WEBVTT - Ignorance is Bliss 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:06.000 Welcome to stuff to blow your mind from how stuff 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:14.080 Works dot com. Hey, he wasn't as stuffable your mind. 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:16.680 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas Juan 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:18.560 I'm gonna put you in a scenario here and asked 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:23.200 to the listeners put themselves in the same scenario. Imagine 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:29.680 a stranger appears before you call Finn stranger like very 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:35.920 thin and dressed and say, let's say dark dark robe. Okay, 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:39.479 this isn't sounding so great. Well well wait wait till 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.120 wait to hear this. This fell out because he makes 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:44.720 an offer this if you would like, and this is 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:48.400 purely optional, I will tell you to the day, to 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:51.760 the minute, even when you will die. I have this 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:55.960 information here in my in my file, and I will 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:58.440 share this information with you. All you have to do 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:01.760 is ask would you would you would you like to know? 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:05.080 Would you would you want this date and this time 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:08.959 to mark in your calendar? Absolutely not? No, No, I 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.440 mean that's the kind of mystery you want to remain 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:13.640 a mystery? Right? Do you think I want to obsess 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:15.919 on that for the rest of my life every single moment? 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:19.200 Well that's one argument. Yeah, Robert, do you think I 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:23.480 really want to well, yeah, I mean to know exactly 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:25.920 when you're gonna die. It would it would be helpful 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:27.880 in some ways, right, You know, if you've been putting 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:31.600 on planning, state planning, um, if there are certain projects 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:34.240 you've been putting off, it might be nice to know 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:37.520 you actually have time enough to complete them, and or 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:40.160 if you should should maybe shoot for instead of writing 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.120 the Great American novel, maybe you would just try and 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:44.720 write the Great American short story or the Great American 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:49.080 haiku h depending on what the forecast is, or yeah, 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:51.480 a little fly fiction. Yeah. But on the other hand, 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:53.760 you would conceive it would be then be living your 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:57.920 life in fear, ticking down ever closer to that moment 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:01.920 when this same individual in the dark robes and the 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:07.320 deathly thin hands might reappear and come to collect. Yeah. 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:10.200 You might even say that you're so preoccupied with this 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:13.000 inevitability that now has a date on it, that you 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:15.959 could do nothing but think about it. So any sort 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:18.360 of efforts at writing a haiku or anything else would 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:20.919 be completely hamstrung. Yeah, you would just have that date 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:24.079 taking in your mind. You just every and even say 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:28.840 it's say it's did you like two thousand eight. You 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:32.200 know that's nice, that's nicely far out. Yeah that that 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:34.040 even then you would hear you'd hear about two thousand 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:36.440 and would it would it would just mess you up? 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:38.160 Or even just to hear do you like thirteenth every 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:41.239 time it comes around? So I can see the value 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:45.919 and not hearing the thin man out on this particular case. Yeah. Well, 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:48.799 and this plays into the idea of why we we 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:52.200 exercise a kind of version of this in the form 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:57.359 of what's been called the Ostrich effect um. Also, ignorance 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:00.600 is bliss because there are just some things we don't 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:02.840 want to face, and its human nature all of us. 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:04.840 Do us do this even if you think that, like 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:09.280 you're the most self aware, self actualized person on the earth, 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.040 there is something that you're avoiding, right, I mean, when 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.160 it comes to our awareness of the world, all of 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:17.799 us live inside of a carefully maintained and constructed worldview. 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:21.200 And that worldview is not going to in the same 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:23.959 way that you'll have a video game world that that 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.680 may incorporate some aspects of reality and some aspects of 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:30.680 actual physics, but ignore other real life rules. You know, 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:33.440 like the character jumps off a building and he'll still 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:37.040 die as one would. But but maybe he can run 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:39.640 exceedingly fast without you know, running out of steam. That 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.200 kind of think all of us create this worldview, maintain 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:45.560 this worldview that is going to ignore certain risks, incorporate 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:51.160 some other risks, totally exaggerate other risks, and uh and 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:54.840 and underplay still other risks to your everyday life. Yeah, 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:56.960 even if that means that you could have some really 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:00.240 crappy outcomes, say to your health as a result. We'll 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:03.160 talk about that in a bit. But hey, what if 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:06.600 what if the Finnman could give you that date. I'm 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:08.960 we've played with that idea of just you know, this 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:14.360 apparition showing up. But turns out that researchers, scientists have 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:17.240 actually come up with an idea that is a kind 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.400 of death test. Yeah. Yeah, in this case that it 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:25.520 wouldn't be a medieval embodiment of death that would be 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:28.080 showing up and and offering you the information. It might 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:30.320 be a little contraction that you wear on your wrist. 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:35.200 Physicist at the United Kingdoms Lancaster University developed this test, 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:40.640 which uses painless lasers to analyze endothelial cells. Uh. These 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:43.039 are the cells that lying blood vessels under the skin 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:47.680 and are a possible health indicator. So the basically this 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:51.039 laser analysis would look at the state of these cells 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:54.480 and would be able to extrapolate what your general health 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:57.760 is right now and how much time you have. Now. 0:04:58.400 --> 0:04:59.800 This is not a watch you can pick up that 0:04:59.880 --> 0:05:02.480 your local store. This technology is not ready to roll out, 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:05.840 but it's sort of a road sign um on the 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:09.040 highway to a possible future in which we see more 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:13.880 and more of wearable technology, implanted technology which gives us 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:18.080 some measure of real time information about the state of 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:20.760 our health. Yeah, here's another example of it, and this 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:24.280 comes from the Institute for Molecular Medicine in Finland, and 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:27.320 they would look at the level of a particular biomar 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:31.440 biomarker which the biomarker could indicate a patient's risk of 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:35.400 disease or a likely response to treatment. So, for example, 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:38.640 cholesterol levels are measured to assess the risk of heart disease, 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:42.040 right that could be a biomarker. So what they did 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:45.400 is they took blood samples from over seventeen thousand generally 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:48.599 healthy people, they screen screen them for more than a 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:53.200 hundred different biomarkers, and then those people were monitored over 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:56.640 a five year period. So in that time, six hundred 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.120 and eighty four people died of a range of illnesses 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:03.120 and diseases and put in cancer in cardiovascular disease, and 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:07.480 the scientists had discovered that those people all had similar 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:11.800 levels of for biomarkers. So that's where it really becomes 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:14.919 much more laser focused in terms of what are we 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:18.320 looking for here and what can predict death in the 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:22.360 next five years. And that research that they were doing 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:26.000 that was actually just another subset of research that had 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:30.040 been ongoing by Estonian researchers. They initially made this link 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.440 with it about I think ten thousand people, but they 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.239 were so skeptical about the results that they went ahead 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:37.960 and said to the folks of her at the Molecular 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.120 Medicine in Finland, hey, do you want to, you know, 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:43.560 try this out and see if you get similar results. 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:48.920 Well they got identical findings, which points to this idea 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:51.440 that we are getting closer and closer to this idea 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:53.680 of hey, can you check out my biomarkers and let 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:55.080 me know what's going to go on in the next 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:59.640 five years. I like the idea of having even almost 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:01.520 like I can imagine a future we have all your 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.600 wearable computers that are going on your implants, your little 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:09.200 handheld device, your little holographic displays that are letting you 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:11.960 and others know about various stats in your life. And 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:15.080 I can imagine every morning you call up that sort 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.120 of holographic death embodiment and you just sort of check 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:20.440 in with death and find out what the forecast is, 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:22.520 or you think that's how they're going to market it. 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:25.880 You know what, death watch, Death doesn't have to You 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:28.400 can choose which form death takes. Death can take out 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:30.800 like a classic medieval mode. I think that's what I'd 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:33.440 go for. But death can be uh, you know, an 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:38.000 attractive man or woman. Death can death avatar petty boop, Yeah, 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:41.320 hello kitty. I mean, you name it. But but then 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:43.960 I wonder too. In the same way that you know what, 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:47.000 if you're like me, you're always realizing for the first 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:49.120 time that there's something on your phone that is making 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.520 a little pop up like you didn't know that you're 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:54.320 that this news app isn't is somehow turned itself on 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:56.520 so that it needs to inform you when there's a 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:58.120 news update, and then you have to go and turn 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:00.560 it off in your settings. We end up in that 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:02.800 scenario with this where you realize, you know, I don't 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:05.120 want to hear from death every day. I don't want 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:08.000 my normal check up. I would rather just live in 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:10.000 ignorance of this. I'm going to turn this off, even 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:13.040 though all the technology here is at my fingertips. Yeah, 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:15.200 I mean you could be like, hey, Siri, what's what's 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:17.680 my death watching today? Hold on a second while I 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:20.600 check your bio markers. You know, it's like you could 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:23.679 you could do that constantly and just drive yourself nuts, 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:26.320 or you could just be like I, like you said, 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:29.440 I am just going to toss this uh into the 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:31.880 trash and not think about it because I don't want 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:34.600 to know. So this is one of those cases where 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:40.640 knowledge maybe isn't power or perceived power. Well, knowledge can 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:43.200 be power in the long run, right, but not knowledge 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:44.760 in the short run. Like if you tell me I'm 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:48.880 going to die in five years, uh, that conceivably could 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:51.479 make the next five years, you know, a little more streamlined, 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:54.240 but it's going to really crush me right now. So 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:56.520 I don't want to hear it, right, Yeah, I mean, 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:58.360 at the end of the day, this is basically like 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.880 knowledge in the short term. In the long term in 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:05.640 whether or not it just sucks, and nothing could probably 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:11.080 suck more than hearing hey, guess what you have an STD? Right? Well, yeah, 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:13.240 and I bring this up because it's related. And we've 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.920 just finished talking a lot about about syphilis. So you know, 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:18.959 we went into some of the you know, the the 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:23.080 the shame that is often associated with STDs uh, in 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:27.080 addition to the varying treatment you know available. But say that, 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:29.920 say someone wills to tell you, hey, you have syphilis today, 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.600 that is easily treated. The sooner, you know, the better. 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:34.800 But on the other hand, they're still going to come 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:37.440 with a lot of shame and then social anxiety over oh, 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:39.600 well I have syphilis. How did I get cipils? Soon? 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:42.240 Did I get syphilis too? And am I a bad 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:45.720 person in some sense because I have it? Yeah? And 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:49.720 but you know, some people might be information averse to that. 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:52.960 And some people, I mean a group of eighteen to 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:55.520 twenty four year olds, because this is as we know 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.640 from our research, this is the group that tends to 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:02.040 get STDs most. And in fact, I was thinking about 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:06.920 the HBO Girls show in which the character Hannah gets 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:10.040 HPV and so it turns out to be the sort 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:14.800 of more like a moment where she realizes that all 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:18.719 adventurous women will have an STD eventually, right, so she 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:22.480 kind of weaves that into her um her worldview. But 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:24.800 not everybody does that. Not everybody is like, I need 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:28.200 a plot point from my show. I'm gonna go see 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:30.600 the doctor and see if I have an STD. In fact, 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.400 a lot of people would rather not know that information. 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:35.679 And again that's sort of the z and sort of 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.480 the short term thinking when over the long term term thinking. 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.559 Is that basic human failure to value the long term 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:43.920 view over the short term of view. Yeah, and nothing 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.920 bears this out more than this this neat little study 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:51.120 about STDs and information aversion. And the study was conducted 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:55.320 by Josh Tassof, who was an economist at Claremont Graduate University, 0:10:55.400 --> 0:11:01.320 and Anonda Ganghoulian, Associate professor of accounting at Claremont McKenna College. Yeah, 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:04.080 and it's basically the same scenario we talked about at 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:07.040 the top of the screen. You imagine a thin man 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:08.960 in a row comes up and says, hey, I have 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:12.320 a file here, except he asked you would you like 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:15.040 to know if you have her pies? I mean, this 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:18.880 is the basic scenario there. And indeed, if this individual 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:20.480 were to come to me and asked me, I feel 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:22.480 like I would say, yes, let me know, tell tell 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:24.280 me if I have her pies. That would be some 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:27.040 good information for me to have at this point. All right, 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:28.920 So they kind of did that, except for the lap 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.079 coats on right. Yes, and it's and it's framed in 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:34.720 an actual study. Yeah, And they asked university students whether 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:36.760 or not they wanted to get tested for her pie 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:40.000 simplex virus. Now, they talked to them about the two 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:43.360 different types, the first type being the kind that just 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:47.120 caused cold stores. I'm sure everybody's familiar with HSV one, yes, 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.559 the second type being the one that causes genital stores. 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:54.880 Now here's the rup. They sent them along with little 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:58.200 pictures to identify the genital stores and the cold sores, 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:00.440 so that they had a very clear under standing of 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:05.520 the differences. And moreover, I feel like those photos probably 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:09.040 insided in them a bit of fear. Right, these are 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.040 your these are these are not your This is not 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:14.600 your herpes medication. Uh, you know, person walking in a field, 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:20.640 television spot. This is the the full on web md slash, 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:24.120 Google image search herpes dive. Yeah, that you did not 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:27.360 really want to see, but you saw. So they were 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:29.640 then told that a blood test could find out if 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.280 they had either form of a virus and then test 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:36.120 off and ganglie. They designed the experiment to eliminate any reason, 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:40.520 sort of extraneous reason that someone might decline to get information. 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:43.560 So they wanted to make sure that they weren't declining 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.080 the tests because they didn't want to have their blood drawn. Right, 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:48.480 So that's one thing that they said to him, Hey, 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.040 we can have all the students have their blood drawn, 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:53.400 but if a student chooses not to get tested, that 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:55.880 they would draw just tendency seeds of their blood and 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:58.760 in front of them, they would pour it down the sink. Yeah, 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:00.880 so that's it's not the fear of the needle that's 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:03.600 playing into this, because you're gonna get stuck with the needle. 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:05.920 They're gonna draw your blood. But if you say no, 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:08.720 then all right, we'll just pour your blood down the sink. Yeah. 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:10.559 The second thing is they made sure to let them 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.120 know that all of this was confidential, so that they 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.559 weren't worried about the results being shared with anyone else. Right, 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:18.679 it's not going to be announced to the whole group 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.160 it's not going to be published in the study. So yeah, 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:22.719 it's not it's not a fear of the needle. It's 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:26.000 not a fear of public shaming. It's just the fear 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:28.800 of the information that they are wrangling with. And to 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:32.199 avoid the information, to opt out of the information is 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:34.560 a ten dollar feet Yeah, that's the third thing. They 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:36.120 were like, if you don't want to get tested, you're 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:38.559 going to have to actually pay us ten dollars not 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:40.839 to test you. Yeah. So it's like the man in 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:43.160 the robe come up and say, hey, if you give 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:45.720 me ten dollars, I'll not tell you if you have 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:49.600 her pies. Again. They they structured it this way because 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:52.240 they wanted to make sure that it was very clear 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.480 that the people were burying their heads in the sand 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:58.520 here like an ostrich or. That's always the idea, right, 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:01.320 And there's a price tag on ignorance here. They have 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:04.480 to actually purchase the ignorance. It's not the passive ignorance 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.040 of I don't want to know what that credit card 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:08.880 bill is. I'm just going to ignore that envelope it. 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:10.880 So it's not the I'm just I don't want to 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:14.240 deal with that that that the email from my mother 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.280 in law. So I'm just gonna let it set there 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:19.600 on open. No, you have to actively pay ten dollars 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:23.600 to avoid the results of the herpes test. I pay 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:27.680 ten dollars to avoid my mother in laws, you know. Alright. 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:31.960 So while only five percent avoided the hs V one test, 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:36.880 three times as many avoided testing for the nastier form 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:41.720 of herbie. So here here we have very direct conclusions 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.480 that people were saying three times as much, I don't 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.160 want this, I don't want to know, even though this 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.520 could help them in terms of their healthcare down the 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.160 road the long term, right, yeah, and even I mean 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:55.320 the kind of the immediate short term, like the not 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:59.080 very long term, like your immediate um, you know, sexual activity. 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:03.160 Your immediate health is involved in all this. So it's 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:07.720 it's it's really troubling to to to read the findings 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:10.120 in this study. Yeah. And when they, when you actually 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:12.320 asked them, said well, why didn't you why didn't you 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.040 want this? Why did you opt out of this information? 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:18.680 Why did you pay to remain ignorant? Mostly they would say, well, 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:21.080 I just I didn't need that added anxiety. I didn't 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.480 want to worry with it with the added stress of 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:28.400 knowing potentially knowing that I have this this illness, that 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.520 I have her piece. Yeah, I feel like it's kind 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:32.560 of like that that people are like, I already have 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:37.440 a ton of existential dread and anxiety. I don't want 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.120 this on top of it. And it might seem to 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.520 to some people like I can't believe they made this decision. 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:45.880 But again, think in your own life, maybe it wasn't 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:49.160 an STD test or something else that you were avoiding 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:51.880 because you felt like it was just the weight of 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.600 that one more piece of knowledge might be the breaking point. Well, 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:58.880 you know, there's comfort in and we keep saying ignorance, 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:00.920 but I want to deframe it a little a little 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:06.280 more compassionately. There's there's comfort in ambiguity. It's it's almost 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:09.440 the comfort of a quantum state. You know, you don't 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:12.920 open that box, you then the cat is simultaneously dead 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.640 and alive, and you can cling to the possibility that 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:19.760 Shoulder's cat is alive, and so by not by opting out, 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:23.720 they're keeping their um, their state of herpes infection in 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.160 a quantum state. And you can take comfort in that 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.320 quantum state because if I don't know for sure, then 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:32.120 there's still this chance, then I'm good and I feel 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:33.880 like every I love the way you describe. I think 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:36.840 that's perfect, that quantum state. Everybody has experienced that, whether 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:39.640 or not it's a test that you just took in school, right, 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.200 and you're you're worried that you didn't pass it or 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.880 you didn't do as well as you think you might 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:49.280 have been able to. Just being in that uncertain state 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:54.160 means the possibility of getting a really good grade still exists. Yeah, 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:56.800 another health related option that comes to mind, and I 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:58.680 think of it because I think I have a dental 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:02.080 checkup coming up. Sometimes month is like right now, I 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.120 either have a cavity or I don't. You know, I don't. 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:07.320 I don't have any you know, discomfort or anything. But 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:09.080 you know, how did you go in and then you 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:10.720 if you just wait and you're waiting, you're waiting, and 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:12.919 then they'll tell you, oh, you have a cavity, and 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.520 then you're you're crushed or at least you know, I 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:17.919 feel crushed and then they have to to deal with it. 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:21.080 But you either have a cavity or you don't. But 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:25.800 your fear, you're fearing the absolute judgment that comes down 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.560 and knowing for sure, do you know, I just went 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:31.639 last week and I have a cavity. Yeah, and now 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:33.720 I'm sattled with the knowledge that I'll be in the chair. 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.280 All Right, we're gonna take a quick break, and when 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:39.680 we get back, we're going to talk about why this 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:43.159 sort of scare tactic strategy doesn't work in what we 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:50.159 can do. All Right, We're back, and I gotta tell you, 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.240 my tooth is starting to hurt now. All this time, 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:57.600 the psychic dread is boring into you. It's it is. 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.600 So I'm going to distract myself from that and say, hey, uh, 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.520 if you were a public health worker and you were 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.600 gonna you have disinformation now that that this sort of 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:10.760 information over exists in people because it's tapping into their 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:15.119 existential dread, um, how would you then go about trying 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:18.719 to get people to access information that might help them 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:20.679 in the long run. Yeah, that's a big question, and 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:25.320 that's certainly the question that the study from Claremont Graduate University, 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:28.479 uh dived into a bit at the at the end 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:32.680 of the study, because, yeah, doctors don't want that scenario 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:35.920 where the patient finally shows up after a twenty year 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:39.520 absence and the problems that they've encountered over time have 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:44.720 have escalated, you know, because almost always the case, early 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:51.000 detection is key to to effective treatment. Indeed, so what 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:54.000 do you do well? One of the things is, and 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:57.600 maybe this seems a little bit disingenuous, but one of 0:18:57.680 --> 0:18:59.840 the things that that you could do is to try 0:18:59.880 --> 0:19:04.000 to sort of maybe played down the idea of the 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:06.760 test itself and the results and the fact that you 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:09.080 might have, you know, in this in this scenario, like 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:14.320 I just terrible raw case of genal source, right, instead 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:16.760 of showing everybody these pictures, maybe you just talk more 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:19.520 about the long term management of this kind of thing 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:21.960 and and the benefits that you can have in finding 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:25.800 out the positives and other words, Yeah, and and sometimes 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:28.280 it goes beyond just like the hardcore like scaring people 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:30.600 with facts. I mean, the facts alone can be scary, 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.840 and you want people to know, you want people to 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:36.919 to to have the facts at their disposal. But but 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:40.160 you also look back at say the old syphilis posters 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:42.960 that we're talking about in previous episodes, the ones that 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:46.720 would which would would show women in sort of a 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:51.520 monstrous light was oftentimes literally with ghastly skull like faces 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:54.280 and pulling off of demonic mass that kind of thing, 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:58.600 and so like that's sending the message, uh that that hey, 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:00.560 if you have one of these, then it's probably because 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:04.120 you've been sleeping with monsters and you yourself are a monster, 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.200 And that's a scary message to send as well. Yeah, 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:10.520 it was a kind of slut shaming, like these old posters. 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:13.000 So what if you updated him with like the Hannah 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:18.240 Horvath version from Girls, We're like, hey, every adventurous woman 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.680 has an STD You see her like, you know, taking 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.159 off on a plane. Yeah, I mean, it's just kind 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:26.199 of like a kid. But you know what I'm saying, Like, 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:29.280 there's there's a way to reframe it. Yeah, yeah, framing 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:30.520 it in a sense like this is just the kind 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:33.280 of stuff that happens. Let's treat it, because treatment makes 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:36.480 things easier. I mean, it's we're boiling it down here. 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:41.000 But that's that's basically the strategy that they put forward 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:45.159 in this study. Now, the other recommendation they make comes 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:49.280 down to just frequency of tests. Now, the test in 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:51.840 this study, you know, it's a big deal. You're going 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:54.240 into this, you're signed up for this study, You're you're 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:57.680 you're filling out the paperwork, they're you're being shown information 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:00.240 about herpes, and it's all leading up to this test 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:03.399 and whether they're going to tell you if you have 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:05.199 have herpes or not they're actually going to test there, 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:06.680 or if it's going to be poured down the sink 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:10.200