Speaker 1: Are you needing a save space to learn how you
Speaker 1: can get your mind right? Tune into Emani's State of Mind,
Speaker 1: a weekly podcast hosted by psychiatrist and TV personality doctor
Speaker 1: Imani Walker and co host comedian Meg scoop Thomas, two smart,
Speaker 1: successful women and mothers sharing their personal and professional experiences
Speaker 1: to help normalize conversations around mental health. This is not
Speaker 1: your average mental health show. Each week they break down
Speaker 1: what's happening in news, pop culture, and their very own
Speaker 1: experiences managing mental health. Together, you will laugh, keep it real,
Speaker 1: and create a safe space where everyone can get help
Speaker 1: with their issues. Nothing is off the table. Doctor Emani
Speaker 1: Walker and Meg Scoop Thomas discuss everything from relationships with yourself,
Speaker 1: with your spouse, and your parents, to the realities of
Speaker 1: postpartum depression and anxiety. Do not forget to take a
Speaker 1: deep breath, find your calm, and get into Emani's State
Speaker 1: of Mind. With new episodes dropping every Friday wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. The first vote by mail ballots are
Speaker 1: hitting people's mailboxes and the earliest in person early voting
Speaker 1: starts this week. Do you know how you're voting? If
Speaker 1: your answer is, it's September. I haven't thought about it.
Speaker 1: I'd like, Am I going to go to my Halloween
Speaker 1: party's dresses? Mando? Am I going to go as a
Speaker 1: character from Legally Blonde? I haven't decided yet. To get
Speaker 1: off my back. This is the week to get your
Speaker 1: shit together on both counts, both for voting and for
Speaker 1: your Halloween costume. Voter suppression efforts have ramped up following
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty election, making an even more critical to
Speaker 1: ensure that every American has access to the ballot box.
Speaker 1: At vote save America, you can find the most up
Speaker 1: to date information on what you need to make sure
Speaker 1: your vote is counted in all fifty states and the
Speaker 1: District of Columbia give Puerto Rico the statehood as well.
Speaker 1: Use our ballot Ready tool to request your ballot, find
Speaker 1: out how you can return it or get a reminder
Speaker 1: for when in person early voting locations become available in
Speaker 1: your state. To win in November, it's going to take
Speaker 1: every single one of us making our plan to vote,
Speaker 1: getting involved, and reminding everyone we know to do the same.
Speaker 1: Once you've made your plan to vote, visit vote Saveamerica
Speaker 1: dot com slash every last vote to find out what
Speaker 1: you can do next, including donating to the Every Last
Speaker 1: Vote Fund to directly support the work of community organizations, organizers,
Speaker 1: and volunteers in states that are actively working to battle
Speaker 1: disenfranchisement in communities of color, including in Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan,
Speaker 1: and more. Warning, this podcast contains spoilers for She Hulk
Speaker 1: episode six and and Or episodes one through three. We're
Speaker 1: releasing two episodes this week, so be sure to check
Speaker 1: out both for our full conversation. Hello, my name is
Speaker 1: Jason Sepsio, and welcome to X ray Vision, the Crooked
Speaker 1: podcast where we're deep it's your favorite shows, movies, comments,
Speaker 1: and pop culture. On episode two this week, the episode
Speaker 1: you're listening to, we are talking to Shee Hulk head
Speaker 1: writer Jessica Gal and we will be discussing She Hulk
Speaker 1: episode six with it, which is a crazy crazy it
Speaker 1: just goes crazy. The episode goes crazy. And we will
Speaker 1: be discussing the latest entry in Star Wars television and
Speaker 1: or episodes one through three or out now on Disney Plus,
Speaker 1: so we'll be talking about that in a more general
Speaker 1: way to give you give you all time to digest
Speaker 1: the episodes. Then we'll be going on a deeper dive
Speaker 1: in weeks to come, and of course joining us today
Speaker 1: is Rosie Dyke.
Speaker 2: It's me.
Speaker 3: I'm hey yeah. Let's go.
Speaker 1: As always, everyone, check the show notes for the time stamps.
Speaker 1: If you want to jump around and listen to the
Speaker 1: things that you want to listen to. Let's go back
Speaker 1: into the courtroom or the wedding, the wedding hall, whatever
Speaker 1: the case may be, and talk about She Haul. Episode six,
Speaker 1: Episode six, Just Jen, written by Cara Brown directed by
Speaker 1: Anu Vallia lots to get into quick recap. Jen has
Speaker 1: to go to a wedding where she discovers that her
Speaker 1: arch rival, her arch foe, Titanya, is also a wedding guest,
Speaker 1: and is this some sort of part of this some
Speaker 1: sort of plot for Titanya to defeat Jen publicly in
Speaker 1: front of everyone. And then back in the law firm,
Speaker 1: Mallory and Nicki are dealing with the case of a
Speaker 1: gentleman who goes by the name of mister Immortal Dun
Speaker 1: Dun Dun dud du Duh, who cannot die because you know,
Speaker 1: according to the comics, he's a flat out mutant and
Speaker 1: he has been using this power to not die to
Speaker 1: you fraud, various romantic partners and business partners by quote
Speaker 1: unquote faking his death. Lots to get into, so let's
Speaker 1: just get into it. Fun episode once again.
Speaker 3: This is just such a fun show, and I feel
Speaker 3: like I'm really impressed by how much fun they have
Speaker 3: digging into the weirder parts of Marvel. Like, obviously, mister Moore,
Speaker 3: that's a big deal. So technically he is everyone in
Speaker 3: the Marvel universe sees him as a mutant, and technically
Speaker 3: he is a mutant. But the thing that's really interesting
Speaker 3: is he is the only member of the evolutionary race
Speaker 3: known as the Homo Supreme, so he's like one above
Speaker 3: a mutant, but he is for all extents and purposes
Speaker 3: and presents as Homo Superior, which is a mutant. So yeah,
Speaker 3: it's it. That's just like huge to have him here
Speaker 3: and also just use it in such an absolutely hilarious
Speaker 3: she Hulk way where it's like this guy has been
Speaker 3: defrauding people he loves because he can't have confrontation by
Speaker 3: just killing himself. It's like really bleak but also very
Speaker 3: hilarious and very comic.
Speaker 4: Bookie, and he he is like this is an extremely
Speaker 4: big episode in a lot of ways, because it shows
Speaker 4: us not only that the creative team here obviously absolutely hilarious.
Speaker 1: But also this is the most comic book nerdy. Yeah, Like, like.
Speaker 3: He talks about when he's there, he's talking about how
Speaker 3: he's got a lot of money, right, and part of
Speaker 3: how he got a lot of money is because his
Speaker 3: ex wife left him a bunch of gold Baroness Cromwell
Speaker 3: aka Baroness Blood. So this is just like they were
Speaker 3: just like, yeah, go for it. They were like, so,
Speaker 3: tell us, who are up.
Speaker 1: Tell us who Baroness Blood is, and then let's dive
Speaker 1: into the really actually quite funny backstory of who mister
Speaker 1: Immortal is, at least in the comic.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, Baroness Blood is like a really weird, creepy
Speaker 3: character who was first introduced hilariously in everyone's favorite comic
Speaker 3: Uni and Jack Number one. So she's actually from nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety eight, which isn't obviously that far away, but she
Speaker 3: is part of now like most well known as a
Speaker 3: part of the Legion of the Unliving, which is like
Speaker 3: a group of vampires who were brought together by Dracula.
Speaker 3: So you can basically say, like we've had a Donnie
Speaker 3: Blaze Johnny Blaze joke, in this season, we're now getting
Speaker 3: into the realm where vampires probably exist.
Speaker 1: They're now just mutant surgery casually.
Speaker 3: Not only that, but as we as we guess, so
Speaker 3: I'm taking this as we were right. We said post
Speaker 3: Miss Marvel, what they were going to do was just
Speaker 3: introduce random mutants here and there. They're gonna say, here's
Speaker 3: a mutant, here's someone who's been living with these crazy powers,
Speaker 3: and we're just gonna build them into the the world.
Speaker 3: And that's exactly what they're doing with mister Immortal, and
Speaker 3: with the way that they're just casually kind of dropping
Speaker 3: in these things. I mean, Baroness Blood is like a supernatural,
Speaker 3: superpowered vampire. Makes sense that she would have married an immortal.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a that's a her cup that works.
Speaker 3: But basically you can now say that vampires one hundred
Speaker 3: percent do exist in the MCU.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this. My friends, comic book critic
Speaker 1: and sports writer Matt Turtle DMed me and he was like, hey,
Speaker 1: I think you were talking about you and Rosie were
Speaker 1: talking about why does Atlantis come to the fore. I
Speaker 1: think they're going to do when they introduce mutants. I
Speaker 1: think it's going to be similar to Atlanta's secret Society
Speaker 1: Krakoa era, and they're all there and they reveal themselves
Speaker 1: and then it's a question of how they, you know,
Speaker 1: then become part of the wider society of that's indeed
Speaker 1: what they decide to do. I kind of agree that
Speaker 1: I think Krikoa is going to be around. But here
Speaker 1: is what the appearance of mister Immortal suggests that, because
Speaker 1: if Krocola is a thing, then mister Immortal should be
Speaker 1: on the island, like why are you unless he's just
Speaker 1: like rejected the gift to you, Cricola, because he's already
Speaker 1: immortals that he doesn't need the crocoon gift. Here is
Speaker 1: my Here is the other thing that I think, and
Speaker 1: it you know, kind of details with mister Immortal. I
Speaker 1: do think that kroko exists, But I also think, like
Speaker 1: Warren Worthington and others, in a way that would seem
Speaker 1: insidious to the wider society, have infiltrated human culture. You
Speaker 1: know or you know or are not, have not revealed
Speaker 1: themselves to be mutants, but are around and are doing
Speaker 1: things and are some of them are powerbrokers in human society,
Speaker 1: and I think that, uh, mister Immortal maybe points the
Speaker 1: way at that. I agree it's mutants being around, but
Speaker 1: have been kind of keeping it quiet for most of
Speaker 1: human history until recently when it's like, oh, powered people
Speaker 1: are around, maybe I can start being more obvious with
Speaker 1: the things that I'm doing.
Speaker 3: No, mister Moore makes a lot of sense in that context,
Speaker 3: also because he's essentially living by what I like to
Speaker 3: call like Twilight rules, where he's basically because he's been
Speaker 3: alive for like a million years and he can never die.
Speaker 3: He's just immensely rich. So in its own way, especially
Speaker 3: in America and in like capitalism kind of culture, you
Speaker 3: have infiltrated the highest parts of society just simply by
Speaker 3: being incredibly wealthy. So that's exactly that kind of thing.
Speaker 3: And also, as we know, if GLK and H didn't exist,
Speaker 3: these women and Sebastian probably would never have actually know
Speaker 3: that he was immortal and hadn't actually died. And if
Speaker 3: they had seen the video that we will get to,
Speaker 3: the Intelligencia video, they wouldn't have had a way to
Speaker 3: get recompense. So I think that introducing this superhero law
Speaker 3: firm is a really good way of seeding exactly what
Speaker 3: you're talking about, where suddenly everyone's like, Okay, wait a minute,
Speaker 3: I had a weird experience with this person or that
Speaker 3: thing that I saw that one time, was that it
Speaker 3: was that it like that one time that I randomly
Speaker 3: don't remember something that happened when I got like men
Speaker 3: in blacked and then suddenly my memories white. Like oh,
Speaker 3: they said that was like retrograde amnesia, but maybe that
Speaker 3: was actually like a mute and with mind control powers.
Speaker 3: So this is kind of huge in that way as
Speaker 3: well as just being very fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that that paranoia is is a thing that
Speaker 1: we see a lot in X Men comics where parents
Speaker 1: are like, oh my god, I think my child might
Speaker 1: be a mutant. I think my coworker might be and
Speaker 1: it and it creates this feeling of real fear in
Speaker 1: the general population. I want to I want to note
Speaker 1: that it's it's it's remarkable to me that one we
Speaker 1: got mister immoral and he's just presented just as himself
Speaker 1: with his powers, and no one at all has been like,
Speaker 1: where did he get these? Where you're past the point
Speaker 1: in the MCU where yeah, where did they get the
Speaker 1: powers is really a question. They're just accepting that this
Speaker 1: guy can do this, and no one has thought to ask, well,
Speaker 1: how can how is he doing this?
Speaker 3: That's my favorite thing about where we are now. It's
Speaker 3: almost like with that brilliant moment at the end of
Speaker 3: Miss Marvel that we all loved so much, which was
Speaker 3: you know, it's a mutation that has basically opened the
Speaker 3: doors now for us as the viewers to just say, oh,
Speaker 3: well they might be a mutant. Oh everyone has powers now,
Speaker 3: and it is giving a lot of leeway for the
Speaker 3: show is to just say, hey, superheroes exist. You know
Speaker 3: that you've been in this world for twenty five movies.
Speaker 3: Now it's just happening. But yeah, I did find it,
Speaker 3: especially a power like being immortal, Yeah, is a pretty
Speaker 3: intense power to have.
Speaker 1: And nobody he's not an as guardian elf. No, he's
Speaker 1: not a former super soldier, he was not you know,
Speaker 1: subject to a radioactive accident. He's just running around with
Speaker 1: these very intense and yeah, nobody's talking about.
Speaker 3: Making a mallory just like so you can die, you
Speaker 3: can't die like do that like which one? Like, you know,
Speaker 3: it's very it's a very interesting time to be in
Speaker 3: the MCUs.
Speaker 1: It's great. Yeah, okay, so so much. In that last
Speaker 1: kind of stinger scene where you know, Jen is having
Speaker 1: you know, the kind of the plate of frime at
Speaker 1: the end of the wedding, after the big fight with Titania,
Speaker 1: kind of bonding with this guy who seems, you know,
Speaker 1: pretty accepting and certainly maybe attracted to Jen, and they're
Speaker 1: they're sharing this plate of fries, and then we zoom
Speaker 1: out and it's clear that somebody is keeping track of Gen.
Speaker 1: We go to a futuristic lab where there is a
Speaker 1: screen where we see someone named Hulk King capitalized in
Speaker 1: a very interesting way, certainly in a way that would
Speaker 1: lead us to speculate about hulk cling hulk ling? Is
Speaker 1: that what that means? Saying, okay, where are we with
Speaker 1: with Jen? We should note that this is exactly how
Speaker 1: mister Blue communicated with mister Green in h in the
Speaker 1: Incredible Hulk movie starring Ed Norton. And then you know,
Speaker 1: we see the the bench needle that the wrecking crew
Speaker 1: attempted to stab Jen with, and then we see another
Speaker 1: needle being snapped onto a new syringe and it's early,
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna call we were right on this, the
Speaker 1: adamantium needle because the sound effect the sound effect listen,
Speaker 1: it might be vibradium, but the sound it was so distinct,
Speaker 1: and it led me to one in the comics, the
Speaker 1: only thing that can penetrate the Hulk skin is an
Speaker 1: adamantium needle. We've seen it, seen it numerous times in
Speaker 1: the comics. And two, the sound it makes is very
Speaker 1: much it's evocative. It's evocative of Wolverine's claw.
Speaker 3: Also, I would just say we were right. We can
Speaker 3: do a two part we were right.
Speaker 2: One.
Speaker 3: I also agree, I think it has to be adamantium needle.
Speaker 3: They're just throwing mutants around now. I don't see any issue.
Speaker 3: We've had multiple wolverine stick like Easter eggs at this
Speaker 3: point with stuff and magical but also as well, we
Speaker 3: were right. We knew they would make a new needle
Speaker 3: that would be made of some kind of super strong
Speaker 3: metal adamantium or vibranium. So I will be yeah, I
Speaker 3: would say we can take aw we were right. And
Speaker 3: also if it's an adamantium needle, obviously that's so exciting
Speaker 3: because most people who are listening, I think will probably
Speaker 3: know Adamantium is the metal that covers Wolverine's bones and
Speaker 3: his claws in the X Men comics, and in that
Speaker 3: plays a large part in the in the X Men movies.
Speaker 3: So again we're moving towards that mutant space.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's talk about two things here in that scene.
Speaker 1: One Hulk King. Who is he? Okay, who is he
Speaker 1: or her? Who are they?
Speaker 3: So? I think I think that you're very right that
Speaker 3: they want it. Again, if we're talking about evocative stuff,
Speaker 3: I think they want it to evoke hulk Ling. It
Speaker 3: looks the same. Also Hulk Link and hulk Ling is
Speaker 3: Scroll Royalty, you know, so he is technically a Hulk King.
Speaker 3: I also think so. The reason that we know is
Speaker 3: that another thing we need to talk about is the
Speaker 3: way that it pops up. It is very evocative of
Speaker 3: a website that we just saw, which was called the Intelligentsia,
Speaker 3: which was kind of this MRA four chan esque website
Speaker 3: where a lot of dudes would just told me how
Speaker 3: much they hate Sheaholk and they want to kill Shee Hulk.
Speaker 3: But that in itself is really important because in the comics,
Speaker 3: the Intelligentsia was this villain knowledge sharing group that ended
Speaker 3: up becoming a supervillain group, and they were the ones
Speaker 3: who created Red Hulk, which you find out in twenty
Speaker 3: ten's Hulk twenty three. They were the ones who convinced
Speaker 3: Thunderbolt Ross to take the Hulk serum and become Red Hulk.
Speaker 3: So there's also that aspect where it's like, we thought
Speaker 3: we're heading towards I think we're heading towards Red Hulk
Speaker 3: slash Red she Hulk for sure. Yeah, yeah, And so
Speaker 3: like is what I think is really interesting is we
Speaker 3: thought Tim Blake Nelson the leader, was gonna be the
Speaker 3: one kind of the Machiavelli and guy behind the curtain.
Speaker 3: He could be he could see himself because the Hulk King.
Speaker 3: But I will also say he is a really good scientist.
Speaker 3: He could actually just be running that lab. And whoever
Speaker 3: is actually behind this, who is the Hulk King?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: For all we know this is I'm gonna throw out
Speaker 3: a really out there one. Yeah, what if like in
Speaker 3: the comics, so what if Bruce has gone back to Saka,
Speaker 3: Jen cannot Jen cannot get in touch with him?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Tim foyl hatting this one, right? What if Scar
Speaker 3: Hulk's son is already on Earth and is the one
Speaker 3: who is doing all of this because he hates his dad,
Speaker 3: which is a very canon comic book thing. And he
Speaker 3: is actually the one who's trying to find out about
Speaker 3: how Hulk blood works. He's the one who's trying to
Speaker 3: find out who she Hulk is. There's all different things
Speaker 3: that could be coming into play here, and I kind
Speaker 3: of I'm very impressed by how they took what we
Speaker 3: thought was a pretty simple but with a lot of
Speaker 3: fun stuff, Like we had the Elliot Franklin theory, we
Speaker 3: had a lot of different fun stuff. But I love
Speaker 3: that now they've turned it on its head and now
Speaker 3: there's like ah other people because Intelligency has so many
Speaker 3: Hulk villains in it too, so as well as like
Speaker 3: modoc Red, Ghost, Doctor Doom, like all different kinds of people.
Speaker 3: So there's just so much here that they're playing with
Speaker 3: that the whole King thing just kind of blew my
Speaker 3: mind because I'm like, I need to know. And also,
Speaker 3: isn't just one of these crazy Intelligency website guys who
Speaker 3: just has a ton of money. I know one of
Speaker 3: the discs in our discord. A lot of people have
Speaker 3: been guessing that the guy who went on a date
Speaker 3: with who was like a real creep who then ended
Speaker 3: up at the office. Yeah, he might be the villain.
Speaker 3: And now we know that there's a whole king, super rich,
Speaker 3: wealthy like hate strong women, you know, so that would
Speaker 3: also be really interesting.
Speaker 1: Chris producer Chris uh is raising a theory in the chat.
Speaker 1: Could Josh cute guy at the wedding who eat the
Speaker 1: fries with in that moment in that you know, as
Speaker 1: the secret camera wherever that's hidden, like zooms out and
Speaker 1: we see that she's being observed, Josh is there with her.
Speaker 1: Could Josh cute guy at the wedding end up being
Speaker 1: a fake out name and he's actually the whole king.
Speaker 1: I like that as well.
Speaker 3: I think Chris is definitely onto something.
Speaker 1: Because they introduced that guy in a way. He can't
Speaker 1: be just like another nice thing exactly, and he knows.
Speaker 3: He goes in there with the exact specific attack of
Speaker 3: I don't just like sheehowk I like gen which publicly
Speaker 3: was just a huge thing in a lawsuit, And then
Speaker 3: it seems very unlikely to me that he would. He's
Speaker 3: got her in her gen form because he likes Jen. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and he so that means you can get her blood
Speaker 3: even without an adamantium needle. Potentially, but adamantium needle's a
Speaker 3: good choice just because you don't know how someone's human
Speaker 3: skin could take on its hulk skin form. But then
Speaker 3: he's sitting right in the right place in front of
Speaker 3: the camera so that she can be seen. I think
Speaker 3: Josh is sadly at least intelligentsia.
Speaker 1: Adjacent adjacent. Yeah, I'll say this, we I don't think
Speaker 1: it's the leader for the following reason. Just put a
Speaker 1: syringe in your own arm, right, Okay, so he's that
Speaker 1: you got the game blood? Is he being established? I'll
Speaker 1: just say that we have established that gens blood is
Speaker 1: super special and even in the context of gamma radiated blood,
Speaker 1: it allowed Bruce to heal his arm. It has different properties.
Speaker 1: That said, it feels like the leader would be focused elsewhere.
Speaker 3: Maybe the Leader wants Gen's blood to cure himself because
Speaker 3: he's like deformed and kind of messed up by it.
Speaker 3: But also, how would he know that Gen's blood is
Speaker 3: bad blood? I think I think with the intelligentsia, the
Speaker 3: whole king, I think that all leads to this idea
Speaker 3: of somebody creating a Red Hulk or a red Shea Holk,
Speaker 3: which we had long wondered about, and I will just say,
Speaker 3: would be a very cool way to reintroduce liv Tyler
Speaker 3: to the MCU, because Betty is Red she Holk in
Speaker 3: the comics originally, and I just think that would be
Speaker 3: so cool.
Speaker 1: Do you think I agree with the jilted date as
Speaker 1: being an intelligencier person? But do you think there's any
Speaker 1: you think Modoc or any of the super ape or
Speaker 1: any of the rest are involved in this.
Speaker 3: I think that they. I think they have long they
Speaker 3: have long talked about bringing Modoc to the MCU. I
Speaker 3: think he's going to be in the MCU. I don't
Speaker 3: think this is where, but I do think that knowing
Speaker 3: she Hulk, we could see some super weird characters like
Speaker 3: awesome Android and like other people who've been in the intelligentsia.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so Chris just mentioned that he Yeah, Modoc's
Speaker 3: confirmed in Quantumania. We've already seen some leaked mm HM
Speaker 3: visuals of what potentially he could look like. But like,
Speaker 3: I think that knowing Sheeholt, they're gonna go for the
Speaker 3: weird now. Now, look, Modoc is very weird I'm not
Speaker 3: saying that, but Modoch is unbelievably complex character to bring
Speaker 3: to life. Yes, and I think that in Quantumania you
Speaker 3: probably can dedicate a couple of years to somebody just
Speaker 3: building Modoc and working out how he would look. You know,
Speaker 3: if you haven't seen him, he's like basically a giant
Speaker 3: floating head.
Speaker 1: Producer Saul with a extremely tinfoil hat comes with I
Speaker 1: wonder if Josh's Amideas show.
Speaker 3: Like, oh my god, I wish that was the case.
Speaker 1: I don't think that that. I like where your head
Speaker 1: is at. But one, this feels a little bit low
Speaker 1: stakes for the the genius of Amidea's Chow. And two
Speaker 1: I think they probably cast youngerls.
Speaker 3: What if if it was Amadeus Chow. What if hypothetically
Speaker 3: me and Chris are right but wrong, Like, instead of
Speaker 3: just being a part of the intelligencia, he's actually there
Speaker 3: to protect Jen because of his super genius. You know,
Speaker 3: I would I agree with you, though I think if
Speaker 3: you're going to do Amadeus, you're going to probably make
Speaker 3: him like a super teen. But I do really like
Speaker 3: that idea, and I don't think it's that of the
Speaker 3: realm of possibility simply because we know that this is
Speaker 3: a place where they're basically introducing slash reintroducing a lot
Speaker 3: of the Hulk family.
Speaker 1: I agreed, And I also, you know, to Chris's point,
Speaker 1: the monarch is confirmed for Quantumnia, it does. It feels
Speaker 1: a little bit like, you know, not to not to
Speaker 1: ruin the magic by peaking too far behind the curtain.
Speaker 1: But I imagine that one and part of the reason
Speaker 1: they're digging so deep into the crates is because whoever
Speaker 1: the Marvel lore keeper is at mcu is, you know,
Speaker 1: was like, oh no, you can't use that person because
Speaker 1: we're using them for this. Can we use modoc No,
Speaker 1: Monoc's and Quantumanians we can't use them. Can we use
Speaker 1: you know, us Asian and I can't use you as Yeah, ZIGGI,
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 3: That's like, you know, he was there to he was
Speaker 3: pulling those deep cut places out, so you didn't have
Speaker 3: that crossover for sure.
Speaker 1: So I feel like, you know, for all the implications,
Speaker 1: and there are many, I would imagine that it's there's
Speaker 1: a world where Marvel is having similar conversations where they're like, okay,
Speaker 1: they use this weird character. I wonder what all the
Speaker 1: implications that we could then generate stories off of from there.
Speaker 3: I also think as well, the other thing that we
Speaker 3: know that the MCU loves to do. I mean, it's
Speaker 3: part of why we're here with our tim for hat
Speaker 3: theories and are we will writes and stuff. They love
Speaker 3: to seed stuff. So I'm sure that by introducing the intelligentsia,
Speaker 3: they knew people were going to make that connection to
Speaker 3: monoc And there is a world where we even hear
Speaker 3: someone fends, you know, the machine designed only for killing
Speaker 3: or something like. There's I feel like there's a way
Speaker 3: that they can they can still have or they have
Speaker 3: someone just say you know, of course, and they send
Speaker 3: an email and the emails to light modoc, like they
Speaker 3: can do that fun stuff where they see it in
Speaker 3: without necessarily having to show like the giant floating head creature,
Speaker 3: you know. So yeah, I just like, I this was
Speaker 3: such a fun episode, but like you said, it's the implications,
Speaker 3: like they're having fun, but they're also like vampires exist Wolverine,
Speaker 3: Like it's it's really fun stuff.
Speaker 1: Okay, Adamantium versus Vibranium here is my take. And obviously
Speaker 1: you know there's also the possibility there could be some
Speaker 1: other weird super you know, some titanium alloy that they're like, okay,
Speaker 1: maybe this will you know that it's not necessarily adamantium,
Speaker 1: although again clearly they want us to think that. Here's
Speaker 1: why I think here's my case for it not being vibranium.
Speaker 1: We stablished. While we have established that vibranium is a
Speaker 1: wonder metal that has a lot of really amazing properties,
Speaker 1: among them being extreme durability, the other thing that we've
Speaker 1: established with vibranium is that the number one thing about
Speaker 1: it that really makes it special is that it absorbs
Speaker 1: and releases kinetic energy. We see that with the Black
Speaker 1: Panther suit. It's got this property of it can absorb
Speaker 1: all the damage and all the hits that are being
Speaker 1: directed towards it, and then it can release it as
Speaker 1: like a focused energy plast So it's got that property
Speaker 1: to it that is a very distinctly different Like you
Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily need that for a needle. What you need
Speaker 1: for a needle that you want to pierce the hulk
Speaker 1: skin is just is it unbreakable? Will it bend? Is it?
Speaker 1: Is it indestructible? Basically, and that is the key difference
Speaker 1: between these two wonder metals is that both are really
Speaker 1: really really strong. Viranium is almost indestructible, but adamantium, unless
Speaker 1: you bring it to its melting point, is basically in
Speaker 1: destruct yea, like you can't bring it there.
Speaker 3: Is like there is like obviously times because it's comic books,
Speaker 3: where like I believe it was like Ultimate Hulk managed
Speaker 3: to break an adamantium needle or something. Yeah, but like
Speaker 3: in general, Adimantium's going through whatever they want it to
Speaker 3: go through. We've seen it with Wolverine, We've seen it.
Speaker 3: And also, look, they make these shows. These shows are
Speaker 3: made by people who love this stuff. They're made by
Speaker 3: people like zeb Wells and Zig who make the comics.
Speaker 3: They know if you create, if you end an episode
Speaker 3: with a needle that looks really big and shiny and
Speaker 3: goes into a syringe with a kind of like click snick,
Speaker 3: they know that people are going to say, oh, that's
Speaker 3: an adamantium needle. Now we also know that because of
Speaker 3: how this show has been and how funny they are
Speaker 3: and how much they kind of enjoy playing with expectations,
Speaker 3: it could literally next week they'll be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: this is a this is a very strong needle called
Speaker 3: like adamantium, and there's something that they it's like this
Speaker 3: step before adamantium on like the But you know that
Speaker 3: it's just the reason it's fun is because we get
Speaker 3: to guess. And also I will say, I think with
Speaker 3: everything else in this episode, I believe it being Adamantium
Speaker 3: is very very likely because, like I said, they just
Speaker 3: casually revealed that vampires just fully exist fully are real,
Speaker 3: and also this mutant vampires are running around. I think
Speaker 3: that Adamantium in that context could definitely be real and
Speaker 3: a thing.
Speaker 1: Well, let's welcome She Hulk head writer Jessica Gow to
Speaker 1: the show now and ask her some questions potentially including
Speaker 1: whether or not that's adamantium, and is mister Immortal a mutant?
Speaker 1: And does that mean Kurkoha is not a thing right now?
Speaker 1: Questions I'm sure she will answer.
Speaker 3: Definitely, Gonta give us all the answers.
Speaker 1: A whole new batch of progressive merch just dropped at
Speaker 1: the Cricket Store with teas, hats and bumper stickers that
Speaker 1: are all about demanding reproductive justice, canceling student debt, and
Speaker 1: making our democracy work. You can show where you stand
Speaker 1: even while you sit in traffic, hitch to the Cricket
Speaker 1: Store and pick out something to wear to the voting
Speaker 1: booth or just on your morning coffee run. You guys
Speaker 1: know how T shirts where you wear them anywhere. Check
Speaker 1: it out at cricket dot com slash store.
Speaker 3: This week in the Hive Mind, where we bring on
Speaker 3: experts to discuss their work and more, X ray Vision
Speaker 3: is thrilled to welcome she holkhead writer Jessica Gow.
Speaker 2: Hello, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3: Oh, thanks so much for coming on. So like one
Speaker 3: of the questions we always ask, because this is the
Speaker 3: bread and butter of what we do and what we
Speaker 3: care about, like what's your origin story of comics? Like
Speaker 3: how did you find comics? What do you care about?
Speaker 3: What was it about comics that made you fall in
Speaker 3: love with them? Or do you not care about comics
Speaker 3: at all and just ended up on the nam Shiyusha.
Speaker 5: I was a lifelong comic book reader. When I was
Speaker 5: a kid, I read mostly manga because I was born
Speaker 5: in China and I immigrated to America when I was young,
Speaker 5: and my relatives in China, you know, I was like
Speaker 5: a bookworm, and so they would always want to send
Speaker 5: me gifts, you know, because they missed me, or because
Speaker 5: somebody went to visit and you have to send.
Speaker 2: A gift, you know.
Speaker 5: And they would all because the one thing they knew
Speaker 5: about me.
Speaker 2: Was that I loved reading.
Speaker 5: They were they would constantly send me Chinese bootlegs of
Speaker 5: whatever was like the hot manga in at the time.
Speaker 5: And so I just had like stacks of bootleg comics
Speaker 5: that I that I read constantly, you know. And so
Speaker 5: it was a lot of like dragon Ball and like
Speaker 5: Grandma and U U Hockey Show, City Hunter Cati, you know,
Speaker 5: stuff like that, like whatever was hot in Japan and
Speaker 5: that the bootleggers felt was worth bootlegging.
Speaker 2: That's what I got.
Speaker 5: And then when I got more into when I was more,
Speaker 5: when I was a teenager, that's when I got into
Speaker 5: reading like more, you know, like American comics, and like
Speaker 5: my first job in high school was at the local
Speaker 5: com book store.
Speaker 1: Oh that's so yeah.
Speaker 5: But I was never, like, to be fair, honest, I
Speaker 5: was never huge on mainstream comics. Like I didn't read
Speaker 5: a lot of Marvel or DC. I mostly like the
Speaker 5: most mainstream I read was probably like Image and Vertigo comics.
Speaker 5: And then I and but I really got heavily into
Speaker 5: like the indie stuff, you know, like anything that like
Speaker 5: fanographics put out slave Liver graphics drawn and quarterly like
Speaker 5: that was like more my jam, you know.
Speaker 1: So how did you get attached to Sheehook? What was
Speaker 1: the process, Like, what was your take on the character
Speaker 1: that got you the gig?
Speaker 2: Well, they they knew me.
Speaker 5: I mean I've told the story a few times now.
Speaker 5: Where she helped was the fourth time I pitched at Marvel.
Speaker 5: So it's the fourth project I pitched there, which means that,
Speaker 5: you know, I was rejected three times before I got home.
Speaker 5: But she was always my favorite character from Marvel Comics,
Speaker 5: and so I like all three other times that I
Speaker 5: got rejected, I would bring up she Hulk and be like, guys,
Speaker 5: if you do she Hulky, gotta you gotta call your girl.
Speaker 5: And then I would threatened Arson if they didn't, you know,
Speaker 5: just so they knew I was serious. Yeah and yeah,
Speaker 5: And so when I went into pitch she Hulk, I mean,
Speaker 5: anytime I pitched TV, it always starts with character, you know,
Speaker 5: like you have to care about this main character to
Speaker 5: want to hang out with them a week after week.
Speaker 5: And for me, like you know, what I loved about
Speaker 5: she Hult from the comics was just how meta the
Speaker 5: burn run was. That was the run that made me
Speaker 5: fall in love with she Hulked and her break and
Speaker 5: the fourth Wall, Like how irreverent she was, how funny
Speaker 5: she was. You know, she didn't take like being in
Speaker 5: comics too seriously. Like there was just this levity to
Speaker 5: it that I really found really refreshing, you know, and
Speaker 5: so especially since you know, like I think the most
Speaker 5: mainstream stuff I read in when I was a teenager
Speaker 5: was probably Batman comics, and that's always very dark and serious,
Speaker 5: you know, so like something like she Hulk is just
Speaker 5: it's so like the polar opposite and tone wise, and
Speaker 5: I just it was just.
Speaker 2: Like a breath of fresh air.
Speaker 5: So how I approached the character was, you know, I
Speaker 5: just felt like I could really relate to her.
Speaker 2: You know, I thought about our similarities. You know, we're
Speaker 2: both women in our.
Speaker 5: Thirties with careers, like very focused on work, and but
Speaker 5: also you know, had friends, had like you know, family
Speaker 5: that we talked to, unlike a lot of comic characters.
Speaker 5: But then I thought, like, you know, if this thing
Speaker 5: happened to me one day, I there was an accident
Speaker 5: and I got superpowers and I became a Hulk, and
Speaker 5: there were all these expectations that now I would have
Speaker 5: to be a superhero.
Speaker 2: I'd be fucking furious.
Speaker 5: Because I mean, if you look at the shirt I'm wearing,
Speaker 5: it says I'm tired, and that's how I feel like
Speaker 5: every day, and so I would be like, I'm too
Speaker 5: tired to add one more thing to my plate. And
Speaker 5: also like I didn't ask for this, like no, thank you.
Speaker 2: You know, like if I was.
Speaker 5: A lawyer and I'd gone through like law school and
Speaker 5: I'd rapped up six figures in student loans, like who's.
Speaker 2: Gonna pay that?
Speaker 5: They're not gonna forgive the debt just because I'm a
Speaker 5: superhero nowt Like I'm still on the hook to pay
Speaker 5: that off, you know, Like oh, I'm supposed to just
Speaker 5: like stop everything and but still have to deal with
Speaker 5: all the ramifications like just because it happened, like I
Speaker 5: would be you know what I mean, Like there's oh, yeah,
Speaker 5: there's so much messiness in the minute sho of what happens.
Speaker 5: Like yeah, there's the big concept of like, oh, you
Speaker 5: have powers and now you have to be a superhero.
Speaker 5: But it's like, but let's look at all the detail,
Speaker 5: you know, like where are you gonna get.
Speaker 2: Your health care from? Who's who's providing that? Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: how do you get paid? Like how do you what's
Speaker 2: your retirement place? Girl? Like that's all stuff we have
Speaker 2: to think about. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I actually wrote an article off the falcon in the
Speaker 3: Winter Esolgia, the episode where Sam Wilson said that the
Speaker 3: Avengers didn't get paid and that Tony didn't pay them,
Speaker 3: and I was like, this has broken my breath on
Speaker 3: this side of my brain. It's like, how do they live,
Speaker 3: how do they have insurance? How do they do anything?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: And so something I'm interested about because that kind of
Speaker 3: aspect of Minutia and the slice of life aspect of
Speaker 3: the show is something that we love so much. Do
Speaker 3: you feel like your love of like indie comics stuff
Speaker 3: like you mentioned fantographics, I'm guessing like Love and Rockets,
Speaker 3: stuff like that. That's like one of my favorite comics.
Speaker 3: Do you feel like you brought those storytelling sensibilities to
Speaker 3: Shee Hulk as well by kind of looking more at
Speaker 3: like the holistic life of the character, like indie comics
Speaker 3: sometimes do, rather than just that big concept superhero stuff.
Speaker 5: Yeah, definitely, because you know, I didn't really approach this
Speaker 5: following a traditional superhero formula. You know, it was definitely
Speaker 5: more about like the tone was a lot more important,
Speaker 5: you know, and like it's not a plot heavy show.
Speaker 2: It's an episode.
Speaker 5: It's a very episodic show, and it's very much about
Speaker 5: the life of life, you know, and it really is.
Speaker 5: It's exactly like you said, it's this like kind of holistic,
Speaker 5: well rounded look of like what is the totality of
Speaker 5: this person's life.
Speaker 1: One thing that is really resonating with us as comic
Speaker 1: book nerds is just how this is the most comic
Speaker 1: book nerd show from Marvel. Yeah, it really is. Like
Speaker 1: the way it just present, you know, the way mister
Speaker 1: Immortals shows up and he's just been around, he's just
Speaker 1: been around doing his mister Immortal thing in the world,
Speaker 1: and it's taken as part of the texture of this space,
Speaker 1: and that is that's part of the excitement of reading
Speaker 1: comics when I was a kid, to me is just
Speaker 1: having a window open into this entire, vibrant world where
Speaker 1: people are running around doing things, going to the gym,
Speaker 1: going shopping, using their powers for good and ill. How
Speaker 1: much of that was really was what you were going for,
Speaker 1: where you're going to like, we're gonna pull from all
Speaker 1: these different things, and we're not even going to be like,
Speaker 1: how did mister Mortal get his powers? Forget about it,
Speaker 1: We're just going to present it's running around.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, you know, it just it felt like
Speaker 5: we're over a decade into the MCU, like and you know,
Speaker 5: every other movie introduces a new character, a new superhero,
Speaker 5: somebody with powers, you know, and like they're they're in
Speaker 5: the double digits now, you know, so people in their
Speaker 5: world have been living with this for years and years
Speaker 5: and years, so it's no longer like a shock you know,
Speaker 5: to the system of like that people with superpowers exist.
Speaker 5: These people exist, you know, and not every single person
Speaker 5: is going to make the news and become an Avenger.
Speaker 5: There are you know, people like mister Immortal who are like, oh,
Speaker 5: I'm only going to use this for my personal life, and.
Speaker 2: There's no contribution to society, you know, like there's.
Speaker 5: Just there's just people around who have these powers. And
Speaker 5: you know, we really wanted to focus on the lower
Speaker 5: level stuff, not the global save the universe kind of thing.
Speaker 5: We wanted to focus on like the everyday street level
Speaker 5: people who aren't making the news and are just kind
Speaker 5: of existing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and how fun was it as a process to
Speaker 3: kind of get to go through and pick you know,
Speaker 3: we get mister Remore here, we get a reference to
Speaker 3: Baroness Blood. So I'm like, now, definitely the vampires exist
Speaker 3: in the MCU. That is my head canon. But like,
Speaker 3: how fun was it in the room? So you know,
Speaker 3: we talked to Zig and he was talking about, you know,
Speaker 3: pulling out names like the Wrecking Crew and stuff. So
Speaker 3: how far is it to kind of get to dig
Speaker 3: in and find those characters who fit this low ground
Speaker 3: level superhero world that you were building.
Speaker 2: It's it's really fun.
Speaker 5: And so our writer's room, the makeup of the writer's
Speaker 5: room was fifty percent like Marvel super Nerds and like
Speaker 5: Zig and like zeb Wells and you know, Jackie Gales
Speaker 5: and like and then the other half were just comedy
Speaker 5: writers who were like, yeah, I have never touched the
Speaker 5: comic book and I don't really need to unless I'm
Speaker 5: being paid to do it, you know. But it's a
Speaker 5: but I like, we needed that balance, you know, because
Speaker 5: we can't be completely inside baseball when it comes to comics,
Speaker 5: like because this is still a sitcom, you know, first
Speaker 5: and foremost, So it was nice to have that mix
Speaker 5: of people to kind of balance out like what is
Speaker 5: going to be funny, you know, but what's also going
Speaker 5: to be true to the comics. And so it was
Speaker 5: really nice to have half the room be able to
Speaker 5: like start pulling from the comics, like you know, like
Speaker 5: like Zig and Zeb and everybody would they already had
Speaker 5: like their their kind of mental list of characters they've
Speaker 5: always wanted to And our philosophy was always like the
Speaker 5: lower level, like the C level, D level, like give
Speaker 5: us the low rent guys, because then you have the most.
Speaker 2: Freedom, you know for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Well also like a, you have the most like highest
Speaker 5: probability that it would be available that whens like you know,
Speaker 5: creating like that Marvel isn't already doing some sort of
Speaker 5: like trilogy about them. But two also like you have
Speaker 5: more freedom because they're not this like Precious Revere like
Speaker 5: have like a crazy fandom character. They're characters that people
Speaker 5: are like, oh, I recognize them, that's funny that they're
Speaker 5: using them, you know, or characters where they're like I
Speaker 5: don't even know where they pulled that from. And then
Speaker 5: you can really like kind of play around with them
Speaker 5: and come up with like funny stuff for them. So,
Speaker 5: you know, we pull like characters that we just thought
Speaker 5: would be funny, and then the whole room would kind
Speaker 5: of go to work on coming up with, like what's
Speaker 5: a funny reason they would be in legal trouble? Like
Speaker 5: what is specific to this character that would require a lawyer?
Speaker 5: And and that's where we went from there. And that's
Speaker 5: really really fun to pitch, you know, because at the
Speaker 5: end of the day, you're just they're characters. Whether or
Speaker 5: not they're comp of characters or sick on characters, they're
Speaker 5: just characters that you're coming up with very like character
Speaker 5: specific stories for.
Speaker 1: This seems very obvious to me, but I was wondering
Speaker 1: if you might spell it out for our audience. It
Speaker 1: seems what is it that makes comedy writers like yourself,
Speaker 1: Jeff love no zeb So the right person to develop
Speaker 1: and adapt these stories for TV for film?
Speaker 2: I think it's that well, I think it is.
Speaker 5: What I loved about Marvel movies was that they're all
Speaker 5: very like even the serious ones, there is the sense
Speaker 5: of joy, you know, there is the sense of like
Speaker 5: of this love for this.
Speaker 2: Medium, and like, you.
Speaker 5: Know, if you could be very reductive and say like, oh,
Speaker 5: it's like for kids or whatever, but but I think
Speaker 5: being able to see.
Speaker 2: The way that like comics have these like strong themes
Speaker 2: and can tell these like very.
Speaker 5: Like metaphor lateen story, you know, and kind of be
Speaker 5: a reflection of of ourt of the times and.
Speaker 2: Of people.
Speaker 5: Being able to like take that seriously but also balance
Speaker 5: that with like, okay, but it's still you know, a
Speaker 5: person with superpowers or some guy who decided to dress
Speaker 5: up like a.
Speaker 2: Frog, you know, Like I to kind of balance that
Speaker 2: and like treat it like.
Speaker 5: With the right level of seriousness. Like these characters are
Speaker 5: taking their lives seriously, you know, so we respect that,
Speaker 5: but we also understand that it's inherently a little silly
Speaker 5: and lighthearted, you know. And also the stakes on our
Speaker 5: show are very low. It's not it's not like half
Speaker 5: of humanity is going to die. It's like, well, is
Speaker 5: this guy gonna have to pay like pay out a
Speaker 5: law a settlement?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: H yeah, in that way. Actually, it kind of seems
Speaker 3: wild that there hasn't been like a superhero sitcom like
Speaker 3: this seems like the perfect balance. So could you talk
Speaker 3: a little bit about that choice and going obviously it
Speaker 3: makes so much sense for shee holp. But why was that?
Speaker 3: How did you know that was the right pitch?
Speaker 5: Well, I come from writing for TV comedy, so so
Speaker 5: I was always going to do comedy. I just I
Speaker 5: don't write dramas, you know, so it's always gonna be
Speaker 5: a comedy. But I think like she Hulk, of all characters,
Speaker 5: is like so, I mean, the most iconic she Hulk
Speaker 5: runs are so like fun and light, you know, and funny.
Speaker 2: So I think like it's that's just what's true to
Speaker 2: the character.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, here we go. We're gonna we're gonna hit
Speaker 1: you now with the questions that we're pretty sure you
Speaker 1: can't answer, but we're gonna try.
Speaker 2: Let's see how good my perker face.
Speaker 1: Is adamantium needle at the end.
Speaker 5: Yes, now I'm saying, yes, it is.
Speaker 1: That an adamantium needle. Uh No, okay, wow, oh interesting. Uh.
Speaker 2: We're not talking about adamantium on the show at all.
Speaker 3: There's no talking about it.
Speaker 1: But you know, here's it. It's a guess we here
Speaker 1: is why we guess that because of the Hulk's history.
Speaker 1: Uh with Adamanteta, you know, it's always the only solution
Speaker 1: to be like, how do we turn his blood to
Speaker 1: Hulk back at or get his blood or turn him
Speaker 1: back into Banner. We got to hit him. What's the
Speaker 1: only thing that could pierce the skin is an adam
Speaker 1: antium needle and it made it made a very satisfying
Speaker 1: snack dish sound, which is why we thought that.
Speaker 3: Well, that's good. I mean, it's rare to get a
Speaker 3: conclusive answer, so I'm very excited about that. I'm okay,
Speaker 3: So Baroness Blood aka mister Immortal's wife potentially potentially, I mean,
Speaker 3: so Baroness Cromwell is his ex wife? Is that? Does
Speaker 3: that mean? Was he married to a vampire? I feel
Speaker 3: like it would make sense because he's immortal. But was
Speaker 3: that or was that just like a fun name poll.
Speaker 2: That was just a fun name talk.
Speaker 5: We don't know which we don't know who this person
Speaker 5: is that he was married to.
Speaker 1: Okay, Obviously you've had a lot of fun over this
Speaker 1: season with like names that are one letter off from
Speaker 1: names that we recognize.
Speaker 3: Donnie Blaze.
Speaker 1: Donny Blaze, for instance, is a fantastic icon. And then
Speaker 1: at the end of this episode, you know, when we
Speaker 1: see that that secret lab where they're working to collect
Speaker 1: gens blood, we see it a chat on a screen,
Speaker 1: a computer message from someone named Hulk King, which seems
Speaker 1: like very specifically one letter off from Hulk Hulkling. Is
Speaker 1: that another Donny Blaze, Johnny Blaze Hulk King hulk Ling?
Speaker 1: Is that another one of those Donny Blaze situations?
Speaker 5: What I will say is you have to think about
Speaker 5: the world of the show as this is a world
Speaker 5: where people are aware of all these kind of superheroes.
Speaker 2: Beings, villains, aliens.
Speaker 5: Everyone's aware that these types of people exist, you know,
Speaker 5: so you have to think, like there are people in
Speaker 5: this world who are like our world fans, like you know,
Speaker 5: people who are into like fan fiction, people who are
Speaker 5: modeling themselves after these people. You know, people who know
Speaker 5: like the name Hulk and are you know, coming up
Speaker 5: with like coming up with just a screen name that
Speaker 5: is a reflection of what.
Speaker 2: They're interested in and who they're interested in.
Speaker 3: Okay, this is less of a this is less of
Speaker 3: a spoiler question, but links to the hul King women.
Speaker 3: Could you talk a little bit about introducing the intelligence
Speaker 3: here is this kind of like MRA website and how
Speaker 3: that plays into how well you guys kind of preemptively
Speaker 3: joke about what you knew the response to the show
Speaker 3: would be.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think it just we I mean,
Speaker 5: we had our writers room in twenty We started our
Speaker 5: writers room in twenty nineteen. That's how long ago we,
Speaker 5: you know, we started writing this show. So I mean
Speaker 5: it truly preempts a lot of the stuff because we knew.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it just goes to.
Speaker 5: Show how completely unoriginal and tired and boring.
Speaker 2: Actually, guys are you know that three years.
Speaker 5: Ago we could predict like exactly what they weren't gonna say,
Speaker 5: like fucking get a new song man. And it's just
Speaker 5: I mean, it's it's funny, but it's also sady that
Speaker 5: like it's so accurate.
Speaker 2: And also that it is so common and so.
Speaker 5: Predictable at that we could this accurately like just pull
Speaker 5: it out, you know, because it's not it's not really
Speaker 5: it is specific to the show, but it also isn't
Speaker 5: like that type of like like hate and like stupidity
Speaker 5: is not specific to this show. Only you know, it's
Speaker 5: so prevalent that that's why we were able to just
Speaker 5: know exactly, you know. So it was very funny when
Speaker 5: the show premiered seeing all the responses where I was like,
Speaker 5: you just wait till the third episode comes back, because
Speaker 5: because the little troll inside of me was also giggling.
Speaker 1: And baby, well, Jessica, this has been a fantastic conversation.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2: This is great.
Speaker 3: That was such a joy. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Folks were stepping out of the air lock onto the
Speaker 1: streets of Ferrick's beautiful company town Ferrix for the first
Speaker 1: three episodes of and Or, written by Tony Gilroy, directed
Speaker 1: by Toby Haynes. Again, we just want to touch on
Speaker 1: this these episodes because we want to give everybody time
Speaker 1: to process them and to really digest them, and then
Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about it regularly as the series progresses.
Speaker 1: But first off, Rosie, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 3: So, I thought it is very beautiful. I'm happy to
Speaker 3: I love to see die go back. You know, we're
Speaker 3: big fans of Rogue One on this show.
Speaker 1: Huge fans, such huge fans of Rogue One.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I love the landscape. I love that it's
Speaker 3: not a nostalgia fueled show. I think like we've all
Speaker 3: talked about this. People in the discord have been talking
Speaker 3: about this. This is a show that is almost has
Speaker 3: a similarity to Lord of the Rings in that the
Speaker 3: first episode maybe a little bit homework heavy, a little
Speaker 3: bit introductory heavy, but you get those three episodes so
Speaker 3: by the end you've really kind of dived in. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I thought it was like a good show. I'm a
Speaker 3: big fan of Tony Gilroy, who they bring in to
Speaker 3: save everything, so I'm really happy to see him getting
Speaker 3: to have this space to do this. I do have
Speaker 3: some moments that like bumped me though, so that's how
Speaker 3: I'm excited to talk to you about it.
Speaker 1: So I too, I think it looks absolutely like jaw
Speaker 1: dropping stunning. Actually, like the volume is doing incredible or
Speaker 1: clearly I think they shot on location somewhere. It looks amazing.
Speaker 1: I you know, Rogue One is probably my favorite Star
Speaker 1: Wars movie, and I think the vibe of Rogue One,
Speaker 1: which is which kind of recontextualized the part of the
Speaker 1: impact of the original Star Wars as a as a
Speaker 1: flipped allegory to the Vietnam War, you know, in which
Speaker 1: you know, scrappy rebels take on this superpower with weapons
Speaker 1: of mass destruction and actually defeat it. Rogue One took
Speaker 1: that and brought it into the twenty first century with
Speaker 1: an allegory that is senttually says that acknowledged the power
Speaker 1: of the kind of like freedom fighter narrative. Yeah you
Speaker 1: had you had these You had these rebels fighting to
Speaker 1: defend a holy city with rare natural resources that were
Speaker 1: being exploited by a superpower. You know, it's like this, Uh,
Speaker 1: it's the grievances of the Middle East with regards to
Speaker 1: the United States as empire, but uh mixed up and
Speaker 1: put back uh, you know, and and digested back and
Speaker 1: given back to us as a Star Wars story. I
Speaker 1: think that was part of like what really gave it
Speaker 1: its power. And I think and Or is similarly continuing
Speaker 1: to do that same thing, which is taking really really
Speaker 1: provocative ideas and saying, Okay, at what level does violent
Speaker 1: resistance to corporate power become morally acceptable? At what point
Speaker 1: does violent resistance to the security state become, while clearly illegal,
Speaker 1: morally acceptable. At what point does the destruction of the
Speaker 1: environment warrant a morally potentially violent response.
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 1: And those ideas are really really, really just very very
Speaker 1: interesting and kind of like radical to explore in the
Speaker 1: contexts right now. And I think that part of it
Speaker 1: has me absolutely hooked. Here is where is the thing
Speaker 1: that bumps me as well? I do bump on certain things.
Speaker 1: One and this is all with the caveat that we
Speaker 1: need more contacts that I need to see where this
Speaker 1: is going.
Speaker 3: You know, and is twelve episodes long, so we're literally
Speaker 3: a core of the way through the show. There is
Speaker 3: a lot that we can still discover, but we both
Speaker 3: definitely got caught on a couple of the same things.
Speaker 1: The kind of like reframing of and then a story
Speaker 1: about indigenous people fighting against a technological colonial foe made
Speaker 1: me feel a little bit weird that being Diego's backstory,
Speaker 1: just not weird in that the idea of doing it,
Speaker 1: but the way they presented it makes me maybe like
Speaker 1: tad uneasy if I don't know where it's going at
Speaker 1: this point, I'm like, it's definitely something. I'm like, hmm,
Speaker 1: I wonder where this is going, because this is either
Speaker 1: like again another super super radical theme in detail in
Speaker 1: the context of a Star Wars show, or maybe a
Speaker 1: little bit of a miss.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally agree. I feel like I love to
Speaker 3: see We're living in an age right now where there's
Speaker 3: finally we're getting a lot of really brilliant like indigenous
Speaker 3: storytelling in a mainstream, accessible space. The storytelling has always
Speaker 3: been there, but now it's getting a platform. Whether it's
Speaker 3: like you know, Reservation Dogs, Blood Quantum like one of
Speaker 3: my favorite movies from the last few years, there's a
Speaker 3: lot of great stuff being made saying that, I too wonder.
Speaker 3: I love the notion of an indigenous exploring an indigenous
Speaker 3: culture in Star Wars. That's incredible. It fits with me too.
Speaker 3: I personally, my first feeling about it was like this
Speaker 3: could have been the prequel to Just See, so we
Speaker 3: could have spent time there and got to know them,
Speaker 3: and it wasn't so much of just kind of flashback
Speaker 3: to trauma, which is a lot of what we're getting
Speaker 3: right now. So I'm I'm interested in that. You know
Speaker 3: what I feel like in a post Wakandan world, Let's
Speaker 3: say I think at fantasy and sci fi and ideas
Speaker 3: of indigenous populations in sci fi and fantasy, I feel
Speaker 3: like I want to see where they're going with this
Speaker 3: idea of like nature versus technology, because I feel like
Speaker 3: in the Star Wars world, that indigenous culture could have
Speaker 3: been like a a very highly it could have been
Speaker 3: represented differently in a way that embraces both nature and
Speaker 3: sci fi. That would have felt maybe a little bit
Speaker 3: less simplistic.
Speaker 1: Really, the main thing for me is the decision to
Speaker 1: not have us understand what they are saying.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's the biggest.
Speaker 1: It felt like an unnecessary othering to you to like,
Speaker 1: you know, for lack of a better, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: more subtle phrase of a people that doesn't really occur
Speaker 1: in Star Wars usually. Usually it's like, especially if this
Speaker 1: is like the main character, you want us to empathize
Speaker 1: and understand what a particular ethnicity or a people, or
Speaker 1: a race, or an alien group or or androids are saying.
Speaker 1: And you want to And I guess you could say, well,
Speaker 1: they don't subtitle the droids, but people translate what they're
Speaker 1: saying by telling me they translate it right back.
Speaker 3: I will also say it's very different than say, I remember,
Speaker 3: you know, when West Side Story came out, the Steven
Speaker 3: Spielberg one, there's a lot of unsubtitled Spanish in that,
Speaker 3: and and I thought that that's actually really interesting and
Speaker 3: cool because you're basically allowing Spanish speakers to experience part
Speaker 3: of the film that non Spanish speakers can't, and that
Speaker 3: is an interesting subversion of how English speaking is usually
Speaker 3: non subtitled. But this is a I just double checked
Speaker 3: because I wanted to be sure. But this is a
Speaker 3: made up language. It's Canari, So I don't in that
Speaker 3: way understand why that does.
Speaker 1: I want to see where it's going. And then the
Speaker 1: other thing, because again I think the idea, again, as
Speaker 1: you said, presenting an indigenous people through the lens of
Speaker 1: Star Wars and exploring their culture, I think is there's
Speaker 1: nothing inherently weird or wrong about that. In fact, that's
Speaker 1: fascinating and an idea I'd love to dive into. I
Speaker 1: also think it's really fascinating and radical to explore the
Speaker 1: idea of what an indigenous people could do to defend
Speaker 1: themselves that would be morally right considering the encroachment on
Speaker 1: their spaces, which is clearly an idea that this show
Speaker 1: is exploring. When when young and Or comes to the
Speaker 1: edge of that great mining pit and sees what's being
Speaker 1: done to his planet, there's an anger and a defiance
Speaker 1: that flashes in his eyes and it's the same anger
Speaker 1: and defiance that flashes in his eyes as an older
Speaker 1: man throughout the episodes that we see. And I think
Speaker 1: it draws a through line there of this idea of
Speaker 1: how much And he says, you know, no one would
Speaker 1: expect a person like me to be the one who
Speaker 1: gets paraphrasing now the thing he says in the trailer
Speaker 1: in other places, But I think that there's that through
Speaker 1: line there of how much does the does people have
Speaker 1: to put up with before it's okay for them to
Speaker 1: fight back? And I think that's clearly an idea that
Speaker 1: this show is presenting. And it's a really interesting idea
Speaker 1: that said.
Speaker 3: I just want to jump on that just quick because
Speaker 3: I know the next thing I totally agree with you.
Speaker 3: I totally agree with you. I just the other thing
Speaker 3: that kind of gets to me a little bit about it, yeah,
Speaker 3: is like I love that because I love radical ideas
Speaker 3: of struggle. The sad thing is in this case is like,
Speaker 3: wouldn't it have been? I know it doesn't work because
Speaker 3: we have to have and Cassie and have some kind
Speaker 3: of loss, but like, didn't we imagine a world where
Speaker 3: and indigenous people fought back in like one because it's
Speaker 3: a utopian Star Wars style space where you're imagining it. Also,
Speaker 3: like the other thing that I find interesting in the context,
Speaker 3: and like we said, I'm very interested to see where
Speaker 3: it goes because this could all be very intentional and
Speaker 3: be kind of expanded on or explored or excavated as
Speaker 3: we go through. But also, like you know, who never
Speaker 3: worried at any point about where the killing people was
Speaker 3: right in Star Wars, Like every white person who's ever
Speaker 3: in Star Wars who just blows stuff up and kills
Speaker 3: people and is seen as a hero. So I just
Speaker 3: I wonder I want to see that moral I want
Speaker 3: to know why the moral weight is so heavy on
Speaker 3: Cassian because the things that he is fighting against are
Speaker 3: are arguably so much more obviously deserving of rebellion or revolution.
Speaker 3: But again, that could definitely be something that we see
Speaker 3: expanded on as the show goes forward. There are a
Speaker 3: lot of points here where if these moments that we're
Speaker 3: talking about and are about to talk about another one
Speaker 3: are intentional and get explored and extrapolated on, and that
Speaker 3: could be a really really radical space in the Star
Speaker 3: Wars universe, or like you know, you were saying, if
Speaker 3: not then it could be there's a chance that could
Speaker 3: end up being like a bit of a missed opportunity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I think the thing that bumped me
Speaker 1: really the hardest is at the end of the and again,
Speaker 1: this could be really interesting and I'm holding out. I
Speaker 1: can't wait to see more, to see how this, you know,
Speaker 1: reframes the context. Potentially Marva, who you know, has followed
Speaker 1: this ship that crashed on Knari, is scavenging whatever kind
Speaker 1: of tech and different stuff that they have, and they
Speaker 1: want to get out before the republic answers. And they
Speaker 1: come across this young indigenous person who is Cassie and
Speaker 1: or young Cassian and or doesn't have that name yet,
Speaker 1: of course, and they're concerned that, you know, the Republic's
Speaker 1: going to show up and everybody's going to be potentially
Speaker 1: facing you know, real danger that could end up with
Speaker 1: the extinction of this tribe. I guess is with their concern,
Speaker 1: and so Marva kidnaps, you know, like let's just say
Speaker 1: what it is, kidnaps Cassian and takes him away on
Speaker 1: her spaceship. And so my question is this is are
Speaker 1: we framing that as this like unambiguously good rescue or
Speaker 1: is there necessary, in my mind necessary ambiguity to this action,
Speaker 1: Because while I don't doubt that Marva thinks I'm saving
Speaker 1: this young man's life, what is functionally happening is you
Speaker 1: are kidnapping him, making them away from his tribe, from
Speaker 1: his people, from his culture, from his entire world because
Speaker 1: you're concerned that he's in danger and that may or
Speaker 1: may not be true. But also like, that's not your role.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the way that you just framed that, that's
Speaker 3: not your responsibility, I think it's very clear fingers crossed.
Speaker 3: That seems to be a even just in the way
Speaker 3: you frame it, the way you speak, right, it seems
Speaker 3: like the right route to go is to use that
Speaker 3: as an analogous conversation about the times that that has
Speaker 3: happened in real life, but kidnapping of Indigenous children, of
Speaker 3: children from the global community, the global majority, and seeing
Speaker 3: and having that as like we're doing something good and
Speaker 3: then we know that that is obviously historically something that
Speaker 3: has become very horrific and just a way of exploiting
Speaker 3: children and harming children. So it feels to me like
Speaker 3: I don't think Star Wars is going to be like, oh,
Speaker 3: Marv is you know, an evil person. But I do
Speaker 3: think that could definitely be that should be adept and
Speaker 3: a conversation between Marva and between Cassian about the realities
Speaker 3: of what she did and how that shifted the the
Speaker 3: scope of his life and the way that his life
Speaker 3: turned out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's definitely you know, again, he may very
Speaker 1: well be in danger. You know, we're seeing aside through
Speaker 1: their eyes, through Marv's eyes, of the Republic that is,
Speaker 1: you know, less good than we're probably used to, and
Speaker 1: certainly more exploitive of cultures and planets than aren't technologically
Speaker 1: advanced or part of the Republic large. But again, she
Speaker 1: just like snatches them up without any kind of just
Speaker 1: this would this be okay, who are your people? Do
Speaker 1: you have family here? Who is your family here? And
Speaker 1: kidnaps them from what is essentially a utopian planet. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is another tripe. This is an age old trope,
Speaker 1: right of the of the the people who are less
Speaker 1: technologically advanced live in this more egalitarian, just perfect society.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like the peaceful And I that's another thing where
Speaker 3: I wonder if there was a technojungle twist or some
Speaker 3: kind of exploration that could have maybe potentially or might
Speaker 3: still happen. We've only seen certain parts. It's been in flashbacks,
Speaker 3: so we might learn that there is more to it.
Speaker 3: But like you said, that segment to me definitely had
Speaker 3: the feeling of that age old trope. It didn't necessarily
Speaker 3: feel like it was adding anything to because let's be real,
Speaker 3: I saw, like a lot of people have said this,
Speaker 3: but like, how many indigenous cultures have we seen destroyed
Speaker 3: in Star Wars? So many?
Speaker 1: Is that many? It's not the first one.
Speaker 3: It's not the first one, And it's like so like,
Speaker 3: yes that my ewoks, Like, is is that necessarily like
Speaker 3: a new story that needs to be told in the
Speaker 3: Stars universe? Hopefully as Cassian because this is a very
Speaker 3: slow burned show as well, So hopefully as it moves forward,
Speaker 3: we're going to get to see that that conversation change.
Speaker 3: But I would like to know about not subtitling the Canari.
Speaker 3: The more I think about it, the more I'm like,
Speaker 3: is is there is that going to change? Is that?
Speaker 3: I think on the on our version there was no captions,
Speaker 3: but I think on the final version it says speaking Canari.
Speaker 1: Heure's the other thing that I think makes it an
Speaker 1: interesting choice. To me, these are flashbacks. How are we
Speaker 1: getting here right? We're getting the presentation is these are
Speaker 1: Cassian's reminiscences, and and by choice, they are not allowing
Speaker 1: us that perspective that he has where he understands what
Speaker 1: these people are saying. They're not letting us in there.
Speaker 1: So even you know, from that perspective of a storytelling
Speaker 1: choice of a flashback, from the perspective of a character,
Speaker 1: it's it's a little puzzling to me. That's I think
Speaker 1: really a great people might listen to this conversation and
Speaker 1: be like they didn't like it. I actually love that
Speaker 1: like and here, and the fact that we are able
Speaker 1: to have these really like these big conversations about big
Speaker 1: ideas through the context of Star Wars is at a
Speaker 1: point one why I think this is certainly the most
Speaker 1: interesting to discuss right now in terms of like ideas
Speaker 1: and themes and ideas about morality and ideas about like
Speaker 1: you know, about struggle period. Having those conversations through this
Speaker 1: show it is really fascinating because again, this is a
Speaker 1: show that is straight up like okay if it it
Speaker 1: presents this idea to you and says that this is
Speaker 1: acceptable if the powers of policing fuse with corporate interest
Speaker 1: sounds familiar. It is it is okay to resist that violently.
Speaker 1: That's a kind of radical idea to put forward. And
Speaker 1: it's putting forward and putting it forward in the context
Speaker 1: of a Star Wars show, and I think that's a
Speaker 1: that's like pretty amazing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And also as well, I think that something that
Speaker 3: you bring up that's really great. There is how this
Speaker 3: carries on the tradition of Star Wars as like a
Speaker 3: radical analogy install Wars, like, look, we know what the
Speaker 3: empire is based on. In Star Wars, it's based on Nazis.
Speaker 3: It's a response to fascistic dictatorships are not afraid to
Speaker 3: kill and exploit. And the story there was you need
Speaker 3: to stand up against those. Those must be stopped and
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter if there's only one of you who
Speaker 3: is standing up. You can make a difference because you
Speaker 3: will find other people. So now you know that movie
Speaker 3: came out in the late seventies, the original Star Wars,
Speaker 3: Like now in twenty twenty two, to have a show
Speaker 3: that's like, by the way, if the police is this
Speaker 3: the Nazis, Yeah, and also saying like we're going to
Speaker 3: make it more specific. If the police and evil corporations
Speaker 3: are destroying your life and your livelihood and your towns,
Speaker 3: it's actually okay to not be okay with that and
Speaker 3: to want to resist it. That is a very cool
Speaker 3: reconsideration and updating and making the message far more specific
Speaker 3: than just like the real bad guy.
Speaker 1: And I love. I mean there's a real class struggle
Speaker 1: aspect to this too, like the fact that we don't
Speaker 1: have royalty royalty lords, you know, sith lords like running
Speaker 1: around making the choices. This is the people who are
Speaker 1: closer to the earth, who are working the way you know,
Speaker 1: Luthen and Cassie and have that conversation, you know, when
Speaker 1: they're meaning for the first time potentially and I have
Speaker 1: the handoff of the device of the of the navigation
Speaker 1: system and they kind of in a roundabout way start
Speaker 1: talking about the empire, and Lutheran's like, yeah, they're they're arrogant,
Speaker 1: aren't they, Like they don't understand how mad we are
Speaker 1: at them. Yeah, they they just they're fat and happy
Speaker 1: and they and they're just using their power to push
Speaker 1: everyone around, Like they don't understand like what they're doing,
Speaker 1: they don't understand the anger they're engendering. That was a
Speaker 1: that felt like, I really, that's an amazing thing to
Speaker 1: watch happen, To watch this like rebellion start to coalesce,
Speaker 1: not at the highest levels but the grassroots. Yeah, anger
Speaker 1: at the empire that actually the leadership then harnessed in
Speaker 1: order to fight their war.
Speaker 3: It's what makes Rogue one so special is you literally
Speaker 3: watch a group of marginalized people, predominantly people of color
Speaker 3: die in order to spark the rebellion in a very
Speaker 3: literal sense where they need. Without them, you would never
Speaker 3: have the blueprints that allowed the rest of the Star
Speaker 3: Wars franchise to happen. So everybody dies, all these people
Speaker 3: of color die, these people from all over the planet,
Speaker 3: from all different places, all over the galaxy, and then
Speaker 3: at the end, Princess Leia of Space Royal has the blueprints.
Speaker 3: You know. That's what's so radical about roguan is like
Speaker 3: who dies so that the people in charge can fight
Speaker 3: the war and win the war?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 3: And that's why I think is very interesting with Cassian
Speaker 3: is like we're coming at it from this viewpoint of
Speaker 3: like we want this to be the best version of
Speaker 3: this story that makes the most of the space that
Speaker 3: it's created because Rogue one really was this really radical space,
Speaker 3: and it's kind of it's very interesting to see that
Speaker 3: explored here, especially the notion of a of a corporate town,
Speaker 3: you know, something a business town, which is something that
Speaker 3: you know, we see in R Again, it's very relevant
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1: There's also I mean, they gave Cassian a real kind
Speaker 1: of like con Solo when he shoots those two PM employees,
Speaker 1: there's a look that flashes across his face and it's
Speaker 1: definitely not regret that he just killed two people. It's fuck,
Speaker 1: now I gotta deal with this, Yeah, you know, and.
Speaker 2: That is a.
Speaker 1: I love that they gave him that kind of characteristic.
Speaker 1: That's the kind of character we're dealing with. Yeah, Han
Speaker 1: Solo never Han Solo pulled the trigger on Grito. Oh
Speaker 1: yeah no never first, never thought about it again.
Speaker 3: Also, yeah, he just did that because he owed him
Speaker 3: some money too, Like it wasn't even a matter of survival. Yes,
Speaker 3: So okay, So something I found really interesting as well,
Speaker 3: Like in that context, Like the one thing that really
Speaker 3: hooked me was they do that great thing, as so
Speaker 3: many storytellers do, where there's a moment that everything hinges
Speaker 3: on and in this it is the PM, you know,
Speaker 3: the kind of head of PM. There's a young guy,
Speaker 3: Cyril Khan. Again, I'll be interested to see where they
Speaker 3: go with that. I feel like he was queer coded
Speaker 3: and he is a villain, so you know, we'll see
Speaker 3: where that leads. But what I found was really interesting
Speaker 3: is his boss, who is obviously corrupt and is in
Speaker 3: this way, he was just like, just let it go, man.
Speaker 3: They weren't meant to be there. They got in the
Speaker 3: wrong fight with the wrong person, and I was like,
Speaker 3: wow that. I just thought that was such an interesting
Speaker 3: moment where there's a different version of this story where
Speaker 3: they never look for Cassie and it never leads down
Speaker 3: that way. And but there's this one villainous guy who,
Speaker 3: for some reason that we're still kind of waiting to
Speaker 3: find out, has this fervent hatred of what happens and
Speaker 3: needs to solve the crime, you know, And I'm interested
Speaker 3: to see where that goes. But I really thought that
Speaker 3: was one of the most interesting choices was when the
Speaker 3: kind of corrupt boss of PM was or the security
Speaker 3: kind of corpos was like, you know what, they're in
Speaker 3: the wrong place at the wrong time, Like sorry, to
Speaker 3: those men like you shouldn't. I thought that was a
Speaker 3: really interesting character point that feels much again, much more
Speaker 3: grounded in reality than this idea of the well put
Speaker 3: together empire who will take down anyone who dares to
Speaker 3: question them. This is real people in the beginnings of
Speaker 3: what kind of working in the groundwork, this depressing grunt
Speaker 3: work of this kind of fascistic empire is very interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a show that I'm super excited about
Speaker 1: continuing to talk about because the ideas here are just
Speaker 1: so so huge. Big thank you to Jessica Goal for
Speaker 1: joining us, and of course a big thank you for
Speaker 1: Rosie Night for co hosting X ray Vision Today. Rosie
Speaker 1: more plugs, what have you two plug?
Speaker 3: You can find me Rosie Marx on Instagram and letterbox.
Speaker 3: That's also in the show notes. You can also find
Speaker 3: my articles and stuff like that in the show notes.
Speaker 3: I will hopefully I have some more exciting comic book
Speaker 3: news coming soon, and obviously you can always hear me
Speaker 3: here with you.
Speaker 1: Catch the next episode on September thirtieth, and subscribe to
Speaker 1: the show on YouTube. Please follow us on at XRV
Speaker 1: pod on Twitter, and don't forget in the show notes
Speaker 1: is our link to the discord. Check out the discord.
Speaker 1: Come hang out with us, Come hang out with the community.
Speaker 1: Lots of friendly, generous and really smart people there. Rosie
Speaker 1: and I are active there all the time. Don't forget
Speaker 1: Send your House to the Dragon questions to ask Theemaster
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. And if you want to hear
Speaker 1: our full conversation this week on House of the Dragon
Speaker 1: and Rings a Power check out. The first episode should
Speaker 1: be in your feed, which we have already released. If
Speaker 1: you're listening to this one, that one is out as well.
Speaker 1: We want your five star reviews. Give us those five
Speaker 1: star ratings on your podcast platform of choice. Here's a
Speaker 1: great one from smirtalk. Jason Concepcian and Rosie Night are
Speaker 1: crushing it. Love the energy. This podcast gives super fun
Speaker 1: commentary on the industry and unique insights and fantastic reviews
Speaker 1: reactions on the latest your culture shows and movies. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much, smurtle K, Thank you, how nice.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 1: X ray Vision is a Crooked Media production of the
Speaker 1: show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. The
Speaker 1: show is executive produced by myself and Sandy Garhard are
Speaker 1: editing and sound Designers by Vascillis Fatopoulos, Dilon Villanueva and
Speaker 1: Matt De Group provide video production support. Alex Rellaford handle
Speaker 1: social media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for theme music. See
Speaker 1: you next time, Everybody,