1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from housetopwork dot com. 2 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: Hey wasn't stuff to blow your mind. My name is 3 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: Robert Lamb and my name is Christian Seger, and we 4 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: have we have quite an episode here for you today 5 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: because it involves the sex life of an ocean bone worm, 6 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: particularly the orthodox. Yeah. It was, um, you know, we 7 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: cover a lot of things that some people would label 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: as gross. Uh, and this is the first time that 9 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: I think we've been researching something that my stomach kind 10 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: of turned a little bit and I was like, well, 11 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. And I had just 12 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: gotten done writing about autopsies for another one of our shows, 13 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: and I was like, perfectly fine talking about like cutting 14 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: bones open and uh, lifting rib cages and removing organs 15 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 1: from human beings. But then we get into the Osadax 16 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: and it is a truly alien creature. It is something 17 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: that would give nightmares to to HP Lovecraft and uh, 18 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: you know the creators of the Alien movie. You know. Yeah, 19 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: it is beautifully grotesque and uh, and we'll make sure 20 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: that to include some some images of this creature on 21 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: the landing page for this episode is Stuff to Blow 22 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: Your Mind dot com and speaking of which we should 23 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: probably take a moment just to mention all the places 24 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: you can get the show and to interact with us. Yeah, 25 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: so Robrich just mentioned stuff to blow your Mind dot com. 26 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: That's our home base. That's where you can find all 27 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: the other stuff that we do other than the podcast, 28 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: and including the podcast. We've got our blog posts up there, 29 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: the articles that we write, all links to our social 30 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: media accounts and the videos that we've done as well. Uh, 31 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: And you can get to those social media accounts where 32 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: we are on Facebook, Twitter, and tumbler uh and all 33 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: those are blow the Mind. That's our handle there. Now. 34 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,839 Speaker 1: I blogged in the past about some of the scientific 35 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: findings regarding the austdects, but I kind of rediscovered it 36 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: through this factless new book, Sex in the Sea Our 37 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: Intimate Connection with Sex Changing Fish, Romantical Ofters, Kinky Squid, 38 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: and other Salty Erotica of the Deep by Jay Hart. 39 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: I like the cover because the X is two seahorses 40 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: rubbing up against each It is pretty great. And at 41 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: the end of this episode, uh Dr Hart is actually 42 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 1: going to chat with us for a few minutes about 43 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: the ostodox as well as some other creatures that are 44 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: covered in the book. Yeah, I really enjoyed the stuff 45 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: that was inside here. And she had like a fairly 46 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: irreverent tone for, you know, an academic professional when she 47 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: was talking about just the general overall importance of sex 48 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: in the ocean. Yeah, it's a great read. Dare I say, 49 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 1: a great beach read. So before we get into the 50 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: particulars of this creature itself, we should describe the ecosystem, 51 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 1: the specialized ecosystem in which it thrives, something that really 52 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: scientists have only begun to understand in the past few decades, 53 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: something known as whale fall. Yeah, and I knew what 54 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: this was, but I didn't know it was referred to 55 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: as such as whale fall. And whenever I hear the term, 56 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: I hear the theme song from the Bond movie Skyfall 57 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: with a dull singing and just let the whale fall, 58 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: let it crumble, that kind of thing. Uh So, it's 59 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: kind of it kind of works. It kind of works. 60 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 1: Maybe James Bond will go down to the bottom of 61 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: the ocean and swim around in some whale skeletons. Yeah, 62 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 1: I mean the falling and the crumbling that that is 63 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: exactly what's happening. Because whales is most people are familiar. 64 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: These are the largest animals on Earth, in fact, the 65 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: largest animals that have ever lived. And it's such their 66 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: bodies are like, it's like a starship of biological riches, right, yeah, 67 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: I mean think about like how much sustenance they provide 68 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: just floating, even when they're alive. Actually, but then when 69 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: they die and they're at the bottom there they're just 70 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: it's it creates a whole ecosystem, yeah, because these things 71 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: are just yeah, they're just an industry of just organic wealth, right, 72 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: They're just that. They're just the thriving system, organic system. 73 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: And then for most of their adult lives, they don't 74 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: have any natural predators except for you know, unless you 75 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: want to count humans. Enormous creatures long life. And then 76 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: of course they die, and that's when the carcass sinks 77 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: to the bottom of the ocean, down into this deep 78 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: sea waste land, and here it becomes an oasis, and 79 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: in a way a true oasis, as will explain as well. Yeah, 80 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: this is an interesting because one thing, like I don't 81 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: know about you, but I never think of whales dying. 82 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,359 Speaker 1: I don't really think of any marine life, like just 83 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: kind of swimming along and outside of being devoured by 84 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: a predator, just stopping and dying and floating to the bottom, 85 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 1: right like right, well, because that's the way for so 86 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 1: many things and for most creatures, right especially creatures in 87 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: an ecosystem like the ocean, because it's a it's a 88 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: it's an eater be eaten world, so something most creatures 89 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,679 Speaker 1: are facing the unavoidable fate of winding up in something's belly, 90 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: probably killed by that creature exactly. In whales are just 91 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 1: so huge that that you know, they don't really have 92 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: that issue. Although we'll find out it's kind of interesting, 93 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: like we as human beings haven't really known a whole 94 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 1: lot about this up until recently because they float to 95 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,679 Speaker 1: the bottom. And it's turns out like we may even 96 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: have like missed out like on an entire evolutionary process 97 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: that's been going on at the bottom of the ocean 98 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: based on these whalefalls. Yeah, whale falls were first really 99 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: truly recognized in the nineteen eighties. They were, and this 100 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: was following decades of of incidents in which new species 101 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: of muscles and mollusks were discovered on whale bones. Um 102 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: even even a small whale serves as just a luxurious 103 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: bounty of nutrients. And so for a while we were 104 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 1: discovering like, oh, we just discovered a whole bunch of 105 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: new species and it's all related to this whale corpse. 106 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: And as it turns out, yeah, the dead whale serves 107 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: as just an explosion of bioeconomic activity. And this is cool, 108 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: like like an actual oasis. They may serve as stepping 109 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: stones for creatures traveling from one far flung aquatic ecosystem 110 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: to another. Yeah, and that gets into the osadax that 111 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about primarily today. We're just this 112 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: is the preamble. We're setting you up. But yeah, we 113 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: haven't discovered osodax until the last like what fifteen years, 114 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: And they primarily think that's true because they're they're moving 115 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 1: around at the bottom. We're not at the bottom, at 116 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,799 Speaker 1: least not until recently. But they have these like way 117 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 1: stations basically at all these whale carcasses. Yeah, and we're 118 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: continuing to discover new varieties of osodex to still a 119 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: very active area of scientific exploration. So at a whale 120 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: fall um is we'll explain here. It tracts quite a 121 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: rogues gallery of scavengers, both generalists who are just kind 122 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: of you know, passing by its like, oh, dead wale, 123 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: I'll take a bite of that, and specialists who are like, 124 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,119 Speaker 1: dead whale, that's my thing, call me when it's ready 125 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: from my expertise level. And that's our buddy, the osodax. 126 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 1: That's right. But before we get to the osod X. 127 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: So there's there's several phases that go on with these 128 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: whale falls, right, It's not just like thump whale falls 129 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: and just everybody in like one day just eats the 130 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: whole thing, right, that's right. There are three identified stages. 131 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: The first is the mobile scavenger stage. So this is 132 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,239 Speaker 1: pretty basically the carcass hits the sea floor, the hag fish, 133 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: which the hag fish itself is a wonderful, grotesque, creepy Yeah. Yeah, 134 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: we're really getting into some of the grotesque ys a 135 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: marine life here. Yeah, I mean, this is it's a 136 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: scavenger's feast. This is when all the girls come out, right, 137 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: the hagfish tunnel into the meat just apparently just riding 138 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: hordes of them sleeper sharks stuff come by. They grab 139 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: some mouthfuls of the flesh and steadily descrab scavengers strip 140 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: away all the soft tissue, leaving basically eating a small 141 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: humans weight in whale flesh a day for up to 142 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: two years, depending on the whale side. Right. Yeah, wow, 143 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: that's fascinating. Uh yeah, we should really like look into 144 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: the hagfish. Because as I was doing the research for this, 145 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: one hagfish kept popping up over and over again. I 146 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: was like, that's pretty gnarly as well, Like, yeah, they are, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um. 147 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: So there's a second stage, and that's the enrichment opportunist stage, right, 148 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: And this is when you get these high density, low 149 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: diversity communities of bristle worms and crustacean and so these 150 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: are really the bottom dwellers, right, U colonizing around there 151 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: from the surrounding sediment and they feed on the leftover 152 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: blubber and the soft scraps for another two years. So 153 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: we're looking at like a four year process at this point, right. 154 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: And then comes the third and longest stage, the soulpophilic stage, 155 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: and this last between fifty years and a solid century, 156 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: depending again on the whale side. And this is all 157 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: about the lipid rich bones of the whales. Specialized bacteria 158 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: anaerobically breakdown lipids containing the bones, and this is also 159 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 1: where the opodox begins to show up. But before we 160 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: get into that, I want to mention the oasis theory 161 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: of whalefall real quick. So, given all of this that 162 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: we've discussed here in the phase, and just the the 163 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: long period of time it takes to completely break down 164 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: a whale carcass, According to marine ecologist Craig Smith, around 165 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 1: sixty nine thousand great whales die every year, so there 166 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: might be uh six in ninety thousand skeletons of the 167 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: nine largest whale species out there at any given tossed 168 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 1: all over the place. And these are just a little communities. 169 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 1: This is very um China mia Ville. I don't know 170 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: if you've ever read any of his like fantastic boss 171 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: log fiction, but like I think in one of his stories, 172 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: like the City Had, the city that all these creatures 173 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: live in is built under the bones of a giant 174 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: creature like and then they also like at one point 175 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: like Harness a giant whale like thing and have it 176 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: pulled them around and it dies, and then they have 177 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: to go down and look at its corpse and everything 178 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting, huh. Guierma del Toro did kind 179 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: of a neat take on that in the Pacific Realm movie, 180 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: more alluded to than explored, but just the thriving economy 181 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: of a massive dead creature. Yeah, yeah, exactly, Yeah, those 182 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: were very similar. Um So, all right, Osadax. Before we 183 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: get into the details, I'm gonna this is a very 184 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: visual thing. And so I printed out a photo of 185 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: an Osadax worm here, and we're gonna try to, I 186 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: guess describe it to from our perspective, but you should 187 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: certainly go do an image search O S E. D 188 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: A X. These are really weird looking creatures, and I 189 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: guess the best place to start is it looks like 190 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: a cloud, right like kind of like a pink red cloud. 191 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: I'm assuming those are like the filaments, but just at 192 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: the scale, it looks like a cloud of mist uh 193 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: and and little bubbles and stuff all floating around on 194 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: one end and coming out of that is one tentacle 195 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 1: tendril thing that then branches off into several other tentacles. Uh. 196 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:41,239 Speaker 1: And they're sort of translucent and pink looking and scary 197 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: like it looks it looks like a lovecraft monster, like 198 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: something somebody would draw for like a Call of Cthulhu campaign. Yeah, 199 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: and it's pretty crazy that we're also recording an episode 200 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 1: today about the Medusa nebulas yea a Nebula photo printed 201 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: out as well. And there's actually a fair amount of 202 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: comparison to and the scale they scale is so uh 203 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: so different, so infinitely different, that it's it's mind bubbling. 204 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: But we've seen them both because we're humans and we're industrious. 205 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: Speaking of scale, uh, when we're talking about the size 206 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: of this creature, we're looking at a cinemeter or lesson lanes. Yeah, 207 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: they're tiny. Yeah, it's a finger lane. And let's keep 208 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: in mind that's the female, right, Yes, the females are 209 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: a centimeter in length. We'll get to the males later, 210 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: but they're much tinier now. The name is itself derives 211 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 1: from the Latin for bone devour, because of course that's 212 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: what it's done. It does, but you'll also find it described, 213 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: of course as as as a mirror ocean bone worm 214 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: or a zombie worm. Yeah, and and so the Latin 215 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 1: breakdown of this OHS is Latin for bone and dax 216 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: is Latin for devour. It's like the most metal animal 217 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 1: in the c I think, oh, yeah, there's surely got 218 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: to be some metal band called Osadax by now, But hey, 219 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: we've only known about them for fourteen years. So they 220 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: were discovered in two thousand two. Uh, first described in 221 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: two thousand four from Monterey Ay, where they found a 222 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: whale there that was experimented on, and then they also 223 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: did further experiments in Sweden and Japan and Antarctica. So 224 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: in two thousand three, scientists purposely sank a dead mink 225 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: whale down a hundred and twenty meters off the Swedish 226 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: coast and they monitored this whale fall. Uh. And so 227 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: you know, like we just mentioned whale falls, really the 228 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: ecosystem goes on for up to a hundred years, so 229 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: who knows, they're probably still monitoring it. But within you know, 230 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: that span of time, they did see that by recovering 231 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: the bones in two thousand four that there were these 232 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: worms in the bones, and these were the Osada sworms, 233 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: and they were usually up until then only found in 234 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: the Pacific, so this was kind of a surprise. They 235 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: didn't think they were going to find them in northern 236 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: waters like this. Then in two thousand thirteen. They do 237 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: the same thing, this mink whale test. Right, I don't 238 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: know where you just get ahold of a mink whale carcass, 239 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: but who knows. Uh. And they repeated this in Antarctica 240 00:12:57,559 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: and they dropped it all right off the coast of 241 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: Antarctica and the same thing there too. They found that 242 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: there were Osodax worms there as well. Now this is 243 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: an important distinction. The Osodax is a genus, right, these 244 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,199 Speaker 1: were all different species. Every time they were doing these tests, 245 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: they were finding different species of Osadax. That's right. And 246 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: I believe currently there at least eleven known species of Osdax, 247 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: and of course that's changing as a research continues to 248 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: to to roll out. Yeah, so they're really at this point, 249 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: we think they're found all over the world at depths 250 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: around four thousand meters which I'll do a quick conversion 251 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: that's thirteen thousand, one d twenty three feet um. And 252 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: they're they're real gross um. They're covered in mucus um. 253 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: In fact, I've heard some heard I've read some articles 254 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: that refer to them as snot flowers. Did you see that, No, 255 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 1: I didn't see. Apparently, like the part of them that's 256 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: not boring into the bones with the part that's exposed 257 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: to the sea water, it's covered in this like mucus 258 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: like bubble. Maybe that's what we're seeing here with the 259 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: cloud stuff that we're looking at. And uh and because 260 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: of that mucus, some people call them snot flowers. I'm 261 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: gonna stick to bone worms and osdax. Yeah, I mean, 262 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: no matter how you go, they're kind of gross. Like 263 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: one of the things I was thinking about yesterday is like, 264 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: then this is where mine my mind goes when we 265 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: research stuff like this, is like what if you could 266 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: take an osdax uh and make it You make it larger, 267 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: and then you speed up its life process and then 268 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: you throw it at your enemies. So you've got like 269 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: an osdax grenade, right, and you you throw it at somebody, 270 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: they get splattered with osedax worms and the worms just 271 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: start burrowing right into your bones and you've got all 272 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: these little snot flowers sticking out of you. That would 273 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: be a pretty bad way to go, right, That would 274 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: be a bad way to go. So these uh guys 275 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: are gals to be technical about the whole thank you. 276 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: The bores are mainly gals. They they are mouthless and gutless. 277 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: They have no digestive tract, they have no anus uh, 278 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: and they have little appendages that stick out into the 279 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: water column for gas exchange, but can be retracted uh 280 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: into a mucous tube if disturbed. The mucous tube. Now 281 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: on the real business end, though, you have ton of 282 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: They tunnel into whale bone with green, fleshy roots. They're 283 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: often described as like not quite pinnacles, more like roots, 284 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: and they grow into the bone and they break it down. 285 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: So it's in a way, it behaves a lot like 286 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: a plant, and it's feeding technique here. And that's how 287 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: Heart kind of describes it in her book as well. Yeah, 288 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: it's kind of taking I think she she says that 289 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: it takes a page from the plant playbook, if you will. Yeah, 290 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: so this is vile. Just what do you think about it? Right, 291 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: Like these tentacles drill into the bones, then they create 292 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: a root network, and then on the outside, presumably I guess, 293 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: like drawing in nutrients or something from the sea water 294 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: around it, there's this mucacy cloud, gross tube thing. Uh. Yeah, 295 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: they're pretty horrifying. I have a quote here from Heart 296 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: uh in Sex and the Sea she says. Even more strange, 297 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: these roots grow from around the ovisak, like a fibrous 298 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: network of food factory sprouting out of the worm equivalent 299 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: of fallopian tubes. Yeah, that would definitely upset Lovecraft even 300 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: more like the just the genuine feminine nature of these 301 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: things would also be upsetting for him. So you've got 302 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: two for two in the Lovecraft column. The uh, the 303 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: sea life, and then also just his general fear of women. 304 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: And we haven't even gotten to be acid yet, because 305 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: the worms use a a proton pump to secrete acid 306 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: through the roots into the bones. According to a two 307 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: thousand thirteen Swedish study, the creature pumps out this bone 308 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: melting acid into the tunnel as it tunnels its way 309 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: in after all that delicious collagen and all those lipids. 310 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: But here's where he gets even more amazing. According to 311 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: to this particular study, the process is very similar to 312 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: how mammals repair and remodel bones, specifically human so it's 313 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: it's only in reverse. So essentially they're ungrowing the bones 314 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: with their with their acid, which is wonderful. Yeah, And 315 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: it's so it's similar to humans in the way that 316 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: like our kidneys basically handled blood and urine function, right, 317 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: but it's just the opposite. Uh yeah, yeah. The the 318 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: the acid secreting enzymes you find are are are similar 319 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: in some ways to those found in human kidneys that 320 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 1: handle blood in urine functions. But then, of course, how 321 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: do they actually consume the nutrients. Scientists are still studying 322 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: this area of osodox biology, but it seems that the 323 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: symbiotic bacteria in the worms plays a key role. It's 324 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: possible that the symbiotic bacteria metabolize the bone derived collagen 325 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: into other organic compounds, and that the worm just digest 326 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 1: the bacteria after it feeds. So it's yeah, imagine this 327 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: situation where the symbiotic relationship with the bacteria in side. 328 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: At the bacteria is benefiting from the initial feeding and 329 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 1: then the osodox is feeding on the bacteria inside it. Yeah, 330 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: it's a it's a clean we can say that much 331 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: outside of it being covered in mucus. But you gotta 332 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: when you see something like this, we discover something like this, 333 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: you gotta go like wow, you know, this is one 334 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: of those instances where like we're looking for alien life, 335 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: we wonder what alien life is gonna look like. And 336 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 1: then We've got this just sitting on our back door, 337 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: stepped down at the bottom of the ocean, and you 338 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: gotta wonder, like, how how did such a thing evolve? 339 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 1: And also like the cleanliness of the mechanism, right, like 340 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: the perfection of this mechanism. Um, they're they're apparently related 341 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: to those same you know, we've we've talked about these 342 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: a lot on the show before, like those giant tube 343 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: worms that live near like the super heated vents. Uh, 344 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: they're like that, And this gives more rise to that 345 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: theory what I was talking about earlier. Uh, it's it's 346 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: similar to the oasis theory, the idea of whalefalls as 347 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: service stops. Right, that these life forms are all just 348 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,479 Speaker 1: kind of moving along the ocean floor. So maybe they 349 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: evolved or adapted out of those tube worms, right, and 350 00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: then somehow, you know, found their first whale falls nervist stop. 351 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: But they really evolved alongside whales, which is pretty fascinating. Uh. 352 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: And here's where it gets interesting, right, because human beings 353 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: have been devastating the whale population for the last I 354 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 1: don't know what two d years. Uh, that there's a 355 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: theory that this has curtailed the activity of creatures like 356 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: the Osadak's worm because there's less for them to feed 357 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: on the ocean floor. So it's possible that there has 358 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: been an extinction of certain bottom dwelling organisms that we've 359 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 1: never seen and there's no evidence of them left over. Yeah. 360 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: Because you remove a whale from the ocean, you process 361 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: it for whaling purposes, you are stealing its environment from it. 362 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 1: It's uh, the ephemeral environment. So maybe there is something 363 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: even grosser and weirder, devouring, devouring whale bones before we 364 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: started hunting whales, but now we don't know, We don't 365 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: know what was down there. Yeah. Now, so there's a 366 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: lot of genetic evidence that really gets into this whole 367 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: idea that they they co evolved with whales, that they 368 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: are essentially about forty million years old. Uh, And then 369 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: there's some genetic evidence to back this up. But according 370 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: to a two thousand fifteen study from the University of Plymouth, 371 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: there's actually fossil evidence that the osodox fed on bones 372 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: of marine reptiles during the age of dinosaurs, So that's 373 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: at least a hundred million years ago as opposed to 374 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: forty to forty five million years ago. Yeah, I read 375 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: an article about this and they said that the scientists 376 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 1: involved used a CT scanner on a pleosaur and a 377 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: sea turtle fossils and they found the exact same boreholes 378 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: that we find from Osadax worms in whale bones. Now, 379 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: they matched the patterns almost exactly. So it's possible. Here's 380 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 1: another thing that will blow your mind. Uh, it's possible 381 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: that there were skeletons down there of species giant water 382 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: species that we had we didn't discover because the osadax 383 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 1: worms and similar entities devoured the whole thing clean up 384 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 1: the Yeah, and they're not part of We don't have 385 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: those to be part of the fossil record now, so 386 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: we don't know. Maybe there are other things like plesaurs 387 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: down there. I'm sorry I said that wrong. Please us 388 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: or it just reminded everybody. You know that the fossil 389 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 1: record is, by its very nature incomplete. Especially the circumstances 390 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: have to be just right for fossilization to take place. 391 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: It's something that that keeps scavengers from completely erasing it. 392 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: For instance. Yeah, we actually just did a brain Stuff 393 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: episode about that. I believe Joe is involved in the 394 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: writing of that. It's about why some skeletons become fossils 395 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: and some don't. So if you want to learn more 396 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: about that, go check out brain Stuff. We'll make sure 397 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: to include a link to that on the landing page 398 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 1: for this episode. It's suffitability in mind dot com. But hey, 399 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: let's go ahead and take a quick break at this point. Hey, 400 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: everybody in this day and age, you have to have 401 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: a professional looking website. It's how we represent ourselves to 402 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: the world around us. It's uh, it's your calling card. 403 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 1: But hey, not everybody out there has access to a 404 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 1: big wig developer or has the coding experience to just 405 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: go out and build something from scratch. And that is 406 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: where square space comes in. Square Space gives you the 407 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 1: tools you need, the the interface that you can handle 408 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: to build a professional looking website. Um. It is a 409 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: great option. It's a perfect excuse to go out and 410 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: build that website you've always been wanting to build, and 411 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,400 Speaker 1: hey you can if you sign up now using our 412 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: special code mind Blown, you can get ten percent off 413 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: your first order and you can actually snag your domain 414 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,479 Speaker 1: name for a year. So again at square space mind Blown, 415 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: go out and build that website. Alright, we're back alright, 416 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: so you have a great phrasing system. I think that 417 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 1: you've got maybe from heart. For this particular section where 418 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,719 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about the sex lives of the Osdax 419 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: bone worm, you call them a harem of the osdax. 420 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: Sounds like a Doctor Who episode title, it does, or 421 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: like a grown up Dr SEUs episode. Yeah, so that 422 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: you have the harem of the osodox. It's um. I 423 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: believe Hart was the one to use the term the harem, 424 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: or at least that's where I saw it first. So 425 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: remember that quote earlier from her about the fibrous network 426 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: of food factory sprouting out of the worm equivalent of 427 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: fallopian tubes. Well, that probably makes you think. And we 428 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: already alluded the fact that that osodox as we typically 429 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: encounter them are all female. So where are the males? 430 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: That was a question scientist asked as well. Males had 431 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: to exist because they looked at the females and they 432 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: contained plenty of sperm or they seem to contain plenty 433 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 1: of sperm cells. And then they found their answer. Those 434 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: were not male sperm cells at all. Those were tiny 435 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: dwarf males, a harem of microscopic males. Inside the female. 436 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: In each of these males is a hundred thousand times 437 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: smaller than the female imprisoning them. So imagine this because 438 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: we just talked about the scale, right, So there's females 439 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: are about a cent to me eater long, and then 440 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: the males are each a hundred thousand times smaller than 441 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: that and all live inside of a female. Yeah, it's it. 442 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: It might be the most outrageous example of sexual dimorphism 443 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 1: on the planet. And it's well beyond the whole like 444 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: like think of the old B movie Attack of the 445 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: fifte you know, like right, Yeah, the scenarios so like 446 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: a hundred fifty feet tall may not even be big enough. 447 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,719 Speaker 1: You have to be a hundred thousand feet all. Like, 448 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: even that is nothing compared to the sexual dimorphism we 449 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: see with with most osodox worm. Yeah. And I guess 450 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: just thinking about it from the general perspective, as we 451 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: humans normally do of our own you know, experience, right, 452 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: so thinking about our reproductive process, I don't I still 453 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: don't quite see how that works. If there's a hundred 454 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: thousand males living inside one female, how does that work. 455 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: I wouldn't even think that their sperm would be able 456 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: to to do anything. What's the theory there, Well, it 457 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: breaks down like this apparently. So larval astodox worms arrive 458 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: at a whale fall, they cover the bones just completely. 459 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: They sink their roots in, They feed, they grow, they 460 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: produce eggs. Later, larval astodox worms arrive and they land 461 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: on the larger established females. It's already coated. There's no 462 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: room left to establish. These famous females then transform into males. Okay, okay, 463 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: so we've got they're able to um do like some 464 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: kind of gender morphing. Yeah, in their larval stage, they 465 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: morph in the males and they crawl inside the females 466 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: and they start producing sperm. So this is an example 467 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: of environmentally controlled sex determination. We see varying degrees. This 468 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: occur in many other animals and also in fictional places 469 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 1: like Jurassic Park. Oh yeah, well maybe they right, Maybe 470 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,919 Speaker 1: that was You still haven't seen Jurassic World yet, how 471 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 1: I have? Well, yeah, maybe that's how they created their 472 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: super duper dinosaur and that or whatever. Like, wasn't it 473 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: able to like self replicate or something like that? Oh no, 474 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: that's from the original dress. They've got some osadax worm 475 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 1: genes in there or something, right, I'd like to see that. 476 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: Here's something that I read about the mail transformation that 477 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: made it even weirder for me. Okay, this is the description. 478 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: When they become mail, a long go nattle duct extends 479 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: from their rear and out of a poor just above 480 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: their brain, so they basically become little penises. All development 481 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: at this stage again, it's they're trapped in this larval 482 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: stage and all development save testies, development just halts from 483 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: that point on because they're there. They've arrived that if 484 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 1: the mail is just a a necessary mutation that you 485 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: need to deliver its share of the reproductive package, the 486 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: package is delivered, just cut out everything like for efficient. 487 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: It's incredibly efficient. Yeah. Can you imagine if our lives 488 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: were that much easier, right, Like we didn't have to 489 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: go through the whole like like cording, mating rituals and 490 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: all the cultural stuff that we've set up around sex. 491 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: It's just like, oh, there are already women here, Okay, 492 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna turn into a man. Yeah, it would it. 493 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: Life would be a lot easier, wouldn't It would make 494 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: things easier little maybe a little interesting. So the males 495 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: carry on inside the female they eventually died, so she 496 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: has to keep obtaining new males for the harem will 497 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: and by the end of her life, a female osodox 498 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: worm may have several hundred males insider. But then of 499 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: course the whale bone riches eventually give out and everything dies. Yeah, 500 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: so then this is where I have and i'd love 501 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: you know, I know that this study is just in 502 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: its infancy, but I'd love to figure this out. So 503 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: how do they then get to another whalefall? Right? Like 504 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: if they their whole lives are spent on this one 505 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: set of bones and they're going through their reproductive system 506 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: that way, I wonder how the other ones then then 507 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 1: move on and find their way to another set of 508 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: whale bones. Well, I would imagine the larva have to 509 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: set off across the desert, right, we're back to the oasis. Yeah, 510 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,880 Speaker 1: they have to drift on until they find the next 511 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: carried on a current or something like that, until they 512 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: land in the right place. Yeah. It's my understanding that 513 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: this is also an area where the research is still 514 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: ongoing to to figure out, because there's one thing to 515 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: be able to study them at the site where you 516 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: know they're going to be. But in other mysteries about 517 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: their reproductive cycle. Again across several different species of osodox 518 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: remain and there and there's still like this is we're 519 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: really in like the first not even two decades of 520 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: Osodax research, right, and so uh tons of new species 521 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: are being discovered all the time, like and like they 522 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: give them like kind of cool names, like I think 523 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: it's like Osadas antarcticus or something like that, like the 524 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: one where they found in Antarctica. And I actually read 525 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: that there are some where the males are not that tiny. 526 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: There are some species that have been discovered where the 527 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: males are a little bit larger. But we don't really 528 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: fully understand this whole thing just yet some of its guestwork. 529 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: So I imagine, you know, as we move on over 530 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: the next couple of years, we're gonna keep hearing more 531 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: and more giblets of Osadax research coming out. Yeah, that 532 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,479 Speaker 1: the one you alluded to already. H That that one 533 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: came from a two thousan fourteen study from the University 534 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: of California UH San Diego, where they revealed this new 535 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: species where the males were larger and they can move 536 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: and actually consume bone on their own they can stretch 537 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: out their bodies to find new worms, and they say 538 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 1: this all amounts to an evolutionary reversal to an ancestral state. 539 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: So the genes for the larger males were still there 540 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: and this species of Osodox employs them. Um, which is 541 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: which is interesting. Um. Again, the scenario they're still exploring. 542 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: But I wonder to what extent that has to do 543 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: with the species having to to roll with the with 544 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: the changes in the environment, such as decades and decades 545 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: of fewer whale carcasses out there. Well, maybe we'll be 546 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: able to get some of these answers from our discussion 547 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: with doctor Hart based on her book. Now there's a 548 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: whole section about the Osodox worms in this book, but 549 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, this book is like way more 550 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: than that. I mean, it's about the sex lives of 551 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: everything that's under the sea. I'm hearing Sebastian the Lobster 552 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: from from The Little Mermaid in the back of my head. So, um, 553 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: maybe we can ask her about some of those things 554 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: and get some answers. Well, hey, welcome to the show. 555 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: We just finished discussing the Osodox and it's curious mating 556 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: and feeding habits here in the show, based on a 557 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: handful of papers and your coverage of the the Osodex 558 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: chronicles in your book, Um So Wonderful, tell us where 559 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: does the sex life of the Osodex rank on the 560 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: spectrum of the beautifully weird in your book? I would 561 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: say that it ranks definitely in the very, very weird category. 562 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: In fact, I often I often use it as an 563 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: example when I talk about how sex is so important 564 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: and really the driver of diversity on the planet, but 565 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: that some of these systems, when we're looking at them, 566 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: we don't even realize, you know, what it is that 567 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: we're looking at for quite some time, because it's so 568 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: different from what we think of as sex. Autho Sacs 569 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: as my example of that, it is just so completely 570 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: foreign to you know, first of all human reproductive habits, 571 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: but certainly even mammals and most of the animals most 572 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: people are familiar with. So I would say it's it's 573 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: definitely on the really strange side of the spectrum um. 574 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: But what's really beautiful about it is it does give 575 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: us a little bit more insight into this idea of 576 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,959 Speaker 1: you know, female control really and a little bit more 577 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: of a female dominant side of the sexual equation, and 578 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: often we tend to think that sex is and we 579 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: see this a lot with mammals again, that males tend 580 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,719 Speaker 1: to seem to be dominating things and controlling the situation. 581 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: And so here's a wonderful example of how females are really, 582 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: um really the ones in charge with what's going on. 583 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: That's a perfect lead in for my next question, Mara. 584 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: So in the book you refer to Austdax males as 585 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: being sex slaves. Do we know yet if they serve 586 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: any other purpose other than reproduction? We don't. And because 587 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: they are sort of duck in this uh sort of 588 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: pre pubescent state, they you know, they can't really engage 589 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: in the world in many other ways. Now that I 590 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: should say, there's one caveat here, So there's one Austotax. 591 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: This is why I refer to it as the Autodax chronicle, 592 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: because I think, you know, what we're finding out about 593 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: these species just keeps evolving over very rapidly. Over time. 594 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: We're finding out more and more. So there is one 595 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: species where the males are independent. Yeah, the one that 596 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: has just discovered off of San Diego and fourteen. Yes, 597 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: it's oxid that I think it was San Diego, So 598 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: is that I'm going to say hesitant, yes, but yes, yep, 599 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: and they they so they're they're an exception to the rule. 600 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: And there's some really neat things about that story in 601 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: and of itself. But you know, to answer your question around, 602 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: you know, do we know if they save any other purpose? 603 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: They live off their yolk stack. Um, so they you know, 604 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,959 Speaker 1: are independent in terms of their nutrition, and it seems 605 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: like the only truly functional component is their mature testies 606 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: and they just sort of shoot the sperm out through 607 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: these tubes that are up from the tops of their 608 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: heads and live inside the female. So um. I don't 609 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: know when they die whether or not this female can 610 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: make use of the little bit of you know, organic 611 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: matters if they leave behind. They're so so tiny. But again, 612 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 1: she can have rams of hundreds, so this is complete speculation. 613 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: But maybe. But again because the AdEx, the females have 614 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: no mouth and no gut, and they're really just subsisting 615 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 1: off these weird symbiotic bacterial relationships they have. I don't 616 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: know if they can digest the males um. So yeah, 617 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 1: I mean they're contributing um. Genetic genetic inputs, and I 618 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 1: don't know much else. Um As specifically regarding that other 619 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 1: species we were talking about, the one with the larger males, 620 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 1: how do they breathe the same way even though the 621 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: males are larger, they're just there's less of them, I'm assuming, right, So, 622 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: um they What happened is the males can independently you know, 623 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 1: they have these similar roots structures to the females, so 624 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: they will independently attached to the bone of the worm, 625 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: and they grow a similar size tube and then they 626 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: basically reach they We think, again this is a really 627 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: new discovery, so there's ongoing research here, but we think 628 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,240 Speaker 1: that they use their tube kind of as a giant 629 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 1: sallust and they reach that tube into the other females 630 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 1: around them and deposit the sperm. Because for what we 631 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 1: can understand, that's far especially given the females that have 632 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,799 Speaker 1: the dwarf males. They they're internally fertilized, right, So the 633 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: sperm is released inside the female, it fertilizes her eggs, 634 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: and then she releases these fertilized eggs into the into 635 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 1: the sea. And so we think that what happens with 636 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,919 Speaker 1: the males is that they sort of arc their tube 637 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: over to the females nearby and can deposit the sperm 638 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: that way. But again, this is pretty pretty new stuff. Um, 639 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: but I'll check sort of in the background as we 640 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,919 Speaker 1: chat here. But I think that that's part of the name, 641 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 1: is that the name has something to do with having 642 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: this okay body that serves as a fallust. But I 643 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: could I could be mistaken now now I have. I 644 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,839 Speaker 1: remember reading that there's a there's some thought that this 645 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 1: is kind of a reversion to a more archaic form 646 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: in this particular species. Is yeah, yeah, I couldn't help. 647 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: But wonder does this have anything to do with the 648 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: impact of human whaling activities on their their naturally occurring 649 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 1: ecosystems or when I jump into conclusions there, right, So 650 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 1: that's it's a good question, and um, the answer is 651 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: likely no. And this is because it would be very 652 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 1: fast in evolutionary time to have a species be able 653 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:48,959 Speaker 1: to do this really pretty significant reversal. So basically, when 654 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: we see in a species this, it's called patamorphs. This 655 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: is what the males are defined as in science, and 656 00:36:55,080 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 1: it means a larval state but with mature reproductive parts. Right, 657 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: So it's really weird, right, you have something that's basically 658 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: frozen in its development, but for whatever reasons it you know, 659 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 1: in the case of assatas the test, these can mature 660 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 1: and that takes um some pretty significant uh selection for 661 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: that kind of a male female pattern to evolve and 662 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: to reverse that. This is the only case where scientists 663 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 1: thus far have found a species that has a sister species, 664 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 1: you know, closely related cousin or sister species that came 665 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: from the sort of the ancient ancestor had the patamor 666 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 1: had this this arrested development in the males, but then 667 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: evolved a species that where that male was actually able 668 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,800 Speaker 1: to break free from that kind of um those those 669 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,839 Speaker 1: those bonds and actually bloom into a fully mature, independent 670 00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:02,279 Speaker 1: living individual. So that would have taken much longer than 671 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: the you know, two hundreds of three hundred years of 672 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: whaling pressure that we have put on. And it's not 673 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 1: just whales. So Authodex can live off of bones of 674 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 1: other species too. They've been found on carcasses of other animals, 675 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 1: so it's you know, they're used to be the shemeral 676 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: food supplies. So I don't think so um. So there 677 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 1: is a rash now that they think might be behind us. 678 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: So but but just to jump in, so I was 679 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,880 Speaker 1: remembering correctly, okay, which is that the preas the species 680 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: name for this independent for the species with the independent male, 681 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 1: comes from the Greek for um, one of the gods 682 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: of procreation, So it basically has to do with personification 683 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:50,280 Speaker 1: of the fallus. So the fact that they have these 684 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,879 Speaker 1: these tubes that they are likely using to insert into 685 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: the female um is kind of where the name name 686 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,799 Speaker 1: came from. So another like and I know, I recognize that, 687 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 1: like that, we are just barely scratching the surface of 688 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: what we know about this genus. But do you do 689 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 1: you have any insight into when a female Osadax dies, 690 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 1: do the males inside her die as well? Or do 691 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 1: they move on to like another female host. So they're 692 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: still trying to figure out, you know, what um, So 693 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 1: where these males you know, come from and what sort 694 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 1: of the dispersal is a guess of the larvae you know, 695 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,319 Speaker 1: and the eggs as they go out. But basically the 696 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,479 Speaker 1: males have very short lifespans compared to the females because 697 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,719 Speaker 1: again they are subsisting entirely off their yolksack. So again 698 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 1: their their larvae, right, and so once they run out 699 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: of that yolksac they die. So she's constantly having to 700 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: collect more and more male as she's on on these 701 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 1: whales um and and uh feeding off these these dis 702 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 1: whale carcass and again, you know, I would have fast 703 00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: um dr ralph. I'm not sure what with the lifespan 704 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,800 Speaker 1: of the female is. I would imagine it's a few 705 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: weeks maybe a few months, until they've literally scavenged everything 706 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,240 Speaker 1: um and the and they don't move. So each female 707 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: is sort of rooted to her spot on the whale. 708 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:21,040 Speaker 1: And so once she is sort of um sucked dry 709 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: all the nutrients in those bones, then she's got she's 710 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: got nothing left and I'm not yeah, so she can't 711 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,759 Speaker 1: she can't move location. They sort of route down, or 712 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,239 Speaker 1: at least we think they sort of route down, and 713 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: these huge colonizations they degrade, um the carcass, it deteriorates, 714 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: you know, just like um we see with uh you 715 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,400 Speaker 1: know bugs, you know, uh, you know, ants doing on 716 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 1: dead bugs or things like that. They kind of chew 717 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,920 Speaker 1: them down and then when there's nothing left, that's it. 718 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:58,600 Speaker 1: And so but the males, because they're subsisting entirely off 719 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: of the foods that they get from their mama's They 720 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,280 Speaker 1: go much quicker. So we know that as the female 721 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,799 Speaker 1: grows and grows in size and age, her harem gets 722 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,799 Speaker 1: bigger and bigger, but she's also having to replace the 723 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 1: males that have expired inside her. Okay, okay, Now in 724 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,280 Speaker 1: your book you mentioned a couple of other sea creatures. 725 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 1: They are known for their sexual dimorphism and their unique 726 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 1: treatment of males, including one of one of my favorites, 727 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: uh from a new about in the past. Can you 728 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 1: amaze our listeners with at least a brief tale of 729 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:36,560 Speaker 1: the angler fifth? Ah? Sure, the angler fish. So English 730 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:41,320 Speaker 1: fish are wonderful deep sea fish, and there's one group 731 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:46,719 Speaker 1: of anglerfish in particular that have this really unique sexual strategy. 732 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,319 Speaker 1: And the males in this group are born with no 733 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: ability to feed themselves. So they are these tiny little fish, 734 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,640 Speaker 1: often no bigger than you know, half the size of 735 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 1: your your thumbnail, sorry, your your knuckle, you know, sort 736 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,360 Speaker 1: of an inch maybe less. And they're swimming through the 737 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: ocean and they have a fantastic sense of smell, and 738 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,440 Speaker 1: they are on a mission because they can't see themselves, 739 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,799 Speaker 1: and so they have to find the female before they 740 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 1: run out of steam. So they're shooting around in the 741 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,400 Speaker 1: deep sea in the dark, trying to find these females. 742 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,239 Speaker 1: And the females are much much larger than they are, 743 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 1: and the females are hunters. And they're called angler fish 744 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 1: because they have these structures off the tops of their 745 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:37,880 Speaker 1: heads that often have a bioluminescence or glow that attracts 746 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,840 Speaker 1: fish to them. And then they have these giant mouths 747 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 1: and they sort of open their mouths and suck suck 748 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,359 Speaker 1: these little fish in and and so they're they're these 749 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,440 Speaker 1: sort of ambush predators of the deep, and they can 750 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: look pretty spooky, lots of big teeth. And these tiny 751 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 1: little males are swimming around and they're honing in on 752 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 1: the female by her scent. And when they find the female, 753 00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,560 Speaker 1: rather than being uh intimidated by her her kind of 754 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,799 Speaker 1: menacing look, they are wildly attracted and they zoom into 755 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,759 Speaker 1: her and then they actually will will bite onto her 756 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 1: side or her belly, and over this really cool process, 757 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:22,800 Speaker 1: the male will then basically his his jaws will disintegrate, 758 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:27,720 Speaker 1: his um, his foreheads will sort of sink into her body. 759 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:33,360 Speaker 1: Their tissues fused, so that their circulatory systems actually connect 760 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 1: and become one, and he sort of becomes this um 761 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:44,160 Speaker 1: parasitic extension of the female. So his independent life disappears 762 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,840 Speaker 1: and he is now literally physically fused to the female. 763 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:53,239 Speaker 1: Many his internal organs disintegrate, except for his testing. His 764 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,479 Speaker 1: testies continue to grow and develop and they become these 765 00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 1: fantastically large firm factories the female. In this way, the 766 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:06,440 Speaker 1: female now has attached to her basically sperm on demand. 767 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,759 Speaker 1: So in some species we've been able to see that 768 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,719 Speaker 1: when the male attaches, or we think that at the 769 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,279 Speaker 1: point when the male attaches, it triggers some chemical and 770 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,880 Speaker 1: harmonous transformations inside the female, and that often the female 771 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:25,840 Speaker 1: will not mature and start reproducing start producing eggs until 772 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,640 Speaker 1: the male has attached. And then once that happens, it's 773 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 1: sort of like the signal to her that she's got 774 00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,560 Speaker 1: this reliable sperm supply, so it's time for her to 775 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,800 Speaker 1: put the energy into making the eggs. And this works 776 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,160 Speaker 1: out really really well for both of them, even though 777 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,360 Speaker 1: it might seem a little um, a little bit like 778 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,080 Speaker 1: the male gets the short end of the it works 779 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,160 Speaker 1: out great because in the deep sea it's very hard 780 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,200 Speaker 1: to find a mate. Food is very, very scarce, and 781 00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,680 Speaker 1: the ability to actually pump out lots of offspring is 782 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:57,040 Speaker 1: pretty rare. So here you have both male and female 783 00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,440 Speaker 1: connected in a way that ensures that as a female 784 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,880 Speaker 1: releases her eggs, the sperm is right there to fertilize 785 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:05,920 Speaker 1: those eggs. The male nose, his sperm is going to 786 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,239 Speaker 1: be put to good use, and they can kind of, 787 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,640 Speaker 1: you know, swim off into into the darkness doing doing 788 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:16,000 Speaker 1: the deed when when it's needed. That is utterly insane. 789 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,360 Speaker 1: That's that's even crazier maybe than the X one. So 790 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,160 Speaker 1: I have to ask now then, Like I'm jumping a 791 00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 1: head on our notes a little bit here, But so, 792 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,920 Speaker 1: based on that story, what is the weirdest creature you 793 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,319 Speaker 1: covered in your book? Any It sounds to me like 794 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,320 Speaker 1: that that might be weirder than the osod x? Is 795 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:37,600 Speaker 1: there anything even weirder? Gosh, it's oh my goodness, it's 796 00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:43,880 Speaker 1: so the sand tiger's reproductive strategy is really weird and 797 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 1: kind of gruesome. So they're but they're not a weird species, right, 798 00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,560 Speaker 1: so that they're sharks, um, but they have some really 799 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:55,520 Speaker 1: funky stuff going on. Um, there's you know, there's the 800 00:45:55,640 --> 00:46:00,480 Speaker 1: species of Pinafore, which is a small plank in it's 801 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,160 Speaker 1: it's um. They're known as comb jellies and they're hunters 802 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:07,399 Speaker 1: and the plankton, and they're related to jellyfish. But they 803 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,640 Speaker 1: have this really weird thing where it looks like the 804 00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:16,719 Speaker 1: egg and sorry, the the nucleus of their eggs actually 805 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:22,839 Speaker 1: selects the sperm. Is totally crazy. Yeah, I mean that's right. 806 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,239 Speaker 1: It's it's it's a part of a single cell. So 807 00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:28,480 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, the nucleus is an organelle, so 808 00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,799 Speaker 1: it would be like imagining your liver is picking your date. Right. 809 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:37,919 Speaker 1: That's wacky, totally wacky. So um, there are a really 810 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,319 Speaker 1: interesting story and they're one of the few exceptions to 811 00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:44,440 Speaker 1: the rule which is normally, by and large, when an 812 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,680 Speaker 1: egg um, eggs work really hard to ensure that only 813 00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,320 Speaker 1: one sperm makes it in through their sort of powder barrier. 814 00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,800 Speaker 1: If they have multiple sperm, and it's called poly spermy, 815 00:46:56,080 --> 00:47:01,279 Speaker 1: it's normally fatal to an egg. So this tina four 816 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,879 Speaker 1: has this completely opposite approach whereby you know, three four 817 00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,440 Speaker 1: sperm may enter the egg and then the eggs nucleus 818 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:13,440 Speaker 1: like kind of moved around and it literally will go 819 00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,720 Speaker 1: and check out, moved to each of the sperm within 820 00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:20,880 Speaker 1: that cell, looking at them doing something we don't know what, 821 00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,720 Speaker 1: and then sort of picks the one that it actually 822 00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:27,279 Speaker 1: will fuse with. And that's just to me, that blew 823 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,279 Speaker 1: my mind. That's so weird. And you know, this is 824 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,720 Speaker 1: operating not even at the sperm egg interface, but within 825 00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 1: this single cell, So that was pretty cool. Um trying 826 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:45,080 Speaker 1: to think other other weird ones. Um Dinophilus is another worm, 827 00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:48,719 Speaker 1: and they make the sort of parasitic male thing even 828 00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:52,720 Speaker 1: more extreme in that they lay two kinds of eggs, 829 00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:54,719 Speaker 1: a large egg and a small egg. The large ones 830 00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,600 Speaker 1: are females and the small ones are males, and they're 831 00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:01,879 Speaker 1: laid inside this cocoon and and the eggs hatch and 832 00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:06,040 Speaker 1: the males we'll meete with their sisters inside the cocoon, 833 00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,719 Speaker 1: and then they die and that's it. And then the 834 00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,600 Speaker 1: females break free of the cocoon and go off to 835 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,640 Speaker 1: kind of live and lay their eggs which have been 836 00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:18,400 Speaker 1: fertilized by their brothers. So that's a little bit, you know. Yeah, 837 00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,120 Speaker 1: I think the usual. I think that one leads well 838 00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:24,560 Speaker 1: into our question about oceanic orgies. Yeah, as as much 839 00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:28,839 Speaker 1: as as much as human beings can gauge these things. 840 00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:34,520 Speaker 1: Which species hosts the most interesting oceanic orgy most interesting? 841 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,759 Speaker 1: And I'll out of sidebar onto this that might help out, 842 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,680 Speaker 1: which is that I'm curious about. You mentioned cea orgy 843 00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,800 Speaker 1: tourism in the book, and so I'm kind of curious 844 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,520 Speaker 1: about that as well, like like maybe it's more along 845 00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,360 Speaker 1: the lines of like which species orgies are are people 846 00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,560 Speaker 1: going to watch the best to watch? Okay, So that's good, 847 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,640 Speaker 1: so of interest to us. So some of the most 848 00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:03,840 Speaker 1: dynamic and really sort of exciting I think are in 849 00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,880 Speaker 1: species such as um snappers or grouper um. And in 850 00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:12,239 Speaker 1: those species, let's take Nassau grouper for for example. So 851 00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,279 Speaker 1: this is an endangered species first of all. So it 852 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:19,200 Speaker 1: is really rare and really really cool to get to 853 00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:23,359 Speaker 1: see a spawning aggregation because in one location you might 854 00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:27,200 Speaker 1: have three or four thousand fish that you know are 855 00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,400 Speaker 1: the only three or four thousand fish, say, for an 856 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,080 Speaker 1: entire island. And this is some work that the group 857 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,320 Speaker 1: of Moon Project has been working on off of a 858 00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,239 Speaker 1: little Cayman that's the last large remaining spawning aggregation we 859 00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,680 Speaker 1: know of in the Caribbean for this species they used 860 00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,680 Speaker 1: to gather. They used to gather in tens of thousands, 861 00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:48,120 Speaker 1: maybe even hundreds of thousands. We're now down to about 862 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,399 Speaker 1: three or four thousand. About about six seven years ago, 863 00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:55,040 Speaker 1: that population was eight thousand, and fishers over the course 864 00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,399 Speaker 1: of about three or four years hammered it down to half, 865 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:02,960 Speaker 1: which is why it is now being studied and protected. Um. 866 00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:07,080 Speaker 1: But what's really cool to watch is that it's happy. Actually, 867 00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,040 Speaker 1: what was the full moment was only about two days ago, 868 00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:12,200 Speaker 1: I think so literally, as we're talking, these fish are 869 00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,600 Speaker 1: leaving their home territories where they normally stay all year round. 870 00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,680 Speaker 1: They're very aggressive fish, so they don't tend to play 871 00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:23,080 Speaker 1: nicely with their fellow nasaw grouper. And at this one 872 00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:26,759 Speaker 1: window of time, for about a week they leave their 873 00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:30,640 Speaker 1: home territories, they change their coloration. So they'll shift from 874 00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:34,479 Speaker 1: sort of this desert camo into a two toned color 875 00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,240 Speaker 1: where they're sort of dark brown or black on top 876 00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,320 Speaker 1: and white bellied. Some of the females will go all black. 877 00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:42,239 Speaker 1: So I like to think of this as their black 878 00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:47,120 Speaker 1: tie affair. And they they're they're in their good duds 879 00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:51,080 Speaker 1: and and it's probably a cue. It's a signal that like, hey, 880 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:53,640 Speaker 1: I'm friendly now, Like I get it. We're gonna get together, 881 00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,399 Speaker 1: We're gonna have some action. It is okay to hang 882 00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 1: out by me, because otherwise, right you have these really 883 00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,920 Speaker 1: aggressive fish, and if you were to approached fishes is 884 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:03,040 Speaker 1: not in the mood. That's not gonna help your orgy 885 00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,960 Speaker 1: be very productive. So they change their colors and they 886 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:11,319 Speaker 1: create these like caravans, and they flow down to the 887 00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,960 Speaker 1: southern tip of the island and they sort of will 888 00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,040 Speaker 1: leave their territories and hover at the edge of the 889 00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:18,879 Speaker 1: reefs and they'll wait until other NASA groupers to sort 890 00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,560 Speaker 1: of start passing by, and they'll sort of feed into 891 00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,040 Speaker 1: this funnel kind of like tribute charies off the river. 892 00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:26,680 Speaker 1: You know, they're all like going down the stream. And 893 00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,680 Speaker 1: we know this from acoustic data. So many of these 894 00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:33,799 Speaker 1: um individuals have been tagged and the researchers have put 895 00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,440 Speaker 1: listening stations around the island, and so they can see 896 00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:40,120 Speaker 1: through listening where they're going because there's these paves, and 897 00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:41,840 Speaker 1: they can pick up the fish as they go, and 898 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,520 Speaker 1: they get bigger and bigger in their schools and they 899 00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:49,520 Speaker 1: caravan down south and they form these giants swirling balls 900 00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:52,080 Speaker 1: like like I said, three to four thousand fish and 901 00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:56,799 Speaker 1: other species. It's even even higher thousands and thousands, and 902 00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,880 Speaker 1: right around dusk for whatever reason or he's in the 903 00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:05,280 Speaker 1: sea are often coordinated with with sunset. It's very romantic, 904 00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:09,480 Speaker 1: I guess, very um. It helps them kind of truly, 905 00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:12,160 Speaker 1: it helps them coordinate their timing because at the signal 906 00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,080 Speaker 1: they can all sort of tune into and they'll get 907 00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:18,120 Speaker 1: really agitated. They'll start swimming around and bumping up against 908 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:22,319 Speaker 1: one another, and then the females their their bellies will 909 00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,400 Speaker 1: be swollen with eggs. I mean, they literally look pregnant, 910 00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,239 Speaker 1: and the females will all of a sudden start to 911 00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:32,440 Speaker 1: sort of lead these um smaller groups out from the 912 00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:35,840 Speaker 1: big swirling school and they rock it up towards the surface, 913 00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,920 Speaker 1: and when they're within about at the surface, they'll do 914 00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:42,879 Speaker 1: this giant arc and at the peak of their sort 915 00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:47,160 Speaker 1: of sort of climb, they'll release a giant puff of eggs. 916 00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,680 Speaker 1: The males then will follow the female's frantically trying to 917 00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,400 Speaker 1: get as close to her as possible, and they'll release 918 00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:57,440 Speaker 1: their sperm right after she releases the eggs. And so 919 00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,799 Speaker 1: you get these guysers of fish are resting out of 920 00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,400 Speaker 1: this swirling school and these huge puffs of egg and 921 00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,520 Speaker 1: sperm that start to turn the water really cloudy, and 922 00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:12,920 Speaker 1: it's just it's really it's really crazy. And one of 923 00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:16,359 Speaker 1: the researchers I talked to at Dolman named Brad Arisman said, 924 00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:20,920 Speaker 1: it's like organized chaos because you have these fish swirling 925 00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,840 Speaker 1: around below. You're surrounded by all these thousands of fish. 926 00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:27,920 Speaker 1: They're rushing up to do these little spawning births. Meanwhile, 927 00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,200 Speaker 1: depending on where you are and which species you're studying, 928 00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:34,600 Speaker 1: there's a lot of predators in this in this space too, 929 00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:38,200 Speaker 1: because these fish are very preoccupied. They're they're focusing on 930 00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:43,279 Speaker 1: getting their deeds done. Yeah, there's fish take advantage of that. 931 00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:48,360 Speaker 1: There are also lots of silfter feeding animals, whether it's whale, 932 00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,319 Speaker 1: sharks or smaller fish, who feed off the sperm and 933 00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:55,880 Speaker 1: the eggs. Right, this is like abundance of energy and 934 00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,439 Speaker 1: fatty goodness that is just being passed out into the sea. 935 00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,560 Speaker 1: And so not all of those fermin eggs find one 936 00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:06,160 Speaker 1: another and make the next generation. Many of them get 937 00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:09,440 Speaker 1: gobbled up. So you've got all these fish darting in 938 00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:11,280 Speaker 1: whether to hit the fish or to hit the eggs 939 00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:15,640 Speaker 1: and sperm, and then you've got the spawners themselves going off. Oftentimes, 940 00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,719 Speaker 1: these are multiple species aggregations, so you'll have one species 941 00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,680 Speaker 1: kind of concentrated in a small area and another species 942 00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:25,600 Speaker 1: somewhere else, and they might have slightly different timing or 943 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:29,160 Speaker 1: slightly different locations, but they're all kind of erupting somewhat 944 00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:33,879 Speaker 1: near each other. So it's um yeah, as a bad sense. 945 00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:36,080 Speaker 1: He's like, it's like organized chaos and things are just 946 00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,400 Speaker 1: flying by your mask and your face and your fins 947 00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:41,600 Speaker 1: and you know, trying trying to to watch all of 948 00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:45,120 Speaker 1: it is it's really He's like, it's wonderful to watch, 949 00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,800 Speaker 1: it's really hard to study. The next time our listeners 950 00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,640 Speaker 1: are in the Cayman Islands, I guess then they should, uh, 951 00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:54,120 Speaker 1: they should go rent a body suit and and I'm 952 00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:55,960 Speaker 1: assuming you can get like a guide or something like 953 00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,880 Speaker 1: that for this. Yes, So this is something that is 954 00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:02,680 Speaker 1: just now starting to develop, and in some cases the 955 00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:07,280 Speaker 1: location is one that's really accessible and countries are starting 956 00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:10,640 Speaker 1: to encourage fishers um in particular, though other you know, 957 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,960 Speaker 1: eco tourism operators are jumping on board too, to say, 958 00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,040 Speaker 1: you know, rather than catching these fish and disrupting the 959 00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:22,240 Speaker 1: spawning behavior and the process. Let's protect them while they're spawning. 960 00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,880 Speaker 1: Let's close down fishing, and instead you can earn an 961 00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:27,680 Speaker 1: income by taking people out to watch. And this has 962 00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:30,640 Speaker 1: started started to gain some traction, and the idea there 963 00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:34,040 Speaker 1: is that this is again the only time of year 964 00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,719 Speaker 1: that these fish get together to breed. This is it. 965 00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,719 Speaker 1: And if we go in fish while they're trying to reproduce, 966 00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,360 Speaker 1: you know it. There's lots of disruption that can happen. 967 00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:48,840 Speaker 1: There's subtle signaling going on to coordinate these individual bursts. 968 00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,359 Speaker 1: These animals may have a bit of social hierarchy, We're 969 00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,320 Speaker 1: still not sure. So any kind of fishing or interruption 970 00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:58,359 Speaker 1: where certain individuals are being pulled out of the population, 971 00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:02,680 Speaker 1: it just disrupts that coordination. The other problem is that 972 00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:07,520 Speaker 1: when you're surrounded by thousands and thousands of thousands of fish, 973 00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:11,800 Speaker 1: it is really hard to really see how much damage 974 00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,959 Speaker 1: you're doing. So again, like I said, this population off 975 00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,719 Speaker 1: of Little came In had about eight thousand fish and 976 00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:20,560 Speaker 1: within three years it was down to four thousand. But 977 00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:23,160 Speaker 1: you know, if you're a fisher and you're looking down 978 00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:25,200 Speaker 1: there and you're seeing all these fish it seems like 979 00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:29,120 Speaker 1: there's plenty. It seems like there's tons, and every year 980 00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:33,400 Speaker 1: they keep grouping up. So the ability for us to 981 00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:36,480 Speaker 1: manage that well is really really difficult, and we have 982 00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:40,759 Speaker 1: a absolutely dismal record. We have just pretty much all 983 00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:44,319 Speaker 1: known spawning aggregations have been hammered really hard. Many have 984 00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:47,120 Speaker 1: completely have been completely fished out, where the fish no 985 00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:50,560 Speaker 1: longer show up. There's just none left. And it's just 986 00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,640 Speaker 1: you know, um, I like to say, you know, don't 987 00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:55,799 Speaker 1: come a knock and when the beds are rocking, that's 988 00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:59,919 Speaker 1: crazy cold, and and orgies, orgies like this or that's 989 00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,840 Speaker 1: it right, Like, let's just like let them spawn and 990 00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:04,520 Speaker 1: then we'll figure out management for the rest of the 991 00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:07,200 Speaker 1: year because I know that that next generation is coming. 992 00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,880 Speaker 1: But they think that some tourism and watching and observing 993 00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:13,760 Speaker 1: some of these um could could work in some places 994 00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:18,040 Speaker 1: to help provide fishers with alternative income, which is great 995 00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,360 Speaker 1: because you know, they do. Many of these fishers have 996 00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:25,640 Speaker 1: depended on spawning aggregations for a huge, huge portion of 997 00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,800 Speaker 1: their income because it's so lucrative. Uh So it's hard. 998 00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:30,760 Speaker 1: It's hard to say we're going to shut them down, 999 00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:33,480 Speaker 1: but it really is what's what's needed. Um So, the 1000 00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:38,160 Speaker 1: tourism is is one one potential there. Um So those 1001 00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:39,960 Speaker 1: are the fish I think people would love that. The 1002 00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,280 Speaker 1: other one is coral spawning. Coral spawning is just awesome 1003 00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:46,320 Speaker 1: and it's easy to witness as well, and it's beautiful. 1004 00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:50,480 Speaker 1: It's like being in a snowstorm. Um So we can 1005 00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:52,880 Speaker 1: talk about that if if you wish, but um that 1006 00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,600 Speaker 1: would be my that would be my second vote. I 1007 00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:59,680 Speaker 1: guess well, I wish we had had more time to 1008 00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:03,840 Speaker 1: just us that because I actually just visited Jamaica and 1009 00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,200 Speaker 1: got to do some snorkeling and so I'm super interested 1010 00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:07,640 Speaker 1: in coral now. So maybe we'll have to get back 1011 00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,840 Speaker 1: in touch with you about that. But for one last 1012 00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:13,920 Speaker 1: question here on this episode, I just wanted to to ask, 1013 00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:15,680 Speaker 1: you've heard you talk about this in some other shows, 1014 00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:18,280 Speaker 1: just where the idea for sex in the sea came 1015 00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:20,280 Speaker 1: from and what you really set out to accomplish with 1016 00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:28,160 Speaker 1: this book. Sure, so, successful sex is the heart of sustainability. 1017 00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,760 Speaker 1: When we think about all of the amazing abundance and 1018 00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:35,600 Speaker 1: diversity that exists in the ocean, it all comes from sex. 1019 00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:40,080 Speaker 1: We have to have these animals successfully reproducing in order 1020 00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:45,440 Speaker 1: to have the amazing prolific oyster reefs and coral reefs 1021 00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:48,600 Speaker 1: and giant schools of beat fish that feed the giant 1022 00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:51,640 Speaker 1: schools of tuna that then feed us. So it really 1023 00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:55,320 Speaker 1: all does come down to these animals being able to 1024 00:58:55,400 --> 00:59:00,200 Speaker 1: successfully date inmate. But the idea sort of came about 1025 00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:03,320 Speaker 1: UM when I was in graduate school and I was 1026 00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:06,680 Speaker 1: seeing some of the declines on coral reefs in particular, 1027 00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:10,000 Speaker 1: and I knew that ocean issues weren't um you know, 1028 00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:12,240 Speaker 1: they're not top of mind from most of the public. 1029 00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,600 Speaker 1: There's a lot of other important stuff where ocean issues 1030 00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:18,080 Speaker 1: are competing with And so I was looking for a 1031 00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:22,800 Speaker 1: way that would engage folks and the interesting and fun, 1032 00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:25,560 Speaker 1: but also be able to tell the message that you know, 1033 00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:27,400 Speaker 1: we're having an impact in a way that we often 1034 00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:31,680 Speaker 1: don't realize. And I was at a cocktail party. I 1035 00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:34,160 Speaker 1: was talking with a bunch of friends over some drinks, 1036 00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:37,439 Speaker 1: and we were bemoaning sort of the differences and lack 1037 00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:42,680 Speaker 1: of understanding between guys and girls basically, and a friend 1038 00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:44,640 Speaker 1: of mine sort of said, you know, I just wish 1039 00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:46,840 Speaker 1: for one day I could be in the body of 1040 00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:48,840 Speaker 1: a guy and know what that was like like know 1041 00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,640 Speaker 1: what they're thinking, you know, what's going on, and I, 1042 00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,680 Speaker 1: being a total nerdy biologist off hand, just like I know, 1043 00:59:55,920 --> 01:00:00,520 Speaker 1: if only we could be like parrot fish. And you know, 1044 01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:02,080 Speaker 1: I got I was met with sort of this like 1045 01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:05,360 Speaker 1: you know stairs, and it got very quiet, very quickly, 1046 01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:10,040 Speaker 1: and I said, oh, well, you know, parashige can change sex. 1047 01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:12,120 Speaker 1: They start this female and they turn in the mail, 1048 01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:15,280 Speaker 1: so like they know, they know what it's like. And 1049 01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:19,120 Speaker 1: it was still quiet, you know, they were they were 1050 01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:21,160 Speaker 1: sort of like, I don't know where you're doing with 1051 01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:23,480 Speaker 1: this Morrow. And so I then you know, went on 1052 01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:25,720 Speaker 1: to explain that shrim through this oyster and through this 1053 01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:28,480 Speaker 1: you know, it's really common strategy. And then I sort 1054 01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:32,160 Speaker 1: of lent into the fact that you imagine how much 1055 01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:34,360 Speaker 1: more complex that makes it for us to try to 1056 01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:37,600 Speaker 1: manage these animals, because now it's you're fishing all the 1057 01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:40,000 Speaker 1: biggest fish, which we tend to like to do, and 1058 01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:43,600 Speaker 1: you're fishing a sex changing population. You're not only taking 1059 01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:47,400 Speaker 1: out large numbers, but you're also totally skewing the sex 1060 01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:50,520 Speaker 1: ratio right, which makes it really hard for a female 1061 01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:52,360 Speaker 1: to find a date when all the males have just 1062 01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,200 Speaker 1: been scooped up so I was able to have this 1063 01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:59,120 Speaker 1: conversation and people were listening, and they were engaged, and 1064 01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:02,440 Speaker 1: they were asking me quite shans. And afterwards I went 1065 01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:04,720 Speaker 1: to go get another drink at a different part of 1066 01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:06,840 Speaker 1: the house and I heard someone I had been talking to. 1067 01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:09,640 Speaker 1: This is probably about half an hour later, and someone 1068 01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:12,480 Speaker 1: I had been talking to was relaying that story to 1069 01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:14,840 Speaker 1: somebody else. They were like, did you know fish change sex? 1070 01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:18,760 Speaker 1: And they're crazy? And I literally it was like at 1071 01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:21,840 Speaker 1: that moment that that's it. That's how we can talk 1072 01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:25,080 Speaker 1: about it sex. Even if people don't admitte, they're curious 1073 01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:29,040 Speaker 1: about it. And there's so many amazing, wonderful strategies in 1074 01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:31,640 Speaker 1: the ocean that we're just starting to learn about, and 1075 01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:35,640 Speaker 1: it's so critical to sustainability. That's the perfect, perfect way 1076 01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:40,520 Speaker 1: to tell these stories and hopefully get more people to 1077 01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:43,720 Speaker 1: be enthralled and inspired by the ocean as as I am, 1078 01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:46,600 Speaker 1: and I also get get a few I mean, it's 1079 01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:50,000 Speaker 1: really the goal is to recruit wonderful minds to help 1080 01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:52,120 Speaker 1: us solve these problems. And I think that that's going 1081 01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:55,080 Speaker 1: to come from more than just the scientists. We need 1082 01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:58,480 Speaker 1: smart business folks and policy folks and artists and you know, 1083 01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:01,800 Speaker 1: everybody out there um to help us thinks through the 1084 01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:04,920 Speaker 1: ways that we can better interact and sustainably manage our 1085 01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:08,960 Speaker 1: sees and hopefully sex and the se'll help, yeah, help 1086 01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:10,640 Speaker 1: get into the lapse of some people who might not 1087 01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:15,800 Speaker 1: otherwise think about it. So there you have it, the 1088 01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:19,800 Speaker 1: osodox The Sex Life of an Ocean bone Worm. And 1089 01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:23,520 Speaker 1: thanks once again to Dr mar j Hert, author of 1090 01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:25,439 Speaker 1: Sex in the Sea, for chatting with us a little 1091 01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:28,160 Speaker 1: bit about her book. So if you want to get 1092 01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:30,720 Speaker 1: in touch with us, maybe you've seen the osodax up 1093 01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:33,760 Speaker 1: close and personal. Maybe you've got some fan art that 1094 01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:35,880 Speaker 1: you want to share with us, maybe some some Osodax 1095 01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:38,840 Speaker 1: fan fiction. You can always reach out to us on 1096 01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:43,160 Speaker 1: our social accounts, Facebook, Twitter, and tumbler. Uh. Sometimes, you know, 1097 01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:45,200 Speaker 1: I like to post like an image of just like 1098 01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:47,240 Speaker 1: what we're working on, like a day or two before 1099 01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:50,920 Speaker 1: we record these episodes. Yesterday I I put a picture 1100 01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:53,720 Speaker 1: of an Osodax up and somebody got somebody did somebody got? 1101 01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,160 Speaker 1: When I checked in on it, nobody hit guess, Yeah, 1102 01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:58,760 Speaker 1: it was just this morning that I saw somebody nailed it, 1103 01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:01,000 Speaker 1: like they knew exact clear that it was an Osadax. 1104 01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:03,080 Speaker 1: It wasn't just like, oh that's a marine worm. They've 1105 01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:06,720 Speaker 1: had it all right. So hey Osadax fans out there, Uh, 1106 01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:09,680 Speaker 1: let us know what you think and hit us up 1107 01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:12,160 Speaker 1: on Facebook, Twitter, and tumbler at blow the Mind And 1108 01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:14,560 Speaker 1: where can they reach us the old fashioned way? Oh 1109 01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:17,120 Speaker 1: you can reach this via email. That is blow the 1110 01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:29,440 Speaker 1: Mind at how stuff Works dot com. Well more on 1111 01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:32,000 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff 1112 01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:41,520 Speaker 1: Works dot com? Little