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Speaker 1: Are you needing a save space to learn how you

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Speaker 1: can get your mind right? Tune into Emani's State of Mind,

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Speaker 1: a weekly podcast hosted by psychiatrist and TV personality doctor

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Speaker 1: Imani Walker and co host comedian Meg scoop Thomas, two smart,

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Speaker 1: successful women and mothers sharing their personal and professional experiences

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Speaker 1: to help normalize conversations around mental health. This is not

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Speaker 1: your average mental health show. Each week they break down

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Speaker 1: what's happening in news, pop culture, and their very own

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Speaker 1: experiences managing mental health. Together, you will laugh, keep it real,

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Speaker 1: and create a safe space where everyone can get help

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Speaker 1: with their issues. Nothing is off the table. Doctor Emani

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Speaker 1: Walker and Meg Scoop Thomas discuss everything from relationships with yourself,

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Speaker 1: with your spouse, and your parents, to the realities of

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Speaker 1: postpartum depression and anxiety. Do not forget to take a

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Speaker 1: deep breath, find your calm, and get into Emani's State

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Speaker 1: of Mind. With new episodes dropping every Friday wherever you

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Speaker 1: get your podcasts. The first vote by mail ballots are

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Speaker 1: hitting people's mailboxes and the earliest in person early voting

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Speaker 1: starts this week. Do you know how you're voting? If

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Speaker 1: your answer is, it's September. I haven't thought about it.

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Speaker 1: I'd like, Am I going to go to my Halloween

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Speaker 1: party's dresses? Mando? Am I going to go as a

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Speaker 1: character from Legally Blonde? I haven't decided yet. To get

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Speaker 1: off my back. This is the week to get your

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Speaker 1: shit together on both counts, both for voting and for

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Speaker 1: your Halloween costume. Voter suppression efforts have ramped up following

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Speaker 1: the twenty twenty election, making an even more critical to

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Speaker 1: ensure that every American has access to the ballot box.

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Speaker 1: At vote save America, you can find the most up

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Speaker 1: to date information on what you need to make sure

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Speaker 1: your vote is counted in all fifty states and the

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Speaker 1: District of Columbia give Puerto Rico the statehood as well.

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Speaker 1: Use our ballot Ready tool to request your ballot, find

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Speaker 1: out how you can return it or get a reminder

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Speaker 1: for when in person early voting locations become available in

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Speaker 1: your state. To win in November, it's going to take

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Speaker 1: every single one of us making our plan to vote,

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Speaker 1: getting involved, and reminding everyone we know to do the same.

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Speaker 1: Once you've made your plan to vote, visit vote Saveamerica

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Speaker 1: dot com slash every last vote to find out what

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Speaker 1: you can do next, including donating to the Every Last

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Speaker 1: Vote Fund to directly support the work of community organizations, organizers,

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Speaker 1: and volunteers in states that are actively working to battle

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Speaker 1: disenfranchisement in communities of color, including in Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan,

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Speaker 1: and more. Warning, this podcast contains spoilers for She Hulk

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Speaker 1: episode six and and Or episodes one through three. We're

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Speaker 1: releasing two episodes this week, so be sure to check

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Speaker 1: out both for our full conversation. Hello, my name is

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Speaker 1: Jason Sepsio, and welcome to X ray Vision, the Crooked

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Speaker 1: podcast where we're deep it's your favorite shows, movies, comments,

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Speaker 1: and pop culture. On episode two this week, the episode

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Speaker 1: you're listening to, we are talking to Shee Hulk head

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Speaker 1: writer Jessica Gal and we will be discussing She Hulk

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Speaker 1: episode six with it, which is a crazy crazy it

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Speaker 1: just goes crazy. The episode goes crazy. And we will

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Speaker 1: be discussing the latest entry in Star Wars television and

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Speaker 1: or episodes one through three or out now on Disney Plus,

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Speaker 1: so we'll be talking about that in a more general

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Speaker 1: way to give you give you all time to digest

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Speaker 1: the episodes. Then we'll be going on a deeper dive

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Speaker 1: in weeks to come, and of course joining us today

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Speaker 1: is Rosie Dyke.

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Speaker 2: It's me.

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Speaker 3: I'm hey yeah. Let's go.

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Speaker 1: As always, everyone, check the show notes for the time stamps.

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Speaker 1: If you want to jump around and listen to the

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Speaker 1: things that you want to listen to. Let's go back

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Speaker 1: into the courtroom or the wedding, the wedding hall, whatever

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Speaker 1: the case may be, and talk about She Haul. Episode six,

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Speaker 1: Episode six, Just Jen, written by Cara Brown directed by

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Speaker 1: Anu Vallia lots to get into quick recap. Jen has

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Speaker 1: to go to a wedding where she discovers that her

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Speaker 1: arch rival, her arch foe, Titanya, is also a wedding guest,

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Speaker 1: and is this some sort of part of this some

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Speaker 1: sort of plot for Titanya to defeat Jen publicly in

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Speaker 1: front of everyone. And then back in the law firm,

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Speaker 1: Mallory and Nicki are dealing with the case of a

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Speaker 1: gentleman who goes by the name of mister Immortal Dun

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Speaker 1: Dun Dun dud du Duh, who cannot die because you know,

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Speaker 1: according to the comics, he's a flat out mutant and

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Speaker 1: he has been using this power to not die to

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Speaker 1: you fraud, various romantic partners and business partners by quote

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Speaker 1: unquote faking his death. Lots to get into, so let's

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Speaker 1: just get into it. Fun episode once again.

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Speaker 3: This is just such a fun show, and I feel

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Speaker 3: like I'm really impressed by how much fun they have

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Speaker 3: digging into the weirder parts of Marvel. Like, obviously, mister Moore,

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Speaker 3: that's a big deal. So technically he is everyone in

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Speaker 3: the Marvel universe sees him as a mutant, and technically

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Speaker 3: he is a mutant. But the thing that's really interesting

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Speaker 3: is he is the only member of the evolutionary race

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Speaker 3: known as the Homo Supreme, so he's like one above

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Speaker 3: a mutant, but he is for all extents and purposes

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Speaker 3: and presents as Homo Superior, which is a mutant. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's it. That's just like huge to have him here

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Speaker 3: and also just use it in such an absolutely hilarious

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Speaker 3: she Hulk way where it's like this guy has been

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Speaker 3: defrauding people he loves because he can't have confrontation by

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Speaker 3: just killing himself. It's like really bleak but also very

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Speaker 3: hilarious and very comic.

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Speaker 4: Bookie, and he he is like this is an extremely

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Speaker 4: big episode in a lot of ways, because it shows

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Speaker 4: us not only that the creative team here obviously absolutely hilarious.

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Speaker 1: But also this is the most comic book nerdy. Yeah, Like, like.

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Speaker 3: He talks about when he's there, he's talking about how

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Speaker 3: he's got a lot of money, right, and part of

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Speaker 3: how he got a lot of money is because his

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Speaker 3: ex wife left him a bunch of gold Baroness Cromwell

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Speaker 3: aka Baroness Blood. So this is just like they were

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Speaker 3: just like, yeah, go for it. They were like, so,

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Speaker 3: tell us, who are up.

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Speaker 1: Tell us who Baroness Blood is, and then let's dive

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Speaker 1: into the really actually quite funny backstory of who mister

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Speaker 1: Immortal is, at least in the comic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So, Baroness Blood is like a really weird, creepy

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Speaker 3: character who was first introduced hilariously in everyone's favorite comic

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Speaker 3: Uni and Jack Number one. So she's actually from nineteen

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Speaker 3: ninety eight, which isn't obviously that far away, but she

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Speaker 3: is part of now like most well known as a

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Speaker 3: part of the Legion of the Unliving, which is like

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Speaker 3: a group of vampires who were brought together by Dracula.

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Speaker 3: So you can basically say, like we've had a Donnie

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Speaker 3: Blaze Johnny Blaze joke, in this season, we're now getting

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Speaker 3: into the realm where vampires probably exist.

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Speaker 1: They're now just mutant surgery casually.

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Speaker 3: Not only that, but as we as we guess, so

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Speaker 3: I'm taking this as we were right. We said post

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Speaker 3: Miss Marvel, what they were going to do was just

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Speaker 3: introduce random mutants here and there. They're gonna say, here's

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Speaker 3: a mutant, here's someone who's been living with these crazy powers,

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Speaker 3: and we're just gonna build them into the the world.

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Speaker 3: And that's exactly what they're doing with mister Immortal, and

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Speaker 3: with the way that they're just casually kind of dropping

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Speaker 3: in these things. I mean, Baroness Blood is like a supernatural,

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Speaker 3: superpowered vampire. Makes sense that she would have married an immortal.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's a that's a her cup that works.

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Speaker 3: But basically you can now say that vampires one hundred

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Speaker 3: percent do exist in the MCU.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you this. My friends, comic book critic

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Speaker 1: and sports writer Matt Turtle DMed me and he was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I think you were talking about you and Rosie were

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Speaker 1: talking about why does Atlantis come to the fore. I

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Speaker 1: think they're going to do when they introduce mutants. I

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Speaker 1: think it's going to be similar to Atlanta's secret Society

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Speaker 1: Krakoa era, and they're all there and they reveal themselves

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Speaker 1: and then it's a question of how they, you know,

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Speaker 1: then become part of the wider society of that's indeed

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Speaker 1: what they decide to do. I kind of agree that

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Speaker 1: I think Krikoa is going to be around. But here

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Speaker 1: is what the appearance of mister Immortal suggests that, because

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Speaker 1: if Krocola is a thing, then mister Immortal should be

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Speaker 1: on the island, like why are you unless he's just

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Speaker 1: like rejected the gift to you, Cricola, because he's already

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Speaker 1: immortals that he doesn't need the crocoon gift. Here is

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Speaker 1: my Here is the other thing that I think, and

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Speaker 1: it you know, kind of details with mister Immortal. I

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Speaker 1: do think that kroko exists, But I also think, like

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Speaker 1: Warren Worthington and others, in a way that would seem

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Speaker 1: insidious to the wider society, have infiltrated human culture. You

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Speaker 1: know or you know or are not, have not revealed

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Speaker 1: themselves to be mutants, but are around and are doing

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Speaker 1: things and are some of them are powerbrokers in human society,

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Speaker 1: and I think that, uh, mister Immortal maybe points the

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Speaker 1: way at that. I agree it's mutants being around, but

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Speaker 1: have been kind of keeping it quiet for most of

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Speaker 1: human history until recently when it's like, oh, powered people

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Speaker 1: are around, maybe I can start being more obvious with

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Speaker 1: the things that I'm doing.

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Speaker 3: No, mister Moore makes a lot of sense in that context,

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Speaker 3: also because he's essentially living by what I like to

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Speaker 3: call like Twilight rules, where he's basically because he's been

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Speaker 3: alive for like a million years and he can never die.

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Speaker 3: He's just immensely rich. So in its own way, especially

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Speaker 3: in America and in like capitalism kind of culture, you

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Speaker 3: have infiltrated the highest parts of society just simply by

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Speaker 3: being incredibly wealthy. So that's exactly that kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: And also, as we know, if GLK and H didn't exist,

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Speaker 3: these women and Sebastian probably would never have actually know

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Speaker 3: that he was immortal and hadn't actually died. And if

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Speaker 3: they had seen the video that we will get to,

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Speaker 3: the Intelligencia video, they wouldn't have had a way to

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Speaker 3: get recompense. So I think that introducing this superhero law

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Speaker 3: firm is a really good way of seeding exactly what

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Speaker 3: you're talking about, where suddenly everyone's like, Okay, wait a minute,

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Speaker 3: I had a weird experience with this person or that

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Speaker 3: thing that I saw that one time, was that it

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Speaker 3: was that it like that one time that I randomly

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Speaker 3: don't remember something that happened when I got like men

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Speaker 3: in blacked and then suddenly my memories white. Like oh,

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Speaker 3: they said that was like retrograde amnesia, but maybe that

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Speaker 3: was actually like a mute and with mind control powers.

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Speaker 3: So this is kind of huge in that way as

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Speaker 3: well as just being very fun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because that that paranoia is is a thing that

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Speaker 1: we see a lot in X Men comics where parents

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Speaker 1: are like, oh my god, I think my child might

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Speaker 1: be a mutant. I think my coworker might be and

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Speaker 1: it and it creates this feeling of real fear in

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Speaker 1: the general population. I want to I want to note

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Speaker 1: that it's it's it's remarkable to me that one we

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Speaker 1: got mister immoral and he's just presented just as himself

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Speaker 1: with his powers, and no one at all has been like,

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Speaker 1: where did he get these? Where you're past the point

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Speaker 1: in the MCU where yeah, where did they get the

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Speaker 1: powers is really a question. They're just accepting that this

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Speaker 1: guy can do this, and no one has thought to ask, well,

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Speaker 1: how can how is he doing this?

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Speaker 3: That's my favorite thing about where we are now. It's

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Speaker 3: almost like with that brilliant moment at the end of

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Speaker 3: Miss Marvel that we all loved so much, which was

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Speaker 3: you know, it's a mutation that has basically opened the

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Speaker 3: doors now for us as the viewers to just say, oh,

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Speaker 3: well they might be a mutant. Oh everyone has powers now,

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Speaker 3: and it is giving a lot of leeway for the

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Speaker 3: show is to just say, hey, superheroes exist. You know

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Speaker 3: that you've been in this world for twenty five movies.

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Speaker 3: Now it's just happening. But yeah, I did find it,

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Speaker 3: especially a power like being immortal, Yeah, is a pretty

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Speaker 3: intense power to have.

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Speaker 1: And nobody he's not an as guardian elf. No, he's

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Speaker 1: not a former super soldier, he was not you know,

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Speaker 1: subject to a radioactive accident. He's just running around with

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Speaker 1: these very intense and yeah, nobody's talking about.

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Speaker 3: Making a mallory just like so you can die, you

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Speaker 3: can't die like do that like which one? Like, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's very it's a very interesting time to be in

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Speaker 3: the MCUs.

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Speaker 1: It's great. Yeah, okay, so so much. In that last

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Speaker 1: kind of stinger scene where you know, Jen is having

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Speaker 1: you know, the kind of the plate of frime at

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Speaker 1: the end of the wedding, after the big fight with Titania,

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Speaker 1: kind of bonding with this guy who seems, you know,

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Speaker 1: pretty accepting and certainly maybe attracted to Jen, and they're

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Speaker 1: they're sharing this plate of fries, and then we zoom

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Speaker 1: out and it's clear that somebody is keeping track of Gen.

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Speaker 1: We go to a futuristic lab where there is a

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Speaker 1: screen where we see someone named Hulk King capitalized in

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Speaker 1: a very interesting way, certainly in a way that would

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Speaker 1: lead us to speculate about hulk cling hulk ling? Is

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Speaker 1: that what that means? Saying, okay, where are we with

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Speaker 1: with Jen? We should note that this is exactly how

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Speaker 1: mister Blue communicated with mister Green in h in the

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Speaker 1: Incredible Hulk movie starring Ed Norton. And then you know,

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Speaker 1: we see the the bench needle that the wrecking crew

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Speaker 1: attempted to stab Jen with, and then we see another

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Speaker 1: needle being snapped onto a new syringe and it's early,

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Speaker 1: but I'm gonna call we were right on this, the

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Speaker 1: adamantium needle because the sound effect the sound effect listen,

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Speaker 1: it might be vibradium, but the sound it was so distinct,

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Speaker 1: and it led me to one in the comics, the

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Speaker 1: only thing that can penetrate the Hulk skin is an

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Speaker 1: adamantium needle. We've seen it, seen it numerous times in

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Speaker 1: the comics. And two, the sound it makes is very

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Speaker 1: much it's evocative. It's evocative of Wolverine's claw.

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Speaker 3: Also, I would just say we were right. We can

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Speaker 3: do a two part we were right.

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Speaker 2: One.

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Speaker 3: I also agree, I think it has to be adamantium needle.

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Speaker 3: They're just throwing mutants around now. I don't see any issue.

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Speaker 3: We've had multiple wolverine stick like Easter eggs at this

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Speaker 3: point with stuff and magical but also as well, we

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Speaker 3: were right. We knew they would make a new needle

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Speaker 3: that would be made of some kind of super strong

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Speaker 3: metal adamantium or vibranium. So I will be yeah, I

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Speaker 3: would say we can take aw we were right. And

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Speaker 3: also if it's an adamantium needle, obviously that's so exciting

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Speaker 3: because most people who are listening, I think will probably

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Speaker 3: know Adamantium is the metal that covers Wolverine's bones and

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Speaker 3: his claws in the X Men comics, and in that

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Speaker 3: plays a large part in the in the X Men movies.

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Speaker 3: So again we're moving towards that mutant space.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so let's talk about two things here in that scene.

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Speaker 1: One Hulk King. Who is he? Okay, who is he

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Speaker 1: or her? Who are they?

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Speaker 3: So? I think I think that you're very right that

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Speaker 3: they want it. Again, if we're talking about evocative stuff,

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Speaker 3: I think they want it to evoke hulk Ling. It

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Speaker 3: looks the same. Also Hulk Link and hulk Ling is

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Speaker 3: Scroll Royalty, you know, so he is technically a Hulk King.

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Speaker 3: I also think so. The reason that we know is

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Speaker 3: that another thing we need to talk about is the

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Speaker 3: way that it pops up. It is very evocative of

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Speaker 3: a website that we just saw, which was called the Intelligentsia,

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Speaker 3: which was kind of this MRA four chan esque website

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Speaker 3: where a lot of dudes would just told me how

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Speaker 3: much they hate Sheaholk and they want to kill Shee Hulk.

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Speaker 3: But that in itself is really important because in the comics,

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Speaker 3: the Intelligentsia was this villain knowledge sharing group that ended

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Speaker 3: up becoming a supervillain group, and they were the ones

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Speaker 3: who created Red Hulk, which you find out in twenty

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Speaker 3: ten's Hulk twenty three. They were the ones who convinced

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Speaker 3: Thunderbolt Ross to take the Hulk serum and become Red Hulk.

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Speaker 3: So there's also that aspect where it's like, we thought

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Speaker 3: we're heading towards I think we're heading towards Red Hulk

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Speaker 3: slash Red she Hulk for sure. Yeah, yeah, And so

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Speaker 3: like is what I think is really interesting is we

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Speaker 3: thought Tim Blake Nelson the leader, was gonna be the

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Speaker 3: one kind of the Machiavelli and guy behind the curtain.

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Speaker 3: He could be he could see himself because the Hulk King.

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Speaker 3: But I will also say he is a really good scientist.

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Speaker 3: He could actually just be running that lab. And whoever

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Speaker 3: is actually behind this, who is the Hulk King?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 3: For all we know this is I'm gonna throw out

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Speaker 3: a really out there one. Yeah, what if like in

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Speaker 3: the comics, so what if Bruce has gone back to Saka,

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Speaker 3: Jen cannot Jen cannot get in touch with him?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Tim foyl hatting this one, right? What if Scar

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Speaker 3: Hulk's son is already on Earth and is the one

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Speaker 3: who is doing all of this because he hates his dad,

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Speaker 3: which is a very canon comic book thing. And he

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Speaker 3: is actually the one who's trying to find out about

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Speaker 3: how Hulk blood works. He's the one who's trying to

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Speaker 3: find out who she Hulk is. There's all different things

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Speaker 3: that could be coming into play here, and I kind

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Speaker 3: of I'm very impressed by how they took what we

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Speaker 3: thought was a pretty simple but with a lot of

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Speaker 3: fun stuff, Like we had the Elliot Franklin theory, we

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Speaker 3: had a lot of different fun stuff. But I love

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Speaker 3: that now they've turned it on its head and now

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Speaker 3: there's like ah other people because Intelligency has so many

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Speaker 3: Hulk villains in it too, so as well as like

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Speaker 3: modoc Red, Ghost, Doctor Doom, like all different kinds of people.

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Speaker 3: So there's just so much here that they're playing with

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Speaker 3: that the whole King thing just kind of blew my

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Speaker 3: mind because I'm like, I need to know. And also,

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Speaker 3: isn't just one of these crazy Intelligency website guys who

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Speaker 3: just has a ton of money. I know one of

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Speaker 3: the discs in our discord. A lot of people have

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Speaker 3: been guessing that the guy who went on a date

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Speaker 3: with who was like a real creep who then ended

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Speaker 3: up at the office. Yeah, he might be the villain.

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Speaker 3: And now we know that there's a whole king, super rich,

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Speaker 3: wealthy like hate strong women, you know, so that would

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Speaker 3: also be really interesting.

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Speaker 1: Chris producer Chris uh is raising a theory in the chat.

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Speaker 1: Could Josh cute guy at the wedding who eat the

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Speaker 1: fries with in that moment in that you know, as

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Speaker 1: the secret camera wherever that's hidden, like zooms out and

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Speaker 1: we see that she's being observed, Josh is there with her.

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Speaker 1: Could Josh cute guy at the wedding end up being

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Speaker 1: a fake out name and he's actually the whole king.

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Speaker 1: I like that as well.

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Speaker 3: I think Chris is definitely onto something.

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Speaker 1: Because they introduced that guy in a way. He can't

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Speaker 1: be just like another nice thing exactly, and he knows.

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Speaker 3: He goes in there with the exact specific attack of

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Speaker 3: I don't just like sheehowk I like gen which publicly

350
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Speaker 3: was just a huge thing in a lawsuit, And then

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Speaker 3: it seems very unlikely to me that he would. He's

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Speaker 3: got her in her gen form because he likes Jen. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and he so that means you can get her blood

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Speaker 3: even without an adamantium needle. Potentially, but adamantium needle's a

355
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Speaker 3: good choice just because you don't know how someone's human

356
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Speaker 3: skin could take on its hulk skin form. But then

357
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Speaker 3: he's sitting right in the right place in front of

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Speaker 3: the camera so that she can be seen. I think

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Speaker 3: Josh is sadly at least intelligentsia.

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Speaker 1: Adjacent adjacent. Yeah, I'll say this, we I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's the leader for the following reason. Just put a

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Speaker 1: syringe in your own arm, right, Okay, so he's that

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Speaker 1: you got the game blood? Is he being established? I'll

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Speaker 1: just say that we have established that gens blood is

365
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Speaker 1: super special and even in the context of gamma radiated blood,

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Speaker 1: it allowed Bruce to heal his arm. It has different properties.

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Speaker 1: That said, it feels like the leader would be focused elsewhere.

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Speaker 3: Maybe the Leader wants Gen's blood to cure himself because

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Speaker 3: he's like deformed and kind of messed up by it.

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Speaker 3: But also, how would he know that Gen's blood is

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Speaker 3: bad blood? I think I think with the intelligentsia, the

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Speaker 3: whole king, I think that all leads to this idea

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Speaker 3: of somebody creating a Red Hulk or a red Shea Holk,

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Speaker 3: which we had long wondered about, and I will just say,

375
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Speaker 3: would be a very cool way to reintroduce liv Tyler

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Speaker 3: to the MCU, because Betty is Red she Holk in

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Speaker 3: the comics originally, and I just think that would be

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Speaker 3: so cool.

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Speaker 1: Do you think I agree with the jilted date as

380
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Speaker 1: being an intelligencier person? But do you think there's any

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Speaker 1: you think Modoc or any of the super ape or

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Speaker 1: any of the rest are involved in this.

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Speaker 3: I think that they. I think they have long they

384
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Speaker 3: have long talked about bringing Modoc to the MCU. I

385
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Speaker 3: think he's going to be in the MCU. I don't

386
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Speaker 3: think this is where, but I do think that knowing

387
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Speaker 3: she Hulk, we could see some super weird characters like

388
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Speaker 3: awesome Android and like other people who've been in the intelligentsia.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so Chris just mentioned that he Yeah, Modoc's

390
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Speaker 3: confirmed in Quantumania. We've already seen some leaked mm HM

391
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Speaker 3: visuals of what potentially he could look like. But like,

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Speaker 3: I think that knowing Sheeholt, they're gonna go for the

393
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Speaker 3: weird now. Now, look, Modoc is very weird I'm not

394
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Speaker 3: saying that, but Modoch is unbelievably complex character to bring

395
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Speaker 3: to life. Yes, and I think that in Quantumania you

396
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Speaker 3: probably can dedicate a couple of years to somebody just

397
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Speaker 3: building Modoc and working out how he would look. You know,

398
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Speaker 3: if you haven't seen him, he's like basically a giant

399
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Speaker 3: floating head.

400
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Speaker 1: Producer Saul with a extremely tinfoil hat comes with I

401
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: wonder if Josh's Amideas show.

402
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Speaker 3: Like, oh my god, I wish that was the case.

403
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Speaker 1: I don't think that that. I like where your head

404
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: is at. But one, this feels a little bit low

405
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: stakes for the the genius of Amidea's Chow. And two

406
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Speaker 1: I think they probably cast youngerls.

407
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 3: What if if it was Amadeus Chow. What if hypothetically

408
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 3: me and Chris are right but wrong, Like, instead of

409
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 3: just being a part of the intelligencia, he's actually there

410
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 3: to protect Jen because of his super genius. You know,

411
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 3: I would I agree with you, though I think if

412
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Speaker 3: you're going to do Amadeus, you're going to probably make

413
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 3: him like a super teen. But I do really like

414
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Speaker 3: that idea, and I don't think it's that of the

415
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 3: realm of possibility simply because we know that this is

416
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Speaker 3: a place where they're basically introducing slash reintroducing a lot

417
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 3: of the Hulk family.

418
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:41,120
Speaker 1: I agreed, And I also, you know, to Chris's point,

419
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Speaker 1: the monarch is confirmed for Quantumnia, it does. It feels

420
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: a little bit like, you know, not to not to

421
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Speaker 1: ruin the magic by peaking too far behind the curtain.

422
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 1: But I imagine that one and part of the reason

423
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Speaker 1: they're digging so deep into the crates is because whoever

424
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 1: the Marvel lore keeper is at mcu is, you know,

425
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: was like, oh no, you can't use that person because

426
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Speaker 1: we're using them for this. Can we use modoc No,

427
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Speaker 1: Monoc's and Quantumanians we can't use them. Can we use

428
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: you know, us Asian and I can't use you as Yeah, ZIGGI,

429
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: I mean.

430
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 3: That's like, you know, he was there to he was

431
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 3: pulling those deep cut places out, so you didn't have

432
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 3: that crossover for sure.

433
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 1: So I feel like, you know, for all the implications,

434
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 1: and there are many, I would imagine that it's there's

435
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: a world where Marvel is having similar conversations where they're like, okay,

436
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: they use this weird character. I wonder what all the

437
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: implications that we could then generate stories off of from there.

438
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 3: I also think as well, the other thing that we

439
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 3: know that the MCU loves to do. I mean, it's

440
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 3: part of why we're here with our tim for hat

441
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 3: theories and are we will writes and stuff. They love

442
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 3: to seed stuff. So I'm sure that by introducing the intelligentsia,

443
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 3: they knew people were going to make that connection to

444
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 3: monoc And there is a world where we even hear

445
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 3: someone fends, you know, the machine designed only for killing

446
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 3: or something like. There's I feel like there's a way

447
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,919
Speaker 3: that they can they can still have or they have

448
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 3: someone just say you know, of course, and they send

449
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:15,959
Speaker 3: an email and the emails to light modoc, like they

450
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 3: can do that fun stuff where they see it in

451
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 3: without necessarily having to show like the giant floating head creature,

452
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 3: you know. So yeah, I just like, I this was

453
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 3: such a fun episode, but like you said, it's the implications,

454
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 3: like they're having fun, but they're also like vampires exist Wolverine,

455
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 3: Like it's it's really fun stuff.

456
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 1: Okay, Adamantium versus Vibranium here is my take. And obviously

457
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: you know there's also the possibility there could be some

458
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: other weird super you know, some titanium alloy that they're like, okay,

459
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: maybe this will you know that it's not necessarily adamantium,

460
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: although again clearly they want us to think that. Here's

461
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: why I think here's my case for it not being vibranium.

462
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: We stablished. While we have established that vibranium is a

463
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: wonder metal that has a lot of really amazing properties,

464
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: among them being extreme durability, the other thing that we've

465
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: established with vibranium is that the number one thing about

466
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: it that really makes it special is that it absorbs

467
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: and releases kinetic energy. We see that with the Black

468
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: Panther suit. It's got this property of it can absorb

469
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: all the damage and all the hits that are being

470
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 1: directed towards it, and then it can release it as

471
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: like a focused energy plast So it's got that property

472
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 1: to it that is a very distinctly different Like you

473
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily need that for a needle. What you need

474
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: for a needle that you want to pierce the hulk

475
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: skin is just is it unbreakable? Will it bend? Is it?

476
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 1: Is it indestructible? Basically, and that is the key difference

477
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 1: between these two wonder metals is that both are really

478
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: really really strong. Viranium is almost indestructible, but adamantium, unless

479
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: you bring it to its melting point, is basically in

480
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 1: destruct yea, like you can't bring it there.

481
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 3: Is like there is like obviously times because it's comic books,

482
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 3: where like I believe it was like Ultimate Hulk managed

483
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 3: to break an adamantium needle or something. Yeah, but like

484
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 3: in general, Adimantium's going through whatever they want it to

485
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 3: go through. We've seen it with Wolverine, We've seen it.

486
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,479
Speaker 3: And also, look, they make these shows. These shows are

487
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 3: made by people who love this stuff. They're made by

488
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 3: people like zeb Wells and Zig who make the comics.

489
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 3: They know if you create, if you end an episode

490
00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:01,239
Speaker 3: with a needle that looks really big and shiny and

491
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 3: goes into a syringe with a kind of like click snick,

492
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 3: they know that people are going to say, oh, that's

493
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 3: an adamantium needle. Now we also know that because of

494
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 3: how this show has been and how funny they are

495
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 3: and how much they kind of enjoy playing with expectations,

496
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 3: it could literally next week they'll be like, oh, yeah,

497
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 3: this is a this is a very strong needle called

498
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 3: like adamantium, and there's something that they it's like this

499
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 3: step before adamantium on like the But you know that

500
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 3: it's just the reason it's fun is because we get

501
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 3: to guess. And also I will say, I think with

502
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 3: everything else in this episode, I believe it being Adamantium

503
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 3: is very very likely because, like I said, they just

504
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 3: casually revealed that vampires just fully exist fully are real,

505
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 3: and also this mutant vampires are running around. I think

506
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 3: that Adamantium in that context could definitely be real and

507
00:29:59,480 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 3: a thing.

508
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: Well, let's welcome She Hulk head writer Jessica Gow to

509
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: the show now and ask her some questions potentially including

510
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: whether or not that's adamantium, and is mister Immortal a mutant?

511
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: And does that mean Kurkoha is not a thing right now?

512
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: Questions I'm sure she will answer.

513
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 3: Definitely, Gonta give us all the answers.

514
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: A whole new batch of progressive merch just dropped at

515
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: the Cricket Store with teas, hats and bumper stickers that

516
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: are all about demanding reproductive justice, canceling student debt, and

517
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: making our democracy work. You can show where you stand

518
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: even while you sit in traffic, hitch to the Cricket

519
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: Store and pick out something to wear to the voting

520
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: booth or just on your morning coffee run. You guys

521
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: know how T shirts where you wear them anywhere. Check

522
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: it out at cricket dot com slash store.

523
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 3: This week in the Hive Mind, where we bring on

524
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 3: experts to discuss their work and more, X ray Vision

525
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 3: is thrilled to welcome she holkhead writer Jessica Gow.

526
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,239
Speaker 2: Hello, thanks for having me.

527
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 3: Oh, thanks so much for coming on. So like one

528
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 3: of the questions we always ask, because this is the

529
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 3: bread and butter of what we do and what we

530
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 3: care about, like what's your origin story of comics? Like

531
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 3: how did you find comics? What do you care about?

532
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 3: What was it about comics that made you fall in

533
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 3: love with them? Or do you not care about comics

534
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 3: at all and just ended up on the nam Shiyusha.

535
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 5: I was a lifelong comic book reader. When I was

536
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 5: a kid, I read mostly manga because I was born

537
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 5: in China and I immigrated to America when I was young,

538
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 5: and my relatives in China, you know, I was like

539
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 5: a bookworm, and so they would always want to send

540
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 5: me gifts, you know, because they missed me, or because

541
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 5: somebody went to visit and you have to send.

542
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 2: A gift, you know.

543
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 5: And they would all because the one thing they knew

544
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 5: about me.

545
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 2: Was that I loved reading.

546
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 5: They were they would constantly send me Chinese bootlegs of

547
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 5: whatever was like the hot manga in at the time.

548
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 5: And so I just had like stacks of bootleg comics

549
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 5: that I that I read constantly, you know. And so

550
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 5: it was a lot of like dragon Ball and like

551
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 5: Grandma and U U Hockey Show, City Hunter Cati, you know,

552
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 5: stuff like that, like whatever was hot in Japan and

553
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 5: that the bootleggers felt was worth bootlegging.

554
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 2: That's what I got.

555
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 5: And then when I got more into when I was more,

556
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 5: when I was a teenager, that's when I got into

557
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,479
Speaker 5: reading like more, you know, like American comics, and like

558
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 5: my first job in high school was at the local

559
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 5: com book store.

560
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: Oh that's so yeah.

561
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 5: But I was never, like, to be fair, honest, I

562
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 5: was never huge on mainstream comics. Like I didn't read

563
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 5: a lot of Marvel or DC. I mostly like the

564
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 5: most mainstream I read was probably like Image and Vertigo comics.

565
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 5: And then I and but I really got heavily into

566
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 5: like the indie stuff, you know, like anything that like

567
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:23,239
Speaker 5: fanographics put out slave Liver graphics drawn and quarterly like

568
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 5: that was like more my jam, you know.

569
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: So how did you get attached to Sheehook? What was

570
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: the process, Like, what was your take on the character

571
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: that got you the gig?

572
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 2: Well, they they knew me.

573
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 5: I mean I've told the story a few times now.

574
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 5: Where she helped was the fourth time I pitched at Marvel.

575
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 5: So it's the fourth project I pitched there, which means that,

576
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 5: you know, I was rejected three times before I got home.

577
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 5: But she was always my favorite character from Marvel Comics,

578
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 5: and so I like all three other times that I

579
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 5: got rejected, I would bring up she Hulk and be like, guys,

580
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 5: if you do she Hulky, gotta you gotta call your girl.

581
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 5: And then I would threatened Arson if they didn't, you know,

582
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 5: just so they knew I was serious. Yeah and yeah,

583
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 5: And so when I went into pitch she Hulk, I mean,

584
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 5: anytime I pitched TV, it always starts with character, you know,

585
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 5: like you have to care about this main character to

586
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 5: want to hang out with them a week after week.

587
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 5: And for me, like you know, what I loved about

588
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 5: she Hult from the comics was just how meta the

589
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 5: burn run was. That was the run that made me

590
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 5: fall in love with she Hulked and her break and

591
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 5: the fourth Wall, Like how irreverent she was, how funny

592
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 5: she was. You know, she didn't take like being in

593
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 5: comics too seriously. Like there was just this levity to

594
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 5: it that I really found really refreshing, you know, and

595
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 5: so especially since you know, like I think the most

596
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,280
Speaker 5: mainstream stuff I read in when I was a teenager

597
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 5: was probably Batman comics, and that's always very dark and serious,

598
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 5: you know, so like something like she Hulk is just

599
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 5: it's so like the polar opposite and tone wise, and

600
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 5: I just it was just.

601
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 2: Like a breath of fresh air.

602
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 5: So how I approached the character was, you know, I

603
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 5: just felt like I could really relate to her.

604
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 2: You know, I thought about our similarities. You know, we're

605
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 2: both women in our.

606
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 5: Thirties with careers, like very focused on work, and but

607
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 5: also you know, had friends, had like you know, family

608
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 5: that we talked to, unlike a lot of comic characters.

609
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 5: But then I thought, like, you know, if this thing

610
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 5: happened to me one day, I there was an accident

611
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 5: and I got superpowers and I became a Hulk, and

612
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 5: there were all these expectations that now I would have

613
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 5: to be a superhero.

614
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 2: I'd be fucking furious.

615
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 5: Because I mean, if you look at the shirt I'm wearing,

616
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 5: it says I'm tired, and that's how I feel like

617
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 5: every day, and so I would be like, I'm too

618
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 5: tired to add one more thing to my plate. And

619
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 5: also like I didn't ask for this, like no, thank you.

620
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 2: You know, like if I was.

621
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 5: A lawyer and I'd gone through like law school and

622
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 5: I'd rapped up six figures in student loans, like who's.

623
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 2: Gonna pay that?

624
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 5: They're not gonna forgive the debt just because I'm a

625
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 5: superhero nowt Like I'm still on the hook to pay

626
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 5: that off, you know, Like oh, I'm supposed to just

627
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 5: like stop everything and but still have to deal with

628
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 5: all the ramifications like just because it happened, like I

629
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 5: would be you know what I mean, Like there's oh, yeah,

630
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 5: there's so much messiness in the minute sho of what happens.

631
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 5: Like yeah, there's the big concept of like, oh, you

632
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 5: have powers and now you have to be a superhero.

633
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 5: But it's like, but let's look at all the detail,

634
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,760
Speaker 5: you know, like where are you gonna get.

635
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 2: Your health care from? Who's who's providing that? Like, yeah,

636
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 2: how do you get paid? Like how do you what's

637
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 2: your retirement place? Girl? Like that's all stuff we have

638
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 2: to think about. Yeah.

639
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 3: I actually wrote an article off the falcon in the

640
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 3: Winter Esolgia, the episode where Sam Wilson said that the

641
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 3: Avengers didn't get paid and that Tony didn't pay them,

642
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 3: and I was like, this has broken my breath on

643
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 3: this side of my brain. It's like, how do they live,

644
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 3: how do they have insurance? How do they do anything?

645
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 2: You know?

646
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 3: And so something I'm interested about because that kind of

647
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 3: aspect of Minutia and the slice of life aspect of

648
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 3: the show is something that we love so much. Do

649
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 3: you feel like your love of like indie comics stuff

650
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 3: like you mentioned fantographics, I'm guessing like Love and Rockets,

651
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,760
Speaker 3: stuff like that. That's like one of my favorite comics.

652
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 3: Do you feel like you brought those storytelling sensibilities to

653
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 3: Shee Hulk as well by kind of looking more at

654
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 3: like the holistic life of the character, like indie comics

655
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,800
Speaker 3: sometimes do, rather than just that big concept superhero stuff.

656
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, definitely, because you know, I didn't really approach this

657
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 5: following a traditional superhero formula. You know, it was definitely

658
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 5: more about like the tone was a lot more important,

659
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 5: you know, and like it's not a plot heavy show.

660
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 2: It's an episode.

661
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 5: It's a very episodic show, and it's very much about

662
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 5: the life of life, you know, and it really is.

663
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 5: It's exactly like you said, it's this like kind of holistic,

664
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 5: well rounded look of like what is the totality of

665
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 5: this person's life.

666
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,439
Speaker 1: One thing that is really resonating with us as comic

667
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: book nerds is just how this is the most comic

668
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: book nerd show from Marvel. Yeah, it really is. Like

669
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,399
Speaker 1: the way it just present, you know, the way mister

670
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: Immortals shows up and he's just been around, he's just

671
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: been around doing his mister Immortal thing in the world,

672
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: and it's taken as part of the texture of this space,

673
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,720
Speaker 1: and that is that's part of the excitement of reading

674
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: comics when I was a kid, to me is just

675
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: having a window open into this entire, vibrant world where

676
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: people are running around doing things, going to the gym,

677
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 1: going shopping, using their powers for good and ill. How

678
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: much of that was really was what you were going for,

679
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: where you're going to like, we're gonna pull from all

680
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: these different things, and we're not even going to be like,

681
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 1: how did mister Mortal get his powers? Forget about it,

682
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: We're just going to present it's running around.

683
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, you know, it just it felt like

684
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 5: we're over a decade into the MCU, like and you know,

685
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,760
Speaker 5: every other movie introduces a new character, a new superhero,

686
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 5: somebody with powers, you know, and like they're they're in

687
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 5: the double digits now, you know, so people in their

688
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 5: world have been living with this for years and years

689
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 5: and years, so it's no longer like a shock you know,

690
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 5: to the system of like that people with superpowers exist.

691
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 5: These people exist, you know, and not every single person

692
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 5: is going to make the news and become an Avenger.

693
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 5: There are you know, people like mister Immortal who are like, oh,

694
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 5: I'm only going to use this for my personal life, and.

695
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 2: There's no contribution to society, you know, like there's.

696
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 5: Just there's just people around who have these powers. And

697
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 5: you know, we really wanted to focus on the lower

698
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 5: level stuff, not the global save the universe kind of thing.

699
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,760
Speaker 5: We wanted to focus on like the everyday street level

700
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 5: people who aren't making the news and are just kind

701
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:16,240
Speaker 5: of existing.

702
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and how fun was it as a process to

703
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 3: kind of get to go through and pick you know,

704
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 3: we get mister Remore here, we get a reference to

705
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 3: Baroness Blood. So I'm like, now, definitely the vampires exist

706
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 3: in the MCU. That is my head canon. But like,

707
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 3: how fun was it in the room? So you know,

708
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 3: we talked to Zig and he was talking about, you know,

709
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 3: pulling out names like the Wrecking Crew and stuff. So

710
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 3: how far is it to kind of get to dig

711
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 3: in and find those characters who fit this low ground

712
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 3: level superhero world that you were building.

713
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 2: It's it's really fun.

714
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 5: And so our writer's room, the makeup of the writer's

715
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 5: room was fifty percent like Marvel super Nerds and like

716
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 5: Zig and like zeb Wells and you know, Jackie Gales

717
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 5: and like and then the other half were just comedy

718
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 5: writers who were like, yeah, I have never touched the

719
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 5: comic book and I don't really need to unless I'm

720
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 5: being paid to do it, you know. But it's a

721
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 5: but I like, we needed that balance, you know, because

722
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 5: we can't be completely inside baseball when it comes to comics,

723
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 5: like because this is still a sitcom, you know, first

724
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 5: and foremost, So it was nice to have that mix

725
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 5: of people to kind of balance out like what is

726
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 5: going to be funny, you know, but what's also going

727
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 5: to be true to the comics. And so it was

728
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 5: really nice to have half the room be able to

729
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:36,720
Speaker 5: like start pulling from the comics, like you know, like

730
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 5: like Zig and Zeb and everybody would they already had

731
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 5: like their their kind of mental list of characters they've

732
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 5: always wanted to And our philosophy was always like the

733
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 5: lower level, like the C level, D level, like give

734
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 5: us the low rent guys, because then you have the most.

735
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 2: Freedom, you know for sure. Yeah.

736
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 5: Well also like a, you have the most like highest

737
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 5: probability that it would be available that whens like you know,

738
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 5: creating like that Marvel isn't already doing some sort of

739
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 5: like trilogy about them. But two also like you have

740
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 5: more freedom because they're not this like Precious Revere like

741
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,839
Speaker 5: have like a crazy fandom character. They're characters that people

742
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 5: are like, oh, I recognize them, that's funny that they're

743
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 5: using them, you know, or characters where they're like I

744
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 5: don't even know where they pulled that from. And then

745
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 5: you can really like kind of play around with them

746
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 5: and come up with like funny stuff for them. So,

747
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 5: you know, we pull like characters that we just thought

748
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 5: would be funny, and then the whole room would kind

749
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,879
Speaker 5: of go to work on coming up with, like what's

750
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 5: a funny reason they would be in legal trouble? Like

751
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:47,720
Speaker 5: what is specific to this character that would require a lawyer?

752
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 5: And and that's where we went from there. And that's

753
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 5: really really fun to pitch, you know, because at the

754
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 5: end of the day, you're just they're characters. Whether or

755
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 5: not they're comp of characters or sick on characters, they're

756
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 5: just characters that you're coming up with very like character

757
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 5: specific stories for.

758
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,240
Speaker 1: This seems very obvious to me, but I was wondering

759
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 1: if you might spell it out for our audience. It

760
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 1: seems what is it that makes comedy writers like yourself,

761
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 1: Jeff love no zeb So the right person to develop

762
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: and adapt these stories for TV for film?

763
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 2: I think it's that well, I think it is.

764
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,919
Speaker 5: What I loved about Marvel movies was that they're all

765
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 5: very like even the serious ones, there is the sense

766
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 5: of joy, you know, there is the sense of like

767
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 5: of this love for this.

768
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 2: Medium, and like, you.

769
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 5: Know, if you could be very reductive and say like, oh,

770
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 5: it's like for kids or whatever, but but I think

771
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 5: being able to see.

772
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 2: The way that like comics have these like strong themes

773
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,760
Speaker 2: and can tell these like very.

774
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 5: Like metaphor lateen story, you know, and kind of be

775
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 5: a reflection of of ourt of the times and.

776
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 2: Of people.

777
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 5: Being able to like take that seriously but also balance

778
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 5: that with like, okay, but it's still you know, a

779
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 5: person with superpowers or some guy who decided to dress

780
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 5: up like a.

781
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 2: Frog, you know, Like I to kind of balance that

782
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 2: and like treat it like.

783
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 5: With the right level of seriousness. Like these characters are

784
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 5: taking their lives seriously, you know, so we respect that,

785
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 5: but we also understand that it's inherently a little silly

786
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 5: and lighthearted, you know. And also the stakes on our

787
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 5: show are very low. It's not it's not like half

788
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 5: of humanity is going to die. It's like, well, is

789
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 5: this guy gonna have to pay like pay out a

790
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 5: law a settlement?

791
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 2: You know?

792
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:50,280
Speaker 3: H yeah, in that way. Actually, it kind of seems

793
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 3: wild that there hasn't been like a superhero sitcom like

794
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 3: this seems like the perfect balance. So could you talk

795
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 3: a little bit about that choice and going obviously it

796
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 3: makes so much sense for shee holp. But why was that?

797
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 3: How did you know that was the right pitch?

798
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 5: Well, I come from writing for TV comedy, so so

799
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 5: I was always going to do comedy. I just I

800
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 5: don't write dramas, you know, so it's always gonna be

801
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,320
Speaker 5: a comedy. But I think like she Hulk, of all characters,

802
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 5: is like so, I mean, the most iconic she Hulk

803
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:26,760
Speaker 5: runs are so like fun and light, you know, and funny.

804
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 2: So I think like it's that's just what's true to

805
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 2: the character.

806
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, here we go. We're gonna we're gonna hit

807
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: you now with the questions that we're pretty sure you

808
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 1: can't answer, but we're gonna try.

809
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 2: Let's see how good my perker face.

810
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: Is adamantium needle at the end.

811
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 5: Yes, now I'm saying, yes, it is.

812
00:45:53,040 --> 00:46:00,839
Speaker 1: That an adamantium needle. Uh No, okay, wow, oh interesting. Uh.

813
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 2: We're not talking about adamantium on the show at all.

814
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 3: There's no talking about it.

815
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 1: But you know, here's it. It's a guess we here

816
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: is why we guess that because of the Hulk's history.

817
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 1: Uh with Adamanteta, you know, it's always the only solution

818
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:18,320
Speaker 1: to be like, how do we turn his blood to

819
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: Hulk back at or get his blood or turn him

820
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: back into Banner. We got to hit him. What's the

821
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 1: only thing that could pierce the skin is an adam

822
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 1: antium needle and it made it made a very satisfying

823
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 1: snack dish sound, which is why we thought that.

824
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 3: Well, that's good. I mean, it's rare to get a

825
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:37,320
Speaker 3: conclusive answer, so I'm very excited about that. I'm okay,

826
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:46,439
Speaker 3: So Baroness Blood aka mister Immortal's wife potentially potentially, I mean,

827
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 3: so Baroness Cromwell is his ex wife? Is that? Does

828
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 3: that mean? Was he married to a vampire? I feel

829
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 3: like it would make sense because he's immortal. But was

830
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 3: that or was that just like a fun name poll.

831
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 2: That was just a fun name talk.

832
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 5: We don't know which we don't know who this person

833
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 5: is that he was married to.

834
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 1: Okay, Obviously you've had a lot of fun over this

835
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 1: season with like names that are one letter off from

836
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 1: names that we recognize.

837
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 3: Donnie Blaze.

838
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 1: Donny Blaze, for instance, is a fantastic icon. And then

839
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 1: at the end of this episode, you know, when we

840
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:28,959
Speaker 1: see that that secret lab where they're working to collect

841
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: gens blood, we see it a chat on a screen,

842
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: a computer message from someone named Hulk King, which seems

843
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: like very specifically one letter off from Hulk Hulkling. Is

844
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: that another Donny Blaze, Johnny Blaze Hulk King hulk Ling?

845
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: Is that another one of those Donny Blaze situations?

846
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 5: What I will say is you have to think about

847
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 5: the world of the show as this is a world

848
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:08,280
Speaker 5: where people are aware of all these kind of superheroes.

849
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 2: Beings, villains, aliens.

850
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 5: Everyone's aware that these types of people exist, you know,

851
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 5: so you have to think, like there are people in

852
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 5: this world who are like our world fans, like you know,

853
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 5: people who are into like fan fiction, people who are

854
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 5: modeling themselves after these people. You know, people who know

855
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 5: like the name Hulk and are you know, coming up

856
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 5: with like coming up with just a screen name that

857
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 5: is a reflection of what.

858
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 2: They're interested in and who they're interested in.

859
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 3: Okay, this is less of a this is less of

860
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,399
Speaker 3: a spoiler question, but links to the hul King women.

861
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,879
Speaker 3: Could you talk a little bit about introducing the intelligence

862
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 3: here is this kind of like MRA website and how

863
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,800
Speaker 3: that plays into how well you guys kind of preemptively

864
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 3: joke about what you knew the response to the show

865
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 3: would be.

866
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think it just we I mean,

867
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 5: we had our writers room in twenty We started our

868
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,360
Speaker 5: writers room in twenty nineteen. That's how long ago we,

869
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 5: you know, we started writing this show. So I mean

870
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 5: it truly preempts a lot of the stuff because we knew.

871
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it just goes to.

872
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 5: Show how completely unoriginal and tired and boring.

873
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 2: Actually, guys are you know that three years.

874
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 5: Ago we could predict like exactly what they weren't gonna say,

875
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 5: like fucking get a new song man. And it's just

876
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 5: I mean, it's it's funny, but it's also sady that

877
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 5: like it's so accurate.

878
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 2: And also that it is so common and so.

879
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 5: Predictable at that we could this accurately like just pull

880
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:52,280
Speaker 5: it out, you know, because it's not it's not really

881
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 5: it is specific to the show, but it also isn't

882
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 5: like that type of like like hate and like stupidity

883
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,479
Speaker 5: is not specific to this show. Only you know, it's

884
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 5: so prevalent that that's why we were able to just

885
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 5: know exactly, you know. So it was very funny when

886
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 5: the show premiered seeing all the responses where I was like,

887
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 5: you just wait till the third episode comes back, because

888
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 5: because the little troll inside of me was also giggling.

889
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 1: And baby, well, Jessica, this has been a fantastic conversation.

890
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us, Thanks for having me.

891
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 2: This is great.

892
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 3: That was such a joy. Thank you.

893
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 1: Folks were stepping out of the air lock onto the

894
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: streets of Ferrick's beautiful company town Ferrix for the first

895
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: three episodes of and Or, written by Tony Gilroy, directed

896
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 1: by Toby Haynes. Again, we just want to touch on

897
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: this these episodes because we want to give everybody time

898
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: to process them and to really digest them, and then

899
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about it regularly as the series progresses.

900
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: But first off, Rosie, what are your thoughts?

901
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 3: So, I thought it is very beautiful. I'm happy to

902
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 3: I love to see die go back. You know, we're

903
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 3: big fans of Rogue One on this show.

904
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 1: Huge fans, such huge fans of Rogue One.

905
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 3: So yeah, I love the landscape. I love that it's

906
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 3: not a nostalgia fueled show. I think like we've all

907
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 3: talked about this. People in the discord have been talking

908
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 3: about this. This is a show that is almost has

909
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 3: a similarity to Lord of the Rings in that the

910
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 3: first episode maybe a little bit homework heavy, a little

911
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 3: bit introductory heavy, but you get those three episodes so

912
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,359
Speaker 3: by the end you've really kind of dived in. So yeah,

913
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 3: I thought it was like a good show. I'm a

914
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 3: big fan of Tony Gilroy, who they bring in to

915
00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 3: save everything, so I'm really happy to see him getting

916
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 3: to have this space to do this. I do have

917
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 3: some moments that like bumped me though, so that's how

918
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 3: I'm excited to talk to you about it.

919
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 1: So I too, I think it looks absolutely like jaw

920
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: dropping stunning. Actually, like the volume is doing incredible or

921
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: clearly I think they shot on location somewhere. It looks amazing.

922
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: I you know, Rogue One is probably my favorite Star

923
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,439
Speaker 1: Wars movie, and I think the vibe of Rogue One,

924
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: which is which kind of recontextualized the part of the

925
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 1: impact of the original Star Wars as a as a

926
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:45,240
Speaker 1: flipped allegory to the Vietnam War, you know, in which

927
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 1: you know, scrappy rebels take on this superpower with weapons

928
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 1: of mass destruction and actually defeat it. Rogue One took

929
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: that and brought it into the twenty first century with

930
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 1: an allegory that is senttually says that acknowledged the power

931
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 1: of the kind of like freedom fighter narrative. Yeah you

932
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 1: had you had these You had these rebels fighting to

933
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: defend a holy city with rare natural resources that were

934
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 1: being exploited by a superpower. You know, it's like this, Uh,

935
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 1: it's the grievances of the Middle East with regards to

936
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: the United States as empire, but uh mixed up and

937
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 1: put back uh, you know, and and digested back and

938
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: given back to us as a Star Wars story. I

939
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 1: think that was part of like what really gave it

940
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:48,320
Speaker 1: its power. And I think and Or is similarly continuing

941
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 1: to do that same thing, which is taking really really

942
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 1: provocative ideas and saying, Okay, at what level does violent

943
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: resistance to corporate power become morally acceptable? At what point

944
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:14,280
Speaker 1: does violent resistance to the security state become, while clearly illegal,

945
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: morally acceptable. At what point does the destruction of the

946
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 1: environment warrant a morally potentially violent response.

947
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 5: Uh?

948
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: And those ideas are really really, really just very very

949
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 1: interesting and kind of like radical to explore in the

950
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:40,359
Speaker 1: contexts right now. And I think that part of it

951
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: has me absolutely hooked. Here is where is the thing

952
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 1: that bumps me as well? I do bump on certain things.

953
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:52,839
Speaker 1: One and this is all with the caveat that we

954
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 1: need more contacts that I need to see where this

955
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 1: is going.

956
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:58,280
Speaker 3: You know, and is twelve episodes long, so we're literally

957
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 3: a core of the way through the show. There is

958
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 3: a lot that we can still discover, but we both

959
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 3: definitely got caught on a couple of the same things.

960
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 1: The kind of like reframing of and then a story

961
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:21,759
Speaker 1: about indigenous people fighting against a technological colonial foe made

962
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 1: me feel a little bit weird that being Diego's backstory,

963
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:28,359
Speaker 1: just not weird in that the idea of doing it,

964
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 1: but the way they presented it makes me maybe like

965
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:37,399
Speaker 1: tad uneasy if I don't know where it's going at

966
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 1: this point, I'm like, it's definitely something. I'm like, hmm,

967
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 1: I wonder where this is going, because this is either

968
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 1: like again another super super radical theme in detail in

969
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 1: the context of a Star Wars show, or maybe a

970
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 1: little bit of a miss.

971
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:59,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally agree. I feel like I love to

972
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 3: see We're living in an age right now where there's

973
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 3: finally we're getting a lot of really brilliant like indigenous

974
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 3: storytelling in a mainstream, accessible space. The storytelling has always

975
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 3: been there, but now it's getting a platform. Whether it's

976
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 3: like you know, Reservation Dogs, Blood Quantum like one of

977
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 3: my favorite movies from the last few years, there's a

978
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 3: lot of great stuff being made saying that, I too wonder.

979
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 3: I love the notion of an indigenous exploring an indigenous

980
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 3: culture in Star Wars. That's incredible. It fits with me too.

981
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 3: I personally, my first feeling about it was like this

982
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 3: could have been the prequel to Just See, so we

983
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,399
Speaker 3: could have spent time there and got to know them,

984
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 3: and it wasn't so much of just kind of flashback

985
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:50,959
Speaker 3: to trauma, which is a lot of what we're getting

986
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 3: right now. So I'm I'm interested in that. You know

987
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 3: what I feel like in a post Wakandan world, Let's

988
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 3: say I think at fantasy and sci fi and ideas

989
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 3: of indigenous populations in sci fi and fantasy, I feel

990
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 3: like I want to see where they're going with this

991
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:14,719
Speaker 3: idea of like nature versus technology, because I feel like

992
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 3: in the Star Wars world, that indigenous culture could have

993
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 3: been like a a very highly it could have been

994
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 3: represented differently in a way that embraces both nature and

995
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 3: sci fi. That would have felt maybe a little bit

996
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 3: less simplistic.

997
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 1: Really, the main thing for me is the decision to

998
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 1: not have us understand what they are saying.

999
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 3: Yes, that's the biggest.

1000
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 1: It felt like an unnecessary othering to you to like,

1001
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 1: you know, for lack of a better, uh, you know,

1002
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 1: more subtle phrase of a people that doesn't really occur

1003
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 1: in Star Wars usually. Usually it's like, especially if this

1004
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 1: is like the main character, you want us to empathize

1005
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 1: and understand what a particular ethnicity or a people, or

1006
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 1: a race, or an alien group or or androids are saying.

1007
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 1: And you want to And I guess you could say, well,

1008
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 1: they don't subtitle the droids, but people translate what they're

1009
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 1: saying by telling me they translate it right back.

1010
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 3: I will also say it's very different than say, I remember,

1011
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 3: you know, when West Side Story came out, the Steven

1012
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 3: Spielberg one, there's a lot of unsubtitled Spanish in that,

1013
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 3: and and I thought that that's actually really interesting and

1014
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 3: cool because you're basically allowing Spanish speakers to experience part

1015
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 3: of the film that non Spanish speakers can't, and that

1016
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 3: is an interesting subversion of how English speaking is usually

1017
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 3: non subtitled. But this is a I just double checked

1018
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 3: because I wanted to be sure. But this is a

1019
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 3: made up language. It's Canari, So I don't in that

1020
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 3: way understand why that does.

1021
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 1: I want to see where it's going. And then the

1022
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:12,919
Speaker 1: other thing, because again I think the idea, again, as

1023
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 1: you said, presenting an indigenous people through the lens of

1024
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 1: Star Wars and exploring their culture, I think is there's

1025
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 1: nothing inherently weird or wrong about that. In fact, that's

1026
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 1: fascinating and an idea I'd love to dive into. I

1027
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 1: also think it's really fascinating and radical to explore the

1028
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 1: idea of what an indigenous people could do to defend

1029
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 1: themselves that would be morally right considering the encroachment on

1030
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 1: their spaces, which is clearly an idea that this show

1031
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 1: is exploring. When when young and Or comes to the

1032
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 1: edge of that great mining pit and sees what's being

1033
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 1: done to his planet, there's an anger and a defiance

1034
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 1: that flashes in his eyes and it's the same anger

1035
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 1: and defiance that flashes in his eyes as an older

1036
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: man throughout the episodes that we see. And I think

1037
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 1: it draws a through line there of this idea of

1038
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 1: how much And he says, you know, no one would

1039
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 1: expect a person like me to be the one who

1040
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 1: gets paraphrasing now the thing he says in the trailer

1041
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:21,479
Speaker 1: in other places, But I think that there's that through

1042
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 1: line there of how much does the does people have

1043
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: to put up with before it's okay for them to

1044
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 1: fight back? And I think that's clearly an idea that

1045
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 1: this show is presenting. And it's a really interesting idea

1046
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: that said.

1047
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 3: I just want to jump on that just quick because

1048
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:42,960
Speaker 3: I know the next thing I totally agree with you.

1049
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 3: I totally agree with you. I just the other thing

1050
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 3: that kind of gets to me a little bit about it, yeah,

1051
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 3: is like I love that because I love radical ideas

1052
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 3: of struggle. The sad thing is in this case is like,

1053
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 3: wouldn't it have been? I know it doesn't work because

1054
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 3: we have to have and Cassie and have some kind

1055
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 3: of loss, but like, didn't we imagine a world where

1056
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 3: and indigenous people fought back in like one because it's

1057
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 3: a utopian Star Wars style space where you're imagining it. Also,

1058
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 3: like the other thing that I find interesting in the context,

1059
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 3: and like we said, I'm very interested to see where

1060
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 3: it goes because this could all be very intentional and

1061
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:21,040
Speaker 3: be kind of expanded on or explored or excavated as

1062
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:23,479
Speaker 3: we go through. But also, like you know, who never

1063
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 3: worried at any point about where the killing people was

1064
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 3: right in Star Wars, Like every white person who's ever

1065
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 3: in Star Wars who just blows stuff up and kills

1066
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 3: people and is seen as a hero. So I just

1067
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 3: I wonder I want to see that moral I want

1068
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 3: to know why the moral weight is so heavy on

1069
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 3: Cassian because the things that he is fighting against are

1070
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 3: are arguably so much more obviously deserving of rebellion or revolution.

1071
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:55,919
Speaker 3: But again, that could definitely be something that we see

1072
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 3: expanded on as the show goes forward. There are a

1073
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:01,919
Speaker 3: lot of points here where if these moments that we're

1074
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 3: talking about and are about to talk about another one

1075
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 3: are intentional and get explored and extrapolated on, and that

1076
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 3: could be a really really radical space in the Star

1077
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:20,479
Speaker 3: Wars universe, or like you know, you were saying, if

1078
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 3: not then it could be there's a chance that could

1079
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 3: end up being like a bit of a missed opportunity.

1080
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:27,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I think the thing that bumped me

1081
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 1: really the hardest is at the end of the and again,

1082
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 1: this could be really interesting and I'm holding out. I

1083
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 1: can't wait to see more, to see how this, you know,

1084
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 1: reframes the context. Potentially Marva, who you know, has followed

1085
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 1: this ship that crashed on Knari, is scavenging whatever kind

1086
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 1: of tech and different stuff that they have, and they

1087
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 1: want to get out before the republic answers. And they

1088
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 1: come across this young indigenous person who is Cassie and

1089
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 1: or young Cassian and or doesn't have that name yet,

1090
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 1: of course, and they're concerned that, you know, the Republic's

1091
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:11,840
Speaker 1: going to show up and everybody's going to be potentially

1092
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: facing you know, real danger that could end up with

1093
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 1: the extinction of this tribe. I guess is with their concern,

1094
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 1: and so Marva kidnaps, you know, like let's just say

1095
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 1: what it is, kidnaps Cassian and takes him away on

1096
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:38,560
Speaker 1: her spaceship. And so my question is this is are

1097
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:45,480
Speaker 1: we framing that as this like unambiguously good rescue or

1098
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:50,800
Speaker 1: is there necessary, in my mind necessary ambiguity to this action,

1099
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 1: Because while I don't doubt that Marva thinks I'm saving

1100
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 1: this young man's life, what is functionally happening is you

1101
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:02,240
Speaker 1: are kidnapping him, making them away from his tribe, from

1102
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,040
Speaker 1: his people, from his culture, from his entire world because

1103
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:06,880
Speaker 1: you're concerned that he's in danger and that may or

1104
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 1: may not be true. But also like, that's not your role.

1105
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:12,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the way that you just framed that, that's

1106
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 3: not your responsibility, I think it's very clear fingers crossed.

1107
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 3: That seems to be a even just in the way

1108
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 3: you frame it, the way you speak, right, it seems

1109
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 3: like the right route to go is to use that

1110
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 3: as an analogous conversation about the times that that has

1111
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 3: happened in real life, but kidnapping of Indigenous children, of

1112
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:42,120
Speaker 3: children from the global community, the global majority, and seeing

1113
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 3: and having that as like we're doing something good and

1114
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 3: then we know that that is obviously historically something that

1115
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 3: has become very horrific and just a way of exploiting

1116
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 3: children and harming children. So it feels to me like

1117
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 3: I don't think Star Wars is going to be like, oh,

1118
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:00,680
Speaker 3: Marv is you know, an evil person. But I do

1119
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 3: think that could definitely be that should be adept and

1120
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 3: a conversation between Marva and between Cassian about the realities

1121
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:14,680
Speaker 3: of what she did and how that shifted the the

1122
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 3: scope of his life and the way that his life

1123
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 3: turned out.

1124
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's definitely you know, again, he may very

1125
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 1: well be in danger. You know, we're seeing aside through

1126
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:29,080
Speaker 1: their eyes, through Marv's eyes, of the Republic that is,

1127
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:38,120
Speaker 1: you know, less good than we're probably used to, and

1128
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:45,440
Speaker 1: certainly more exploitive of cultures and planets than aren't technologically

1129
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 1: advanced or part of the Republic large. But again, she

1130
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 1: just like snatches them up without any kind of just

1131
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 1: this would this be okay, who are your people? Do

1132
01:05:57,080 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 1: you have family here? Who is your family here? And

1133
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:05,440
Speaker 1: kidnaps them from what is essentially a utopian planet. I mean,

1134
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:07,480
Speaker 1: this is another tripe. This is an age old trope,

1135
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 1: right of the of the the people who are less

1136
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 1: technologically advanced live in this more egalitarian, just perfect society.

1137
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, like the peaceful And I that's another thing where

1138
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:28,240
Speaker 3: I wonder if there was a technojungle twist or some

1139
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 3: kind of exploration that could have maybe potentially or might

1140
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 3: still happen. We've only seen certain parts. It's been in flashbacks,

1141
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 3: so we might learn that there is more to it.

1142
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 3: But like you said, that segment to me definitely had

1143
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:48,520
Speaker 3: the feeling of that age old trope. It didn't necessarily

1144
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 3: feel like it was adding anything to because let's be real,

1145
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:57,040
Speaker 3: I saw, like a lot of people have said this,

1146
01:06:57,120 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 3: but like, how many indigenous cultures have we seen destroyed

1147
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:02,120
Speaker 3: in Star Wars? So many?

1148
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 1: Is that many? It's not the first one.

1149
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:07,440
Speaker 3: It's not the first one, And it's like so like,

1150
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:12,960
Speaker 3: yes that my ewoks, Like, is is that necessarily like

1151
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:14,920
Speaker 3: a new story that needs to be told in the

1152
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 3: Stars universe? Hopefully as Cassian because this is a very

1153
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 3: slow burned show as well, So hopefully as it moves forward,

1154
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 3: we're going to get to see that that conversation change.

1155
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 3: But I would like to know about not subtitling the Canari.

1156
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 3: The more I think about it, the more I'm like,

1157
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 3: is is there is that going to change? Is that?

1158
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:45,160
Speaker 3: I think on the on our version there was no captions,

1159
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:49,200
Speaker 3: but I think on the final version it says speaking Canari.

1160
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:53,800
Speaker 1: Heure's the other thing that I think makes it an

1161
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 1: interesting choice. To me, these are flashbacks. How are we

1162
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 1: getting here right? We're getting the presentation is these are

1163
01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 1: Cassian's reminiscences, and and by choice, they are not allowing

1164
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 1: us that perspective that he has where he understands what

1165
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 1: these people are saying. They're not letting us in there.

1166
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:22,600
Speaker 1: So even you know, from that perspective of a storytelling

1167
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 1: choice of a flashback, from the perspective of a character,

1168
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 1: it's it's a little puzzling to me. That's I think

1169
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 1: really a great people might listen to this conversation and

1170
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 1: be like they didn't like it. I actually love that

1171
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:39,679
Speaker 1: like and here, and the fact that we are able

1172
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 1: to have these really like these big conversations about big

1173
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:46,640
Speaker 1: ideas through the context of Star Wars is at a

1174
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:51,479
Speaker 1: point one why I think this is certainly the most

1175
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 1: interesting to discuss right now in terms of like ideas

1176
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:57,080
Speaker 1: and themes and ideas about morality and ideas about like

1177
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:04,120
Speaker 1: you know, about struggle period. Having those conversations through this

1178
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 1: show it is really fascinating because again, this is a

1179
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:12,200
Speaker 1: show that is straight up like okay if it it

1180
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 1: presents this idea to you and says that this is

1181
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:22,400
Speaker 1: acceptable if the powers of policing fuse with corporate interest

1182
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:28,120
Speaker 1: sounds familiar. It is it is okay to resist that violently.

1183
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:31,280
Speaker 1: That's a kind of radical idea to put forward. And

1184
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:33,879
Speaker 1: it's putting forward and putting it forward in the context

1185
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 1: of a Star Wars show, and I think that's a

1186
01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:39,920
Speaker 1: that's like pretty amazing.

1187
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:41,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, And also as well, I think that something that

1188
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 3: you bring up that's really great. There is how this

1189
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:46,880
Speaker 3: carries on the tradition of Star Wars as like a

1190
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:51,720
Speaker 3: radical analogy install Wars, like, look, we know what the

1191
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:54,680
Speaker 3: empire is based on. In Star Wars, it's based on Nazis.

1192
01:09:54,840 --> 01:10:00,880
Speaker 3: It's a response to fascistic dictatorships are not afraid to

1193
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:03,920
Speaker 3: kill and exploit. And the story there was you need

1194
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 3: to stand up against those. Those must be stopped and

1195
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter if there's only one of you who

1196
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:11,439
Speaker 3: is standing up. You can make a difference because you

1197
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 3: will find other people. So now you know that movie

1198
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:17,320
Speaker 3: came out in the late seventies, the original Star Wars,

1199
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 3: Like now in twenty twenty two, to have a show

1200
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:23,920
Speaker 3: that's like, by the way, if the police is this

1201
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 3: the Nazis, Yeah, and also saying like we're going to

1202
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:31,000
Speaker 3: make it more specific. If the police and evil corporations

1203
01:10:31,400 --> 01:10:35,479
Speaker 3: are destroying your life and your livelihood and your towns,

1204
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:38,400
Speaker 3: it's actually okay to not be okay with that and

1205
01:10:38,439 --> 01:10:41,439
Speaker 3: to want to resist it. That is a very cool

1206
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:48,760
Speaker 3: reconsideration and updating and making the message far more specific

1207
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:51,719
Speaker 3: than just like the real bad guy.

1208
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 1: And I love. I mean there's a real class struggle

1209
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 1: aspect to this too, like the fact that we don't

1210
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:05,360
Speaker 1: have royalty royalty lords, you know, sith lords like running

1211
01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:09,360
Speaker 1: around making the choices. This is the people who are

1212
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:12,200
Speaker 1: closer to the earth, who are working the way you know,

1213
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:16,000
Speaker 1: Luthen and Cassie and have that conversation, you know, when

1214
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:19,160
Speaker 1: they're meaning for the first time potentially and I have

1215
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:23,879
Speaker 1: the handoff of the device of the of the navigation

1216
01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 1: system and they kind of in a roundabout way start

1217
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:33,759
Speaker 1: talking about the empire, and Lutheran's like, yeah, they're they're arrogant,

1218
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:36,880
Speaker 1: aren't they, Like they don't understand how mad we are

1219
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:40,479
Speaker 1: at them. Yeah, they they just they're fat and happy

1220
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:44,120
Speaker 1: and they and they're just using their power to push

1221
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:49,000
Speaker 1: everyone around, Like they don't understand like what they're doing,

1222
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 1: they don't understand the anger they're engendering. That was a

1223
01:11:54,280 --> 01:11:57,240
Speaker 1: that felt like, I really, that's an amazing thing to

1224
01:11:57,680 --> 01:12:02,680
Speaker 1: watch happen, To watch this like rebellion start to coalesce,

1225
01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:08,479
Speaker 1: not at the highest levels but the grassroots. Yeah, anger

1226
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:12,880
Speaker 1: at the empire that actually the leadership then harnessed in

1227
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:14,200
Speaker 1: order to fight their war.

1228
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:18,519
Speaker 3: It's what makes Rogue one so special is you literally

1229
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:23,040
Speaker 3: watch a group of marginalized people, predominantly people of color

1230
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:31,040
Speaker 3: die in order to spark the rebellion in a very

1231
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 3: literal sense where they need. Without them, you would never

1232
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 3: have the blueprints that allowed the rest of the Star

1233
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:39,439
Speaker 3: Wars franchise to happen. So everybody dies, all these people

1234
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:41,639
Speaker 3: of color die, these people from all over the planet,

1235
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:44,240
Speaker 3: from all different places, all over the galaxy, and then

1236
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:50,000
Speaker 3: at the end, Princess Leia of Space Royal has the blueprints.

1237
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:53,280
Speaker 3: You know. That's what's so radical about roguan is like

1238
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 3: who dies so that the people in charge can fight

1239
01:12:58,280 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 3: the war and win the war?

1240
01:12:59,600 --> 01:12:59,760
Speaker 5: Right?

1241
01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:02,960
Speaker 3: And that's why I think is very interesting with Cassian

1242
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:04,920
Speaker 3: is like we're coming at it from this viewpoint of

1243
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:08,000
Speaker 3: like we want this to be the best version of

1244
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 3: this story that makes the most of the space that

1245
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:15,080
Speaker 3: it's created because Rogue one really was this really radical space,

1246
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:19,680
Speaker 3: and it's kind of it's very interesting to see that

1247
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:23,519
Speaker 3: explored here, especially the notion of a of a corporate town,

1248
01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:26,840
Speaker 3: you know, something a business town, which is something that

1249
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:30,400
Speaker 3: you know, we see in R Again, it's very relevant

1250
01:13:30,479 --> 01:13:31,479
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two.

1251
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:34,960
Speaker 1: There's also I mean, they gave Cassian a real kind

1252
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:38,880
Speaker 1: of like con Solo when he shoots those two PM employees,

1253
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:43,000
Speaker 1: there's a look that flashes across his face and it's

1254
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:48,920
Speaker 1: definitely not regret that he just killed two people. It's fuck,

1255
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:52,040
Speaker 1: now I gotta deal with this, Yeah, you know, and.

1256
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:54,200
Speaker 2: That is a.

1257
01:13:56,439 --> 01:13:59,720
Speaker 1: I love that they gave him that kind of characteristic.

1258
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:02,439
Speaker 1: That's the kind of character we're dealing with. Yeah, Han

1259
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:07,439
Speaker 1: Solo never Han Solo pulled the trigger on Grito. Oh

1260
01:14:07,479 --> 01:14:10,960
Speaker 1: yeah no never first, never thought about it again.

1261
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 3: Also, yeah, he just did that because he owed him

1262
01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:16,280
Speaker 3: some money too, Like it wasn't even a matter of survival. Yes,

1263
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:18,679
Speaker 3: So okay, So something I found really interesting as well,

1264
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:22,400
Speaker 3: Like in that context, Like the one thing that really

1265
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:26,080
Speaker 3: hooked me was they do that great thing, as so

1266
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:31,080
Speaker 3: many storytellers do, where there's a moment that everything hinges

1267
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:38,519
Speaker 3: on and in this it is the PM, you know,

1268
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:42,360
Speaker 3: the kind of head of PM. There's a young guy,

1269
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:46,320
Speaker 3: Cyril Khan. Again, I'll be interested to see where they

1270
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:48,160
Speaker 3: go with that. I feel like he was queer coded

1271
01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 3: and he is a villain, so you know, we'll see

1272
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:52,880
Speaker 3: where that leads. But what I found was really interesting

1273
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:56,360
Speaker 3: is his boss, who is obviously corrupt and is in

1274
01:14:56,400 --> 01:14:59,679
Speaker 3: this way, he was just like, just let it go, man.

1275
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 3: They weren't meant to be there. They got in the

1276
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:04,400
Speaker 3: wrong fight with the wrong person, and I was like,

1277
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:08,200
Speaker 3: wow that. I just thought that was such an interesting

1278
01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:12,960
Speaker 3: moment where there's a different version of this story where

1279
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:16,400
Speaker 3: they never look for Cassie and it never leads down

1280
01:15:16,439 --> 01:15:21,280
Speaker 3: that way. And but there's this one villainous guy who,

1281
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:23,559
Speaker 3: for some reason that we're still kind of waiting to

1282
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:29,320
Speaker 3: find out, has this fervent hatred of what happens and

1283
01:15:29,400 --> 01:15:33,559
Speaker 3: needs to solve the crime, you know, And I'm interested

1284
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:35,439
Speaker 3: to see where that goes. But I really thought that

1285
01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:37,920
Speaker 3: was one of the most interesting choices was when the

1286
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:41,240
Speaker 3: kind of corrupt boss of PM was or the security

1287
01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:44,680
Speaker 3: kind of corpos was like, you know what, they're in

1288
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 3: the wrong place at the wrong time, Like sorry, to

1289
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:49,040
Speaker 3: those men like you shouldn't. I thought that was a

1290
01:15:49,080 --> 01:15:53,400
Speaker 3: really interesting character point that feels much again, much more

1291
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:57,639
Speaker 3: grounded in reality than this idea of the well put

1292
01:15:57,680 --> 01:16:01,000
Speaker 3: together empire who will take down anyone who dares to

1293
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:06,599
Speaker 3: question them. This is real people in the beginnings of

1294
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:11,080
Speaker 3: what kind of working in the groundwork, this depressing grunt

1295
01:16:11,160 --> 01:16:15,240
Speaker 3: work of this kind of fascistic empire is very interesting.

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01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:18,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a show that I'm super excited about

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01:16:18,400 --> 01:16:20,960
Speaker 1: continuing to talk about because the ideas here are just

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01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:26,439
Speaker 1: so so huge. Big thank you to Jessica Goal for

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01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:29,840
Speaker 1: joining us, and of course a big thank you for

1300
01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:34,640
Speaker 1: Rosie Night for co hosting X ray Vision Today. Rosie

1301
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:36,559
Speaker 1: more plugs, what have you two plug?

1302
01:16:37,160 --> 01:16:41,880
Speaker 3: You can find me Rosie Marx on Instagram and letterbox.

1303
01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:44,040
Speaker 3: That's also in the show notes. You can also find

1304
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:46,400
Speaker 3: my articles and stuff like that in the show notes.

1305
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:48,880
Speaker 3: I will hopefully I have some more exciting comic book

1306
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:52,200
Speaker 3: news coming soon, and obviously you can always hear me

1307
01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:53,479
Speaker 3: here with you.

1308
01:16:56,960 --> 01:17:00,040
Speaker 1: Catch the next episode on September thirtieth, and subscribe to

1309
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 1: the show on YouTube. Please follow us on at XRV

1310
01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:06,360
Speaker 1: pod on Twitter, and don't forget in the show notes

1311
01:17:06,479 --> 01:17:08,519
Speaker 1: is our link to the discord. Check out the discord.

1312
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:11,519
Speaker 1: Come hang out with us, Come hang out with the community.

1313
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:16,759
Speaker 1: Lots of friendly, generous and really smart people there. Rosie

1314
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 1: and I are active there all the time. Don't forget

1315
01:17:20,160 --> 01:17:23,360
Speaker 1: Send your House to the Dragon questions to ask Theemaster

1316
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:27,240
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. And if you want to hear

1317
01:17:27,320 --> 01:17:29,840
Speaker 1: our full conversation this week on House of the Dragon

1318
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:33,840
Speaker 1: and Rings a Power check out. The first episode should

1319
01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:36,840
Speaker 1: be in your feed, which we have already released. If

1320
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:38,800
Speaker 1: you're listening to this one, that one is out as well.

1321
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:41,679
Speaker 1: We want your five star reviews. Give us those five

1322
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:44,920
Speaker 1: star ratings on your podcast platform of choice. Here's a

1323
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:49,720
Speaker 1: great one from smirtalk. Jason Concepcian and Rosie Night are

1324
01:17:49,720 --> 01:17:53,280
Speaker 1: crushing it. Love the energy. This podcast gives super fun

1325
01:17:53,280 --> 01:17:56,679
Speaker 1: commentary on the industry and unique insights and fantastic reviews

1326
01:17:56,680 --> 01:17:59,360
Speaker 1: reactions on the latest your culture shows and movies. Thank

1327
01:17:59,400 --> 01:18:02,360
Speaker 1: you so much, smurtle K, Thank you, how nice.

1328
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:02,800
Speaker 5: Thank you.

1329
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:05,040
Speaker 1: X ray Vision is a Crooked Media production of the

1330
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:06,800
Speaker 1: show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. The

1331
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:09,720
Speaker 1: show is executive produced by myself and Sandy Garhard are

1332
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:13,800
Speaker 1: editing and sound Designers by Vascillis Fatopoulos, Dilon Villanueva and

1333
01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:17,120
Speaker 1: Matt De Group provide video production support. Alex Rellaford handle

1334
01:18:17,160 --> 01:18:20,559
Speaker 1: social media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for theme music. See

1335
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:24,559
Speaker 1: you next time, Everybody,