implementing modern schools 58 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: in UM in the US and in Spain. And a 59 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: Goldman was very much involved in that process. And UM, 60 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: I don't think that the experiments were necessarily free of error, 61 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: but I think they did a good job of trying 62 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: something new, trying something with more liberatory in the sphere 63 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: of education, because I mean, for the past several hundred 64 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: years now, UM, we've kind of been going with this 65 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: sort of um Prussian model of education is very strict, 66 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: very regimented, very divided model of education. The rules um 67 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: to sort of ferment nationalism and division, class divisions and 68 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: stuff within the populace. So I think that any experimentation 69 00:04:55,800 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: in the more limitary and direction is a positive. In 70 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 1: the preface, um Fair sort of goes into why this 71 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: book came about. He's talking about his experience as a 72 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: teacher in Brazil the time, the observations he made well 73 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 1: in political exile, and so what he realized as a 74 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: teacher when he was teaching his students is that they 75 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: had a sort of a fair of freedom. It's not 76 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: like a real fair of freedom, it's more a fair 77 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: of the risks associated with freedom because of the experiences 78 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: and stuff that they've had. Um. What he considers the 79 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 1: most vital, however, to the education system. It's sort of 80 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: just establishing conscientious out or critical consciousness within students, a 81 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: consciousness that commits to social change and human liberation. According 82 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: to Fair, the educational model can only really be successful 83 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: if people are radicalized through it, if people are able 84 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: to see the issues in their current society, think about them, 85 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 1: stew upon them, criticize them, compare them, and look at 86 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: ways to solve them. And if they don't come up 87 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: with that sort of critical consciousness then as well for not. Basically, 88 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: education system is kind of spinning on top of mud. 89 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: I find it especially interesting that I ended up reading 90 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: this when I did, because, as we've seen in the US, 91 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: a lot of conversations are now attacking anything even approaching 92 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 1: critical consciousness with this. You know who'll debate going on 93 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 1: about critical race theory and this sort of even though 94 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: critical race theories are being taught in primary or secondary education. 95 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 1: This attack, this full front of attack and anything that 96 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: resembles critical thinking and critical study of history and of 97 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: the present m hm. So in chapter one for It 98 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: makes the case for why the patagogy Deppress is necessary. 99 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: He says, a human kind central problem is how we 100 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: affirmor identity as human beings. Everyone is trying to reach 101 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: that sort of affirmation, that sort of human identity, that 102 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: sort of human nous um. But oppression and systems of 103 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: oppression interrupt that process. They prevent people from expressing and 104 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: establishing their full humanity. Where they're talking about racism keeping 105 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: people from reaching the full potential, or sexism preventing people, 106 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: or you know, a patriarchy with the whole limitations and 107 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: such puts upon people's sexuality and gender expression and gender identification. 108 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: One of these systems of oppression are put in place 109 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: to restrict, to confine and bound us below you know, 110 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: our full potential. And so a lot of that and 111 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: a lot of the you know, cultivation and forging of 112 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: one's awareness of you know, the systems around them and 113 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: how to operate within them takes place in the education system. 114 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: And so the education system is should be one of 115 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: the critical junctures in which we which our fight for 116 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: oppressed people. There's a sort of dehumanization that it could 117 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: as a result of oppression, whether it be in the 118 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: form of comparing people to animals, as racists often do, 119 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: whether it be in the form of decreating people too 120 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: it's of childlike status which itself is a is a 121 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: form of oppression because the fact that you know, childlikeness 122 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: and youth is considered to be something less than It's 123 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: just another way they where people are oppressed, and another 124 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: way in which people are prevented from asserting their autonomy 125 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: and their humanity. Oppressors. They tend to treat people as 126 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: objects to be possessed, to see freedom as threatening, and 127 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: in turn, oppressed people end are becoming ill neated from 128 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 1: each other through oppressure and begin to see their oppressors 129 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: as something to strive towards for. It talks about how 130 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: they oppressed. The whole vision and the whole understanding of 131 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: what being human is is being like oppressors. And so 132 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: a lot of people and you see that even today, 133 00:09:55,040 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: you know, um, when they strive for freedom, they strive 134 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,439 Speaker 1: to become entrepreneurs. You know, they strive to become business owners. 135 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: They strive to become billionaires and CEOs and all these 136 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: sort of images of what, you know, what being human 137 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 1: looks like. Because people are striving to be free, and 138 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: if the only way you can get a measure of 139 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: freedom is by becoming an oppress yourself, and it makes 140 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: sense a lot of oppressive looking to try to do that. 141 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: Of course, as Fair himself says, and he oppress says 142 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: themselves are not fully free either, because by denying the 143 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: oppressed people their humanity, they robbed themselves of humanity. The 144 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: fight for liberation, as Fair argues, must consist of two stages, 145 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: reflection on the nature of oppression and the concrete action 146 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: needed to change it. And that's sort of reading that 147 00:10:56,160 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: that that line are paraphrasing, but it reminds me of 148 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 1: the process of prefigurative politics, where not only are you 149 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: bringing about the consciousness of people to recognize these systems 150 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: of oppression and understand how they operate, but the concrete 151 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: action to change it is one that is intended to 152 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: reflect the society that we wish to establish in the future. 153 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: Fare does one um that, you know, leaders and stuff 154 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: must engage in dialogue with oppressed people rather than becoming 155 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: like oppressors. But as the book goes on, I think 156 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: he relies a bit too much on this concept of 157 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: leaders as well. He wants against them existing above the people, 158 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: but he's still sort of uphold that distinction between the 159 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: leaders and the people. As the book progresses, um he 160 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: begins to compare the concept of the banking model to 161 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 1: the concept of the problem posing model of education. As 162 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:10,079 Speaker 1: he calls it. In the banking model um quote, he 163 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: the teacher talks about reality as if it were motionless, static, compartmentalized, 164 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: and predictable. Where Else he expands upon a topic completely 165 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: alien to the existential experience of the students. His task 166 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: is to fill the students with the contents of his narration, 167 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: contents which are detached from reality, disconnected from the totality 168 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: that engendered them. I could give them significance. Words are 169 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: emptied of their concreteness and become a hollow, alienated, and 170 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: alienating verbocity any being that sentence is quite proposed. But 171 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: on the contrary, banking education maintains and even stimulates the 172 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: contradiction to the following attitudes and practices, which mirror oppressive 173 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: society as a whole. The teacher teachers, and the students 174 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: are taught. The teacher knows everything, and the student knows nothing. 175 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: Teacher thinks and the students are thought about. Teacher talks 176 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: and the students listen meekly. The teacher disciplines, and the 177 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: students are disciplined. Teacher chooses and enforces his choice, and 178 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: the students comply. The teacher acts, and the students have 179 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: the illusion of acting through the action of the teacher. 180 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 1: Teacher chooses the program content and the students, who were 181 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: not consulted, adapt to it. The teacher confuses the authority 182 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: of knowledge with his or her own professional authority, which 183 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: they set in opposition to the freedom of the students. 184 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: The teachers the subjective learning process while the pupils and 185 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: their objects. I think um Flaire needed to incorporate some 186 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: more gender neutral language and that so I had to 187 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: kind of correct him there. Um. But that quote, that 188 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: that quote in full, it really reminds me, um of 189 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: my schooling experience. UM. As some people they knew I 190 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: was actually home schooled for the majority of my learning experience. 191 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:13,439 Speaker 1: I actually didn't know that. Oh oh now you know, Yeah, 192 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: so I was. I was home schooled, um for I woulday, 193 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: the majority of my education experience. And then after I 194 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: went into college and stuff. But before then, I didn't, 195 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: um make it through the school system. And even though 196 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: it was a really long time ago, my memories are 197 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: still crystal clear of that process. You know, UM, I 198 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: remember seeing students being disciplined, Um I myself was kind 199 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: of a teacher's pet. But that doesn't surprise me, and 200 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: the best possible way I'm not sure I to take it, 201 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: I'll take it in a good way because me not 202 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: me also doesn't surprise teachers or cops. Yeah, this is 203 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: my pre anarchists. I wasn't you know, I didn't. I 204 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: wasn't jumping out the booth canal with a black flag, 205 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: you know. Unfortunately a cab includes the person who tried 206 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: to get me to read Catcher in the Rye was 207 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: a good book. It was a good, perfectly fine book. 208 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: I'm just being an asshole. But but like Andrew, what 209 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: are you alluding here? Is that like stoicism is something 210 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: that is weaponized in the education system. Stoicism, stoicism being 211 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: like no emotion delivering like right right, right, because I 212 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: was thinking the philosophy, but because you're like a vessel 213 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: for quote unquote facts and knowledge to be like injected 214 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: into you for you to like hold as as Yeah, 215 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: it's we're seeing a resurgence in this type of saying 216 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: all the albeit probably a little bit less eloquently stated 217 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: in some of like the anti schooling anarchist literature. That's 218 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: been coming out in the past few years, or at 219 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: least has been gaining more traction the past few years. 220 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: M Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because this and that's kind 221 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: of that's kind of the funny thing about it, because 222 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: most people in their school and experience can recall it 223 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: being in some ways negative, even if they look at 224 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: it in a positive light. We can at least, even 225 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: if they don't go in that fully radical direction, most 226 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: people can look at some of the elements to their schooling, 227 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: of the education and see that that wasn't right. You know, 228 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: it's something messed up about that, even something as simple 229 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: as having to like ask, you know, the teacher to 230 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: go on and use the toilet. It's just this is 231 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: those sorts of little ways of control, like as I 232 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: was seeing in my school and experience back when I 233 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: was in primary school. I was very adorable. I'm sure 234 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: I could guess, but I remember seeing these students being disciplined. 235 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: They had the bell had rung for um, you know, 236 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 1: the end of break, and he supposed to, you know, 237 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 1: fire back into class. But I think there was a 238 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,479 Speaker 1: school next door that was having some kind of events 239 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: and they were playing like music, and so a bunch 240 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: of students in my class. Not me, but a bunch 241 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: of students in my class were you know, um, dancing 242 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: at the side of the school, enjoying the music, having 243 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: a good time or whatever. Um. They heard the bell 244 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: and they didn't go because they were, you know, they 245 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 1: were having a good time. They were like six seven eight, um. 246 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: But then afterwards the teacher, after you know, I sit 247 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: down and stuff, leacher goes and finds them and brings 248 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: them in. And this is prior to at least of 249 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: my knowledge, prior to the corporal punishment being phased out 250 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: of school. So I just remember seeing them having to 251 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: you know, like lay out their hand and receive punishment 252 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: for daring to have joy after hours, you know, daring 253 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: to enjoy themselves. Um, what it was supposed to be 254 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: class time and they're supposed to be in class. I'm 255 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: sure people have similar experiences, at least of a kind 256 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: of punishment and controul. I mean, this is not the 257 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: same kind of punishment, but I think to your point 258 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: of being controlled, like even just like not even being 259 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 1: aware of it, just like being forced to stand up 260 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: and say the pudge of allegiance. In America, for example, 261 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,439 Speaker 1: it becomes this like repetitive culty thing every morning that 262 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,239 Speaker 1: you're expected to do and if you don't do it, 263 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 1: um personal experience. If you refuse to do that, you 264 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: have to go to the principal's office and explain why 265 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: it happens over and over again. And I think it's 266 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: like you're you're questioned and you're punished even for like thinking, 267 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: not like differently, or questioning not even thinking, just questioning reality. Yeah, yeah, 268 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 1: yeah yeah. And in Syria when I was I went 269 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: to school in Syria when I was really small and 270 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: me my sister ate really slow and we would get 271 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: hit with a ruler on our hands because we did 272 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: we didn't finish lunch fast enough. Um. So yeah, mine 273 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 1: isn't that intense. But the school I went to when 274 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: I was a little kid in Oklahoma, number one, they 275 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: paddled us. That was legal as a public school. But 276 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: my first grade teacher was obsessed with the fact that 277 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: like it was bad to be left handed, and you know, 278 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: she couldn't, she couldn't do the ship that they used 279 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 1: to do right. They used to like funck kids up 280 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: for using their left hands. But she would every single 281 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 1: day like chide me and tell me that I should 282 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: use my right hand to write and stuff that it 283 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: wasn't like proper that it was like bad that I 284 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: could if you if you if you're not aware, if 285 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: you're not left handed, when you're like do stuff with 286 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: a pencil and you're left handed, you get a bunch 287 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: of like, yeah, pencil stuff on your on the side 288 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: of your hand. Right. It's just like because of the 289 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: way that unless you're using like those weird left handed 290 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: notebooks and ship which no one ever has. UM, and 291 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: she would like she gave me so much ship for 292 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: being dirty because like I would get stuff on my hand. 293 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: It was just like when I tell people that, it's 294 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: like really, this was like the nineties. Yeah, there's there's 295 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: a few of those folks left. I think she was 296 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,199 Speaker 1: extremely Catholic, UM, and I know none seems to go 297 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: on that stuff. I didn't know that Catholic people cared 298 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: about the left handed thing. Catholic Catholic schools. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 299 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say that, like it's I don't think there's 300 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: anything and like the Catechism about not being left handed 301 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: right right. I mean like in some very strict Muslim culture, 302 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: a lot of it is like phased out but for example, 303 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: your left hand isn't meant to be used as the 304 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 1: primary hand because it's like a dirty hand, like the 305 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: one you wipe yourself with. Ye. Yeah, there's a lot, 306 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: but like I know you were handed though. Yikes. Oh yes, 307 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: ye yikes, thank you, thank you. You should be concerned. 308 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: I have to makes a number of things frustrating, like 309 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,919 Speaker 1: shearing sheep anyway, whatever. Mm well, everything is designed for 310 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: right handed people for sure, Like it has everything it is. 311 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: You try to speak, but we are the master, right Okay? Sorry? 312 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: Speaking of hands, just out of curiosity, did you all 313 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:30,120 Speaker 1: have the hand up hand out experience? Hand out? What's 314 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: hand out? Basically? Um, it's just sort of a tool, 315 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: you suggest, sort of a sort of repetitive kind of 316 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,679 Speaker 1: follow instructions kind of thing. So like if the class 317 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: getting too rowdies, like hands up, hands out, hands up, 318 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: hands out, and the teacher does not stop saying it 319 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: until everyone is quiet down, and it's just like like 320 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: a robot, just reason. And I don't think i've experienced that, 321 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: I mean, are you? Um? I wasn't an assistant teacher 322 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,199 Speaker 1: at one point, and for very very young children, I'm 323 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 1: talking like four to five year olds and I understand 324 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 1: their frustration of like you're just trying to get something 325 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: done and everyone's gonna while now they just had snacks 326 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,199 Speaker 1: or whatever, and everyone's kind of wild out. But I 327 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: think that says more about like the methods we're using 328 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 1: than about the shouldering themselves. You know. It's all about, 329 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: like you have to you should adjust more to like 330 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: their cycles and their needs, their stage, rather than trying 331 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: to force and shove them into this sort of militarbotic Yeah, yeah, totally. 332 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: It's yeah, they're not allowed to actually develop naturally or 333 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: like be themselves in a setting like that. Yeah, exactly. 334 00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: I think what happens like kind of throws me. It's 335 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: like or people have these experiences traumatic and not as 336 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: dramatic in the education system, a lot of people, but 337 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: some people they come out radicalized by it, and other 338 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: people end up being the like most stringent and most 339 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: passionate advocates of it. Like even like this Catholic school 340 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:28,360 Speaker 1: teacher you're talking about, Robert, Like at some point she 341 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 1: was also in the education system, and it really makes 342 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: me wonder like what she went through to have to 343 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 1: come up with that kind of mindset. Yeah, I mean, 344 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: I think she'd grown up in Oklahoma too, so it 345 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: must have been a nightmare, like everything in that state. Yeah, 346 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: like why does it have a panhandle anyway? Um, I 347 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 1: mean the there is a reason for that, and it's 348 00:23:54,240 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: not fun, but okay, I'm assuming it's slavery. Any fucked 349 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 1: up geographic thing going on in the South, the reason 350 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: is generally slavery. Yeah, right, right, right right. And so 351 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: she spends a lot of time talking about this banking model, 352 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 1: and we could go on and on about it. I 353 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time just talking about the education 354 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: system all my problems with it, and at some point 355 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,160 Speaker 1: I would like to do an episode about differ rare 356 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: schools and part of how those sort of transpired. But 357 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: what Fair proposes um as an alternative is the problem 358 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:43,199 Speaker 1: posing model, which is, basically, through dialogue, the teacher and 359 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: the students ceased to exist. The teacher of the students 360 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: and the students of the teachers ceased to exist. So 361 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: instead of there being these two separate categories they are 362 00:24:55,160 --> 00:25:01,360 Speaker 1: teacher students and student teachers. There's no operation anymore between 363 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: the one who teaches and the one who has taught. Rather, 364 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: there's a dialogue between the two as they become part 365 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: of this process where all of them can grow. You know, 366 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: you let go of this sort of authoritarian arrangements and 367 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: allow people to teach and be taught two, learn and 368 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: be learned. Two really draw out what it is that 369 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: we have to gain from each other. Rather than being 370 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: sort of docile listeners, the students and the teachers, the 371 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,959 Speaker 1: student teachers teacher students, they become co investigators in dialogue, 372 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: they become critics. They become radicals who are able to 373 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: open up and depathologize the way that reality works with 374 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 1: human beings exist in the world. Banking education tends to 375 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 1: inhibit creativity and try to domesticate our consciousness. Throw back 376 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: to when I was talking about human investication the other day. Um. 377 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 1: But in contrast, in the problem posing model tries to 378 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: it really bases itself on creativity and stimulates rather than domestication, 379 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: a sort of a full flourishing of what someone could 380 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: be unbound and unshackled. So, in summary, banking theory is immobilizing. 381 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: It's it's fixating. It doesn't acknowledge people as people but 382 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: rather objects, whereas the problem posing model it takes people's historicity, 383 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: it takes people's humanity the starting point upon which they 384 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 1: can grow and learn from each other. I think that's 385 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: what frustrated me the most about the education system in 386 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: the time that I was in it, and even when 387 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 1: I got back in it in college, even though it's 388 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: not as bad in some ways, because you know, in 389 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 1: college they tend to emphasize dialogue a bit more on 390 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 1: certain classes. But I find the issue is that there's 391 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 1: this assumption in you know, the earlier sections of schooling, 392 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: in the secondary school and primary school and even preschool 393 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: that the children, the youth, you know, they're not there 394 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:44,360 Speaker 1: to have anything to add. They're just there to recogitate, 395 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: to to study, and to repeat what they've studied for approval, 396 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: not just something I definitely did back in the day. 397 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: If what's lacking is dialogue, a dialogue that buyers you know, 398 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: hoop and trust and critical thinking, then liberation you would 399 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: also be lacking. There can't be dialogue without love for 400 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: the world and for people, and for knowledge and for 401 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: bring that knowledge out to people. So as for our says, 402 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: you know, love is at the same time the foundation 403 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: of dialogue and dialogue itself. On the other hand, dialogue 404 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: kind of exists without humility, the naming of the world 405 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: through which people constantly recreate that world cannot be an 406 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: act of arrogance. I remember encountering a lot of arrogance 407 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: teachers and lecturers and stuff in my time to the 408 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: education system. Um are being condescended to multiple occasions, and 409 00:28:55,440 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: that's the thing. Nobody likes being condescended to. But condescension 410 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: is kind of the default way in which we engage 411 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: with young people, just sort of there's this projected ignorance 412 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: upon them, is that they have nothing of value to 413 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: add or to share. Another contrary, you know, we all 414 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: have something to contribute. If we all closed off, and 415 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: if we are closed off to the contributions of others, 416 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: we can't engage in dialogue with them. If we are fearful, 417 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: if we are um considering people to be like inferior 418 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: in some ways, if we cannot embrace people as equals, 419 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: and how can we engage in dialogue with that? I 420 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: think there's a beauty in the way that he reflects 421 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: on dialogue. He goes on and on about it for 422 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: quite a while. At one point, he says that dialogue 423 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: requires an intense faith in humankind, faith in their power 424 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: to make and rea to create and recreate faith in 425 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: their vocation to be more fully human, which is not 426 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: the privilege of an elite, but the birthright of all. 427 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: And So, finally, when he's talking about action and how 428 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: um this sort of change is brought about, he divides 429 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: cultural action into two kinds, dialogical action and anti dieological action. 430 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: While oppressors use antideological action to protect their power and 431 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: to separate people, radicals can use dialogical action to bring 432 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: people together in the struggle for freedom as a different 433 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: methods of antideological action. Through conquest, through divide and rule, 434 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: through manipulation, through cultural invasion, oppressors were able to put 435 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: the oppressed in the predicament of there in. You know, 436 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: the oppressed wouldn't be the oppressed if not for the 437 00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: oppressors oppressing them. That's kind of self explanatory. Um. But 438 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: in contrast, radicals from among the oppressed, using biological action, 439 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: using cooperation, unity, organization, and cultural synthesis are able to 440 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: rise above and push back against this oppression and to 441 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: allow education to flourish among all. And So I think 442 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: that's the beauty of the text um, the hope that 443 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: it abuse in people to really bring about these changes, 444 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 1: and I think it was a good reading five outs 445 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: of five excellent. And it's not very long, right, it's 446 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: like under two from what I yes, yes, it's like 447 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: four short chapters reatively. Sure. I know back when you 448 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: were talking about how um people are sectors of the 449 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: right specifically are so set on a acting like anything 450 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: related to like critical theory or critical race theory. Um. 451 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: I the the book was was banned like like a 452 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: decade and like over decade ago from the Arizona Schools 453 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: for teaching students that they are oppressed. Well, uh yeah, 454 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: that's that's how you know, that's to be expected. It's 455 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: a good book. Yeah, yeah, so that's anyway, just a 456 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: just a fun fun fact there. Yeah, we can't we 457 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: can't have kids knowing that, uh, they have shared interests 458 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: as a group, um, and that adults are mistreating them comprehensively. 459 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: That's good. Yeah. God just reminded me of so many 460 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: just moments that mean teachers like really got into it, 461 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: or like the teachers that were condescending that I hated. 462 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: I have to really go through the role dex and 463 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: try to get this out now after we finished recording. Well, listen, 464 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: if you're a child. Why are you listening to this 465 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: rise up in rebellion? Uh destroy the adults. Their joints 466 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 1: are terrible. Hit him in the knees. They won't recover. 467 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: My joints are terrible. Exactly, some fucking nine year old 468 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: wax you in the knee with like are down. You're 469 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: out of the game. No, I know. My kids would 470 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: break embrace the ancient traditions, make les, and go for 471 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: the fucking joints. Yeah, children of the world, you have 472 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: nothing to lose, which at bed times, that's that's it 473 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 1: could Happen here production. For more podcasts on pool Zone Media, 474 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: visit our website pool zone media dot com or check 475 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 476 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources 477 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: for It could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone 478 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.